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I struggled long and hard with the decision to purchase the EVO. Its competitor for my patronage was the Nexus One on T-Mobile. At last, I made my decision based upon the following criteria: 1) better hardware, 2) better network, and 3) better price. Seems a no brainer, right?
Now that what's done is done, I'm left with a sense of remorse. Over what? Openness. Fortunately, I haven't bricked my Evo yet, but there is a very real possibility that I will at some point. With no open boot loader and a carrier hellbent on closing their system, I have to break into my own phone with a bunch of borrowed hacks, the mechanics of which are about 3 miles over my head.
What was Google really trying to do? By cutting out the carrier from distribution, the carriers don't have an opportunity to bake the system with their garbageware and close the door behind them. By failing to support Google's effort, each of us makes it less likely in some small amount that Google will do this again. We sold them out for a front-facing camera and a bit more screen (with light leak).
Then there we will be on the forums complaining about those evil, freedom-hating carriers. But then, perhaps we chose this and deserve our fates.
If you really were deciding between the nexus one and the evo how come you didn't know the evo was locked .... I mean about just everyone knew this, every single phone but the nexus one its locked from the beginning give it a few days for people to release root, I had a nexus one and couldn't be more happy to have bought the evo I hope you enjoy your phone man
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Sent from my HTC Evo via the XDA Tapatalk App
Rooting isn't THAT hard. Stop being such a drama queen.
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Sent from my EVO 4G using Tapatalk Pro.
TheBiles said:
Rooting isn't THAT hard. Stop being such a drama queen.
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Click to collapse
You do realize that we do not have full root--and might not ever have full root, right?
You also realize as time goes on that this will inevitably become more difficult?
As charged as the OP's post is, he does have a point.
aLdaRiS said:
If you really were deciding between the nexus one and the evo how come you didn't know the evo was locked .... I mean about just everyone knew this, every single phone but the nexus one its locked from the beginning give it a few days for people to release root, I had a nexus one and couldn't be more happy to have bought the evo I hope you enjoy your phone man
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Sent from my HTC Evo via the XDA Tapatalk App
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Click to collapse
I knew the evo was locked. I was just too caught up in the specs and the excitement. I got greedy. She was hot, so I cheated. Now I'm sober and feel a sense of remorse.
nihilion_Zero said:
I knew the evo was locked. I was just too caught up in the specs and the excitement. I got greedy. She was hot, so I cheated. Now I'm sober and feel a sense of remorse.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why don't you just return the phone if this bugs you so much?
Shidell said:
You do realize that we do not have full root--and might not ever have full root, right?
You also realize as time goes on that this will inevitably become more difficult?
As charged as the OP's post is, he does have a point.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm fairly confident that we will get NAND access fairly soon. There is no such thing as an "unhackable" device. Even now, though, it is NOT that difficult to access recovery and easily flash custom ROMs.
Just my two cents, I have only had one android phone and that was the mytouch from t-mobile. I now have the HTC - HD2 and really like it. When it comes to flashing roms, especially for someone new to winmo like me, it can be a bit scary. The developers have a HSPL flash that takes away almost all the risks as long as you use common sense and read things carefully. With that said I did see where a Chef of the HD2 bricked his phone just a few days ago (I have no idea what he was attempting to do when he bricked it but it did make me realize the danger)
Thanks
Derbyman32
Yes, if the remorse is really that bad, take it back. Sprint will refund ALL of your money. Then get the Nexus One for T-Mobile for $179. No-brainer...and the N1 is still an awesome Android phone!
I've seen enough issues on this forum to know that some people have no business flashing a camera, let alone a $500 phone. These are the same people that will install a GSM radio on their CDMA phone, come here and beg for a fix only to be told "sorry, read the instructions next time." They then head to Sprint, shrug, and say "I don't know, it worked fine yesterday" in the hopes of getting the phone replaced under warranty.
I agree with the premise that they are our phones and we should be able to flash whatever we want on them; however, if *I* break my phone, I do not expect Sprint to fix it. Unfortunately, common ethical behavior such as this escapes enough that Sprint made a business decision to make it hard enough so only those competent enough to follow complex procedures succeed in taking ownership of their phones. I get that. I also knew this before buying the phone.
If it's the principle of the matter for you, you can always go back to the N1, but I'd wonder why you're here in the first place.
Me? I have enough faith in this community to undo the locks, and I'll patiently enjoy the marvel of technology the EVO is while shackled until the benefits of rooting outweigh my perceived risks in performing the procedure.
Until then, I have what I consider to be the best handheld computer on the planet. Sorry for being long winded.
jmxp69 said:
Until then, I have what I consider to be the best handheld computer on the planet. Sorry for being long winded.
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Click to collapse
I second that emotion! And it can even make the occasional phone call, too!
nihilion_Zero said:
carrier hellbent on closing their system, I have to break into my own phone with a bunch of borrowed hacks, the mechanics of which are about 3 miles over my head.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think a LESS true statement could be said.
Sprint doesn't give two flying flips what you do with your device. They have never made a move to precent root access, and MANY of the same reps who sell these devices root when it becomes available. The phone comes locked because of security and licensing agreements.
An example for the Evo is QIK. QIK is not made by Sprint, HTC, or Google. It is its own entity who paid HTC and Sprint a great deal of money to bake this app into the firmware. It would be a violation of that agreement to allow you to remove this app by default, therefore Root access is removed.
Android, when rooted, has so many holes in the security that information on the phone (like your contact list!) would in no way be considered safe. Sprint has to make some guarantee for that information, so those holes are filled and Root accessis denied.
However, should you be one of those FEW people competent enough to handle this kind of power, and you understand that Sprint, HTC, and Google will honor to warranty for the device should you break it then go for it. None of these companies will make even a token effort to stop you.
You are, for all intents and purposes, ignored. Software updates will be made as though Root did not exist. Known issues and fixes will be sent to employees and techs as though you did not exist. Features will be advertised as stock that you might no longer have, because you no longer exist.
It's not that the "carrier is bent on closing the system" it's that they are bound be several contracts to not help you.
To Motorola and for the rest of us,
I bought this phone originally because I read that the bootloader would be unlocked and I assumed fairly soon after. I, like most people, do not like motoblur. It is a slow, bloated, unfriendly interface that was forced upon me. Sadly, it is still forced upon me. So now that I thought I'd hold out and thought we'd get the keys, we didn't and it's too late to return this phone that had great promise.
What do I do now since I was dupped? I take away potential customers from Motorola. I've already convinced 3 of my friends not to get any of your phones and also a XOOM and who knows how many people they will tell my recommendations to?
You guys waste so much money on marketing and creating an image. This thing was suppose to blur the lines between computer and phone and you yourself are the ones who crippled that from being possible. Do you know what happens when you go to a sales agent at AT&T? They don't recommend the Atrix; a power user/person with knowledge of smartphones denies the customer from even considering it an option. Why would they do that? Because they know they can sell another phone that THEY like (easier to sell when you like it yourself) and they know the user won't come back and return against them, since they are paid commission.
Also, consider the demographic that probably bought this phone or considered it. They more than likely aren't the people who click 'Allow' when a website asks if it can install malware - those people bought iPhone's. The dual core CPU and webtop experience attracted the nerdier group - the power users and dev's - the exact people who don't want the limitations you put.
I know my post probably won't get heard by anyone important at moto but I know some of us owners/users/sympathizers will read this. The only thing I can hope is that we use the great tool we have and blog/tweet/status update/tell others. They won't listen to us, but they will listen to money. Take it away from them and they will listen.
FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS BUY MOTO! <---My facebook status and you should make it yours too!
kane4fire said:
To Motorola and for the rest of us,
I bought this phone originally because I read that the bootloader would be unlocked and I assumed fairly soon after. I, like most people, do not like motoblur. It is a slow, bloated, unfriendly interface that was forced upon me. Sadly, it is still forced upon me. So now that I thought I'd hold out and thought we'd get the keys, we didn't and it's too late to return this phone that had great promise.
Moto wasn't forced upon you. You bought the phone with a locked bootloader and Motoblur installed! Buying the phone was your decision!
What do I do now since I was dupped? I take away potential customers from Motorola. I've already convinced 3 of my friends not to get any of your phones and also a XOOM and who knows how many people they will tell my recommendations to?
Just because Motorola hasn't unlocked the bootloader in what is your timeframe doesn't constitute you being duped! Once again, you bought the phone knowing it had a locked bootloader and Motoblur!
You guys waste so much money on marketing and creating an image. This thing was suppose to blur the lines between computer and phone and you yourself are the ones who crippled that from being possible. Do you know what happens when you go to a sales agent at AT&T? They don't recommend the Atrix; a power user/person with knowledge of smartphones denies the customer from even considering it an option. Why would they do that? Because they know they can sell another phone that THEY like (easier to sell when you like it yourself) and they know the user won't come back and return against them, since they are paid commission.
No salesperson tried to prevent me buying mine. In fact, to the contrary, they gave me all the options. I, like you, chose to purchase the Atrix! A power user doesn't need the sales persons help to choose what they want!
