To Motorola and for the rest of us,
I bought this phone originally because I read that the bootloader would be unlocked and I assumed fairly soon after. I, like most people, do not like motoblur. It is a slow, bloated, unfriendly interface that was forced upon me. Sadly, it is still forced upon me. So now that I thought I'd hold out and thought we'd get the keys, we didn't and it's too late to return this phone that had great promise.
What do I do now since I was dupped? I take away potential customers from Motorola. I've already convinced 3 of my friends not to get any of your phones and also a XOOM and who knows how many people they will tell my recommendations to?
You guys waste so much money on marketing and creating an image. This thing was suppose to blur the lines between computer and phone and you yourself are the ones who crippled that from being possible. Do you know what happens when you go to a sales agent at AT&T? They don't recommend the Atrix; a power user/person with knowledge of smartphones denies the customer from even considering it an option. Why would they do that? Because they know they can sell another phone that THEY like (easier to sell when you like it yourself) and they know the user won't come back and return against them, since they are paid commission.
Also, consider the demographic that probably bought this phone or considered it. They more than likely aren't the people who click 'Allow' when a website asks if it can install malware - those people bought iPhone's. The dual core CPU and webtop experience attracted the nerdier group - the power users and dev's - the exact people who don't want the limitations you put.
I know my post probably won't get heard by anyone important at moto but I know some of us owners/users/sympathizers will read this. The only thing I can hope is that we use the great tool we have and blog/tweet/status update/tell others. They won't listen to us, but they will listen to money. Take it away from them and they will listen.
FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS BUY MOTO! <---My facebook status and you should make it yours too!
kane4fire said:
To Motorola and for the rest of us,
I bought this phone originally because I read that the bootloader would be unlocked and I assumed fairly soon after. I, like most people, do not like motoblur. It is a slow, bloated, unfriendly interface that was forced upon me. Sadly, it is still forced upon me. So now that I thought I'd hold out and thought we'd get the keys, we didn't and it's too late to return this phone that had great promise.
Moto wasn't forced upon you. You bought the phone with a locked bootloader and Motoblur installed! Buying the phone was your decision!
What do I do now since I was dupped? I take away potential customers from Motorola. I've already convinced 3 of my friends not to get any of your phones and also a XOOM and who knows how many people they will tell my recommendations to?
Just because Motorola hasn't unlocked the bootloader in what is your timeframe doesn't constitute you being duped! Once again, you bought the phone knowing it had a locked bootloader and Motoblur!
You guys waste so much money on marketing and creating an image. This thing was suppose to blur the lines between computer and phone and you yourself are the ones who crippled that from being possible. Do you know what happens when you go to a sales agent at AT&T? They don't recommend the Atrix; a power user/person with knowledge of smartphones denies the customer from even considering it an option. Why would they do that? Because they know they can sell another phone that THEY like (easier to sell when you like it yourself) and they know the user won't come back and return against them, since they are paid commission.
No salesperson tried to prevent me buying mine. In fact, to the contrary, they gave me all the options. I, like you, chose to purchase the Atrix! A power user doesn't need the sales persons help to choose what they want!
Also, consider the demographic that probably bought this phone or considered it. They more than likely aren't the people who click 'Allow' when a website asks if it can install malware - those people bought iPhone's. The dual core CPU and webtop experience attracted the nerdier group - the power users and dev's - the exact people who don't want the limitations you put.
Dare I say it again..............you bought the phone knowing the bootloader was locked and Motoblur was on it! Everyone who has bought the Atrix and considers themselves a power user knows/knew the same things
I know my post probably won't get heard by anyone important at moto but I know some of us owners/users/sympathizers will read this. The only thing I can hope is that we use the great tool we have and blog/tweet/status update/tell others. They won't listen to us, but they will listen to money. Take it away from them and they will listen.
Sell your Atrix..........take your *****ing to another forum............and on your way out, don't let the doorknob hit ya where the good lord split ya!
FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS WHINE AND COMPLAIN ABOUT A PRODUCT THEY BOUGHT KNOWING IT WASN'T WHAT THEY WANTED <---My facebook status and you should make it yours too!
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Click to collapse
See above for my response to this!
*****ing about it will not accomplish anything and a large company such as Motorola wont be hurt by a few sales and honestly if I were your Facebook friend I would still buy this gadget, you know why? Its a great phone and there is still a chance that its bootloader will be unlocked eventually...just be patient.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
Actually, motorola explicitly stated they were going to unlock the bootloader from near the beginning - which was the reason I bought the phone. They used it as a selling point and they haven't addressed it at all...probably hoping it would be forgotten. Same thing with it being called a 4G phone, but it couldn't even attain 3G speeds up. They sold people on the idea that it would have the ability to access the fastest network speeds and people knew it didn't but still bought it. People *****ed, and now everyone (including your ungratefulness), got what they were told they were paying for.
A sales person may have not kept you, but it does happen more than in your case. As a matter of fact it happens fairly regularly. Usually a sales rep will lean towards one phone instead of another simply due to personal preference.
It is a great phone and great hardware without the ability to use it. This is a developers forum. If you don't want the ability to develop on this phone completely, why are you here? So you can seem all high and mighty? Maybe you're the one in the wrong forum or maybe you should just have a couple pitchers at a pub?
As far as a few sales not hurting it, that's not true at all. These phones aren't exactly flying off the shelves. As a matter of fact, this phone has a higher return rate than almost other smartphones. A returned phone costs much more overall than just not making a sale in the first place. The reason why they are going to do that is only because enough people are pissed about it that their current sales are hurting. They didn't spend money hiring people and R&D to create a locked bootloader if they didn't originally plan on keeping it locked for good.
You guys can tell people not to say anything or *****, but at the end of the day, you'll be the ones reaping the benefits of the people who did.
roharia said:
*****ing about it will not accomplish anything and a large company such as Motorola wont be hurt by a few sales and honestly if I were your Facebook friend I would still buy this gadget, you know why? Its a great phone and there is still a chance that its bootloader will be unlocked eventually...just be patient.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
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Click to collapse
*****ing won't, but asking the right questions and showing that you are not the only one who is after this definitely gets some attention.
Kane4fire,
I really like your passion, it's just about making sure your message is heard and that you don't look like a troll.
Please look at some of the work I've been doing with Motorola, it's slow going but we are getting noticed.
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/04/motorola-bootloader/
http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/26/motorola-promises-unlocked-bootloaders-for-future-android-phones/
http://www.groubal.com/motorola-lockedencrypted-bootloader-policy/
http://www.facebook.com/unlockmoto
Cheers,
Irwin
Irwin, I have been seeing a lot of your work and group and etc. Personally, I'm not 100% convinced on them unlocking the bootloader for the Atrix since all the articles stated 'late 2011 releases' and the Atrix is early 2011.
The whole point of my post was for people who do post things and have some sort of a following to actually do something and post up as well on their own avenues. If you lose your dog, you don't just tell one or two people, you tell everyone and everything you can and it creates an exponential chain of people who end up knowing about it.
I personally know for a fact that at least in a small regional area they haven't done well with the XOOM and Atrix AT ALL and much of it actually has to do with Blur and it's problems with memory usage, battery life, and general lack of UI polish. I am sure that once the figures are out it will reflect how poorly they have been doing. It's a corporation and money is their motivator/reason for existence. I am sure if they hurt enough they will bow.
kane4fire said:
Irwin, I have been seeing a lot of your work and group and etc. Personally, I'm not 100% convinced on them unlocking the bootloader for the Atrix since all the articles stated 'late 2011 releases' and the Atrix is early 2011.
The whole point of my post was for people who do post things and have some sort of a following to actually do something and post up as well on their own avenues. If you lose your dog, you don't just tell one or two people, you tell everyone and everything you can and it creates an exponential chain of people who end up knowing about it.
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Click to collapse
Absolutely. I haven't ceased any of my activities since that PR mumbo jumbo they gave me.
I have a few contacts within Motorola that are being difficult to get a hold of, so I keep sending emails, I keep calling (international calls for me), I keep my facebook group going, I keep tweeting and spreading as far as I can.
I hope you also have similar luck in spreading the word and getting people to rally to the cause, just make sure not to dilute the message too much or get people opposed to you.
Good luck my friend, it's good to see the fire burns strong for you.
kane4fire said:
Irwin, I have been seeing a lot of your work and group and etc. Personally, I'm not 100% convinced on them unlocking the bootloader for the Atrix since all the articles stated 'late 2011 releases' and the Atrix is early 2011.
