What is XDA policy here re Scammers who sell XDA hackers' software? - Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General

This community is so damn innovative and cooperative, it amazes me what software/ROMS get cooked here which really add a lot of productivity value to me, transforming a tedious, hard-to-read Windows Mobile User Interface into a tool that really works on the go. And I've been equally impressed by the collaborative spirit of this community in problem solving and feature tweeks.
Thus I am curious if there is an organized policy here that helps us end-users deter the scammers who grab software from XDA-developers, bundle it, and sell it across the web. I'm speaking of a prominent spot on the home page and within the information design of these forums that, just like the "Missing Kids" alerts on milk cartons, highlights prominently the latest scammers stealing work here.
I understand this forum is for actual development, but truth is this issue gets lost in "General" forums. Because it's the people who hack here who are the people being hurt directly.
Though I signed onto XDA over a year ago, and have read volumes re my T-mobile MDA and software upgrades here, I ended up being nonetheless too nervous to follow the very clear instructions posted last year with all if the various WM 6 roms developed here. And I never did upgrade.
But I have a WING now, and I wanted an iphone theme and user interface. Again I read all the sticky threads for the Herald, as well as the links from the wiki for that specific phone. After several days of trying to figure out "should I be first flashing my T-mobile ROM to a more efficient one, before then seeking to install one of the iphone themes and apps like A_C's S2U2 etc. I then did a dumb consumer thing: when searching this site using Google, I followed the links to one or two of the GOOGLE AD-WORDS hawking an iPhone theme on your PocketPC.
Long story short, I got scammed of $10 for something that was outdated and didn't even install properly on my WING... But I'd been "comforted" by the presentation on their website, http://iphonethemeforpocketpc.com , thinking I would get my head cleared of the confusion that mounts when I'd dig down deep into the many discussions of so many ROMs & themes & apps here. I got burned, that was bad enough. But it then pissed me off doubly that superior software would be found here at XDA -- and more than likely some of that guy's component cab files were simply stolen from developers right here.
I ended up back here and successfully installed the ifonz theme, A_C's S2U2 (the scam site had an old slide2unlock version... bit as everyone here knows, A_C's app is superb. I also installed Contact Manager (amazing!), PCM keyboard (what an improvement over windows), and MortPlayer (fantastic). I intend to donate to each program author.
But the purpose of this post is this: I filed a dispute with PayPal (requires login) over this scammer's non-working product and absolute refusal to even reply to my early "friendly" emails seeking install help. Went through PayPal's Resolution Center "escalation process" -- after no reply from the seller to PayPal -- and my dispute became a CLAIM for Paypal to determine outcome. PayPal's reply, denying the claim, states that they reviewed all communications and investigated the issue fully (totally not true).
I could have stopped there -- afterall i'd long ago expended way more than $10 worth of my time -- but it was for the principle of it. So I called PayPal, went through all the menu-options, screenings, and hold queues, and finally spoke to an actual Resolution Agent -- who was very nice, & actually very helpful.
However: I learned then, from her, what many of you may already know -- but I wonder DOES everyone know?, because I sure didn't... She told me that anything digital or downloadable is not even covered with any Buyer Protection as disclosed in PayPal's terms of service. So the claim got closed automatically because it didn't qualify for any dispute resolution. I was really surprised by this, that no downloadable software is subject to dispute/resolution policies -- and that's why I am writing this thread, as a service (I *hope*) to all you developers.
I first did a search here on the boards for "scams", because I wanted to find a place on this site to DISPLAY CLEARLY---> Here is a scamsite --> make sure your stuff is not being sold there. That's when I saw this sampling of threads, below, and had to wonder, is there a policy here that is clear and easy to find (NO! not that I can see!) that helps developers here by giving us end-users a place to post the hit-list of scammers on ebay, on iphonetheme websites, etc. ?
If so, I missed it in the information design here. If not, I recommend it. I know it burns you guys who are being ripped off -- but it also ticks off less-sophisticated community members like me (end-users of your hard work) to see your works exploited -- given especially their innovation and performance tweeks.
Here are just a few of the threads I found from this year, from March 08, where people reported being ripped off by people selling their works. In my view, I don't think that's enough or sufficient to just have someone start a thread saying "beware of X, Y or Z". And that's why I posted this. Thanks to all of you who make the lives of end-users more productive with your great work.
q/s
Name And Shame Ebayer Stealing Xdev Material
Bastards selling my Unlocker
Thief On The Loose At Hofo and possibly xda!

wow.. no reply. well i know i'm verbose, but i thought this would at least get a reply that explained yes/no if the site has designated a specific area to broadcast who are the current scammers operating out on he internets...
Should I be posting this into a different forum? if so, which one please/ thanks

As far as I know, there is no area warning about potential scams. There have been issues with people selling cooked roms on ebay that i'm aware of, but that normally comes up in model-specific forums.
it definitely could be helpful to have such an area on the forum, but at the same time, there have been many stickies informing people NOT to go out and sell other peoples work, and advising people against using warez and cracked programs.
Most people that have come to this forum realize there is no reason to pay for most software, as there's probably an excellent free or open source alternative. if there's not yet, someone's working on one. this forum is a mix of entusiasts, programmers, hackers, and people who just love to tweak their devices. once you come here and see the vast amounts of information, there's really no need to go anywhere else. i check the xda forums rather regularly, and pocketpcfreeware every now and again.
i don't think a scams section on the forum would help keep from people getting scammed elsewhere... they usually find this site after they've already been scammed. many of us have already taken it into our own hands, by trying to point as many people as we can here, so they can learn the beauty of free, well maintained software and roms made by people who just want to help others enjoy their devices more and more.
scammers are more like a disease... and prevention is the best medicine.

alongenemylines said:
As far as I know, there is no area warning about potential scams. There have been issues with people selling cooked roms on ebay that i'm aware of, but that normally comes up in model-specific forums.
it definitely could be helpful to have such an area on the forum, but at the same time, there have been many stickies informing people NOT to go out and sell other peoples work, and advising people against using warez and cracked programs.
Most people that have come to this forum realize there is no reason to pay for most software, as there's probably an excellent free or open source alternative. if there's not yet, someone's working on one. this forum is a mix of entusiasts, programmers, hackers, and people who just love to tweak their devices. once you come here and see the vast amounts of information, there's really no need to go anywhere else. i check the xda forums rather regularly, and pocketpcfreeware every now and again.
i don't think a scams section on the forum would help keep from people getting scammed elsewhere... they usually find this site after they've already been scammed. many of us have already taken it into our own hands, by trying to point as many people as we can here, so they can learn the beauty of free, well maintained software and roms made by people who just want to help others enjoy their devices more and more.
scammers are more like a disease... and prevention is the best medicine.
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There have been instances where its come to the attention of the community here and the developers of ROMS and programs that their work is being packaged and sold on ebay and the like. Obviously this behavior is viewed very negatively. While there is no policy or "organized" efforts to monitor and react, when someone does point out an instance, the community members rally around and do what they can to call the guy out, and warn potential scammees of it. Ebay is often notified directly, and also comments on the sellers postings on ebay are made to warn.
And yes, your post is verbose

