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Hi Bros,
I got a gift from my Hong Kong friend which is Note 4 but is N910U, which is different from US ATT version N910A.
I check up the LTE band, N910U support the below cellular:
GSM850, GSM900, GSM1800, GSM1900, UMTS850 (B5), UMTS900 (B8), UMTS1900 (B2), UMTS2100 (B1), LTE2100 (B1), LTE850 (B5), LTE1700/2100 (B4), LTE1800 (B3), LTE2600 (B7), LTE1900 (B2), LTE900 (B8), LTE700 (B28)
For ATT in my area, LTE mostly are using band 4 and band 17. Sure it should able to using ATT LTE even band 4 is the only band available in N910U.
However, I insert the ATT SIM card, it not going to LTE, mostly the top signal icon only show U+/U, seldom show 4G. Sure never have 4G LTE show up.
I call up ATT customer service and I also provide the IMEI # for them and see they can manual register this IMEI # into their database for LTE support, but they said this IMEI show non LTE support. Even they tell me the APN manual set up, also I x check with my existing unlock Oneplus One, but still cannot switch to 4G LTE band.
I also use LTE Discovery App to confirm my area what is the LTE band, I'm sure when I'm using band 4 on my Oneplus One, this N910U still not connected to band 4, just stay at U/U+ only.
I don't know should I need to talk to a more technical person in ATT? Or this is a business issue that ATT will not support unlock phone from outside even LTE band is matching ATT?
I need some advise from you, my wife love this phone as she are on Note 4 for 2 years and she like to use stylus too.
tkcctkcc said:
Hi Bros,
I got a gift from my Hong Kong friend which is Note 4 but is N910U, which is different from US ATT version N910A.
I check up the LTE band, N910U support the below cellular:
GSM850, GSM900, GSM1800, GSM1900, UMTS850 (B5), UMTS900 (B8), UMTS1900 (B2), UMTS2100 (B1), LTE2100 (B1), LTE850 (B5), LTE1700/2100 (B4), LTE1800 (B3), LTE2600 (B7), LTE1900 (B2), LTE900 (B8), LTE700 (B28)
For ATT in my area, LTE mostly are using band 4 and band 17. Sure it should able to using ATT LTE even on band 4 is available in my area.
However, I insert the ATT SIM card, it not going to LTE, mostly the top signal icon only show U+/U, seldom show. Sure never have 4G LTE show up.
I call up ATT customer service and I also provide the IMEI # for them and see they can manual register this IMEI # into their database for LTE support, but they said this IMEI show non LTE support. Even they tell me the APN manual set up, also I x check with my existing unlock Oneplus One, but still cannot switch to 4G LTE band.
I also use LTE Discovery App to confirm my area what is the LTE band, I'm sure when I'm using band 4 on my Oneplus One, this N910U still not connected to band 4, just stay at U/U+ only.
I don't know should I need to talk to a more technical person in ATT? Or this is a business issue that ATT will not support unlock phone from outside even LTE band is matching ATT?
I need some advise from you, my wife love this phone as she are on Note 4 for 2 years and she like to use stylus too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The AT&T cell towers does not fully support Intel 7260 modem inside your Galaxy Note 4 device. Most, if not all, devices sold in the US use Qualcomm Gobi modems and Ericsson X modems. The only option I can think of is receiving a new authentication from the cell towers by asking AT&T for a new SIM card.
tkcctkcc said:
Hi Bros,
I got a gift from my Hong Kong friend which is Note 4 but is N910U, which is different from US ATT version N910A.
I check up the LTE band, N910U support the below cellular:
GSM850, GSM900, GSM1800, GSM1900, UMTS850 (B5), UMTS900 (B8), UMTS1900 (B2), UMTS2100 (B1), LTE2100 (B1), LTE850 (B5), LTE1700/2100 (B4), LTE1800 (B3), LTE2600 (B7), LTE1900 (B2), LTE900 (B8), LTE700 (B28)
For ATT in my area, LTE mostly are using band 4 and band 17. Sure it should able to using ATT LTE even band 4 is the only band available in N910U.
However, I insert the ATT SIM card, it not going to LTE, mostly the top signal icon only show U+/U, seldom show 4G. Sure never have 4G LTE show up.
