This has become a stickler point for me.
How exactly do these "roms" that post on xda to gain the large audience with links to thier own sites with thier own forums and downloads do it?
Why does XDA allow the threads to exist?
To me it's a confusing point, on one hand you've got the huge user base that XDA has and it's "helpful" but on the other hand these "roms" have chosen to move else where to have a clear cut definition of "who" their users are.
I for one would love to see xda delete these threads, if your rom isnt hosted here why should XDA pick up the tab on the traffic and moderation to "support" the people that don't want to follow basic rules.
It's one thing to post on here saying that it's out it's quite another to have a thread devoted to the rom for "support" when they've got their own site and thier own "donation" setup and don't offer direct links to the roms.
I'm thinking of Bonsai and Baked Snack when I say this, although other sites like ppcgeeks are guilty of it as well.
Here's the breakdown...
Baked snack was a rom a while back that Herver ran, he had people that loved his roms, but he wouldnt share his gpl code, so XDA to avoid issues banned him and removes his threads.
Bonsai started up thier own "business oriented and non-hobby"(randy's words) website and started offering up betas to people that donated, BANNING people that would share this beta software if they found out.(or so his users have said)
PPCGeeks.com basically is a forum that has very little of it's own content and tends to backlink to threads here on XDA. This should not be allowed. it's cheap and annoying to think that other forums all link back to xda but refuse to use and follow it's rules touting it as the devil for thier moderators sucking and other offhanded badness, while at the same time using it's resources for thier own gain.
If you want to follow the XDA rules on rom posting fine. Post here. If you want to have your own site to support the rom fine have the site, but if you get removed from the site for not following the rules, do NOT expect to keep using it to support your users.
The rules of posting should be simple.
If you post a rom in a thread there should NOT be an external sign up on said site to get the rom.
If you post a rom, there should NOT be a pay to play system in place to get "advanced" copies,(nor a "shopping cart" for the rom)
If you post a rom, there SHOULD be a direct link or mirror link to the rom.
If you post a rom, there should be open disclosure and read-only sources to what you've done.
In essence i for one WANT to see all support threads for non-hosted on XDA roms removed, they put a burden on XDA to moderate, the put a burden on XDA for bandwidth and hardware, and they cause undue traffic to those that don't want to play by the rules they signed up for.
Side note, i'd love to see hotlinking from other sites also disabled on XDA to stop those crap spring up offshoot websites thinking they're better and "more laid back" from not having to bother with their own content and users.
Analogy time:
Think of it like this... You've spent a lot of time and money to make a large car lot, you allow others of the community who've used your car lot to gather and sell their own cars on your lot free of charge. It all runs fine until along comes one person that feels they should be allowed to use the facilities of the lot for only themselves and break ruin the good bathroom, now they setup thier own bathroom close to thier table but only people that come to thier table and purchase a car may use this bathroom. After a little while you find that they have opened up their own car lot across the street. You ask them to take their cars elsewhere, and remove them from your lot. BUT they setup a table on your lot and take up valuable real-estate to "answer questions" about their car lot across the street AND about their cars. while using your facilities and security etc. Would you do that in normal circumstances? or would you remove their table as well and let them use their own car lot as a support and sales team for their own cars?
Anyways, thats my take on the whole off-site roms but XDA support.
Add thanks to this if you support this idea, OR post away and add something new to the conversation, *I* personally think that XDA should take a hand in removing these threads from here as they are a detriment to the community that exists and undermines the ideals attached to opensource projects.
I definitely agree with Art3mis on this one. Its ridiculous that they are still allowed to have support threads (and more that they even have support threads instead of just having them all on their own private forums as they either, didnt follow the rules of XDA, or left at their own accord).
Yeah it annoys me that bonsai still has support threads here.
you are right and i agree 100% with everything except this:
art3mis-nyc said:
Side note, i'd love to see hotlinking from other sites also disabled on XDA to stop those crap spring up offshoot websites thinking they're better and "more laid back" from not having to bother with their own content and users.
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hotlinking from other sites is how all the roms are posted whether it be private domains or sites like multiupload. there is an 8meg limit on xda attachments...so big 100+ meg rom downloads have to be linked from somewhere else to save xda's bandwidth. i personally like hosting my own files and giving direct links in threads because i can look at awstats and know how many times a file has been hit.
on that same note i agree there should be a direct link...and i mean a real direct link....not a redirect to sign up or a redirect to an ad page or anything like that...the rest of your article i agree 100%
Then don't click on the thread?? Is it really that hard?
art3mis-nyc said:
This has become a stickler point for me......(other stuff)
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Get off your high horse. You are no dev (not even cut and paste) and no mod.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk
XDA doesn't allow software that breaks the rules or off-site competition, but they allow discussion of said software. Kind of counter-intuitive, really.
Rodderik said:
hotlinking from other sites is how all the roms are posted whether it be private domains or sites like multiupload. there is an 8meg limit on xda attachments...so big 100+ meg rom downloads have to be linked from somewhere else to save xda's bandwidth.
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Click to collapse
I think he means other websites hotlinking to XDA.
All the Bonsai support threads are gone, and have been for a long while. The only thing left is the user discussion thread in the General section. It's for news and users helping other users. Everyone knows where to go for dev support when it comes to Bonsai.
But there are a couple reasons why the thread exists. First off, it doesn't break any XDA rules. They would have to break their own rules or create new ones to get rid of it. The other reason is XDA does not want to remove it. Anything that is considered controversial gets hits. The more hits, the better for advertising revenue . Every time someone tries to start a Bonsai hate thread of *****es about why it exists, people come along and either argue or agree with the OP. XDA does not care one way or the other, they get paid the same.
As Randy stated here-
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=15035075&postcount=1026
He has made every attempt to work things out, but it has been a one way process.
Deleted. Counter productive.
Sent from me!
tl;dr
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
I think this whole thing is kind of silly. The analygy given by the OP isn't even close. In xda, no physical damage was done and nothing illegal was done. You might as well been comparing a frog to a cow .
I am a huge proponent of open source, but as a business owner, I know that time is very important and good developers should be paid.
In other open source industries (I will use Drupal.org as my example), commercial and opensource get along just fine. There are many commercial companies (acquia.com) that's entire business is providing service and support for the open source products they use and promote. The commercial companies have made the open source community way stronger in these last few years. Another example would be Linux, Canonical the business backing Ubuntu.
Those industries have standards too and don't allow any non-GPL (back to the Drupal example) code to be committed in there repository. They still allow commercial companies with closed source to participate.
The "groups" (bonsai, etc...) that are talked about here are still contributing to the the community. They may not be doing it according to xda's rules, but that doesn't mean they aren't contributing.
I understand xda's motives for disallowing closed source stuff in the forums. But banning everyones ability to talk about sites outside of the forum is ridiculous. Thats like saying "we encourage and love open source" but "we hate open (source) communication".
Lastly, why you throwing PPCGeeks under the bus. Before my epic I owned 3 winmo phones. I could find way more CDMA winmo roms on PPCgeeks than I ever found on xda. Fixes were rolled out fast and the winmo community on ppcgeeks was very strong.
Rodderik said:
you are right and i agree 100% with everything except this:
hotlinking from other sites is how all the roms are posted whether it be private domains or sites like multiupload. there is an 8meg limit on xda attachments...so big 100+ meg rom downloads have to be linked from somewhere else to save xda's bandwidth. i personally like hosting my own files and giving direct links in threads because i can look at awstats and know how many times a file has been hit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is more in relation to say i started a "forum" for Superawesomeroms.com and then i have nothing to post so all i do is post links to XDA threads all the while bemoaning and berating XDA for thier crap moderation and blah blah blah blah
Well, I for one post my content here, ppcgeeks, and ACS. Obviously most of the traffic I get is here.
What I can say is that other sites linking to xda is how I found this site. I was on ppcgeeks a few months before xda, and found xda through a link off their site. I also link back to xda quite often when I'm trying to help other on another site. What that shows me is that other sites linking back to xda drives traffic here.
Traffic=revenue. Guess I don't see the problem with that.
art3mis-nyc said:
This has become a stickler point for me.
How exactly do these "roms" that post on xda to gain the large audience with links to thier own sites with thier own forums and downloads do it?
Why does XDA allow the threads to exist?
To me it's a confusing point, on one hand you've got the huge user base that XDA has and it's "helpful" but on the other hand these "roms" have chosen to move else where to have a clear cut definition of "who" their users are.
I for one would love to see xda delete these threads, if your rom isnt hosted here why should XDA pick up the tab on the traffic and moderation to "support" the people that don't want to follow basic rules.
It's one thing to post on here saying that it's out it's quite another to have a thread devoted to the rom for "support" when they've got their own site and thier own "donation" setup and don't offer direct links to the roms.
I'm thinking of Bonsai and Baked Snack when I say this, although other sites like ppcgeeks are guilty of it as well.
Here's the breakdown...
Baked snack was a rom a while back that Herver ran, he had people that loved his roms, but he wouldnt share his gpl code, so XDA to avoid issues banned him and removes his threads.
