Database Users

Wisbar and Wisbar Desktop - Or SIMILAR SHAREWARE ?

Hi all,
I am a Newbie here !!
Just wondering if anyone here has the Latest WORKING VERSION of Wisbar and Wisbar Desktop . or Something Similar In Shareware Category
jeasbe'

you can download a working version from www.lakeridgesoftware.com

QuaCKeReD said:
you can download a working version from www.lakeridgesoftware.com
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Thanx ! It says : Price: $9.99 USD
I just spent on the New Phone....
I was wondering if ...........any thing that keeps on working forever
(anything Similar that does Not Put Load on the 200 Mhz like the O2 Plus

jeasbe said:
QuaCKeReD said:
you can download a working version from www.lakeridgesoftware.com
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Thanx ! It says : Price: $9.99 USD
I just spent on the New Phone....
I was wondering if ...........any thing that keeps on working forever
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Click to collapse
Well, if you buy it, there's no reason it shouldn't.

chris who writes the software does an awsome job and deservs all the support he can get. if u can spend the $$$ on a nice pda spend some on the best software u can use

Jeasbe,
I am sorry mate but it is people like you that makes it so hard for developers to continue all their hard work, you should be banned forever from this forum.
Sorry to everyone else I will climb down my soapbox now.

Mikebj said:
Jeasbe,
I am sorry mate but it is people like you that makes it so hard for developers to continue all their hard work, you should be banned forever from this forum.
Sorry to everyone else I will climb down my soapbox now.
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Click to collapse
Well said mike - we wont make you PM at the moment, maybe a MP though! :wink:

Mark,
We are into development our selfes so it really makes me loose it when I see requests like this.
I guess people simply dont realize how many man hours is spent on developing, testing, remove bugs, more testing etc., to finally see some clever kid crack the security (if any) and give it away for free, or even worse selling compiled CD's with all the latest software on Ebay.
LOL I am really sorry, just cant help my self.
*Mike swiftly climbs dow again*

Mikebj said:
Mark,
We are into development our selfes so it really makes me loose it when I see requests like this.
I guess people simply dont realize how many man hours is spent on developing, testing, remove bugs, more testing etc., to finally see some clever kid crack the security (if any) and give it away for free, or even worse selling compiled CD's with all the latest software on Ebay.
LOL I am really sorry, just cant help my self.
*Mike swiftly climbs dow again*
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I totally agree mike it really bugs me too -$10 is nothing for a program, most PPC programs are cheap, so its not a problem really. Out of interest what software do you develop?

Mark,
We are working on a very promising program right now, and all I can say at the moment is that it has something to do with an alternative to Itunes for Ipod's.
Othervise we work for companies developing frontends for their databases like MS SQL Server, and Access(though that is getting less and less) either as stand alone programs or integrated as a dynamic website.
We have just replaced our phones with O2 XDA Mini S(don't know how we could ever live without them lol) and have all ready had some ideas for a few pieces of software/utilities for them, so lets see when we can find the time to do something about it.
All I need now is a Tom Tom kit so my Ipaq can go in the car and be upgraded to my super navigator lol.

Mikebj said:
Mark,
We are working on a very promising program right now, and all I can say at the moment is that it has something to do with an alternative to Itunes for Ipod's.
quote]
Well please keep the forum informed of progress of above program if possible - sounds good. I use my wizard alot for playing music - love those stereo speakers!
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It always amuses me that people can drop $300 on a new device, but somehow can't seem to afford a $10 software application.
The really sad thing is they just don't understand what an incredible bargain they're getting in a software title like WisBar.
:roll:
Just gotta wonder...

I had a go with the trial version of Wisbar, but binned it when I found the skins don't work properly when I switched to landscape mode. I'd maybe consider paying for it if it worked properly. :roll:

Hi New version now works fine with the Wizard and landscape switch
Give it a try
Jules

jeasbe: as you may have noticed, the name of this site is xda developers. Although most of us develop stuff that is free anyway, all developing takes time and effort and potential divorce settlements.
As everyone has said, spending a tiny fraction of the price of your phone on software that you will use permanently, and gain great pleasure from, is certainly worth even a little of your money. I suggest you try the trial, and if you like it, you know what to do. Wisbar is seminal software, and you will benefit from it. Whether you appreciate the memory drain etc is your choice. But there is also a lite version.
As far as I can tell, the board doesn't have a publicised policy on distributing warez. But the board members have made it clear: we don't appreciate people too cheap to pay for software that they can easily afford to buy, or too lazy to go and find their own cracks.
FYI - my personal policy is, I'm happy to discuss making cracks, since that's a developer's art, but distributing warez and cracks is for other boards. Torrent is your friend. Or a credit card.
V

Mikebj said:
Jeasbe,
I am sorry mate but it is people like you that makes it so hard for developers to continue all their hard work, you should be banned forever from this forum.
Sorry to everyone else I will climb down my soapbox now.
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Thats NOT FAIR Mate. All I said was If there is any software in the FREEWARE CATEGORY.
I never mentioned a WORD CRACK or illegal as many ppl. have done on the Forum.
Perhaps U should have read My words clearly.
I had said "I was wondering if ...........any thing that keeps on working forever"
ANYTHING means ANY THING LIKE WISBAR which is a shareware.
Its easy for us to act Arrogant and hurt one another on the forum buddy.
If U feel happy that way, Let it be.
By the way, This message was Posted By a Microsoft Certified Professional who values The Hours spent in developing anything.
Be it a Small Wisbar or a WINDOWS VISTA.
How many of us who are members here are Not having e-mule or bittorrent and are not interested in downloading the Latest OS ??
We all have our Priorities Mate and Mine was simply a shareware like Wisbar which would keep on working forever.
Thanx and Sorry If I said anything Personal
jeasbe'

Hm, I agree with all of this in a way...
But theres other ways to make money from software.
Sites that gain from advertising and offering free software with an optional donation if the program if good.

vijay555 said:
jeasbe: as you may have noticed, the name of this site is xda developers. Although most of us develop stuff that is free anyway, all developing takes time and effort and potential divorce settlements.
As everyone has said, spending a tiny fraction of the price of your phone on software that you will use permanently, and gain great pleasure from, is certainly worth even a little of your money. I suggest you try the trial, and if you like it, you know what to do. Wisbar is seminal software, and you will benefit from it. Whether you appreciate the memory drain etc is your choice. But there is also a lite version.
As far as I can tell, the board doesn't have a publicised policy on distributing warez. But the board members have made it clear: we don't appreciate people too cheap to pay for software that they can easily afford to buy, or too lazy to go and find their own cracks.
FYI - my personal policy is, I'm happy to discuss making cracks, since that's a developer's art, but distributing warez and cracks is for other boards. Torrent is your friend. Or a credit card.
V
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WELL QUOTED VIJAY,
I LIKED THE WAY u put the things.
I appreciate your suggestions and Even though some members Posts were hurting to My Ego, Your understanding Message was a relief that theer still are people in this world who dont hide from the harsh realities of the world.
In fact as I was still posting the message someone from some other corner of this lonely planet had already sent me the link for the crack and i even got a file from another friend....
As Put By VIJAY "I'm happy to discuss making cracks, since that's a developer's art, "