Related

I think someone is stealing your programs!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...Track=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:middle:us
I came across this looking for an 8525, it seems that he may be using the FREE programs available on here. I would say whoever created them go after this guy because it's obviously not fair he is using what you created to profit without you getting anything for it. I'm not 100% sure if he is use the programs from here, but I mean how many Sim/CID unlock program are really out there for the 8525?
I just reported the item to ebay, this is JJ's stuff and other members hard work.
Lurch3559 said:
I just reported the item to ebay, this is JJ's stuff and other members hard work.
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maybe a copy of SPL-****er will be worming its way to him... nothing to do with me of course ^_^
You're welcome guys .
Yeah thats a bunch of bull****. i was looking on ebay the other day for a broken wizard and i saw someone selling a program that would load farias wm6 rom onto their phone. I reported that **** right away. There are so many people on here that are so talented and make so much awesome programs and not charge us a dime for it, but then you got dicks like that guy who decides to profit off of other peoples hard work. Death to that ****er.
Really classy how he was going to put commercial video game ROMs onto the phone/memory card too.
Not only was this guy trying to rip off the individuals here at XDA-dev, but also large corporations as well...
S-M-R-T
chenga said:
Really classy how he was going to put commercial video game ROMs onto the phone/memory card too.
Not only was this guy trying to rip off the individuals here at XDA-dev, but also large corporations as well...
S-M-R-T
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I asked him about the programs and whether he developed them or not, here is the response I got:
"no not personally, but do talk to some of the developers and i donate some of my profit to them. any other questions feel free to ask
thanx
nate"
"i do cook my own roms if thats what you are asking, and just recieved an email asking me to remove this service and aparently reported to ebay, so i will not be able to offer this service at this time
sry
nate"
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Good Catch myztikal47.
I guess we can all help the developers here by keeping an eye out for this kind of crap.
I think it wouldn't be a bad Idea to have a sticky on this topic, something with an eye catching title, so more are aware of this issue, so as to be looking out for stinking thieves at places like ebay or craigslist.
I think it was only a question of time. There is no way how to block this. He can use new account, new name or whatever. we have similar problem on our forum, it is strictly technical forum about repairing TV, radio, video, SAT, PC... and we also have big storage with service manuals, service tips and few guys from us steal this infos from us and trying to profit on these! those information have price of gold, but is no help to stop this. So we decide for higher security, for restriction who can download files, and vice-versa etc. but here is not so easy I think, this will kill this forum.
wow he even had a picture of JJ rom on the page thats the lowest of low stealing and turning anround and making a profit off of it... His address is at the bottom of the page if anyone wants to send him a thank you card!
sinmae said:
I think it was only a question of time. There is no way how to block this. He can use new account, new name or whatever. we have similar problem on our forum, it is strictly technical forum about repairing TV, radio, video, SAT, PC... and we also have big storage with service manuals, service tips and few guys from us steal this infos from us and trying to profit on these! those information have price of gold, but is no help to stop this. So we decide for higher security, for restriction who can download files, and vice-versa etc. but here is not so easy I think, this will kill this forum.
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I don't think I take such a gloomy view. I agree it is impossible to stop someone selling a service and it is not in the spirit of this forum to sell either advice or cooked ROMs etc. But to play "devil's advocate" for a minute, what is it we object to? Is it that these folk are making money? Is it the lack of acknowledgement to the people who have put in all the development work? Is it the danger that selling this type of thing brings unwanted attention from M$ and telecom service providers?
I personally don't object to someone selling their time to help someone who lacks knowledge though they should tell the customer that they could learn for free from this site. If someone offered me cash to help them flash a ROM I don't think I'd feel guilty if I accepted money to do it. (Though I never have!).
I feel the main reason to block this kind of activity is that we already have unwanted attention from the likes of M$ without being associated with the sale of a service that relys on what M$ consider to be illegally altered M$ material. The very act of selling the service will bring a much harder approach from M$ IMO. No longer would we we seen as a bunch of keen dedicated geeky amateurs, but people out to profit illegally from M$ original work.
I notice on a brighter note that the two cases of this I am aware of are no longer available through ebay. In one case the individual has withdrawn the service and the other was removed by ebay.
EDIT: One of them is BACK
As a warning to others who might follow - selling a service or ROMs in this very public way is almost certainly illegal, particularly if bundled with a whole lot of other commercial games etc. If you want to take on the M$ legal team then this is a good way to go about it - remember it's not just the developers here that are not giving permission it is M$ original work that is being made available in a "corrupted" form.
Mike
This guy is back! But in a different flavor. I just found this today on eBay:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/CINGULAR-8525-HT...ryZ64355QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
He is WAAAAYYY overcharging on this phone. His justification? 1) the free upgrades found on this site, and 2) a CD of cracked illegal software.
And I fell sorry for this buyers who fell for his iPhone upgrade scam:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/HTC-CINGULAR-812...ryZ64355QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.ca/HTC-CINGULAR-812...ryZ64355QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I can't believe people fell for that!
this isnt that much different from offering a service to fix phones that users have broken. IE i upgraded to windows mobile 6 and now it doesnt turn on.
yes hes selling other peoples work but really the people that pay him arnt paying him for the software they are paying him for the knowledge he has gained from reading
i would offer a repair service for noobs but theres allready people doing it.
its actually no different to taking a black rom and not donating then complaining about it
tallshorty said:
And I fell sorry for this buyers who fell for his iPhone upgrade scam:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/HTC-CINGULAR-812...ryZ64355QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.ca/HTC-CINGULAR-812...ryZ64355QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I can't believe people fell for that!
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What is to say those buyers are not M$ trying to get the individuals information and then suing him later? Just a thought...
IMO it's fine for him to sell phone with the software pre-loaded on them already, thats like anyone on here selling their phone with all the hacks already done....but to actually have a service to install the software on the phone and profit from that, and not pay the people who created the software...well thats illegal, someone should just report him to Microsoft, they'll have a field day with him lol.
myztikal47 said:
IMO it's fine for him to sell phone with the software pre-loaded on them already, thats like anyone on here selling their phone with all the hacks already done....but to actually have a service to install the software on the phone and profit from that, and not pay the people who created the software...well thats illegal, someone should just report him to Microsoft, they'll have a field day with him lol.
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I agree with you on that but look at how much higher he is selling the phone because of the free softwares. It's the same as offering the service, basically.
he must need some money to be doing this...this guy must be a crack addict...or meth...yeah probably meth addict, anyways
I'm saddened to see stuff like this go on...coupled with these annoying noobs flooding the forums, m$ being ever so watchful, and the eventuality of newer devices...the great people of XDA might just get turned off from all of this...i know some are already extremely annoyed
...only time will tell
I have a close personal friend that works for Microsoft in their Windows Mobile team and I am going to forward this thread as well as the links to the ebay auctions over to him.
mikechannon said:
I don't think I take such a gloomy view. I agree it is impossible to stop someone selling a service and it is not in the spirit of this forum to sell either advice or cooked ROMs etc. But to play "devil's advocate" for a minute, what is it we object to? Is it that these folk are making money? Is it the lack of acknowledgement to the people who have put in all the development work? Is it the danger that selling this type of thing brings unwanted attention from M$ and telecom service providers?
I personally don't object to someone selling their time to help someone who lacks knowledge though they should tell the customer that they could learn for free from this site. If someone offered me cash to help them flash a ROM I don't think I'd feel guilty if I accepted money to do it. (Though I never have!).
I feel the main reason to block this kind of activity is that we already have unwanted attention from the likes of M$ without being associated with the sale of a service that relys on what M$ consider to be illegally altered M$ material. The very act of selling the service will bring a much harder approach from M$ IMO. No longer would we we seen as a bunch of keen dedicated geeky amateurs, but people out to profit illegally from M$ original work.
I notice on a brighter note that the two cases of this I am aware of are no longer available through ebay. In one case the individual has withdrawn the service and the other was removed by ebay.
EDIT: One of them is BACK
As a warning to others who might follow - selling a service or ROMs in this very public way is almost certainly illegal, particularly if bundled with a whole lot of other commercial games etc. If you want to take on the M$ legal team then this is a good way to go about it - remember it's not just the developers here that are not giving permission it is M$ original work that is being made available in a "corrupted" form.
Mike
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I will point out a couple of things wrong with this Mike... 1. He is using JJ's roms and i highly doubt JJ is getting any kind of kickback. 2. His ebay username nateshuntsvegas is the same as on here. That alone could very well attract some negative attention as if M$ havent given us a hard time the way it is.
the rest of it i agree with
shogunmark said:
I will point out a couple of things wrong with this Mike... 1. He is using JJ's roms and i highly doubt JJ is getting any kind of kickback. 2. His ebay username nateshuntsvegas is the same as on here. That alone could very well attract some negative attention as if M$ havent given us a hard time the way it is.
the rest of it i agree with
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I don't disagree with your comment, but as JJ's work is freely available for folk to download it's impossible to stop anyone selling services to install it. But yes the negative attention of M$ (linked as it is to here) is certainly not what we want. If we are seen by M$ to be set against any moves to sell this kind of material or a service to install it I'm sure this will improve their view of us.
Mike

