Database Users

Just work together darn!!!

At this point I could care less if the mods wish to close this thread or not. This thought or statement was generated by the recent release of the 2.1 sdk (i put it in development because it deals with development-unless there is a "i'm tired of the bs section"). I do have to throw my 2 cents on here in regards to the stupidity and lack of sense demonstrated by our devs as well as our users. . Lately there has been a whole lot of bs fighting in regards to dumb ish like "credit" for this that and the 3rd, or "he did this and he did that", or "he stole this from here", and useless competition (although competition can be healthy, at this point its dumb). Let me state that all of you are full of ****. At this point I would've thought that all of you would realize that this entire forum is sorta like a family all coming together for a common goal. Yes if you want to look at it in another way, you can say we got different families spread out i.e Diamond, Android,HD2 etc (y'all get my point), yet I noticed that all that occurs is bs fighting. Like wake the hell up and work together. EVERYONE is dying to get a stable working/near perfect 2.1 rom working on their device (damn even wm dudes are porting android so that's gotta mean something). Right now I know what's up...Y'all got the "I WAS FIRST" syndrome. How bout this. All you devs that know how to make all this ish work for us users (who have no real knowledge of it) get together and work to get 2.1 working on all our devices. THEN branch off with your own special touches, so that we dont have 5million 2.1 roms with the same damn issues. Once the rom is fully stable, then add or take out what you want. Call it 2.1 Official stable, then have all the variations listed under it. We are all loyal to certain devs based on our own taste so it's obvious that we would jump on the branch off roms accordingly.Everybody is grabbing from the same SDK so f'n come together DAMN. As for the users stop comparing. If u like a rom use it and shut up. Dont diss a next mans effort ya dig?!!!!

Could'nt of said it better.I agree.

good idea, just not guna happen. ever. people will always be flawed no matter what anyone wants. just the way it is

adelco93 said:
good idea, just not guna happen. ever. people will always be flawed no matter what anyone wants. just the way it is
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I agree..but still had to air it out with my 2 cents

daeshawn said:
At this point I could care less if the mods wish to close this thread or not. This thought or statement was generated by the recent release of the 2.1 sdk (i put it in development because it deals with development-unless there is a "i'm tired of the bs section"). I do have to throw my 2 cents on here in regards to the stupidity and lack of sense demonstrated by our devs as well as our users. . Lately there has been a whole lot of bs fighting in regards to dumb ish like "credit" for this that and the 3rd, or "he did this and he did that", or "he stole this from here", and useless competition (although competition can be healthy, at this point its dumb). Let me state that all of you are full of ****. At this point I would've thought that all of you would realize that this entire forum is sorta like a family all coming together for a common goal. Yes if you want to look at it in another way, you can say we got different families spread out i.e Diamond, Android,HD2 etc (y'all get my point), yet I noticed that all that occurs is bs fighting. Like wake the hell up and work together. EVERYONE is dying to get a stable working/near perfect 2.1 rom working on their device (damn even wm dudes are porting android so that's gotta mean something). Right now I know what's up...Y'all got the "I WAS FIRST" syndrome. How bout this. All you devs that know how to make all this ish work for us users (who have no real knowledge of it) get together and work to get 2.1 working on all our devices. THEN branch off with your own special touches, so that we dont have 5million 2.1 roms with the same damn issues. Once the rom is fully stable, then add or take out what you want. Call it 2.1 Official stable, then have all the variations listed under it. We are all loyal to certain devs based on our own taste so it's obvious that we would jump on the branch off roms accordingly.Everybody is grabbing from the same SDK so f'n come together DAMN. As for the users stop comparing. If u like a rom use it and shut up. Dont diss a next mans effort ya dig?!!!!
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I concur good sir.

Damn snappin..but daeshawn bro u making hellie sense right now i feel what u saying boah TEAM WORK

Fa'Sho! Glad someone said it!

well spoken. Fight the power!

Agreed 100%

daeshawn said:
At this point I could care less if the mods wish to close this thread or not. This thought or statement was generated by the recent release of the 2.1 sdk (i put it in development because it deals with development-unless there is a "i'm tired of the bs section"). I do have to throw my 2 cents on here in regards to the stupidity and lack of sense demonstrated by our devs as well as our users. .
Lately there has been a whole lot of bs fighting in regards to dumb ish like "credit" for this that and the 3rd, or "he did this and he did that", or "he stole this from here", and useless competition (although competition can be healthy, at this point its dumb). Let me state that all of you are full of ****.
At this point I would've thought that all of you would realize that this entire forum is sorta like a family all coming together for a common goal. Yes if you want to look at it in another way, you can say we got different families spread out i.e Diamond, Android,HD2 etc (y'all get my point), yet I noticed that all that occurs is bs fighting. Like wake the hell up and work together.
EVERYONE is dying to get a stable working/near perfect 2.1 rom working on their device (damn even wm dudes are porting android so that's gotta mean something). Right now I know what's up...Y'all got the "I WAS FIRST" syndrome. How bout this. All you devs that know how to make all this ish work for us users (who have no real knowledge of it) get together and work to get 2.1 working on all our devices.
THEN branch off with your own special touches, so that we dont have 5million 2.1 roms with the same damn issues. Once the rom is fully stable, then add or take out what you want. Call it 2.1 Official stable, then have all the variations listed under it.
We are all loyal to certain devs based on our own taste so it's obvious that we would jump on the branch off roms accordingly.Everybody is grabbing from the same SDK so f'n come together DAMN. As for the users stop comparing. If u like a rom use it and shut up. Dont diss a next mans effort ya dig?!!!!
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You have been aided by paragraphs!

darn u should be the president's top advisor. really gud and bold point

pjcforpres said:
You have been aided by paragraphs!
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Thanks, that made it easier for me to read. Never could read something that wasn't in paragraphs for some reason.

pjcforpres said:
You have been aided by paragraphs!
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lol thanks...i kinda went off without proper editing lol

Agreed 500%
2.1 can be taken on if all devs work together.

