Is the v20 viable upgrade to note 4 on T-Mobile?

Is the v20 viable upgrade to note 4 on T-Mobile? - LG V20 Questions & Answers

I realize this might not be the right forum since I assume people here are going to be pro lg... But I'm seriously considering this on tmobile and I currently have a note 4.
Ive never had a phone this long (22+ months with the note 4) but I'm trying to consider upgrading but when I compare features to features I was hoping for "more"...?
The big thing is the lcd screen vs amoled screen... Just not sure..
Can anyone voice some opinions or comments? I'd appreciate it. Thanks in advance!

sure. note 4 was a great phone, and the v20 looks awesome too. my last phone was a note 4. have an s7 now and tbh, I liked the note a bit better. screen was better on the note imo, but the camera and overall speed is better on the snap 820. overall, the v20 will be so much quicker and less laggy than the note, and the LCD screens aren't bad. I enjoyed my g2 LCD screen when I had it.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S7 using Tapatalk

jayochs said:
sure. note 4 was a great phone, and the v20 looks awesome too. my last phone was a note 4. have an s7 now and tbh, I liked the note a bit better. screen was better on the note imo, but the camera and overall speed is better on the snap 820. overall, the v20 will be so much quicker and less laggy than the note, and the LCD screens aren't bad. I enjoyed my g2 LCD screen when I had it.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S7 using Tapatalk
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I had the Note 7 for a month and just recently played with the V20. I consider this an upgrade over the Note 7, so yes I would definitely consider it an upgrade over the Note 4, haha.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using XDA-Developers mobile app

I would consider it a worthy upgrade.
You're getting a removable battery
SD card expansion
IR blaster
Great camera
Great video
Better specs (soc)
Overall in keeping with the note line the v20 is more like it then the note 7 minus the stylus.
And that's really what it boils down too.
Sent from my SM-N930F using Tapatalk

Reading and watching the reviews of the v20 are driving me crazy. So many say it's amazing. The only down side I saw was camera. One video (who knows which one?) showed side by side of 4 phone's all shot the same image, the v20 didn't look as good as the others. If I find it again I'll post the link.
I'm sure that's subjective as I'm certain any flagship phone today must have an amazing camera.

Yes my n4 is about to die and I'm preordering the v20 asap

Araltd said:
Reading and watching the reviews of the v20 are driving me crazy. So many say it's amazing. The only down side I saw was camera. One video (who knows which one?) showed side by side of 4 phone's all shot the same image, the v20 didn't look as good as the others. If I find it again I'll post the link.
I'm sure that's subjective as I'm certain any flagship phone today must have an amazing camera.
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That's crazy to me. The camera seems to be arguably the best around. Playing with it was fun at the store. Amazing manual mode!
Sent from my SCH-I535 using XDA-Developers mobile app

PsiPhiDan said:
That's crazy to me. The camera seems to be arguably the best around. Playing with it was fun at the store. Amazing manual mode!
Sent from my SCH-I535 using XDA-Developers mobile app
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Looks like its biggest downfall is it exposes to the right by quite a bit. This causes highlights to blow pretty quickly. I've already decided I'll just dial in a little -ev if that isn't fixed in the final FW. Other than that, it sounds like everything else is just stuff you'd expect from a cellphone camera sensor. (Noise for example but I'd rather have noise than a blurry mess from aggressive noise reduction. Working with noise is pretty easy. Trying to find detail that has been obliterated before the file was written isn't.) After all, A LOT of classic photos weren't shot with massive dynamic range and no noise/grain like a lot of specs chasers want these days.

CHH2 said:
Looks like its biggest downfall is it exposes to the right by quite a bit. This causes highlights to blow pretty quickly. I've already decided I'll just dial in a little -ev if that isn't fixed in the final FW. Other than that, it sounds like everything else is just stuff you'd expect from a cellphone camera sensor. (Noise for example but I'd rather have noise than a blurry mess from aggressive noise reduction. Working with noise is pretty easy. Trying to find detail that has been obliterated before the file was written isn't.) After all, A LOT of classic photos weren't shot with massive dynamic range and no noise/grain like a lot of specs chasers want these days.
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What is ev? Im coming from the note 7 and want to get the camera as good as the Note 7s. I think I am going to have to learn to use manual mode to equal the 7.

thegameksk said:
What is ev? Im coming from the note 7 and want to get the camera as good as the Note 7s. I think I am going to have to learn to use manual mode to equal the 7.
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Manual is indeed the way to go when you have time to get the very best shot you can.
EV means exposure value. In this case on most cameras, you'll see a button, dial, or menu item that says EV. Once activated, you should see some sort of scale that goes from a "-" value of some sort to a "+" value usually of the same amount. There is usually a 0 in the middle which is where you will most likely find the indicator resting at if the camera hasn't been messed with previously. The 0 value just means the exposure will be shot as metered. If you dial in a "-" value, the shot will be exposed that much darker. (Or with the graph shifted to the left on a histogram.) If you dial in a "+" value, the shot will be exposed brighter by that much. (Or with the graph shifted to the right on a histogram.) In the case of what has been seen in the pre-release FW, a little bit of "-" EV will darken the overall exposure and help save some of the brighter sections (highlights) of the photo from blowing out but it could run the risk of losing the shadows to complete black. (The range of how much highlight to shadow detail that can be kept is your dynamic range. Back in the day, you could easily end up losing both ends. Now modern DSLRs have such massive dynamic range that the photos they generate can be boring without artificially compressing the DR back down.) Camera FW makers tend to have to make a choice on if they want to lean more right or left on the histogram. Looks like the pre-release software was leaning to the right which is brighter and helps reduce noise.
Sorry if that was a bit overboard of an explanation.

Wow, that's a great explanation! I actually understood (most of) that.
When I said above, about the 4 comparisons of camera quality - the v20 looked to bright or washed out, not dark enough, not saturated enough. I guess I know why now.
For those who know better than I would, let me ask this question... Being so late in the year, and with MWC at the end of February in Barcelona, do you think something "significantly" better than the v20 will be available in 4 to 6 months? I'm not sure how long the sd820 has been out? But I know the sd821 claims a 10% performance increase and is available in the Pixel now.
I guess I don't want to get the v20 and regret it soon afterwards. Just kind of talking things out with you all.

Araltd said:
Wow, that's a great explanation! I actually understood (most of) that.
When I said above, about the 4 comparisons of camera quality - the v20 looked to bright or washed out, not dark enough, not saturated enough. I guess I know why now.
For those who know better than I would, let me ask this question... Being so late in the year, and with MWC at the end of February in Barcelona, do you think something "significantly" better than the v20 will be available in 4 to 6 months? I'm not sure how long the sd820 has been out? But I know the sd821 claims a 10% performance increase and is available in the Pixel now.
I guess I don't want to get the v20 and regret it soon afterwards. Just kind of talking things out with you all.
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Rumors of the G6 are already coming out. I am split between Samsung being extremely cautious on their next release or pushing their staff hard to get something awesome out as quickly as possible. I could see it go both ways. One being easier, one stressing the heck out of their staff. I do believe Samsung S8 rumors are now flying around. The 821 will probably be the chip in flagships for MWC.
Basically, there's always going to be something new around the corner. There's no avoiding it. It's a matter of finding something you like and can deal with on your personal upgrade window. Just buy accepting the features a phone has now and any upgrades and features added to the phone later should be regarded as bonuses.

CHH2 said:
Manual is indeed the way to go when you have time to get the very best shot you can.
EV means exposure value. In this case on most cameras, you'll see a button, dial, or menu item that says EV. Once activated, you should see some sort of scale that goes from a "-" value of some sort to a "+" value usually of the same amount. There is usually a 0 in the middle which is where you will most likely find the indicator resting at if the camera hasn't been messed with previously. The 0 value just means the exposure will be shot as metered. If you dial in a "-" value, the shot will be exposed that much darker. (Or with the graph shifted to the left on a histogram.) If you dial in a "+" value, the shot will be exposed brighter by that much. (Or with the graph shifted to the right on a histogram.) In the case of what has been seen in the pre-release FW, a little bit of "-" EV will darken the overall exposure and help save some of the brighter sections (highlights) of the photo from blowing out but it could run the risk of losing the shadows to complete black. (The range of how much highlight to shadow detail that can be kept is your dynamic range. Back in the day, you could easily end up losing both ends. Now modern DSLRs have such massive dynamic range that the photos they generate can be boring without artificially compressing the DR back down.) Camera FW makers tend to have to make a choice on if they want to lean more right or left on the histogram. Looks like the pre-release software was leaning to the right which is brighter and helps reduce noise.
Sorry if that was a bit overboard of an explanation.
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Thank you. Where can I find more info on how best to play with the manual settings? Does such a thing exist?

thegameksk said:
Thank you. Where can I find more info on how best to play with the manual settings? Does such a thing exist?
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I could probably find a resource after my meeting here in just a bit but most basic photo explanations should work if you look at a modern one. Just remember that the aperture is stuck at whatever it is for the respective camera. You will only get to change the speed and ISO in the exposure triangle.

thegameksk said:
Thank you. Where can I find more info on how best to play with the manual settings? Does such a thing exist?
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Seems there's very few resources out there that are concise and cover what one needs to know to get to manual shooting with something like this. I only had a few minutes to play with the V20 (and most of that was with the camera) so I'll try to give it a whack. First thing I'll tell you is to take a deep breath and a sigh of relief. The V20 will make learning manual a breeze!
The V20 seems to adjust the view on the screen to what settings you use. Don't use a long enough shutter speed or high enough ISO? The screen gets dark. Use too much of either or both? Screen starts to blow out. Don't have the right white balance, you'll probably see that too. (White balance can be a little tricky though. It actually wants to change the photo from what you are actually seeing to make sure whites are always white. This ends up being a little bit personal preference and you can end up with some cool effects when you learn it deeper.) What's really awesome is that manual focusing has the aid of focus peaking.
Setting your exposure usually entails the exposure triangle of aperture, shutter speed and ISO. (ISO is its own mess to explain but overly simplified, it's the "strength" but it comes with the downside of noise as it gets stronger.) Your desired exposure would be the geometric area of the triangle for the sake of analogy. You can push and pull on any of the corners of the triangle you want but if you want to keep the same area, you'll have to also push or pull on one of the other corners. On the phone cameras, the aperture is usually locked. In the case of the V20, that's 1.8 for the main camera. So you get shutter speed and ISO to play with. If you use a low ISO number, you will need to pick a slower shutter speed. If you use a higher ISO, you will pick a faster shutter speed. The view on screen will let you know if you're going in the right direction or not as I mentioned earlier.
Faster the shutter speed, the better to freeze motion. The slower shutter speed with blur motion. Lower the ISO number, the cleaner you photo will be from noise. (Shows up as a bunch of speckling, sometimes different colored speckles.) The higher the ISO number, the more noise you will see.
White balance can be set to make sure the colors hit the ideal, so whites are white without a color cast to them. This gets to be a little bit of a mental exercise. A lot of people are completely on board with the idea that if they are shooting indoors in incandescent light, they should set the WB so that the incandescent light gets filtered out and white is white again. The problem is that this isn't what you're actually seeing, you're idealizing the scene. In reality, that incandescent light is part of the "ambiance" of the scene. So the nice thing about manual WB is that you can decide which is more important to the scene, white whites or the feel the light gives to the shot.
Manual focusing can be extremely difficult without a proper aid. The V20 features focus peaking. As areas come into focus, they will light up with a bunch of glowing lines. This helps heaps.
Something else worth noting that I saw when I was playing with the V20 was flash modes. The standard no flash, forced flash and auto flash are there but there's one more denoted by a flash symbol with a "R". I'm assuming this is read curtain sync flash. Normal flash goes off at the beginning of an exposure while rear curtain goes off at the end of the exposure instead. The usual way to demo this is a car driving away at night. (Assuming we're using a flash stronger than the V20 but you'll get the idea.) With regular flash, you will have a photo of a car close to you that has trails of tail lights disappearing off into the distance. Rear curtain fixes this by having lead off to the distance where there is the car. If you use forced flash, I would tend to opt for rear curtain. Auto will use front curtain if you have that in play.
Video is whole different beast that I'm still teaching myself. I know you want to use a shutter speed that is double your frame rate. So a frame rate of 24fps would result in 1/50s shutter speed, 30fps is 1/60s, etc. The slow mo settings like 120fps require a lot of light! But there's a lot more to video that I still have to learn but as far as phones go, the V20 looks like it is way ahead of the game compared to even my DSLR.

