Database Users

Was there something I missed?

Whats up with all the devs bailing out? Not to mean that in a bad way, I appreciate all of yalls hard work dont get me wrong!

because many people believe that its wrong to donate to a developer who spends so much time working on a rom to get an early release even though they know that they will get it free after a few days.
because people don't have patience.
because people don't appreciate others' works.
because people think that they DESERVE everything that they want and will whine if they don't get it.
because people are ignorant.

justinisyoung said:
because many people believe that its wrong to donate to a developer who spends so much time working on a rom to get an early release even though they know that they will get it free after a few days.
because people don't have patience.
because people don't appreciate others' works.
because people think that they DESERVE new roms with all features working right away
because people are ignorant.
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in sumation becuase there is too much drama going on.

heh I stopped releasing any of my work back in january.

Because someone let a stinky one and pointed the finger at someone else instead

justinisyoung said:
because many people believe that its wrong to donate to a developer who spends so much time working on a rom to get an early release even though they know that they will get it free after a few days.
because people don't have patience.
because people don't appreciate others' works.
because people think that they DESERVE everything that they want and will whine if they don't get it.
because people are ignorant.
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I really dont understand why it is a bad thing to donate. its just like anything else that is made out there, Just be glad they arent charging you for this stuff. They do it out of there free will. People that want to bit*h about this kinda stuff should be banned.

this donation crap shouldn't have even been allowed now look what's happening.

ok time to kill this thread as it is just going to turn into another troll war just like the other. thanks and goodbye

Just leave the subject alone and let it die out please...
we don't need to keep beating a dead horse...

apollooff320 said:
this donation crap shouldn't have even been allowed now look what's happening.
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Ok so if you go buy a car, you dont want someone to fix it when its broke
Same thing you go by a phone, You want to make it better Right? And for free? Ok well if you want to thank them then you can donate to them.
The whole donating thing you dont have to do it. All the roms will be released to the public, just the people that have donated get a early copy...So what are you actually compliang about with the donations thing here?

Merckle said:
Ok so if you go buy a car, you dont want someone to fix it when its broke
Same thing you go by a phone, You want to make it better Right? And for free? Ok well if you want to thank them then you can donate to them.
The whole donating thing you dont have to do it. All the roms will be released to the public, just the people that have donated get a early copy...So what are you actually compliang about with the donations thing here?
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The devs didn't write the software in the rom. They pieced together stuff from other roms. It's not their software. If people want to donate for the customization, fine, but it's not right to charge for other people's hard work. This sort of thing is what will give HTC / Google the ability to start sending DMCA's.
Charging is the difference between sex and prostitution.

gthing said:
The devs didn't write the software in the rom. They pieced together stuff from other roms. It's not their software. If people want to donate for the customization, fine, but it's not right to charge for other people's hard work. This sort of thing is what will give HTC / Google the ability to start sending DMCA's.
Charging is the difference between sex and prostitution.
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See I never saw it as them charging for the software, the people who donate get first look the people who didnt still get it. At no point have they said that there was a fee for this software, only if you appreciated the time they have taken and donated, you get first look. Similar to the manner in which HTC was supposed to release the kernel, they released it to sprint first then eventually the general public. Doesnt seem like linux issued a gpl violation against them to stop selling their devices

gthing said:
The devs didn't write the software in the rom. They pieced together stuff from other roms. It's not their software. If people want to donate for the customization, fine, but it's not right to charge for other people's hard work. This sort of thing is what will give HTC / Google the ability to start sending DMCA's.
Charging is the difference between sex and prostitution.
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i havent posted about all this drama since im new, but it seems you are the only person with some form of logic. i get both sides of the argument, but instead of asking for donations to get a early release why not just ask for them to just email you? i understand it takes time for flipz to send the rom to everyone,and everyone knows time is money, he should get something for his work, but i dont think asking for a donation for early release is the right way to get it.
most likely he doesnt even want nothing for his work cuz this is a open source community and he just wanted a way to get testers so he can release a more complete rom for all of us, im sure if he knew it was going to be such a problem on the forums he wouldnt have bothered to do the donation thing for an early version. The donations is voluntary but then again u are "Forced" to donate if u want a early version. i fail to see how that is different from buying something that i want. sure it might come out later for free, but right now the only way to get it is to donate/buy it.
munchies!!!
im in no way trying to offend any of the devs, you guys are amazing and i very thankfull for all the work that you guys do. im just giving my meaningless(this is the internet afterall) opinion from the outside looking in.

pntballer1413 said:
i havent posted about all this drama since im new, but it seems you are the only person with some form of logic. i get both sides of the argument, but instead of asking for donations to get a early release why not just ask for them to just email you? i understand it takes time for flipz to send the rom to everyone,and everyone knows time is money, he should get something for his work, but i dont think asking for a donation for early release is the right way to get it.
most likely he doesnt even want nothing for his work cuz this is a open source community and he just wanted a way to get testers so he can release a more complete rom for all of us, im sure if he knew it was going to be such a problem on the forums he wouldnt have bothered to do the donation thing for an early version. The donations is voluntary but then again u are "Forced" to donate if u want a early version. i fail to see how that is different from buying something that i want. sure it might come out later for free, but right now the only way to get it is to donate/buy it.
munchies!!!
im in no way trying to offend any of the devs, you guys are amazing and i very thankfull for all the work that you guys do. im just giving my meaningless(this is the internet afterall) opinion from the outside looking in.
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He never asked for donations for an early release. People volunteered donations for an early release. He gave the early release to donators from his last ROM. People got excited and started sending him donations so that they could get it. Flipz never asked them to. The beta release is unfinished and very buggy. You don't have to have it if you can wait a few days so that he can fix the bugs.

