Database Users

Interesting thread about Bell Vibrant issues

I guess following thread is a very good example of how civilized people deal with issues. Samsung is in question.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=883820
May be we need to start campaign about Froyo/Gingerbread using same tactics?
That was promised and a lot of hardware were bought because of this. Time to hold promises!
It's a little bit to late (because some variants are already got/getting Froyo), but there is a chance consolidate across all variants.

CNemo7539 said:
May be we need to start campaign about Froyo/Gingerbread using same tactics?
That was promised and a lot of hardware were bought because of this. Time to hold promises!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That thread is because of real failures on the device, rendering them unusable. Sorry, but you're a fool if you purchased a device because it might get an update, it's not Samsung's fault.
I'm getting a bit frustrated waiting for this update because there are things popping up that require Froyo, but some of these comments/threads on a number of forums are just silly.
By all means, make yourself heard, but the lack of Froyo doesn't render the device unusable.

Verizon will give it to us when they are satisfied with the build. A 1960's hippie movement will not get it here any faster.
I am fine with 2.1 myself.
good day.

J Shed said:
That thread is because of real failures on the device, rendering them unusable. Sorry, but you're a fool if you purchased a device because it might get an update, it's not Samsung's fault.
I'm getting a bit frustrated waiting for this update because there are things popping up that require Froyo, but some of these comments/threads on a number of forums are just silly.
By all means, make yourself heard, but the lack of Froyo doesn't render the device unusable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My phone USB failed few days ago. I have thread here, trying to get additional information if others have similar problems. That said VZ already send another one for free. I do not know yet if it is new or refarb.
What I think is that, promise is what it is. I didn't pushed them to promise anything. But, getting normal support for device is something I've assumed at the time of purchase phone + dock + other crap. Would I know that everything is so slow, I might got another phone. I think I'm not alone here.

CNemo7539 said:
My phone USB failed few days ago. I have thread here, trying to get additional information if others have similar problems. That said VZ already send another one for free. I do not know yet if it is new or refarb.
What I think is that, promise is what it is. I didn't pushed them to promise anything. But, getting normal support for device is something I've assumed at the time of purchase phone + dock + other crap. Would I know that everything is so slow, I might got another phone. I think I'm not alone here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They committed to releasing the update, they gave an estimated time frame for release, they didn't PROMISE anything. Froyo is coming, but the lack of it doesn't mean your phone doesn't work. Updates aren't normal support, they're updates. 2.2 is not required for the phone to function.
The funny thing is you're absolutely not alone (pretty sure I made that clear in my OP), it's just getting ridiculous some of the things people are demanding. It's not Samsung, nor Verizon's fault you purchased a device based on what it might be. That's your fault, period. I purchased this phone for what it was the day I got it, not for some dream land a few months down the road.

I feel about this a little bit differently, looking at the back of my phone dock. It has easy readable label saying that some functionality will be available when 2.2 update released. And it was promised SHORTLY. So shortly, that people found it OK to hold over 30 days grace period.
Overall I do not think it silly to expect something. I DO EXPECT that MS will patch Windows, Live etc. I DO EXPECT that HP, Dell and others update drivers. This practice exists for years now.
I do not know why it sounds funny when I expect that Samsung or VZ will fix GPS and other issues?
It is not that I'm screaming for update right now. But some clarity about situation will be greatly appreciated. Neither VZ nor Samsung didn't stepped down from their heights to inform us, mere mortals.

chopper the dog said:
A 1960's hippie movement will not get it here any faster.
good day.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What if you ARE a 1960's hippie though?
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App

CNemo7539 said:
It is not that I'm screaming for update right now. But some clarity about situation will be greatly appreciated. Neither VZ nor Samsung didn't stepped down from their heights to inform us, mere mortals.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is fair, but can you name companies that do this? Unfortunately it's very rare.
They can't give you a set ETA (software is such that you can't give out fixed dates until it's done), nor can they really tell you what they're working on/why it's delayed (would you really understand if they did tell you?). The best they could tell you is "we're working on it," and unless you live in a cave (or subscribe to one of the ridiculous conspiracy theories), you already know that.
And again, YOU deciding to hang onto the dock is your fault, not Samsung's. At 29 days, you could've strolled into the VZW store, and returned it. And again, they will release Froyo for the Verizon Samsung Fascinate. If they do not, they will be in real legal trouble because suddenly, you'd have a case for a class action lawsuit because of your dock.

J Shed said:
This is fair, but can you name companies that do this? Unfortunately it's very rare.
They can't give you a set ETA (software is such that you can't give out fixed dates until it's done), nor can they really tell you what they're working on/why it's delayed (would you really understand if they did tell you?). The best they could tell you is "we're working on it," and unless you live in a cave (or subscribe to one of the ridiculous conspiracy theories), you already know that.
And again, YOU deciding to hang onto the dock is your fault, not Samsung's. At 29 days, you could've strolled into the VZW store, and returned it. And again, they will release Froyo for the Verizon Samsung Fascinate. If they do not, they will be in real legal trouble because suddenly, you'd have a case for a class action lawsuit because of your dock.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Believe it or not, I'm in IT... And I tell you - there is always deadlines and dates are set in stone. Moreover, public beta will settle all worries. It is easy way to show to average public what company does and where it stays at the moment. That is how other companies handle same problems. MS with SP betas is good sample. Even secretive Apple does it!
I guess, we have a case for class action. I just wonder for how long we should wait before initiating it? As of now, we have a pretty good reason to believe that time for Froyo is gone, because Gingerbread is out and Samsung has it. Do you see my point?
As to return... Well, it not going to happen in the future. I'm going to stay away from Samsung products. Unfortunately I cannot leave VZ.

CNemo7539 said:
Believe it or not, I'm in IT... And I tell you - there is always deadlines and dates are set in stone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"IT" and software development are not the same thing.
Public beta works with basic software, and even some OSes, not with phones. You release a public beta that has a bug that can brick your phone, and you're screwed. It's MUCH more difficult to fix a bricked phone than it is to fix a desktop that won't boot properly.
You don't have a case, yet. If Samsung fails to deliver 2.2, then you will, not until then.

J Shed said:
"IT" and software development are not the same thing.
Public beta works with basic software, and even some OSes, not with phones. You release a public beta that has a bug that can brick your phone, and you're screwed. It's MUCH more difficult to fix a bricked phone than it is to fix a desktop that won't boot properly.
You don't have a case, yet. If Samsung fails to deliver 2.2, then you will, not until then.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No need to explain what exactly I do. It is development.
Go to Apple site and figure out how they deploy public betas for iOS. Nobody complains about broken phones. I never heard about this.
Hell!!! Film the video for youtube if not anything else! Show prototypes in the stores! Even this will be better then noting! Release official statement. Just do not sit like cat in the sand!
They simply are not willing to do anything, because they got their money already.
And could you please define "fails to deliver"? As far as I'm concerned they pretty much failed. Froyo was released and pulled off several times on other SGS phones. And they have Froyo on tab, which essentially same hardware. What is this?
Though I might consider it as showing progress ;-) Problem is that at such pace phone will physically pass out sooner then we get update.

