Related
I would like to look towards the admins and moderators for guidance on where this should be placed. But I would like to start a bounty on Android 2.0 for the G1. The device has aged gracefully for most of us due to the tireless efforts of the devs here, and I think its time for us, or at least me, to give something back. I am having a hard time even considering a device made by another manufacturer, when ATT 3G bands are available, based on the sole fact that I wouldn't be able to come here and get the hotted builds and customizations.
I would like to start a donation or bounty, most likely through paypal, that anyone could contribute to, to be paid out to the developer that manages to squeeze a usable and feature complete build of 2.0 onto the G1. No I am not quite sure how to decide who wins, but it's just something I would like to see done. I will start of the bounty/donations with a 100USD bid if we can come up with guidelines to follow.
Just a thought..what does everyone else think?
Jubeh dropped a 2.0 rom today. Maxisma, ccyrowski, and cyanogen are all working on 2.0 roms. It sounds like you were thinking it would take an act of god to get 2.0 on the G1. It doesn't. However, the best devs are presently working on it.
Not that bad of an idea. I don't think the dev challenge on the market pays out to any of these custom roms, only apps developed and put on the market. However, I don't know if there is a dev out there that a possible $1,500 will make much of a difference to. I'd think that they would be work on these roms anyway.
Quite the contrary, I know it will happen fast, and I see that only minutes ago a rom was release, but I think we all can agree, no google sync, market, camera, etc..is hardly a fully functional daily driver. It usually takes several iterations of any one rom to get it stable and fully functioning.
Beside that, IMHO, isn't the point, the point was that I wanted to find a way to show my thanks and gratitude to the devs who crank out great software without slapping a pricetag on it. I think that all work should be rewarded, same as the linux projects I contribute too. The G1 is the oldest, slowest device with the least ram...however, I still cling to my precious because of the work thee guys here do, that keep it feeling fresh and as peppy as a spring chicken.
I just thought I might put the idea out to the community, rather than making individual small donations myself to individuals.
unchainedrssr said:
Not that bad of an idea. I don't think the dev challenge on the market pays out to any of these custom roms, only apps developed and put on the market. However, I don't know if there is a dev out there that a possible $1,500 will make much of a difference to. I'd think that they would be work on these roms anyway.
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Yup, they will crank them out regardless lol. But as a engineer by day, I know those little gift cards and small rewards for excellence from mgmt DO go a long way. As a photographer, consultant, and web designer by nite, those big tips that were necessary go a very very long way.
if you want to donate, donate directly to whichever dev you feel deserves it.
im holding out til cyanogen gets 2.0 running, im sure it wont take him long.
Its already being worked on. Cyanogen would of won this hands down though! ;-)
G1-evolve said:
Its already being worked on. Cyanogen would of won this hands down though! ;-)
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Yeah. it may just be to late to consider at this point, maybe next time. Cyanogen is a beast, but Jubeh's rom got out the gate pretty fast! I am surprised to see the solid performance without a tremendous amount of kernel hacking.
i dont think this is a good idea... you might end up with dev's spitting out roms that seems complete and good, but because of the rush and competition the quality underneath isnt that great.(i doubt it would happen cause i dont believe android devs would this, but you never know! esepecially if the bounty would become like 100's of dollars)
like that one guy said just donate to whoever you think deserves it. i'd probably split it up.. give a good big portion to cyanogen.. and then all the other devs that help make these awesome mods possible
Waiting for drivers...
At this point we are waiting on new qualcomm drivers to allow hardware accelerated encoding/decoding. We don't quite have all of the piece to the puzzle needed to get a fully functional Eclair build for the ADP1 from AOSP source.
I'm not knocking the idea suggested here. I'm all for donating to your dev of choice. Just letting some of you know why we are in a holding pattern.
It may very well NOT be in the best interest of the community, which is why I put it out there, it sounds like most people thus far don't feel like its a good idea. Whether it's the vocal minority, or a representative majority, is yet to be seen.
Either way, thanks for the update TheGreenJester, my thumbs are already aching with anticipation.
Just let them be. The devs will release these things when it is ready. Don't pressure them. Giving them these huge amounts of donations like a bounty will only give them pressure
Like someone mentioned, putting a significant monetary incentive on release will only cause developers to spit out subpar ROMs. I'm sure Cyanogen and some others could have a more or less functioning ROM out within hours or just a few days, but it would be immensely slow and probably lacking here or there, with an abundance of bugs. It'd be nearly impossible to judge who releases the first "complete" ROM, since there are so many debateable factors comprising "completeness."
Overall, I'm sure the developers are working as quickly as possible to get their ROMs out, so I don't think they need any more incentive. Of course, donations should be made to thank them, but they should be made to different developers from different people. Rather than leave all but one developer with nothing, users should save their money until a ROM is released, and donate to that developer if they believe that ROM is the best. You know, spread the wealth around.
It's a nice thought, but definitely unnecessary.
Besides, I doubt anyone would be willing to send money over to someone with only 18 posts. No offense, but the internet is full of crooks.
what if we made a 4,5,or 6 dev group together to design the 1 big rom and all the donates went to them, not saying all but ive noticed a good bit of donations are based on fanfare. just sayin.
interesting thread
Actually
veritasaequita said:
what if we made a 4,5,or 6 dev group together to design the 1 big rom and all the donates went to them, not saying all but ive noticed a good bit of donations are based on fanfare. just sayin.
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That's not a bad idea, hmm..
Moved to the appropriate thread as off now.
veritasaequita said:
what if we made a 4,5,or 6 dev group together to design the 1 big rom and all the donates went to them, not saying all but ive noticed a good bit of donations are based on fanfare. just sayin.
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Click to collapse
Too many cooks in the kitchen.
People have different styles, different ways of going about things, and it just seems like forcing a couple developers together wouldn't really help. Besides, some variety is good for everyone.
I mean, everyone's been waiting for this update for months; a fully working version by any number of developers is probably no more than a week away, if that. Just have some patience and let the developers do their thing, and then donate when someone comes up with something you like.
No need to disturb the status quo.
Hi,
the idea is not bad, but without HTC drivers it will be not possible to get full working 2.0 build (Camera ... etc).
I think all the devs waiting for the drivers to make stable 2.0 roms.
this thread should be closed now
RE: ▽▲ AXURA Vibrant Edition ▼△ Development Stopped.
First I'd like to say that was a punk move. Secondly, there's plenty of other great ROMs out there. I'm not sad, nor upset. I'm not going to kiss Master's ass. (I'm a software developer, I could take my own time to do this same ****) I'm also not going to flame or trash him (That'd be a waste of bandwidth and time).
The politics on these forums is ridiculous. You get something for free and then everyone *****es when things don't go their way. Devs take their personal time to provide you with something 'cool' or 'different' and you have a few select people ruining it for others. I don't 100% agree with 'Donating' to get 'early releases', but whatever. It is what it is. I'll roll with 2.0.6 AKA Axura Final until I get bored or something different catches my eye.
I'll admit, I really liked the theming done to it. I'm so sick of black and stupid ugly colors (I have a bit of a desiger background) that a lot of people call 'cool' or thinks 'looks great!'. And after searching for a ROM that didn't look like total ****, I actually considered getting involved in the theming community. We'll see.
Haters will hate.
I'm just taken away by this, I go out to eat with ole girl, come back and everything is stopped. I'm keeping 2.1 one for a while now, its destined to be a relic. But it is a damn good ROM, and skoal had to **** it up for everyone. I am sure he has recieved TONS of PMs from pissed off followers of Master, and rightfully so. However, I will not partake in anything like that.
