Related
The thought popped up in my head this morning. I remembered Eugene, the developer of the Macnut ROM, who no longer supported XDA. Then another dev, jellette, that quit for reasons I can't quite understand. Who's to blame for these developers quitting the scene, or only providing ROMs on other sites?
I'm a 16 year old high school student in San Francisco. I've been lurking the forums ever since I got my Vibrant and my friend directed me here. I'm not at all new to hacks like these, I've been participating in communities and actions like these since I was 12. I never found a reason to become closely connected within this community, though. It's not a small group, it's a much larger one, and I don't have any place to fit in. This is one of my first posts, and it's one that I feel I need to share with the community: my thoughts and beliefs on the whole situation about devs that no longer support XDA or flat out quit.
Let's cover some ground first:
These devs are not paid. They make these ROMs, custom kernels, and other mods in their spare time. The only money they make off these ROMs comes from donations, and some devs don't ask for donations anyway.
The users are not paying for this work. The users don't need to give feedback, however they are permitted and allowed to comment, criticize, or help the developers in any way.
The trade made here is obviously unfair: give nothing, get something. In many cases, get a great piece of work for your phone that will make it blazing fast and give it features and functionality unheard of to other users of the same phone. The devs are ok with this though, as they freely release their work without a price tag.
However, there are some things devs are not ok with. I can't speak for each and every single developer, but having once done development in my own time as well, I can say the one thing that really aggravates all developers, and all people even, is when your work goes unnoticed, or worse yet, gets disrespected. When some bombarding, ignorant user comes along and rips apart your hard work, what are you to do? "This ROM is utterly horrible, you should've put more work into it before releasing this paperweight." Maybe a bit over the top, but it gets the point across, and it's from this that a developer will most likely quit XDA as he sees fit.
So what can we say about the users, the freeloaders? Some decency is expected of all of us, basically. That's the lesson every user should know: respect those that give you what you get. They're not robots that work endlessly with nothing better to do. These are people, hard working men and women who spend hours on end making software for you. Give them your respect. Constructive criticism is nice, but never go so far as to demote them as a person. If you want their respect, you must give them respect. Make them feel welcome and they will continue to work for the entire community. It's simple, human nature.
As for developers, are they in the right place to quit under these grounds? There is no set ground for quitting. Each person sees fit at what time he or she should quit working, in any case: as a dev, as an employee, as anyone. People need to know their limits, and they do know their limits. As a free working developer, they have a lot more liberty in deciding when they want to stop working for the community. Even someone who didn't feel accused or demoted could leave for no reason and it wouldn't affect them as much as if they had left their full-time paying job. This is not a source of revenue, it's not a source of anything, in fact.
One thing devs should know, and this is coming straight from me, is that as someone who releases work on the forums, your name will be known, and it's wise that you build a public image for yourself. Quitting without reason, without a post to describe your feelings, to express concerns or thoughts on the community or whatever else you'd like to mention, does not help build a good public image. You are at liberty to do as you please, that's your free choice, but people will judge you based on your actions. Throwing yourself into a position as such, as a chef, comes with more than just giving out work. It comes with the comments users will give you. It's good to be able to politically conduct yourself, to create a good public image, which will ultimately help you avoid the negative comments the public makes.
In conclusion:
Users: Be respectful, have some common decency. This is for all of us, not just those who don't get it. It's a rule we should all know. Developers are humans, just like us. Respect them as such.
Developers/chefs: You are free to do what you like. Quit as you please, continue as you please, no one will stop you. It is, however, important to make a good public image. Not necessary, but important. Conduct yourself in a political manner, because us users see you as a strong force, not just as a person. Be ready to make a good public image.
I want to know your thoughts on this. I feel it's important that this ground is covered, and that we come to a general consensus on this. The more you know, the better off you are. The more we all know, the better off we will all be.
if only there were more users like you.
I'm tired of these little immature kids making these hardworking devs leave the forum.
xriderx66 said:
if only there were more users like you.
I'm tired of these little immature kids making these hardworking devs leave the forum.
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I second that...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
I also think that those developing roms need to understand that a lot of members are teenagers that do not what respect is. I myself am 30yrs old and I know that there are more members that are much younger and very childish. The devs need to not take it out on the entire forum. There are more members that appreciate their work than there are that do not.
I agree with you 100% in partucular regarding the users.
I came to this forum looking for support, trying to get the GPS working on my Vibrant.
Before I posted or did anything I read many threads and researched what it meant to use Odin and to root the phone and flash a rom and to recover from a problem before I even started anything. When I did I was fully aware that I and I alone, was responsible for anything that happened to my phone. I am continually amazed at how some people jump in, without a clue as to what they are doing, then seem to try to blame the developers for their problems. Then you have the group who complain about colors or a boot animation or a "missing" app on a rom they got for free. Simply amazing the entitlement people have over something that someone puts out there for them to try to improve their phone for free.
I can understand how the devs could get fed up with these sorts of actions. It can take a pretty thick skin to deal with all the stuff I see going on here.
It is like a preschool in here...just get used to it.
Life will go on, and someone will always be making roms--herds are pathetic, individuals are lost inside said herds. Keep your ears open and your mouth shut.