WAREZ everywhere... and even here

I used to confuse this forum with a decent place for technical discussion of technical issues related to HTC devices, this illusion was short lived People are just casually dropping links to warez and no one seems to care! no moderation whatsoever. Take this example: A rigged license file for the most marvelous software ever for Windows mobile: Igo8 was put two months ago here. I complained quite clearly, and requested moderators for action in the respective thread here. No action whatsoever! Now look at this glorious post in the same thread here, the whole rigged software is available for your kind usage. It seems there is no stopping!
Please understand my harsh tone has a deeper reason. I am quite sure that this is the only reason why windows mobile is taking such strong bashing from iphone.... such a mature platform taking beating from a newborn! The reason is: developers get a few bucks in return of there hard work for iphone, while for windows mobile ppl just run for the rigged versions everywhere. If software developers are not paid back their hard-earned money, they will just look away, stop developing for windows, now that they have a much viable alternate like iphone and others. We all have to think about this! This is a doomsday scenario for WM.
Best regards!
if you havent heard, the jailbroken iphones have a program called Installer...where they get all the apps for free too just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents ... i just dont see the reason why it would bother you, it's neither one of our faults, its the way the website monitors their threads ... no need to make a whole new thread bashing the website
elite-fusion said:
if you havent heard, the jailbroken iphones have a program called Installer...where they get all the apps for free too just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents ... i just dont see the reason why it would bother you, it's neither one of our faults, its the way the website monitors their threads ... no need to make a whole new thread bashing the website
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Thats not the point... and the purpose of this thread isn’t "bashing" this forum. The point is, we here should not facilitate the downward spiral windows mobile is in right now, we should have strict action against it at least within the discussions here. I know about iphone jail breaking, but its ease and availability is no where close to WM... iphone app developers are really earning money, the proof of this pudding is in eating. Just last year, we all were laughing at iphone not having an SDK. Now, if i try to google an app for my WM, the search return iphone app instead!
Deep Breath.......
waqarz said:
Thats not the point... etc,etc,etc !
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When I first started to read your initial post I thought - Hear we go, another over exaggerated claim and a rant about how poorly the site is managed.... but as I finished reading I thought "Yep" your at least partly right - there's far more "abuse" of the forum and site now in many ways than there was a year ago - not just on the Warez front either - So I'm very much with you there and in support of your "general" comments.... However....
Membership of XDA Developers has rocketed in the past 12 months (or so it seems????) as has the activity and number of posts/comments/hits per day - and not just in this section but in many others.... which is of course a good thing - but..... with all the extra traffic and all the extra members so the "unwanted" aspects also experientially increase - and "OUR" moderators have far more to monitor and try to manage (as well as helping out and offering advice themselves when they can) and this is the part you seem to have missed as others often do - the moderators are NOT paid - its something they do because they want to and because they can.....
I would actively encourage you, and ALL other members to continue to report abuse of the site and on the forums and to actively discourage other members by highlighting (as you have) inappropriate behaviour so we can self regulate as much as possible.
Of course, if the moderators have time and the inclination to step in and take action then that’s great, if not - then lets help by policing ourselves and offering offenders (quite often misguided I'm sure) some friendly but firm advice - if its ignored then what more can we do.
Deep Breath.......
.
"the downward spiral windows mobile is in right now"
Dear Don Quixote, i beg to differ. The """downward""" spiral is becoase of crappy operating system and warez has nothing to do with it. And well, iphone is trendy :lol: I dont condone warez but i am organically alergic to more-god-than-god people like you.
And stop annoying people here, go to the kindergarten and yell "new torrent tracker". You will be amazed how many kids will turn around.
waqarz said:
I used to confuse this forum with a decent place for technical discussion of technical issues related to HTC devices, this illusion was short lived People are just casually dropping links to warez and no one seems to care! no moderation whatsoever. Take this example: A rigged license file for the most marvelous software ever for Windows mobile: Igo8 was put two months ago here. I complained quite clearly, and requested moderators for action in the respective thread here. No action whatsoever! Now look at this glorious post in the same thread here, the whole rigged software is available for your kind usage. It seems there is no stopping!
Please understand my harsh tone has a deeper reason. I am quite sure that this is the only reason why windows mobile is taking such strong bashing from iphone.... such a mature platform taking beating from a newborn! The reason is: developers get a few bucks in return of there hard work for iphone, while for windows mobile ppl just run for the rigged versions everywhere. If software developers are not paid back their hard-earned money, they will just look away, stop developing for windows, now that they have a much viable alternate like iphone and others. We all have to think about this! This is a doomsday scenario for WM.
Best regards!
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The best you can do to help stopping this is to report the post or member clicking on the report symbol next to the post #, or post it in spam section here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=306366&page=22
That way Mods can take an action.
There are so many threads that is difficult to monitor all
If you have a problem
use the report button, we are here to help.
we can't be everywhere so you need to tell us so we can act.
thank you.
liamhere said:
use the report button, we are here to help.
we can't be everywhere so you need to tell us so we can act.
thank you.
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Thanks, I really should have used the "report" link, my bad!
I really do appreciate all the volunteer work being done here by moderators and other resonable members. I myself moderate a few forums, not as large as this though and to some extend I know the toll. All, keep up the good work!
I still have a suggestion, members doing strict violation of policy should be warned and later banned!
Best regards.
waqarz said:
I still have a suggestion, members doing strict violation of policy should be warned and later banned!
Best regards.
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Nah just electrocute them first, warn them if they recover.
fards said:
Nah just electrocute them first, warn them if they recover.
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Good one
waqarz said:
...
I am quite sure that this is the only reason why windows mobile is taking such strong bashing from iphone.... such a mature platform taking beating from a newborn! The reason is: developers get a few bucks in return of there hard work for iphone, while for windows mobile ppl just run for the rigged versions everywhere. If software developers are not paid back their hard-earned money, they will just look away, stop developing for windows, now that they have a much viable alternate like iphone and others. We all have to think about this! This is a doomsday scenario for WM...
Click to expand...
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as someone else already did
i must disagree with you on one point, why WinMo "...is taking such strong bashing from..." iPhone
it has nothing to do with Warez, your argument seems uninformed and almost sounds like bashing
Using the iPhone for any length of time you'll realize just how much time was put into the user experience, no manual, no class, just pick up and use. WinMo had thought behind it's design, but it was designed about a decade ago, to be used with a stylus. As is it's hopelessly outdated in look and feel (Windows 3.1 anyone, that's mature too by now)
As for the reason it seams that developers do better on the iPhone it's the same thing; thought. Thought put into the experience of using the AppStore. no serial headaches, integration, updates, and backup - just works. Like iTunes it's just easy to use for average people, Handago (or whatever is compatible with AppStore) is NOT easy.
Ignoring the needs of users and no real innovation from Redmond is doomsday for WinMo. Not Warez (which, as mentioned exist for the iPhone too, and it's this easy).
P.S. never had an Apple product, but if iPhone had Copy & Paste i'd own one now, not the HD
P.P.S. there is somewhat of a backlash in the Apple community against quality control, bad developers, and no "try before you buy" in the AppStore. if interested please read here then here.
The only thing why Iphone have so many Apps (and good apps) is the Appstore (one place for all apps), and the Hype. And ofcourse its only 1 device, with 1 displaysize, 1 processor and 1 input type.
On WM we got several desplaysizes, devices, processors and input types.
Its much more easy and cheaply to develope for 1 device than for thousands.
If we get also a appstore i am really safe that we get more good apps and games for our WM Devices.
Second:
I think delevopers do a hard job and develope good apps, and we shall donate to them. I work for a big software company and also hate warez. Warez is not good, but do not exaggerate nevertheless times! I do not think that here possibly someone such things with intention.
Third:
Sorry for my bad english.
Sir.B said:
as someone else already did
i must disagree with you on one point, why WinMo "...is taking such strong bashing from..." iPhone
it has nothing to do with Warez, your argument seems uninformed and almost sounds like bashing
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You cant be serious right? Go through these 3 articles, just the first 3 hits on google:
http://msmobiles.com/news.php/6459.html
http://www.fiercedeveloper.com/report/mobile-pda-software-piracy-and-warez
http://apcmag.com/windows_mobile_6_pirated.htm
Take one example: just over the last year, hundreds of thousands of people have illegally shared navigation maps, a conservative estimate of loss is in millions of dollars.
I an NOT claiming piracy is the only problem with WM, but it sure is a BIG contributor, this is my only point in this discussion. The reasons and implications are many and I cant go into details. I really feel sorry, my own mistake, dropping in the word "iphone" always ends up in a useless debate! Many threads here being trashed because of this.
Best regards.

STOP THE STEALING - HD2 Scammers - Lets help the hard working developers..