I'm hoping this is just a phase that will blow over. Master came out of no where, it a place dominated by the "heavy hitters" and made a name for himself.
Good, mature post.
When somethings turns from being appreciated into being expected...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
I don't understand why a single leak is being blown so big.
How do you think we got the froyo release? ---(Leaked)
You dont see samsung *****ing and pouting about stopping development (which is minimal anyway).
I am running the captivate port for the 2.0 rom and hands down it is the fastest and most stable rom in our rom dev.
xtremekilla09 said:
I don't understand why a single leak is being blown so big.
How do you think we got the froyo release? ---(Leaked)
You dont see samsung *****ing and pouting about stopping development (which is minimal anyway).
I am running the captivate port for the 2.0 rom and hands down it is the fastest and most stable rom in our rom dev.
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Click to collapse
Its not all WHAT was done, but what was SAID, and how it went down. Blatant disrespect.
xtremekilla09 said:
I don't understand why a single leak is being blown so big.
How do you think we got the froyo release? ---(Leaked)
You dont see samsung *****ing and pouting about stopping development (which is minimal anyway).
I am running the captivate port for the 2.0 rom and hands down it is the fastest and most stable rom in our rom dev.
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Click to collapse
+1
When we try to stop the leaking of leaked roms then I think it's getting out of control.
I can fully appreciate Master +all the other devs for the work but the fact is, one person gets the rom early and Master calls foul... big deal. Get over it. I wonder how many leaked roms from other devs have fallen into Master's lap.
+1
couped said:
Good, mature post.
When somethings turns from being appreciated into being expected...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
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Exactly my thoughts.
razormy said:
+1
When we try to stop the leaking of leaked roms then I think it's getting out of control.
I can fully appreciate Master +all the other devs for the work but the fact is, one person gets the rom early and Master calls foul... big deal. Get over it. I wonder how many leaked roms from other devs have fallen into Master's lap.
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This is the first I've been involved with any ROM outside of the G1 realm (CyanogenMod) and I don't know of any other project where you can donate to get special treatment. Honestly, that's where the problem started. Dealing with money and VIP status. Cyanogen doesn't release anything until he's ready. Mainly so he can avoid the barrage of "X doesn't work, plz/fix/k/thx!". I also don't think if a few people get ZOMG v6.0.1.2-FINAL, that he'd be too upset.
There is a sense of quality control. You don't want a lot of people to get an early release to prevent the spamming of complaints. It's distracting and takes away from your project plan. If this was a real dev shop there'd be a bug tracking list and a handful of devs hacking away at their assigned tickets.
Overall, (both parties included, or and I guess the leaker too) it's a punk move. What are we? 12? (Sometimes I think we are! after all the bickering I read)
Meh... :|
It is a shame. While I wasn't going to donate to get a pre-release copy, I was going to donate after the final version was released assuming it worked fine as a thank you for his hard work (I had a few issues with 2.05 and was waiting before flashing again).
It is his right though, even if it is confusing when considering the circumstances of how these types of ROMs got started in the first place.
This forum is so crappy now..
everyone wants rewarded and begs for money
Master I thought was the worse...
icebrkr said:
This is the first I've been involved with any ROM outside of the G1 realm (CyanogenMod) and I don't know of any other project where you can donate to get special treatment. Honestly, that's where the problem started. Dealing with money and VIP status. Cyanogen doesn't release anything until he's ready. Mainly so he can avoid the barrage of "X doesn't work, plz/fix/k/thx!". I also don't think if a few people get ZOMG v6.0.1.2-FINAL, that he'd be too upset.
There is a sense of quality control. You don't want a lot of people to get an early release to prevent the spamming of complaints. It's distracting and takes away from your project plan. If this was a real dev shop there'd be a bug tracking list and a handful of devs hacking away at their assigned tickets.
Overall, (both parties included, or and I guess the leaker too) it's a punk move. What are we? 12? (Sometimes I think we are! after all the bickering I read)
Meh... :|
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Click to collapse
Agreed. Thanks for this thread. I hated reading the last one because of all the nonsense. A new rom will come and the fools will be foolish.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
kingrat said:
This forum is so crappy now..
everyone wants rewarded and begs for money
Master I thought was the worse...
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Let's not trash talk or name names... ok?
problem with forums like this
The problem with forums like this is they break out something like this:
10% 12-18
40% 19-26
40% 27-45
10% 46-60+ (where I fall into)
So, since age and maturity is the problem (or lack of maturity) there is no way to regulate that, not in an open forum....we are just left to self regulation........and as such, it will always be imperfect.
What is important is to be respectful and mature in the treatment (doing what they ask) of each other. The leaked rom from one friend to another is not really the core issue...........it is the public proclamation "Hey I got over on you" that demonstrates both the lack of respect and lack of maturity. This adolescent behavior (which the guilty one thinks is cute) damages our experience in this forum or in other forums. A Shame really.......
This forum gets ridiculous full of ungrateful people it really ruins development of great phones, people start to think they deserve something that was given out of good faith to help them hence original 2.2 leak
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Lets see if I can say this without sounding rude... Fok master, do the **** your self, a lot of his **** is off leaked stuff and others work...
he should be happy someone wanted his **** that bad...
By the way donating for a early release isn't a donation, thats a payment..... Never using his rom again, imma go stock and make the rom myself, you all could to its simple....
EDIT: Hell I remember when Master was trying to over run BIONIX lol Dude was all in their business... Trying to side help their ****. Man common Master, This is a punk move, for this You will never get a second look from me... Peace man, Just needed them donations/ Payments huh
Not allowing people to distribute his ROM is a violation of the GPL. He may ask, but he has no basis to. He built a ROM based on pre-released code and Open Source code and has no valid position to stop the same. Sure, he can get pissy if people do, that is certainly his right, but the moment he makes it available to anyone that person clearly has the right to distribute it unless it has actual proprietary software on it.
The person asking was within their rights
The person who gave it out was within their rights
Master getting pissed and stopping further development for people exercising their rights is completely within his rights.
Life goes on, shame, I was waiting for 2.1, time to move on.
kingrat said:
This forum is so crappy now..
everyone wants rewarded and begs for money
Master I thought was the worse...
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I've seen you in Master's thread, you've contributed nothing but disrespect and you're part of the reason he closed his thread.
FYI, Master isn't discontinuing development. He is choosing not to share with XDA. Anyone that is interested in his work can still find it on his forum.
Seems a lot of Devs are keeping their work on their own sites. From what I've seen on this site in the last few weeks, I don't blame them.
I think it's messed up for those that paid for his roms now to get no support.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
First of all thanks for making this thread OP. I want to get a few things out here as well.
Very immature on the part of everyone involved. Seriously grow up and get on with it.
This donation stuff is nothing more than payment and that is right. But the payment isn't so much for the software as it is the help in putting it together and getting it all to play nice. Sure you could piece it all together yourself if you had enough free time it isn't THAT hard. Or like me if your time is more valuable you can sling homeboy <INSERT NAME HERE> $10 and have him put it together for you. I value my time greatly and I lead a very busy life so I am very happy paying someone $10 if it even saves 30 minutes of my day. I am highly skilled and do computer security work for a living so it has nothing to do with knowledge or ability.