Believe it or not, I am actually trying to get them into admitting that Froyo will not be released.
I got one rep who replied to say it, however, she doesn't know wtf she is talking about. Depending on their next few replies if whether I crack the email open and send it to the major blog sites.
I am trying to get someone who actually knows something to admit that 2.2 is not coming. We shall see. Past that, you are right, there is not a damn thing we can do until its determined that its NOT coming out.

J Shed said:
2.2 is not required for the phone to function.
It's not Samsung, nor Verizon's fault you purchased a device based on what it might be.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tell that to the hundreds of thousands who bought a cradle with a sticker on it saying "2.2 required for this to function".
Is that their fault they received a product which doesn't work as advertised, just to open the box up to a "gotch'ya!" sticker?
Is that somehow not Samsung nor Verizon's fault, too?
Sometimes I wonder how often people on here ever take responsibility, seeing as they are so quick to make excuses and attack those wronged. You would all do well in politics or customer service; Neither party holds anyone accountable for their false promises.

The problem is, until they admit that its not being released, they have us all on a technicality, that coming soon has no defined time frame. Leaked internal documents are likely not admissible in a lawsuit.
Its ****ty, its unethical, but it is what it is.
I am just as angry as well.

According the news, Samsung is going to introduce Galaxy S ancestor in Barcelona in February. So, I guess first Galaxy S lifespan is even shorter than I've expected. Sure, it is because was VZ was late to the game. Churning out new models at such pace doesn't leave time to support old ones.

Galaxy s is like lexus to toyota. It's just a line of phones from samsung which are high end.
Adrynalyne is right when he says that there is nothing that we can do but make them admit that nothing is coming out...

CNemo7539 said:
No need to explain what exactly I do. It is development.
Go to Apple site and figure out how they deploy public betas for iOS. Nobody complains about broken phones. I never heard about this.
Hell!!! Film the video for youtube if not anything else! Show prototypes in the stores! Even this will be better then noting! Release official statement. Just do not sit like cat in the sand!
They simply are not willing to do anything, because they got their money already.
And could you please define "fails to deliver"? As far as I'm concerned they pretty much failed. Froyo was released and pulled off several times on other SGS phones. And they have Froyo on tab, which essentially same hardware. What is this?
Though I might consider it as showing progress ;-) Problem is that at such pace phone will physically pass out sooner then we get update.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Funny you mention apple, and then in the same breath you talk about making phones obsolete.
Apple and Samsung are apples and oranges (lol). Apple has ONE phone (3 if you want to count the og, 3g, and 3gs, but those are mostly obsolete), Samsung has at least 4 or 5 in the US alone. Each on different networks, and with differing software setups (bloatware). How again are they going to ensure they don't start ****ing **** up if they push a public beta? Trust me, I'd LOVE if they did that, but it's an unrealistic expectation.
And "fails to deliver" means it doesn't come, at all, ever, period. When they admit to freezing development and NOT releasing anything past 2.1, then everyone who purchased a dock has a case for a class action lawsuit.
lowkee said:
Tell that to the hundreds of thousands who bought a cradle with a sticker on it saying "2.2 required for this to function".
Is that their fault they received a product which doesn't work as advertised, just to open the box up to a "gotch'ya!" sticker?
Is that somehow not Samsung nor Verizon's fault, too?
Sometimes I wonder how often people on here ever take responsibility, seeing as they are so quick to make excuses and attack those wronged. You would all do well in politics or customer service; Neither party holds anyone accountable for their false promises.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
Don't talk to me about accountability when you are so eager to blame someone else for your failure to return a product you weren't satisfied with. It's also your fault you decided to wait it out for Froyo.
You chose to wait, that's on you. So now it's a matter of you waiting for them to release 2.2+, or them to admit they won't release it.
I'm not defending anyone, I'm just tired of the stupid crap I'm seeing from people over this update. I didn't buy that dock because I think it's a piece of crap, regardless of the fact the 3.5mm jack doesn't work (which, BTW, sounds like it's the ONLY thing not working, it charges the phone, displays the dock program).

RacerXFD said:
Galaxy s is like lexus to toyota. It's just a line of phones from samsung which are high end.
Adrynalyne is right when he says that there is nothing that we can do but make them admit that nothing is coming out...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess we are getting away from the intended topic. This might be my fault, if I not expressed clearly.
If adrynalyne is talking to somebody at Samsung, would be nice if he can share that person contact. I guess idea is to have one single point of force application.
Even if that person is brainless office droid, he will have to report up at some point, if number and intensity of complaints is over some threshold.
Could we here formulate some collective message and start pushing it from different emails?

I'd just like to use the 3.5mm audio out on my dock, have map rotation gesture working in maps and get chrome to phone back; new gmail client would be a nice upgrade... Hopefully it will happen someday...
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App

we should speak up about this...

https://supportforums.motorola.com/thread/45865?tstart=0

Of course indeed.
Sent from my Inspire 4G using XDA App

Every device I've had, I've had rooted/flashed/etc day 1 buying it except... the Xoom. While it was possible day 1, I am simply waiting for the hardware update, then I will go to town on it.
Patience is key here, there are zero apps available as is, and there are almost no hacks available yet, so I see no reason to risk my ability to upgrade a device I just spent $800 on until I know hardware wise, it is 100% what I purchased.
~m

Something as advertised, that we paid for, is not part of a warranty. What unlocking it does it voids the warranty so if there is an issue we cannot return it. We paid for the 4G upgrade, it was advertised in the deal and it wasn't stated that voiding the warranty voids the upgrade anywhere.

i rooted so I could help test blueputdroid (ps3 remote for android). I have trouble believing that Dans words are Moto's, but I could see Moto letting them stand if no one calls them out.

Rooting the Xoom - will this make it ineligible for 4G upgrade?
The question is technical and I'm not sure there is a blanket answer that covers all possible situations. Here's how I understand it, but I'm the first to admit that this is not my area of expertise so pardon the layman's approach.
If your Xoom is due for an OTA update and is not locked and on the expected, standard software, it will be passed over. The working assumption is that if you are on non-standard software, you want it that way and we leave you alone.
If you unlock your Xoom and load non-standard software, you should be able to reload standard software and relock it, so that you can receive OTA upgrades. Barring that, if the Motorola SBF is made available, as is currently planned, you can flash it yourself.
If you're asking if every change made to the device as a result of root can be detected, I don't know. I doubt that there is an answer for that.
From Matt the Moto Xoom Forum Manager
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So he's on the right track, stating that we can flash it back to stock and have it be able to be upgraded

As long as you relock before sending they should have no idea. I'm guessing they want to make sure the bootloader and modem firmware are stock for testing.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

It does make sense, doesnt it?
If we stray from the stock/approved software, we potentially stray from any software update that would be required to enable the 4G hardware upgrade to work.
It sounds like Moto is trying to say that they can't support non-stock software.
If however, we root/unlock and relock, going back to stock, and they say that voids our warranty and they won't upgrade (whether they can even tell or not is another question) then thats a different story.

that is exactly what this is about. They need to be cut and dry about this, not leave grey areas and pit falls.