Bonsai started up thier own "business oriented and non-hobby"(randy's words) website and started offering up betas to people that donated, BANNING people that would share this beta software if they found out.(or so his users have said)
PPCGeeks.com basically is a forum that has very little of it's own content and tends to backlink to threads here on XDA. This should not be allowed. it's cheap and annoying to think that other forums all link back to xda but refuse to use and follow it's rules touting it as the devil for thier moderators sucking and other offhanded badness, while at the same time using it's resources for thier own gain.
If you want to follow the XDA rules on rom posting fine. Post here. If you want to have your own site to support the rom fine have the site, but if you get removed from the site for not following the rules, do NOT expect to keep using it to support your users.
The rules of posting should be simple.
If you post a rom in a thread there should NOT be an external sign up on said site to get the rom.
If you post a rom, there should NOT be a pay to play system in place to get "advanced" copies,(nor a "shopping cart" for the rom)
If you post a rom, there SHOULD be a direct link or mirror link to the rom.
If you post a rom, there should be open disclosure and read-only sources to what you've done.
In essence i for one WANT to see all support threads for non-hosted on XDA roms removed, they put a burden on XDA to moderate, the put a burden on XDA for bandwidth and hardware, and they cause undue traffic to those that don't want to play by the rules they signed up for.
Side note, i'd love to see hotlinking from other sites also disabled on XDA to stop those crap spring up offshoot websites thinking they're better and "more laid back" from not having to bother with their own content and users.
Analogy time:
Think of it like this... You've spent a lot of time and money to make a large car lot, you allow others of the community who've used your car lot to gather and sell their own cars on your lot free of charge. It all runs fine until along comes one person that feels they should be allowed to use the facilities of the lot for only themselves and break ruin the good bathroom, now they setup thier own bathroom close to thier table but only people that come to thier table and purchase a car may use this bathroom. After a little while you find that they have opened up their own car lot across the street. You ask them to take their cars elsewhere, and remove them from your lot. BUT they setup a table on your lot and take up valuable real-estate to "answer questions" about their car lot across the street AND about their cars. while using your facilities and security etc. Would you do that in normal circumstances? or would you remove their table as well and let them use their own car lot as a support and sales team for their own cars?
Anyways, thats my take on the whole off-site roms but XDA support.
Add thanks to this if you support this idea, OR post away and add something new to the conversation, *I* personally think that XDA should take a hand in removing these threads from here as they are a detriment to the community that exists and undermines the ideals attached to opensource projects.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As long as your calling everyone else out. Mentioning a competitive site, I do believe, is against the rules.
Guys, these are just phones and at this point why even bring this up? I'm not suggesting that the rules be ignored but everyone constantly getting bent out of shape over this stuff isn't productive or even healthy for that matter.
PLEASE, just let the Bonsai thing just die already. They made their choice and no matter how many people complain about it, is't going to change anything. All it does is start flame wars. If you have something to say to them I suggest you contact them directly and give them a chance to address the concerns directly.
Why can't we do something.......anything...but complain. Does anyone stop to think that Bonsai leaving for setting up their site the way they did has little to nothing to do with the direction the Epic forums are going in? It's bad attitudes and feelings of entitlement that are KILLING this forum, IMHO. Stop complaining and contribute to positive change. If we focus on the negative all the time that's all we are going to get.
If any threads should be deleted it is ones talking about other phones. There are forums for those. This is the Samsung Epic forum, that is the phone I have chosen for 2 years and only want to see threads about those. If an accessory or ROM is avaliable off XA for it, I want to know about it. I don't give a crap about the EVO 3d or Within or any otherstupid little phone that comes out. XDA has a general forum for that and most of these have their own forums. Don't clutter our threads with that garbage, or whiny kids saying "it's official our phone is a piece of crap"! This is the clutter that needs to be removed. Not a single thread for an offsite ROM.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
icevapor said:
I think this whole thing is kind of silly. The analygy given by the OP isn't even close. In xda, no physical damage was done and nothing illegal was done. You might as well been comparing a frog to a cow .
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Click to collapse
Not really it's a valid argument, and while you dont see it, BW useage etc is a hit when it supports items that arent on the site itself.
icevapor said:
I am a huge proponent of open source, but as a business owner, I know that time is very important and good developers should be paid.
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Click to collapse
Some very fine work perhaps the best work as far as the epic goes, is from people that do it for fun and hobby, and dont ask for donations and in some cases dont even have a link for it, yet others believe as you do apperantly that they should be able to take the others work, rename it and change it and "sell" it(ie the Bonsai clockworkmod that they simply renamed and recoloured) as noted i'm fine with charging for support, it's the software i dont like the charging to exist for.
icevapor said:
In other open source industries (I will use Drupal.org as my example), commercial and opensource get along just fine. There are many commercial companies (acquia.com) that's entire business is providing service and support for the open source products they use and promote. The commercial companies have made the open source community way stronger in these last few years. Another example would be Linux, Canonical the business backing Ubuntu.
Those industries have standards too and don't allow any non-GPL (back to the Drupal example) code to be committed in there repository. They still allow commercial companies with closed source to participate.
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Click to collapse
The difference between that and this is that the Opensource lives along side, doesnt require a signup and in most cases is "on par" with the pay version, again you're paying for support, which im fine with, but the software is available to all or none, not to who pays.(minus some features of course but rarely advanced beta copies etc)
icevapor said:
The "groups" (bonsai, etc...) that are talked about here are still contributing to the the community. They may not be doing it according to xda's rules, but that doesn't mean they aren't contributing.
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Click to collapse
I can't think of a single thing that has been contributed back, aside from the kernel fiasco for marcusants "psuedo rom"
icevapor said:
Lastly, why you throwing PPCGeeks under the bus. Before my epic I owned 3 winmo phones. I could find way more CDMA winmo roms on PPCgeeks than I ever found on xda. Fixes were rolled out fast and the winmo community on ppcgeeks was very strong.
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Click to collapse
ppcgeeks was the first site that i noticed it on and while it's not directed specifically at them, they are guilty of the above mentioned content links.
i'm not scared of negativity
and you shouldn't be either
if discussing negativity means thats all you will end up with
then ask yourself who is the real source of negativity?
deciding your fate...premonitions?
let it roll
if you never go there...you will never get it out of your system
and i'm sure thats why anyone would participate in this thread to begin with
so do it, and dig deep
just try and be as respectful as possible in your aims
dont cloud this life with misconstrued karma
if you cannot understand someones apparent stance and it appears ignorant or childish,
then try and be the bigger person and post something constructive they can actually do
otherwise you are just bickering for the sake of it
before i get too far off topic
if xda's main goal is truly web traffic...then thats what the userbase is going to comprise of...otherwise you are just out of place and belong elsewhere.
if you are just part of traffic then dont claim to be a leader with every post you make
and vise versa...dont get lost in the traffic when you know damn well you have something to offer the community that is truly valuable. Everyone has a part to play, dont care how many babies are born today.
If in fact this is truly xda's goal...who knows...the site is large...plenty of room for emotion to find its way in.
Life is useful. (dental dams are your friend)
And above all...hitler was nothing compared to billions the russians killed of their own people...
History...it owns people every day.
Stand for something better than the illegitimate use/abuse of people.
Especially when most of these things being created are not very reliable and designed to support jobs and sales and an economy and false hopes and everything that goes along with a society that throws its lives to the foothold of a dollar bill that is utterly useless in the reality of the universe.
Real answers are not easy...take the time as much as you possibly can.
LISTEN
and when you think you cannot take anymore without putting in your two cents
LISTEN SOME MORE
there are plenty of people just hanging around that have been through it all and seen it
and you can stop acting anytime like you are one of them
real life steps in before anyone could ever make a worthwhile decision
humans...making decisions for others since breakfast
tough titties?
we'll see who's talking then...when?
the sooner the sooner
mattallica76 said:
The only thing [Bonsai] left is the user discussion thread in the General section. It's for news and users helping other users.
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I can't say whether this is ideal or not. However, folks are going to ask about Bonsai whether discussion is allowed or not. Thus, it's arguably prudent to allow one thread for its discussion to avoid having it being asked about repeatedly in new threads.
shane6374 said:
What I can say is that other sites linking to xda is how I found this site.
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This is perhaps the most important point of the thread. However it happened, xda became the definitive resource for phone hackery. If xda were to forbid off-site hotlinking, that would have the result, both direct (PageRank, robots exclusion, etc.) and indirect (through absence of news articles and other discussion) of sinking it in search results. At which point--at best--some other site would become definitive and discussion would move there, or quite possibly, no one site would emerge as definitive and discussion would become horribly fragmented.
To be honest, the primary reason I post patches here with lengthy technical descriptions is becuase, in 3-6 months time, I know someone Googling a similar problem will come across my threads and find an answer. The fact that it also contributes code to this community is a wonderful secondary benefit, but to be honest, discussion and ROM development is too ephemeral to make it worth the effort if Google wasn't around to archive the result. And it's far easier for me to do it here, and gets far more exposure and use, than if I were to run my own blog or something.
ptfdmedic said:
As long as your calling everyone else out. Mentioning a competitive site, I do believe, is against the rules.
