The thought popped up in my head this morning. I remembered Eugene, the developer of the Macnut ROM, who no longer supported XDA. Then another dev, jellette, that quit for reasons I can't quite understand. Who's to blame for these developers quitting the scene, or only providing ROMs on other sites?
I'm a 16 year old high school student in San Francisco. I've been lurking the forums ever since I got my Vibrant and my friend directed me here. I'm not at all new to hacks like these, I've been participating in communities and actions like these since I was 12. I never found a reason to become closely connected within this community, though. It's not a small group, it's a much larger one, and I don't have any place to fit in. This is one of my first posts, and it's one that I feel I need to share with the community: my thoughts and beliefs on the whole situation about devs that no longer support XDA or flat out quit.
Let's cover some ground first:
These devs are not paid. They make these ROMs, custom kernels, and other mods in their spare time. The only money they make off these ROMs comes from donations, and some devs don't ask for donations anyway.
The users are not paying for this work. The users don't need to give feedback, however they are permitted and allowed to comment, criticize, or help the developers in any way.
The trade made here is obviously unfair: give nothing, get something. In many cases, get a great piece of work for your phone that will make it blazing fast and give it features and functionality unheard of to other users of the same phone. The devs are ok with this though, as they freely release their work without a price tag.
However, there are some things devs are not ok with. I can't speak for each and every single developer, but having once done development in my own time as well, I can say the one thing that really aggravates all developers, and all people even, is when your work goes unnoticed, or worse yet, gets disrespected. When some bombarding, ignorant user comes along and rips apart your hard work, what are you to do? "This ROM is utterly horrible, you should've put more work into it before releasing this paperweight." Maybe a bit over the top, but it gets the point across, and it's from this that a developer will most likely quit XDA as he sees fit.
So what can we say about the users, the freeloaders? Some decency is expected of all of us, basically. That's the lesson every user should know: respect those that give you what you get. They're not robots that work endlessly with nothing better to do. These are people, hard working men and women who spend hours on end making software for you. Give them your respect. Constructive criticism is nice, but never go so far as to demote them as a person. If you want their respect, you must give them respect. Make them feel welcome and they will continue to work for the entire community. It's simple, human nature.
As for developers, are they in the right place to quit under these grounds? There is no set ground for quitting. Each person sees fit at what time he or she should quit working, in any case: as a dev, as an employee, as anyone. People need to know their limits, and they do know their limits. As a free working developer, they have a lot more liberty in deciding when they want to stop working for the community. Even someone who didn't feel accused or demoted could leave for no reason and it wouldn't affect them as much as if they had left their full-time paying job. This is not a source of revenue, it's not a source of anything, in fact.
One thing devs should know, and this is coming straight from me, is that as someone who releases work on the forums, your name will be known, and it's wise that you build a public image for yourself. Quitting without reason, without a post to describe your feelings, to express concerns or thoughts on the community or whatever else you'd like to mention, does not help build a good public image. You are at liberty to do as you please, that's your free choice, but people will judge you based on your actions. Throwing yourself into a position as such, as a chef, comes with more than just giving out work. It comes with the comments users will give you. It's good to be able to politically conduct yourself, to create a good public image, which will ultimately help you avoid the negative comments the public makes.
In conclusion:
Users: Be respectful, have some common decency. This is for all of us, not just those who don't get it. It's a rule we should all know. Developers are humans, just like us. Respect them as such.
Developers/chefs: You are free to do what you like. Quit as you please, continue as you please, no one will stop you. It is, however, important to make a good public image. Not necessary, but important. Conduct yourself in a political manner, because us users see you as a strong force, not just as a person. Be ready to make a good public image.
I want to know your thoughts on this. I feel it's important that this ground is covered, and that we come to a general consensus on this. The more you know, the better off you are. The more we all know, the better off we will all be.
if only there were more users like you.
I'm tired of these little immature kids making these hardworking devs leave the forum.
xriderx66 said:
if only there were more users like you.
I'm tired of these little immature kids making these hardworking devs leave the forum.
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I second that...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
I also think that those developing roms need to understand that a lot of members are teenagers that do not what respect is. I myself am 30yrs old and I know that there are more members that are much younger and very childish. The devs need to not take it out on the entire forum. There are more members that appreciate their work than there are that do not.
I agree with you 100% in partucular regarding the users.
I came to this forum looking for support, trying to get the GPS working on my Vibrant.
Before I posted or did anything I read many threads and researched what it meant to use Odin and to root the phone and flash a rom and to recover from a problem before I even started anything. When I did I was fully aware that I and I alone, was responsible for anything that happened to my phone. I am continually amazed at how some people jump in, without a clue as to what they are doing, then seem to try to blame the developers for their problems. Then you have the group who complain about colors or a boot animation or a "missing" app on a rom they got for free. Simply amazing the entitlement people have over something that someone puts out there for them to try to improve their phone for free.
I can understand how the devs could get fed up with these sorts of actions. It can take a pretty thick skin to deal with all the stuff I see going on here.
It is like a preschool in here...just get used to it.
Life will go on, and someone will always be making roms--herds are pathetic, individuals are lost inside said herds. Keep your ears open and your mouth shut.
My $0.02
No one but the Dev can pull their ROMs and leave. We all take criticism in life. Some run, some brush it off.
ScooterG said:
No one but the Dev can pull their ROMs and leave. We all take criticism in life. Some run, some brush it off.
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I agree to a point, just if anyone runs off Master I'm forming a mob with pitchforks and torches...
I have plenty of respect for the few guys who make a few useful programs, and I don't think I've ever bashed a dev's work openly. But:
ScooterG said:
No one but the Dev can pull their ROMs and leave. We all take criticism in life. Some run, some brush it off.
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/Twerd.
Gotta give respect to receive, and some devs just think they are God's gift to Captain Taco. It's the Internet - no one gets respect on the 'tubes. Who gives a ****. The growing up really neds to happen on the part of most of these "I'm pouty b/c someone said something crass about some weekend work I did" "developers."
Drewstein said:
I agree to a point, just if anyone runs off Master I'm forming a mob with pitchforks and torches...
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McMaster should shrink his huge sig. It's a symptom of my point: get over your self importance. There are (good) forums on the 'Net that enforce a 5-line or 100px tall rule (vs. his 300px +).
Again, not bashing the work, just the attitude, as presented.
-bZj
Agree ...........great post clear concise and to the point. Funny, that a 16 year old can articulate the basics of good behavior that most in here do not practice. I do not blame a lot of the devs leaving, people rag on their work give nothing but complaints..... as if they have the skill (yeah right).People will eagerly wait 10 min in a Starbucks line, pay 5.00 for a coffee and never donate to the dev, XDA or anything........then complain when the custom rom they got for free doesn't work the WAY they like or want......... talk about selfish irony...........
Great post !! kevipapo1 (from a guy old enough to be your grandpa )
i agree with it. people need to remember that without dev. we would all be running stock
If master leaves I'll suicide.
I hope ur reading this, master
Unfortunately this is the interwebz and this is has its been in any android forum I've ventured through. As you are young, but yet seem to be fairly wise, I say to you "welcome to the world my friend!"
Very good post.
Most criticism is from lack of knowledge/education. People don't understand how difficult it is to develop a ROM. So they criticise what they don't understand because it inconveniences them.
However, I will disagree somewhat with developer criticism. Although, I don't agree with the way Master handled the situation, I can relate.
I believe it is very important for us to realize that ROM developers are not public figures. They have the freedom to stop and start as they please. Their passion is development, after all, not public relations.
Kudos OP. Excellent post!