Also, consider the demographic that probably bought this phone or considered it. They more than likely aren't the people who click 'Allow' when a website asks if it can install malware - those people bought iPhone's. The dual core CPU and webtop experience attracted the nerdier group - the power users and dev's - the exact people who don't want the limitations you put.
Dare I say it again..............you bought the phone knowing the bootloader was locked and Motoblur was on it! Everyone who has bought the Atrix and considers themselves a power user knows/knew the same things
I know my post probably won't get heard by anyone important at moto but I know some of us owners/users/sympathizers will read this. The only thing I can hope is that we use the great tool we have and blog/tweet/status update/tell others. They won't listen to us, but they will listen to money. Take it away from them and they will listen.
Sell your Atrix..........take your *****ing to another forum............and on your way out, don't let the doorknob hit ya where the good lord split ya!
FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS WHINE AND COMPLAIN ABOUT A PRODUCT THEY BOUGHT KNOWING IT WASN'T WHAT THEY WANTED <---My facebook status and you should make it yours too!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See above for my response to this!
*****ing about it will not accomplish anything and a large company such as Motorola wont be hurt by a few sales and honestly if I were your Facebook friend I would still buy this gadget, you know why? Its a great phone and there is still a chance that its bootloader will be unlocked eventually...just be patient.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
Actually, motorola explicitly stated they were going to unlock the bootloader from near the beginning - which was the reason I bought the phone. They used it as a selling point and they haven't addressed it at all...probably hoping it would be forgotten. Same thing with it being called a 4G phone, but it couldn't even attain 3G speeds up. They sold people on the idea that it would have the ability to access the fastest network speeds and people knew it didn't but still bought it. People *****ed, and now everyone (including your ungratefulness), got what they were told they were paying for.
A sales person may have not kept you, but it does happen more than in your case. As a matter of fact it happens fairly regularly. Usually a sales rep will lean towards one phone instead of another simply due to personal preference.
It is a great phone and great hardware without the ability to use it. This is a developers forum. If you don't want the ability to develop on this phone completely, why are you here? So you can seem all high and mighty? Maybe you're the one in the wrong forum or maybe you should just have a couple pitchers at a pub?
As far as a few sales not hurting it, that's not true at all. These phones aren't exactly flying off the shelves. As a matter of fact, this phone has a higher return rate than almost other smartphones. A returned phone costs much more overall than just not making a sale in the first place. The reason why they are going to do that is only because enough people are pissed about it that their current sales are hurting. They didn't spend money hiring people and R&D to create a locked bootloader if they didn't originally plan on keeping it locked for good.
You guys can tell people not to say anything or *****, but at the end of the day, you'll be the ones reaping the benefits of the people who did.
roharia said:
*****ing about it will not accomplish anything and a large company such as Motorola wont be hurt by a few sales and honestly if I were your Facebook friend I would still buy this gadget, you know why? Its a great phone and there is still a chance that its bootloader will be unlocked eventually...just be patient.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
*****ing won't, but asking the right questions and showing that you are not the only one who is after this definitely gets some attention.
Kane4fire,
I really like your passion, it's just about making sure your message is heard and that you don't look like a troll.
Please look at some of the work I've been doing with Motorola, it's slow going but we are getting noticed.
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/04/motorola-bootloader/
http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/26/motorola-promises-unlocked-bootloaders-for-future-android-phones/
http://www.groubal.com/motorola-lockedencrypted-bootloader-policy/
http://www.facebook.com/unlockmoto
Cheers,
Irwin
Irwin, I have been seeing a lot of your work and group and etc. Personally, I'm not 100% convinced on them unlocking the bootloader for the Atrix since all the articles stated 'late 2011 releases' and the Atrix is early 2011.
The whole point of my post was for people who do post things and have some sort of a following to actually do something and post up as well on their own avenues. If you lose your dog, you don't just tell one or two people, you tell everyone and everything you can and it creates an exponential chain of people who end up knowing about it.
I personally know for a fact that at least in a small regional area they haven't done well with the XOOM and Atrix AT ALL and much of it actually has to do with Blur and it's problems with memory usage, battery life, and general lack of UI polish. I am sure that once the figures are out it will reflect how poorly they have been doing. It's a corporation and money is their motivator/reason for existence. I am sure if they hurt enough they will bow.
kane4fire said:
Irwin, I have been seeing a lot of your work and group and etc. Personally, I'm not 100% convinced on them unlocking the bootloader for the Atrix since all the articles stated 'late 2011 releases' and the Atrix is early 2011.
The whole point of my post was for people who do post things and have some sort of a following to actually do something and post up as well on their own avenues. If you lose your dog, you don't just tell one or two people, you tell everyone and everything you can and it creates an exponential chain of people who end up knowing about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Absolutely. I haven't ceased any of my activities since that PR mumbo jumbo they gave me.
I have a few contacts within Motorola that are being difficult to get a hold of, so I keep sending emails, I keep calling (international calls for me), I keep my facebook group going, I keep tweeting and spreading as far as I can.
I hope you also have similar luck in spreading the word and getting people to rally to the cause, just make sure not to dilute the message too much or get people opposed to you.
Good luck my friend, it's good to see the fire burns strong for you.
kane4fire said:
Irwin, I have been seeing a lot of your work and group and etc. Personally, I'm not 100% convinced on them unlocking the bootloader for the Atrix since all the articles stated 'late 2011 releases' and the Atrix is early 2011.
The whole point of my post was for people who do post things and have some sort of a following to actually do something and post up as well on their own avenues. If you lose your dog, you don't just tell one or two people, you tell everyone and everything you can and it creates an exponential chain of people who end up knowing about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not to doubt your ability to read and understand the English language, but here is the actual quote:
“Motorola will enable an unlockable/relockable bootloader, currently found on Motorola Xoom, in future software releases where carrier and operator partners will allow it,” Motorola said in a statement provided to Wired.com. “It is our intention to include the unlockable/relockable bootloader in software releases starting in late 2011.”
Is the Atrix a software release? No. Maybe they will be pushing OTA updates starting in late 2011 which will allow for this.
knigitz said:
Not to doubt your ability to read and understand the English language, but here is the actual quote:
“Motorola will enable an unlockable/relockable bootloader, currently found on Motorola Xoom, in future software releases where carrier and operator partners will allow it,” Motorola said in a statement provided to Wired.com. “It is our intention to include the unlockable/relockable bootloader in software releases starting in late 2011.”
Is the Atrix a software release? No. Maybe they will be pushing OTA updates starting in late 2011 which will allow for this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, my mistake. I haven't been able to sleep. Either way, their choice of wording still doesn't mean they will actually provide the unlock since they have to convince the carrier to unlock it. I don't know what their terms were with AT&T, but why would they need permission to unlock a bootloader when it has nothing to do with the cellular network? AT&T is obviously going to say no on the matter since it means less possible anything for them to deal with. Then again I don't know. Maybe it was apart of the deal that they would lock the bootloader as a package to offer the phone on a particular network.
kane4fire said:
Well, my mistake. I haven't been able to sleep. Either way, their choice of wording still doesn't mean they will actually provide the unlock since they have to convince the carrier to unlock it. I don't know what their terms were with AT&T, but why would they need permission to unlock a bootloader when it has nothing to do with the cellular network? AT&T is obviously going to say no on the matter since it means less possible anything for them to deal with. Then again I don't know. Maybe it was apart of the deal that they would lock the bootloader as a package to offer the phone on a particular network.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Neither you or any other Atrix owner is entitled to an unlocked bootloader from Motorola. Just saying: You're not. At the same time, you're well within your rights to crack it yourself, or just get a different phone.
Edit: I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice of Motorola to package a completely open bootloader with the Gingerbread update. It would.
This absolutely does have something to do with AT&T. The AT&T Atrix was "built" for AT&T. There are contractual agreements in place.
So if AT&T says no, that is the answer. If you want a phone with an unlocked bootloader (in this case) then you need to buy one that will be unlocked - either the carrier approved it, or maybe we see an unlocked phone that is not tied to a carrier.
If you buy an AT&T (or other carrier) branded phone, then you are going to be stuck with that carriers decisions.
chromedome00 said:
This absolutely does have something to do with AT&T. The AT&T Atrix was "built" for AT&T. There are contractual agreements in place.
So if AT&T says no, that is the answer. If you want a phone with an unlocked bootloader (in this case) then you need to buy one that will be unlocked - either the carrier approved it, or maybe we see an unlocked phone that is not tied to a carrier.
If you buy an AT&T (or other carrier) branded phone, then you are going to be stuck with that carriers decisions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You say that, but then again there are many other Android phones on AT&T that /do/ have an unlocked bootloader. Captivate, Aria, Inspire, galaxy tab and most likely the Infuse. So again, maybe AT&T doesn't care and its up to the manufacturers.