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yeah yeah, pedantic argument.
ptfdmedic said:
Guys, these are just phones and at this point why even bring this up? I'm not suggesting that the rules be ignored but everyone constantly getting bent out of shape over this stuff isn't productive or even healthy for that matter.
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oh im not bent out of shape, that post would have been a lot more incoherent if i was.
ptfdmedic said:
PLEASE, just let the Bonsai thing just die already. They made their choice and no matter how many people complain about it, is't going to change anything. All it does is start flame wars. If you have something to say to them I suggest you contact them directly and give them a chance to address the concerns directly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it's called an example. Happens to be the most obvious so it's used.
btw i did contact them directly and thats how i came to the quote from randy stating that Bonsai is not a hobby it's a business.
and then the tired out saying of "i for one like to pay for good software rant" while touting the virtues of opensource.(<3 me some hypocrites)
ptfdmedic said:
Why can't we do something.......anything...but complain. Does anyone stop to think that Bonsai leaving for setting up their site the way they did has little to nothing to do with the direction the Epic forums are going in? It's bad attitudes and feelings of entitlement that are KILLING this forum, IMHO. Stop complaining and contribute to positive change. If we focus on the negative all the time that's all we are going to get.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this isn't negative unless you read it that way, i honestly want it to change, and to find out WHY it exists.
People commenting and saying we should "all get along" sadly contribute nothing(good nor bad) to a thread.
mkasick said:
I can't say whether this is ideal or not. However, folks are going to ask about Bonsai whether discussion is allowed or not. Thus, it's arguably prudent to allow one thread for its discussion to avoid having it being asked about repeatedly in new threads.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You would think so, but the same can't be said towards heros' rom, many threads are started to talk about it are quickly killed and its poster banned.. so it's sort of a double edged.
Related
This community is so damn innovative and cooperative, it amazes me what software/ROMS get cooked here which really add a lot of productivity value to me, transforming a tedious, hard-to-read Windows Mobile User Interface into a tool that really works on the go. And I've been equally impressed by the collaborative spirit of this community in problem solving and feature tweeks.
Thus I am curious if there is an organized policy here that helps us end-users deter the scammers who grab software from XDA-developers, bundle it, and sell it across the web. I'm speaking of a prominent spot on the home page and within the information design of these forums that, just like the "Missing Kids" alerts on milk cartons, highlights prominently the latest scammers stealing work here.
I understand this forum is for actual development, but truth is this issue gets lost in "General" forums. Because it's the people who hack here who are the people being hurt directly.
Though I signed onto XDA over a year ago, and have read volumes re my T-mobile MDA and software upgrades here, I ended up being nonetheless too nervous to follow the very clear instructions posted last year with all if the various WM 6 roms developed here. And I never did upgrade.
But I have a WING now, and I wanted an iphone theme and user interface. Again I read all the sticky threads for the Herald, as well as the links from the wiki for that specific phone. After several days of trying to figure out "should I be first flashing my T-mobile ROM to a more efficient one, before then seeking to install one of the iphone themes and apps like A_C's S2U2 etc. I then did a dumb consumer thing: when searching this site using Google, I followed the links to one or two of the GOOGLE AD-WORDS hawking an iPhone theme on your PocketPC.
Long story short, I got scammed of $10 for something that was outdated and didn't even install properly on my WING... But I'd been "comforted" by the presentation on their website, http://iphonethemeforpocketpc.com , thinking I would get my head cleared of the confusion that mounts when I'd dig down deep into the many discussions of so many ROMs & themes & apps here. I got burned, that was bad enough. But it then pissed me off doubly that superior software would be found here at XDA -- and more than likely some of that guy's component cab files were simply stolen from developers right here.
I ended up back here and successfully installed the ifonz theme, A_C's S2U2 (the scam site had an old slide2unlock version... bit as everyone here knows, A_C's app is superb. I also installed Contact Manager (amazing!), PCM keyboard (what an improvement over windows), and MortPlayer (fantastic). I intend to donate to each program author.
But the purpose of this post is this: I filed a dispute with PayPal (requires login) over this scammer's non-working product and absolute refusal to even reply to my early "friendly" emails seeking install help. Went through PayPal's Resolution Center "escalation process" -- after no reply from the seller to PayPal -- and my dispute became a CLAIM for Paypal to determine outcome. PayPal's reply, denying the claim, states that they reviewed all communications and investigated the issue fully (totally not true).
I could have stopped there -- afterall i'd long ago expended way more than $10 worth of my time -- but it was for the principle of it. So I called PayPal, went through all the menu-options, screenings, and hold queues, and finally spoke to an actual Resolution Agent -- who was very nice, & actually very helpful.
However: I learned then, from her, what many of you may already know -- but I wonder DOES everyone know?, because I sure didn't... She told me that anything digital or downloadable is not even covered with any Buyer Protection as disclosed in PayPal's terms of service. So the claim got closed automatically because it didn't qualify for any dispute resolution. I was really surprised by this, that no downloadable software is subject to dispute/resolution policies -- and that's why I am writing this thread, as a service (I *hope*) to all you developers.
I first did a search here on the boards for "scams", because I wanted to find a place on this site to DISPLAY CLEARLY---> Here is a scamsite --> make sure your stuff is not being sold there. That's when I saw this sampling of threads, below, and had to wonder, is there a policy here that is clear and easy to find (NO! not that I can see!) that helps developers here by giving us end-users a place to post the hit-list of scammers on ebay, on iphonetheme websites, etc. ?
If so, I missed it in the information design here. If not, I recommend it. I know it burns you guys who are being ripped off -- but it also ticks off less-sophisticated community members like me (end-users of your hard work) to see your works exploited -- given especially their innovation and performance tweeks.
Here are just a few of the threads I found from this year, from March 08, where people reported being ripped off by people selling their works. In my view, I don't think that's enough or sufficient to just have someone start a thread saying "beware of X, Y or Z". And that's why I posted this. Thanks to all of you who make the lives of end-users more productive with your great work.
q/s
Name And Shame Ebayer Stealing Xdev Material
Bastards selling my Unlocker
Thief On The Loose At Hofo and possibly xda!
wow.. no reply. well i know i'm verbose, but i thought this would at least get a reply that explained yes/no if the site has designated a specific area to broadcast who are the current scammers operating out on he internets...
Should I be posting this into a different forum? if so, which one please/ thanks
As far as I know, there is no area warning about potential scams. There have been issues with people selling cooked roms on ebay that i'm aware of, but that normally comes up in model-specific forums.
it definitely could be helpful to have such an area on the forum, but at the same time, there have been many stickies informing people NOT to go out and sell other peoples work, and advising people against using warez and cracked programs.
Most people that have come to this forum realize there is no reason to pay for most software, as there's probably an excellent free or open source alternative. if there's not yet, someone's working on one. this forum is a mix of entusiasts, programmers, hackers, and people who just love to tweak their devices. once you come here and see the vast amounts of information, there's really no need to go anywhere else. i check the xda forums rather regularly, and pocketpcfreeware every now and again.
i don't think a scams section on the forum would help keep from people getting scammed elsewhere... they usually find this site after they've already been scammed. many of us have already taken it into our own hands, by trying to point as many people as we can here, so they can learn the beauty of free, well maintained software and roms made by people who just want to help others enjoy their devices more and more.
scammers are more like a disease... and prevention is the best medicine.
alongenemylines said:
As far as I know, there is no area warning about potential scams. There have been issues with people selling cooked roms on ebay that i'm aware of, but that normally comes up in model-specific forums.
it definitely could be helpful to have such an area on the forum, but at the same time, there have been many stickies informing people NOT to go out and sell other peoples work, and advising people against using warez and cracked programs.
Most people that have come to this forum realize there is no reason to pay for most software, as there's probably an excellent free or open source alternative. if there's not yet, someone's working on one. this forum is a mix of entusiasts, programmers, hackers, and people who just love to tweak their devices. once you come here and see the vast amounts of information, there's really no need to go anywhere else. i check the xda forums rather regularly, and pocketpcfreeware every now and again.
i don't think a scams section on the forum would help keep from people getting scammed elsewhere... they usually find this site after they've already been scammed. many of us have already taken it into our own hands, by trying to point as many people as we can here, so they can learn the beauty of free, well maintained software and roms made by people who just want to help others enjoy their devices more and more.
scammers are more like a disease... and prevention is the best medicine.
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There have been instances where its come to the attention of the community here and the developers of ROMS and programs that their work is being packaged and sold on ebay and the like. Obviously this behavior is viewed very negatively. While there is no policy or "organized" efforts to monitor and react, when someone does point out an instance, the community members rally around and do what they can to call the guy out, and warn potential scammees of it. Ebay is often notified directly, and also comments on the sellers postings on ebay are made to warn.
And yes, your post is verbose
Android is open. That's why I have my Samsung Galaxy S, my Nexus One and my Sapphire.
I have these phones because the open community can do better than the professionals, and I am proud to be a member of a community that has recently hacked Froyo onto the G1, Android2HD2 (and other Winmo devices), created great skins and themes, rooted almost every droid to date, hacked google navigation to work in other countries etc etc etc.
There is amazing work being done is this community.
