I always wanted to share this as some people call themselves developers in this forum by just removing and adding some apps and making roms "look faster". What they is actually going into the app called spare parts and choose the fast transition and fast windows animations. So why not trying these settings on cm7 and see which is faster people? Or any other rom developed by true developers!! I am not saying im against rom development but at least if u are trying to develop then do something unique and not a rom that even my grandma could do
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App (cm7)
I agree mostly... the vast majority of roms available for us right now are just themed CM7. that's fine and dandy, but it's particularly amusing to me when people talk smack about CM7 being "slow" or "buggy" etc and then claim their new rom of choice, a CM7 variant, is the best thing since sliced bread.
that said, even theming can be a hell of a task, and extremely time consuming. I appreciate all of the work the development community provides to us (free of charge, mind you).
I don't see what you are trying to get at here. For a start I have tried just about every rom there is and I don't believe I have ever come across one that has window tansitions set to fast by default. We have a really good mix of devs here doing different things and do great work. You need to remember that devs build a rom that they like, quite often it is built for them and they choose to release it to the general public.
One of the great things about this community is choice. A rom that one person loves and another will hate, its all about personal preference.
Do you know anything about developing a rom? I don't but I knw a lot of work goes in to them and the devs do a lot more than change some settings on spare parts to make there rom different, better and faster than the next rom.
Your post in insulting to the devs that work really hard to give us something cool and awesome.
Sent from an ice cream sandwich
Well said. You must strive to support to the best of your abilities, the development scene for this respective phone.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
There is a MAJOR difference between Chef and Developers, that's why we have the term Chef for non devs that make ROMs.
I never said not supporting TRUE dev!! Im referring to those that call themselves devs by removing and adding a few apps. Go into other handsets forums and see what i mean. For ouf g2 only a few deserve to be called devs. Thats what im saying..
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
I know who your referring to, and if your not referring to someone in particular, there is someone who repackages stuff that offers nothing new and everyone wets there pants over it. Getting on my nerves somewhat.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
TheDeadCpu said:
There is a MAJOR difference between Chef and Developers, that's why we have the term Chef for non devs that make ROMs.
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Click to collapse
And does anyone actually use the chef title here on the g2 forum? No....
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
I think this thread really exemplifies a major issue in the dev community: The lack of drive for a unified stable product whose basic functions all work properly across a cross section of devices.
Theaming is all well and good, but if MMS doesn't work and you have force crashes on multiple internal apps; what exactly is it all good for? If I can't boot up gps, then what the heck does it matter? If internal components and tweaks are confusing and ill thought out, then why the heck are they being shared?
I really think that the dev community needs to sit down across multiple devices & hash these issues out.
astriaos said:
I think this thread really exemplifies a major issue in the dev community: The lack of drive for a unified stable product whose basic functions all work properly across a cross section of devices.
Theaming is all well and good, but if MMS doesn't work and you have force crashes on multiple internal apps; what exactly is it all good for? If I can't boot up gps, then what the heck does it matter? If internal components and tweaks are confusing and ill thought out, then why the heck are they being shared?
I really think that the dev community needs to sit down across multiple devices & hash these issues out.
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Yohu know what your looking for? A stock rom....they all work! The devs here are pushing the boundries and taking our phones to the edge! Of course not everything will work out of the box and if they fixed everything before they released it they would have to deal with everyone begging for the next release.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
xsteven77x said:
I know who your referring to, and if your not referring to someone in particular, there is someone who repackages stuff that offers nothing new and everyone wets there pants over it. Getting on my nerves somewhat.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
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Thats what im talking about. I m glad someone agrees with me.. cheers mate
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
kokoskokis544 said:
Thats what im talking about. I m glad someone agrees with me.. cheers mate
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
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Thought I was the only one too but did not want to be rude or sound ungrateful. I do appreciate every quote on quote devs work and passion for making us roms. But some of these are just stock with the equivelant of removing bloat with titanium backup. No system tweaks. Nothing really even changed. if anything they should just be called bloatless roms or something.
On another note, while I do get annoyed that a lot of stuff is just cyanogen with a slick of paint on it, obviously the work it takes to build a rom from the ground up is not easy. Otherwise we would see a lot more of them. I do understand that and do not take lightly how hard it probably is. Maybe the answer is let's port some roms from other phones? Like insertcoin for example? Or maybe all the devs that are just repackaging stuff get together and form something along the lines of what the bionix team does and all work together to make one super good rom.
I LOVE the choices we have with this phone. Its f-in awesome. But sometimes I feel like its just a placebo with really one 3 to 4 actual unique roms for our g2. I do not know how to make roms, so I'm not acting like this can be done overnight. But some of this just seems like common sense no matter what angle your coming from.
Obviously rmk is a rom god. And suilmagic seems like an up and comer. Pershoots kick ass. I thought for a minute there was many a rumor that eugene was heading our way, which if true would probably cause a dam near astronomical shift in this forum, hope there is some truth to that rumor. Those are devs that stand out to me, if I didn't say your name I just didn't think of you when I was writing this.
Thank you for indulging my two cents. I do not mean to offend anyone whatsoever. I appreciate everything you guys do for us. But let's not sugarcoat the reality of our situation.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
kokoskokis544, welcome to the club
what enrages me the most is the absence of detailed information on what exactly is done to the rom - goes against the community spirit.
I would like to research the changes myself and make sure there's nothing that can damage my phone.
actually, from my point of view, the worst thing is when someone does not give deserved credit - "Grab, use and forget"
petarpLab said:
kokoskokis544, welcome to the club
what enrages me the most is the absence of detailed information on what exactly is done to the rom - goes against the community spirit.
I would like to research the changes myself and make sure there's nothing that can damage my phone.