Related

Low Light performance of Note 3 Camera

So I LOVE THIS PHONE, it has been everything I ever wanted in a phone except one key part; The low ligth performance.
I have taken a bunch of pics in darker settings (at work, in clubs, restaurants) and all my pics look blurry/oily (oil painting effect) and the only time I get sharp pics is on close up pics (really close up) with flash.
Is this the norm for this phone? Is samsung releasing an app update?
Do you guys have any apps that solve this issue and can you post them here/the setting you use with them. I have attached some pics below to show examples

I have the same problem.

have you tried it with the smart stabilization mode on ?

For me it turned out the smart stabilization mode was the culprit, disabling it fixed it.

yamensati said:
have you tried it with the smart stabilization mode on ?
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Yep and it only makes things more bright with no real advantage...it still looks blurred/oily and details are hard to make out; but hey I have a little bit more contrast/better colors

Updates wont' fix it - it's the hardware.

Take a look at the tiny little lens on the back of your Note 3. Then compare that with a point & shoot camera. Then realize N3's camera takes in a fraction of the light and has a miniscule sensor. Do you really expect similar performance?

You really need to play with settings, to squeeze maximum performance in low light and one setting for all won't work, but one thing is for sure, get as much light as possible from flash or elsewhere. If you ever watch pros making movies, half of their equipment is lights and light bouncing screens and they use them even in the daylight even with huge lenses costing thousands of dollars. I do agree Samsung could fine tune low light performance a little better, possibly having dedicated low light/night mode and explain "smart stabilization", which is not stabilization, but custom HDR, little better, but it's not that bad, considering small lens and sensor. I've seen that oil painting effect myself, but only in really low light where even DSLR would have hard time to cope.

pete4k said:
You really need to play with settings, to squeeze maximum performance in low light and one setting for all won't work, but one thing is for sure, get as much light as possible from flash or elsewhere. If you ever watch pros making movies, half of their equipment is lights and light bouncing screens and they use them even in the daylight even with huge lenses costing thousands of dollars. I do agree Samsung could fine tune low light performance a little better, possibly having dedicated low light/night mode and explain "smart stabilization", which is not stabilization, but custom HDR, little better, but it's not that bad, considering small lens and sensor. I've seen that oil painting effect myself, but only in really low light where even DSLR would have hard time to cope.
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what setting do you use in low light?

As I already said there is no one setting for all, but just to give an example, don't use smart stabilization for close distance , because then flash won't fire and here flash will give best results. On the other hand if you were shooting sunset, don't use flash because exposure will be too dark, unless you have people right in front as main subject etc. Smart stabilization won't work for moving objects, since it stocks multiple exposures on top of each other, but it may work pretty well for some static pictures. You could also try to manually set ISO and again it all depends, higher ISO will give you shorter exposure but much more noise, so for static picture you could try lower ISO and brace the phone against some hard surface to avoid shake, or even make a tripod. But nothing beats the light, so always try to position yourself with light behind you, so let's say inside the house have window behind you, not in front of you.

Ive owned every single Android device to date.. yes you read right, every one and if theres one thing Android Devs Can NOT get right out of the box .. its the freaking cameras.
Googles own Nexus 5 needed a few updates from LG to fix it. LGs own G2.. the camera is smudgey and noisey and needs a firmware update.
The LTE version of the S4 (I9005) had shutter lag out of the box, leaving pictures burred and noisey, which was fixed.. eventually... in 4.3.
Thank you so much for this post OP, I was considering a Note 3 as a back up to my Lumia 920 (WP8), soon to be a Lumia 1020.. Its getting ridiculous the way devs are treating us buyers like ****.. "Oh dont worry we can release an OTA next month".
Seriously, take it back and send an email to Samsung "Ram it Samsung", then go buy an HTC One Max.
Stop letting Devs Q&A treat us like ****, return your phones, then send Samsung a Scanned copy of the refund reciept.. explaining it didnt work out of the box.. theyd soon kick their Q&A into gear.

NightOrchid said:
Ive owned every single Android device to date.. yes you read right, every one and if theres one thing Android Devs Can NOT get right out of the box .. its the freaking cameras.
Googles own Nexus 5 needed a few updates from LG to fix it. LGs own G2.. the camera is smudgey and noisey and needs a firmware update.
The LTE version of the S4 (I9005) had shutter lag out of the box, leaving pictures burred and noisey, which was fixed.. eventually... in 4.3.
Thank you so much for this post OP, I was considering a Note 3 as a back up to my Lumia 920 (WP8), soon to be a Lumia 1020.. Its getting ridiculous the way devs are treating us buyers like ****.. "Oh dont worry we can release an OTA next month".
Seriously, take it back and send an email to Samsung "Ram it Samsung", then go buy an HTC One Max.
Stop letting Devs Q&A treat us like ****, return your phones, then send Samsung a Scanned copy of the refund reciept.. explaining it didnt work out of the box.. theyd soon kick their Q&A into gear.
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I would but I don't know another phone that has a pen. THe pen alone has been the one saving grace for me. I'm a very disorganized guy, ESPECIALLY PAPER and being able to have all my notes in one place has been really convenient. But I don't know, I would like to find a way to get forums to get in contact with Sammy and get them to fix cameras.
BTW does anyone know if the note 2's camera is a better camera and if it would be worth it to return the Note 3 for a Note 2
WHat makes me angry is that most reviewers swear the Note 3 camera is godly. Well not at all in low light

edo101 said:
I would but I don't know another phone that has a pen. THe pen alone has been the one saving grace for me. I'm a very disorganized guy, ESPECIALLY PAPER and being able to have all my notes in one place has been really convenient. But I don't know, I would like to find a way to get forums to get in contact with Sammy and get them to fix cameras.
BTW does anyone know if the note 2's camera is a better camera and if it would be worth it to return the Note 3 for a Note 2.
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Yes, It has an 8MP camera on it and its a brilliant camera, Its actually better than the S3, especially in low light. As an amateur photographer, I understand that 13MP dont mean squat.. 8MP cams are better.. less MPs for it to process.. I used to own a Note 2 and I loved it. The photos were truely amazing and Sammy have had a few years to iron out the bugs.. so it works beautifully and smooth.. nice fast shutter speeds with reasonable low light.. oh and the speaker on the back is fantastic and loud, with a rich sound from the wolfson DAC, plus the screen on the Note 2 isnt crappy Pentile either.
Its a great phone and you wont be dissapointed.
EDIT:
Yep I know, but reviewers all do that, its amazing what a new free phone will do to grease a reviewers wheels. I tend to watch independent YouTube reviewers, theres a few honest ones around if you look for them. There seems to be an obession that bigger is better, and in the terms of Camera MPx.. No its not.. trust me,. Look at the HTC One 4 Ultra Pixel.. Its fantastic, the Note 2 is a great phone and its cheap now. Go for it
Good luck

note 2 camera is I can tell for sure at least 40% better than the note 3 camera in low light... that's my personal experience

NightOrchid said:
Yes, It has an 8MP camera on it and its a brilliant camera, Its actually better than the S3, especially in low light. As an amateur photographer, I understand that 13MP dont mean squat.. 8MP cams are better.. less MPs for it to process.. I used to own a Note 2 and I loved it. The photos were truely amazing and Sammy have had a few years to iron out the bugs.. so it works beautifully and smooth.. nice fast shutter speeds with reasonable low light.. oh and the speaker on the back is fantastic and loud, with a rich sound from the wolfson DAC, plus the screen on the Note 2 isnt crappy Pentile either.
Its a great phone and you wont be dissapointed.
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So I suppose the question now is, is it worth going back to the Note 2 for despite the other advancements in hardware?
With Note 2, do the native updates give it some of the more useful features of the Note 3?

edo101 said:
So I suppose the question now is, is it worth going back to the Note 2 for despite the other advancements in hardware?
With Note 2, do the native updates give it some of the more useful features of the Note 3?
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Click to collapse
Now that I cant say, sorry. I know the Note 2 did get some added updates from the Note 3 OS, but due to the half-baked flaky bullsh*t OS that samsung, LG and other devs keep giving us "Out of the Box" with their bug ridden, faulty, un-tested devices from a lazy QA depatment over and over again.. I gave up on latest Android new release devices and went to Nokia WP8, but thats just me
And yet we keep buying these faulty release day Android devices.
---------- Post added at 04:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:13 AM ----------
NeoDJW said:
note 2 camera is I can tell for sure at least 40% better than the note 3 camera in low light... that's my personal experience
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Agreed , Its a great camera.

NightOrchid said:
Now that I cant say, sorry. I know the Note 2 did get some added updates from the Note 3 OS, but due to the half-baked flaky bullsh*t OS that samsung, LG and other devs keep giving us "Out of the Box" with their bug ridden, faulty, un-tested devices from a lazy QA depatment over and over again.. I gave up on latest Android new release devices and went to Nokia WP8, but thats just me
And yet we keep buying these faulty release day Android devices.
---------- Post added at 04:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:13 AM ----------
Agreed , Its a great camera.
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Hmm I guess you wouldn't know which one has a wider camera view?

edo101 said:
Hmm I guess you wouldn't know which one has a wider camera view?
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How do you mean by wider camera view?, are you talking about how much of the picture you take is in a single frame? or do you mean aperture?
The note 2 has an f2.6 aperture lens where as the Note 3 has a wider f2.2 aperture lens, meaning on paper, the Note 3 should let in more light, however, due to the huge number of 13Milion pixels compared to the less crowded 8Million, the aperture size may not matter here.
Also the Note 2 and Note 3 both have a digital zoom, meaning it expands the actual pixels themselves, not the image like a better Optical zoom, but they both have O.I.S and both have panorama shot for expanded images.
EDIT:
You mean as in how much you see through the viewfinder on the screen.. I think the Note 2 is the wider view, but Im not sure someone else reading this may know though
Hope that helps

edo101 said:
I would but I don't know another phone that has a pen. THe pen alone has been the one saving grace for me. I'm a very disorganized guy, ESPECIALLY PAPER and being able to have all my notes in one place has been really convenient. But I don't know, I would like to find a way to get forums to get in contact with Sammy and get them to fix cameras.
BTW does anyone know if the note 2's camera is a better camera and if it would be worth it to return the Note 3 for a Note 2
WHat makes me angry is that most reviewers swear the Note 3 camera is godly. Well not at all in low light
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Click to collapse
AFAIK, the pen functionality in the Note 3 is better.
The camera on the note 2 sounds like a winner...
I guess you need to choose. Since it is only dark in so many situations, I would err on the better specs and forward thinking of the note 3 in terms of android trim, better specs, and future updates.
A $80 point and shoot will do even better than a note 2.