jeasbe said:
Mikebj said:
Jeasbe,
I am sorry mate but it is people like you that makes it so hard for developers to continue all their hard work, you should be banned forever from this forum.
Sorry to everyone else I will climb down my soapbox now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats NOT FAIR Mate. All I said was If there is any software in the FREEWARE CATEGORY.
I never mentioned a WORD CRACK or illegal as many ppl. have done on the Forum.
Perhaps U should have read My words clearly.
I had said "I was wondering if ...........any thing that keeps on working forever"
ANYTHING means ANY THING LIKE WISBAR which is a shareware.
Its easy for us to act Arrogant and hurt one another on the forum buddy.
If U feel happy that way, Let it be.
By the way, This message was Posted By a Microsoft Certified Professional who values The Hours spent in developing anything.
Be it a Small Wisbar or a WINDOWS VISTA.
How many of us who are members here are Not having e-mule or bittorrent and are not interested in downloading the Latest OS ??
We all have our Priorities Mate and Mine was simply a shareware like Wisbar which would keep on working forever.
Thanx and Sorry If I said anything Personal
jeasbe'
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Click to collapse
Your original "subject" said something about "warez", didn't it? And as for Microsoft Certified Professional: I've got that, too. Actually, I've got a few more of those certs. The way I see it, MCP is far too easy to get. Any monkey can be trained to pass some of the easier exams using a braindump.
You'll have to learn that quality comes at a cost. And I'm sorry to say this, but so far I haven't been very impressed by the quality of some Indian "System Engineers" who have come over here and tried to take business away from me. Yes, they might be cheaper - in the beginning. But in the long run, quality and experience do make a difference, and customers tend to come back.
On the other hand, I also know some guys from India who are really very good. I'm wondering in what category to put an "MCP" from India who, after not being able to find a crack on BitTorrent, eMule or whatever has the gall to ask for one in this forum.
'nuff said.

dma97701 said:
It always amuses me that people can drop $300 on a new device, but somehow can't seem to afford a $10 software application.
The really sad thing is they just don't understand what an incredible bargain they're getting in a software title like WisBar.
:roll:
Just gotta wonder...
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IT Amuses Me even More that Some people Just joined this forum TODAY and the first thing they did was scorn at others interest for some shareare.
Anyway, to each his own

I think someone is stealing your programs!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...Track=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:middle:us
I came across this looking for an 8525, it seems that he may be using the FREE programs available on here. I would say whoever created them go after this guy because it's obviously not fair he is using what you created to profit without you getting anything for it. I'm not 100% sure if he is use the programs from here, but I mean how many Sim/CID unlock program are really out there for the 8525?

I just reported the item to ebay, this is JJ's stuff and other members hard work.

Lurch3559 said:
I just reported the item to ebay, this is JJ's stuff and other members hard work.
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maybe a copy of SPL-****er will be worming its way to him... nothing to do with me of course ^_^

You're welcome guys .

Yeah thats a bunch of bull****. i was looking on ebay the other day for a broken wizard and i saw someone selling a program that would load farias wm6 rom onto their phone. I reported that **** right away. There are so many people on here that are so talented and make so much awesome programs and not charge us a dime for it, but then you got dicks like that guy who decides to profit off of other peoples hard work. Death to that ****er.

Really classy how he was going to put commercial video game ROMs onto the phone/memory card too.
Not only was this guy trying to rip off the individuals here at XDA-dev, but also large corporations as well...
S-M-R-T

chenga said:
Really classy how he was going to put commercial video game ROMs onto the phone/memory card too.
Not only was this guy trying to rip off the individuals here at XDA-dev, but also large corporations as well...
S-M-R-T
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I asked him about the programs and whether he developed them or not, here is the response I got:
"no not personally, but do talk to some of the developers and i donate some of my profit to them. any other questions feel free to ask
thanx
nate"
"i do cook my own roms if thats what you are asking, and just recieved an email asking me to remove this service and aparently reported to ebay, so i will not be able to offer this service at this time
sry
nate"
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Good Catch myztikal47.
I guess we can all help the developers here by keeping an eye out for this kind of crap.
I think it wouldn't be a bad Idea to have a sticky on this topic, something with an eye catching title, so more are aware of this issue, so as to be looking out for stinking thieves at places like ebay or craigslist.

I think it was only a question of time. There is no way how to block this. He can use new account, new name or whatever. we have similar problem on our forum, it is strictly technical forum about repairing TV, radio, video, SAT, PC... and we also have big storage with service manuals, service tips and few guys from us steal this infos from us and trying to profit on these! those information have price of gold, but is no help to stop this. So we decide for higher security, for restriction who can download files, and vice-versa etc. but here is not so easy I think, this will kill this forum.

wow he even had a picture of JJ rom on the page thats the lowest of low stealing and turning anround and making a profit off of it... His address is at the bottom of the page if anyone wants to send him a thank you card!

sinmae said:
I think it was only a question of time. There is no way how to block this. He can use new account, new name or whatever. we have similar problem on our forum, it is strictly technical forum about repairing TV, radio, video, SAT, PC... and we also have big storage with service manuals, service tips and few guys from us steal this infos from us and trying to profit on these! those information have price of gold, but is no help to stop this. So we decide for higher security, for restriction who can download files, and vice-versa etc. but here is not so easy I think, this will kill this forum.
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I don't think I take such a gloomy view. I agree it is impossible to stop someone selling a service and it is not in the spirit of this forum to sell either advice or cooked ROMs etc. But to play "devil's advocate" for a minute, what is it we object to? Is it that these folk are making money? Is it the lack of acknowledgement to the people who have put in all the development work? Is it the danger that selling this type of thing brings unwanted attention from M$ and telecom service providers?
I personally don't object to someone selling their time to help someone who lacks knowledge though they should tell the customer that they could learn for free from this site. If someone offered me cash to help them flash a ROM I don't think I'd feel guilty if I accepted money to do it. (Though I never have!).
I feel the main reason to block this kind of activity is that we already have unwanted attention from the likes of M$ without being associated with the sale of a service that relys on what M$ consider to be illegally altered M$ material. The very act of selling the service will bring a much harder approach from M$ IMO. No longer would we we seen as a bunch of keen dedicated geeky amateurs, but people out to profit illegally from M$ original work.
I notice on a brighter note that the two cases of this I am aware of are no longer available through ebay. In one case the individual has withdrawn the service and the other was removed by ebay.
EDIT: One of them is BACK
As a warning to others who might follow - selling a service or ROMs in this very public way is almost certainly illegal, particularly if bundled with a whole lot of other commercial games etc. If you want to take on the M$ legal team then this is a good way to go about it - remember it's not just the developers here that are not giving permission it is M$ original work that is being made available in a "corrupted" form.
Mike

This guy is back! But in a different flavor. I just found this today on eBay:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/CINGULAR-8525-HT...ryZ64355QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
He is WAAAAYYY overcharging on this phone. His justification? 1) the free upgrades found on this site, and 2) a CD of cracked illegal software.
And I fell sorry for this buyers who fell for his iPhone upgrade scam:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/HTC-CINGULAR-812...ryZ64355QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.ca/HTC-CINGULAR-812...ryZ64355QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I can't believe people fell for that!

this isnt that much different from offering a service to fix phones that users have broken. IE i upgraded to windows mobile 6 and now it doesnt turn on.
yes hes selling other peoples work but really the people that pay him arnt paying him for the software they are paying him for the knowledge he has gained from reading
i would offer a repair service for noobs but theres allready people doing it.
its actually no different to taking a black rom and not donating then complaining about it

tallshorty said:
And I fell sorry for this buyers who fell for his iPhone upgrade scam:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/HTC-CINGULAR-812...ryZ64355QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.ca/HTC-CINGULAR-812...ryZ64355QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I can't believe people fell for that!
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What is to say those buyers are not M$ trying to get the individuals information and then suing him later? Just a thought...

