Database Users

Question about an invention...

Ok. I have this idea that could make millions of dollars if pitched correctly. This invention would work for the Kaiser and many other phone manufacterers but I'll just stick to WM platform for now. How would I be able to get developers to help out on it without the fear of it getting stolen?

I'm currently looking into getting a patent. Any recommendations other than that to safeguard my idea?

i guess you can never trust people in this kind of things. one thing you could do is to find some people that will sign some kind of contract and then make this contract official (find some lawyer to make this contract for you and approve it)

Thanks dude. I'm saving some money so I can hire a lawyer and get paperwork straight. This idea is genius and practical. I just needed the help of some genius developers too. Didn't want to spill the info but wanted some re-assurance.

I was thinking about something.
You hear people suing people over a song that they originally created. The funny thing is that the lawsuit comes up when the song becomes popular and rakes in millions. That's a smart thing. I mean if my idea ever got stolen. Anways any lawyers on this forum. Any idea of the cost of getting this into contract and patented?

if this idea of yours got anything to do with wm i guess you can find quality developers here on xda. just search and find developers that created software somehow related to your idea (same developing tools used, same environment...).
as for the costs, i got no idea and it depends on country you are in. but the costs can not exceed the profit if plans are realistic. so, all you need to know is how sure are you that the idea is good, possible to realize, has market and things like this. you also need to know that you must invest if you wan't to make a profit.
my advise to you is that you reconsider your idea and it's realism and then if you really believe in idea and yourself just go for it. the point is that you must be sure in what you are doing and do it in right time. as people say, time is money.
p.s.: i would suggest you to find some moderator and ask him to move this thread in some more relevant forum (some in general forums) as there you have more chance to get some reply

Here is what I would do first off -
I would describe the entire project and then mail it to myself registered mail and do NOT open the envelope. This will be your proof that you had the idea on this date as you describe it in the note.
Bill

whk said:
Here is what I would do first off -
I would describe the entire project and then mail it to myself registered mail and do NOT open the envelope. This will be your proof that you had the idea on this date as you describe it in the note.
Bill
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But this has absolutely no value in case you need to go to court.
What has is the date you file a patent application with a brief summary of the idea. The best is to to that ASAP. After that, you have about one year to formulate the exact patent text highlighting the exact key points that can apply for a patent (that are considered innovative) and that you want to protect. This will then have to be approved, and then (this can be months/years later) the patent is active and you can start suing potential copiers. BUT, the important point is that the date you filed the application on is the one that is valid in case someone else files another patent on the same subject, the one applying first wins. Note that nothing of it can be made public before this is done or everything is void.
It should cost a couple of thousand $ to get the application done, then once your patent is accepted the amount you need to pay depends on the number of countries you want to protect it in, and can reach $10k or more per country per year.
I have filed a patent application myself about 2 years ago, and that 1 year delay to file the definitive text was enough to convince me that the move was just useless. But my idea doesn't make millions anyway.
Personally for something that is software-based, as an individual, if the idea is really good and has a lot of potential I'd just file an application to have that first filing date in case really needed, but I guess I wouldn't go further. The problem is above - you need to choose the countries the idea is protected in. For software, if you don't go worldwide then all it would take to someone wanting to copy you would be to open an office in one of the countries you didn't list and start spreading his copy from there without you being able to do anything against it, but still having paid the patent a fair lot that is now lost...
Note that all of this is my experience and what I've learned from it - I'm no lawyer and you should still ask advice from one to take the right decisions. It's valid for international protection, if you're in the US and want to file a US only patent things are simpler and go faster from what I've heard.

kilrah said:
But this has absolutely no value in case you need to go to court...snip...
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Very little has any value in court.
I have spent $60,000.00 defending software written by me. It was obvious that the person violating the software had deeper pockets than we did and could simply tie us up in legal maneuvers forever - we simply had to quit prosecuting.
Bill

I have run my own company for 30 years. Now let me get this straight, you have an idea but want everyone else to develop it for you, so you can make millions. Does that sum it up?
People only steal and misappropriate when they feel (rightly/wrongly) that they are getting taken advantage of to line someone else's pockets.
"I deserve all the money because it was my idea," doesn't cut it. Make people feel they are helping themselves as much as you. Give them a fair share and they will work hard and be honest.
Now before you nay sayers start telling me I live in a fantasy world, as I said up front ,I've been doing it for thirty years.
Oh yeah, and keep a real good eye on the Ledgers.

gqstatus0685 said:
Thanks dude. I'm saving some money so I can hire a lawyer and get paperwork straight. This idea is genius and practical. I just needed the help of some genius developers too. Didn't want to spill the info but wanted some re-assurance.
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Hire someone.