The whole point of my post was for people who do post things and have some sort of a following to actually do something and post up as well on their own avenues. If you lose your dog, you don't just tell one or two people, you tell everyone and everything you can and it creates an exponential chain of people who end up knowing about it.
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Click to collapse
Not to doubt your ability to read and understand the English language, but here is the actual quote:
“Motorola will enable an unlockable/relockable bootloader, currently found on Motorola Xoom, in future software releases where carrier and operator partners will allow it,” Motorola said in a statement provided to Wired.com. “It is our intention to include the unlockable/relockable bootloader in software releases starting in late 2011.”
Is the Atrix a software release? No. Maybe they will be pushing OTA updates starting in late 2011 which will allow for this.
knigitz said:
Not to doubt your ability to read and understand the English language, but here is the actual quote:
“Motorola will enable an unlockable/relockable bootloader, currently found on Motorola Xoom, in future software releases where carrier and operator partners will allow it,” Motorola said in a statement provided to Wired.com. “It is our intention to include the unlockable/relockable bootloader in software releases starting in late 2011.”
Is the Atrix a software release? No. Maybe they will be pushing OTA updates starting in late 2011 which will allow for this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, my mistake. I haven't been able to sleep. Either way, their choice of wording still doesn't mean they will actually provide the unlock since they have to convince the carrier to unlock it. I don't know what their terms were with AT&T, but why would they need permission to unlock a bootloader when it has nothing to do with the cellular network? AT&T is obviously going to say no on the matter since it means less possible anything for them to deal with. Then again I don't know. Maybe it was apart of the deal that they would lock the bootloader as a package to offer the phone on a particular network.
kane4fire said:
Well, my mistake. I haven't been able to sleep. Either way, their choice of wording still doesn't mean they will actually provide the unlock since they have to convince the carrier to unlock it. I don't know what their terms were with AT&T, but why would they need permission to unlock a bootloader when it has nothing to do with the cellular network? AT&T is obviously going to say no on the matter since it means less possible anything for them to deal with. Then again I don't know. Maybe it was apart of the deal that they would lock the bootloader as a package to offer the phone on a particular network.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Neither you or any other Atrix owner is entitled to an unlocked bootloader from Motorola. Just saying: You're not. At the same time, you're well within your rights to crack it yourself, or just get a different phone.
Edit: I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice of Motorola to package a completely open bootloader with the Gingerbread update. It would.
This absolutely does have something to do with AT&T. The AT&T Atrix was "built" for AT&T. There are contractual agreements in place.
So if AT&T says no, that is the answer. If you want a phone with an unlocked bootloader (in this case) then you need to buy one that will be unlocked - either the carrier approved it, or maybe we see an unlocked phone that is not tied to a carrier.
If you buy an AT&T (or other carrier) branded phone, then you are going to be stuck with that carriers decisions.
chromedome00 said:
This absolutely does have something to do with AT&T. The AT&T Atrix was "built" for AT&T. There are contractual agreements in place.
So if AT&T says no, that is the answer. If you want a phone with an unlocked bootloader (in this case) then you need to buy one that will be unlocked - either the carrier approved it, or maybe we see an unlocked phone that is not tied to a carrier.
If you buy an AT&T (or other carrier) branded phone, then you are going to be stuck with that carriers decisions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You say that, but then again there are many other Android phones on AT&T that /do/ have an unlocked bootloader. Captivate, Aria, Inspire, galaxy tab and most likely the Infuse. So again, maybe AT&T doesn't care and its up to the manufacturers.
Sent from my screaming Atrix *4G* using the XDA App
I am lost......if bloatware and motoblur are the issues you have with the phone why not just get rid of or freeze the bloatware and try a different launcher or Ginger/grey blur? I haven't had to deal with motoblur for a while.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
kane4fire said:
To Motorola and for the rest of us,
For one you and hackers on here kill me most brands like moto don't make phone people to replace a bootloarer that's not in there mind in the board meeting.That being said they built a phone that a normal person can pick up and download apps from marketplace from its like buying a new 2011 car getting it home and dropping the motor and tranny the new car is ment to drive of the lot now im not saying I want my atrix bootloader locked cause I don't and my G2x is not unlocked but you can't strike against a large company like moto your little voices still mean nothing do them unless where on there board they care less.
I bought this phone originally because I read that the bootloader would be unlocked and I assumed fairly soon after. I, like most people, do not like motoblur. It is a slow, bloated, unfriendly interface that was forced upon me. Sadly, it is still forced upon me. So now that I thought I'd hold out and thought we'd get the keys, we didn't and it's too late to return this phone that had great promise.
What do I do now since I was dupped? I take away potential customers from Motorola. I've already convinced 3 of my friends not to get any of your phones and also a XOOM and who knows how many people they will tell my recommendations to?
You guys waste so much money on marketing and creating an image. This thing was suppose to blur the lines between computer and phone and you yourself are the ones who crippled that from being possible. Do you know what happens when you go to a sales agent at AT&T? They don't recommend the Atrix; a power user/person with knowledge of smartphones denies the customer from even considering it an option. Why would they do that? Because they know they can sell another phone that THEY like (easier to sell when you like it yourself) and they know the user won't come back and return against them, since they are paid commission.
Also, consider the demographic that probably bought this phone or considered it. They more than likely aren't the people who click 'Allow' when a website asks if it can install malware - those people bought iPhone's. The dual core CPU and webtop experience attracted the nerdier group - the power users and dev's - the exact people who don't want the limitations you put.
I know my post probably won't get heard by anyone important at moto but I know some of us owners/users/sympathizers will read this. The only thing I can hope is that we use the great tool we have and blog/tweet/status update/tell others. They won't listen to us, but they will listen to money. Take it away from them and they will listen.
FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS BUY MOTO! <---My facebook status and you should make it yours too!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App
Tylerjd said:
You say that, but then again there are many other Android phones on AT&T that /do/ have an unlocked bootloader. Captivate, Aria, Inspire, galaxy tab and most likely the Infuse. So again, maybe AT&T doesn't care and its up to the manufacturers.
Sent from my screaming Atrix *4G* using the XDA App
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Click to collapse
^^^ If Moto scapegoats AT&T over this, it would not be good for business.
knigitz said:
Not to doubt your ability to read and understand the English language, but here is the actual quote:
“Motorola will enable an unlockable/relockable bootloader, currently found on Motorola Xoom, in future software releases where carrier and operator partners will allow it,” Motorola said in a statement provided to Wired.com. “It is our intention to include the unlockable/relockable bootloader in software releases starting in late 2011.”
Is the Atrix a software release? No. Maybe they will be pushing OTA updates starting in late 2011 which will allow for this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's rumored that Moto will be the manufacturer for the next generation Google Nexus branded device, which is supposedly to be released ~Q4 2011. Maybe this is what they are referring to. Who knows. All I do know is that quote from moto didn't say anything about the Atrix.
nucentury08 said:
For one you and hackers on here kill me most brands like moto don't make phone people to replace a bootloarer that's not in there mind in the board meeting.That being said they built a phone that a normal person can pick up and download apps from marketplace from its like buying a new 2011 car getting it home and dropping the motor and tranny the new car is ment to drive of the lot now im not saying I want my atrix bootloader locked cause I don't and my G2x is not unlocked but you can't strike against a large company like moto your little voices still mean nothing do them unless where on there board they care less.
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Holy ****. Longest, most rambling sentence I've ever seen.
Other att phones have locked bootloaders but they where easily exploited. Htc and the other manufacturers are making them harder and harder to unlock. Att most likely is in contract with moto to keep it locked. With it locked they have more chances of making more money off the bloatware.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA Premium App
knigitz said:
Neither you or any other Atrix owner is entitled to an unlocked bootloader from Motorola. Just saying: You're not. At the same time, you're well within your rights to crack it yourself, or just get a different phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah, why should people who plunk down hundreds of dollars be able to do what they want with something they own?
the nerve of some people wanting to use their devices as they see fit.
jbe4 said:
yeah, why should people who plunk down hundreds of dollars be able to do what they want with something they own?
the nerve of some people wanting to use their devices as they see fit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You pay for the product, not the ability to tweak it to your heart's content. You don't see a $200 iPhone coming readily available to modify, do you? No. You have to jailbreak it first, if there's a jailbreak available.