I call up ATT customer service and I also provide the IMEI # for them and see they can manual register this IMEI # into their database for LTE support, but they said this IMEI show non LTE support. Even they tell me the APN manual set up, also I x check with my existing unlock Oneplus One, but still cannot switch to 4G LTE band.
I also use LTE Discovery App to confirm my area what is the LTE band, I'm sure when I'm using band 4 on my Oneplus One, this N910U still not connected to band 4, just stay at U/U+ only.
I don't know should I need to talk to a more technical person in ATT? Or this is a business issue that ATT will not support unlock phone from outside even LTE band is matching ATT?
I need some advise from you, my wife love this phone as she are on Note 4 for 2 years and she like to use stylus too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know where you got your info but I am sure it is wrong. According to Samsung on this site http://www.samsung.com/nz/consumer/mobile-phone/smartphone/smartphone/SM-N910UZWENZC
it does not support AT&T's LTE bands.
tkmobilesupport said:
The AT&T cell towers does not fully support Intel 7260 modem inside your Galaxy Note 4 device. Most, if not all, devices sold in the US use Qualcomm Gobi modems and Ericsson X modems. The only option I can think of is receiving a new authentication from the cell towers by asking AT&T for a new SIM card.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So it is not related to N910U using Samsung Exynos 5 Octa 5433? Is the modem itself? Or Exynos 5 Octa 5433 embedded the 7260 modem which is not support by ATT cell towers?
Let me go ATT shop to get a replacement SIM and see how it work or not. Thanks.
PS: I try to search the detail spec for N910U, it never point out using Intel 7260 modem, how to know the phone using the exact modem? So in future can understand more before getting new unlock phone. Thanks.
CodeNameRedNeck said:
I don't know where you got your info but I am sure it is wrong. According to Samsung on this site http://www.samsung.com/nz/consumer/mobile-phone/smartphone/smartphone/SM-N910UZWENZC
it does not support AT&T's LTE bands.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi,
The link you post here is not Hong Kong, pls see the below official Samsung HK:
http://www.samsung.com/hk_en/consumer/mobile/galaxy-note/galaxy-note/SM-N910UZWETGY
4G FDD LTE: B1(2100), B2(1900), B3(1800), B4(AWS), B5(850), B7(2600), B8(900), B28(700)
So it absolutely support LTE band from ATT
another 3rd parties link:
http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=specs&...g_sm-n910u_galaxy_note_4_lte-a_samsung_muscat
The issue is not from the exynos chipset, but the modem itself. I can assure you that SM-N910U comes with Intel 7260 LTE modem because I've been working with Samsung Software Engineers to develop kernels and drivers for this modem.
To clarify... AT&T engineers has programmed the towers in a way that make the towers reject certain modems because they cannot guarantee the compatiblity. What they are trying to do is to make you use a more stable HSPA+ connection rather than LTE connection that has issues with the modem because in the long run, AT&T will have to give you credit for service disruptions and they are not willing to do that.
tkmobilesupport said:
The issue is not from the exynos chipset, but the modem itself. I can assure you that SM-N910U comes with Intel 7260 LTE modem because I've been working with Samsung Software Engineers to develop kernels and drivers for this modem.
To clarify... AT&T engineers has programmed the towers in a way that make the towers reject certain modems because they cannot guarantee the compatiblity. What they are trying to do is to make you use a more stable HSPA+ connection rather than LTE connection that has issues with the modem because in the long run, AT&T will have to give you credit for service disruptions and they are not willing to do that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks bros. So just a only customer (or few more) using N910U, ATT engineering team will not change their policy to accept other modems or work out some software upgrade program to accept other modem with 100% compatibility. So bad then.
tkmobilesupport said:
The issue is not from the exynos chipset, but the modem itself. I can assure you that SM-N910U comes with Intel 7260 LTE modem because I've been working with Samsung Software Engineers to develop kernels and drivers for this modem.
To clarify... AT&T engineers has programmed the towers in a way that make the towers reject certain modems because they cannot guarantee the compatiblity. What they are trying to do is to make you use a more stable HSPA+ connection rather than LTE connection that has issues with the modem because in the long run, AT&T will have to give you credit for service disruptions and they are not willing to do that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1 more, I search multiple tear down webpage, sure not yet find any one tear down N910U, but find a name Qualcomm MDM9225M, is this the one you talk about the modem?