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
I just want to say thanks to all Developers here at XDA. Without you and your ROMS or tweaks i wouldn't have the great phone i have today that i spent my hard earned money on, and to the immature people if something doesn't work right on a ROM insted of being an ASS!!! and saying how crappy it is say whats wrong and they will fix it they have for me.
Again thanks to all who have helped you don't even know me but you all are ready to help at anytime day or night.
GARY
I personally am 15 and have been in xda since 13
I appreciate the devs for all their work if it wasn't for them i would have killed myself with many frustrations of a stock vibrant
I hate that some are immature and that some get really irritating i understand that some are new but some just get on nerves.
I wish eugene came back because he was.one of the first devs here
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
This is a great post & I echo the op's sentiments. This forum and the devs that contribute to it are a phenomenal resource to all of us and deserve to be treated with respect as we all do. The real shame is that a 16 yr old realizes this more than most of us adults (some of which are in name only). I've been in these forums for only a short time and the amount of immaturity, cynacism and deconstructive criticism I have seen is truly apalling and frankly I'm suprised more haven't bailed. I guess the Golden Rule isn't important when you've got the anonymity of the internet.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
Lethal_NFS said:
I also think that those developing roms need to understand that a lot of members are teenagers that do not what respect is. I myself am 30yrs old and I know that there are more members that are much younger and very childish. The devs need to not take it out on the entire forum. There are more members that appreciate their work than there are that do not.
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Just because someone is childish does NOT mean that they are a child.
I've seen many adults that throw a tantrum worse than a 5 year old and many 5 year olds who act like they're going on 30.
Likely their age has nothing to do with it & its just a reflection of their random genetics and/or crappy parenting.
down8 said:
McMaster should shrink his huge sig. It's a symptom of my point: get over your self importance. There are (good) forums on the 'Net that enforce a 5-line or 100px tall rule (vs. his 300px +).
Again, not bashing the work, just the attitude, as presented.
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If its an issue, then xda should make a max image/sig size (like you mentioned other sites do). That simple.
Most of his signature tells you to search & read the XDA rules before posting, not really bad advice & since he has to answer questions from many people who don't do either, I can't really blame him.
It would be a LOT more aesthetically pleasing if it were text only, but since XDA allows it, I don't really have a problem with it.
Most of the devs have developed a bit of an attitude (I've seen it from Eugene, SomBionix, Master, and a few others) because of the crap they have to deal with & XDA not enforcing their own rules (this is supposed to have changed after the town hall meeting).
i have been on xda since 2005, left came back etc etc, i do minor edits and coding here and there for myself because i dont have the time like these other people. but honestly most people need to get over themselves. this is a strong community and will live on without you. that said this community has made some people millionaires and others just brats who want the limelight. the idea behind this site is to take the software into our own hands. its us vs. corporations. if devs want to leave cool stfu about it and go but keep in mind that unless you have a contributed to the community dont complain about someones work. devs know what come when you start producing products. its the same that companys deal with. most leave because they get their feelings hurt. its not like people are stalking you and breaking your kneecaps because angry birds wouldnt play during their lunchbreak. ignore the negative and stay or wine and leave. but this place or any place wont change. the more successful you get the harder your skin must be
About me and why it all got under my skin.
James / jellette / Heathen
39 year old, married, father of 3
<Edited out line, too personal>
I look around and see Darky, Doc, Jim, Eugene, TW and everyone else doing Gingerbread clones - and they aren't called "Copy Cat" - but when I do it I am. That makes a guy pretty darn mad.
I set out to do the latest Rom 100% from scratch without drawing from the work of any existing Rom specifically because of my relationship with TW. The takers out there have no idea how much work goes into doing that.
Here was and continues to be the process with PepperKake.
1. Download the JL5 Rom from samfirmware.com
2. Odin to get a feel for the new firmware.
3. Rip the files from factoryfs.rfs
4. Release the first flashable Odexed recovery safe JL5 by 30 minutes
5. Deodex the apps and jars - on this build I was unsuccessful deodexing swype and I used krylon360's swype and credited him for that.
6. Download the Nexus S dump
7. Pull all of the images I needed out of framework-res.apk and SystemUi.apk and the original bootanimation.zip and the icon out of every matching Gingerbread app
8. Carefully build the theme, re-mod the Gingerbread Launcher and create the faux crt shutdown sequence.
9. Rip the gps files from the Nexus S dump including permissions for gps and maps and restructure JL5 to call these files
10. Replace with 3E recovery, ensure the sdcard mounts, etc..
11. Flash and fix 219 times until it is 99% bug free and ready for an Alpha release.
As you can see, this is not a weekend cooked rom as put earlier in the thread.
I update my roms usually once a day until it is complete, I fulfill requests for kernel flash packs for the rom, etc..
I did get pretty angry and pulled my roms - I later replaced the most recent rom. I also set up my website as a backup, which is quickly becoming my primary release source. I will stay around xda though like it or not.
On those who have followed me to the new site in support: Thank you.
Finally, a very short word on TW.
I have nothing but respect for these guys. I learned everything from them.
And that is my word on this.
Related
First I'm not a mediator mod or any of that, but people we are acting like children.
1. Why are u here?
The devs on this forum are taking personal time! We as community members are not ENTITLED to ROMS. They do this for the love of the platform, so respect that.
2. This is not the Sprint forum.
Again, this forum does not imply or state that EVERYTHING is going to work with whatever ROM u choose. So really, why ***** or hate? Really?
3. What can u add?
Nobody expects anyone to be the cdma hero "hero". Everyone should know they lane and stay in it. Report bugs or dev, its that simple
I don't have the highest post count and I may be out of line but I have been studying/learning here since it was questionable if there would be a sprint hero forum. Let's not **** it up by driving away the same folks that got us here. I know that from past comments this will probably get locked, but if we don't as a whole respect more what's going on we have a chance of loosing it.
Respect to all the devs on here and the work they do, for US!
+1,000,000 Agreed,it's sad when people can't even thank someone without it turning into as bunch of un-needed bull$#17.Just be positive people,some good things are happening,don't let these people ruin things.
I don't post much here anymore, because of some personal reasons with regards to this forum. I still lurk a lot, however, and I just don't see where all the straight-up hate and animosity these posts such as yours are mentioning. I tend to avoid the 80-page threads because they are mostly filled with junk, is it in there?
Perhaps I should check them out.
The hate and animosity and watering down of this subforum with too many useless posts is why I haven't released anything since December. I'm working on a new rom for myself, and I'm thinking less and less like I might want to actually release it here. Last thing I feel like dealing with are a bunch of whiny people who aren't happy with me or my work unless it makes their phone do what THEY want. Where's the reward for devs? Don't anyone even bother mentioning donations.
Support that!
dude props for this! good going. And I agree with you 1000%
its no crime to show thanks and respect to some one for their hard work. if deving was easy we would all be doing it.
obelisk79 said:
I don't post much here anymore, because of some personal reasons with regards to this forum. I still lurk a lot, however, and I just don't see where all the straight-up hate and animosity these posts such as yours are mentioning. I tend to avoid the 80-page threads because they are mostly filled with junk, is it in there?
Perhaps I should check them out.
The hate and animosity and watering down of this subforum with too many useless posts is why I haven't released anything since December. I'm working on a new rom for myself, and I'm thinking less and less like I might want to actually release it here. Last thing I feel like dealing with are a bunch of whiny people who aren't happy with me or my work unless it makes their phone do what THEY want. Where's the reward for devs? Don't anyone even bother mentioning donations.
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This is exactly why we should respect the devs... pretty soon all of them will be gone.
