Related
Anyone have any good/bad results taking photos in low-light (regular in-door to darker evening environments) or with pets/children and other quick moving subjects?
Debating between the N3 and the LG G2 and overall they are about equal to me, camera is the only area I'm still debating on.
G2 has been reported to have some funky auto focus and watery audio during video, not so hot low-light photos, and terrible for moving subjects (which I like to take photos of).
N3 seems to also to suffer in the low-light department not unlike most phones, but maybe it could be improved down the line with an update as previous Samsung devices had a Night Mode which is missing and doesn't seem to be "replaced" by the new camera features.
I haven't owned any of the Galaxy devices and have only messed around with ones friends/family have. I'm assuming with things like Drama mode, that it should do decently with pets/children running around.
So overall, just looking for any user samples or reviews that may have hit on this area. So far most of the reviews I've seen point at the GS4 for comparison, but if the N3 is using updated software and missing Night Mode, it makes it sort of hard to compare.
Albert Poon said:
May I ask you guys with M9 to take pics using manual mode? A tripod, phone holder, low ISO, long explosure to take some night views?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This was missing in the flickr album. Long exposure 1/4, 1/2 or 1s shots. And please use flickr so we can see exifs easily. board attachments and imgur strip exifs out. I notice the phonearena samples have no exifs in them at all.
Though i have to say i like this one. Just enough silhouette to set the mood.
ISO 80 and 1/40 WHAT!!! for late afternoon Seattle in winter. I can't tell if its HDR or not.
---------- Post added at 09:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:43 PM ----------
xxquicksh0txx said:
https://plus.google.com/10388377056...6126393456474303042&oid=103883770561517758752 Link to the beetle picture on his Google+ with a resolution of 1108 x 625. Definitely cropped/compressed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Taken with VSCO cam, ISO 50, 1/268. So ample light.
Also used flash. Sharpness is set to soft.
A nice photo.
---------- Post added at 09:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:17 PM ----------
vegetaleb said:
Here a comparison of crop between M9 and Note 4 in not very low light conditions taken by the Tweakers review, you can clearly see the superiority of the Note 4 in the details like the logos of Goodyear and the wheel:
I know it's not final software but this M9 camera is giving the same results the SE C905 could give 6 years ago
M9
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
Note 4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Note 4 is ISO 400, 1/10
M9 is ISO 640, 1/14
About half a f-stop difference.
What if the M9 tried to get that with ISO 300 ie ISO 200 +0.3 at 1/7 ? or go slower still ISO100+0.3 at 1/3 ? can't do these tricks with the note, slowest it will get is 1/8 and then its auto night mode kicks in which did not happen in this picture. S5 & note 4 have improved their low light capability over their predecessors in auto but i bet you can come close to matching it if not exceeding it with manual on m9.
Light in this shot is quite low btw.
th3 said:
This obsession is what makes every product better in every field, than its predecessor.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That pair is not as important as you think it is and that applies for all with good light.
Where this 'trounces' occurs is in low light. I've already said what needs to be done.
Without this obsession, there can be no better or worse product, and you'll still be saying "good enough" to the HTC Desire camera
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
with macros yeah i would because there is no difference there. I've seen three year old devices do excellent macros. Hint: macros are not a good demonstration of what the latest camera can do.
The only real innovation we've had in sensors is BSI over the last two years. More sensitive in low light. You couldn't do that with 2013 devices, m7 was the sole exception. The rest is processing, how much of it or lack thereof.
On a more general level the trick with these devices is to know when to compromise and when to be maximalist. There is no perfect device so what you end up with is what you can tolerate over what you cannot do without. Every device has this trade off. Unfortunately you are alone with making this decision. Unless you are lucky to find others whose requirements match yours closely. Now do you see why i said minor. its minor in a larger context.
What you're saying... 'Moving the goalpost' it's called. Common trick.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no tricks. calling it straight.
i don't trust auto.That on some devices its always flawless is a myth. auto goes wrong even on dslrs. what will you do then ? blame the device or your own ignorance. better to understand why and what went wrong and then fix it. and you can.
What i'm sensing here is an unwillingness to do so. That is something else.
Your opinion is not supported by the data we all have.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That does not make what i said wrong. Its up to people here to provide that data. particularly low light with manual.
Its right because i've seen the same done with numerous devices already. This is how cameras work. They need light.
Give them that and you get a good shot. simple.
---------- Post added at 10:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:14 AM ----------
tryfound said:
No, your whole post is invalid. I'm testing AUTO, feel free to grace us all with your superior photography skills when you get your M9.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
actually i should have said your tests were pointless and it was a waste of my time to go through them. test the note 4 in low light with manual in m9 that's what you should have done.
I wanted to see manual being used in the low light. You've got no excuses when the camera provides it. If you can't do that then its your problem not the m9.
bad auto does not mean bad camera. bad auto will be fixed. The Z1 took 3 months to get it right. What did people do, the lamers whined whereas the rest got busy with manual and got good shots from day 1.
make up your mind or sell.
---------- Post added at 10:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:19 AM ----------
vegetaleb said:
At last a camera comparison between M9 and Note4 http://www.phonearena.com/reviews/HTC-One-M9-vs-Samsung-Galaxy-Note-4_id3963/page/3
In daylight the Note 4 is significantly better, the M9 will smudge
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Show me smudge in daylight, i want to see how much. actually link the shots.
In low light even resized to 640x480 the M9 is very blurry and smudgy, the Note 4 is millions years ahead.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All the low light shots have the m9 using high iso in guess what auto. The reviewer did not even try manual and blurred one of the shots because he could not hold a 1/7.
Conclusion: unless you want to use your photos only from daylight situations and only resized to Facebook and other social medias (of course no crop at all) . you should consider the Note 4 as a very good choice of camera phone in every situations.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you realise that to display on a HD device you only need 1MP or on a full HD it only takes 2MP. Anything more than that gets resampled.
You don't let facebook or anybody else resize it you do it yourself then upload wherever.
tryfound said:
You're so full of yourself. How dare I waste your precious time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Look, you're not helping me, i'm helping you to help yourself as well as others in this thread.
Make up my mind or sell? Sell what? Some people here asked to see comparisons with the Note 4 and I gave them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And i'm pointing out why there were inadequate. They do not add anything above what reviews are saying.
I did not bother going through the imgur stuff since there are no exifs to see there. Assessing image quality let alone commenting without exifs is pointless.
To suggest that I should be tweaking manual settings on an M9 to achieve the quality of the Note 4's auto shots is beyond comprehension.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
auto shots are average x average, is this what people base their opinions on ?
manual means you take a test auto shot then see whether you can improve it in manual. That is how you will exceed what the reviews have shown and we get to see the best this camera can do. This is what any owner that wants to improve and exploit manual is going to do over time.
Why someone would not want to improve his shots is beyond my comprehension.
tryfound said:
Some more shots with the M9, large res then small res second. Had to use imgur because of filesize so these are compressed images, don't bother zooming for details, some of the higher res images I took have been reduced to a size smaller than the 'small' res images due to their original filesize, I guess that's imgur's way of compressing.
http://imgur.com/PeWfBMx
http://imgur.com/CNrpmW7
http://imgur.com/fOi00v3
http://imgur.com/dMQ1yXV
http://imgur.com/JmvdebB
http://imgur.com/MnF3Fue
http://imgur.com/2AtDjvr (HDR)
http://imgur.com/mP0g0aP (HDR)
http://imgur.com/NApwPvt
http://imgur.com/U8yHyuV
http://imgur.com/i04j8vr
http://imgur.com/1FPUAw7
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just looked at images and they look really good. I am surprised M9 managed to capture that pristine detail I never seen before. White balance too looks so great not like previously green tint that was all over images.
One thing I am not able to find is camera data in adobe bridge and also colour space is untagged. That usually happens when photo being stripped of exif data. Have you by any chance gave some editing to them?