Sent from my screaming Atrix *4G* using the XDA App
I am lost......if bloatware and motoblur are the issues you have with the phone why not just get rid of or freeze the bloatware and try a different launcher or Ginger/grey blur? I haven't had to deal with motoblur for a while.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
kane4fire said:
To Motorola and for the rest of us,
For one you and hackers on here kill me most brands like moto don't make phone people to replace a bootloarer that's not in there mind in the board meeting.That being said they built a phone that a normal person can pick up and download apps from marketplace from its like buying a new 2011 car getting it home and dropping the motor and tranny the new car is ment to drive of the lot now im not saying I want my atrix bootloader locked cause I don't and my G2x is not unlocked but you can't strike against a large company like moto your little voices still mean nothing do them unless where on there board they care less.
I bought this phone originally because I read that the bootloader would be unlocked and I assumed fairly soon after. I, like most people, do not like motoblur. It is a slow, bloated, unfriendly interface that was forced upon me. Sadly, it is still forced upon me. So now that I thought I'd hold out and thought we'd get the keys, we didn't and it's too late to return this phone that had great promise.
What do I do now since I was dupped? I take away potential customers from Motorola. I've already convinced 3 of my friends not to get any of your phones and also a XOOM and who knows how many people they will tell my recommendations to?
You guys waste so much money on marketing and creating an image. This thing was suppose to blur the lines between computer and phone and you yourself are the ones who crippled that from being possible. Do you know what happens when you go to a sales agent at AT&T? They don't recommend the Atrix; a power user/person with knowledge of smartphones denies the customer from even considering it an option. Why would they do that? Because they know they can sell another phone that THEY like (easier to sell when you like it yourself) and they know the user won't come back and return against them, since they are paid commission.
Also, consider the demographic that probably bought this phone or considered it. They more than likely aren't the people who click 'Allow' when a website asks if it can install malware - those people bought iPhone's. The dual core CPU and webtop experience attracted the nerdier group - the power users and dev's - the exact people who don't want the limitations you put.
I know my post probably won't get heard by anyone important at moto but I know some of us owners/users/sympathizers will read this. The only thing I can hope is that we use the great tool we have and blog/tweet/status update/tell others. They won't listen to us, but they will listen to money. Take it away from them and they will listen.
FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS BUY MOTO! <---My facebook status and you should make it yours too!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App
Tylerjd said:
You say that, but then again there are many other Android phones on AT&T that /do/ have an unlocked bootloader. Captivate, Aria, Inspire, galaxy tab and most likely the Infuse. So again, maybe AT&T doesn't care and its up to the manufacturers.
Sent from my screaming Atrix *4G* using the XDA App
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Click to collapse
^^^ If Moto scapegoats AT&T over this, it would not be good for business.
knigitz said:
Not to doubt your ability to read and understand the English language, but here is the actual quote:
“Motorola will enable an unlockable/relockable bootloader, currently found on Motorola Xoom, in future software releases where carrier and operator partners will allow it,” Motorola said in a statement provided to Wired.com. “It is our intention to include the unlockable/relockable bootloader in software releases starting in late 2011.”
Is the Atrix a software release? No. Maybe they will be pushing OTA updates starting in late 2011 which will allow for this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's rumored that Moto will be the manufacturer for the next generation Google Nexus branded device, which is supposedly to be released ~Q4 2011. Maybe this is what they are referring to. Who knows. All I do know is that quote from moto didn't say anything about the Atrix.
nucentury08 said:
For one you and hackers on here kill me most brands like moto don't make phone people to replace a bootloarer that's not in there mind in the board meeting.That being said they built a phone that a normal person can pick up and download apps from marketplace from its like buying a new 2011 car getting it home and dropping the motor and tranny the new car is ment to drive of the lot now im not saying I want my atrix bootloader locked cause I don't and my G2x is not unlocked but you can't strike against a large company like moto your little voices still mean nothing do them unless where on there board they care less.
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Holy ****. Longest, most rambling sentence I've ever seen.
Other att phones have locked bootloaders but they where easily exploited. Htc and the other manufacturers are making them harder and harder to unlock. Att most likely is in contract with moto to keep it locked. With it locked they have more chances of making more money off the bloatware.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA Premium App
knigitz said:
Neither you or any other Atrix owner is entitled to an unlocked bootloader from Motorola. Just saying: You're not. At the same time, you're well within your rights to crack it yourself, or just get a different phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah, why should people who plunk down hundreds of dollars be able to do what they want with something they own?
the nerve of some people wanting to use their devices as they see fit.
jbe4 said:
yeah, why should people who plunk down hundreds of dollars be able to do what they want with something they own?
the nerve of some people wanting to use their devices as they see fit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You pay for the product, not the ability to tweak it to your heart's content. You don't see a $200 iPhone coming readily available to modify, do you? No. You have to jailbreak it first, if there's a jailbreak available.
As for kane's comment about motorola saying they'd unlock the bootloader from "near the beginning".... there was never such a statement that i've seen. I've seen stuff on the Motorola Owners Forum stating that a possible bootloader solution was being looked into... but nothing more than that. period.
elementaldragon said:
You pay for the product, not the ability to tweak it to your heart's content. You don't see a $200 iPhone coming readily available to modify, do you? No. You have to jailbreak it first, if there's a jailbreak available.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
by paying for the product I've paid to do what I want with it - If I want to use it as a way of leveling a kitchen chair thats my prerogative.
I think its just as patently offensive that Apple does it too
regardless, Android was/is billed as the Open Source alternative specifically to address the nonsense that is the itunes store and the draconian oversight of overbearing manufacturers. To have individual manufacturers go against the spirit of what google was/is trying to accomplish when they released AndroidOS seems just a bit ridiculous, dont you think?
I just noticed an update for Acer Nidus (their bug reporting app) in the changelog, it mentions a change to allow better ICS compatibility. So clearly they are in the testing phase, in fact theyre far enough into it that they're ever n upgrading their own apps for it, which means thework theyve done to build the Rom must be pretty far along.
Good stuff! Thanks for the heads up.
This is one of the reasons I went ahead and purchased the Iconia Tab, I have read many reports online stating that ACER will be pushing the 4.0 update sometime in January for both models of their Android TAB the A100 and A500. Your little find makes me believe that they werent kidding, I won't hold my breathe waiting for it in January I would bet on No earlier than February, thats just the way Manufactures seem to do things anymore.
garringm said:
This is one of the reasons I went ahead and purchased the Iconia Tab, I have read many reports online stating that ACER will be pushing the 4.0 update sometime in January for both models of their Android TAB the A100 and A500. Your little find makes me believe that they werent kidding, I won't hold my breathe waiting for it in January I would bet on No earlier than February, thats just the way Manufactures seem to do things anymore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ME too...That was one of the reason I bought it.
Acer sales spurt
I think acer will push the ics update sooner then people are expecting,or they will release a new tablet then push the update to us after that.So it could go either way. IF they do not have the new t 3 tablets ready.or there is a very large stock of icer iconia tabs out there.. they may push the update and use it as a tool to promote another sales spurt for out devices..
I Guess with this said it could be tomorrow or not until spring or mid year.. AS i said above and from what i have read it all depends on how close the new t 3 devices are . They do what ever they can to drive sales NOT MAKE ALREADY CUSTOMERS HAPPY..
i USED TO Own a retail business and on a local scale this does work its like when a new version of windows is about to come out.. People dont push new hardware right away.. they push that there existing hardware will run the new os and push that first.. then NEw hardware taking advantage of the new os after stocks have been depleated.. ITS NOT FAIR TO CUSTOMERS BUT GOOD FOR THERE BOTTOM LINE..
garringm said:
This is one of the reasons I went ahead and purchased the Iconia Tab, I have read many reports online stating that ACER will be pushing the 4.0 update sometime in January for both models of their Android TAB the A100 and A500. Your little find makes me believe that they werent kidding, I won't hold my breathe waiting for it in January I would bet on No earlier than February, thats just the way Manufactures seem to do things anymore.
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Click to collapse
It'll be awhile before I flash any update from a manufacturer, went down that road with my evo 4g and samsung captivate. Samsung Drops the ball every time an update comes out, nut I guess I can't cry too hard because a lot of the hold up is from the phone carriers trying to tie up any loop hole, and cram all of their crapware in. HTC pulled a major foopah with the hardcore techies when they locked down their bootloaders. 6 months without root priviliges, that sucked
FWIW - the newly released a200 has been announced as ICS ready - with reports that it will be shipping with ICS in January.
Given the lead times between manufacture and shipping - to be saying this and aiming get a device in stores in January with ICS - the ICS rom must pretty much be complete for that device.
And what a sweet tab it is for the price - picked up one of the first ones available for a very sweet 299 - which i think makes it the best priced HC 3.2.1 10'1 tab on the planet at the moment. Well done acer . . .
___________
Acer Liquid MT
Acer A200 Iconia Tab
I might be wrong, but my money is on ACER NOT pushing ICS <period>. They may make it available manually, but pushing it OTA should have their legal staff trying to stop it.