My $0.02
No one but the Dev can pull their ROMs and leave. We all take criticism in life. Some run, some brush it off.
ScooterG said:
No one but the Dev can pull their ROMs and leave. We all take criticism in life. Some run, some brush it off.
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I agree to a point, just if anyone runs off Master I'm forming a mob with pitchforks and torches...
I have plenty of respect for the few guys who make a few useful programs, and I don't think I've ever bashed a dev's work openly. But:
ScooterG said:
No one but the Dev can pull their ROMs and leave. We all take criticism in life. Some run, some brush it off.
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/Twerd.
Gotta give respect to receive, and some devs just think they are God's gift to Captain Taco. It's the Internet - no one gets respect on the 'tubes. Who gives a ****. The growing up really neds to happen on the part of most of these "I'm pouty b/c someone said something crass about some weekend work I did" "developers."
Drewstein said:
I agree to a point, just if anyone runs off Master I'm forming a mob with pitchforks and torches...
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McMaster should shrink his huge sig. It's a symptom of my point: get over your self importance. There are (good) forums on the 'Net that enforce a 5-line or 100px tall rule (vs. his 300px +).
Again, not bashing the work, just the attitude, as presented.
-bZj
Agree ...........great post clear concise and to the point. Funny, that a 16 year old can articulate the basics of good behavior that most in here do not practice. I do not blame a lot of the devs leaving, people rag on their work give nothing but complaints..... as if they have the skill (yeah right).People will eagerly wait 10 min in a Starbucks line, pay 5.00 for a coffee and never donate to the dev, XDA or anything........then complain when the custom rom they got for free doesn't work the WAY they like or want......... talk about selfish irony...........
Great post !! kevipapo1 (from a guy old enough to be your grandpa )
i agree with it. people need to remember that without dev. we would all be running stock
If master leaves I'll suicide.
I hope ur reading this, master
Unfortunately this is the interwebz and this is has its been in any android forum I've ventured through. As you are young, but yet seem to be fairly wise, I say to you "welcome to the world my friend!"
Very good post.
Most criticism is from lack of knowledge/education. People don't understand how difficult it is to develop a ROM. So they criticise what they don't understand because it inconveniences them.
However, I will disagree somewhat with developer criticism. Although, I don't agree with the way Master handled the situation, I can relate.
I believe it is very important for us to realize that ROM developers are not public figures. They have the freedom to stop and start as they please. Their passion is development, after all, not public relations.
Kudos OP. Excellent post!
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
I just want to say thanks to all Developers here at XDA. Without you and your ROMS or tweaks i wouldn't have the great phone i have today that i spent my hard earned money on, and to the immature people if something doesn't work right on a ROM insted of being an ASS!!! and saying how crappy it is say whats wrong and they will fix it they have for me.
Again thanks to all who have helped you don't even know me but you all are ready to help at anytime day or night.
GARY
I personally am 15 and have been in xda since 13
I appreciate the devs for all their work if it wasn't for them i would have killed myself with many frustrations of a stock vibrant
I hate that some are immature and that some get really irritating i understand that some are new but some just get on nerves.
I wish eugene came back because he was.one of the first devs here
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
This is a great post & I echo the op's sentiments. This forum and the devs that contribute to it are a phenomenal resource to all of us and deserve to be treated with respect as we all do. The real shame is that a 16 yr old realizes this more than most of us adults (some of which are in name only). I've been in these forums for only a short time and the amount of immaturity, cynacism and deconstructive criticism I have seen is truly apalling and frankly I'm suprised more haven't bailed. I guess the Golden Rule isn't important when you've got the anonymity of the internet.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
Lethal_NFS said:
I also think that those developing roms need to understand that a lot of members are teenagers that do not what respect is. I myself am 30yrs old and I know that there are more members that are much younger and very childish. The devs need to not take it out on the entire forum. There are more members that appreciate their work than there are that do not.
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Just because someone is childish does NOT mean that they are a child.
I've seen many adults that throw a tantrum worse than a 5 year old and many 5 year olds who act like they're going on 30.
Likely their age has nothing to do with it & its just a reflection of their random genetics and/or crappy parenting.
down8 said:
McMaster should shrink his huge sig. It's a symptom of my point: get over your self importance. There are (good) forums on the 'Net that enforce a 5-line or 100px tall rule (vs. his 300px +).
Again, not bashing the work, just the attitude, as presented.
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If its an issue, then xda should make a max image/sig size (like you mentioned other sites do). That simple.
Most of his signature tells you to search & read the XDA rules before posting, not really bad advice & since he has to answer questions from many people who don't do either, I can't really blame him.
It would be a LOT more aesthetically pleasing if it were text only, but since XDA allows it, I don't really have a problem with it.