Thanks
I agree with a pack that camera should perform to the best on auto. If it doesn't , software has to be optimised if it's not then it's engineers faults Or hardware limitations.
it applies to the majority of the smartphone photographers . People want point and shoot.Even being enthusiast photographer and love digging my camera and phone camera I hate when auto underperforms when I simply want to take my phone out of the pocket and shoot.Every enthusiast can tweak but that defeats AUTO purpose .
There are average performers good and very good. Unfortunately M9 is not very good.Good ? Maybe....if light is favourable...at the moment it is consistently weak in certain situations. The usual wash out reminded me of the spill that when lets say camera lens gets in the studio shot or outside and for this purpose hood is used . This is one of the speculations I come up with. Somehow HTC phones consistently suffer from that. Could be they have same team of engineers that can't find the key to successful Software optimization or not so decent hardware just guessing here. Being visualphile that particular trade off with HTC devices just kills me.
nebulaoperator said:
I agree with a pack that camera should perform to the best on auto. If it doesn't , software has to be optimised if it's not then it's engineers faults Or hardware limitations.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
.
I've seen this issue with other devices. xperias camera software was never quite ready at launch. Lots of bashing. Took them a few months to get it right. Mostly auto. Then shots come out with lower ISO which you could have got yourself if you tried. Image quality is better now. why ? iso is lower. So if auto is taking high iso then low iso will get you a better shot.
So when people say camera is not working its auto. No other issues i can see so far. They will fix it but in the mean time if manual settings are tweaked you will get the results you want today. Most do not know how to do that or worse do not want to.
it applies to the majority of the smartphone photographers . People want point and shoot.Even being enthusiast photographer and love digging my camera and phone camera I hate when auto underperforms when I simply want to take my phone out of the pocket and shoot.Every enthusiast can tweak but that defeats AUTO purpose .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
General advice i give to people who cant take photos is go with the koreans or apple. if you want more then look at others.
First time i came across an iphone camera after seeing the usual controls in nokias and android was wtf do i do with this. Some shots can't be got with auto. when there is no access to manual then you are stuck. take it or leave it. its only a phone camera, you're not supposed to do anything more. Who said so ?
Many people take shots and figuring out who is at fault is a tricky business. Of course the tendency is to blame the device but the person taking the shot is the most responsible, always.
There are average performers good and very good. Unfortunately M9 is not very good.Good ? Maybe....if light is favourable...at the moment it is consistently weak in certain situations.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Low light with auto. From what i've seen consistently boosts auto up. There are even night modes which to date i've not seen anybody even try. HELLO!
So auto is not picking these modes for some reason. Its a bug. But if you set it yourself then what is the result. Much better i bet.
The usual wash out reminded me of the spill that when lets say camera lens gets in the studio shot or outside and for this purpose hood is used .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A lens hood decreases lens flare and saturates colours. Take a shot in shade of a sunny area. If you're getting lens flare then its clearly user error. Not just with this device but with any. I would just use my hand out of camera to block some of the light or avoid unwanted reflections. Here is a good example
https://www.flickr.com/photos/palmsolo/sets/72157651089646798/with/16274675233/
cloudy day, massive light box in the sky. Colours are all rich. Which is best. i cannot tell
interestingly enough the low end devices suffer less from this problem because the sensors are not as sensitive. They can take good shots in awful bright light which would be washed out with more capable sensors. Not much use indoors though.
This is one of the speculations I come up with. Somehow HTC phones consistently suffer from that. Could be they have same team of engineers that can't find the key to successful Software optimization or not so decent hardware just guessing here. Being visualphile that particular trade off with HTC devices just kills me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The ones typically from what i've seen blow out the sky. They are a little more quirky in getting those blue skies. Overexposed. HDR is one way to do it but it can be tricked also. i remember this work around from the m8 forum where this guy pointed close to the sun to lock exposure and then recomposed back on the scene. The picture was remarkably better. You don't have to do this all the time only in certain situations.
Review on bunch of cameras.
Gizmodo: The Best Smartphone Camera: Samsung Galaxy S6 Edition. http://google.com/newsstand/s/CBIw4ZO08yA
tryfound said:
Some more shots with the M9, large res then small res second. Had to use imgur because of filesize so these are compressed images, don't bother zooming for details, some of the higher res images I took have been reduced to a size smaller than the 'small' res images due to their original filesize, I guess that's imgur's way of compressing.
http://imgur.com/PeWfBMx
http://imgur.com/CNrpmW7
http://imgur.com/fOi00v3
http://imgur.com/dMQ1yXV
http://imgur.com/JmvdebB
http://imgur.com/MnF3Fue
http://imgur.com/2AtDjvr (HDR)
http://imgur.com/mP0g0aP (HDR)
http://imgur.com/NApwPvt
http://imgur.com/U8yHyuV
http://imgur.com/i04j8vr
http://imgur.com/1FPUAw7
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
jauhien said:
Some yesterday snaps here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/we88grvt72bldy8/4PDA_REQUEST.zip?dl=0
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One Twelve said:
.
Disclaimer: I should learn how to use quotes.
I've seen this issue with other devices. xperias camera software was never quite ready at launch. Lots of bashing. Took them a few months to get it right. Mostly auto. Then shots come out with lower ISO which you could have got yourself if you tried. Image quality is better now. why ? iso is lower. So if auto is taking high iso then low iso will get you a better shot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Whether it's ISO OIS or else it does not stop camera to perform well. Take A look at Iphone 6 it works wonders. Low light is not on the par with M7 m8. The thing you have to understand , strongly camera orientated phone should not come with a sticker on the box " want a better image use manual"
[/QUOTE]So when people say camera is not working its auto. No other issues i can see so far. They will fix it but in the mean time if manual settings are tweaked you will get the results you want today. Most do not know how to do that or worse do not want to.[/QUOTE]
A lot people say because AUTO doesn't work. Why would I have buy "they will fix it" if I pay 500-600 GBP for a phone. It doesn't work like that. And in most cases software improved performance but only to a point .I own M7 and know it's weaknesses.And I don't want to use manual though I know my phone from inside to outside.
[/QUOTE]General advice i give to people who cant take photos is go with the koreans or apple. if you want more then look at others.
First time i came across an iphone camera after seeing the usual controls in nokias and android was wtf do i do with this. Some shots can't be got with auto. when there is no access to manual then you are stuck. take it or leave it. its only a phone camera, you're not supposed to do anything more. Who said so ?
Many people take shots and figuring out who is at fault is a tricky business. Of course the tendency is to blame the device but the person taking the shot is the most responsible, always.[/QUOTE]
I saw ifone users don't even know AE/AF lock exist till I showed. Iphone 6 has the simplest UI that can be invented I also call it Dummy proof. I think you can get an app to have access to tweaks option otherwise it's a bit limited to my taste. I can blame phone camera without long hesitation for two reasons: if hardware sucks or software or both. Then no amount of tweaks can help you. M7 is notorious for washouts, poor dynamic range. I found HDR was never a strong suite of M7 neither M8 or M9. However if you can tweak settings you might get away bringing images to photoshop. That's what I do. On the other hand only minority people are enthusiast like we are and the majority should be at least faulted for what smartphone manufacturer didn't do in the first place. If iphone , nokia, samsung(from 2014) proved there is a lot more that can be done with camera.
[/QUOTE]Low light with auto. From what i've seen consistently boosts auto up. There are even night modes which to date i've not seen anybody even try. HELLO!
