Related
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...Track=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:middle:us
I came across this looking for an 8525, it seems that he may be using the FREE programs available on here. I would say whoever created them go after this guy because it's obviously not fair he is using what you created to profit without you getting anything for it. I'm not 100% sure if he is use the programs from here, but I mean how many Sim/CID unlock program are really out there for the 8525?
I just reported the item to ebay, this is JJ's stuff and other members hard work.
Lurch3559 said:
I just reported the item to ebay, this is JJ's stuff and other members hard work.
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Click to collapse
maybe a copy of SPL-****er will be worming its way to him... nothing to do with me of course ^_^
You're welcome guys .
Yeah thats a bunch of bull****. i was looking on ebay the other day for a broken wizard and i saw someone selling a program that would load farias wm6 rom onto their phone. I reported that **** right away. There are so many people on here that are so talented and make so much awesome programs and not charge us a dime for it, but then you got dicks like that guy who decides to profit off of other peoples hard work. Death to that ****er.
Really classy how he was going to put commercial video game ROMs onto the phone/memory card too.
Not only was this guy trying to rip off the individuals here at XDA-dev, but also large corporations as well...
S-M-R-T
chenga said:
Really classy how he was going to put commercial video game ROMs onto the phone/memory card too.
Not only was this guy trying to rip off the individuals here at XDA-dev, but also large corporations as well...
S-M-R-T
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I asked him about the programs and whether he developed them or not, here is the response I got:
"no not personally, but do talk to some of the developers and i donate some of my profit to them. any other questions feel free to ask
thanx
nate"
"i do cook my own roms if thats what you are asking, and just recieved an email asking me to remove this service and aparently reported to ebay, so i will not be able to offer this service at this time
sry
nate"
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Click to collapse
Good Catch myztikal47.
I guess we can all help the developers here by keeping an eye out for this kind of crap.
I think it wouldn't be a bad Idea to have a sticky on this topic, something with an eye catching title, so more are aware of this issue, so as to be looking out for stinking thieves at places like ebay or craigslist.
I think it was only a question of time. There is no way how to block this. He can use new account, new name or whatever. we have similar problem on our forum, it is strictly technical forum about repairing TV, radio, video, SAT, PC... and we also have big storage with service manuals, service tips and few guys from us steal this infos from us and trying to profit on these! those information have price of gold, but is no help to stop this. So we decide for higher security, for restriction who can download files, and vice-versa etc. but here is not so easy I think, this will kill this forum.
wow he even had a picture of JJ rom on the page thats the lowest of low stealing and turning anround and making a profit off of it... His address is at the bottom of the page if anyone wants to send him a thank you card!
sinmae said:
I think it was only a question of time. There is no way how to block this. He can use new account, new name or whatever. we have similar problem on our forum, it is strictly technical forum about repairing TV, radio, video, SAT, PC... and we also have big storage with service manuals, service tips and few guys from us steal this infos from us and trying to profit on these! those information have price of gold, but is no help to stop this. So we decide for higher security, for restriction who can download files, and vice-versa etc. but here is not so easy I think, this will kill this forum.
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Click to collapse
I don't think I take such a gloomy view. I agree it is impossible to stop someone selling a service and it is not in the spirit of this forum to sell either advice or cooked ROMs etc. But to play "devil's advocate" for a minute, what is it we object to? Is it that these folk are making money? Is it the lack of acknowledgement to the people who have put in all the development work? Is it the danger that selling this type of thing brings unwanted attention from M$ and telecom service providers?
I personally don't object to someone selling their time to help someone who lacks knowledge though they should tell the customer that they could learn for free from this site. If someone offered me cash to help them flash a ROM I don't think I'd feel guilty if I accepted money to do it. (Though I never have!).
I feel the main reason to block this kind of activity is that we already have unwanted attention from the likes of M$ without being associated with the sale of a service that relys on what M$ consider to be illegally altered M$ material. The very act of selling the service will bring a much harder approach from M$ IMO. No longer would we we seen as a bunch of keen dedicated geeky amateurs, but people out to profit illegally from M$ original work.
I notice on a brighter note that the two cases of this I am aware of are no longer available through ebay. In one case the individual has withdrawn the service and the other was removed by ebay.
EDIT: One of them is BACK
As a warning to others who might follow - selling a service or ROMs in this very public way is almost certainly illegal, particularly if bundled with a whole lot of other commercial games etc. If you want to take on the M$ legal team then this is a good way to go about it - remember it's not just the developers here that are not giving permission it is M$ original work that is being made available in a "corrupted" form.
Mike
This guy is back! But in a different flavor. I just found this today on eBay:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/CINGULAR-8525-HT...ryZ64355QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
He is WAAAAYYY overcharging on this phone. His justification? 1) the free upgrades found on this site, and 2) a CD of cracked illegal software.
And I fell sorry for this buyers who fell for his iPhone upgrade scam:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/HTC-CINGULAR-812...ryZ64355QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.ca/HTC-CINGULAR-812...ryZ64355QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I can't believe people fell for that!
this isnt that much different from offering a service to fix phones that users have broken. IE i upgraded to windows mobile 6 and now it doesnt turn on.
yes hes selling other peoples work but really the people that pay him arnt paying him for the software they are paying him for the knowledge he has gained from reading
i would offer a repair service for noobs but theres allready people doing it.
its actually no different to taking a black rom and not donating then complaining about it
tallshorty said:
And I fell sorry for this buyers who fell for his iPhone upgrade scam:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/HTC-CINGULAR-812...ryZ64355QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.ca/HTC-CINGULAR-812...ryZ64355QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I can't believe people fell for that!