from a social psych perspective, having donations tied quid pro quo for something not everyone has the equal availability to experience is essentially going to diminish both sides of the equation here. Flipz will potentially look at the screaming rise in donations in anticipation of redeeming much of his hard earned time and effort in the form of monetary donations. Likewise, from the user perspective - many of you have already donated to get into that early release pool and sign off on the matter by claiming that flipz deserves the donation anyway.
with all the legalities aside here, and focusing solely on what an early release of flipz's rom being given to those who contribute monetary donations, there is no difference in my purchasing of a new microwave at the local sears and my donating to flipz with the added benefit of being sent an insider's link to the current unreleased firmware.
no matter how you flip it, or spin it, what it comes down to regardless of the point of view is preferential treatment. if flipz wants to make some money back on his time spent, as well as his bandwidth costs, this is the most legal way he can do it tbh. but if flipz wants this to be considered "free" for all intensive purposes, then there would be no early release to those who donate. its not free and/or open-source when the availability of the item is discriminated against those who do not donate.
on this last note, flipz will inevitably succumb to "every man has his price". the majority of the devs with blockbusting roms around here deserve their own subforum dedicated to how awesome they are for contributing to this community. I applaud them wholeheartedly. when the factor of money comes into the picture, there are very few people who will not be aroused financially by what people are willing to shell out for. The enthusiasm that we see from a dev who ties money directly into the release of his or her roms will virtually never be the same as one who accepts donations without an added incentive to his or her userbase.
bottom line, i think flipz made the wrong choice on both ends of the equation here. there is now a monetary factor that cannot be overlooked in the impending releases of all future "fresh" roms if nothing is changed. And for that I simply refuse to take part in any of these releases where there is a two-way transaction of goods regardless of the context.

I don't see how hall are not getting this flips donators are essentially his beta testers he's not giving them a finished Rom he's simply doing his thing realesing to donators to test out. They send feedback he fixes and BAM!!! public release with most of The bugs worked out.... how are yall not understanding that

I'm new and can't see the forest through the trees. But I do worry about what will happen when the official 2.1 is released by sprint. Could it be a total unrooting and lock-out?

Just because you charge for something doesnt mean its not open source. Free as in speech, not beer.

This thread keeps rolling downhill, but I see something that needs clarification. Flipz has NEVER EVER asked for a donation OK. Read it again, internalize it. NEVER EVER. You don't like the donation sh*t??? Don't donate and be happy with it. In about 2-4 days, you will have an updated software release after some people have found some bugs and some of them have been fixed. NO ONE is requiring a donation it is completely VOLUNTARY. No one will die for waiting about 4 days for a ROM (although some people sound like they will). Get a grip people. This is very simple.

On top of all this! people donate to him .. but how much do you need to give him? No he did not say... I could had paid .25 and still get it before anyone else..so please STFU!

ok...look...lets calm down

First I'm not a mediator mod or any of that, but people we are acting like children.
1. Why are u here?
The devs on this forum are taking personal time! We as community members are not ENTITLED to ROMS. They do this for the love of the platform, so respect that.
2. This is not the Sprint forum.
Again, this forum does not imply or state that EVERYTHING is going to work with whatever ROM u choose. So really, why ***** or hate? Really?
3. What can u add?
Nobody expects anyone to be the cdma hero "hero". Everyone should know they lane and stay in it. Report bugs or dev, its that simple
I don't have the highest post count and I may be out of line but I have been studying/learning here since it was questionable if there would be a sprint hero forum. Let's not **** it up by driving away the same folks that got us here. I know that from past comments this will probably get locked, but if we don't as a whole respect more what's going on we have a chance of loosing it.
Respect to all the devs on here and the work they do, for US!

+1,000,000 Agreed,it's sad when people can't even thank someone without it turning into as bunch of un-needed bull$#17.Just be positive people,some good things are happening,don't let these people ruin things.

I don't post much here anymore, because of some personal reasons with regards to this forum. I still lurk a lot, however, and I just don't see where all the straight-up hate and animosity these posts such as yours are mentioning. I tend to avoid the 80-page threads because they are mostly filled with junk, is it in there?
Perhaps I should check them out.
The hate and animosity and watering down of this subforum with too many useless posts is why I haven't released anything since December. I'm working on a new rom for myself, and I'm thinking less and less like I might want to actually release it here. Last thing I feel like dealing with are a bunch of whiny people who aren't happy with me or my work unless it makes their phone do what THEY want. Where's the reward for devs? Don't anyone even bother mentioning donations.

Support that!

dude props for this! good going. And I agree with you 1000%

its no crime to show thanks and respect to some one for their hard work. if deving was easy we would all be doing it.

obelisk79 said:
I don't post much here anymore, because of some personal reasons with regards to this forum. I still lurk a lot, however, and I just don't see where all the straight-up hate and animosity these posts such as yours are mentioning. I tend to avoid the 80-page threads because they are mostly filled with junk, is it in there?
Perhaps I should check them out.
The hate and animosity and watering down of this subforum with too many useless posts is why I haven't released anything since December. I'm working on a new rom for myself, and I'm thinking less and less like I might want to actually release it here. Last thing I feel like dealing with are a bunch of whiny people who aren't happy with me or my work unless it makes their phone do what THEY want. Where's the reward for devs? Don't anyone even bother mentioning donations.
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This is exactly why we should respect the devs... pretty soon all of them will be gone.

You beat me to it ... but I don't really care.
I think we just got too amped up with all the 2.1 excitement and started trying to outdo oneanother instead of working together. Once the official 2.1 comes out, I think we will see a lot more collaboration to make it as good as possible. In the mean time, always five credit where it is due, and don't worry about who did what first, because it only benefits everybody. That's why our great devs are here: to help create a better device, not to profit or hoard secrets. This is the first real open source project I have been a part of, and I get excited just thinking about what the future has in store for us. Let's make it a great one!

Can we just please stop with these types of threads.

