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The Nexus ONe rides again - It's still a Star Here's the article
A flop with consumers, sold-out Nexus One scores with developers.
Google tried — and ultimately failed — to turn the U.S. wireless market upside-down by selling its supercharged Nexus One Android phone online, with minimal help from the big carriers. But now, months after shuttering its online storefront for the phone, the Nexus One is a sudden, improbable hit.
Who’s buying the Nexus One, you ask? Android developers, that’s who — and apparently, they’re so eager to get their mitts on the eight-month-old handset that Google supply of Nexus One phones for developers is completely sold out.
So says a post on Google’s Android developers blog (via TechCrunch), with Google’s Tim Bray writing that Google "blew through the (substantial) initial inventory in almost no time," adding that Nexus One manufacturer HTC is busy trying to crank out more of the suddenly gotta-have handsets.
Google launched the Nexus One — described in hushed tones as the "Google Phone" in the days and weeks before its official unveiling — way back in January, and the search behemoth caused quite a stir by offering the Android 2.1-powered handset only on the Web, through Google’s own Nexus One online storefront.
Why all the fuss? Because usually it’s the big carriers (think AT&T, Sprint, T-Mobile, and Verizon Wireless) who do the heavy lifting in terms of marketing and selling cell phones, both online and (mainly) in brick-and-mortar stores. While it got a little help from T-Mobile, which subsidized the Nexus One for use on its network, Google’s decision to go it virtually alone with the Nexus One — with practically no marketing help from a carrier—was seen as a potentially game-changing move.
Unfortunately, it turned out to be anything but. Sales of the Nexus One never took off, and an unprepared Google — which, before the Nexus One launch, had little need for a bank of customer-service reps — found itself quickly overwhelmed by customers complaining about iffy 3G reception (which ultimately led to a patch) and other assorted glitches.
Consumers were also underwhelmed by the less-than-revolutionary $179 two-year contract price and $529 price tag for an unlocked Nexus One, while existing T-Mobile users were turned off by the $379 upgrade price for the phone (which was eventually cut by $100). Last May, Google finally waved the white flag, announcing that it would close down its online Nexus One store.
So yes, Google learned the hard way that nothing beats a "full-court press by a big national carrier" (as I wrote back in May) when it comes to selling a smartphone. But here’s the thing: The well-reviewed Nexus One itself wasn’t a bad phone — indeed, it was (and still is) a pretty good one, complete with a 3.7-inch AMOLED screen, a 1GHz "Snapdragon" processor, 512MB of RAM, and a 5-megapixel camera with a flash.
The Nexus One also happened to be among the first handsets to get an update to Android 2.2 — a fact that clearly wasn’t lost on enthusiastic Android developers, who’ve been able to buy the unlocked Nexus One — in droves, apparently — direct from Google for a few weeks now.
In any case, Google is now in the strange but surely satisfying position of "working hard on re-stocking" (as Google’s TIm Bray puts it) a smartphone that looked all but dead just a few months ago. Strange, but true.
Google’s Android developers blog: A Little Too Popular (via TechCrunch)
— Ben Patterson is a technology writer for Yahoo! News.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ytech_gadg/20100820/tc_ytech_gadg/ytech_gadg_tc3447
guess that means that the nexus was more popular then Google thought
Sounds like the making of a Nexus 2 could become possible. Anybody else agree?
"The Nexus One also happened to be among the first handsets to get an update to Android 2.2" - REALLY? It was THE first phone. And it wasn't a "pretty good" phone, it was the best on the market for several months after launch. I think this guy has some facts he needs to get straightened out.
I really think the nexus sold more units over time then people think, and is in demand more than people think. This kinda shows that. Google jumped the gun by closing their online store. Also they mis calculated by not making the nexus into a whole line of Google phones.
The Nexus would have taken off at the time, but Google saw fit to market their well known search engine at superbowls and such instead of a phone that no one heard of.
As much as Google may have fumbled the marketing of the Nexus One when it was sold publicly - all that aside...
The article makes a lot of noise without revealing any numbers which are key to really verifying the conclusion that the phone is becoming more popular as a developer phone.
Yes, Google sold out the developer allotment - that's great. But, they also sold out a few allotments of their public phone back in the day - most notably the last allotment they ordered in July which sold out a week or two earlier than expected. That fact alone doesn't mean anything without knowing how big the allotments were. For all the article states, the allotment for the developers could have been very tiny under the theory that a smaller audience produces less sales and most developers would probably have already ordered one when they were sold publicly anyway.
All we know is that someone was pleasantly surprised by the demand for it from the developer store and that the initial allotment - chosen specifically for that sales purpose - was underestimated.
But, we don't know if that represents higher overall demand (or even relative demand) compared to the public allotments. And we don't know if either demand represented enough market force for the company to have continued to pursue its business plan of being in the open market for handsets.
It also rankles me when they make supporting comments like "now, months after shuttering its online storefront". Sorry, it was less than 1 month since they shut down the storefront when they sold out the developer phones. And don't ignore that allotments were selling out during the consumer sales when you try to make it sound like the developer sell-out was unprecedented. The fact that it was almost 1 month after the shut down the store (not months like the author states) was *due* to a consumer sellout. Otherwise it would have only been a couple of weeks since the store front was scheduled to shut down.
I think the point is that with all these high end android phones out now, the fact that ANYONE is choosing the nexus still tells the story. Specific numbers don't really matter. This is especially true since all these other phones are subsidized on contract, and the nexus is full price, and still selling at all 7 months later.
RogerPodacter said:
I think the point is that with all these high end android phones out now, the fact that ANYONE is choosing the nexus still tells the story. Specific numbers don't really matter. This is especially true since all these other phones are subsidized on contract, and the nexus is full price, and still selling at all 7 months later.
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Hi Roger,
That is a good point, but it isn't the tone of the article. "A flop with consumers" - "the Nexus One is [now] a sudden, improbable hit" - "[developers buying] in droves, apparently".
A flop? Really?
Sudden hit? Really that sudden?
Improbable hit? Really?