IMO it's fine for him to sell phone with the software pre-loaded on them already, thats like anyone on here selling their phone with all the hacks already done....but to actually have a service to install the software on the phone and profit from that, and not pay the people who created the software...well thats illegal, someone should just report him to Microsoft, they'll have a field day with him lol.

myztikal47 said:
IMO it's fine for him to sell phone with the software pre-loaded on them already, thats like anyone on here selling their phone with all the hacks already done....but to actually have a service to install the software on the phone and profit from that, and not pay the people who created the software...well thats illegal, someone should just report him to Microsoft, they'll have a field day with him lol.
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I agree with you on that but look at how much higher he is selling the phone because of the free softwares. It's the same as offering the service, basically.

he must need some money to be doing this...this guy must be a crack addict...or meth...yeah probably meth addict, anyways
I'm saddened to see stuff like this go on...coupled with these annoying noobs flooding the forums, m$ being ever so watchful, and the eventuality of newer devices...the great people of XDA might just get turned off from all of this...i know some are already extremely annoyed
...only time will tell

I have a close personal friend that works for Microsoft in their Windows Mobile team and I am going to forward this thread as well as the links to the ebay auctions over to him.

mikechannon said:
I don't think I take such a gloomy view. I agree it is impossible to stop someone selling a service and it is not in the spirit of this forum to sell either advice or cooked ROMs etc. But to play "devil's advocate" for a minute, what is it we object to? Is it that these folk are making money? Is it the lack of acknowledgement to the people who have put in all the development work? Is it the danger that selling this type of thing brings unwanted attention from M$ and telecom service providers?
I personally don't object to someone selling their time to help someone who lacks knowledge though they should tell the customer that they could learn for free from this site. If someone offered me cash to help them flash a ROM I don't think I'd feel guilty if I accepted money to do it. (Though I never have!).
I feel the main reason to block this kind of activity is that we already have unwanted attention from the likes of M$ without being associated with the sale of a service that relys on what M$ consider to be illegally altered M$ material. The very act of selling the service will bring a much harder approach from M$ IMO. No longer would we we seen as a bunch of keen dedicated geeky amateurs, but people out to profit illegally from M$ original work.
I notice on a brighter note that the two cases of this I am aware of are no longer available through ebay. In one case the individual has withdrawn the service and the other was removed by ebay.
EDIT: One of them is BACK
As a warning to others who might follow - selling a service or ROMs in this very public way is almost certainly illegal, particularly if bundled with a whole lot of other commercial games etc. If you want to take on the M$ legal team then this is a good way to go about it - remember it's not just the developers here that are not giving permission it is M$ original work that is being made available in a "corrupted" form.
Mike
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I will point out a couple of things wrong with this Mike... 1. He is using JJ's roms and i highly doubt JJ is getting any kind of kickback. 2. His ebay username nateshuntsvegas is the same as on here. That alone could very well attract some negative attention as if M$ havent given us a hard time the way it is.
the rest of it i agree with

shogunmark said:
I will point out a couple of things wrong with this Mike... 1. He is using JJ's roms and i highly doubt JJ is getting any kind of kickback. 2. His ebay username nateshuntsvegas is the same as on here. That alone could very well attract some negative attention as if M$ havent given us a hard time the way it is.
the rest of it i agree with
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I don't disagree with your comment, but as JJ's work is freely available for folk to download it's impossible to stop anyone selling services to install it. But yes the negative attention of M$ (linked as it is to here) is certainly not what we want. If we are seen by M$ to be set against any moves to sell this kind of material or a service to install it I'm sure this will improve their view of us.
Mike

What is XDA policy here re Scammers who sell XDA hackers' software?

This community is so damn innovative and cooperative, it amazes me what software/ROMS get cooked here which really add a lot of productivity value to me, transforming a tedious, hard-to-read Windows Mobile User Interface into a tool that really works on the go. And I've been equally impressed by the collaborative spirit of this community in problem solving and feature tweeks.
Thus I am curious if there is an organized policy here that helps us end-users deter the scammers who grab software from XDA-developers, bundle it, and sell it across the web. I'm speaking of a prominent spot on the home page and within the information design of these forums that, just like the "Missing Kids" alerts on milk cartons, highlights prominently the latest scammers stealing work here.
I understand this forum is for actual development, but truth is this issue gets lost in "General" forums. Because it's the people who hack here who are the people being hurt directly.
Though I signed onto XDA over a year ago, and have read volumes re my T-mobile MDA and software upgrades here, I ended up being nonetheless too nervous to follow the very clear instructions posted last year with all if the various WM 6 roms developed here. And I never did upgrade.
But I have a WING now, and I wanted an iphone theme and user interface. Again I read all the sticky threads for the Herald, as well as the links from the wiki for that specific phone. After several days of trying to figure out "should I be first flashing my T-mobile ROM to a more efficient one, before then seeking to install one of the iphone themes and apps like A_C's S2U2 etc. I then did a dumb consumer thing: when searching this site using Google, I followed the links to one or two of the GOOGLE AD-WORDS hawking an iPhone theme on your PocketPC.
Long story short, I got scammed of $10 for something that was outdated and didn't even install properly on my WING... But I'd been "comforted" by the presentation on their website, http://iphonethemeforpocketpc.com , thinking I would get my head cleared of the confusion that mounts when I'd dig down deep into the many discussions of so many ROMs & themes & apps here. I got burned, that was bad enough. But it then pissed me off doubly that superior software would be found here at XDA -- and more than likely some of that guy's component cab files were simply stolen from developers right here.
I ended up back here and successfully installed the ifonz theme, A_C's S2U2 (the scam site had an old slide2unlock version... bit as everyone here knows, A_C's app is superb. I also installed Contact Manager (amazing!), PCM keyboard (what an improvement over windows), and MortPlayer (fantastic). I intend to donate to each program author.
But the purpose of this post is this: I filed a dispute with PayPal (requires login) over this scammer's non-working product and absolute refusal to even reply to my early "friendly" emails seeking install help. Went through PayPal's Resolution Center "escalation process" -- after no reply from the seller to PayPal -- and my dispute became a CLAIM for Paypal to determine outcome. PayPal's reply, denying the claim, states that they reviewed all communications and investigated the issue fully (totally not true).
I could have stopped there -- afterall i'd long ago expended way more than $10 worth of my time -- but it was for the principle of it. So I called PayPal, went through all the menu-options, screenings, and hold queues, and finally spoke to an actual Resolution Agent -- who was very nice, & actually very helpful.
However: I learned then, from her, what many of you may already know -- but I wonder DOES everyone know?, because I sure didn't... She told me that anything digital or downloadable is not even covered with any Buyer Protection as disclosed in PayPal's terms of service. So the claim got closed automatically because it didn't qualify for any dispute resolution. I was really surprised by this, that no downloadable software is subject to dispute/resolution policies -- and that's why I am writing this thread, as a service (I *hope*) to all you developers.
I first did a search here on the boards for "scams", because I wanted to find a place on this site to DISPLAY CLEARLY---> Here is a scamsite --> make sure your stuff is not being sold there. That's when I saw this sampling of threads, below, and had to wonder, is there a policy here that is clear and easy to find (NO! not that I can see!) that helps developers here by giving us end-users a place to post the hit-list of scammers on ebay, on iphonetheme websites, etc. ?
If so, I missed it in the information design here. If not, I recommend it. I know it burns you guys who are being ripped off -- but it also ticks off less-sophisticated community members like me (end-users of your hard work) to see your works exploited -- given especially their innovation and performance tweeks.
Here are just a few of the threads I found from this year, from March 08, where people reported being ripped off by people selling their works. In my view, I don't think that's enough or sufficient to just have someone start a thread saying "beware of X, Y or Z". And that's why I posted this. Thanks to all of you who make the lives of end-users more productive with your great work.
q/s
Name And Shame Ebayer Stealing Xdev Material
Bastards selling my Unlocker
Thief On The Loose At Hofo and possibly xda!

