Database Users

ok...look...lets calm down

First I'm not a mediator mod or any of that, but people we are acting like children.
1. Why are u here?
The devs on this forum are taking personal time! We as community members are not ENTITLED to ROMS. They do this for the love of the platform, so respect that.
2. This is not the Sprint forum.
Again, this forum does not imply or state that EVERYTHING is going to work with whatever ROM u choose. So really, why ***** or hate? Really?
3. What can u add?
Nobody expects anyone to be the cdma hero "hero". Everyone should know they lane and stay in it. Report bugs or dev, its that simple
I don't have the highest post count and I may be out of line but I have been studying/learning here since it was questionable if there would be a sprint hero forum. Let's not **** it up by driving away the same folks that got us here. I know that from past comments this will probably get locked, but if we don't as a whole respect more what's going on we have a chance of loosing it.
Respect to all the devs on here and the work they do, for US!

+1,000,000 Agreed,it's sad when people can't even thank someone without it turning into as bunch of un-needed bull$#17.Just be positive people,some good things are happening,don't let these people ruin things.

I don't post much here anymore, because of some personal reasons with regards to this forum. I still lurk a lot, however, and I just don't see where all the straight-up hate and animosity these posts such as yours are mentioning. I tend to avoid the 80-page threads because they are mostly filled with junk, is it in there?
Perhaps I should check them out.
The hate and animosity and watering down of this subforum with too many useless posts is why I haven't released anything since December. I'm working on a new rom for myself, and I'm thinking less and less like I might want to actually release it here. Last thing I feel like dealing with are a bunch of whiny people who aren't happy with me or my work unless it makes their phone do what THEY want. Where's the reward for devs? Don't anyone even bother mentioning donations.

Support that!

dude props for this! good going. And I agree with you 1000%

its no crime to show thanks and respect to some one for their hard work. if deving was easy we would all be doing it.

obelisk79 said:
I don't post much here anymore, because of some personal reasons with regards to this forum. I still lurk a lot, however, and I just don't see where all the straight-up hate and animosity these posts such as yours are mentioning. I tend to avoid the 80-page threads because they are mostly filled with junk, is it in there?
Perhaps I should check them out.
The hate and animosity and watering down of this subforum with too many useless posts is why I haven't released anything since December. I'm working on a new rom for myself, and I'm thinking less and less like I might want to actually release it here. Last thing I feel like dealing with are a bunch of whiny people who aren't happy with me or my work unless it makes their phone do what THEY want. Where's the reward for devs? Don't anyone even bother mentioning donations.
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This is exactly why we should respect the devs... pretty soon all of them will be gone.

You beat me to it ... but I don't really care.
I think we just got too amped up with all the 2.1 excitement and started trying to outdo oneanother instead of working together. Once the official 2.1 comes out, I think we will see a lot more collaboration to make it as good as possible. In the mean time, always five credit where it is due, and don't worry about who did what first, because it only benefits everybody. That's why our great devs are here: to help create a better device, not to profit or hoard secrets. This is the first real open source project I have been a part of, and I get excited just thinking about what the future has in store for us. Let's make it a great one!

Can we just please stop with these types of threads.

The way I look at it is like a car.
You buy the car, and you COULD just leave it at that. Some people like to mod their car and optimize it for maximum performance. Many people do not know how to do this, so they need to take it some someone who does know how, and the mechanic for damn sure isnt going to do that *** for free. I think of our devs a mechanics, optimizing my phone for me because I have no idea how to develop to my phone. The difference here is that they are doing this **** for free. So what if they ask for a donation, bums on the street ask for "donations" for doing ***. We were going to get 2.1 for free one way or another at some point since we already had the car (Hero for you thick headed people), whether it be a whole 2 days after flipz released it to contributors, or when sprint/htc officially releases it at the rumored end of this month.
And be happy this isnt a car, because if it was not only would you HAVE to pay for the official update, but you would have to pay for the installation and optimization.
Taking a *** chill pill all those people who are too stingy to even donate 1 buck.

Don't make me say the f word and post an off color picture so this thread gets shut down
just playing mods. don't hurt me.

foxracr17 said:
the way i look at it is like a car.
You buy the car, and you could just leave it at that. Some people like to mod their car and optimize it for maximum performance. Many people do not know how to do this, so they need to take it some someone who does know how, and the mechanic for damn sure isnt going to do that **** for free. I think of our devs a mechanics, optimizing my phone for me because i have no idea how to develop to my phone. The difference here is that they are doing this **** for free. So what if they ask for a donation, bums on the street ask for "donations" for doing ****. We were going to get 2.1 for free one way or another at some point since we already had the car (hero for you thick headed people), whether it be a whole 2 days after flipz released it to contributors, or when sprint/htc officially releases it at the rumored end of this month.
And be happy this isnt a car, because if it was not only would you have to pay for the official update, but you would have to pay for the installation and optimization.
Taking a ****ing chill pill all those people who are too stingy to even donate 1 buck.
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this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! .

Tipharet said:
Can we just please stop with these types of threads.
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No kidding... I am pretty sick of hearing people explain to me why I should be grateful to the rom developers. Like saying "The devs on this forum are taking personal time!" is some enlightening way to look at it. Everyone knows that already. And it gets really old seeing people make threads like this in an effort to get brownie points around here. There are so many threads EXACTLY like this. You are pushing posts that actually have a use out of view for a lot of people.
Oh wait, I have a difference of opinion. Lets start another thread and label it disrespect to the development gods...