It may have had marketing problems, but it was never a flop. The new MS phones being canceled a week after they were released - that's a flop for you. And there is nothing sudden about a sellout a couple of weeks after another sellout. Nor is there anything improbably about that, or anything that spells "hit". And how big is a "drove". Apparently it is so specific that they suddenly realize the complete lack of facts in their piece and have to tack on the word "apparently". So, the phone is now selling to developers in a manner that one can only suppose is describable by a term that is as vague as "droves". Cute.
I'm glad that it is still selling and I'm glad that it sold out its developer allotment, but this article is exaggerating the impact of those facts with hyperbole based on both lack of knowledge (believing that the phone has been off sale for "months", etc.) and assumption of facts not presented.
It would be one thing if they had said what you said "The developer allotment sold out which shows that there is still positive demand for a device that is this old, but without numbers we can't tell if the demand is actually stronger in its developer form than it was as a consumer offering". But no, they basically paint its consumer history as if they couldn't be given away and then, without any numbers, paint the developer demand as being so much stronger than anything anyone could have expected that Google was stupid to have canceled it.
Sorry, no, the sell-out indicates that someone, somewhere, was wrong about a prediction that was specific to developer sales and has no bearing whatsoever about how the demand now compares to the demand as a consumer phone or to any other currently shipping phones.
As far as longevity - the G1 was still being sold as recently as about a month ago. Technology alone doesn't really dictate sales, but it is an important driver.
Now that Google knows there is an appetite for a "super dev phone", might they also reconsider their decision to permanently shelve the UMTS 850/1900 version?
I hate articles like this. The facts are wrong which makes the whole article irrelevant. I think the problem with the Nexus One is that only the geeks here really heard about it. There was no advertising done what-so-ever.
Although I am surprised to see more and more people recognize it as "Is that the Google phone?".
I'm glad I bought mine when I did because they shut down the store. Now I love it even more knowing that every joe-smoe can't go out and pick one up. I like knowing that I have one of the best Android phones and "you" can't buy one anymore.
I think we'll see a huge demand for the N1 when Gingerbread comes out. I think it will take a lot of time and a lot more tweaking to get 3.0 on a 2.x device then it was 2.2 on top of 2.1. I'm just happy that Google is developing it specifically for my phone and I don't have to worry about having a buggy port.
First of all I am not what I would call a fan boy even though every major appliance in my house is a Samsung, even the dishwasher. I have an S3 phone and the Note 10.1 is my constant companion. Lately I have been wondering as we wait for JB update (both phone and tablet) if the Apple ruling in the USA is hampering the speed that we are getting Samsung updates or software. Hell, you can barely get any accessories for the Note 10.1 in the US much less an update. There are even issues with some software available on the the Samsung app store that due to licensing issues Samsung can't sell in the US but the rest of the world has full access.
I love my tablet and would not trade it for any other. Works great as it is and if JB never came I would be fine. However, I think that it is possible we will see a much different user experience here in the states over the next few years when it comes to Samsung Tablets and Phones than the rest of the world. Until Apple gets off the crack pipe and stops litigating every electronic item that comes out we may have an issue.
Thoughts?
rap6388 said:
...if the Apple ruling in the USA is hampering the speed that we are getting Samsung updates or software.
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It's just Samsung's priorities or lack thereof. HTC's just as bad. And both typically launch updates internationally first so our friends overseas aren't getting something we're not since other than the one German carrier ROM no Note has JB. The JB roll-out on the SGS3's not going particularly well and the One X JB update went back to the drawing board after problems were encountered when it was rolled out to the first region to receive it (Taiwan). So it’s the update process that sucks and the U.S. is just along for the ride.
Hell, you can barely get any accessories for the Note 10.1 in the US
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Or Europe. The car dock for the GN was released nine months after it was shown. Same thing for the wireless charging station for the SGS3. The U.S. actually got the book cover for the Note before Europe. The accessory line is just mismanaged; I don't think the U.S. fares better or worse than the rest of the world. And again, HTC's the same. Kind of makes you wonder why they offer accessories at all if they don't want to sell them.
I think that it is possible we will see a much different user experience here in the states over the next few years when it comes to Samsung Tablets and Phones than the rest of the world.
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You need to separate tablets and phones. Phones are always going to be a cluster here in the U.S because Samsung doesn't sell unlocked phones directly and the carriers here are notorious for their lack of urgency for getting updates out. The U.S. Wi-Fi Note is a Samsung direct device and so far hasn't been treated better or worse than its international relatives when it comes to updates. Samsung customizes the s/w by region for each device they sell. The U.S. is just another region and a big one at that. Certain Android features are blocked in the U.S. by both Samsung and HTC but so far that hasn’t appeared to affect the update schedule one way or the other.
Don't you guys never heard abaut ebay (de or gb). And considering on updates, sammobile page is available on whole earth.
No, its the same everywhere else. I'm in the uk and have received 0 updates.
im in egypt and no update
i wish the give the update to world wide very soon
I don't think I was clear. This is not about the JB update but just Samungs' position in the market right now with Apple hanging over their head based on the over the top billion dollar ruling.
For example, there is an app in Samsung market called DirectOffice Print. It is a great print app but the US owner can't buy the app on the app store because of contract issues Samsung has in the US. It is items like this and features that the US seem to miss that I am speaking of.
rap6388 said:
I don't think I was clear. This is not about the JB update but just Samungs' position in the market right now with Apple hanging over their head based on the over the top billion dollar ruling.
For example, there is an app in Samsung market called DirectOffice Print. It is a great print app but the US owner can't buy the app on the app store because of contract issues Samsung has in the US. It is items like this and features that the US seem to miss that I am speaking of.
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The Samsung App store not being able to manage payments in the U.S. is an infrastructure issue that has nothing to do with Apple. They've said U.S. payments will be in enable in Q1 2013. And the "billion dollar ruling" is a drop in the bucket; they made $7.4B in profit in Q3 of this year alone. By raising Apple's chip prices 20% they probably covered it if they indeed ever have to pay it. The Note V will be out by the time appeals are exhausted. If Samsung's not doing something or not doing it right it's because their Samsung. They get a lot right but they get a lot wrong too.
rap6388 said:
I don't think I was clear. This is not about the JB update but just Samungs' position in the market right now with Apple hanging over their head based on the over the top billion dollar ruling.