I will be the first one to sue them if they do that, they have provided the unlock for us too, easy case. I have not however rooted yet because there is no real reason to, I am waiting for a custom rom, hopefully 2.2 and I can get off the buggy 3.0

desantim said:
Every device I've had, I've had rooted/flashed/etc day 1 buying it except... the Xoom. While it was possible day 1, I am simply waiting for the hardware update, then I will go to town on it.
Patience is key here, there are zero apps available as is, and there are almost no hacks available yet, so I see no reason to risk my ability to upgrade a device I just spent $800 on until I know hardware wise, it is 100% what I purchased.
~m
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Rooting it shouldn't effect the ability to update, you're not loading a custom rom, you're just adding su and Superuser.apk.

bogatyr said:
Something as advertised, that we paid for, is not part of a warranty. What unlocking it does it voids the warranty so if there is an issue we cannot return it. We paid for the 4G upgrade, it was advertised in the deal and it wasn't stated that voiding the warranty voids the upgrade anywhere.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While I agree with you 100%, I think that the OP's point is that it would be nice to Motorola confirm or deny this

... forget this bs
Dont know what motorola employees are thinking. It seems that teir forum/facebook stuff acts like crazy idiots (DansDr... is one of them). they respond very often like baker, which dont know their own bread ... sad but true.
... and we always could change to stock before we will return the xoom for a 4G upgrade.

Going The Virtuous Route
I'm hearing all this stuff and I can't help but be reminded of back when we DX users were chomping at the bit for Moto to give us FroYo. Yes, it was frustrating as hell, but we got through it. I feel that in this situation, the same will apply. We are going to wait a ridiculously long period of time past the date we were given, but we will eventually get it. It sucks, but that seems to be the modus operandi of our friends at Moto when situations like this arise.
I'm already frustrated because I waited too long and lost out on the coupon offer that others were able to avail of last week. (I couldn't do it at the time because the funds weren't available - so I left them in my shopping cart.) When I went to try and resume at my shopping cart, the $200 discount was gone and all that Moto E-Commerce can sing is that same old tired song about it isn't supposed to happen. In fact, they're denying that they honored any of those sales at all - I almost feel like I was baited and switched on. In any event, it looks like I'm going to continue my efforts and try to get it on a data-only plan with Verizon - provided I can still keep the same unlimited data plan that I have with my DX. I'm not about to spend $30/month for only 10GB. I can easily go through that in about 5 days.
As for the unlocking and rooting, I know that on this device, I will simply be patient and wait for the 4G radio to be added. Once all the hardware is in place, all bets are off. We are fortunate in that the XOOM was the base development device this time for Honeycomb - the only reason we get unlocked bootloader. I'm willing to wait because I know that in time, you wonderful people here at XDA will have all the bugs worked out and there will be at least 3-4 good ROMs out there for it by that time.
Yes, it will be agonizing to wait. But it will be worth it in the long run. Development with locked systems totally sucks - even though the folks here do their very best everyday to make it worth it for the rest of us. However, we are now entering development for a tablet - an awesome tablet in fact. We stand to be the recipients of some really quality programming here soon. It's an era that I'm proud to be at the ground floor of. Hell, I might even try to learn how to make ROMs for this one.
All in all, patience truly is a virtue and I'm going to try as hard as I can to be virtuous this time around. Please keep me in your prayers that I don't go completely nuts. Thanks family.

GulMiguel said:
I'm hearing all this stuff and I can't help but be reminded of back when we DX users were chomping at the bit for Moto to give us FroYo. Yes, it was frustrating as hell, but we got through it. I feel that in this situation, the same will apply. We are going to wait a ridiculously long period of time past the date we were given, but we will eventually get it. It sucks, but that seems to be the modus operandi of our friends at Moto when situations like this arise.
I'm already frustrated because I waited too long and lost out on the coupon offer that others were able to avail of last week. (I couldn't do it at the time because the funds weren't available - so I left them in my shopping cart.) When I went to try and resume at my shopping cart, the $200 discount was gone and all that Moto E-Commerce can sing is that same old tired song about it isn't supposed to happen. In fact, they're denying that they honored any of those sales at all - I almost feel like I was baited and switched on. In any event, it looks like I'm going to continue my efforts and try to get it on a data-only plan with Verizon - provided I can still keep the same unlimited data plan that I have with my DX. I'm not about to spend $30/month for only 10GB. I can easily go through that in about 5 days.
As for the unlocking and rooting, I know that on this device, I will simply be patient and wait for the 4G radio to be added. Once all the hardware is in place, all bets are off. We are fortunate in that the XOOM was the base development device this time for Honeycomb - the only reason we get unlocked bootloader. I'm willing to wait because I know that in time, you wonderful people here at XDA will have all the bugs worked out and there will be at least 3-4 good ROMs out there for it by that time.
Yes, it will be agonizing to wait. But it will be worth it in the long run. Development with locked systems totally sucks - even though the folks here do their very best everyday to make it worth it for the rest of us. However, we are now entering development for a tablet - an awesome tablet in fact. We stand to be the recipients of some really quality programming here soon. It's an era that I'm proud to be at the ground floor of. Hell, I might even try to learn how to make ROMs for this one.
All in all, patience truly is a virtue and I'm going to try as hard as I can to be virtuous this time around. Please keep me in your prayers that I don't go completely nuts. Thanks family.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You wont ever get your unlimited phone data plan on your tablet. Phones are the only thing that get unlimited data

Legacystar said:
You wont ever get your unlimited phone data plan on your tablet. Phones are the only thing that get unlimited data
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Phones and grandfathered devices*
My laptop still has unlimited.
EDIT: And yes you can transfer the unlimited between devices, I switched it from a PC card to my internal laptop modem two months ago.

bogatyr said:
Phones and grandfathered devices*
My laptop still has unlimited.
EDIT: And yes you can transfer the unlimited between devices, I switched it from a PC card to my internal laptop modem two months ago.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That was essentially a swap from one pc card to another not from a phone to a non phone.

Legacystar said:
That was essentially a swap from one pc card to another not from a phone to a non phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's also not a phone, which was my point. Phones are not the only devices with unlimited plans, if you have a grandfathered laptop plan you can move it from one device to another, including the MIFI devices. I'm debating on moving it to one of those to share with my tablet or assigning my tablets ID to the account in the website.

This is another example of what I've been saying for the past week: Motorola has been the WORST you can possibly imagine in communicating with customers and potential customers since CES.
They've made us and the media work for every bit of information, relying on leaks instead of upfront information from Motorola. Things that were discovered via leaks: No Netflix, No Flash, No HDCP, No SD card, No LTE, the LTE upgrade path, this new information about LTE disqualification, etc, etc.

Motorola Forum Mods make Legion ANGRY!!!!!
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}

Want the bootloader keys? Lets all fight back!