wow.. no reply. well i know i'm verbose, but i thought this would at least get a reply that explained yes/no if the site has designated a specific area to broadcast who are the current scammers operating out on he internets...
Should I be posting this into a different forum? if so, which one please/ thanks

As far as I know, there is no area warning about potential scams. There have been issues with people selling cooked roms on ebay that i'm aware of, but that normally comes up in model-specific forums.
it definitely could be helpful to have such an area on the forum, but at the same time, there have been many stickies informing people NOT to go out and sell other peoples work, and advising people against using warez and cracked programs.
Most people that have come to this forum realize there is no reason to pay for most software, as there's probably an excellent free or open source alternative. if there's not yet, someone's working on one. this forum is a mix of entusiasts, programmers, hackers, and people who just love to tweak their devices. once you come here and see the vast amounts of information, there's really no need to go anywhere else. i check the xda forums rather regularly, and pocketpcfreeware every now and again.
i don't think a scams section on the forum would help keep from people getting scammed elsewhere... they usually find this site after they've already been scammed. many of us have already taken it into our own hands, by trying to point as many people as we can here, so they can learn the beauty of free, well maintained software and roms made by people who just want to help others enjoy their devices more and more.
scammers are more like a disease... and prevention is the best medicine.

alongenemylines said:
As far as I know, there is no area warning about potential scams. There have been issues with people selling cooked roms on ebay that i'm aware of, but that normally comes up in model-specific forums.
it definitely could be helpful to have such an area on the forum, but at the same time, there have been many stickies informing people NOT to go out and sell other peoples work, and advising people against using warez and cracked programs.
Most people that have come to this forum realize there is no reason to pay for most software, as there's probably an excellent free or open source alternative. if there's not yet, someone's working on one. this forum is a mix of entusiasts, programmers, hackers, and people who just love to tweak their devices. once you come here and see the vast amounts of information, there's really no need to go anywhere else. i check the xda forums rather regularly, and pocketpcfreeware every now and again.
i don't think a scams section on the forum would help keep from people getting scammed elsewhere... they usually find this site after they've already been scammed. many of us have already taken it into our own hands, by trying to point as many people as we can here, so they can learn the beauty of free, well maintained software and roms made by people who just want to help others enjoy their devices more and more.
scammers are more like a disease... and prevention is the best medicine.
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Click to collapse
There have been instances where its come to the attention of the community here and the developers of ROMS and programs that their work is being packaged and sold on ebay and the like. Obviously this behavior is viewed very negatively. While there is no policy or "organized" efforts to monitor and react, when someone does point out an instance, the community members rally around and do what they can to call the guy out, and warn potential scammees of it. Ebay is often notified directly, and also comments on the sellers postings on ebay are made to warn.
And yes, your post is verbose

STOP THE STEALING - HD2 Scammers - Lets help the hard working developers..

I really hope the mods dont close cause this needs to be out there....
I am starting this thread to try to help protect the developers work from scammers....
I ask that if you see someone trying to sell the work of the devs. via ebay craigslist or any other site that you report it in this thread to help stop them in there track.... Hopefully if they see there ads listed here when they come to steal the work they will stop trying to sell it....
This money belong to all the people that has made this all possible....
This is the latest ad I have found which is just wrong.....
Android on your HD2 - $75 (arlington)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 2010-07-27, 11:33AM CDT
Reply to: [email protected] [Errors when replying to ads?]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i can make ur hd2 phone dual boot to have winmo and android on your phone both in working order i do have everything on a laptop and can meet to show you my working device and mod your device to match it...plz text (469)-684-8218 or reply to this email for questions !! price depends on your location and how far i have to drive
•Location: arlington
•it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
PostingID: 1865976865

damn that is just wrong....and they even left their phone number...

http://cgi.ebay.com/HTC-HD2-Android...d=ViewItem&pt=Cell_Phones&hash=item3caf4d42c1
HTC HD2 Android 2.1 Installation Instructions
I am selling installation instructions for how to put Android 2.1on your HD2. I will give you step by step instructions on how to put a functioning Android ROM on your HTC HD2.
Android is what your HD2 has been waiting for. The current ROM's available are very stable and everything works-bluetooth, calling, email, text, data, Android Market--you just need to know how to do it!!
You are purchasing many hours of research condensed and compiled into easy to read instructions on three pieces of paper. i own the copyright to the instructions, and they are solely my research. I tell you where to go to get the files and then what to do with them to get it running on your HD2. Not breaking your phone and doing it right the first time is what this is about. I have created step by step instructions for you to read and follow, the rest is up to you.You should be up and running within an hour of receiving your instructions.
Please call text or email me with any questions you may have!!!
586-665-6669
I can also update you to the latest version of 2.2 Froyo upon request.
Other sellers may promise you Android on your HD2 which is only partially usable and experimental, but I will tell you how to install a fully functional, stable Android build.
If you are a seller and want to increase your HD2 selling price, let me help you sell for over $100 more per item with this advanced ROM.

We shall flood him with texts asking him to drive anywhere to install android. He ll loose his time and money
Sent from my Androihd2

that is just horrible! if anyone asked me, id do it for free and DEFINITELY tell them i didnt come up with this and give credit to those who did.
What these devs did is amazing and they seriously deserve the credit!
LAAAAAMEEEE!

I have had seen that on craislist add to, not to long ago but I have post tell all the craigslist shoper said that a guy who posted claiming that he could get android to run on HD2 for 40 dollar is a scammer, Cause I know it should be free and I have link the website to here xda-developer.
I don't think it right making money from other people work!!!

i suppose its fair to ask for money to drive to someone and give them a personal tuition on installing android and how to use it on your hd2.
i like to find information and figure things out by myself to do stuff.
some people arent very good at rooting out what they need to do but they are still capable of understanding something if someone sits down and explains it to them.
maybe it will bring some new people into the xda world. loads of people have an hd2 as an upgrade and dont know anything about it.

