Related
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...Track=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:middle:us
I came across this looking for an 8525, it seems that he may be using the FREE programs available on here. I would say whoever created them go after this guy because it's obviously not fair he is using what you created to profit without you getting anything for it. I'm not 100% sure if he is use the programs from here, but I mean how many Sim/CID unlock program are really out there for the 8525?
I just reported the item to ebay, this is JJ's stuff and other members hard work.
Lurch3559 said:
I just reported the item to ebay, this is JJ's stuff and other members hard work.
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maybe a copy of SPL-****er will be worming its way to him... nothing to do with me of course ^_^
You're welcome guys .
Yeah thats a bunch of bull****. i was looking on ebay the other day for a broken wizard and i saw someone selling a program that would load farias wm6 rom onto their phone. I reported that **** right away. There are so many people on here that are so talented and make so much awesome programs and not charge us a dime for it, but then you got dicks like that guy who decides to profit off of other peoples hard work. Death to that ****er.
Really classy how he was going to put commercial video game ROMs onto the phone/memory card too.
Not only was this guy trying to rip off the individuals here at XDA-dev, but also large corporations as well...
S-M-R-T
chenga said:
Really classy how he was going to put commercial video game ROMs onto the phone/memory card too.
Not only was this guy trying to rip off the individuals here at XDA-dev, but also large corporations as well...
S-M-R-T
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I asked him about the programs and whether he developed them or not, here is the response I got:
"no not personally, but do talk to some of the developers and i donate some of my profit to them. any other questions feel free to ask
thanx
nate"
"i do cook my own roms if thats what you are asking, and just recieved an email asking me to remove this service and aparently reported to ebay, so i will not be able to offer this service at this time
sry
nate"
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Good Catch myztikal47.
I guess we can all help the developers here by keeping an eye out for this kind of crap.
I think it wouldn't be a bad Idea to have a sticky on this topic, something with an eye catching title, so more are aware of this issue, so as to be looking out for stinking thieves at places like ebay or craigslist.
I think it was only a question of time. There is no way how to block this. He can use new account, new name or whatever. we have similar problem on our forum, it is strictly technical forum about repairing TV, radio, video, SAT, PC... and we also have big storage with service manuals, service tips and few guys from us steal this infos from us and trying to profit on these! those information have price of gold, but is no help to stop this. So we decide for higher security, for restriction who can download files, and vice-versa etc. but here is not so easy I think, this will kill this forum.
wow he even had a picture of JJ rom on the page thats the lowest of low stealing and turning anround and making a profit off of it... His address is at the bottom of the page if anyone wants to send him a thank you card!
sinmae said:
I think it was only a question of time. There is no way how to block this. He can use new account, new name or whatever. we have similar problem on our forum, it is strictly technical forum about repairing TV, radio, video, SAT, PC... and we also have big storage with service manuals, service tips and few guys from us steal this infos from us and trying to profit on these! those information have price of gold, but is no help to stop this. So we decide for higher security, for restriction who can download files, and vice-versa etc. but here is not so easy I think, this will kill this forum.
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I don't think I take such a gloomy view. I agree it is impossible to stop someone selling a service and it is not in the spirit of this forum to sell either advice or cooked ROMs etc. But to play "devil's advocate" for a minute, what is it we object to? Is it that these folk are making money? Is it the lack of acknowledgement to the people who have put in all the development work? Is it the danger that selling this type of thing brings unwanted attention from M$ and telecom service providers?
I personally don't object to someone selling their time to help someone who lacks knowledge though they should tell the customer that they could learn for free from this site. If someone offered me cash to help them flash a ROM I don't think I'd feel guilty if I accepted money to do it. (Though I never have!).
I feel the main reason to block this kind of activity is that we already have unwanted attention from the likes of M$ without being associated with the sale of a service that relys on what M$ consider to be illegally altered M$ material. The very act of selling the service will bring a much harder approach from M$ IMO. No longer would we we seen as a bunch of keen dedicated geeky amateurs, but people out to profit illegally from M$ original work.
I notice on a brighter note that the two cases of this I am aware of are no longer available through ebay. In one case the individual has withdrawn the service and the other was removed by ebay.
EDIT: One of them is BACK
As a warning to others who might follow - selling a service or ROMs in this very public way is almost certainly illegal, particularly if bundled with a whole lot of other commercial games etc. If you want to take on the M$ legal team then this is a good way to go about it - remember it's not just the developers here that are not giving permission it is M$ original work that is being made available in a "corrupted" form.
Mike
This guy is back! But in a different flavor. I just found this today on eBay:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/CINGULAR-8525-HT...ryZ64355QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
He is WAAAAYYY overcharging on this phone. His justification? 1) the free upgrades found on this site, and 2) a CD of cracked illegal software.
And I fell sorry for this buyers who fell for his iPhone upgrade scam:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/HTC-CINGULAR-812...ryZ64355QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.ca/HTC-CINGULAR-812...ryZ64355QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I can't believe people fell for that!
this isnt that much different from offering a service to fix phones that users have broken. IE i upgraded to windows mobile 6 and now it doesnt turn on.
yes hes selling other peoples work but really the people that pay him arnt paying him for the software they are paying him for the knowledge he has gained from reading
i would offer a repair service for noobs but theres allready people doing it.
its actually no different to taking a black rom and not donating then complaining about it
tallshorty said:
And I fell sorry for this buyers who fell for his iPhone upgrade scam:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/HTC-CINGULAR-812...ryZ64355QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.ca/HTC-CINGULAR-812...ryZ64355QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I can't believe people fell for that!
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What is to say those buyers are not M$ trying to get the individuals information and then suing him later? Just a thought...
IMO it's fine for him to sell phone with the software pre-loaded on them already, thats like anyone on here selling their phone with all the hacks already done....but to actually have a service to install the software on the phone and profit from that, and not pay the people who created the software...well thats illegal, someone should just report him to Microsoft, they'll have a field day with him lol.
myztikal47 said:
IMO it's fine for him to sell phone with the software pre-loaded on them already, thats like anyone on here selling their phone with all the hacks already done....but to actually have a service to install the software on the phone and profit from that, and not pay the people who created the software...well thats illegal, someone should just report him to Microsoft, they'll have a field day with him lol.