NightOrchid said:
How do you mean by wider camera view?, are you talking about how much of the picture you take is in a single frame? or do you mean aperture?
The note 2 has an f2.6 aperture lens where as the Note 3 has a wider f2.2 aperture lens, meaning on paper, the Note 3 should let in more light, however, due to the huge number of 13Milion pixels compared to the less crowded 8Million, the aperture size may not matter here.
Also the Note 2 and Note 3 both have a digital zoom, meaning it expands the actual pixels themselves, not the image like a better Optical zoom, but they both have O.I.S and both have panorama shot for expanded images.
EDIT:
You mean as in how much you see through the viewfinder on the screen.. I think the Note 2 is the wider view, but Im not sure someone else reading this may know though
Hope that helps
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If you can get a wider picture from the Note 2. Note 3 seemed to have a narrow wide angle. (so lets say Note 2 was 16:9, Note 3 would be 16:11) thats what I mean. you can capture more area with the Note 2 camera

Photographer's perspective on the LG G3

These topics have been widely discussed, I just find this funny. I do professional photography, and I thought this phone would be great for me. Not only could I show off my photos on a glorious 2k screen, but it was supposed to have a great off-duty camera as well. Ironically, it's instead hitting some photographer pet peeves real bad.
1) The screen sharpening is bad. I see amateur photographers get over enthusiastic on sharpening, cause the sharper the better, right? No, you make ugly artifacts like halos. Now my entire phone does it nonstop. It hurts! This goes beyond the font issue that's widely been talked about. I love viewing photos through my Nexus 7 or HTC M7 because it's like looking through a window. Photos on the G3 just look artifical.
2) Another is the camera noise reduction. Noise is bad, so let's crank the noise reduction. No, some grain and more detail is much preferable to pics that look like watercolors.
3) I knew this one going in, but as the Andantech review pointed out, the color accuracy is bad. I can spend time editing a photo on my phone and paste it to Facebook, just to realize once I'm viewing on a pc that the pic looks nothing like my meticulous edit. Great.
I know I'm hypersensitive to these issues because of my profession. My wife didn't notice the sharpening. But it's funny that what I thought would be my ideal phone is such the opposite.

supposedmonster said:
3) I knew this one going in, but as the Andantech review pointed out, the color accuracy is bad. I can spend time editing a photo on my phone and paste it to Facebook, just to realize once I'm viewing on a pc that the pic looks nothing like my meticulously edit. Great.
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How long ago was last time you calibrated your PC monitor? Does your monitor have sRGB mode? And, BTW, maybe you even use some notebook with cheap junky TN panel in the first place? :laugh:

I use an ASUS PA246 wide gamut monitor regularly calibrated with a Colormunki Display, so yes, I have a good benchmark.
Sent from my LG-D851 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

supposedmonster said:
so yes, I have a good benchmark.
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Glad for you, well then did you try to compare pix from the net to view both on monitor and on G3 and compare colors? Like I did
Check that topic also, maybe you bought G3 with blueish panel

Man this was not an easy shot to pull off. It's hard to tell from the pic, but LG is on the left and Nexus 7 is on the bottom. The LG would equate to quite a few notches of saturation boost in Lightroom.
This photo doesn't quite show it well, but the Nexus is actually slightly less saturated than the calibrated monitor.
The colors aren't that bad in either devices (I mean you can only expect so much, I get these aren't meant to be crazy calibrated panels), but I'd rather edit on the Nexus and find them slightly more vibrant on other devices than on the LG and find it decidedly dull.
Sent from my LG-D851 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

Haha, well my camera has WiFi. When in on vacation it's fun being able to post professional quality pics to social media from my phone.
Sent from my LG-D851 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

The G3 display can be somewhat manually adjusted in color contrast, did you tweak it a bit? Maybe it'll improve.

Thanks, I have read about that. Without being able to use a preview image to calibrate I think it'd drive me crazy. Plus I doubt it'll help because it seems to only adjust color and contrast, not saturation, which is the bigger issue.
What bugs me more though is the sharpening, but I have faith that'll be fixed either by LG or the community since enough people have raised a hallaboo.
Sent from my LG-D851 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

I can live with the screen sharpening (since it's all software and don't affect the photos themselves). I can also live with so-so color reproduction. But gawd, that NR pisses me off. What's the point of having a good sensor when you're gonna mess up the photos with mediocre processing. That being said... photos still look pretty decent in good lighting ;P

supposedmonster said:
These topics have been widely discussed, I just find this funny. I do professional photography, and I thought this phone would be great for me. Not only could I show off my photos on a glorious 2k screen, but it was supposed to have a great off-duty camera as well. Ironically, it's instead hitting some photographer pet peeves real bad.
1) The screen sharpening is bad. I see amateur photographers get over enthusiastic on sharpening, cause the sharper the better, right? No, you make ugly artifacts like halos. Now my entire phone does it nonstop. It hurts! This goes beyond the font issue that's widely been talked about. I love viewing photos through my Nexus 7 or HTC M7 because it's like looking through a window. Photos on the G3 just look artifical.
2) Another is the camera noise reduction. Noise is bad, so let's crank the noise reduction. No, some grain and more detail is much preferable to pics that look like watercolors.
3) I knew this one going in, but as the Andantech review pointed out, the color accuracy is bad. I can spend time editing a photo on my phone and paste it to Facebook, just to realize once I'm viewing on a pc that the pic looks nothing like my meticulous edit. Great.
I know I'm hypersensitive to these issues because of my profession. My wife didn't notice the sharpening. But it's funny that what I thought would be my ideal phone is such the opposite.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am sorry but you have me totally confused.......
I agree the G3 does have over sharpening which depending on how and what you shoot can have detrimental effects on the scene shot.
However, why on earth are you getting so annoyed with what is in effect simply a smartphone camera sensor?
Although I do not take photos as a profession I have however owned a camera since... Hang on a second......1963. Throughout time I learned many various methods and art in photography, travelling the world shooting all manner of photos with compacts and SLR's to the more recent DSLR and smartphone.
Yet, there is no way on earth would I take a professional shot with a smartphone nor would I expect it to achieve something which could be of use in a professional manner.
I do apologies but it does annoy me when I hear from someone first stating they are a 'professional' and use this word as their basis for a debate.
If you have an issue with the G3, fine I can live with that as you are very much correct, certain aspects of the software could be improved but let us not forget.
1. It is a smartphone.
2. It is software which means if you do not like the camera app that controls the shooting then use a different camera app.
I personally use the app 'A Better Camera' which is excellent.
I am sure as a professional photographer you must have heard of this app and learned the author is not just another coder but does have an understanding of photography.
With 'A Better Camera' as your tool you will find first it gives you back the manual controls and second it then allows you to be as creative as a smartphone will allow you.
Having said all this I have never ever ever been happy letting the camera dictate the shot but the G3 is the first type of camera that I am happy shooting 'casual photography' in auto mode.

Beards said:
I am sorry but you have me totally confused.......
I agree the G3 does have over sharpening which depending on how and what you shoot can have detrimental effects on the scene shot.
However, why on earth are you getting so annoyed with what is in effect simply a smartphone camera sensor?
Although I do not take photos as a profession I have however owned a camera since... Hang on a second......1963. Throughout time I learned many various methods and art in photography, travelling the world shooting all manner of photos with compacts and SLR's to the more recent DSLR and smartphone.
Yet, there is no way on earth would I take a professional shot with a smartphone nor would I expect it to achieve something which could be of use in a professional manner.
I do apologies but it does annoy me when I hear from someone first stating they are a 'professional' and use this word as their basis for a debate.
If you have an issue with the G3, fine I can live with that as you are very much correct, certain aspects of the software could be improved but let us not forget.
1. It is a smartphone.
2. It is software which means if you do not like the camera app that controls the shooting then use a different camera app.
I personally use the app 'A Better Camera' which is excellent.
I am sure as a professional photographer you must have heard of this app and learned the author is not just another coder but does have an understanding of photography.
With 'A Better Camera' as your tool you will find first it gives you back the manual controls and second it then allows you to be as creative as a smartphone will allow you.
Having said all this I have never ever ever been happy letting the camera dictate the shot but the G3 is the first type of camera that I am happy shooting 'casual photography' in auto mode.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Speaking of which, is it possible to set long exposure (for night shots with a tripod, for example) with A Better Camera? Other than the automatic "Night Shot"...

fabripav said:
Speaking of which, is it possible to set long exposure (for night shots with a tripod, for example) with A Better Camera? Other than the automatic "Night Shot"...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not presently...... But note, this is not the problem with the G3 or A Better Camera.
It is Android or should I say Google who limited the speed to just under 1sec.
However, under Android L all will change as among the 400+ camera api's introduced camera speed is one of them. So 'hopefully' developers will raise to the challenge and add this vital missing setting.

Beards said:
Not presently...... But note, this is not the problem with the G3 or A Better Camera.
It is Android or should I say Google who limited the speed to just under 1sec.
However, under Android L all will change as among the 400+ camera api's introduced camera speed is one of them. So 'hopefully' developers will raise to the challenge and add this vital missing setting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, can't wait for that update for many reasons, camera included.
It's weird though that the Oppo Find 7 camera (for example) has a shutter speed that goes up to 32 seconds. How did they manage to make it avalaible? The sensor is a simple Sony IMX214.
I wonder if all the features of Camera FV-5 work on the G3, anyone tried it yet? (my G3 has yet to arrive)

fabripav said:
Yeah, can't wait for that update for many reasons, camera included.
It's weird though that the Oppo Find 7 camera (for example) has a shutter speed that goes up to 32 seconds. How did they manage to make it avalaible? The sensor is a simple Sony IMX214.
I wonder if all the features of Camera FV-5 work on the G3, anyone tried it yet? (my G3 has yet to arrive)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Oppo Find 7's camera doesn't actually keep the lens open for 32 seconds, it does a trick similar to what Camera FV-5 does in that it takes a series of shots from a thumbnail (hence why it's small and lacks any detail).
Re your query on Camera FV-5 ~ everything with the exception of ISO works. With ISO the dials say it has altered ISO but when you take the shot you find it has altered nothing.
A Better Camera on the other hand does alter the settings and does apply them to the shot.
It's the only app out there which utilises all the manual controls that are open to write permission, this also includes AE and WB Lock which again no other camera app uses.

[/COLOR]
fabripav said:
Yeah, can't wait for that update for many reasons, camera included.
It's weird though that the Oppo Find 7 camera (for example) has a shutter speed that goes up to 32 seconds. How did they manage to make it avalaible? The sensor is a simple Sony IMX214.
I wonder if all the features of Camera FV-5 work on the G3, anyone tried it yet? (my G3 has yet to arrive)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it does. I haven't tried the long exposure in FV-5 though.
Beards said:
Re your query on Camera FV-5 ~ everything with the exception of ISO works. With ISO the dials say it has altered ISO but when you take the shot you find it has altered nothing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Camera FV-5's ISO setting works fine for me.
ISO 100 1/60 F/2.4
http://i1.minus.com/iMbhMmPuhI3Es.JPG
ISO 1600 1/680 F/2.4
http://i7.minus.com/iNJO0u9CN5xvf.JPG
I'm a photographer (;P). I know what I'm talking about.

You have the D851 which is Tmob.. which doesnt have the sharpening effect.. at least anecdotally. same model i have and theres zero sharpening going on. the colors mind you are off, but its no galaxy S4 or G2.. but as was stated dont plan to edit on your phone and you wont be frustrated by using the wrong tool for the job.
dont bring a 400mm telephoto zoom to a job that requires a 35mm prime or vice versa.

Itaintrite said:
[/COLOR]
Yes it does. I haven't tried the long exposure in FV-5 though.
Camera FV-5's ISO setting works fine for me.
ISO 100 1/60 F/2.4
http://i1.minus.com/iMbhMmPuhI3Es.JPG
ISO 1600 1/680 F/2.4
http://i7.minus.com/iNJO0u9CN5xvf.JPG
I'm a photographer (;P). I know what I'm talking about.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really...... Thank you.
When was the App last updated?

Beards said:
Really...... Thank you.
When was the App last updated?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm using v1.7.3. Updated June 27th.

Itaintrite said:
I'm using v1.7.3. Updated June 27th.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great... I'll give it another go against A Better Camera; although ABC does have many more controls.

Droid Turbo Review.

The phone has some slick features like the Moto voice services where you can wake up the phone with your custom voice command with the phone being up to 5ft away from you. It also detects when you are at home, work, in a car or sleep and automatically changes behavior of apps based on where you are. The home screen widget is nice too, it gives you up to the minute weather details and lets you know how soon it'll rain or snow down to the minute. The battery life is amazing, once you leave the house you never have to worry about using a charger for the rest of the day.
Now those are all great but the good ends there with me. The camera was subpar and all weekend I was out at events and parties and I wish I had my Note 3 with me to take pics. A lot of the pics came out blurry, the eyes on people where white devilish looking. The call quality sucked too, I had the volume as high as it can go and unless you are in a completely silent room you will have a hard time hearing. I went to the gym and had my beats headphones in and volume to the max and I could still hear the gym radio. There's no notification light on the front of the phone, this to me is a huge disappointment. I use the Lightflow app and i have a different color light for every notification and it comes in handy when you want to know what type of notification is awaiting for you without touching the phone.
I will be returning the phone this week and going back to using my Note 3 while I wait for the Nexus 6 or Galaxy Note Edge to come out.
Pros - Great battery life, premium metal feel, home screen widget, lock screen notifications look nice, Moto voice services.
Cons - Screen isn't too bright, low ear piece volume, low volume with headphones, poor camera, kind of slippery in hand, no notification light, no removable battery, no expandable memory.