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Click to collapse
I agree that is extremely annoying. And then you ask what is it in it or whats different from other roms and you get a "INSTALL IT STUPID AND FIND OUT"....YA WELL UP YOURS TOO
even decompiling a rom and making minor changes like adding/removing apks and tweaking existing settings takes hours of work. theming is even more time consuming. I don't think most people realize this. the work itself isn't "hard," but the amount of time you have to set aside to be able to do this kind of stuff is extremely tough to come by, at least for me.
in that respect, you should all be grateful for the time ALL devs and chefs, regardless of the substance of their contributions, devote to giving us new stuff to play with.
pmcqueen said:
even decompiling a rom and making minor changes like adding/removing apks and tweaking existing settings takes hours of work. theming is even more time consuming. I don't think most people realize this. the work itself isn't "hard," but the amount of time you have to set aside to be able to do this kind of stuff is extremely tough to come by, at least for me.
in that respect, you should all be grateful for the time ALL devs and chefs, regardless of the substance of their contributions, devote to giving us new stuff to play with.
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Click to collapse
I'm glad there is at least one person here that share my point of view.
[sig]My mission is to hit 1000 posts by 23/05/2011[sig]
cjward23 said:
I'm glad there is at least one person here that share my point of view.
[sig]My mission is to hit 1000 posts by 23/05/2011[sig]
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Make that two. I don't really see a reason to get all aggro over something that is free. As to something that "might damage my phone".... um.. what? To my knowledge, the devs (or whatever some may wish to call them) are not into the practice of putting out toxic software for us to download. To make sure, I use this goofy thing called judgement. I'll look at a new ROM, read the dev comments, wait a while, read the feedback comments, and make a decision. Not complicated. If there are a ton of bugs and problems, I'll wait until later versions come out that correct these issues. Or I'll choose another ROM. I honestly don't see the point of complaining about free services and a plethora of options. If people don't like all that, unroot and stay with stock software.
cjward23 said:
I'm glad there is at least one person here that share my point of view.
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Click to collapse
No, I'm with you too. While I don't know zip about development, I can appreciate the fact that it takes time and effort to create and upload a ROM, even one that is just a tweaked version of someone else's work.
While the OP seems to be complaining about one or a few people in particular, it seems that many people who post ROMs are doing it for the sheer enjoyment, or to create something unique for themselves. Then, they go out of their way to upload and post it on here for others to enjoy. Of course, giving credit when its due, and describing what has been changed (and what hasn't), as previously suggested, are all good points as well.
Its not like there is a whole lot of fortune and glory associated with calling yourself a "developer". If somebody is even calling themselves that, its probably due to lack of a better term, more than anything else. Its a bit cumbersome to go around calling yourself "Guy who modified a ROM for myself, and now posting it for others to enjoy".
Besides, if you don't like a person's ROMs, just don't use them or read his threads. Not enough ROMs tends to be the more common complaint, rather than too many (although obviously quality is a factor as well, not just quantity).
If you really wanna ***** about free services then don't use them, switch phones, go to a different dev community. People do this work for fun, they don't ask for money for the hours of work they put in. You should be appreciative for whatever ROMs we get ,especially if you don't "dev" yourself.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
Related
I hope this will come to fruition with the input and help of everyone here.
I think having a community ROM(s) where all contributors get a equal share of donations would be a great idea for our community and catch on. That way when one donates it goes to all contributors developers/bakers/and anyone else who would be contributing by managing the thread/hosting or anything else that would be a part of the new Community ROM(now that's love). The specifics can be ironed out (suggestions welcomed). I personally don't want to be a contributor just the inspiration to get this moving. So I will be out of the picture.
Any suggestions would be welcomed!!!
A few I would have are:
How would developers divide the moneys? I was thinking a trusted and liked community member who would run the thread. Or if their was a way to set up Paypal or something to divide payments to all contributors(probably unlikely)
This Community ROM should be about 100% Love and that their should be absolutely no fighting over moneys. If an individual doesn't want to receive money then they must suggest a cause to donate to.
When one donates to the Community ROM, it's exactly that, they are donating to a community!! Now thats love!
(please post in thread)
i think thats a good idea...i see certain people getting tons (litterally TONS) of donations, yet the people that are really behind a lot of that development are getting next to nothing. I see no problems there....giving credit by listing a name means nothing unless a portion of the donations are credited to each person involved.
Yeah, i agree with this. A commynity rom would be great if we all put our heads together.
Sent from my Cappy using mental telepathy, *****ezz.
I agree good idea.
the rom should be a generic rom
I am very much so interested in this idea, the question is, what kind of ROM would we be aiming to build? I'd be simply satisfied with a true, working AOSP build
I second Kaik!
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
I'm working on trying to build from aosp
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using Tapatalk
I am glad to hear this. ROMCOM sounds like a good name.
Seriously though if you guys want to do a aosp then by all means do it. I just wanted to put the idea out there , if you want to get all nasty and make a baked out ROM then by all means do it. It was the concept that i wanted to see incorporated in this. It all love...
Yeah, a working community ROM would be a godsend. Look how CM worked out. If we could build and then submit for approval to one person, or the community as a whole, we could come out with something great.
Sent from my Cappy using mental telepathy, *****ezz.
I think this is a great idea!!! We should do this for AOSP!! Im glad to help out even without donations but I'd take some too . Lets all get together on an IRC for planning this out imo? Want the channel to be #captivateaosp?
amwbt said:
I second Kaik!
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
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-1 for kaik!! lol
I don't know. I'll be the naysayer here, and say I think diversity is best. Cooperation? Sure. Trading ideas and being open and transparent? Yes. Trying to make everyone work on one rom, whether it's the one they want or not? I dunno
E_man5112 said:
I don't know. I'll be the naysayer here, and say I think diversity is best. Cooperation? Sure. Trading ideas and being open and transparent? Yes. Trying to make everyone work on one rom, whether it's the one they want or not? I dunno
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm kind of thinking along the same lines. Community stuff is great. I like the idea. And I also agree that it's a shame that some people end up getting lots of donations while the people that came before them making their ROM possible get nothing.
But like E-man said what about the normal diversity that we'd see with ROMs?
If everyone was working on only one ROM would they still have time to work on a ROM that has all the whistles and bells, and a ROM that has the bare minimum, and a ROM that has a fancy UI, and a ROM that....?
I'm all for this, but frankly I don't think there's a lot of incentive for the folks who know what they're doing to start working on something like this at the moment. We just got our first Froyo leak and the rumors are floating around about when this will become final. My point being, most serious developers aren't going to want to start working on Eclair when Froyo is really close to being on the scene.