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Click to collapse
What is to say those buyers are not M$ trying to get the individuals information and then suing him later? Just a thought...
IMO it's fine for him to sell phone with the software pre-loaded on them already, thats like anyone on here selling their phone with all the hacks already done....but to actually have a service to install the software on the phone and profit from that, and not pay the people who created the software...well thats illegal, someone should just report him to Microsoft, they'll have a field day with him lol.
myztikal47 said:
IMO it's fine for him to sell phone with the software pre-loaded on them already, thats like anyone on here selling their phone with all the hacks already done....but to actually have a service to install the software on the phone and profit from that, and not pay the people who created the software...well thats illegal, someone should just report him to Microsoft, they'll have a field day with him lol.
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Click to collapse
I agree with you on that but look at how much higher he is selling the phone because of the free softwares. It's the same as offering the service, basically.
he must need some money to be doing this...this guy must be a crack addict...or meth...yeah probably meth addict, anyways
I'm saddened to see stuff like this go on...coupled with these annoying noobs flooding the forums, m$ being ever so watchful, and the eventuality of newer devices...the great people of XDA might just get turned off from all of this...i know some are already extremely annoyed
...only time will tell
I have a close personal friend that works for Microsoft in their Windows Mobile team and I am going to forward this thread as well as the links to the ebay auctions over to him.
mikechannon said:
I don't think I take such a gloomy view. I agree it is impossible to stop someone selling a service and it is not in the spirit of this forum to sell either advice or cooked ROMs etc. But to play "devil's advocate" for a minute, what is it we object to? Is it that these folk are making money? Is it the lack of acknowledgement to the people who have put in all the development work? Is it the danger that selling this type of thing brings unwanted attention from M$ and telecom service providers?
I personally don't object to someone selling their time to help someone who lacks knowledge though they should tell the customer that they could learn for free from this site. If someone offered me cash to help them flash a ROM I don't think I'd feel guilty if I accepted money to do it. (Though I never have!).
I feel the main reason to block this kind of activity is that we already have unwanted attention from the likes of M$ without being associated with the sale of a service that relys on what M$ consider to be illegally altered M$ material. The very act of selling the service will bring a much harder approach from M$ IMO. No longer would we we seen as a bunch of keen dedicated geeky amateurs, but people out to profit illegally from M$ original work.
I notice on a brighter note that the two cases of this I am aware of are no longer available through ebay. In one case the individual has withdrawn the service and the other was removed by ebay.
EDIT: One of them is BACK
As a warning to others who might follow - selling a service or ROMs in this very public way is almost certainly illegal, particularly if bundled with a whole lot of other commercial games etc. If you want to take on the M$ legal team then this is a good way to go about it - remember it's not just the developers here that are not giving permission it is M$ original work that is being made available in a "corrupted" form.
Mike
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will point out a couple of things wrong with this Mike... 1. He is using JJ's roms and i highly doubt JJ is getting any kind of kickback. 2. His ebay username nateshuntsvegas is the same as on here. That alone could very well attract some negative attention as if M$ havent given us a hard time the way it is.
the rest of it i agree with
shogunmark said:
I will point out a couple of things wrong with this Mike... 1. He is using JJ's roms and i highly doubt JJ is getting any kind of kickback. 2. His ebay username nateshuntsvegas is the same as on here. That alone could very well attract some negative attention as if M$ havent given us a hard time the way it is.
the rest of it i agree with
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Click to collapse
I don't disagree with your comment, but as JJ's work is freely available for folk to download it's impossible to stop anyone selling services to install it. But yes the negative attention of M$ (linked as it is to here) is certainly not what we want. If we are seen by M$ to be set against any moves to sell this kind of material or a service to install it I'm sure this will improve their view of us.
Mike
This community is so damn innovative and cooperative, it amazes me what software/ROMS get cooked here which really add a lot of productivity value to me, transforming a tedious, hard-to-read Windows Mobile User Interface into a tool that really works on the go. And I've been equally impressed by the collaborative spirit of this community in problem solving and feature tweeks.
Thus I am curious if there is an organized policy here that helps us end-users deter the scammers who grab software from XDA-developers, bundle it, and sell it across the web. I'm speaking of a prominent spot on the home page and within the information design of these forums that, just like the "Missing Kids" alerts on milk cartons, highlights prominently the latest scammers stealing work here.
I understand this forum is for actual development, but truth is this issue gets lost in "General" forums. Because it's the people who hack here who are the people being hurt directly.
Though I signed onto XDA over a year ago, and have read volumes re my T-mobile MDA and software upgrades here, I ended up being nonetheless too nervous to follow the very clear instructions posted last year with all if the various WM 6 roms developed here. And I never did upgrade.
But I have a WING now, and I wanted an iphone theme and user interface. Again I read all the sticky threads for the Herald, as well as the links from the wiki for that specific phone. After several days of trying to figure out "should I be first flashing my T-mobile ROM to a more efficient one, before then seeking to install one of the iphone themes and apps like A_C's S2U2 etc. I then did a dumb consumer thing: when searching this site using Google, I followed the links to one or two of the GOOGLE AD-WORDS hawking an iPhone theme on your PocketPC.