I really hope the mods dont close cause this needs to be out there....
I am starting this thread to try to help protect the developers work from scammers....
I ask that if you see someone trying to sell the work of the devs. via ebay craigslist or any other site that you report it in this thread to help stop them in there track.... Hopefully if they see there ads listed here when they come to steal the work they will stop trying to sell it....
This money belong to all the people that has made this all possible....
This is the latest ad I have found which is just wrong.....
Android on your HD2 - $75 (arlington)
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Date: 2010-07-27, 11:33AM CDT
Reply to: [email protected] [Errors when replying to ads?]
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i can make ur hd2 phone dual boot to have winmo and android on your phone both in working order i do have everything on a laptop and can meet to show you my working device and mod your device to match it...plz text (469)-684-8218 or reply to this email for questions !! price depends on your location and how far i have to drive
•Location: arlington
•it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
PostingID: 1865976865
damn that is just wrong....and they even left their phone number...
http://cgi.ebay.com/HTC-HD2-Android...d=ViewItem&pt=Cell_Phones&hash=item3caf4d42c1
HTC HD2 Android 2.1 Installation Instructions
I am selling installation instructions for how to put Android 2.1on your HD2. I will give you step by step instructions on how to put a functioning Android ROM on your HTC HD2.
Android is what your HD2 has been waiting for. The current ROM's available are very stable and everything works-bluetooth, calling, email, text, data, Android Market--you just need to know how to do it!!
You are purchasing many hours of research condensed and compiled into easy to read instructions on three pieces of paper. i own the copyright to the instructions, and they are solely my research. I tell you where to go to get the files and then what to do with them to get it running on your HD2. Not breaking your phone and doing it right the first time is what this is about. I have created step by step instructions for you to read and follow, the rest is up to you.You should be up and running within an hour of receiving your instructions.
Please call text or email me with any questions you may have!!!
586-665-6669
I can also update you to the latest version of 2.2 Froyo upon request.
Other sellers may promise you Android on your HD2 which is only partially usable and experimental, but I will tell you how to install a fully functional, stable Android build.
If you are a seller and want to increase your HD2 selling price, let me help you sell for over $100 more per item with this advanced ROM.
We shall flood him with texts asking him to drive anywhere to install android. He ll loose his time and money
Sent from my Androihd2
that is just horrible! if anyone asked me, id do it for free and DEFINITELY tell them i didnt come up with this and give credit to those who did.
What these devs did is amazing and they seriously deserve the credit!
LAAAAAMEEEE!
I have had seen that on craislist add to, not to long ago but I have post tell all the craigslist shoper said that a guy who posted claiming that he could get android to run on HD2 for 40 dollar is a scammer, Cause I know it should be free and I have link the website to here xda-developer.
I don't think it right making money from other people work!!!
i suppose its fair to ask for money to drive to someone and give them a personal tuition on installing android and how to use it on your hd2.
i like to find information and figure things out by myself to do stuff.
some people arent very good at rooting out what they need to do but they are still capable of understanding something if someone sits down and explains it to them.
maybe it will bring some new people into the xda world. loads of people have an hd2 as an upgrade and dont know anything about it.
I feel that if credit is given freely where it is due, the *service* should be allowed.
Most people won't go put replacement parts on their car, and mechanics don't (generally) create their own parts from molten metal. That said, most mechanics also won't say that they DID create the parts from molten metal.
I haven't offered my services as a "phone mechanic" but if I did, AND posted links to the original works, AND made it clear that I was simply selling a service, would I be villified by the development community?
xfinrodx said:
I feel that if credit is given freely where it is due, the *service* should be allowed.
Most people won't go put replacement parts on their car, and mechanics don't (generally) create their own parts from molten metal. That said, most mechanics also won't say that they DID create the parts from molten metal.
I haven't offered my services as a "phone mechanic" but if I did, AND posted links to the original works, AND made it clear that I was simply selling a service, would I be villified by the development community?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's because people with no knowledge about cars should not tamper with their cars or they may cause some serious damage. Putting Android on the HD2 has no ill effects at all and does not warrant a $75 service charge or any at all. Something like this is as stupid as those idiots out there you see selling iPhone jailbreaks and unlocks when those are ridiculously easy as well and again cause no damage to the phone (except warranty voiding but that's to be expected).
hmm?
xfinrodx said:
I feel that if credit is given freely where it is due, the *service* should be allowed.
Most people won't go put replacement parts on their car, and mechanics don't (generally) create their own parts from molten metal. That said, most mechanics also won't say that they DID create the parts from molten metal.
I haven't offered my services as a "phone mechanic" but if I did, AND posted links to the original works, AND made it clear that I was simply selling a service, would I be villified by the development community?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please explain this to me - what kind of "service" would you offer? Downloading a rom build by someone else and extracting the file to a sd-card? And making false promises by telling your "customer" that android would be "fully functional" (there's no "fully functional" build out there!)? Wow very very impressive!!
And despite the fact that "your service" is based on the hard work of someone other than you (who really deserves the money), I am sure that this kind of "phone mechanic" wouldn't spend one single Dollar/Euro on a donation to the developers who made this possible.
This makes me sad. This makes me sick. This makes me very very angry!
My advice to the developers: Cook in a message displayed when Android is started making it clear that their piece of software is experimental, free and can freely be downloaded at xda-developers.com.
I fully second thread starter's posting - DON'T STEAL FROM THE COMMUNITY! DON'T STEAL FROM THE DEVELOPERS! And last but not least: DONATE DAMMIT!
ironheart said:
Please explain this to me - what kind of "service" would you offer? Downloading a rom build by someone else and extracting the file to a sd-card?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, that's a service. There are many people out there who need a helping hand even for the easiest things. (Ganz besonders die Amis ;-) )
problem solved
nevermind...
Damn, already?? You what guys you can't stop this, you'll always have these punks tryin to make money off someones elses back..
My suggestion: (if possible)
I'm just an simple 1st line IT-engineer, so i wont exactly know how to do this but there must be a way to find out under which ip-adress the person is posting from on these sites.. The chance he's a member here is probably very high..
What if we get this ip, and ask the mods to permantly ban this person... ??
Anyone know if this is possible???
I think that will send a message to some people.. But I think this is unstoppable. Damn the Pirates! Shoot them all!
Selling the instructions and packages to someone is wrong but charging someone to set it up on the phone for them because the owner isn't capable of it themselves is fine IMO.
It's no different to somewhere giving away free car batteries and charging $10 if you wanted them to install it. You aren't paying for the batteries (in this case the software), your paying for someone's time to set it up.
Regardless of how easy it is or how freely available the instructions are, if someone wants someone else to do it, it's fair enough that person charge for their time to set it up for them. The value of that time is up to the person paying it.
MMAwarrior said:
What if we get this ip, and ask the mods to permantly ban this person... ??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One of this guys is a member but as long as there are no personal and static IP's for everyone on the planet, ip bans are not working. You can block his region or his ISP but this will block not only him...
Hmmmm, ok so Ip bans are out! only one thing left to do!
Call / mail them meet them, beat em up!
Sounds like a plan to me! I could use the workout!
ironheart said:
Please explain this to me - what kind of "service" would you offer? Downloading a rom build by someone else and extracting the file to a sd-card? And making false promises by telling your "customer" that android would be "fully functional" (there's no "fully functional" build out there!)? Wow very very impressive!!
And despite the fact that "your service" is based on the hard work of someone other than you (who really deserves the money), I am sure that this kind of "phone mechanic" wouldn't spend one single Dollar/Euro on a donation to the developers who made this possible.
This makes me sad. This makes me sick. This makes me very very angry!
My advice to the developers: Cook in a message displayed when Android is started making it clear that their piece of software is experimental, free and can freely be downloaded at xda-developers.com.
I fully second thread starter's posting - DON'T STEAL FROM THE COMMUNITY! DON'T STEAL FROM THE DEVELOPERS! And last but not least: DONATE DAMMIT!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I could see this coming from a mile away. All this thread is going to cause heated debates and eventually name calling. There are always going to be people on both sides of the issue. XDA is place place to develop and share. Its not a place to combat warez or what ever you want to call "selling other people's work". Obviously XDA is against it... if you read the rules.
I totally agree with you on not selling other peoples work and not charging for "your time" but this thread is unnecessary. Its contrary to the goal of this section. Not to mention the already mentioned threats of spamming these sellers. Depending on where you are at this could be considered illegal.
mmafighter077 said:
I could see this coming from a mile away. All this thread is going to cause heated debates and eventually name calling. There are always going to be people on both sides of the issue. XDA is place place to develop and share. Its not a place to combat warez or what ever you want to call "selling other people's work". Obviously XDA is against it... if you read the rules.
I totally agree with you on not selling other peoples work and not charging for "your time" but this thread is unnecessary. Its contrary to the goal of this section. Not to mention the already mentioned threats of spamming these sellers. Depending in where you are at this could be considered illegal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you got a point, it's just that we are real appriciative towards the devs, and can't stand these guys making money off em..
MMAwarrior said:
you got a point, it's just that we are real appriciative towards the devs, and can't stand these guys making money off em..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I get you you... but I just feel if I want flame wars I could go to sherdog. haha.
ironheart said:
Please explain this to me - what kind of "service" would you offer? Downloading a rom build by someone else and extracting the file to a sd-card? And making false promises by telling your "customer" that android would be "fully functional" (there's no "fully functional" build out there!)? Wow very very impressive!!
And despite the fact that "your service" is based on the hard work of someone other than you (who really deserves the money), I am sure that this kind of "phone mechanic" wouldn't spend one single Dollar/Euro on a donation to the developers who made this possible.
This makes me sad. This makes me sick. This makes me very very angry!
My advice to the developers: Cook in a message displayed when Android is started making it clear that their piece of software is experimental, free and can freely be downloaded at xda-developers.com.
I fully second thread starter's posting - DON'T STEAL FROM THE COMMUNITY! DON'T STEAL FROM THE DEVELOPERS! And last but not least: DONATE DAMMIT!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you completely misunderstood what I was saying! Let me go through and disagree with your impression of me, one paragraph at a time:
"Please explain this to me - what kind of "service" would you offer? Downloading a rom build by someone else and extracting the file to a sd-card?"
-Answer- Absolutely. As well as educating the person and ensuring that any additional HSPL, radio, or WinMo rom was installed correctly and was appropriate for their hardware.
"And making false promises by telling your "customer" that android would be "fully functional" (there's no "fully functional" build out there!)? Wow very very impressive!!"
-Answer- Absolutely not, and if you would have taken the time to read my original post, that you quoted, you would have seen that I made provisions for informing people of the community and where they should go for more information on Android on the HD2.
"And despite the fact that "your service" is based on the hard work of someone other than you (who really deserves the money)"
-Answer- Back to the mechanic, I think this one has been cleared up with a battery analogy. Perfectly clear. If you need more explanation than that, I am willing to delve into more comparisons.
"I am sure that this kind of "phone mechanic" wouldn't spend one single Dollar/Euro on a donation to the developers who made this possible."
-Answer- I would be happy to donate to the devs if I were to profit from a service based on their work, out of appreciation AND out of capitalistic interest in potentially further motivating them to continue developing and improving.
"This makes me sad. This makes me sick. This makes me very very angry!"
-Answer- Think about it from a more objective basis and perhaps you can feel less queasy.
"My advice to the developers: Cook in a message displayed when Android is started making it clear that their piece of software is experimental, free and can freely be downloaded at xda-developers.com."
-Answer (even though I am not a dev)- That would be fine with me, possibly even beneficial, especially if the "experimental" part was emphasized to imply that there is some kind of risk or knowledge that should be had prior to going out and just diving into Android.
"I fully second thread starter's posting - DON'T STEAL FROM THE COMMUNITY! DON'T STEAL FROM THE DEVELOPERS! And last but not least: DONATE DAMMIT!"
-Answer- Again, I do not condone stealing intellectual property. However, I believe that distributing the intellectual property of others is not stealing. Ever written a paper? You quote your sources, but YOU get the grade. Your sources never (or extremely rarely) reap any benefit from your work of putting research and experience together to put out a clean, finished product. And donating is fine and good and should be done if you find the software useful.