The way I look at it is like a car.
You buy the car, and you COULD just leave it at that. Some people like to mod their car and optimize it for maximum performance. Many people do not know how to do this, so they need to take it some someone who does know how, and the mechanic for damn sure isnt going to do that *** for free. I think of our devs a mechanics, optimizing my phone for me because I have no idea how to develop to my phone. The difference here is that they are doing this **** for free. So what if they ask for a donation, bums on the street ask for "donations" for doing ***. We were going to get 2.1 for free one way or another at some point since we already had the car (Hero for you thick headed people), whether it be a whole 2 days after flipz released it to contributors, or when sprint/htc officially releases it at the rumored end of this month.
And be happy this isnt a car, because if it was not only would you HAVE to pay for the official update, but you would have to pay for the installation and optimization.
Taking a *** chill pill all those people who are too stingy to even donate 1 buck.

Don't make me say the f word and post an off color picture so this thread gets shut down
just playing mods. don't hurt me.

foxracr17 said:
the way i look at it is like a car.
You buy the car, and you could just leave it at that. Some people like to mod their car and optimize it for maximum performance. Many people do not know how to do this, so they need to take it some someone who does know how, and the mechanic for damn sure isnt going to do that **** for free. I think of our devs a mechanics, optimizing my phone for me because i have no idea how to develop to my phone. The difference here is that they are doing this **** for free. So what if they ask for a donation, bums on the street ask for "donations" for doing ****. We were going to get 2.1 for free one way or another at some point since we already had the car (hero for you thick headed people), whether it be a whole 2 days after flipz released it to contributors, or when sprint/htc officially releases it at the rumored end of this month.
And be happy this isnt a car, because if it was not only would you have to pay for the official update, but you would have to pay for the installation and optimization.
Taking a ****ing chill pill all those people who are too stingy to even donate 1 buck.
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this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! .

Tipharet said:
Can we just please stop with these types of threads.
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No kidding... I am pretty sick of hearing people explain to me why I should be grateful to the rom developers. Like saying "The devs on this forum are taking personal time!" is some enlightening way to look at it. Everyone knows that already. And it gets really old seeing people make threads like this in an effort to get brownie points around here. There are so many threads EXACTLY like this. You are pushing posts that actually have a use out of view for a lot of people.
Oh wait, I have a difference of opinion. Lets start another thread and label it disrespect to the development gods...

Thank you. And I mean that. Because of XDA and it's amazing devs, I have gotten more out of this phone than I ever imagined. I have never had a phone that could do so much and people here were always willing to help me with a problem. And that is wonderful. I am glad that I joined this forum. In fact, I look forward to checking it every day. lol I don't know a lot about Linux, Java, or coding, but I do however know a lot about photography. I am a professional. So, if anyone needs help that way, I am completely for helping...I mean, all of you have helped me...I'd like to return the favor.
-Ken

flexgrip said:
No kidding... I am pretty sick of hearing people explain to me why I should be grateful to the rom developers. Like saying "The devs on this forum are taking personal time!" is some enlightening way to look at it. Everyone knows that already. And it gets really old seeing people make threads like this in an effort to get brownie points around here. There are so many threads EXACTLY like this. You are pushing posts that actually have a use out of view for a lot of people.
Oh wait, I have a difference of opinion. Lets start another thread and label it disrespect to the development gods...
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Actually that wasn't my point at all. My point is threads like this do nothing but divert attention to them, it perpetuates the negativity. New users come in these threads and see this and "ask what I missed" then it gets started over and over again.
As soon as these threads die (yes I realize I bump when I reply) the drama will also follow. Donate, dont donate, dev, dont dev ( not really) but just treat each other like some one you would walk by on the street or have a conversation with while standing in a line.

Asking for your cake and eating it 2.
I dont post alot here as well due to personal issues here on the form (so many smarty pants people on here)
But if i see a rom that i like (or app) i give the dev his props and thank him for putting in hard work when he or she could of been doing something else not trying please us and make our phones better then the stock ones.
Not saying the next person have to do the same. But if i wasted 5hrs of my time. and your running around showing off with my work i would like some props.
This dont even have nothng to do with roms or dev so im sure its going to get closed down soon. You people are just wasting your time making these threads people going to do what they going to do.

It's true that these type of threads may seem senseless and get hijacked to negativity... but in the past, my experience is that when moderators and dev's get fed up enough the forum/site would become closed and open to invitation only type membership, i.e., PRIVATE ACCESS!
That scenario is both good and bad... "Good" if you're in the loop, but potentially "Bad" because you just might end up on the outside looking in with your nose pressed against the window! So PROPS it is...
I have come to XDA for a long time, joined only so I could post, and only recently began to do so. But, that said, it has been indispensable for the provision of knowledge and fixes for handsets that the manufacturers and or carriers are unable to do themselves... so again - PROPS it is... no reason to drag it down.
+++++1,000 thanks to the awesome work being done!
There are those who truly can never be pleased, yet, I think that ration is extremely small. So again, for something I would gladly pay for, but am not required to do, I offer the easiest thing, a gesture of THANKS!

RE: ▽▲ AXURA Vibrant Edition ▼△ Development Stopped.

RE: ▽▲ AXURA Vibrant Edition ▼△ Development Stopped.
First I'd like to say that was a punk move. Secondly, there's plenty of other great ROMs out there. I'm not sad, nor upset. I'm not going to kiss Master's ass. (I'm a software developer, I could take my own time to do this same ****) I'm also not going to flame or trash him (That'd be a waste of bandwidth and time).
The politics on these forums is ridiculous. You get something for free and then everyone *****es when things don't go their way. Devs take their personal time to provide you with something 'cool' or 'different' and you have a few select people ruining it for others. I don't 100% agree with 'Donating' to get 'early releases', but whatever. It is what it is. I'll roll with 2.0.6 AKA Axura Final until I get bored or something different catches my eye.
I'll admit, I really liked the theming done to it. I'm so sick of black and stupid ugly colors (I have a bit of a desiger background) that a lot of people call 'cool' or thinks 'looks great!'. And after searching for a ROM that didn't look like total ****, I actually considered getting involved in the theming community. We'll see.
Haters will hate.