For example, there is an app in Samsung market called DirectOffice Print. It is a great print app but the US owner can't buy the app on the app store because of contract issues Samsung has in the US. It is items like this and features that the US seem to miss that I am speaking of.
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Well, as much as I hate to say it, this is how Sammy does business.
It's worse if you're in Canada.
Samsung Canada has a reciprocal agreement with Samsung USA not to sell to each other's market. But Samsung Canada doesn't feel there's much demand in Canada for computer products - just phones... (although it is getting better - we now have netbooks... Yes, that was sarcasm...) so we either get Samsung products late or not at all. And even though we're right on the border - we can cross border shop - we can't buy the products in the US online and have it shipped.
Ironically, Samsung opened their first North American full time store in Metrotown Mall in Burnaby British Columbia Canada (a suburb of Vancouver).but they can't show most of their products because they're not available in Canada and you can't buy them from the US.
And even though Canada uses the same cell and WiFi frequencies as the US, we get 'special' verisons of their products that block us from getting updates at the same time as the US. (That's why there's a GN 8010 AND a GN 8013 that are essentially identical). I had the same problem with my Galaxy Nexus phone - the Canadian version is a yakjuux which is supported (barely) by Samsung rather than the yakju version that's supported by Google directly,.
Like you - most of my hardware is Samsung - simply because they build exactly what I want. No one else does. But it means I have to drive to the US and buy these over the counter and drive them back, or have a friend in the US ship it to me.
I may like Samsung's products - but the company sucks...
Side note: Also, they're lousy at getting accessories in big box stores like Best Buy and Future Shop up here... I was trying to get a Note 10.1 Book case and the Samsung Store was out. They recommended going to BB or FS and I had to point out that neither of them actually carry any Samsung accessories - hell, it's hard enough finding the Note 10.1 in some of them...
I should have learned my lesson when I had my Tab 10.1, took them a year to update it to ICS. By the time they did that, I had been using unofficial ROM for about 4 months (give or take). Not acceptable. This is definitely my last Samsung tablet, even though I love it dearly. Samsung don't deserve one single dime for their awful commitment to customer's satisfaction.
Gotta get Nexus
if you want the latest ROMS
mrdaco said:
Don't you guys never heard abaut ebay (de or gb). And considering on updates, sammobile page is available on whole earth.
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That's not a solution. If I wanted to buy from unreliable and potentially shady resellers - I'd buy at Best Buy.
At least they have a return policy...
The point is that if you're going to make products, you should support them well. Or at all. Samsung is the leader in sales for smartphones and are rapidly growing in market share for tablets... yet they still can't get Best Buy to carry cases for their phones or tablets. All you get is the usual wall after wall of iDevice crap.
Best Buy isn't a charity - they carry what they think will sell - or what the manufacturer will pay them to carry (yes, surprise - manufacturers pay for special displays and 'endcaps' as well as for preferred positioning - higher on a shelf for example). Samsung has to spend a bit more to get the visibility Apple gets. They have to realise that customer support is more than just having a lousy website that's more about selling more product than about supporting the customers they already have...
But 'return customer' and 'customer loyalty' seems very low on Asian hardware maker's minds, it would seem.
TheWerewolf said:
But 'return customer' and 'customer loyalty' seems very low on Asian hardware maker's minds, it would seem.
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The h/w business is almost entirely Asian with the exception of Apple, Nokia, and Motorola. We've discussed update priorities, accessory availability, and general attention to existing customer's needs. Only Motorola sells Android devices so it's them vs. the Asians if you want to draw a comparison. I've owned devices from Motorola and most of the Asian manufacturers. Here's my conclusion: they all suck in the three categories we're discussing. Let's add a fourth category; product quality. Here's my quick assessment:
Samsung - Means well but gets caught up in their enormity. Their priority is clearly future sales but they generally tend to treat the existing customer base well. There are exceptions and the OG G-Tab update to ICS is a good one. By offering dozens of different s/w types on a single device they make their own life more difficult. Rolling out updates across regions is a cluster because of it. They have terrific warranty service and will pay roundtrip shipping for repairs and replace a device with a new one if parts aren't available. They suck at the number of accessories offered and making them available in a timely manner. Their products are generally well put together using premium components.
HTC - Has really been trying to get updates out more quickly and with better quality. The One X has been updated to three new Android versions and has gotten three new versions of Sense since March. In spite of that it still takes too long to get updates out and they've had some pretty bad s/w that's been deployed without being thoroughly tested. Their warranty service is hit or miss depending on region. The U.S. isn't too bad and they do seem to try to get things right. They have a really nice variety of accessories; good luck trying to find them in stock anywhere. Their products are made from premium components but they've had a lot of QC issues with their latest devices. Good examples are extremely well made. They don't provide warranty support for devices that have had their bootloaders unlocked.
LG - Their support in the U.S. is atrocious and the rest of the world is a mixed bag. An alarming number of their products over the past two years have had design and h/w issues. Examples are overheating, spontaneous rebooting, boot loops, and sporadic wireless performance. Both the new Optimus G and N4 have thermal throttling issues so it doesn't seem like much has changed. The HTC Droid DNA has the same chip set and isn't experiencing similar issues. They are absolutely atrocious at updates. They offer few accessories and what's offered is impossible to find. Their devices are built well but it doesn't matter if they have fatal design flaws. The customer has to pay to ship a device to LG for repair.
Asus - They put more effort in to serving their existing customers than any other Android manufacturer. They are quick to update their devices, have representatives commenting on XDA, and try to address issues they're made aware of. Their warranty service is atrocious with frequent claims of "customer induced damage" for known issues. It can take weeks to get a device repaired and it's difficult to get an accurate status. Customers pay shipping to get the device to Asus. Their products are made from inferior and in some cases outdated components. They also have an abnormally high number of QC issues. The latter two elements along with crappy repair service sort of negate their customer service efforts. They offer a few basic accessories that seem to be generally more available compared to other manufacturers. When they introduce a new device its a cluster trying to find it and, because they're offered in multiple colors, finding the matching keyboard. They don't provide warranty support for devices that have had their bootloaders unlocked.