Long story short, I got scammed of $10 for something that was outdated and didn't even install properly on my WING... But I'd been "comforted" by the presentation on their website, http://iphonethemeforpocketpc.com , thinking I would get my head cleared of the confusion that mounts when I'd dig down deep into the many discussions of so many ROMs & themes & apps here. I got burned, that was bad enough. But it then pissed me off doubly that superior software would be found here at XDA -- and more than likely some of that guy's component cab files were simply stolen from developers right here.
I ended up back here and successfully installed the ifonz theme, A_C's S2U2 (the scam site had an old slide2unlock version... bit as everyone here knows, A_C's app is superb. I also installed Contact Manager (amazing!), PCM keyboard (what an improvement over windows), and MortPlayer (fantastic). I intend to donate to each program author.
But the purpose of this post is this: I filed a dispute with PayPal (requires login) over this scammer's non-working product and absolute refusal to even reply to my early "friendly" emails seeking install help. Went through PayPal's Resolution Center "escalation process" -- after no reply from the seller to PayPal -- and my dispute became a CLAIM for Paypal to determine outcome. PayPal's reply, denying the claim, states that they reviewed all communications and investigated the issue fully (totally not true).
I could have stopped there -- afterall i'd long ago expended way more than $10 worth of my time -- but it was for the principle of it. So I called PayPal, went through all the menu-options, screenings, and hold queues, and finally spoke to an actual Resolution Agent -- who was very nice, & actually very helpful.
However: I learned then, from her, what many of you may already know -- but I wonder DOES everyone know?, because I sure didn't... She told me that anything digital or downloadable is not even covered with any Buyer Protection as disclosed in PayPal's terms of service. So the claim got closed automatically because it didn't qualify for any dispute resolution. I was really surprised by this, that no downloadable software is subject to dispute/resolution policies -- and that's why I am writing this thread, as a service (I *hope*) to all you developers.
I first did a search here on the boards for "scams", because I wanted to find a place on this site to DISPLAY CLEARLY---> Here is a scamsite --> make sure your stuff is not being sold there. That's when I saw this sampling of threads, below, and had to wonder, is there a policy here that is clear and easy to find (NO! not that I can see!) that helps developers here by giving us end-users a place to post the hit-list of scammers on ebay, on iphonetheme websites, etc. ?
If so, I missed it in the information design here. If not, I recommend it. I know it burns you guys who are being ripped off -- but it also ticks off less-sophisticated community members like me (end-users of your hard work) to see your works exploited -- given especially their innovation and performance tweeks.
Here are just a few of the threads I found from this year, from March 08, where people reported being ripped off by people selling their works. In my view, I don't think that's enough or sufficient to just have someone start a thread saying "beware of X, Y or Z". And that's why I posted this. Thanks to all of you who make the lives of end-users more productive with your great work.
q/s
Name And Shame Ebayer Stealing Xdev Material
Bastards selling my Unlocker
Thief On The Loose At Hofo and possibly xda!
wow.. no reply. well i know i'm verbose, but i thought this would at least get a reply that explained yes/no if the site has designated a specific area to broadcast who are the current scammers operating out on he internets...
Should I be posting this into a different forum? if so, which one please/ thanks
As far as I know, there is no area warning about potential scams. There have been issues with people selling cooked roms on ebay that i'm aware of, but that normally comes up in model-specific forums.
it definitely could be helpful to have such an area on the forum, but at the same time, there have been many stickies informing people NOT to go out and sell other peoples work, and advising people against using warez and cracked programs.
Most people that have come to this forum realize there is no reason to pay for most software, as there's probably an excellent free or open source alternative. if there's not yet, someone's working on one. this forum is a mix of entusiasts, programmers, hackers, and people who just love to tweak their devices. once you come here and see the vast amounts of information, there's really no need to go anywhere else. i check the xda forums rather regularly, and pocketpcfreeware every now and again.
i don't think a scams section on the forum would help keep from people getting scammed elsewhere... they usually find this site after they've already been scammed. many of us have already taken it into our own hands, by trying to point as many people as we can here, so they can learn the beauty of free, well maintained software and roms made by people who just want to help others enjoy their devices more and more.
scammers are more like a disease... and prevention is the best medicine.
alongenemylines said:
As far as I know, there is no area warning about potential scams. There have been issues with people selling cooked roms on ebay that i'm aware of, but that normally comes up in model-specific forums.
it definitely could be helpful to have such an area on the forum, but at the same time, there have been many stickies informing people NOT to go out and sell other peoples work, and advising people against using warez and cracked programs.
Most people that have come to this forum realize there is no reason to pay for most software, as there's probably an excellent free or open source alternative. if there's not yet, someone's working on one. this forum is a mix of entusiasts, programmers, hackers, and people who just love to tweak their devices. once you come here and see the vast amounts of information, there's really no need to go anywhere else. i check the xda forums rather regularly, and pocketpcfreeware every now and again.
i don't think a scams section on the forum would help keep from people getting scammed elsewhere... they usually find this site after they've already been scammed. many of us have already taken it into our own hands, by trying to point as many people as we can here, so they can learn the beauty of free, well maintained software and roms made by people who just want to help others enjoy their devices more and more.
scammers are more like a disease... and prevention is the best medicine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There have been instances where its come to the attention of the community here and the developers of ROMS and programs that their work is being packaged and sold on ebay and the like. Obviously this behavior is viewed very negatively. While there is no policy or "organized" efforts to monitor and react, when someone does point out an instance, the community members rally around and do what they can to call the guy out, and warn potential scammees of it. Ebay is often notified directly, and also comments on the sellers postings on ebay are made to warn.