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I agree with you on that but look at how much higher he is selling the phone because of the free softwares. It's the same as offering the service, basically.
he must need some money to be doing this...this guy must be a crack addict...or meth...yeah probably meth addict, anyways
I'm saddened to see stuff like this go on...coupled with these annoying noobs flooding the forums, m$ being ever so watchful, and the eventuality of newer devices...the great people of XDA might just get turned off from all of this...i know some are already extremely annoyed
...only time will tell
I have a close personal friend that works for Microsoft in their Windows Mobile team and I am going to forward this thread as well as the links to the ebay auctions over to him.
mikechannon said:
I don't think I take such a gloomy view. I agree it is impossible to stop someone selling a service and it is not in the spirit of this forum to sell either advice or cooked ROMs etc. But to play "devil's advocate" for a minute, what is it we object to? Is it that these folk are making money? Is it the lack of acknowledgement to the people who have put in all the development work? Is it the danger that selling this type of thing brings unwanted attention from M$ and telecom service providers?
I personally don't object to someone selling their time to help someone who lacks knowledge though they should tell the customer that they could learn for free from this site. If someone offered me cash to help them flash a ROM I don't think I'd feel guilty if I accepted money to do it. (Though I never have!).
I feel the main reason to block this kind of activity is that we already have unwanted attention from the likes of M$ without being associated with the sale of a service that relys on what M$ consider to be illegally altered M$ material. The very act of selling the service will bring a much harder approach from M$ IMO. No longer would we we seen as a bunch of keen dedicated geeky amateurs, but people out to profit illegally from M$ original work.
I notice on a brighter note that the two cases of this I am aware of are no longer available through ebay. In one case the individual has withdrawn the service and the other was removed by ebay.
EDIT: One of them is BACK
As a warning to others who might follow - selling a service or ROMs in this very public way is almost certainly illegal, particularly if bundled with a whole lot of other commercial games etc. If you want to take on the M$ legal team then this is a good way to go about it - remember it's not just the developers here that are not giving permission it is M$ original work that is being made available in a "corrupted" form.
Mike
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I will point out a couple of things wrong with this Mike... 1. He is using JJ's roms and i highly doubt JJ is getting any kind of kickback. 2. His ebay username nateshuntsvegas is the same as on here. That alone could very well attract some negative attention as if M$ havent given us a hard time the way it is.
the rest of it i agree with
shogunmark said:
I will point out a couple of things wrong with this Mike... 1. He is using JJ's roms and i highly doubt JJ is getting any kind of kickback. 2. His ebay username nateshuntsvegas is the same as on here. That alone could very well attract some negative attention as if M$ havent given us a hard time the way it is.
the rest of it i agree with
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I don't disagree with your comment, but as JJ's work is freely available for folk to download it's impossible to stop anyone selling services to install it. But yes the negative attention of M$ (linked as it is to here) is certainly not what we want. If we are seen by M$ to be set against any moves to sell this kind of material or a service to install it I'm sure this will improve their view of us.
Mike
Ok. I have this idea that could make millions of dollars if pitched correctly. This invention would work for the Kaiser and many other phone manufacterers but I'll just stick to WM platform for now. How would I be able to get developers to help out on it without the fear of it getting stolen?
I'm currently looking into getting a patent. Any recommendations other than that to safeguard my idea?
i guess you can never trust people in this kind of things. one thing you could do is to find some people that will sign some kind of contract and then make this contract official (find some lawyer to make this contract for you and approve it)
Thanks dude. I'm saving some money so I can hire a lawyer and get paperwork straight. This idea is genius and practical. I just needed the help of some genius developers too. Didn't want to spill the info but wanted some re-assurance.
I was thinking about something.
You hear people suing people over a song that they originally created. The funny thing is that the lawsuit comes up when the song becomes popular and rakes in millions. That's a smart thing. I mean if my idea ever got stolen. Anways any lawyers on this forum. Any idea of the cost of getting this into contract and patented?
if this idea of yours got anything to do with wm i guess you can find quality developers here on xda. just search and find developers that created software somehow related to your idea (same developing tools used, same environment...).
as for the costs, i got no idea and it depends on country you are in. but the costs can not exceed the profit if plans are realistic. so, all you need to know is how sure are you that the idea is good, possible to realize, has market and things like this. you also need to know that you must invest if you wan't to make a profit.
my advise to you is that you reconsider your idea and it's realism and then if you really believe in idea and yourself just go for it. the point is that you must be sure in what you are doing and do it in right time. as people say, time is money.
p.s.: i would suggest you to find some moderator and ask him to move this thread in some more relevant forum (some in general forums) as there you have more chance to get some reply
Here is what I would do first off -
I would describe the entire project and then mail it to myself registered mail and do NOT open the envelope. This will be your proof that you had the idea on this date as you describe it in the note.
Bill
whk said:
Here is what I would do first off -
I would describe the entire project and then mail it to myself registered mail and do NOT open the envelope. This will be your proof that you had the idea on this date as you describe it in the note.
Bill
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But this has absolutely no value in case you need to go to court.
What has is the date you file a patent application with a brief summary of the idea. The best is to to that ASAP. After that, you have about one year to formulate the exact patent text highlighting the exact key points that can apply for a patent (that are considered innovative) and that you want to protect. This will then have to be approved, and then (this can be months/years later) the patent is active and you can start suing potential copiers. BUT, the important point is that the date you filed the application on is the one that is valid in case someone else files another patent on the same subject, the one applying first wins. Note that nothing of it can be made public before this is done or everything is void.
It should cost a couple of thousand $ to get the application done, then once your patent is accepted the amount you need to pay depends on the number of countries you want to protect it in, and can reach $10k or more per country per year.
I have filed a patent application myself about 2 years ago, and that 1 year delay to file the definitive text was enough to convince me that the move was just useless. But my idea doesn't make millions anyway.
Personally for something that is software-based, as an individual, if the idea is really good and has a lot of potential I'd just file an application to have that first filing date in case really needed, but I guess I wouldn't go further. The problem is above - you need to choose the countries the idea is protected in. For software, if you don't go worldwide then all it would take to someone wanting to copy you would be to open an office in one of the countries you didn't list and start spreading his copy from there without you being able to do anything against it, but still having paid the patent a fair lot that is now lost...
Note that all of this is my experience and what I've learned from it - I'm no lawyer and you should still ask advice from one to take the right decisions. It's valid for international protection, if you're in the US and want to file a US only patent things are simpler and go faster from what I've heard.
kilrah said:
But this has absolutely no value in case you need to go to court...snip...
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Very little has any value in court.
I have spent $60,000.00 defending software written by me. It was obvious that the person violating the software had deeper pockets than we did and could simply tie us up in legal maneuvers forever - we simply had to quit prosecuting.
Bill
I have run my own company for 30 years. Now let me get this straight, you have an idea but want everyone else to develop it for you, so you can make millions. Does that sum it up?
People only steal and misappropriate when they feel (rightly/wrongly) that they are getting taken advantage of to line someone else's pockets.