Most of the devs have developed a bit of an attitude (I've seen it from Eugene, SomBionix, Master, and a few others) because of the crap they have to deal with & XDA not enforcing their own rules (this is supposed to have changed after the town hall meeting).
i have been on xda since 2005, left came back etc etc, i do minor edits and coding here and there for myself because i dont have the time like these other people. but honestly most people need to get over themselves. this is a strong community and will live on without you. that said this community has made some people millionaires and others just brats who want the limelight. the idea behind this site is to take the software into our own hands. its us vs. corporations. if devs want to leave cool stfu about it and go but keep in mind that unless you have a contributed to the community dont complain about someones work. devs know what come when you start producing products. its the same that companys deal with. most leave because they get their feelings hurt. its not like people are stalking you and breaking your kneecaps because angry birds wouldnt play during their lunchbreak. ignore the negative and stay or wine and leave. but this place or any place wont change. the more successful you get the harder your skin must be
About me and why it all got under my skin.
James / jellette / Heathen
39 year old, married, father of 3
<Edited out line, too personal>
I look around and see Darky, Doc, Jim, Eugene, TW and everyone else doing Gingerbread clones - and they aren't called "Copy Cat" - but when I do it I am. That makes a guy pretty darn mad.
I set out to do the latest Rom 100% from scratch without drawing from the work of any existing Rom specifically because of my relationship with TW. The takers out there have no idea how much work goes into doing that.
Here was and continues to be the process with PepperKake.
1. Download the JL5 Rom from samfirmware.com
2. Odin to get a feel for the new firmware.
3. Rip the files from factoryfs.rfs
4. Release the first flashable Odexed recovery safe JL5 by 30 minutes
5. Deodex the apps and jars - on this build I was unsuccessful deodexing swype and I used krylon360's swype and credited him for that.
6. Download the Nexus S dump
7. Pull all of the images I needed out of framework-res.apk and SystemUi.apk and the original bootanimation.zip and the icon out of every matching Gingerbread app
8. Carefully build the theme, re-mod the Gingerbread Launcher and create the faux crt shutdown sequence.
9. Rip the gps files from the Nexus S dump including permissions for gps and maps and restructure JL5 to call these files
10. Replace with 3E recovery, ensure the sdcard mounts, etc..
11. Flash and fix 219 times until it is 99% bug free and ready for an Alpha release.
As you can see, this is not a weekend cooked rom as put earlier in the thread.
I update my roms usually once a day until it is complete, I fulfill requests for kernel flash packs for the rom, etc..
I did get pretty angry and pulled my roms - I later replaced the most recent rom. I also set up my website as a backup, which is quickly becoming my primary release source. I will stay around xda though like it or not.
On those who have followed me to the new site in support: Thank you.
Finally, a very short word on TW.
I have nothing but respect for these guys. I learned everything from them.
And that is my word on this.
What is happening to this community?
What is with all the complaining ALL the time? This community is falling apart and we are all responsible for that. It seems all anyone ever does is complain about EVERY little tiny thing... We actually have it pretty good. Most of the Epic users will be on stock ROM's for the life of their phones. We have the opportunity to use, create and share something much better. The developers here at XDA are top notch and clearly do a better job then both Sprint and Samsung seem to be capable of...and yet we still find things to complain about and people to criticize. Why is that??
Speaking of the developers here, they put a HUGE amount of time and sometimes money (hosting ect) into providing all of us something truly useful and a big step up from what we would otherwise be stuck with. The attitude of "entitlement" needs to shift to something more like being "grateful" for what is provide here, FREE of charge.
Sure some developers have an off XDA website but so what. If it doesn't violate the rules then WHO CARES. Speaking for myself ONLY, I have very good reasons for redirecting (and I do believe I meet the requirements) traffic to my blog and they don't revolve around money. If you don't like the "inconvenience" of being redirected then don't use my ROM's. I can't please everyone..no matter how hard I may try. The way I personally view it is if I can find the time in my life to put this stuff together for anyone that wants to use it then you should be able to find the extra few minutes it takes click the link and follow it to my blog. That is the only thing I ask for all the time I freely give to this.
Quite frankly, we as the members of the XDA community need to reevaluate things. The developers DONATE their time (and some have precious little of it) and energy to HELP all of you... This whole "entitled" attitude and the "God complexes" some people have developed is a bit disturbing. I won't speak for anyone but myself but in my opinion, the sheer amount of time that goes into these releases completely eclipses the few minutes it takes to redirect to another site for a link (again as long as it doesn't violate the rules). Instead of complaining about EVERYTHING be GRATEFUL your not stuck on a stock ROM....
Many people can't even be bothered to click the Thanks button or read the directions.. I personally like helping you all out if my limited knowledge can be useful but I'm starting to become to frustrated to care anymore and I do really try to stay positive. All of this drama revolves around a phone....a phone people. There are WAY bigger things going on around you right now to get this worked up about a phone..... If you need some perspective on life please feel free to read my blog.
We can do better... I know we are all capable of better... When crap threads get started don't dignify them by commenting, just move past it. Report it if you want and more on... We should all take some pride in all the accomplishments this community achieved.
For my part, I will continue to help, learn and contribute to this community while spreading Autism Awareness..... What will you do?
Amen brother!
Gotta agree with you 100%. I came from another forum and a WinMo phone, and the community was much more supportive and friendly. The only reason I stay is because of a few excellent developers here. Not sure why XDA is getting so unpleasant, but we could use a little more tolerance here.