So lets make that clear. You are donating for their time not the actual software itself. Some of these guys spend a ton of time on their ROMs and if I can get that for a piddly $10-$25 donation then I say that is a deal. And on top of that he even offers personalized support when this ROM doesn't work.
I don't think the issue here is requiring donations because if they didn't nobody would donate so that is only fair. And it is more than reasonable for them to try to get some reward for time and effort invested. Especially if they have a website to support!
jnutz said:
First of all thanks for making this thread OP. I want to get a few things out here as well.
Very immature on the part of everyone involved. Seriously grow up and get on with it.
This donation stuff is nothing more than payment and that is right. But the payment isn't so much for the software as it is the help in putting it together and getting it all to play nice. Sure you could piece it all together yourself if you had enough free time it isn't THAT hard. Or like me if your time is more valuable you can sling homeboy <INSERT NAME HERE> $10 and have him put it together for you. I value my time greatly and I lead a very busy life so I am very happy paying someone $10 if it even saves 30 minutes of my day. I am highly skilled and do computer security work for a living so it has nothing to do with knowledge or ability.
So lets make that clear. You are donating for their time not the actual software itself. Some of these guys spend a ton of time on their ROMs and if I can get that for a piddly $10-$25 donation then I say that is a deal. And on top of that he even offers personalized support when this ROM doesn't work.
I don't think the issue here is requiring donations because if they didn't nobody would donate so that is only fair. And it is more than reasonable for them to try to get some reward for time and effort invested. Especially if they have a website to support!
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I couldn't agree more.
This is becoming more and more common. Does it bother anybody else? I mean i dont lose sleep over it, but it kind of ruins the "community" feel and turns things into more of a business.
Donations are slowly turning into payments. This is precisely why i PERSONALLY never believed in the word donation in the development world, but lets not get into that debate.
I mean, if a dev/dev team is really good, im sure they get more than enough donations to fund their work, seeing as though im always seeing people on the forums talk about how theyll donate or how much they donated. I feel like whats happening is a dev/dev team starts out strong, and at first is just soaking up the notoriety amongst users, and understandably so. But as time goes, and their knowledge and popularity grows, they realize "hey, we could probably make some serious money off this" but then they realize that that just goes against the whole "doing it in your free time" or "doing what we love doing" concepts, so they insist on continuing to label it a "donation".
Let me be clear, I have absolutely no problem with a dev/dev team expecting money in order to grant access to something that is popular. Thats what a lot of governments are founded on, and these guys definitely deserve a little spending money for all of the smiles they put on peoples faces. I just dont like the abuse of the word "donation" that takes place. Why dont you just say "you have to pay for it"? Cause thats pretty much what is going down......
This isnt directed at anyone in particular, im simply curious to see how other people feel about it.
I feel the same way. Label it as payment/charge/etc and it will be good. Just dont use the word donation when only a donation gets the user access to an area of forums, kernels, roms, other, software. Its just not correct to do
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
It's incredibly silly. In many cases these people are charging for tweaking something that they didn't create and don't even have the rights to redistribute.
When you get right down to it, every ROM here that's built off of one of the leaked Froyo builds is in murky territory. Although parts of those leaks are GPL'd, there are tons of proprietary Samsung bits in there, and if Samsung felt like it they could slap everybody with a C&D on redistributing that stuff.
On the one hand, the people who distribute leaks (and tweaked ROMs based off of those leaks) for free are taking risks by doing so, and they're doing it to help the community. But on the other, you have people who take those leaks, apply their own tweaks to them, and then charge for the completed product. Those guys are basically profiting from the work that others took a risk in releasing to the public, which is ridiculous.
The best way to deal with it is to not simply not "donate" to people who pull such shenanigans.
JeremyNT said:
It's incredibly silly. In many cases these people are charging for tweaking something that they didn't create and don't even have the rights to redistribute.
When you get right down to it, every ROM here that's built off of one of the leaked Froyo builds is in murky territory. Although parts of those leaks are GPL'd, there are tons of proprietary Samsung bits in there, and if Samsung felt like it they could slap everybody with a C&D on redistributing that stuff.
On the one hand, the people who distribute leaks (and tweaked ROMs based off of those leaks) for free are taking risks by doing so, and they're doing it to help the community. But on the other, you have people who take those leaks, apply their own tweaks to them, and then charge for the completed product. Those guys are basically profiting from the work that others took a risk in releasing to the public, which is ridiculous.
The best way to deal with it is to not simply not "donate" to people who pull such shenanigans.
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Its very important that we dont mention names, to avoid flaming.....but i know exactly who you are talking about in particular....
The trend started with kingklick and everyone was all up in arms about it
But eventually the rest of the developers followed and now its OK for them and they accept it LOL hypocrites
This is another reason making my decision on NS much easier
Some real development will be underway i miss my N1 XDA support back in the day
Not that i dont appreciate what others have done here just most of it wasn't my cup of tea with exception of Eugene's work
But he left for a reasonable reason too much BS but his work is still freely available
It would be nice to hear a devs take on this but on the other hand this could just start a huge ordeal I understand what you guys are saying but I don't think this thread is going to help any development at all in fact it may even be counter productive the dev group is growing for the vibrant but I wouldn't say there are enough devs to start pissing people off and making them lose interest in xda all together if its not one thing its another nothing is free in this world eventually if you want something ahead of everyone else you gotta pony up the cash I went to a street fair once at the gate was a booth labeled donations they didn't deny me access when I refused to pay but I didn't enjoy the full access everyone else did when they received theyre wrist bands that got them free drinks your not paying to get in your paying for the cause and the work and the time it takes to create something that millions can enjoy ......i wouldn't get to butt hurt about it its the way of the world be it in day to day life forums or whatever else you think it applies to just my opinion we're all entitled to them I suppose
V5 custom vibrant
I take back allot of what i said apparently some are still releasing roms here
willsnews said:
It would be nice to hear a devs take on this but on the other hand this could just start a huge ordeal I understand what you guys are saying but I don't think this thread is going to help any development at all in fact it may even be counter productive the dev group is growing for the vibrant but I wouldn't say there are enough devs to start pissing people off and making them lose interest in xda all together if its not one thing its another nothing is free in this world
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In terms of my opinion, and what im trying to say, the paragraph in bold in the OP highlights my exact problem. I understand the concept and the need for devs to ask for money in whatever form, and i have absolutely no issue with that. But thats what they are, PAYMENTS. The only thing im questioning is why they insist on calling them donations. They are not donations when they are in the format of a transaction.
do·na·tion noun \dō-ˈnā-shən\
Definition of DONATION
: the act or an instance of donating: as a : the making of a gift especially to a charity or public institution b : a free contribution : gift
trans·ac·tion noun \tran-ˈzak-shən, tran(t)-ˈsak-\
Definition of TRANSACTION
1a : something transacted; especially : an exchange or transfer of goods, services, or funds <electronic transactions>
Theres just something about it that seems a bit unethical to me, almost like a bit of a marketing scam. "Donate" has a much friendlier, less threatening tone to it than "payment". Maybe theres a mindset in place that people will be more inclined to "donate" rather than "pay". Im just trying to figure out why they cant just call it like it is.
Regardless of how you may feel about it, theres no question that sometimes it feels like our "community" is faltering in favor of making money.
------------
In terms of the devs leaving XDA because of threads like this? i mean come on, we are talking about word definitions here...not insulting peoples families.....