As for kane's comment about motorola saying they'd unlock the bootloader from "near the beginning".... there was never such a statement that i've seen. I've seen stuff on the Motorola Owners Forum stating that a possible bootloader solution was being looked into... but nothing more than that. period.
elementaldragon said:
You pay for the product, not the ability to tweak it to your heart's content. You don't see a $200 iPhone coming readily available to modify, do you? No. You have to jailbreak it first, if there's a jailbreak available.
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Click to collapse
by paying for the product I've paid to do what I want with it - If I want to use it as a way of leveling a kitchen chair thats my prerogative.
I think its just as patently offensive that Apple does it too
regardless, Android was/is billed as the Open Source alternative specifically to address the nonsense that is the itunes store and the draconian oversight of overbearing manufacturers. To have individual manufacturers go against the spirit of what google was/is trying to accomplish when they released AndroidOS seems just a bit ridiculous, dont you think?
Related
I read that the new Motorola Droid X and Droid 2 will have digitally signed bootloaders. Which means that only approved Motorola ROMS can be flashed. I wonder how long it will be before HTC and everyone else starts doing this? This could put an end to all of our fun! Of course the cellular providers will save a lot of money if they don't have to replace all of those bricked phones. It will be interesting to see what happens to the bootloader in future OTA and Froyo updates for the DInc...
this belongs in general
Lexus One said:
This could put an end to all of our fun!
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Click to collapse
It will always be a cat and mouse game. Rarely ever ends. We always find another way around.
We should as a community all patition the cell phone companys for a truely open handset.
acezhi said:
We should as a community all patition the cell phone companys for a truely open handset.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Petitioning? What are you some kind of tree loving hippie? JK That **** never works though. Petitions, protesting, etc is for idiots who think it will accomplish something.
They are even stupider for locking these down. Sure people mess up phones trying to mod them. Now they are making ways for you to totally brick your phone. Don't they think more people will now make insurance claims even more if you try to mod your phone and mess it up.
Moved as not development.
reagianicparable said:
It will always be a cat and mouse game. Rarely ever ends. We always find another way around.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Possibly. But it takes a hell of a lot longer when you're up against encryption. You usually only win this battle if someone on the inside leaks the key. And by then there are new phones coming out and this keeps getting lower and lower on the priority list. Personally, I don't think we can win the encryption battle...
its not a new thing its a motorola thing... htc likes to give its buyers what they like.. and since we all like it a little different I dont see them locking their bootloader anytime soon... they made the nexus one which is the only true open source phone so far but they messed up on the marketing of it... all 3 phones you mention are motorola and the only htc phone I see with any kind of restriction would be the HTC aria on ATT cause you can't install 3rd party apps but that is due to ATT not HTC restrictions
two_cents said:
its not a new thing its a motorola thing... htc likes to give its buyers what they like.. and since we all like it a little different I dont see them locking their bootloader anytime soon... they made the nexus one which is the only true open source phone so far but they messed up on the marketing of it... all 3 phones you mention are motorola and the only htc phone I see with any kind of restriction would be the HTC aria on ATT cause you can't install 3rd party apps but that is due to ATT not HTC restrictions
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Granted, HTC *may* never lock their bootloader, but what is to stop Verizon from demanding it? Verizon is permitting it in the Motorola. What if this turns out to be a profit maximizer for them? Could HTC next? Time will tell...
I don't see locking up phones as a way to "make money" if anything it will alienate your customer/developer base and no one will buy the phones with the locked bootloaders. Especially if HTC doesn't trend up and continues to be a nice company. Motorola has already LOST A LOT of preorders on there Droid X because of the encrypted bootloader. Doesn't matter...they can't seem to keep them in stock anyway. Good riddens to a WAY to large handset with a crappy UI overlay.
What it boils down to is PROFIT. Verizon will weigh the revenues and decide with their pocketbooks. It doesn't make any difference whether HTC likes it or not. Verizon calls the shots. If HTC says no, they're gone. Samsung or LG or someone else will pick up the slack. As for losing customers, it doesn't matter. Money is what matters. Just ask any of our greed driven cellular companies if you don't believe me. Personally, I don't think there are that many people who re-flash their ROMS and would care if the bootloader is locked or not. I think we are a very small percentage of the total.
Honestly77 said:
I don't see locking up phones as a way to "make money" if anything it will alienate your customer/developer base and no one will buy the phones with the locked bootloaders. Especially if HTC doesn't trend up and continues to be a nice company. Motorola has already LOST A LOT of preorders on there Droid X because of the encrypted bootloader. Doesn't matter...they can't seem to keep them in stock anyway. Good riddens to a WAY to large handset with a crappy UI overlay.
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Click to collapse
I think you may be overestimating the percentage of android users who are interested in rooting their phones. Motorola will make a tiny bit less money on phone sales, but they will also lose less money on unnecessary replacements.
TNS201 said:
Petitioning? What are you some kind of tree loving hippie? JK That **** never works though. Petitions, protesting, etc is for idiots who think it will accomplish something.
They are even stupider for locking these down. Sure people mess up phones trying to mod them. Now they are making ways for you to totally brick your phone. Don't they think more people will now make insurance claims even more if you try to mod your phone and mess it up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just adding to it. Not saying petitioning and protesting would work, but:
Petitioning and protesting only work through fear. When it's you > the company, then the company will give in. If we have 20 thousand people say that we want truly open handsets, they still won't, because they know theres another hundred thousand that will still buy it. If they fear that if having a locked handset will make them no sales unless they give in, then they will.
Motorola tried leaving it unlocked with the Driod, but then, for whatever reasons, they locked the bootloader in the X. Why do you suppose Motorola would do this? Do they have incompetent marketing people? Remember they have the numbers...we don't. So we can only guess as to why they chose the way they did. Perhaps Verizon had something to do with it? I can't wait to see what they do to the bootloader in the next OTA for the DI.
Asterdroid said:
I think you may be overestimating the percentage of android users who are interested in rooting their phones. Motorola will make a tiny bit less money on phone sales, but they will also lose less money on unnecessary replacements.
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Click to collapse
I agree with the notion that the vast majority of android users are not interested in rooting their phones; however, i think that the frequency with which carriers replace phones bricked due to customization is overestimated. I mean I have flashed customs ROMs, radios, recovery images, etc. onto my N1 and my DI dozens upon dozens of times and never run into a problem that couldn't be fixed with a battery pull and a restore (at the most). In contrast, I bricked three iphone 3GS's in six months while attempting to customize them. Obviously, apple is notorious for locking their **** down, so I am not convinced that the notion that verizon will have to replace fewer X's than, say, DI's holds water
does motorola have to give us full control on our device now since this came out says we should be able to do whatever we want right?I know its mainly for iphone but it says iphones and other devices
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/27/technology/27iphone.html?src=mv
The short answer is No, they don't.
While they basically have no recourse if we do root their devices, they have no obligation to allow us to do so. Also they (the manf.) have evry right to put protections in place to attempt to not allow thier devices to be rooted.
frycook15 said:
does motorola have to give us full control on our device now since this came out says we should be able to do whatever we want right?I know its mainly for iphone but it says iphones and other devices
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/27/technology/27iphone.html?src=mv
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That was, um.... interesting. I had no this issue had reached a legal victory. I think it just means you can do whatever you want on your own hardware and share it with others without fear of legal reprise. Doesnt mean Moto's going to suddenly set up a how to on root on their website.
No. They also do not have to fix your phone even if you rooted it and that is terms for voiding the contract.
All this did was confirm people have property rights.
Motorola legally don't have to give us control, the article is stated that as a consumer you can do what ever you want with your phone expect for illegal action that wont result in a lawsuit by the Company because you modified their device that is now yours.
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
I really don't see any problems with rooting your own phone and i hate that company's like verizon and motorola lock down an open source os, so only their programs work on it. Like the wifi tether, verizon trying to charge $20 when its a feature the phone can do for free.
Its kinda pointless for them to fight it because if we pay for a$ 600 phone you better be damn sure i am going to do what i want with it when i want to.
Plus i think that the only reason motorola locked the bootloader is because verizon asked them to. Motorola os.making no extra money out of doing. Verizon has all the gain in whether to let root or other programs work.
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
I would say this more or less only affects people who root/JB phones (people like the iPhone dev-team, who actually release tools/methods of rooting/JB'ing). The common jailbreaker/rooter isn't going to actually get sued over it. People who make tools that allow everyone else to, may actually get sued (which now they can't?). =p
AaronsDarts said:
I really don't see any problems with rooting your own phone and i hate that company's like verizon and motorola lock down an open source os, so only their programs work on it. Like the wifi tether, verizon trying to charge $20 when its a feature the phone can do for free.