Thank you. And I mean that. Because of XDA and it's amazing devs, I have gotten more out of this phone than I ever imagined. I have never had a phone that could do so much and people here were always willing to help me with a problem. And that is wonderful. I am glad that I joined this forum. In fact, I look forward to checking it every day. lol I don't know a lot about Linux, Java, or coding, but I do however know a lot about photography. I am a professional. So, if anyone needs help that way, I am completely for helping...I mean, all of you have helped me...I'd like to return the favor.
-Ken

flexgrip said:
No kidding... I am pretty sick of hearing people explain to me why I should be grateful to the rom developers. Like saying "The devs on this forum are taking personal time!" is some enlightening way to look at it. Everyone knows that already. And it gets really old seeing people make threads like this in an effort to get brownie points around here. There are so many threads EXACTLY like this. You are pushing posts that actually have a use out of view for a lot of people.
Oh wait, I have a difference of opinion. Lets start another thread and label it disrespect to the development gods...
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Actually that wasn't my point at all. My point is threads like this do nothing but divert attention to them, it perpetuates the negativity. New users come in these threads and see this and "ask what I missed" then it gets started over and over again.
As soon as these threads die (yes I realize I bump when I reply) the drama will also follow. Donate, dont donate, dev, dont dev ( not really) but just treat each other like some one you would walk by on the street or have a conversation with while standing in a line.

Asking for your cake and eating it 2.
I dont post alot here as well due to personal issues here on the form (so many smarty pants people on here)
But if i see a rom that i like (or app) i give the dev his props and thank him for putting in hard work when he or she could of been doing something else not trying please us and make our phones better then the stock ones.
Not saying the next person have to do the same. But if i wasted 5hrs of my time. and your running around showing off with my work i would like some props.
This dont even have nothng to do with roms or dev so im sure its going to get closed down soon. You people are just wasting your time making these threads people going to do what they going to do.

It's true that these type of threads may seem senseless and get hijacked to negativity... but in the past, my experience is that when moderators and dev's get fed up enough the forum/site would become closed and open to invitation only type membership, i.e., PRIVATE ACCESS!
That scenario is both good and bad... "Good" if you're in the loop, but potentially "Bad" because you just might end up on the outside looking in with your nose pressed against the window! So PROPS it is...
I have come to XDA for a long time, joined only so I could post, and only recently began to do so. But, that said, it has been indispensable for the provision of knowledge and fixes for handsets that the manufacturers and or carriers are unable to do themselves... so again - PROPS it is... no reason to drag it down.
+++++1,000 thanks to the awesome work being done!
There are those who truly can never be pleased, yet, I think that ration is extremely small. So again, for something I would gladly pay for, but am not required to do, I offer the easiest thing, a gesture of THANKS!

Who to donate to...

Over the past couple months their seems to be more quote on quote "developers" asking for donations for their work or at least their latest.
Something to keep in mind is these "developers" are merely piecing together other's work that can be found by searching through the android parts of this board. Now while I do appreciate the time they spent piecing parts together I feel someone more important is being over looked, the people that get us the firmware that makes it possible.
So the next time you think a certain developer is worth your donation, take the time to donate to the people that give these developers the base to work with, without these firmware leaks, the dev's would have nothing to build from.
thanks

rsfaze said:
Over the past couple months their seems to be more quote on quote "developers" asking for donations for their work or at least their latest.
Something to keep in mind is these "developers" are merely piecing together other's work that can be found by searching through the android parts of this board. Now while I do appreciate the time they spent piecing parts together I feel someone more important is being over looked, the people that get us the firmware that makes it possible.
So the next time you think a certain developer is worth your donation, take the time to donate to the people that give these developers the base to work with, without these firmware leaks, the dev's would have nothing to build from.
thanks
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So you're saying you want us to donate to Samsung? Or some unknown that leaks firmware?
I donated enough to Samsung when I bought the phone. If it worked like it was supposed to, I wouldn't need anything from anyone else.

People really asked you to donate?
V5 custom vibrant

This guys last 4 or so posts are all negative towards Master because he lets Donator's have first dibs on new releases... which Team Whiskey also does/did?
All I read was...
blah blah, wasted thread, blah... /rant.

Ah ha I see
V5 custom vibrant

Yeah, donations to Samfirmware seem to be in order. I'd give my money to them before the developers here.

While I do appreciate developers putting their time into these roms, until they start releasing roms that are all give and no take(ie a slight increase in response in exchange for a lot of battery life; losing functionality of certain apps or functions etc), I couldn't justify donating a dime. If the only bugs in your rom are the same as the phone comes with, but you've increased performance slightly or fixed a bug or two, then I'd donate a few bucks. I don't donate for the sake of donating just like my employer won't pay me for sitting around doing a half-assed job.
I'm on a stock froyo rom right now, no lagfix or overclock, and it's running as smooth as any team whiskey or axura rom i've used(which would be nearly every), minus the bugs. No offense to any developer here, but I need something worth my hard earned money. I was real close to donating for the 1.6ghz overclock kernel until it turned ugly. Stuff like that, and less buggy roms with more features are where I'll be putting my money.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

So this is kinda like another I got banned for a day wah wah wah type deal at least if it had a hateful title it would be gone already
V5 custom vibrant

Developers have never demanded that we donate. Last I knew WE have a choice in what WE want to do. I donated my kids clothes that no longer fit them to the salvation army. I stay at work longer than required, so in theory I donated my time. My friend was moving so I donated my truck to make it easier for him. I donated a pepsi to Master because he was thirsty. I have never asked for anything in return. I did it because I wanted to.
These were all MY decisions to make.
Master has not made anyone donate to get a ROM. All he does is pay it forward. You buy him a Pepsi...you get access to a donor forum and a thank you. Pretty nice guy I say!