And yes, your post is verbose
Visit Groubal and sign the petition: http://www.groubal.com/motorola-lockedencrypted-bootloader-policy/
Retweet: http://twitter.com/#!/ibproud/status/52265679990169600
Facebook Page: http://www.facebook.com/unlockmoto
UPDATE (14th June 2011):
We are now over the 10,000 mark.
I have now spoken with Motorola and gotten confirmation that Motorola plan to unlock every device that will get an update in the second half of this year. This will include maintenance & firmware updates, but is still subject to Carrier approval.
The promising sign is that Verizon has already allowed Motorola to unlock a device on their network, the Xoom, which utilizes the unlockable/re-lockable model that Motorola intends on using across their devices.
I'm still looking to work with Motorola in the coming months to help see if we can make this a smooth process for Motorola and the community.
You can read the article here:
http://ausdroid.net/2011/06/14/an-u...witter&utm_campaign=Feed:+ausdroid+(Ausdroid)
Please share this where you can and keep it alive. I will continue to work with Motorola to see if we can get this thing torn wide open.
UPDATE (26th April 2011):
We are now at ~8,700 mark.
Motorola has now responded to me, stating that they are looking at unlocking bootloaders across their devices late 2011.
The article for the story can be found here:
http://ausdroid.net/2011/04/26/the-little-aussie-taking-on-motorola-u-s/#more-8184
We're still seeking clarity around whether this will be for current devices or only future devices.
I couldn't have gotten this far without the support of everyone here. You guys and girls have been a huge support and help me turn this snowball into a wrecking ball.
Please share this where you can and keep it alive. I will continue to work with Motorola to see if we can get this thing torn wide open.
Previous Update (4th April 2011):
We are now at ~7600 mark.
We're starting to slow down from our initial boom, so I have now set up a Facebook page to see if we can wrangle in some supporters that don't use Twitter or XDA.
I will need your help getting this out there. So share the facebook page where you can.
I'm also looking to see if anyone is interested in helping me Moderate the page. Please PM if you are.
Original Post:
Hi All,
I have created a Groubal (online petition) to get a response from Motorola on it's bootloader policy.
>>This petition started for the Atrix, but I made sure that it was for Motorola's overall Bootloader Policy. I have reached 200 signatures in 2 weeks, but now believe it's time to expand this out of the Atrix space and into the larger Motorola Dev community.
You guys and your silly petitions. They wont and don't ha e to do anything.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
DarrellRaines said:
You guys and your silly petitions. They wont and don't ha e to do anything.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What can I say, I'm idealistic.
IMO waste of time.
Moto thinks they're God. Also, odds are your gorilla glass will be cracked before this bootloader.
On the other hand, class-action lawsuit is more appealing. Somehow get a lawyer to argue the users right to UTILIZE the hardware, as moto isn't. Lawsuits are the only thing corporations understand.
I did sign it, but I got no hopes...
tical2k said:
IMO waste of time.
Moto thinks they're God. Also, odds are your gorilla glass will be cracked before this bootloader.
On the other hand, class-action lawsuit is more appealing. Somehow get a lawyer to argue the users right to UTILIZE the hardware, as moto isn't. Lawsuits are the only thing corporations understand.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While litigation may be the way in the U.S. it is not the way in the land down under. We have Government appointed watchdogs that provide avenues for complaints and comments. If a complaint is sufficiently raised to an Ombudsman the company the complaint is about is charged a fee for every day the complaint is not resolved.
Unfortunately the Atrix is not commercially available in Australia and thus I cannot pursue this in a typical Australian way.
If suing the pants of Motorola is likely to work, then I encourage any U.S. Citizens to do so (but only after carefully considering the cause and affect).
I am simply encouraging everyone to focus their complaints rather than spreading it across so many channels and losing it's potency.
Also: in all honesty, it's not really wasting that much time, since I would normally be wasting this time flashing experimental Roms, which I can't do due to obvious readons.
Signed and linked to on Facebook. It's no more a waste of time than flashing a rom...
edit hehe. You beat me to the waste of time comment
Signed it just a second ago!
I'll sign but this has a much lower chance of succeeding than the AT&T service petition, and I'm not convinced we'll see many results from that one.
CC Lemon said:
I'll sign but this has a much lower chance of succeeding than the AT&T service petition, and I'm not convinced we'll see many results from that one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But there's no harm in trying is there?
I think that when compared with the DroidX and Droid2, this phone will be available around the world. Verizon is one of the only carriers that still uses CDMA and thus smaller consumer base for the Droid series Motorola phones.
Once the Global Atrix's are released we should see a lot more attention as well as the European Unions attitude towards anti-competitive behaviour might force an inquiry.
Once again, I'm a tad idealistic and am very keen for your support as well as your constructive feedback.
signed~! but i only put 1% of my hopes in this and the rest 99% in the developers to crack the bootloader themselves!!
I support your cause; I have signed.
irenic said:
signed~! but i only put 1% of my hopes in this and the rest 99% in the developers to crack the bootloader themselves!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well put. I signed.