(Hope that doesn't get me banned)
Well said. Its all free why complain. I am not a developer but I have tried every rom on here and it seems to me most of the roms have a little bit of work from all the devs......so why the bickering. I also have to imagine most devs do this as kind of a hobby, why else do it there is almost nothing to be gained other than the challenge of improving on something that a manufacturer didn't get quite right (not baashing sammy every phone has its own issues or xda probably wouldn't be so popular).
That being said I just started using midnight, nice rom man. But besides that I started reading your blog about a month ago, it really makes me step back and take a look at things differently. I don't post much on this site cuz I have little to actually contribute but your right there are bigger things than a rom to get worked up over.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA Premium App
I think you and all the devs do an awesome job personally. Honestly any problem I've ever had has been solved just by searching for literally less then 5 minutes. I hardly need to ask questions because the devs and testers are so quick to answer any question. I absolutely LOVE how my phone runs and works.
Any negative threads I just...ignore. No point in them really.
So ya THANKS to you and all the devs.
I know when i was on my tp2 and flashing roms even tho how much a pos that phone was compared to this amazing phone we have now and the awesome roms we have
i have been happy and not complaining about anything on my epic.
If people dont like samsung then go buy something else i personally been fed up with htc hardware..
As for redirecting to sites, i have no problem doing that a all and i like reading your blog @ptfdmedic i always goto your site if im looking for a flashable zip or news, even tho i dont use your rom
i appreciate all your hard work and your autism awareness.
This community is for people who want to experiment with your phone and make it better, so if you happen to have an issue dont complain instead search read instructions and dont be lazy and ***** at samsung software glitches and what not considering our amazing developers here usually have some fixes within a few hours of the bug report.
AMAZING
Thanks to all the developers
For making my epic truly epic and better then any phone out atm.
Agreed!!
As for me not much i can do but give sexual favors....
The issues described reflect a larger societal issue. We cannot change people, so the best tools are forum moderators and users setting a good example.
iSaint said:
As for me not much i can do but give sexual favors....
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u say this after you take your so called "Toothpaste" ad out of your signature. lmao
I agree with you pftmedic. Thanks for that speech. I hope.more.people will read it and realize what you said. Why get worked up cause you have to.make 2 extra clicks to download a rom for FREE!! I also wanted to say that I.love reading your blogs Rob and my prayers are with you and your family. I really enjoyed the story about the man at the grocery store. That was very touching and you had me emotional. I know your goal is to try to get autism awareness out there so people can understand it. I don't know anyone that has autism so I never really knew about it. I just wanted to let u know that you opened up my eyes to autism and I.live reading your stories. Thanks for being such an inspiration to us when we are feeling overwhelmed with something. I will continue to pray for you and your family and God bless your little angels.
Sent From My Evo Killer!
iSaint said:
Agreed!!
As for me not much i can do but give sexual favors....
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...comedic relief.....
Perhaps sometimes people need a place to vent and work out their stress. I know, do it elsewhere, not here......
Thank you for saying what a lot of us have been thinking.
Its always been this unpleasant with the exception of a few brief periods.. Its just the nature of the Epic community.
stir fry a lot said:
Its always been this unpleasant with the exception of a few brief periods.. Its just the nature of the Epic community.
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I agree but that doesn't mean we have to continue making the same mistakes.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. So if we want better then we need to change things up a bit.
ptfdmedic said:
I agree but that doesn't mean we have to continue making the same mistakes.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. So if we want better then we need to change things up a bit.
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Well said my friend
Sent From My Epic Bonsai Tree
Thanks, it is appreciated. I agree with the complaints thing. It's part of the reason I don't post too often. Except to thank.
Yea i was "joking"
Keepin it Constructive
Thanks buddy - well said! Hope this connects with the right folks.
Well said ptfdmedic, I agree that there are many people who feel entitled here. Maybe I come across that way without feeling like I do but I try my best not to. I don't hit the thanks button much but I am fairly new here and I am not used to it. As for redirecting to your site, I actually like being redirected there, I read 50 pages of your blog the other night and it was eyeopening. My father works in special-ed and the kids he works with are at Eliot's level, it was interesting to read just how further the continuum goes.
I always wanted to share this as some people call themselves developers in this forum by just removing and adding some apps and making roms "look faster". What they is actually going into the app called spare parts and choose the fast transition and fast windows animations. So why not trying these settings on cm7 and see which is faster people? Or any other rom developed by true developers!! I am not saying im against rom development but at least if u are trying to develop then do something unique and not a rom that even my grandma could do
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App (cm7)
I agree mostly... the vast majority of roms available for us right now are just themed CM7. that's fine and dandy, but it's particularly amusing to me when people talk smack about CM7 being "slow" or "buggy" etc and then claim their new rom of choice, a CM7 variant, is the best thing since sliced bread.
that said, even theming can be a hell of a task, and extremely time consuming. I appreciate all of the work the development community provides to us (free of charge, mind you).
I don't see what you are trying to get at here. For a start I have tried just about every rom there is and I don't believe I have ever come across one that has window tansitions set to fast by default. We have a really good mix of devs here doing different things and do great work. You need to remember that devs build a rom that they like, quite often it is built for them and they choose to release it to the general public.