You beat me to it ... but I don't really care.
I think we just got too amped up with all the 2.1 excitement and started trying to outdo oneanother instead of working together. Once the official 2.1 comes out, I think we will see a lot more collaboration to make it as good as possible. In the mean time, always five credit where it is due, and don't worry about who did what first, because it only benefits everybody. That's why our great devs are here: to help create a better device, not to profit or hoard secrets. This is the first real open source project I have been a part of, and I get excited just thinking about what the future has in store for us. Let's make it a great one!
Can we just please stop with these types of threads.
The way I look at it is like a car.
You buy the car, and you COULD just leave it at that. Some people like to mod their car and optimize it for maximum performance. Many people do not know how to do this, so they need to take it some someone who does know how, and the mechanic for damn sure isnt going to do that *** for free. I think of our devs a mechanics, optimizing my phone for me because I have no idea how to develop to my phone. The difference here is that they are doing this **** for free. So what if they ask for a donation, bums on the street ask for "donations" for doing ***. We were going to get 2.1 for free one way or another at some point since we already had the car (Hero for you thick headed people), whether it be a whole 2 days after flipz released it to contributors, or when sprint/htc officially releases it at the rumored end of this month.
And be happy this isnt a car, because if it was not only would you HAVE to pay for the official update, but you would have to pay for the installation and optimization.
Taking a *** chill pill all those people who are too stingy to even donate 1 buck.
Don't make me say the f word and post an off color picture so this thread gets shut down
just playing mods. don't hurt me.
foxracr17 said:
the way i look at it is like a car.
You buy the car, and you could just leave it at that. Some people like to mod their car and optimize it for maximum performance. Many people do not know how to do this, so they need to take it some someone who does know how, and the mechanic for damn sure isnt going to do that **** for free. I think of our devs a mechanics, optimizing my phone for me because i have no idea how to develop to my phone. The difference here is that they are doing this **** for free. So what if they ask for a donation, bums on the street ask for "donations" for doing ****. We were going to get 2.1 for free one way or another at some point since we already had the car (hero for you thick headed people), whether it be a whole 2 days after flipz released it to contributors, or when sprint/htc officially releases it at the rumored end of this month.
And be happy this isnt a car, because if it was not only would you have to pay for the official update, but you would have to pay for the installation and optimization.
Taking a ****ing chill pill all those people who are too stingy to even donate 1 buck.
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this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! .
Tipharet said:
Can we just please stop with these types of threads.
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No kidding... I am pretty sick of hearing people explain to me why I should be grateful to the rom developers. Like saying "The devs on this forum are taking personal time!" is some enlightening way to look at it. Everyone knows that already. And it gets really old seeing people make threads like this in an effort to get brownie points around here. There are so many threads EXACTLY like this. You are pushing posts that actually have a use out of view for a lot of people.
Oh wait, I have a difference of opinion. Lets start another thread and label it disrespect to the development gods...
Thank you. And I mean that. Because of XDA and it's amazing devs, I have gotten more out of this phone than I ever imagined. I have never had a phone that could do so much and people here were always willing to help me with a problem. And that is wonderful. I am glad that I joined this forum. In fact, I look forward to checking it every day. lol I don't know a lot about Linux, Java, or coding, but I do however know a lot about photography. I am a professional. So, if anyone needs help that way, I am completely for helping...I mean, all of you have helped me...I'd like to return the favor.
-Ken
flexgrip said:
No kidding... I am pretty sick of hearing people explain to me why I should be grateful to the rom developers. Like saying "The devs on this forum are taking personal time!" is some enlightening way to look at it. Everyone knows that already. And it gets really old seeing people make threads like this in an effort to get brownie points around here. There are so many threads EXACTLY like this. You are pushing posts that actually have a use out of view for a lot of people.
Oh wait, I have a difference of opinion. Lets start another thread and label it disrespect to the development gods...
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Actually that wasn't my point at all. My point is threads like this do nothing but divert attention to them, it perpetuates the negativity. New users come in these threads and see this and "ask what I missed" then it gets started over and over again.
As soon as these threads die (yes I realize I bump when I reply) the drama will also follow. Donate, dont donate, dev, dont dev ( not really) but just treat each other like some one you would walk by on the street or have a conversation with while standing in a line.
Asking for your cake and eating it 2.
I dont post alot here as well due to personal issues here on the form (so many smarty pants people on here)
But if i see a rom that i like (or app) i give the dev his props and thank him for putting in hard work when he or she could of been doing something else not trying please us and make our phones better then the stock ones.
Not saying the next person have to do the same. But if i wasted 5hrs of my time. and your running around showing off with my work i would like some props.
This dont even have nothng to do with roms or dev so im sure its going to get closed down soon. You people are just wasting your time making these threads people going to do what they going to do.
It's true that these type of threads may seem senseless and get hijacked to negativity... but in the past, my experience is that when moderators and dev's get fed up enough the forum/site would become closed and open to invitation only type membership, i.e., PRIVATE ACCESS!
That scenario is both good and bad... "Good" if you're in the loop, but potentially "Bad" because you just might end up on the outside looking in with your nose pressed against the window! So PROPS it is...
I have come to XDA for a long time, joined only so I could post, and only recently began to do so. But, that said, it has been indispensable for the provision of knowledge and fixes for handsets that the manufacturers and or carriers are unable to do themselves... so again - PROPS it is... no reason to drag it down.
+++++1,000 thanks to the awesome work being done!
There are those who truly can never be pleased, yet, I think that ration is extremely small. So again, for something I would gladly pay for, but am not required to do, I offer the easiest thing, a gesture of THANKS!
RE: ▽▲ AXURA Vibrant Edition ▼△ Development Stopped.
First I'd like to say that was a punk move. Secondly, there's plenty of other great ROMs out there. I'm not sad, nor upset. I'm not going to kiss Master's ass. (I'm a software developer, I could take my own time to do this same ****) I'm also not going to flame or trash him (That'd be a waste of bandwidth and time).
The politics on these forums is ridiculous. You get something for free and then everyone *****es when things don't go their way. Devs take their personal time to provide you with something 'cool' or 'different' and you have a few select people ruining it for others. I don't 100% agree with 'Donating' to get 'early releases', but whatever. It is what it is. I'll roll with 2.0.6 AKA Axura Final until I get bored or something different catches my eye.
I'll admit, I really liked the theming done to it. I'm so sick of black and stupid ugly colors (I have a bit of a desiger background) that a lot of people call 'cool' or thinks 'looks great!'. And after searching for a ROM that didn't look like total ****, I actually considered getting involved in the theming community. We'll see.
Haters will hate.
I'm just taken away by this, I go out to eat with ole girl, come back and everything is stopped. I'm keeping 2.1 one for a while now, its destined to be a relic. But it is a damn good ROM, and skoal had to **** it up for everyone. I am sure he has recieved TONS of PMs from pissed off followers of Master, and rightfully so. However, I will not partake in anything like that.
I'm hoping this is just a phase that will blow over. Master came out of no where, it a place dominated by the "heavy hitters" and made a name for himself.
Good, mature post.
When somethings turns from being appreciated into being expected...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
I don't understand why a single leak is being blown so big.
How do you think we got the froyo release? ---(Leaked)
You dont see samsung *****ing and pouting about stopping development (which is minimal anyway).
I am running the captivate port for the 2.0 rom and hands down it is the fastest and most stable rom in our rom dev.
xtremekilla09 said:
I don't understand why a single leak is being blown so big.
How do you think we got the froyo release? ---(Leaked)
You dont see samsung *****ing and pouting about stopping development (which is minimal anyway).