I'm just taken away by this, I go out to eat with ole girl, come back and everything is stopped. I'm keeping 2.1 one for a while now, its destined to be a relic. But it is a damn good ROM, and skoal had to **** it up for everyone. I am sure he has recieved TONS of PMs from pissed off followers of Master, and rightfully so. However, I will not partake in anything like that.
I'm hoping this is just a phase that will blow over. Master came out of no where, it a place dominated by the "heavy hitters" and made a name for himself.

Good, mature post.
When somethings turns from being appreciated into being expected...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

I don't understand why a single leak is being blown so big.
How do you think we got the froyo release? ---(Leaked)
You dont see samsung *****ing and pouting about stopping development (which is minimal anyway).
I am running the captivate port for the 2.0 rom and hands down it is the fastest and most stable rom in our rom dev.

xtremekilla09 said:
I don't understand why a single leak is being blown so big.
How do you think we got the froyo release? ---(Leaked)
You dont see samsung *****ing and pouting about stopping development (which is minimal anyway).
I am running the captivate port for the 2.0 rom and hands down it is the fastest and most stable rom in our rom dev.
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Its not all WHAT was done, but what was SAID, and how it went down. Blatant disrespect.

xtremekilla09 said:
I don't understand why a single leak is being blown so big.
How do you think we got the froyo release? ---(Leaked)
You dont see samsung *****ing and pouting about stopping development (which is minimal anyway).
I am running the captivate port for the 2.0 rom and hands down it is the fastest and most stable rom in our rom dev.
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+1
When we try to stop the leaking of leaked roms then I think it's getting out of control.
I can fully appreciate Master +all the other devs for the work but the fact is, one person gets the rom early and Master calls foul... big deal. Get over it. I wonder how many leaked roms from other devs have fallen into Master's lap.

+1
couped said:
Good, mature post.
When somethings turns from being appreciated into being expected...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
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Exactly my thoughts.

razormy said:
+1
When we try to stop the leaking of leaked roms then I think it's getting out of control.
I can fully appreciate Master +all the other devs for the work but the fact is, one person gets the rom early and Master calls foul... big deal. Get over it. I wonder how many leaked roms from other devs have fallen into Master's lap.
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This is the first I've been involved with any ROM outside of the G1 realm (CyanogenMod) and I don't know of any other project where you can donate to get special treatment. Honestly, that's where the problem started. Dealing with money and VIP status. Cyanogen doesn't release anything until he's ready. Mainly so he can avoid the barrage of "X doesn't work, plz/fix/k/thx!". I also don't think if a few people get ZOMG v6.0.1.2-FINAL, that he'd be too upset.
There is a sense of quality control. You don't want a lot of people to get an early release to prevent the spamming of complaints. It's distracting and takes away from your project plan. If this was a real dev shop there'd be a bug tracking list and a handful of devs hacking away at their assigned tickets.
Overall, (both parties included, or and I guess the leaker too) it's a punk move. What are we? 12? (Sometimes I think we are! after all the bickering I read)
Meh... :|

It is a shame. While I wasn't going to donate to get a pre-release copy, I was going to donate after the final version was released assuming it worked fine as a thank you for his hard work (I had a few issues with 2.05 and was waiting before flashing again).
It is his right though, even if it is confusing when considering the circumstances of how these types of ROMs got started in the first place.

This forum is so crappy now..
everyone wants rewarded and begs for money
Master I thought was the worse...

icebrkr said:
This is the first I've been involved with any ROM outside of the G1 realm (CyanogenMod) and I don't know of any other project where you can donate to get special treatment. Honestly, that's where the problem started. Dealing with money and VIP status. Cyanogen doesn't release anything until he's ready. Mainly so he can avoid the barrage of "X doesn't work, plz/fix/k/thx!". I also don't think if a few people get ZOMG v6.0.1.2-FINAL, that he'd be too upset.
There is a sense of quality control. You don't want a lot of people to get an early release to prevent the spamming of complaints. It's distracting and takes away from your project plan. If this was a real dev shop there'd be a bug tracking list and a handful of devs hacking away at their assigned tickets.
Overall, (both parties included, or and I guess the leaker too) it's a punk move. What are we? 12? (Sometimes I think we are! after all the bickering I read)
Meh... :|
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Agreed. Thanks for this thread. I hated reading the last one because of all the nonsense. A new rom will come and the fools will be foolish.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

kingrat said:
This forum is so crappy now..
everyone wants rewarded and begs for money
Master I thought was the worse...
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Let's not trash talk or name names... ok?

problem with forums like this
The problem with forums like this is they break out something like this:
10% 12-18
40% 19-26
40% 27-45
10% 46-60+ (where I fall into)
So, since age and maturity is the problem (or lack of maturity) there is no way to regulate that, not in an open forum....we are just left to self regulation........and as such, it will always be imperfect.
What is important is to be respectful and mature in the treatment (doing what they ask) of each other. The leaked rom from one friend to another is not really the core issue...........it is the public proclamation "Hey I got over on you" that demonstrates both the lack of respect and lack of maturity. This adolescent behavior (which the guilty one thinks is cute) damages our experience in this forum or in other forums. A Shame really.......

This forum gets ridiculous full of ungrateful people it really ruins development of great phones, people start to think they deserve something that was given out of good faith to help them hence original 2.2 leak
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App

Lets see if I can say this without sounding rude... Fok master, do the **** your self, a lot of his **** is off leaked stuff and others work...
he should be happy someone wanted his **** that bad...
By the way donating for a early release isn't a donation, thats a payment..... Never using his rom again, imma go stock and make the rom myself, you all could to its simple....
EDIT: Hell I remember when Master was trying to over run BIONIX lol Dude was all in their business... Trying to side help their ****. Man common Master, This is a punk move, for this You will never get a second look from me... Peace man, Just needed them donations/ Payments huh

Not allowing people to distribute his ROM is a violation of the GPL. He may ask, but he has no basis to. He built a ROM based on pre-released code and Open Source code and has no valid position to stop the same. Sure, he can get pissy if people do, that is certainly his right, but the moment he makes it available to anyone that person clearly has the right to distribute it unless it has actual proprietary software on it.
The person asking was within their rights
The person who gave it out was within their rights
Master getting pissed and stopping further development for people exercising their rights is completely within his rights.
Life goes on, shame, I was waiting for 2.1, time to move on.

kingrat said:
This forum is so crappy now..
everyone wants rewarded and begs for money
Master I thought was the worse...
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I've seen you in Master's thread, you've contributed nothing but disrespect and you're part of the reason he closed his thread.
FYI, Master isn't discontinuing development. He is choosing not to share with XDA. Anyone that is interested in his work can still find it on his forum.
Seems a lot of Devs are keeping their work on their own sites. From what I've seen on this site in the last few weeks, I don't blame them.