One of the great things about this community is choice. A rom that one person loves and another will hate, its all about personal preference.
Do you know anything about developing a rom? I don't but I knw a lot of work goes in to them and the devs do a lot more than change some settings on spare parts to make there rom different, better and faster than the next rom.
Your post in insulting to the devs that work really hard to give us something cool and awesome.
Sent from an ice cream sandwich
Well said. You must strive to support to the best of your abilities, the development scene for this respective phone.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
There is a MAJOR difference between Chef and Developers, that's why we have the term Chef for non devs that make ROMs.
I never said not supporting TRUE dev!! Im referring to those that call themselves devs by removing and adding a few apps. Go into other handsets forums and see what i mean. For ouf g2 only a few deserve to be called devs. Thats what im saying..
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
I know who your referring to, and if your not referring to someone in particular, there is someone who repackages stuff that offers nothing new and everyone wets there pants over it. Getting on my nerves somewhat.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
TheDeadCpu said:
There is a MAJOR difference between Chef and Developers, that's why we have the term Chef for non devs that make ROMs.
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And does anyone actually use the chef title here on the g2 forum? No....
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
I think this thread really exemplifies a major issue in the dev community: The lack of drive for a unified stable product whose basic functions all work properly across a cross section of devices.
Theaming is all well and good, but if MMS doesn't work and you have force crashes on multiple internal apps; what exactly is it all good for? If I can't boot up gps, then what the heck does it matter? If internal components and tweaks are confusing and ill thought out, then why the heck are they being shared?
I really think that the dev community needs to sit down across multiple devices & hash these issues out.
astriaos said:
I think this thread really exemplifies a major issue in the dev community: The lack of drive for a unified stable product whose basic functions all work properly across a cross section of devices.
Theaming is all well and good, but if MMS doesn't work and you have force crashes on multiple internal apps; what exactly is it all good for? If I can't boot up gps, then what the heck does it matter? If internal components and tweaks are confusing and ill thought out, then why the heck are they being shared?
I really think that the dev community needs to sit down across multiple devices & hash these issues out.
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Yohu know what your looking for? A stock rom....they all work! The devs here are pushing the boundries and taking our phones to the edge! Of course not everything will work out of the box and if they fixed everything before they released it they would have to deal with everyone begging for the next release.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
xsteven77x said:
I know who your referring to, and if your not referring to someone in particular, there is someone who repackages stuff that offers nothing new and everyone wets there pants over it. Getting on my nerves somewhat.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
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Thats what im talking about. I m glad someone agrees with me.. cheers mate
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
kokoskokis544 said:
Thats what im talking about. I m glad someone agrees with me.. cheers mate
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
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Thought I was the only one too but did not want to be rude or sound ungrateful. I do appreciate every quote on quote devs work and passion for making us roms. But some of these are just stock with the equivelant of removing bloat with titanium backup. No system tweaks. Nothing really even changed. if anything they should just be called bloatless roms or something.
On another note, while I do get annoyed that a lot of stuff is just cyanogen with a slick of paint on it, obviously the work it takes to build a rom from the ground up is not easy. Otherwise we would see a lot more of them. I do understand that and do not take lightly how hard it probably is. Maybe the answer is let's port some roms from other phones? Like insertcoin for example? Or maybe all the devs that are just repackaging stuff get together and form something along the lines of what the bionix team does and all work together to make one super good rom.
I LOVE the choices we have with this phone. Its f-in awesome. But sometimes I feel like its just a placebo with really one 3 to 4 actual unique roms for our g2. I do not know how to make roms, so I'm not acting like this can be done overnight. But some of this just seems like common sense no matter what angle your coming from.
Obviously rmk is a rom god. And suilmagic seems like an up and comer. Pershoots kick ass. I thought for a minute there was many a rumor that eugene was heading our way, which if true would probably cause a dam near astronomical shift in this forum, hope there is some truth to that rumor. Those are devs that stand out to me, if I didn't say your name I just didn't think of you when I was writing this.
Thank you for indulging my two cents. I do not mean to offend anyone whatsoever. I appreciate everything you guys do for us. But let's not sugarcoat the reality of our situation.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
kokoskokis544, welcome to the club
what enrages me the most is the absence of detailed information on what exactly is done to the rom - goes against the community spirit.
I would like to research the changes myself and make sure there's nothing that can damage my phone.
actually, from my point of view, the worst thing is when someone does not give deserved credit - "Grab, use and forget"
petarpLab said:
kokoskokis544, welcome to the club
what enrages me the most is the absence of detailed information on what exactly is done to the rom - goes against the community spirit.
I would like to research the changes myself and make sure there's nothing that can damage my phone.