Good review. I agree with all of it.

antjones21 said:
The phone has some slick features like the Moto voice services where you can wake up the phone with your custom voice command with the phone being up to 5ft away from you. It also detects when you are at home, work, in a car or sleep and automatically changes behavior of apps based on where you are. The home screen widget is nice too, it gives you up to the minute weather details and lets you know how soon it'll rain or snow down to the minute. The battery life is amazing, once you leave the house you never have to worry about using a charger for the rest of the day.
Now those are all great but the good ends there with me. The camera was subpar and all weekend I was out at events and parties and I wish I had my Note 3 with me to take pics. A lot of the pics came out blurry, the eyes on people where white devilish looking. The call quality sucked too, I had the volume as high as it can go and unless you are in a completely silent room you will have a hard time hearing. I went to the gym and had my beats headphones in and volume to the max and I could still hear the gym radio. There's no notification light on the front of the phone, this to me is a huge disappointment. I use the Lightflow app and i have a different color light for every notification and it comes in handy when you want to know what type of notification is awaiting for you without touching the phone.
I will be returning the phone this week and going back to using my Note 3 while I wait for the Nexus 6 or Galaxy Note Edge to come out.
Pros - Great battery life, premium metal feel, home screen widget, lock screen notifications look nice, Moto voice services.
Cons - Screen isn't too bright, low ear piece volume, low volume with headphones, poor camera, kind of slippery in hand, no notification light, no removable battery, no expandable memory.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure what your problems are with the camera... I have an S5 and Turbo tends to take better pictures in most situations by far, especially in low light. It's not the cameras fault that you can't hold it steady when taking a photo...
I think your only valid complaint would be the LED notifications. Which if you did any research at all before buying the device, you would of known before purchase it did not have. Everything else can and most likely will be addressed soon. The storage complaint is old, 32GB is fair & they offer 64GB at a competitive price that no one else is really matching.
Go have fun with TouchWiz & Samsung plastic I guess.

Go into settings, sound, and audio effects. Disable the equalizer. Everything will sound miles better.
Camera is kinda slow though, I'm with you on that.

Andromjb said:
Not sure what your problems are with the camera... I have an S5 and Turbo tends to take better pictures in most situations by far, especially in low light.
I think your only valid complaint would be the LED notification, which if you did any research at all before buying the device, you would of known before purchase. Everything else can and most likely will be fixed relatively soon.
Go have fun with TouchWiz I guess.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol wow, you act like my review was about you. I'm going to post a few pics and you tell me if they are great or not. I've seen other post where people had to tweak settings etc but my Note 3 took way better pics. Even when I use Snapchat the focus seems slow and delayed. It seems like you have to as still as a statue to take a good pic and that's not always an option. And as far as the notification light issue, I just figured that was standard. Even if I knew it wasn't there it's still a negative against the phone.

Here are some pics from my Note 3

antjones21 said:
Here are some pics from my Note 3
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no offense but I don't think it's the camera...you're just bad at taking pictures

antjones21 said:
Lol wow, you act like my review was about you. I'm going to post a few pics and you tell me if they are great or not. I've seen other post where people had to tweak settings etc but my Note 3 took way better pics. Even when I use Snapchat the focus seems slow and delayed. It seems like you have to as still as a statue to take a good pic and that's not always an option. And as far as the notification light issue, I just figured that was standard. Even if I knew it wasn't there it's still a negative against the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nah. I just think a lot of the comments around here are quite silly towards this phone. It's like people went and purchased the phone without even doing any research and expected it to be better than anything on the market.
I agree, those pictures are quite bad. However, it's not purely because of the camera itself.
For one, you are using 15.5 MP 16:9 and not the full 21MP 4:3, which tends to produce a much better picture. Secondly, you are most likely just randomly snapping without even selecting a proper focus exposure. The pictures are blurry in most cases because of the low light situation, you probably have HDR enable for some reason and the fact you don't have a steady hand while taking the picture does not help. Third, I notice flash in most every shot, which on any smartphone will tend to produce a horrible picture.
You just point and shoot. So your pictures are bound to be bad.

tehmanmuffin said:
no offense but I don't think it's the camera...you're just bad at taking pictures
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Funny I knew that would be your comeback, but I had other people take pics when I wanted to be in the pic and they turned out bad. And when I take pics with my Note 3, people always say how they look great and even better than iPhone 5/5s.
The camera is slow on the Turbo and I'm not the only one to say that.

antjones21 said:
Funny I knew that would be your comeback, but I had other people take pics when I wanted to be in the pic and they turned out bad. And when I take pics with my Note 3, people always say how they look great and even better than iPhone 5/5s.
The camera is slow on the Turbo and I'm not the only one to say that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That wasn't even me, some random guy. But he is right regardless.
At least you have taste, nice Moto 360.
---------- Post added at 04:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:14 AM ----------
Reason I do not agree with you on the camera -- here are some of the shots I took day one
http://imgur.com/a/NMd58
http://imgur.com/a/MQK0o
Unfortunately I don't have any more I have taken yet due to work. But the camera is fine.
Also see the samples here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/awmaxham/sets/72157648649197199/

antjones21 said:
Funny I knew that would be your comeback, but I had other people take pics when I wanted to be in the pic and they turned out bad. And when I take pics with my Note 3, people always say how they look great and even better than iPhone 5/5s.
The camera is slow on the Turbo and I'm not the only one to say that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have the note 3 and i kinda agree with you on the camera stuff... but I think your just too used to the really good quality camera on the note 3.

I completely agree with the OP, the Turbo produces mediocre pictures compared to other flagship phones. Landscape photos in particular lack detail.
FYI, taking photos in 16:9 format is what most people do, not everyone wants 4:3 photos.
Sent from my Droid Turbo

I'm actually pleased with the camera quality. Just not the shutter speed. It could be a tad faster.

geoff5093 said:
Landscape photos in particular lack detail.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Huh? Small Pic is cropped from larger. You can almost read the numbers on the gauge. That photo was taken yesterday through the glass on the doors which probably degraded the image slightly also.

There's like 5 guys (not the OP really, I think he's new) posting over all the forum about how "mediocre" everything about the Droid Turbo is, changed the tone to negative in this section. They know who they are. It's an exclusive device with a locked bootloader so it's a small part of XDA, 5 butthurt guys can make a lot of noise.

Jay Evans said:
Huh? Small Pic is cropped from larger. You can almost read the numbers on the gauge. That photo was taken yesterday through the glass on the doors which probably degraded the image slightly also.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's what I'm talking about, close up photos seem to be great, it's really lacking in the distance area such as landscapes.
Just to show you where I'm coming from, this was my G3. I know it's not a fair comparison since they are different photos, but I've found the Turbo to really lack in the landscape photo department. Up close photos are great.

geoff5093 said:
Just to show you where I'm coming from, this was my G3. I know it's not a fair comparison since they are different photos, but I've found the Turbo to really lack in the landscape photo department. Up close photos are great.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What you see there is because of very Low light situations. Low light means a slow stutter speed and any movement (trees or camera) will degrade the image dramatically. I can't really comment on Turbos performance in low light because I haven't tested it yet. But it's ability to capture fine detail is there.

I had sort of assumed that the Droid Turbo has active notifications like the Moto X. Is that not the case? It makes an LED redundant.

Jay Evans said:
What you see there is because of very Low light situations. Low light means a slow stutter speed and any movement (trees or camera) will degrade the image dramatically. I can't really comment on Turbos performance in low light because I haven't tested it yet. But it's ability to capture fine detail is there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm aware of that, here is another low-light scenario.
Turbo:
G3:

geoff5093 said:
I'm aware of that, here is another low-light scenario.
Turbo:
G3:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Um, ya. I personally think the Turbo took the better picture here. For instance, I can't even make out Toshiba on your G3 picture. Much more clear/crisp on the Turbo. Not to mention your G3 sample is fairly over exposed & extremely warm in color. But both pictures are relatively bad due to settings and hard to really use as a comparison. Unless you are comparing just a simple pull out of pocket point and shoot.
Your other shots (above) seem to just be point and shoot as well and not necessarily focus exposed or any effort really put into them (I could be wrong). You are also taking a lot of shots pointed/aimed in direct sunlight/sunset which will put out pretty poor quality pictures in general anyway.
Stop posting bad situations and try something that will actually yield a decent photo for comparison. The shots you are taking are really more aimed towards a more high end sensor.
In general you are expecting way too much out of a camera phone in most of your situations.
My 2¢

HTC One M9 Camera discussion (not for photo samples)

Albert Poon said:
May I ask you guys with M9 to take pics using manual mode? A tripod, phone holder, low ISO, long explosure to take some night views?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This was missing in the flickr album. Long exposure 1/4, 1/2 or 1s shots. And please use flickr so we can see exifs easily. board attachments and imgur strip exifs out. I notice the phonearena samples have no exifs in them at all.
Though i have to say i like this one. Just enough silhouette to set the mood.
ISO 80 and 1/40 WHAT!!! for late afternoon Seattle in winter. I can't tell if its HDR or not.
---------- Post added at 09:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:43 PM ----------
xxquicksh0txx said:
https://plus.google.com/10388377056...6126393456474303042&oid=103883770561517758752 Link to the beetle picture on his Google+ with a resolution of 1108 x 625. Definitely cropped/compressed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Taken with VSCO cam, ISO 50, 1/268. So ample light.
Also used flash. Sharpness is set to soft.
A nice photo.
---------- Post added at 09:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:17 PM ----------
vegetaleb said:
Here a comparison of crop between M9 and Note 4 in not very low light conditions taken by the Tweakers review, you can clearly see the superiority of the Note 4 in the details like the logos of Goodyear and the wheel:
I know it's not final software but this M9 camera is giving the same results the SE C905 could give 6 years ago
M9
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
Note 4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Note 4 is ISO 400, 1/10
M9 is ISO 640, 1/14
About half a f-stop difference.
What if the M9 tried to get that with ISO 300 ie ISO 200 +0.3 at 1/7 ? or go slower still ISO100+0.3 at 1/3 ? can't do these tricks with the note, slowest it will get is 1/8 and then its auto night mode kicks in which did not happen in this picture. S5 & note 4 have improved their low light capability over their predecessors in auto but i bet you can come close to matching it if not exceeding it with manual on m9.
Light in this shot is quite low btw.