I think it's messed up for those that paid for his roms now to get no support.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

First of all thanks for making this thread OP. I want to get a few things out here as well.
Very immature on the part of everyone involved. Seriously grow up and get on with it.
This donation stuff is nothing more than payment and that is right. But the payment isn't so much for the software as it is the help in putting it together and getting it all to play nice. Sure you could piece it all together yourself if you had enough free time it isn't THAT hard. Or like me if your time is more valuable you can sling homeboy <INSERT NAME HERE> $10 and have him put it together for you. I value my time greatly and I lead a very busy life so I am very happy paying someone $10 if it even saves 30 minutes of my day. I am highly skilled and do computer security work for a living so it has nothing to do with knowledge or ability.
So lets make that clear. You are donating for their time not the actual software itself. Some of these guys spend a ton of time on their ROMs and if I can get that for a piddly $10-$25 donation then I say that is a deal. And on top of that he even offers personalized support when this ROM doesn't work.
I don't think the issue here is requiring donations because if they didn't nobody would donate so that is only fair. And it is more than reasonable for them to try to get some reward for time and effort invested. Especially if they have a website to support!

jnutz said:
First of all thanks for making this thread OP. I want to get a few things out here as well.
Very immature on the part of everyone involved. Seriously grow up and get on with it.
This donation stuff is nothing more than payment and that is right. But the payment isn't so much for the software as it is the help in putting it together and getting it all to play nice. Sure you could piece it all together yourself if you had enough free time it isn't THAT hard. Or like me if your time is more valuable you can sling homeboy <INSERT NAME HERE> $10 and have him put it together for you. I value my time greatly and I lead a very busy life so I am very happy paying someone $10 if it even saves 30 minutes of my day. I am highly skilled and do computer security work for a living so it has nothing to do with knowledge or ability.
So lets make that clear. You are donating for their time not the actual software itself. Some of these guys spend a ton of time on their ROMs and if I can get that for a piddly $10-$25 donation then I say that is a deal. And on top of that he even offers personalized support when this ROM doesn't work.
I don't think the issue here is requiring donations because if they didn't nobody would donate so that is only fair. And it is more than reasonable for them to try to get some reward for time and effort invested. Especially if they have a website to support!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I couldn't agree more.

Devs that quit: who's to blame?

The thought popped up in my head this morning. I remembered Eugene, the developer of the Macnut ROM, who no longer supported XDA. Then another dev, jellette, that quit for reasons I can't quite understand. Who's to blame for these developers quitting the scene, or only providing ROMs on other sites?
I'm a 16 year old high school student in San Francisco. I've been lurking the forums ever since I got my Vibrant and my friend directed me here. I'm not at all new to hacks like these, I've been participating in communities and actions like these since I was 12. I never found a reason to become closely connected within this community, though. It's not a small group, it's a much larger one, and I don't have any place to fit in. This is one of my first posts, and it's one that I feel I need to share with the community: my thoughts and beliefs on the whole situation about devs that no longer support XDA or flat out quit.
Let's cover some ground first:
These devs are not paid. They make these ROMs, custom kernels, and other mods in their spare time. The only money they make off these ROMs comes from donations, and some devs don't ask for donations anyway.
The users are not paying for this work. The users don't need to give feedback, however they are permitted and allowed to comment, criticize, or help the developers in any way.
The trade made here is obviously unfair: give nothing, get something. In many cases, get a great piece of work for your phone that will make it blazing fast and give it features and functionality unheard of to other users of the same phone. The devs are ok with this though, as they freely release their work without a price tag.
However, there are some things devs are not ok with. I can't speak for each and every single developer, but having once done development in my own time as well, I can say the one thing that really aggravates all developers, and all people even, is when your work goes unnoticed, or worse yet, gets disrespected. When some bombarding, ignorant user comes along and rips apart your hard work, what are you to do? "This ROM is utterly horrible, you should've put more work into it before releasing this paperweight." Maybe a bit over the top, but it gets the point across, and it's from this that a developer will most likely quit XDA as he sees fit.
So what can we say about the users, the freeloaders? Some decency is expected of all of us, basically. That's the lesson every user should know: respect those that give you what you get. They're not robots that work endlessly with nothing better to do. These are people, hard working men and women who spend hours on end making software for you. Give them your respect. Constructive criticism is nice, but never go so far as to demote them as a person. If you want their respect, you must give them respect. Make them feel welcome and they will continue to work for the entire community. It's simple, human nature.
As for developers, are they in the right place to quit under these grounds? There is no set ground for quitting. Each person sees fit at what time he or she should quit working, in any case: as a dev, as an employee, as anyone. People need to know their limits, and they do know their limits. As a free working developer, they have a lot more liberty in deciding when they want to stop working for the community. Even someone who didn't feel accused or demoted could leave for no reason and it wouldn't affect them as much as if they had left their full-time paying job. This is not a source of revenue, it's not a source of anything, in fact.
One thing devs should know, and this is coming straight from me, is that as someone who releases work on the forums, your name will be known, and it's wise that you build a public image for yourself. Quitting without reason, without a post to describe your feelings, to express concerns or thoughts on the community or whatever else you'd like to mention, does not help build a good public image. You are at liberty to do as you please, that's your free choice, but people will judge you based on your actions. Throwing yourself into a position as such, as a chef, comes with more than just giving out work. It comes with the comments users will give you. It's good to be able to politically conduct yourself, to create a good public image, which will ultimately help you avoid the negative comments the public makes.
In conclusion:
Users: Be respectful, have some common decency. This is for all of us, not just those who don't get it. It's a rule we should all know. Developers are humans, just like us. Respect them as such.
Developers/chefs: You are free to do what you like. Quit as you please, continue as you please, no one will stop you. It is, however, important to make a good public image. Not necessary, but important. Conduct yourself in a political manner, because us users see you as a strong force, not just as a person. Be ready to make a good public image.
I want to know your thoughts on this. I feel it's important that this ground is covered, and that we come to a general consensus on this. The more you know, the better off you are. The more we all know, the better off we will all be.