So auto is not picking these modes for some reason. Its a bug. But if you set it yourself then what is the result. Much better i bet.[/QUOTE]
Low light was nevera weak spot for HTC One line(until now M9) it was cloudy weather condition with little contrast, also situation when I have half frame window in and the other half room. It would go into extremes overexpose the light in the window or underexposedarks barely visible. Sensor and software is not coping with dynamic range. I kind of like night mode but found it to slow in some situation due to the shutter speed so I just used normal mode it did great though. I wish I could try RAW mode but unfortunately I am selling my phone today ( Not sure if RAW will be brought to lollipop for M7)
[/QUOTE]A lens hood decreases lens flare and saturates colours. Take a shot in shade of a sunny area. If you're getting lens flare then its clearly user error. Not just with this device but with any. I would just use my hand out of camera to block some of the light or avoid unwanted reflections. Here is a good example
https://www.flickr.com/photos/palmsolo/sets/72157651089646798/with/16274675233/
cloudy day, massive light box in the sky. Colours are all rich. Which is best. i cannot tell
interestingly enough the low end devices suffer less from this problem because the sensors are not as sensitive. They can take good shots in awful bright light which would be washed out with more capable sensors. Not much use indoors though.[/QUOTE]
I worked with photographer who used hood for the headshots and it was game changer.
For instance Iphone6 is least prone to that error but most Android camera phones I came across are. I was surprised by Note 4 results and S6 I would never think they can do so well. So it must be bug or hardware or both as I mentioned earlier. Nice photos from M9 but WB is somehow a bit off sometimes on the blue side( couple of weeks before it was to yellow green Funny enough you are the first I came across that used hand to block the light I do that too. I guess we both come from the same/similar trade.
[/QUOTE]
The ones typically from what i've seen blow out the sky. They are a little more quirky in getting those blue skies. Overexposed. HDR is one way to do it but it can be tricked also. i remember this work around from the m8 forum where this guy pointed close to the sun to lock exposure and then recomposed back on the scene. The picture was remarkably better. You don't have to do this all the time only in certain situations.[/QUOTE]
AE/AF is a very handy tool. I am glad smartphones have this simple yet very effective feature.
Quadrider10 said:
Review on bunch of cameras.
Gizmodo: The Best Smartphone Camera: Samsung Galaxy S6 Edition. http://google.com/newsstand/s/CBIw4ZO08yA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't think the M9 looked bad. Need to use a computer instead of my note 4
Sent from a mobile gadget...
---------- Post added at 05:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:52 PM ----------
And guys, chill out. I don't think M9 will have the best camera, but it will hopefully be enough. What I'm worried about is the speed of the camera and SOT. I will probably buy it anyway because I love HTCs mix.
Sent from a mobile gadget...
You're not helping anyone mate. Pig with lipstick is still a pig. No matter how much spin you are putting on it.
Everything you are saying is your subjective opinion not backed by any reviewer or already debunked. No data at all.
I don't see any fruit in continuing this back and forth "I think" or "you can do this in software" discussion with you. I, and 99% of users, only care about how the product performs out of the box. A few may go further, with manual. That's it.
Lame apologist excuses don't hide that. If you can do x with M9, you can also do better with S6/iP6/N4 etc starting from a better base.
I'll have the M9 31st March. Then, we'll see.
One Twelve said:
Look, you're not helping me, i'm helping you to help yourself as well as others in this thread.
And i'm pointing out why there were inadequate. They do not add anything above what reviews are saying.
I did not bother going through the imgur stuff since there are no exifs to see there. Assessing image quality let alone commenting without exifs is pointless.
auto shots are average x average, is this what people base their opinions on ?
manual means you take a test auto shot then see whether you can improve it in manual. That is how you will exceed what the reviews have shown and we get to see the best this camera can do. This is what any owner that wants to improve and exploit manual is going to do over time.
Why someone would not want to improve his shots is beyond my comprehension.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One Twelve said:
That pair is not as important as you think it is and that applies for all with good light.
Where this 'trounces' occurs is in low light. I've already said what needs to be done.
with macros yeah i would because there is no difference there. I've seen three year old devices do excellent macros. Hint: macros are not a good demonstration of what the latest camera can do.
The only real innovation we've had in sensors is BSI over the last two years. More sensitive in low light. You couldn't do that with 2013 devices, m7 was the sole exception. The rest is processing, how much of it or lack thereof.
On a more general level the trick with these devices is to know when to compromise and when to be maximalist. There is no perfect device so what you end up with is what you can tolerate over what you cannot do without. Every device has this trade off. Unfortunately you are alone with making this decision. Unless you are lucky to find others whose requirements match yours closely. Now do you see why i said minor. its minor in a larger context.
no tricks. calling it straight.
i don't trust auto.That on some devices its always flawless is a myth. auto goes wrong even on dslrs. what will you do then ? blame the device or your own ignorance. better to understand why and what went wrong and then fix it. and you can.
What i'm sensing here is an unwillingness to do so. That is something else.
That does not make what i said wrong. Its up to people here to provide that data. particularly low light with manual.
Its right because i've seen the same done with numerous devices already. This is how cameras work. They need light.
Give them that and you get a good shot. simple.
---------- Post added at 10:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:14 AM ----------
actually i should have said your tests were pointless and it was a waste of my time to go through them. test the note 4 in low light with manual in m9 that's what you should have done.
I wanted to see manual being used in the low light. You've got no excuses when the camera provides it. If you can't do that then its your problem not the m9.
bad auto does not mean bad camera. bad auto will be fixed. The Z1 took 3 months to get it right. What did people do, the lamers whined whereas the rest got busy with manual and got good shots from day 1.
make up your mind or sell.
---------- Post added at 10:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:19 AM ----------
Show me smudge in daylight, i want to see how much. actually link the shots.
All the low light shots have the m9 using high iso in guess what auto. The reviewer did not even try manual and blurred one of the shots because he could not hold a 1/7.
Do you realise that to display on a HD device you only need 1MP or on a full HD it only takes 2MP. Anything more than that gets resampled.
You don't let facebook or anybody else resize it you do it yourself then upload wherever.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent using Tapatalk
th3 said:
You're not helping anyone mate. Pig with lipstick is still a pig. No matter how much spin you are putting on it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Went right to the end for the punchline
I'll have the M9 31st March. Then, we'll see.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hah so despite the s6 camera 'trouncing' the m9, you actually went in for what ? .....<drum roll>....the M9 <applause>
Confirms what i said earlier, the image quality differences weren't enough to deter you.
Lame apologist excuses don't hide that. If you can do x with M9, you can also do better with S6/iP6/N4 etc starting from a better base.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah so why didn't you get one of them then ? riiiiightt. Why the narrow obsessions with image quality somehow don't pan out in the end. Bigger forces at play.
With ip6+ and 3rd party camera with manual controls. you can improve over stock auto. With the same on the iP6 or even iP5x and a steady hand you can come close if not match the plus.
S6 & N4 or even the G3 don't offer shutter speed control so there is no way to tell how effective their OIS is, its just stated and i believe its there but no way to tell like say with the iP6+ that can do a 1/4 handheld. Night mode on the recent samsungs is good. Much improved over earlier versions. They boosting sensor gain and fiddling around. To get a similar shot would require an exposure two times longer with other devices including the m9. So you will have to work at it.
No idea when raw support will come for the above. But i bet you get it on the m9 before them. Your details issues will disappear at that point but you have to process each image yourself.
Everything you are saying is your subjective opinion not backed by any reviewer or already debunked. No data at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So you do not understand that delaying shutter and lowering iso will improve image quality in low light ? This applies only with stationary subjects btw, forget doing it with people or anything that won't sit still.
Sop with any camera that allows manual control, i can show you manual lumia 930 vs note 4 where it gets pretty close and auto did not. When more people post later you'll see what i mean.
I'm most interested in the low light shots and rarely bother with daylight comparisons because they are pretty similar. In fact my problem with smartphone cameras is too much detail strange as that may sound. because it makes isolating subjects harder. Everything is so damn clear. Because its the equivalent of an f11 lens in 35mm speak. Depth of field is deeper. Great for macros but not others.
I don't see any fruit in continuing this back and forth "I think" or "you can do this in software" discussion with you. I, and 99% of users, only care about how the product performs out of the box. A few may go further, with manual. That's it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you want better photos what i said works. 99% or not is meaningless. This is xda, do 99 % care about rooting, custom firmwares, or any number of hacks people share here ? So what 99% are you referring to and why do they matter. If anything i'm more interested in the 1%.
what i've said wrt to manual is no different. In fact its common knowledge to anyone who has a clue.