To Motorola and for the rest of us,
I bought this phone originally because I read that the bootloader would be unlocked and I assumed fairly soon after. I, like most people, do not like motoblur. It is a slow, bloated, unfriendly interface that was forced upon me. Sadly, it is still forced upon me. So now that I thought I'd hold out and thought we'd get the keys, we didn't and it's too late to return this phone that had great promise.
What do I do now since I was dupped? I take away potential customers from Motorola. I've already convinced 3 of my friends not to get any of your phones and also a XOOM and who knows how many people they will tell my recommendations to?
You guys waste so much money on marketing and creating an image. This thing was suppose to blur the lines between computer and phone and you yourself are the ones who crippled that from being possible. Do you know what happens when you go to a sales agent at AT&T? They don't recommend the Atrix; a power user/person with knowledge of smartphones denies the customer from even considering it an option. Why would they do that? Because they know they can sell another phone that THEY like (easier to sell when you like it yourself) and they know the user won't come back and return against them, since they are paid commission.
Also, consider the demographic that probably bought this phone or considered it. They more than likely aren't the people who click 'Allow' when a website asks if it can install malware - those people bought iPhone's. The dual core CPU and webtop experience attracted the nerdier group - the power users and dev's - the exact people who don't want the limitations you put.
I know my post probably won't get heard by anyone important at moto but I know some of us owners/users/sympathizers will read this. The only thing I can hope is that we use the great tool we have and blog/tweet/status update/tell others. They won't listen to us, but they will listen to money. Take it away from them and they will listen.
FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS BUY MOTO! <---My facebook status and you should make it yours too!

kane4fire said:
To Motorola and for the rest of us,
I bought this phone originally because I read that the bootloader would be unlocked and I assumed fairly soon after. I, like most people, do not like motoblur. It is a slow, bloated, unfriendly interface that was forced upon me. Sadly, it is still forced upon me. So now that I thought I'd hold out and thought we'd get the keys, we didn't and it's too late to return this phone that had great promise.
Moto wasn't forced upon you. You bought the phone with a locked bootloader and Motoblur installed! Buying the phone was your decision!
What do I do now since I was dupped? I take away potential customers from Motorola. I've already convinced 3 of my friends not to get any of your phones and also a XOOM and who knows how many people they will tell my recommendations to?
Just because Motorola hasn't unlocked the bootloader in what is your timeframe doesn't constitute you being duped! Once again, you bought the phone knowing it had a locked bootloader and Motoblur!
You guys waste so much money on marketing and creating an image. This thing was suppose to blur the lines between computer and phone and you yourself are the ones who crippled that from being possible. Do you know what happens when you go to a sales agent at AT&T? They don't recommend the Atrix; a power user/person with knowledge of smartphones denies the customer from even considering it an option. Why would they do that? Because they know they can sell another phone that THEY like (easier to sell when you like it yourself) and they know the user won't come back and return against them, since they are paid commission.
No salesperson tried to prevent me buying mine. In fact, to the contrary, they gave me all the options. I, like you, chose to purchase the Atrix! A power user doesn't need the sales persons help to choose what they want!
Also, consider the demographic that probably bought this phone or considered it. They more than likely aren't the people who click 'Allow' when a website asks if it can install malware - those people bought iPhone's. The dual core CPU and webtop experience attracted the nerdier group - the power users and dev's - the exact people who don't want the limitations you put.
Dare I say it again..............you bought the phone knowing the bootloader was locked and Motoblur was on it! Everyone who has bought the Atrix and considers themselves a power user knows/knew the same things
I know my post probably won't get heard by anyone important at moto but I know some of us owners/users/sympathizers will read this. The only thing I can hope is that we use the great tool we have and blog/tweet/status update/tell others. They won't listen to us, but they will listen to money. Take it away from them and they will listen.
Sell your Atrix..........take your *****ing to another forum............and on your way out, don't let the doorknob hit ya where the good lord split ya!
FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS WHINE AND COMPLAIN ABOUT A PRODUCT THEY BOUGHT KNOWING IT WASN'T WHAT THEY WANTED <---My facebook status and you should make it yours too!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See above for my response to this!

*****ing about it will not accomplish anything and a large company such as Motorola wont be hurt by a few sales and honestly if I were your Facebook friend I would still buy this gadget, you know why? Its a great phone and there is still a chance that its bootloader will be unlocked eventually...just be patient.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App

Actually, motorola explicitly stated they were going to unlock the bootloader from near the beginning - which was the reason I bought the phone. They used it as a selling point and they haven't addressed it at all...probably hoping it would be forgotten. Same thing with it being called a 4G phone, but it couldn't even attain 3G speeds up. They sold people on the idea that it would have the ability to access the fastest network speeds and people knew it didn't but still bought it. People *****ed, and now everyone (including your ungratefulness), got what they were told they were paying for.
A sales person may have not kept you, but it does happen more than in your case. As a matter of fact it happens fairly regularly. Usually a sales rep will lean towards one phone instead of another simply due to personal preference.
It is a great phone and great hardware without the ability to use it. This is a developers forum. If you don't want the ability to develop on this phone completely, why are you here? So you can seem all high and mighty? Maybe you're the one in the wrong forum or maybe you should just have a couple pitchers at a pub?
As far as a few sales not hurting it, that's not true at all. These phones aren't exactly flying off the shelves. As a matter of fact, this phone has a higher return rate than almost other smartphones. A returned phone costs much more overall than just not making a sale in the first place. The reason why they are going to do that is only because enough people are pissed about it that their current sales are hurting. They didn't spend money hiring people and R&D to create a locked bootloader if they didn't originally plan on keeping it locked for good.
You guys can tell people not to say anything or *****, but at the end of the day, you'll be the ones reaping the benefits of the people who did.

roharia said:
*****ing about it will not accomplish anything and a large company such as Motorola wont be hurt by a few sales and honestly if I were your Facebook friend I would still buy this gadget, you know why? Its a great phone and there is still a chance that its bootloader will be unlocked eventually...just be patient.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
*****ing won't, but asking the right questions and showing that you are not the only one who is after this definitely gets some attention.
Kane4fire,
I really like your passion, it's just about making sure your message is heard and that you don't look like a troll.
Please look at some of the work I've been doing with Motorola, it's slow going but we are getting noticed.
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/04/motorola-bootloader/
http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/26/motorola-promises-unlocked-bootloaders-for-future-android-phones/
http://www.groubal.com/motorola-lockedencrypted-bootloader-policy/
http://www.facebook.com/unlockmoto
Cheers,
Irwin

Irwin, I have been seeing a lot of your work and group and etc. Personally, I'm not 100% convinced on them unlocking the bootloader for the Atrix since all the articles stated 'late 2011 releases' and the Atrix is early 2011.
The whole point of my post was for people who do post things and have some sort of a following to actually do something and post up as well on their own avenues. If you lose your dog, you don't just tell one or two people, you tell everyone and everything you can and it creates an exponential chain of people who end up knowing about it.
I personally know for a fact that at least in a small regional area they haven't done well with the XOOM and Atrix AT ALL and much of it actually has to do with Blur and it's problems with memory usage, battery life, and general lack of UI polish. I am sure that once the figures are out it will reflect how poorly they have been doing. It's a corporation and money is their motivator/reason for existence. I am sure if they hurt enough they will bow.