if only there were more users like you.
I'm tired of these little immature kids making these hardworking devs leave the forum.

xriderx66 said:
if only there were more users like you.
I'm tired of these little immature kids making these hardworking devs leave the forum.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I second that...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

I also think that those developing roms need to understand that a lot of members are teenagers that do not what respect is. I myself am 30yrs old and I know that there are more members that are much younger and very childish. The devs need to not take it out on the entire forum. There are more members that appreciate their work than there are that do not.

I agree with you 100% in partucular regarding the users.
I came to this forum looking for support, trying to get the GPS working on my Vibrant.
Before I posted or did anything I read many threads and researched what it meant to use Odin and to root the phone and flash a rom and to recover from a problem before I even started anything. When I did I was fully aware that I and I alone, was responsible for anything that happened to my phone. I am continually amazed at how some people jump in, without a clue as to what they are doing, then seem to try to blame the developers for their problems. Then you have the group who complain about colors or a boot animation or a "missing" app on a rom they got for free. Simply amazing the entitlement people have over something that someone puts out there for them to try to improve their phone for free.
I can understand how the devs could get fed up with these sorts of actions. It can take a pretty thick skin to deal with all the stuff I see going on here.

It is like a preschool in here...just get used to it.
Life will go on, and someone will always be making roms--herds are pathetic, individuals are lost inside said herds. Keep your ears open and your mouth shut.
My $0.02

No one but the Dev can pull their ROMs and leave. We all take criticism in life. Some run, some brush it off.

ScooterG said:
No one but the Dev can pull their ROMs and leave. We all take criticism in life. Some run, some brush it off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree to a point, just if anyone runs off Master I'm forming a mob with pitchforks and torches...

I have plenty of respect for the few guys who make a few useful programs, and I don't think I've ever bashed a dev's work openly. But:
ScooterG said:
No one but the Dev can pull their ROMs and leave. We all take criticism in life. Some run, some brush it off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
/Twerd.
Gotta give respect to receive, and some devs just think they are God's gift to Captain Taco. It's the Internet - no one gets respect on the 'tubes. Who gives a ****. The growing up really neds to happen on the part of most of these "I'm pouty b/c someone said something crass about some weekend work I did" "developers."
Drewstein said:
I agree to a point, just if anyone runs off Master I'm forming a mob with pitchforks and torches...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
McMaster should shrink his huge sig. It's a symptom of my point: get over your self importance. There are (good) forums on the 'Net that enforce a 5-line or 100px tall rule (vs. his 300px +).
Again, not bashing the work, just the attitude, as presented.
-bZj

Agree ...........great post clear concise and to the point. Funny, that a 16 year old can articulate the basics of good behavior that most in here do not practice. I do not blame a lot of the devs leaving, people rag on their work give nothing but complaints..... as if they have the skill (yeah right).People will eagerly wait 10 min in a Starbucks line, pay 5.00 for a coffee and never donate to the dev, XDA or anything........then complain when the custom rom they got for free doesn't work the WAY they like or want......... talk about selfish irony...........
Great post !! kevipapo1 (from a guy old enough to be your grandpa )

i agree with it. people need to remember that without dev. we would all be running stock

If master leaves I'll suicide.
I hope ur reading this, master

Unfortunately this is the interwebz and this is has its been in any android forum I've ventured through. As you are young, but yet seem to be fairly wise, I say to you "welcome to the world my friend!"

Very good post.
Most criticism is from lack of knowledge/education. People don't understand how difficult it is to develop a ROM. So they criticise what they don't understand because it inconveniences them.
However, I will disagree somewhat with developer criticism. Although, I don't agree with the way Master handled the situation, I can relate.
I believe it is very important for us to realize that ROM developers are not public figures. They have the freedom to stop and start as they please. Their passion is development, after all, not public relations.
Kudos OP. Excellent post!
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

I just want to say thanks to all Developers here at XDA. Without you and your ROMS or tweaks i wouldn't have the great phone i have today that i spent my hard earned money on, and to the immature people if something doesn't work right on a ROM insted of being an ASS!!! and saying how crappy it is say whats wrong and they will fix it they have for me.
Again thanks to all who have helped you don't even know me but you all are ready to help at anytime day or night.
GARY

I personally am 15 and have been in xda since 13
I appreciate the devs for all their work if it wasn't for them i would have killed myself with many frustrations of a stock vibrant
I hate that some are immature and that some get really irritating i understand that some are new but some just get on nerves.
I wish eugene came back because he was.one of the first devs here
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

This is a great post & I echo the op's sentiments. This forum and the devs that contribute to it are a phenomenal resource to all of us and deserve to be treated with respect as we all do. The real shame is that a 16 yr old realizes this more than most of us adults (some of which are in name only). I've been in these forums for only a short time and the amount of immaturity, cynacism and deconstructive criticism I have seen is truly apalling and frankly I'm suprised more haven't bailed. I guess the Golden Rule isn't important when you've got the anonymity of the internet.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App