With the new SBF file available we could start seeing more development, but would still be great to hear something from Motorola.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=989577
haha.. as if motorola cares. you already bought, its a done deal! they even promised 1080p recording on the specs sheet followed by "(in the future update)".. i seriously dont think there will be an update on this thing..
before you buy, they promise lots of things, "in the future update".
after you gave buy and after a while try asking for the update.. these f*cktards will just say... "what update?"
my hope leans more on supporting the developers who are working hard to crack this wonderful device.. rather than wasting time begging to motorola after you shelled out that sum.
noblewolf said:
haha.. as if motorola cares. you already bought, its a done deal! they even promised 1080p recording on the specs sheet followed by "(in the future update)".. i seriously dont think there will be an update on this thing..
before you buy, they promise lots of things, "in the future update".
after you gave buy and after a while try asking for the update.. these f*cktards will just say... "what update?"
my hope leans more on supporting the developers who are working hard to crack this wonderful device.. rather than wasting time begging to motorola after you shelled out that sum.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Completely agree, but in all honesty, I had the time to waste.
The Dev's really are the ones that will get the bootloader unlocked or bypassed before motorola even decides to do anything.
The Dev threads are starting to get really exciting.
Sent from my MB860
Just a reminder to anyone who wants to get an official statement from Motorola to go to http://www.groubal.com/motorola-lockedencrypted-bootloader-policy/
and tweet or facebook to as many as you can.
Continuing the Battle
So we're up near the 200 signature mark now for the Petition. I've been in touch with Motorola about 6 times in the last 2 weeks, not giving up on this one though.
My last response from them was:
Dear Irwin,
I do apologize but there is no definite timeframe yet for the announcement of the bootloader solution for our mobile phones. Updates for the Motorola ATRIX will be posted first at http://www.motorola.com/Support/CA-EN/Consumer-Support/Mobile-Phones/ATRIX. I'm so sorry for that inconvenience.
We hope that you find this information useful and look forward to assisting you in the future.
For information about Motorola products and services, please visit us at http://www.motorola.com/
Thank you for contacting Motorola e-mail support.
Best Regards,
Neil
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Click to collapse
So it's not a flat out denial of an imminent bootloader solution, but we're no closer either.
I will now create similar posts in the other Motorola forums on XDA and see if we can get our Brothers & Sisters to join the party.
I know there are a lot of skeptics, but I will keep trying. I don't have the skill to help the Dev's crack the phone, but I do have the patience to make our voices heard.
ikenley said:
So we're up near the 200 signature mark now for the Petition. I've been in touch with Motorola about 6 times in the last 2 weeks, not giving up on this one though.
My last response from them was:
So it's not a flat out denial of an imminent bootloader solution, but we're no closer either.
I will now create similar posts in the other Motorola forums on XDA and see if we can get our Brothers & Sisters to join the party.
I know there are a lot of skeptics, but I will keep trying. I don't have the skill to help the Dev's crack the phone, but I do have the patience to make our voices heard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"bootloader solution" can mean anything. it can even mean staying with their locked bootloader is their solution.
dLo GSR said:
"bootloader solution" can mean anything. it can even mean staying with their locked bootloader is their solution.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very concise point, but if you review this statement, then it's in context.
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=495971028278
Which is all included in the Groubal.
Signed. Maybe someone should design a B&W 8.5x11 printout that can be posted at universities to drum up support... I'm in a CS program and I'm sure there are more than a couple who would take the 2 seconds necessary to sign- I just don't know any of them personally!
Hey everyone, being as this is a webcast about Android Development I'm not sure if it belongs here or in "General" so Mods please move it if you think it doesn't belong.
Anyway, lets get on the AT&T webcast tomorrow and bug them about bootloader access, you do have to register to participate but it's easy enough. It begins at 11AM PST and says it is an hour long. You need Microsoft Office Live Meeting (or you could call in) but it's free to download.
http://developer.att.com/developer/forward.jsp?passedItemId=5300338
I fully realize that this may be a futile action but in my experience persistence pays off and I'm not done bothering them quite yet, maybe 6 months down the road if they still aren't doing anything for us I'll give, but not yet!
Aside: I'm assuming that since this uses full featured meeting software there will be an opportunity to ask questions.
Awesome! Yes, please do! It worked for HSUPA, it is worth a shot.
...why would you bug AT&T about a Motorola device? Waste of effort.
Ririal said:
...why would you bug AT&T about a Motorola device? Waste of effort.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Presenters:
Greg Wilson, Technology Evangelist, Motorola Mobility
Greg is a Technology Evangelist at Motorola Mobility, helping developers to create the best possible Android applications. Prior to joining Motorola, Greg was at Palm (and its various incarnations) doing similar work for the Palm OS developer community. Greg has been programming since the early days of the microcomputer, and has written software for programmable calculators, IBM mainframes, and an assortment of microprocessor architectures and microcomputer operating systems.
Peter van der Linden, Technology Evangelist, Motorola Mobility
Peter is the Android Technology Evangelist within the Developer Tools and Technical Services team at Motorola. He is not afraid of bugs, and has a collection of several prize bugs (software only).
They work for Motorola.
youareme7 said:
Hey everyone, being as this is a webcast about Android Development I'm not sure if it belongs here or in "General" so Mods please move it if you think it doesn't belong.
Anyway, lets get on the AT&T webcast tomorrow and bug them about bootloader access, you do have to register to participate but it's easy enough. It begins at 11AM PST and says it is an hour long. You need Microsoft Office Live Meeting (or you could call in) but it's free to download.
http://developer.att.com/developer/forward.jsp?passedItemId=5300338
I fully realize that this may be a futile action but in my experience persistence pays off and I'm not done bothering them quite yet, maybe 6 months down the road if they still aren't doing anything for us I'll give, but not yet!