kane4fire said:
Irwin, I have been seeing a lot of your work and group and etc. Personally, I'm not 100% convinced on them unlocking the bootloader for the Atrix since all the articles stated 'late 2011 releases' and the Atrix is early 2011.
The whole point of my post was for people who do post things and have some sort of a following to actually do something and post up as well on their own avenues. If you lose your dog, you don't just tell one or two people, you tell everyone and everything you can and it creates an exponential chain of people who end up knowing about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Absolutely. I haven't ceased any of my activities since that PR mumbo jumbo they gave me.
I have a few contacts within Motorola that are being difficult to get a hold of, so I keep sending emails, I keep calling (international calls for me), I keep my facebook group going, I keep tweeting and spreading as far as I can.
I hope you also have similar luck in spreading the word and getting people to rally to the cause, just make sure not to dilute the message too much or get people opposed to you.
Good luck my friend, it's good to see the fire burns strong for you.

kane4fire said:
Irwin, I have been seeing a lot of your work and group and etc. Personally, I'm not 100% convinced on them unlocking the bootloader for the Atrix since all the articles stated 'late 2011 releases' and the Atrix is early 2011.
The whole point of my post was for people who do post things and have some sort of a following to actually do something and post up as well on their own avenues. If you lose your dog, you don't just tell one or two people, you tell everyone and everything you can and it creates an exponential chain of people who end up knowing about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not to doubt your ability to read and understand the English language, but here is the actual quote:
“Motorola will enable an unlockable/relockable bootloader, currently found on Motorola Xoom, in future software releases where carrier and operator partners will allow it,” Motorola said in a statement provided to Wired.com. “It is our intention to include the unlockable/relockable bootloader in software releases starting in late 2011.”
Is the Atrix a software release? No. Maybe they will be pushing OTA updates starting in late 2011 which will allow for this.

knigitz said:
Not to doubt your ability to read and understand the English language, but here is the actual quote:
“Motorola will enable an unlockable/relockable bootloader, currently found on Motorola Xoom, in future software releases where carrier and operator partners will allow it,” Motorola said in a statement provided to Wired.com. “It is our intention to include the unlockable/relockable bootloader in software releases starting in late 2011.”
Is the Atrix a software release? No. Maybe they will be pushing OTA updates starting in late 2011 which will allow for this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, my mistake. I haven't been able to sleep. Either way, their choice of wording still doesn't mean they will actually provide the unlock since they have to convince the carrier to unlock it. I don't know what their terms were with AT&T, but why would they need permission to unlock a bootloader when it has nothing to do with the cellular network? AT&T is obviously going to say no on the matter since it means less possible anything for them to deal with. Then again I don't know. Maybe it was apart of the deal that they would lock the bootloader as a package to offer the phone on a particular network.

kane4fire said:
Well, my mistake. I haven't been able to sleep. Either way, their choice of wording still doesn't mean they will actually provide the unlock since they have to convince the carrier to unlock it. I don't know what their terms were with AT&T, but why would they need permission to unlock a bootloader when it has nothing to do with the cellular network? AT&T is obviously going to say no on the matter since it means less possible anything for them to deal with. Then again I don't know. Maybe it was apart of the deal that they would lock the bootloader as a package to offer the phone on a particular network.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Neither you or any other Atrix owner is entitled to an unlocked bootloader from Motorola. Just saying: You're not. At the same time, you're well within your rights to crack it yourself, or just get a different phone.
Edit: I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice of Motorola to package a completely open bootloader with the Gingerbread update. It would.

This absolutely does have something to do with AT&T. The AT&T Atrix was "built" for AT&T. There are contractual agreements in place.
So if AT&T says no, that is the answer. If you want a phone with an unlocked bootloader (in this case) then you need to buy one that will be unlocked - either the carrier approved it, or maybe we see an unlocked phone that is not tied to a carrier.
If you buy an AT&T (or other carrier) branded phone, then you are going to be stuck with that carriers decisions.

chromedome00 said:
This absolutely does have something to do with AT&T. The AT&T Atrix was "built" for AT&T. There are contractual agreements in place.
So if AT&T says no, that is the answer. If you want a phone with an unlocked bootloader (in this case) then you need to buy one that will be unlocked - either the carrier approved it, or maybe we see an unlocked phone that is not tied to a carrier.
If you buy an AT&T (or other carrier) branded phone, then you are going to be stuck with that carriers decisions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You say that, but then again there are many other Android phones on AT&T that /do/ have an unlocked bootloader. Captivate, Aria, Inspire, galaxy tab and most likely the Infuse. So again, maybe AT&T doesn't care and its up to the manufacturers.
Sent from my screaming Atrix *4G* using the XDA App

I am lost......if bloatware and motoblur are the issues you have with the phone why not just get rid of or freeze the bloatware and try a different launcher or Ginger/grey blur? I haven't had to deal with motoblur for a while.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App

kane4fire said:
To Motorola and for the rest of us,
For one you and hackers on here kill me most brands like moto don't make phone people to replace a bootloarer that's not in there mind in the board meeting.That being said they built a phone that a normal person can pick up and download apps from marketplace from its like buying a new 2011 car getting it home and dropping the motor and tranny the new car is ment to drive of the lot now im not saying I want my atrix bootloader locked cause I don't and my G2x is not unlocked but you can't strike against a large company like moto your little voices still mean nothing do them unless where on there board they care less.
I bought this phone originally because I read that the bootloader would be unlocked and I assumed fairly soon after. I, like most people, do not like motoblur. It is a slow, bloated, unfriendly interface that was forced upon me. Sadly, it is still forced upon me. So now that I thought I'd hold out and thought we'd get the keys, we didn't and it's too late to return this phone that had great promise.
What do I do now since I was dupped? I take away potential customers from Motorola. I've already convinced 3 of my friends not to get any of your phones and also a XOOM and who knows how many people they will tell my recommendations to?
You guys waste so much money on marketing and creating an image. This thing was suppose to blur the lines between computer and phone and you yourself are the ones who crippled that from being possible. Do you know what happens when you go to a sales agent at AT&T? They don't recommend the Atrix; a power user/person with knowledge of smartphones denies the customer from even considering it an option. Why would they do that? Because they know they can sell another phone that THEY like (easier to sell when you like it yourself) and they know the user won't come back and return against them, since they are paid commission.
Also, consider the demographic that probably bought this phone or considered it. They more than likely aren't the people who click 'Allow' when a website asks if it can install malware - those people bought iPhone's. The dual core CPU and webtop experience attracted the nerdier group - the power users and dev's - the exact people who don't want the limitations you put.
I know my post probably won't get heard by anyone important at moto but I know some of us owners/users/sympathizers will read this. The only thing I can hope is that we use the great tool we have and blog/tweet/status update/tell others. They won't listen to us, but they will listen to money. Take it away from them and they will listen.
FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS BUY MOTO! <---My facebook status and you should make it yours too!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App

Tylerjd said:
You say that, but then again there are many other Android phones on AT&T that /do/ have an unlocked bootloader. Captivate, Aria, Inspire, galaxy tab and most likely the Infuse. So again, maybe AT&T doesn't care and its up to the manufacturers.
Sent from my screaming Atrix *4G* using the XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
^^^ If Moto scapegoats AT&T over this, it would not be good for business.