"I deserve all the money because it was my idea," doesn't cut it. Make people feel they are helping themselves as much as you. Give them a fair share and they will work hard and be honest.
Now before you nay sayers start telling me I live in a fantasy world, as I said up front ,I've been doing it for thirty years.
Oh yeah, and keep a real good eye on the Ledgers.
gqstatus0685 said:
Thanks dude. I'm saving some money so I can hire a lawyer and get paperwork straight. This idea is genius and practical. I just needed the help of some genius developers too. Didn't want to spill the info but wanted some re-assurance.
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Hire someone.
Ok. I wasn't saying that I was going to get all the money. Obviosly If I hired some developers from this site I would state in contract what the terms would be and what everyone's share would be. I'd doubt a developer would work on a project blindly without knowing what they were going to get out of it. I just wanted information and once I get all this sorted out then I can speak on the project. It is for windows mobile and could be used by millions of people in different professions.
so after posting an excerpt of my letter to Dan Morrill, the author of the absolutely idiotic statement regarding what they're doing, i received several PMs asking me to post the whole thing. It's so long it wont fit in a single post, so read it all. if you dont want to read a wall of text, stop here and go to a new thread.
Mr. Morrill,
First, I would like to bid you a good day, as I'm sure this letter is going to effect it. Yes, that is a bold statement to make at the onset, but writings such as these have a way of eating their way into your psyche and leaving a lasting impression that could very well sour your appetite at lunch time.
Perhaps I should introduce myself. My name is XXXXXXXXXXXXX, and I am an amateur developer on the Android platform. I am also a user of many of the custom Android builds that have come out since the release of the source development kit, including the build made by Steve "Cyanogen" Kondik. Ah, yes, now you see what this letter is going to be about.
So lets start with the basics. Google is a multi-billion dollar corporation that released a supposedly open-source platform onto the mobile device market. Now, I say mobile device as opposed to mobile phone, simply because there are products being released, such as the Zii EGG, which do not support telecommuniations, yet are still running on the Android platform. Now, in any reasonable programmers mind, the reason for making a platform open source, regardless of what the Public Relations people spin it as, is to alleviate some of the burden on the actual in-house development teams. The source code created by thousands of bright minds is doubtless going to yield a much stonger end result than that of a small development squad. Its simple mathematics. Well, that point alongside the fact that the original linux developers made no secret of their intentions by open-sourcing their operating system, which paved the way for Android many many years later.
In addition to that, all of the applications included in the "stock", or unmodified and officially released Android, builds are free. Any user with internet access can use any of these functions through the internet, with the blessings of your employer, free of charge. Yet, somehow, this has caused a sort of hiccup between your supposed idea of free development and that of the general public. Now, before you warp your mind into "this guy doesnt know what he's talking about" mode, think about the principles that your company was founded upon. You wanted to beat out the corporate giants and look out for the little guy. Oh yes, I've done my homework on Google over the years. The benevolent company trying to provide free services for the masses that the "evil-empire" corporations would deny free access to. Ironically enough, this letter is being written to you on Google Docs, another of your free services. Quite troublesome, it would seem.
And now, lest I digress further, I'll shift to the meat of the topic. In your statement regarding the cease and desist letter to Mr. Kondik, you claim that the sales of your free software to be used on mobile platforms being provided to the end user by custom developers for free would hurt the bottom line. Perhaps you should re-examine your own words. Free software being given to the masses by developers whom you claim to encourage is huring your profit share because you cannot sell the use of it to large corporations. Pardon me if I fail to understand the rationale behind such a contradictory and obviously ridiculous statement. But just so that you can understand my position on the matter, lets look at a related position. Google produces an internet browser, Chrome. Mozilla, a competing franchise, produces Firefox, their own browser. Developers for firefox have created applications which borrow on Google's proprietary code to access the functionality of the various features and programs. Are these developers charged for being able to include such features? No. Are these developers caused to halt their activities through threats of legal action for providing end users access to the capabilities that Google readily offers for free? No. So where is the disparity between allowing a competitor to do such things and tying the hands of developers of YOUR open source platform from doing the same?
Before I go further, let me give you a little background on myself to illuminate things. I used to work for XXXXXXXXXXXXXX. I worked in one of their call centers with well over a thousand people, almost a quarter of whom purchased the G1. More than 50% of those users had custom builds running on their phones. How would I know this? I personally installed it on over 300 and gave instructions to many more who wanted to do it themselves. This was one call center. But your apparent attitude on the situation makes it apparent that providing these people with custom software that includes the Google-based programs that were ORIGINALLY ON THE DEVICE AT PURCHASE, is illegal. I'm sorry sir, but that notion is preposterous. All of the Android-based mobile platforms on the market today include the software that caused you to send Mr. Kondik a cease and desist letter. This means that every single end user who purchased one of the devices paid that bottom line you spoke of. Any other rationale is impossible. Non-supporting devices will not run Android, and as such, the only way to use the device is to have purchased one. This brings us to the logical conclusion that those applications, such as GMail and Google Talk are PAID FOR. The situation is equitable to this situation: Joe purchases a computer from a major distributor, say Dell. Dell gives Joe a complimentary piece of free software (available on the Dell website) which updates his drivers on the Dell website, included with his purchase. Joe decides he doesnt particularly like the operating system on the computer, and installs an operating system more to his liking, that also happens to include the Dell software. But lo-and-behold, that free software shouldnt be free to Joe, even though he paid Dell's bottom line through his original computer purchase.
Your flaw is that you are obviously trying to "spin" the situation. Unfortunately, its a thin disguise and everyone can see through it, clear as crystal. These people that I speak of? Developers. The developers whom you claim to encourage. This brings me to my next point. Developers are essentially software hackers. They take the code from a program, rip it apart, improve on it, and then put it back out on the market for other developers to toy with. Perhaps, in your travels as a computer programmer, you have come across a copy of the much fabled "hacker's manifesto". Free access to data. That is what it was about at its core philosophy. You claimed to provide developers with that free access through Android, and then punish the people whom you claim to support.
Have you ever seen "The Devil's Advocate", Mr. Morrill? Al Pacino has an excellent line in which he is describing the way God imbued man with instinct, saying "Think about it. He gives man instincts. He gives you this extraordinary gift, and then what does He do, I swear for His own amusement, his own private, cosmic gag reel, He sets the rules in opposition. It's the goof of all time. Look but don't touch. Touch, but don't taste. Taste, don't swallow." Is this not what you've done here? You've given us, the developers, what you claim to be an open-source platform, written for mobile platforms that contain previously installed versions of the software, and also containing applications that each and every possible user would have purchased through buying the device on which they run. Then you tell us that it is illegal for us to modify any portion of that software which you see fit at any given point in time. Perhaps you should have just kept it closed-source, so that anything innovative wouldnt stir controvversy, as it would have truly been illegal. You give us a gift and then set the rules in opposition as it suits you.