I feel that if credit is given freely where it is due, the *service* should be allowed.
Most people won't go put replacement parts on their car, and mechanics don't (generally) create their own parts from molten metal. That said, most mechanics also won't say that they DID create the parts from molten metal.
I haven't offered my services as a "phone mechanic" but if I did, AND posted links to the original works, AND made it clear that I was simply selling a service, would I be villified by the development community?

xfinrodx said:
I feel that if credit is given freely where it is due, the *service* should be allowed.
Most people won't go put replacement parts on their car, and mechanics don't (generally) create their own parts from molten metal. That said, most mechanics also won't say that they DID create the parts from molten metal.
I haven't offered my services as a "phone mechanic" but if I did, AND posted links to the original works, AND made it clear that I was simply selling a service, would I be villified by the development community?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's because people with no knowledge about cars should not tamper with their cars or they may cause some serious damage. Putting Android on the HD2 has no ill effects at all and does not warrant a $75 service charge or any at all. Something like this is as stupid as those idiots out there you see selling iPhone jailbreaks and unlocks when those are ridiculously easy as well and again cause no damage to the phone (except warranty voiding but that's to be expected).

hmm?
xfinrodx said:
I feel that if credit is given freely where it is due, the *service* should be allowed.
Most people won't go put replacement parts on their car, and mechanics don't (generally) create their own parts from molten metal. That said, most mechanics also won't say that they DID create the parts from molten metal.
I haven't offered my services as a "phone mechanic" but if I did, AND posted links to the original works, AND made it clear that I was simply selling a service, would I be villified by the development community?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please explain this to me - what kind of "service" would you offer? Downloading a rom build by someone else and extracting the file to a sd-card? And making false promises by telling your "customer" that android would be "fully functional" (there's no "fully functional" build out there!)? Wow very very impressive!!
And despite the fact that "your service" is based on the hard work of someone other than you (who really deserves the money), I am sure that this kind of "phone mechanic" wouldn't spend one single Dollar/Euro on a donation to the developers who made this possible.
This makes me sad. This makes me sick. This makes me very very angry!
My advice to the developers: Cook in a message displayed when Android is started making it clear that their piece of software is experimental, free and can freely be downloaded at xda-developers.com.
I fully second thread starter's posting - DON'T STEAL FROM THE COMMUNITY! DON'T STEAL FROM THE DEVELOPERS! And last but not least: DONATE DAMMIT!

ironheart said:
Please explain this to me - what kind of "service" would you offer? Downloading a rom build by someone else and extracting the file to a sd-card?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, that's a service. There are many people out there who need a helping hand even for the easiest things. (Ganz besonders die Amis ;-) )

problem solved
nevermind...

Damn, already?? You what guys you can't stop this, you'll always have these punks tryin to make money off someones elses back..
My suggestion: (if possible)
I'm just an simple 1st line IT-engineer, so i wont exactly know how to do this but there must be a way to find out under which ip-adress the person is posting from on these sites.. The chance he's a member here is probably very high..
What if we get this ip, and ask the mods to permantly ban this person... ??
Anyone know if this is possible???
I think that will send a message to some people.. But I think this is unstoppable. Damn the Pirates! Shoot them all!

Selling the instructions and packages to someone is wrong but charging someone to set it up on the phone for them because the owner isn't capable of it themselves is fine IMO.
It's no different to somewhere giving away free car batteries and charging $10 if you wanted them to install it. You aren't paying for the batteries (in this case the software), your paying for someone's time to set it up.
Regardless of how easy it is or how freely available the instructions are, if someone wants someone else to do it, it's fair enough that person charge for their time to set it up for them. The value of that time is up to the person paying it.

MMAwarrior said:
What if we get this ip, and ask the mods to permantly ban this person... ??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One of this guys is a member but as long as there are no personal and static IP's for everyone on the planet, ip bans are not working. You can block his region or his ISP but this will block not only him...

Hmmmm, ok so Ip bans are out! only one thing left to do!
Call / mail them meet them, beat em up!
Sounds like a plan to me! I could use the workout!

ironheart said:
Please explain this to me - what kind of "service" would you offer? Downloading a rom build by someone else and extracting the file to a sd-card? And making false promises by telling your "customer" that android would be "fully functional" (there's no "fully functional" build out there!)? Wow very very impressive!!
And despite the fact that "your service" is based on the hard work of someone other than you (who really deserves the money), I am sure that this kind of "phone mechanic" wouldn't spend one single Dollar/Euro on a donation to the developers who made this possible.
This makes me sad. This makes me sick. This makes me very very angry!
My advice to the developers: Cook in a message displayed when Android is started making it clear that their piece of software is experimental, free and can freely be downloaded at xda-developers.com.
I fully second thread starter's posting - DON'T STEAL FROM THE COMMUNITY! DON'T STEAL FROM THE DEVELOPERS! And last but not least: DONATE DAMMIT!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I could see this coming from a mile away. All this thread is going to cause heated debates and eventually name calling. There are always going to be people on both sides of the issue. XDA is place place to develop and share. Its not a place to combat warez or what ever you want to call "selling other people's work". Obviously XDA is against it... if you read the rules.
I totally agree with you on not selling other peoples work and not charging for "your time" but this thread is unnecessary. Its contrary to the goal of this section. Not to mention the already mentioned threats of spamming these sellers. Depending on where you are at this could be considered illegal.

mmafighter077 said:
I could see this coming from a mile away. All this thread is going to cause heated debates and eventually name calling. There are always going to be people on both sides of the issue. XDA is place place to develop and share. Its not a place to combat warez or what ever you want to call "selling other people's work". Obviously XDA is against it... if you read the rules.
I totally agree with you on not selling other peoples work and not charging for "your time" but this thread is unnecessary. Its contrary to the goal of this section. Not to mention the already mentioned threats of spamming these sellers. Depending in where you are at this could be considered illegal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you got a point, it's just that we are real appriciative towards the devs, and can't stand these guys making money off em..

MMAwarrior said:
you got a point, it's just that we are real appriciative towards the devs, and can't stand these guys making money off em..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I get you you... but I just feel if I want flame wars I could go to sherdog. haha.