Lethal_NFS said:
I also think that those developing roms need to understand that a lot of members are teenagers that do not what respect is. I myself am 30yrs old and I know that there are more members that are much younger and very childish. The devs need to not take it out on the entire forum. There are more members that appreciate their work than there are that do not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just because someone is childish does NOT mean that they are a child.
I've seen many adults that throw a tantrum worse than a 5 year old and many 5 year olds who act like they're going on 30.
Likely their age has nothing to do with it & its just a reflection of their random genetics and/or crappy parenting.
down8 said:
McMaster should shrink his huge sig. It's a symptom of my point: get over your self importance. There are (good) forums on the 'Net that enforce a 5-line or 100px tall rule (vs. his 300px +).
Again, not bashing the work, just the attitude, as presented.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If its an issue, then xda should make a max image/sig size (like you mentioned other sites do). That simple.
Most of his signature tells you to search & read the XDA rules before posting, not really bad advice & since he has to answer questions from many people who don't do either, I can't really blame him.
It would be a LOT more aesthetically pleasing if it were text only, but since XDA allows it, I don't really have a problem with it.
Most of the devs have developed a bit of an attitude (I've seen it from Eugene, SomBionix, Master, and a few others) because of the crap they have to deal with & XDA not enforcing their own rules (this is supposed to have changed after the town hall meeting).

i have been on xda since 2005, left came back etc etc, i do minor edits and coding here and there for myself because i dont have the time like these other people. but honestly most people need to get over themselves. this is a strong community and will live on without you. that said this community has made some people millionaires and others just brats who want the limelight. the idea behind this site is to take the software into our own hands. its us vs. corporations. if devs want to leave cool stfu about it and go but keep in mind that unless you have a contributed to the community dont complain about someones work. devs know what come when you start producing products. its the same that companys deal with. most leave because they get their feelings hurt. its not like people are stalking you and breaking your kneecaps because angry birds wouldnt play during their lunchbreak. ignore the negative and stay or wine and leave. but this place or any place wont change. the more successful you get the harder your skin must be

About me and why it all got under my skin.
James / jellette / Heathen
39 year old, married, father of 3
<Edited out line, too personal>
I look around and see Darky, Doc, Jim, Eugene, TW and everyone else doing Gingerbread clones - and they aren't called "Copy Cat" - but when I do it I am. That makes a guy pretty darn mad.
I set out to do the latest Rom 100% from scratch without drawing from the work of any existing Rom specifically because of my relationship with TW. The takers out there have no idea how much work goes into doing that.
Here was and continues to be the process with PepperKake.
1. Download the JL5 Rom from samfirmware.com
2. Odin to get a feel for the new firmware.
3. Rip the files from factoryfs.rfs
4. Release the first flashable Odexed recovery safe JL5 by 30 minutes
5. Deodex the apps and jars - on this build I was unsuccessful deodexing swype and I used krylon360's swype and credited him for that.
6. Download the Nexus S dump
7. Pull all of the images I needed out of framework-res.apk and SystemUi.apk and the original bootanimation.zip and the icon out of every matching Gingerbread app
8. Carefully build the theme, re-mod the Gingerbread Launcher and create the faux crt shutdown sequence.
9. Rip the gps files from the Nexus S dump including permissions for gps and maps and restructure JL5 to call these files
10. Replace with 3E recovery, ensure the sdcard mounts, etc..
11. Flash and fix 219 times until it is 99% bug free and ready for an Alpha release.
As you can see, this is not a weekend cooked rom as put earlier in the thread.
I update my roms usually once a day until it is complete, I fulfill requests for kernel flash packs for the rom, etc..
I did get pretty angry and pulled my roms - I later replaced the most recent rom. I also set up my website as a backup, which is quickly becoming my primary release source. I will stay around xda though like it or not.
On those who have followed me to the new site in support: Thank you.
Finally, a very short word on TW.
I have nothing but respect for these guys. I learned everything from them.
And that is my word on this.

[???]Captain Obvious asks a dumb question

OK here goes, the question that is probably obvious to alot of the dev types on these forums, and maybe to some of the non as well. (And yes I full expect to get flamed throughout this thread for my thoughts on this so bring it on).
Question?
Has the business model of the world become so internallized that companies such as our beloved samsung *cough cough choke* , and tmobile really think that they can turn a a semi-blind eye (yes I know that they are aware we root, and flash custom roms) to the incredible talent that is out there? And that becasue they are the giant that the masses will still support them?
Now my thoughts
Samsung has taken months to produce a version of froyo that they could put out to the masses, I really do believe that tmobile plays a heavy part in that as well, adding the bloat and crap that we inevidably remove. Both of them together are to blame.
Now at the same time we have these teams of programmers and graphic artists, designers, and coders that within days (sometimes hours) of new source being leaked they have built stable, custom roms, themes, mods, kernels, lagfixes,,,etc. And these make our phones into what samsung could have only dreamed about.
Also you will never convince me that the leaks are not at times done to help samsung, tmobile, or whoever fix a problem they can't figure out INTERNALLY. (back to the internal business question again)
Now stay with me and remember that I am only questioning big business practices and arrogance,,,don't hate on me!!!
To me the answer to all of this is obvious in the dreamwold state that I am in, so here is what I really don't understand,,
Why are Samsung and T-Mobile not contracting with Teams like Team Whiskey, and Master to build custom roms, with designers like Jdan, and Tonicacid to build themes, with Eugene and Krylon360, chainfire, Whitehawkx, and supercurio, to build custom kernels, and modems? (I know i missed alot of talent,,,sorry if I missed you)
Yes, I like having the opportunity to get all this for free. (BTW I have at one time or another donated to almost everyone I mentioned above. If i use your stuff and like it I pay for it) Giving the source code to these people and contracting them to build freely (freedom is the key to the builds) would benefit everyone I think. I would pay $10 for a rom, $5 for a cool theme, and $2or $3 for a cool mod.Doesnt sound like much, but the quantity of those out there doing it would generate a sizeable amount of money. In fact I am sure that there are people with the means to request a complete custom setup for the right price, and you know that to have a truly one of a kind set up with custom icons coloring and such people would pay for it. And if these were available in a controlled setting that johnny homeowner could do safely, or have done at a store, the possibilities are limitless.
I can understand the potential liability of people flashing their phones, and bricking, but I'm sure that problem could be somehow solved (to a point there are always stupid people out there).
Ideas? Thoughts? Rants?,,,
I am now officially off my sopabox, let the hating begin,,,,,