Sony - There are tied with LG for being worst at keeping their devices updated. I'm not familiar with their mobile device service but I've used them for PC service and they've been very responsive. Their products are generally well made but always seem to be a cycle behind everyone else design, feature and s/w wise. They tend to do well with offering accessories and making them readily available but they are very expensive.
Motorola - Their support of existing customers is tragic compared to the Asians. Even after Google acquired them they announced that late-2011 high-end devices that they promised upgrades to ICS for wouldn't be receiving them. They offered affected customers $100 off a future Motorola phone instead. They are also worse than the Asians at updates they do roll out. Their warranty and repair service is generally good. Their products are well made but MotoBlur is considered the worst of the overlays. It has been toned down on newer phones but is still far less complete than Sense or TW. They offer quite a few accessories but they are quite expensive. They are fairly easy to find. But in comparing Motorola to the Asians their complete lack of regard for existing customers makes them the worst of a bad lot. They don't provide warranty support for devices that have had their bootloaders unlocked.
So, at the end of the day, there aren't really any stand-out winners. Toshiba, Acer, and Lenovo are bit players based on the low volume of devices they sell so I haven't included them. From general observation they aren't typically known to be any better or worse than the companies I've described. So balancing all four criteria Samsung and HTC, IMHO, are the best of a bad lot (at least in the Android world). Since Samsung seems to be taking over the Android world any way we might not have to worry about comparisons for very much longer.
Thoughts? Personal experiences?
BarryH_GEG said:
The h/w business is almost entirely Asian with the exception of Apple, Nokia, and Motorola. We've discussed update priorities, accessory availability, and general attention to existing customer's needs. Only Motorola sells Android devices so it's them vs. the Asians if you want to draw a comparison. I've owned devices from Motorola and most of the Asian manufacturers. Here's my conclusion: they all suck in the three categories we're discussing. Let's add a fourth category; product quality. Here's my quick assessment:
...
So, at the end of the day, there aren't really any stand-out winners. Toshiba, Acer, and Lenovo are bit players based on the low volume of devices they sell so I haven't included them. From general observation they aren't typically known to be any better or worse than the companies I've described. So balancing all four criteria Samsung and HTC, IMHO, are the best of a bad lot (at least in the Android world). Since Samsung seems to be taking over the Android world any way we might not have to worry about comparisons for very much longer.
Thoughts? Personal experiences?
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Sounds like Samsung should hire Asus to support their products and Asus should get Samsung build their products.
Vincent9756 said:
Sounds like Samsung should hire Asus to support their products and Asus should get Samsung build their products.
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Here's the difference between Asus and Samsung/HTC when it comes to updates. Asus is the hands-down winner for getting updates out the door the fastest. But in doing so, it takes at least three subsequent updates to make the initial update complete. Samsung and HTC are painfully slow but (usually) the updates they get out are pretty solid. By that time, because Asus had to update the update multiple times, they arrive at the same place at the same time. Kind of a "tortoise vs. the hare" thing.
BarryH_GEG said:
The h/w business is almost entirely Asian with the exception of Apple, Nokia, and Motorola. We've discussed update priorities, accessory availability, and general attention to existing customer's needs. Only Motorola sells Android devices so it's them vs. the Asians if you want to draw a comparison. I've owned devices from Motorola and most of the Asian manufacturers. Here's my conclusion: they all suck in the three categories we're discussing. Let's add a fourth category; product quality. Here's my quick assessment:
...
So, at the end of the day, there aren't really any stand-out winners. Toshiba, Acer, and Lenovo are bit players based on the low volume of devices they sell so I haven't included them. From general observation they aren't typically known to be any better or worse than the companies I've described. So balancing all four criteria Samsung and HTC, IMHO, are the best of a bad lot (at least in the Android world). Since Samsung seems to be taking over the Android world any way we might not have to worry about comparisons for very much longer.
Thoughts? Personal experiences?
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I agree. I wasn't actually making a 'Western vs Asian' comparison - although rereading what I wrote, it does come across that way. Unfortunately, Apple is kind of the bar for support, quality and attention to detail, even with their recent decline in all three areas.
But my experiences with HP, for example - with their Slate 500 was odd - they had delivery problems, but they really went the extra mile to make up for it. In fact, in my own case, they ended up giving me almost a 30% discount for being late. I didn't even ask for it. They did screw up by choosing n-Trig for the digitiser - but at the time, it seemed a logical choice.
I only have one major experience with Dell - I bought an Axion Windows Mobile PDA that failed. They sent me a box in which to return it at no cost... and a new unit along with the box - also at no cost.
Of course, I have a Transformer Prime - and it's such a mixed bag of hurt and happy. As you note - the device feels right - and they got a lot right about it. It has the best USB driver support of any tablet out there. It provides enough USB power to run a hard drive. The dock is brilliant. And then they mess up something as basic as the GPS, WiFi and Bluetooth. And I think most of us could have dealt with that - if Asus hadn't utterly botched their response to the problem by essentially admitting the problem, then failing to fix it, then claiming the GPS wasn't meant for serious use (commerical GPS? What?) then trying to erase history by removing the feature from the box, then sending everyone a free GPS dongle that was just horribly thought out... and didn't fix the WiFi or BT issues. To add insult to injury - they announce a replacement pair of Transformers with the problem fixed... just two weeks after finally shipping the Prime - which was late. But the Infinity was supposed to be $100 more (which kind of took some of the pain away) - only to finally ship at the exact same price as the Prime.
Oh.. and then just after getting the dongle, the Prime's back camera died and that took a month to get repaired...
That's a lot of bad PR and bad customer support in one ball of hurt.
I bought an HTC Surround - the design made it impossible to remove the back without holding the screen which is on a slider. I sent it back after just two months of ownership because after upgrading to WP7.5 the screen started to act oddly.They claimed that the strain on the screen damaged it and refused to repair or replace it under warranty - demanding $250.