Donation: ASK for CONTRIBUTIONS DURING development
Payment: REQUIRE COMPENSATION for COMPLETED product
I haven't ever seen a developer require payment for a complete product here on XDA. Some give early access to buggy ROMs and kernels, but that's it.
I don't. see anyone asking for a payment to get a full version of a rom. some gets it early when you donated but still the ones who didn't still gets the rom later. If that's how they want it to be then let it be.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Used to have "buy me a beer" links up at the most a couple of years ago. Seems there was more collaboration among devs like LucidRem who was super nice on G1 apps to SD. Was constantly being tweaked by seperate devs to get a better partition solution for example.
Don't blame me, blame my keyboard's autocorrection algorithm.
Any developer that does that is very clearly breaking the law. They could be very easily sued by anyone that cared.
Haha, even if that's true, which I don't think it is.....i think that would be taking things just a tad too far
Sent from my pocket rocket!
I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM WITH IT!!
I have been on with Android since Day 1. XDA and the developers who come here are the only reason I am so passionate about my phone and android. Without these 2 things a large part of my "hobby" would be severely hampered.
Developers do a tremendous amount for us. Can you imagine being on JI6 right now? I feel that they get barely anything in donations.... if this is a method for them to beta with a small group and reward those who support them/him, than I think they should take advanatage of that... and if it leads to developers earning a bit more than they would normally, awesome for them.
Cause you know what....
When developers are happy.... WE are all happy!!!
I mean come on, they release them to the public anyway.... is it okay for you to whine about not getting something sooner, that you had no part in creating/making.... what gives YOU the right???
PS, both R14 and Nero_Beta are very tasty... can't wait to get my hands on Axura 2.2 soon also.
maybe we should point out who the REAL developers are, and who are the wannabe's like people that take others work and just theme it.
Maybe just maybe then, these people that are rushing to hand over fists of money would donate to the people that actually put things out, and not the winzip blender wannabe's.
I "had" respect for some of these people until I first hand decompiled their rom to find out it wasn't there's at all. Adding a theme and transitions to Windows, does not make it mine.. how hard can that be to understand?
s15274n said:
I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM WITH IT!!I mean come on, they release them to the public anyway.... is it okay for you to whine about not getting something sooner, that you had no part in creating/making.... what gives YOU the right???.
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well i really hope youre not referring to me......i have a good paying a job and if i really wanted to pay for a ROM i would, but i dont......check my signature, i AM still runnning JI6, i dont use Macnut or Obsidian (neither ever required donations). I am speaking purely based on observation, not personal experience.
I mean if i was stuck stuck with JI6 forever, i wouldnt be thatdisappointed, because i have my phone setup exactly how i want it. Im not a fan of leaked ROMs, never have been. So i wont be waiting up all night waiting for Nero to go public either.
Please dont confuse me for one of those crybabies who just HAS to get their greedy fingers on the newest ROM right away just to be with the "in-crowd"...thats not what im about
s15274n said:
if this is a method for them to beta with a small group and reward those who support them/him, than I think they should take advanatage of that... and if it leads to developers earning a bit more than they would normally, awesome for them
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please dont misunderstand me, you have to read carefully what im trying to say....i have absolutely NO ISSUE with devs receiving money....none. they often deserve it. i just dont like the way the concept of "donating" is presented sometimes. The way you outlined it ^^ is a great way of wording the way it SHOULD be appraoched....unfortunately it isnt always approached that way, and THOSE are the instances im referring to in my OP
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_General_Public_License
This issue is that a custom ROM is built upon the work of thousands of other people that all licensed their work under the GPL because they wanted to it to be used that way. When someone takes their work and sells it, they are expressly misusing the work of others.
I think its fantastic that people are willing to put their time into developing ROMs, but at the same time it's very disrespectful and illegal to not follow the wishes of the people whose work the ROMs are built on. Ultimately, ROMs are very, very minor tweaks to what has been the result of almost twenty years and millions of man hours of work. If you want to be a part of that, that's great, but you have to play by the rules. After all, those rules are what made ROM development possible.
I can understand why they do it. Most people don't know how many hours go into just developing a theme let a long a full rom. So I understand them wanting to make some money for their time, but I also do agree with people who think they should not have a donation requirement to download, they should label it as a pay to download / theme or rom.
Here is an example of why I think devs do a required donation:
Here is the Nexus Theme I made (Did not ask for donations): http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=860198
To date this has had: 318 downloads
Amount of donations recieved: $0
Time Spent making it: 10+ Hrs
Here is the Frobuntu theme I made (Asked for Donations): http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=846285
To date this has had: 333 Downloads
Amount of donations recieved: $20
Time Spent Making it: 20+ hrs
So I can see why they do this. It makes a difference when you ask for the donations, but... again there should not be a required donation. That is called "selling" your rom/theme. They could do it the way I did the Frobuntu rom where I "Highly Suggested" a donation amount in big letters in the header of the post, but still gave it away to those who cannot pay.
Just my two cents. I would never flame or look down upon a dev for choosing to require a donation, that is their decision. I just choose not to do that myself.
No offense but most custom roms have a couple issues, needing to be fixed in the next release, meaning in a few days your gonna have to flash again, then the cycle continues, another bug so needing a new release... But the new release isn't faster, better or any cooler than the release before...lol
I'm on stock jk6 with my tweaks, my mods, and my setup, I was on customs for a bit, but all this donation crap has made me not wanting to try custom roms from anyone here, especially with all the drama :d
Needless to say I've never donated anything other than to xda itself..... I would never give my money to people just doing this for fun just like I do.... Donate to me then lol...
Anyways, id advise against donating to get a early release that ain't any better than the one before....lol
All I can say is suckeeeeers... Sorry but true, you have been hustled...
P.s. Anyone with a donate to me sign in their sig or whatever are completely retarded imo..... Lol
It's really so disappointing to see the reception given to SamsungJohn here in XDA. I know many of you are angry about the Froyo delays, but *****ing out the social media liasson won't accomplish anything.
This is the first time ever, AFAIK, that a handset manufacturer has reached out directly to the XDA community. Maybe it's all smoke and mirrors, who knows, but we won't see anything if we just reject their attempts out of hand.
And I think people need to stop with the notion that Samsung is evil or just wants to hurt users. They're a huge company; it may not have even been on the radar of the decisionmakers that we were dissatisfied.
We're in a fairly recent and novel paradigm where users expect timely software updates--a year and a half ago nobody expected that. You bought a phone and maybe there might be a firmware update somewhere down the road. And out of the millions of people who bought SGS phones, we're just a very small minority. If we want cooperation from Samsung we need to impress upon them the advantages of collaborating with devs, because honestly they're going to make billions either way. If we demonstrate that cooperation will involve crass tantrums, they'll just sell their phones to the millions of people who don't give a crap about independent development. Do we really want that kind of belligerent attitude a la Motorola? I don't know about you, but I'd rather we try to move Samsung towards us rather than away from us.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Samsung is trying to help us and we are biting our noses off just to spite our face. I think they are doing a great thing by coming on here.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Agreed...well said...both of you.
I agree that was pretty messed up. It's bad enough all the devs have been scrared away. Ex-da isn't what it used to.
I totally agree. The guy is not a decision maker at Samsung - he came here to try to get feedback about how the company can improve and people just flamed the guy relentlessly. Further proof that there are too many children and buffoons here. It's no wonder that devs loathe coming here. FYI to the guys that tore into SamsungJohn - Krylon had a good conversation with Sammy and they are looking to get in contact with Sombionix as well.