That said, I'd love to see a project like this take place, and I'll be more than happy to test things, troubleshoot things, and help out where I can to support such a project
Like I said before this is a layout as long as the principles are applied then if some or few or different developers and contributors want to start another one or two then by all means do it! This principal should not be contained to just one ROM but used as a template for future ROMs. It's the communal monetary sharing that should always be applied in whatever ROM the community builds.
I'm starting a new thread in hopes that we can leave the negative shenanigans out of this one and get some work done here. Please help out all you can! Thanks
EDIT: changed the name of the thread a little as this thread is now including appreciation for our awesome devs here!
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
My estimate of our wonderful phone receiving 2.3 is Feb. 14th.
*facepalms
impossible
now mods have two threads to close
when and if someone gets it working, they'll make a thread. threads like this belong in general
clabbin said:
I'm starting a new thread in hopes that we can leave the negative shenanigans out of this one and get some work done here. Please help out all you can! Thanks
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
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Click to collapse
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
Devs please make sure you parse apps right that is the biggest problem people forget to check also. You must get rid of all eris files. This is a sdk build and really needs alot of changes to make work.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
Just go straight to honeycomb. Cant we just get a rom dump from the blurry pics of the non released motorola tablet shown today on engadget lol.
Now here's my question why must all leaked pictures be blurry??
Sent from my Incredible using XDA App
So they look "leaky" haha, clear photos don't look underground enough. I think its hilarious how so many people complain about how crappy gingerbread is but then complain when they don't have it after 3 seconds of it being released!
I know this thread will get closed quickly, but I did just want to express my thanks to all the devs here for all the hard work and energy you put into our toys. You guys deserve honor for what you do because many of you have families, real jobs, and real lives and you do all this for free.
But time is money and it costs you many hours so that we can load ridiculously cool software and soup our phones up, again, for free!
Its time we started giving honor, respect, and donations where it belongs. I apologize for the way some people have treated yall here, its not okay. I also think though that those of us who are appreciative need not be silent anymore, as unexpressed gratitude comes across as ingratitude. I am on here a lot checking for updates and downloadin new roms and probably need to speak up more on the positives. I think people only post when something goes wrong: if everything's smooth we silently bask in the rom glory, but if one bug comes our way we blow up the threads.
I know I am generalizing and this doesn't apply to everyone, but this is just what I've observed. Once again I honor you guys for the the skill, talent, and generosity you have to do all these amazing roms and kernels and themes for us. I know you do it for fun but seriously thank you!
Sent from my Inc which would suck without xda devs
Thats right people, lets all just be thankful we have devs out there supporting our phone. Even if some are split between projects and can't devote full attention to the Dinc, at least its SOMEBODY. At the end of the day, the majority of us would take one look at some code and go "screw that". These people got some major skill, and I'm thankful for ALL the devs every time I see my Dinc with a CM6 bootscreen (And others can insert their own ROM touches, Myn, SR, etc..).
I've always been meaning to really thank the devs here but I never know who to really thank anymore I mean rmk thanks for virtuous ncx I'm sure that's wrong but thanks your your awesome clocks whoever made my iron man splash screen thanks thanks to everyone who has made the eighty million mods I frankenstine into my phone. Without you all my phone would be lame and with you I have something I show off everyday. Thanks a lot to everyone you guys put a lot into stuff that gives close to nothing back and that is just idk awesome lol. I'm done with this thanks rant now. Lol I think we created a thanks thread for now and not a gingerbread one.
Sent from my Incredible using XDA App
I was going to start a new thread in general just for everyone to thank all the XDA devs working on the Incredible, but this one seems to have that vibe going. Who knows, maybe I still will make that thread. But anyways I just wanted to throw my thanks out there to the devs cause without you this whole forum wouldn't even be here. I know *some of you guys* got trashed earlier on other threads, and I'm sorry for that. I guess some people just got caught up in the smell of gingerbread fresh out of the oven. I hope you guys know that there are those of us who really do appreciate your work and although those like myself don't have the knowledge to write our own code, I personally am willing to help and contribute any way I can. So my hats off to you devs, keep fighting the good fight.
Droid Incredible for the win.
Sincerely,
Cmdoptesc47
Sent from my Incredible using XDA App
On a more interesting note.. I've been taking breaks from finals studying to play with the new sdk. My first couple attempts of a pure gingerbread rom for inc all resulted in boot loops. I'll definitely have more time to fuss around with it later today though. So, hold your freakin horses. Beggers can't always be choosers
When I get the new lap top I'm loking to make the dev jump
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
seanzer said:
On a more interesting note.. I've been taking breaks from finals studying to play with the new sdk. My first couple attempts of a pure gingerbread rom for inc all resulted in boot loops. I'll definitely have more time to fuss around with it later today though. So, hold your freakin horses. Beggers can't always be choosers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm working on this as well; boot looping here too. Free time is limited right now, though, so I'm not sure if I'll have anything usable before the new year.
Agree with everyone thanking the devs. You guys are awesome. Thanks for helping free us from the grasps of our carriers and use the full potential of our phones!!!!
I just want to post my thanks to all the developers. One of the reasons i purchased an android phone in the first place is the massive mod community that it had. My experience has been amazing and what some of you guys do is beyond what i can even imagine myself accomplishing with the same tools. The few asshats that get bent of shape every time something doesn't work exactly how they want are just that, the few and the loud. They do not speak for the majority and should be penalized for their disrespect.
As much as i could denounce ****ers like AndroidStu and papi, i understand where IncDoes is coming from. He, along with many other devs, give us all these things that they created in their free time completely free of charge. They owe us nothing and only share their creation with us. I am ashamed to be grouped with such ungrateful ****tards.
I'd also like to take some time to post a quick thanks to our dev community. You guys are superhuman.
If I have seen farther, it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.
Yep it's easy to get in a rut and forget and/or take for granted what these guys do. I used to theme for Blackberry and especially when I had multiple themes going, it seemed to consume every ounce of my free time. And what I was doing is like tinkertoys compared to what these guys are doing...no comparison. Not even in the same universe.
There have been some unfortunate events that have occured in the last day or so but regardless of what and when 2.3 advancements hit...my sincere thanks to all who make this phone and community a better place.
