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Nexus for developers is completely sold out - article

The Nexus ONe rides again - It's still a Star Here's the article
A flop with consumers, sold-out Nexus One scores with developers.
Google tried — and ultimately failed — to turn the U.S. wireless market upside-down by selling its supercharged Nexus One Android phone online, with minimal help from the big carriers. But now, months after shuttering its online storefront for the phone, the Nexus One is a sudden, improbable hit.
Who’s buying the Nexus One, you ask? Android developers, that’s who — and apparently, they’re so eager to get their mitts on the eight-month-old handset that Google supply of Nexus One phones for developers is completely sold out.
So says a post on Google’s Android developers blog (via TechCrunch), with Google’s Tim Bray writing that Google "blew through the (substantial) initial inventory in almost no time," adding that Nexus One manufacturer HTC is busy trying to crank out more of the suddenly gotta-have handsets.
Google launched the Nexus One — described in hushed tones as the "Google Phone" in the days and weeks before its official unveiling — way back in January, and the search behemoth caused quite a stir by offering the Android 2.1-powered handset only on the Web, through Google’s own Nexus One online storefront.
Why all the fuss? Because usually it’s the big carriers (think AT&T, Sprint, T-Mobile, and Verizon Wireless) who do the heavy lifting in terms of marketing and selling cell phones, both online and (mainly) in brick-and-mortar stores. While it got a little help from T-Mobile, which subsidized the Nexus One for use on its network, Google’s decision to go it virtually alone with the Nexus One — with practically no marketing help from a carrier—was seen as a potentially game-changing move.
Unfortunately, it turned out to be anything but. Sales of the Nexus One never took off, and an unprepared Google — which, before the Nexus One launch, had little need for a bank of customer-service reps — found itself quickly overwhelmed by customers complaining about iffy 3G reception (which ultimately led to a patch) and other assorted glitches.
Consumers were also underwhelmed by the less-than-revolutionary $179 two-year contract price and $529 price tag for an unlocked Nexus One, while existing T-Mobile users were turned off by the $379 upgrade price for the phone (which was eventually cut by $100). Last May, Google finally waved the white flag, announcing that it would close down its online Nexus One store.
So yes, Google learned the hard way that nothing beats a "full-court press by a big national carrier" (as I wrote back in May) when it comes to selling a smartphone. But here’s the thing: The well-reviewed Nexus One itself wasn’t a bad phone — indeed, it was (and still is) a pretty good one, complete with a 3.7-inch AMOLED screen, a 1GHz "Snapdragon" processor, 512MB of RAM, and a 5-megapixel camera with a flash.
The Nexus One also happened to be among the first handsets to get an update to Android 2.2 — a fact that clearly wasn’t lost on enthusiastic Android developers, who’ve been able to buy the unlocked Nexus One — in droves, apparently — direct from Google for a few weeks now.
In any case, Google is now in the strange but surely satisfying position of "working hard on re-stocking" (as Google’s TIm Bray puts it) a smartphone that looked all but dead just a few months ago. Strange, but true.
Google’s Android developers blog: A Little Too Popular (via TechCrunch)
— Ben Patterson is a technology writer for Yahoo! News.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ytech_gadg/20100820/tc_ytech_gadg/ytech_gadg_tc3447

guess that means that the nexus was more popular then Google thought

Sounds like the making of a Nexus 2 could become possible. Anybody else agree?

"The Nexus One also happened to be among the first handsets to get an update to Android 2.2" - REALLY? It was THE first phone. And it wasn't a "pretty good" phone, it was the best on the market for several months after launch. I think this guy has some facts he needs to get straightened out.

I really think the nexus sold more units over time then people think, and is in demand more than people think. This kinda shows that. Google jumped the gun by closing their online store. Also they mis calculated by not making the nexus into a whole line of Google phones.

The Nexus would have taken off at the time, but Google saw fit to market their well known search engine at superbowls and such instead of a phone that no one heard of.

As much as Google may have fumbled the marketing of the Nexus One when it was sold publicly - all that aside...
The article makes a lot of noise without revealing any numbers which are key to really verifying the conclusion that the phone is becoming more popular as a developer phone.
Yes, Google sold out the developer allotment - that's great. But, they also sold out a few allotments of their public phone back in the day - most notably the last allotment they ordered in July which sold out a week or two earlier than expected. That fact alone doesn't mean anything without knowing how big the allotments were. For all the article states, the allotment for the developers could have been very tiny under the theory that a smaller audience produces less sales and most developers would probably have already ordered one when they were sold publicly anyway.
All we know is that someone was pleasantly surprised by the demand for it from the developer store and that the initial allotment - chosen specifically for that sales purpose - was underestimated.
But, we don't know if that represents higher overall demand (or even relative demand) compared to the public allotments. And we don't know if either demand represented enough market force for the company to have continued to pursue its business plan of being in the open market for handsets.
It also rankles me when they make supporting comments like "now, months after shuttering its online storefront". Sorry, it was less than 1 month since they shut down the storefront when they sold out the developer phones. And don't ignore that allotments were selling out during the consumer sales when you try to make it sound like the developer sell-out was unprecedented. The fact that it was almost 1 month after the shut down the store (not months like the author states) was *due* to a consumer sellout. Otherwise it would have only been a couple of weeks since the store front was scheduled to shut down.

I think the point is that with all these high end android phones out now, the fact that ANYONE is choosing the nexus still tells the story. Specific numbers don't really matter. This is especially true since all these other phones are subsidized on contract, and the nexus is full price, and still selling at all 7 months later.

RogerPodacter said:
I think the point is that with all these high end android phones out now, the fact that ANYONE is choosing the nexus still tells the story. Specific numbers don't really matter. This is especially true since all these other phones are subsidized on contract, and the nexus is full price, and still selling at all 7 months later.
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Hi Roger,
That is a good point, but it isn't the tone of the article. "A flop with consumers" - "the Nexus One is [now] a sudden, improbable hit" - "[developers buying] in droves, apparently".
A flop? Really?
Sudden hit? Really that sudden?
Improbable hit? Really?
It may have had marketing problems, but it was never a flop. The new MS phones being canceled a week after they were released - that's a flop for you. And there is nothing sudden about a sellout a couple of weeks after another sellout. Nor is there anything improbably about that, or anything that spells "hit". And how big is a "drove". Apparently it is so specific that they suddenly realize the complete lack of facts in their piece and have to tack on the word "apparently". So, the phone is now selling to developers in a manner that one can only suppose is describable by a term that is as vague as "droves". Cute.
I'm glad that it is still selling and I'm glad that it sold out its developer allotment, but this article is exaggerating the impact of those facts with hyperbole based on both lack of knowledge (believing that the phone has been off sale for "months", etc.) and assumption of facts not presented.
It would be one thing if they had said what you said "The developer allotment sold out which shows that there is still positive demand for a device that is this old, but without numbers we can't tell if the demand is actually stronger in its developer form than it was as a consumer offering". But no, they basically paint its consumer history as if they couldn't be given away and then, without any numbers, paint the developer demand as being so much stronger than anything anyone could have expected that Google was stupid to have canceled it.
Sorry, no, the sell-out indicates that someone, somewhere, was wrong about a prediction that was specific to developer sales and has no bearing whatsoever about how the demand now compares to the demand as a consumer phone or to any other currently shipping phones.
As far as longevity - the G1 was still being sold as recently as about a month ago. Technology alone doesn't really dictate sales, but it is an important driver.