Off-site Roms and XDA support threads

This has become a stickler point for me.
How exactly do these "roms" that post on xda to gain the large audience with links to thier own sites with thier own forums and downloads do it?
Why does XDA allow the threads to exist?
To me it's a confusing point, on one hand you've got the huge user base that XDA has and it's "helpful" but on the other hand these "roms" have chosen to move else where to have a clear cut definition of "who" their users are.
I for one would love to see xda delete these threads, if your rom isnt hosted here why should XDA pick up the tab on the traffic and moderation to "support" the people that don't want to follow basic rules.
It's one thing to post on here saying that it's out it's quite another to have a thread devoted to the rom for "support" when they've got their own site and thier own "donation" setup and don't offer direct links to the roms.
I'm thinking of Bonsai and Baked Snack when I say this, although other sites like ppcgeeks are guilty of it as well.
Here's the breakdown...
Baked snack was a rom a while back that Herver ran, he had people that loved his roms, but he wouldnt share his gpl code, so XDA to avoid issues banned him and removes his threads.
Bonsai started up thier own "business oriented and non-hobby"(randy's words) website and started offering up betas to people that donated, BANNING people that would share this beta software if they found out.(or so his users have said)
PPCGeeks.com basically is a forum that has very little of it's own content and tends to backlink to threads here on XDA. This should not be allowed. it's cheap and annoying to think that other forums all link back to xda but refuse to use and follow it's rules touting it as the devil for thier moderators sucking and other offhanded badness, while at the same time using it's resources for thier own gain.
If you want to follow the XDA rules on rom posting fine. Post here. If you want to have your own site to support the rom fine have the site, but if you get removed from the site for not following the rules, do NOT expect to keep using it to support your users.
The rules of posting should be simple.
If you post a rom in a thread there should NOT be an external sign up on said site to get the rom.
If you post a rom, there should NOT be a pay to play system in place to get "advanced" copies,(nor a "shopping cart" for the rom)
If you post a rom, there SHOULD be a direct link or mirror link to the rom.
If you post a rom, there should be open disclosure and read-only sources to what you've done.
In essence i for one WANT to see all support threads for non-hosted on XDA roms removed, they put a burden on XDA to moderate, the put a burden on XDA for bandwidth and hardware, and they cause undue traffic to those that don't want to play by the rules they signed up for.
Side note, i'd love to see hotlinking from other sites also disabled on XDA to stop those crap spring up offshoot websites thinking they're better and "more laid back" from not having to bother with their own content and users.
Analogy time:
Think of it like this... You've spent a lot of time and money to make a large car lot, you allow others of the community who've used your car lot to gather and sell their own cars on your lot free of charge. It all runs fine until along comes one person that feels they should be allowed to use the facilities of the lot for only themselves and break ruin the good bathroom, now they setup thier own bathroom close to thier table but only people that come to thier table and purchase a car may use this bathroom. After a little while you find that they have opened up their own car lot across the street. You ask them to take their cars elsewhere, and remove them from your lot. BUT they setup a table on your lot and take up valuable real-estate to "answer questions" about their car lot across the street AND about their cars. while using your facilities and security etc. Would you do that in normal circumstances? or would you remove their table as well and let them use their own car lot as a support and sales team for their own cars?
Anyways, thats my take on the whole off-site roms but XDA support.
Add thanks to this if you support this idea, OR post away and add something new to the conversation, *I* personally think that XDA should take a hand in removing these threads from here as they are a detriment to the community that exists and undermines the ideals attached to opensource projects.
I definitely agree with Art3mis on this one. Its ridiculous that they are still allowed to have support threads (and more that they even have support threads instead of just having them all on their own private forums as they either, didnt follow the rules of XDA, or left at their own accord).
Yeah it annoys me that bonsai still has support threads here.
you are right and i agree 100% with everything except this:
art3mis-nyc said:
Side note, i'd love to see hotlinking from other sites also disabled on XDA to stop those crap spring up offshoot websites thinking they're better and "more laid back" from not having to bother with their own content and users.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hotlinking from other sites is how all the roms are posted whether it be private domains or sites like multiupload. there is an 8meg limit on xda attachments...so big 100+ meg rom downloads have to be linked from somewhere else to save xda's bandwidth. i personally like hosting my own files and giving direct links in threads because i can look at awstats and know how many times a file has been hit.
on that same note i agree there should be a direct link...and i mean a real direct link....not a redirect to sign up or a redirect to an ad page or anything like that...the rest of your article i agree 100%
Then don't click on the thread?? Is it really that hard?
art3mis-nyc said:
This has become a stickler point for me......(other stuff)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Get off your high horse. You are no dev (not even cut and paste) and no mod.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk
XDA doesn't allow software that breaks the rules or off-site competition, but they allow discussion of said software. Kind of counter-intuitive, really.
Rodderik said:
hotlinking from other sites is how all the roms are posted whether it be private domains or sites like multiupload. there is an 8meg limit on xda attachments...so big 100+ meg rom downloads have to be linked from somewhere else to save xda's bandwidth.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think he means other websites hotlinking to XDA.
All the Bonsai support threads are gone, and have been for a long while. The only thing left is the user discussion thread in the General section. It's for news and users helping other users. Everyone knows where to go for dev support when it comes to Bonsai.
But there are a couple reasons why the thread exists. First off, it doesn't break any XDA rules. They would have to break their own rules or create new ones to get rid of it. The other reason is XDA does not want to remove it. Anything that is considered controversial gets hits. The more hits, the better for advertising revenue . Every time someone tries to start a Bonsai hate thread of *****es about why it exists, people come along and either argue or agree with the OP. XDA does not care one way or the other, they get paid the same.
As Randy stated here-
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=15035075&postcount=1026
He has made every attempt to work things out, but it has been a one way process.
Deleted. Counter productive.
Sent from me!
tl;dr
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
I think this whole thing is kind of silly. The analygy given by the OP isn't even close. In xda, no physical damage was done and nothing illegal was done. You might as well been comparing a frog to a cow .
I am a huge proponent of open source, but as a business owner, I know that time is very important and good developers should be paid.
In other open source industries (I will use Drupal.org as my example), commercial and opensource get along just fine. There are many commercial companies (acquia.com) that's entire business is providing service and support for the open source products they use and promote. The commercial companies have made the open source community way stronger in these last few years. Another example would be Linux, Canonical the business backing Ubuntu.
Those industries have standards too and don't allow any non-GPL (back to the Drupal example) code to be committed in there repository. They still allow commercial companies with closed source to participate.
The "groups" (bonsai, etc...) that are talked about here are still contributing to the the community. They may not be doing it according to xda's rules, but that doesn't mean they aren't contributing.
I understand xda's motives for disallowing closed source stuff in the forums. But banning everyones ability to talk about sites outside of the forum is ridiculous. Thats like saying "we encourage and love open source" but "we hate open (source) communication".
Lastly, why you throwing PPCGeeks under the bus. Before my epic I owned 3 winmo phones. I could find way more CDMA winmo roms on PPCgeeks than I ever found on xda. Fixes were rolled out fast and the winmo community on ppcgeeks was very strong.
Rodderik said:
you are right and i agree 100% with everything except this:
hotlinking from other sites is how all the roms are posted whether it be private domains or sites like multiupload. there is an 8meg limit on xda attachments...so big 100+ meg rom downloads have to be linked from somewhere else to save xda's bandwidth. i personally like hosting my own files and giving direct links in threads because i can look at awstats and know how many times a file has been hit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is more in relation to say i started a "forum" for Superawesomeroms.com and then i have nothing to post so all i do is post links to XDA threads all the while bemoaning and berating XDA for thier crap moderation and blah blah blah blah
Well, I for one post my content here, ppcgeeks, and ACS. Obviously most of the traffic I get is here.
What I can say is that other sites linking to xda is how I found this site. I was on ppcgeeks a few months before xda, and found xda through a link off their site. I also link back to xda quite often when I'm trying to help other on another site. What that shows me is that other sites linking back to xda drives traffic here.
Traffic=revenue. Guess I don't see the problem with that.
art3mis-nyc said:
This has become a stickler point for me.
How exactly do these "roms" that post on xda to gain the large audience with links to thier own sites with thier own forums and downloads do it?
Why does XDA allow the threads to exist?
To me it's a confusing point, on one hand you've got the huge user base that XDA has and it's "helpful" but on the other hand these "roms" have chosen to move else where to have a clear cut definition of "who" their users are.
I for one would love to see xda delete these threads, if your rom isnt hosted here why should XDA pick up the tab on the traffic and moderation to "support" the people that don't want to follow basic rules.
It's one thing to post on here saying that it's out it's quite another to have a thread devoted to the rom for "support" when they've got their own site and thier own "donation" setup and don't offer direct links to the roms.
I'm thinking of Bonsai and Baked Snack when I say this, although other sites like ppcgeeks are guilty of it as well.
Here's the breakdown...
Baked snack was a rom a while back that Herver ran, he had people that loved his roms, but he wouldnt share his gpl code, so XDA to avoid issues banned him and removes his threads.
Bonsai started up thier own "business oriented and non-hobby"(randy's words) website and started offering up betas to people that donated, BANNING people that would share this beta software if they found out.(or so his users have said)
PPCGeeks.com basically is a forum that has very little of it's own content and tends to backlink to threads here on XDA. This should not be allowed. it's cheap and annoying to think that other forums all link back to xda but refuse to use and follow it's rules touting it as the devil for thier moderators sucking and other offhanded badness, while at the same time using it's resources for thier own gain.
If you want to follow the XDA rules on rom posting fine. Post here. If you want to have your own site to support the rom fine have the site, but if you get removed from the site for not following the rules, do NOT expect to keep using it to support your users.
The rules of posting should be simple.
If you post a rom in a thread there should NOT be an external sign up on said site to get the rom.
If you post a rom, there should NOT be a pay to play system in place to get "advanced" copies,(nor a "shopping cart" for the rom)
If you post a rom, there SHOULD be a direct link or mirror link to the rom.
If you post a rom, there should be open disclosure and read-only sources to what you've done.