While everyone else is at it ill add
This phone has the best support by far than every other thread
The devs take the time to tackle individual problems that we have along with building us great roms
Sent from my Incredible using XDA App
superchilpil said:
While everyone else is at it ill add
This phone has the best support by far than every other thread
The devs take the time to tackle individual problems that we have along with building us great roms
Sent from my Incredible using XDA App
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Click to collapse
+1000. i can wait for Gingerbread. between cyanogen's rom, seanzers' CM6 fixes, invisiblek's kernels and everything else available for the DInc I've got an awesome phone and I'm hella grateful. i would be remiss to not at least shout out all the rest of the devs out there who are doing their thing as well.
the only person I know who'd hate on Devs is my wife, who feels like she's lost me to ROM flashing, kernel swapping, radio upgrading and all the other shenanigans that go with have root, bloody root.
I must also say thanks to all the devs the DInc has
You guys do some amazing stuff that I could never do
i have a rooted fascinate, no im not posting where my 2.2 update is, it'll get here when it gets here, more that this is a call out to any devs and end users like myself that are tired of the same old rom styles and themes. Some roms are straight beautiful, like Thatdudebutch's super dark v1, and sos3 blackhole, whereas some just seem too stock-ish to me.
Where is the imagination? The creativity? I know devs are always working they're ass's off to bring us the next best port or rom based off insert other rom name here... but im ready for the dev that says hey i created this from scratch...
Maybe its just me, maybe im being a whiney ass lol, but i think its time devs started using what they think is cool, not what everyone else thinks is cool. If the enduser doesnt like the rom/theme, then boo ****in hoo and they can use something else.
Like i think SONOFSKYWALKER3's idea of build your own rom was a huge breakthrough in end user controlled customization, but its still using whats already available to us in either stock, or from the select few top 3 roms.
Please guys, (devs too) Show us what you can really do, make that rom that takes our breath away. We will love you for it...i will love you for it (metaphorically speaking of course lol)
Show us what you can do too
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
Progress is progress. The devs are porting gb to the Fascinate, that's a start in real customization. Just wait, the devs are already working hard. If your pushing them so hard, why don't you help? Seriously, its this disappointment in devs that ruins a devs commitment.
Rockin' DJ05, Minimal Icognito, Clocked at 1.3Ghz
Why must everything be taken so negatively? I read this first post and saw it as inspiration. I can see that the devs who make roms make it for the general public not for themselves, and I think thats why they make them so similar to each other, as thats what most people like. I feel that a dev isn't really ready to go out of his/her way to bust they're ass and make a rom that only they and a handful of others are going to use.
All in all, I think the OPer made a good point in "challenging" the devs to 'unleash' their creativity into the atmosphere and make somthing of their own that they are truely balls to the wall about.
Just my 2 cents.
TheSonicEmerald said:
Progress is progress. The devs are porting gb to the Fascinate, that's a start in real customization. Just wait, the devs are already working hard. If your pushing them so hard, why don't you help? Seriously, its this disappointment in devs that ruins a devs commitment.
Rockin' DJ05, Minimal Icognito, Clocked at 1.3Ghz
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree completely...remember the devs don't have to do what they do for us...if it was as simple as 1,2,3 then everyone would create their own roms for themselves...
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
The problem is, there's more worth in porting gingerbread and then porting other roms like cyangenmod which are easier to customize, than customizing samsung's firmware updates.
Rockin' DJ05, Minimal Icognito, Clocked at 1.3Ghz
jdkzombie said:
If the enduser doesnt like the rom/theme, then boo ****in hoo and they can use something else.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah.. so what was the point of your post again?
Not at all trying to be negative, but what exactly are you looking for?
Sent from my SCH-I500
you are all missing the point of my post
its not to bash devs, its not to berate anyone, nor was it to solicit "why dont you do it yourself" comments. But since thats how everyone is going to take it, i guess i need to clarify. What i meant by devs making what they think is cool is for them to use their imagination and make their roms and themes unique. Too many roms out there have been sourced from others...not that this is a bad thing as there are beautiful works of art available to all who wants to flash them..
These devs bust their ass to make these things for us and i respect that with all my being, and i appreciate all that they do. My hats off to all of them. But, again, wheres the creativity? Why must they be forced to use what is already in the eclair, froyo, and Gingerbread roms as their inspiration? These guys can take 0's and 1's and turn them into something beautiful that cant be taken seriously in just pictures. In the last 3 days i have flashed more things to my phone than i can hardly count, yes i have screwed my phone up and recovered, but im not here explaining without experiencing the world of flashing.
Why dont i help out....i'd love to yet im not programmer. I have zero idea how coding and programming and bitmapping works. Thats why we have developers. Im not here to bash anyone. I go to school currently to be a master mechanic, therefore computer programming is worlds different from installing and tuning a greddy turbo, or replacing a radiator, or even doing a tune up on (insert friends name here)'s car.
Im calling out to devs to stop being restrained by the limitations we as endusers have put on them, to indirectly force their hand in creating something they may not like but we will because otherwise people out there will gripe and complain. Devs, make what YOU want. There are limitless capabilities to be had in android because its so open. As developers you are the ones who provide for us when the manufacturers fail to hold up their word/rumor/promise/ etc, i dont want you to think that you have to make these for us, i want you to want to make these for us. Without you developers we would all be stuck to a basic android existence harkening to that of apple and its lockdown on whats what.
I wanna see creations from your darkest fantasies about android. I want to see the rom that gets you all hot and bothered. I want to see the theme that you got the inspiration for while you were driving around town or watching a movie. Dammit guys, make what you want to see android be, enough being the lambs, its time to be the lion. When phone manufacturers fail, where do we turn? To you devs. You. I cant even begin to describe how much respect i have for what you do for us.
I'll finish this off with something for the people who will no doubt bash me and flame because i need to do it myself, or im being to hard on them, or i'm just being a whiny little *****. boo hoo. get over it. Its my post, regarding my OPINION. I didnt force any of you to view it. to read it. to comment on it. the fact that you did shows that each one of you feels the same way i do. We all love android. We all love what the devs do. Why should we hold them back from what their imaginations can design? What gives us the right to do that....