I am running the captivate port for the 2.0 rom and hands down it is the fastest and most stable rom in our rom dev.
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Its not all WHAT was done, but what was SAID, and how it went down. Blatant disrespect.
xtremekilla09 said:
I don't understand why a single leak is being blown so big.
How do you think we got the froyo release? ---(Leaked)
You dont see samsung *****ing and pouting about stopping development (which is minimal anyway).
I am running the captivate port for the 2.0 rom and hands down it is the fastest and most stable rom in our rom dev.
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+1
When we try to stop the leaking of leaked roms then I think it's getting out of control.
I can fully appreciate Master +all the other devs for the work but the fact is, one person gets the rom early and Master calls foul... big deal. Get over it. I wonder how many leaked roms from other devs have fallen into Master's lap.
+1
couped said:
Good, mature post.
When somethings turns from being appreciated into being expected...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
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Exactly my thoughts.
razormy said:
+1
When we try to stop the leaking of leaked roms then I think it's getting out of control.
I can fully appreciate Master +all the other devs for the work but the fact is, one person gets the rom early and Master calls foul... big deal. Get over it. I wonder how many leaked roms from other devs have fallen into Master's lap.
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This is the first I've been involved with any ROM outside of the G1 realm (CyanogenMod) and I don't know of any other project where you can donate to get special treatment. Honestly, that's where the problem started. Dealing with money and VIP status. Cyanogen doesn't release anything until he's ready. Mainly so he can avoid the barrage of "X doesn't work, plz/fix/k/thx!". I also don't think if a few people get ZOMG v6.0.1.2-FINAL, that he'd be too upset.
There is a sense of quality control. You don't want a lot of people to get an early release to prevent the spamming of complaints. It's distracting and takes away from your project plan. If this was a real dev shop there'd be a bug tracking list and a handful of devs hacking away at their assigned tickets.
Overall, (both parties included, or and I guess the leaker too) it's a punk move. What are we? 12? (Sometimes I think we are! after all the bickering I read)
Meh... :|
It is a shame. While I wasn't going to donate to get a pre-release copy, I was going to donate after the final version was released assuming it worked fine as a thank you for his hard work (I had a few issues with 2.05 and was waiting before flashing again).
It is his right though, even if it is confusing when considering the circumstances of how these types of ROMs got started in the first place.
This forum is so crappy now..
everyone wants rewarded and begs for money
Master I thought was the worse...
icebrkr said:
This is the first I've been involved with any ROM outside of the G1 realm (CyanogenMod) and I don't know of any other project where you can donate to get special treatment. Honestly, that's where the problem started. Dealing with money and VIP status. Cyanogen doesn't release anything until he's ready. Mainly so he can avoid the barrage of "X doesn't work, plz/fix/k/thx!". I also don't think if a few people get ZOMG v6.0.1.2-FINAL, that he'd be too upset.
There is a sense of quality control. You don't want a lot of people to get an early release to prevent the spamming of complaints. It's distracting and takes away from your project plan. If this was a real dev shop there'd be a bug tracking list and a handful of devs hacking away at their assigned tickets.
Overall, (both parties included, or and I guess the leaker too) it's a punk move. What are we? 12? (Sometimes I think we are! after all the bickering I read)
Meh... :|
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Agreed. Thanks for this thread. I hated reading the last one because of all the nonsense. A new rom will come and the fools will be foolish.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
kingrat said:
This forum is so crappy now..
everyone wants rewarded and begs for money
Master I thought was the worse...
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Let's not trash talk or name names... ok?
problem with forums like this
The problem with forums like this is they break out something like this:
10% 12-18
40% 19-26
40% 27-45
10% 46-60+ (where I fall into)
So, since age and maturity is the problem (or lack of maturity) there is no way to regulate that, not in an open forum....we are just left to self regulation........and as such, it will always be imperfect.
What is important is to be respectful and mature in the treatment (doing what they ask) of each other. The leaked rom from one friend to another is not really the core issue...........it is the public proclamation "Hey I got over on you" that demonstrates both the lack of respect and lack of maturity. This adolescent behavior (which the guilty one thinks is cute) damages our experience in this forum or in other forums. A Shame really.......
This forum gets ridiculous full of ungrateful people it really ruins development of great phones, people start to think they deserve something that was given out of good faith to help them hence original 2.2 leak
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Lets see if I can say this without sounding rude... Fok master, do the **** your self, a lot of his **** is off leaked stuff and others work...
he should be happy someone wanted his **** that bad...
By the way donating for a early release isn't a donation, thats a payment..... Never using his rom again, imma go stock and make the rom myself, you all could to its simple....
EDIT: Hell I remember when Master was trying to over run BIONIX lol Dude was all in their business... Trying to side help their ****. Man common Master, This is a punk move, for this You will never get a second look from me... Peace man, Just needed them donations/ Payments huh
Not allowing people to distribute his ROM is a violation of the GPL. He may ask, but he has no basis to. He built a ROM based on pre-released code and Open Source code and has no valid position to stop the same. Sure, he can get pissy if people do, that is certainly his right, but the moment he makes it available to anyone that person clearly has the right to distribute it unless it has actual proprietary software on it.
The person asking was within their rights
The person who gave it out was within their rights
Master getting pissed and stopping further development for people exercising their rights is completely within his rights.
Life goes on, shame, I was waiting for 2.1, time to move on.
kingrat said:
This forum is so crappy now..
everyone wants rewarded and begs for money
Master I thought was the worse...
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I've seen you in Master's thread, you've contributed nothing but disrespect and you're part of the reason he closed his thread.
FYI, Master isn't discontinuing development. He is choosing not to share with XDA. Anyone that is interested in his work can still find it on his forum.
Seems a lot of Devs are keeping their work on their own sites. From what I've seen on this site in the last few weeks, I don't blame them.
I think it's messed up for those that paid for his roms now to get no support.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
First of all thanks for making this thread OP. I want to get a few things out here as well.
Very immature on the part of everyone involved. Seriously grow up and get on with it.
This donation stuff is nothing more than payment and that is right. But the payment isn't so much for the software as it is the help in putting it together and getting it all to play nice. Sure you could piece it all together yourself if you had enough free time it isn't THAT hard. Or like me if your time is more valuable you can sling homeboy <INSERT NAME HERE> $10 and have him put it together for you. I value my time greatly and I lead a very busy life so I am very happy paying someone $10 if it even saves 30 minutes of my day. I am highly skilled and do computer security work for a living so it has nothing to do with knowledge or ability.
So lets make that clear. You are donating for their time not the actual software itself. Some of these guys spend a ton of time on their ROMs and if I can get that for a piddly $10-$25 donation then I say that is a deal. And on top of that he even offers personalized support when this ROM doesn't work.
I don't think the issue here is requiring donations because if they didn't nobody would donate so that is only fair. And it is more than reasonable for them to try to get some reward for time and effort invested. Especially if they have a website to support!
jnutz said:
First of all thanks for making this thread OP. I want to get a few things out here as well.
Very immature on the part of everyone involved. Seriously grow up and get on with it.
This donation stuff is nothing more than payment and that is right. But the payment isn't so much for the software as it is the help in putting it together and getting it all to play nice. Sure you could piece it all together yourself if you had enough free time it isn't THAT hard. Or like me if your time is more valuable you can sling homeboy <INSERT NAME HERE> $10 and have him put it together for you. I value my time greatly and I lead a very busy life so I am very happy paying someone $10 if it even saves 30 minutes of my day. I am highly skilled and do computer security work for a living so it has nothing to do with knowledge or ability.