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I agree that is extremely annoying. And then you ask what is it in it or whats different from other roms and you get a "INSTALL IT STUPID AND FIND OUT"....YA WELL UP YOURS TOO
even decompiling a rom and making minor changes like adding/removing apks and tweaking existing settings takes hours of work. theming is even more time consuming. I don't think most people realize this. the work itself isn't "hard," but the amount of time you have to set aside to be able to do this kind of stuff is extremely tough to come by, at least for me.
in that respect, you should all be grateful for the time ALL devs and chefs, regardless of the substance of their contributions, devote to giving us new stuff to play with.
pmcqueen said:
even decompiling a rom and making minor changes like adding/removing apks and tweaking existing settings takes hours of work. theming is even more time consuming. I don't think most people realize this. the work itself isn't "hard," but the amount of time you have to set aside to be able to do this kind of stuff is extremely tough to come by, at least for me.
in that respect, you should all be grateful for the time ALL devs and chefs, regardless of the substance of their contributions, devote to giving us new stuff to play with.
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I'm glad there is at least one person here that share my point of view.
[sig]My mission is to hit 1000 posts by 23/05/2011[sig]
cjward23 said:
I'm glad there is at least one person here that share my point of view.
[sig]My mission is to hit 1000 posts by 23/05/2011[sig]
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Make that two. I don't really see a reason to get all aggro over something that is free. As to something that "might damage my phone".... um.. what? To my knowledge, the devs (or whatever some may wish to call them) are not into the practice of putting out toxic software for us to download. To make sure, I use this goofy thing called judgement. I'll look at a new ROM, read the dev comments, wait a while, read the feedback comments, and make a decision. Not complicated. If there are a ton of bugs and problems, I'll wait until later versions come out that correct these issues. Or I'll choose another ROM. I honestly don't see the point of complaining about free services and a plethora of options. If people don't like all that, unroot and stay with stock software.
cjward23 said:
I'm glad there is at least one person here that share my point of view.
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No, I'm with you too. While I don't know zip about development, I can appreciate the fact that it takes time and effort to create and upload a ROM, even one that is just a tweaked version of someone else's work.
While the OP seems to be complaining about one or a few people in particular, it seems that many people who post ROMs are doing it for the sheer enjoyment, or to create something unique for themselves. Then, they go out of their way to upload and post it on here for others to enjoy. Of course, giving credit when its due, and describing what has been changed (and what hasn't), as previously suggested, are all good points as well.
Its not like there is a whole lot of fortune and glory associated with calling yourself a "developer". If somebody is even calling themselves that, its probably due to lack of a better term, more than anything else. Its a bit cumbersome to go around calling yourself "Guy who modified a ROM for myself, and now posting it for others to enjoy".
Besides, if you don't like a person's ROMs, just don't use them or read his threads. Not enough ROMs tends to be the more common complaint, rather than too many (although obviously quality is a factor as well, not just quantity).
If you really wanna ***** about free services then don't use them, switch phones, go to a different dev community. People do this work for fun, they don't ask for money for the hours of work they put in. You should be appreciative for whatever ROMs we get ,especially if you don't "dev" yourself.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
Here's my two cents on the issue.
I'm not privvy to all the "behind-the-scenes" info, but I have seen some crap in my time here on XDA, which has solely been in the EPIC community.
Not relevant in all cases, but for instance when BThomas was still kickin' around with Viper, he almost threw in the towel on numerous occasions after anonymous dev\mods with influence or power got butt-hurt and tried to get his work banned. That kind of crap is no doubt one reason why some devs have disappeared, not to mention whatever happened with some of the ACS devs.
No doubt people get all crazed with their interwebz power, get jealous, and try to throw some weight around. Maybe that works in the workforce when people get a paycheck, but the last thing someone wants is for morons to start complaining about how your volunteered time is hurting their ego.
...maybe we need to front the $$$ for a whaaambulance, might clean few things up around here.
I'm leaving here soon! .. But not all is devs crying over a thanks .. Some of us members are part of the reason too!
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA Premium App
dcowboys2184 said:
I'm leaving here soon! .. But not all is devs crying over a thanks .. Some of us members are part of the reason too!
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA Premium App
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Its not for a thanks, its for credit.
And a "thanks" is the least you can do to give back.
Sent from my SPH-D700
dcowboys2184 said:
I'm leaving here soon! .. But not all is devs crying over a thanks .. Some of us members are part of the reason too!
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA Premium App
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To be sure, for every one of us that supports by money or time, there are those that choose to piss and moan.
But as was said above, being butt-hurt has little to do with receiving a thanks but the opposite when a thanks is deserved...and also going to silly measures to satisfy your jealousy/ego.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
thanks to the name of the phone all news regarding it is instantly over-sensationalized..
EPIC dev fallout sounds pretty.. uh.. epic
Yeah, it is rather punny =D
Nothing against you MeetFace.. But don't you think we have enough threads about devs. It seems like every week after one falls off the frontpage a new one is started. Adding another one in the General section isn't going to do anything but make more people coming to this forum just move else where. If the Devs get into it with each other we should let them sort it out and not get involved. Besides the Evo section has always been worse than ours..
If had noticed/felt that I was being redundant or "preaching to the choir", I would withheld my remarks.
I don't check the forums as often as I used to, and I check the general section even less, so forgive my lack of noticing what apparently may be a problem. I was merely responding to an issue that was raised in a closed thread, felt like there were some words that needed to be said.