Now that Google knows there is an appetite for a "super dev phone", might they also reconsider their decision to permanently shelve the UMTS 850/1900 version?

I hate articles like this. The facts are wrong which makes the whole article irrelevant. I think the problem with the Nexus One is that only the geeks here really heard about it. There was no advertising done what-so-ever.
Although I am surprised to see more and more people recognize it as "Is that the Google phone?".
I'm glad I bought mine when I did because they shut down the store. Now I love it even more knowing that every joe-smoe can't go out and pick one up. I like knowing that I have one of the best Android phones and "you" can't buy one anymore.
I think we'll see a huge demand for the N1 when Gingerbread comes out. I think it will take a lot of time and a lot more tweaking to get 3.0 on a 2.x device then it was 2.2 on top of 2.1. I'm just happy that Google is developing it specifically for my phone and I don't have to worry about having a buggy port.

Samsung Galaxy tab 10.1 with 4g up for preorder at $550. Motorola let us down big...

Title says it all. Motorola went the way of exploitation and took the cheap route of superficial marketing to rush a half baked device to market at the expense of it's customers. Trying to put the final touchs on their Frankenstein creation people received their xooms unsealed and in essence unguarded. People have reported sending in their malfunctioning devices only to met with refusal because of "water damage" even though the seal on the purchase was already removed when they received it. Motorola reps at CES repeatedly said that the xoom would be upgradable to 4g soon after release, some saying 40 days, some saying 2 months, some saying whatever - all being false. SD card support has never been honored even though other tablets like the transformer with fundamentally identical specs have delivered since day one. Now Samsung is offering the same thing in thinner form factor for almost 300 dollars less - and we can only assume it will actually be WORKING also.
And if all this isn't bad enough we see that while Motorola had no problem taking large sums of money on false pretenses they simultaneously had no shame about neglecting original xoom owners and developing a second xoom in the meantime that is nothing more than a working version of what they promised the first would be. Pathetic.
They are striving hard for recognition as the biggest piece of **** company in the android game and judging by the recent reports of their stock value, it seems they are successful at something. Seriously it is not rocket science. False advertising, ****ty support (or none at all), zero accountability, no remorse or attempt for compensation or consumer confidence, equals a ****ty company that loses value in a competative market. Someone over there needs to take their heads out of their ass. A child can understand this.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App

Oh my god just $550 and no contract? I wouldn't mind prepaid 4g data from verzion....

Europe has SD card support, and since it's not a GED that makes me suspect that the problem with SD card support is more of a Google issue than a Moto issue.

VaKo said:
Europe has SD card support
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Not yet, Motorola posted at Facebook that they will roll out the 3.1 Update with SD soon for EU... But what is soon? 2 weeks? 2 months?
Nobody received a update yet...

They shafted a lot of people. I have the WiFi only model so I don't apply. That sucks for everyone else though.

Does it suck? Yes. Motorola sold the Xoom on promises. But nowhere on the Box or on any advertisements did they say when LTE would be given out and nowhere in the advertisements was the SD card slot mentioned. So although you feel like you have been taken advantage of, you need to take some personal responsibility. You purchased an unfinished product willingly.
My response is that I will no longer buy Motorola products.

First this is not a personal attack on anyone, but I have to say that ALL of us bought this device well knowing that some of the features were still in developement. I have not seen anyone present actual evidence of Motorola committing to any specific dates as to when these features would be added. If you have evidence please share as I am sure there are many people who would like to see it.
Moto was first out of the gate with a HC tablet, if they had waited until everything was done it still would not have shipped and the same people who are blasting Motorola now for unsupported features would be the same people screaming that they were late to market. The US Xoom is a GED device, so the SD support is fully in Google's hands. As for the LTE upgrade, I have a WiFi Xoom so I really can not comment any more than what I have already said. In this type of market there really are not too many options.
1) Ship something with less features to be first or earlier to the market
2) Wait for the features to be fully supported and be late to the market
3) Ship the unit with full hardware support but lacking full software support so that features can be enabled in future SW updates.
It comes down to which one of these options satisfies the most people. I personally think they made the right choice, but everyone is entitled to thier own opinion. Now do I believe Moto needs to reduce the pricing to compete, of course. But I am sure that as soon as they reduce prices, people will be *****ing about that too. There is ALWAYS a premium for buying the first of anything, especially in the technology market.
Me personally, I like my Xoom and after reading reviews of the Samsung given the option to choose I would stick with the Xoom. Is it heavier - absolutely, is it more robust/durable - absolutely, is it going to get Adroid updates faster and for a longer period of time - most likely.
Regarding the point of them already designing a next generation Xoom, that is what companies have to do to stay competitive. There will ALWAYS be something newer/better/cheaper on the horizon and I would be more pissed off if they were not working on the next best thing.
Does it suck that something we all just spent good $$$ on a few months ago is not the "best" thing anymore, sure but that is how it goes.

I dont feel bad about my purchase...the cost of being an early adopter...also i dont care what anyone says...that Tab feels cheap as hell. My xoom feels bullet proof. Apple was able to make a thin device feel solid but like their phones, cameras, and big screen TV...the tab feels very plasticy and cheap. Just my opinion. I still love my xoom despite all this other stuff that comes out.

Kippui said:
Oh my god just $550 and no contract? I wouldn't mind prepaid 4g data from verzion....
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Where are you seeing that. I see $529 with a contract.

nubsors said:
Does it suck? Yes. Motorola sold the Xoom on promises. But nowhere on the Box or on any advertisements did they say when LTE would be given out and nowhere in the advertisements was the SD card slot mentioned. So although you feel like you have been taken advantage of, you need to take some personal responsibility. You purchased an unfinished product willingly.
My response is that I will no longer buy Motorola products.
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I am aware that they didn't commit to a "specific" date. Although if you followed CES where the xoom was debuted you will have heard Motorola reps offering all sorts of unofficial etas (all of which have come and gone). Regardless, misleading and dishonest advertising doesn't depend on them specifying a date. While they have said things like "by the end of Q2" (which was yesterday for anyone following) the practical truth is that when you offer a service in a fast moving market where a devices life cycle of relevance can be as little as 6 to 8 months (hence the new xoom 4g already on the horizon and quadcore chips becoming standard before the end of the year) you only have a certain window of oppertunity to deliver in a manner that represents the market you are trying to succeed in. To turn around and crawl under technicalities like, "we never promised you a certain date" becomes just a bold affirmation of ones own incompetence and utter lack of comprehension of the role that consumer trust plays in the role of your business. Look at apple. They have the most loyal fanbase, so much so that people buy their **** on principle without thinking, and while they shaft them on price, specs, and basic functionalities - they don't leave them out to dry when it comes to support.
As far as the SD card goes, go to Motorola's site. It is one of the specs advertised.
Someone can try to portray this as my own personal unjustified gripe but objectivity speaking these are business practices that will tarnish anyone's reputation and make people hesitant to buy their ****. I don't control that, it stems from common sense.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App