BULLY IDEA, mate!!!
i really wish this would go down... hurts my heart to go back and forth, because this doesnt work here, and that doesnt work there...
just one rom, one that WORKS, all the way... and everyone can have credit... makes so much perfect damn sense...

I agree, but bragging rights make donations. The more they "claim" the more people are willing to donate for such a "great" developer. For example, I wouldnt be surprised if Cyan bought his Nexus from his donation fund.

bubonik said:
I agree, but bragging rights make donations. The more they "claim" the more people are willing to donate for such a "great" developer. For example, I wouldnt be surprised if Cyan bought his Nexus from his donation fund.
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I have donated to many of the developers, and you know what, I got some shocking replys.... and not just one line "I don't get many, thanks"... actual responses thanking me for actually donating and showing my support.
Cyan might very well, he has a huge following beyond xda, but most of the developers on this site struggle with donations. There is but a handful in all the forums on here that actually get a decent # of donations.

i agree with everything the OP stated....
i remember when Manila2D hit the streets for the first time and all the talented developers banded together endlessly day and night to make it available to all devices after making sure it works fully
mission: common goal, we all want the same thing, then why not work together to accomplish it?? then do whatever you want with it

Not gonna happen.

Your argument about making a working rom is flawed.
Here is why:
The source code is not available.
Drivers are incompatible, thus having the same things broken. If the devs had to all colab with eachother that would cause frustration between them because of the different tweaks to get the same thing accomplished.
IF the full source was available and it was easy as building and working out the bugs from there, that would be a different story.
35% agree.
PS:
Another thing, there is only 1 2.1 rom that I would care about and I really haven't seen any others posted to be honest. There may be other 2.x roms like 2.0.1 from the droid/milestone, and espresso/hero but those are different with different challenges, but like you said have the same general problems (GPU acceleration and camera) which won't be fixed by any magical dev-ing. NCommander might be able to do a good job with reverse engineering the camera driver, but I would bet on flaws especially when we know the driver exists and will be released so there is no use with people *****ing (working yet?, does the camera work now that the sdk is out? etc).

ok...look...lets calm down

First I'm not a mediator mod or any of that, but people we are acting like children.
1. Why are u here?
The devs on this forum are taking personal time! We as community members are not ENTITLED to ROMS. They do this for the love of the platform, so respect that.
2. This is not the Sprint forum.
Again, this forum does not imply or state that EVERYTHING is going to work with whatever ROM u choose. So really, why ***** or hate? Really?
3. What can u add?
Nobody expects anyone to be the cdma hero "hero". Everyone should know they lane and stay in it. Report bugs or dev, its that simple
I don't have the highest post count and I may be out of line but I have been studying/learning here since it was questionable if there would be a sprint hero forum. Let's not **** it up by driving away the same folks that got us here. I know that from past comments this will probably get locked, but if we don't as a whole respect more what's going on we have a chance of loosing it.
Respect to all the devs on here and the work they do, for US!

+1,000,000 Agreed,it's sad when people can't even thank someone without it turning into as bunch of un-needed bull$#17.Just be positive people,some good things are happening,don't let these people ruin things.

I don't post much here anymore, because of some personal reasons with regards to this forum. I still lurk a lot, however, and I just don't see where all the straight-up hate and animosity these posts such as yours are mentioning. I tend to avoid the 80-page threads because they are mostly filled with junk, is it in there?
Perhaps I should check them out.
The hate and animosity and watering down of this subforum with too many useless posts is why I haven't released anything since December. I'm working on a new rom for myself, and I'm thinking less and less like I might want to actually release it here. Last thing I feel like dealing with are a bunch of whiny people who aren't happy with me or my work unless it makes their phone do what THEY want. Where's the reward for devs? Don't anyone even bother mentioning donations.

Support that!

dude props for this! good going. And I agree with you 1000%

its no crime to show thanks and respect to some one for their hard work. if deving was easy we would all be doing it.

obelisk79 said:
I don't post much here anymore, because of some personal reasons with regards to this forum. I still lurk a lot, however, and I just don't see where all the straight-up hate and animosity these posts such as yours are mentioning. I tend to avoid the 80-page threads because they are mostly filled with junk, is it in there?
Perhaps I should check them out.
The hate and animosity and watering down of this subforum with too many useless posts is why I haven't released anything since December. I'm working on a new rom for myself, and I'm thinking less and less like I might want to actually release it here. Last thing I feel like dealing with are a bunch of whiny people who aren't happy with me or my work unless it makes their phone do what THEY want. Where's the reward for devs? Don't anyone even bother mentioning donations.
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This is exactly why we should respect the devs... pretty soon all of them will be gone.

You beat me to it ... but I don't really care.
I think we just got too amped up with all the 2.1 excitement and started trying to outdo oneanother instead of working together. Once the official 2.1 comes out, I think we will see a lot more collaboration to make it as good as possible. In the mean time, always five credit where it is due, and don't worry about who did what first, because it only benefits everybody. That's why our great devs are here: to help create a better device, not to profit or hoard secrets. This is the first real open source project I have been a part of, and I get excited just thinking about what the future has in store for us. Let's make it a great one!

Can we just please stop with these types of threads.

The way I look at it is like a car.
You buy the car, and you COULD just leave it at that. Some people like to mod their car and optimize it for maximum performance. Many people do not know how to do this, so they need to take it some someone who does know how, and the mechanic for damn sure isnt going to do that *** for free. I think of our devs a mechanics, optimizing my phone for me because I have no idea how to develop to my phone. The difference here is that they are doing this **** for free. So what if they ask for a donation, bums on the street ask for "donations" for doing ***. We were going to get 2.1 for free one way or another at some point since we already had the car (Hero for you thick headed people), whether it be a whole 2 days after flipz released it to contributors, or when sprint/htc officially releases it at the rumored end of this month.
And be happy this isnt a car, because if it was not only would you HAVE to pay for the official update, but you would have to pay for the installation and optimization.
Taking a *** chill pill all those people who are too stingy to even donate 1 buck.