Respect devs...always and forever from me....respect.
jdkzombie said:
Why dont i help out....i'd love to yet im not programmer. I have zero idea how coding and programming and bitmapping works. Thats why we have developers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, you don't have to be a programmer to be "creative". In the design process all sorts of people are involved, and you could think up a concept. You could design a concept so great that a programmer would like at it and think it's great and decide to bring it to life. But asking people to be creative on your behalf, and using "i'm not a programmer" as an excuse to be a spectator is simply selfish I gotta say. Not trying to bash you too much, but simply saying there's many ways to be useful.
Jdkzombie is right...when linus developed the linux kernel he basically said....here it is, go forth and multiply...,now we have tons of different flavors and styles of linux. Android is awesome in its own right but we are only customizing something already there. (Devs....i definately mean no disrespect... ). The only thing i've seen so far that has bent that rule is MIUI. but that is too close to an iphone for me. I think what jdk is trying to say is...,where are the truely custom roms with wild and crazy user interfaces. I don't think jdk is asking the devs to stop what they are doing by no means...but maybe jdks asking why can't we all b more creative and come together as a community and come up with one ourselves with ideas from all of us...,and then find devs to take the plunge and make it happen. It all starts with an IDEA. So why not...,instead of bashing in this forum... ,let's start posting things we might want to be different in android and see what happens.
Think about it...,ubuntu linux- "your name here" android?
Thanks to all, devs, themers, and the users who have donated and contributed feedback over the years to make android what it is.
I may not post here much, but when i see something worth posting about i have to add MY opinion....and that's all it is.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
i think the op has a nice idea, but this probably isnt the phone to realize it on.
we have a handful of very talented devs, but really there time is mostly tied up in attempting to right the wrongs that samsung has done to us, by working on aosp/froyo/gb whatever.
the n1/ns community (or i9000) might be the guys you d want to bring your ideas to, as they have a global base of devs and their communities dwarf ours to the point of ridiculousness
See tho, one of the first lessons they teach you in most programming courses nowadays is "why reinvent the wheel?" It's there, it does it's job, why not build on top of that framework that already exists. This is the foundational principle of software engineering.
Think about it like this: you are in the woods and need to build a fire. You have plenty of dry wood, small kindling materials, and matches. Why would you go to the trouble of locating a striker stone and a piece of Flint to use to try and start the fire when you already have matches. You wouldn't unless you had no alternative or just liked to take the inefficient route for the sake of itself.
Another way to think of it is like this:
If I needed to drive from here in Mississippi to Nevada, I wouldn't build a car to drive if I already had one.
Devs are trying g to give us the most bang for our buck and that means using the tools and frameworks already in place.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
CrushD said:
Well, you don't have to be a programmer to be "creative". In the design process all sorts of people are involved, and you could think up a concept. You could design a concept so great that a programmer would like at it and think it's great and decide to bring it to life. But asking people to be creative on your behalf, and using "i'm not a programmer" as an excuse to be a spectator is simply selfish I gotta say. Not trying to bash you too much, but simply saying there's many ways to be useful.
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Why must you assume i havent already given my thoughts and ideas to several devs and "themers" on IRC. I have frequented that site for a good amount of time the past handful of days, both getting assistance with "de-bricking" my phone when i flash a no no to my device, and helping out who i can with their own problems.
It isnt just just me that should be "expected" to come up with new ideas here. I expect everyone to have something to contribute if you are going to post your comments (i use the word "your" in reference to everyone, not just anyone in particular)
You want a bit of my idea? I wanted to see a rom where the screens scroll vertically. Not horizontally like they "all" do. Where when you swipe the screen from left to right it open "your" favorite app. Swipe the screen from right to left and it opens the app try. I have also mentioned that a quick 3 tap on the home screen would zoom out showing a carousel of sorts that you can scroll through to select 1 of 9 home screens that can be filled to burst with your favorite widgets and apps. I dont have a preset color idea. Instead that we be afforded a color "wheel" to choose ourselves what collor basic things are. Be afforded to opportunity to make multiple themes like with ADW, that can installed "into" the rom. I assume everyone has seen the DROID commercials where the two robots select a few apps in the giant app "planet." That would be a sweet app tray wouldnt it? Would it be impossible? I dont know, since i have no idea how programming works. But im sure it would be quite the undertaking.
I would hope that this could be a place for anyone to post their ideas as well, not just mine. I also have this distinct feeling that as of my posts i will be held to a "imaginary" standard that it will be my obligation to post ideas and inspirations. But then therin lies my issue with roms today in general. These roms arent being made for me. If a developer makes anything like my idea, i want it to be something they want to see in android, not just because someone else said hey you develop roms, why dont you make this so i can have it.
This isnt/wasnt/never will be a thread to bash anyone including devs, themers, end users (other posters, but thats my point.) I wont bother to say im not going to be the only one. I dont have to post that. The sheer fact that you (the general population that bothers to read this thread) shows that wish there was more creativity, more originality,....hell....more of the "DEV" in his/her creation than anything else. It would make a developers rom/theme so much more their creation. So when someone says hey i have (for example) ThatDudeButch's new theme, its unique to HIM....the developer... and someone else that has a theme by Adiliyo (also for example) its going to be unique to HIM. Im really hoping all of you have the mental capacity (i used that term for lack of a better one, no offense intended for anyone) and the maturity level to understand that this is a challenge to all who design, develop, or theme, or even just dream to no longer be limited by the general public. Design whatever makes you get a stiffy if thats what it takes. What with the new 2.3 android os out, why should we hold the devs to make different copies of whats out. Why cant we encourage them to make the unthinkable....the un imagined...the roms that arent bound to a single line of influence.
If you (everyone and anyone) are going to post here simply to flame me for speaking my mind about what i would love to see roms and themes become, then perhaps you should consider keeping your comments to yourselves. BUT, this being a public forum, and i am no moderator, i cannot make anyone not post here, nor what they post about, so with that i will only ask that you not just post for the sake of singling out a line of any of my posts to make a snide comment on how its up to me/i need to design it/being too hard on devs ruining their commitment/etc etc. If we werent hard on engineers/developers/programmers in world-wide view considering the design of everything we use today, we wouldnt be in possession of the technological breakthroughs that we have now. We would all still have bag phones. Model A fords, if even that, we would still be riding horses....might i even be bold enough to state we wouldnt even be out of the stone age if it hadnt been for someone somewhere pushing those who build to do bigger and better things.