What's not on their radar with a 90% surety is timely software updates. Hardware companies are going to drag their feet as much as possible to provide software upgrades for old hardware, if they do it at all.
I don't meam any disrespect to anyone but I gotta disagree.
Samsung is a huge company but they have also been in the mobile business for quite a while and they have also been known to release products that don't quite work the way they are supposed to, just like the Vibrant and until now there was no post purchase support or at least no usable support or updates... Look at the history of the Beholds and almost any other phone they released.
Releasing a phone like the Vibrant in 2010 that lags out of the box and where the gps issues make the navigation function unusable is just not right. Stock this phone is a joke and after a few days of use it is really frustrating. They are supposed to do a lot more then just release a device after device and look at the sale numbers.
These are very expensive devices and for that kind of money they are supposed to work!
Agree or disagree with me but facts are facts. Not everyone who owns such a device will root or flash their device with a custom rom in order to make it usable. I have played with many other android phones and they all work smoother and stock a lot better than any of the galaxy s series so far...
To list some...
Htc incredible, nexus one, mytouch 4g, tmobile g2, droid x, even htc aria which is not even in the same class as above mentioned models.
If the developers on the xda forums can make this phone perform ten times better than stock, explain to me why Samsung's developers cannot do the same...
I speak for myself, but I am fed up with samsung and their quality control and I can say this was the last Samsung phone I purchased until they do something revolutionary and change my mind...
Isn't someone testing these devices for a week or two before they release them in order to make sure everything works as it should?! If they are then maybe samsung should hire someone from this forum instead...
Also why don't the phone manufacturers just make a survey on the forums for feedback from users as to what the phone should include as far as software or hardware... 2010 top tier android device without a flash for the camera is just wrong and the night mode cannot replace the flash. I do not use the camera as much but just for the sake of it they should have led flash, some people use it and want it, how expensive can it be to do that...
The Super AMOLED display is the best in my opinion for now, but it is not enough to justify the many other mistakes or flaws... The displays on other phone aren't crap either!
Sorry for the long post.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
I'm totally sympathetic to the people who are fed up and say #neveragain. But the solution to that is to complain through other channels and then never buy Samsung again.
This rep came here reaching his hand out to the dev community, and insulting him or whining does a serious disservice to everyone else here. I think he came here to try to create a mutually beneficial relationship, not take complaint tickets. Many of us are skeptical, but we think it's worth seeing if anything can come of this (and if you aren't, the actual devs are).
BorisZX6R said:
I don't meam any disrespect to anyone but I gotta disagree.
Samsung is a huge company but they have also been in the mobile business for quite a while and they have also been known to release products that don't quite work the way they are supposed to, just like the Vibrant and until now there was no post purchase support or at least no usable support or updates... Look at the history of the Beholds and almost any other phone they released.
Releasing a phone like the Vibrant in 2010 that lags out of the box and where the gps issues make the navigation function unusable is just not right. Stock this phone is a joke and after a few days of use it is really frustrating. They are supposed to do a lot more then just release a device after device and look at the sale numbers.
These are very expensive devices and for that kind of money they are supposed to work!
Agree or disagree with me but facts are facts. Not everyone who owns such a device will root or flash their device with a custom rom in order to make it usable. I have played with many other android phones and they all work smoother and stock a lot better than any of the galaxy s series so far...
To list some...
Htc incredible, nexus one, mytouch 4g, tmobile g2, droid x, even htc aria which is not even in the same class as above mentioned models.
If the developers on the xda forums can make this phone perform ten times better than stock, explain to me why Samsung's developers cannot do the same...
I speak for myself, but I am fed up with samsung and their quality control and I can say this was the last Samsung phone I purchased until they do something revolutionary and change my mind...
Isn't someone testing these devices for a week or two before they release them in order to make sure everything works as it should?! If they are then maybe samsung should hire someone from this forum instead...
Also why don't the phone manufacturers just make a survey on the forums for feedback from users as to what the phone should include as far as software or hardware... 2010 top tier android device without a flash for the camera is just wrong and the night mode cannot replace the flash. I do not use the camera as much but just for the sake of it they should have led flash, some people use it and want it, how expensive can it be to do that...
The Super AMOLED display is the best in my opinion for now, but it is not enough to justify the many other mistakes or flaws... The displays on other phone aren't crap either!
Sorry for the long post.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
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Click to collapse
I was one of those that got beholded they flat out lied on that one. Here I am again with the vibrant guessing thats samsung mo to screw ya
This rep was hosed due to his own lack of knowledge, nothing else.
He started off by filling the cool-aid cups and passing them around expecting everyone to drink freely.
"Hi, I'm SamsungJohn and I have some REALLY BIG things for everyone here"
*I'll wisely not mention that I can't answer questions about hardware or software and in fact I can't really answer a single question anyone has*
It was Samsung corporate in damage control mode,NOTHING ELSE.
Funk dem. Do they think everyone is so stupid they cannot see thru this BS ?
I honestly do feel sorry for John getting thrown to the sharks by his employer, but I know for a damn fact it could have been handled with tact and finesse.
Oh yea, before the flaming closet dwellers start in....
i.e.
" Hi, I'm John, I work for Samsung, and they have given me the job position of liason with the public.
Now before I go any further, please understand that I am under corporate restraints and NDAs (non-disclosure agreements) so that I can only give so much info and so much data. I do not know yet if they will allow me to give access to unreleased software.
So, within those restraints I will do my best to provide what I can.
Yes, I know a great many of you are upset with Samsung and that is why I am here.
Please go easy on me as I do not own or control the company"
Now, would that really have been so very tough of an introduction ?
n2ishun said:
This rep was hosed due to his own lack of knowledge, nothing else.
He started off by filling the cool-aid cups and passing them around expecting everyone to drink freely.
"Hi, I'm SamsungJohn and I have some REALLY BIG things for everyone here"
*I'll wisely not mention that I can't answer questions about hardware or software and in fact I can't really answer a single question anyone has*
It was Samsung corporate in damage control mode,NOTHING ELSE.
Funk dem. Do they think everyone is so stupid they cannot see thru this BS ?
I honestly do feel sorry for John getting thrown to the sharks by his employer, but I know for a damn fact it could have been handled with tact and finesse.
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Click to collapse
It's one thing to remain skeptical towards the guy and his motives but its completely another to flat out accuse him of lying and subterfuge merely because he may have omitted the exact words you need to hear or he wasn't nice enough, etc. It seems fairly obvious to me that if ANY large company was to hold a Q&A session on specifics of perceived missteps, they would choose a much more public forum - not a niche community of developers. On the other hand, if they wanted to incorporate new features or contract out some good developers, they are in the right place.
I don't doubt they (samsung) aren't doing this out of the goodness of their collective hearts, but if this is how changes are effected, I'll take it.
Totally agree with you Kubernetes, people think they'll get something done by impressing their rage upon the messenger. So far all of his threads are closed due to people completely ignoring the instructions and asking for release dates and trolling samsung saying they're gonna tell all their friends to never buy samsung, it's really disgusting if you ask me. I dunno about you guys but I'm the only person I know who cares if samsung releases timely updates...everyone else I know is NOT a power user and could not care less about updates. I think if outsiders say, higher ups in Samsung, were to read those threads they'd see more hostility and uncooperativeness
than a community that's ready to work with them.
Main reason I dislike all the people flaming him is because as soon as I try to ask a legit question, the thread is already locked. Trolls are blaring out people who want to handle this like adults.