Don't make me say the f word and post an off color picture so this thread gets shut down
just playing mods. don't hurt me.

foxracr17 said:
the way i look at it is like a car.
You buy the car, and you could just leave it at that. Some people like to mod their car and optimize it for maximum performance. Many people do not know how to do this, so they need to take it some someone who does know how, and the mechanic for damn sure isnt going to do that **** for free. I think of our devs a mechanics, optimizing my phone for me because i have no idea how to develop to my phone. The difference here is that they are doing this **** for free. So what if they ask for a donation, bums on the street ask for "donations" for doing ****. We were going to get 2.1 for free one way or another at some point since we already had the car (hero for you thick headed people), whether it be a whole 2 days after flipz released it to contributors, or when sprint/htc officially releases it at the rumored end of this month.
And be happy this isnt a car, because if it was not only would you have to pay for the official update, but you would have to pay for the installation and optimization.
Taking a ****ing chill pill all those people who are too stingy to even donate 1 buck.
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this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! .

Tipharet said:
Can we just please stop with these types of threads.
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No kidding... I am pretty sick of hearing people explain to me why I should be grateful to the rom developers. Like saying "The devs on this forum are taking personal time!" is some enlightening way to look at it. Everyone knows that already. And it gets really old seeing people make threads like this in an effort to get brownie points around here. There are so many threads EXACTLY like this. You are pushing posts that actually have a use out of view for a lot of people.
Oh wait, I have a difference of opinion. Lets start another thread and label it disrespect to the development gods...

Thank you. And I mean that. Because of XDA and it's amazing devs, I have gotten more out of this phone than I ever imagined. I have never had a phone that could do so much and people here were always willing to help me with a problem. And that is wonderful. I am glad that I joined this forum. In fact, I look forward to checking it every day. lol I don't know a lot about Linux, Java, or coding, but I do however know a lot about photography. I am a professional. So, if anyone needs help that way, I am completely for helping...I mean, all of you have helped me...I'd like to return the favor.
-Ken

flexgrip said:
No kidding... I am pretty sick of hearing people explain to me why I should be grateful to the rom developers. Like saying "The devs on this forum are taking personal time!" is some enlightening way to look at it. Everyone knows that already. And it gets really old seeing people make threads like this in an effort to get brownie points around here. There are so many threads EXACTLY like this. You are pushing posts that actually have a use out of view for a lot of people.
Oh wait, I have a difference of opinion. Lets start another thread and label it disrespect to the development gods...
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Actually that wasn't my point at all. My point is threads like this do nothing but divert attention to them, it perpetuates the negativity. New users come in these threads and see this and "ask what I missed" then it gets started over and over again.
As soon as these threads die (yes I realize I bump when I reply) the drama will also follow. Donate, dont donate, dev, dont dev ( not really) but just treat each other like some one you would walk by on the street or have a conversation with while standing in a line.

Asking for your cake and eating it 2.
I dont post alot here as well due to personal issues here on the form (so many smarty pants people on here)
But if i see a rom that i like (or app) i give the dev his props and thank him for putting in hard work when he or she could of been doing something else not trying please us and make our phones better then the stock ones.
Not saying the next person have to do the same. But if i wasted 5hrs of my time. and your running around showing off with my work i would like some props.
This dont even have nothng to do with roms or dev so im sure its going to get closed down soon. You people are just wasting your time making these threads people going to do what they going to do.

It's true that these type of threads may seem senseless and get hijacked to negativity... but in the past, my experience is that when moderators and dev's get fed up enough the forum/site would become closed and open to invitation only type membership, i.e., PRIVATE ACCESS!
That scenario is both good and bad... "Good" if you're in the loop, but potentially "Bad" because you just might end up on the outside looking in with your nose pressed against the window! So PROPS it is...
I have come to XDA for a long time, joined only so I could post, and only recently began to do so. But, that said, it has been indispensable for the provision of knowledge and fixes for handsets that the manufacturers and or carriers are unable to do themselves... so again - PROPS it is... no reason to drag it down.
+++++1,000 thanks to the awesome work being done!
There are those who truly can never be pleased, yet, I think that ration is extremely small. So again, for something I would gladly pay for, but am not required to do, I offer the easiest thing, a gesture of THANKS!

[Q] What happened to Epic Experience?

Looking for 1.2.0... I see activity in the thread at 2:40am but the sticky post goes to a shut down notice... anybody?

Mods locked it because he released 1.2.0 early to donators
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

Maybe I should have donated... are we all mad about this or is this something that will go away soon?

Mods got mad that he was releasing to donators and they think he was asking for money for the ROM.
Flipz/Fresh does this for the Hero and the Evo which makes no sense..
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

So sad
threedfreek said:
Maybe I should have donated... are we all mad about this or is this something that will go away soon?
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Well, this is sad for a couple reasons.
1) This is an established developer, who never required anything for use of his roms, and had over 10 revisions located here. He *rewarded* his donators for supporting him. This is not to be confused with a *few* other rom chefs with no proven track record, not released anything to the board and asking for money for a rom. This dev is in a diffrent league and should be treated diffrently IMO.
2) He had alot of users using his roms, he had alot of support and Q&A that is all gone now, the thread is gone but people still use his roms and may want support or something to continue. I dont think making the thread *dissapear* is the correct action. It also insinuates Guilty before proven innocent as the dev is punished before things are worked out.
My 2 cents

I think the mods should explain themselves and see if the community sees any problems with schiz... I for one do not begrudge the guy for early release to donators... fact is this is the american way which I am proud to be a part of.