The SD card issue on the US GED is a Google issue, everyone else is adding it aside from Google, so they need to answer this question. I don't think it's a huge issue though, it has 32GB of storage and I'm happy with that.
As for all the other complaints, yes, Moto are lying ****s, this isn't even a matter of debate anymore. But I still like my Xoom and I'm glad I bought it.

bmhanson said:
Where are you seeing that. I see $529 with a contract.
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Oh....
Sorry lol

Why on earth have Samsung made such a mess of marketing the P6800?

I have a P6800.
I think it's a great tablet with many technical innovations.
I accept it wouldn't be to everyones taste.
I've worked in electronics in both retail, wholesale and manufacturing for a fair proportion of my working life.
Why haven't Samsung yet worked out that announcing a new product, then making the market wait months and months for shipment, while continuing to announce new products (which also won't ship for months) is undermining their impact in the market.
The new product announcements deter individuals and more importantly retailers (bricks and mortar not virtual) from carrying the product as they'll be concerned they'll either get left with stock or get hit with price drops.
Grey importing from the Far East destroys retailers willingness to carry a product with a RRP of £350 when it's available from Far East drop shippers for around 2/3 of that price.
This scattergun approach to product launches and lack of discipline in global pricing is seriously undermining Samsungs long term success in my opinion, someone somewhere high up in the organisation should really step back and make some hard decisions on strategy.
With so many products to support it takes a disproportionate amount of time to release updates (as we've seen with the P6800 6 months after ICS release) and the customer experience is therefore diminished.
Fanboiism only goes so far, a coherent, global, long term, production and marketing plan is what works in the market.

They also need to work on their pricing - I'd have bought one of these 7.7's long ago if they'd been realistically priced. As they are (in the UK) they're simply overpriced.
In general the Galaxy Tab range is just way too expensive - I know 2 people who bought iPad 3's instead as they were the same price as the 16GB Galaxy Tab 10.1!

You have to differentiate between lower price and diifferent price.
Personally I think the 7.7 is worth every penny and if Samsung did better marketing they could show the differences between the 7.7 and the IPad 3.
Instead they now have 5 different product ranges or 6 if you include the Galaxy Note....
7 Plus
7.7
8.9
10.1
7 v2
These, in theory, come in various memory sizes although I've never seen any memory size of more then 16gb on the 8.9, 7.7 or 7 plus ranges.
The average time between announcement and shipping seems to be 5 months and even today in the UK you cannot buy a UK sourced 7.7 3G as far as I know and it's 8 months since it was announced.
There are rumours of a 11.6? unit coming.
While I understand the desire to have a comprehensive range the reality is that Samsung are spreading themselves too thin and instead of launching 1 product in say 3 sizes they see each version as a totally new product. This means they themselves are confused about the offerings, this is reflected in the lack of marketing 'punch' in their message.
My suggestions for what could help.
1. Stop any new tablet announcements for 12 months.
2. Simplify the product range for an announcement in 12 months.
The range should be....
11.6 with no bezel (so same physical form factor as the current 10.1)
8.9 with no bezel
7 or 7.7
All should have Super Amoled Plus (or anything newer and better that's arrived by then)
The range should be technically identical except for the screen size (the specifics of the offerings would need to be worked out nearer to the launch)
Ship globally the full range within 4 weeks of the announcement, concentrate your marketing spend to this one 'product' in three size 'flavours'.
Sit back and reap the rewards.

In what regards consumer electronics, Samsung is being crushed by its own growth, "ungovernance" and lack of focus.
I've noticed this has been going on since, at least, 2007 year of my first interaction with them on account of the BDP-5000 combo player.
Like many Asian corporate giants, seen from the outside, Samsung seems like either (1) they don't have anyone at the helm or (2) they have too many people allowed at that very same helm, just giving the odd directional input, as they cluelessly seem fit.
When I see a photo of Gee-Sung Choi I don't think "Hey!...So that's the man behind all those incredible devices...".
Instead I think "...So, this is the guy behind that ugly mess..."
GK
(PS: Mine was 479 EUR at Dixons, in the Netherlands...excellent, excellent price)

You can buy a UK sourced 3G 7.7 from Clove Technology. Product code is GT-P6800LSAXEU. Price is an eye watering GBP478.80. When it gets to GBP350 I might get one. Current price is just too expensive for something which will be superseded in 6 months.

Yep!!
I am no marketing expert but even I can say that Samsung are continually missing out on opportunities for more sales, and more to the point getting themselves known. This isn't just the case with the P6800.
I know marketing/advertising is expensive but the rewards they would reap would be huge. Especially with the new budget Galaxy Tab 2 7.0 tablet, there are many people out there hungry for a capable tablet, but don't they want to shell out £500 for a tablet. An advertising campaign would make all the difference.
Look at the Galaxy Note! It took them 3 months to start TV adverts for it here. They really haven't a clue about marketing. Instead they are churning out products left, right and centre. Trying to cover all bases, it's an insane tactic.
The 7.7 is definitely over priced here, over £400 for the Wifi only model is just nuts. I don't own a 7.7 just yet, but I am very tempted. However, I don't have too much faith that ICS is actually coming to the 7.7.. also it's not been a very popular device for developers to play with, we can blame the price tag for that. It kinda feels like that even Samsung aren't really that interested in the 7.7. It's availability in general says something to me... then again Samsung are just a strange company.
Samsung have this frantic idea to push as many new products out the door, their business model is so wrong. They are shooting themselves in the foot.

jeremyr62 said:
You can buy a UK sourced 3G 7.7 from Clove Technology. Product code is GT-P6800LSAXEU. Price is an eye watering GBP478.80. When it gets to GBP350 I might get one. Current price is just too expensive for something which will be superseded in 6 months.
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Yea, Expansys have them too (SAMP680016GBS) at GBP479.99. I agree that GBP350's more realistic, but I'm not holding my breath.
I've just checked and you can pick them up on Amazon.com for USD597 (GBP371). Yet again we pay through the nose in Europe - Amazon.de's selling them for EUR742 (GBP591) and Amazon.fr for EUR683 (GBP544)!