And people wonder why developers leave XDA....

This is directed at allthrottle. To sit and say that a leaked stock 2. 2 is better than the modded roms here is just plain ridiculous. The nerve of some people who complain about free stuff..... as for the OP, you do seem jaded. Threads like these do no good. Find a Rom you like, and donate if you want. It's real simple.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

No, it's been my experience so far that this leaked rom has been less buggy overall than every other 2.2 rom Ive tried yet. It may not be as responsive to begin with, but its been consistantly smooth, which I couldnt say about any dev rom Ive tried(again, my experience). Im excited to see the latest, less buggy leak though. I cant say its 100% stock, it does have launcher pro and bloatware removed along with a couple of apps frozen.
And again, this isnt to say the devs suck, because Im very grateful for their work so far. But nothing yet has done enough for me to merit a donation. Im looking forward to someone releasing something that does, though.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

I don't like custom roms for the same reason. They're either hideously themed and/or have more bugs than the rom it's based on, some of these bugs being crippling. It's just not the same.

Dammit2Hell said:
So you're saying you want us to donate to Samsung? Or some unknown that leaks firmware?
I donated enough to Samsung when I bought the phone. If it worked like it was supposed to, I wouldn't need anything from anyone else.
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Not at all, but consider the people that get us the firmwares, from what I've heard they have seen ZERO donations.
willsnews said:
People really asked you to donate?
V5 custom vibrant
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No but some surely do put it out there more often than others, I consider that begging. Developers do this because they love it, not because it's a payday for them.
s15274n said:
This guys last 4 or so posts are all negative towards Master because he lets Donator's have first dibs on new releases... which Team Whiskey also does/did?
All I read was...
blah blah, wasted thread, blah... /rant.
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You are surely entitled to your opinions just as I am, sad you can't see the larger writing on the wall but then again, this world is full of blind people.
heygrl said:
Yeah, donations to Samfirmware seem to be in order. I'd give my money to them before the developers here.
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BINGO, without these leaks, there would be no further rom development, yet the guys that risk their jobs to leak these firmwares never get donations.
and for what it's worth this thread has nothing to do with hate towards any one person but to help inform the members here that developers that release these "custom" roms are only part of the equation. The bigger picture is if there is no firmware there is no improved roms, just different colored roms with apps zipped into them.

Donate to me for reading that
V5 custom vibrant

donate to people who don't have food to eat, home to live, clothes to wear.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

if you don't know who to donate to, you can always donate to me.
just sayin...

He means to.the origanal.developer meaning.dont.donate to.those who only thene and call it their own personal rom whichis bs
Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk

heygrl said:
Yeah, donations to Samfirmware seem to be in order. I'd give my money to them before the developers here.
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I agree. I would still be using stock on the phone JFD with no new firmware updates available to flash, and no ROMS based on anything other than JFD or phone dumps of different firmware. Also, I don't think we would have Odin either.

RE: ▽▲ AXURA Vibrant Edition ▼△ Development Stopped.

RE: ▽▲ AXURA Vibrant Edition ▼△ Development Stopped.
First I'd like to say that was a punk move. Secondly, there's plenty of other great ROMs out there. I'm not sad, nor upset. I'm not going to kiss Master's ass. (I'm a software developer, I could take my own time to do this same ****) I'm also not going to flame or trash him (That'd be a waste of bandwidth and time).
The politics on these forums is ridiculous. You get something for free and then everyone *****es when things don't go their way. Devs take their personal time to provide you with something 'cool' or 'different' and you have a few select people ruining it for others. I don't 100% agree with 'Donating' to get 'early releases', but whatever. It is what it is. I'll roll with 2.0.6 AKA Axura Final until I get bored or something different catches my eye.
I'll admit, I really liked the theming done to it. I'm so sick of black and stupid ugly colors (I have a bit of a desiger background) that a lot of people call 'cool' or thinks 'looks great!'. And after searching for a ROM that didn't look like total ****, I actually considered getting involved in the theming community. We'll see.
Haters will hate.

I'm just taken away by this, I go out to eat with ole girl, come back and everything is stopped. I'm keeping 2.1 one for a while now, its destined to be a relic. But it is a damn good ROM, and skoal had to **** it up for everyone. I am sure he has recieved TONS of PMs from pissed off followers of Master, and rightfully so. However, I will not partake in anything like that.
I'm hoping this is just a phase that will blow over. Master came out of no where, it a place dominated by the "heavy hitters" and made a name for himself.

Good, mature post.
When somethings turns from being appreciated into being expected...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

I don't understand why a single leak is being blown so big.
How do you think we got the froyo release? ---(Leaked)
You dont see samsung *****ing and pouting about stopping development (which is minimal anyway).
I am running the captivate port for the 2.0 rom and hands down it is the fastest and most stable rom in our rom dev.

xtremekilla09 said:
I don't understand why a single leak is being blown so big.
How do you think we got the froyo release? ---(Leaked)
You dont see samsung *****ing and pouting about stopping development (which is minimal anyway).
I am running the captivate port for the 2.0 rom and hands down it is the fastest and most stable rom in our rom dev.
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Its not all WHAT was done, but what was SAID, and how it went down. Blatant disrespect.

xtremekilla09 said:
I don't understand why a single leak is being blown so big.
How do you think we got the froyo release? ---(Leaked)
You dont see samsung *****ing and pouting about stopping development (which is minimal anyway).
I am running the captivate port for the 2.0 rom and hands down it is the fastest and most stable rom in our rom dev.
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+1
When we try to stop the leaking of leaked roms then I think it's getting out of control.
I can fully appreciate Master +all the other devs for the work but the fact is, one person gets the rom early and Master calls foul... big deal. Get over it. I wonder how many leaked roms from other devs have fallen into Master's lap.