th3 said:
This obsession is what makes every product better in every field, than its predecessor.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That pair is not as important as you think it is and that applies for all with good light.
Where this 'trounces' occurs is in low light. I've already said what needs to be done.
Without this obsession, there can be no better or worse product, and you'll still be saying "good enough" to the HTC Desire camera
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
with macros yeah i would because there is no difference there. I've seen three year old devices do excellent macros. Hint: macros are not a good demonstration of what the latest camera can do.
The only real innovation we've had in sensors is BSI over the last two years. More sensitive in low light. You couldn't do that with 2013 devices, m7 was the sole exception. The rest is processing, how much of it or lack thereof.
On a more general level the trick with these devices is to know when to compromise and when to be maximalist. There is no perfect device so what you end up with is what you can tolerate over what you cannot do without. Every device has this trade off. Unfortunately you are alone with making this decision. Unless you are lucky to find others whose requirements match yours closely. Now do you see why i said minor. its minor in a larger context.
What you're saying... 'Moving the goalpost' it's called. Common trick.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no tricks. calling it straight.
i don't trust auto.That on some devices its always flawless is a myth. auto goes wrong even on dslrs. what will you do then ? blame the device or your own ignorance. better to understand why and what went wrong and then fix it. and you can.
What i'm sensing here is an unwillingness to do so. That is something else.
Your opinion is not supported by the data we all have.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That does not make what i said wrong. Its up to people here to provide that data. particularly low light with manual.
Its right because i've seen the same done with numerous devices already. This is how cameras work. They need light.
Give them that and you get a good shot. simple.
---------- Post added at 10:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:14 AM ----------
tryfound said:
No, your whole post is invalid. I'm testing AUTO, feel free to grace us all with your superior photography skills when you get your M9.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
actually i should have said your tests were pointless and it was a waste of my time to go through them. test the note 4 in low light with manual in m9 that's what you should have done.
I wanted to see manual being used in the low light. You've got no excuses when the camera provides it. If you can't do that then its your problem not the m9.
bad auto does not mean bad camera. bad auto will be fixed. The Z1 took 3 months to get it right. What did people do, the lamers whined whereas the rest got busy with manual and got good shots from day 1.
make up your mind or sell.
---------- Post added at 10:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:19 AM ----------
vegetaleb said:
At last a camera comparison between M9 and Note4 http://www.phonearena.com/reviews/HTC-One-M9-vs-Samsung-Galaxy-Note-4_id3963/page/3
In daylight the Note 4 is significantly better, the M9 will smudge
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Show me smudge in daylight, i want to see how much. actually link the shots.
In low light even resized to 640x480 the M9 is very blurry and smudgy, the Note 4 is millions years ahead.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All the low light shots have the m9 using high iso in guess what auto. The reviewer did not even try manual and blurred one of the shots because he could not hold a 1/7.
Conclusion: unless you want to use your photos only from daylight situations and only resized to Facebook and other social medias (of course no crop at all) . you should consider the Note 4 as a very good choice of camera phone in every situations.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you realise that to display on a HD device you only need 1MP or on a full HD it only takes 2MP. Anything more than that gets resampled.
You don't let facebook or anybody else resize it you do it yourself then upload wherever.

tryfound said:
You're so full of yourself. How dare I waste your precious time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Look, you're not helping me, i'm helping you to help yourself as well as others in this thread.
Make up my mind or sell? Sell what? Some people here asked to see comparisons with the Note 4 and I gave them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And i'm pointing out why there were inadequate. They do not add anything above what reviews are saying.
I did not bother going through the imgur stuff since there are no exifs to see there. Assessing image quality let alone commenting without exifs is pointless.
To suggest that I should be tweaking manual settings on an M9 to achieve the quality of the Note 4's auto shots is beyond comprehension.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
auto shots are average x average, is this what people base their opinions on ?
manual means you take a test auto shot then see whether you can improve it in manual. That is how you will exceed what the reviews have shown and we get to see the best this camera can do. This is what any owner that wants to improve and exploit manual is going to do over time.
Why someone would not want to improve his shots is beyond my comprehension.

tryfound said:
Some more shots with the M9, large res then small res second. Had to use imgur because of filesize so these are compressed images, don't bother zooming for details, some of the higher res images I took have been reduced to a size smaller than the 'small' res images due to their original filesize, I guess that's imgur's way of compressing.
http://imgur.com/PeWfBMx
http://imgur.com/CNrpmW7
http://imgur.com/fOi00v3
http://imgur.com/dMQ1yXV
http://imgur.com/JmvdebB
http://imgur.com/MnF3Fue
http://imgur.com/2AtDjvr (HDR)
http://imgur.com/mP0g0aP (HDR)
http://imgur.com/NApwPvt
http://imgur.com/U8yHyuV
http://imgur.com/i04j8vr
http://imgur.com/1FPUAw7
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I just looked at images and they look really good. I am surprised M9 managed to capture that pristine detail I never seen before. White balance too looks so great not like previously green tint that was all over images.
One thing I am not able to find is camera data in adobe bridge and also colour space is untagged. That usually happens when photo being stripped of exif data. Have you by any chance gave some editing to them?
Thanks

I agree with a pack that camera should perform to the best on auto. If it doesn't , software has to be optimised if it's not then it's engineers faults Or hardware limitations.
it applies to the majority of the smartphone photographers . People want point and shoot.Even being enthusiast photographer and love digging my camera and phone camera I hate when auto underperforms when I simply want to take my phone out of the pocket and shoot.Every enthusiast can tweak but that defeats AUTO purpose .
There are average performers good and very good. Unfortunately M9 is not very good.Good ? Maybe....if light is favourable...at the moment it is consistently weak in certain situations. The usual wash out reminded me of the spill that when lets say camera lens gets in the studio shot or outside and for this purpose hood is used . This is one of the speculations I come up with. Somehow HTC phones consistently suffer from that. Could be they have same team of engineers that can't find the key to successful Software optimization or not so decent hardware just guessing here. Being visualphile that particular trade off with HTC devices just kills me.

nebulaoperator said:
I agree with a pack that camera should perform to the best on auto. If it doesn't , software has to be optimised if it's not then it's engineers faults Or hardware limitations.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
.
I've seen this issue with other devices. xperias camera software was never quite ready at launch. Lots of bashing. Took them a few months to get it right. Mostly auto. Then shots come out with lower ISO which you could have got yourself if you tried. Image quality is better now. why ? iso is lower. So if auto is taking high iso then low iso will get you a better shot.
So when people say camera is not working its auto. No other issues i can see so far. They will fix it but in the mean time if manual settings are tweaked you will get the results you want today. Most do not know how to do that or worse do not want to.
it applies to the majority of the smartphone photographers . People want point and shoot.Even being enthusiast photographer and love digging my camera and phone camera I hate when auto underperforms when I simply want to take my phone out of the pocket and shoot.Every enthusiast can tweak but that defeats AUTO purpose .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
General advice i give to people who cant take photos is go with the koreans or apple. if you want more then look at others.
First time i came across an iphone camera after seeing the usual controls in nokias and android was wtf do i do with this. Some shots can't be got with auto. when there is no access to manual then you are stuck. take it or leave it. its only a phone camera, you're not supposed to do anything more. Who said so ?
Many people take shots and figuring out who is at fault is a tricky business. Of course the tendency is to blame the device but the person taking the shot is the most responsible, always.
There are average performers good and very good. Unfortunately M9 is not very good.Good ? Maybe....if light is favourable...at the moment it is consistently weak in certain situations.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Low light with auto. From what i've seen consistently boosts auto up. There are even night modes which to date i've not seen anybody even try. HELLO!
So auto is not picking these modes for some reason. Its a bug. But if you set it yourself then what is the result. Much better i bet.
The usual wash out reminded me of the spill that when lets say camera lens gets in the studio shot or outside and for this purpose hood is used .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A lens hood decreases lens flare and saturates colours. Take a shot in shade of a sunny area. If you're getting lens flare then its clearly user error. Not just with this device but with any. I would just use my hand out of camera to block some of the light or avoid unwanted reflections. Here is a good example
https://www.flickr.com/photos/palmsolo/sets/72157651089646798/with/16274675233/
cloudy day, massive light box in the sky. Colours are all rich. Which is best. i cannot tell
interestingly enough the low end devices suffer less from this problem because the sensors are not as sensitive. They can take good shots in awful bright light which would be washed out with more capable sensors. Not much use indoors though.
This is one of the speculations I come up with. Somehow HTC phones consistently suffer from that. Could be they have same team of engineers that can't find the key to successful Software optimization or not so decent hardware just guessing here. Being visualphile that particular trade off with HTC devices just kills me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The ones typically from what i've seen blow out the sky. They are a little more quirky in getting those blue skies. Overexposed. HDR is one way to do it but it can be tricked also. i remember this work around from the m8 forum where this guy pointed close to the sun to lock exposure and then recomposed back on the scene. The picture was remarkably better. You don't have to do this all the time only in certain situations.

Review on bunch of cameras.
Gizmodo: The Best Smartphone Camera: Samsung Galaxy S6 Edition. http://google.com/newsstand/s/CBIw4ZO08yA

tryfound said:
Some more shots with the M9, large res then small res second. Had to use imgur because of filesize so these are compressed images, don't bother zooming for details, some of the higher res images I took have been reduced to a size smaller than the 'small' res images due to their original filesize, I guess that's imgur's way of compressing.
http://imgur.com/PeWfBMx
http://imgur.com/CNrpmW7
http://imgur.com/fOi00v3
http://imgur.com/dMQ1yXV
http://imgur.com/JmvdebB
http://imgur.com/MnF3Fue
http://imgur.com/2AtDjvr (HDR)
http://imgur.com/mP0g0aP (HDR)
http://imgur.com/NApwPvt
http://imgur.com/U8yHyuV
http://imgur.com/i04j8vr
http://imgur.com/1FPUAw7
Click to expand...
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jauhien said:
Some yesterday snaps here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/we88grvt72bldy8/4PDA_REQUEST.zip?dl=0
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Click to collapse
One Twelve said:
.
Disclaimer: I should learn how to use quotes.
I've seen this issue with other devices. xperias camera software was never quite ready at launch. Lots of bashing. Took them a few months to get it right. Mostly auto. Then shots come out with lower ISO which you could have got yourself if you tried. Image quality is better now. why ? iso is lower. So if auto is taking high iso then low iso will get you a better shot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Whether it's ISO OIS or else it does not stop camera to perform well. Take A look at Iphone 6 it works wonders. Low light is not on the par with M7 m8. The thing you have to understand , strongly camera orientated phone should not come with a sticker on the box " want a better image use manual"
[/QUOTE]So when people say camera is not working its auto. No other issues i can see so far. They will fix it but in the mean time if manual settings are tweaked you will get the results you want today. Most do not know how to do that or worse do not want to.[/QUOTE]
A lot people say because AUTO doesn't work. Why would I have buy "they will fix it" if I pay 500-600 GBP for a phone. It doesn't work like that. And in most cases software improved performance but only to a point .I own M7 and know it's weaknesses.And I don't want to use manual though I know my phone from inside to outside.
[/QUOTE]General advice i give to people who cant take photos is go with the koreans or apple. if you want more then look at others.
First time i came across an iphone camera after seeing the usual controls in nokias and android was wtf do i do with this. Some shots can't be got with auto. when there is no access to manual then you are stuck. take it or leave it. its only a phone camera, you're not supposed to do anything more. Who said so ?
Many people take shots and figuring out who is at fault is a tricky business. Of course the tendency is to blame the device but the person taking the shot is the most responsible, always.[/QUOTE]
I saw ifone users don't even know AE/AF lock exist till I showed. Iphone 6 has the simplest UI that can be invented I also call it Dummy proof. I think you can get an app to have access to tweaks option otherwise it's a bit limited to my taste. I can blame phone camera without long hesitation for two reasons: if hardware sucks or software or both. Then no amount of tweaks can help you. M7 is notorious for washouts, poor dynamic range. I found HDR was never a strong suite of M7 neither M8 or M9. However if you can tweak settings you might get away bringing images to photoshop. That's what I do. On the other hand only minority people are enthusiast like we are and the majority should be at least faulted for what smartphone manufacturer didn't do in the first place. If iphone , nokia, samsung(from 2014) proved there is a lot more that can be done with camera.
[/QUOTE]Low light with auto. From what i've seen consistently boosts auto up. There are even night modes which to date i've not seen anybody even try. HELLO!
So auto is not picking these modes for some reason. Its a bug. But if you set it yourself then what is the result. Much better i bet.[/QUOTE]
Low light was nevera weak spot for HTC One line(until now M9) it was cloudy weather condition with little contrast, also situation when I have half frame window in and the other half room. It would go into extremes overexpose the light in the window or underexposedarks barely visible. Sensor and software is not coping with dynamic range. I kind of like night mode but found it to slow in some situation due to the shutter speed so I just used normal mode it did great though. I wish I could try RAW mode but unfortunately I am selling my phone today ( Not sure if RAW will be brought to lollipop for M7)
[/QUOTE]A lens hood decreases lens flare and saturates colours. Take a shot in shade of a sunny area. If you're getting lens flare then its clearly user error. Not just with this device but with any. I would just use my hand out of camera to block some of the light or avoid unwanted reflections. Here is a good example
https://www.flickr.com/photos/palmsolo/sets/72157651089646798/with/16274675233/
cloudy day, massive light box in the sky. Colours are all rich. Which is best. i cannot tell
interestingly enough the low end devices suffer less from this problem because the sensors are not as sensitive. They can take good shots in awful bright light which would be washed out with more capable sensors. Not much use indoors though.[/QUOTE]
I worked with photographer who used hood for the headshots and it was game changer.
For instance Iphone6 is least prone to that error but most Android camera phones I came across are. I was surprised by Note 4 results and S6 I would never think they can do so well. So it must be bug or hardware or both as I mentioned earlier. Nice photos from M9 but WB is somehow a bit off sometimes on the blue side( couple of weeks before it was to yellow green Funny enough you are the first I came across that used hand to block the light I do that too. I guess we both come from the same/similar trade.
[/QUOTE]
The ones typically from what i've seen blow out the sky. They are a little more quirky in getting those blue skies. Overexposed. HDR is one way to do it but it can be tricked also. i remember this work around from the m8 forum where this guy pointed close to the sun to lock exposure and then recomposed back on the scene. The picture was remarkably better. You don't have to do this all the time only in certain situations.[/QUOTE]
AE/AF is a very handy tool. I am glad smartphones have this simple yet very effective feature.