Here's the issue. If you download the HC kernel and compare it to ICS it is greatly different. Many applications have issues running on ICS that ran fine on HC. It is risky. Many carriers have a service level agreement with customers and breaking a tablet on a customer you already have on contract paying you isn't worth the risk either. Secondly, there are huge changes in ICS that certain carriers are not going to want on their 3G networks. So, anyone with such an ACER (like on on Verzion), don't hold your breath.
So, here you are at ACER sitting in the executive boardroom and they're discussing ICS. Why would anyone want to support giving past customers (or better yet forcing past customers via OTA) ICS when they already have that past customer's money? No upside, only costs, headaches, and lawsuit's written all over it. ACER will therefore, release ICS only on NEW hardware. Therefore they can get you to pay for it. Also read their press releases. They are saying A500 to get ICS. But they are NOT saying YOUR OLD ACER a500 that you previously bought will be upgraded free of charge and free of issues are they?
Bottom-line, there's too much risk involved in OTA'ng a NEW OS to customers that are NOT paying you anything. Why have someone start a class action lawsuit over it because the OTA broke something?
Lastly, I've been programming and running ICS for 3 months now and it is buggy. Stuff crashes, MFG's are needing to patch their apps, etc. If ACER makes ICS OTA it won't be a release it will be a nightmare.
my 2¢
TD
timmyDean said:
So, here you are at ACER sitting in the executive boardroom and they're discussing ICS. Why would anyone want to support giving past customers (or better yet forcing past customers via OTA) ICS when they already have that past customer's money?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If Acer's smart and that executive sitting in the boardroom is not so short sighted, they'll understand that supporting their 8 month old product with reasonable updates for a reasonable period of time is the only way I'll consider using their brand again.
So if they abandon it... I (and many other users here) will never buy another Acer as a gift for a friend or family member, never recommend it to anybody, and we'll end up telling everybody to stay away from them. That's not how you build brand loyalty (compare this with Apple).
Even Samsung, who announced they weren't going to bother with ICS for any of the legacy Galaxy products is now having second thoughts after the backlash they started getting.
Now, nobody's saying they need to release all updates for everything forever. The 18-month Android Developer commitment these companies pledged to is a very reasonable window. And if there's concern about the OTA aspect, release it on the side as a manual update (HTC already does this).
And for bonus points, when they're done with the product's life-cycle... at least leave the keys on the table for us (i.e. HTC and their recent decision to unlock all boot-loaders).
timmyDean said:
I might be wrong, but my money is on ACER NOT pushing ICS <period>. They may make it available manually, but pushing it OTA should have their legal staff trying to stop it.
Here's the issue. If you download the HC kernel and compare it to ICS it is greatly different. Many applications have issues running on ICS that ran fine on HC. It is risky. Many carriers have a service level agreement with customers and breaking a tablet on a customer you already have on contract paying you isn't worth the risk either. Secondly, there are huge changes in ICS that certain carriers are not going to want on their 3G networks. So, anyone with such an ACER (like on on Verzion), don't hold your breath.
So, here you are at ACER sitting in the executive boardroom and they're discussing ICS. Why would anyone want to support giving past customers (or better yet forcing past customers via OTA) ICS when they already have that past customer's money? No upside, only costs, headaches, and lawsuit's written all over it. ACER will therefore, release ICS only on NEW hardware. Therefore they can get you to pay for it. Also read their press releases. They are saying A500 to get ICS. But they are NOT saying YOUR OLD ACER a500 that you previously bought will be upgraded free of charge and free of issues are they?
Bottom-line, there's too much risk involved in OTA'ng a NEW OS to customers that are NOT paying you anything. Why have someone start a class action lawsuit over it because the OTA broke something?
Lastly, I've been programming and running ICS for 3 months now and it is buggy. Stuff crashes, MFG's are needing to patch their apps, etc. If ACER makes ICS OTA it won't be a release it will be a nightmare.
my 2¢
TD
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I keep up with the technology blogs and Acer is updating this tablet plus A100 by April. As far as all the other stuff Acer has recently said this week that they are focusing less on making new Android products but making great hardware and attracting customers by supporting software with updates.
http://androidandme.com/2011/12/dev...id-devices-catching-on-acer-joining-the-pack/
Sent from my A100 using Tapatalk
A lot of good points, but money talks in the world of business. Samsung, fubar'ed the press release that's all; everyone is thinking it, nobody is saying like Samsung.
Voting with our pocketbook, is correct. But we should have all walked when they locked the bootloader, don't you think?
All you have to have is ONE OTA come down and 'lady I'll get rich' looses access to the pictures she took of her dead husband. And lets say he died in Iraq, just to pour it on. So here's the grieving widow, of a fallen American hero, on national TV crying her eyes out that ACER pushed ICS and now she's lost the only pictures (oh and lets say a few videos) of her late husband.
Can you say multi-billion dollar lawsuit! If they push ICS it will not be pretty, and this is why no OEM will push it or make it available to an existing customer base. That's why they locked the bootloader so you cannot install ICS. Follow the money, you want ICS your bootloader is locked so cough up the cash for a new tablet, because with the locked boot loader you aren't loading anything. And they can walk into a court of law and state such 'Judge, we're not responsible for customer's loss of data because we locked the device. And as the evidence will show, the plaintiff unlocked the device causing the damage and loss of her photos and videos'. Meanwhile, 99.95% of the people won't know how to unlock the boatloader so they'll just buy a new one.
Bottom-line: Manufacture's are locking the bootloader to keep you from installing ICS, Netflex, Skype, or anything else that comes down the pipe. Oh, you want the NFL package, then let me sell you this NEW a500 with it already installed. Oh, you just want to install it on the one you already own? Sorry not supported. Since your bootloader is locked, good luck loading it!
What you will see is more and more apps that only run on ICS. Also, inside ICS will be LIB's in the /system/lib folder required to run certain apps. With a locked bootloader, you cannot add the required Lib's yet alone a OS. More proof, look at how many OEM's are now doing their own market place? If ACER locks you into ACER's market place then they make the millions. Again, follow the money. They are locking these to keep you contained inside their box and to make you buy and upgrade, period. There's no money in hardware, IBM said that what 15 years ago, HP this year? ACER wants to lock you into their market place, run only their applications, etc. That's what's happening here and why ICS will be something they can make money on. Therefore, don't hold your breath on any free ICS.
Lastly, ICS requires more memory, more video, more horsepower to run. Nvidia has already released a whole new architecture for ICS. Now you want the real bad news? They are building in additional security, and they claim that it will be impossible to root. Well, we all know how those claims go, but software exploits just might be a thing of the past. And how many of us are going to get out the soldering iron and paperclips to jumper in a bootloader unlock like gamers do on gaming stations?
Again, you can ***** and moan all you want, but ACER wants to make money and providing FREE ICS I'm sorry to say, just doesn't add money to the bottom line.
TD
---------- Post added at 06:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:50 AM ----------
ACER's direction - Future strategy going forward:
1. ACER has locked the bootloader to keep users from installing ICS. Therefore, they can offer a new series of devices for consumers to purchase for those wanting ICS.
2. The new Nvidia chip set and boot loader for ICS is locked from the factory from the beginning and with new and improved security and protocols. Since these tablets were never released unlocked, unlocking them will be very difficult. Only software security exploits can be used, however they can be easily fixed with an OTA.
3. ACER will deploy a new series of applications that only run on ICS with specific lib's contained in system/lib with out these library's certain applications will not run. ACER will exploit this to force vendors to use the ACER market place. If you want to watch movies, then you'll have to have an application from ACER's market place.
a. ACER will still allow general apps to be installed that conform to the ICS API, however applications that are potentially a revenue stream (for ACER) will need to be obtained from ACER's market place therefore they can charge the software vendor. Example, NetFlex application will still be free to the user, however the only version that runs is the one downloaded from ACER. Skype, the same thing. User's won't care, because to them it's still free. But to the software vendor it is not free, they will be charged by ACER to place their application on the market place.
I can go on and on. I do not work for ACER, nor claim to have any inside information. This is just my opinion gathered from various chats and reading articles on various sites. It is sort of the 'wild-wild-west' of the tablet world right now and everyone is trying to do a land grab. If you don't think this is possible then just look to the past. Remember AOL, Compuserve? You were locked into their network and they controlled it, but you don't have to look there. Look at the Kindle Fire, Lenovo, etc etc. They are all trying to be the next Apple, including Google with their Motorola division that they purchased.
anyway my 2 ¢
TD
---------- Post added at 06:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:17 AM ----------
qhinton said:
I keep up with the technology blogs and Acer is updating this tablet plus A100 by April. As far as all the other stuff Acer has recently said this week that they are focusing less on making new Android products but making great hardware and attracting customers by supporting software with updates.
http://androidandme.com/2011/12/dev...id-devices-catching-on-acer-joining-the-pack/
Sent from my A100 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good point in this post, but it's just a reporters opinion of what they said happened when consumers pushed back when Samsung announced it would not offer ICS. Again, all they said was they'd re-think it. If you read the ACER press release and CEO J.T. Wang from their conference. You can see ACER is going after software, and services, he says it over and over again and locking the bootloader is part of their strategy.