Ok. I wasn't saying that I was going to get all the money. Obviosly If I hired some developers from this site I would state in contract what the terms would be and what everyone's share would be. I'd doubt a developer would work on a project blindly without knowing what they were going to get out of it. I just wanted information and once I get all this sorted out then I can speak on the project. It is for windows mobile and could be used by millions of people in different professions.

Looking for a developer to help with an app idea

I hope this isn't prohibited by forum rules - if it is, please notify me and I will request that the thread be closed.
Problem is, I'm not a developer. I would love to be one, but I've tried my hand at it in the past and am old enough to know my limitations...coding is one of them.
I'm looking for someone with app development experience who would be willing to develop my idea into an app in exchange for some equity in the finished product.
If you know how to develop apps, are looking for an interesting app to develop, and would consider investing development work for equity, please PM me.
Thanks, and I hope this post does not offend anyone or break any rules.

If you state your idea, you're more likely to get a response.

I get the impression the OP thinks their idea is too valuable to be publicly disclosed. I'd be surprised if anyone took up such an offer - essentially they get to do all the work in return for the idea & 'some equity' in the finished product. Even if you could first establish you have a history of creating marketable ideas I'd not rate your chances.
If someone has a project they want implementing they're more than likely going to need to offer a fee, not merely a percentage. Sites such as Elance provide a means to match up projects with programmers - btw I have no connection to them; I just googled android project proposals bids.
In any case, if you have no money to finance such a project, you probably won't even have the resources to draw up a legally binding contract, so good luck enforcing any arrangements you might come up with.
TBH the OP's best bet is either learn to code & do it themself, or as atolar suggests, make the idea public & hope if anyone bothers with the idea that they're willing to let them have a (small) share of any resulting equity.
[Edit:] BTW I'd be interested to be proved wrong. If the OP finds someone willing to carry out their work, I hope they'll let us know.

cauli said:
I get the impression the OP thinks their idea is too valuable to be publicly disclosed. I'd be surprised if anyone took up such an offer - essentially they get to do all the work in return for the idea & 'some equity' in the finished product. Even if you could first establish you have a history of creating marketable ideas I'd not rate your chances.
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I don't mean to come across that way. Understand that the one person who replied got the full idea without any sort of upfront requirements.
If someone has a project they want implementing they're more than likely going to need to offer a fee, not merely a percentage. Sites such as Elance provide a means to match up projects with programmers - btw I have no connection to them; I just googled android project proposals bids.
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I've paid for development projects before, and understand the industry. But I have to look at other options for this idea. I've hired people looking for development experience in the past, some of whom were willing to take a stake in the idea...just thought I'd float it here.
In any case, if you have no money to finance such a project, you probably won't even have the resources to draw up a legally binding contract, so good luck enforcing any arrangements you might come up with.
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Luckily (or unluckily haha), I'm a lawyer, so I have the transactional stuff covered.
TBH the OP's best bet is either learn to code & do it themself, or as atolar suggests, make the idea public & hope if anyone bothers with the idea that they're willing to let them have a (small) share of any resulting equity.
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I wish I could learn code - unfortunately I spent 7 years learning a completely different field of study, and am too old and not nearly smart enough to pick up coding in any way that would produce quality software. I've tried, and had to be honest with myself and admit that coding is not tailored for a brain like mine.
[Edit:] BTW I'd be interested to be proved wrong. If the OP finds someone willing to carry out their work, I hope they'll let us know.
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Only one person has replied, and he felt that he didn't have the experience to execute the idea. You sound as if you are experience with android - I'd be happy to PM you with the idea so that you can at least tell me if it's something worth pursuing. Willing to hear the idea out and provide some feedback?
Thanks, and take care.