Its kinda pointless for them to fight it because if we pay for a$ 600 phone you better be damn sure i am going to do what i want with it when i want to.
Plus i think that the only reason motorola locked the bootloader is because verizon asked them to. Motorola os.making no extra money out of doing. Verizon has all the gain in whether to let root or other programs work.
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
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This is the same tech that is in all omap phones. And was in place on the "open" version of the droid. The milestone. Moto and verizon would and did know that locking the bootloader would NOT prevent tethering.
The locked bootloader is to protect moto's intellectual property that they have invested on their platform. As well as preventing having to deal with returns of screwed up phones, from badly flashed phones.
It's motos right to do it. Just the same as its your right to crack it.
People really need to learn the real meaning of open source, as well as the difference between rooting and a locked bootloader.
Don't like it? Get another device on another network.
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
omnifox said:
This is the same tech that is in all omap phones. And was in place on the "open" version of the droid. The milestone. Moto and verizon would and did know that locking the bootloader would NOT prevent tethering.
The locked bootloader is to protect moto's intellectual property that they have invested on their platform. As well as preventing having to deal with returns of screwed up phones, from badly flashed phones.
It's motos right to do it. Just the same as its your right to crack it.
People really need to learn the real meaning of open source, as well as the difference between rooting and a locked bootloader.
Don't like it? Get another device on another network.
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
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Click to collapse
This guy is 100% correct. It was mostly about protecting THEIR ROM, they cannot patent any part of their ROM specifically the resizable widgets, so they most likely didn't want custom ROMs out there able to do it and specifically delaying others from doing it and apparently HTC and Samsung seem to have no interest in it.
I dont see why phone manufacturers think they have the right to lock us down and dictate what software we can run on the phone. We purchase the phone for $500-600, its legally ours. I should be able to run any OS or software on it that I choose to. Nobody dictates what software or OS I can or can't run on my desktop computer, and if they did try to, the Justice Dept or the EU would be all over them like a cheap suit suing them and fining them like crazy. So where do these phone manf's get the gall to do it??
I think there needs to be a class action lawsuit against one phone manufacturer. It would scare others in to backing off this assanine behavior.
omnifox said:
It's motos right to do it. Just the same as its your right to crack it.
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I have to disagree here. It is not their right to lock the phone down so severely so as to dictate to me that the only OS I can run on the phone has to come directly from them and be digitally signed by them.
Dell doesnt tell me what OS I can run on my computer. And they sure as hell dont have the right to lock it down so that the only OS and only updates must come from them, thats ILLEGAL! And is on phones too, after all, they are just mini computers now. All it will take is one legal challenge to this and it will stop. I'm waiting to hear the FCC's stance on this (of course those crooks are all in ATT and VZW back pockets).
derek4484 said:
I have to disagree here. It is not their right to lock the phone down so severely so as to dictate to me that the only OS I can run on the phone has to come directly from them and be digitally signed by them.
Dell doesnt tell me what OS I can run on my computer. And they sure as hell dont have the right to lock it down so that the only OS and only updates must come from them, thats ILLEGAL! And is on phones too, after all, they are just mini computers now. All it will take is one legal challenge to this and it will stop. I'm waiting to hear the FCC's stance on this (of course those crooks are all in ATT and VZW back pockets).
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I like your thinking; Is there anything us "smaller" people can do to help the cause? I guess I am thinking something along the lines of a suggestions box to the fcc or something.....
Anyways, it would be sweet to see Motorola unlock this phone themselves with an OTA update.... I might Jizz My Pants...
I still cannot believe how cell companies are able to get away with their behavior in the US, if you've ever been overseas you'd see what I'm talking about.
Phone companies there are EAGER to get your business so they will allow you to use any phone on their network, as long as the frequency of the radio is compatible.
For example (using US companies: Sprint would allow you to take the droid X on their network just to have your business
FtL1776 said:
This guy is 100% correct. It was mostly about protecting THEIR ROM, they cannot patent any part of their ROM specifically the resizable widgets, so they most likely didn't want custom ROMs out there able to do it and specifically delaying others from doing it and apparently HTC and Samsung seem to have no interest in it.
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Click to collapse
Except that a locked bootloader doesn't prevent you from taking the framework and other files OFF of the phone, just prevents you from putting a custom ROM ON the phone.
There are some devs working on extracting blur pieces, but from what I've read so far, it's pretty inter-twined, much like HTC's Sense framework.
Yes, I know that Motorola has 'Said' the bootloader is locked to protect their IP, and that VZW has nothing to do with it. And of course, we all read this on the internet, so it must be true.
I think it's reasonable to conclude that Moto has self interests in mind here as well. But to think that VZW doesn't have an 'opinion' on this is just plain naive. I'll give you three guesses (and the first two won't count) as to whether the official VZW froyo release has wi-fi tethering included, or if it's been disabled.
derek4484 said:
I have to disagree here. It is not their right to lock the phone down so severely so as to dictate to me that the only OS I can run on the phone has to come directly from them and be digitally signed by them.
Dell doesnt tell me what OS I can run on my computer. And they sure as hell dont have the right to lock it down so that the only OS and only updates must come from them, thats ILLEGAL! And is on phones too, after all, they are just mini computers now. All it will take is one legal challenge to this and it will stop. I'm waiting to hear the FCC's stance on this (of course those crooks are all in ATT and VZW back pockets).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
cbaty08 said:
I like your thinking; Is there anything us "smaller" people can do to help the cause? I guess I am thinking something along the lines of a suggestions box to the fcc or something.....
Anyways, it would be sweet to see Motorola unlock this phone themselves with an OTA update.... I might Jizz My Pants...
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Of course it is there right to produce the phone to their specs. If you don't like the software or their configuration, don't buy it. The marketplace rules here. When/if enough people care about this issue (and I hate to say it, but people like us are a vocal minority in the large picture of phone buyers), then it will change. So long as you voluntarily pay the money, don't expect any them to do any different. Did they not say exactly that in regards to this issue? I Believe the quote was something to effect of 'buy a different phone if you want to load custom roms.'
sp1kez said:
I still cannot believe how cell companies are able to get away with their behavior in the US, if you've ever been overseas you'd see what I'm talking about.
Phone companies there are EAGER to get your business so they will allow you to use any phone on their network, as long as the frequency of the radio is compatible.
For example (using US companies: Sprint would allow you to take the droid X on their network just to have your business
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Click to collapse
Most consumers in the U.S. are not willing to pay full price for these phones. We 'demand' a subsidized phone cost (ie, $199.00 for a $600.00 Droid X).
Expect more of the same until people are willing to pay the full cost of the phone.
Zaphod-Beeblebrox said:
Most consumers in the U.S. are not willing to pay full price for these phones. We 'demand' a subsidized phone cost (ie, $199.00 for a $600.00 Droid X).
Expect more of the same until people are willing to pay the full cost of the phone.
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I'd pay the full price of the phone up front if that meant no contract + lower monthly bill. However none of the major US carriers offer that option except for t-mobile.
Wrong can buy full price without a contRact on verizon
Sent from my FroyoEris using XDA App
xmunk said:
Wrong can buy full price without a contRact on verizon
Sent from my FroyoEris using XDA App
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Verizon won't give you a lower monthly bill...
derek4484 said:
I have to disagree here. It is not their right to lock the phone down so severely so as to dictate to me that the only OS I can run on the phone has to come directly from them and be digitally signed by them.
Dell doesnt tell me what OS I can run on my computer. And they sure as hell dont have the right to lock it down so that the only OS and only updates must come from them, thats ILLEGAL! And is on phones too, after all, they are just mini computers now. All it will take is one legal challenge to this and it will stop. I'm waiting to hear the FCC's stance on this (of course those crooks are all in ATT and VZW back pockets).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What is with people and this stupid mental disorder of "get the government involved," crap, specifically when you cite the wrong bureaucracy shows that you're a moron.
As the ruling has said, what happens on the phone once you jailbreak it, as long as it is received legally, there is no crime committed, preventing you from jail breaking is not illegal and never should be, seriously you have to be a retard if you believe the government should be involved in stopping how programs are coded and locked, if Verizon doesn't want you to be tethering without you paying them for that, that is THEIR right, it's their property.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/220966/no_lte_for_rooted_motorola_xooms.html
This article paints a rather oblique picture yet it goes hand in hand with Motorola's M.O. Needless to say, the device can always be unrooted, but it still sucks...
egzthunder1 said:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/220966/no_lte_for_rooted_motorola_xooms.html
This article paints a rather oblique picture yet it goes hand in hand with Motorola's M.O. Needless to say, the device can always be unrooted, but it still sucks...