Which brings us back to Apple for a moment - I bought an iPhone 3G and two weeks afters the warranty expired, the 3G radio fried. When I took it back, they refused service - but offered refurb replacement.. also for $250. I asked if I could pay extra and upgrade to the 3Gs, but they refused claiming that their agreement with the cellco prohibited that. You'll pardon me when I get annoyed at people who go on about how great Apple's customer support is and how 'they'll replace or repair broken devices, even if they're a little over warranty...' Riiiight.
So, yes, as much as I hate to say it - at the moment, Samsung is the least evil current choice....
But it's definitely not what I would call a great choice...
TheWerewolf said:
Apple is kind of the bar for support, quality and attention to detail, even with their recent decline in all three areas.
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I totally agree. Part of it is because Apple's a marketing culture. They have always believed that pulling customers in with an excellent experience (h/w, s/w, content, support) and not relegating the control of the experience to others would lead them to loyalty, advocacy, scale, and profit. Looking at their market cap you can't argue with their approach. But their stock's dropped 20% since September while Samsung's been selling record numbers of devices and reeling in record profits. Samsung is no Apple and I don't think they'd ever be able to adapt that culture. But Apple's begun to bore people by sticking to their formula while everyone else is offering bolder more individualized experiences. The aging of Apple's demographic and adoption of Android by younger market segments doesn't bode well for Apple's future. At some point they are going to have to do something interesting and it isn't making the iPhone's display taller. Remember their famous "1984" commercial and the "think different" campaign? They've become what they used to parody.
I'm from Australia and thought much the same particularly with accessory availability. Then I moved to kenya of all places. Here Samsung is the undisputed champion. Nobody has an Iphone. Everyone has Samsung. Accessories are everywhere. All the major Supermarkets have a phone shop inside them and nearly all carry accessories en masse.
It makes an enormous difference to the functionality and usefulness of the product when you can do things like plug a flash drive into it or plug it into your TV. There are also many dedicated Samsung shops around the place. Although for some reason they seem to get the products later than the other retailers.
Samsung can definitely get it right in certain regions. I'm not sure why it struggles in others
Sent from my GT-N8000 using xda app-developers app
Simple, its what the public wants... Or thinks it wants...
Samsung have started to push out adverts here in Oz, especially S3 and SGNote 10.1, now when you rarely ever used to see their phones advertised. Apple was everywhere...
The shops are simply responding to what the customers want... Everyone was buying apple products, so naturally you stock Apple accessories with a few other brand accessories too. But if the lions share of customers want Apple products, why would you stock with only a few Apple accessories and have a whole heap of stuff you can't sell because the perceived market isn't there? That would be, from a sellers point of view, madness...
Until public opinion and buying habits shift noticeably then we are stuck with shops full of Crapple merchandise. When Android becomes a major seller, this is where standardisation is good, then we'll see the stock move to that area instead as profit drops for Apple stock... Unfortunately there's still a perception among retailers that Apple is an easy sell... That and the fact that there are a million different types of android tablet and phones out in the world, and there's only so many things they are prepared to stock while generally all Apple stuff fit or was useable by all apple customers... Until Iphone 5 that is...
The issue as I have always understood it has many sides. First Apple builds their OS for their devices, no one else gets it no other hardware can run it so they only have to optimize and remove features based on the generation of the device (3GS, 4, 4S, etc) and what will and won't work.
Now for Android OEM's they have a couple of challenges. First Google makes the OS and unless you are chosen for a Nexus launch you won't get the new OS in its finished state until after that (don't recall when JB 4.1.1 came out) so they have to wait.
Then the OEM's have to decide which devices can and cannot run the software based on the crippled (carrier specified hardware in the USA) so devices that are less than a year old get screwed over (HTC 2012 and 2011). Then they have to make sure their drivers work since not ever one of their phones (and tablets) uses the same processor or family of processors so we have Texas Instruments, Qualcomm, Samsung, Intel, etc. Then the priority is always given to the latest hardware going out the door since you want your newest hardware to (hopefully) be running the most current OS you had in the pipeline, or in our case JB 4.1.1. Then they start to update for devices they can support.
Now what I see as a huge issue and is the heart of fragmentation is Google's failure to set standards and timelines from both the OEM's and Carriers (USA are the offenders here) to deliver the OS updates. Google should be collaborating with the OEM's to enforce software rollouts. They could also put forth some type of awareness campaign to insure users are in the know and can have an expectation from their carrier and OEM that they will get that update. Oh wait that was the Android Alliance crap announced last year that did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
For me I would be fine with my GN 10.1 and soon GN 2 running some iteration of JellyBean hopefully 4.2 so it has the enhanced security features etc.
BarryH_GEG said:
I totally agree. Part of it is because Apple's a marketing culture. They have always believed that pulling customers in with an excellent experience (h/w, s/w, content, support) and not relegating the control of the experience to others would lead them to loyalty, advocacy, scale, and profit. Looking at their market cap you can't argue with their approach. But their stock's dropped 20% since September while Samsung's been selling record numbers of devices and reeling in record profits. Samsung is no Apple and I don't think they'd ever be able to adapt that culture. But Apple's begun to bore people by sticking to their formula while everyone else is offering bolder more individualized experiences. The aging of Apple's demographic and adoption of Android by younger market segments doesn't bode well for Apple's future. At some point they are going to have to do something interesting and it isn't making the iPhone's display taller. Remember their famous "1984" commercial and the "think different" campaign? They've become what they used to parody.
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Click to collapse
Just gotta say: iCustomers are snobby, horribly wretched, self-absorbed "high designer" wanna-be's. Apple's hw is far from impeccable, the sw is strangling. They're good at glamour (making something appear far better than it actually is). Samsung is unfortunately trying to cut into that crowd, and I think they'd do better to provide a strong counter position: a tablet that lasts for years instead of 6 months. A phone that makes it to the next upgrade cycle (like the gNex).
Early 20th century design principles (built to last decades-- ie heirloom quality) should be a global standard....yes I know I'm pipe dreaming here....