knigitz said:
Not to doubt your ability to read and understand the English language, but here is the actual quote:
“Motorola will enable an unlockable/relockable bootloader, currently found on Motorola Xoom, in future software releases where carrier and operator partners will allow it,” Motorola said in a statement provided to Wired.com. “It is our intention to include the unlockable/relockable bootloader in software releases starting in late 2011.”
Is the Atrix a software release? No. Maybe they will be pushing OTA updates starting in late 2011 which will allow for this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's rumored that Moto will be the manufacturer for the next generation Google Nexus branded device, which is supposedly to be released ~Q4 2011. Maybe this is what they are referring to. Who knows. All I do know is that quote from moto didn't say anything about the Atrix.
nucentury08 said:
For one you and hackers on here kill me most brands like moto don't make phone people to replace a bootloarer that's not in there mind in the board meeting.That being said they built a phone that a normal person can pick up and download apps from marketplace from its like buying a new 2011 car getting it home and dropping the motor and tranny the new car is ment to drive of the lot now im not saying I want my atrix bootloader locked cause I don't and my G2x is not unlocked but you can't strike against a large company like moto your little voices still mean nothing do them unless where on there board they care less.
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Holy ****. Longest, most rambling sentence I've ever seen.

Other att phones have locked bootloaders but they where easily exploited. Htc and the other manufacturers are making them harder and harder to unlock. Att most likely is in contract with moto to keep it locked. With it locked they have more chances of making more money off the bloatware.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA Premium App

knigitz said:
Neither you or any other Atrix owner is entitled to an unlocked bootloader from Motorola. Just saying: You're not. At the same time, you're well within your rights to crack it yourself, or just get a different phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah, why should people who plunk down hundreds of dollars be able to do what they want with something they own?
the nerve of some people wanting to use their devices as they see fit.

jbe4 said:
yeah, why should people who plunk down hundreds of dollars be able to do what they want with something they own?
the nerve of some people wanting to use their devices as they see fit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You pay for the product, not the ability to tweak it to your heart's content. You don't see a $200 iPhone coming readily available to modify, do you? No. You have to jailbreak it first, if there's a jailbreak available.
As for kane's comment about motorola saying they'd unlock the bootloader from "near the beginning".... there was never such a statement that i've seen. I've seen stuff on the Motorola Owners Forum stating that a possible bootloader solution was being looked into... but nothing more than that. period.

elementaldragon said:
You pay for the product, not the ability to tweak it to your heart's content. You don't see a $200 iPhone coming readily available to modify, do you? No. You have to jailbreak it first, if there's a jailbreak available.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
by paying for the product I've paid to do what I want with it - If I want to use it as a way of leveling a kitchen chair thats my prerogative.
I think its just as patently offensive that Apple does it too
regardless, Android was/is billed as the Open Source alternative specifically to address the nonsense that is the itunes store and the draconian oversight of overbearing manufacturers. To have individual manufacturers go against the spirit of what google was/is trying to accomplish when they released AndroidOS seems just a bit ridiculous, dont you think?

#MotoShame campaign for 2 year OS update guarantee - Feb 26

The point is to embarrass Motorola for offering no update policy after their MWC presentation by making #MotoShame trend when they're trying get coverage for their new stuff.
Needed between now and then: People to post everywhere motorola users, in particular Moto Z users are. People to make example images or memes to post with their tweets. Maybe a good, clear infographic about what to do when would be nice if you're good at that. And really anything you think of to get more people on board.
Original post from Moto Z subreddit
Would anyone be interested in a twitter campaign to embarrass Motorola for failing to have an upgrade policy for their Premiere Moto Z line? They keep doing it because we keep putting up with it. I say we embarrass them for cheaping out on us with #MotoShame.
1) We need to trend on Twitter, which means we need to coordinate a large group to post at the same time at a future date. That means we need people to go to every forum where moto z users are and inform and recruit.
2) We need to do it at an ideal moment to get their attention, preferably when they are trying to generate good press. That's when we can get the most attention and the most earned coverage from the blogosphere. Instead of their new gear trending, we make #MotoShame trend.
They are unveiling hardware at MWC on February 26. Hitting them with this will distract from their earned coverage and possibly break through their unwillingness to hear customer complaints on the matter.
3) The tweets need a visual element. Pictures get attention on Twitter. A couple of options:
a) Post pictures of our Moto Zs being sad about Motorola's absentee parenting. quick example of Marvin the Hitchhiker Android speaking for my Z Play
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
b) think of those pet shaming posts people put up, except this time we memeify sad-faced motorola logos or other promotional material with a sign purportedly from Motorola confessing its bad behavior in re: updates.​4) We need a clear demand. We should demand 2 years of guaranteed updates to Moto's premium line matches the cheapo Android One line guarantee. Suggested Tweet text "We made Moto Z a success, now Moto needs to match bargain Android One's 2 year OS upgrade guarantee #MotoShame" [attach image]​I'm not going to press the matter if no one is interested. But I like my Z Play, and I'd like to receive a reasonable amount of support. When I complain to moto alone, they ignore me. Only hope of making a difference is if we complain together. Is anyone interested? If so, how would you contribute (memifying moto shaming logos for people to add to their tweets, posting info and reminders on other forums, tweeting on Feb 26, etc)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Nah, not interested.

Shaming and memes? It's my only meaning in life.

Hey, I don't really know about the update policy . But I wanted to ask one thing. Are we going to get ANDROID O? OR is nougat the last update for Moto z play? Btw , I'm interested #motoshame

Dont really care much for updates

rajdeep2435 said:
Hey, I don't really know about the update policy . But I wanted to ask one thing. Are we going to get ANDROID O? OR is nougat the last update for Moto z play? Btw , I'm interested #motoshame
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The whole point is that there is no update policy, ergo, we'll never know what our last upgrade will be, or when it will be. We get cut off whenever moto gets sick of us.

So does that mean Android 7 is our last update or are we going to get Android 8(O) as well!?

It means if you want an answer to that question, you're going to have to demand one... from Motorola. "No policy" means they won't answer or even decide until they feel like it. Thus: #MotoShame.

Hi my friend, as I told you in MZP Group, this thread could be a lot like spam. And here is why i think that:
1.- You can not force Lenovo (or motorola) to give you an update, because they did not signed anything, they are not forced to give you an update, they just sell you their phone.
2.- Motorola has a 2 year warranty, if you want a signed document you will better make a request in change.org or something like that, and thats why Moto Z series users we dont have to be worried about updates but if you Remember the Moto G3 will not have the nougat update, and a lot of users claimed the update if you want 2 years warranty you will better make it for all moto devices.
3.- Its a terrible idea to make noise in the MWC days, because the only thing you will achieve is to give even more fame to lenovo, a lot of politicians makes this to be even more recognized, and the only thing you will achieve is raise the lenovo's shares of stock. If you want to take some attention then make DDoS attack to their servers.
4.- I do not care about updates, in less than a year im sure that i will have unlocked my bootloader and ill be trying the amazing roms of the XDA's people, im sure that you will have Android P or even Android Q thanks To XDA.
5.- I had the Moto G 1st Gen and let me tell you that Moto did an amazing job with the updates policy, mine was in Android 4.3, later 4.4 and finally 5.0 ... and thanks to the devs Moto G 1st Gen has android 6.0, if that was with a moto g, dont mind about a Moto Z Play ...
6.- I think it is better to make a polite request to lenovo than to make a lot of noise and hitting 'em to their mark image, as we say in Mexico "en el pedir está el dar" (in the asking is the giving).
Think about it mate.