Now, if I havent struck a nerve yet, perhaps I will in my own belief on the subject. You FEAR us. The android development team put out an initial platform. The developers, using the source code given to us, have turned out platforms on several different versions that utilize more functionality with greater performance, more flexibility and a wider range of features than ANYTHING that the official releases have even come close to. Mr. Kondik's releases are a prime example of this. He has created a version of the platform which utilizes every aspect of the platform infinitely better than the official releases. He has also included functionality from FUTURE releases, constantly and consistently improving on such, in a timeframe that should have your development team in absolute hysterics. That, sir, is what I believe this is about. Fear and shame. Never did you imagine that the Android development community would be able to surpass the Godly heights of the original development team, but we have and continually do so. It's his popularity that earned him the letter. He posed the biggest threat to your team by sharing a creative vision with anyone willing to install it that your team couldn't possibly compete with. But what about all of the other major developers? As of right now, I can count over a hundred different custom builds that include much of the same functionality and applications that Mr. Kondik's software includes. Are you going to attempt to stop them too?
(continued in post #2)
I assume you have been on the internet before. I assume you know that it spans the globe and has absolutely no limits or boundaries. It is freedom at its peak. Anyone, anywhere can express anything they want. The beautiful thing is that it enables people to communicate, and thereby collaborate in real-time. An internet community with thirty thousand people doesnt have to find a meeting room with enough chairs. This is the problem you're facing. You have attempted to cut the head off of a snake that you created. Unfortunately, on the internet, when you cut off the head of a snake, the body doesnt die. A thousand more heads spawn in its place, angrier, defiant and more intent on their purpose. Perhaps that should be a wake up call.
Mr. Morrill, I hope that in reading this letter, you have come to realize the gravity of your position. You have not only hurt yourselves, but angered an entire community, consisting of tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of people. These are the people who write the applications that are sold on the Android Market. These are the people who have the time to spare to ensure that you still have a job by creating works of digital art, using the code that you claim to be "open source". Are you so obtuse as to believe that these people are going to slip silently into the night when their creativity is stifled by the whims of a multibillion dollar corporation? I think not, sir.
You simply cannot give freedom to the masses and then attempt to bind their hands, as you are attempting to do in this case. This has ended in cataclysmic failure for every culture and every authority that has attempted to do so in history. We live in a global society of ingenuity. People WILL find a way. The creative power of the developers of the android community will inevitably break you. History has shown ample evidence that a creative mind cannot be beaten down. No army of lawyers, no amount of cease and desist letters will stop the tide of creativity.
It's like a bear. The choice you had was to embrace this creativity and nurture it or to poke at it with a stick. Mr. Morrill, are you aware of the consequences of poking a bear with a stick? Some thought on that will bring you to an obvious, and quite unpleasant, conclusion.
Had you simply left well enough alone, the damage might have been minimal, but at this point you could be looking at a 2009 reenactment of the Boston Tea Party, with the Android platform playing the part of the British tea. The damage to your "bottom line" was so infinitesimally small as to equate to a mouse burping on a rush hour subway car in New York City. As stated previously, it is simply my belief that your development team was offended by the fact that amateur developers would put them to shame. Does Android come with a complimentary set of swim trunks? Perhaps you might invest. I hear Boston Harbor gets cold in the winter.
In closing, perhaps you should let the immortal words of Japanese Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto echo through your mind as you contemplate the statements made in this letter:
"I fear that all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve".
Mr. Morrill, the giant is awake now, and his resolve is beyond your wildest dreams. I truly hope you are prepared to reap the consequences of what you have put in motion.
Sincerely,
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
amazing. your right they do fear us and they have woken a sleeping giant. what i dont get is the fact that these roms are making this phone better. as you said you gave over 300 people instructions how to do this at the call center. if anything these devs are helping google make sales, and google doesnt even have to make a better product. they make they same thing tht has been out since 0ct.22.2008 and the devs make it better. you sir are a god among men.
Wow, great letter, really looking forward to hearing the response to this - If you'd post it that is ;-)
You misspelt "purchased" in the eighth paragraph btw
yeah, this was the pre-spell-checked rough draft. the copy that i sent him was clean as a whistle.
Interesting letter. Not to mock you or anything, but it reminds me a lot of Keith Olbermann.
I am a RSA for TMO, and one of the major selling points was that Android was (is?) Open Source. That was a big deal to many customers.
I don't think the folks over a Google realize how tech savvy even the dumbest tech user is.
Had probably a 60 year old man come in the other day and he had put Hero on his G1 by himself.
(No offense to any oldsters.)
The world is changing, and Google just jumped in front of that subway train you mentioned.
this was truly a great letter. i would love to see the response (if you even get one) to this. i feel inspired to go do something now...
Android users, this is your call to arms.
Before you go and write long winded threatening letters to someone, maybe you should look into what you are writing about first. The person you are writing the letter to is an employee of a company that tells him what to do. I doubt after all of the help he has given developers and "hackers" in the Android irc channel, that he was just planning on striking everything down. My guess, and that of many others who know of him (havent chatted a lot, but he is social with us) would be that he was told to write that post. I dont want cyanogen roms to go away either, but I think you are going at it the wrong way. Hate the company, not the developers.
And after re-reading the post, you mention installing this on devices that already have it. The exact same arguement I used but you must also realize that an HTC hero does not get these Google Apps. It is an HTC branded phone and instead gets HTC branded apps. The "With Google" phones are the only ones that come with these apps pre-installed. Even then, apparently (I just found this out today) that your license to these apps does not allow you to copy them OFF of the device they came on. So that cut down another idea we had: copy the apps from the rom to SD, flash image, copy apps back.
Once again, I do not disagree with you or your anger, I just disagree with who you are directing it at.
irrelevant. "i was just doing what i was told" is never an excuse. it doesnt work in the justice system, and it doesnt work here. i could elaborate more, but i really dont want to invoke Godwin's Law this early in the conversation. he opened his mouth. he made himself the target. everyone is a nice and helpful person until they show their true colors.
perhaps its just me, but i'm one of those people that actually hold to my ideals. if i'm fighting for something and my boss tells me to do otherwise, i'm going to tell him to pack sand. if I get fired, i can always find a new job, but I can do so with my integrity intact. he had a choice. everyone always has a choice.
also, to your second post, the HTC branded phones arent the subject of controversy. the apps are "free". i quote free because it isnt true in this case. how is distributing the official Gmail app for free any different than accessing the same capabilities through another means? if I were to delete the official GMail app off of my phone entirely and instead access my gmail account through a browser, wouldnt that have the same effect on Google's "bottom line"? I'm still using the same service and not paying for it. Similarly, with the hero, if you have access to GMail through any email application or browser, are you not violating the same concept? You're still using the core of google's intellectual property for free. Their only real solution is to make the Google apps paid applications that everyone has access to if they want to shell out the cash, or simply drop the whole thing.