Aside: I'm assuming that since this uses full featured meeting software there will be an opportunity to ask questions.
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Make sure to point out the number of people that want this.
http://www.groubal.com/motorola-lockedencrypted-bootloader-policy/
I'm not going to be able to watch and partcipate for this. I would like if someone could record this conference.
Thanks.
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk
Ririal said:
...why would you bug AT&T about a Motorola device? Waste of effort.
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Because AT&T is behind 99pct of the problems with the Atrix:
- No Side Loading - AT&T
- Reduced Speeds - AT&T
- No Root Access - AT&T
Motorola made it pretty clear pre-release they wanted to open up the bootloader, AT&T obviously shut that down.
maybe they will give us the key for the bootloader, probably not, however its a good place to voice our concern
hate_Romania said:
maybe they will give us the key for the bootloader, probably not, however its a good place to voice our concern
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I doubt it. I asked in their MotoDev forum.
http://community.developer.motorola...trix-App-summit-on-March-29th-2011/td-p/12350
I'm not sure if it would actually do us any good, but I mean i guess it would be worth a try. Who is all gunna be the conference tomorrow??
I think (When it comes to their "bootloader solution") what they meant to say was "We do what we think is right when it comes to working with devs and customers, and will continue to do so in the future". And, what everyone took that to mean was "THEY ARE GONNA UNLOCK THE BOOTLOADER FOR US". I'm not saying I agree AT ALL, I just sometimes try to look at it from both sides.
I definitely want this thing unlocked, but I'm not counting on Moto to do too much about it. Not to say opinions shouldn't be voiced!
No one should be blaming ATT for the locked bootloader. Motorola's Droids (except for OG Droid) all have been locked down and they are on Verizon's network. Feel free to blame ATT for upload speeds, fake 4G, no sideloading, global warming, etc...
The Motorola employee that's going to be there is an application developer. He's unlikely to know anything about, much less have an answer for, anything about the bootloader. Harassing employees makes the entire community look bad and childish. If you have a REAL problem with it, other than bandwagon hatred for something a lot of you clearly don't understand, follow the appropriate channels. Lawyer up and file a formal complaint. Harassing them over the internet won't get you anywhere. If you REALLY believe that it's changed anything so far, I'm sorry you're that ignorant.
All the whining and harassing got nowhere, but when a thought out, well written petition was put into place and formal requests were made, look what happened: Motorola released their source. They didn't do it to "appease the masses", or to "shut us up." They did it because the proper channels were followed and they honored that. You have to understand that the amount of people who want the bootloader unlocked is a very, VERY small portion of their total userbase. It's entirely ignorant to claim that everyone wants this. Motorola isn't some evil overlord who wants their users to hate them. They're a business. Do you honestly think they'll care if a few hundred users out of the hundreds of thousands they have leave over the bootloader being locked? Unlikely. They've recognized the issue, and have announced they will have a solution for developers soon, which is more than they're even obligated to do in the first place. They don't owe you anything, having such an entitled attitude is hurtful to the entire process. Be patient.
I mean no disrespect to anyone in particular, so please, be respectful and mature of the situation. If you don't like it, that's fine, voice your opinion respectfully.
I second Ririal. Those two that are going to be presenting tomorrow are evangelists, and are going to be pretty in the dark about the situation.
I think the chat will be very interesting. Devs being there should be good for a prediction on where Moto plans to take the Atrix... wonder if we can ask questions in a round about way to see if they slip on how they unlock the bootloader to develop on the phone... lol yea I know wishful thinking this isn't a cartoon or movie lol but one can dream... I'll try and make the chat and see if I can record it for you guys
Sent from my MB860 using XDA Premium App
I have school at that time but can someone do me a favour and bug them about his.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=980047
Its common with half the people that unlocked the Atrix.
I have a meeting tomorrow and can't participate in the webcast.
However, would somebody _please_ tell them that there are companies out there who really want to develop applications for the webtop.
I have the go-ahead at work to port our primary Linux/X Windows application to the webtop on the Atrix, but cannot move forward so long as hacking/rooting the device is necessary. We can only develop using officially authorized channels.
Thanks in advance for anyone who can bring this up to them.
Ririal said:
The Motorola employee that's going to be there is an application developer. He's unlikely to know anything about, much less have an answer for, anything about the bootloader. Harassing employees makes the entire community look bad and childish. If you have a REAL problem with it, other than bandwagon hatred for something a lot of you clearly don't understand, follow the appropriate channels. Lawyer up and file a formal complaint. Harassing them over the internet won't get you anywhere. If you REALLY believe that it's changed anything so far, I'm sorry you're that ignorant.
All the whining and harassing got nowhere, but when a thought out, well written petition was put into place and formal requests were made, look what happened: Motorola released their source. They didn't do it to "appease the masses", or to "shut us up." They did it because the proper channels were followed and they honored that. You have to understand that the amount of people who want the bootloader unlocked is a very, VERY small portion of their total userbase. It's entirely ignorant to claim that everyone wants this. Motorola isn't some evil overlord who wants their users to hate them. They're a business. Do you honestly think they'll care if a few hundred users out of the hundreds of thousands they have leave over the bootloader being locked? Unlikely. They've recognized the issue, and have announced they will have a solution for developers soon, which is more than they're even obligated to do in the first place. They don't owe you anything, having such an entitled attitude is hurtful to the entire process. Be patient.
I mean no disrespect to anyone in particular, so please, be respectful and mature of the situation. If you don't like it, that's fine, voice your opinion respectfully.