Please don't try to put words in my mouth unless you intend to become my wife. I'm a dominating top so consider the job well before volunteering.
At no point did I say that John was lying, yet you say very directly that I did.
Exactly whom is the lier ?
Well honestly the way he was treated was bad, but again that is the way Samsung has treated us from the beginning, but I do have to say something about this section (vibrant) As a whole we fight with each other too much. Just take a look at the 2.2.1 rom release in the development section. It just one big ***** fest, and it is stupid. We need to focus on fixing and making our phones better not our EGO's. If we as a community can't get our collective a$$ together we will just fade away and kill our developer support. There is too much drama. One group doesn't want to work with another so on so forth. If we pooled our collective resources then we could be great.
n2ishun said:
This rep was hosed due to his own lack of knowledge, nothing else.
He started off by filling the cool-aid cups and passing them around expecting everyone to drink freely.
"Hi, I'm SamsungJohn and I have some REALLY BIG things for everyone here"
*I'll wisely not mention that I can't answer questions about hardware or software and in fact I can't really answer a single question anyone has*
It was Samsung corporate in damage control mode,NOTHING ELSE.
Funk dem. Do they think everyone is so stupid they cannot see thru this BS ?
I honestly do feel sorry for John getting thrown to the sharks by his employer, but I know for a damn fact it could have been handled with tact and finesse.
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Click to collapse
It Is damage control, but that said, they are (cause they recognize not to do so is suicide) reaching out, but the teaser is just a tactic to buy more time.
I am in the corporate world and I am Senior Exec, So this is just normal proceedings from a business to engage - delay and then reveal what they really are going to offer. That tactic is done cause it lowers expectations so if it is not enough you do not end up with a mass rebellion on your hands. Samsung John is a Big Boy, he knows the rules and expects to hear both happy and hostile comments and takes them like a grain of salt. So there is nothing for us to be ashamed of, he asked for our opinion and comments and we gave them to him.... the good, the bad and the ugly
One other note SamsungJohn released the exact same email in every Galaxy forum, so do not be wooed into thinking he was talking directly to us. It was can statement and a canned response/followup.
This might be his big announcement
I have been a user here four about 2 months and have never posted because I know how to search and I don't want to deal with the egos and the flaming, but this was posted on another forum (has nothing to do with phones) that I use.
"I talked with someone in STA (the division of the company that focuses on mobile devices), no plans at least in the immediate future are int he works for OTA updates on the Galaxy S 3G lineup. Which has me pissed. (edit: by "immediate future" I mean we're looking at like March for the mandatory OTA update, which leads me to think this hardwire update is just a beta)
Even as an employee, I can guarantee this is going to be my last Samsung phone. I STILL don't have Froyo because of all the hoops I had to go through in addition to running errands today.
Why you're forced to use a completely different connection mode, when virtually every other phone on the market can update either OTA or with a standard USB mount point, then Kies refused to connect until I turned on USB debugging, turned off USB debugging, and restarted Kies.
Now? With 88% battery life, I need to let it charge to 100% just to even start downloading the update."
Idid not include a link since it is private forum and the guy has a job he would probably like to keep. This was posted last month when the Kies update came out.
With that said it would still be nice to work with samsung, what may come from it might not be the holy grail, but at least something may come from it.
I find alarming that a lot of people in these threads think of Samsung as some sort of benefactor. An overlord that we must strive to please or else face the consequences. That is the exact opposite of what it should be.
We don't need to please them with diplomacy as if we owe them something. They simply have to treat us like clients and thats the end of that.
I can't believe some of you feel that we must appease a paid employee and thank him for doing what he is being paid to do. What is he gonna do, quit his job because the whole XDA collective is not getting on its knees for him.
An advice to Samsung, and SamsungJohn: stop talking, and start acting. A good start would have been a post saying: "Hi, I'm a representative from Samsung. Here's a source code and some other tools you guys might find useful FOR IMPROVING OUR PRODUCT. THANK YOU!"
Kubernetes said:
This is the first time ever, AFAIK, that a handset manufacturer has reached out directly to the XDA community. Maybe it's all smoke and mirrors, who knows, but we won't see anything if we just reject their attempts out of hand.
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Click to collapse
that. right. there.
Mannymal said:
I find alarming that a lot of people in these threads think of Samsung as some sort of benefactor. An overlord that we must strive to please or else face the consequences. That is the exact opposite of what it should be.
We don't need to please them with diplomacy as if we owe them something. They simply have to treat us like clients and thats the end of that.
I can't believe some of you feel that we must appease a paid employee and thank him for doing what he is being paid to do. What is he gonna do, quit his job because the whole XDA collective is not getting on its knees for him.
An advice to Samsung, and SamsungJohn: stop talking, and start acting. A good start would have been a post saying: "Hi, I'm a representative from Samsung. Here's a source code and some other tools you guys might find useful FOR IMPROVING OUR PRODUCT. THANK YOU!"
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Click to collapse
Jesus that's myopic. Samsung doesn't need anything from us, we're just a tiny minority of people who have bought their phones. They clearly think there's something to be gained from forming relationships with devs, which is why SamsungJohn is here and not Android Central or a more consumer oriented site.
You want source? Great, I'm sure that's what Krylon and Supercurio are telling them. Like adults. And I'm sure they're also explaining how timely source release can benefit Samsung as well, instead of demanding it or crying about how we're owed better support.
Because in the end, he doesn't have to be here and Samsung doesn't have to do jack about helping XDA because they'll still sell a ****-ton of phones regardless. If you can't understand that there are things we want from Samsung and it's not "appeasement" to try to get them, I have no words for you. It's not like we're holding all the cards and some horrible fate will befall Samsung if they decide this is too much of a headache.
Guys, please behave yourself and be polite toward the developers. They don't owe you anything and they are working left and right to make our phones better. Don't act like they intentionally go around and break any particular functions on your phones. If you feel like those functions are important to you, stick with stock ROM and STFU. Custom ROMs are not for you.
Comments should be used for feedback only, not to make any request or demanding any answers why x,y,z do not work on your phones. DO NOT pestering the developers over PM or emails. The people doing that kind of things are no better than scums. I have seen too many good developers left the scene and it's quite disheartening.
Just some reminder to make our community better.
P.S. No I am not the admin, just an angry xda member.
Thanks for this,
I know most people respect what devs try to do.
However it is the small minority that spoiled it the other day.
In my frustration I threw my Play against a wall and have smashed the screen.
I cannot afford to pay the £45 to get it fixed which is why I cannot continue to create ROMs
If some generous people out there would care to make some contributions to help me get it fixed I will definately continue development on MIUI the play..
Sorry to sound like a beggar but I just can't afford it
pricey2009 said:
Thanks for this,
I know most people respect what devs try to do.
However it is the small minority that spoiled it the other day.
In my frustration I threw my Play against a wall and have smashed the screen.
I cannot afford to pay the £45 to get it fixed which is why I cannot continue to create ROMs
If some generous people out there would care to make some contributions to help me get it fixed I will definately continue development on MIUI the play..
Sorry to sound like a beggar but I just can't afford it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well the small minority are just noobs they cannot do this themselves because they are clueless. If they want something they should be trying to support you not nag you. But Pricey I can't Donate I have no Paypal . And dude this should be in the "General" section of the forum!
I know this is going to come off meanly, and I don't mean it that way, but seriously? So you let people tick you off so bad, you threw your phone against the wall and broke it... No wonder you're called Pricey.