androidlurker said:
Luckily (or unluckily haha), I'm a lawyer, so I have the transactional stuff covered.
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Lol, that is fortunate. I'm sure you'll appreciate the mess someone less experienced could get into.
Only one person has replied, and he felt that he didn't have the experience to execute the idea. You sound as if you are experience with android - I'd be happy to PM you with the idea so that you can at least tell me if it's something worth pursuing. Willing to hear the idea out and provide some feedback?
Thanks, and take care.
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Thanks for the detailed reply. It's always interesting to read of others' experience & involvement in development. Alas I'm not an experienced Android dev myself, though I do have a background in programming (mostly C, going back a couple of decades, but nothing recent).
I've only started to get interested in Android since buying an HTC Hero about a month ago. It is an appealing platform though; I plan on brushing up my somewhat lacking Java skills & dabbling a little but it will be a good while before I'm up to speed.
I hope you find someone who can take your ideas further forward & that if you do, you'll let us know how it goes. Feel free to PM me if you still feel my feedback might be of use to you. Either way, best of luck

cauli said:
I hope you find someone who can take your ideas further forward & that if you do, you'll let us know how it goes. Feel free to PM me if you still feel my feedback might be of use to you. Either way, best of luck
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Someone has offered to take on the project. I will update with development progress and information as I get it.
Thanks for the interest folks!

HD2 Services On Craigslist

Browsing through Craigslist for an HD2 I came across multiple posts of people that are offering to upgrade the HD2 to winmo 6.5.x or Android for a fee of anywhere from $30-$60 dollars. I don't think it's right for people to be making a profit from something that they did not create. I highly doubt that they are taking part of the fee that they charge and donating it to the developers for their work. I've been flagging their posts in hopes that they get removed and will post information as to how to do install Androids themselves for free. I don't know if it's appropriate to ask you to do the same in your local cities and encourage the public to donate to the developers themselves instead of paying the $30-$60 dollars to someone that has done nothing to earn them except for ripping off the work of someone else. If I was a chef and stayed up for countless hours, missed family time and what not and found out that someone was making money off my work, i'd be livid. Just wanted to make you guys aware of a situation that is unacceptable.

I don't personally feel that by offering to set someones phone up with all the bells and whistles for a fee is wrong.
If a person doesn't feel like reading up and spending time learning how to setup their phone and wants to pay someone to do it for them that is there choice.
Saying that the person setting the phone up for them isn't right because they are collecting a fee to set up "open source" and freely distributed software onto there phone to save someone who is busy and doesn't have the time to spend hours reading on this forum to accomplish this is just silly.
Yeah all us phone junkies who don't have anything else better to do then sit on XDA and read and learn about our (hobby) for hours on end may seem normal to you and I but a HUGE portion of people do not have the time or wish to waste time on this when they can pay someone to have a tricked out phone to show off at the office.
And beyond that..the economy is in the toilet. People are trying to make a buck any possible way they can to feed themselves.
I have been buying HD2's when I see them cheap on craigslist and bringing them home, tricking them out and then reselling them for $100 to $150 profit for awhile now.
it has kicked in some extra income nicely helping buy kids school cloths, wife a nice dinner, etc etc
Just my two cents.
18.4009

marduk79 said:
Browsing through Craigslist for an HD2 I came across multiple posts of people that are offering to upgrade the HD2 to winmo 6.5.x or Android for a fee of anywhere from $30-$60 dollars. I don't think it's right for people to be making a profit from something that they did not create. I highly doubt that they are taking part of the fee that they charge and donating it to the developers for their work. I've been flagging their posts in hopes that they get removed and will post information as to how to do install Androids themselves for free. I don't know if it's appropriate to ask you to do the same in your local cities and encourage the public to donate to the developers themselves instead of paying the $30-$60 dollars to someone that has done nothing to earn them except for ripping off the work of someone else. If I was a chef and stayed up for countless hours, missed family time and what not and found out that someone was making money off my work, i'd be livid. Just wanted to make you guys aware of a situation that is unacceptable.
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+1... Unless these guys are giving donations to the chefs. These guys are also a lot here in Florida. That's why I also give an ad offering a FREE help in putting Android on their HD2.