---------- Post added at 04:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:01 AM ----------
*Emix* said:
https://curved.de/news/galaxy-s6-one-m9-iphone-6-im-grossen-kameravergleich-236192
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why they didn't use iP6+ ?
1. night shots all soft because iso got boosted on m9. 2nd shot wrong wb for m9. 4th shot all have blown lights, cannot do this without blending.
2. again iso got boosted on m9. second selfie, because background is brighter so iso drops and looks normal.
3. is about where you set exposure.
4. macros are similar. contrast can be improved in post.
5. panoramas, heh all not to my liking because of cylindrical projection. no straight horizontals with such a wide fov.
6. food, can be improved in post or use manual. That ISO is maybe close to 600 try to get it at half.
curiousgeorge1893 said:
Not quite on topic but I've got an M8 coming, I'm ditching my Xperia Z2 for it, is that a good idea do you think?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What is it about the Z2 that you don't like ? You'd be trading fantastic video stabilisation for none.
The scene modes should help in low light if you use them right. However the lack of shutter control can be frustrating. A quick tweak can't be done. More trial & error.
I was put off by the 4MP camera as i admit I like to zoom and crop, however I like a phone that is good in lowlight.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What does 4MP do ? sharpens the mind. You have to think more carefully about what you want to get it right. If you want to zoom & crop then you need to be closer to your subject. if you can't do that then 4MP is out.
Also, I like a phone that offers manual controls and shutter speed, HTC phones are the only ones that do this plus a like a phone that has a good flash and takes photos quickly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
m8 is a fast shooter in auto. But this gap has been closed with the S6 and the S5 is fast too. Have you considered them ? No shutter control though. Given what they've done may or may not be that critical. These samsungs are primarily auto shooters. If they get what you want great, if not don't complain because you can't do much.
As for similar manual controls the hybrid zooms had them first and optical zoom is a plus. crop in camera not afterwards. K zoom or wait for the successor. Slower though. And apertures are smaller. 3.1 all the way to 6.3. Working OIS.
I was planning on getting a secondhand M9 later in the year but to be honest I am disappointed as I feel that HTC have go fowards then 2 steps backwards with the M9 camera. Whilst it's great it has a higher resolution, the f/2.0 aperature in the M7 and M8 is now f/2.2 on the M9, in my opinion it should have been f/2.0 or f/1.9, also lack of OIS is disappointing and it seems lowlight on the M9 isn't as good as the M8? Very disappointing if so.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The difference between f2.0 and 2.2 is a quarter a f-stop. That's like getting a shot at ISO 200 instead of 250. Or 1/50 instead of 1/40. Its insignficant as one or the other parameter will compensate anyway so not really as notable as reviewers make out.
However the m9 isn't as fast a camera as its predecessors.See the camera speed benchmark. Almost twice as slow as the m8. And the Z2 is faster than the m9. Does this matter ? only if you're rushed. And if you are you're not going to get very good shots to begin with. Is the choice no shot or passable. In that case look at an advanced compact with a 1 inch sensor. Much more light, faster lens and better quality. For the same money.
BoneXDA said:
I do notice the white balance shifting sometimes on the goldish side around sunlit areas, and the M9 tends to underexpose in such conditions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've noticed twice that it gets confused with halogen and neon lights, turning cream and red into green. With a yellow i can see how green can happen by wb adding blue, so just need to use a fluorescent wb or more. But cream into green is inexplicable for me. If its a bug then only a firmware update can fix it.
---------- Post added at 08:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:25 PM ----------
curiousgeorge1893 said:
I like the Z2 but not the post processing, it smudges details, I read on here that the Z3 does the same?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Whenever camera has to produce a jpg and do it fast it has to make a call between preserving detail (ie more noise) or smoothness (less noise). I've seen smudging happen with vegetation, it happens with all jpg outputting devices to varying degrees. To make larger features look good means smaller are going to appear less sharp. Must have the lowest ISO with a longer shutter that means anything that moves is out unless light is good or smudging gets worse.
Only way is raw but you have to process every image yourself, and its a much bigger file so it will be slower than 4mp jpg.
Compare these two from nexus 5. Jpg vs processed RAW. Pull the full resolution and pixel peep all you want.
The originals come from fv5 site.
You control what should be more in detail or not instead of some average one size fits all algorithm with an impossible task that is optimised for speed by trading off image quality. Image quality here isn't file size but a function of how much luminance and chroma noise is preserved or not.
That algorithm and its implementation is the source of lots of heated argument over which is the better camera. Silly really.
SPreston2001 said:
The whole camera comparison may be silly, but 90% of users just want to pick up the phone and snap good pics. Most users don't fiddle around with the camera settings or even know what they do for that matter lol. All they see are which photos look the best when they pick up their phone and take a pic. The M9 camera seems to be alot better than the M8s camera but it still tends to fall behind Apples and Samsungs imaging abilities.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then those people should stick with the brands mentioned. Those brands are for people with no interest in photography. WHAT took the shot is more important than WHO took it. That is the mindset auto everything encourages, what did the owner do, just press a button. Still I would not be surprised to find people even on those boards complaining about something or the other.
Where i'm coming from is what if you don't want those brands for whatever reasons. What then ?
You wait for firmware upgrades and you learn how to get better shots. What went wrong and how to get around it.
My attitude is you are stuck with this thing and you are going to have to make the best of it. Few months later you will find people here doing just that. A review can never match it.
One Twelve said:
Then those people should stick with the brands mentioned. Those brands are for people with no interest in photography. WHAT took the shot is more important than WHO took it. That is the mindset auto everything encourages, what did the owner do, just press a button. Still I would not be surprised to find people even on those boards complaining about something or the other.
Where i'm coming from is what if you don't want those brands for whatever reasons. What then ?
You wait for firmware upgrades and you learn how to get better shots. What went wrong and how to get around it.
My attitude is you are stuck with this thing and you are going to have to make the best of it. Few months later you will find people here doing just that. A review can never match it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So HTC phones are for people who have interest in photography?? Lol they usually have the worst cameras amongst flagship devices yet theyre for photography minded people?? You act as of HTC is the only manufacturer that has the ability to tweak the camera settings. Most "serious" photographers won't use a cellphone to take a pic. The whole idea of cell cams is to capture quick and beautiful everyday life pictures. The ability to tweak the settings is just a added bonus for those who want to get a little more serious with it.
But to each his own I guess. When it comes to cell cams I just wanna pull it, out take a pic, and expect it to look good. If tweaking the settings to get the perfect shot is for you then that's fine. But all I'm saying is those same things can be done with other manufacturers cams too.
gavinfabl said:
This is a photos thread. We need photos! The weather for another day is gales and heavy rain here, so ruined my planned day of shooting again. Using manual settings I have captured some good shots (but private photos of family). Lowering resolution down a fraction helps in lower light. Auto is OK but when I take control even with a single tweak the difference is noticeable. I've used the S6 and S6 Edge and compared it with my Note 4. The S6 has a good auto mode.
This is my S6 and S6 Edge camera shots , and vs Note 4 camera. http://gavinsgadgets.com/2015/03/19...sung-galaxy-s6-and-s6-edge-plus-camera-shots/
I will have more in depth analysis when it's stops raining .....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can't say my experience with the s6 / edge was similar. On the camera front yes the camera is fast. But I found a huge issue with white balance and somewhat heavier than normal post processing (pretty evident when you look at the photos on a camera). The problem is even in pro mode, the camera still struggles with white balance. I am a white balance whore to be honest and when I see a camera struggle, I shudder.
Touchwiz lagged for me. Immensely. I kept flicking through the homescreen, not many widgets above the stock ones, and there were multiple times the device just locked up. Even after rebooting the device quite a few times, there was lag. Off topic, I watched the verge podcast recently and they also affirmed a lot of the lag I experienced with my model.