PS: I search it, it is belong to Qualcomm Gobi modem chipsets. So if not using Qualcomm 805 as processor, that means they are not using Qualcomm chipset for thin modem and so ATT not going to support. Qualcomm dominate the US market then. Too bad.
tkcctkcc said:
Thanks bros. So just a only customer (or few more) using N910U, ATT engineering team will not change their policy to accept other modems or work out some software upgrade program to accept other modem with 100% compatibility. So bad then.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No they will not. Unfortunately, that's how carriers in the U.S. do their jobs.
-->About the modem: If you are not using a Qualcomm Snapdragon 805, your device comes with either Intel 7260, Ericsson, or Samsung 300 modems. SM-N910U uses Intel.
Hi Bros,
As coming Galaxy S6 not using Snapdragon 810, but using Exynos 7420, so the modems also not using Qualcomm,. Do you know S6 using what modem? If S6 using Intel modem or other like what you said Ericsson, or Samsung 300 modems, ATT should change their software to support non Qualcomm modem, which means my N910U may able to use ATT 4G LTE support? Can you advise?
Based on my reading for months on here. N910C seems to be the only variant with exynos and supports AT&T LTE.
I bought mine about 2 weeks ago and so far I get LTE in most places.
I bought my phone in Europe and use it there a couple times, when I bought it I was under the impression it is unlocked and has aws network. Now in Canada I put the sim card in the phone for mobilicity network and I can't get it to connect. It puts me into Canadian roaming at all times (no service). The network is on a 3g band as they don't have LTE. In the phone specs it says:4G FDD LTE B1(2100), B2(1900), B3(1800), B4(AWS), B5(850), B7(2600), B8(900), B17(700), B20(800)
Another thing is that when I turn my phone on it gives me a carrier logo at the beginning from a European countries network but at the time there I was using a different network so Its not carrier locked. Could it be region locked and how can I check and unlock it? Please help as I wasted too much money as it is. Thank you
Dear Experts :
I'm in the process of buying a new unlocked Galaxy Note 4, after using my legendary Galaxy S II for 4 years so far, and i need your help regarding which version should i get ..
for those who are unaware the SM-N910W8 has the Snapdragon 805 CPU, while the SM-N910U has the Exynos 5433
i live in Canada and right now i am with Wind network, there is a slight chance i might switch to Fido depending on my data usage after i get my Note 4, anyhow my question is :
which of the two should i buy in terms of network speed, ROM development and availability for customization, Phone heating ... i honestly cant think of more differences than that but if there is then please enlighten me
Please help me decide .
up
I choose N910w8, for me is faster than N910U and more friendly with the battery... that's a simple opinion so good luck!
Wind or the Big 3
Wind frequency: UMTS band AWS (1700/2100) No LTE at the moment
Fido frequency: GSM, UMTS, HSPA and HSPA+ at 850 MHz and 1900 MHz. To access LTE network, the phone must be compatible with: 700 MHz on Band 17; 1700/2100 MHz on Band 4
First, let list some of the features of these devices N910W8 (Snapdragon), N910U and N910C (both Exynos 5433/Octa core)
For N910C Asia, Europe, South America version: Network 4G LTE FDD
2G GSM: GSM850, GSM900, DCS1800, PCS1900
3G UMTS: B1(2100), B2(1900), B5(850), B8(900)
4G FDD LTE: B1(2100), B2(1900), B3(1800), B4(AWS), B5(850), B7(2600), B8(900), B17(700), B20(800)
***It cannot be use with WIND b/c it does not have band AWS for 3G but only for 4G. However, you can use this phone with the BIG 3 and on FIDO as it has 2 LTE bands, which FIDO currently using.