+1
couped said:
Good, mature post.
When somethings turns from being appreciated into being expected...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
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Exactly my thoughts.

razormy said:
+1
When we try to stop the leaking of leaked roms then I think it's getting out of control.
I can fully appreciate Master +all the other devs for the work but the fact is, one person gets the rom early and Master calls foul... big deal. Get over it. I wonder how many leaked roms from other devs have fallen into Master's lap.
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This is the first I've been involved with any ROM outside of the G1 realm (CyanogenMod) and I don't know of any other project where you can donate to get special treatment. Honestly, that's where the problem started. Dealing with money and VIP status. Cyanogen doesn't release anything until he's ready. Mainly so he can avoid the barrage of "X doesn't work, plz/fix/k/thx!". I also don't think if a few people get ZOMG v6.0.1.2-FINAL, that he'd be too upset.
There is a sense of quality control. You don't want a lot of people to get an early release to prevent the spamming of complaints. It's distracting and takes away from your project plan. If this was a real dev shop there'd be a bug tracking list and a handful of devs hacking away at their assigned tickets.
Overall, (both parties included, or and I guess the leaker too) it's a punk move. What are we? 12? (Sometimes I think we are! after all the bickering I read)
Meh... :|

It is a shame. While I wasn't going to donate to get a pre-release copy, I was going to donate after the final version was released assuming it worked fine as a thank you for his hard work (I had a few issues with 2.05 and was waiting before flashing again).
It is his right though, even if it is confusing when considering the circumstances of how these types of ROMs got started in the first place.

This forum is so crappy now..
everyone wants rewarded and begs for money
Master I thought was the worse...

icebrkr said:
This is the first I've been involved with any ROM outside of the G1 realm (CyanogenMod) and I don't know of any other project where you can donate to get special treatment. Honestly, that's where the problem started. Dealing with money and VIP status. Cyanogen doesn't release anything until he's ready. Mainly so he can avoid the barrage of "X doesn't work, plz/fix/k/thx!". I also don't think if a few people get ZOMG v6.0.1.2-FINAL, that he'd be too upset.
There is a sense of quality control. You don't want a lot of people to get an early release to prevent the spamming of complaints. It's distracting and takes away from your project plan. If this was a real dev shop there'd be a bug tracking list and a handful of devs hacking away at their assigned tickets.
Overall, (both parties included, or and I guess the leaker too) it's a punk move. What are we? 12? (Sometimes I think we are! after all the bickering I read)
Meh... :|
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Agreed. Thanks for this thread. I hated reading the last one because of all the nonsense. A new rom will come and the fools will be foolish.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

kingrat said:
This forum is so crappy now..
everyone wants rewarded and begs for money
Master I thought was the worse...
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Let's not trash talk or name names... ok?

problem with forums like this
The problem with forums like this is they break out something like this:
10% 12-18
40% 19-26
40% 27-45
10% 46-60+ (where I fall into)
So, since age and maturity is the problem (or lack of maturity) there is no way to regulate that, not in an open forum....we are just left to self regulation........and as such, it will always be imperfect.
What is important is to be respectful and mature in the treatment (doing what they ask) of each other. The leaked rom from one friend to another is not really the core issue...........it is the public proclamation "Hey I got over on you" that demonstrates both the lack of respect and lack of maturity. This adolescent behavior (which the guilty one thinks is cute) damages our experience in this forum or in other forums. A Shame really.......

This forum gets ridiculous full of ungrateful people it really ruins development of great phones, people start to think they deserve something that was given out of good faith to help them hence original 2.2 leak
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App

Lets see if I can say this without sounding rude... Fok master, do the **** your self, a lot of his **** is off leaked stuff and others work...
he should be happy someone wanted his **** that bad...
By the way donating for a early release isn't a donation, thats a payment..... Never using his rom again, imma go stock and make the rom myself, you all could to its simple....
EDIT: Hell I remember when Master was trying to over run BIONIX lol Dude was all in their business... Trying to side help their ****. Man common Master, This is a punk move, for this You will never get a second look from me... Peace man, Just needed them donations/ Payments huh

Not allowing people to distribute his ROM is a violation of the GPL. He may ask, but he has no basis to. He built a ROM based on pre-released code and Open Source code and has no valid position to stop the same. Sure, he can get pissy if people do, that is certainly his right, but the moment he makes it available to anyone that person clearly has the right to distribute it unless it has actual proprietary software on it.
The person asking was within their rights
The person who gave it out was within their rights
Master getting pissed and stopping further development for people exercising their rights is completely within his rights.
Life goes on, shame, I was waiting for 2.1, time to move on.

kingrat said:
This forum is so crappy now..
everyone wants rewarded and begs for money
Master I thought was the worse...
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I've seen you in Master's thread, you've contributed nothing but disrespect and you're part of the reason he closed his thread.
FYI, Master isn't discontinuing development. He is choosing not to share with XDA. Anyone that is interested in his work can still find it on his forum.
Seems a lot of Devs are keeping their work on their own sites. From what I've seen on this site in the last few weeks, I don't blame them.