Samsung probably doesn't go by the same metrics and ideas as you. People here often refer to the 7.7 as Samsung's "flagship tablet". It's really not. It's certainly their nicest one, and one that probably is the most difficult to manufacture.
The 10.1 is their "flagship" since that's what's selling and that's the direct competitor to the iPad (or least it used to be). The 7.7 is more of a niche edge thing.

burhanistan said:
Samsung probably doesn't go by the same metrics and ideas as you. People here often refer to the 7.7 as Samsung's "flagship tablet". It's really not. It's certainly their nicest one, and one that probably is the most difficult to manufacture.
The 10.1 is their "flagship" since that's what's selling and that's the direct competitor to the iPad (or least it used to be). The 7.7 is more of a niche edge thing.
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The 10.1 isn't selling in the UK or quite a few other parts of Europe.
My point isn't about this tablet or that tablet, it's about Samsungs lack of overall strategy.
Simplistically if you had 1 product in 3 size 'flavours' it allows you to price differentiate accordingly. Especially as the Internet means that your pricing strategy has to be global.
The current RRP pricing in the UK could work (and I know some people here will say it never would) if they concentrated their marketing spend and targetted it effectively, the reality is they're just spread way too thin with too many products and no clear strategy.

55brianb said:
I've just checked and you can pick them up on Amazon.com for USD597 (GBP371). Yet again we pay through the nose in Europe - Amazon.de's selling them for EUR742 (GBP591) and Amazon.fr for EUR683 (GBP544)!
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Here (austria) you can get the 7.7 for 499EUR. Shipping in EU is around 10EUR. Just wanted to state that because it seems to me that everybody thinks you can't get this device at a proper price. (german price is very overwhelmed because the tab 7.7 isn't officially available in germany!)
By the way I don't think the price is a huge problem as you get the device for "free" when signing a contract for mobile internet, and without that the tab is pretty much useless anyways.
Back to topic: I totally agree samsung is carrying a very strange marketing strategy. Also I think the idea of "unifying" the tabs, so that screen size is only technical difference and launch all of them with one big marketing campaign would be alot better and more efficient than just rolling out device after device after device. I can imagine some people don't want to buy a tab because you can be sure 2 or 3 months later the next, better model is announced. I think better support (ie releasing updates in time and for a longer period of time) would be much better than having slightly better hardware every few weeks.

OP actually listed marketing strategies of Apple. Unfortunately Samsung could not, and probably never will follow the very same strategies.
Samsung actually follows the best marketing strategy, only that strategy focuses on profit, rather than customers, like Apple does. That's why you think Samsung made a mess in marketing, from customer's perspective.
Also, price segmentation, wide variety of product line and hidden product roadmap is exactly most vendors do for decades, for profit maximization. Not that I believe these are the best strategies, Apple for one has proven them wrong.
In short Apple's marketing strategies must accompany with market-dominating products, which is a very risky marketing model for most corporations. (I think I should stop at this point, I found discussing marketing in tech forum boring indeed )

九千. said:
OP actually listed marketing strategies of Apple. Unfortunately Samsung could not, and probably never will follow the very same strategies.
Samsung actually follows the best marketing strategy, only that strategy focuses on profit, rather than customers, like Apple does. That's why you think Samsung made a mess in marketing, from customer's perspective.
Also, price segmentation, wide variety of product line and hidden product roadmap is exactly most vendors do for decades, for profit maximization. Not that I believe these are the best strategies, Apple for one has proven them wrong.
In short Apple's marketing strategies must accompany with market-dominating products, which is a very risky marketing model for most corporations. (I think I should stop at this point, I found discussing marketing in tech forum boring indeed )
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Errr...
I didn't quote use the marketing strategies of Apple. Apple have a very different value proposition which is based upon diverse revenue streams.
1. While they make good money on their hardware their tight control of their App and ITunes stores generate them substantial and very profitable secondary revenue streams.
2. They are single product focused (the continued sale of the IPad2 is to run down production lines in my opinion). They only have single products in a segment, albeit with different memory sizes.
3. While they present themselves as a technical leader they are in my opinion a very good marketing operation who package up others technical breakthroughs.
I met Steve Jobs back in about 1979, he was pretty good at pinching other peoples ideas even then.
I disagree with your assessment that Samsung focus on profit, frankly the marketing of their tablets in Europe has been non existent. Unless you're selling a product you're not making profits and allowing such large pricing differentials in markets just encourages grey imports and undermines your message to your stockists.
I know of at least two major UK retailers who carry Samsung tablets but don't carry the full range and don't have presentation units on display, when I asked them why they said "...because we don't know where their focus is...." (my paraphrase).

I'm glad that you are interesting in this boring topic.
pinsb said:
Errr...
I didn't quote use the marketing strategies of Apple. Apple have a very different value proposition which is based upon diverse revenue streams.
1. While they make good money on their hardware their tight control of their App and ITunes stores generate them substantial and very profitable secondary revenue streams.
2. They are single product focused (the continued sale of the IPad2 is to run down production lines in my opinion). They only have single products in a segment, albeit with different memory sizes.
3. While they present themselves as a technical leader they are in my opinion a very good marketing operation who package up others technical breakthroughs.
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Actually I think we were not discussing above three point before. Anyway, I agree with you except point 3, I have problems with Apple in their motives on crushing technological advancement, least honoring them with the title of technical leader.
pinsb said:
I met Steve Jobs back in about 1979, he was pretty good at pinching other peoples ideas even then.
I disagree with your assessment that Samsung focus on profit, frankly the marketing of their tablets in Europe has been non existent. Unless you're selling a product you're not making profits and allowing such large pricing differentials in markets just encourages grey imports and undermines your message to your stockists.
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It depends on regions. As liberal as they seem to be, many EU countries have strict imports restrictions that effectively repel foreign imports. I can't speak for Samsung, but in our case our electronics products have to go through complicated regulations on standards and safety measures, before being allowed to import, with applied period and quantity constraints. Also, EU has their own patent office, on the top of USPTO, which in effect erecting a huge import barrier to all import goods, especially electronics.
Given such a huge barrier, it makes sense for a large corporation cutting back budget in marketing. For example, delay in launching Galaxy Tabs in Germany as a result of on-going litigation causing them to lose the time-to-market, and you wouldn't be surprise when they retreat all the marketing campagin planned.
pinsb said:
I know of at least two major UK retailers who carry Samsung tablets but don't carry the full range and don't have presentation units on display, when I asked them why they said "...because we don't know where their focus is...." (my paraphrase).
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UK has a different story. I cannot detail that without offending British Government or people supporting them. So please let me pass on that. As to the reason why Samsung widely expands the product lines in Galaxy Tab, I think I have explained before. This is not about market-focusing, it is about market-segmentation.
I wish my above points reaching you.