As others here have said, you're alone in this view. Many of us are thrilled that Motorola updates phones like the Z Play as quickly as they do. The Axon 7 and Honor 8 both got nougat the same week we did, and those are ZTE/Huawei's flagships. The Z Play is a budget phone (albeit a very good one), the fact that it has nougat already is impressive. They tell you which phones will be updated, give you an idea of when they think it will happen, and then actually do it. They're no OnePlus, but they've got carriers to deal with and far more SKUs. For a company that size, Motorola is one of if not the best when it comes to updates.

People have been politely requesting a clear policy for years. Motorola and others have ignored it. If users are ok with that, I'm not looking to convince them otherwise. Just offering a platform for those that want to to finally be heard from.
I asked Motorola specifically about the length of support for the Z Play (future updates, not the speed of current ones which has nothing to do with thread), they said it was unknowable. Android One support isn't unknowable, and those phones are half the price of the Z Play.

The Bankshooter said:
Hi my friend, as I told you in MZP Group, this thread could be a lot like spam. And here is why i think that:
5.- I had the Moto G 1st Gen and let me tell you that Moto did an amazing job with the updates policy, mine was in Android 4.3, later 4.4 and finally 5.0 ... and thanks to the devs Moto G 1st Gen has android 6.0, if that was with a moto g, dont mind about a Moto Z Play ...
Think about it mate.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The G has 7.1.1

uberano26 said:
The G has 7.1.1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, it does not. He was talking about the first gen Moto G, which got 5.1 officially. The Moto G gen 3 got 6.0. Only the 4th gen Moto G gets Nougat.
I only count Official update from Moto.

Yeah because what a shame it would be if a device got its update not from the manufacturer but from other sources.

uberano26 said:
Yeah because what a shame it would be if a device got its update not from the manufacturer but from other sources.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To be fair, custom ROMs don't include features like Moto actions, active display, and touchless controls, which are all pretty useful. But if someone released a ROM with Moto features working that was relatively bug-free, who cares if it's official or not?

xxBrun0xx said:
To be fair, custom ROMs don't include features like Moto actions, active display, and touchless controls, which are all pretty useful. But if someone released a ROM with Moto features working that was relatively bug-free, who cares if it's official or not?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
At the same time, the people on forums like XDA are a tiny fraction of phone purchasers and know about rooting, ROM-ing, etc. Most people purchase phones without a desire to or knowledge of modding and would appreciate concrete and adhered-to policies ahead of the launch of a phone so that they know what they're getting in to.
Personally, I'd much prefer reliable info from the manufacturer and not have to root/ROM each phone that I get. I used to root before getting the MZP, but now I like the fact that I can use Android Pay again. The older I get, the more responsibilities I have, the less time I have to play around with my phones (although I personally enjoy it). I now want devices that just work and get updated in a timely, predictable manner.

pkadavid said:
At the same time, the people on forums like XDA are a tiny fraction of phone purchasers and know about rooting, ROM-ing, etc. Most people purchase phones without a desire to or knowledge of modding and would appreciate concrete and adhered-to policies ahead of the launch of a phone so that they know what they're getting in to.
Personally, I'd much prefer reliable info from the manufacturer and not have to root/ROM each phone that I get. I used to root before getting the MZP, but now I like the fact that I can use Android Pay again. The older I get, the more responsibilities I have, the less time I have to play around with my phones (although I personally enjoy it). I now want devices that just work and get updated in a timely, predictable manner.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To that point, most people don't know what security updates are. Most people choose not to update when they have an update. So again, kind of a moot point.

xxBrun0xx said:
As others here have said, you're alone in this view. Many of us are thrilled that Motorola updates phones like the Z Play as quickly as they do. The Axon 7 and Honor 8 both got nougat the same week we did, and those are ZTE/Huawei's flagships. The Z Play is a budget phone (albeit a very good one), the fact that it has nougat already is impressive. They tell you which phones will be updated, give you an idea of when they think it will happen, and then actually do it. They're no OnePlus, but they've got carriers to deal with and far more SKUs. For a company that size, Motorola is one of if not the best when it comes to updates.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To be clear, the MZP does not have Nougat already, at least not in the US and not rolled out by Motorola.
---------- Post added at 17:05 ---------- Previous post was at 17:03 ----------
xxBrun0xx said:
To that point, most people don't know what security updates are. Most people choose not to update when they have an update. So again, kind of a moot point.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you have a source for that?

pkadavid said:
To be clear, the MZP does not have Nougat already, at least not in the US and not rolled out by Motorola.
---------- Post added at 17:05 ---------- Previous post was at 17:03 ----------
Do you have a source for that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you have any friends? Family members? Co-workers? Anyone you can ask? I bet more people than not have no idea the software on their phone is out of date. Go talk to non-technical people, I'm always amazed when I talk to "normal people" how little they know or care about their phones.
I'm not saying your wrong that Moto should have an update policy in place because it's pretty obvious that they should. My point is that they're not alone: no other phone manufacturer except OnePlus, blackberry, and google have a solid update policy that they stand behind and deliver on regularly. And unfortunately the majority of people are fine with that. Trying to humiliate a company for following an industry standard is pretty crazy, imo. Those of us who have had lots of Motorola's over the years, have called tech support, have gotten updates, have torn our hair out trying to unlock bootloaders that we're never meant to be unlocked, we see the current Motorola working harder than it ever has before to get us quick updates. Bashing them for that just isn't right.

xxBrun0xx said:
Do you have any friends? Family members? Co-workers? Anyone you can ask? I bet more people than not have no idea the software on their phone is out of date. Go talk to non-technical people, I'm always amazed when I talk to "normal people" how little they know or care about their phones.
I'm not saying your wrong that Moto should have an update policy in place because it's pretty obvious that they should. My point is that they're not alone: no other phone manufacturer except OnePlus, blackberry, and google have a solid update policy that they stand behind and deliver on regularly. And unfortunately the majority of people are fine with that. Trying to humiliate a company for following an industry standard is pretty crazy, imo. Those of us who have had lots of Motorola's over the years, have called tech support, have gotten updates, have torn our hair out trying to unlock bootloaders that we're never meant to be unlocked, we see the current Motorola working harder than it ever has before to get us quick updates. Bashing them for that just isn't right.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You misconstrued my earlier opinion as supporting the bashing. I never said that.
Asking my friends, family, and coworkers would not result in statistically significant data on whether or not the general phone user is aware of or installs updates when presented to them by their OS. In the few minutes I had, I was neither able to find data that would support nor refute your hypothesis. This is also why I did not say that I believe that most users know about or install updates, because I have no data to support that. It was simply a statement from my point of view.