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Yeah I saw that. I mean really, are they going to make a big stink about that? That would mean they are prying into your personal info which is why this whole sending in to get the upgrade crap sucks. They should not even turn it on.
keitht said:
Yeah I saw that. I mean really, are they going to make a big stink about that? That would mean they are prying into your personal info which is why this whole sending in to get the upgrade crap sucks. They should not even turn it on.
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Unless there is a software upgrade required for the 4G to work and if its rooted the update won't apply correctly. It should be simple enough to revert it to stock before sending it in though.
How is this different than any other device? lol people have been having to unroot their phones for years in order to send back in for repair/service/etc...
imo moto needs to get their panties out of a knot and relax when it comes to hackers
pretty much only techie people will root their phones and install custom firmware not your average joe, if its anything they should let the techies do their thing while still offering services like this(upgrades only NOT repairs)
The moderator from motorola wasnt reffering to the 4g upgrade he meant software otas
Yeah, Matt was referring to ota updates. I frequent the support forums over at motorola, and he said when he gets more info that he will put it out. I covered it in the sticky post this morning after I read that news article. Sorry, posting from my phone, or I would givea link to the forum post where he covered that issue.
generic.imitation said:
Yeah, Matt was referring to ota updates. I frequent the support forums over at motorola, and he said when he gets more info that he will put it out. I covered it in the sticky post this morning after I read that news article. Sorry, posting from my phone, or I would givea link to the forum post where he covered that issue.
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Ill save you the trouble
https://supportforums.motorola.com/thread/45865?tstart=0
Read post 6
A friend and I got into a discussion about the very same thing but the subject was about WHO really owns what you bought.
If you think about this, anything YOU buy outright with hard earned greenbacks, is NOT really yours to begin with. Everything today comes with a WARRANTY and legal DISCLAIMERS with any product you buy these days, it essentially says that said product will be covered as long as you don't abuse said product in it's ORIGINAL MANUFACTURED STATE !
It's funny but when you really think about this and life, it sucks !
Who could ever imagine that that piece of land with garbage and tires and whatnot, could make someone RICH by landscaping it into a CEMETERY. You go rent a small portion of dirt so when your time comes, you have some place where they could bury you, how IRONIC ! especially when you have to pay for upkeep costs.
Just follow the Re-locking instructions in this [GUIDE] Unlocking (& Re-locking) the Motorola Xoom for flashing thread and all is good?
wnrussell said:
Just follow the Re-locking instructions in this [GUIDE] Unlocking (& Re-locking) the Motorola Xoom for flashing thread and all is good?
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I would be careful relocking. I've heard of a few people bricking their phones (no adb, no fastboot, no recovery) trying to flash back to stock. Wait around a bit longer for the process to get ironed out IMO.
none of my $$ for moto anyway
Not sure why this is such a surprise. I wouldn't expect Motorola to service a rooted, or hacked device in any way.. nor would I expect that from HTC, Samsung, LG.. you get the point.
Now if they had some super secret chip that can tell if was EVER rooted and were denying upgrades.. THAT would be news. (But still not a surprise)
Regardless, since Motorola wants to be a bunch of pricks about their hardware (Atrix).. They will never see a dime from me unless this policy changes (Atrix).. and even then.. it may simply be too late. I believe in the power of the consumer and I just wish everyone else did.
MOTO is just below Sony and Apple on my SH$^% list. I was already boycotting Sony over their Playstation policy and the devices general crappyness, but Suing George Hotz for hacking a device HE purchased AND owns, and THEN making a motion (and winning) to seize and rifle through all of George's personal computers and data storage devices that he also owns is the epitome of hypocritical. I wont even PAY to see a Movie if Sony Pictures is involved.. (Thanks Bit-Torrent).
Sorry.. straying off topic.. So If you care about having the best hardware and it's made by a company who treats their customers like crap.. you have 2 choices.. 1) Buy the hardware anyway, and settle for being treated like crap, or 2) Settle for lesser hardware from a company you don't mind giving your money to.
While they had a rocky start... I'm looking forward to giving my money to Notion Ink for their Adam Tablet (as soon as they manufacturer enough to begin selling them again). They make solid hardware, and while the software needs improvement.. They are promising Honeycomb and they seem to have embraced the modders and hackers who make the device better. I hope it lasts.
Hope everyone's enjoying their xooms. That's what you get for buying one knowing Moto's policies. Let's keep sending money to the very company that's trying to strip us of our rights. Surely, that will change their policies.
For those still wondering, the thread has been updated by Motorola clarifying the issue.
All Motorola XOOM tablets on the Verizon Wireless network are eligible to receive an upgrade to support 4G LTE. This includes those that have been unlocked; however, those units must be submitted for upgrade with the original factory software reinstalled and the device relocked in order to receive the upgrade.
For devices that are returned unlocked, Motorola will attempt to complete the upgrade, but may be unable to update the software. In these cases, the device will be returned to the consumer with just the 4G LTE modem installed.
More details on the process will be available closer to the upgrade availability.
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I can't post the direct link as I'm still a new user, but it's post #42 in the linked thread.
it will be upgraded
https://supportforums.motorola.com/thread/45865?start=30&tstart=0
http://thenextweb.com/mobile/2012/0...sh-over-transformer-primes-locked-bootloader/
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using xda premium
Wrong forum, that is about the new transformer prime, not the original transformer
Yea I know just wanted anyone know who might want to get the prime... also for future products/updates they might release..
sent from epic 4g
Original Transformer also has locked bootloader. Just lucky for most of us the key was leaked.
Nullinvoid said:
Wrong forum, that is about the new transformer prime, not the original transformer
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Its very pertinent here.
Sent from my Nexus S using xda premium
However the Prime forums are in a bit of an uproar about it.
As I am opposed to locked/encrypted bootloaders I post this link so we may all let Asus know that we don't want to see any more of encrypted bootloaders.
Tweeted as requested! Seems prime has more enthusiasts than we do right now.
Sent from my Nexus S using xda premium
God I really hate these internet mediastorm campaigns full of spotty teenagers complaining about crap like this and starting Facebook petitions and all to try and change corporate decisions. They flood blogs and news sites will their crap.
Go buy an Xoom if it really bothers you that much.
Comments like this really are embarrassing (not for Asus, but the whole human race).
Jermiah Fortier
Unlock this Bootloader on the prime you scumbags.
I bought this device and I demand I be allowed to use it. I will be advising everyone that I know is in the market for a tablet to avoid Asus until something is done.
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Click to collapse
Someone want to tell him he can already USE it..... He makes it sound like a power-on password. If anything unlocking the bootloader will REDUCE functionality, as it would almost certainly mean you would no longer have a secure device that could rent content, any unlocking would remove DRM keys.
Both my devices are rooted with unlocked bootloaders, however I don't DEMAND it, I research the products and buy the ones that allow it (or have leaked keys). Had the Asus not had the bootloader keys leaked, I would have bought something else (Xoom for eample). Let market forces dictate, not dumb Facebook and mediastorm bullcrap.
Got to love our first world problems. I'd much rather worry about a locked bootloader digital device then where im going to get my next meal or whether we have fresh water for the children . Send all these whining kids to south Africa or the Philippines, mayybe have them digging fighting holes in Afghanistan or building ffp 's... that will add some perspective to their "PROBLEMS"
Carry on
Sent from my SGH-I997 using XDA App
theraffman said:
Got to love our first world problems. I'd much rather worry about a locked bootloader digital device then where im going to get my next meal or whether we have fresh water for the children . Send all these whining kids to south Africa or the Philippines, mayybe have them digging fighting holes in Afghanistan or building ffp 's... that will add some perspective to their "PROBLEMS"
Carry on
Sent from my SGH-I997 using XDA App
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Spot on. My sentiments exactly. It's interesting this form of internet crybaby attitude seems to be almost entirely American of origin.
CrazyPeter said:
Spot on. My sentiments exactly. It's interesting this form of internet crybaby attitude seems to be almost entirely American of origin.
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Indeed, methinks mommy and daddy didnt ever tell these idiots 'no'.
However, whilst i dont really appreciate people whingeining so much about this, no doubt the prime will get its leaked bootloader key sometime soon. Patience it seems is fast becoming a uncommon virtue.