I support development, but not stupidity, sorry. You'd be better off looking for donations for Anger Management counselling.
This is going to sound mean as well, but why should people donate if you broke the phone by something physical (chucking it at wall, which is obviously going to break it). If you had maybe bricked it (or something like that) while doing something to help the community, then people would be more likely to donate...
I didn't mean to say everyone has to pay for what I did.. just asked for a bit help that was all.
I'm just saying I cannot afford to pay to fix the phone which in turn would of meant my continued development and help to everyone in the community.
It wasn't just because of my frustration of what I was sent and demanded for, I have a house full of kids and a wife that drive me up the wall as well.
Sechko has kindly donated £5 (thanks buddy) towards the screen, I can put £10 myself so I just need a further £30 and that will be it.
I do want to continue as I have worked so hard on the Sony Beta version of MIUI it would of been a waste otherwise.
There are reasons why long term developers are so highly regarded. Not only do they possess the hard skills (code analysis, debugging, maths to make sense of all that), but they have soft skills like PR management, good team work abilities and the ability to see that the continuity of a project implies a personal investment, which will have a yield in the end.
Some long, peaceful breathing seems to be in order here. And after that, it's time for all of you to evaluate exactly that. Does whatever project you were involved in contribute to your personal growth? Pricey decided that it wasn't, and so he stopped.
Our role as a community is to ensure that developers can feel at ease to do what they like to do. As such, the community failed pricey. But then again, pricey can learn lessons from this. Both for his presence here, and for his real life.
XPlay-Swype
Logseman said:
There are reasons why long term developers are so highly regarded. Not only do they possess the hard skills (code analysis, debugging, maths to make sense of all that), but they have soft skills like PR management, good team work abilities and the ability to see that the continuity of a project implies a personal investment, which will have a yield in the end.
Some long, peaceful breathing seems to be in order here. And after that, it's time for all of you to evaluate exactly that. Does whatever project you were involved in contribute to your personal growth? Pricey decided that it wasn't, and so he stopped.
Our role as a community is to ensure that developers can feel at ease to do what they like to do. As such, the community failed pricey. But then again, pricey can learn lessons from this. Both for his presence here, and for his real life.
XPlay-Swype
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The way I see it, the Xperia play is already a strong device able to play ShadowGun with 30-60 FPS
If it's already powerful what do we need to keep modding it for?
The only mods that make sense now are hardware ones. and that is the new direction I'm headed
Mainly because I want my Xperia to pickup better signal while I'm out around and exploring new citys.
Since I've got my Xperia Play it's been on stock. No unlocked bootloader and not even rooted.
I like to keep it simple
Hogwarts said:
The way I see it, the Xperia play is already a strong device able to play ShadowGun with 30-60 FPS
If it's already powerful what do we need to keep modding it for?
The only mods that make sense now are hardware ones. and that is the new direction I'm headed
Mainly because I want my Xperia to pickup better signal while I'm out around and exploring new citys.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why do we need to keep modding it? Dude, that's not really the perspective I expect from a developer. I think to summarize the general collective attitude of Android devolopers, I would have to say that the reason we keep modding any Android device is because we all want our phones to do everything. While we know it isn't possible for our phones to do everything, we want to push it as close as we can. Whether that involves tweaking the UI, the system, or hardware, we modify our phones because we can. As Android users, we don't have to settle for what our manufacturers or carriers provide us with. We can make our phones what we want them to be, and more!
That, sir, is why phones continue to be modded and supported by the development community, even far past their carrier end-of-life dates.
Calling hogwarts a developer might be a bit strong - He uninstalled bloat, installed V6, called it a ROM, promptly stopped updating, and disassembled his Play.
Re: OP, some devs actively irritate me. The aforementioned, our destructive little friend who posted earlier, and whichever member of FXP has a blood pact against the r800x... And yet, some devs here are amazing. Chevy's remarkably effective and problem-free conversions, Keiran's ridiculous productivity for all versions of our phone, despite lacking resources that other devs require prior to even trying to develop... And FXP, for all the work they've done, even if some comments do annoy me.
Tl;dr, devs are not sacred shamans and I don't mind calling them out for bull****, especially when said bull**** isn't impeding the dude ten years my junior who also has school to contend with.
Sent from my R800x using xda premium
While I do agree with you, for the most part, the fact still remains that there are some really ungrateful... people around here that do nothing but complain, nag, and demand things be given to them as soon as their post is made. While it is true that some developers aren't as awesome as others, they all do deserve to be treated with the same respect as everyone else. More than that should definitely be earned, of course.
The short of it? The Golden Rule, people. That shouldn't need to be posted, but alas, such is the world we live in.
Sent from my R800x using XDA
I'd donate just because of the wife and kids driving you up the wall. I only have 22p in PayPal though. It's yours if you want it.
Sent from my R800i using XDA
Trygon said:
Calling hogwarts a developer might be a bit strong - He uninstalled bloat, installed V6, called it a ROM, promptly stopped updating, and disassembled his Play.
Re: OP, some devs actively irritate me. The aforementioned, our destructive little friend who posted earlier, and whichever member of FXP has a blood pact against the r800x... And yet, some devs here are amazing. Chevy's remarkably effective and problem-free conversions, Keiran's ridiculous productivity for all versions of our phone, despite lacking resources that other devs require prior to even trying to develop... And FXP, for all the work they've done, even if some comments do annoy me.
Tl;dr, devs are not sacred shamans and I don't mind calling them out for bull****, especially when said bull**** isn't impeding the dude ten years my junior who also has school to contend with.
Sent from my R800x using xda premium
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Remember that, while Keiran is a free agent (and an awesome guy btw), FXP is a team with certain rules and guidelines, which give them an edge over free agents that they need to keep. FXP hasn't touched the bootloaders of the 2011 Xperia line, and their support for devices which "shouldn't" ever have been unlocked, like the R800x, is not officially endorsed. That's the price they pay for, e.g, getting phones and source code directly from Sony as they did last year.
BTW, FXP has another teen in the group, namely Blagus. He was busy already with the older Xperias... it's hard to wrap your head around the concept of a 14 yo kid that can tear apart a phone's sotware just like that
Logseman said:
Remember that, while Keiran is a free agent (and an awesome guy btw), FXP is a team with certain rules and guidelines, which give them an edge over free agents that they need to keep. FXP hasn't touched the bootloaders of the 2011 Xperia line, and their support for devices which "shouldn't" ever have been unlocked, like the R800x, is not officially endorsed. That's the price they pay for, e.g, getting phones and source code directly from Sony as they did last year.
BTW, FXP has another teen in the group, namely Blagus. He was busy already with the older Xperias... it's hard to wrap your head around the concept of a 14 yo kid that can tear apart a phone's sotware just like that
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No joke, right? I consider myself smarter then the average bear, but some people on this forum make me feel like a drooling neanderthal.
As far as FXP's rules go, this is the first mention of them I've heard, and they keep teasing that r800x support will come 'eventually'.
Trygon said:
No joke, right? I consider myself smarter then the average bear, but some people on this forum make me feel like a drooling neanderthal.
As far as FXP's rules go, this is the first mention of them I've heard, and they keep teasing that r800x support will come 'eventually'.
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http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=15253598&postcount=217
This was FXP's stance in July 2011, and I haven't read anything reversing it.
Logseman said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=15253598&postcount=217
This was FXP's stance in July 2011, and I haven't read anything reversing it.