I think Samsung have got the right strategy by offering a choice of different tablet sizes in the same way that laptops are offered in different sizes. A lot of the big laptop players such as Toshiba are now entering the market and offering a choice of 3 or 4 tablet sizes. People have become brain washed by the Apple one size fits all approach.

Crazy prices, and here is me, getting the tab for 499 Swiss Francs

Having seen the Sammie press release about 9m pre sales of SG3 handsets I now understand.......
Sammie see their route to market (In Europe at least) as via Carriers, they aren't really that interested in marketing products except as an adjunct to assist the Carriers sell handsets. As tablets are much more often a stand alone sale it's had no attention.
While I still think the P6800 is a great product I've come to the realisation that Sammie will never give it the attention it should have got, as a result sales will never reach their potential and therefore ROM development will always be restricted.
Hopefully the CM9 situation will accelerate when ICS Colonel Sauces are release, the developers have already done a fantastic job of getting a 90% working build.
Ho Hum.....
To sell the tablet and replace with the new Google (Asus) Nexus (depending on spec) or see what happens.
I'm feeling pretty let down by Sammie right now and to be honest it'll influence my decision about buying Sammie products in the future.

pinsb said:
You have to differentiate between lower price and diifferent price.
Personally I think the 7.7 is worth every penny and if Samsung did better marketing they could show the differences between the 7.7 and the IPad 3.
Instead they now have 5 different product ranges or 6 if you include the Galaxy Note....
7 Plus
7.7
8.9
10.1
7 v2
These, in theory, come in various memory sizes although I've never seen any memory size of more then 16gb on the 8.9, 7.7 or 7 plus ranges.
The average time between announcement and shipping seems to be 5 months and even today in the UK you cannot buy a UK sourced 7.7 3G as far as I know and it's 8 months since it was announced.
There are rumours of a 11.6? unit coming.
While I understand the desire to have a comprehensive range the reality is that Samsung are spreading themselves too thin and instead of launching 1 product in say 3 sizes they see each version as a totally new product. This means they themselves are confused about the offerings, this is reflected in the lack of marketing 'punch' in their message.
My suggestions for what could help.
1. Stop any new tablet announcements for 12 months.
2. Simplify the product range for an announcement in 12 months.
The range should be....
11.6 with no bezel (so same physical form factor as the current 10.1)
8.9 with no bezel
7 or 7.7
All should have Super Amoled Plus (or anything newer and better that's arrived by then)
The range should be technically identical except for the screen size (the specifics of the offerings would need to be worked out nearer to the launch)
Ship globally the full range within 4 weeks of the announcement, concentrate your marketing spend to this one 'product' in three size 'flavours'.
Sit back and reap the rewards.
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They should all have wacom digitizers. That's all I'll add. I dont care if its as much or more than an ipad. I HATE HATE HATE apple.
Samsung already offers a superior product. If they consildated their Note line-up into these specs, included gs3, gave the gTab 7.7 and gs3 wacom digitizers and launched them ALL with ICS at launch, let touchwiz be an opt-in with first FOTA, EVERYONE would be happy.
Sent from my GT-P6800

Yep!!
I am no marketing expert but even I can say that Samsung are continually missing out on opportunities for more sales, and more to the point getting themselves known. This isn't just the case with the P6800.
I know marketing/advertising is expensive but the rewards they would reap would be huge. Especially with the new budget Galaxy Tab 2 7.0 tablet, there are many people out there hungry for a capable tablet, but don't they want to shell out £500 for a tablet. An advertising campaign would make all the difference.
Look at the Galaxy Note! It took them 3 months to start TV adverts for it here. They really haven't a clue about marketing. Instead they are churning out products left, right and centre. Trying to cover all bases, it's an insane tactic.
The 7.7 is definitely over priced here, over £400 for the Wifi only model is just nuts. I don't own a 7.7 just yet, but I am very tempted. However, I don't have too much faith that ICS is actually coming to the 7.7.. also it's not been a very popular device for developers to play with, we can blame the price tag for that. It kinda feels like that even Samsung aren't really that interested in the 7.7. It's availability in general says something to me... then again Samsung are just a strange company.
Samsung have this frantic idea to push as many new products out the door, their business model is so wrong. They are shooting themselves in the foot.
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Be more than tempted. This is the best device on the market. From what I understand, samsung is having a hard time supplying the screens. The production process is outrageously precise and there are only two factories producing them in the whole world. Those two factories are supplying htc, motorola, and what's the other 7" amoled tablet?
Its US$699 in the states and only offered under Verizon. They took out telephony hardware. So the only way to get the gsm version is through import. I got mine used for US$500 and is in excellent condition.
The sad thing is, in my personal opinion, this technology is the greatest innovation in mark-making since the invention of painting. PM me for more on that one.
Sent from my GT-P6800

To me it looks a bit like Samsung is using a shotgun blast of models and sizes to look what the public wants.
If it becomes successful enough it gets an followup and else they try something different.

Mario387 said:
To me it looks a bit like Samsung is using a shotgun blast of models and sizes to look what the public wants.
If it becomes successful enough it gets an followup and else they try something different.
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Click to collapse
What the public want are good quality, speedy, reliable tablets, priced fairly. The first company to deliver on this will make a killing. Simple.
Samsung's trying to compete with Apple, which I now think they are close to in terms of hardware. Where they appear to be going wrong is in their pricing strategy - they are simply pricing themselves out of the market, and as long as their prices remain high they'll lose out on potentially massive sales.

HTC financial woes

i hope the One really helps HTC, but the delays are doing no favours
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/04/08/us-htc-earnings-idUKBRE93706620130408

I don't know what the fuss is all about. They are always posting profits. Less profits yes, but they are always in the black. Many companies go for years posting losses quarter after quarter. HTC has no problems as long as they are in profit each quarter.

Would now be a great time to buy stocks in HTC?

simba2585 said:
i hope the One really helps HTC, but the delays are doing no favours
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/04/08/us-htc-earnings-idUKBRE93706620130408
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I hope this thread gets locked, threads likes this really do XDA no favours.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