The thing that bugs me about this whole bootloader thing is that pure Android devices like the Nexus range dont have this and google have said they dont approve of it but cant do anything about what other manufacturers do in this regard.
Some of the comments are a bit stupid and obviously by people who dont even know what they are talking about .
Regardless now anyway as Asus have announced they will provide an unlocking tool.
This is also good for TF101 users on SBKv2 as im damn sure they will also allow unlocking this too.
Great result i think !!
This is from engadget
"Lastly, ASUS explains that the locked bootloader is essential for access to content from Google's video market thanks to DRM restrictions, but it promises an unlock utility is in the work for those who want it."
http://www.engadget.com/2012/01/03/ice-cream-sandwich-coming-to-the-transformer-prime-january-12th/
mllk said:
This is from engadget
"Lastly, ASUS explains that the locked bootloader is essential for access to content from Google's video market thanks to DRM restrictions, but it promises an unlock utility is in the work for those who want it."
http://www.engadget.com/2012/01/03/ice-cream-sandwich-coming-to-the-transformer-prime-january-12th/
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Click to collapse
There is more to the story than what was published here. It appears that along with the unlocked bootloader, will come the inability to use some DRM protected audio and video content. It will be a trade off.
Rumbleweed said:
There is more to the story than what was published here. It appears that along with the unlocked bootloader, will come the inability to use some DRM protected audio and video content. It will be a trade off.
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Click to collapse
And the same internet crybabies will be launching a campaign to try and shame Asus into allowing them to have a unlocked bootloader AND be able to rip the DRM from video rentals, they will also force them to make the next Asus Transformer 3 also have an inbuilt coffee maker and toenail clipping facility.
I hate how the internet and social media gives a vocal minority an overinflated ego that allows them to blackmail companies to conform to their whims.
Well, you can call me crybaby, but I'm happy with the result of this campaign. You seem to be crying much more that all of us so called "crybabies" now in this thread. If you don't approve - no need to call people names. And if we all allow in silence for devices to be more and more locked one day we wouldn't have a choice to buy sth else because all of them would be locked.
Magnesus said:
Original Transformer also has locked bootloader. Just lucky for most of us the key was leaked.
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Sorry for OT, but when was the key leaked? I am new to the Tf101 and didn't here a Word about that. Could you post a link to confirm that, or sth. like that?
Magnesus said:
Well, you can call me crybaby, but I'm happy with the result of this campaign. You seem to be crying much more that all of us so called "crybabies" now in this thread. If you don't approve - no need to call people names. And if we all allow in silence for devices to be more and more locked one day we wouldn't have a choice to buy sth else because all of them would be locked.
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Sorry, but I have not felt the need to engineer a social media ****storm like you lot have arranged, where a vocal minority are pretending to be MUCH louder than they actually are.
If you really dislike locked bootloaders, then Tegra2 and Tegra3 platforms are not for you, as they are ALL locked using the same 128bit AES key, as it's part of the NVidia chipset.
The only tablet I am aware of that uses Tegra2 that allows unlocking is the Xoom, if you feel that strongly, don't buy Asus, but Xoom instead.
im sorry but im sure the group of people who want their devices unlocked is not a small percentage from the research ive done on android a good half of android owners are likely rooted.
the people who dont root are usually, not always but usually the people who dont know how or what it is. for your average joe user a locked bootloader means nothing now at least,(if we allow manufacturers to continue to take administrator rights away from the owner the owner will have no control what runs or doesnt run on their device). most users who are technically knowledged in computers are against locked bootloaders even if they dnt feel rooting is neccessary with asus' device(they did a good job at adding the features that were lacking due to a locked device)
ANYONE who sticks up for locked bootloaders on any computer or personal device doesnt have a clue...manufacturers are taking away your rights to do whatever you want with your device. there has already been federal judges state that changing software on a device should not void a warranty. if the tools that should be available are available then software problems can be fixed by the consumer but the manufacturer would lose money from people that would just maintain and repair their devices themselves. im sorry but it is VERY VERYimprobable that software of anykind can damage hardware. i dont think it can at all unless the tools to completely wipe a device and reload its software are non existent.
these manufacturers are only concerned with money not the customers at all. these decisions are made with greed as the driving factor.
and obviously the community that wants the rights to their devices must not be small or asud would have paid no attention....and htc who is now unlocking their devices heard that communities requests as well.
and very simple with a locked bootloader the manufacturer can put any tracking, or spyware on the device they want and the users wouldnt even know. that alone is enough to say no....i do agree with those who say if you want an unlocked device the buy a different tablet and i agree, and i think if that happened then companies like asus sales would definetly fall and companies would see and react to it. i believe this is one way to get manufacturers to listen to the community.
but when i bought my transformer i was told by commercials the salesman, and the android specifications and just the fact its open source, that my device was open sourced and developer freindly. an open source software that run on a locked device is just an oxymoron i guess that the word anyway.
i do feel honestly i was mislead to a degree and in the future i will not purchase a device until i confirm i get full administratir rights to my device. and i hope all other android users do the same..i absolutely love my asus and i would hate to have to make my choice on rights to do what i want with my device rather than the specs and quality of the device.
any device that has files i cant see change or remove is not truly my device its whoever has controll of it letting me use what they deem is ok.
and the low blow to americans was uncalled for but id have to say we are raised from birth believing we have the right to freedom and that includes our devices, and i really dontr think thats wrong what i do believe is wrong is anyone who accepts their freedoms being taken from them and then stcking up for the one who is taking those freedoms away. talk about silly
i really have no intentions of upsetting anyone with this and it is a general statement not directed to anyone other than asus really, im just stating my opinion and i believe thats another right we have. no one has to agree with me and i dont expect them to EVERYONE IS ENTITLED TO AN OPINION. without being attacked for it
Sure enough Asus came through with the requests!
https://twitter.com/Motorola/status/607934001500852224 so yeah, fellow Turbo owners. Lets blow this up tonight and show we arent a tiny fragment of Moto users. Or not. The reality is we need to make our voices heard. Maybe Moto will listen. Probably not. But hey, its live. Might be fun.
Stock is... stock. It's the closest thing to vanilla android without buying a nexus, which is what I wanted.
If you wanted something more exciting, you should've bought a more exciting phone.
I'm guessing that the OP means an unlocked bootloader and root access for custom ROMs, that kind of stock boring like stuffs...
SirBindy said:
Stock is... stock. It's the closest thing to vanilla android without buying a nexus, which is what I wanted.
If you wanted something more exciting, you should've bought a more exciting phone.
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Indeed. Unfortunately, I didn't buy this phone. Moto sent it as a replacement for my Dev Maxx. The Turbo owners that dont have the same mentality perhaps would agree. it blows to be stuck if you want more than that out of android. isnt that what android is supposed to be? open, free?
@Wynnded is hitting the nail on the head. best hardware ive owned. the software is my qualm.
here is the reality, though: Bootloader unlock isnt allowed due to Verizon not wanting to give support (and replacements) once the inexperienced do something dumb. (flash wrong device files, delete partitions that are necessary, etc). while i can understand that angle, i, and most people that frequent this site, am/are knowledgeable enough to not end up with a brick, and also, in that event, would never turn to VZW or Moto for help, as they are useless. Aesthetically, this phone is great. Hardware (minus those pesky qfuses) this is a great device. i love the Turbo. Having no justifiable reason for bootloader unlock to be disallowed is just bad business. our very small, in representation and subsequent consideration group accepts these practices. i for one, will buy no more Moto devices, period after this one, unless they remember what a developer edition Droid is. if i have to buy a license, or void my warranty, so be it. Both Verizon and Moto should care about the impact to the brand.
Want to help? Cool. Dont? also cool. Just remember, no one ever changed anything for the better sitting by complacently. #unlockthedroids
edit: okay, so perhaps i should have said no more Moto on VZW, as I cannot stand the thought of not having their antennae quality..
#pacifists
Easy fix
What they should do is allow you to opt out of manufacturer warranty and insurance in trade for unlocks. I would happily give those things up as I have such a rare need for them especially in the days of glass screen protectors and repair options
kitcostantino said:
here is the reality, though: Bootloader unlock isnt allowed due to Verizon not wanting to give support (and replacements) once the inexperienced do something dumb. (flash wrong device files, delete partitions that are necessary, etc). while i can understand that angle, i, and most people that frequent this site, am/are knowledgeable enough to not end up with a brick, and also, in that event, would never turn to VZW or Moto for help, as they are useless. Aesthetically, this phone is great. Hardware (minus those pesky qfuses) this is a great device. i love the Turbo. Having no justifiable reason for bootloader unlock to be disallowed is just bad business. our very small, in representation and subsequent consideration group accepts these practices. i for one, will buy no more Moto devices, period after this one, unless they remember what a developer edition Droid is. if i have to buy a license, or void my warranty, so be it. Both Verizon and Moto should care about the impact to the brand.