In essence i for one WANT to see all support threads for non-hosted on XDA roms removed, they put a burden on XDA to moderate, the put a burden on XDA for bandwidth and hardware, and they cause undue traffic to those that don't want to play by the rules they signed up for.
Side note, i'd love to see hotlinking from other sites also disabled on XDA to stop those crap spring up offshoot websites thinking they're better and "more laid back" from not having to bother with their own content and users.
Analogy time:
Think of it like this... You've spent a lot of time and money to make a large car lot, you allow others of the community who've used your car lot to gather and sell their own cars on your lot free of charge. It all runs fine until along comes one person that feels they should be allowed to use the facilities of the lot for only themselves and break ruin the good bathroom, now they setup thier own bathroom close to thier table but only people that come to thier table and purchase a car may use this bathroom. After a little while you find that they have opened up their own car lot across the street. You ask them to take their cars elsewhere, and remove them from your lot. BUT they setup a table on your lot and take up valuable real-estate to "answer questions" about their car lot across the street AND about their cars. while using your facilities and security etc. Would you do that in normal circumstances? or would you remove their table as well and let them use their own car lot as a support and sales team for their own cars?
Anyways, thats my take on the whole off-site roms but XDA support.
Add thanks to this if you support this idea, OR post away and add something new to the conversation, *I* personally think that XDA should take a hand in removing these threads from here as they are a detriment to the community that exists and undermines the ideals attached to opensource projects.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As long as your calling everyone else out. Mentioning a competitive site, I do believe, is against the rules.
Guys, these are just phones and at this point why even bring this up? I'm not suggesting that the rules be ignored but everyone constantly getting bent out of shape over this stuff isn't productive or even healthy for that matter.
PLEASE, just let the Bonsai thing just die already. They made their choice and no matter how many people complain about it, is't going to change anything. All it does is start flame wars. If you have something to say to them I suggest you contact them directly and give them a chance to address the concerns directly.
Why can't we do something.......anything...but complain. Does anyone stop to think that Bonsai leaving for setting up their site the way they did has little to nothing to do with the direction the Epic forums are going in? It's bad attitudes and feelings of entitlement that are KILLING this forum, IMHO. Stop complaining and contribute to positive change. If we focus on the negative all the time that's all we are going to get.
If any threads should be deleted it is ones talking about other phones. There are forums for those. This is the Samsung Epic forum, that is the phone I have chosen for 2 years and only want to see threads about those. If an accessory or ROM is avaliable off XA for it, I want to know about it. I don't give a crap about the EVO 3d or Within or any otherstupid little phone that comes out. XDA has a general forum for that and most of these have their own forums. Don't clutter our threads with that garbage, or whiny kids saying "it's official our phone is a piece of crap"! This is the clutter that needs to be removed. Not a single thread for an offsite ROM.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
icevapor said:
I think this whole thing is kind of silly. The analygy given by the OP isn't even close. In xda, no physical damage was done and nothing illegal was done. You might as well been comparing a frog to a cow .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not really it's a valid argument, and while you dont see it, BW useage etc is a hit when it supports items that arent on the site itself.
icevapor said:
I am a huge proponent of open source, but as a business owner, I know that time is very important and good developers should be paid.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some very fine work perhaps the best work as far as the epic goes, is from people that do it for fun and hobby, and dont ask for donations and in some cases dont even have a link for it, yet others believe as you do apperantly that they should be able to take the others work, rename it and change it and "sell" it(ie the Bonsai clockworkmod that they simply renamed and recoloured) as noted i'm fine with charging for support, it's the software i dont like the charging to exist for.
icevapor said:
In other open source industries (I will use Drupal.org as my example), commercial and opensource get along just fine. There are many commercial companies (acquia.com) that's entire business is providing service and support for the open source products they use and promote. The commercial companies have made the open source community way stronger in these last few years. Another example would be Linux, Canonical the business backing Ubuntu.
Those industries have standards too and don't allow any non-GPL (back to the Drupal example) code to be committed in there repository. They still allow commercial companies with closed source to participate.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The difference between that and this is that the Opensource lives along side, doesnt require a signup and in most cases is "on par" with the pay version, again you're paying for support, which im fine with, but the software is available to all or none, not to who pays.(minus some features of course but rarely advanced beta copies etc)
icevapor said:
The "groups" (bonsai, etc...) that are talked about here are still contributing to the the community. They may not be doing it according to xda's rules, but that doesn't mean they aren't contributing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't think of a single thing that has been contributed back, aside from the kernel fiasco for marcusants "psuedo rom"
icevapor said:
Lastly, why you throwing PPCGeeks under the bus. Before my epic I owned 3 winmo phones. I could find way more CDMA winmo roms on PPCgeeks than I ever found on xda. Fixes were rolled out fast and the winmo community on ppcgeeks was very strong.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ppcgeeks was the first site that i noticed it on and while it's not directed specifically at them, they are guilty of the above mentioned content links.
i'm not scared of negativity
and you shouldn't be either
if discussing negativity means thats all you will end up with
then ask yourself who is the real source of negativity?
deciding your fate...premonitions?
let it roll
if you never go there...you will never get it out of your system
and i'm sure thats why anyone would participate in this thread to begin with
so do it, and dig deep
just try and be as respectful as possible in your aims
dont cloud this life with misconstrued karma
if you cannot understand someones apparent stance and it appears ignorant or childish,
then try and be the bigger person and post something constructive they can actually do
otherwise you are just bickering for the sake of it
before i get too far off topic
if xda's main goal is truly web traffic...then thats what the userbase is going to comprise of...otherwise you are just out of place and belong elsewhere.
if you are just part of traffic then dont claim to be a leader with every post you make
and vise versa...dont get lost in the traffic when you know damn well you have something to offer the community that is truly valuable. Everyone has a part to play, dont care how many babies are born today.
If in fact this is truly xda's goal...who knows...the site is large...plenty of room for emotion to find its way in.
Life is useful. (dental dams are your friend)
And above all...hitler was nothing compared to billions the russians killed of their own people...
History...it owns people every day.
Stand for something better than the illegitimate use/abuse of people.
Especially when most of these things being created are not very reliable and designed to support jobs and sales and an economy and false hopes and everything that goes along with a society that throws its lives to the foothold of a dollar bill that is utterly useless in the reality of the universe.
Real answers are not easy...take the time as much as you possibly can.
LISTEN
and when you think you cannot take anymore without putting in your two cents
LISTEN SOME MORE
there are plenty of people just hanging around that have been through it all and seen it
and you can stop acting anytime like you are one of them
real life steps in before anyone could ever make a worthwhile decision
humans...making decisions for others since breakfast
tough titties?
we'll see who's talking then...when?
the sooner the sooner
mattallica76 said:
The only thing [Bonsai] left is the user discussion thread in the General section. It's for news and users helping other users.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't say whether this is ideal or not. However, folks are going to ask about Bonsai whether discussion is allowed or not. Thus, it's arguably prudent to allow one thread for its discussion to avoid having it being asked about repeatedly in new threads.
shane6374 said:
What I can say is that other sites linking to xda is how I found this site.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is perhaps the most important point of the thread. However it happened, xda became the definitive resource for phone hackery. If xda were to forbid off-site hotlinking, that would have the result, both direct (PageRank, robots exclusion, etc.) and indirect (through absence of news articles and other discussion) of sinking it in search results. At which point--at best--some other site would become definitive and discussion would move there, or quite possibly, no one site would emerge as definitive and discussion would become horribly fragmented.
To be honest, the primary reason I post patches here with lengthy technical descriptions is becuase, in 3-6 months time, I know someone Googling a similar problem will come across my threads and find an answer. The fact that it also contributes code to this community is a wonderful secondary benefit, but to be honest, discussion and ROM development is too ephemeral to make it worth the effort if Google wasn't around to archive the result. And it's far easier for me to do it here, and gets far more exposure and use, than if I were to run my own blog or something.
ptfdmedic said:
As long as your calling everyone else out. Mentioning a competitive site, I do believe, is against the rules.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah yeah, pedantic argument.
ptfdmedic said:
Guys, these are just phones and at this point why even bring this up? I'm not suggesting that the rules be ignored but everyone constantly getting bent out of shape over this stuff isn't productive or even healthy for that matter.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
oh im not bent out of shape, that post would have been a lot more incoherent if i was.
ptfdmedic said:
PLEASE, just let the Bonsai thing just die already. They made their choice and no matter how many people complain about it, is't going to change anything. All it does is start flame wars. If you have something to say to them I suggest you contact them directly and give them a chance to address the concerns directly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it's called an example. Happens to be the most obvious so it's used.
btw i did contact them directly and thats how i came to the quote from randy stating that Bonsai is not a hobby it's a business.
and then the tired out saying of "i for one like to pay for good software rant" while touting the virtues of opensource.(<3 me some hypocrites)
ptfdmedic said:
Why can't we do something.......anything...but complain. Does anyone stop to think that Bonsai leaving for setting up their site the way they did has little to nothing to do with the direction the Epic forums are going in? It's bad attitudes and feelings of entitlement that are KILLING this forum, IMHO. Stop complaining and contribute to positive change. If we focus on the negative all the time that's all we are going to get.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this isn't negative unless you read it that way, i honestly want it to change, and to find out WHY it exists.
People commenting and saying we should "all get along" sadly contribute nothing(good nor bad) to a thread.
mkasick said:
I can't say whether this is ideal or not. However, folks are going to ask about Bonsai whether discussion is allowed or not. Thus, it's arguably prudent to allow one thread for its discussion to avoid having it being asked about repeatedly in new threads.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You would think so, but the same can't be said towards heros' rom, many threads are started to talk about it are quickly killed and its poster banned.. so it's sort of a double edged.