aydc said:
I don't know what the fuss is all about. They are always posting profits. Less profits yes, but they are always in the black. Many companies go for years posting losses quarter after quarter. HTC has no problems as long as they are in profit each quarter.
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Click to collapse
Public companies like HTC serve their shareholders who buy stock in a company because they feel that stock is going to appreciate over time increasing the size of their investment (profit). Companies reward investors by growing sales, profit margins, and generating cash that's used for reinvestment to further their growth and increasing the market capitalization of the company. Doing so makes their stock appreciate which rewards the investors that placed their faith in them. This is HTC’s 2-year stock performance as of today.
In February, HTC revised their Q1 2013 guidance down to a level so low that it spooked analysts to the point there was a run on HTC's stock that triggered stop-sales on the TW exchange it's listed on (twice) because the amount of volume being sold and the stock's price decline triggered electronic safeguards. The revenue guidance HTC provided for Q1 that caused the stock fall was between NT$50 billion and NT$60 billion. Those are numbers provided by HTC less than eight weeks ago. The number they actually posted today was NT$42.8 billion. So not only did they miss the low-end of their own guidance they've demonstrated an inability to forecast their business. The latter's actually more troubling to analysts than the miss in revenue. And keep in mind that revenue is accounted for when devices are shipped to resellers; not when they are purchased by end consumers. So HTC's shipping rate is what caused the miss, not the sales or popularity of the One. And that they didn't know within an eight week span how deep their component issues were causing them to issue erroneous guidance is indeed troubling.
Operating margin (profit) was 1/10 of 1% of revenue for the first three months of 2013. You don't have to be a finance expert to know that's not sustainable. And the One's delay has put it right up against the launch of the SGS4 which will be accompanied by wider distribution and Samsung's gazillion dollar marketing budget. Apple's also launching the iP5S and possibly a lower-priced device in June according to analyst's speculation. Neither of those things is going to be good for HTC's full-year revenue. The analysts expect HTC to benefit from the One's sales in Q2 but that they'll decline again in the remaining quarters of the year. 30 out of 33 analysts have a "sell" rating on HTC's stock.
Their financial position was 25% better than today last August when the Taiwanese government began talks of bailing HTC out rather than letting them fail. HTC cannot continue to exist the way it does today and a single positive quarter based on the success of single device can't reverse their fortunes enough to change that. So it's highly unlikely they'll go out of business but some type of government intervention accompanied by a restructuring or merger or JV with another company are pretty much a given.
With stiff competition from Apple and Samsung, HTC has posted some less than stellar numbers the past few quarters. The company is still profitable, but its decline in sales and revenue have contributed significantly to Taiwan’s five months of decline in exports which saw a drop in July of 11.6% from a year earlier. HTC may be about to receive help from the Taiwanese government as it looks to turn its fortunes around after slipping away in the smartphone market recently. According to the Commercial Times, Taiwan's Central Bank Governor, Perng Fai-nan raised the issue during a meeting with government officials, suggesting it stepped in and offered assistance to the manufacturer. Perng noted that HTC's declining sales had had a knock-on effect with Taiwan's exports, which have also witnessed a decline in recent months. During the meeting, Perng apparently went on to say that the financial status of HTC is "of vital importance to the islands' gross domestic product". The Taiwanese government is taking this issue seriously, with an unnamed official reportedly saying the Ministry of Economic Affairs is already considering various ways to help out HTC.
http://www.techradar.com/us/news/ph...htc-could-receive-government-bail-out-1091781​These numbers show the production shortage really is that bad, and my sense is that it won’t get much better in the second quarter because many of those issues continue,” said Dennis Chan, an analyst at Yuanta Securities Co. in Taipei, who recommends selling the stock. “For smartphones, timing is everything and the delay means they lose that timing.”
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...w-profit-after-latest-smartphone-delayed.html​Profit is likely to recover in the second quarter as HTC One sales increase, said Daiwa Securities analyst Birdy Lu. The company has been touting the camera's performance in low light, and plans to more than double advertising spending under a new marketing chief. "HTC's whole schedule was thrown into disarray because of the HTC One, which meant it didn't have the revenue coming in but still had a lot of fixed costs," Mr. Lu said. "There will be some improvement this quarter in terms of the bottom line, but they still face a lot of competition."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...38196.html?mod=WSJ_hp_LEFTWhatsNewsCollection​

htc is dying.
i bet samsung and apple are eager to buy htc for their patents and maybe blueprints

I'm sitting here fully perplexed
some of you call me HTC biggest fanboy
and yet in all honestly i dont care their financial woes
yes if they go away it will be a loss to the smartphone especially since they are the most unique OEM
but really why should I care all I want is the bloody device and 18months of support, the quality of the device and the software is guaranteed so why should I care about their money again?
honestly if anything Samsung's monopoly and money making is not really reflecting in better quality to the product
I prefer a zealous challenged OEM over a relaxed arrogant one

hamdir said:
some of you call me HTC biggest fanboy
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But always in a "good" way. You've helped more people than 90% of those on XDA (including me).
honestly if anything Samsung's monopoly and money making is not really reflecting in better quality to the product
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Click to collapse
Being huge doesn't guarantee continued success; at least not at the same historic velocity. Look what Samsung's success has done to Apple's stock. And with more cash in the bank than 2/3 of the world's countries one can't say Apple's not successful. Samsung can't get lazy because if they do there are too many people gunning for them. If Apple does introduce a lower-cost iPhone it's going to kick Samsung in the nuts. And both ZTE and Huawei are gunning for them too. Samsung's only got one target in its sites; Apple. What the other Android device makers do with a collective 30% market share between them doesn't concern them.
If you think about it, there are too many Android manufacturers right now. None on their own is going to catch Samsung because their lead is too wide. If a couple fail or merge leaving Samsung and two strong financially healthy Android competitors it would be much better for competition than having four vendors with fewer than 10% of the market each. The market controls smartphone selling prices. Samsung’s volume makes their component costs significantly lower than their competitors. None of those competitors can continue to offer the same features as Samsung at the same prices and maintain a decent level of profitability on far lower volume. So a “boutique” smartphone maker would end up selling a device with similar functionality at a higher retail price to sustain their profitability. I don’t think that would work that well in such a competitive market. As applies in the jungle, only the strong survive.

cjm1979 said:
I hope this thread gets locked, threads likes this really do XDA no favours.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What's wrong with discussion ?
How is xda affected ?

BarryH_GEG said:
So a “boutique” smartphone maker would end up selling a device with similar functionality at a higher retail price to sustain their profitability. I don’t think that would work that well in such a competitive market. As applies in the jungle, only the strong survive.
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Click to collapse
i would love HTC to go this way. willing to pay the premium
i think Sony and HTC are a good match but i dont know how that would work
anyway everyone is downsizing HTC than they really are, regardless of the profits/stock situation, its not really as "wallstreet" black or white as you guys think, its a lot more grey, the same can be said to many of the Asian brands as well
there is definitely a remedy being cooked for their problem but its not really what we are expecting

Great learning on this thread ,its great

@Barry,(didn't wanna quote the whole thesis), you're right, the HTC One success alone cannot bail HTC out of its financial trouble, especially with the iPhone and Galaxy S 4 coming out in Q3 and Q2 respectively. Either they're going to have to be bailed out or merge with another company. 2.8 million in profit is an All time low for HTC. The smartphone industry is a tough one, if you even have 1 off year, it will cost you big time. HTC had 2 off years.