Apple IMO has made it difficult for Samsung to really get behind its own products in the US, but it's jot just apple, mobile device carriers have lobbied our government, fcc, and individual manufacturers to NOT release things like the p6800 or the n8000 because carriers want you to buy a phone AND a tablet with a data plan, not just a tabletnwith telephony hardware... so f***ing sick of our markets being manipulated by the big players, people don't even know that there ARE tablets available with telephony hw... blah...
Sent from my GT-N8013 using XDA Premium HD app
http://mobile.theverge.com/2013/10/3/4800914/htc-q3-2013-unaudited-earnings
The mobile market is fierce, it looks like small companies have no place in it ..
Nokia, motorolla, blackberry ..
Is HTC facing the same grim future ?!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ..
I would hardly call HTC small. Its a failing giant. While the HTC one is a great phone, its probably too late for HTC, just as its too late for Microsoft.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda app-developers app
So sad to see how a good company with a great product can not get back into the race. I thought that HTC with the One will have a small revenue but no. Once again it goes under appreciated
Enviado desde mi HTC One usando Tapatalk 2
http://www.t3.com/news/t3-gadget-awards-2013-htc-one-wins-phone-of-the-year
http://www.htc.com/www/about/newsroom/2013/2013-08-16-HTC-One-named-best-european-advanced-smartphone-2013-2014/
The company has had a streak of terrible products for years .. And this year they redeemed themselves with a GREAT phone .. But perhaps it's already too late ..
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ..
If you haven't notice, all of the companies that only make cellphones haven't been doing too great (Nokia, HTC, Blackberry, Motorola...etc.), it really hard to compete with these large companies (Samsung, LG, Apple, Asus, Sony...etc.) because even if one of their smartphones doesn't do too great they still got their other products from other segments of the market to bring in revenue. Samsung's domination in the market is concerning though. Its never good to have one company dominating, especially for us consumers.
HiddenSanctum said:
If you haven't notice, all of the companies that only make cellphones haven't been doing too great (Nokia, HTC, Blackberry, Motorola...etc.), it really hard to compete with these large companies (Samsung, LG, Apple, Asus, Sony...etc.) because even if one of their smartphones doesn't do too great they still got their other products from other segments of the market to bring in revenue.
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Click to collapse
Its not the end of the world. The HTC One was the first stepping stone down a path of profitability. The HTC One was a success, but with that success you also need to cover the failures (their operating loss would be far greater if the One didn't do well).
With the launch of their next products, and so long as they stick with the positives of the One; improving upon them they will come back to profitability.
Their ship hasn't sailed just yet, Nokia and Blackberry have had abysmal performance for what seems like forever and are only now going the way of the dodo( and Nokia put up one hell of a fight with their devices, just bet on the wrong horse).
While true that many handset makers have other sources of income, they are also potential money pits (TV divisions for nearly all of them are in the toilet). Samsung is essentially the 800lb gorilla. They can design, manufacturer and market devices in a faster manner than the others since they can self produce most of the components as they have all that infrastructure in place. Only way to beat them, is to continually put out a stellar product that does what it should really well and better than the competition. This doesn't just go for HTC, but for any competitor.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4
plznote said:
I would hardly call HTC small. Its a failing giant. While the HTC one is a great phone, its probably too late for HTC, just as its too late for Microsoft.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda app-developers app
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Click to collapse
I can't speak for HTC but Microsoft is going absolutely no where. It's ridiculous to even compare Microsoft's situation to HTC's. With that, frankly, I don't believe HTC is going anywhere either. They are on a better road right now.
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2
I feel like the ad campaign for the One was quite lacking, especially compared to recent Samsung and Nokia commercials. The One is an amazing device, but (for the average consumer) if they haven't heard their friends talking about it, they're not likely to get it.
Sent from my HTC6500LVW using xda app-developers app
This actually makes me kind of sad.
I mean, I really really dont understand why the One is not getting the love by the consumers that it does by all the award titles.
What do the phone sellers do anyway? Shov the S4 up the buyer's throat and make them buy it?
Don't people read reviews on the internet before they head over to the store to buy a device?
The family of my girl is also the typical S4 buyer, where already 3 of them did.
Her brother got the S4 and had craploads of problems with it, he could have bought the S3 for that matter, he said.
I came in with my HTC One and showed all of them my device was superiour in every freakin way.
Four months later, the mother AND the sister are walking around with the S4 too...
I mean, WHAT THE HELL? Dont they listen?
Ah well, as long as HTC does not fall and the support for the device stops, I'm happy with it.
I've had the S2 for two years, and I were pretty satisfied. But every time I pick up my One, I get this "wow" factor.
I find myself just holding and watching the device, being amazed about the build quality, it just has no competitors in those terms.
Things will get worse before they get better in anything!
Beleive me I have given up smoking and my lungs feel worse than when i was smoking lol! They will however get better!
the One is a great basis to start on and if they keep churning out iphone killers like this, they will be going in the right direction eventually but it takes time! :good:
I wonder if things would be different if they added a physical home button.
knightblaze said:
The HTC One was a success
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Sadly, it wasn't. Success is measured in sales and it grossly underperformed HTC's own estimates as measured by them reporting earnings below their own guidance in both Q2 and Q3; the two quarters where the One should have made a difference. They botched the One's launch and have also botched the Mini's launch. Because of production problems with the latter's casing they can only produce 200K per month. So now comes the Max which is selling for more than the N3 in China where HTC appears to be launching it first. It's got a .2" larger display and appears to be huge and heavy in comparison. HTC's finally starting to attack merging markets (which they should have done two years ago) but price is the biggest driver in those markets and HTC's components costs are now higher than their competitors due to their erosion in volume. Analysts' have a target price on their stock of NTD 100 which is shamefully low. When the stock nears that price someone will acquire HTC; most likely one of the Chinese phone makers.
The One was their last chance for a self-driven turnaround and in spite of it being a fabulous phone, HTC's best to-date, it was too little too late.
HTC has never advertised their products on TV enough in the US market, Samsung is on TV all the time. Also their reps get all the best in-store display space and have signs all over the stores. Advertisements sell the products.
Most mobile customers have never even heard of HTC.