This is especially lame, because now I have no idea where the hell to get the thing. What if I WANT to donate? He's not charging for the ROM. He's just releasing early to donations.

brian_hoffman said:
Well, this is sad for a couple reasons.
1) This is an established developer, who never required anything for use of his roms, and had over 10 revisions located here. He *rewarded* his donators for supporting him. This is not to be confused with a *few* other rom chefs with no proven track record, not released anything to the board and asking for money for a rom. This dev is in a diffrent league and should be treated diffrently IMO.
2) He had alot of users using his roms, he had alot of support and Q&A that is all gone now, the thread is gone but people still use his roms and may want support or something to continue. I dont think making the thread *dissapear* is the correct action. It also insinuates Guilty before proven innocent as the dev is punished before things are worked out.
My 2 cents
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I agree. I have been using Schizo's rom (1.1.6 w/Mixup kernel) for a couple weeks now and was greatly looking forward to version 1.2. He has done the best on incorporating compatibility with different kernels as well as prompt support.
I think the community is owed an explanation and a way to contact Schizo to see his side of the story.

i agree... he has supported the rom, stayed up late to get out the newest version early and always said he was releasing it regually as well.....

His ROMs actually work and you all freaking delete his thread? What the heck is wrong with you all. Stomping on a DEV, this is like the crap Apple does. Totally Lame. You all need to to reinstate this guy. Folks in this community "donate" money to DEVs and to keeping this site up and running. If word gets out that MODs are deleting threads for pointless reasons then people are going to pull their money out of this site and will start to hurt then help XDA.
Put him back-online and get the MOD to explain his actions!

I agree.
The Epic needs Devs and he seemed like a good one.
I understand the mods hesitance for his methods, but they should lay down GROUND RULES if they think he did something wrong.
I'm fine with it being released early. Call it "beta testing" for those who donated. In fact, with many new ROMs I usually wait a few days in case there are bugs.
The mods should allow the donate early-beta test model, stating it must be released publicly within X days.

Those of us who had donated have received an email from schiz. He says hes trying to work it out with the mods. Hopefully theyll get it worked out, if not, he'll pop up on his own site.
I ran fresh for months on my hero, but i think his donators-get-it-first was based off his website, not xda. I guess because schiz stated that donators would get it early, he got in trouble. If the mods really want to stop this kind of thing, then ban any developer who links to a donation account. But they wont do that, and shouldnt, because devs do deserve donations. But i guess you better not point to the donate link, otherwised youre banned.
Sent from my Epic using XDA app.

I have the latest update and am unsure on installing it. I don't want to install something that I won't have any support for, this is ridiculous. He puts his time, energy and money into making a rom and releases it to some people who have given him donations because they liked his rom so much, nothing wrong with it in my opinion.

Schizo and I are going to be working on a site tonight, since he has the domain and the web space now, we are going to work something up.
Stay tuned. Epic Experience will be right back .

jirafabo said:
I guess because schiz stated that donators would get it early, he got in trouble.
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Like I said, he should offer exclusive "beta test" to people via their paypal e-mail addresses.
Then he can keep it off the forums, but still give reason to donate.
I've been on all sides of the equation (developer, donator, and leecher). I think it's fair. Just as long as he releases it, in full, to the leechers within X time. He seems like a quality developer.

Wtf schizo was an awesome dev. He was really dedicated. So what if he released them early to donators. Like someone else saidd, that's the american way. I expect to wait a little longer for something that's free. I understand completely.
I don't get why he was given the banhammer. Unless he said "you can't get 1.2 unless you donate." Then I don't see how it violates tos
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

Bring him back, now please
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

phantomevo77 said:
Schizo and I are going to be working on a site tonight, since we has the domain and the web space now, we are going to work something up.
Stay tuned. Epic Experience will be right back .
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Whew, the start of this thread almost ruined my Friday. You guys rock!

viper134 said:
I have the latest update and am unsure on installing it. I don't want to install something that I won't have any support for, this is ridiculous. He puts his time, energy and money into making a rom and releases it to some people who have given him donations because they liked his rom so much, nothing wrong with it in my opinion.
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If you donated, you will continue to get support, don't worry, he isn't giving up just like that.
Epic Experience will continue to get support, so don't worry about that.

guess I don't like the phrase leecher... but I guess if I don't pay I get called names... while this thing is in hot dev I wait to find what I want to keep and what I will call quits on... when I find the "end" I donate... until then I would rather be called a tester... when things go wrong I explain what's going on that might be fixed... in that case I'm a tester... not a leecher... just sayin'
bring back the "greatest epic experience"

Mandatory "donations" for ROM access?

This is becoming more and more common. Does it bother anybody else? I mean i dont lose sleep over it, but it kind of ruins the "community" feel and turns things into more of a business.
Donations are slowly turning into payments. This is precisely why i PERSONALLY never believed in the word donation in the development world, but lets not get into that debate.
I mean, if a dev/dev team is really good, im sure they get more than enough donations to fund their work, seeing as though im always seeing people on the forums talk about how theyll donate or how much they donated. I feel like whats happening is a dev/dev team starts out strong, and at first is just soaking up the notoriety amongst users, and understandably so. But as time goes, and their knowledge and popularity grows, they realize "hey, we could probably make some serious money off this" but then they realize that that just goes against the whole "doing it in your free time" or "doing what we love doing" concepts, so they insist on continuing to label it a "donation".
Let me be clear, I have absolutely no problem with a dev/dev team expecting money in order to grant access to something that is popular. Thats what a lot of governments are founded on, and these guys definitely deserve a little spending money for all of the smiles they put on peoples faces. I just dont like the abuse of the word "donation" that takes place. Why dont you just say "you have to pay for it"? Cause thats pretty much what is going down......
This isnt directed at anyone in particular, im simply curious to see how other people feel about it.