Proprietary Viewsonic Gtablet Android Binaries & Drivers Pack

Viewsonic Gtablet Specific Binaries & Drivers​
For everyone who may have been waiting for this I present to you the proper Proprietary Viewsonic Gtablet Binaries & Drivers according to Cyanogen Mods Tutorial of Compiling Gingerbread Rom which also discusses how to pull the Proprietary Drivers and Binaries from a Malata smb_a1002 Device which is a Viewsonic Gtablet specifically.
To all who want to test with these Binaries and Drivers before testing with these please understand that these are the Binaries and Drivers the Viewsonic Gtablet Stock ROM uses. When using these specific Binaries and Drivers understand that these files may already exist and that replacing just one of these can disrupt the way a current ROM may be running. This can be caused for a number of reasons...
1. When replacing the libraries and binaries with these understand the alot of these specific files are tied together to make the Gtablet work the way it does, so in essence replacing one of these libraries or binaries with one on another ROM can cause the ROM itself to look for the other libraries and binary files that are specifically in this package.
2. You may get away with mixing and mingling these files but it's a hard and time consuming process to debug which ones can and can't work with other vendors binaries and libraries but this is how the work must be done
3. If there is a file missing do not blame me this is what I know according to Cyanogen MODs Wiki. If you wan to view there tutorial go to there website, and look through there WIKI.
Proprietary Android Binaries & Drivers: http://linuxboxsolution.com/linux-b...t-Proprietary-Android-Binaries--and--Drivers/
Issues have seemed to be resolved with submission to github.
That zip file would've been slightly more useful had it contained the original paths of those proprietary files.
Issues have seemed to be resolved with submission to github.
** deleted **
Thanks for the work LBS
mmenzie said:
can a MODERATOR please step in on this??? the above comments do NOTHING to further the development of this or any other thing!!! i'm not a developer or anything... i am just a tester testing all the wonderful things all the Devs let us test. are you a developer??? are you a programmer??? are you even using the products of this developer??? i am guessing the answer is NO to all questions. if thats the case please just sit back and read and do not interact with this thread or any other thread where your business is to knock the product. unless you are a developer, a programmer, or a tester willing to add CONSTRUCTIVE CRITISIM or "thank yous" there is no need for you to post anything at all in this or any other thread.
CONSTRUCTIVE CRITISIM and helpful hints and positive feedback are the only things that further development and we should all consider this before making a post.
i will now climb down from my soap box and let thgis get back on topic (hopefully)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Critisism and words of caution are equally as important as praise.
Be wary of of folks trumpetting the quality of their product to increase profit while doing nothing to provide evidence to support those claims.
That said, what TnT build do these files come from and are they different than what is used in CM7 or some of the AOSP based projects ?
nunjabusiness said:
What exactly does this group of files bring to the table?
If it is simply the extracted stuff from the original TapNCrap that it came with, the only thing I can think of that we are really missing now in the HC ROMs is camera support.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In my eyes the only major issues with HC are:
1 camera support (possibly fixed with these files)
2 hardware acceleration (probaly not fixed with these files)
So, one of the two major HC drawbacks might be fixed. IMO camera support isn't as importent as hardware acceleration, but it's still on my 'must have' list. Who cares if camera support came from TapNCrap, as long as it works?
All of the HC ROMS are on par with each other (pre-packaged apps and launchers aside) so if one HC ROM gets camera working then that would be the better ROM IMO.
ramerco said:
That said, what TnT build do these files come from and are they different than what is used in CM7 or some of the AOSP based projects ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Excellent question, I'd like to know the answer too. Does it come from a ROM with keyboard/mouse support, for example?
macbroom said:
Another attempt to drive your site traffic up for profit using open source material.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I went to his site and I saw no ads, no banners, no links for a donation or links to other products. MAybe those links were there but they were not prominent, so it hardly looks like an ad scheme, it's not like thousands of people will flock to his site to download files and be drawn into his tangled web of crafty salesmanship. How many people are developing ROMs for the gTab?
Why does it matter if it's his site vs another site?
edirector said:
His behavior is like cyber bullying because he is following this developer from forum to forum to post often-times character assassinating stuff. He might want to consider someone pulling his ip address and seeing who he really is and if he is affecting the developers income, be sued.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you have very little knowledge of the law in general and zero about civil law as it relates to defamation.
Regardless of provocation, please do not threaten legal action against someone (albeit groundless) as that is just as heinous a violation of forum rules.
Here they are for your edification (I particularly like #8 and #12):
Forum & Marketplace Rules
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FORUM RULES
1. Search before posting.
Use one of our search functions before posting, whether you have a question or something new to share, it's very likely someone already asked that question or shared that news.
2. Member conduct.
2.1 Language: XDA is a worldwide community. As a result what is ‘ok’ to say in your part of the world may not be ok in someone else’s part of the world. Please think about who is reading what you write. Keep in mind that what you think of as acceptable use of language may not be acceptable to others. Conversely, while reading member posts, remember that word you find offensive may not be to the writer. Tolerance is a two way street.
2.2 Nudity: XDA is used by people of all ages, including minors. It's not acceptable to post nude/pornographic imagery, which includes exposure of the male or female genitalia or of female breasts.
2.3 Flaming: XDA was founded as a group of people sharing information about certain mobile phones. Sharing does not involve virtual yelling (flaming) it does involve working together to solve problems in an environment of mutual respect and understanding. Losing your temper and flaming another member, or group of members, is not acceptable behavior.
2.4 Personal attacks, racial, political and/or religious discussions: XDA is a discussion forum about certain mobile phones. Mobile phones are not racial, political, religious or personally offensive, therefore none of these types of discussions are permitted on XDA.
2.5 New Members: Treat new members the way you would have liked to have been treated when you were a new member. Provide the new members with guidance, advice and instruction always with respect and courtesy.
2.6 All members are expected to read and adhere to the XDA rules.
3. Post only using a clear subject and message.
You're most likely to receive a helpful answer to your question if you use a short subject title that describes your problem and a message that explains in detail what your problem is and what you've tried to solve it.
4. Use the English language.
We understand that with all the different nationalities not everyone speaks English well, but please try. If you're really unable to post in English use an online translator, You're free to include your original message in your own language below the English translation.
5. Post a message only once.
As a large forum we don't need unnecessary clutter, You're free to edit your message as you like, so if you do not receive an answer revisit your message and see if you can describe your problem better. Not everyone is online at the same time, it might take a while before you receive an answer.
6. Do not post warez.
If a piece of software requires you to pay to use it, either pay or find your cracks and serials somewhere else. We do not accept warez nor do we permit any member to promote or describe ways in which Warez, cracks, serial codes or other means of avoiding payment, can be obtained.
7. Do not spam.
If you wish to advertise a product, contact us we provide ads. But do not post it in the forums, it will be removed and you're likely to receive a ban.
You are however allowed to sell used goods like your own device, parts of your device or accessories for your device in the marketplace forum, please read the rules there before posting. (This rule includes signatures, if you use a signature it will appear in your post)
8. Donations.
We appreciate all donations to xda-developers.com, it keeps our forum online and well maintained. As a user you're allowed to ask for donations in your signature as a thank you for your hard work. However donations up front are not allowed, this forum is about sharing, not about getting paid to do something, that's what your job is for.
9. Don't get us in trouble.
Don't post copyrighted materials or do other things that will obviously lead to legal trouble. If you wouldn't do it on your own homepage, you probably don't want to do it here either. This does not mean we agree with everything the software piracy lobby try to impose on us, it simply means you cannot break any laws here, since we'll end up dealing with legal hassle caused by you. Please use common sense: respect the forum, its users, and those that write great code.
10. Help others if you can.
If you see posts from others where you can help out, please do. This place exists because people are helping each other, and even if you are relatively new to the matter, there's probably already quite a few people newer than you that would benefit from what you've learned. Don't be shy.
11. Don’t post with the intention of selling something.
•Don’t use XDA to advertise your product or service. Proprietors of for-pay products or services, may use XDA to get feedback, provide beta access, or a free version of their product for XDA users and offer support, but not to post with the intention of selling. This includes promoting sites similar/substantially similar to XDA-Developers.com.