Are they going to stop people from creating custom GMail apps too? Cause if so, they've got a big fish to fry, cause they'd have to go after everyone who wrote a gmail plugin for firefox as well. any way you look at it, they're not going to stop the development community from going on, its simply too big.
If Dell gives you a "free" copy of vista on your laptop, and then you buy a compaq with linux installed on it. Does that mean you have the right to install your "free" vista on the compaq also? It was free! How about you write a new windows shell and you bundle your free windows vista with it. And you also throw in your free copy of Office that came with it.
I understand their point and I realize these examples are not EXACT enough to matter, but the point does. They give you the apps for A SPECIFIC device and they give them to you with rules. Rules that we do not like.
I feel that they instead of C&D'ing him, should have had a little sit down with him. Said "hey, we realize you are doing a lot of good for us by promoting our product and giving those who want more what they ask for when we cannot, but we have some rules for you. A, you must make every attempt you can to make sure the roms you distribute go on authorized "With Google" devices. B, not release stuff you do not have permission to release." This would allow google to control what he releases enough to fit within the rules (keeps carriers from saying "hey, he can release your apps without paying, why cant we?"). They would also benefit from the many thousands of users who flock to these custom roms but realize they are unusable in their bare forms.
And so you do not have to, I will be the first to pull the term nazi out of my hat in this one
I agree completely. As i said in the letter, they could have nurtured creativity (i.e. having a sit down with him and saying "hey look, we know that this is going to non-google devices and we cant have that, so make an attempt to not let it happen") or poke it with a stick. They chose the stick, and now they get to reap the backlash.
I also understand your initial examples, and while they do hold true for the circumstance, windows isnt lauded as being an open-source platform. In addition, i havent heard of microsoft going after people who create custom shells that utilize windows information, so long as they put a disclaimer on it saying that you're only allowed to use them if you're running an authorized copy of the OS. The same should have been done here, as you suggested.
Also, microsoft has specific anti-piracy safeguards in place to keep you from installing that software on your compaq that didnt come with it. Can you get around it? sure. Piracy happens, but its also illegal. But google has no such safeguards on the apps. Is it because they lacked the foresight to see this coming? Absolutely. If they didnt want the apps installed on non-branded/non-approved devices, then perhaps they should have made it impossible to do so. Sure, people would eventually find a way around it, but then they'd have a legitimate piracy gripe. As it is now, they dont. You dont hand a kid a cookie, let him eat half and then snatch it away because he shared the chocolate chips. You keep him away from the cookies from the get-go.
It really is a sad state of affiars. If something is going to be free, such as GMail, then Google shouldnt care how the users access it. How big of a chunk of their profits do you think its really going to hurt if people with the hero get a free copy of the gmail app? I bet their legal team made for handling this "issue" than it would cost them in ten years. If the apps in question were paid apps, then I would completely understand. People shouldnt get something free that they should have to pay for, which is one of the reasons that XDA has such a strict "warez" policy. But thats not the case.
The simplest solution would have been to realize that "oops, we did tell them it was open source, maybe we should clarify a bit and see if we can come to a reasonable understanding". But alas...
Also, to your point that the apps came with a specific device, what about those that purchased a device with those apps? We have a right to be using them as we see fit. When I bought my phone, I never signed anything that said that I couldnt theme the application if I wanted to. Google never made me sign a contract. And they couldnt, it would be ridiculous. What about people that purchased them on ebay or craigslist without a contract? They still bought the device and are the owner, and they certainly didnt have to agree not to modify any content. Is google going to go after every developer and every themer now too? Are they going to go after every end user who modified their content? It's just as illegal as making a rom that allows it to happen in the eyes of the law. Apple is attempting to do the same sort of crap with people jailbreaking the iphone. They're saying that even though you bought it, apple technically still owns it, so anything you do to it is illegal. Theres a huge legal debate going on over it right now and apple looks like theyre probably going to lose.
The safeguard they have in place is lack of root access. If you have root access yo have exploited a bug and are acting out of the designed use of the phone. You would not be able to backup or otherwise access these app files. Also, you would not be able to flash the new rom without root, which you gained by exploiting a bug.
Absolutely. But at the same time, the whole "exploiting a bug" argument is similarly null. If the bug never existed, two things would be true:
1. There would be no custom roms for end users, which Mr. Morrill says he supports and looks forward to seeing more of. This would be true since the idea of creating custom software would be idiotic as nobody would be able to install it. The only people utilizing the open-source framework would be major development houses, such as what creative is doing with the plazma stem-cell android that they're putting on the EGG. Application development has nothing to do with open source. The iPhone is not open source, but you can still develop apps for it.
2. The claim that they have about the free distribution of their intellectual property would hold merit, as it would be legitimate software piracy, instead of an unintended side effect of faulty design.
The first point is what makes this a farce. We, as developers, found a way to get custom software onto our devices, something which we were never intended to do. One of two things should have happened at that point: they should have let us continue to do it, which they did (closing the loophole could have been done, they could have found a way to prevent downgrading, seeing as there are no other OS options for the device) or they could have stopped it there and said that exploiting the bug is illegal. Its been a year since the device came out. This has been going on for a YEAR. You mean to tell me that this is an issue NOW and wasnt a year ago when it first started? Its only an issue because they're not the only game in town anymore. Ridiculous. Someone got their feathers ruffled and wanted to take out the little guy.
Ok, I am not going to keep replying to your endless wandering rebuttals. I feel you are wrong in who you are aiming your hate mail at and that is the end of the story.
Thats fine, and I do apologize for being excessively adamant about it. But I still feel I'm right. You only paint a target on yourself if you're prepared for people to shoot at you. Thats all I can say about it.
Darkrift said:
If Dell gives you a "free" copy of vista on your laptop, and then you buy a compaq with linux installed on it. Does that mean you have the right to install your "free" vista on the compaq also? It was free! How about you write a new windows shell and you bundle your free windows vista with it. And you also throw in your free copy of Office that came with it.