I feel the same way. Label it as payment/charge/etc and it will be good. Just dont use the word donation when only a donation gets the user access to an area of forums, kernels, roms, other, software. Its just not correct to do
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

It's incredibly silly. In many cases these people are charging for tweaking something that they didn't create and don't even have the rights to redistribute.
When you get right down to it, every ROM here that's built off of one of the leaked Froyo builds is in murky territory. Although parts of those leaks are GPL'd, there are tons of proprietary Samsung bits in there, and if Samsung felt like it they could slap everybody with a C&D on redistributing that stuff.
On the one hand, the people who distribute leaks (and tweaked ROMs based off of those leaks) for free are taking risks by doing so, and they're doing it to help the community. But on the other, you have people who take those leaks, apply their own tweaks to them, and then charge for the completed product. Those guys are basically profiting from the work that others took a risk in releasing to the public, which is ridiculous.
The best way to deal with it is to not simply not "donate" to people who pull such shenanigans.

JeremyNT said:
It's incredibly silly. In many cases these people are charging for tweaking something that they didn't create and don't even have the rights to redistribute.
When you get right down to it, every ROM here that's built off of one of the leaked Froyo builds is in murky territory. Although parts of those leaks are GPL'd, there are tons of proprietary Samsung bits in there, and if Samsung felt like it they could slap everybody with a C&D on redistributing that stuff.
On the one hand, the people who distribute leaks (and tweaked ROMs based off of those leaks) for free are taking risks by doing so, and they're doing it to help the community. But on the other, you have people who take those leaks, apply their own tweaks to them, and then charge for the completed product. Those guys are basically profiting from the work that others took a risk in releasing to the public, which is ridiculous.
The best way to deal with it is to not simply not "donate" to people who pull such shenanigans.
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Its very important that we dont mention names, to avoid flaming.....but i know exactly who you are talking about in particular....

The trend started with kingklick and everyone was all up in arms about it
But eventually the rest of the developers followed and now its OK for them and they accept it LOL hypocrites
This is another reason making my decision on NS much easier
Some real development will be underway i miss my N1 XDA support back in the day
Not that i dont appreciate what others have done here just most of it wasn't my cup of tea with exception of Eugene's work
But he left for a reasonable reason too much BS but his work is still freely available

It would be nice to hear a devs take on this but on the other hand this could just start a huge ordeal I understand what you guys are saying but I don't think this thread is going to help any development at all in fact it may even be counter productive the dev group is growing for the vibrant but I wouldn't say there are enough devs to start pissing people off and making them lose interest in xda all together if its not one thing its another nothing is free in this world eventually if you want something ahead of everyone else you gotta pony up the cash I went to a street fair once at the gate was a booth labeled donations they didn't deny me access when I refused to pay but I didn't enjoy the full access everyone else did when they received theyre wrist bands that got them free drinks your not paying to get in your paying for the cause and the work and the time it takes to create something that millions can enjoy ......i wouldn't get to butt hurt about it its the way of the world be it in day to day life forums or whatever else you think it applies to just my opinion we're all entitled to them I suppose
V5 custom vibrant

I take back allot of what i said apparently some are still releasing roms here

willsnews said:
It would be nice to hear a devs take on this but on the other hand this could just start a huge ordeal I understand what you guys are saying but I don't think this thread is going to help any development at all in fact it may even be counter productive the dev group is growing for the vibrant but I wouldn't say there are enough devs to start pissing people off and making them lose interest in xda all together if its not one thing its another nothing is free in this world
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In terms of my opinion, and what im trying to say, the paragraph in bold in the OP highlights my exact problem. I understand the concept and the need for devs to ask for money in whatever form, and i have absolutely no issue with that. But thats what they are, PAYMENTS. The only thing im questioning is why they insist on calling them donations. They are not donations when they are in the format of a transaction.
do·na·tion noun \dō-ˈnā-shən\
Definition of DONATION
: the act or an instance of donating: as a : the making of a gift especially to a charity or public institution b : a free contribution : gift
trans·ac·tion noun \tran-ˈzak-shən, tran(t)-ˈsak-\
Definition of TRANSACTION
1a : something transacted; especially : an exchange or transfer of goods, services, or funds <electronic transactions>
Theres just something about it that seems a bit unethical to me, almost like a bit of a marketing scam. "Donate" has a much friendlier, less threatening tone to it than "payment". Maybe theres a mindset in place that people will be more inclined to "donate" rather than "pay". Im just trying to figure out why they cant just call it like it is.
Regardless of how you may feel about it, theres no question that sometimes it feels like our "community" is faltering in favor of making money.
------------
In terms of the devs leaving XDA because of threads like this? i mean come on, we are talking about word definitions here...not insulting peoples families.....

Donation: ASK for CONTRIBUTIONS DURING development
Payment: REQUIRE COMPENSATION for COMPLETED product

I haven't ever seen a developer require payment for a complete product here on XDA. Some give early access to buggy ROMs and kernels, but that's it.

I don't. see anyone asking for a payment to get a full version of a rom. some gets it early when you donated but still the ones who didn't still gets the rom later. If that's how they want it to be then let it be.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

Used to have "buy me a beer" links up at the most a couple of years ago. Seems there was more collaboration among devs like LucidRem who was super nice on G1 apps to SD. Was constantly being tweaked by seperate devs to get a better partition solution for example.
Don't blame me, blame my keyboard's autocorrection algorithm.

Any developer that does that is very clearly breaking the law. They could be very easily sued by anyone that cared.

Haha, even if that's true, which I don't think it is.....i think that would be taking things just a tad too far
Sent from my pocket rocket!