ironheart said:
Please explain this to me - what kind of "service" would you offer? Downloading a rom build by someone else and extracting the file to a sd-card? And making false promises by telling your "customer" that android would be "fully functional" (there's no "fully functional" build out there!)? Wow very very impressive!!
And despite the fact that "your service" is based on the hard work of someone other than you (who really deserves the money), I am sure that this kind of "phone mechanic" wouldn't spend one single Dollar/Euro on a donation to the developers who made this possible.
This makes me sad. This makes me sick. This makes me very very angry!
My advice to the developers: Cook in a message displayed when Android is started making it clear that their piece of software is experimental, free and can freely be downloaded at xda-developers.com.
I fully second thread starter's posting - DON'T STEAL FROM THE COMMUNITY! DON'T STEAL FROM THE DEVELOPERS! And last but not least: DONATE DAMMIT!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you completely misunderstood what I was saying! Let me go through and disagree with your impression of me, one paragraph at a time:
"Please explain this to me - what kind of "service" would you offer? Downloading a rom build by someone else and extracting the file to a sd-card?"
-Answer- Absolutely. As well as educating the person and ensuring that any additional HSPL, radio, or WinMo rom was installed correctly and was appropriate for their hardware.
"And making false promises by telling your "customer" that android would be "fully functional" (there's no "fully functional" build out there!)? Wow very very impressive!!"
-Answer- Absolutely not, and if you would have taken the time to read my original post, that you quoted, you would have seen that I made provisions for informing people of the community and where they should go for more information on Android on the HD2.
"And despite the fact that "your service" is based on the hard work of someone other than you (who really deserves the money)"
-Answer- Back to the mechanic, I think this one has been cleared up with a battery analogy. Perfectly clear. If you need more explanation than that, I am willing to delve into more comparisons.
"I am sure that this kind of "phone mechanic" wouldn't spend one single Dollar/Euro on a donation to the developers who made this possible."
-Answer- I would be happy to donate to the devs if I were to profit from a service based on their work, out of appreciation AND out of capitalistic interest in potentially further motivating them to continue developing and improving.
"This makes me sad. This makes me sick. This makes me very very angry!"
-Answer- Think about it from a more objective basis and perhaps you can feel less queasy.
"My advice to the developers: Cook in a message displayed when Android is started making it clear that their piece of software is experimental, free and can freely be downloaded at xda-developers.com."
-Answer (even though I am not a dev)- That would be fine with me, possibly even beneficial, especially if the "experimental" part was emphasized to imply that there is some kind of risk or knowledge that should be had prior to going out and just diving into Android.
"I fully second thread starter's posting - DON'T STEAL FROM THE COMMUNITY! DON'T STEAL FROM THE DEVELOPERS! And last but not least: DONATE DAMMIT!"
-Answer- Again, I do not condone stealing intellectual property. However, I believe that distributing the intellectual property of others is not stealing. Ever written a paper? You quote your sources, but YOU get the grade. Your sources never (or extremely rarely) reap any benefit from your work of putting research and experience together to put out a clean, finished product. And donating is fine and good and should be done if you find the software useful.

Off-site Roms and XDA support threads

This has become a stickler point for me.
How exactly do these "roms" that post on xda to gain the large audience with links to thier own sites with thier own forums and downloads do it?
Why does XDA allow the threads to exist?
To me it's a confusing point, on one hand you've got the huge user base that XDA has and it's "helpful" but on the other hand these "roms" have chosen to move else where to have a clear cut definition of "who" their users are.
I for one would love to see xda delete these threads, if your rom isnt hosted here why should XDA pick up the tab on the traffic and moderation to "support" the people that don't want to follow basic rules.
It's one thing to post on here saying that it's out it's quite another to have a thread devoted to the rom for "support" when they've got their own site and thier own "donation" setup and don't offer direct links to the roms.
I'm thinking of Bonsai and Baked Snack when I say this, although other sites like ppcgeeks are guilty of it as well.
Here's the breakdown...
Baked snack was a rom a while back that Herver ran, he had people that loved his roms, but he wouldnt share his gpl code, so XDA to avoid issues banned him and removes his threads.
Bonsai started up thier own "business oriented and non-hobby"(randy's words) website and started offering up betas to people that donated, BANNING people that would share this beta software if they found out.(or so his users have said)
PPCGeeks.com basically is a forum that has very little of it's own content and tends to backlink to threads here on XDA. This should not be allowed. it's cheap and annoying to think that other forums all link back to xda but refuse to use and follow it's rules touting it as the devil for thier moderators sucking and other offhanded badness, while at the same time using it's resources for thier own gain.
If you want to follow the XDA rules on rom posting fine. Post here. If you want to have your own site to support the rom fine have the site, but if you get removed from the site for not following the rules, do NOT expect to keep using it to support your users.
The rules of posting should be simple.
If you post a rom in a thread there should NOT be an external sign up on said site to get the rom.
If you post a rom, there should NOT be a pay to play system in place to get "advanced" copies,(nor a "shopping cart" for the rom)
If you post a rom, there SHOULD be a direct link or mirror link to the rom.
If you post a rom, there should be open disclosure and read-only sources to what you've done.
In essence i for one WANT to see all support threads for non-hosted on XDA roms removed, they put a burden on XDA to moderate, the put a burden on XDA for bandwidth and hardware, and they cause undue traffic to those that don't want to play by the rules they signed up for.
Side note, i'd love to see hotlinking from other sites also disabled on XDA to stop those crap spring up offshoot websites thinking they're better and "more laid back" from not having to bother with their own content and users.
Analogy time:
Think of it like this... You've spent a lot of time and money to make a large car lot, you allow others of the community who've used your car lot to gather and sell their own cars on your lot free of charge. It all runs fine until along comes one person that feels they should be allowed to use the facilities of the lot for only themselves and break ruin the good bathroom, now they setup thier own bathroom close to thier table but only people that come to thier table and purchase a car may use this bathroom. After a little while you find that they have opened up their own car lot across the street. You ask them to take their cars elsewhere, and remove them from your lot. BUT they setup a table on your lot and take up valuable real-estate to "answer questions" about their car lot across the street AND about their cars. while using your facilities and security etc. Would you do that in normal circumstances? or would you remove their table as well and let them use their own car lot as a support and sales team for their own cars?
Anyways, thats my take on the whole off-site roms but XDA support.
Add thanks to this if you support this idea, OR post away and add something new to the conversation, *I* personally think that XDA should take a hand in removing these threads from here as they are a detriment to the community that exists and undermines the ideals attached to opensource projects.

I definitely agree with Art3mis on this one. Its ridiculous that they are still allowed to have support threads (and more that they even have support threads instead of just having them all on their own private forums as they either, didnt follow the rules of XDA, or left at their own accord).

Yeah it annoys me that bonsai still has support threads here.

you are right and i agree 100% with everything except this:
art3mis-nyc said:
Side note, i'd love to see hotlinking from other sites also disabled on XDA to stop those crap spring up offshoot websites thinking they're better and "more laid back" from not having to bother with their own content and users.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hotlinking from other sites is how all the roms are posted whether it be private domains or sites like multiupload. there is an 8meg limit on xda attachments...so big 100+ meg rom downloads have to be linked from somewhere else to save xda's bandwidth. i personally like hosting my own files and giving direct links in threads because i can look at awstats and know how many times a file has been hit.
on that same note i agree there should be a direct link...and i mean a real direct link....not a redirect to sign up or a redirect to an ad page or anything like that...the rest of your article i agree 100%

Then don't click on the thread?? Is it really that hard?

art3mis-nyc said:
This has become a stickler point for me......(other stuff)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Get off your high horse. You are no dev (not even cut and paste) and no mod.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk

XDA doesn't allow software that breaks the rules or off-site competition, but they allow discussion of said software. Kind of counter-intuitive, really.
Rodderik said:
hotlinking from other sites is how all the roms are posted whether it be private domains or sites like multiupload. there is an 8meg limit on xda attachments...so big 100+ meg rom downloads have to be linked from somewhere else to save xda's bandwidth.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think he means other websites hotlinking to XDA.

All the Bonsai support threads are gone, and have been for a long while. The only thing left is the user discussion thread in the General section. It's for news and users helping other users. Everyone knows where to go for dev support when it comes to Bonsai.
But there are a couple reasons why the thread exists. First off, it doesn't break any XDA rules. They would have to break their own rules or create new ones to get rid of it. The other reason is XDA does not want to remove it. Anything that is considered controversial gets hits. The more hits, the better for advertising revenue . Every time someone tries to start a Bonsai hate thread of *****es about why it exists, people come along and either argue or agree with the OP. XDA does not care one way or the other, they get paid the same.
As Randy stated here-
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=15035075&postcount=1026
He has made every attempt to work things out, but it has been a one way process.