Very much not trying to start a flame war here because I believe people have the right to do as they please...
But you must have some serious time on your hands to post on craigslist for free services. I need to reinstall my notebook, would you knock that out for me?
Just giving you a hard time.
But on the other issue you brought up. I personally donate to chefs who are elite and really drive some innovation with fixing issues, be it on the vibrant, HD2, nexus, etc. I own and follow six different phones and follow the serious chefs for those products. and kick into the beer fund from time to time. Again just like some who spend there time fixing up a phone for someone who doesn't feel like learning it themselves is really no different then people grabbing roms from here and throwing it on their phones. they technically (could) read, learn and create roms for there own personal use but they rather have someone who is a little smarter do it for them and if they are feeling generous they may kick in a couple bucks as a thank you.
People "don't" have to pay to get their phone tricked out but if they dont feel like spending the time learning it then hell....why not make a buck doing it for them.
18.4009

If we lived in a perfect world sure it would be great if they gave part of the profit to the original devs, but we dont and honestly if it get more people into Android is that a bad thing? Most noobs cant even figure out how to put widgets on their screen(had to help a lady do that) so there is no way they can do it themselves even if to us its easy so why not make them happy and the geek can make a little cash. But I agree donating a little to the devs would be the nice thing to do.

All of you have some very valid points. I just found it frustrating that the dev's would see no money from their own product. At the very least what can happen is that the dev's get introduced to other groups of people who in turn may come here, learn to flash their own rom and eventually donate.

CL service providers
I agree with both perspectives on this issue.
a. Yes, there are sereral ppl providing such services
b. Yes, there are several students openly stating they learned how to do this and will do this for you for pizza money (Like $10-$15, so much for big business ideas)
c. Yes, the ppl doing this should donate to devs periodically.
d. Yes, there are several youtube videos out there showing step by step instructions on how to do the upgrades.
e. Yes, several so called craigslist experts end up bricking customer's phones, leave with buggy setups, incorrect radios, robotic voices :-D
I think its best for devs to continue their hard work for the community that appreciates and benefits from their work is far larger than the select few who go K2. The donations will continue to pour in as the development reaches to immaculate full-featured build solutions. At which point, the devs could consider options for official sales of their roms and android builds.

Project

I just hope this is the right place to post this, as I do not intend to misuse this forum, it has been very helpful to me over the past few years and I love seeing what yall come out with. That being said here is what I am proposing.
I am looking for some people who know how to build apps for android. As well apps for windows. ( pick whatever programing language you like we just need it to work) I can not pay anyone, but if a small team of people will join me and help get my ideas built as a team I believe we will become successful in the first prototype of what will be the future of cell phones.
I don't get to check the forum often so please reach me via email [email protected]
thank you all for taking the time to read this.

When you say "apps for windows" are you suggesting applications for Windows Phone OS or Windows OS (as in the OS that runs on PCs)?
People will find it hard to work without getting paid and they definitely don't want to work on an idea without getting paid that wont take off so I suggest you give some hints about what your idea is to let people make a better decision?

camp sheckbo
Thanks for the response, and I should have clarified that. Sorry. I was referring to Windows os for pc. I can completely understand people not wanting to work for free as what I am asking I imagine will be quite some work and most likely quite a bit of testing. I have to admit I am apprehensive about just laying any part of my idea out there but for the sake of giving everyone a vague idea of what I have in mind ( please forgive grammar and spelling at this point) is google glass but trust me when I say far better then google. and for now we aren't even building the "phone part" the app on both the phone and its counterpart on the pc should be generic in the sense that any android phone & windows pc user can use the prototype once it is done. Then we shop it around with the concept for the new phone. anyone willing to know more please just shoot me an email. I realize yall don't know what it is yet but I am convinced if made this product would make those involved if not as big as google then pretty close (maybe not in terms of there money but in terms on the name)
Brand is everything.

You could ask here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2349036

Re
nikwen said:
You could ask here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2349036
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Thank you for the feedback. I will be checking it out.