I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM WITH IT!!
I have been on with Android since Day 1. XDA and the developers who come here are the only reason I am so passionate about my phone and android. Without these 2 things a large part of my "hobby" would be severely hampered.
Developers do a tremendous amount for us. Can you imagine being on JI6 right now? I feel that they get barely anything in donations.... if this is a method for them to beta with a small group and reward those who support them/him, than I think they should take advanatage of that... and if it leads to developers earning a bit more than they would normally, awesome for them.
Cause you know what....
When developers are happy.... WE are all happy!!!
I mean come on, they release them to the public anyway.... is it okay for you to whine about not getting something sooner, that you had no part in creating/making.... what gives YOU the right???
PS, both R14 and Nero_Beta are very tasty... can't wait to get my hands on Axura 2.2 soon also.

maybe we should point out who the REAL developers are, and who are the wannabe's like people that take others work and just theme it.
Maybe just maybe then, these people that are rushing to hand over fists of money would donate to the people that actually put things out, and not the winzip blender wannabe's.
I "had" respect for some of these people until I first hand decompiled their rom to find out it wasn't there's at all. Adding a theme and transitions to Windows, does not make it mine.. how hard can that be to understand?

s15274n said:
I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM WITH IT!!I mean come on, they release them to the public anyway.... is it okay for you to whine about not getting something sooner, that you had no part in creating/making.... what gives YOU the right???.
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well i really hope youre not referring to me......i have a good paying a job and if i really wanted to pay for a ROM i would, but i dont......check my signature, i AM still runnning JI6, i dont use Macnut or Obsidian (neither ever required donations). I am speaking purely based on observation, not personal experience.
I mean if i was stuck stuck with JI6 forever, i wouldnt be thatdisappointed, because i have my phone setup exactly how i want it. Im not a fan of leaked ROMs, never have been. So i wont be waiting up all night waiting for Nero to go public either.
Please dont confuse me for one of those crybabies who just HAS to get their greedy fingers on the newest ROM right away just to be with the "in-crowd"...thats not what im about
s15274n said:
if this is a method for them to beta with a small group and reward those who support them/him, than I think they should take advanatage of that... and if it leads to developers earning a bit more than they would normally, awesome for them
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please dont misunderstand me, you have to read carefully what im trying to say....i have absolutely NO ISSUE with devs receiving money....none. they often deserve it. i just dont like the way the concept of "donating" is presented sometimes. The way you outlined it ^^ is a great way of wording the way it SHOULD be appraoched....unfortunately it isnt always approached that way, and THOSE are the instances im referring to in my OP

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_General_Public_License
This issue is that a custom ROM is built upon the work of thousands of other people that all licensed their work under the GPL because they wanted to it to be used that way. When someone takes their work and sells it, they are expressly misusing the work of others.
I think its fantastic that people are willing to put their time into developing ROMs, but at the same time it's very disrespectful and illegal to not follow the wishes of the people whose work the ROMs are built on. Ultimately, ROMs are very, very minor tweaks to what has been the result of almost twenty years and millions of man hours of work. If you want to be a part of that, that's great, but you have to play by the rules. After all, those rules are what made ROM development possible.

I can understand why they do it. Most people don't know how many hours go into just developing a theme let a long a full rom. So I understand them wanting to make some money for their time, but I also do agree with people who think they should not have a donation requirement to download, they should label it as a pay to download / theme or rom.
Here is an example of why I think devs do a required donation:
Here is the Nexus Theme I made (Did not ask for donations): http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=860198
To date this has had: 318 downloads
Amount of donations recieved: $0
Time Spent making it: 10+ Hrs
Here is the Frobuntu theme I made (Asked for Donations): http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=846285
To date this has had: 333 Downloads
Amount of donations recieved: $20
Time Spent Making it: 20+ hrs
So I can see why they do this. It makes a difference when you ask for the donations, but... again there should not be a required donation. That is called "selling" your rom/theme. They could do it the way I did the Frobuntu rom where I "Highly Suggested" a donation amount in big letters in the header of the post, but still gave it away to those who cannot pay.
Just my two cents. I would never flame or look down upon a dev for choosing to require a donation, that is their decision. I just choose not to do that myself.

No offense but most custom roms have a couple issues, needing to be fixed in the next release, meaning in a few days your gonna have to flash again, then the cycle continues, another bug so needing a new release... But the new release isn't faster, better or any cooler than the release before...lol
I'm on stock jk6 with my tweaks, my mods, and my setup, I was on customs for a bit, but all this donation crap has made me not wanting to try custom roms from anyone here, especially with all the drama :d
Needless to say I've never donated anything other than to xda itself..... I would never give my money to people just doing this for fun just like I do.... Donate to me then lol...
Anyways, id advise against donating to get a early release that ain't any better than the one before....lol
All I can say is suckeeeeers... Sorry but true, you have been hustled...
P.s. Anyone with a donate to me sign in their sig or whatever are completely retarded imo..... Lol

Devs that quit: who's to blame?