Deleted. Counter productive.
Sent from me!

tl;dr
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

I think this whole thing is kind of silly. The analygy given by the OP isn't even close. In xda, no physical damage was done and nothing illegal was done. You might as well been comparing a frog to a cow .
I am a huge proponent of open source, but as a business owner, I know that time is very important and good developers should be paid.
In other open source industries (I will use Drupal.org as my example), commercial and opensource get along just fine. There are many commercial companies (acquia.com) that's entire business is providing service and support for the open source products they use and promote. The commercial companies have made the open source community way stronger in these last few years. Another example would be Linux, Canonical the business backing Ubuntu.
Those industries have standards too and don't allow any non-GPL (back to the Drupal example) code to be committed in there repository. They still allow commercial companies with closed source to participate.
The "groups" (bonsai, etc...) that are talked about here are still contributing to the the community. They may not be doing it according to xda's rules, but that doesn't mean they aren't contributing.
I understand xda's motives for disallowing closed source stuff in the forums. But banning everyones ability to talk about sites outside of the forum is ridiculous. Thats like saying "we encourage and love open source" but "we hate open (source) communication".
Lastly, why you throwing PPCGeeks under the bus. Before my epic I owned 3 winmo phones. I could find way more CDMA winmo roms on PPCgeeks than I ever found on xda. Fixes were rolled out fast and the winmo community on ppcgeeks was very strong.

Rodderik said:
you are right and i agree 100% with everything except this:
hotlinking from other sites is how all the roms are posted whether it be private domains or sites like multiupload. there is an 8meg limit on xda attachments...so big 100+ meg rom downloads have to be linked from somewhere else to save xda's bandwidth. i personally like hosting my own files and giving direct links in threads because i can look at awstats and know how many times a file has been hit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is more in relation to say i started a "forum" for Superawesomeroms.com and then i have nothing to post so all i do is post links to XDA threads all the while bemoaning and berating XDA for thier crap moderation and blah blah blah blah

Well, I for one post my content here, ppcgeeks, and ACS. Obviously most of the traffic I get is here.
What I can say is that other sites linking to xda is how I found this site. I was on ppcgeeks a few months before xda, and found xda through a link off their site. I also link back to xda quite often when I'm trying to help other on another site. What that shows me is that other sites linking back to xda drives traffic here.
Traffic=revenue. Guess I don't see the problem with that.

art3mis-nyc said:
This has become a stickler point for me.
How exactly do these "roms" that post on xda to gain the large audience with links to thier own sites with thier own forums and downloads do it?
Why does XDA allow the threads to exist?
To me it's a confusing point, on one hand you've got the huge user base that XDA has and it's "helpful" but on the other hand these "roms" have chosen to move else where to have a clear cut definition of "who" their users are.
I for one would love to see xda delete these threads, if your rom isnt hosted here why should XDA pick up the tab on the traffic and moderation to "support" the people that don't want to follow basic rules.
It's one thing to post on here saying that it's out it's quite another to have a thread devoted to the rom for "support" when they've got their own site and thier own "donation" setup and don't offer direct links to the roms.
I'm thinking of Bonsai and Baked Snack when I say this, although other sites like ppcgeeks are guilty of it as well.
Here's the breakdown...
Baked snack was a rom a while back that Herver ran, he had people that loved his roms, but he wouldnt share his gpl code, so XDA to avoid issues banned him and removes his threads.
Bonsai started up thier own "business oriented and non-hobby"(randy's words) website and started offering up betas to people that donated, BANNING people that would share this beta software if they found out.(or so his users have said)
PPCGeeks.com basically is a forum that has very little of it's own content and tends to backlink to threads here on XDA. This should not be allowed. it's cheap and annoying to think that other forums all link back to xda but refuse to use and follow it's rules touting it as the devil for thier moderators sucking and other offhanded badness, while at the same time using it's resources for thier own gain.
If you want to follow the XDA rules on rom posting fine. Post here. If you want to have your own site to support the rom fine have the site, but if you get removed from the site for not following the rules, do NOT expect to keep using it to support your users.
The rules of posting should be simple.
If you post a rom in a thread there should NOT be an external sign up on said site to get the rom.
If you post a rom, there should NOT be a pay to play system in place to get "advanced" copies,(nor a "shopping cart" for the rom)
If you post a rom, there SHOULD be a direct link or mirror link to the rom.
If you post a rom, there should be open disclosure and read-only sources to what you've done.
In essence i for one WANT to see all support threads for non-hosted on XDA roms removed, they put a burden on XDA to moderate, the put a burden on XDA for bandwidth and hardware, and they cause undue traffic to those that don't want to play by the rules they signed up for.
Side note, i'd love to see hotlinking from other sites also disabled on XDA to stop those crap spring up offshoot websites thinking they're better and "more laid back" from not having to bother with their own content and users.
Analogy time:
Think of it like this... You've spent a lot of time and money to make a large car lot, you allow others of the community who've used your car lot to gather and sell their own cars on your lot free of charge. It all runs fine until along comes one person that feels they should be allowed to use the facilities of the lot for only themselves and break ruin the good bathroom, now they setup thier own bathroom close to thier table but only people that come to thier table and purchase a car may use this bathroom. After a little while you find that they have opened up their own car lot across the street. You ask them to take their cars elsewhere, and remove them from your lot. BUT they setup a table on your lot and take up valuable real-estate to "answer questions" about their car lot across the street AND about their cars. while using your facilities and security etc. Would you do that in normal circumstances? or would you remove their table as well and let them use their own car lot as a support and sales team for their own cars?
Anyways, thats my take on the whole off-site roms but XDA support.
Add thanks to this if you support this idea, OR post away and add something new to the conversation, *I* personally think that XDA should take a hand in removing these threads from here as they are a detriment to the community that exists and undermines the ideals attached to opensource projects.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As long as your calling everyone else out. Mentioning a competitive site, I do believe, is against the rules.
Guys, these are just phones and at this point why even bring this up? I'm not suggesting that the rules be ignored but everyone constantly getting bent out of shape over this stuff isn't productive or even healthy for that matter.
PLEASE, just let the Bonsai thing just die already. They made their choice and no matter how many people complain about it, is't going to change anything. All it does is start flame wars. If you have something to say to them I suggest you contact them directly and give them a chance to address the concerns directly.
Why can't we do something.......anything...but complain. Does anyone stop to think that Bonsai leaving for setting up their site the way they did has little to nothing to do with the direction the Epic forums are going in? It's bad attitudes and feelings of entitlement that are KILLING this forum, IMHO. Stop complaining and contribute to positive change. If we focus on the negative all the time that's all we are going to get.