Kingklick was able to put out a lot of ROMs which satisfied a lot of people. Contributors to Cyanogenmod (disclaimer. notably not Cyanogen himself) and others (fans and friends - disclaimer. note lack of word fanboys - of cyanogenmod, disclaimer. plus some others too) have flamed and flamed away about Kangklick (notably via twitter - I have stopped following any of those jerks that clogged up my feeds with what could've - screw that - should've been settled MUCH more privately..I followed you guys for dev news or the occasional interesting insight into your real life, not your petty bickering, but you have every right to post what you like...hence why I stopped following you all, I didn't flame you...note 'bigger man').
Rule 12 of XDArules clearly states that using the work of others must be done with permission, independent of whether it is open source or not. If this is not upheld then the post will be bought down, it does not say the user will be banned. I would understand the formality of taking the post down and requesting Kingklick reposts the ROM with due credit, but I believe - note believe...implies opinion - that moderators may have been influenced by pressure from other (high ranking, public eye) members and thus did not adhere to normal or just (I do not know if not giving creds is normally treated in this way, but you will discover I believe it shouldn't be) protacol. Kingklick broke the rules of XDA, but then again I see his banning as the least contentious issue here.
I believe that members of the XDA community in the public eye (ie with large Twitter follower base) due to their work via XDA (no matter what you say, cyanogenmod may be based at its own domain, but it still posts at XDA to maintain its public profile and feed of the massive XDA userbase, and is hence in part bound by this) have a responsibility to follow the rules of XDA on XDA rules and disputes. I do not think this is something which can be policed ('I'm banning you Wes for Trolling Kingklick...on Twitter'... not gonna work) but I think it is a moral obligation (anyone that thinks the internet is not bound by morality should take a reality check...the reason why we have open source is essentially ethics).
Do we give credit to Linus Torvalds every time we distribute linux kernels or work to do with linux? Do we give credit to those that helped him create this base? Do we give credit to Google for creating Android? HTC? Our carriers? Martin Cooper for inventing the mobile phone and cell networks? Time Berners-Lee for inventing the internet, giving rise to this forum, Google and thus the Phones/Devices we love and use? The fact is we don't give credit where due (although you may say its obscure to thank these people, they DO deserve our thanks). None of the ROM chefs/coders give all credit where due, but a lot do in part, with those directly involved. But who still thanks the original rooters?
Kingklick has been declared a copier by the jury...I haven't delved through the evidence to confirm this...but shouldn't we be much more relaxed about copying in general? All users should be open about their work with Android, but they are not. If kingklick based a build off Cyanongenmod, and gave due credit for that, he would be called unoriginal, despite his attempts to make improvements. I also believe that there should be transparency, a log of all complaints of interest and the community told in a statement from the mods why someone was banned...at least in part (keeping gory details to themselves thank you very much).
Donations are generally given by 'end-users'...noobs who can flash and maybe do some work on the builds but their contributions are limited. End users generally want user experience, and reward devs with commendation and donations. If kingklick does work on a build which satisfies more users and he hence gets donations, is that stealing donations? No. The original dev works on an open source project knowing that their work is open, but the end user can reward as he/she likes. Perhaps kingklick developed his following due to his branding...he did always use words like FAST and STABLE and SMOOTH, but Apple do the same and they're not banned from trading despite the hyperbole.
I do not doubt that a lot of devs thanks fellow devs with donations. Cyanogen is well known for donating, as is kingklick, however a lot of donations come from end users, and if kingklick replaces a few files using winrar (something which I generally contest, I believe kingklick does a lot of great work) and that satisfies more end users by being fast and stable and smooth (or perceived as being so thanks to branding) then he can get donations for that, they are a gesture of satisfaction and goodwill.
Kingklick was immoral by not giving true credit, however I believe that he could have been warned and asked to give credit once he got back from his night out (whether that excuse, or what ever his actual excuse was, was true).
I also laugh at the accusation that kingklick does not fill a niche within the 'open'/'free' community. This should not result in grudges and flame wars, whether it is true or not. Kingklick did fill a niche in my opinion: reviewers (and consumers) see vanilla android as being sterile. Hell it is sterile, and it's never going to be as successful as others if it doesn't sort this out. Cyanogenmod and other big names are based off this sterile form of Android, but they don't delve into Sense UI and other alternative skins, mainly due to preferences or copyright problems etc, not that that stops them with other things. Kingklick did work with these and he filled his niche by delivering great, fast, usable roms of these whilst others sneered at them for being inefficient coding or whatever...geeky snobbery.
Kingklick also delivered various fixes and things which other groups did not. I won't list all of these and I am sure representatives of Cyanogenmob et al will say 'we were gonna fix these issues anyways' or 'that's redundant' or 'that was patchy code', but kingklick has contributed. Obviously we have to hold ethics above output, we can not say that 'his holiness' (inteneded to mock those who believe cyanogen alone is a god, not cyanogen himself) Cyanogen's contributions to android exempt him from following conduct, but we do a great job of driving away good developers with flaming and telling tales. Perhaps you'll say kingklick was not a good developer, Drizzy, even Haykuro etc etc, but I only flashed Cyanogenmod on my Nexus once and I didn't like it for various reasons (personal preference yada yada) but I kept going back for more kingklick...whether that's perceived speed and branding etc or just satisfaction.
King's desire roms are great, but we never mobbed, trolled and banned the poor guy for not giving creds to HTC. Surely the morality of our community using software like Rosie on the Nexus is more ethically questionable than a fellow member of XDA's work, since HTC is a firm which employs people. I bought a Nexus over the Desire because I knew I could still have Sense and a bigger dev community, however the cost included in the Desire which goes to the developers of Sense is hence forgone (perhaps indeirectly, I don;t know HTC internal funding); therefore I have - and anyone who has ever flashed a Sense ROM or devved with Sense - indirectly caused loss of welfare for people who rely of developing as their source of income, tehir families, communities and economies. Surely that is less ethical than not saying thank you, but XDA has no problem with that. Perhaps it is too small to notice, but it will have an indirect impact nonetheless.
Yes kingklick should've said his please and thank you, but I think it's community hyped double standards, pretensical courtesy (not that I wouldn't give creds, it's just that pleases and thank yous are nice, but not actually useful). A wise man once said 'there is no threshold for immorality', just because kingklick did a larger 'crime' than the rest of the community in not giving his thanks out, that does not exempt the other rule breakers (ie everyone), it just means their punishment should be less severe...we choose to ignore it because it's less direct or forgotten about.
In conclusion, I think we should start a 'contributors to Android' part of XDA, added to by mods or specifically appointed members of the community (like the portal). This could be informative and could mean that forgotten about contributors could not be forgotten, but their contributions immortalised in the open community of Android. Even if the contributions become redundant, they are the foundations for the next chapter in the Android story.
Finally. www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html is a very good read..and think about what AOSP stands for (I'll give you a clue...Android Open Source Project!). Can you steal what is open? What right have others to dictate what can and cannot be distributed in the open aspects of Android code (ie the underlying OS and vanilla UI...I'm not confused with Apps). Perhaps kingklick was guilty of plagiarism? But so is anyone that claims they worked really hard in that kernel without crediting Linus and leaving a donation link to his family or favourite charitable causes. Anyone that says I've reworked the UI without giving credits to The Astonishing Tribe for the original Android concepts which all UIs are based off...
Android is closed, that's why I question this 'community'.
I am not proud to be a member of this 'community'...right now.
Ps. Cyanogenmob was originally a typo (using words like mobbed in my piece...Freudian slip on the keyboard rather than fat finger syndrome)...but I kept it in as I thought it was funny...the Cyogenmob should replace team douche IMHO!
Pps. Originally posted in Android Dev general but moved here as its Nexus dev themed!
im proud of myself for actually completing this reading haha. interesting read though.
cheddie said:
im proud of myself for actually completing this reading haha. interesting read though.
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Im more proud of you for successfully quoting the entire thing...I might submit it for my dissertation next year
HazzBazz said:
Im more proud of you for successfully quoting the entire thing...I might submit it for my dissertation next year
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hahah thanks for bringing that to my attention. had to edit it lol
To be fair I posted the god darn epic rant/essay/post...my bad !
HazzBazz said:
To be fair I posted the god darn epic rant/essay/post...my bad !
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No, I posted it! I worked long and hard last week to write it out. I am accepting donations to cover my time spent though.
All this happens because altruism is evil in the sense that it is a lie. Altruists demand payment too, in the form of recognition, appreciation, respect, reputation, and all these similar thirst for prestige.
In NOT giving recognition to comrades In arms who share a common need for prestige, it is theft among kin, robbing prestige.
Prestige is indeed a rotten currency.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
Touche...topical. Doesn't really do anything against my points, I am saying kingklick is guilty among many but they are appeased because they haven't got flames burning them. I do believe that kingklick should always give credit where due.
caysman said:
All this happens because altruism is evil in the sense that it is a lie. Altruists demand payment too, in the form of recognition, appreciation, respect, reputation, and all these similar thirst for prestige.
In NOT giving recognition to comrades In arms who share a common need for prestige, it is theft among kin, robbing prestige.