So far, I'm semi disappointed. The devices are light (like physically, I expected something much heavier). The GS6 felt boxy and somewhat sharper for my tastes while the Edge just "fit" in my hand like a really nice glove. I was stunned that the edge was the more interesting feeling device. Both devices are fingerprint magnets though almost to the point of being disgusting. After 10 minutes of handling, I was in awe with the amount of smudges and oil the back of the device accrued from general handling.
Handling is something that the Edge excels in for the most part. It feels "natural" to swipe at an edge point and get a hamburg menu from Google. And you do in GMAIL, Google Play, and a myriad of other areas. It just feels like touchwiz didn't necessarily provide too many gesture driven tasks that would really take benefit of the edge display. II mean sure you get the call context menus and the light up gimmick, but that's about it sadly. The shame of it all is that above that, the GS6 is a beautiful iphone 5-5s ripoff and the Edge is something of a quagmire begging for a developer to put it to good use. It can be obtrusive but not so much to the point it ruins the user experience.
Overall, I'm left somewhat underwhelmed with the devices. Sure, the screen is gorgeous with marvelous viewing angle fitting for a flagship. But it feels like the GS6 / edge is a iterative step in a unique and bold direction that didn't fully deliver.
Shame actually. Most people will love the GS6 / Edge. Me, I'll be forever disappoint
SPreston2001 said:
So HTC phones are for people who have interest in photography??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What purpose is there to provide manual controls then ? nokia started this btw.
Lol they usually have the worst cameras amongst flagship devices yet theyre for photography minded people??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
its a mindset that comes naturally to those that are into photography. They are going to try a great deal more before throwing in the towel.
Very obvious when i see Jesse's photos. You make the shot not the camera. newbies whenever they see a nice photo always want to know what camera took the shot. The person, well he just clicked. How hard could it be. They like to hide behind their cameras. Often i see shots that are horribly taken and well it was the camera's fault.
HTC is a bad camera with people who cannot take a photo. I've never bought into the 4MP was bad. A full HD screen can only display 2MP anyway. if you're not zooming or need to then you're focus is on how nice the shot looks rather than whether you can count hairs on somebody's head. I've seen people post nice photos here. if you need to crop your photos then you ain't thinking about your shots or your use case exceeds what 4MP can provide.
You act as of HTC is the only manufacturer that has the ability to tweak the camera settings.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lets be clear on what manual settings i'm referring to here. Who else offers shutter speed control ?
apple only woke up to the fact in their latest OS. prior to which you could do squat cos um turtle neck deemed it unecessary. Nokia had them early and the cheapest lumias 635 ? do too. samsungs don't not even in their latest. neither does moto, or LG which went backwards with the G3 or Sony. The Chinese provide some more. So yeah HTC since the m8 was the only android offering on a fixed focal lens that offered shutter control. Makes it easy to fix things if you were so inclined. Samsung's galaxy camera is the only other that can claim to have had it first on android earlier and its a compact.
Most "serious" photographers won't use a cellphone to take a pic. The whole idea of cell cams is to capture quick and beautiful everyday life pictures. The ability to tweak the settings is just a added bonus for those who want to get a little more serious with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A cam is a cam and you can learn photography with any cam and play more with one that allows manual settings. I don't have a DSLR because i've not got to the point where i need one. I take shots every day and i like to tweak them because auto cant get it right. Its very normal to have access if not always necessary. But i'd rather have them and not need them than the other way around.
If you drive a stick shift you won't enjoy driving a cruiser.
But to each his own I guess. When it comes to cell cams I just wanna pull it, out take a pic, and expect it to look good. If tweaking the settings to get the perfect shot is for you then that's fine. But all I'm saying is those same things can be done with other manufacturers cams too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I never expect it to look good, if it does then conditions were perfect and i was lucky, i will usually take a auto shot and if it fine leave it at that or try to tweak things about and take a couple more. I always try to take more than one. A phone is going to get thrown into so many varied situations that would challenge a pro. To expect to get it right in one take with a phone camera when pointing at anything you can think of isn't realistic.
nebulaoperator said:
Whether it's ISO OIS or else it does not stop camera to perform well. Take A look at Iphone 6 it works wonders. Low light is not on the par with M7 m8. The thing you have to understand , strongly camera orientated phone should not come with a sticker on the box " want a better image use manual"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A tweak here or there will always improve a shot. How many people know that. Then there is the question of will. if its there and you don't use it then its not the camera's fault. It is there for flexibility.
iphone 6 no, but 6+ will get shots at 1/4. Apple thinks slower than 1/12 is not feasible for iP6. To go slower than 1/4 have to use 3rd party soft to tweak things. iphone camera has always been capable but until ios8 there was no way to access camera parameters so low light was never good.
I saw ifone users don't even know AE/AF lock exist till I showed. Iphone 6 has the simplest UI that can be invented I also call it Dummy proof. I think you can get an app to have access to tweaks option otherwise it's a bit limited to my taste.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes its useful there is also a way to do some exposure comp but it changes metering to spot from average or whatever apple equivalent is. A review was comparing 6 & 6+ and saying photos looked better with 6+ until i saw the exifs and pointed out both were using different metering. So of course shots will look different.
With the latest ios you have much more options than before. Curious apple did a u turn there. But not stock just with 3rd party software.
A lot people say because AUTO doesn't work. Why would I have buy "they will fix it" if I pay 500-600 GBP for a phone. It doesn't work like that. And in most cases software improved performance but only to a point .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So wait for a few months then decide. As for firmware improvements. If you take a shot with firmware a at ISO 200 and compare with firmware b at ISO 200, there will be little difference.
What i mean is they can lower ISO for lower light shots so it does not boost it so high. This will improve auto some. But to go further it requires manual. Possible now, if somebody would try.
They can improve white balance with auto but it will get tricked some times so only up to a point.
I can blame phone camera without long hesitation for two reasons: if hardware sucks or software or both. Then no amount of tweaks can help you. M7 is notorious for washouts, poor dynamic range. I found HDR was never a strong suite of M7 neither M8 or M9. However if you can tweak settings you might get away bringing images to photoshop. That's what I do. On the other hand only minority people are enthusiast like we are and the majority should be at least faulted for what smartphone manufacturer didn't do in the first place. If iphone , nokia, samsung(from 2014) proved there is a lot more that can be done with camera.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They are trying to make it easy for the average person in the hope of selling more products. The traditional way is to learn how to use the product. I know the washouts you mean, blown skies etc. But once a person is aware of that you can improve it.
Low light was nevera weak spot for HTC One line(until now M9) it was cloudy weather condition with little contrast, also situation when I have half frame window in and the other half room. It would go into extremes overexpose the light in the window or underexposedarks barely visible. Sensor and software is not coping with dynamic range. I kind of like night mode but found it to slow in some situation due to the shutter speed so I just used normal mode it did great though. I wish I could try RAW mode but unfortunately I am selling my phone today ( Not sure if RAW will be brought to lollipop for M7)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So what are you getting ?
freedcam can already output raw on m7 & m8 and by the looks of it m9 too. htc made this easy.
I worked with photographer who used hood for the headshots and it was game changer.
For instance Iphone6 is least prone to that error but most Android camera phones I came across are. I was surprised by Note 4 results and S6 I would never think they can do so well. So it must be bug or hardware or both as I mentioned earlier. Nice photos from M9 but WB is somehow a bit off sometimes on the blue side( couple of weeks before it was to yellow green Funny enough you are the first I came across that used hand to block the light I do that too. I guess we both come from the same/similar trade.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It was an accidental discovery. I was taking shot of somebody outside the house from inside with a tab (!) and wondered why the clothes were so saturated.
There is something up with the m9's WB i can see from numerous photos. But nobody is trying manual to fix it.
Was looking at latest world press photo contest. Many with pro dslrs and i saw one person entered an iphone photo and its in the list of winners. Out of 95k entries !!! smartphone photo..Can you believe it
Lol this thread is very entertaining to say the least
twoeleven99 said:
Lol this thread is very entertaining to say the least
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So what's your take on the M9 pictures, if I may ask?