So lets make that clear. You are donating for their time not the actual software itself. Some of these guys spend a ton of time on their ROMs and if I can get that for a piddly $10-$25 donation then I say that is a deal. And on top of that he even offers personalized support when this ROM doesn't work.
I don't think the issue here is requiring donations because if they didn't nobody would donate so that is only fair. And it is more than reasonable for them to try to get some reward for time and effort invested. Especially if they have a website to support!
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I couldn't agree more.
This is becoming more and more common. Does it bother anybody else? I mean i dont lose sleep over it, but it kind of ruins the "community" feel and turns things into more of a business.
Donations are slowly turning into payments. This is precisely why i PERSONALLY never believed in the word donation in the development world, but lets not get into that debate.
I mean, if a dev/dev team is really good, im sure they get more than enough donations to fund their work, seeing as though im always seeing people on the forums talk about how theyll donate or how much they donated. I feel like whats happening is a dev/dev team starts out strong, and at first is just soaking up the notoriety amongst users, and understandably so. But as time goes, and their knowledge and popularity grows, they realize "hey, we could probably make some serious money off this" but then they realize that that just goes against the whole "doing it in your free time" or "doing what we love doing" concepts, so they insist on continuing to label it a "donation".
Let me be clear, I have absolutely no problem with a dev/dev team expecting money in order to grant access to something that is popular. Thats what a lot of governments are founded on, and these guys definitely deserve a little spending money for all of the smiles they put on peoples faces. I just dont like the abuse of the word "donation" that takes place. Why dont you just say "you have to pay for it"? Cause thats pretty much what is going down......
This isnt directed at anyone in particular, im simply curious to see how other people feel about it.
I feel the same way. Label it as payment/charge/etc and it will be good. Just dont use the word donation when only a donation gets the user access to an area of forums, kernels, roms, other, software. Its just not correct to do
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
It's incredibly silly. In many cases these people are charging for tweaking something that they didn't create and don't even have the rights to redistribute.
When you get right down to it, every ROM here that's built off of one of the leaked Froyo builds is in murky territory. Although parts of those leaks are GPL'd, there are tons of proprietary Samsung bits in there, and if Samsung felt like it they could slap everybody with a C&D on redistributing that stuff.
On the one hand, the people who distribute leaks (and tweaked ROMs based off of those leaks) for free are taking risks by doing so, and they're doing it to help the community. But on the other, you have people who take those leaks, apply their own tweaks to them, and then charge for the completed product. Those guys are basically profiting from the work that others took a risk in releasing to the public, which is ridiculous.
The best way to deal with it is to not simply not "donate" to people who pull such shenanigans.
JeremyNT said:
It's incredibly silly. In many cases these people are charging for tweaking something that they didn't create and don't even have the rights to redistribute.
When you get right down to it, every ROM here that's built off of one of the leaked Froyo builds is in murky territory. Although parts of those leaks are GPL'd, there are tons of proprietary Samsung bits in there, and if Samsung felt like it they could slap everybody with a C&D on redistributing that stuff.
On the one hand, the people who distribute leaks (and tweaked ROMs based off of those leaks) for free are taking risks by doing so, and they're doing it to help the community. But on the other, you have people who take those leaks, apply their own tweaks to them, and then charge for the completed product. Those guys are basically profiting from the work that others took a risk in releasing to the public, which is ridiculous.
The best way to deal with it is to not simply not "donate" to people who pull such shenanigans.
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Its very important that we dont mention names, to avoid flaming.....but i know exactly who you are talking about in particular....
The trend started with kingklick and everyone was all up in arms about it
But eventually the rest of the developers followed and now its OK for them and they accept it LOL hypocrites
This is another reason making my decision on NS much easier
Some real development will be underway i miss my N1 XDA support back in the day
Not that i dont appreciate what others have done here just most of it wasn't my cup of tea with exception of Eugene's work
But he left for a reasonable reason too much BS but his work is still freely available
It would be nice to hear a devs take on this but on the other hand this could just start a huge ordeal I understand what you guys are saying but I don't think this thread is going to help any development at all in fact it may even be counter productive the dev group is growing for the vibrant but I wouldn't say there are enough devs to start pissing people off and making them lose interest in xda all together if its not one thing its another nothing is free in this world eventually if you want something ahead of everyone else you gotta pony up the cash I went to a street fair once at the gate was a booth labeled donations they didn't deny me access when I refused to pay but I didn't enjoy the full access everyone else did when they received theyre wrist bands that got them free drinks your not paying to get in your paying for the cause and the work and the time it takes to create something that millions can enjoy ......i wouldn't get to butt hurt about it its the way of the world be it in day to day life forums or whatever else you think it applies to just my opinion we're all entitled to them I suppose
V5 custom vibrant
I take back allot of what i said apparently some are still releasing roms here
willsnews said:
It would be nice to hear a devs take on this but on the other hand this could just start a huge ordeal I understand what you guys are saying but I don't think this thread is going to help any development at all in fact it may even be counter productive the dev group is growing for the vibrant but I wouldn't say there are enough devs to start pissing people off and making them lose interest in xda all together if its not one thing its another nothing is free in this world
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In terms of my opinion, and what im trying to say, the paragraph in bold in the OP highlights my exact problem. I understand the concept and the need for devs to ask for money in whatever form, and i have absolutely no issue with that. But thats what they are, PAYMENTS. The only thing im questioning is why they insist on calling them donations. They are not donations when they are in the format of a transaction.
do·na·tion noun \dō-ˈnā-shən\
Definition of DONATION
: the act or an instance of donating: as a : the making of a gift especially to a charity or public institution b : a free contribution : gift
trans·ac·tion noun \tran-ˈzak-shən, tran(t)-ˈsak-\
Definition of TRANSACTION
1a : something transacted; especially : an exchange or transfer of goods, services, or funds <electronic transactions>
Theres just something about it that seems a bit unethical to me, almost like a bit of a marketing scam. "Donate" has a much friendlier, less threatening tone to it than "payment". Maybe theres a mindset in place that people will be more inclined to "donate" rather than "pay". Im just trying to figure out why they cant just call it like it is.
Regardless of how you may feel about it, theres no question that sometimes it feels like our "community" is faltering in favor of making money.
------------
In terms of the devs leaving XDA because of threads like this? i mean come on, we are talking about word definitions here...not insulting peoples families.....
Donation: ASK for CONTRIBUTIONS DURING development
Payment: REQUIRE COMPENSATION for COMPLETED product
I haven't ever seen a developer require payment for a complete product here on XDA. Some give early access to buggy ROMs and kernels, but that's it.
I don't. see anyone asking for a payment to get a full version of a rom. some gets it early when you donated but still the ones who didn't still gets the rom later. If that's how they want it to be then let it be.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Used to have "buy me a beer" links up at the most a couple of years ago. Seems there was more collaboration among devs like LucidRem who was super nice on G1 apps to SD. Was constantly being tweaked by seperate devs to get a better partition solution for example.
Don't blame me, blame my keyboard's autocorrection algorithm.
Any developer that does that is very clearly breaking the law. They could be very easily sued by anyone that cared.
Haha, even if that's true, which I don't think it is.....i think that would be taking things just a tad too far
Sent from my pocket rocket!
I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM WITH IT!!
I have been on with Android since Day 1. XDA and the developers who come here are the only reason I am so passionate about my phone and android. Without these 2 things a large part of my "hobby" would be severely hampered.
Developers do a tremendous amount for us. Can you imagine being on JI6 right now? I feel that they get barely anything in donations.... if this is a method for them to beta with a small group and reward those who support them/him, than I think they should take advanatage of that... and if it leads to developers earning a bit more than they would normally, awesome for them.