Please, use common sense people. Im simply issuing a challenge to devs/themers to not be constrained by our ideals. Again, to make what THEY want to make. Remember, they dont have to do this for us, so why cant they build what they want. And thats why i respect what they do.
agsded said:
"why reinvent the wheel?"
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
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Im not asking for a new wheel, only a more efficient one. Thats such an over-cliched term anyways and has no merit (in my view) If we never reinvented anything, we'd not be in the possession of these beauties of creation we have today. I bet someone told Henry Ford why reinvent the wheel when he said lets have a car that can be available to the common man. Do you think Ford would be the automotive supergiant they are now if he had followed that advice? Do you think we would have Windows OS, Mac, or any of the other available computing OS's that we have now would be available now if the designers had followed your sage advice?
Please realize, im not bashing you, any of you, im not going to stoop that low. We are all adults here, and even some teenagers, whom i hope utilize that powerful muscle between their ears before they use their fingers, so why must we criticize? Why cant we , as so eloquently put in an earlier post, come together as a community and share ideas.
Just saying.
Yeah, but see all those things you mentioned arent revolutionary leaps of accomplishment, but simply evolution of existing products... refinements..
Henry Ford simply took the concepts of mass production, the assembly line, and interchangeable parts, and applied them to the automotive field. He didn't invent something new, he "engineered" something better from what was already there. He made cars more affordable, available, and easier to repair.
Technology is no different... mechanical switches to electric switches to vacuum tubes to transistors to integrated circuits, they are just extensions of what's there.
We don't still use carburetors because fuel injection is more efficient, largely because it can meter the fuel more precisely, especially at idle. But..the first fuel injection setups were just electronic carburetors, with the old central port fuel injection systems... even the newer ones still do the same thing, just more precisely...
I'd love a smartphone that could read my thoughts and had a neural interface with zero lag. Is it coming.... who knows....is it a reinvention... no, just another step in between a previous one and the next.
Something to ponder.... at the core of all operating systems is basic math.
Add one value to another and put the result here. Stick the right combo of values in the right set of registers and a pixel lights up on the screen. That's the way machine language works...so all software is an evolution of ones and zeros...
A switch is on, 1 a switch is off, 0... so basically computers are just a big ginormous pile of light switches, lol..
Anyways.... I agree, I'd live to see some real neat stuff for android, but at some point, you'd have to throw out android to make it radically different, and then it would just be yet ANOTHER attempt at a mobile os to further fragment things....instead of moving forward, we'd be moving sideways....not as bad as moving backwards, but not progress either....
That's
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Just curious, but... How do you know devs aren't creating what they want? Why would they waste time building something that they didn't want to do?
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
agsded said:
....instead of moving forward, we'd be moving sideways....not as bad as moving backwards, but not progress either....
That's
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
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I totally agree with you, but yet i also disagree. Which isnt a bad thing, at least we are agreeing to disagree i suppose lol But the point still stands. Why....why must we make do with what we have? Why not bring forth innovation? Is that not how progress is made? Im not looking for an overnight change in the way roms are designed. I only asking that the devs make it a challenge for themselves. Make something they havent done before. Im just winging this without black and white information, but how do we know that manufacturers dont look at these roms for their inspiration?
I'm only asking for that one ambitious dev who needs a challenge to strive for that next peg. The next rung on the ladder of progress. Yes Henry Ford didnt invent the automobile, but with his bringing the assembly line to his own needs he created something huge. Thats what im hoping devs will do for android. When we tire of out normal phone interfaces, to whom do we turn? Yes. thats right, these hard working devs. A vast majority of them create wonders with whats available to them. Others simply tweak and twist certain aspects to their own taste.
A phone that reads out thoughts with a neural interface with zero lag would indeed be a nice addition, but im certain 10 years down the road such a thing may come to be, but thats 10 years from now, if not more. Don't sell yourself short however, all ideas are welcome to me and to this thread. Its odd though, that with all the posts here i seem to be the only one who has put idea to page.
And to mr kevin gossett, How do we know they ARE. We dont. Its as simple as that. All that we can do is hope that there is a dev or 2 or even 3 out there that are willing to bring forth the new age of roms. We turn to these men and women because we are bored with our phones stock rom/theme, so why must the devs and us as end users together suffer the same style in the aftermarket themes and roms? Again not bashing devs here, just stating my opinion, that they need to make something that they love. there WILL be end users out there that will use their roms/themes. I still think some of you are missing my point with all of this, and instead strive to create some echelon of conflict purely for conflicts sake.
View my thread and posts as possible inspiration for the future. Not a bashing, or flaming of those who design for us. The DEVS create the roms, but the devs didnt design what they wanted to see, instead what we wanted to see. And i would love to see that reversed. The DEVS create what THEY want to see, and we use whatever we find to our tastes.
my head hurts
I think I understand what the OP is saying... But at the same time I kind of understand the other side of the fence. Coding is hard, and you must be very precise, and most of these guys are doing it for free. But I know what jdk is meaning....
I think he feels that the devs are limited in what they can create because they are branching off of other works and what people like. I think he wants to see what crazy ass stuff devs can come up with. he wants their creativities to explode all over his face. He wants to see what people can imagine and create. There's nothing wrong with that, as long as he understands the devs, that they have lives, they do this for free, and its hard work, which I think he does understand. I think he's just trying to inspire some folk.
Please stop derailing development threads, it really is getting out of hand. Instead of letting moderators step in, how about policing ourselves? If you don't have anything good to say, then don't say anything. If you take ownership to the matter, then settle it in private channels. This is only hindering people learning the inner workings of android and roms.