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Agreed Ririal.
The petition I've started doesn't actually complain about anything, it asks for an announcement at the very least. Just something for Developers to be hopeful for. It also just requests an option for Developers not for everyone.
We are working very hard to follow the right channels on the topic and generate positive support to show Motorola that there is an enthusiastic user-base out there.
http://www.groubal.com/motorola-lockedencrypted-bootloader-policy/
ikenley said:
Agreed Ririal.
The petition I've started doesn't actually complain about anything, it asks for an announcement at the very least. Just something for Developers to be hopeful for. It also just requests an option for Developers not for everyone.
We are working very hard to follow the right channels on the topic and generate positive support to show Motorola that there is an enthusiastic user-base out there.
http://www.groubal.com/motorola-lockedencrypted-bootloader-policy/
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Absolutely. I saw your petition and have signed it. I'd love to see them, at the very least, give us an answer. We may not like it, but at least we'd have one instead of empty promises right now. No need to get upset about it, though
electronaut said:
I have a meeting tomorrow and can't participate in the webcast.
However, would somebody _please_ tell them that there are companies out there who really want to develop applications for the webtop.
I have the go-ahead at work to port our primary Linux/X Windows application to the webtop on the Atrix, but cannot move forward so long as hacking/rooting the device is necessary. We can only develop using officially authorized channels.
Thanks in advance for anyone who can bring this up to them.
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THIS THIS
Being able to create/load webtop apps would be an awesome feature that would turn the webtop from an interesting sideshow to a must-have.
I am hesitant to spend anything on the lapdock because I don't think it would be much more useful than the phone itself. If I could throw OpenOffice down on there or something using apt-get then I would totally buy it.
I understand that Moto might want to control the user experience, as nobody is going to be doing any high-powered computation or gaming on it, but third-party apps would be really neat.
Finally today i had enough... I filed a formal complaint with the FTC against motorola and all other mobile device manufacturers out lining the cause and effect of these companies selling us devices that we are made to be only users of rather than owners and administrators the devices we purchased. Nothing will change until we make some one step in and set the rules, i am encouraging everyone here on xda to do the same ... here is a link to the example complaint i filed and the link to the appropriate form to be filed
http://t0dbld.blogspot.com/2011/03/my-complaint-to-ftc-on-lock-bootloaders.html
https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/FTC_Wizard.aspx?Lang=en
Can I still do this as a Canadian Citizen or is it only for Americans?
mafiaboy01 said:
Can I still do this as a Canadian Citizen or is it only for Americans?
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could not hurt...
even though I don't own this device anymore I still filed a complaint. Rooting this device is much easier than the HTC Inspire. I hope they listen.
Good luck with this. You'll need it. No sarcasm intended.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
t0dbld, I read your complaint and don't take my comment as negative but your complaint is full of grammatical errors. The case in point about Samsung keylogging has been debunked. But your example is always a possible scenario. AT&T data capping speeds for all phones but the iPhone is something we could mention as crippling.
I'm 100% in favor of unlocking our phones boot loader.
http://www.networkworld.com/newsletters/sec/2011/032811sec2.html <-- Samsung false alarm article.
Again, I don't mean any disrespect. I appreciate the developers who help the Android community, especially the Atrix.
Here was my submission:
Motorola makes and sells a device called the Motorola Atrix. They have, in the boot-loader, added a cryptographic signing check that prevents any software not created, and signed by Motorola from executing on the device. I believe this business practice to be monopolistic, and anti-consumer. While modifying the operating system voids any warranty on the device, as a consumer purchasing this device I should have the option to modify, or improve the device in any way I see fit.
In short: Motorola is exhibiting monopolistic business practices by locking the device down and disallowing third party operating system software to be installed.
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t0dbld said:
Finally today i had enough... I filed a formal complaint with the FTC against motorola and all other mobile device manufacturers out lining the cause and effect of these companies selling us devices that we are made to be only users of rather than owners and administrators the devices we purchased. Nothing will change until we make some one step in and set the rules, i am encouraging everyone here on xda to do the same ... here is a link to the example complaint i filed and the link to the appropriate form to be filed
http://t0dbld.blogspot.com/2011/03/my-complaint-to-ftc-on-lock-bootloaders.html
https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/FTC_Wizard.aspx?Lang=en
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I smell an april fools setup post.... if not.. everyone remember what day tomorrow is.
mafiaboy01 said:
Can I still do this as a Canadian Citizen or is it only for Americans?
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kdoodle said:
t0dbld, I read your complaint and don't take my comment as negative but your complaint is full of grammatical errors. The case in point about Samsung keylogging has been debunked. But your example is always a possible scenario. AT&T data capping speeds for all phones but the iPhone is something we could mention as crippling.
I'm 100% in favor of unlocking our phones boot loader.
http://www.networkworld.com/newsletters/sec/2011/032811sec2.html <-- Samsung false alarm article.
Again, I don't mean any disrespect. I appreciate the developers who help the Android community, especially the Atrix.
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I replied on the blog but i will reply here as will in case you did not read , that is a blog, i am not concenred with errors or anything there, also that was not my EXACT complaint as i did not want it to just get copy and pasted hence taking away from my formal complaint, while i appreciate your support and interest , i do think your time would have better used to file an actual complaint as per my request , rather than writing me a 2 page comment about mine either way good to have you on board, and make sure yours is well written
You should have let me proof that prior to submission. Other than it being way to long, over technical, and demonstrating piss poor English it did actually make some points! No hard feelings bro
The problem is that corporate America will not read our complaints, they simply don't care about anything but their bottom dollar. The bottom dollar is protected by the boot loader. New features? Go buy our new device!