If any threads should be deleted it is ones talking about other phones. There are forums for those. This is the Samsung Epic forum, that is the phone I have chosen for 2 years and only want to see threads about those. If an accessory or ROM is avaliable off XA for it, I want to know about it. I don't give a crap about the EVO 3d or Within or any otherstupid little phone that comes out. XDA has a general forum for that and most of these have their own forums. Don't clutter our threads with that garbage, or whiny kids saying "it's official our phone is a piece of crap"! This is the clutter that needs to be removed. Not a single thread for an offsite ROM.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

icevapor said:
I think this whole thing is kind of silly. The analygy given by the OP isn't even close. In xda, no physical damage was done and nothing illegal was done. You might as well been comparing a frog to a cow .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not really it's a valid argument, and while you dont see it, BW useage etc is a hit when it supports items that arent on the site itself.
icevapor said:
I am a huge proponent of open source, but as a business owner, I know that time is very important and good developers should be paid.
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Some very fine work perhaps the best work as far as the epic goes, is from people that do it for fun and hobby, and dont ask for donations and in some cases dont even have a link for it, yet others believe as you do apperantly that they should be able to take the others work, rename it and change it and "sell" it(ie the Bonsai clockworkmod that they simply renamed and recoloured) as noted i'm fine with charging for support, it's the software i dont like the charging to exist for.
icevapor said:
In other open source industries (I will use Drupal.org as my example), commercial and opensource get along just fine. There are many commercial companies (acquia.com) that's entire business is providing service and support for the open source products they use and promote. The commercial companies have made the open source community way stronger in these last few years. Another example would be Linux, Canonical the business backing Ubuntu.
Those industries have standards too and don't allow any non-GPL (back to the Drupal example) code to be committed in there repository. They still allow commercial companies with closed source to participate.
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The difference between that and this is that the Opensource lives along side, doesnt require a signup and in most cases is "on par" with the pay version, again you're paying for support, which im fine with, but the software is available to all or none, not to who pays.(minus some features of course but rarely advanced beta copies etc)
icevapor said:
The "groups" (bonsai, etc...) that are talked about here are still contributing to the the community. They may not be doing it according to xda's rules, but that doesn't mean they aren't contributing.
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I can't think of a single thing that has been contributed back, aside from the kernel fiasco for marcusants "psuedo rom"
icevapor said:
Lastly, why you throwing PPCGeeks under the bus. Before my epic I owned 3 winmo phones. I could find way more CDMA winmo roms on PPCgeeks than I ever found on xda. Fixes were rolled out fast and the winmo community on ppcgeeks was very strong.
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ppcgeeks was the first site that i noticed it on and while it's not directed specifically at them, they are guilty of the above mentioned content links.

i'm not scared of negativity
and you shouldn't be either
if discussing negativity means thats all you will end up with
then ask yourself who is the real source of negativity?
deciding your fate...premonitions?
let it roll
if you never go there...you will never get it out of your system
and i'm sure thats why anyone would participate in this thread to begin with
so do it, and dig deep
just try and be as respectful as possible in your aims
dont cloud this life with misconstrued karma
if you cannot understand someones apparent stance and it appears ignorant or childish,
then try and be the bigger person and post something constructive they can actually do
otherwise you are just bickering for the sake of it
before i get too far off topic
if xda's main goal is truly web traffic...then thats what the userbase is going to comprise of...otherwise you are just out of place and belong elsewhere.
if you are just part of traffic then dont claim to be a leader with every post you make
and vise versa...dont get lost in the traffic when you know damn well you have something to offer the community that is truly valuable. Everyone has a part to play, dont care how many babies are born today.
If in fact this is truly xda's goal...who knows...the site is large...plenty of room for emotion to find its way in.
Life is useful. (dental dams are your friend)
And above all...hitler was nothing compared to billions the russians killed of their own people...
History...it owns people every day.
Stand for something better than the illegitimate use/abuse of people.
Especially when most of these things being created are not very reliable and designed to support jobs and sales and an economy and false hopes and everything that goes along with a society that throws its lives to the foothold of a dollar bill that is utterly useless in the reality of the universe.
Real answers are not easy...take the time as much as you possibly can.
LISTEN
and when you think you cannot take anymore without putting in your two cents
LISTEN SOME MORE
there are plenty of people just hanging around that have been through it all and seen it
and you can stop acting anytime like you are one of them
real life steps in before anyone could ever make a worthwhile decision
humans...making decisions for others since breakfast
tough titties?
we'll see who's talking then...when?
the sooner the sooner

mattallica76 said:
The only thing [Bonsai] left is the user discussion thread in the General section. It's for news and users helping other users.
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I can't say whether this is ideal or not. However, folks are going to ask about Bonsai whether discussion is allowed or not. Thus, it's arguably prudent to allow one thread for its discussion to avoid having it being asked about repeatedly in new threads.
shane6374 said:
What I can say is that other sites linking to xda is how I found this site.
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This is perhaps the most important point of the thread. However it happened, xda became the definitive resource for phone hackery. If xda were to forbid off-site hotlinking, that would have the result, both direct (PageRank, robots exclusion, etc.) and indirect (through absence of news articles and other discussion) of sinking it in search results. At which point--at best--some other site would become definitive and discussion would move there, or quite possibly, no one site would emerge as definitive and discussion would become horribly fragmented.
To be honest, the primary reason I post patches here with lengthy technical descriptions is becuase, in 3-6 months time, I know someone Googling a similar problem will come across my threads and find an answer. The fact that it also contributes code to this community is a wonderful secondary benefit, but to be honest, discussion and ROM development is too ephemeral to make it worth the effort if Google wasn't around to archive the result. And it's far easier for me to do it here, and gets far more exposure and use, than if I were to run my own blog or something.

ptfdmedic said:
As long as your calling everyone else out. Mentioning a competitive site, I do believe, is against the rules.
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yeah yeah, pedantic argument.
ptfdmedic said:
Guys, these are just phones and at this point why even bring this up? I'm not suggesting that the rules be ignored but everyone constantly getting bent out of shape over this stuff isn't productive or even healthy for that matter.
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oh im not bent out of shape, that post would have been a lot more incoherent if i was.
ptfdmedic said:
PLEASE, just let the Bonsai thing just die already. They made their choice and no matter how many people complain about it, is't going to change anything. All it does is start flame wars. If you have something to say to them I suggest you contact them directly and give them a chance to address the concerns directly.
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it's called an example. Happens to be the most obvious so it's used.
btw i did contact them directly and thats how i came to the quote from randy stating that Bonsai is not a hobby it's a business.
and then the tired out saying of "i for one like to pay for good software rant" while touting the virtues of opensource.(<3 me some hypocrites)
ptfdmedic said:
Why can't we do something.......anything...but complain. Does anyone stop to think that Bonsai leaving for setting up their site the way they did has little to nothing to do with the direction the Epic forums are going in? It's bad attitudes and feelings of entitlement that are KILLING this forum, IMHO. Stop complaining and contribute to positive change. If we focus on the negative all the time that's all we are going to get.
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this isn't negative unless you read it that way, i honestly want it to change, and to find out WHY it exists.
People commenting and saying we should "all get along" sadly contribute nothing(good nor bad) to a thread.

mkasick said:
I can't say whether this is ideal or not. However, folks are going to ask about Bonsai whether discussion is allowed or not. Thus, it's arguably prudent to allow one thread for its discussion to avoid having it being asked about repeatedly in new threads.
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You would think so, but the same can't be said towards heros' rom, many threads are started to talk about it are quickly killed and its poster banned.. so it's sort of a double edged.