I think it's messed up for those that paid for his roms now to get no support.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

First of all thanks for making this thread OP. I want to get a few things out here as well.
Very immature on the part of everyone involved. Seriously grow up and get on with it.
This donation stuff is nothing more than payment and that is right. But the payment isn't so much for the software as it is the help in putting it together and getting it all to play nice. Sure you could piece it all together yourself if you had enough free time it isn't THAT hard. Or like me if your time is more valuable you can sling homeboy <INSERT NAME HERE> $10 and have him put it together for you. I value my time greatly and I lead a very busy life so I am very happy paying someone $10 if it even saves 30 minutes of my day. I am highly skilled and do computer security work for a living so it has nothing to do with knowledge or ability.
So lets make that clear. You are donating for their time not the actual software itself. Some of these guys spend a ton of time on their ROMs and if I can get that for a piddly $10-$25 donation then I say that is a deal. And on top of that he even offers personalized support when this ROM doesn't work.
I don't think the issue here is requiring donations because if they didn't nobody would donate so that is only fair. And it is more than reasonable for them to try to get some reward for time and effort invested. Especially if they have a website to support!

jnutz said:
First of all thanks for making this thread OP. I want to get a few things out here as well.
Very immature on the part of everyone involved. Seriously grow up and get on with it.
This donation stuff is nothing more than payment and that is right. But the payment isn't so much for the software as it is the help in putting it together and getting it all to play nice. Sure you could piece it all together yourself if you had enough free time it isn't THAT hard. Or like me if your time is more valuable you can sling homeboy <INSERT NAME HERE> $10 and have him put it together for you. I value my time greatly and I lead a very busy life so I am very happy paying someone $10 if it even saves 30 minutes of my day. I am highly skilled and do computer security work for a living so it has nothing to do with knowledge or ability.
So lets make that clear. You are donating for their time not the actual software itself. Some of these guys spend a ton of time on their ROMs and if I can get that for a piddly $10-$25 donation then I say that is a deal. And on top of that he even offers personalized support when this ROM doesn't work.
I don't think the issue here is requiring donations because if they didn't nobody would donate so that is only fair. And it is more than reasonable for them to try to get some reward for time and effort invested. Especially if they have a website to support!
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I couldn't agree more.

Mandatory "donations" for ROM access?

This is becoming more and more common. Does it bother anybody else? I mean i dont lose sleep over it, but it kind of ruins the "community" feel and turns things into more of a business.
Donations are slowly turning into payments. This is precisely why i PERSONALLY never believed in the word donation in the development world, but lets not get into that debate.
I mean, if a dev/dev team is really good, im sure they get more than enough donations to fund their work, seeing as though im always seeing people on the forums talk about how theyll donate or how much they donated. I feel like whats happening is a dev/dev team starts out strong, and at first is just soaking up the notoriety amongst users, and understandably so. But as time goes, and their knowledge and popularity grows, they realize "hey, we could probably make some serious money off this" but then they realize that that just goes against the whole "doing it in your free time" or "doing what we love doing" concepts, so they insist on continuing to label it a "donation".
Let me be clear, I have absolutely no problem with a dev/dev team expecting money in order to grant access to something that is popular. Thats what a lot of governments are founded on, and these guys definitely deserve a little spending money for all of the smiles they put on peoples faces. I just dont like the abuse of the word "donation" that takes place. Why dont you just say "you have to pay for it"? Cause thats pretty much what is going down......
This isnt directed at anyone in particular, im simply curious to see how other people feel about it.

I feel the same way. Label it as payment/charge/etc and it will be good. Just dont use the word donation when only a donation gets the user access to an area of forums, kernels, roms, other, software. Its just not correct to do
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

It's incredibly silly. In many cases these people are charging for tweaking something that they didn't create and don't even have the rights to redistribute.
When you get right down to it, every ROM here that's built off of one of the leaked Froyo builds is in murky territory. Although parts of those leaks are GPL'd, there are tons of proprietary Samsung bits in there, and if Samsung felt like it they could slap everybody with a C&D on redistributing that stuff.
On the one hand, the people who distribute leaks (and tweaked ROMs based off of those leaks) for free are taking risks by doing so, and they're doing it to help the community. But on the other, you have people who take those leaks, apply their own tweaks to them, and then charge for the completed product. Those guys are basically profiting from the work that others took a risk in releasing to the public, which is ridiculous.
The best way to deal with it is to not simply not "donate" to people who pull such shenanigans.

JeremyNT said:
It's incredibly silly. In many cases these people are charging for tweaking something that they didn't create and don't even have the rights to redistribute.
When you get right down to it, every ROM here that's built off of one of the leaked Froyo builds is in murky territory. Although parts of those leaks are GPL'd, there are tons of proprietary Samsung bits in there, and if Samsung felt like it they could slap everybody with a C&D on redistributing that stuff.
On the one hand, the people who distribute leaks (and tweaked ROMs based off of those leaks) for free are taking risks by doing so, and they're doing it to help the community. But on the other, you have people who take those leaks, apply their own tweaks to them, and then charge for the completed product. Those guys are basically profiting from the work that others took a risk in releasing to the public, which is ridiculous.
The best way to deal with it is to not simply not "donate" to people who pull such shenanigans.
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Its very important that we dont mention names, to avoid flaming.....but i know exactly who you are talking about in particular....