If one person creates rom A, built from source (obviously referring to aosp roms). Chances are rom A is using work done by other individuals in the community to achieve a certain goal. This is called an Open Source Community. So rom B comes in and uses A as a base. This is great, because I've found that when this occurs, bugs get squashed much quicker. No matter the skills of the user/developer, they have the ability to find some of the smallest issues that cause the biggest bugs. Even if rom B only has little things like the wifi scan interval changed, or added/subtracted APK's. The only thing necessary here, is a little bit of credit and submitting/notifying the original author of bug fixes and/or enhancements. When this occurs, there is no "he did this" "he got this working first" bull. I could go on forever on proper etiquette, but that's not my point. Let's let everyone do their thing, and if there is a real issue that needs to be addressed, handle it in a classy manner.
Thanks for your time, and i apologize in advance to moderators if this thread gets out of hand, feel free to remove it.
Well said, now if people will only start holding back their words.
Sounds good. Credit where credit is due. No one develops completely on their own (for the most part). Even the CM branch is a "team". When knowledgeable people work together (and acknowledge the source of their work) we all win, and the builds get better.
This model benefits all.
I know, as the user of a now ancient device, I would love to see development NOT come to a halt, or be pushed off to the unfindable fringes.
Sent from my PC36100 using xda premium
I'm very grateful for all the people out there who put their time and effort into making my device better and enjoyable....essentially saving me money....and ask for very little in return. I believe Google has set and shown the example that when people share ideas and work....a product can improve and evolve much faster. Thanks to everybody out there who participates and believes in these principles, and I look forward to your future endeavours.
Sent from my OG SuperEvo using Tapatalk
Well said, Drew! Awesome
Yup Yup. Btw I agree with what you said in the other thread about not completely agreeing with the xda rule in regards to having to gain permission to use peoples work. Only thing that should be req is proper notation in the OP that its being used and that's it. Imho.
It gets real sad around here when people fight over work and even more so when they do so in public channels. Happened in the 3D section awhile ago and was redic.
If you did something and you don't see credit in an OP for it It's simple, PM the user to discuss it and if that doesn't work PM a mod to help mediate the dispute. NEVER should it be discussed in public threads!
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA App
Well written Mr Drew. I wouldn't worry about those who mess things for everyone else, they surely have nothing better to do.
Keep up the solid work.
Thanks.
That was perfect. Not only are you a tremendous developer, but a very wise person as well. Thank you for taking the time out to write this up. And thank you and everyone else for sharing your/their knowledge.
It would be really nice if there was a list where everything that's gotten done/fixed giving credit to that particular person. Or perhaps when you work off of someone else's work, you bring all of the credits with you. That way as it moves along the credits will stay with that particular version of rom.
By the way, preview7 is running great.
Thanks again,
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
Let's not forget about donating to the devs of which you use their hard work. Yes this stuff is free, but hours and hours go into the smallest things sometimes. Even if everyone donated 1 dollar to the dev(s)of the Rom or whatever you use, you're still making a difference. Let's show each other some respect here. Not just to other devs, but to other users also
I wrote this in the other thread but it applies here too. A huge thanks to all who are truly interested in moving forward and improving the Evo experience. And +1 on donating to the devs, all of the devs.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=22234151&postcount=45
Good post drewizzle
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tommytomatoe said:
Good post drewizzle
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+1 well stated
Well, everyone should just place nice in the sand box, end of story. Development will get back on it's steady crawl.
Guys,
First of all this is not aimed at anyone in particular... it's for all to read.
It's obvious that something is going on in the Dev section concerning the Sense 6 roms ported from the M8..... I have no idea what it is and I have no wish to know.
However when these things kick off as they do from time to time it is not Developers or Contributors that are affected.... it's us, the users of the roms etc. XDA is supposed to be a community and is supposed to be about sharing so isn't it time that everybody shares their stuff... there are enough users out there for all of your work to be enjoyed and appreciated.
Please guys, let's all behave as a community and give all a chance to enjoy the many varied and good things that you Devs and Contributors give to us.
Thank you.
rider5512 said:
Guys,
First of all this is not aimed at anyone in particular... it's for all to read.
It's obvious that something is going on in the Dev section concerning the Sense 6 roms ported from the M8..... I have no idea what it is and I have no wish to know.
However when these things kick off as they do from time to time it is not Developers or Contributors that are affected.... it's us, the users of the roms etc. XDA is supposed to be a community and is supposed to be about sharing so isn't it time that everybody shares their stuff... there are enough users out there for all of your work to be enjoyed and appreciated.
Please guys, let's all behave as a community and give all a chance to enjoy the many varied and good things that you Devs and Contributors give to us.
Thank you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is what happens when people are more worried about their Ego then anything else. Nothing we can do about it. As developers are allowed to keep their own work to themselves and not share it with others. This is the reason many refuse to use OEM based roms or prefer to take the base rom and make their own for personal use.
Ill be honest. This is the main reason I dropped Sense and am on my last OEM-non-nexus device.
Nothing can really be done about it.
zelendel said:
Nothing can really be done about it.
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Click to collapse
I fear you are right but I felt something needs to be said as this keeps happening.
rider5512 said:
Guys,
First of all this is not aimed at anyone in particular... it's for all to read.
It's obvious that something is going on in the Dev section concerning the Sense 6 roms ported from the M8..... I have no idea what it is and I have no wish to know.
However when these things kick off as they do from time to time it is not Developers or Contributors that are affected.... it's us, the users of the roms etc. XDA is supposed to be a community and is supposed to be about sharing so isn't it time that everybody shares their stuff... there are enough users out there for all of your work to be enjoyed and appreciated.
Please guys, let's all behave as a community and give all a chance to enjoy the many varied and good things that you Devs and Contributors give to us.
Thank you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately Sense "Development" has left the "From us to you" level in many areas since quite some time and has reached a stage where all that counts is "I am out earlier with my rom", " I have more users", "My thread has more posts", "My p.... is longer". Ok, not the last, but you get the point.
So, as long as this does not change again, there is no such thing as a "Dev-community" in Sense development.
Sad as it may be, from time to time this kind of development has unavoidable consequences and the users are sometimes suffering from "collateral damage". That's the bitter truth and could only be changed by a change of attitude by some devs.
Just my 2cts.
rider5512 said:
I fear you are right but I felt something needs to be said as this keeps happening.
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And it will as long as people keep needing an ego boost. That is all it is. They want to say they have the best, most mods, fastest, ect rom.