For N910U Hong Kong, Taiwan, Australia, New Zealand, Chile version: 4G LTE FDD
2G GSM: GSM850, GSM900, DCS1800, PCS1900
3G UMTS: B1(2100), B2(1900), B5(850), B8(900)
4G FDD LTE: B1(2100), B2(1900), B3(1800), B4(AWS), B5(850), B7(2600), B8(900), B28(700)
*** it too cannot be use with WIND b/c it does not have band AWS for 3G but only for 4G. However, you can use this phone with the BIG 3 and on FIDO. BUT THE DIFFERENT BETWEEN THIS AND N910C is that this only has 1 LTE bands, which FIDO currently using and DO NOT HAVE band 17. So, you may not get good LTE speed compare to N910C model.
For N910W8 Canadian model: 2G GSM, 3G WCDMA, 4G LTE FDD
2G GSM: GSM850, GSM900, DCS1800, PCS1900
3G UMTS: B1(2100), B2(1900), B4(AWS), B5(850)
4G FDD LTE: B1(2100), B2(1900), B3(1800), B4(AWS), B5(850), B7(2600), B8(900), B12(700), B17(700)
*** It can be use with ALL CANADIAN NETWORK including WIND AND MOBILICITY. It can also run all LTE network in Canada at max potential b/c it has all of the bands, which Canadian Networks use.
If you choose to use WIND, your choice for which Note 4 model is clear
I have a friend who has SM-N910S model from Korea ( Exynos 5433/Octa core). He uses it on a Canadian network and he notices that his battery runs dry very quickly compare to my Note 4 (N910W8). I think that b/c for all of the international models like N910C or U, they have different radios and try to look for the signals differently compare to the Canadian version (N910W8). Hence, low life battery. So be careful and choose wisely as well b/c I do not think you want to have only 3-4 hours of screen on-time eh?
ROM development
Back when the phone was initially coming to the market, owning the Snapdragon was a plus b/c if I remember correctly, it was the 1st version to be Rooted successfully, while the Exynos have to wait. Same go with ROM as well. But I think the market has been saturated with both model, you cannot go wrong with either one. But I think that if you want to try out the earliest ROM or changes, the Snapdragon will be more suitable.
However, if Samsung decides to push 64 bit software support, then the Exynos variants are the best choice. But as of now, I think the Exynos still only runs 32 bit as Samsung has locked the 64 bit down. So will see!
Last week Sunday, I purchased my Note 4 from Wind on Wind tab $649.00 CAD. It is a great phone and I have no issue with it so far. The phone runs lighting fast, if you turn off some of Sammy features and animation.
I think present to you all of the information that I know about the Note 4 to the best of my abilities. I think you will be better off to get N910C rather then U if you have to choose between the two of them.
Now, depend on what you want and needs, N910C for raw power but limited as I listed reaons above or N910W8 for Wind and flexibility but lesser power compare to Exynos variants.
***TIPS*** if you look around expansys, ebay, you may get a good deal for N910C. But for N910W8, you have to buy it from Wind then. I would recommend you to buy out right as it a better option in the long run. If you have any question, let me know.
*****Source: from Samsung Website and GSMarena
Well, if you are a power user and need allot of processing power for apps and games. Then I would recommend the N910C rather than the N910U. As the N910C works on the same LTE bands for Canada while the N910U is design to work only on certain Asian specific LTE Bands. However you will still be able to use a N910C in Asia.
I received my OP5 today, and decided to try my Verizon SIM just for kicks. I was expecting to connect to LTE on band 2 or 4 (both of which are available in my area), but unfortunately I was not able to connect to LTE at all. I connected to 3G fine and was able to use data, just no LTE. I tried adding the vzwinternet APN, and swapped it in SIM 1 and SIM 2, without luck. Has anyone had luck getting LTE on Verizon?
How is that even possible? It's a GSM only phone, no CDMA...
After an OTA, I got LTE.Speedtest shows about 15mbps for downloading
asecretgate said:
How is that even possible? It's a GSM only phone, no CDMA...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It has CDMA. but only one version of it I think, BC0 or something?
mlyy said:
After an OTA, I got LTE.Speedtest shows about 15mbps for downloading
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really? What did you to do get it to work? Did you put it in SIM1 or SIM2? Did you add any APN settings? Did you activate it on Verizon or just swap the SIM?
geoff5093 said:
It has CDMA. but only one version of it I think, BC0 or something?