The trend started with kingklick and everyone was all up in arms about it
But eventually the rest of the developers followed and now its OK for them and they accept it LOL hypocrites
This is another reason making my decision on NS much easier
Some real development will be underway i miss my N1 XDA support back in the day
Not that i dont appreciate what others have done here just most of it wasn't my cup of tea with exception of Eugene's work
But he left for a reasonable reason too much BS but his work is still freely available

It would be nice to hear a devs take on this but on the other hand this could just start a huge ordeal I understand what you guys are saying but I don't think this thread is going to help any development at all in fact it may even be counter productive the dev group is growing for the vibrant but I wouldn't say there are enough devs to start pissing people off and making them lose interest in xda all together if its not one thing its another nothing is free in this world eventually if you want something ahead of everyone else you gotta pony up the cash I went to a street fair once at the gate was a booth labeled donations they didn't deny me access when I refused to pay but I didn't enjoy the full access everyone else did when they received theyre wrist bands that got them free drinks your not paying to get in your paying for the cause and the work and the time it takes to create something that millions can enjoy ......i wouldn't get to butt hurt about it its the way of the world be it in day to day life forums or whatever else you think it applies to just my opinion we're all entitled to them I suppose
V5 custom vibrant

I take back allot of what i said apparently some are still releasing roms here

willsnews said:
It would be nice to hear a devs take on this but on the other hand this could just start a huge ordeal I understand what you guys are saying but I don't think this thread is going to help any development at all in fact it may even be counter productive the dev group is growing for the vibrant but I wouldn't say there are enough devs to start pissing people off and making them lose interest in xda all together if its not one thing its another nothing is free in this world
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In terms of my opinion, and what im trying to say, the paragraph in bold in the OP highlights my exact problem. I understand the concept and the need for devs to ask for money in whatever form, and i have absolutely no issue with that. But thats what they are, PAYMENTS. The only thing im questioning is why they insist on calling them donations. They are not donations when they are in the format of a transaction.
do·na·tion noun \dō-ˈnā-shən\
Definition of DONATION
: the act or an instance of donating: as a : the making of a gift especially to a charity or public institution b : a free contribution : gift
trans·ac·tion noun \tran-ˈzak-shən, tran(t)-ˈsak-\
Definition of TRANSACTION
1a : something transacted; especially : an exchange or transfer of goods, services, or funds <electronic transactions>
Theres just something about it that seems a bit unethical to me, almost like a bit of a marketing scam. "Donate" has a much friendlier, less threatening tone to it than "payment". Maybe theres a mindset in place that people will be more inclined to "donate" rather than "pay". Im just trying to figure out why they cant just call it like it is.
Regardless of how you may feel about it, theres no question that sometimes it feels like our "community" is faltering in favor of making money.
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In terms of the devs leaving XDA because of threads like this? i mean come on, we are talking about word definitions here...not insulting peoples families.....

Donation: ASK for CONTRIBUTIONS DURING development
Payment: REQUIRE COMPENSATION for COMPLETED product

I haven't ever seen a developer require payment for a complete product here on XDA. Some give early access to buggy ROMs and kernels, but that's it.

I don't. see anyone asking for a payment to get a full version of a rom. some gets it early when you donated but still the ones who didn't still gets the rom later. If that's how they want it to be then let it be.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

Used to have "buy me a beer" links up at the most a couple of years ago. Seems there was more collaboration among devs like LucidRem who was super nice on G1 apps to SD. Was constantly being tweaked by seperate devs to get a better partition solution for example.
Don't blame me, blame my keyboard's autocorrection algorithm.

Any developer that does that is very clearly breaking the law. They could be very easily sued by anyone that cared.

Haha, even if that's true, which I don't think it is.....i think that would be taking things just a tad too far
Sent from my pocket rocket!

I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM WITH IT!!
I have been on with Android since Day 1. XDA and the developers who come here are the only reason I am so passionate about my phone and android. Without these 2 things a large part of my "hobby" would be severely hampered.
Developers do a tremendous amount for us. Can you imagine being on JI6 right now? I feel that they get barely anything in donations.... if this is a method for them to beta with a small group and reward those who support them/him, than I think they should take advanatage of that... and if it leads to developers earning a bit more than they would normally, awesome for them.
Cause you know what....
When developers are happy.... WE are all happy!!!
I mean come on, they release them to the public anyway.... is it okay for you to whine about not getting something sooner, that you had no part in creating/making.... what gives YOU the right???
PS, both R14 and Nero_Beta are very tasty... can't wait to get my hands on Axura 2.2 soon also.

maybe we should point out who the REAL developers are, and who are the wannabe's like people that take others work and just theme it.
Maybe just maybe then, these people that are rushing to hand over fists of money would donate to the people that actually put things out, and not the winzip blender wannabe's.
I "had" respect for some of these people until I first hand decompiled their rom to find out it wasn't there's at all. Adding a theme and transitions to Windows, does not make it mine.. how hard can that be to understand?

s15274n said:
I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM WITH IT!!I mean come on, they release them to the public anyway.... is it okay for you to whine about not getting something sooner, that you had no part in creating/making.... what gives YOU the right???.
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well i really hope youre not referring to me......i have a good paying a job and if i really wanted to pay for a ROM i would, but i dont......check my signature, i AM still runnning JI6, i dont use Macnut or Obsidian (neither ever required donations). I am speaking purely based on observation, not personal experience.
I mean if i was stuck stuck with JI6 forever, i wouldnt be thatdisappointed, because i have my phone setup exactly how i want it. Im not a fan of leaked ROMs, never have been. So i wont be waiting up all night waiting for Nero to go public either.
Please dont confuse me for one of those crybabies who just HAS to get their greedy fingers on the newest ROM right away just to be with the "in-crowd"...thats not what im about
s15274n said:
if this is a method for them to beta with a small group and reward those who support them/him, than I think they should take advanatage of that... and if it leads to developers earning a bit more than they would normally, awesome for them
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please dont misunderstand me, you have to read carefully what im trying to say....i have absolutely NO ISSUE with devs receiving money....none. they often deserve it. i just dont like the way the concept of "donating" is presented sometimes. The way you outlined it ^^ is a great way of wording the way it SHOULD be appraoched....unfortunately it isnt always approached that way, and THOSE are the instances im referring to in my OP