Sent using Tapatalk
I realize this might not be the right forum since I assume people here are going to be pro lg... But I'm seriously considering this on tmobile and I currently have a note 4.
Ive never had a phone this long (22+ months with the note 4) but I'm trying to consider upgrading but when I compare features to features I was hoping for "more"...?
The big thing is the lcd screen vs amoled screen... Just not sure..
Can anyone voice some opinions or comments? I'd appreciate it. Thanks in advance!
sure. note 4 was a great phone, and the v20 looks awesome too. my last phone was a note 4. have an s7 now and tbh, I liked the note a bit better. screen was better on the note imo, but the camera and overall speed is better on the snap 820. overall, the v20 will be so much quicker and less laggy than the note, and the LCD screens aren't bad. I enjoyed my g2 LCD screen when I had it.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S7 using Tapatalk
jayochs said:
sure. note 4 was a great phone, and the v20 looks awesome too. my last phone was a note 4. have an s7 now and tbh, I liked the note a bit better. screen was better on the note imo, but the camera and overall speed is better on the snap 820. overall, the v20 will be so much quicker and less laggy than the note, and the LCD screens aren't bad. I enjoyed my g2 LCD screen when I had it.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S7 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had the Note 7 for a month and just recently played with the V20. I consider this an upgrade over the Note 7, so yes I would definitely consider it an upgrade over the Note 4, haha.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using XDA-Developers mobile app
I would consider it a worthy upgrade.
You're getting a removable battery
SD card expansion
IR blaster
Great camera
Great video
Better specs (soc)
Overall in keeping with the note line the v20 is more like it then the note 7 minus the stylus.
And that's really what it boils down too.
Sent from my SM-N930F using Tapatalk
Reading and watching the reviews of the v20 are driving me crazy. So many say it's amazing. The only down side I saw was camera. One video (who knows which one?) showed side by side of 4 phone's all shot the same image, the v20 didn't look as good as the others. If I find it again I'll post the link.
I'm sure that's subjective as I'm certain any flagship phone today must have an amazing camera.
Yes my n4 is about to die and I'm preordering the v20 asap
Araltd said:
Reading and watching the reviews of the v20 are driving me crazy. So many say it's amazing. The only down side I saw was camera. One video (who knows which one?) showed side by side of 4 phone's all shot the same image, the v20 didn't look as good as the others. If I find it again I'll post the link.
I'm sure that's subjective as I'm certain any flagship phone today must have an amazing camera.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's crazy to me. The camera seems to be arguably the best around. Playing with it was fun at the store. Amazing manual mode!
Sent from my SCH-I535 using XDA-Developers mobile app
PsiPhiDan said:
That's crazy to me. The camera seems to be arguably the best around. Playing with it was fun at the store. Amazing manual mode!
Sent from my SCH-I535 using XDA-Developers mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Looks like its biggest downfall is it exposes to the right by quite a bit. This causes highlights to blow pretty quickly. I've already decided I'll just dial in a little -ev if that isn't fixed in the final FW. Other than that, it sounds like everything else is just stuff you'd expect from a cellphone camera sensor. (Noise for example but I'd rather have noise than a blurry mess from aggressive noise reduction. Working with noise is pretty easy. Trying to find detail that has been obliterated before the file was written isn't.) After all, A LOT of classic photos weren't shot with massive dynamic range and no noise/grain like a lot of specs chasers want these days.
CHH2 said:
Looks like its biggest downfall is it exposes to the right by quite a bit. This causes highlights to blow pretty quickly. I've already decided I'll just dial in a little -ev if that isn't fixed in the final FW. Other than that, it sounds like everything else is just stuff you'd expect from a cellphone camera sensor. (Noise for example but I'd rather have noise than a blurry mess from aggressive noise reduction. Working with noise is pretty easy. Trying to find detail that has been obliterated before the file was written isn't.) After all, A LOT of classic photos weren't shot with massive dynamic range and no noise/grain like a lot of specs chasers want these days.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What is ev? Im coming from the note 7 and want to get the camera as good as the Note 7s. I think I am going to have to learn to use manual mode to equal the 7.
thegameksk said:
What is ev? Im coming from the note 7 and want to get the camera as good as the Note 7s. I think I am going to have to learn to use manual mode to equal the 7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Manual is indeed the way to go when you have time to get the very best shot you can.
EV means exposure value. In this case on most cameras, you'll see a button, dial, or menu item that says EV. Once activated, you should see some sort of scale that goes from a "-" value of some sort to a "+" value usually of the same amount. There is usually a 0 in the middle which is where you will most likely find the indicator resting at if the camera hasn't been messed with previously. The 0 value just means the exposure will be shot as metered. If you dial in a "-" value, the shot will be exposed that much darker. (Or with the graph shifted to the left on a histogram.) If you dial in a "+" value, the shot will be exposed brighter by that much. (Or with the graph shifted to the right on a histogram.) In the case of what has been seen in the pre-release FW, a little bit of "-" EV will darken the overall exposure and help save some of the brighter sections (highlights) of the photo from blowing out but it could run the risk of losing the shadows to complete black. (The range of how much highlight to shadow detail that can be kept is your dynamic range. Back in the day, you could easily end up losing both ends. Now modern DSLRs have such massive dynamic range that the photos they generate can be boring without artificially compressing the DR back down.) Camera FW makers tend to have to make a choice on if they want to lean more right or left on the histogram. Looks like the pre-release software was leaning to the right which is brighter and helps reduce noise.
Sorry if that was a bit overboard of an explanation.
Wow, that's a great explanation! I actually understood (most of) that.
When I said above, about the 4 comparisons of camera quality - the v20 looked to bright or washed out, not dark enough, not saturated enough. I guess I know why now.
For those who know better than I would, let me ask this question... Being so late in the year, and with MWC at the end of February in Barcelona, do you think something "significantly" better than the v20 will be available in 4 to 6 months? I'm not sure how long the sd820 has been out? But I know the sd821 claims a 10% performance increase and is available in the Pixel now.
I guess I don't want to get the v20 and regret it soon afterwards. Just kind of talking things out with you all.
Araltd said:
Wow, that's a great explanation! I actually understood (most of) that.
When I said above, about the 4 comparisons of camera quality - the v20 looked to bright or washed out, not dark enough, not saturated enough. I guess I know why now.
For those who know better than I would, let me ask this question... Being so late in the year, and with MWC at the end of February in Barcelona, do you think something "significantly" better than the v20 will be available in 4 to 6 months? I'm not sure how long the sd820 has been out? But I know the sd821 claims a 10% performance increase and is available in the Pixel now.
I guess I don't want to get the v20 and regret it soon afterwards. Just kind of talking things out with you all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Rumors of the G6 are already coming out. I am split between Samsung being extremely cautious on their next release or pushing their staff hard to get something awesome out as quickly as possible. I could see it go both ways. One being easier, one stressing the heck out of their staff. I do believe Samsung S8 rumors are now flying around. The 821 will probably be the chip in flagships for MWC.
Basically, there's always going to be something new around the corner. There's no avoiding it. It's a matter of finding something you like and can deal with on your personal upgrade window. Just buy accepting the features a phone has now and any upgrades and features added to the phone later should be regarded as bonuses.
CHH2 said:
Manual is indeed the way to go when you have time to get the very best shot you can.
EV means exposure value. In this case on most cameras, you'll see a button, dial, or menu item that says EV. Once activated, you should see some sort of scale that goes from a "-" value of some sort to a "+" value usually of the same amount. There is usually a 0 in the middle which is where you will most likely find the indicator resting at if the camera hasn't been messed with previously. The 0 value just means the exposure will be shot as metered. If you dial in a "-" value, the shot will be exposed that much darker. (Or with the graph shifted to the left on a histogram.) If you dial in a "+" value, the shot will be exposed brighter by that much. (Or with the graph shifted to the right on a histogram.) In the case of what has been seen in the pre-release FW, a little bit of "-" EV will darken the overall exposure and help save some of the brighter sections (highlights) of the photo from blowing out but it could run the risk of losing the shadows to complete black. (The range of how much highlight to shadow detail that can be kept is your dynamic range. Back in the day, you could easily end up losing both ends. Now modern DSLRs have such massive dynamic range that the photos they generate can be boring without artificially compressing the DR back down.) Camera FW makers tend to have to make a choice on if they want to lean more right or left on the histogram. Looks like the pre-release software was leaning to the right which is brighter and helps reduce noise.