Let me tell you why, because people who works at sansumg...for them its a job. On the other hand for the devs here, its a passion or hobbit. When is the last time you see someone going to their office and enjoys their work? So they dont work as fast or even.slacks off here and there. Not many right? Also. The dev here can get away with posting rom that bricks because they usually have a disclaimure reliefing them of responsibilities, samsung doesnt get that with tmobile or the public thus it takes them longer to make sure everything works, and because of that they cant try more radical approches like those being incorporated into the roms here. Monetary support is also a factor, supporting an old phone doesnt make you money, unless you charge for firmware update like apple used to.

Like any other big business there are many different players with many different desires. That's the game of politics... They have to take into account the liability they could take on by using something that could cost them too much money....
That being said...I completely agree with you! They need to take on the talent that the world has to offer. Android is Open Source for a reason...to allow for everyone to throw their ideas at it. Google has given everyone the opportunity to show what they can do. I appreciate the Devs we have here on XDA. If anything I would like to thank all the hard working Devs & XDA for giving us a centralized place to access all the riches the world has to offer.

PaiPiePia said:
The dev here can get away with posting rom that bricks because they usually have a disclaimure reliefing them of responsibilities, samsung doesnt get that with tmobile or the public thus it takes them longer to make sure everything works, and because of that they cant try more radical approches like those being incorporated into the roms here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is exactly the reason. Let's not pretend that everything the devs do here is perfect. It's not.

PaiPiePia said:
The dev here can get away with posting rom that bricks because they usually have a disclaimure reliefing them of responsibilities
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hang on there PeePants. These devs are GIVING their work away! They do their best to beta release them first! And there is almost NO SUCH THING AS "A ROM THAT BRICKS YOUR PHONE" since it is so easy to Odin back.
pdefazio said:
This is exactly the reason. Let's not pretend that everything the devs do here is perfect. It's not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nor do you have any right to demand perfection. Maybe that's why they call it 'Development'!!!

The devs on here for the most part do it as a hobby. The amount of work whether it be hours or days, that goes into some of these roms ANNDDDD(for emphasis) the UPDATTTEESSS, we as a consumer would say eff that I can't afford this anymore.
Big business is in the market of making money with as little effort or cost as possible. Hardware is cheap, easy and linear so they grab the consumers attention by advertising this amazing machine's specs. The "average consumer guy" just sees blinking lights and "I am a man because of my awesome phone specs" stuff and buys it no questions asked. Out of 50 customers I can only assume 1 might come in and ask which version of Android is running on their phone.
We are a small SMALL % of their market so why would they bring in these amazing teams to update and develop if they can pay someone to get as little as possible on the table to satisfy the average consumer.
You want to share with the world? Get a 3rd party license to develop with T-Mobile and/or Samsung, which btw will cost you Millions, then hire on these guys and sell their "labor"(since Android is open source). Once all that is done, tell me how you plan to turn a profit at $5-10 or even $20 a ROM. Again, once contracted the devs will be charging for updates(labor) as well.
No flaming needed here, actually a good conversation.

Yes, they are ignoring talent, but companies don't give a **** about anything until it starts impacting their bottom line.
I've always been a firm of believer of "vote with your money." This is the first Samsung smart phone I've ever bought and every month that passes with Samsung ignoring the GPS issue cements my thought that it will also be the last.
We can lament all we want, but if next year you go and buy another Samsung phone/product, you're doing nothing to change things.

No.
Sorry to rain on your parade, but no dev that doesn't work with samsung can't.
The devs here are strictily MODIFIERS.
samsung is.the.creator.
Without them we have nothing.
They leak out kernels, and our devs modify to make it faster and stable.
NO dev here can make drivers for your phone.NO DEV can make kernels without using something from samsung.
I understand why u all hate samsung but be thankful their atleast giving leaks.
Also I agree with the guy above the devs here have an excuse , "u didn't read the disclaimer"
Also there have been plenty of roms that brick users.

hellcatrydr said:
Hang on there PeePants. These devs are GIVING their work away! They do their best to beta release them first! And there is almost NO SUCH THING AS "A ROM THAT BRICKS YOUR PHONE" since it is so easy to Odin back.
Nor do you have any right to demand perfection. Maybe that's why they call it 'Development'!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Obviously you can't hold a proper, intelligent and civil conversation without resorting to name calling and fanboy attitude. This is the second time you called me pee pants for no reason, you sir are going on my ignore list.
blizzard1017 said:
The devs on here for the most part do it as a hobby. The amount of work whether it be hours or days, that goes into some of these roms ANNDDDD(for emphasis) the UPDATTTEESSS, we as a consumer would say eff that I can't afford this anymore.
Big business is in the market of making money with as little effort or cost as possible. Hardware is cheap, easy and linear so they grab the consumers attention by advertising this amazing machine's specs. The "average consumer guy" just sees blinking lights and "I am a man because of my awesome phone specs" stuff and buys it no questions asked. Out of 50 customers I can only assume 1 might come in and ask which version of Android is running on their phone.
We are a small SMALL % of their market so why would they bring in these amazing teams to update and develop if they can pay someone to get as little as possible on the table to satisfy the average consumer.
You want to share with the world? Get a 3rd party license to develop with T-Mobile and/or Samsung, which btw will cost you Millions, then hire on these guys and sell their "labor"(since Android is open source). Once all that is done, tell me how you plan to turn a profit at $5-10 or even $20 a ROM. Again, once contracted the devs will be charging for updates(labor) as well.
No flaming needed here, actually a good conversation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Learn from this guy, he saw the situation from the same point of view as me, and he expanded on it rather than flaming.

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