Cause you know what....
When developers are happy.... WE are all happy!!!
I mean come on, they release them to the public anyway.... is it okay for you to whine about not getting something sooner, that you had no part in creating/making.... what gives YOU the right???
PS, both R14 and Nero_Beta are very tasty... can't wait to get my hands on Axura 2.2 soon also.
maybe we should point out who the REAL developers are, and who are the wannabe's like people that take others work and just theme it.
Maybe just maybe then, these people that are rushing to hand over fists of money would donate to the people that actually put things out, and not the winzip blender wannabe's.
I "had" respect for some of these people until I first hand decompiled their rom to find out it wasn't there's at all. Adding a theme and transitions to Windows, does not make it mine.. how hard can that be to understand?
s15274n said:
I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM WITH IT!!I mean come on, they release them to the public anyway.... is it okay for you to whine about not getting something sooner, that you had no part in creating/making.... what gives YOU the right???.
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well i really hope youre not referring to me......i have a good paying a job and if i really wanted to pay for a ROM i would, but i dont......check my signature, i AM still runnning JI6, i dont use Macnut or Obsidian (neither ever required donations). I am speaking purely based on observation, not personal experience.
I mean if i was stuck stuck with JI6 forever, i wouldnt be thatdisappointed, because i have my phone setup exactly how i want it. Im not a fan of leaked ROMs, never have been. So i wont be waiting up all night waiting for Nero to go public either.
Please dont confuse me for one of those crybabies who just HAS to get their greedy fingers on the newest ROM right away just to be with the "in-crowd"...thats not what im about
s15274n said:
if this is a method for them to beta with a small group and reward those who support them/him, than I think they should take advanatage of that... and if it leads to developers earning a bit more than they would normally, awesome for them
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please dont misunderstand me, you have to read carefully what im trying to say....i have absolutely NO ISSUE with devs receiving money....none. they often deserve it. i just dont like the way the concept of "donating" is presented sometimes. The way you outlined it ^^ is a great way of wording the way it SHOULD be appraoched....unfortunately it isnt always approached that way, and THOSE are the instances im referring to in my OP
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_General_Public_License
This issue is that a custom ROM is built upon the work of thousands of other people that all licensed their work under the GPL because they wanted to it to be used that way. When someone takes their work and sells it, they are expressly misusing the work of others.
I think its fantastic that people are willing to put their time into developing ROMs, but at the same time it's very disrespectful and illegal to not follow the wishes of the people whose work the ROMs are built on. Ultimately, ROMs are very, very minor tweaks to what has been the result of almost twenty years and millions of man hours of work. If you want to be a part of that, that's great, but you have to play by the rules. After all, those rules are what made ROM development possible.
I can understand why they do it. Most people don't know how many hours go into just developing a theme let a long a full rom. So I understand them wanting to make some money for their time, but I also do agree with people who think they should not have a donation requirement to download, they should label it as a pay to download / theme or rom.
Here is an example of why I think devs do a required donation:
Here is the Nexus Theme I made (Did not ask for donations): http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=860198
To date this has had: 318 downloads
Amount of donations recieved: $0
Time Spent making it: 10+ Hrs
Here is the Frobuntu theme I made (Asked for Donations): http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=846285
To date this has had: 333 Downloads
Amount of donations recieved: $20
Time Spent Making it: 20+ hrs
So I can see why they do this. It makes a difference when you ask for the donations, but... again there should not be a required donation. That is called "selling" your rom/theme. They could do it the way I did the Frobuntu rom where I "Highly Suggested" a donation amount in big letters in the header of the post, but still gave it away to those who cannot pay.
Just my two cents. I would never flame or look down upon a dev for choosing to require a donation, that is their decision. I just choose not to do that myself.
No offense but most custom roms have a couple issues, needing to be fixed in the next release, meaning in a few days your gonna have to flash again, then the cycle continues, another bug so needing a new release... But the new release isn't faster, better or any cooler than the release before...lol
I'm on stock jk6 with my tweaks, my mods, and my setup, I was on customs for a bit, but all this donation crap has made me not wanting to try custom roms from anyone here, especially with all the drama :d
Needless to say I've never donated anything other than to xda itself..... I would never give my money to people just doing this for fun just like I do.... Donate to me then lol...
Anyways, id advise against donating to get a early release that ain't any better than the one before....lol
All I can say is suckeeeeers... Sorry but true, you have been hustled...
P.s. Anyone with a donate to me sign in their sig or whatever are completely retarded imo..... Lol
Just wanted to mention that all the users who attacked the devs have changed their tune since oem support is crap.
I've been holding my feeling against all the ignorant users who attacked the devs.
Thanks, that is all.
I'm not sure exactly what you were trying to say, but I got the gist of it.
And I agree.
That is all.
Translation:
All those who attacked the devs and coined them faildev.team are all of a sudden changing their tune now that they are speaking out about their projects, and OEM support has been so crappy.
Sad that people act like this.
I dont undestand why anyone would attack the developers. They aren't obligated to do anything, what they do is out of their own will and desire to better the device. If people have a problem with the phone then blame the manufacturer, not the people picking up after their mess.
Thanks for the translation...
FDro said:
I dont undestand why anyone would attack the developers. They aren't obligated to do anything, what they do is out of their own will and desire to better the device. If people have a problem with the phone then blame the manufacturer, not the people picking up after their mess.
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People demand instant gratification, and when they do not get it, they get ugly because they think for some reason, they are owed everything. Then there is the jealousy factor. Then there are those who think the devs withhold stuff from the community.
Then there are those who just attack me because they can.
The android community is young, and due to it being user friendly, it attracts young folks. Some just happen to be very immature. It *should* get better with time.
All this cool and dandy...
However developers also have some room to improve situation on the forums.
As adrynalyne pointed here there is a lot of childish behavior here. But developers, being leaders of community, not always behave as such.
I understand all sorts of emotions etc. I personally fall victim of them... Sorry if I hurted somebodys feelings.
But, I cannot stand some sort of elitism growing here.
Devs, please do not threat rest of the crowd as a bunch of morons! It will reflect positively on you as well.
If you have time to read all crappy posts on the forums and post aggravated responses, why do not spend this time typing meaningful response, holding grain of knowledge? If not, just stay calm and do not feed flame.
I do not want to repeat myself again and again. Just want to see some professionalism and respect in forums. It's not going to help moving to IRC, twitter or whatever. Root cause must be resolved.
Personally I was really impressed, more by anything else, of adrynalyne responding to that guy posted leak on other forums. Seriously! It was so different from how I percept him at forum. Like completely different person.
Respect!
While moving to irc may be unfortunate for some...it provides real time interaction for development. That simply is not possible on a forum. I work with a lot of people, and can fix problems 90% faster in real time.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
FDro said:
I dont undestand why anyone would attack the developers. They aren't obligated to do anything, what they do is out of their own will and desire to better the device. If people have a problem with the phone then blame the manufacturer, not the people picking up after their mess.
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I totally agree, the devs have my support in anything that they do, in whatever time frame they can make happen. Still better then the OEM time frame for an "update".
i hope the poster(s) who jumped all over the devs awhile back (i forget who) arent using anything that they have done recently and will avoid froyo/gb unless it comes from verizon/samsung
nitsuj17 said:
i hope the poster(s) who jumped all over the devs awhile back (i forget who) arent using anything that they have done recently and will avoid froyo/gb unless it comes from verizon/samsung
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agreed
10char
adrynalyne said:
While moving to irc may be unfortunate for some...it provides real time interaction for development. That simply is not possible on a forum. I work with a lot of people, and can fix problems 90% faster in real time.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
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And that's OK. Unfortunately it doesn't leave any footprints anywhere else.