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While their morals are in the right place, I can't say that I agree with their decision. I mean, look at all of the other manufacturers that are starting to lock down their bootloaders. Motorola is a big one, but HTC is another one that comes to mind. Sure, HTC posts unlocks, but most of the time, the community has already broken their bootloaders open by the time HTC gets around to it. When we tell Sony, "okay, we'll play by your rules," what we're telling them is that we're going to go ahead and take this stuff lying down. What happens next? We own these devices, and the argument of pretty much the whole development community is that since we own our devices, we should be able to do what we want, even if we end up bricking them. Go ahead and void my warranty, I did that to myself, anyway. That's what insurance is for.
There was a time that Sony was unlocking bootloaders on the R800x. It didn't last long, and I missed the ship on that one, but the reason they took it down wasn't because of an SE decision. Verizon, the only CDMA carrier that officially carries the Xperia Play, didn't want their users unlocking their bootloaders and rooting, which was the only way to root at the time, because they wanted their users to keep their bloatware on the devices. So it's not Sony that we're fighting on the unlocked bootloader issue. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Alejandrissimo's method, using SETool, made available by Sony? Regardless if that's the case or not, Verizon is who we're having to fight for our freedom, not Sony.
Logseman said:
Remember that, while Keiran is a free agent (and an awesome guy btw), FXP is a team with certain rules and guidelines, which give them an edge over free agents that they need to keep. FXP hasn't touched the bootloaders of the 2011 Xperia line, and their support for devices which "shouldn't" ever have been unlocked, like the R800x, is not officially endorsed. That's the price they pay for, e.g, getting phones and source code directly from Sony as they did last year.
BTW, FXP has another teen in the group, namely Blagus. He was busy already with the older Xperias... it's hard to wrap your head around the concept of a 14 yo kid that can tear apart a phone's sotware just like that
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No offense but how does age matter if the developer is talented ? And you know what, I think the type of people that tend to annoy developers on this forum are the R800x owner. If you buy a locked down device from a ****ty wireless carrier like Verizon, it's your own damn fault. The developers didn't put a gun on your heads to ask you to buy them. If you can't unlock the bootloaders or flash your favorite ROM, it would be nicer to ask the developers nicely to develop another version for your phone. If he refuses then move on, learn from your mistakes and never buy another phones/sign the contract with Verizon. You have no one to blame but your own stupidity.
If you can't flash your damn ROM, it's not the end of the world, go do something else rather than sitting here whining to us and to the developers about it. If I am one of the developers, I will probably even give you guys the middle finger every time you guys say something rude to me. The developers don't owe you guys anything period so learn to behave. After all, it's only a phone, not your baby, etc... Stop making a big deal out of nothing and ruin the community. Next time, stop being cheap and buy an unlocked phone if you want to use xda and we can talk.
RandomXIII said:
No offense but how does age matter if the developer is talented ? And you know what, I think the type of people that tend to annoy developers on this forum are the R800x owner. If you buy a locked down device from a ****ty wireless carrier like Verizon, it's your own damn fault. The developers didn't put a gun on your heads to ask you to buy them. If you can't unlock the bootloaders or flash your favorite ROM, it would be nicer to ask the developers nicely to develop another version for your phone. If he refuses then move on, learn from your mistakes and never buy another phones/sign the contract with Verizon. You have no one to blame but your own stupidity.
If you can't flash your damn ROM, it's not the end of the world, go do something else rather than sitting here whining to us and to the developers about it. If I am one of the developers, I will probably even give you guys the middle finger every time you guys say something rude to me. The developers don't owe you guys anything period so learn to behave. After all, it's only a phone, not your baby, etc... Stop making a big deal out of nothing and ruin the community. Next time, stop being cheap and buy an unlocked phone if you want to use xda and we can talk.
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Dude, you've gone off on this one. I originally agreed with you, but seriously. I'm not just saying this because I have an R800x, but there are stupid noobs with every kind of phone there is. You can't just say, "oh, I see these guys don't like being singled out, so they must be complaining." Last I checked, there are a whole lot less of us R800x users here, and even fewer that actually complain about the roms that exist. Yes, we'll ask if they're compatible with our phones, but that's simply because of the difference within the devices themselves, despite the fact that they have the same name.
As for using a phone on a particular carrier, I'm going to have to guess that you don't live in America, you don't have your own plan, or both. Here in the states, we generally have to pick what carrier actually has service in our area, very much so in the rural areas. That being the case, if I were to go with AT&T or T-Mobile, I wouldn't be able to get signal where I live. My only options, given that, would be to go ahead and use Verizon, or use the smaller providers, or use prepaid. I've been on Verizon since before they even had feature phones, and at the time, the only prepaid service available here was TracFone. I'm not saying anything bad about TracFone, they were pretty good for the first year or two that I actually owned a cell phone. I made the switch to Verizon, and despite all of the complaints I've heard and read, I've never had a bit of trouble with Big Red. As such, I've stuck with the company I've always used. Heck, even on my previous smartphones, the CDMA bit didn't cause any problem with development.
And then I got an Xperia Play. The only problem I have with this phone is the fact that the R800x has been treated (to borrow a phrase) as the "red-headed stepchild" as compared to the other models of the R800 line. May I just say now that I didn't get the Xperia Play to hack my phone. I got the phone because I'm a gamer, and the game pad gave the phone much more appeal than the other available phones. But since I like to mess with phones, as I had on my previous ones, I decided to jump right in to the scene, as I had before.
Now, I've followed all of the recommended routes with this phone. I've paid to have the bootloader unlocked, read up on the things I need to know to manipulate this phone, and have tried to help other users in figuring out their phones. I'm not going to say I've contributed anything, really, because I call it just being a helpful person. Heck, I've even clicked the "Thanks" button a few times! While I can't say that all of the R800x users have followed the same path as I have, I can say that given the seclusion that we CDMA users have faced hasn't gotten the core of us down. In fact, as an example, chevyowner was single-handedly modifying the CM9 roms to work for us CDMA users, making the data and such work just as flawlessly as it does for GSM users. When he said he got a new phone and wouldn't be able to "port" it anymore, at least three members immediately stood up to take his place. If that's not a community coming together, I don't know what is.
Oh, and as for calling out the R800x noobs, take a look in the Q&A sections, the GSM threads, and heck, take a look at the thread that started this all, the MIUI thread. I see far more GSM members complaining, moaning, and bugging the devs than I do CDMA users. So before you single out a small group that has already been secluded time and time again, take a look at the bigger picture.
One more thing. People who can only get reliable CDMA signal in their area can't simply "stop being cheap and buy an unlocked phone." Your special unlocked GSM phones won't work on our network. Now before you say I'm complaining, I'm not. It's my choice to stay on Verizon's network, and truth be told, I don't mind having to look a little harder to mod the phones that I have available to me. I just happened to choose this one. It's not the limited support for the R800x that bugs me, it's elitists like you that think others should conform to your standards.
Hogwarts said:
If it's already powerful what do we need to keep modding it for?
The only mods that make sense now are hardware ones. and that is the new direction I'm headed
Mainly because I want my Xperia to pickup better signal while I'm out around and exploring new citys.
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I'm just a user myself, but XDA is primarily a development site, not a user support site, people are here for the modding. Most people seems to forget this which is also why there are lots of trolls.
Anyway, to answer your question, I like my Android like my linux, not like iOS. Besides flashing radios can improve signal and other software factors has effects too.