Sent from my 4G LTE HTC ONE
jbh00jh said:
HTC has never advertised their products on TV enough in the US market, Samsung is on TV all the time. Also their reps get all the best in-store display space and have signs all over the stores. Advertisements sell the products.
Most mobile customers have never even heard of HTC.
Sent from my 4G LTE HTC ONE
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Click to collapse
The simple fact of the matter is that Samsung outspend them on marketing 10-1, not just this year but last. It is a matter of Samsung having so many irons in the fire. They are so diversified in so many areas that with slack in one area of their businesses they can push in another area. HTC have never had the resources to compete in the area of "mind share". They are singularly focused which is a bad thing. They grew exponentially but when Samsung got serious they simply outspent HTC, coupled with HTC missteps. Heavens, Samsung outspend Apple 3-1.
I really like my HTC One - the best phone I have had by a big margin. However, I do not see how they can arrest the attrition in their business without much bigger money behind them. As it stands, their margins are shrinking drastically. The only real hope for HTC is I believe with a "merger" (polite for takeover) by probably another Asian company. There is no such thing in this business as a "niche" cell phone manufacturer. R&D, marketing etc cost money and without economies of scale it is almost impossible to make good money and have good products.
I have been using HTC phones since VZW started selling them and feel that the One and DNA were the two best phones they ever made and neither ever got the advertising they deserved. I really hate to see them
fold up but I realize they don't have the resources to continue much longer. They can't fill the orders for the One or the One Mini. Ran out of the metal housings.
Sent from my 4G LTE HTC ONE
i read an article about HTC being aproached by microsoft. if that happens im turning oppo for sure
Windows phones are not selling now so that wouldn't help HTC.
They need to be bought out by a company with deep pockets that knows how to advertise.
Sent from my 4G LTE HTC ONE
Enjoy your last HTC device guys. lol
on a side note i was already thinking of switching to Apple iphone. Yeepee. So excited.
Poor production volumn, too high pricing, too late release date are the reasons.
Sent from my HTC One using xda app-developers app
Hi all,
I wanted more information about this specific thing that comes up on google searches about motorola and android wear.
Have any of you noticed that Moto360 and Motorola are still being branded as a "Google company"? What gives?
I'm wary of purchasing the Moto360 cause essentially, Lenovo is taking over debuting this summer. How would warranty then work? Customer service? Replacements? Google has been fantastic for the most part with replacements and warranty, also pricing, so who would then take the lead for the Moto360 in the summer? Through Lenovo or Google?
Thanks for all your comments!
whoever is in charge of this, im going for it!
Rafik.1 said:
Hi all,
I wanted more information about this specific thing that comes up on google searches about motorola and android wear.
Have any of you noticed that Moto360 and Motorola are still being branded as a "Google company"? What gives?
I'm wary of purchasing the Moto360 cause essentially, Lenovo is taking over debuting this summer. How would warranty then work? Customer service? Replacements? Google has been fantastic for the most part with replacements and warranty, also pricing, so who would then take the lead for the Moto360 in the summer? Through Lenovo or Google?
Thanks for all your comments!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this branding for the moto360 will have been in the works for months, so it's easy to think that the Google Company thing is just there due to being done before the sale to Lenovo. AFAIK the only thing google kept from Motorola was the advanced stuff for project tango and some patents.
VOS said:
this branding for the moto360 will have been in the works for months, so it's easy to think that the Google Company thing is just there due to being done before the sale to Lenovo. AFAIK the only thing google kept from Motorola was the advanced stuff for project tango and some patents.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For sure, but post-Google, doesn't it worry you? Who will fulfil the replacements, warranties, etc.? Google will only keep doing it for so long. The after-service, customer service, etc. I would imagine Google and Lenovo incorporated in the Motorola resale contract the exact responsibilities, but it would seriously blow if Lenovo takes over Moto360's aftermath! Unless Google keeps the smart-watch department, but I highly doubt Lenovo would accept a rebuy condition without one of the fastest and promising area.....
Lenovo did buy Motorola, but the actual transfer won't happen until 2 years after the agreement. Even if Google launched the product through Motorola, Motorola is still technically the manufacturer, so I'm pretty sure when you want to get something replaced, it's Motorola, whether it's Google or Lenovo.
kendiep said:
Lenovo did buy Motorola, but the actual transfer won't happen until 2 years after the agreement. Even if Google launched the product through Motorola, Motorola is still technically the manufacturer, so I'm pretty sure when you want to get something replaced, it's Motorola, whether it's Google or Lenovo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That makes sense, but I have been told by many who own Motorola devices, that the post-purchase servicing is fulfilled by Google at this stage. Apparently a lot of their replacement units came from Google packaged shipments as opposed to Motorola packaged goods. Could that have been just a temporary thing or not? Essentially, in the supply-chain industry, whatever that is cheaper will ultimately succeed in the manufacturing process... so don't hold your breathe for Motorola to keep its high standards when switching over to Lenovo...
Moto360
Even if it is Lenovo making the Moto360, wouldn't they essentially be using the same parts that Google/Motorola were planning on using since this has been in the making prior to the buyout?
Google is more exclusive than lenovo i think..
not google, i think its motorola, but when lenovo buy motorola, it will belong to lenovo. Remeber, IBM thinkpad, its now different before
Rafik.1 said:
For sure, but post-Google, doesn't it worry you? Who will fulfil the replacements, warranties, etc.? Google will only keep doing it for so long. The after-service, customer service, etc. I would imagine Google and Lenovo incorporated in the Motorola resale contract the exact responsibilities, but it would seriously blow if Lenovo takes over Moto360's aftermath! Unless Google keeps the smart-watch department, but I highly doubt Lenovo would accept a rebuy condition without one of the fastest and promising area.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Google will continue to do it until there's a lack of user participation and backlash
i think it's lenovo, because google is independent company :laugh:
Google is better than Lenovo
Google is better than Lenovo
Let's hope google does continue otherwise we could be stuck with a model of moto360 not as high in quality. Essentially lenovo would own Motorola and determine quality etc.. Remember, money talks, bull**** walks. So I won't be surprised if Motorola is forced to make lesser quality watches once lenovo takes over
Sent from my SM-N900W8 using xda app-developers app
Google is more exclusive than lenovo
Google is more exclusive than lenovo
Google will be better than lenovo
It was R&D and preprod under Google, carried out by Moto, not Lenovo. They operate independently.
i like intel inside smartwatches
maybe if lenovo make it then use intel
RIPng said:
It was R&D and preprod under Google, carried out by Moto, not Lenovo. They operate independently.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Makes sense but the point is that ultimately, if lenovo chooses to cut back on moto funding, we could end up with cheap plastic materials *ahem samsung* as opposed to premium materials like Google and apple are used to using
Sent from my SM-N900W8 using xda app-developers app
Im just going to clear this up because it doesnt look like it has been ITT. Google only sold part of Motorola. They kept the parts that are currently developing projects (i.e. Project ARA, Moto360, etc.)