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_General_Public_License
This issue is that a custom ROM is built upon the work of thousands of other people that all licensed their work under the GPL because they wanted to it to be used that way. When someone takes their work and sells it, they are expressly misusing the work of others.
I think its fantastic that people are willing to put their time into developing ROMs, but at the same time it's very disrespectful and illegal to not follow the wishes of the people whose work the ROMs are built on. Ultimately, ROMs are very, very minor tweaks to what has been the result of almost twenty years and millions of man hours of work. If you want to be a part of that, that's great, but you have to play by the rules. After all, those rules are what made ROM development possible.

I can understand why they do it. Most people don't know how many hours go into just developing a theme let a long a full rom. So I understand them wanting to make some money for their time, but I also do agree with people who think they should not have a donation requirement to download, they should label it as a pay to download / theme or rom.
Here is an example of why I think devs do a required donation:
Here is the Nexus Theme I made (Did not ask for donations): http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=860198
To date this has had: 318 downloads
Amount of donations recieved: $0
Time Spent making it: 10+ Hrs
Here is the Frobuntu theme I made (Asked for Donations): http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=846285
To date this has had: 333 Downloads
Amount of donations recieved: $20
Time Spent Making it: 20+ hrs
So I can see why they do this. It makes a difference when you ask for the donations, but... again there should not be a required donation. That is called "selling" your rom/theme. They could do it the way I did the Frobuntu rom where I "Highly Suggested" a donation amount in big letters in the header of the post, but still gave it away to those who cannot pay.
Just my two cents. I would never flame or look down upon a dev for choosing to require a donation, that is their decision. I just choose not to do that myself.

No offense but most custom roms have a couple issues, needing to be fixed in the next release, meaning in a few days your gonna have to flash again, then the cycle continues, another bug so needing a new release... But the new release isn't faster, better or any cooler than the release before...lol
I'm on stock jk6 with my tweaks, my mods, and my setup, I was on customs for a bit, but all this donation crap has made me not wanting to try custom roms from anyone here, especially with all the drama :d
Needless to say I've never donated anything other than to xda itself..... I would never give my money to people just doing this for fun just like I do.... Donate to me then lol...
Anyways, id advise against donating to get a early release that ain't any better than the one before....lol
All I can say is suckeeeeers... Sorry but true, you have been hustled...
P.s. Anyone with a donate to me sign in their sig or whatever are completely retarded imo..... Lol

[???]Captain Obvious asks a dumb question

OK here goes, the question that is probably obvious to alot of the dev types on these forums, and maybe to some of the non as well. (And yes I full expect to get flamed throughout this thread for my thoughts on this so bring it on).
Question?
Has the business model of the world become so internallized that companies such as our beloved samsung *cough cough choke* , and tmobile really think that they can turn a a semi-blind eye (yes I know that they are aware we root, and flash custom roms) to the incredible talent that is out there? And that becasue they are the giant that the masses will still support them?
Now my thoughts
Samsung has taken months to produce a version of froyo that they could put out to the masses, I really do believe that tmobile plays a heavy part in that as well, adding the bloat and crap that we inevidably remove. Both of them together are to blame.
Now at the same time we have these teams of programmers and graphic artists, designers, and coders that within days (sometimes hours) of new source being leaked they have built stable, custom roms, themes, mods, kernels, lagfixes,,,etc. And these make our phones into what samsung could have only dreamed about.
Also you will never convince me that the leaks are not at times done to help samsung, tmobile, or whoever fix a problem they can't figure out INTERNALLY. (back to the internal business question again)
Now stay with me and remember that I am only questioning big business practices and arrogance,,,don't hate on me!!!
To me the answer to all of this is obvious in the dreamwold state that I am in, so here is what I really don't understand,,
Why are Samsung and T-Mobile not contracting with Teams like Team Whiskey, and Master to build custom roms, with designers like Jdan, and Tonicacid to build themes, with Eugene and Krylon360, chainfire, Whitehawkx, and supercurio, to build custom kernels, and modems? (I know i missed alot of talent,,,sorry if I missed you)
Yes, I like having the opportunity to get all this for free. (BTW I have at one time or another donated to almost everyone I mentioned above. If i use your stuff and like it I pay for it) Giving the source code to these people and contracting them to build freely (freedom is the key to the builds) would benefit everyone I think. I would pay $10 for a rom, $5 for a cool theme, and $2or $3 for a cool mod.Doesnt sound like much, but the quantity of those out there doing it would generate a sizeable amount of money. In fact I am sure that there are people with the means to request a complete custom setup for the right price, and you know that to have a truly one of a kind set up with custom icons coloring and such people would pay for it. And if these were available in a controlled setting that johnny homeowner could do safely, or have done at a store, the possibilities are limitless.
I can understand the potential liability of people flashing their phones, and bricking, but I'm sure that problem could be somehow solved (to a point there are always stupid people out there).
Ideas? Thoughts? Rants?,,,
I am now officially off my sopabox, let the hating begin,,,,,

Let me tell you why, because people who works at sansumg...for them its a job. On the other hand for the devs here, its a passion or hobbit. When is the last time you see someone going to their office and enjoys their work? So they dont work as fast or even.slacks off here and there. Not many right? Also. The dev here can get away with posting rom that bricks because they usually have a disclaimure reliefing them of responsibilities, samsung doesnt get that with tmobile or the public thus it takes them longer to make sure everything works, and because of that they cant try more radical approches like those being incorporated into the roms here. Monetary support is also a factor, supporting an old phone doesnt make you money, unless you charge for firmware update like apple used to.