You have to really look at nVidia’s Tegra 3, and the architecture behind ICS. Trying to make it run on today's hardware devices isn't worth the engineering effort.
Then you have MS and Intel breathing down your neck with Windows 8. Not to mention the ARM architecture wanting a piece of the Windows 8 action. As Scotty would say, "Captain, I can't change the laws of physics" and current platforms don't support ICS. Meaning, it will be about as affective as a one legged man in a butt kicking contest.
TD
Jeez dude, tinfoil hat much? They locked the bootloader because they're tired of all the idiots bricking their devices and returning them for warranty. The way to stop everyone from bootlegging ics on their devices and bricking them, and keeping their customer base happy long term is to release it officially.
Lots of companies make lots of money selling gadgets. If they want to try and supplement that with their own market they may, but it would be suicide to lock people into that. Only Amazon and Apple will get away with that and if they try to compete in that space they'll get killed.
My $.02
rbtconsultants said:
Jeez dude, tinfoil hat much? They locked the bootloader because they're tired of all the idiots bricking their devices and returning them for warranty. The way to stop everyone from bootlegging ics on their devices and bricking them, and keeping their customer base happy long term is to release it officially.
Lots of companies make lots of money selling gadgets. If they want to try and supplement that with their own market they may, but it would be suicide to lock people into that. Only Amazon and Apple will get away with that and if they try to compete in that space they'll get killed.
My $.02
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Love the hat comment <lol>
I do not buy into locking the device to keep costs down. In all the documents obtained from ACER, there's no mention of it. They only mention locking the device to secure software and preventing people from pirating. No mention of stupid people bricking them.
And up until they locked the boot loader, it was IMPOSSIBLE to brick a500. Let me restate that, it was impossible to brick an ACER a500 before they locked the bootloader. Because, all you had to do is download ACER/NFlash tool, connect your tablet to your PC, use a paperclip and poof, you flashed it back to factory. A monkey could do it, and I personally walked hundreds through it over the phone doing tech support (some I think were monkey's or at least about as smart).
Also, there are hundreds of reasons why the a500 would lock up (brick) and non of them were because of stupid user's trying to root them. Matter of fact, according to ACER's own tech support personnel, they now get more tablets returned then they did before because they cannot walk users through reloading them. Also, the VP of support brought it to J. T's attention that locking the bootloader was incurring increase costs. He snapped, and flew off the handle stating that like it or not, the bootloader will stay locked and if there's an increase in returns they'll just have to work through it.
TD
TD...no offense dude, but what a damned killjoy. =p
Reminds me of the sort of person who can only see the negative in everything, which is sad really.
Cheer up, eat an orange, watch kittens on youtube...something.
Peace
How about chemistry? I think I'm going to take a bunch of beer and turn it into urine.
Anyway, happy new year to all. You know all this rooting is a mute point away, isn't it? Doesn't the world end next year on 21 Dec 2012 anyway?
Well off to chemistry class.
Cheers,
TD
haha, that works too. Beer is good!
btw...meant no disrespect
gaddenar said:
haha, that works too. Beer is good!
btw...meant no disrespect
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Click to collapse
None taken, nice to have people appreciate chemistry.
Cheers,
---------- Post added at 07:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:36 AM ----------
Lastly, I wanted to share that another company I use to ***** about locked their bootloader.
They finally changed their way because enough of us complained enough about it. We all need to do voice our opinion to ACER and get them to change as well.
Please read this http://htcdev.com/bootloader
i hope ics will come soon. Compared to my galaxy nexus the a500 feels realy sluggish.
Im on root so any custom xoom or transformer custom ics rom will do
timmyDean said:
Voting with our pocketbook, is correct. But we should have all walked when they locked the bootloader, don't you think?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How do you walked away when you already have bought the device?
All you have to have is ONE OTA come down and 'lady I'll get rich' looses access to the pictures she took of her dead husband. And lets say he died in Iraq, just to pour it on. So here's the grieving widow, of a fallen American hero, on national TV crying her eyes out that ACER pushed ICS and now she's lost the only pictures (oh and lets say a few videos) of her late husband.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lay off the tinfoil-hat, please. Acer won't be pushing ICS unless they can be fairly certain such a thing doesn't happen under normal circumstances. If the user has e.g. rooted their device then Acer isn't liable for possible damages as that is no longer "normal circumstances" nor intended use of the device.
That's why they locked the bootloader so you cannot install ICS.
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I'd say they locked it to stop every Joe Average from screwing up their tablets and then taking it to warranty.
More proof, look at how many OEM's are now doing their own market place?
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Click to collapse
Let's see... Apple, check. Amazon, check. Google, check. Samsung? Not check. HTC? Not check. Notice the trend? It's all the really big ones that ALREADY have enough of a muscle to throw such things around, not just plain device manufacturers. Acer/Samsung/HTC/etc. would just drive themselves to the ground if they went that way, they simply do not have the marketshare or muscle to be able to do that, nor do they have the required expertise.
That's what's happening here and why ICS will be something they can make money on.
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Click to collapse
What's happening here is someone WAY too comfortable in his tinfoil-hat making desperate rants on the Internets while making himself look like a lunatic (which he likely is.)
Well, we all know how those claims go, but software exploits just might be a thing of the past.
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There is no way of making 100% exploit-proof OS unless your OS actually accepts no input from any device whatsoever.
And how many of us are going to get out the soldering iron and paperclips to jumper in a bootloader unlock like gamers do on gaming stations?
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Well, you can count atleast me in. Not that my PS3 required that either, software exploit works just fine.
WereCatf said:
How do you walked away when you already have bought the device?
Lay off the tinfoil-hat, please. Acer won't be pushing ICS unless they can be fairly certain such a thing doesn't happen under normal circumstances. If the user has e.g. rooted their device then Acer isn't liable for possible damages as that is no longer "normal circumstances" nor intended use of the device.
I'd say they locked it to stop every Joe Average from screwing up their tablets and then taking it to warranty.
Let's see... Apple, check. Amazon, check. Google, check. Samsung? Not check. HTC? Not check. Notice the trend? It's all the really big ones that ALREADY have enough of a muscle to throw such things around, not just plain device manufacturers. Acer/Samsung/HTC/etc. would just drive themselves to the ground if they went that way, they simply do not have the marketshare or muscle to be able to do that, nor do they have the required expertise.
What's happening here is someone WAY too comfortable in his tinfoil-hat making desperate rants on the Internets while making himself look like a lunatic (which he likely is.)
There is no way of making 100% exploit-proof OS unless your OS actually accepts no input from any device whatsoever.
Well, you can count atleast me in. Not that my PS3 required that either, software exploit works just fine.
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Agree 100% except for the fact that samsung actually have its own apps market, accessible via its samsung apps application.puny in comparison, but its there.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
So I don't know about you guys, but I am tired of waiting for ICS. Even more so I am tired of there being not a word spoken about the progress of the update from Google, Sprint, or Samsung. Being that I am still paying the phones subsidized price to Sprint with my monthly payments, I have taken my complaints to their official forum.
http://community.sprint.com/baw/community/buzzaboutwireless/phones-and-devices/samsung/nexus_s_
I encourage all of you that are tired of the silence of these companies to please join me on Sprints forums and voice your complaints. Maybe if enough of us speak up someone will realize it is better to have transparency even when things go wrong.
*I know some of you will say quit complaining and flash a rom. I know what my options are, but that does not excuse these companies for treating us the way that they are. Sprint should not be advertising the Nexus S 4G as receiving "OS updates as soon as humanly possible"*
I've been wondering this for a while.. when the ota update comes out, do you (as in everyone who's waiting for it) plan on using it?
Drop w/e custom ics rom you might have with performance tweaks, themes, status bar toggles, settings you'd never get in a stock rom, etc. etc.?
"treating us the way that they are"? Maybe you've forgotten that Google pulled the first ics update because of issues, and they already have 4.0.5 planned, ics is obviously having issues.
Don't get me wrong, i can definitely understand the frustration with no news about anything at all. I can see your reasoning for complaining to Sprint about that.
i dunno, I'm just curious as to why everyone is freaking out over it. imo they should be pestering Google to release the 4.0.4 source for us to fix some things in our roms, instead of bothering the carrier
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk
kyouko said:
I've been wondering this for a while.. when the ota update comes out, do you (as in everyone who's waiting for it) plan on using it?
Drop w/e custom ics rom you might have with performance tweaks, themes, status bar toggles, settings you'd never get in a stock rom, etc. etc.?
"treating us the way that they are"? Maybe you've forgotten that Google pulled the first ics update because of issues, and they already have 4.0.5 planned, ics is obviously having issues.