•Do not post press releases, announcements, links to trial software, or commercial services. unless you’re posting an exclusive release for XDA-Developers.com.
•Encouraging members to participate in forum activities on other phone related sites is prohibited.
•Off-site downloads are permitted if the site is non-commercial and does not require registration.
•Off-site downloads from sites requiring registration are NOT encouraged but may be permitted if the following conditions are met:
A) the site belongs to a member of XDA-Developers with at least 1500 posts and 2 years membership who actively maintains XDA-Developers' support thread(s) / posts, related to the download,
B) the site is a relatively small personal website without commercial advertising/links (i.e. not a competitor forum-based site with purposes and aims similar to those of XDA-Developers.com.)
12. Using the work of others.
If you are developing something that is based on the work of another Member, you MUST first seek their permission, and you must give credit to the member whose work you used. If a dispute occurs about who developed / created a piece of work, first try to settle the matter by private message and NOT in open forum. If this fails then you may contact a moderator with clear evidence that the work was created by you.
Convincing evidence will result in copied work being removed. If there is no clear evidence you created the work then in the spirit of sharing all work will remain posted on the forums.
These rules apply to all software posted on XDA unless that software comes with a license that waives these rules.
What if macbroom and LBS are the same person. He created an alter ego just to stir interest and attention to himself because he loves it. Twist!
Directed by M. Night Shamwamthankyoumam
nunjabusiness said:
...
Here they are for your edification (I particularly like #8 and #12):
...
8. Donations.
We appreciate all donations to xda-developers.com, it keeps our forum online and well maintained. As a user you're allowed to ask for donations in your signature as a thank you for your hard work. However donations up front are not allowed, this forum is about sharing, not about getting paid to do something, that's what your job is for.
12. Using the work of others.
If you are developing something that is based on the work of another Member, you MUST first seek their permission, and you must give credit to the member whose work you used. If a dispute occurs about who developed / created a piece of work, first try to settle the matter by private message and NOT in open forum. If this fails then you may contact a moderator with clear evidence that the work was created by you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well said.
The vast majority of the responses in this thread are pretty shameful. And I think the most a moderator could do is edit some of these comments (which, imo, they should).
Some advise - on occasion I've lost my cool and written things I later regretted. I suggest that some of you use the edit button, clean up the hateful comments and maybe drop in a "I apologize" retraction while you're at it.
And @LBS, keep in mind that most people do appreciate what you do (myself included). I know how hard it is to make ROM's, and support them, but there will always be a few bad apples. I have pulled back from here (and Slatedroid and TR) this summer as I decompress a bit, so I'm not sure if there's some history outside of this thread which created this tension. But from my vantage point, all LBS is doing is using his own web site to better control how he disseminates information. How is that any different than what goodintentions is doing, for example? Isn't the end goal to help users make the most of their GTAB?
bebopblues said:
What if macbroom and LBS are the same person. He created an alter ego just to stir interest and attention to himself because he loves it. Twist!
Directed by M. Night Shamwamthankyoumam
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol! WHAT A TWIST! Well done on the robot chicken reference
roebeet said:
The vast majority of the responses in this thread are pretty shameful. And I think the most a moderator could do is edit some of these comments (which, imo, they should).
Some advise - on occasion I've lost my cool and written things I later regretted. I suggest that some of you use the edit button, clean up the hateful comments and maybe drop in a "I apologize" retraction while you're at it.
And @LBS, keep in mind that most people do appreciate what you do (myself included). I know how hard it is to make ROM's, and support them, but there will always be a few bad apples. I have pulled back from here (and Slatedroid and TR) this summer as I decompress a bit, so I'm not sure if there's some history outside of this thread which created this tension. But from my vantage point, all LBS is doing is using his own web site to better control how he disseminates information. How is that any different than what goodintentions is doing, for example? Isn't the end goal to help users make the most of their GTAB?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you, Roebeet I have been tirelessly supporting LBS's effort. It was starting to feel like a full time job. I am glad you jumped in. It is bad when conversation is not about the rom but gets more personal in nature. People were coming at me because I expressed my like of his work which is pretty darn good at that. But you know I am a fan of your work too. You pioneered the HC rom industry for G Tab, so you know we appreciate you. I trbardelljr I hope I got his name right of Flashback is doing an incredible job as well even though I haven't tried his rom yet. My problem is I got hooked on illuminate because it is that good.
I noticed some have gotten into the dual rom running and I might try that so I can check out different roms at the same time, too.
Enjoy your down time. We look forward to your return.
roebeet said:
The vast majority of the responses in this thread are pretty shameful. And I think the most a moderator could do is edit some of these comments (which, imo, they should).
Some advise - on occasion I've lost my cool and written things I later regretted. I suggest that some of you use the edit button, clean up the hateful comments and maybe drop in a "I apologize" retraction while you're at it.
And @LBS, keep in mind that most people do appreciate what you do (myself included). I know how hard it is to make ROM's, and support them, but there will always be a few bad apples. I have pulled back from here (and Slatedroid and TR) this summer as I decompress a bit, so I'm not sure if there's some history outside of this thread which created this tension. But from my vantage point, all LBS is doing is using his own web site to better control how he disseminates information. How is that any different than what goodintentions is doing, for example? Isn't the end goal to help users make the most of their GTAB?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have edited some of my posts in the interest of cleaning up some of the residual mess in this thread. I also suggest that some others do the same so we can get back on track.
I hope that you are enjoying your break and time with your family and we all hope that you will return in the near future. You were the main reason that I purchased my Gtab.
P.S. You may also want to edit your last post after catching up on the other threads.
macbroom said:
I have edited some of my posts in the interest of cleaning up some of the residual mess in this thread. I also suggest that some others do the same so we can get back on track.
I hope that you are enjoying your break and time with your family and we all hope that you will return in the near future. You were the main reason that I purchased my Gtab.
P.S. You may also want to edit your last post after catching up on the other threads.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just went back and re-read the posts I have made in the past couple of weeks here and stand behind every one 100%.
Now ... on the OTHER forum I (and others) may have gotten a little bit too zealous in some posts but ultimately, the mods agreed with us and locked the threads.
To be completely fair though, none of those posts got really combative until "autistic" started it.
Hey,
Folks, there is a new version of illuminate that was released yesterday that is outstanding... to spin off on from the fact we are on LBS's thread. While many of us may not know how to use these "binaries and drivers" but LBS and other devs do and they are more then likely included somewhere in his updated rom. It is a pretty incredible HC rom.
The speed on it is astounding with no hick-ups. I spent last night driving it hard just to see what it could do and matching the differences in his previous releases. It is pretty incredible. Loads multimedia files...pics, videos and music like they are text.
Update from the LBS kernel thread
jerdog said:
Kernel source needs provided as per GPL. All this looks like is a rebranding of someone else's kernel - to dispel that belief please provide source and changes or else this will be removed as it would be in violation of the rules.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmm, deja vu anyone?
macbroom said:
I have edited some of my posts in the interest of cleaning up some of the residual mess in this thread. I also suggest that some others do the same so we can get back on track.
I hope that you are enjoying your break and time with your family and we all hope that you will return in the near future. You were the main reason that I purchased my Gtab.
P.S. You may also want to edit your last post after catching up on the other threads.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had mentioned that I wasn't sure if there was a history, but I suspected that there might be as these things usually are a slow boil. Since I've been out-of-the-loop, if there were other threads I hadn't seen them, at least not yet.
Honestly, I haven't delved into these other HC ROMs recently, so I don't know what's in them. So I can't base an opinion unless I ripped them apart -- the last one I did open up was Flashback, so I know that tlbardelljr had some unique stuff in the framework.
The point was that people need to be careful as these things can be taken out of context if they don't know the history (if there is a history). I know this from personal experience, unfortunately.

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