Probably from Google. These things take years, and Android wear was shown off only weeks after the acquisition was public.
The end of Motorola has been announced.
Will the Nexus 6 become a prized possession, reminiscent of Motorola's accomplishments? Or maybe it will be forgotten, collecting dust alongside other phones that fell victim to the expansive mobile industry.
For me personally, the Nexus 6 is perhaps the best Motorola phone made. Call it nostalgia, but I will always love my n6. Goodbye Motorola, and thanks for the memories.
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
Didnt know about the announcement but me an motorola go way back. People didn't even know what smartphone was back in the day (aside from tech people of course) and i was rocking Motorola mp200 windows smartphone edition, one of the best phones made. This is a sad day.
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
So all products of Motorola are going away? It says they are still keeping the branding which makes it sound like they are removing the official name but still making the products under Levano
Lenovo isn't really ending Motorola Mobility. They are rebranding some phones like the Moto X and the budget devices will become Lenovo vibe phones.
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
Treasure.
I bought this stuff recently.
And I'm sure it's worth for 200$ disregarding its low quality.
Not worried about it. They are still keeping the Moto name though.
What`s in a name?
I don't see anything special with Nexus 6 except motorola's collabration with Google. Otherwise It is just a beefed up moto x. There were devices made and engineered by motorola once in a time and that era ended with the Droid Razr.
dryfy said:
The end of Motorola has been announced.
Will the Nexus 6 become a prized possession, reminiscent of Motorola's accomplishments? Or maybe it will be forgotten, collecting dust alongside other phones that fell victim to the expansive mobile industry.
For me personally, the Nexus 6 is perhaps the best Motorola phone made. Call it nostalgia, but I will always love my n6. Goodbye Motorola, and thanks for the memories.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Either you misread the article you read on it, or the author of that article misread the press release from Lenovo.
What is happening, is they are redefining the Motorola BRAND as exclusively premium, and merging all of the non-premium offerings in with Lenovo.
In other words, Lenovo = low/mid tier products, Motorola = high.
This move is to prevent product duplication. There is no point in having a high-end motorola competing with a high-end lenovo and a low end motorola competing with a low end lenovo.
Nexus 6 is a premium device, and a similar product would still carry the Motorola branding. So for us, nothing to see here.
TREASURE
Nexus 6 on sale for $249-$299
AMAZON.com running brand new 32G and 64G Nexus 6 sale again, until February 1st.
doitright said:
Either you misread the article you read on it, or the author of that article misread the press release from Lenovo.
What is happening, is they are redefining the Motorola BRAND as exclusively premium, and merging all of the non-premium offerings in with Lenovo.
In other words, Lenovo = low/mid tier products, Motorola = high.
This move is to prevent product duplication. There is no point in having a high-end motorola competing with a high-end lenovo and a low end motorola competing with a low end lenovo.
Nexus 6 is a premium device, and a similar product would still carry the Motorola branding. So for us, nothing to see here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The thing that sucks is that they actually aren't using the full name "Motorola". The products will be just "MOTO" and they're keeping the "M" logo. You're right about the plan though:
Lenovo, which bought Motorola Mobility from Google in 2014, is unifying its two phone businesses under the Lenovo name. It's going to use Motorola's Moto brand for high-end products and its homegrown Vibe brand for budget devices. The Motorola name isn't completely gone. It will live on from a corporate perspective as a division of the Chinese consumer-electronics giant, said Motorola Chief Operating Officer Rick Osterloh... his business group will soon take over all mobile operations at Lenovo. This means bringing Vibe phones into markets where Moto exists, and vice versa.
In markets where the Lenovo name is strong, the company intends to introduce the Moto line as an upscale product.
- CNet
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Click to collapse
Dusty Rhodes said:
The thing that sucks is that they actually aren't using the full name "Motorola". The products will be just "MOTO" and they're keeping the "M" logo. You're right about the plan though:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wasn't aware of that aspect of it.
Well, what else could you expect from China?
Treasure
Trash for sure. The Motorola Nexus 6 is the biggest piece of junk garbage phone I've ever owned. I take my phone out to take a photo of something and I'm waiting for the camera app to open so I can take the photo, my wife takes her iPhone out and takes the photo before my Nexus 6 will respond. I'm on my 2nd Nexus 6 and about to ask for another RMA because of the garbled/distorted notification sounds issue that so many others have. What really pisses me off is that I used to enjoy flashing custom ROMs and all that fun stuff - now I stick to only the Google images or Android N previews and I'm afraid to root the phone because it's so damned buggy. This phone undoubtedly has been the worst android phone experience I've had. I used to love flashing the custom ROMs and having all the new features - now I just want a phone that I can reliably use. I can't wait for my 2 year contract with Project Fi to end so I can get a different phone.
Treasure...love my N6.
Treasure. Though it was a toss-up between the Nexus 6 and the Moto X Pure 2015, the Nexus won out. My roommate got the Pure.
Treasure of course .
Definitely treasure. I've had my N6 since December and couldn't be happier. Huge screen, good build quality, wireless and turbo charging, excellent front speakers, great battery life (6+ hrs SOT) good enough camera and lots of custom ROMs.
Treasure of course. I have been using it for 3 months and it's the best Android I have ever owned. And i have not experienced any lags or hiccups whatsoever. Everything is smooth, battery timing is great. Couldn't be happier.