If you think my comments are wrong or misplaced...then you are naive, because I speak of real situations. I won't go into any more detail, but I will say this:
If you can't man up an be civilized, then you should keep your mouth shut, and regardless of your contributions, whether they be developing or support, you are doing a major disservice to a "community" when you try to tear people down in public, instead of trying to build them up.
It's really simple. Adhere to the GPL and the XDA rules against advertising other sites that require registration to download custom ROMS.
A "donation" to obtain access to GPL or similarly licensed code violates the GPL (or the respective license) and will get your ass sued by the FSF. Thusly, linking to a site that violates the law will land XDA in trouble.
RMS would **** bricks over what some of the devs here have done.
I get that, and for those situations, it overrides anything I said here in this thread.
But that's not the whole story in all situations...thus the thread I created.
MeetFace said:
I get that, and for those situations, it overrides anything I said here in this thread.
But that's not the whole story in all situations...thus the thread I created.
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Sorry, I wasn't replying to you. I just want to make it clear the reason why the mods/XDA has reacted to some devs the way they have. It's to cover their own asses from legal repercussions.
No hard feelings, just wanted to clarify that I wasn't implying the above was the case with those types of issues. Didn't mean to sound abrasive, gotta love voice-less text =]
But again, I do agree with, people should follow the rules, people should not take things so personally, and in and open source environment, people should get so selfish.
I fully agree with you. And the loss of emotion and everything else by using text-only is something that completely enrages me when I want to actually talk to my friends who live half-way around the world but they refuse to use webcams or even voice. I've just resorted to telling them to screw off unless they call or video-call me. Far too much meaning is lost otherwise and only causes trouble.
dcowboys2184 said:
I'm leaving here soon! .. But not all is devs crying over a thanks .. Some of us members are part of the reason too!
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA Premium App
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You're right. It is some of the members too. The members that bash people because they ask a noob question and feel that they are so far above the person that they have to put them down. There's bullying in this forum and to the point where I've almost stepped in and said something in defense of the person. That kind of **** has no place here, just like the other crap doesnt either.
You'll like this:
http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006/02/70179
I've read the actual study years back in one of my business classes back at the old University.
This is why you can't take things personally all the time...will save you some butt-hurt =D
I don't really have anything to add to this conversation, but I just wanted to say that "butt-hurt" is my new favorite internet phrase. That is all.
MeetFace said:
You'll like this:
http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006/02/70179
I've read the actual study years back in one of my business classes back at the old University.
This is why you can't take things personally all the time...will save you some butt-hurt =D
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Or add in a " " and make someones day! Lol
Sent from my SPH-D700
djbacon06 said:
I don't really have anything to add to this conversation, but I just wanted to say that "butt-hurt" is my new favorite internet phrase. That is all.
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I'll have to admit, your appreciation of my usage of the phrase afforded me not a few audibly deep belly chuckles.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
I started a thread about this a while ago. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1002595
I have a slightly different take on all of this. While I'm glad that most of today's issues are resolved these problems will arise again. This whole thing went down today because someone complained about pieces and parts of a developers ROM. Then I got dragged into this because I use the Bonsai kernel that I made NO changes to. Apparently all I had to do was post a link to the Bonsai source code and the problem went away. There are not a lot of us left here in the Epic forums for various and often times preventable reasons.
There is to much inconsistency with how these forums are moderated. Is impaler gone now? I mean it's like one day everything is ok and then the next day it's a problem. In all fairness to the mods they are over worked and simply not paid. Perhaps, xda should think about paying these guys a little something for their efforts. Perhaps XDA is growing to fast for it's own good. I mean in my opinion is quality over quantity.
My other issue is the in-fighting. We have people here that live to make drama and start flame wars. I'm not singling anyone out on this but it happens and a lot more often in the past few weeks. I don't know why we don't focus more on purging the forums of problem people rather then productive developers that choose to venture away from xda. We also need to be very careful about publicly accusing people of being in violation of a GPL. Falsely accusing someone of something should not be taken lightly. All it serves to do is misinform the community and cause confusion for the users as to what really happened. Not to mention the damage done to someones reputation.
XDA would be nothing without the developers and users that make it up. I realize that XDA makes the rules and are well within their rights to do so. But sometimes some of these rules need to be revisited from time to time to make sure they are applicable especially when a site is growing as rapidly as XDA is.
This place used to be an escape for me. Something I enjoyed participating in but anymore it serves to cause more stress then it helps to manage. If we want this community to survive we ALL need to think about how we carry ourselves here and what kind of behavior and attitude we deem acceptable. I'm very frustrated with the direction this is all going in and I have really tried to keep us going in the right direction. We all play a part in the negativity and we ALL NEED to play a part in making things better.
For the record, I thought today was handled pretty well as far as transparency goes. So Thank You.
Threads like this need to go away. Drama explaining the drama. Wish the mods would just delete any drama threads here.
Thank you mods. According to JT now he no longer be contributing to this site due to your ****ty job. We lost one if the best developers.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA Premium App
Where is he going
Tap-a-Talked from my Mesmerize
CM7 @ 1.2ghz w/ Tk-Glitch ML Kernel
Where did you hear that? If it's true, then that's pretty depressing. I hope he changes his mind eventually.