Like any other big business there are many different players with many different desires. That's the game of politics... They have to take into account the liability they could take on by using something that could cost them too much money....
That being said...I completely agree with you! They need to take on the talent that the world has to offer. Android is Open Source for a reason...to allow for everyone to throw their ideas at it. Google has given everyone the opportunity to show what they can do. I appreciate the Devs we have here on XDA. If anything I would like to thank all the hard working Devs & XDA for giving us a centralized place to access all the riches the world has to offer.

PaiPiePia said:
The dev here can get away with posting rom that bricks because they usually have a disclaimure reliefing them of responsibilities, samsung doesnt get that with tmobile or the public thus it takes them longer to make sure everything works, and because of that they cant try more radical approches like those being incorporated into the roms here.
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This is exactly the reason. Let's not pretend that everything the devs do here is perfect. It's not.

PaiPiePia said:
The dev here can get away with posting rom that bricks because they usually have a disclaimure reliefing them of responsibilities
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Hang on there PeePants. These devs are GIVING their work away! They do their best to beta release them first! And there is almost NO SUCH THING AS "A ROM THAT BRICKS YOUR PHONE" since it is so easy to Odin back.
pdefazio said:
This is exactly the reason. Let's not pretend that everything the devs do here is perfect. It's not.
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Nor do you have any right to demand perfection. Maybe that's why they call it 'Development'!!!

The devs on here for the most part do it as a hobby. The amount of work whether it be hours or days, that goes into some of these roms ANNDDDD(for emphasis) the UPDATTTEESSS, we as a consumer would say eff that I can't afford this anymore.
Big business is in the market of making money with as little effort or cost as possible. Hardware is cheap, easy and linear so they grab the consumers attention by advertising this amazing machine's specs. The "average consumer guy" just sees blinking lights and "I am a man because of my awesome phone specs" stuff and buys it no questions asked. Out of 50 customers I can only assume 1 might come in and ask which version of Android is running on their phone.
We are a small SMALL % of their market so why would they bring in these amazing teams to update and develop if they can pay someone to get as little as possible on the table to satisfy the average consumer.
You want to share with the world? Get a 3rd party license to develop with T-Mobile and/or Samsung, which btw will cost you Millions, then hire on these guys and sell their "labor"(since Android is open source). Once all that is done, tell me how you plan to turn a profit at $5-10 or even $20 a ROM. Again, once contracted the devs will be charging for updates(labor) as well.
No flaming needed here, actually a good conversation.

Yes, they are ignoring talent, but companies don't give a **** about anything until it starts impacting their bottom line.
I've always been a firm of believer of "vote with your money." This is the first Samsung smart phone I've ever bought and every month that passes with Samsung ignoring the GPS issue cements my thought that it will also be the last.
We can lament all we want, but if next year you go and buy another Samsung phone/product, you're doing nothing to change things.

No.
Sorry to rain on your parade, but no dev that doesn't work with samsung can't.
The devs here are strictily MODIFIERS.
samsung is.the.creator.
Without them we have nothing.
They leak out kernels, and our devs modify to make it faster and stable.
NO dev here can make drivers for your phone.NO DEV can make kernels without using something from samsung.
I understand why u all hate samsung but be thankful their atleast giving leaks.
Also I agree with the guy above the devs here have an excuse , "u didn't read the disclaimer"
Also there have been plenty of roms that brick users.

hellcatrydr said:
Hang on there PeePants. These devs are GIVING their work away! They do their best to beta release them first! And there is almost NO SUCH THING AS "A ROM THAT BRICKS YOUR PHONE" since it is so easy to Odin back.
Nor do you have any right to demand perfection. Maybe that's why they call it 'Development'!!!
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Obviously you can't hold a proper, intelligent and civil conversation without resorting to name calling and fanboy attitude. This is the second time you called me pee pants for no reason, you sir are going on my ignore list.
blizzard1017 said:
The devs on here for the most part do it as a hobby. The amount of work whether it be hours or days, that goes into some of these roms ANNDDDD(for emphasis) the UPDATTTEESSS, we as a consumer would say eff that I can't afford this anymore.
Big business is in the market of making money with as little effort or cost as possible. Hardware is cheap, easy and linear so they grab the consumers attention by advertising this amazing machine's specs. The "average consumer guy" just sees blinking lights and "I am a man because of my awesome phone specs" stuff and buys it no questions asked. Out of 50 customers I can only assume 1 might come in and ask which version of Android is running on their phone.
We are a small SMALL % of their market so why would they bring in these amazing teams to update and develop if they can pay someone to get as little as possible on the table to satisfy the average consumer.
You want to share with the world? Get a 3rd party license to develop with T-Mobile and/or Samsung, which btw will cost you Millions, then hire on these guys and sell their "labor"(since Android is open source). Once all that is done, tell me how you plan to turn a profit at $5-10 or even $20 a ROM. Again, once contracted the devs will be charging for updates(labor) as well.
No flaming needed here, actually a good conversation.
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Learn from this guy, he saw the situation from the same point of view as me, and he expanded on it rather than flaming.

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