Want to help? Cool. Dont? also cool. Just remember, no one ever changed anything for the better sitting by complacently. #unlockthedroids
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Yes but your qualms have been discussed IN LARGE with Verizon multiple times in the past. The locked bootloader has NOTHING to do with Motorola. Hence why all their other devices outsize VZW are unlockable. Getting verbal with VZW or Moto will do literally nothing. You're not the first one to try and "change the world". Here's the simple break-down - VERIZON WOULD RATHER NOT CARRY THE DEVICE AT ALL THAN ALLOW THE BOOTLOADER UNLOCKED ON THEIR NETWORK. PERIOD. They would also 100% rather you leave their network than unlock a device. They've made it very very very very very VERY clear. If you threaten to "unlock my bootloader or I'm gone!" they'll gladly sweep your a$$ right out the door and laugh at you the whole way out. The second thing you're misinterpreting is that while it may seem the rooting/roming crowd is large and lots of people on XDA etc, fact of the matter is that Verizon has 135,000,000 subscribers. 135 MILLION!! Guess how many actually want an unlocked bootloader? Lets say there are thousands!? Lets say 10,000 (very largely over-exaggerated number). That means that even if you manage to get to that 10,000 figure, you're thinking that 0.000074% of users are going to think they're verbal/angry enough to change the policy...... Think again. Its partially why the Nexus 4 and Nexus 5 devices were shunned away by VZW, and one (of the many) issues they had with the Galaxy Nexus. Also why they tried to not carry the Nexus 7 (remember that wonderful delay?).
Don't get me wrong, I probably want unlocked bootloaders more than you do. But don't buy devices from VZW expecting anything other than what the delivered software configuration will allow you. Be thankful you were even given the option of a Nexus 6, it'll likely be the last unlockable device for another 3 years.
I had started typing and quoting in a douchebag fashion that reminded me of someone else. ( @LeoD you know what i mean)
The short version is this, man. I didn't buy the Turbo. I was "upgraded" to it. (see above). Do I think i make a difference directly? nope. I think I am (and most of us here as well are) the kind of person who drives tech outlets to report new devices. I am the guy everyone I know asks first what to buy. Sure, my $100/month isnt much. Ultimately, I am a customer. You want my business or you dont. When I shelled out $700 for a Dev Edition, I had that in mind. I could have bought anything. I chose Moto. I chose Verizon because their network is superior. There always is a balance or tradeoff. Moto dev sucks? Cool. Next. HTC? Sony? Samsung? LG? We have no shortage of hardware. I can learn to live with Wifi. Hell, i don't answer my phone when it rings most of the time. As far as the hooplah about Nexus devices and Verizon, the one thing to look at is the fact that the Nexus 6 is completely unlockable and unfettered on VZW. We can thank google for that, though, i am sure. I would love a Nexus 6 at this point.
I may want bl unlock just a hair more than you, brother.
TechSavvy2 said:
Y the matter is that Verizon has 135,000,000 subscribers. 135 MILLION!! Guess how many actually want an unlocked bootloader? Lets say there are thousands!? Lets say 10,000 (very largely over-exaggerated number). That means that even if you manage to get to that 10,000 figure, you're thinking that 0.000074% of users are going to think they're verbal/angry enough to change the policy...... Think again. Its partially why the Nexus 4 and Nexus 5 devices were shunned away by VZW, and one (of the many) issues they had with the Galaxy Nexus. Also why they tried to not carry the Nexus 7 (remember that wonderful delay?).
Don't get me wrong, I probably want unlocked bootloaders more than you do. But don't buy devices from VZW expecting anything other than what the delivered software configuration will allow you. Be thankful you were even given the option of a Nexus 6, it'll likely be the last unlockable device for another 3 years.
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Small numbers can have big business impact. See social media. An act such as shaming on Twitter CAN have larger PR consequences, especially if other tech media take up the refrain.
Some businesses actually LOOK for alpha individuals (there's word I can't find right now) who help shape decisions of people in their social circle and they get freebies to plug that company. Some early YouTube "shopping stars" cashed in on that. Same concept.
Verizon may be huge and arrogant, but T-mobile is the young/hip crowd. If Verizon wants to change that perception -- perhaps if the T-mobile/Dish merger goes through and causes more competition -- then Verizon would consider some adjustments for a people like us who spread word of mouth to friends/relatives about what to buy/not to buy.
I am extremely surprised the Nexus 6 is not only allowed on Verizon (thank the FCC), but sold by Verizon (not sure why).
I had started typing and quoting in a douchebag fashion that reminded me of someone else. ( @LeoD you know what i mean)
Rotflmao!!
I had a difficult time keeping my coffee down while reading this.
On topic tho, I also believe we should not just go quietly into the night. Big changes are almost always started in small numbers. Thankfully.
The problem is that VZW does not want to give customers anything that they could charge them for. Which really is odd that they don't let us buy a bootloader unlock, but odds are that it would be less revenue then what they make off selling tethering. If it came with less drawbacks for them then positives they would let us unlock in a heartbeat. VZW is a full slave to the $ pound, and won't do a dang thing unless it gets them more $.
Sadly I speak cooperate a bit better than I wish I did, so I bet it would end up being something like this to unlock your bootloader.
- Must not have unlimited data plan.
- Must have tethering data plan.
- Void any and all warranty
- $50 one time pay for Verizon device bootloader unlock.
- Device must be fully paid for.
- Must install custom Verizon recovery.
I'm sure they would think of something else to tack onto it so as to cost us more $.
TechSavvy2 said:
The locked bootloader has NOTHING to do with Motorola.
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All Moto has to do is designate or sell a Developer Edition to comply with the agreement VZW and Moto have in regard to Bootloader Unlock. Well, and grow a pair against VZW and sell to all the other carriers. I bet they are kicking themselves for making any concessions for Verizon looking at the global sales of the Moto Maxx xt1225 versus the Droid Turbo.
TechSavvy2 said:
VERIZON WOULD RATHER NOT CARRY THE DEVICE AT ALL THAN ALLOW THE BOOTLOADER UNLOCKED ON THEIR NETWORK. PERIOD.
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NEXUS 6 what?
TechSavvy2 said:
They would also 100% rather you leave their network than unlock a device. They've made it very very very very very VERY clear. If you threaten to "unlock my bootloader or I'm gone!" they'll gladly sweep your a$$ right out the door and laugh at you the whole way out.
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Yes. Me and my $100/month *can* in fact go elsewhere. No big loss to their corporate dividends. Ultimately, I am their customer, and if they have no interest in retention (i have no delusion here, man), then my money will be spent elsewhere.
TechSavvy2 said:
The second thing you're misinterpreting is that while it may seem the rooting/roming crowd is large and lots of people on XDA etc, fact of the matter is that Verizon has 135,000,000 subscribers. 135 MILLION!! Guess how many actually want an unlocked bootloader? Lets say there are thousands!? Lets say 10,000 (very largely over-exaggerated number). That means that even if you manage to get to that 10,000 figure, you're thinking that 0.000074% of users are going to think they're verbal/angry enough to change the policy......
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Indeed, if my intent were to speak sharply and pound my fist at them, there would be no reason to make such a small subset of people happy. My intent, however, is to plant seeds in the minds of others. In an average year, I advise somewhere in the realm of 20-30 people on phones, services, etc. The majority of our minute subset of users who want control of their device all likely do the same. Come to think of it, I would almost bet that out of our users, the majority are the go-to person that friends, family, colleagues, and often in my case, total strangers may be advised out of chance. Perhaps my $$ isn't worth that much. Our word of mouth, however, is taken by those ask for it to be valid.
Social media, also, is a beautiful tool for conveyance. Has a bit of a magnified result when trying to make others aware.
TechSavvy2 said:
Think again. Its partially why the Nexus 4 and Nexus 5 devices were shunned away by VZW, and one (of the many) issues they had with the Galaxy Nexus. Also why they tried to not carry the Nexus 7 (remember that wonderful delay?).
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And despite all of that, the VZW Nexus 6 is unfettered, bootloader unlockable, and all.