Really? What did you to do get it to work? Did you put it in SIM1 or SIM2? Did you add any APN settings? Did you activate it on Verizon or just swap the SIM?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I withdraw my statement. The signal drop to 3G within an hour. And never got LTE again. So as some people suggest that the LTE of Verizon won't work well on Oneplus 5.
Of course you wouldn't have LTE. Verizon use Band 13 which is not supported by the OP5. Here is a list of supported bands. 3G is the best you're going to get, if you want LTE switch to T-Mobile or AT&T they will work fine.
FDD LTE: Band 1/2/3/4/5/7/8/12/17/18/19/20/25/26/28/29/30/66
TDD LTE: Band 38/39/40/41
TD-SCDMA: Band 34/39
UMTS(WCDMA): Band 1/2/4/5/8
CDMA EVDO: BC0
GSM: 850/900/1800/1900 MHz
Kahun said:
Of course you wouldn't have LTE. Verizon use Band 13 which is not supported by the OP5. Here is a list of supported bands. 3G is the best you're going to get, if you want LTE switch to T-Mobile or AT&T they will work fine.
FDD LTE: Band 1/2/3/4/5/7/8/12/17/18/19/20/25/26/28/29/30/66
TDD LTE: Band 38/39/40/41
TD-SCDMA: Band 34/39
UMTS(WCDMA): Band 1/2/4/5/8
CDMA EVDO: BC0
GSM: 850/900/1800/1900 MHz
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Verizon doesn't only use band 13. As I mentioned in my earlier post, I live in an area where Verizon has LTE bands 2 and 4, yet neither work on the OP5 for some reason.
Been using it now for a couple days. Get decent service with Verizon. Switches between LTE and 3G. I also have a tmobs SIM. Been using tmobs for data which is mostly LTE. So between both service providers, I will hopefully have good service everywhere.
Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk
geoff5093 said:
Verizon doesn't only use band 13. As I mentioned in my earlier post, I live in an area where Verizon has LTE bands 2 and 4, yet neither work on the OP5 for some reason.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think band 13 is the main one they use. You might get LTE but it will be slow
Kahun said:
I think band 13 is the main one they use. You might get LTE but it will be slow
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Band 2 and 4 are what they use for speed and capacity, you can easily get 100Mbps+ on either of these bands in many markets, but again you don't get any LTE on Verizon for some reason.
Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk
geoff5093 said:
Verizon doesn't only use band 13. As I mentioned in my earlier post, I live in an area where Verizon has LTE bands 2 and 4, yet neither work on the OP5 for some reason.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Probably cos there's no apn settings for that connection so the phone doesn't know how to access it, see if you can find out the apn settings for LTE on Verizon and add a new apn entry
djsubterrain said:
Probably cos there's no apn settings for that connection so the phone doesn't know how to access it, see if you can find out the apn settings for LTE on Verizon and add a new apn entry
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As I mentioned in my first post, I did try manually setting the apn to vzwinternet and internet without any luck
Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk
So am I reading this correctly? The OnePlus 5 doesn't work on Verizon? That's a pretty important little piece of information.
subbed
It is very well known that OP phones don't play nicely with CDMA carriers....why is this even a discussion?
But this hasn't been tested and I can't find this anywhere.
From what I can tell, the SM-G975F has all the LTE bands that Verizon uses. Just not CDMA.
I have a OnePlus 6T, and to make it work on Verizon, the account/SIM for my number/phone it set by VZW to CDMA-Less mode. Takes them like 5 minutes and reboot, done. So I don't use CDMA ever because the OP6T and later don't support it either, but have all the LTE bands.
Has anybody tried putting a CDMA-Less Sim from Verizon that runs a setup like the OP6T/7/7 Pro in a Smsung SM-975F phone? Tempted to just buy a phone since I can't find anybody/know anyone locally with the 975F, and pop the sim in it and see what happens.
Here are the specs...all I can tell is besides the CDMA missing, it actually has all and more of the bands needed for Verizon LTE Only mode. Same as the OnePlus 6T.