A developer, looking for collaboraion
Hi Guys,
I am a long time developer for Android, iOS, BB etc with bunch of apps on the app stores, some dead on arrival, some successful, nothing like the next Bill Gates tho . Apps development is side job for me "for now", I am sure you know the feeling.
I guess what I am looking for here is somewhat the opposite to most of the posts here, where folks with amazing ideas looking for developers to "just make it happen". I have bunch of ideas, as well! (too many to count some for apps and some for other areas - chemistry, physics etc). I am looking for *developers* to work and collaborate, basically to brain storm and run through their ideas and my ideas, take our time to proper research and figure out business model, patents etc, maybe throw few baits in apps stores and see where it's going.
My thinking is that if bunch of us developers get together we stand a chance, I find it close to impossible to do it alone..
Of course we can sign all NDAs required etc to make everyone happy. I hope I did not violate any written or conceptual guidelines here.. please feel free to contact me, [email protected]
Thanks!
Udi

udihamudi said:
Hi Guys,
I am a long time developer for Android, iOS, BB etc with bunch of apps on the app stores, some dead on arrival, some successful, nothing like the next Bill Gates tho . Apps development is side job for me "for now", I am sure you know the feeling.
I guess what I am looking for here is somewhat the opposite to most of the posts here, where folks with amazing ideas looking for developers to "just make it happen". I have bunch of ideas, as well! (too many to count some for apps and some for other areas - chemistry, physics etc). I am looking for *developers* to work and collaborate, basically to brain storm and run through their ideas and my ideas, take our time to proper research and figure out business model, patents etc, maybe throw few baits in apps stores and see where it's going.
My thinking is that if bunch of us developers get together we stand a chance, I find it close to impossible to do it alone..
Of course we can sign all NDAs required etc to make everyone happy. I hope I did not violate any written or conceptual guidelines here.. please feel free to contact me, [email protected]
Thanks!
Udi
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Click to collapse
You can ask in this thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2349036
Another possibility would be making it open-source.

We'll be happy to make it open source when we actually get to work on something
I will be happy to make "it" open source when I finally get to work on something exciting .. need to figure out first what it is thus first step before this need to get together with some bright minds here and decide what we want to work on.. then get it to format where folks can look at and work with as open source
nikwen said:
You can ask in this thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2349036
Another possibility would be making it open-source.
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udihamudi said:
I will be happy to make "it" open source when I finally get to work on something exciting .. need to figure out first what it is thus first step before this need to get together with some bright minds here and decide what we want to work on.. then get it to format where folks can look at and work with as open source
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Of course, you need an idea. Check the thread I linked. You might find an idea there.
For example you could join the WidgetsEverywhere project. It's working and it's open-source.

[Q] Finding a mobile phone focused hardware engineer?

Hello,
I'm not sure if this is the best place for this post, but it's the smartest, and largest android based community I know
I wanted to know where would be the best place for me to look for a hardware engineer. The caveat would be I need to find someone willing to talk a bit first before actually being paid. I need the help of one so I can make a more sound mock-up of what I'm doing and planning prices before talking to the VCs I have contacts for. That said, I COULD always find a way to basically hire a hardware engineer for consulting but I would really want to find a hardware engineer somewhat as passionate as I am about quality and creativity forward thinking. I already have a few software teams in mind to ask but will only do so once I have the funding.
So my question to you at XDA, where would I go about doing this? I should also mention the engineer I would look for would need to know about mobile phones. The thing is, I CAN start prototyping and the funding process using generic insides from a chinese phone BUT the end goal for me is custom hardware with the utmost care and quality put into it. So I would basically be lying to VCs (which let's be honest, everyone does) but then I would be delayed in having a hardware engineer still, and I'd rather have as much time to get the ball rolling as possible. Hell even if the hardware engineer could give advice on the future and pricing but says going with chinese insides until the money comes in would work.
I just have no idea where to find one, craigslist, ask around from friends, post at a certain website? Luckily what I will be doing for the next year shouldn't take the engineer more than a couple hours a week if even. So for quite a few months it should be pretty low key for them if they wanted to keep doing whatever job they were doing until I could afford to hire them full time. In about 6 months I want to start the prototyping to have early look units available for reviewers by November/December of this year.
Thank you for taking the time to read and help! If anyone is curious without saying too much I am looking towards making a pure android ubuntu edge quality phone, but most likely higher quality. The end goal is to use the main funding to make a phone directly aimed at the wants of you guys at XDA, but that's at least a year or so away sadly, and first things first.