Prestige is indeed a rotten currency.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
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Good point...the fact is cyanogenmod wouldn't be as big with as many great ethusiastic devs without the praise it got...but is that a fair compromise for contributions...
I really think that the issue is the same as black droid. The Problem isn't that king copied the rom and redistributed it. The problem is that he did so claiming that it was his work based off of CM. When in reality he downloaded a a finished copy of CM, compiled by the CM team, and then changed a few lines the build.prop, renamed it and asked for donations. I personally can't see how that is helping the community at all. I really don't care about King one way or the other but I do think that the people who do the work should get credit for it. They spend countless hours writing code for us to have for FREE. Code you yourself says is better than what google puts out. They do this in their spare time and ask for nothing but recognition. You think that is wrong? I am amazed by this. Really I am.
HazzBazz said:
Good point...the fact is cyanogenmod wouldn't be as big with as many great ethusiastic devs without the praise it got...but is that a fair compromise for contributions...
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Don't misunderstand me. Payment is due, for sure, and payment makes our world go round, but I do wish it were not in the form of mousy prestige, rotten evil currency that it is. Money is a much better choice, but prestige seekers pretend to loathe $ probably because $ is less ambiguous.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
They do this in their spare time and ask for nothing but recognition. You think that is wrong? I am amazed by this. Really I am.
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But they do not explicitly ask for recognition do they? Even the great cyanogen does not do that, because once they impose recognition expressly as a mode of payment you would recognize that their asking for your adulation and love would seen a more demanding payment than asking for cash.
And also the inconvenience of the prestige seekers being more easily mistaken for all the money grabbing corporations which they demonize.
I'd make it clear that I have not wanted anything other than cyanogen's roms during my g1 days, and adulation I'd gladly pay, plus I have donated in money.
These guys made android exciting and formed PART of the inspiration for the paid android developers. It is unfortunate that the society's misconception of altruism as ' good' destroyed a lot of the language required to denounce it as the evil it actually is.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
Gr8gorilla said:
I really think that the issue is the same as black droid. The Problem isn't that king copied the rom and redistributed it. The problem is that he did so claiming that it was his work based off of CM. When in reality he downloaded a a finished copy of CM, compiled by the CM team, and then changed a few lines the build.prop, renamed it and asked for donations. I personally can't see how that is helping the community at all. I really don't care about King one way or the other but I do think that the people who do the work should get credit for it. They spend countless hours writing code for us to have for FREE. Code you yourself says is better than what google puts out. They do this in their spare time and ask for nothing but recognition. You think that is wrong? I am amazed by this. Really I am.
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it was actually jubehs rom he did that with.....
@OP, Omitting credit and stealing are completely different things. kk downloaded jubehs rom and changed 5-10 files and claimed it as his own. when confronted with this, kk said he compiled it himself even though the evidence overwhelmingly pointed at the other direction. He claimed to have built it from asop, when all he did was take someones rom and change a few files. if he said he "cooked" the rom from another (even without saying who) he would have been ok. But he continued to lie after he was caught which is probably why the ban hammer was dropped.
Most of this plus the damning evidence is located in the g1 section.
Also, android does not follow the GNU licensing, it follows apache, and by default, the devs who release their material here are also released under apache. Apache allows people to see the source so they can better understand it to develop, but people who use the source to develop something from it are not required to open source their works. they are also allow to put their own terms which would include giving proper credit.
AFAIK xda mods actually work together to decide on what to do with offenders. i know thats what they did for the wrecking crew (though some mods were less fair than others -_- )
PS: i havent used cyanogen mod since like 3.6.8 before the C&D lol
The sad fact is, it takes money to live in the world today. A lot of these programmers make good money 9-5 at their day jobs. The average computer engineer spends about 100,000 dollars going to college then makes about 60-70k per year after. This is working on a salary basis probably putting 40-60 hours per week. After that they spend another 20+ writing code for us because they like to. I can completely understand the devs wanting someone who copied and renamed their work to be banned.
That would be like you taking Johnny Cash's Ring of Fire, Calling it Circle of Fire and trying to sell it as your own. You would get sued, etc. Come on people how can you defend this guy, come on really?
Tl,dr the OP.
flybyme said:
Omitting credit and stealing are completely different things. kk downloaded jubehs rom and changed 5-10 files and claimed it as his own. when confronted with this, kk said he compiled it himself even though the evidence overwhelmingly pointed at the other direction. He claimed to have built it from asop, when all he did was take someones rom and change a few files. if he said he "cooked" the rom from another (even without saying who) he would have been ok. But he continued to lie after he was caught which is probably why the ban hammer was dropped.
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If this is true, he got what he deserved. I had a similar thing happen when I wrote a script for the iphone which gets about 75-100 downloads a day. Someone from a forum put their name on it, posted it saying they were up all night writing it and put a donation link at the bottom of their post.
When confronted, they lied and said it didn't work so they rewrote it, but a simple comparison showed the only changes made was to echo commands which displayed the author's name and some text about how to run it. They also had no clue how it worked and gave bad advice about how to use it, and there were a lot of people on that forum using it, having problems and asking questions.
I didn't really care, and I never got a penny for my work, but it forced me to think about it, and what I came up with was: what use is there in having that kind of thing around? They aren't contributing or advancing ideas, they're confusing them and possibly screwing things up.
The douche that stole my script went from "moderator" to "supermoderator" at that site. If that was your site, why would you even want to keep him around? I'm not a banhammer kinda guy, but there's no upside to allowing things like that to continue.
Im no developer, but i do see both sides of the story. But I mean this is no way to act.
[email protected] please tell your teamdouche to grow up. We all know it was someone in it that just made that name
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kingklick92
whoever made that account with MY name haha ur f****g retarded, Ill see you in court. You distribuuted MY name
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kingklick92
whether you were in the right or not.
I think credit should just be given when you use someones work just like you would want the same for your work.
Delete if not acceptable.
Oh for ****'s sake.
OP, you're being a white-knighting ninny. KK got what he deserved: "open-source" doesn't mean an eradication of common courtesy--and crediting is common courtesy. You're trying to weasel around "blah blah why don't we credit HTC and Google" which is sheer, utter, retarded straw man. We know who developed Android by implication unless you live under a rock. Not so with specific individual community contributions.
Besides, what did KK even do? All I saw in the N1 development section from him was ROMs based off other people's work slightly modified, or rubbish that never worked like his attempt to port Blur. I say good riddance. The fact that he managed to scam donations off people hardly helps his case. I'd sooner donate to the source/original contributors, not such a juvenile, plagiarizing, useless waste of oxygen.
Viewsonic Gtablet Specific Binaries & Drivers
For everyone who may have been waiting for this I present to you the proper Proprietary Viewsonic Gtablet Binaries & Drivers according to Cyanogen Mods Tutorial of Compiling Gingerbread Rom which also discusses how to pull the Proprietary Drivers and Binaries from a Malata smb_a1002 Device which is a Viewsonic Gtablet specifically.
To all who want to test with these Binaries and Drivers before testing with these please understand that these are the Binaries and Drivers the Viewsonic Gtablet Stock ROM uses. When using these specific Binaries and Drivers understand that these files may already exist and that replacing just one of these can disrupt the way a current ROM may be running. This can be caused for a number of reasons...
1. When replacing the libraries and binaries with these understand the alot of these specific files are tied together to make the Gtablet work the way it does, so in essence replacing one of these libraries or binaries with one on another ROM can cause the ROM itself to look for the other libraries and binary files that are specifically in this package.
2. You may get away with mixing and mingling these files but it's a hard and time consuming process to debug which ones can and can't work with other vendors binaries and libraries but this is how the work must be done
3. If there is a file missing do not blame me this is what I know according to Cyanogen MODs Wiki. If you wan to view there tutorial go to there website, and look through there WIKI.
Proprietary Android Binaries & Drivers: http://linuxboxsolution.com/linux-b...t-Proprietary-Android-Binaries--and--Drivers/
Issues have seemed to be resolved with submission to github.
That zip file would've been slightly more useful had it contained the original paths of those proprietary files.
Issues have seemed to be resolved with submission to github.
** deleted **
Thanks for the work LBS
mmenzie said:
can a MODERATOR please step in on this??? the above comments do NOTHING to further the development of this or any other thing!!! i'm not a developer or anything... i am just a tester testing all the wonderful things all the Devs let us test. are you a developer??? are you a programmer??? are you even using the products of this developer??? i am guessing the answer is NO to all questions. if thats the case please just sit back and read and do not interact with this thread or any other thread where your business is to knock the product. unless you are a developer, a programmer, or a tester willing to add CONSTRUCTIVE CRITISIM or "thank yous" there is no need for you to post anything at all in this or any other thread.
CONSTRUCTIVE CRITISIM and helpful hints and positive feedback are the only things that further development and we should all consider this before making a post.
i will now climb down from my soap box and let thgis get back on topic (hopefully)
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Critisism and words of caution are equally as important as praise.
Be wary of of folks trumpetting the quality of their product to increase profit while doing nothing to provide evidence to support those claims.
That said, what TnT build do these files come from and are they different than what is used in CM7 or some of the AOSP based projects ?
nunjabusiness said:
What exactly does this group of files bring to the table?