Don't get me wrong, i can definitely understand the frustration with no news about anything at all. I can see your reasoning for complaining to Sprint about that.
i dunno, I'm just curious as to why everyone is freaking out over it. imo they should be pestering Google to release the 4.0.4 source for us to fix some things in our roms, instead of bothering the carrier
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pestering Google would be the more direct approach for sure. But they already got their money for these phones. Sprint on the other hand I am still paying and will continue to pay (if I don't move to another carrier). So Sprint seems to be the more logical source to complain to and maybe if enough people pester them, they will in turn force Google to be more transparent. Because as is, it looks like Google could give a ****.
Ah alright, that makes more sense to me now. Thanks for the response
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk
kyouko said:
I've been wondering this for a while.. when the ota update comes out, do you (as in everyone who's waiting for it) plan on using it?
Drop w/e custom ics rom you might have with performance tweaks, themes, status bar toggles, settings you'd never get in a stock rom, etc. etc.?
"treating us the way that they are"? Maybe you've forgotten that Google pulled the first ics update because of issues, and they already have 4.0.5 planned, ics is obviously having issues.
Don't get me wrong, i can definitely understand the frustration with no news about anything at all. I can see your reasoning for complaining to Sprint about that.
i dunno, I'm just curious as to why everyone is freaking out over it. imo they should be pestering Google to release the 4.0.4 source for us to fix some things in our roms, instead of bothering the carrier
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, I would never give up my mods & tweaks, etc....but I would love to have a stock rom with all those tweaks, mods, themes, kernels, etc. added on to it. IMHO, stock roms are almost always stable beasts! Honestly, at this point, I am doubting whether or not sprint even cares enough to let us know what's going on with the update. We're now over 2 months since the first official ota was pushed to nexus s and the devs here have already beaten the bloody hell out of sprint in releasing working roms, with brand new radios, bootloaders, and all. Granted, the bootloader & radio were ripped from a leaked rom, but still....we've got over a dozen working roms before the people who have full access to schematics, closed source code, etc. could even get one out.....and that's just plain sad!!
Has anyone gotten this OTA yet? I can't even find one person that has. It's making me think that it was a false leak, maybe that's already well known though...
patokeefe said:
Has anyone gotten this OTA yet? I can't even find one person that has. It's making me think that it was a false leak, maybe that's already well known though...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Umm.. Its called a leak because it was err.. leaked... It was an OTA update that wasn't released yet and still hasn't been. Doesn't make it a false leak, just means they still aren't ready to release it.
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk
Is he possibly talking about the leaked release date of the ota ics update, the one of the screenshot from a Sprint webpage showing Sprint saying the update will be released on February 16th???? I think he might have been asking if anyone got the ota update that this was showing. I personally think that it was a misprint and the update will be released on March 16th, as there is another leaked piece saying the NEXUS S update will be released in mid March.
KID ANDROID said:
Is he possibly talking about the leaked release date of the ota ics update, the one of the screenshot from a Sprint webpage showing Sprint saying the update will be released on February 16th???? I think he might have been asking if anyone got the ota update that this was showing. I personally think that it was a misprint and the update will be released on March 16th, as there is another leaked piece saying the NEXUS S update will be released in mid March.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly.
I should clarify, the substance of the leak-the date if the alleged OTA update-was false.
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk
Looks like Sprint is still sytematically deleting posts of their users and paying customers on their forum.
Go here and see before it is deleted: http://community.sprint.com/baw/thread/85388?start=0&tstart=0
"Nexus S 4g and ICS-where is it?
Why were these posts deleted? Why are you still trying to hide what is going on instead of answering my questions? There was nothing in these posts that was your content to delete. markie_b stated that posts that had Sprint property (screenshots) were deleted because of that, but why are these deleted?
POST 1
"@markie_b "the opportune word here is leaked which means someone is putting information out there before it is due and therefore Sprint has the right to delete any information"
Just because it was leaked does not make it any less true. There was a banner at the top of the page when Sprint employees logged into Dara and ISC. It was there for two days at least. Many different Sprint employees confirmed this as true. So deleting the screenshot and links to this image just makes it look like Sprint is trying to hide something. Which you are. Sprint messed up. Plain and simple. Maybe you guys should admit this and try to give us more information than just wait for ICS because we know nothing. We all know you and every other Sprint employee know nothing. You guys should work on changing that. Instead of hiding mistakes and staying silent on what is going on with an update, you should be proactive in letting us know every step of the process you are on in geting the update out. The source has been available for 3 months now, that is more than enough time to get the radios working. As I have said before we are all still paying Sprint for these phones. We deserve to be treated better. On a side note you should realize the Nexus is a developer phone. You are not dealing with your average Android phone users here. We will notice every single mistake you make and come looking for answers every time.
@aysdojo Why would you think it was an internal release? How many Sprint employees do you think still even own an NS4G? On top of that there is no system in place for Sprint to only push updates to Sprint employees. So how would they even accomplish an internal release?
@14knight So would you mind explaining why another post created by mattsholtz23 that asked why Sprint is advertising the Nexus S 4g as "OS updates as soon as humanly possible" were outright deleted and the member banned? There was no "leaked" information in that post. It was a simple question that was deleted instead of just being answered. It look like Sprints policy is to delete any post on here that makes them look bad. Instead of being up front and admitting when they do things wrong. A screen shot has been taken as proof of this post."
POST 2
"I must assume that you have trouble reading, as all proof needed was inside of last post. You must realize that you are asking for proof of things that do not exist, i.e. a way for Sprint to roll out releases only to employees all the while excluding every other NS4G owner on their network. This is like asking someone to prove that Santa Clause does not exist. The proof he does not exist is that no one has ever proven that he does exist. The same goes for Sprints secret employee OS upgrade system that you somehow beleive in. Like I said before, it would have been heard of by now through employee leaks, considering that the OP is about Sprint internal leaks this is something Sprint has a problem with. Also of note is that the one internal rollout you cited from Google had leaked screenshots of ICS (I guess you would have had to of read the article though) hitting Google+ and Twitter within hours of the actual rollout to employees. Further illustrating my point. I would also like to point out that I have answered your questions twice now with you still never answering my one question to you. Why do you believe this was an internal rollout? Any other post by you will be ignored as I must assume you are trolling and are hijacking the thread, considering your last 2 posts have not had a single fact in them and were all opinion, and that you never answered my one question to you. Now back to the real questions I would like to see answers to. I am still waiting Markie_B and 14Knight."
A screenshot has been taken as proof of this post, as have all my other posts."
And another one that was deleted:
"@dreamcat1138 You are correct. Not only does the NS4G have weak radio problems, but it is all Samsung devices that have signal issues. Samsung is notorious for using under powered radios inside of it's handsets. http://www.androidcentral.com/nexus-s-users-hows-your-wifi-strength http://www.androidcentral.com/are-you-having-radio-issues-your-nexus-s-4g-poll http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/Google+Mobile/thread?tid=34ad876196cb21c4&hl=en http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/Google+Mobile/thread?tid=72cde4a29b9021c3&hl=en http://forums.androidcentral.com/sp...e-wifi-radio-wifi-tethering-crashes-data.html Tweet from Engadget's Mobile editor - https://twitter.com/#!/zpower/status/15800092652998657 http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1714413 http://pocketnow.com/android/samsung-epic-4g-touch-hits-radio-problems-fix-promised http://pocketnow.com/android/epic-4g-touch-signal-loss-fix-coming-soon-user-leaks-it-early http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=24345 http://www.theverge.com/2011/12/21/...signal-problem-fix-coming-meter-being-changed Trust me I could go on. Basically all Samsung devices including the Nexus S 4G have horrible radios. Just look at some of the other posts in Sprints Nexus S forum. There are more than one post asking when the radios would be fixed on the NS4G, and they always have the same answer. It's in the next update. Yet with the last 3 update the NS4G recieved that were supposed to fix the radio issues, they never did. And now we are being told it will be in the ICS update. That is untrue as there is no fix for the radio ssues, it is a hardware issue, and the only fix for that is not buying a Samsung phone. Screenshots have been taken as proof of this post."
Here are even more that were deleted.
"Why was the screen shot and link to the image of the leak deleted? Why does Sprint feel that hiding their mess ups is gonna help? It is all over the web, we already know. Why don't you take the time to admit your mistakes and tell us what is going on, instead of deleting posts banning members and deleting pictures. Is this really Sprints stance, to hide facts and lie to it's paying customers? Every person on this Nexus board is still paying for their phones with their contracts. Why are we being treated this way? Screenshots have been taken as proof of this post."
"So you don't believe everything you read on the internet, yet you believe the rumor one guy (not a Sprint employee) posted on this forum that this was an internal rollout. As that one guy (techguy379) is the only and original source that this was an internal rollout, and looking at his other posts, he knows absolutely nothing about what Sprint is doing. Not to mention that if it was an internal rollout wouldn't the Sprint employees who leaked these screen shots have known that, as they are internal employees. I personally know for a fact that one of the screen shot leakers/posters was himself an NS4G owner, wouldn't it make sense that he would have been one of the internal testers, since he owned the phone the test was taking place on and was himself an internal employee of Sprint? The proof that Sprint or any other prvider has never done an internal rollout to test an OS on their employees is that we would have heard about it, on Twitter, Facebook, and XDA. Do you really think Sprint could control leaks from their 18 year old work force. Most companies can't even control leaks from their programers and coders. Come on. You also just proved yourself wrong, as Google is the only company that does internal rollouts of Android to test OS updates. Since they are the ones who make it. There has and never been a single reported case of a service provider (Sprint, Verizon, AT&T, T-Mobile) ever internally testing an OS update on their work force, and that is because they don't. Really you are just making yourself look silly. I am sure Sprint can take care of defending themselves without your ill informed help."