I understand their point and I realize these examples are not EXACT enough to matter, but the point does. They give you the apps for A SPECIFIC device and they give them to you with rules. Rules that we do not like.
I feel that they instead of C&D'ing him, should have had a little sit down with him. Said "hey, we realize you are doing a lot of good for us by promoting our product and giving those who want more what they ask for when we cannot, but we have some rules for you. A, you must make every attempt you can to make sure the roms you distribute go on authorized "With Google" devices. B, not release stuff you do not have permission to release." This would allow google to control what he releases enough to fit within the rules (keeps carriers from saying "hey, he can release your apps without paying, why cant we?"). They would also benefit from the many thousands of users who flock to these custom roms but realize they are unusable in their bare forms.
And so you do not have to, I will be the first to pull the term nazi out of my hat in this one
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About your dell giving you a "free" copy of vista. As long as that CD key is only used on one computer, you can use that CD key on ANY computer. Read their TOS. Your are wrong about a lot, but right about some. Changing the integrity of the windows shell is illegal, because that is microsoft property and NOT open source, but anytime you purchase an OS, or computer, you OWN that cd key of the software, all apps that come included as well. Could you try another example?
nice letter.
not so sure about the whole HTC (not "with google") phone thing- my magic is a HTC magic (32A) and it came will every single google app preinstalled on it.... not sure about hero though...
MontAlbert said:
nice letter.
not so sure about the whole HTC (not "with google") phone thing- my magic is a HTC magic (32A) and it came will every single google app preinstalled on it.... not sure about hero though...
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Hero did too.
Regards,
Dave
Hey everyone. I wanted to cleanup this post a bit in order to make a pretty big announcement. Here is an expcert from my blog post late last night. The whole post can be read here.
To read more about Android4Autism
"Tonight, I so very pleased to announce that Intellijoy will be donating FULL versions of ALL their children’s apps to Android4Autism to be distributed on all the devices that we will be putting into the hands of Autistic children from around the US. I’m very excited about this because I truly believe this WILL make a difference in the lives of many Autistic children and their families. I don’t make it a habit of promoting companies on this blog because that’s not the purpose of Lost and Tired. However, Intellijoy is a company that is working to help our children learn through engaging and entertaining apps. My children benefit from the use of these applications and I know many more could as well. As special needs parents and members of the Autism community we should support companies like, Intellijoy, as they are providing low cost software that can turn your Android powered smartphone into a learning tool for your child.
So on behalf of Android4Autism and lostandtired.com, I want to THANK Intellijoy for helping to improve the lives our Autistic children and their families. If you have an Android powered smart phone and I KNOW many of you do, check out these apps on the Market. Help spread the word that these apps and others like it can be found on the Android Market. As a community we need to support the companies that are providing resources for our kids….. More to come soon…"
In the mean time get all the latest Android4Autism updates by following us on twitter: @Android4Autism or “Like us on Facebook.
reserved....
Good luck on this.
Sounds like a great work you are doing.
So what exactly does the phone do? My son is autistic and believe it or not I let him play speedx on my evo but there aren't many apps on the market (if any) that are geared towards autistic people which is why he has his own ipad2. Some more specifics would be nice instead of saying that you are taking old android phones and stripping them down. What else is done to them software wise that makes them more autistic friendly and enriching.
lovethyEVO said:
So what exactly does the phone do? My son is autistic and believe it or not I let him play speedx on my evo but there aren't many apps on the market (if any) that are geared towards autistic people which is why he has his own ipad2. Some more specifics would be nice instead of saying that you are taking old android phones and stripping them down. What else is done to them software wise that makes them more autistic friendly and enriching.
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The point is that many people can't afford the iPad and yes the apple has better apps and more of them at the moment. However, there are still simple apps that can help kids to communicate, Voice4u is an example. There are other apps the help with fine motor like Kids Shape Puzzles, Kids Numbers and Math and Kids Colors. I'm not sure where your child falls on the spectrum but many kids like my youngest struggle with language and communication. While maybe some kids won't benefit from these apps as much as others it's something for someone who has nothing. The apps don't have to be geared towards Autistic kids. They just have to serve a purpose. My son who was thought to be non-verbal is now using words (although still very limited). When he solves these puzzles and the voice says the name, he now repeats it. He is also able to identify the shapes by the outlines now.
Is it as good as an iPad probably not. But as a father to 3 Autistic boys and someone that can't afford an iPad, this has really helped to build some much needed basic skills. These apps while simple are engaging and entertaining for the kids. Again, many people can't shell out $500-$800 for an iPad and this would give them something. Sometimes seemingly the small things can make the biggest impact.
I realize you don't know me but I have a very popular Autism blog and if you look around the Epic forums you will see Autism Awareness running rampant.
I'm not trying to change the world here. Just trying to make life better for those that I can.
Best of luck to you and your family.
newblacksociety said:
Best of luck to you and your family.
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You have my final "thanks" for today.
ptfdmedic said:
The point is that many people can't afford the iPad and yes the apple has better apps and more of them at the moment. However, there are still simple apps that can help kids to communicate, Voice4u is an example. There are other apps the help with fine motor like Kids Shape Puzzles, Kids Numbers and Math and Kids Colors. I'm not sure where your child falls on the spectrum but many kids like my youngest struggle with language and communication. While maybe some kids won't benefit from these apps as much as others it's something for someone who has nothing. The apps don't have to be geared towards Autistic kids. They just have to serve a purpose. My son who was thought to be non-verbal is now using words (although still very limited). When he solves these puzzles and the voice says the name, he now repeats it. He is also able to identify the shapes by the outlines now.
Is it as good as an iPad probably not. But as a father to 3 Autistic boys and someone that can't afford an iPad, this has really helped to build some much needed basic skills. These apps while simple are engaging and entertaining for the kids. Again, many people can't shell out $500-$800 for an iPad and this would give them something. Sometimes seemingly the small things can make the biggest impact.
I realize you don't know me but I have a very popular Autism blog and if you look around the Epic forums you will see Autism Awareness running rampant.
I'm not trying to change the world here. Just trying to make life better for those that I can.
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I wasn't trying to downplay your effort...it is a good cause. My son's autism affects his communication development the most and his ipad has helped along with his services he gets at school as well as his extra services like aba.
I did not buy his ipad so please throw out that notion that I can "shell out 500 bucks" for it. On the contrary, his ipad is his and his alone and was acquired as a learning aid through a program that his school set up. He qualified for the free ipad because his doctors re-evaluated him for the program application and concluded that he is still delayed in his development. As long as I show that his ipad is being used solely for his purposes and no unapproved apps are installed for the next two years, it's his to keep.