The thought popped up in my head this morning. I remembered Eugene, the developer of the Macnut ROM, who no longer supported XDA. Then another dev, jellette, that quit for reasons I can't quite understand. Who's to blame for these developers quitting the scene, or only providing ROMs on other sites?
I'm a 16 year old high school student in San Francisco. I've been lurking the forums ever since I got my Vibrant and my friend directed me here. I'm not at all new to hacks like these, I've been participating in communities and actions like these since I was 12. I never found a reason to become closely connected within this community, though. It's not a small group, it's a much larger one, and I don't have any place to fit in. This is one of my first posts, and it's one that I feel I need to share with the community: my thoughts and beliefs on the whole situation about devs that no longer support XDA or flat out quit.
Let's cover some ground first:
These devs are not paid. They make these ROMs, custom kernels, and other mods in their spare time. The only money they make off these ROMs comes from donations, and some devs don't ask for donations anyway.
The users are not paying for this work. The users don't need to give feedback, however they are permitted and allowed to comment, criticize, or help the developers in any way.
The trade made here is obviously unfair: give nothing, get something. In many cases, get a great piece of work for your phone that will make it blazing fast and give it features and functionality unheard of to other users of the same phone. The devs are ok with this though, as they freely release their work without a price tag.
However, there are some things devs are not ok with. I can't speak for each and every single developer, but having once done development in my own time as well, I can say the one thing that really aggravates all developers, and all people even, is when your work goes unnoticed, or worse yet, gets disrespected. When some bombarding, ignorant user comes along and rips apart your hard work, what are you to do? "This ROM is utterly horrible, you should've put more work into it before releasing this paperweight." Maybe a bit over the top, but it gets the point across, and it's from this that a developer will most likely quit XDA as he sees fit.
So what can we say about the users, the freeloaders? Some decency is expected of all of us, basically. That's the lesson every user should know: respect those that give you what you get. They're not robots that work endlessly with nothing better to do. These are people, hard working men and women who spend hours on end making software for you. Give them your respect. Constructive criticism is nice, but never go so far as to demote them as a person. If you want their respect, you must give them respect. Make them feel welcome and they will continue to work for the entire community. It's simple, human nature.
As for developers, are they in the right place to quit under these grounds? There is no set ground for quitting. Each person sees fit at what time he or she should quit working, in any case: as a dev, as an employee, as anyone. People need to know their limits, and they do know their limits. As a free working developer, they have a lot more liberty in deciding when they want to stop working for the community. Even someone who didn't feel accused or demoted could leave for no reason and it wouldn't affect them as much as if they had left their full-time paying job. This is not a source of revenue, it's not a source of anything, in fact.
One thing devs should know, and this is coming straight from me, is that as someone who releases work on the forums, your name will be known, and it's wise that you build a public image for yourself. Quitting without reason, without a post to describe your feelings, to express concerns or thoughts on the community or whatever else you'd like to mention, does not help build a good public image. You are at liberty to do as you please, that's your free choice, but people will judge you based on your actions. Throwing yourself into a position as such, as a chef, comes with more than just giving out work. It comes with the comments users will give you. It's good to be able to politically conduct yourself, to create a good public image, which will ultimately help you avoid the negative comments the public makes.
In conclusion:
Users: Be respectful, have some common decency. This is for all of us, not just those who don't get it. It's a rule we should all know. Developers are humans, just like us. Respect them as such.
Developers/chefs: You are free to do what you like. Quit as you please, continue as you please, no one will stop you. It is, however, important to make a good public image. Not necessary, but important. Conduct yourself in a political manner, because us users see you as a strong force, not just as a person. Be ready to make a good public image.
I want to know your thoughts on this. I feel it's important that this ground is covered, and that we come to a general consensus on this. The more you know, the better off you are. The more we all know, the better off we will all be.

if only there were more users like you.
I'm tired of these little immature kids making these hardworking devs leave the forum.

xriderx66 said:
if only there were more users like you.
I'm tired of these little immature kids making these hardworking devs leave the forum.
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I second that...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

I also think that those developing roms need to understand that a lot of members are teenagers that do not what respect is. I myself am 30yrs old and I know that there are more members that are much younger and very childish. The devs need to not take it out on the entire forum. There are more members that appreciate their work than there are that do not.

I agree with you 100% in partucular regarding the users.
I came to this forum looking for support, trying to get the GPS working on my Vibrant.
Before I posted or did anything I read many threads and researched what it meant to use Odin and to root the phone and flash a rom and to recover from a problem before I even started anything. When I did I was fully aware that I and I alone, was responsible for anything that happened to my phone. I am continually amazed at how some people jump in, without a clue as to what they are doing, then seem to try to blame the developers for their problems. Then you have the group who complain about colors or a boot animation or a "missing" app on a rom they got for free. Simply amazing the entitlement people have over something that someone puts out there for them to try to improve their phone for free.
I can understand how the devs could get fed up with these sorts of actions. It can take a pretty thick skin to deal with all the stuff I see going on here.

It is like a preschool in here...just get used to it.
Life will go on, and someone will always be making roms--herds are pathetic, individuals are lost inside said herds. Keep your ears open and your mouth shut.
My $0.02

No one but the Dev can pull their ROMs and leave. We all take criticism in life. Some run, some brush it off.

ScooterG said:
No one but the Dev can pull their ROMs and leave. We all take criticism in life. Some run, some brush it off.
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I agree to a point, just if anyone runs off Master I'm forming a mob with pitchforks and torches...

I have plenty of respect for the few guys who make a few useful programs, and I don't think I've ever bashed a dev's work openly. But:
ScooterG said:
No one but the Dev can pull their ROMs and leave. We all take criticism in life. Some run, some brush it off.
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/Twerd.
Gotta give respect to receive, and some devs just think they are God's gift to Captain Taco. It's the Internet - no one gets respect on the 'tubes. Who gives a ****. The growing up really neds to happen on the part of most of these "I'm pouty b/c someone said something crass about some weekend work I did" "developers."
Drewstein said:
I agree to a point, just if anyone runs off Master I'm forming a mob with pitchforks and torches...
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McMaster should shrink his huge sig. It's a symptom of my point: get over your self importance. There are (good) forums on the 'Net that enforce a 5-line or 100px tall rule (vs. his 300px +).
Again, not bashing the work, just the attitude, as presented.
-bZj

Agree ...........great post clear concise and to the point. Funny, that a 16 year old can articulate the basics of good behavior that most in here do not practice. I do not blame a lot of the devs leaving, people rag on their work give nothing but complaints..... as if they have the skill (yeah right).People will eagerly wait 10 min in a Starbucks line, pay 5.00 for a coffee and never donate to the dev, XDA or anything........then complain when the custom rom they got for free doesn't work the WAY they like or want......... talk about selfish irony...........
Great post !! kevipapo1 (from a guy old enough to be your grandpa )

i agree with it. people need to remember that without dev. we would all be running stock

If master leaves I'll suicide.
I hope ur reading this, master

Unfortunately this is the interwebz and this is has its been in any android forum I've ventured through. As you are young, but yet seem to be fairly wise, I say to you "welcome to the world my friend!"