Quadrider10 said:
Review on bunch of cameras.
Gizmodo: The Best Smartphone Camera: Samsung Galaxy S6 Edition. http://google.com/newsstand/s/CBIw4ZO08yA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't think the M9 looked bad. Need to use a computer instead of my note 4
Sent from a mobile gadget...
---------- Post added at 05:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:52 PM ----------
And guys, chill out. I don't think M9 will have the best camera, but it will hopefully be enough. What I'm worried about is the speed of the camera and SOT. I will probably buy it anyway because I love HTCs mix.
Sent from a mobile gadget...

You're not helping anyone mate. Pig with lipstick is still a pig. No matter how much spin you are putting on it.
Everything you are saying is your subjective opinion not backed by any reviewer or already debunked. No data at all.
I don't see any fruit in continuing this back and forth "I think" or "you can do this in software" discussion with you. I, and 99% of users, only care about how the product performs out of the box. A few may go further, with manual. That's it.
Lame apologist excuses don't hide that. If you can do x with M9, you can also do better with S6/iP6/N4 etc starting from a better base.
I'll have the M9 31st March. Then, we'll see.
One Twelve said:
Look, you're not helping me, i'm helping you to help yourself as well as others in this thread.
And i'm pointing out why there were inadequate. They do not add anything above what reviews are saying.
I did not bother going through the imgur stuff since there are no exifs to see there. Assessing image quality let alone commenting without exifs is pointless.
auto shots are average x average, is this what people base their opinions on ?
manual means you take a test auto shot then see whether you can improve it in manual. That is how you will exceed what the reviews have shown and we get to see the best this camera can do. This is what any owner that wants to improve and exploit manual is going to do over time.
Why someone would not want to improve his shots is beyond my comprehension.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One Twelve said:
That pair is not as important as you think it is and that applies for all with good light.
Where this 'trounces' occurs is in low light. I've already said what needs to be done.
with macros yeah i would because there is no difference there. I've seen three year old devices do excellent macros. Hint: macros are not a good demonstration of what the latest camera can do.
The only real innovation we've had in sensors is BSI over the last two years. More sensitive in low light. You couldn't do that with 2013 devices, m7 was the sole exception. The rest is processing, how much of it or lack thereof.
On a more general level the trick with these devices is to know when to compromise and when to be maximalist. There is no perfect device so what you end up with is what you can tolerate over what you cannot do without. Every device has this trade off. Unfortunately you are alone with making this decision. Unless you are lucky to find others whose requirements match yours closely. Now do you see why i said minor. its minor in a larger context.
no tricks. calling it straight.
i don't trust auto.That on some devices its always flawless is a myth. auto goes wrong even on dslrs. what will you do then ? blame the device or your own ignorance. better to understand why and what went wrong and then fix it. and you can.
What i'm sensing here is an unwillingness to do so. That is something else.
That does not make what i said wrong. Its up to people here to provide that data. particularly low light with manual.
Its right because i've seen the same done with numerous devices already. This is how cameras work. They need light.
Give them that and you get a good shot. simple.
---------- Post added at 10:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:14 AM ----------
actually i should have said your tests were pointless and it was a waste of my time to go through them. test the note 4 in low light with manual in m9 that's what you should have done.
I wanted to see manual being used in the low light. You've got no excuses when the camera provides it. If you can't do that then its your problem not the m9.
bad auto does not mean bad camera. bad auto will be fixed. The Z1 took 3 months to get it right. What did people do, the lamers whined whereas the rest got busy with manual and got good shots from day 1.
make up your mind or sell.
---------- Post added at 10:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:19 AM ----------
Show me smudge in daylight, i want to see how much. actually link the shots.
All the low light shots have the m9 using high iso in guess what auto. The reviewer did not even try manual and blurred one of the shots because he could not hold a 1/7.
Do you realise that to display on a HD device you only need 1MP or on a full HD it only takes 2MP. Anything more than that gets resampled.
You don't let facebook or anybody else resize it you do it yourself then upload wherever.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent using Tapatalk

th3 said:
You're not helping anyone mate. Pig with lipstick is still a pig. No matter how much spin you are putting on it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Went right to the end for the punchline
I'll have the M9 31st March. Then, we'll see.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hah so despite the s6 camera 'trouncing' the m9, you actually went in for what ? .....<drum roll>....the M9 <applause>
Confirms what i said earlier, the image quality differences weren't enough to deter you.
Lame apologist excuses don't hide that. If you can do x with M9, you can also do better with S6/iP6/N4 etc starting from a better base.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah so why didn't you get one of them then ? riiiiightt. Why the narrow obsessions with image quality somehow don't pan out in the end. Bigger forces at play.
With ip6+ and 3rd party camera with manual controls. you can improve over stock auto. With the same on the iP6 or even iP5x and a steady hand you can come close if not match the plus.
S6 & N4 or even the G3 don't offer shutter speed control so there is no way to tell how effective their OIS is, its just stated and i believe its there but no way to tell like say with the iP6+ that can do a 1/4 handheld. Night mode on the recent samsungs is good. Much improved over earlier versions. They boosting sensor gain and fiddling around. To get a similar shot would require an exposure two times longer with other devices including the m9. So you will have to work at it.
No idea when raw support will come for the above. But i bet you get it on the m9 before them. Your details issues will disappear at that point but you have to process each image yourself.
Everything you are saying is your subjective opinion not backed by any reviewer or already debunked. No data at all.
Click to expand...
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So you do not understand that delaying shutter and lowering iso will improve image quality in low light ? This applies only with stationary subjects btw, forget doing it with people or anything that won't sit still.
Sop with any camera that allows manual control, i can show you manual lumia 930 vs note 4 where it gets pretty close and auto did not. When more people post later you'll see what i mean.
I'm most interested in the low light shots and rarely bother with daylight comparisons because they are pretty similar. In fact my problem with smartphone cameras is too much detail strange as that may sound. because it makes isolating subjects harder. Everything is so damn clear. Because its the equivalent of an f11 lens in 35mm speak. Depth of field is deeper. Great for macros but not others.
I don't see any fruit in continuing this back and forth "I think" or "you can do this in software" discussion with you. I, and 99% of users, only care about how the product performs out of the box. A few may go further, with manual. That's it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you want better photos what i said works. 99% or not is meaningless. This is xda, do 99 % care about rooting, custom firmwares, or any number of hacks people share here ? So what 99% are you referring to and why do they matter. If anything i'm more interested in the 1%.
what i've said wrt to manual is no different. In fact its common knowledge to anyone who has a clue.
---------- Post added at 04:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:01 AM ----------
*Emix* said:
https://curved.de/news/galaxy-s6-one-m9-iphone-6-im-grossen-kameravergleich-236192
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Click to collapse
Why they didn't use iP6+ ?
1. night shots all soft because iso got boosted on m9. 2nd shot wrong wb for m9. 4th shot all have blown lights, cannot do this without blending.
2. again iso got boosted on m9. second selfie, because background is brighter so iso drops and looks normal.
3. is about where you set exposure.
4. macros are similar. contrast can be improved in post.
5. panoramas, heh all not to my liking because of cylindrical projection. no straight horizontals with such a wide fov.
6. food, can be improved in post or use manual. That ISO is maybe close to 600 try to get it at half.

curiousgeorge1893 said:
Not quite on topic but I've got an M8 coming, I'm ditching my Xperia Z2 for it, is that a good idea do you think?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What is it about the Z2 that you don't like ? You'd be trading fantastic video stabilisation for none.
The scene modes should help in low light if you use them right. However the lack of shutter control can be frustrating. A quick tweak can't be done. More trial & error.
I was put off by the 4MP camera as i admit I like to zoom and crop, however I like a phone that is good in lowlight.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What does 4MP do ? sharpens the mind. You have to think more carefully about what you want to get it right. If you want to zoom & crop then you need to be closer to your subject. if you can't do that then 4MP is out.
Also, I like a phone that offers manual controls and shutter speed, HTC phones are the only ones that do this plus a like a phone that has a good flash and takes photos quickly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
m8 is a fast shooter in auto. But this gap has been closed with the S6 and the S5 is fast too. Have you considered them ? No shutter control though. Given what they've done may or may not be that critical. These samsungs are primarily auto shooters. If they get what you want great, if not don't complain because you can't do much.
As for similar manual controls the hybrid zooms had them first and optical zoom is a plus. crop in camera not afterwards. K zoom or wait for the successor. Slower though. And apertures are smaller. 3.1 all the way to 6.3. Working OIS.
I was planning on getting a secondhand M9 later in the year but to be honest I am disappointed as I feel that HTC have go fowards then 2 steps backwards with the M9 camera. Whilst it's great it has a higher resolution, the f/2.0 aperature in the M7 and M8 is now f/2.2 on the M9, in my opinion it should have been f/2.0 or f/1.9, also lack of OIS is disappointing and it seems lowlight on the M9 isn't as good as the M8? Very disappointing if so.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The difference between f2.0 and 2.2 is a quarter a f-stop. That's like getting a shot at ISO 200 instead of 250. Or 1/50 instead of 1/40. Its insignficant as one or the other parameter will compensate anyway so not really as notable as reviewers make out.
However the m9 isn't as fast a camera as its predecessors.See the camera speed benchmark. Almost twice as slow as the m8. And the Z2 is faster than the m9. Does this matter ? only if you're rushed. And if you are you're not going to get very good shots to begin with. Is the choice no shot or passable. In that case look at an advanced compact with a 1 inch sensor. Much more light, faster lens and better quality. For the same money.

BoneXDA said:
I do notice the white balance shifting sometimes on the goldish side around sunlit areas, and the M9 tends to underexpose in such conditions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've noticed twice that it gets confused with halogen and neon lights, turning cream and red into green. With a yellow i can see how green can happen by wb adding blue, so just need to use a fluorescent wb or more. But cream into green is inexplicable for me. If its a bug then only a firmware update can fix it.
---------- Post added at 08:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:25 PM ----------
curiousgeorge1893 said:
I like the Z2 but not the post processing, it smudges details, I read on here that the Z3 does the same?
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Click to collapse
Whenever camera has to produce a jpg and do it fast it has to make a call between preserving detail (ie more noise) or smoothness (less noise). I've seen smudging happen with vegetation, it happens with all jpg outputting devices to varying degrees. To make larger features look good means smaller are going to appear less sharp. Must have the lowest ISO with a longer shutter that means anything that moves is out unless light is good or smudging gets worse.
Only way is raw but you have to process every image yourself, and its a much bigger file so it will be slower than 4mp jpg.
Compare these two from nexus 5. Jpg vs processed RAW. Pull the full resolution and pixel peep all you want.
The originals come from fv5 site.
You control what should be more in detail or not instead of some average one size fits all algorithm with an impossible task that is optimised for speed by trading off image quality. Image quality here isn't file size but a function of how much luminance and chroma noise is preserved or not.
That algorithm and its implementation is the source of lots of heated argument over which is the better camera. Silly really.