I'm pretty optimistic about HTC with all the positive press on the One. I myself have owned every generation iphone and it took the HTC One to break the cycle. I have another friend who has always owned iphones and he just purchased four HTC Ones for his family and friends. This thing is going to be a dark horse. Samsung won't know what hit them.

grukko said:
I'm pretty optimistic about HTC with all the positive press on the One. I myself have owned every generation iphone and it took the HTC One to break the cycle. I have another friend who has always owned iphones and he just purchased four HTC Ones for his family and friends. This thing is going to be a dark horse. Samsung won't know what hit them.
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Click to collapse
I'm in the same boat. Just want my Asda order now !!!

BarryH_GEG said:
Public companies like HTC serve their shareholders who buy stock in a company because they feel that stock is going to appreciate over time increasing the size of their investment (profit). Companies reward investors by growing sales, profit margins, and generating cash that's used for reinvestment to further their growth and increasing the market capitalization of the company. Doing so makes their stock appreciate which rewards the investors that placed their faith in them. This is HTC’s 2-year stock performance as of today.
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Click to collapse
Then what would you say about Apple who have lost about $300 Billion worth of shareholder money in this time?
Or the fact that Galaxy S4 is being seen as Samsung's iphone5 moment! Apple played safe with iphone5 and historically it has broken sales records. Apple is flush with money, yet financial markets are unimpressed. Apple is no more innovative!
Samsung has done nothing with S4 but ape Apple iphone5 (that is to say play it safe). Interestingly the day S4 was announced by Samsung, Apple stock rose and investors cheered as S4 is NOT seen as much of a big threat to Apple as it could have been!
HTC is not gonna vanish anytime soon. just chillax. my company has been in huge losses for four years straight (we suppy chipsets to mobile makers) and yet are there (while we are much much smaller than even HTC). somebody always bails you out. Or otherwise also, all it takes is one blockbuster product and you are back in the game. Sony got that with XZ (they were in losses earlier). Very few companies are making any money in this business anyway but they are all hanging in there.

I don't know. I'm reconsidering what to buy after this.

joslicx said:
Then what would you say about Apple who have lost about $300 Billion worth of shareholder money in this time?
Or the fact that Galaxy S4 is being seen as Samsung's iphone5 moment! Apple played safe with iphone5 and historically it has broken sales records. Apple is flush with money, yet financial markets are unimpressed. Apple is no more innovative!
Samsung has done nothing with S4 but ape Apple iphone5 (that is to say play it safe). Interestingly the day S4 was announced by Samsung, Apple stock rose and investors cheered as S4 is NOT seen as much of a big threat to Apple as it could have been!
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Click to collapse
The difference is that apple and Samsung have big budgets and lots of money, they can afford some type of loss, HTC cannot. You said it yourself, apple played it safe with the iPhone 5 and yet they broke records sales. Do you think apple care about the lack of innovation? No, not as long as they keep selling they don't. For Samsung, the S4 is getting more preorders than the S3 in the UK alone, those are good signs and remember again both companies have lots of money and are coming from big quarters.
It isn't about them though, it's about HTC. They have a great product with the One, everybody in the tech world recognizes it so there is no doubt. The question is is it too late?

At the end of the day it will be Samsung and apple left. Rest will fold and fail. Of course Google will continue to release nexus line which is stock but always mediocre hardware.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using xda premium

sabre31 said:
At the end of the day it will be Samsung and apple left. Rest will fold and fail. Of course Google will continue to release nexus line which is stock but always mediocre hardware.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using xda premium
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Click to collapse
Lets pray that it doesn't happen, it would really make me sick. I love choices and competition.

HTC and Sony should stay alive. Sony will be for sure because they're a strong company. Can't say the same about htc. It'd be a shame if they fail.

Is Samsung Galaxy S4 popularity on the slide already?

Wonder what the reasons on this are?
I know a few people who decided it wasn't worth the upgrade over the S3.
After breaking sales records in its first month the Samsung Galaxy S4 may not be as popular as first thought, as reports roll in suggesting the Korean firm is reducing its orders.
According to ETNews, Samsung has slashed its July orders for Galaxy S4 handsets by almost half, as it looks to ship in 6.5 million units next month compared to the 12.2 million in pushed May.
Sales have apparently begun to slow at faster rate than expected, which has led Samsung to reevaluate its monthly orders to meet the reduced demand.
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http://www.techradar.com/news/phone...y-s4-popularity-on-the-slide-already--1160366

Still, it's a lot better upgrade to go from an S3 to S4 than iP4S to iP5.

For me. Battery life is one massive reason. Easily get a full day of full use on the s4 where I was struggling on the s3 with the same usage.
Sent from my GT-I9505 using xda premium

It's their own fault for diluting their brand with 20 different versions of the same phone
That and HTC really stepped up this year
Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

I wonder if all these other Galaxy branded products that have appeared from Samsung has had an effect?

I think the main reason is the S3, S3 LTE & Note II being so popular and also being alot cheaper now aswell both simfree & on contract.
Alot of people apart from us on here, will look at the S4 and think it looks no different from the S3, so no point in upgrading.
I also think brand dilution is also starting to having it effect aswell, moreso with the S4.
Next year Samsung need to go back to the drawing board with the S5, bring out something that looks totally different & fresh from the S3/S4, redesign touchwiz make it lighter & more upto date, instead of adding more bloat.

Those numbers imply that Sammy are on target for 50/80 m sales of the s4 as they projected

Ever heard of the term "market saturation" ?
There are tons of S3 everywhere around me and none of them is planning to update any time soon.
Sent from my GT-I9505 using xda app-developers app

I've had an S3 i9300 since it was launched and I bought an S4 i9500 yesterday.
The only important difference I see is in the camera software.
Wasn't worth the purchase. Should have waited for the Note 3.