The way I see it, we have two options.
A.) Petition our government to impose regulations and implement new laws to control these corporations and protect our consumer rights. But wait, doesn't our government make a lot of money off this industry in every aspect? How much tax did you pay when you bought your device? Ever look at the taxes on your phone bill? It's rape any way you cut it. It's not the 'sleeping with your girlfriend while she's passed out drunk' rape. It's more like the 'in the alley, behind a dumpster, while it's raining and dark getting raped by an HIV infected ex-con bum' rape. So my point is, the FTC is a government subsidiary and our taxes pay their salerys. We have established that they enjoy to rape us and we pay them to do it. Keep up the complaints, they just might change their outlook on life. For now, I would say option A can be scratched off the list.
B.) Start a revolution. Unite, gather our firearms, cordinate our forces, and take our country back!
Or someone smarter than I could just crack the damn boot loader... That's all i have for now, time to burn one
Submitted complaint
Moved to general as not android development
tical2k said:
I smell an april fools setup post.... if not.. everyone remember what day tomorrow is.
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ummm are you that dense this is not a joke
thedude420 said:
You should have let me proof that prior to submission. Other than it being way to long, over technical, and demonstrating piss poor English it did actually make some points! No hard feelings bro
The problem is that corporate America will not read our complaints, they simply don't care about anything but their bottom dollar. The bottom dollar is protected by the boot loader. New features? Go buy our new device!
The way I see it, we have two options.
A.) Petition our government to impose regulations and implement new laws to control these corporations and protect our consumer rights. But wait, doesn't our government make a lot of money off this industry in every aspect? How much tax did you pay when you bought your device? Ever look at the taxes on your phone bill? It's rape any way you cut it. It's not the 'sleeping with your girlfriend while she's passed out drunk' rape. It's more like the 'in the alley, behind a dumpster, while it's raining and dark getting raped by an HIV infected ex-con bum' rape. So my point is, the FTC is a government subsidiary and our taxes pay their salerys. We have established that they enjoy to rape us and we pay them to do it. Keep up the complaints, they just might change their outlook on life. For now, I would say option A can be scratched off the list.
B.) Start a revolution. Unite, gather our firearms, cordinate our forces, and take our country back!
Or someone smarter than I could just crack the damn boot loader... That's all i have for now, time to burn one
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OK nice ridiculous rant , for the last time that was not the EXACT complaint, secondly the FTC is the closest government agency that would have anything to do with this so what do you think we are doing, third please mr 420 hippy do something on your own than, to many times i have been given suggestions by pot smoking liberals with all the answers... yet never once seen them step up to the plate, while my self on the other hand has a long documented court history for the things i believed in and stood up for, i am not against any method of trying to draw attention and get results as this is not about the phone in my hand today but the future of the industry, so please try any method you wish but than do it and than give us your lesson about rape and pot smoke and alleys as the rest of us act with actions.... not long drawn out imaginative story's after "burning one" than dont make any real sense or have any relevance
No not dense, just real. Why would THIS make a difference, the community has been *****ing about bootloaders being locked for ages. Just throw another *****ing complaint in the pile, they don't care. Get a lawyer pack that can combat ATT and/or moto. Are you THAT dense to think you can make a difference. Dont get me wrong I like your spirit and you have an ethos, but not enough money to fix it. sorry face reality.
tical2k said:
No not dense, just real. Why would THIS make a difference, the community has been *****ing about bootloaders being locked for ages. Just throw another *****ing complaint in the pile, they don't care. Get a lawyer pack that can combat ATT and/or moto. Are you THAT dense to think you can make a difference. Dont get me wrong I like your spirit and you have an ethos, but not enough money to fix it. sorry face reality.
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your right.... give up and win, why vote either your vote doesnt count so who cares
t0dbld said:
your right.... give up and win, why vote either your vote doesnt count so who cares
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Nice rebuttle. And for the record I vote... right down the middle to maintain chaos, because politics are only good when they don't do anything unless they both parties agree on it. If you dont like the bootloader being locked why buy it? Also why not return it.
tical2k said:
Nice rebuttle. And for the record I vote... right down the middle to maintain chaos, because politics are only good when they don't do anything unless they both parties agree on it. If you dont like the bootloader being locked why buy it? Also why not return it.
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Your missing the point entirely , this is not about my motorola atrix, i could care less and mine will be unlocked sooner than later... this is about the fact that they have no right to make us users on devices that we own, we own it we deserve to have administrative rights as well as the option to load what ever software we want on it... period
Go away, troll
t0dbld said:
Your missing the point entirely , this is not about my motorola atrix, i could care less and mine will be unlocked sooner than later... this is about the fact that they have no right to make us users on devices that we own, we own it we deserve to have administrative rights as well as the option to load what ever software we want on it... period
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I end with a quote from Swimming with Sharks (a great kevin spacey movie btw):
"Look, I can appreciate this. I was young too, I felt just like you. Hated authority, hated all my bosses, thought they were full of ****. Look, it's like they say, if you're not a rebel by the age of 20, you got no heart, but if you haven't turned establishment by 30, you've got no brains. Because there are no story-book romances, no fairy-tale endings. So before you run out and change the world, ask yourself, "What do you really want?"
I submitted it.
Everyone please do this it doesn't take any time.