And to be honest. There is nothing done to OEM roms that are really that impressive. If they wanted to HTC could come in and stop all of them in one shot.
jotha said:
........ and could only be changed by a change of attitude by some devs.
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That was the reason for the post in the hope that it may make some think a little more.
rider5512 said:
That was the reason for the post in the hope that it may make some think a little more.
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I bet if we removed the option for donations all together. I bet things will change. hmmmm.......
zelendel said:
I bet if we removed the option for donations all together. I bet things will change. hmmmm.......
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hmmmm indeed !
zelendel said:
I bet if we removed the option for donations all together. I bet things will change. hmmmm.......
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Click to collapse
Yes, that is the root of all evil (in this context) imho. I could not agree more.
Unfortunately this has become the state of affairs. In the end its down to the individual devs if they share their work. I do see some great things happening in the way of development, its just a shame resources cant be pulled together, then something truly fantastic may emerge, But until people stop putting their ego in front of development progress and community spirit, nothing will change.
Its all about, hey look what we did, aint it cool. Rather than, lets work together as a community and make a difference.
original_ganjaman said:
...... its just a shame resources cant be pulled together, then something truly fantastic may emerge
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We can only hope but who knows... perhaps one day !
zelendel said:
I bet if we removed the option for donations all together. I bet things will change. hmmmm.......
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I honestly wish this would happen... XDA should not be about money, we all agree here that that attitude towards development is pretty much unwanted here.
rider5512 said:
We can only hope but who knows... perhaps one day !
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I hate to say it but those days have come and gone. XDA used to be about sharing information and knowledge. Now it is a ego trip. Sad really.
Bat cave One
zelendel said:
I hate to say it but those days have come and gone. XDA used to be about sharing information and knowledge. Now it is a ego trip. Sad really.
Bat cave One
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Ow well, i hope you realize there ARE still devs out there that share the love buddy.
Its just few bad apples, (whats in the name huh) that spoils the whole barrel.....
I gotta chime in here with my .98 cents worth.
It's not just some stuff at xda. We're talking about innovation in all of tech being affected by a particular spirit.
Think about it. Apple has 147 billion dollars in unused capital but they won't make it happen as far as getting swipe gestures on their ios keyboard.
Android has so many attitude problems as well. You can get one device and it has certain strengths and certain flaws. Then a different device will have the things that are currently missing in your device, but it will be lacking the good things your current device already has.
Things like planned obsolescence, data caps, expensive smartphones with faulty displays, over heated batteries, on and on and on.
Whether it be Apple, msoft, or Google...none realize that they're about to kill the golden goose.
Some of us will just throw up our hands and say " to hell with you all" , and just hang on to whatever device we currently have for much longer than we'd like to. Because, just as soon as you upgrade, there's a slightly newer and better spec-bump version.
Unfortunately, Camera has stopped.
Whiskey103 said:
Ow well, i hope you realize there ARE still devs out there that share the love buddy.
Its just few bad apples, (whats in the name huh) that spoils the whole barrel.....
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I do whiskey. I do. That's why I still only use aosp based stuff but even some there like to keep knowledge in house.
Bat cave
I love that you started this thread OP Maybe some folks will realize their ways and change.
Sent from my HTC One M8 using xda app-developers app
Whiskey103 said:
Ow well, i hope you realize there ARE still devs out there that share the love buddy.
Its just few bad apples, (whats in the name huh) that spoils the whole barrel.....
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zelendel said:
I do whiskey. I do. That's why I still only use aosp based stuff but even some there like to keep knowledge in house.
Bat cave
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And it's not new, nor confined to Sense. I remember when I made skins for MobileShell on Windows Mobile there were guys who refused to share basic knowledge just to have a headstart. It was simple xml, no high-end coding, so nothing that would earn you fame and fortune. And that was in 2008 or so...
It's just an ego thing and it will always be here. So the limits have to be set from time to time obviously to keep things stright and under control.
In my opinion there is an issue with "credit" and "permission"...example, if a developer ports a ROM over from another device, well done. But does that mean the developer owns that port, to me, no, because it's still HTC files used to get that port working. Should it be required to ask for permission to use that port? NO. However, it should be required to CREDIT the person who got the port working. But asking permission makes it seem as if you own something, which you don't. This is the problem I see. Permission should not be required on XDA at all, only a requirement to credit someone. If they are expecting permission, they should take their stuff off XDA, and go elsewhere, because I know for a fact that none of the developers asked HTC if they could use M8 files to create an M7 port, and I'm sure HTC doesn't care, but for some reason these developers care way too much.
Sent from my HTC One_M8 using xda app-developers app
troby86 said:
In my opinion there is an issue with "credit" and "permission"...example, if a developer ports a ROM over from another device, well done. But does that mean the developer owns that port, to me, no, because it's still HTC files used to get that port working. Should it be required to ask for permission to use that port? NO. However, it should be required to CREDIT the person who got the port working. But asking permission makes it seem as if you own something, which you don't. This is the problem I see. Permission should not be required on XDA at all, only a requirement to credit someone. If they are expecting permission, they should take their stuff off XDA, and go elsewhere, because I know for a fact that none of the developers asked HTC if they could use M8 files to create an M7 port, and I'm sure HTC doesn't care, but for some reason these developers care way too much.
Sent from my HTC One_M8 using xda app-developers app
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I cant really agree with this. First off, asking permission is polite, its the reaction to that request that is the issue. If the request is reasonable and for the benefit of the community, i would like to think any devoted member/dev would be willing to share the knowledge. Chances are, that dev picked up a lot of knowledge from this very forum beforehand, so not to share prevents this circle of knowledge. Credit, is just a given.
I also have to say your simplified way of "porting" is a bit disagreeable. Some of these guys put many hours of work into their ROMs, so to say all that should be dismissed due to the original code being that of HTC, is a little unfair. It sounds contradictory, so...
We have 2 issues:
1 - Free sharing of work
2 - The protection of devs who have put hours of work into a project and wish to keep it "exclusive"
Both have to be considered, imho
Its a matter of balance, one with the rules (that i think we have) and the other with attitude.
As Zel said, HTC could pull the plug at any time. Making this a non issue.