I'm straying off topic a bit and I apologize. I understand your cause to get these devices to families that can't afford them but it would also help to include some really great software for the autistic person as well as support for that software. These are just things to help your noble project along, not railroad it. It should be stripped of the ability to make calls or texts to try to prevent it being used by other persons for example.
lovethyEVO said:
I wasn't trying to downplay your effort...it is a good cause. My son's autism affects his communication development the most and his ipad has helped along with his services he gets at school as well as his extra services like aba.
I did not buy his ipad so please throw out that notion that I can "shell out 500 bucks" for it. On the contrary, his ipad is his and his alone and was acquired as a learning aid through a program that his school set up. He qualified for the free ipad because his doctors re-evaluated him for the program application and concluded that he is still delayed in his development. As long as I show that his ipad is being used solely for his purposes and no unapproved apps are installed for the next two years, it's his to keep.
I'm straying off topic a bit and I apologize. I understand your cause to get these devices to families that can't afford them but it would also help to include some really great software for the autistic person as well as support for that software. These are just things to help your noble project along, not railroad it. It should be stripped of the ability to make calls or texts to try to prevent it being used by other persons for example.
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No offense taken. Sorry if I came off harsh. I didn't mean to insinuate anything about you financial status in my comment. I was trying to explain my point. I would load a custom ROM, removing everything I can so that it serves it's intended purpose. I would disable to the radio and attempt to leave the WiFi and blue tooth in tact for connectivity to the market and headphones. I get offers all the time to review software on my blog geared for this purpose. I'm working on securing software donations as well. You have some great ideas. I appreciate your feedback. Again sorry if I came across wrong. We are both on the same journey. Best of luck.
ptfdmedic said:
No offense taken. Sorry if I came off harsh. I didn't mean to insinuate anything about you financial status in my comment. I was trying to explain my point. I would load a custom ROM, removing everything I can so that it serves it's intended purpose. I would disable to the radio and attempt to leave the WiFi and blue tooth in tact for connectivity to the market and headphones. I get offers all the time to review software on my blog geared for this purpose. I'm working on securing software donations as well. You have some great ideas. I appreciate your feedback. Again sorry if I came across wrong. We are both on the same journey. Best of luck.
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We are on the same journey yes, but you have alot more to handle and my hat goes off to you. I too apologize if I came off wrong in my first post.
I will be keeping my eye on your efforts for others that I know in our situation. The school year is almost over but I think this is something they might be interested in. Best of luck to your endeavors.
lovethyEVO said:
We are on the same journey yes, but you have alot more to handle and my hat goes off to you. I too apologize if I came off wrong in my first post.
I will be keeping my eye on your efforts for others that I know in our situation. The school year is almost over but I think this is something they might be interested in. Best of luck to your endeavors.
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Always nice to meet other special needs parents. It was a pleasure meeting you. Thanks again.
For those of you who don't know ptfdmedic, with all that he has to deal with his children, has over the months taken the time to develop and provide support for some of the best ROMs on the Epic. He is one of the few people who is a truly selfless person. I mean we over on the Epic forums have a bunch of people that just go around and complain about everything. Rob (ptfdmedic) has a heart of gold and has put up with a bunch of crap from a lot of whining users and does it with kindness and class. He even goes as far as releasing multiple versions of the same ROM to accommodate the minority of us who wanted journal on to provide stability and a journal off version for those who see a ever so slight performance increase. I came over here because I am considering getting an Evo 3D and wanted to read what people were posting now that the CEO confirmed it won't be boot locked. As soon as I saw ptfdmedic's thread, I knew it was for a worthy cause. He is the real deal. This isn't some guy trying to hustle anyone. His heart is 100% into raising Autism Awareness and helping in any way he can. If my finances permit me to upgrade to the Evo 3D, I know where my Epic is going now. If you are in the position to do likewise, I can assure you Rob will do what he intends to do. What a worthy cause.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA Premium App
ptfdmedic said:
Hey fellow Android users and Autism supporters. I have been quietly working on something for a little while now and decided I would officially announce it. I wanted to announce it here because of all the Autism support generated by this community. So I would like to introduce "Android 4 Autism. What Android 4 Autism will be doing is taking used (donated) Android devices, preferably Epic or EVO (due to the larger screen) and turning them into communication and learning tools for Autistic children. I'm working on securing software donations as well for pre-installation purposes.
Once received, the devices will be wiped and stripped down. Once completed, these devices will be donated to special needs families who couldn't otherwise afford this technology for their child.
The reason I'm announcing this now is because we are about to hit a device turn over with the release of the Nexus S 4G and the pending EVO 3D and Galaxy S 2 releases.. We are a community that lives on the bleeding edge. I'm asking that if and when you upgrade your phone that you consider Android 4 Autism when deciding what to do with your old device. Bad ESN's don't matter as WiFi/Bluetooth would be the only needed connections. PLEASE consider this if and when you decide to upgrade. I'll have more information available when I go live. I just wanted to plant the bug in your ear. Your old phone could change someone's life.
Thanks everyone....
Below is an example of what Autistic children can do and learn with these phones.
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You're doing a very noble thing ptf. It's amazing to see somebody take initiative in such a prolific cause. I don't know you personally, but you seem very genuine and i'm sure your family is blessed to have you supporting them.
You have my full support and I will gladly donate my EVO and Asus TF when I purchase new devices to replace them. I think that a lot of us on these forums are typically more fortunate than a lot of people and the least we can do is donate our old devices for a just cause.
p.s It seems that you are very serious about this, you should try to get the mods to sticky your threads. Also, are you going to be accepting donations from other devices like the droid x?
Best of luck to you. If you need any help spreading the word or anything shoot me a pm.
I know the HTC Flyer has the option to place the phone under "Kid Mode."
Maybe for those parents who may have a smartphone, it would be good to create a custom rom with that feature. That way they can use the phone as they normally would. Under this mode, the calls would be forwarded to a home phone line or another phone.
It seems like a lot of work and highly unlikely that parents will know how to flash a custom rom but it's an idea that came to me.
I'll get in contact with the Coordinator of Student Activities at my school and ask if I can host some sort of drive to have students donate their phones when they upgrade.
(I'll get back to you after she lets me know if I can)
Bumping this for the cause. I hope at least people read this or visit his website. Especially for those that are going to get an Evo 3D and not trade in their current phone. Hopefully I am one of them
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA Premium App
as an Uncle to a nephew with Autism, I commend you. I wish I had a spare device but I don't but if you could post some of the actual names of apps that you have used with your sons it would be greatly appreciated.