If it is simply the extracted stuff from the original TapNCrap that it came with, the only thing I can think of that we are really missing now in the HC ROMs is camera support.
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In my eyes the only major issues with HC are:
1 camera support (possibly fixed with these files)
2 hardware acceleration (probaly not fixed with these files)
So, one of the two major HC drawbacks might be fixed. IMO camera support isn't as importent as hardware acceleration, but it's still on my 'must have' list. Who cares if camera support came from TapNCrap, as long as it works?
All of the HC ROMS are on par with each other (pre-packaged apps and launchers aside) so if one HC ROM gets camera working then that would be the better ROM IMO.
ramerco said:
That said, what TnT build do these files come from and are they different than what is used in CM7 or some of the AOSP based projects ?
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Excellent question, I'd like to know the answer too. Does it come from a ROM with keyboard/mouse support, for example?
macbroom said:
Another attempt to drive your site traffic up for profit using open source material.
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I went to his site and I saw no ads, no banners, no links for a donation or links to other products. MAybe those links were there but they were not prominent, so it hardly looks like an ad scheme, it's not like thousands of people will flock to his site to download files and be drawn into his tangled web of crafty salesmanship. How many people are developing ROMs for the gTab?
Why does it matter if it's his site vs another site?
edirector said:
His behavior is like cyber bullying because he is following this developer from forum to forum to post often-times character assassinating stuff. He might want to consider someone pulling his ip address and seeing who he really is and if he is affecting the developers income, be sued.
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I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you have very little knowledge of the law in general and zero about civil law as it relates to defamation.
Regardless of provocation, please do not threaten legal action against someone (albeit groundless) as that is just as heinous a violation of forum rules.
Here they are for your edification (I particularly like #8 and #12):
Forum & Marketplace Rules
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FORUM RULES
1. Search before posting.
Use one of our search functions before posting, whether you have a question or something new to share, it's very likely someone already asked that question or shared that news.
2. Member conduct.
2.1 Language: XDA is a worldwide community. As a result what is ‘ok’ to say in your part of the world may not be ok in someone else’s part of the world. Please think about who is reading what you write. Keep in mind that what you think of as acceptable use of language may not be acceptable to others. Conversely, while reading member posts, remember that word you find offensive may not be to the writer. Tolerance is a two way street.
2.2 Nudity: XDA is used by people of all ages, including minors. It's not acceptable to post nude/pornographic imagery, which includes exposure of the male or female genitalia or of female breasts.
2.3 Flaming: XDA was founded as a group of people sharing information about certain mobile phones. Sharing does not involve virtual yelling (flaming) it does involve working together to solve problems in an environment of mutual respect and understanding. Losing your temper and flaming another member, or group of members, is not acceptable behavior.
2.4 Personal attacks, racial, political and/or religious discussions: XDA is a discussion forum about certain mobile phones. Mobile phones are not racial, political, religious or personally offensive, therefore none of these types of discussions are permitted on XDA.
2.5 New Members: Treat new members the way you would have liked to have been treated when you were a new member. Provide the new members with guidance, advice and instruction always with respect and courtesy.
2.6 All members are expected to read and adhere to the XDA rules.
3. Post only using a clear subject and message.
You're most likely to receive a helpful answer to your question if you use a short subject title that describes your problem and a message that explains in detail what your problem is and what you've tried to solve it.
4. Use the English language.
We understand that with all the different nationalities not everyone speaks English well, but please try. If you're really unable to post in English use an online translator, You're free to include your original message in your own language below the English translation.
5. Post a message only once.
As a large forum we don't need unnecessary clutter, You're free to edit your message as you like, so if you do not receive an answer revisit your message and see if you can describe your problem better. Not everyone is online at the same time, it might take a while before you receive an answer.
6. Do not post warez.
If a piece of software requires you to pay to use it, either pay or find your cracks and serials somewhere else. We do not accept warez nor do we permit any member to promote or describe ways in which Warez, cracks, serial codes or other means of avoiding payment, can be obtained.
7. Do not spam.
If you wish to advertise a product, contact us we provide ads. But do not post it in the forums, it will be removed and you're likely to receive a ban.
You are however allowed to sell used goods like your own device, parts of your device or accessories for your device in the marketplace forum, please read the rules there before posting. (This rule includes signatures, if you use a signature it will appear in your post)
8. Donations.
We appreciate all donations to xda-developers.com, it keeps our forum online and well maintained. As a user you're allowed to ask for donations in your signature as a thank you for your hard work. However donations up front are not allowed, this forum is about sharing, not about getting paid to do something, that's what your job is for.
9. Don't get us in trouble.
Don't post copyrighted materials or do other things that will obviously lead to legal trouble. If you wouldn't do it on your own homepage, you probably don't want to do it here either. This does not mean we agree with everything the software piracy lobby try to impose on us, it simply means you cannot break any laws here, since we'll end up dealing with legal hassle caused by you. Please use common sense: respect the forum, its users, and those that write great code.
10. Help others if you can.
If you see posts from others where you can help out, please do. This place exists because people are helping each other, and even if you are relatively new to the matter, there's probably already quite a few people newer than you that would benefit from what you've learned. Don't be shy.
11. Don’t post with the intention of selling something.
•Don’t use XDA to advertise your product or service. Proprietors of for-pay products or services, may use XDA to get feedback, provide beta access, or a free version of their product for XDA users and offer support, but not to post with the intention of selling. This includes promoting sites similar/substantially similar to XDA-Developers.com.
•Do not post press releases, announcements, links to trial software, or commercial services. unless you’re posting an exclusive release for XDA-Developers.com.
•Encouraging members to participate in forum activities on other phone related sites is prohibited.
•Off-site downloads are permitted if the site is non-commercial and does not require registration.
•Off-site downloads from sites requiring registration are NOT encouraged but may be permitted if the following conditions are met:
A) the site belongs to a member of XDA-Developers with at least 1500 posts and 2 years membership who actively maintains XDA-Developers' support thread(s) / posts, related to the download,
B) the site is a relatively small personal website without commercial advertising/links (i.e. not a competitor forum-based site with purposes and aims similar to those of XDA-Developers.com.)
12. Using the work of others.
If you are developing something that is based on the work of another Member, you MUST first seek their permission, and you must give credit to the member whose work you used. If a dispute occurs about who developed / created a piece of work, first try to settle the matter by private message and NOT in open forum. If this fails then you may contact a moderator with clear evidence that the work was created by you.
Convincing evidence will result in copied work being removed. If there is no clear evidence you created the work then in the spirit of sharing all work will remain posted on the forums.
These rules apply to all software posted on XDA unless that software comes with a license that waives these rules.
What if macbroom and LBS are the same person. He created an alter ego just to stir interest and attention to himself because he loves it. Twist!
Directed by M. Night Shamwamthankyoumam
nunjabusiness said:
...
Here they are for your edification (I particularly like #8 and #12):
...
8. Donations.
We appreciate all donations to xda-developers.com, it keeps our forum online and well maintained. As a user you're allowed to ask for donations in your signature as a thank you for your hard work. However donations up front are not allowed, this forum is about sharing, not about getting paid to do something, that's what your job is for.
12. Using the work of others.
If you are developing something that is based on the work of another Member, you MUST first seek their permission, and you must give credit to the member whose work you used. If a dispute occurs about who developed / created a piece of work, first try to settle the matter by private message and NOT in open forum. If this fails then you may contact a moderator with clear evidence that the work was created by you.
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Well said.
The vast majority of the responses in this thread are pretty shameful. And I think the most a moderator could do is edit some of these comments (which, imo, they should).
Some advise - on occasion I've lost my cool and written things I later regretted. I suggest that some of you use the edit button, clean up the hateful comments and maybe drop in a "I apologize" retraction while you're at it.
And @LBS, keep in mind that most people do appreciate what you do (myself included). I know how hard it is to make ROM's, and support them, but there will always be a few bad apples. I have pulled back from here (and Slatedroid and TR) this summer as I decompress a bit, so I'm not sure if there's some history outside of this thread which created this tension. But from my vantage point, all LBS is doing is using his own web site to better control how he disseminates information. How is that any different than what goodintentions is doing, for example? Isn't the end goal to help users make the most of their GTAB?
bebopblues said:
What if macbroom and LBS are the same person. He created an alter ego just to stir interest and attention to himself because he loves it. Twist!
Directed by M. Night Shamwamthankyoumam
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Lol! WHAT A TWIST! Well done on the robot chicken reference
roebeet said:
The vast majority of the responses in this thread are pretty shameful. And I think the most a moderator could do is edit some of these comments (which, imo, they should).
Some advise - on occasion I've lost my cool and written things I later regretted. I suggest that some of you use the edit button, clean up the hateful comments and maybe drop in a "I apologize" retraction while you're at it.
And @LBS, keep in mind that most people do appreciate what you do (myself included). I know how hard it is to make ROM's, and support them, but there will always be a few bad apples. I have pulled back from here (and Slatedroid and TR) this summer as I decompress a bit, so I'm not sure if there's some history outside of this thread which created this tension. But from my vantage point, all LBS is doing is using his own web site to better control how he disseminates information. How is that any different than what goodintentions is doing, for example? Isn't the end goal to help users make the most of their GTAB?