iytrix said:
Hello,I'm not sure if this is the best place for this post, but it's the smartest, and largest android based community I know I wanted to know where would be the best place for me to look for a hardware engineer. The caveat would be I need to find someone willing to talk a bit first before actually being paid.
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You're in San Jose!! They grow on trees there! Just get some kid on the street and half their family will be HW engineers.
Anyway, this is the right place, but you are basically saying that they should "talk" to you, for free, for a while. So I doubt anyone would come forward. At least that's my experience in reading and seeing similar posts here in the last 2 years. Why would someone with the know how, risk spending months talking HW details, just to find him/herself abandoned?
You're project seem very noble and tasty, but we have to repackage it with some better incentives.

E:V:A said:
You're in San Jose!! They grow on trees there! Just get some kid on the street and half their family will be HW engineers..
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Hahahaha! So true! I remember when I first was looking to move out with a roommate almost EVERYONE was an "engineer" of some sort.
In hindsight I shouldn't have deleted the quote to respond. I think I remember all of what you said.
Yeah I understand that fully. This has just been an idea brewing in my head for about 3 or so years and my original plan was to befriend someone that was a hardware engineer and after building trust and enthusiasm start working on things. Me personally, I would do all of this for no profit on my part. Do I want it? Yes, but I only care about food, living, car payments, and getting this project rolling. I would like to work with people passionate enough about this to have a close mindset, but I realize that's not realistic, especially since it's my idea I'm asking people to believe in enough to work for it.
I think what I will probably have to do is, once I get enough stuff written up to present to an engineer to entice them on the project, also get some contract ready that promises them some share in things. The only thing is that could get very messy, and I would also need to add some more binding things so that they couldn't just leave on their own and take some profits, but I know I will need SOME way to entice people to want to work on this beyond just showing them the plan and idea.
I'm also trying to get in the more professional mindset. Making new company named emails and profiles so when I talk to people it's not just from a personal account. For XDA though I assumed people would take a senior member a lot more seriously than a brand new account though.
Are you from the Bay Area as well or do you just know of it? I find it weird that in this area people want to know investors and have their teams. I am in the opposite position where I have no team but have investors I am able to get a meeting with.
As a side note, a main reason why this turned from an idea to a thing that I HAD to do is I was getting fed up with all the phones that are coming out. There are many markets and categories missing from phones and I am hoping I can be the one to fill the gaps. I see tons of complaints online on various aspects of phones and so few companies seem to listen. Then once in a while a phone seems to be close to perfect and then the company doesn't ever come close again or removes wanted features. My only real fear is if the market moves too fast with some proprietary tech. But seeing as we've had bendable screens for...what 3 years now and the most we've gotten is slightly curved phones no one likes? I hope to change that, to get people more interested and caring for their phones.

Just figure out where they hang out online, and post...
You could post wherever idle HW engineers go to look for jobs too.
And there is no such thing as an "unemployed engineer".... They're (we're) consultants / contractors in between assignments, LOL.

mikereidis said:
Just figure out where they hang out online, and post...
You could post wherever idle HW engineers go to look for jobs too.
And there is no such thing as an "unemployed engineer".... They're (we're) consultants / contractors in between assignments, LOL.
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That's why I'm here to see if anyone knew where they went to hang out online haha. How would I go about that? Like a site or forums that's like a github for engineers instead of coders (although github is more pure code.....stack overflow I should say, but I think I make enough sense).
Haha! That seems very true. I'm sure I could find one to help me at least get the planning done but I would love to find one who wants to see this project through and through, and stay on for the full production of the phones, and the other ones I plan on making in the following years if this one succeeds.
Oh and, since from what you've said you SEEM to be a hardware engineer, how would I go about asking for the right kind? Could anyone with a degree or knowledge be able to easily adapt to making phones properly, or would I need to ask for one with a certain specialty? If so, what's the official term for the specialty?