I want to help my sister get some good apps so her son can learn to communicate. He is pretty much mute and only barely communicates through signing. He is on the more severe end of the spectrum and like most families doesn't have the amount of money it takes to purchase the more expensive autism teaching tools.
On a side note besides grants and some education funding, getting assistance for autistic children is incredibly and overly expensive. With the immense amount of kids being diagnosed more and more I can't believe the price has not come down for some of these things.
That's pretty awesome. My son's a high functioning on the autistic spectrum and he loves to use my Evo and my Transformer pad. Seeing that video reminded me a lot of my son. It does really help and I really hope your cause takes off. Really commendable..
I actually wrote a piece for my website on my son using another technology: Kinect.
http://www.gamingnexus.com/FullNews...est-24150-I-spent-on-a-console/Item20369.aspx
Absolutely fantastic idea! I'll be sure to share this.
My nephew is autistic and I'm about to retire my Evo...I'd love to load your ROM when it's ready and give him my device.
I'm subscribing to this thread, because I want to follow everything you're doing with this cause.
God Bless You, dude. We need more people like you in this world, let alone this community...
as a father with a son who is autistic this is a GREAT idea ! /respect
Today, a couple posts in this thread gave me an idea...
jimmng said:
how about a 1k reward for 8.1 jailbreak?
community needs a bit of a push.
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mkwhater said:
lol are you going to donate that 1k?
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I haven't checked if starting this "project" on XDA would go against any forum rules, but let me try this...
Let's offer a crowd-funded "reward" to the first hacker who comes up with a WORKING jailbreak for Windows RT 8.1. It doesn't have to be "pretty" or polished, just good enough to provide the same functions as the 8.0 jailbreak!
As far as amassing the reward, I would need suggestions to keep it transparent and really entice all these devs and hackers out there...
What do you guys think??
TRSHD said:
Today, a couple posts in this thread gave me an idea...
I haven't checked if starting this "project" on XDA would go against any forum rules, but let me try this...
Let's offer a crowd-funded "reward" to the first hacker who comes up with a WORKING jailbreak for Windows RT 8.1. It doesn't have to be "pretty" or polished, just good enough to provide the same functions as the 8.0 jailbreak!
As far as amassing the reward, I would need suggestions to keep it transparent and really entice all these devs and hackers out there...
What do you guys think??
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Agreed.
I vow to put $50usd up
I like the idea, but I don't think it would help much. People have been working on this for months. Maybe you can convince them to work a little harder, but it's not like this is going to take the place of our day jobs ($1000 US is less than I make in one week, after taxes, for example; I've already put in more than 40 hours of effort myself and I'm far from the most as the majority of my effort goes to WP8).
For bounties like this to be effective, they need to either be large enough to motivate people to work on a long-term project when they would otherwise work on other things (possibly even on other paying activities), or the bounties need to be for small things that people can do in a few days max. As proposed, this is neither.
Don't get me wrong, if I could drop $50 to make a JB magically appear, I'd do it too. But, that's not how research works. Putting money into it - even "real" money, which this is not - doesn't guarantee faster results. It doesn't even guarantee *eventual* success; in this case I'm confident that we'll get it eventually, butI can't actually promise that.
I agree completely with GoodDayToDie, another problem isnt the money but some of the concepts are hard for us to wrap our heads around... Which means more time needs to be dedicated...
I understand your point, GoodDayToDie. This is the exact reason why I started this thread. If I could write code and understand the basics of hacking, I'd work on this myself. Unfortunately, I'm only a very advanced "end-user" that really can't wait for that JB.
As for the monetary compensation, your input is very appreciated. It's also why I didn't mention a specific amount for now. I just thought I should get that discussion going.
BTW, thank you for any and all time you dedicate to the JB!!
GoodDayToDie said:
I like the idea, but I don't think it would help much. People have been working on this for months. Maybe you can convince them to work a little harder, but it's not like this is going to take the place of our day jobs ($1000 US is less than I make in one week, after taxes, for example; I've already put in more than 40 hours of effort myself and I'm far from the most as the majority of my effort goes to WP8).
For bounties like this to be effective, they need to either be large enough to motivate people to work on a long-term project when they would otherwise work on other things (possibly even on other paying activities), or the bounties need to be for small things that people can do in a few days max. As proposed, this is neither.
Don't get me wrong, if I could drop $50 to make a JB magically appear, I'd do it too. But, that's not how research works. Putting money into it - even "real" money, which this is not - doesn't guarantee faster results. It doesn't even guarantee *eventual* success; in this case I'm confident that we'll get it eventually, butI can't actually promise that.
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Great idea!
What about to start project on kickstarter? (where everyone can donate what he can). I guess there are will be much more than 1K.
I think we can call it "extending" Surface 2 functionality.
Double-check whether KS (or any of the other crowdfunding sites) support such bounty projects. It's not usually how they're used and there may be a reason for that. I'd tend to say that doing it right on XDA isn't a great idea anyhow. There probably is a better option that you could link to from here, though.
That was my initial idea, I just don't think the 30-day timeframe is realistic. I'm still looking for an alternative that doesn't require a set date but that's still as transparent...
fakevs said:
Great idea!
What about to start project on kickstarter? (where everyone can donate what he can). I guess there are will be much more than 1K.
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Ok, I found two interesting alternatives: RocketHub and Quirky
Any suggestions?
GoodDayToDie said:
Double-check whether KS (or any of the other crowdfunding sites) support such bounty projects. It's not usually how they're used and there may be a reason for that. I'd tend to say that doing it right on XDA isn't a great idea anyhow. There probably is a better option that you could link to from here, though.
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Click to collapse
The suggestion wasn't "don't use KS", it was "make sure the site you use allows this kind of 'bounty' project". That still holds. I don't personally use much crowdfunding; I can't really recommend one site over another.
oooo this is good, I reckon something like kickstarter would work indeed. At least developers will be able to allocate more time than they are now, time is money my friends.
... I don't know what kind of job you have, but that's not how most jobs in the software world work. I[m salaried; I can't just ask for fewer hours because I have some other project to work on. That's even assuming that the other project (jailbreaking RT 8.1) paid out at all; maybe somebody else gets it first and I have nothing for that time? Maybe nobody ever manages it, and the money sits and languishes while we spend time on things that (according to you) we could be spending on something that makes money instead? Maybe (this one is actually really common) we have good jobs that pay well, but consume enough of our time that we don't *want* to spend our free time on something that feels like work?
A bounty project might get people to work on this when they might otherwise work on some other hobby or research. This would be valuable, and may be worth establishing a bounty for. But trust me, it's not going to make them "able to allocate more time than they are now". Not for something with no income while working and no guarantee of payout at the end. That's just not how the world works.