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Click to collapse
Thank you, Roebeet I have been tirelessly supporting LBS's effort. It was starting to feel like a full time job. I am glad you jumped in. It is bad when conversation is not about the rom but gets more personal in nature. People were coming at me because I expressed my like of his work which is pretty darn good at that. But you know I am a fan of your work too. You pioneered the HC rom industry for G Tab, so you know we appreciate you. I trbardelljr I hope I got his name right of Flashback is doing an incredible job as well even though I haven't tried his rom yet. My problem is I got hooked on illuminate because it is that good.
I noticed some have gotten into the dual rom running and I might try that so I can check out different roms at the same time, too.
Enjoy your down time. We look forward to your return.
roebeet said:
The vast majority of the responses in this thread are pretty shameful. And I think the most a moderator could do is edit some of these comments (which, imo, they should).
Some advise - on occasion I've lost my cool and written things I later regretted. I suggest that some of you use the edit button, clean up the hateful comments and maybe drop in a "I apologize" retraction while you're at it.
And @LBS, keep in mind that most people do appreciate what you do (myself included). I know how hard it is to make ROM's, and support them, but there will always be a few bad apples. I have pulled back from here (and Slatedroid and TR) this summer as I decompress a bit, so I'm not sure if there's some history outside of this thread which created this tension. But from my vantage point, all LBS is doing is using his own web site to better control how he disseminates information. How is that any different than what goodintentions is doing, for example? Isn't the end goal to help users make the most of their GTAB?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have edited some of my posts in the interest of cleaning up some of the residual mess in this thread. I also suggest that some others do the same so we can get back on track.
I hope that you are enjoying your break and time with your family and we all hope that you will return in the near future. You were the main reason that I purchased my Gtab.
P.S. You may also want to edit your last post after catching up on the other threads.
macbroom said:
I have edited some of my posts in the interest of cleaning up some of the residual mess in this thread. I also suggest that some others do the same so we can get back on track.
I hope that you are enjoying your break and time with your family and we all hope that you will return in the near future. You were the main reason that I purchased my Gtab.
P.S. You may also want to edit your last post after catching up on the other threads.
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I just went back and re-read the posts I have made in the past couple of weeks here and stand behind every one 100%.
Now ... on the OTHER forum I (and others) may have gotten a little bit too zealous in some posts but ultimately, the mods agreed with us and locked the threads.
To be completely fair though, none of those posts got really combative until "autistic" started it.
Hey,
Folks, there is a new version of illuminate that was released yesterday that is outstanding... to spin off on from the fact we are on LBS's thread. While many of us may not know how to use these "binaries and drivers" but LBS and other devs do and they are more then likely included somewhere in his updated rom. It is a pretty incredible HC rom.
The speed on it is astounding with no hick-ups. I spent last night driving it hard just to see what it could do and matching the differences in his previous releases. It is pretty incredible. Loads multimedia files...pics, videos and music like they are text.
Update from the LBS kernel thread
jerdog said:
Kernel source needs provided as per GPL. All this looks like is a rebranding of someone else's kernel - to dispel that belief please provide source and changes or else this will be removed as it would be in violation of the rules.
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Hmmm, deja vu anyone?
macbroom said:
I have edited some of my posts in the interest of cleaning up some of the residual mess in this thread. I also suggest that some others do the same so we can get back on track.
I hope that you are enjoying your break and time with your family and we all hope that you will return in the near future. You were the main reason that I purchased my Gtab.
P.S. You may also want to edit your last post after catching up on the other threads.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had mentioned that I wasn't sure if there was a history, but I suspected that there might be as these things usually are a slow boil. Since I've been out-of-the-loop, if there were other threads I hadn't seen them, at least not yet.
Honestly, I haven't delved into these other HC ROMs recently, so I don't know what's in them. So I can't base an opinion unless I ripped them apart -- the last one I did open up was Flashback, so I know that tlbardelljr had some unique stuff in the framework.
The point was that people need to be careful as these things can be taken out of context if they don't know the history (if there is a history). I know this from personal experience, unfortunately.
{Over a twentytwo hundred views- i seem to have struck a nerve. Alot of us had this problem- then I solutioned it out for us all}
Says [ROM] in the title but theres no rom to be had????
You had this experience lately? They make you Click here... click there. These guys make an XDA member play whack a-mole-look-for-the-rom link games?
Because of proprietary registration requirement some featured roms on this page cannot be downloaded by XDA members. Why is this being allowed?
XDA set up a perfectly reasonable system that worked JUST fine. WE DON'T NEED 50 websites to sign up for!!! - to get roms. All we need was XDA.
A few groups think they are entitled to change XDA(to its detriment) into their *****. Post links to these roms I'll put them here. We need to break these folks out of this habit. They say it isnt against XDA rules for them to do this- well then it wont be against XDA rules for me to post them
right in this post at the bottom of this post.
Its what ANDROID is all about. Open Source.
Mik and this Sac's Kingdom rom and some others cant be downloaded. (I like their roms- since I'm trying to download em-duh)
Has money changed hands? what is the deal?
Why are these roms --that we can't get unless we register on their crappy webpages-- featured on XDA Android Rom page? WTF?
And for all the sychophants, buttsniffer brigade and scene kids- racing to their rescue-:you see their troll comments in abundance: If every rom you ever download you need to sign up for their proprietary page- why do we need XDA then?
If this continues- XDA is cutting its own throat. I won't use a rom I have to sign up elsewhere to get it.
(So please post mirror links to Mik Roms and Sacs Kingdom Roms so the rest of us don't have to register)
XDA set up a perfectly reasonable system that worked JUST fine. WE DON'T NEED 50 websites to sign up for!!! - to get roms. All we need was XDA. This is a game changer.
I understand the sychophants and scenies will do what ever they are told.
But XDa had it right and these people are messing up a good thing- tryna make it their thing. And I call bull****!.
And this isn't a Q&A. This needs to be addressed by XDA- or we can just post links and nobody would be mad.
We just want straight-up Rom links!
If two guys do it- MIK and SACS to drive traffic for their own websites- it'll be prevalent in a week.
And XDA will not have any relevance.
The buttsniffers, sychophants and scene kids say- it only takes a minute to register over here, then over there, then here and here too! yeah! and there and...- blah blah blah.
What you gonna do when synergy or Kings or ACS or -take your pick- does this same thing?
And all the rest of them do it?
This needs to stop NOW.
here:
Hit thanks if you agree with me...
I agree completely so I am willing to give up this second post on the thread for what you guys need it for
No -rom development that doesnt lead to actual roms dont belong here
lui22 said:
hey bro
i know this is an important question but it belongs in the Q&A.
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Click to collapse
Asking why XDA allows this isnt a Q and A- these lames are taking up space that actual developers offering real roms can use. This practice needs to stop and wont be put in a lil box elsewhere. All these guys are doing with tacit XDA approval- it seems- is promoting proprietary webpages that take people off XDA. To their site. They offer us nothing but a registration elsewhere. They are just taking up XDA space and tryingto get XDA members onto their own webs.
I agree.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Damn it sounds like some folks got sour milk in their cereal. All of the sites you are complaining about are "FREE" to register on and do not ask anything or for any money from you to get access to their links. So if XDA admins don't have a problem with it why should anyone else. After all it only takes about 60 second more out of your day.
"Hell I don't know"
selders59 said:
Damn it sounds like some folks got sour milk in their cereal. All of the sites you are complaining about are "FREE" to register on and do not ask anything or for any money from you to get access to their links. So if XDA admins don't have a problem with it why should anyone else. After all it only takes about 60 second more out of your day.
"Hell I don't know"
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+1 completely agree.
i got no beef with signing up for something to download any of these roms. my phone is nothing without these devs, and i will get the roms from wherever they want to post them. if i had the time to sit down and tweek a rom to the way i like it i would but i dont. taking the extra 2 minutes to signup for another site is pretty ok with me
noirelion said:
Because of proprietary registration requirement featured roms on this page cannot be downloaded by XDA members. Why is this being allowed?
Mik and this SAc s Kingdom rom and some others cant be downloaded.
Has money changed hands? what is the deal?
Why are these roms that we can't get unless we register on thier crappy pages- featured on XDA Android Rom page? WTF?
Hit thanks if you agree with me...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you want the ROM take a couple of seconds and sign up for free on the developers site. Simple as that. Just be lucky they link there site here for us to get the ROM in the first place.
Both rom are my favorites!!
But never complain about how to download it..
Dont be lazy..
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App
Oh gee- we get to look around on each new proprietary website for 15 minutes to sign up for something we dont want! The way it was was fine- these people are making XDA irrelevant. I don't want XDA to become irrelevant.
I want it the way it was and these people need to change their practices. XDA people need to get their head out of their asses.
noirelion said:
Asking why XDA allows this isnt a Q and A- these lames are taking up space that actual developers offering real roms can use.
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Talk about taking up space. If your not happy here then feel free to move some place else. I've never had any issues downloading a rom on this site, 99% of the time I don't even have to go to the developers site to download the rom. They are doing this for us for free and your whinning about how to get the ROM?