Sorry if that was a bit overboard of an explanation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you. Where can I find more info on how best to play with the manual settings? Does such a thing exist?
thegameksk said:
Thank you. Where can I find more info on how best to play with the manual settings? Does such a thing exist?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I could probably find a resource after my meeting here in just a bit but most basic photo explanations should work if you look at a modern one. Just remember that the aperture is stuck at whatever it is for the respective camera. You will only get to change the speed and ISO in the exposure triangle.
thegameksk said:
Thank you. Where can I find more info on how best to play with the manual settings? Does such a thing exist?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seems there's very few resources out there that are concise and cover what one needs to know to get to manual shooting with something like this. I only had a few minutes to play with the V20 (and most of that was with the camera) so I'll try to give it a whack. First thing I'll tell you is to take a deep breath and a sigh of relief. The V20 will make learning manual a breeze!
The V20 seems to adjust the view on the screen to what settings you use. Don't use a long enough shutter speed or high enough ISO? The screen gets dark. Use too much of either or both? Screen starts to blow out. Don't have the right white balance, you'll probably see that too. (White balance can be a little tricky though. It actually wants to change the photo from what you are actually seeing to make sure whites are always white. This ends up being a little bit personal preference and you can end up with some cool effects when you learn it deeper.) What's really awesome is that manual focusing has the aid of focus peaking.
Setting your exposure usually entails the exposure triangle of aperture, shutter speed and ISO. (ISO is its own mess to explain but overly simplified, it's the "strength" but it comes with the downside of noise as it gets stronger.) Your desired exposure would be the geometric area of the triangle for the sake of analogy. You can push and pull on any of the corners of the triangle you want but if you want to keep the same area, you'll have to also push or pull on one of the other corners. On the phone cameras, the aperture is usually locked. In the case of the V20, that's 1.8 for the main camera. So you get shutter speed and ISO to play with. If you use a low ISO number, you will need to pick a slower shutter speed. If you use a higher ISO, you will pick a faster shutter speed. The view on screen will let you know if you're going in the right direction or not as I mentioned earlier.
Faster the shutter speed, the better to freeze motion. The slower shutter speed with blur motion. Lower the ISO number, the cleaner you photo will be from noise. (Shows up as a bunch of speckling, sometimes different colored speckles.) The higher the ISO number, the more noise you will see.
White balance can be set to make sure the colors hit the ideal, so whites are white without a color cast to them. This gets to be a little bit of a mental exercise. A lot of people are completely on board with the idea that if they are shooting indoors in incandescent light, they should set the WB so that the incandescent light gets filtered out and white is white again. The problem is that this isn't what you're actually seeing, you're idealizing the scene. In reality, that incandescent light is part of the "ambiance" of the scene. So the nice thing about manual WB is that you can decide which is more important to the scene, white whites or the feel the light gives to the shot.
Manual focusing can be extremely difficult without a proper aid. The V20 features focus peaking. As areas come into focus, they will light up with a bunch of glowing lines. This helps heaps.
Something else worth noting that I saw when I was playing with the V20 was flash modes. The standard no flash, forced flash and auto flash are there but there's one more denoted by a flash symbol with a "R". I'm assuming this is read curtain sync flash. Normal flash goes off at the beginning of an exposure while rear curtain goes off at the end of the exposure instead. The usual way to demo this is a car driving away at night. (Assuming we're using a flash stronger than the V20 but you'll get the idea.) With regular flash, you will have a photo of a car close to you that has trails of tail lights disappearing off into the distance. Rear curtain fixes this by having lead off to the distance where there is the car. If you use forced flash, I would tend to opt for rear curtain. Auto will use front curtain if you have that in play.
Video is whole different beast that I'm still teaching myself. I know you want to use a shutter speed that is double your frame rate. So a frame rate of 24fps would result in 1/50s shutter speed, 30fps is 1/60s, etc. The slow mo settings like 120fps require a lot of light! But there's a lot more to video that I still have to learn but as far as phones go, the V20 looks like it is way ahead of the game compared to even my DSLR.
What do you guys think? Pixel 2 suffers in low light but other than that, its very good.
Mods can you move this to real life reviews? I cant make a thread there for some reason
MODERATOR NOTICE: YOUTUBE VIDEO DELETED
Per the forum rules:
5. Create a thread topic or post a message only once, this includes external links & streaming media.
As a large forum, we don't need unnecessary clutter. You're free to edit your message as you like, so if you do not receive an answer, revisit your message and see if you can describe your problem better. Not everyone is online at the same time so it might take a while before you receive an answer.
You can bump your unanswered question once every 24 hours
Duplicate threads and posts will be removed
Always post in an existing thread if a topic already exists, before creating a new thread.
Use our search function to find the best forum for your device.
Links to an external source are only allowed if relevant to the topic in hand. A description must be included, no copy & pasting from the original source.
Self-promotion is forbidden, this includes blogs, social media and video channels etc. Random links will be removed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Videos may be added to a post with meaningful descriptive content. Posting to point people to your YouTube videos or channel will be considered spam, have their links removed, and will be closed. Duplicate posts will be deleted.
What do you guys think?
The review, as mostly 99% of all camera reviews on YouTube - and specifically the Indian ones, is a mess (to be diplomatic about it!).
There is absolutely no details about the settings that guy used. I presume he only used out-of-the-box / automatic settings on both iPhone X and Pixel 2 XL which is ... lame.
iPhone is very restrictive in terms of what a user is allowed to do with camera settings and the night shots, while improved over the previous generations iPhones, they are still messy. Somehow following the trend, Google has emasculated the camera of some real balls but still has kept to aces in his sleeve: HDR+ and HDR+ Enhanced.
Provided the reviewing guy would have really wanted to squeeze the most of the two smartphone camera he might have gone with the Pixel 2 XL HDR+ for the night and the results would have been really different.
Don't get me wrong. Pixel 2 can be awful for night shots if one's using the defaults in the camera but can also produce wonders with the HDR+ Enhanced mode. Not to mention that there ar community custom versions of Google Camera APK which for the night shots can yield stunning results with way longer exposure times, yet a tripod would be needed to stabilize the beast.
I have attached a sample of nearly dark scene from my Pixel 2 shot, handheld, with Camera_v3.8c_test.apk.
Without looking at it, in the prior comparisons I've seen, I generally prefer the opposite, of iphone X photos for daylight and Pixel 2 for low light. I also tend to prefer the colors of the Pixel photos. And then it is mixed for special situations like close ups and landscape shots.
So it probably is a matter of comparing really good cameras at this point versus the old ones where there would often be a clear winner in most categories. But I'll watch and see how this is done.
Edit: Ok, so I haven't changed my mind after watching the review, except the way he took low light photos did look much worse. But I've seen dim light comparisons where the Pixel 2XL pictures look better.
Definitely a bit of eye of the beholder in the review. It is very hard to compare photos within a video, versus having the actual photos to pull up. His first comparison where he says they look basically the same, I would say the iphone was much clearer. i.e. the sign is clearer and plants in the background have more detail.
I would prefer if he used one of those setups with the phones mounted to something side by side (other than close up shots). Instead he seems to do one, then the other as some have very different angles. Even in the video where he has them somehow mounted, the video does not seem to be locked together. Like it isn't a very solid mounting arrangement. I know there is image stabilization going on, but it just doesn't look like the phones are moving in lock step.
The videos have to be stop framed as he moves around way too much. From that, I think most of the time the Pixel is much better, but at times the iphone video looks better, and usually when it is darker. But he's also combining them in software to make the youtube video, so it would be again nice to have the actual videos rather than and edited together one.