SM-G975F Exynos 9820 Europe
2G GSM: GSM850, GSM900, DCS1800, PCS1900
3G UMTS: B1(2100), B2(1900), B4(AWS), B5(850), B8(900)
3G TD-SCDMA: B34(2010), B39(1880)
4G FDD LTE: B1(2100), B2(1900), B3(1800), B4(AWS), B5(850), B7(2600), B8(900), B12(700), B13(700), B17(700), B18(800), B19(800), B20(800), B25(1900), B26(800), B28(700), B32(1500), B66(AWS- 3)
4G TDD LTE: B38(2600), B39(1900), B40(2300), B41(2500)
SM-G975U Verizon phone
Snapdragon 855 Verizon – US
2G GSM: GSM850, GSM900, DCS1800, PCS1900
2G CDMA 1x: B13/B4/B2/B5/B66
3G UMTS: B1(2100), B2(1900), B5(850), B8(900)
3G CDMA: BC0(800), BC1(1900)
TD-SCDMA: Bands 34, 39
4G FDD LTE: B3(1800), B7(2600), B8(900), B18(800), B19(800), B20(800), B26(800), B28(700)
4G TDD LTE: B38(2600), B39(1900), B40(2300), B41(2500)
So, either people believe this won't work and tried and and I'm just another dumb user...or nobody cares. Oh well, guess I will buy one and give it a whirl..no reason this won't work...my OP6T does and it doesn't support CDMA. I plan on ditching Verizon in 4 months anyway, worse case I just wait and have a phone to move to on TMo/ATT etc...so really not out anything here. haha..
techlogik said:
So, either people believe this won't work and tried and and I'm just another dumb user...or nobody cares. Oh well, guess I will buy one and give it a whirl..no reason this won't work...my OP6T does and it doesn't support CDMA. I plan on ditching Verizon in 4 months anyway, worse case I just wait and have a phone to move to on TMo/ATT etc...so really not out anything here. haha..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm curious about this as well. Please let me know if you get it to work. Where will you buy your 975F?
I got a g975f for sale
The plan was to buy one off Swappa...they always have 975F/DS on there...but they are pretty pricey. Considering I can buy a brand new OP7T for the same price. But, the screen/cameras are pretty much top notch on the S10+ in comparison...soooooo.
Still haven't bought one, just waiting for the right one to come up. There are also plenty on eBay, but they tend to be a bit pricier there than Swappa.
Beta 4 came out today on firmware.science
techlogik said:
The plan was to buy one off Swappa...they always have 975F/DS on there...but they are pretty pricey. Considering I can buy a brand new OP7T for the same price. But, the screen/cameras are pretty much top notch on the S10+ in comparison...soooooo.
Still haven't bought one, just waiting for the right one to come up. There are also plenty on eBay, but they tend to be a bit pricier there than Swappa.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why not buy one from a seller on ebay that offers free returns, do the thing, then send back? As long as you're confident that you'll be able to return to stock if anything goes wrong, of course.
Verizon is discontinuing their CDMA service as of January 1st. It will continue to work for current customers until they replace their phones but Verizon won't activate a new CDMA device or add a new CDMA line after January 1st.
Since Verizon already offers GSM service and has been offering it for the past couple years trying to figure out if a phone will work with Verizon's CDMA service is pointless.
HEY
HTML:
thelaptopmaster said:
Why not buy one from a seller on ebay that offers free returns, do the thing, then send back? As long as you're confident that you'll be able to return to stock if anything goes wrong, of course.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How about you dont suggest people doing that and you dont do it. The people who sell on Ebay dont need to look at XDA as a bunch of losers who waste people's time and money. GROW UP and learn its not ok to use people.
jhs39 said:
Verizon is discontinuing their CDMA service as of January 1st. It will continue to work for current customers until they replace their phones but Verizon won't activate a new CDMA device or add a new CDMA line after January 1st.
Since Verizon already offers GSM service and has been offering it for the past couple years trying to figure out if a phone will work with Verizon's CDMA service is pointless.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can't read very well can you?
jhr5474 said:
HTML:
How about you dont suggest people doing that and you dont do it. The people who sell on Ebay dont need to look at XDA as a bunch of losers who waste people's time and money. GROW UP and learn its not ok to use people.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then why does anybody offer returns in this World?
Because they make so much money on the markup and bake it into the price to consumers.
I like the idea. Pretty sure it will work anyway, has all the bands.