Holly crap.. i was just thinking this today..
I want to download sacs new sense 3.0 rom but i have to register.. anyone have a mirror or straight link to his rom..
Great job to them for making this rom but cmon..
Haven't used a mik rom or any rom I need to sign up somewhere else.
wickedskills said:
If you want the ROM take a couple of seconds and sign up for free on the developers site. Simple as that. Just be lucky they link there site here for us to get the ROM in the first place.
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Won't use a rom I have to sign up elsewhere to get it. XDA set up a perfectly reasonable system that worked JUST fine. We don't need 50 websites to sign up for- to get roms. All we need was XDA. This is a game changer.
I understand the sychophants and scenies will do what ever they are told. But XDa had it right and these people are messing up a good thing- tryna make it their thing. And I call bull****!.
when someone who built the rom and spent HOURS to do and YOUR complaining because he wants you to become a member on his site (WHICH IS FREE) where you can probably find more cool stuff about the rom you want. stop being lazy and selfish. #bad.
Oh no! Something different than i'm used to! The only response is rage!
Go elsewhere? Thats what I'm trying NOT to do
wickedskills said:
Talk about taking up space. If your not happy here then feel free to move some place else. I've never had any issues downloading a rom on this site, 99% of the time I don't even have to go to the developers site to download the rom. They are doing this for us for free and your whinning about how to get the ROM?
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I like XDA just as it is. I DONT want to go ELSEWHERE: to someone elses website to sign up for their stuff. I want to stay at XDA in a system that worked just fine.
Kinda toolish to tell me to leave XDA "if I'm not happy"... thats kinda weird logic- I want to stay on XDA- not leave it to go to proprietary websites. You need to take your pills.
noirelion said:
I like XDA just as it is. I DONT want to go ELSEWHERE: to someone elses website to sign up for their stuff. I want to stay at XDA in a system that worked just fine.
Kinda toolish to tell me to leave XDA "if I'm not happy"... thats kinda weird logic- I want to stay on XDA- not leave it to go to proprietary websites. You need to take your pills.
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Your whinning!
Or you could just do what I do and not use the Rom. If they want to link to their hard earned site for their hard earned credit, let them. I don't want to register, I don't download, and I let everyone else be happy and merry and move on with their lives.
I think I want XDA to stay like it was and not become merely a quick cover page for 50 proprietary websites. I don't want to get in a troll/flame war with some nobody. I just want up and down links to roms(like its been). And i'm saying that if your frauding XDA just to post web page links for your own stuff- its you who need to "go elsewhere".
Please read the Forum Rules:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/announcement.php?f=642
11. Don’t post with the intention of selling something.
Don’t use XDA to advertise your product or service. Proprietors of for-pay products or services, may use XDA to get feedback, provide beta access, or a free version of their product for XDA users and offer support, but not to post with the intention of selling. This includes promoting sites similar/substantially similar to XDA-Developers.com.
Do not post press releases, announcements, links to trial software, or commercial services. unless you’re posting an exclusive release for XDA-Developers.com.
Encouraging members to participate in forum activities on other phone related sites is prohibited.
Off-site downloads are permitted if the site is non-commercial and does not require registration.
Off-site downloads from sites requiring registration are NOT encouraged but may be permitted if the following conditions are met:
A) the site belongs to a member of XDA-Developers with at least 1500 posts and 2 years membership who actively maintains XDA-Developers' support thread(s) / posts, related to the download,
B) the site is a relatively small personal website without commercial advertising/links (i.e. not a competitor forum-based site with purposes and aims similar to those of XDA-Developers.com.)
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Given your recent posts in aamikam's MikRoms thread, prior to this thread, one can logically presume you are complaining about aamikam's posts.
aamikam has just over 2600 posts, joined in October 2008, and actively maintains a thread related to the MikRom download.
He is following the rules. YOU however, have disregarded them...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=695878
I just went to the Samsung site looking for their Customer Forums where could report some bugs in their latest OTA and suggest some improvements.
THERE ARE NONE.
Seriously, a multi-billion dollar company with NO way for their customers to interact, get problems solved or make suggestions. Nothing. It is inconceivable to me that in the year 2012 a company the size of Samsung would be in the stone ages of customer interaction.
Want to know how they get customer feedback? You log on and post a review of the product. That's it! No interaction, no feedback, no idea if anyone even saw what you wrote - you just post a review and pray.
Yeah you can go to Samsung's Facebook page and post something on their wall but that's not a proper forum.
http://www.facebook.com/samsungsupport
I am honestly dumbfounded at this revelation.
They do it on social media. In a pretty big way too.
Surely, in your research of the GN 10.1, you found that out - I did. They do have a question and answer area.
A "rant" is neither productive nor helpful. They don't have forums. Period.
BarryH_GEG said:
They do it on social media. In a pretty big way too.
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Social media is a pathetic replacement for an actual Forum. Lol, can you imagine xda-developers as a Facebook page?
Massive fail Samsung. It's clear from some of the changes they made in the last OTA that they aren't listening to the users.
toenail_flicker said:
A "rant" is neither productive nor helpful. They don't have forums. Period.
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That's probably why they don't have forums. Not enough people ranting. You'll have to forgive me. I didn't research whether Samsung had customer forums. I just assumed they weren't living in 1960.
I am endeavoring to report some bugs on their Facebook page. I have no idea if anyone else has already reported these or if there is follow-up as their "forum" has no apparent structure. Will report back if I get any feedback.
unfortunately yes.
I've been looking for its own forums few years back, and find NONE. :cyclops:
They rather use a facebook page, which we don't know the page is being maintained by who.
But, if you need a fast response, you can try their website, there's a LIVECHAT down there.
Facebook is really a pathetic idea to make it as the main forum of such a big company (in my opinion).
If facebook is being used as an additional media, then yes, it's a good idea.
Time for Mr. Peabody's WABAC Machine
For support: Not a forum and not Facebook.
Samsung needs a Web and Android App accessible Support database.
From 1979 to 2002 I was an IBM Mainframe Systems Programmer at UF in Gainesville Florida, then at the School Board of Alachua County Florida.
I watched large companies like IBM and CA move into the web era with their Support. I moved with them from phone calls and mailing fix tapes to Customer Searchable Databases with user entry for new issues, and with Downloadable Fixes for resolved issues.
Of course, way back then issues for my organization affected 10s of thousands of people where resolving an issue meant dealing with only one person in our organization.
Moving forward to today, we've got 10s of thousands of people and many, many more who all need their individual fixes. Very time consuming compared to dealing with one person.
This is one reason why more and more OTA forced SW updating is happening and why the big companies are pushing cloud computing. Such as Google evolving the Chrome platform; Adobe offering Creative Cloud; and VMWare and IBM competing for hosting Enterprise virtual computers.
Aloha.. Al :highfive:
Is it just me or do 80% of their Facebook Support moderators look like complete burnouts?
If a Forum is too hard for them how about a simple Suggestion Box where users can report bugs directly to the Design Team?
My faith in their meeting future needs with OTA's is greatly diminished. Hopefully they will surprise me.
Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk 2
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=31024209&postcount=24
You might get more feed back by directing your rants here. :cyclops:
tonyz3 said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=31024209&postcount=24
You might get more feed back by directing your rants here. :cyclops:
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tonyz3,
I think you should put in an application to work for the Samsung Design Team, you seem like their kind of guy. :cyclops:
They used to have customer Forum. I was a member. They were so heavily censored, that you could say virtually nothing negative.
When the Galaxy S was having GPS issues, a class action suit was initiated about the GPS problem. I posted this fact and my post was edited to eliminate the sentence stating that. My post appeared but the words "Class Action Lawsuit" magically disappeared!
Moderators would actually cut pieces out of your posts before they would appear.
I then tried to send a private message to another forum member about the censorship and they censored and blocked the private messages as well and then sent me a message saying any more communications of that type would get me banned.
I then posted a second time to the main forum complaining that they were censoring negative posts and was in fact banned from the forum. So there isn't much of a point to a Forum where you aren't alowed to communicate.
So perhaps they just decided to institute the ultimate form of censorship and eliminate the forum altogether.
Digital Man said:
They used to have customer Forum. I was a member. They were so heavily censored, that you could say virtually nothing negative.
When the Galaxy S was having GPS issues, a class action suit was initiated about the GPS problem. I posted this fact and my post was edited to eliminate the sentence stating that. My post appeared but the words "Class Action Lawsuit" magically disappeared!
Moderators would actually cut pieces out of your posts before they would appear.
I then tried to send a private message to another forum member about the censorship and they censored and blocked the private messages as well and then sent me a message saying any more communications of that type would get me banned.
I then posted a second time to the main forum complaining that they were censoring negative posts and was in fact banned from the forum. So there isn't much of a point to a Forum where you aren't alowed to communicate.
So perhaps they just decided to institute the ultimate form of censorship and eliminate the forum altogether.
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Oh well, they make nice tablets and if we get the same software as the Note II we will all be happy campers.
mitchellvii said:
Oh well, they make nice tablets and if we get the same software as the Note II we will all be happy campers.
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+1
:highfive: