Ice Cream Sandwich beta Rom ! - Xperia Play General

Check it out ! ICS is just round the corner.
Can't wait
I just hope they change the lock screen though.
http://developer.sonymobile.com/wp/...e-for-unlocked-2011-xperia-smartphone-models/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJbDl8aikUk&feature=player_embedded

again only neo V, arc S and ray.... why not play???

IE-coRe said:
again only neo V, arc S and ray.... why not play???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i tried talking to an agent on the Sony site... he has no clue he literally told me we don't know that information useless support tbh.

Well if that is the new ics I'm very disappointed it just looks like gingerbread to me it looks nothing like ice cream sandwich:-( nothing in the notification bar what's going on Sony give us full ice cream sandwich not with things missing!!
Sent from my R800i using Tapatalk

Plus there is no mention of the play phone I'm so frustrated with sony I think they rushed this phone, things like no bloody memory on a gaming phone come on wtf Sony "yeh we'll bring a gaming device but put 300 mb on it! Wth. No games like they said, if it wasn't for all these hard working 3rd party devs this phone would be dead! Sony this phone could off been great if u put some time n effort n worked properly on it! Frustrated that's all sick of feeling ripped off. :-(
Sent from my R800i using Tapatalk

The Settings menu looks like the ICS menu, but with all of the stuff Sony edits on Android, it still looks like the same old thing. Lame.

maccboy2010 said:
Plus there is no mention of the play phone I'm so frustrated with sony I think they rushed this phone, things like no bloody memory on a gaming phone come on wtf Sony "yeh we'll bring a gaming device but put 300 mb on it! Wth. No games like they said, if it wasn't for all these hard working 3rd party devs this phone would be dead! Sony this phone could off been great if u put some time n effort n worked properly on it! Frustrated that's all sick of feeling ripped off. :-(
Sent from my R800i using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What are you talking about? The Xperia Play will get ICS as well !

I'll believe it when it Sony say it Sony seem to always leave experia play out of there wordings they always say arc and all the others but never the play. They say all 2011 models I no but y not come out wigh a full list of every phone? :-D
Sent from my R800i using Tapatalk

Given the play is getting ics a month later you'd assume the beta would be a month behind too would you not?
Sent from my R800i using Tapatalk

Don't u think that looks like. Moded gingerbread I think I'll stay with cyangen mod or the other ics.
Sent from my R800i using Tapatalk

Why Sony, Why? If it's not broke don't fix it. The stock ICS is the best interface for any android device, if sony take anymore things away it we might as well put leave gingerbread on our phones.
They've basically taken all the Xperia S' UI and ported it to the ICS roms, i really hope they don't fudge this up for the play, in fact they might just leave the play on gingerbread because they don't seem to like releasing stuff for it.

Guys, if you dont like the home launcher, u can use trebuchet or nova, simple
Sent from my R800i using XDA App

As long as the Andreno driver update is included I'll be happy

will8578 said:
Guys, if you dont like the home launcher, u can use trebuchet or nova, simple
Sent from my R800i using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Will that's the point we shouldn't have to use another launcher, from that video that isn't ics there's nothing ics about it. I really hope Sony rethinks this one because it looks like a half arse try when u have 3rd party devs doing better part time!,
Sent from my R800i using Tapatalk

maccboy2010 said:
Will that's the point we shouldn't have to use another launcher, from that video that isn't ics there's nothing ics about it. I really hope Sony rethinks this one because it looks like a half arse try when u have 3rd party devs doing better part time!,
Sent from my R800i using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have to expect this with manufacturers, they all do it. If you want a vanilla Android experience get a Nexus

Has anyone ever considered that maybe sony bought the sexplay to kill it?

Michealtbh said:
You have to expect this with manufacturers, they all do it. If you want a vanilla Android experience get a Nexus
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haha I don't want nexus I'll think when the update comes through ill stay on gingerbread till cm or miui :-D
Sent from my R800i using Tapatalk

And y the hell have Sony put slide to lock on that will definitely need to be changed won't it??
Sent from my R800i using Tapatalk

I agree with most of you saying that the Xperia Play has been left out but i'm sure that it's been advertised pretty well ? and even then it doesn't manage to get it self known.
I am dissapointed cause this is a playstation certified smartphone with actual physical buttons and they should have done better with it.

As soon as I flash this rom officially from Sony I'm going to use the AOSP theme, Xperia S theme really is ugly.

Related

Good news:google will make us 2.2 not sony

http://www.tcmagazine.com/tcm/news/...-and-carriers-adopt-android-update-guidelines
Google will help sony to update phones that are not on higher platform but they support it
Sent from my X8 using XDA Premium App
Really cool! So if Google makes it, I guess it'll be more like AOSP that SE's customized FW...
Blagus said:
Really cool! So if Google makes it, I guess it'll be more like AOSP that SE's customized FW...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it wil be but there are not sure will be older devices in it
Somewhere writes new somewhere old to.
Sent from my X8 using XDA Premium App
haa.. haa... Google will update it?? interesting.. how S.E will respone it...??? may be S.E will say "no.. Mr.Google, if you update X8 who will buy our w8..?"
evilteater said:
haa.. haa... Google will update it?? interesting.. how S.E will respone it...??? may be S.E will say "no.. Mr.Google, if you update X8 who will buy our w8..?"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sony is on the list so he need
Sent from my X8 using XDA Premium App
seems like someone can't really understand what is he reading. we're not getting the update, and it's not about google giving update, it's about google forcing these companies to update their phones. but only NEW PHONES (read that text carefully, it's written down there), phones that have been just released, and phones that will be released in future. it's not working backwards, older phones ain't getting upgrades. sorry to turn your dreams into a dust. just a little advice - read the whole text, not just the heading, before you start a thread like this - you made ppl excited for no reason. now i have to make their joy go away
wujekandrzej said:
seems like someone can't really understand what is he reading. we're not getting the update, and it's not about google giving update, it's about google forcing these companies to update their phones. but only NEW PHONES (read that text carefully, it's written down there), phones that have been just released, and phones that will be released in future. it's not working backwards, older phones ain't getting upgrades. sorry to turn your dreams into a dust. just a little advice - read the whole text, not just the heading, before you start a thread like this - you made ppl excited for no reason. now i have to make their joy go away
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 it also mentioned that they will get updates if hardware is capable, se have already said x8 wont be updated due to insufficient hardware on x8 personally I don't agree but hey what se says goes regarding hardware they manufactured. It really is a shame.
Thank God for racht, ponnovan, jerpela, dioxanh etc etc they make x8 worth buying XD
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furrabbit.nh said:
+1 it also mentioned that they will get updates if hardware is capable, se have already said x8 wont be updated due to insufficient hardware on x8 personally I don't agree but hey what se says goes regarding hardware they manufactured. It really is a shame.
Thank God for racht, ponnovan, jerpela, dioxanh etc etc they make x8 worth buying XD
Sent from my X8 using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Somewhere else writes old phones too and dont forget that sony thinks it will slow diwn our phones not that is hardware not supported and that does not make sense because 2.2 is lighter rom than 2.1
Sent from my X8 using XDA Premium App
then "somewhere else" is wrong. and of course, se is talking bull****, but that has nothing to do with it.
anyway, i'm happy with custom roms from our devs, so it's fine.
wujekandrzej said:
then "somewhere else" is wrong. and of course, se is talking bull****, but that has nothing to do with it.
anyway, i'm happy with custom roms from our devs, so it's fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would always pick cm roms over the stock roms
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as-mario said:
Somewhere else writes old phones too and dont forget that sony thinks it will slow diwn our phones not that is hardware not supported and that does not make sense because 2.2 is lighter rom than 2.1
Sent from my X8 using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Like I said before se have said many times before x8 will not get froyo EVER at the end of the day not us not Google not anyone can make se update x8 to newer versions of android deal with it. X8 is still a great phone with minicm etc etc
Sent from my X8 using XDA Premium App
come on all send email to google and others
if we can't update our phone can undo and denigrate the f**ckin SE instead ;
I'm happy with custom roms, cuz everything works fine. We don't need SE to update it
X8 is excellent phone.
And, to substantiate my statement as soon as our devs crack bootloader and fully working Gingerbread is made this phone will get even better. Worth waitng.
Times are tough and a lot of us just can't affort better phone.
P.S.: @as-mario you're troller... read twice before you post... think before you blink!
I have already sent several messages to SE Brazil and the answer is always the same:
"The Sony Ericsson XPERIA X8 will not be updated because it does not meet the requisites of Android 2.3" - or nearly so, but always the same direction of response -> A short NO!
Perhaps with support from Google the story will change, because only the X10 received the upgrade to 2.3 from Sony Ericsson and many users still use their custom ROMS ...
__________________________________________
I bought my E15a because here in Brazil, it is Android and powerful in its price range ...
I wanted to install a custom ROM on my X8, but this news will motivate me to wait for the update .... hehe!
Greetings from Brazil!
Salo-S said:
I wanted to install a custom ROM on my X8, but this news will motivate me to wait for the update .... hehe!
Greetings from Brazil!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
don't hold your breath...
I think we don't even need a SE stock-ROM. Our devs are doing great work!!!
furrabbit.nh said:
I would always pick cm roms over the stock roms
Sent from my X8 using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Me too....few bugs in many cases, but smoothless !
We should sent emails to GooGle android center about our problem. Google can force SE to update our phone. We can make petition to google. We can make petition at least for unlocking bootloader.
Who don't think it's a great idea?
Sent from my Arc-X8 using Tapatalk
The news is probably related to new phones.
hope not only newer phone will supported the update

[HELP!] Purchasing New Phone

Its time to purchase a new phone and i am looking at the Samsung Galaxy SII. Can someone please outline whats good/bad about the device and how the development is going? I can see that there is a lot of stock ROMs avaliable for it but will there be ROMs like CM7 and Sense, as it will take a while to port ROMs to its processor as it has to be done from scratch
I'd really recommend you to wait for a bit
Wait for the google Phone by Motorola
OR I'd say go for a ARC
What do u want in a phone ?
Best to go and ask people in galaxy s forum? Afterall they do own the phone.
Sent from my X10i using XDA Premium App
spaarc said:
I'd really recommend you to wait for a bit
Wait for the google Phone by Motorola
OR I'd say go for a ARC
What do u want in a phone ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mainly speed and developers
paolo599 said:
Mainly speed and developers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd say go for a HTC device then
They have many many devs
They have the latest Specs and I mean "fast"
Don't go for Samsung
sgs2 is awesome.... The screen is vivid, it's dual core so it will be more future proof and because it is the biggest selling android phone of all time there will be tons of development. Also samsung is very well known to support development and custom roms, hiring the cyanogen mod developer, etc...
do not get an arc, there have been a lot of problems with the build, the housing has been cracking for a big number of people who bought them.
What about the htc sensation.
Kieron
Sent from my X10 using xda premium
The new arc s? I'd stick to sony Ericsson due to the fact that rooting and flashing roms/kernel is not a pain in the ass like HTC 's devices or samsung lol
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shahkam said:
The new arc s? I'd stick to sony Ericsson due to the fact that rooting and flashing roms/kernel is not a pain in the ass like HTC 's devices or samsung lol
Sent from my X10i using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What I have a HTC now, unless you're borderline retarded its just as simple lol..
Flash in recovery, wow that's tough haha
scoobysnacks said:
What I have a HTC now, unless you're borderline retarded its just as simple lol..
Flash in recovery, wow that's tough haha
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't take it wrong buddy but when i go to the htc forums i always get confused like hboot fastboot bootloader s-off blablabla i dont even know what is that but looks like a pain in the ass the goldcard thingy the software you need to root ur phone it is like 30 steps ? Compared to the x10 i think its harder :/
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shahkam said:
Don't take it wrong buddy but when i go to the htc forums i always get confused like hboot fastboot bootloader s-off blablabla i dont even know what is that but looks like a pain in the ass the goldcard thingy the software you need to root ur phone it is like 30 steps ? Compared to the x10 i think its harder :/
Sent from my X10i using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hahah I did it in like 2 minutes, it was no harder than flashtool...
There is one program that s-off and roots your device, just like flashtool.
The reason x10 is so easy is because we don't have an unlocked bootloader, so we use flashtool for everything.
On htc phones you can flash full custom roms which include kernel, and you can also flash different radios.
It is literally no more difficult, and much better imo. Say if you break your usb port, you aren't screwed like you are with an x10.
I learned everything in about 5 minutes, read one small tutorial.
scoobysnacks said:
sgs2 is awesome.... The screen is vivid, it's dual core so it will be more future proof and because it is the biggest selling android phone of all time there will be tons of development. Also samsung is very well known to support development and custom roms, hiring the cyanogen mod developer, etc...
do not get an arc, there have been a lot of problems with the build, the housing has been cracking for a big number of people who bought them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What he said.....or just wait a bit for newer. But the sgs2 is certainly not a bad choice.
I'm probably going to get a sgs2 because I've had my vibrant for the longest time I like the super amoled screen but I wish it was bigger
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Probably the most important thing I want in a phone is support from developers. Xperia Arc doesn't have alot of devs while SGS2 is flooding with devs and custom roms
Sent from my X10 using XDA App
Just wait a bit longer and get the google nexus prime
Sent from my X10 using XDA App
I would wait the SGS2 is not that much faster then x10 on latest custom.. Screen is no higher res etc either .. Rather than lock into what is really a minor upgrade for 18 months wait for true decent upgrade
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Electron2k said:
I would wait the SGS2 is not that much faster then x10 on latest custom.. Screen is no higher res etc either .. Rather than lock into what is really a minor upgrade for 18 months wait for true decent upgrade
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HAHAHAHA what??!?
Lol....
my new HTC is ten times faster than x10 and sgs2 destroys it.
Be serious lol
Electron2k said:
I would wait the SGS2 is not that much faster then x10 on latest custom.. Screen is no higher res etc either .. Rather than lock into what is really a minor upgrade for 18 months wait for true decent upgrade
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol
You are a funny man.
i suggest you wait and see the upcoming new releases of phones by other brands. Samsung Galaxy SII seems quite uninteresting. i feel x10 could do better in general. Samsung is not on 'my-favourite-brands' list. but, i have to admit Samsung Galaxy SII is not so bad, better than average smartphones, i believe.
Electron2k said:
I would wait the SGS2 is not that much faster then x10 on latest custom.. Screen is no higher res etc either .. Rather than lock into what is really a minor upgrade for 18 months wait for true decent upgrade
You must be drunk if you think the galaxy s2 is a minor upgrade from the x10. If that's so then the arc is not even an upgrade just a tweak.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
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Xperia Arc & Neo ICS Updates released today

Just found this and wanted to share.
Arc & Neo ICS updates out today.
http://www.xperiablog.net/2012/05/2...eo-android-4-0-ics-updates-start-rolling-out/
On a side note I thought I read somewhere that the Arc is a common ROM to be ported to Xperia PLAY.....this true?
Anyway just sharing.
Yes, it is true.
Sent from my R800x using XDA
Wohoo, this sounds promising, it sounds like my first try to port a ROM ever here, since I really want a ICS-ROM for Xperia Play, but only if the android version is 4.0.4 then, otherwise, it will not get better And after that I will try to get everything to work as well
it seems that the latest Xperia Pro ICS firmware has been leaked!
The sony devs better pray that it runs like crap on our phones because I cant imagine them looking worse than they do right now
If devs port this rom to the Play, get TouchPads working with all the touchpad games and I'll retract every ICS is bad for the Play comment I've made recently
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CTU_Loscombe said:
If devs port this rom to the Play, get TouchPads working with all the touchpad games and I'll retract every ICS is bad for the Play comment I've made recently
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which is.... pretty much impossible. The dev's need to update the games.
Sent from my R800x using XDA
But we'll need a kernel won't we?
Sent from my Xperia™ PLAY using TapatalkHD
If it wasn't for the custom roms, I would feel like crap for buying this phone (Xperia Play). At least, there are some decent roms out there.
Anyway, it is a shame that Sony hasn't released, at least, the sources, or have they?
savage24x said:
Which is.... pretty much impossible. The dev's need to update the games.
Sent from my R800x using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know I'm just staying on the Gingerbread side of the fence. Screw ICS. We dont need it
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CTU_Loscombe said:
I know I'm just staying on the Gingerbread side of the fence. Screw ICS. We dont need it
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ICS is great for us who pretty much just use the pad for emulators. Emulators work fine in ICS, and you get all the niceties (sadly the rotation animation is way up there on my list).
I could care less if Sony released an update or not, I'm still able to get a damn fine ICS experience with the aokp rom.
CTU_Loscombe said:
I know I'm just staying on the Gingerbread side of the fence. Screw ICS. GSM users dont need it
Sent from my R800i using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fixed.
CDMA users definitely need something.

you know what grinds my gears?... the xperia E!

I am a little upset that the xperia E comes with official Android 4.1 JB having less specs then the xperia play and they get jellybean! not ICS straight to jellybean! both specs are identical but the xperia E has a lower Gpu and internal memory AND STILL! I understand that sony said that they wanted to leave this phone as a gaming phone but at least make it a optional update on your own risk or something
xdarkmario said:
I am a little upset that the xperia E comes with official Android 4.1 JB having less specs then the xperia play and they get jellybean! not ICS straight to jellybean! both specs are identical but the xperia E has a lower Gpu and internal memory AND STILL! I understand that sony said that they wanted to leave this phone as a gaming phone but at least make it a optional update on your own risk or something
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah it sucks that we dont get it and we didnt even get ics (i dont count the beta because of all its bugs) but there was a rumored release for it a while ago could this be it? :sly:
Sent from my Xperia Play (r800x)
I think the problem is even if Sony released JB for our phone game development would still be slowing down like it has been lately. Plus all the older XPO releases like asphalt 6 and star battalion wouldn't work. Not like a lot of people play those. I still do. Is it possible to utilize some aspects of the xperia e's firmware?
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ozzmanj1 said:
I think the problem is even if Sony released JB for our phone game development would still be slowing down like it has been lately. Plus all the older XPO releases like asphalt 6 and star battalion wouldn't work. Not like a lot of people play those. I still do. Is it possible to utilize some aspects of the xperia e's firmware?
Sent from my R800at using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thats why i say at your own risk, for people who might not want to game in the xperia play
Wouldn't be the first time a weaker phone got a newer FW than Xperia Play... we've already established that the reason Xperia Play didn't get ICS/JB was because it would throw the software compatibility way off.
If you want a good example of how bad it would've been, just look at all Evo V owners who are in an absolute fury because the vast majority of 3D games were made to operate under 2.3. The way I see it, Sony did the smart thing by opting for a more stable ecosystem.
The thing is that a lot of app developers are abandoning gb, and making apps for 4.0+, even Google them self, example, chrome browser a great browser but not for gb.
I'd even settle for a decent official ics from Sony, I mean the developers here are doing a better job than them
sent from my R800z using XDA premium
The Xperia Play has a Scorpion S2 CPU, it's old. The Xperia E is a Cortex A5. Scorpion might be faster in raw flops but the A5 has more features. Snapdragon is quite poor by today's standards and the Xperia E will probably beat it in many ways.
xdarkmario said:
The thing is that a lot of app developers are abandoning gb, and making apps for 4.0+, even Google them self, example, chrome browser a great browser but not for gb.
I'd even settle for a decent official ics from Sony, I mean the developers here are doing a better job than them
sent from my R800z using XDA premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They don't do it on purpose. 2.x API just doesn't support anywhere near as much as 3.0+.
CosmicDan said:
The Xperia Play has a Scorpion S2 CPU, it's old. The Xperia E is a Cortex A5. Scorpion might be faster in raw flops but the A5 has more features. Snapdragon is quite poor by today's standards and the Xperia E will probably beat it in many ways.
They don't do it on purpose. 2.x API just doesn't support anywhere near as much as 3.0+.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey dan!
and i see what you mean by the differences, i seen some benchmarks
I am going to admit many people know more about the inner workings of hardware. But I am sure that with the xperia e's 320x240 resolution also helps in benchmarks as it's not having to push as much in terms of resolution. Although I know that is only one aspect of a bigger picture.
Sent from my R800at using xda premium
My friend has an Xperia J which is running on stock ICS and I can tell you it is laggy as hell, my phone with Krisdee's Hybrid ROM is much more stable. I know this has nothing to do with the Xperia E but Xperia J has similar hardware as our Xperia Play. Maybe he has a faulty device, I don't know.
Us modders have done a great job in making ics work well on Xperia play
Sent from my R800z using xda premium
Mocket said:
My friend has an Xperia J which is running on stock ICS and I can tell you it is laggy as hell, my phone with Krisdee's Hybrid ROM is much more stable. I know this has nothing to do with the Xperia E but Xperia J has similar hardware as our Xperia Play. Maybe he has a faulty device, I don't know.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My friend also has xperia j and yeah, it is laggy
Sent from my own planet using ion cannon
Haha off topic but I love how you titled that
Sent from my Sony Ericsson xperia play™ (R800x) running slimbean 3.0 using Tapatalk 2™
crazymonkey05 said:
Haha off topic but I love how you titled that
Sent from my Sony Ericsson xperia play™ (R800x) running slimbean 3.0 using Tapatalk 2™
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Family Guy.......?
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ozzmanj1 said:
Family Guy.......?
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea lol
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xdarkmario said:
Yea lol
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Before I bring it back on topic. Here's a test xdarkmario. What FG moment has this line.
"Knuckle babies"
Okay back on topic of xperia e
Sent from my R800at using xda premium
ozzmanj1 said:
Before I bring it back on topic. Here's a test xdarkmario. What FG moment has this line.
"Knuckle babies"
Okay back on topic of xperia e
Sent from my R800at using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hmmm.... not sure
xdarkmario said:
hmmm.... not sure
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its one Peters rants when he is at the movie store and Tom Tucker walks in asking for 18+ videos and the clerk tells him they don't allow 18+ movies. Peter goes off on a rant about 18+ videos and "fire off some knuckle babies"
Okay..back to topic.
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Ahh lol just got it lol
Sent from my SGH-T959V using xda premium
We all know what is the real problem.... we don't have an option for buying an xperia play 2 sony failed the smartphone gamming community...
Sent from my R800i using xda app-developers app

Even xperia j now have jb update

My girlfriend get back from work and "i have jb update yeaey" and i dont have any words lol she have also galaxy 4 but that was sayed to only make me mad so Just wanna share my sadness and anger as well on sony ones again!"thank you" again sony! I am personally hate you for dump our best gaming phone to the trash!
Sent from my R800i using xda app-developers app
The phone was not dumped for the heck of it. Sony dumped it as majority of the games designed for it wouldn't work well on the play. Plus ICS was a ram hog. Thus games ran poorly or were not updated by the devs to run better.
Plus our play is two and a half years old. No phone manufacturer is going to spend the resources to update a phone most people would have upgraded from.
Sent from my R800at using xda premium
masteril said:
My girlfriend get back from work and "i have jb update yeaey" and i dont have any words lol she have also galaxy 4 but that was sayed to only make me mad so Just wanna share my sadness and anger as well on sony ones again!"thank you" again sony! I am personally hate you for dump our best gaming phone to the trash!
Sent from my R800i using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But you see how Xperia J works with JB? Lags,lags everywhere
There has been many discussions about this device not getting Jellybean all the way back to when Jellybean was first released even ICS. The simple matter of the fact is this device will never get official ICS or JB. There is plenty of information online as to why. These threads usually become off Topic threads flaming the manufacturer, so for this reason..
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