That's why we same questions everyday... Technical or whatever. The commonality between them is that they do not have posted answers here.
I'm talking for myself only. Please do not take it personally in any way and keep in mind that my English is not my native language, so something might sound harsh.
Like I got an understanding that RIL is the problem, by I was unable to find any technical explanation why, what was done to overcome etc. So, I asked here... I even do not want to think about what resulted. And all I wanted to have some technical answer, and may be share some ideas, because I'm in the IT field as well...
Now, looks whats going on around. Punkkaos got it working at least partially. I understand that other people contributed, and work probably started not 10 minutes ago. But nonetheless RIL is in progress or already done.
How I suppose to feel about this? I'm mixed.
Fist of all I'm THANKFUL for you guys who put all time and efforts in this! I'm not going to use it immediately, but I like that secure feeling that phone will not become a paperweight in 6 months down the road. I definitely will enjoy results of this work in the close future.
But, I need to admit that I have another side, as well. It's not necessarily dark, just kind of human nature, I guess. It kind of disappointment...
I ask myself - well, if it is done and done pretty quickly, why it didn't happened before? Months ago...
Like, just an assumption, please do not take it personally.
I think what if devs took a quick look and it didn't worked immediately and samsung promised update soon. People think - OK, we will wait for update, not worth to spend time on it. But time goes and goes and there is no update or leak... And tension is going up and up. And all this is OK and well understood. But doesn't solve the problem.
Yesterday, I've created twitter account (yes, call me a dinosaur) and specifically asked punkkaos how he addressed the problem. And guess what, he answered as expected that RIL is basically adapted and he does call result translation between old and new one. This is exactly how I would personally approach this problem myself.
My point here is that aside of actual work to be done, it is not rocket science. It is well known approach in programming.
And now you can throw all rocks you have into me, saying that if I so smart ass why I do not do it myself. That, right.
But, I know my limits and I'm not going to wipe out one of my comps, partition it to install Linux, to install tool chain, sources etc, to reinstall Windows and all crap me and my family needs in everyday life, just to try adapt RIL knowing that I will fail, because of my zero knowledge of subject. Or, even worse without knowing that it was already attempted and failed. And it was attempted by someone who is really ample to do it. Do you see holding factors?
That's why I asked questions. And being this question answered properly, who knows, may be another brave soul would had managed to accomplish what punkkaos did, but one month earlier, simpler or better. I feel like bad temper and communication let community down, at least temporarily.
And I think we are all at fault here. No need to point fingers.
No one is at 'fault' here. Your sense of entitlement is astounding; you are not owed anything. This OP was directed at people like you.
phooky said:
No one is at 'fault' here. Your sense of entitlement is astounding; you are not owed anything. This OP was directed at people like you.
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Did I ever said that I'm owed? My grief is about this particular community in general. And because we all members, we all equally responsible for a atmosphere here. Or you think that bashing somebody here helps a lot?
And you know what? OP is right at the moment, I'll stay away from any custom roms or mods or whatever. At least for now. Because to be "cool" is not only thing in my life anymore. I outgrown it long time ago.
My crave for update is stemming not from desire to have highest score in quadrant, but from wish to have stable, usable and secure platform, from which IMHO any current phone is far away.
Out of the box SF is fairly usable, thought not ideal. Having Froyo and GB, means that I can get all bug fixes, improvements and new features such as native code extensions for applications and games, enterprise stuff etc.
Using rooted phone might be OK for me, but definitely not for my wife or children. So, manufacturer support is still important. Unfortunately my believe in Samsung faded out very quickly. And that essentially raised importance of independent developers proportionally. I do not see anything wrong with it.
phooky said:
No one is at 'fault' here. Your sense of entitlement is astounding; you are not owed anything. This OP was directed at people like you.
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this guy does not seem to be in the entitlement crowd. He even states that english is a second language and to cut him some slack. I think what he was trying to say is that he was disappointed that samsung kept getting everybodies hopes up, which may have pushed devs off of working on getting things rolling for this device (why wouldn't they wait when they are being told froyo is on the way? From what I understand it would be easier to rip through that and make changes than to pull it off a different phone and sort of start from scratch). This doesn't sound too "tinfoil hat" to me, and certaintly doesn;t come off as entitled. More like he was pointing out one possible contributing factor as to why there has been a lot of waiting around (not complaining here guys, statement of fact. Did/do appreciate all the nonfroyo/gb roms and fixes that have been pushed out for us) for word of froyo. Now that Kaos/JT/Birdman have gotten some Froyo alpha's posted up, I am getting the feeling that the floodgates are about to open.
2 cents
I am not a developer.
My phone was decent out of the box.
Thanks to all the developers hard work, that i don't yet have the ability to do, my phone has gone from decent to fantastic.
The best part is that they aren't done yet
The future is exciting and if i ever think i am entitled to anything from someone elses work then, please, someone on here ***** slap me.
To all developers on here....you have my respect and gratitude. You have improved my life and saved my ass more than once. (Or twice)
Please keep doing your thing. And when i learn how to help i will.
Sent from my fascinate through xda app.
Well, the goal isn't to instill hostility, but to bring awareness to be thankful.
I can see what CNemo means because he doesn't understand what's going on. I can assure you that there is no intended elitism going on. Most of the roms tested in irc are shared here as soon as they are determined to be stable enough for testing.
It may seem like there is no transparency, but actually if you care, there is... The source codes are public. You can see what the devs are doing on github.
Yeah I've tried the whole, "Im just gonna throw it out there on the forums" thing. It does not work well, and you end up ticking people off when things stop working. Always best for the IRC crowd to muddle through the stuff first.
adrynalyne said:
Yeah I've tried the whole, "Im just gonna throw it out there on the forums" thing. It does not work well, and you end up ticking people off when things stop working. Always best for the IRC crowd to muddle through the stuff first.
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I agree and disagree. I disagree because it's nice to have this stuff in the forums where more people can try it. On the other hand, no matter how many warnings you give, there are going to be those who AREN'T comfortable with ADB, etc and go ahead and do it anyway... then we as a community lose valuable time while you fix everyone's fubar. It's frustrating to me, I can only imagine being on the other side. As far as Devs go, I don't envy them... It's the utimate "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario.
Aside from donations and thanks, the other way to support the Dev community is to PAY for apps. I have quite a few paid apps on my phone. The only caveat to that is when I'm looking at an app and I'm unsure if I want/need it. From time to time I'll grab it from ********* and give it a 5min test spin. If it works, I uninstall and grab it from the Market. If it doesn't, I just uninstall. I know (for the most part) that we're talking about two separate types of devs, but the point is the same... if you're using someone's work... support them!
In response to the post above, I think I get what he was saying... I've done some programming (old school, mostly... BASIC, MS Acess) and while that doesn't really apply to Android at ALL, there may be some of us that have ideas that could help. In the end, a variable is a variable is a variable. I've thrown questions and ideas out only to be ignored. I don't take it personally, but even a "no, dip****... it doesn't work like that" would be appreaciated
No seriously, the guys in IRC will flash anything thrown at them... Some of them will end up with serious issues that were found to be seriously flawed.
Here's an example. VooDoo 5. When it first started rolling around in IRC from jt, it was considered unstable. It did not have the tools required for the average user to repair their phone. Adrynalyne preemptively produced the DI01 all in one ROM to repair everything from the radio, the kernel, the MBR, the recovery even... Did Adrynalyne have to do that? No, he did it because he knew that kinds of issues that would arrive when VooDoo 5 was introduced. Then VooDoo 5 was released.