H870DS Bootloader workaround?

Hello,
So I got the H870DS version without knowing about LG's policy on bootloader unlocking so I was really disappointed when I learned that I can't unlock my phone.
A friend of mine got the European version and he doesn't care much about unlocking his phone and I was wondering if I could use his phone's id and imei to generate an unlock.bin file and use that on my device, my initial thought was that it wouldn't work because somehow the key should be unique to the device but still I wanted a second opinion on this just to be sure.

qer0si said:
Hello,
So I got the H870DS version without knowing about LG's policy on bootloader unlocking so I was really disappointed when I learned that I can't unlock my phone.
A friend of mine got the European version and he doesn't care much about unlocking his phone and I was wondering if I could use his phone's id and imei to generate an unlock.bin file and use that on my device, my initial thought was that it wouldn't work because somehow the key should be unique to the device but still I wanted a second opinion on this just to be sure.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand that you have gravitated towards Android because it has the customization support, and we are all very happy to welcome you. But it is these kinds of posts that put off the developers. Please read the G6 thread and search for your specific model. If it is locked, it is locked. Sell the phone and buy a Samsung, or a OnePlus; or wait patiently for an unofficial workaround. Have a nice day!

vijaykanth said:
I understand that you have gravitated towards Android because it has the customization support, and we are all very happy to welcome you. But it is these kinds of posts that put off the developers. Please read the G6 thread and search for your specific model. If it is locked, it is locked. Sell the phone and buy a Samsung, or a OnePlus; or wait patiently for an unofficial workaround. Have a nice day!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sorry for the post but I'm feeling desperate. I had the OnePlus One for 2 years and I loved it for the customization, different roms etc. I really like this device that's why I want to avoid selling and it doesn't look like LG has any intention of offering an unlocked bootloader for my device version
Well better do my homework next time I'm gonna buy a new phone.

qer0si said:
I'm sorry for the post but I'm feeling desperate. I had the OnePlus One for 2 years and I loved it for the customization, different roms etc. I really like this device that's why I want to avoid selling and it doesn't look like LG has any intention of offering an unlocked bootloader for my device version
Well better do my homework next time I'm gonna buy a new phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Man, I feel you. Even I was about to order this literally yesterday. Then I saw that the support LG offers is not just pathetic, but non-existent. Are we supposed to think of their devices as flagships, when we aren't even getting full ownership of the device after paying the full amount upfront? This is the reason its rivals are doing much better, even after LG uses the "latest" tech.
Anyways, I ordered the OnePlus 5, and that will be my first Chinese smartphone. I am very skeptical about the OP5 as well, cause it is hardly a flagship (no expandable memory, no water resistance, no dust resistance, easily overpriced by $50), but what can you do?! The smartphone market is really pathetic since 2015. Consumers are so stupid and jump on the bandwagon like a bunch of sheep. I am coming from a Samsung Galaxy S4, and none of the smartphones have impressed me since 2013, except maybe the S8, which is way too overpriced by at least a $100!

vijaykanth said:
Man, I feel you. Even I was about to order this literally yesterday. Then I saw that the support LG offers is not just pathetic, but non-existent. Are we supposed to think of their devices as flagships, when we aren't even getting full ownership of the device after paying the full amount upfront? This is the reason its rivals are doing much better, even after LG uses the "latest" tech.
Anyways, I ordered the OnePlus 5, and that will be my first Chinese smartphone. I am very skeptical about the OP5 as well, cause it is hardly a flagship (no expandable memory, no water resistance, no dust resistance, easily overpriced by $50), but what can you do?! The smartphone market is really pathetic since 2015. Consumers are so stupid and jump on the bandwagon like a bunch of sheep. I am coming from a Samsung Galaxy S4, and none of the smartphones have impressed me since 2013, except maybe the S8, which is way too overpriced by at least a $100!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From what I understand they don't offer bootloader support for the asian version because they're afraid that resellers may load bloatware or even spyware on the device before selling it and so you're sure you're getting a safe out of box software experience this way and I guess the majority of buyers won't care about unlocking it thus hurting more "advanced" users.
The OnePlus 5 seems decent although they have indeed overpriced it a bit for what it offers but I've held different OnePlus devices (One, X, 3) and their build quality is nice and the unlocked bootloader will prolong its lifespan by quite a bit through custom roms.

qer0si said:
From what I understand they don't offer bootloader support for the asian version because they're afraid that resellers may load bloatware or even spyware on the device before selling it and so you're sure you're getting a safe out of box software experience this way and I guess the majority of buyers won't care about unlocking it thus hurting more "advanced" users.
The OnePlus 5 seems decent although they have indeed overpriced it a bit for what it offers but I've held different OnePlus devices (One, X, 3) and their build quality is nice and the unlocked bootloader will prolong its lifespan by quite a bit through custom roms.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, LG and its code of ethics has hurt developers and hardcore users big time. In one way I guess you have to agree to it as well, because it is indeed great to see a firm that cares about security and user information safety (unlike the OnePlus which blatantly takes user info, but can be avoided after installing a custom ROM, which is why we buy Android smartphones )
I am hoping to not think of any other device for another 2-3 years at least. If the new OnePlus that's coming out later this year or early next year is good then I'll definitely exchange the OnePlus 5 for that. Smartphone buying has become hectic!
To the moderator of this thread: You can close this thread!

vijaykanth said:
I understand that you have gravitated towards Android because it has the customization support, and we are all very happy to welcome you. But it is these kinds of posts that put off the developers. Please read the G6 thread and search for your specific model. If it is locked, it is locked. Sell the phone and buy a Samsung, or a OnePlus; or wait patiently for an unofficial workaround. Have a nice day!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
His question was valid and met guidelines so please keep your opinions to yourself if they are not helpful to the initial post. You will be reported next time, the forums here do not support stifling of valid questions and support. Strike one.

qer0si said:
A friend of mine got the European version and he doesn't care much about unlocking his phone and I was wondering if I could use his phone's id and imei to generate an unlock.bin file and use that on my device, my initial thought was that it wouldn't work because somehow the key should be unique to the device but still I wanted a second opinion on this just to be sure.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why not just trade phones with your friend?

dwasifar said:
Why not just trade phones with your friend?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He thinks my model being the Korean one is gonna show problems soon lol, oh and he has the white color which I really don't like because it makes the black line between the body of the phone and the screen noticeable.

qer0si said:
I'm sorry for the post but I'm feeling desperate. I had the OnePlus One for 2 years and I loved it for the customization, different roms etc. I really like this device that's why I want to avoid selling and it doesn't look like LG has any intention of offering an unlocked bootloader for my device version
Well better do my homework next time I'm gonna buy a new phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sell it and buy the LG G6 US997 from B&H they are all bootloader unlockable its the US version NOT US Cellular and they are cheap as well hope this helps ya link enclosed below
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/used/1322815/lg_g6_us997_32gb_smartphone.html