SPreston2001 said:
The whole camera comparison may be silly, but 90% of users just want to pick up the phone and snap good pics. Most users don't fiddle around with the camera settings or even know what they do for that matter lol. All they see are which photos look the best when they pick up their phone and take a pic. The M9 camera seems to be alot better than the M8s camera but it still tends to fall behind Apples and Samsungs imaging abilities.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then those people should stick with the brands mentioned. Those brands are for people with no interest in photography. WHAT took the shot is more important than WHO took it. That is the mindset auto everything encourages, what did the owner do, just press a button. Still I would not be surprised to find people even on those boards complaining about something or the other.
Where i'm coming from is what if you don't want those brands for whatever reasons. What then ?
You wait for firmware upgrades and you learn how to get better shots. What went wrong and how to get around it.
My attitude is you are stuck with this thing and you are going to have to make the best of it. Few months later you will find people here doing just that. A review can never match it.

One Twelve said:
Then those people should stick with the brands mentioned. Those brands are for people with no interest in photography. WHAT took the shot is more important than WHO took it. That is the mindset auto everything encourages, what did the owner do, just press a button. Still I would not be surprised to find people even on those boards complaining about something or the other.
Where i'm coming from is what if you don't want those brands for whatever reasons. What then ?
You wait for firmware upgrades and you learn how to get better shots. What went wrong and how to get around it.
My attitude is you are stuck with this thing and you are going to have to make the best of it. Few months later you will find people here doing just that. A review can never match it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So HTC phones are for people who have interest in photography?? Lol they usually have the worst cameras amongst flagship devices yet theyre for photography minded people?? You act as of HTC is the only manufacturer that has the ability to tweak the camera settings. Most "serious" photographers won't use a cellphone to take a pic. The whole idea of cell cams is to capture quick and beautiful everyday life pictures. The ability to tweak the settings is just a added bonus for those who want to get a little more serious with it.
But to each his own I guess. When it comes to cell cams I just wanna pull it, out take a pic, and expect it to look good. If tweaking the settings to get the perfect shot is for you then that's fine. But all I'm saying is those same things can be done with other manufacturers cams too.

gavinfabl said:
This is a photos thread. We need photos! The weather for another day is gales and heavy rain here, so ruined my planned day of shooting again. Using manual settings I have captured some good shots (but private photos of family). Lowering resolution down a fraction helps in lower light. Auto is OK but when I take control even with a single tweak the difference is noticeable. I've used the S6 and S6 Edge and compared it with my Note 4. The S6 has a good auto mode.
This is my S6 and S6 Edge camera shots , and vs Note 4 camera. http://gavinsgadgets.com/2015/03/19...sung-galaxy-s6-and-s6-edge-plus-camera-shots/
I will have more in depth analysis when it's stops raining .....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can't say my experience with the s6 / edge was similar. On the camera front yes the camera is fast. But I found a huge issue with white balance and somewhat heavier than normal post processing (pretty evident when you look at the photos on a camera). The problem is even in pro mode, the camera still struggles with white balance. I am a white balance whore to be honest and when I see a camera struggle, I shudder.
Touchwiz lagged for me. Immensely. I kept flicking through the homescreen, not many widgets above the stock ones, and there were multiple times the device just locked up. Even after rebooting the device quite a few times, there was lag. Off topic, I watched the verge podcast recently and they also affirmed a lot of the lag I experienced with my model.
So far, I'm semi disappointed. The devices are light (like physically, I expected something much heavier). The GS6 felt boxy and somewhat sharper for my tastes while the Edge just "fit" in my hand like a really nice glove. I was stunned that the edge was the more interesting feeling device. Both devices are fingerprint magnets though almost to the point of being disgusting. After 10 minutes of handling, I was in awe with the amount of smudges and oil the back of the device accrued from general handling.
Handling is something that the Edge excels in for the most part. It feels "natural" to swipe at an edge point and get a hamburg menu from Google. And you do in GMAIL, Google Play, and a myriad of other areas. It just feels like touchwiz didn't necessarily provide too many gesture driven tasks that would really take benefit of the edge display. II mean sure you get the call context menus and the light up gimmick, but that's about it sadly. The shame of it all is that above that, the GS6 is a beautiful iphone 5-5s ripoff and the Edge is something of a quagmire begging for a developer to put it to good use. It can be obtrusive but not so much to the point it ruins the user experience.
Overall, I'm left somewhat underwhelmed with the devices. Sure, the screen is gorgeous with marvelous viewing angle fitting for a flagship. But it feels like the GS6 / edge is a iterative step in a unique and bold direction that didn't fully deliver.
Shame actually. Most people will love the GS6 / Edge. Me, I'll be forever disappoint

SPreston2001 said:
So HTC phones are for people who have interest in photography??
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Click to collapse
What purpose is there to provide manual controls then ? nokia started this btw.
Lol they usually have the worst cameras amongst flagship devices yet theyre for photography minded people??
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its a mindset that comes naturally to those that are into photography. They are going to try a great deal more before throwing in the towel.
Very obvious when i see Jesse's photos. You make the shot not the camera. newbies whenever they see a nice photo always want to know what camera took the shot. The person, well he just clicked. How hard could it be. They like to hide behind their cameras. Often i see shots that are horribly taken and well it was the camera's fault.
HTC is a bad camera with people who cannot take a photo. I've never bought into the 4MP was bad. A full HD screen can only display 2MP anyway. if you're not zooming or need to then you're focus is on how nice the shot looks rather than whether you can count hairs on somebody's head. I've seen people post nice photos here. if you need to crop your photos then you ain't thinking about your shots or your use case exceeds what 4MP can provide.
You act as of HTC is the only manufacturer that has the ability to tweak the camera settings.
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lets be clear on what manual settings i'm referring to here. Who else offers shutter speed control ?
apple only woke up to the fact in their latest OS. prior to which you could do squat cos um turtle neck deemed it unecessary. Nokia had them early and the cheapest lumias 635 ? do too. samsungs don't not even in their latest. neither does moto, or LG which went backwards with the G3 or Sony. The Chinese provide some more. So yeah HTC since the m8 was the only android offering on a fixed focal lens that offered shutter control. Makes it easy to fix things if you were so inclined. Samsung's galaxy camera is the only other that can claim to have had it first on android earlier and its a compact.
Most "serious" photographers won't use a cellphone to take a pic. The whole idea of cell cams is to capture quick and beautiful everyday life pictures. The ability to tweak the settings is just a added bonus for those who want to get a little more serious with it.
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A cam is a cam and you can learn photography with any cam and play more with one that allows manual settings. I don't have a DSLR because i've not got to the point where i need one. I take shots every day and i like to tweak them because auto cant get it right. Its very normal to have access if not always necessary. But i'd rather have them and not need them than the other way around.
If you drive a stick shift you won't enjoy driving a cruiser.
But to each his own I guess. When it comes to cell cams I just wanna pull it, out take a pic, and expect it to look good. If tweaking the settings to get the perfect shot is for you then that's fine. But all I'm saying is those same things can be done with other manufacturers cams too.
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I never expect it to look good, if it does then conditions were perfect and i was lucky, i will usually take a auto shot and if it fine leave it at that or try to tweak things about and take a couple more. I always try to take more than one. A phone is going to get thrown into so many varied situations that would challenge a pro. To expect to get it right in one take with a phone camera when pointing at anything you can think of isn't realistic.

nebulaoperator said:
Whether it's ISO OIS or else it does not stop camera to perform well. Take A look at Iphone 6 it works wonders. Low light is not on the par with M7 m8. The thing you have to understand , strongly camera orientated phone should not come with a sticker on the box " want a better image use manual"
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A tweak here or there will always improve a shot. How many people know that. Then there is the question of will. if its there and you don't use it then its not the camera's fault. It is there for flexibility.
iphone 6 no, but 6+ will get shots at 1/4. Apple thinks slower than 1/12 is not feasible for iP6. To go slower than 1/4 have to use 3rd party soft to tweak things. iphone camera has always been capable but until ios8 there was no way to access camera parameters so low light was never good.
I saw ifone users don't even know AE/AF lock exist till I showed. Iphone 6 has the simplest UI that can be invented I also call it Dummy proof. I think you can get an app to have access to tweaks option otherwise it's a bit limited to my taste.
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yes its useful there is also a way to do some exposure comp but it changes metering to spot from average or whatever apple equivalent is. A review was comparing 6 & 6+ and saying photos looked better with 6+ until i saw the exifs and pointed out both were using different metering. So of course shots will look different.
With the latest ios you have much more options than before. Curious apple did a u turn there. But not stock just with 3rd party software.
A lot people say because AUTO doesn't work. Why would I have buy "they will fix it" if I pay 500-600 GBP for a phone. It doesn't work like that. And in most cases software improved performance but only to a point .
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So wait for a few months then decide. As for firmware improvements. If you take a shot with firmware a at ISO 200 and compare with firmware b at ISO 200, there will be little difference.
What i mean is they can lower ISO for lower light shots so it does not boost it so high. This will improve auto some. But to go further it requires manual. Possible now, if somebody would try.
They can improve white balance with auto but it will get tricked some times so only up to a point.
I can blame phone camera without long hesitation for two reasons: if hardware sucks or software or both. Then no amount of tweaks can help you. M7 is notorious for washouts, poor dynamic range. I found HDR was never a strong suite of M7 neither M8 or M9. However if you can tweak settings you might get away bringing images to photoshop. That's what I do. On the other hand only minority people are enthusiast like we are and the majority should be at least faulted for what smartphone manufacturer didn't do in the first place. If iphone , nokia, samsung(from 2014) proved there is a lot more that can be done with camera.
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They are trying to make it easy for the average person in the hope of selling more products. The traditional way is to learn how to use the product. I know the washouts you mean, blown skies etc. But once a person is aware of that you can improve it.
Low light was nevera weak spot for HTC One line(until now M9) it was cloudy weather condition with little contrast, also situation when I have half frame window in and the other half room. It would go into extremes overexpose the light in the window or underexposedarks barely visible. Sensor and software is not coping with dynamic range. I kind of like night mode but found it to slow in some situation due to the shutter speed so I just used normal mode it did great though. I wish I could try RAW mode but unfortunately I am selling my phone today ( Not sure if RAW will be brought to lollipop for M7)
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So what are you getting ?
freedcam can already output raw on m7 & m8 and by the looks of it m9 too. htc made this easy.
I worked with photographer who used hood for the headshots and it was game changer.
For instance Iphone6 is least prone to that error but most Android camera phones I came across are. I was surprised by Note 4 results and S6 I would never think they can do so well. So it must be bug or hardware or both as I mentioned earlier. Nice photos from M9 but WB is somehow a bit off sometimes on the blue side( couple of weeks before it was to yellow green Funny enough you are the first I came across that used hand to block the light I do that too. I guess we both come from the same/similar trade.
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It was an accidental discovery. I was taking shot of somebody outside the house from inside with a tab (!) and wondered why the clothes were so saturated.
There is something up with the m9's WB i can see from numerous photos. But nobody is trying manual to fix it.
Was looking at latest world press photo contest. Many with pro dslrs and i saw one person entered an iphone photo and its in the list of winners. Out of 95k entries !!! smartphone photo..Can you believe it

Lol this thread is very entertaining to say the least

twoeleven99 said:
Lol this thread is very entertaining to say the least
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So what's your take on the M9 pictures, if I may ask?
Sent using Tapatalk

camera tips

Coming from the note 7, I've gotten used to setting it on auto, taking a pic, and getting great pictures... Something I'm not seeing with the v20.
Any tips or settings that may help?
Low light pics area slow to focus and results are so so.
Pictures of moving people even in medium light are blurred

I'll try to write something up later. How much photo experience do you have? How much digital photo knowledge base do you have? (So I know what starting point to use. Photography is a lot of art meets science. It's probably one of the better examples of a right and left brain balance.)

Hmm..I knowthat shutter speed and aperture go together. How they let more more light in by opening longer or wider.
I've tried taking pictures using auto and manual (no change in any settings)..and they come out similar. Except auto seems to do a better job auto focusing.