*update* Looks like nexuss4glies was banned and most posts deleted.
Here is a full account of what is going on at Sprint's forums.
http://sprintlies.tumblr.com/
Here is a reddit link as well http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/pyaow/a_full_record_of_how_sprint_is_deleting_its_users/
Your sense of entitlement is ridiculous at this point.
These updates take time, there is a massive amount of testing that has to happen before you release an update that could potentially brick hundreds of thousands of phones in one day. When working with a wireless carrier they must also test to make sure the radio is working properly with the network as well, in a variety of environments and situations.
If any problem comes up during these tests it has to start over again, if google has decided that 4.0.5 needs to be developed before they can re-test it, it's up to them. Google has never once stated a release date for ICS on our phones, sprint had it on an internal website for employees only (which could be a fake shot), not out there for public consumption. It's likely they are testing it internally and still awaiting approval somewhere down the line.
Just calm down, or just install the leak if you are really truely that desperate. The OTA will come out in due time and you'll look back at this and wonder how you could be so unreasonable.
They are releasing it as fast as humanly possible. Humans make mistakes, bugs can sometimes regress and appear again. Humans are flawed, humans write flawed code. Would you rather have a broken update or one that's stable enough to roll out to everyone?
Google, Sprint, and AT&T could all handle this better with some actual communication. However, I don't think any of them are holding back ICS intentionally. They are obviously working out issues and when they feel it is ready, they will release it. I'm not sure what the original poster is trying to gain by this crusade.
bozzykid said:
Google, Sprint, and AT&T could all handle this better with some actual communication. However, I don't think any of them are holding back ICS intentionally. They are obviously working out issues and when they feel it is ready, they will release it. I'm not sure what the original poster is trying to gain by this crusade.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am trying to gain some transparency. I never stated that I thought ICS was being held back. But lets face it, there is no money in updating phones. The money is in selling them. I do believe that if more resources were put into development of updates it would result in faster updates. You would think this would be a priority for Google, at least with their flagship line of Nexus phones. Really, if this is what the "Nexus Experience" is supposed to be, then I am not on board. Second Sprint should have never sold this phone as a Nexus experience with "updates as soon as humanly possible" because the NS4G is not updated like the other GSM devices. Even Google has pulled CDMA Nexus's from it's Nexus developer page basically admitting that the update process works differently than the real (GSM) Nexus devices. I have a feeling this will all be happening again in a year when updates are needed for the Verizon and Sprint Galaxy Nexus.
My main goal is to draw attention to Sprint's and Google's mistakes as this whole process couldn't have been any more messed up. The more people that start criticizing these companies when they blatantly screw up the better off we will be in the long run. Staying silent for this long is just not the right way to be treating your customers. Especially when those customers are mainly the developers (Nexus devices are developer phones) who bolstered your OS to the number one OS in the world.
petrochemicals said:
My main goal is to draw attention to Sprint's and Google's mistakes as this whole process couldn't have been any more messed up. The more people that start criticizing these companies when they blatantly screw up the better off we will be in the long run. Staying silent for this long is just not the right way to be treating your customers. Especially when those customers are mainly the developers (Nexus devices are developer phones) who bolstered your OS to the number one OS in the world.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think creating a blog full of screenshots of you ranting at community managers (that have no sway or special information, or right to speak on sprint's behalf) is helping at all.
Explain what you think 'as fast as humanly possible' means in the context of a highly complex and sensitive phone software rollout. There is a lot that could go wrong and delay an update, you know the update is coming. You are not paying a monthly fee for updates to your phone, find me the line in your phone contract that says that. A line on a product's website isn't a contractually binding agreement, maybe false advertising. If you wanted to prove that however you'd need proof that google and sprint engineers weren't even working on porting the software, and we know they are.
IMHO this is a little silly. Why does it even matter at this point? Almost every single ROM that is developed or being developed is ICS. We already have it so why would we need ota?
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using xda premium
Bauxite said:
I don't think creating a blog full of screenshots of you ranting at community managers (that have no sway or special information, or right to speak on sprint's behalf) is helping at all.
Explain what you think 'as fast as humanly possible' means in the context of a highly complex and sensitive phone software rollout. There is a lot that could go wrong and delay an update, you know the update is coming. You are not paying a monthly fee for updates to your phone, find me the line in your phone contract that says that. A line on a product's website isn't a contractually binding agreement, maybe false advertising. If you wanted to prove that however you'd need proof that google and sprint engineers weren't even working on porting the software, and we know they are.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it is false advertising. The Nexus S 4G was falsely advertised by Sprint to me and everyone else when purchasing it, as receiving "OS updates as soon as humanly possible". As for the definition I would consider it to be defined as the first time they released the OS back in December of last year. Google is to blame for making a shoddy OS that didn't work when it was released. If they would bother actually putting any real kind of money into the development and work force that does design these updates, then maybe it would have worked the first time they released it. But like I said before there is no money in updates, so the development of them will reflect that. Just like we have seen here.
Why you feel the need to protect billion dollar companies, I am not really sure. Any kind of company like these should be criticized constantly, otherwise they will walk all over us, just as they are in this situation. The bottom line is Sprint and Google have screwed up. The more attention that is drawn to that fact, the better. More transparency is needed in Sprint and Google's relationship with their customers and that is not going to be fixed by people like you that are making excuses for them.
petrochemicals said:
Google is to blame for making a shoddy OS that didn't work when it was released. If they would bother actually putting any real kind of money into the development and work force that does design these updates, then maybe it would have worked the first time they released it. But like I said before there is no money in updates, so the development of them will reflect that. Just like we have seen here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And you just lost the argument entirely. Android 4.0 was developed for one phone at the start, the Galaxy Nexus, they stated it would come to the Nexus S eventually. Your argument is that the software is crap because they haven't written the device drivers fast enough for you. You want them to release broken software because you are entitled to fast updates.
Apparently to you 'as fast as humanly possible' means something entirely different, where humans are perfect creatures that never make coding mistakes. And on the off chance that the code was perfect to start it still takes time to TEST, time that has paid off already because they would have released a buggy update.
You can't just hire more engineers and throw more money at something to make it go faster. You assume your monthly WIRELESS USAGE fees go towards software development for one of sprint's 20+ phones. They don't.
Get over your false entitlement, they don't owe you anything.
lol @ people getting angry over ICS not being released yet
.... clearly you didn't have an Epic 4g and have to wait from September to March of the next year for Gingerbread.... we have nothing to complain about here in the NS4g forums
Quite honestly, yes the wait sucks, but it'll be worth it to not have the same type of bugs as NS3G users on TMobile and other international carries are facing. I used OICS then went back to gingerbread in December and have been waiting until the official OTA because I know it'll be better than ANY of the roms we have yet! Yes Sprint sucks, but they're trying to protect us. Also, as aforementioned by snowmanwithahat, at least we aren't like Epic 4G users and waiting 6 months or the other countless people in 2 year contracts not even on GB. Plus, no other phone that isn't a Nexus S has gotten the OTA yet so until then I'm still happy. I will, however, be furious if any other Sprint phone gets it first... Just my 2 pennies...
To ALL,
I just had an idea that might actually force the Motorola to update our Atrix.
Before you think: "Is it another mobilization? No use, will not go nowhere," let me explain:
Actually, since there was a huge mobilization in this direction, but unfortunately, nowadays, petitions (signatures) no longer work as before.
Today petitions has very little visibility, limited almost only one who signed himself. This is not enough to achieve the target company directly, and even if we reach a sufficient number to lawsuits, companies have good lawyers that can prolong the process for years ...
Thus, when we can force the Motorola Atrix update to 4.0, we'll be running 8.0 on other phones ... Unfortunately it does.
Therefore, I am proposing a new form of mobilization, which will not reach the courts, but will use freedom of expression to reach the Motorola where it really hurts, in their public image!
We have seen many cases where "viral videos" have reached millions of hits and really solved certain problems. This is because the company's image just impaired, and it will always want to improve your public image again.
Anyway, the idea is the same, VIRAL VIDEOS.
But not just a video with millions of hits, but thousands of videos!
The idea is each record its own video, which should be short, with only a few seconds, stating the following sentence: MOTOROLA, UPDATE MY PHONE!
- You can record video wherever and however you want, if possible showing the phone, so that everyone knows that this is an Atrix.
- You can supplement with more phrases, like: DO NOT LET DIE ATRIX, or ATRIX IS AN EXCELLENT PHONE, or STOP DISRESPECT THE CONSUMER.
- If you have sufficient knowledge, feel free to make videos more elaborate, like this or this (I’m from Brazilm and I don’t know others international samples).
LET US FILL ALL YOUTUBE WITH THESE VIDEOS!
Post here your links to your videos, share links on social networks, to publish as much as possible!
Soon I'll be doing mine, and you?
Wow this is good idea Thanks
No.
Stop begging. Stop humiliating yourself.
You won't get your Atrix updated.
The only real cure is to stop purchasing anything Motorola has to offer.
Ignore them! The same way they ignore you.
I bought myself a Nexus 4.
I have to agree with the 'stop' sentiments. The arrogance of the person who was supposedly in charge of Atrix development is plain for everyone to see here http://sourceforge.net/motorola/atrix/discussion/general_comments/thread/5b551bd6/?limit=25&page=0
'
Gopi Palaniappan
6 days ago
Dear Leon,
I am that committed Motorola resource What is it that you need besides the ICS kernel sources that we are already working on? btw..I have done some kernel hacking myself in my past life so its not like I don't understand what this is all about.
I am not saying that because I am an ego-maniac I seriously want to help where I can. I can't pull out engineers working on critical stuff to come to this forum and listen to rants. If you want their help, you need to ask yourself "what is it that I want to ask them when they are assigned to me( besides ICS kernel )".
AFAIK, there is no other request besides the ICS kernel. Also, I have been on direct IM with people who have been working on porting ICS on their own and even they have said that the only way to make progress is to get the entire kernel source.
Before I can go to engineering and ask for support, I need to know what they are going to be doing. That would help me determine which door I need to knock.
You can't blindly ask for engineering support. There are many people with varying skillsets working on various projects. I cannot just commit to assign a resource when I don't know who & what for. So when I mean " Assigning internal developers on this will not be possible" I meant I am still understanding what the community wants besides ICS kernel.
Lastly, No matter what I say, the community perception ain't going to change until we deliver something. We understand that very well. I think I have been as honest as I can be on this forum. We need to get appropriate clearance from carriers, partners and vendors to release software that never shipped out. You cant just go to them and demand for it. At the same time we don't want to jeopardize any other negotiations that may be going on with them. There is timing involved as well as cost/benefit projections. And you'd be surprised that after all the crap that gets posted, Motorola is still committed to try to make it happen.
Hope that puts the question of commitments to rest. Lets move on..
We want to see more posts in this format:
Hey Motorola, I am stuck because I ran into this problem [INSERT YOUR PROBLEM HERE]. I am trying to do this [INSERT YOUR GOALS or WHAT YOU WANT TO ACCOMPLISH].
I have contacted the forums and have also tried to do this [INSERT ANY WORKAROUNDS AND RESULTS] but still have no luck.
I think you can really help me in these areas [INSERT SPECIFIC HELP YOU NEED]
And btw, the stuff I am working on is really cool and will benefit the world in the following ways[INSERT THE BENEFITS]
====
I'd like to hear anything besides request for kernel sources, unlocking bootloader, rooting the device.'
enough said. Pricks.
maajstor said:
No.
Stop begging. Stop humiliating yourself.
You won't get your Atrix updated.
The only real cure is to stop purchasing anything Motorola has to offer.
Ignore them! The same way they ignore you.
I bought myself a Nexus 4.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is just exactly what Motorola wants hear from us. "We are give it up this update..."
YES, I'll follow this mobilization. Motorola will never hear us until its flag will stained with its own neglect.
Follow me who wants your update.
Good idea bro. Even if we don't support motorola in purchasing their product, there are many people out there than us especially those who upgraded to latest Moto devices that support Moto. And they will never give a damn unless we staind them in public.
Sent from my Motorola Atrix 4G
u know i dont really care for the update... i just want to use my phone like i want so i think to release the kernel source or source code would be better. Getting that would be higher. If u are unsatisfied with the atrix get another phone and learn from the past: "if want update. Buy A Nexus!!". i only bought atrix because of the lapdock if u dont use it than u phone choice was slightly bad.
Just for and end: Just use that u already have and if u complain then u choice was just bad. Learn from the mistakes, thats life
I was in your shoes once. Move on, accept you won't get an update and make sure you remember this when you buy a new phone.
I bought a Nexus 4. Came with Android 4.2, awesome build quality and specs and not to mention so cheap. Stick with the Nexus line in the future.
coolnow said:
I was in your shoes once. Move on, accept you won't get an update and make sure you remember this when you buy a new phone.
I bought a Nexus 4. Came with Android 4.2, awesome build quality and specs and not to mention so cheap. Stick with the Nexus line in the future.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
NOOOO!!!, Just No!
My first videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAA1gfnfaWU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfqGcKacI0c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDD_AjDC4CU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DX0TTysucYo
I think this is a great idea.
And for those saying that you are tired of this and that we should move to another phone, not all of us live in great countries like united states where this stuff is actually cheap, i paid a fortune for this phone 7 months ago and i really cant pay again for another phone that is updated, not that i dont have money, but in my country phones are too ****ing expensive for just tossing them into the trash when we dont like them anymore, so shut the hell up and leave this forum if you already bought another beautiful smartphone, but there is a lot of us which can't buy another one so every shot we have to make motorola suffer and give us hope for an update, is more than enough.
Goodbye!
Here at Brazil, a nexus 4 costs about US$ 1000, not only US$399 or less that it costs at USA.
Here, a Xiaomi MI2 costs about US$ 900, a Razr HD about US$ 800, and the Atrix about US$ 500, the same as an used Galaxy Nexus. They are very expensive phones. I can't simply buy another and abandon it.
So, I'll really fight for this update!
danilocps87 said:
Here at Brazil, a nexus 4 costs about US$ 1000, not only US$399 or less that it costs at USA.
Here, a Xiaomi MI2 costs about US$ 900, a Razr HD about US$ 800, and the Atrix about US$ 500, the same as an used Galaxy Nexus. They are very expensive phones. I can't simply buy another and abandon it.
So, I'll really fight for this update!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i can understand u. thats means u bought a phone so u can get the update and the functions. But life isnt like that... motorola is going to go down so i am thinking that they dont care anymore about the old phones because its too old. They have to make better phones (razr, razr i,...) that means to develop webtop,ics or something else its not worth for old phones.
Sry to say but u have live with it or fight against motorola but it only waste some time and nerves... for norhthing
With due respect to all the people on this thread, i urge everyone to stop courting/begging/demanding Motorola to release at least something that our devs could work with. There's a far greater chance of our in-house devs coming up with a working kernel for JB than Motorola listening to all the dissatisfied voices.
Guys, please stop to post here only to say "stop with this".
If you really don't believe in the idea here, respect the much others than believe, and just share the videos!
Thanks!
maajstor said:
No.
Stop begging. Stop humiliating yourself.
You won't get your Atrix updated.
The only real cure is to stop purchasing anything Motorola has to offer.
Ignore them! The same way they ignore you.
I bought myself a Nexus 4.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is a known fact that it's Google that pulled the plug on the Atrix. So you basically just gave your money to the same motherf****
It is a real shame, such a great phone..
Motofail..
A great phone
A great hardware for me
But support of the motorola is a great FAIL
Enviado de meu MB860 usando o Tapatalk 2
Tiagodanielfb said:
A great phone
A great hardware for me
But support of the motorola is a great FAIL
Enviado de meu MB860 usando o Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who need motorola when we have greats devs here in xda? ...I cant sell my atrix and buy a new phone...but my hopes are on mmontouri and kristianp...
Sent from my MB860 using xda premium
For those that think Moto will die, I have this to say:
Google bought them out, and Google is both honorable to us and respectful to our privacy. Just look at their privacy policy if you think they sell the information they collect. They don't. What they collect, they use for the sole purpose of improving their own products. I have a brother working for Google as in idea development, and a dear friend working for Google in the security dept. They both state that their users (specifically privacy) are their top concern at every moment.
That being said: with how big Google is, I seriously doubt Motorola will be dying anytime soon.
Now that doesn't mean Google has full control of Motorola. I realize that, but I have noticed some changes. For example, I noticed that they have a Bootloader Unlock Program now.
Not only that, but the build quality of their products have significantly increased.
I am not going to take sides on this argument of wanting the updates. Regardless of the fact that I want the updates, these phones are old, and there are companies Motorola has to go through to release this update or release the source code. For example: AT&T, Bell, or whatever carrier you have. This can take months to complete this process.
I honestly think Motorola has gotten the message that people want these updates, and I personally think that the only reason Motorola gets bad rep nowadays is because people are blaming them for things that aren't completely under their control. And if that is the case, spreading these videos only achieve one thing: more bad rep for a company that needs good rep to survive.
I have heard bad things about Motorola in the past, but I know Google is a good company, and I think that changes are going to come that will make Motorola a much better company, possibly even better than most other manufacturers. (I know that's exaggerating a bit...ahem...HTC, but still...you never know.)