Very good post.
Most criticism is from lack of knowledge/education. People don't understand how difficult it is to develop a ROM. So they criticise what they don't understand because it inconveniences them.
However, I will disagree somewhat with developer criticism. Although, I don't agree with the way Master handled the situation, I can relate.
I believe it is very important for us to realize that ROM developers are not public figures. They have the freedom to stop and start as they please. Their passion is development, after all, not public relations.
Kudos OP. Excellent post!
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

I just want to say thanks to all Developers here at XDA. Without you and your ROMS or tweaks i wouldn't have the great phone i have today that i spent my hard earned money on, and to the immature people if something doesn't work right on a ROM insted of being an ASS!!! and saying how crappy it is say whats wrong and they will fix it they have for me.
Again thanks to all who have helped you don't even know me but you all are ready to help at anytime day or night.
GARY

I personally am 15 and have been in xda since 13
I appreciate the devs for all their work if it wasn't for them i would have killed myself with many frustrations of a stock vibrant
I hate that some are immature and that some get really irritating i understand that some are new but some just get on nerves.
I wish eugene came back because he was.one of the first devs here
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

This is a great post & I echo the op's sentiments. This forum and the devs that contribute to it are a phenomenal resource to all of us and deserve to be treated with respect as we all do. The real shame is that a 16 yr old realizes this more than most of us adults (some of which are in name only). I've been in these forums for only a short time and the amount of immaturity, cynacism and deconstructive criticism I have seen is truly apalling and frankly I'm suprised more haven't bailed. I guess the Golden Rule isn't important when you've got the anonymity of the internet.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App

Lethal_NFS said:
I also think that those developing roms need to understand that a lot of members are teenagers that do not what respect is. I myself am 30yrs old and I know that there are more members that are much younger and very childish. The devs need to not take it out on the entire forum. There are more members that appreciate their work than there are that do not.
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Just because someone is childish does NOT mean that they are a child.
I've seen many adults that throw a tantrum worse than a 5 year old and many 5 year olds who act like they're going on 30.
Likely their age has nothing to do with it & its just a reflection of their random genetics and/or crappy parenting.
down8 said:
McMaster should shrink his huge sig. It's a symptom of my point: get over your self importance. There are (good) forums on the 'Net that enforce a 5-line or 100px tall rule (vs. his 300px +).
Again, not bashing the work, just the attitude, as presented.
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If its an issue, then xda should make a max image/sig size (like you mentioned other sites do). That simple.
Most of his signature tells you to search & read the XDA rules before posting, not really bad advice & since he has to answer questions from many people who don't do either, I can't really blame him.
It would be a LOT more aesthetically pleasing if it were text only, but since XDA allows it, I don't really have a problem with it.
Most of the devs have developed a bit of an attitude (I've seen it from Eugene, SomBionix, Master, and a few others) because of the crap they have to deal with & XDA not enforcing their own rules (this is supposed to have changed after the town hall meeting).

i have been on xda since 2005, left came back etc etc, i do minor edits and coding here and there for myself because i dont have the time like these other people. but honestly most people need to get over themselves. this is a strong community and will live on without you. that said this community has made some people millionaires and others just brats who want the limelight. the idea behind this site is to take the software into our own hands. its us vs. corporations. if devs want to leave cool stfu about it and go but keep in mind that unless you have a contributed to the community dont complain about someones work. devs know what come when you start producing products. its the same that companys deal with. most leave because they get their feelings hurt. its not like people are stalking you and breaking your kneecaps because angry birds wouldnt play during their lunchbreak. ignore the negative and stay or wine and leave. but this place or any place wont change. the more successful you get the harder your skin must be

About me and why it all got under my skin.
James / jellette / Heathen
39 year old, married, father of 3
<Edited out line, too personal>
I look around and see Darky, Doc, Jim, Eugene, TW and everyone else doing Gingerbread clones - and they aren't called "Copy Cat" - but when I do it I am. That makes a guy pretty darn mad.
I set out to do the latest Rom 100% from scratch without drawing from the work of any existing Rom specifically because of my relationship with TW. The takers out there have no idea how much work goes into doing that.
Here was and continues to be the process with PepperKake.
1. Download the JL5 Rom from samfirmware.com
2. Odin to get a feel for the new firmware.
3. Rip the files from factoryfs.rfs
4. Release the first flashable Odexed recovery safe JL5 by 30 minutes
5. Deodex the apps and jars - on this build I was unsuccessful deodexing swype and I used krylon360's swype and credited him for that.
6. Download the Nexus S dump
7. Pull all of the images I needed out of framework-res.apk and SystemUi.apk and the original bootanimation.zip and the icon out of every matching Gingerbread app
8. Carefully build the theme, re-mod the Gingerbread Launcher and create the faux crt shutdown sequence.
9. Rip the gps files from the Nexus S dump including permissions for gps and maps and restructure JL5 to call these files
10. Replace with 3E recovery, ensure the sdcard mounts, etc..
11. Flash and fix 219 times until it is 99% bug free and ready for an Alpha release.
As you can see, this is not a weekend cooked rom as put earlier in the thread.
I update my roms usually once a day until it is complete, I fulfill requests for kernel flash packs for the rom, etc..
I did get pretty angry and pulled my roms - I later replaced the most recent rom. I also set up my website as a backup, which is quickly becoming my primary release source. I will stay around xda though like it or not.
On those who have followed me to the new site in support: Thank you.
Finally, a very short word on TW.
I have nothing but respect for these guys. I learned everything from them.
And that is my word on this.