TechSavvy2 said:
Don't get me wrong, I probably want unlocked bootloaders more than you do.
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I am starting to doubt that one, man. lol.
TechSavvy2 said:
But don't buy devices from VZW expecting anything other than what the delivered software configuration will allow you.
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From earlier in the thread:
kitcostantino said:
Indeed. Unfortunately, I didn't buy this phone. Moto sent it as a replacement for my Dev Maxx.
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TechSavvy2 said:
Be thankful you were even given the option of a Nexus 6, it'll likely be the last unlockable device for another 3 years.
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I would be ecstatic to have a Nexus 6 at this point. Again, I didn't choose the Turbo. Just got stuck with it.
The reality is, while we might be "lucky" to have the N6 as an option, we are the customers. We are not required to keep our service where it is. We are not required to endorse the manufacturers we do. I love Moto. Moto can play the game of appeasement with Verizon if it just has to be a "Developer Edition" to have bl unlock. A phone can be rebranded whatever "dev edition" with an accessory package and a decal and still hold to the terms of their agreement. Hell If there are so few of us, why not. Not like we are going to need anything from Verizon. (help? whats that?)
Not trying to be a richard, dude. Just reminded myself of an annoying ace person w/ all the quotes. @LeoD you feel me.
At the end of the day, it makes no real difference. I just know the products and services I will and will not be telling my mostly tech-inept friends, family, colleagues, to grab when, as they always do, they ask. Motos phones and Verizon's network have always been at the top of that list. All kings (and emperors) fall eventually from such lofty heights.
Edit #472:
Technogen said:
The problem is that VZW does not want to give customers anything that they could charge them for. Which really is odd that they don't let us buy a bootloader unlock, but odds are that it would be less revenue then what they make off selling tethering.
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They would never have sold Developer Editions if this were their mentality. The things that are supported as rationale (if you dig a bit) are the sheer cost of support coupled with wanting us to only be so happy with our devices for so long. BL unlocked Turbo? I might keep it for 3 years like my OG (bl unlocked!) Droid. Tethering, while a way to generate extra revenue is $20/month. I never use it, but i have pushed 31 gb in a month before flashing roms. (man i miss msm8960dt builds) Users like us use incredible amounts of data. There is always a new rom, android version, etc.
Technogen said:
If it came with less drawbacks for them then positives they would let us unlock in a heartbeat. VZW is a full slave to the $ pound, and won't do a dang thing unless it gets them more $.
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I honestly think replacing idiots phones and playing sherpa for the tech inept is as costly as initially argued. The exclusiveness of the Dev Editions prevents the average Joe from buying them, saving countless labor hours, replacements, etc.
Technogen said:
Sadly I speak cooperate a bit better than I wish I did, so I bet it would end up being something like this to unlock your bootloader.
- Must not have unlimited data plan.
- Must have tethering data plan.
- Void any and all warranty
- $50 one time pay for Verizon device bootloader unlock.
- Device must be fully paid for.
- Must install custom Verizon recovery.
I'm sure they would think of something else to tack onto it so as to cost us more $.
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Click to collapse
The only reason I am still with Vzw as of right now is unlimited. I havent changed my plan or gotten a subsidized phone since 2008 when i was forced into paying $30/month whether i wanted to or not. Warranty voiding is standard, unless Moto does, in fact, create Dev edition licenses.
The $50 fee is reasonable. I would even double it. VZW couldnt unlock bl and force a recovery on you, though. fastboot flash recovery.img
I get where youre going with it, though. Verizon (and any good corporation) does what is in its best interests first, customers, next.
I too speak corporate. You always have to have growth. The reality is you never want to lose any customers. Losing the crazies that don't pay their bill, cuss you out, demand things for free just because they are magical snowflakes is a totally justifiable loss. Losing the dorks like me that pay their bill, buy phones at full price, and refer others continuously is not such a good thing. Immediate effects? nope. But here i am posting on a site with (i imagine a couple) of like-minded people of the same or better skill-set.
If they sent you it as a replacement and you are unhappy with the device you should either terminate your contract as they moved outside of it by giving you a different device, or move to a different phone like the Nexus 6. You didn't get stuck with anything, you just choice to not fight for a different option.
after 2.5 months of bs with Moto "Support" i was in effect told that was as good as it gets. "Nexus is not an option" was said more times than I care to count. I even bought another phone to use in the meantime, just to be able to wait it out. Again, I have had no contract since the time before Android. Principle is the only thing that bound me to either VZW or Moto up until now.
OK so we have established that moto/vzw will be motivated to allow unlock when it would make them more money than it would cost them. What about if it gains them loads of excellent PR? What if we attacked it from the angle of "future developers" that are being held back because they can't unlock the device they have so they can learn mobile development and possibly change the world / develop the next big thing / improve themselves. And they can't afford the "dev" edition phones that they have to pay full price for. Maybe a social media campaign with a tagline like "unleash the developers of tomorrow " and #unleashtheDOT ? We all know a simple rallying cry can bring people in who may not fully understand but know enough to know it's a good thing and if it spreads far enough (and things that could help people - especially young people - learn tend to spread) they will have to respond.
Absolutely! the whole #unlockthedroids thing kind of fell flat. so did the petition. Then Mofo happened and everyone became content. Personally, I like the angle. I do see a couple of caveats within trying to get them to unlock subsidized phones that will likely prove insurmountable, but I do have a background in media production...
[ 5 year old watching Dad play Angry Birds...Mom calls dad into other room...Kid A picks up phone/starts to press buttons/is delighted when the UI responds. Accidentally stumbles into About Phone and presses Build Number 7 times. Mouths word/ "Developer?" ..
[scene fades, camera centered, zooming in to the word "Developer"...
[Camera tight, zoomed, scrolls through 10 calander years with glimpses of (Moto if ya ask me) phones and android wearables as double frame images spliced in, seasons, and typical holidays meshed in as well.] Kid A, now 15, runs out to the mailbox and grabs a box out of it.
Runs inside the house and pulls out components for Moto Ara-esque modular. Kid A assembles phone in a few swift movements. Then places it on the table. He says, "Wake up."
[The phone speeds through an intense boot ani for 3 seconds, then halts]
[The phone projects on the wall the homescreen, and is navigated by the hand the kids watch is on with swipes in the air. Kid A smiles sinisterly as he loads Angry Birds. ]
[Black screen with white text: "The Developers of tomorrow are taking their first steps in Android today. The possibilities are endless if these minds can grow these seeds into something more."
[secondary scene of 2020]
Kid A goes to mailbox, opens it up. Runs inside. Pulls out block phone. Swipes (manually) through screens. Tries to change colors, and a big lock and skull/crossbones pops up. NOT ALLOWED!! in bright red letters. kid throws phone in drawer. (with Turbo. lol)
#unleashtomorrow
#droiddoesntdev
ha ha. i am only partially kidding, man. this is doable.
hotrodwinston said:
OK so we have established that moto/vzw will be motivated to allow unlock when it would make them more money than it would cost them. What about if it gains them loads of excellent PR? What if we attacked it from the angle of "future developers" that are being held back because they can't unlock the device they have so they can learn mobile development and possibly change the world / develop the next big thing / improve themselves. And they can't afford the "dev" edition phones that they have to pay full price for. Maybe a social media campaign with a tagline like "unleash the developers of tomorrow " and #unleashtheDOT ? We all know a simple rallying cry can bring people in who may not fully understand but know enough to know it's a good thing and if it spreads far enough (and things that could help people - especially young people - learn tend to spread) they will have to respond.
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The PR of it wouldn't matter to most people. Last time I saw something on it the average user has downloaded 6 apps to their phone, most pull run with what ever the phone has installed on it. So in the end people just won't care if devs can do something or not. This is just the sad reality of it.
Technogen said:
The PR of it wouldn't matter to most people. Last time I saw something on it the average user has downloaded 6 apps to their phone, most pull run with what ever the phone has installed on it. So in the end people just won't care if devs can do something or not. This is just the sad reality of it.
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You don't attack it from the standpoint of what devs can do but from the standpoint of young people learning - also people in general learning a new skill that could change their lives - this policy of locking things down is preventing people from learning and may be holding back the next Steve Jobs or Bill Gates.
I love vanilla android. I hated my S4 until I figured out how to put vanilla on it. The only reason why I decided to get a Turbo knowing that the bootloader was locked was because it's basically vanilla. I wish more phones were vanilla. So I won't be yelling at Motorola anytime soon, but that's just me.