Oddly, the iphone photos look less blue, but video looks more blue and more muted colors in general.
I found this other comparison. Doesn't do low light outside though.
https://www.cnet.com/pictures/iphone-x-vs-pixel-2-photos-are-two-cameras-better-than-one/
Voicebox said:
Without looking at it, in the prior comparisons I've seen, I generally prefer the opposite, of iphone X photos for daylight and Pixel 2 for low light. I also tend to prefer the colors of the Pixel photos. And then it is mixed for special situations like close ups and landscape shots.
So it probably is a matter of comparing really good cameras at this point versus the old ones where there would often be a clear winner in most categories. But I'll watch and see how this is done.
Edit: Ok, so I haven't changed my mind after watching the review, except the way he took low light photos did look much worse. But I've seen dim light comparisons where the Pixel 2XL pictures look better.
Definitely a bit of eye of the beholder in the review. It is very hard to compare photos within a video, versus having the actual photos to pull up. His first comparison where he says they look basically the same, I would say the iphone was much clearer. i.e. the sign is clearer and plants in the background have more detail.
I would prefer if he used one of those setups with the phones mounted to something side by side (other than close up shots). Instead he seems to do one, then the other as some have very different angles. Even in the video where he has them somehow mounted, the video does not seem to be locked together. Like it isn't a very solid mounting arrangement. I know there is image stabilization going on, but it just doesn't look like the phones are moving in lock step.
The videos have to be stop framed as he moves around way too much. From that, I think most of the time the Pixel is much better, but at times the iphone video looks better, and usually when it is darker. But he's also combining them in software to make the youtube video, so it would be again nice to have the actual videos rather than and edited together one.
Oddly, the iphone photos look less blue, but video looks more blue and more muted colors in general.
I found this other comparison. Doesn't do low light outside though.
https://www.cnet.com/pictures/iphone-x-vs-pixel-2-photos-are-two-cameras-better-than-one/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your observations are sharp on. Indeed the review is off by margins from a relevant one.
Here is another night shot, out of the camera, but I can't remember if I used the Google Camera or the modified one... Anyway the images speaks truth about camera's capabilities with Google's magic algorithms.
dehnhaide said:
The review, as mostly 99% of all camera reviews on YouTube - and specifically the Indian ones, is a mess (to be diplomatic about it!).
There is absolutely no details about the settings that guy used. I presume he only used out-of-the-box / automatic settings on both iPhone X and Pixel 2 XL which is ... lame.
iPhone is very restrictive in terms of what a user is allowed to do with camera settings and the night shots, while improved over the previous generations iPhones, they are still messy. Somehow following the trend, Google has emasculated the camera of some real balls but still has kept to aces in his sleeve: HDR+ and HDR+ Enhanced.
Provided the reviewing guy would have really wanted to squeeze the most of the two smartphone camera he might have gone with the Pixel 2 XL HDR+ for the night and the results would have been really different.
Don't get me wrong. Pixel 2 can be awful for night shots if one's using the defaults in the camera but can also produce wonders with the HDR+ Enhanced mode. Not to mention that there ar community custom versions of Google Camera APK which for the night shots can yield stunning results with way longer exposure times, yet a tripod would be needed to stabilize the beast.
I have attached a sample of nearly dark scene from my Pixel 2 shot, handheld, with Camera_v3.8c_test.apk.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You don't know what you're talking about. HDR+ Enhanced does NOT work better at night. The ONLY thing that mode is to be used for is, very rarely, better dynamic range. The difference was more noticeable in the 2016 Pixels. In the 2017 phones, HDR+ On and HDR+ Enhanced make the same result the vast majority of the time. HDR+ On (default mode) is BETTER at night because it captures more frames and reduces noise. The Pixel is noisier than the iPhone in lowlight photography... but has much better dynamic range, and typically better detail. If you don't like the noise, smooth out the noise (and detail as a result) in post processing.
this is a good comparison video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m70Fuoz2cxw
Please don’t delete this topic it’s fair warning!
I hate to be right sometimes but as I told long ago after years of testing it turns out that the best camera of Samsung was in S6 / S6Edge+. Test it yourself. Hold S6 in one hand and for example S8 in the other and take a photo in good light. Then zoom it on the phone and you will see that S6 has better details, no artificial brightener while for example S8 has it.
S6 has 16 Mpix and all flagships that came after had 12 Mpix rear camera.
I’ve tested S6 Edge Plus vs. S7 / S8 / S8+, Note8, S9, S9+ and…
only S9+ finally beat S6. (look how Samsung did bad for us from Sep2015 till March2018)
I wish I had NOT sale my S6 and bought a newer one
If You don't believe me? Ask XDA members who has S6 and a later Galaxy S model (but not S9+)
This is a Warning for You don't sell your S6!!!! or sell only if you can afford to buy S9+.
I did the wrong thing so I Warn you no to make the same mistake that I did
Dont get the wrong idea. I have nothing against S7Active. I just tell that in good ligght S6E+ wins.
There was a topic with XDA members (elite,expert and dev) agreed with me.
You are absolutely 200% correct on that. I noticed the decrease in image quality (Not only sharpness and resolution but also color and overall image appeal) immediately after I got the S7 Active. I wish my S6 Active wasn't stolen. That camera was better than this.
ThunderingLight said:
You are absolutely 200% correct on that. I noticed the decrease in image quality (Not only sharpness and resolution but also color and overall image appeal) immediately after I got the S7 Active. I wish my S6 Active wasn't stolen. That camera was better than this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Finally One person out of a few saw that. Thanks buddy!
ThunderingLight said:
You are absolutely 200% correct on that. I noticed the decrease in image quality (Not only sharpness and resolution but also color and overall image appeal) immediately after I got the S7 Active. I wish my S6 Active wasn't stolen. That camera was better than this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Finally someone out of a few XDA members agreed with my observations.
Can a moderator delete this thread? I don't see how pining over a phone that's three generations old is useful and even relevant to the S7 active. What are we supposed to do, ditch our phones and go buy an older phone that is no longer supported and likely to have worn out batteries and the like? This has to be some kind of joke.
faronium said:
Can a moderator delete this thread? I don't see how pining over a phone that's three generations old is useful and even relevant to the S7 active. What are we supposed to do, ditch our phones and go buy an older phone that is no longer supported and likely to have worn out batteries and the like? This has to be some kind of joke.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With all respedt dude You dont understant THAT was a warning for people that want to change S6 ONLY for CAM quality and they wonder what to change for. Its for them not for You. You absoylty musnt dich your phone. Please understand.
I said about a lot of people haaving S6 and their 1 and ONLY reason (cause it's a great phone) was to upgraade image quiality with newer phone.
== At leasdt 60% of ppl choose their phone because of cam!
Not to menntion teenagers when they selfie 100 times per day or photograph/record something funny inther classoorm and put it on Youtube.
androidbadboy said:
With all respedt dude You dont understant THAT was a warning for people that want to change S6 ONLY for CAM quality and they wonder what to change for. Its for them not for You. You absoylty musnt dich your phone. Please understand.
I said about a lot of people haaving S6 and their 1 and ONLY reason (cause it's a great phone) was to upgraade image quiality with newer phone.
== At leasdt 60% of ppl choose their phone because of cam!
Not to menntion teenagers when they selfie 100 times per day or photograph/record something funny inther classoorm and put it on Youtube.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
At the very least, make your title less alarming and less general. Give your thread a title that describes what you see the problem as so people like me who don't care about the topic aren't lead to read your thread because it wasn't clearly titled.
Second, by your logic, everyone with a gripe about how much better the S6 was than any other phone should post a new thread on this page and presumably a new thread on every other forum about phones that aren't the S6.
Finally, any social media photos/videos that teenagers are sharing don't need any kind of decent resolution or quality because they will be presented on a phone screen that's at most about 4 megapixels in resolution and generally the screens will be full HD at best. Even on a computer, 12MP is much more than enough.
Thread closed