I don't blame him for leaving. But it does kinda suck.
Tap-a-Talked from my Mesmerize
CM7 @ 1.2ghz w/ Tk-Glitch ML Kernel
He'll continue to update @rootzwiki
I figured he would. That's gonna be the place to go if things don't change around here. He isn't the first to go and I say he won't be the last either.
Tap-a-Talked from my Mesmerize
CM7 @ 1.2ghz w/ Tk-Glitch ML Kernel
Yes, the mods should work to clean up some of the asinine and obnoxious posts on here, such as this thread's OP. Too bad adults have to be monitored like children
johnnyplaid said:
Yes, the mods should work to clean up some of the asinine and obnoxious posts on here, such as this thread's OP. Too bad adults have to be monitored like children
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Zinger. Just reporting what I saw on twitter. Back to your moms basement
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA Premium App
I don't get what the whole drama is about. I saw adrynalyn's letter although it really didn't explain what exactly happened at xda and why he was banned and why other developers are leaving too. It seems like there is a massive exodus of developers but I really don't know why or what happened. There is drama here definitely but not much more than I've seen at other forums although xda has gotten huge. Oh, well... I really don't care what forum I go to. I don't get too involved.
Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk
Damn. Didnt know Adrynalyn had got banned. That's pretty messed up. As for the exodus I have noticed it too. There almost no development going on in the Mesmerize development section. All of them have went to Rootzwiki. I haven't even seen them post in other threads or anything. So whatever has happened its enough to piss them all off. I wouldn't mind knowing what happened myself but oh well. Maybe I don't need too.
Tap-a-Talked from my Mesmerize
CM7 @ 1.2ghz w/ Tk-Glitch ML Kernel
What exactly are you talking about? What lack of moderation have you seen? Maybe instead of posting a complaint thread you could actually bring something to my attention and it can get dealt with. I moderate 3 forums here at XDA and don't see EVERYTHING. Seriously, we have a report post button for a reason...
ashasaur said:
What exactly are you talking about? What lack of moderation have you seen? Maybe instead of posting a complaint thread you could actually bring something to my attention and it can get dealt with. I moderate 3 forums here at XDA and don't see EVERYTHING. Seriously, we have a report post button for a reason...
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first, I like how you cleaned this place up from what it was, and I have not seen anything singling you out. I follow a lot of devs on twitter.. And from what I gather, most of the frustration and animosity from the devs is toward the community itself. And what is toward the mods, it seems more the lack of numbers. another thing that I think bugs the devs is xda's add revenue not being put toward the community or t.the devs enough.. What it boils down to is
The feeling of appreciation, they all do this expecting nothing. So your gonna be on thin ice from the get go.. Devs don't need XDA at all, not 1 bit.. But you do need them. Xda needs to kiss the devs asses and make them feel like royalty, weather you like it or not, that's the only thing that will keep the devs here
Sent from a beautiful miui fascinate
neh4pres said:
first, I like how you cleaned this place up from what it was, and I have not seen anything singling you out. I follow a lot of devs on twitter.. And from what I gather, most of the frustration and animosity from the devs is toward the community itself. And what is toward the mods, it seems more the lack of numbers. another thing that I think bugs the devs is xda's add revenue not being put toward the community or t.the devs enough.. What it boils down to is
The feeling of appreciation, they all do this expecting nothing. So your gonna be on thin ice from the get go.. Devs don't need XDA at all, not 1 bit.. But you do need them. Xda needs to kiss the devs asses and make them feel like royalty, weather you like it or not, that's the only thing that will keep the devs here
Sent from a beautiful miui fascinate
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No, it wont. These forums are very poorly moderated, I think the mods expect too much from people as far as reporting goes. Threads are made in the wrong section all of the time and dont get moved for days sometimes a week+ Some threads need to be cleaned of non contributing, repetitive crap. The list is longer than I care to sit here and type out. In the end, the lack of moderation and the bickering/immaturity that stems from every side of the table is going to do this forum in. It's not the first time and it wont be the last time. This site got too popular and too many people that have no desire to learn come here expecting to be spoon fed information. Anyways, it's sad to see that it had to come to this. Personally I think whatever action is taken might just be too late unless someone proactively tried to mend the situation from all angles.
I'd like to thanks the mods for their service to the community. You guys don't get paid to do this stuff, so we appreciate it. As for the developers, it's obvious that we all should have the utmost respect and thankfulness for all of them, as they contribute to the functionality and usability of our phones and expect nothing in return. The only thing that really, really hacks me is when people expect nice little packages to be delivered to their phone, (bug-free) and become downright donkey holes when they are asked to learn something themselves. XDA is a learning and collaboration portal, and those who demand something for nothing immediately give the lot of us a bad name. Keep up the good work mods and devs.
Thanks bro. Much appreciated. We DON'T get paid to do this, we are all here on a volunteer basis.
People have forgotten what XDA is truly about...DEVELOPMENT and COLLABORATION between users who want to get the most out of their devices, not a place to come and make your phone 1337.
But alas, all this will turn into is a flame war, so hey, hers some moderation since I apparently don't do my job. /s
Thread closed.