Compared to VooDoo 4, the amount of incidents are exponentially less because of Adrynalyne putting a fix out there.
Also with phone repairs, it's much easier to help someone fix something in real time than it is to wait on them to try something, post, wait for response, in that sequence than it is to discuss the repair live in a chatroom.
BTW, this is in no offense to anyone. This is to clarify why some of the people are perceived as elitists. It's not that the IRC crowd are elitists, it's that they're more up to date with the latest development because they're busy flashing and screwing up their phones first so that you don't have to. On the same token, if you want to learn/test latest development, hop on IRC and ask any of the guys in #Samsung-Fascinate for help. It's very friendly in there contrary to what you would think (as long as you're not wozzy/sherwood1).
What is happening to this community?
What is with all the complaining ALL the time? This community is falling apart and we are all responsible for that. It seems all anyone ever does is complain about EVERY little tiny thing... We actually have it pretty good. Most of the Epic users will be on stock ROM's for the life of their phones. We have the opportunity to use, create and share something much better. The developers here at XDA are top notch and clearly do a better job then both Sprint and Samsung seem to be capable of...and yet we still find things to complain about and people to criticize. Why is that??
Speaking of the developers here, they put a HUGE amount of time and sometimes money (hosting ect) into providing all of us something truly useful and a big step up from what we would otherwise be stuck with. The attitude of "entitlement" needs to shift to something more like being "grateful" for what is provide here, FREE of charge.
Sure some developers have an off XDA website but so what. If it doesn't violate the rules then WHO CARES. Speaking for myself ONLY, I have very good reasons for redirecting (and I do believe I meet the requirements) traffic to my blog and they don't revolve around money. If you don't like the "inconvenience" of being redirected then don't use my ROM's. I can't please everyone..no matter how hard I may try. The way I personally view it is if I can find the time in my life to put this stuff together for anyone that wants to use it then you should be able to find the extra few minutes it takes click the link and follow it to my blog. That is the only thing I ask for all the time I freely give to this.
Quite frankly, we as the members of the XDA community need to reevaluate things. The developers DONATE their time (and some have precious little of it) and energy to HELP all of you... This whole "entitled" attitude and the "God complexes" some people have developed is a bit disturbing. I won't speak for anyone but myself but in my opinion, the sheer amount of time that goes into these releases completely eclipses the few minutes it takes to redirect to another site for a link (again as long as it doesn't violate the rules). Instead of complaining about EVERYTHING be GRATEFUL your not stuck on a stock ROM....
Many people can't even be bothered to click the Thanks button or read the directions.. I personally like helping you all out if my limited knowledge can be useful but I'm starting to become to frustrated to care anymore and I do really try to stay positive. All of this drama revolves around a phone....a phone people. There are WAY bigger things going on around you right now to get this worked up about a phone..... If you need some perspective on life please feel free to read my blog.
We can do better... I know we are all capable of better... When crap threads get started don't dignify them by commenting, just move past it. Report it if you want and more on... We should all take some pride in all the accomplishments this community achieved.
For my part, I will continue to help, learn and contribute to this community while spreading Autism Awareness..... What will you do?
Amen brother!
Gotta agree with you 100%. I came from another forum and a WinMo phone, and the community was much more supportive and friendly. The only reason I stay is because of a few excellent developers here. Not sure why XDA is getting so unpleasant, but we could use a little more tolerance here.
(Hope that doesn't get me banned)
Well said. Its all free why complain. I am not a developer but I have tried every rom on here and it seems to me most of the roms have a little bit of work from all the devs......so why the bickering. I also have to imagine most devs do this as kind of a hobby, why else do it there is almost nothing to be gained other than the challenge of improving on something that a manufacturer didn't get quite right (not baashing sammy every phone has its own issues or xda probably wouldn't be so popular).
That being said I just started using midnight, nice rom man. But besides that I started reading your blog about a month ago, it really makes me step back and take a look at things differently. I don't post much on this site cuz I have little to actually contribute but your right there are bigger things than a rom to get worked up over.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA Premium App
I think you and all the devs do an awesome job personally. Honestly any problem I've ever had has been solved just by searching for literally less then 5 minutes. I hardly need to ask questions because the devs and testers are so quick to answer any question. I absolutely LOVE how my phone runs and works.
Any negative threads I just...ignore. No point in them really.
So ya THANKS to you and all the devs.
I know when i was on my tp2 and flashing roms even tho how much a pos that phone was compared to this amazing phone we have now and the awesome roms we have
i have been happy and not complaining about anything on my epic.
If people dont like samsung then go buy something else i personally been fed up with htc hardware..
As for redirecting to sites, i have no problem doing that a all and i like reading your blog @ptfdmedic i always goto your site if im looking for a flashable zip or news, even tho i dont use your rom
i appreciate all your hard work and your autism awareness.
This community is for people who want to experiment with your phone and make it better, so if you happen to have an issue dont complain instead search read instructions and dont be lazy and ***** at samsung software glitches and what not considering our amazing developers here usually have some fixes within a few hours of the bug report.
AMAZING
Thanks to all the developers
For making my epic truly epic and better then any phone out atm.
Agreed!!
As for me not much i can do but give sexual favors....
The issues described reflect a larger societal issue. We cannot change people, so the best tools are forum moderators and users setting a good example.
iSaint said:
As for me not much i can do but give sexual favors....
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u say this after you take your so called "Toothpaste" ad out of your signature. lmao
I agree with you pftmedic. Thanks for that speech. I hope.more.people will read it and realize what you said. Why get worked up cause you have to.make 2 extra clicks to download a rom for FREE!! I also wanted to say that I.love reading your blogs Rob and my prayers are with you and your family. I really enjoyed the story about the man at the grocery store. That was very touching and you had me emotional. I know your goal is to try to get autism awareness out there so people can understand it. I don't know anyone that has autism so I never really knew about it. I just wanted to let u know that you opened up my eyes to autism and I.live reading your stories. Thanks for being such an inspiration to us when we are feeling overwhelmed with something. I will continue to pray for you and your family and God bless your little angels.
Sent From My Evo Killer!
iSaint said:
Agreed!!
As for me not much i can do but give sexual favors....
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...comedic relief.....
Perhaps sometimes people need a place to vent and work out their stress. I know, do it elsewhere, not here......
Thank you for saying what a lot of us have been thinking.
Its always been this unpleasant with the exception of a few brief periods.. Its just the nature of the Epic community.
stir fry a lot said:
Its always been this unpleasant with the exception of a few brief periods.. Its just the nature of the Epic community.
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I agree but that doesn't mean we have to continue making the same mistakes.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. So if we want better then we need to change things up a bit.
ptfdmedic said:
I agree but that doesn't mean we have to continue making the same mistakes.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. So if we want better then we need to change things up a bit.
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Well said my friend
Sent From My Epic Bonsai Tree
Thanks, it is appreciated. I agree with the complaints thing. It's part of the reason I don't post too often. Except to thank.
Yea i was "joking"
Keepin it Constructive
Thanks buddy - well said! Hope this connects with the right folks.
Well said ptfdmedic, I agree that there are many people who feel entitled here. Maybe I come across that way without feeling like I do but I try my best not to. I don't hit the thanks button much but I am fairly new here and I am not used to it. As for redirecting to your site, I actually like being redirected there, I read 50 pages of your blog the other night and it was eyeopening. My father works in special-ed and the kids he works with are at Eliot's level, it was interesting to read just how further the continuum goes.