You kind of have to put the SGS4's sales "decline" in context:
High-end smartphone sales are slowing. Primarily because the market has matured and penetration is now high. This is an issue that affects every high-end smartphone manufacturer equally. And in emerging markets high-end phones aren’t what sell. As an example, high-end smartphones over $400 USD only made up 2.5% of smartphone sales in India in 2012. Phones between $100-130 USD were 30% of sales.
Samsung may have outpaced Apple in smartphone sales last quarter, but it’s facing the same slowdown risks as its biggest competitor. Both companies are battling to dominate the world’s smartphone market. In places such as the United States, nearly everyone who’s interested in buying a smartphone already has one, decreasing demand overall. But the smartphone revolution has yet to hit the world’s most lucrative markets such as China and India in full force. That leaves smartphone companies in a bind. High-end devices provide the lion’s share of smartphone profits, and are still too expensive to appeal to customers outside of the major cities in the world’s most important markets.
Samsung, overall, is well-positioned to navigate this split. The company is already the market leader in China and picking up more customers across the globe, thanks to its strategy of offering a wide range of devices apart from its premium iPhone competitor, the Galaxy S 4. Apple, meanwhile, offers older versions of its phones at lower prices rather than specifically making cheaper phones.​http://articles.washingtonpost.com/...one-market-smartphone-sales-smartphone-makers
The SGS3 sold 50MM units over twelve months. Analysts have lowered their estimates on SGS4's shipped; primarily because of the above. But in this example the analyst dropped his estimate from 80MM to 60MM this year. Since the SGS4 launched in April that allows for nine selling months. On an annualized basis 60MM is equal to 80MM SGS4's a year. That's a 33% increase over the SGS3's annualized selling rate.
JPMorgan now expects Suwon, South Korea-based Samsung’s shipments of the S4 to be 60 million this year, compared with a previous estimate of 80 million. Samsung sold 10 million units of the S4 within 27 days, the company said.​http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...pmorgan-cuts-estimates-on-s4-seoul-mover.html
Samsung itself never disclosed actual SGS4 sales targets for 2013. All the numbers being talked about were unofficial analysts estimates. In terms of overall mobile sales revenue Samsung will probably still meet analysts’ expectations. This year Samsung's got a ton of products launching in the same time frame (SGS4, SGS4 Active, SGS4 Zoom, SGS4 Mini, Mega, N3, a bunch of mid-range phones, and four new tablets). The concern becomes "profit" rather than "sales" because Samsung makes less on non-Flagship devices. Here's what Samsung's CEO said about the SGS4's sales.
"I can say sales of the Galaxy S4 smartphone are fine. It’s been selling well. The report (by JPMorgan) was based on its own analysis. Probably, the bank may have corrected its previous bullish estimate about the S4 sales."​http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_ceo_says_galaxy_s4_sales_are_fine-news-6210.php
Samsung, because of their dominance, has become like Apple. They are the company the investment community and media "love to hate." A headline like "Samsung loses $20B of market value" gets a lot more clicks than "HTC reports another disappointing quarter." So at every opportunity expect to see some tidbit regarding Samsung's performance to become "major news." They and Apple generate 95% of mobile device profits. There may be fewer profits because of changes in the market place but the 95% of profits they both share isn't going to change. And if Apple and Samsung are "challenged" where does that leave the dozen manufacturers sharing 5% of mobile device profit?

Maybe you could install s4camera on your S3 by an rom update.... ?
Sent from my ZP810 using Tapatalk 2

oicirbaf said:
Maybe you could install s4camera on your S3 by an rom update.... ?
Sent from my ZP810 using Tapatalk 2
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Click to collapse
I use Omega ROM. Maybe Indie could implement that mod. I don't think it's available because I've been waiting for it since the S4 was launched. There are several S4 imitation ROMs for the S3.

Dunno if the above claim is true or not, but the reason is pretty simple.
Increased Competition.
The competition for an android based smartphone is never like before, During the days of s2 and s3 those phones were the only dominant performers with the rest of the manufacturers catching up. But now thats not the case any more, making an android based phone has become much simpler for phone companies. Get a cheaply available LCD, get a cheaply available soc like mediatek or some other, put it inside a mobile body and voila!!! there we have a new android device ready.
With the emergence of snapdragon all over in high end devices and samsung struggling to get their big little architecture right(5420 might fix all those issues), its pretty apparent that things are not looking good for sammy.
In India currently almost all mobile manufacturers have launched a quadcore phone with 720p LCD, So how will you differentiate those mobiles from the high end ones? For now the only differentiation between s3,s4 and the rest of cheaply available android phones is the amount of software goodies samsung provides as an addon and the high quality soc inside.Only time will tell on how long this will go.

The HTC One is certainly a much closer competitor to GS4 than the competition the GS3 faced last year.

If the s5 comes in one hardware version with all wcdma and lte bands enabled it will be the next best seller guaranteed!

I would be interested to see how many google gs4's will be purchased. I almost grabbed a gs4 before I heard about the google one and thats on my list to purchase two of them next week.

Sales might go up with google edition.
Sent from the state where marijuana is not illegal !

thedadio said:
If the s5 comes in one hardware version with all wcdma and lte bands enabled it will be the next best seller guaranteed!
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Click to collapse
I'll tell you what, if the specs of the Sony Xperia Homani are real, Samsung, HTC, Apple, are all going to have to go back to drawing board. Spec wise it's going to embarrass everyone.

bala_gamer said:
The competition for an android based smartphone is never like before, During the days of s2 and s3 those phones were the only dominant performers with the rest of the manufacturers catching up. But now thats not the case any more, making an android based phone has become much simpler for phone companies. Get a cheaply available LCD, get a cheaply available soc like mediatek or some other, put it inside a mobile body and voila!!! there we have a new android device ready.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All those reasons are why everyone that's not Samsung and Apple are screwed and why the two of them own mobile device profits. Samsung and Apple control the supply chain because of their massive component commitments. They also get components on hugely favorable terms because of their volume. In Samsung's case, they even make a good deal of their own components further driving up their profit.
I'm not picking on HTC but they are a good example. They don't build a single component used in their devices. All they do is assemble the pieces they buy from third parties. Because their volume has dropped, they aren't even a tier one vendor any longer. That means they pay more per component than their competitors, don't get first priority for in-demand parts, and can have their supply chain disrupted as seen by the botched launch of the One. How are they or anyone else every going to compete against Samsung and Apple if their vendor status is lower, their component prices are higher, and have to sell products at prices determined by the market?
Micromax is a great example. They compete on price and sell largely average devices with mid-range specs and features. No one in India aspires to a Micromax phone. They buy them because Samsung and Apple are more expensive. Samsung's pushing low and mid-range devices in countries like India and China and are making more profit than companies like Micromax because their overall component costs are lower.
Samsung and Apple spend billions on promotion and branding and are both aspirational brands and have become synonymous with "premium" much like BMW, M-B, and Audi are. Between Samsung's global distribution and support infrastructure, lower component costs, and a cache brand the only thing keeping them from owning the low-end market is its lack of profitability compared to other segments their dominant in. Why would they sell a $100 USD phone in India if they didn’t have to? If someone in India could buy similarly spec'd phones from Samsung and Micromax which do you think they'd choose. Much like Apple's moving out of the premium tier with a lower-cost iPhone, Samsung will eventually push down in to lower ends of the market to protect their market share and revenue growth. And there's not a damn thing any other manufacturer can do to compete against that once they do. If phone are a commodity now like you say, and cost<>feature is relatively equal, people will buy the brand they equate with “premium.” And that’s not Micromax, Oppo, ZTE, and Huawei. At the same prices as Samsung and Apple even well-known brands like LG, HTC, Sony, and Motorola are having a hard time competing and making absolutely no profit doing it.

vapotrini said:
I'll tell you what, if the specs of the Sony Xperia Homani are real, Samsung, HTC, Apple, are all going to have to go back to drawing board. Spec wise it's going to embarrass everyone.
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I doubt Honami will be THAT great, the S800 will make it a powerful phone, sure, but other than that? I think it will be more of a Xperia Z+ type thing, better CPU/GPU and Camera, much like Xperia S to Xperia T.