There's a setting buried in the menu to help with tracking. Make sure you have that on. Aperture is locked down on cellphones so you only really get to play with shutter speed and ISO. Unfortunately, as ISO goes up, so does the noise coming off the sensor. So you really have to balance getting a shutter speed that's just fast enough without getting too crazy with the ISO. This will apply to all cellphones no matter what anyone tries to tell you. (And this is why the pros will always shoot with full frame DSLR's. Much larger sensor, better noise handling, can really crank up the ISO with little ill effect.)
If you're getting blurring motion, you need a faster shutter speed which means higher ISO..... or...... you can practice the old school way and get a cool effect by practicing tracking your subject by hand. I practiced with my DSLR by tracking swallows and dragonflies in flight. For a phone, I think kids running around is about the equivalent. It's difficult but highly rewarding once you get it.
Light, and lots of it, will be your friend on small sensors like these. Cranking up the ISO for darker situations means one of two things will happen. A) You will get a lot of noise from the gain applied to the signal coming off of the sensor. Depending on the quality of the noise coming off of it, this can either be bad or good. For a while, Nikon was known for having a noise quality at higher ISO's that made for excellent B&W's. I'm actually investigating that with this camera as I think it has potential. B) Aggressive noise reduction is applied to the image and it butter faces the heck out of an image and turns it all water color. I have to zoom in way too far than one should before I see this happening. So it looks like noise reduction is being applied on a smaller scale which leaves better detail and might be why I'm seeing an agreeable noise profile. A few more test shots are needed though.
I will note that this all applies to the main shooting assembly (the 16mp f1.8 sensor). The wide shooting assembly is a smaller sensor and the aperture is a smaller f2.4. So it'll require a higher ISO for the same shutter speed and it's going to be noisier shot for shot no matter what and it isn't as nice of a noise profile as the main sensor.

Camera very disappointing. My G3 takes far more better pictures than this. Do you think any software updates could improve on the quality?

justthefacts said:
Camera very disappointing. My G3 takes far more better pictures than this. Do you think any software updates could improve on the quality?
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They could, maybe. Depends. What are you disappointed in exactly?

Auto mode. It sucks. 2 generation old note4 can take far better pictures on auto. LG has the chops to make a great camera so wtf happened on this $800 phone?

@rbiter said:
Auto mode. It sucks. 2 generation old note4 can take far better pictures on auto. LG has the chops to make a great camera so wtf happened on this $800 phone?
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Manual mode. Manual mode happened and it's pretty damn good. A bit more manual control would make it great. (Let me decide when image stabilization is on, for instance.) This phone wasn't really about auto. That's what the Pixel is about to every degree. The V20 is about people who want to have more control over their content creation without getting too overboard.

CHH2 said:
Manual mode. Manual mode happened and it's pretty damn good. A bit more manual control would make it great. (Let me decide when image stabilization is on, for instance.) This phone wasn't really about auto. That's what the Pixel is about to every degree. The V20 is about people who want to have more control over their content creation without getting too overboard.
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I don't mind that. It's just auto can Bork up a picture real quick. Picking the right focus point helps with light situations a lot but still auto should be more decent out of the box. Why? Because half the rest you need to take the shot right away. Manual is fine and not too much complaints about it besides the voice trigger turning itself off all the time. If the manual mode was terrible too I'd pro a lot have returned the phone already. Manual, the audio, battery life, swappable battery and reception help make up for auto's inconsistency.

CHH2 said:
Manual mode. Manual mode happened and it's pretty damn good. A bit more manual control would make it great. (Let me decide when image stabilization is on, for instance.) This phone wasn't really about auto. That's what the Pixel is about to every degree. The V20 is about people who want to have more control over their content creation without getting too overboard.
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I want more control over the content of my phone but yet. I can not root my phone on Sprint.[emoji35]
Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk

@rbiter said:
I don't mind that. It's just auto can Bork up a picture real quick. Picking the right focus point helps with light situations a lot but still auto should be more decent out of the box. Why? Because half the rest you need to take the shot right away. Manual is fine and not too much complaints about it besides the voice trigger turning itself off all the time. If the manual mode was terrible too I'd pro a lot have returned the phone already. Manual, the audio, battery life, swappable battery and reception help make up for auto's inconsistency.
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Auto is consistent. You just have to understand what's going on. I was really hoping that auto would have EV adjustment so we could change the bias of the exposure. The camera wants to expose a little bright to help control noise that you'll get from a small sensor. I'll take a bit of noise for a darker exposure. So to that end, I'll probably shoot manual. All I really need to do is set a minimum shutter speed and adjust ISO from there when I open the camera. That can all occur pretty fast.
jamice4u said:
I want more control over the content of my phone but yet. I can not root my phone on Sprint.[emoji35]
Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk
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Um, you don't need root for content control. A) Your complaint needs to be in the proper thread. This is about photo/video, not root. B) Sprint. (I live in their HQ city and see their CEO regularly at some of my favorite haunts. Don't expect any miracles from Sprint. It's a top down issue.)

My opinion, the camera as a hardware is good, however, LG needs to upgrade the camera app, specially with auto mood, this coming from a user that have used Samsung for a very long time, and now very disappointing with LG camera
i hope LG is reading this, and can push that kind of update soon..

Amjad.AbdulGhani said:
My opinion, the camera as a hardware is good, however, LG needs to upgrade the camera app, specially with auto mood, this coming from a user that have used Samsung for a very long time, and now very disappointing with LG camera
i hope LG is reading this, and can push that kind of update soon..
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I agree. I came from the note 3 and i was taking side by side and the note 3 was taking better pics! Not sure if there's an issue with my v20 but ilI'lll be returning it today. Not impressed at all

CHH2 said:
Auto is consistent. You just have to understand what's going on. I was really hoping that auto would have EV adjustment so we could change the bias of the exposure. The camera wants to expose a little bright to help control noise that you'll get from a small sensor. I'll take a bit of noise for a darker exposure. So to that end, I'll probably shoot manual. All I really need to do is set a minimum shutter speed and adjust ISO from there when I open the camera. That can all occur pretty fast.
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Auto is NOT consistent. With that being said, I've been getting better pictures, but still taking multiple pictures with different focal points to make sure I get at least one good pic of what I want. Auto works well sometimes, just needs consistency. Obviously the camera is capable of taking great pictures in almost any setting. Even low light. The hardest is when you have a very bright source of light somewhere and auto doesn't do well unless you find the right focal point, and that being where I have to take multiple pics the most. Manual can work too, but I'm not even an amateur photographer so I've been practicing to get better pictures with less adjusting. And by that I mean dialing it in less and getting the pic I want faster from practice and skill rather than paying around experimenting. It's been a learning curve for me and quite a few others. I'm quite sure a firmware update can help.
Also, I am used to my note 4 taking g great pics with auto. Also used to the extra sharpening. I've noticed the extra sharpening and do prefer more natural pictures like the lg or iPhones take. But otoh, many of my pictures at work benefit from the extra sharpening big time and kind of why I don't mind it. That extra sharpening is very very useful when magnification is needed at magnifying glass level and sometimes almost microscopic levels for very fine print, certain details on a board or power supply and especially both those reasons I'm very hard to reach places without taking everything apart.
With that being said, I also wish LG would add a toggle for sharpening when processing the pictures in auto and manual mode. Even though LG leans towards more natural pictures, a sharpen toggle would help a lot. I've just decided to keep using my v20 as a daily driver by a very slim margin. Miss my amoled and adblocking. Don't miss all the extra tweaking I had to do manually along with xposed to get my note4 the way I wanted. LG has caught up alot in their UI. It used to be terrible. But with the theme and some of the options I could live with root just to get adblocking. But when I do root I will be doing so.e tweaking g to get more battery life. And hopefully a kind developer will make a kernel with only voltage control enabled so I can under volt my CPU some.

The problem is the massive herd of Samsung users (I am one also) that were able to just point and shoot. The software did the all the work on the sammy phones. With the V20 we have to work a little to get a great picture. I noticed it today when taking a picture for of my receipts for the headphone deal.

@rbiter said:
Auto is NOT consistent. With that being said, I've been getting better pictures, but still taking multiple pictures with different focal points to make sure I get at least one good pic of what I want. Auto works well sometimes, just needs consistency. Obviously the camera is capable of taking great pictures in almost any setting. Even low light. The hardest is when you have a very bright source of light somewhere and auto doesn't do well unless you find the right focal point, and that being where I have to take multiple pics the most. Manual can work too, but I'm not even an amateur photographer so I've been practicing to get better pictures with less adjusting. And by that I mean dialing it in less and getting the pic I want faster from practice and skill rather than paying around experimenting. It's been a learning curve for me and quite a few others. I'm quite sure a firmware update can help.
Also, I am used to my note 4 taking g great pics with auto. Also used to the extra sharpening. I've noticed the extra sharpening and do prefer more natural pictures like the lg or iPhones take. But otoh, many of my pictures at work benefit from the extra sharpening big time and kind of why I don't mind it. That extra sharpening is very very useful when magnification is needed at magnifying glass level and sometimes almost microscopic levels for very fine print, certain details on a board or power supply and especially both those reasons I'm very hard to reach places without taking everything apart.
With that being said, I also wish LG would add a toggle for sharpening when processing the pictures in auto and manual mode. Even though LG leans towards more natural pictures, a sharpen toggle would help a lot. I've just decided to keep using my v20 as a daily driver by a very slim margin. Miss my amoled and adblocking. Don't miss all the extra tweaking I had to do manually along with xposed to get my note4 the way I wanted. LG has caught up alot in their UI. It used to be terrible. But with the theme and some of the options I could live with root just to get adblocking. But when I do root I will be doing so.e tweaking g to get more battery life. And hopefully a kind developer will make a kernel with only voltage control enabled so I can under volt my CPU some.
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It is pretty consistent, you just have to understand what it is consistently doing. It's just running a program like anything else. It doesn't do things on a wild hair. That said, if you want more sharpening, I highly suggest Snapseed. It's a free app after Google bought the parent company Nik. Nik makes some of the best plug-ins for professional editing of photos. This is probably one of the more powerful photo editing apps you can get on a phone. It even edits RAW photos from the V20.
Madelynn28 said:
The problem is the massive herd of Samsung users (I am one also) that were able to just point and shoot. The software did the all the work on the sammy phones. With the V20 we have to work a little to get a great picture. I noticed it today when taking a picture for of my receipts for the headphone deal.
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I guess since I do a lot of photo work, I'm used to the idea that no camera will ever spit out a shot that's perfect right out of the box, auto or not. (Not even the three Samsungs I owned, they needed just as much adjustment as any other phone.) All images out of a camera can and do need work. For me, I feel that I don't really need to do anything out of my ordinary workflow to get images I want with the V20. I'm actually really looking forward to capturing some more classic images with this phone that haven't been achievable in recent times by most sensors these days.

It gives you a lot more options but most people don't want that. Hell I don't even want that. If I am taking a picture with my phone it just needs to get the job done. Anything else I would be using my 80D. By the way thanks for understanding and decoding those terrible sentences I wrote.

Madelynn28 said:
It gives you a lot more options but most people don't want that. Hell I don't even want that. If I am taking a picture with my phone it just needs to get the job done. Anything else I would be using my 80D. By the way thanks for understanding and decoding those terrible sentences I wrote.
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That's the thing though, this phone is made for content creators, not for someone who wants to just shoot in auto all the time. That's what iPhones and Pixels are for, not this phone. This is for those who want and know how to control photo, video and audio creation. I've got full frame DSLRs, smaller mirrorless cameras but I also like to have control over my cellphone so this was a great step in my opinion.

That's fine, but a lot of people were forced here by the Note 7 blowing up. Android people don't want iPhones and not many people buy their phones outright (Pixel). When the top gun gets taken out it makes for a weird environment when people are forced to fill gaps with things they really don't want. There is the edge 7 but it's smaller and the edge screen was trash. Like I said it's a solid phone and is faster than the Note 7. It's just missing somethings I am used too.

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