Over the past couple months their seems to be more quote on quote "developers" asking for donations for their work or at least their latest.
Something to keep in mind is these "developers" are merely piecing together other's work that can be found by searching through the android parts of this board. Now while I do appreciate the time they spent piecing parts together I feel someone more important is being over looked, the people that get us the firmware that makes it possible.
So the next time you think a certain developer is worth your donation, take the time to donate to the people that give these developers the base to work with, without these firmware leaks, the dev's would have nothing to build from.
thanks
rsfaze said:
Over the past couple months their seems to be more quote on quote "developers" asking for donations for their work or at least their latest.
Something to keep in mind is these "developers" are merely piecing together other's work that can be found by searching through the android parts of this board. Now while I do appreciate the time they spent piecing parts together I feel someone more important is being over looked, the people that get us the firmware that makes it possible.
So the next time you think a certain developer is worth your donation, take the time to donate to the people that give these developers the base to work with, without these firmware leaks, the dev's would have nothing to build from.
thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So you're saying you want us to donate to Samsung? Or some unknown that leaks firmware?
I donated enough to Samsung when I bought the phone. If it worked like it was supposed to, I wouldn't need anything from anyone else.
People really asked you to donate?
V5 custom vibrant
This guys last 4 or so posts are all negative towards Master because he lets Donator's have first dibs on new releases... which Team Whiskey also does/did?
All I read was...
blah blah, wasted thread, blah... /rant.
Ah ha I see
V5 custom vibrant
Yeah, donations to Samfirmware seem to be in order. I'd give my money to them before the developers here.
While I do appreciate developers putting their time into these roms, until they start releasing roms that are all give and no take(ie a slight increase in response in exchange for a lot of battery life; losing functionality of certain apps or functions etc), I couldn't justify donating a dime. If the only bugs in your rom are the same as the phone comes with, but you've increased performance slightly or fixed a bug or two, then I'd donate a few bucks. I don't donate for the sake of donating just like my employer won't pay me for sitting around doing a half-assed job.
I'm on a stock froyo rom right now, no lagfix or overclock, and it's running as smooth as any team whiskey or axura rom i've used(which would be nearly every), minus the bugs. No offense to any developer here, but I need something worth my hard earned money. I was real close to donating for the 1.6ghz overclock kernel until it turned ugly. Stuff like that, and less buggy roms with more features are where I'll be putting my money.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
So this is kinda like another I got banned for a day wah wah wah type deal at least if it had a hateful title it would be gone already
V5 custom vibrant
Developers have never demanded that we donate. Last I knew WE have a choice in what WE want to do. I donated my kids clothes that no longer fit them to the salvation army. I stay at work longer than required, so in theory I donated my time. My friend was moving so I donated my truck to make it easier for him. I donated a pepsi to Master because he was thirsty. I have never asked for anything in return. I did it because I wanted to.
These were all MY decisions to make.
Master has not made anyone donate to get a ROM. All he does is pay it forward. You buy him a Pepsi...you get access to a donor forum and a thank you. Pretty nice guy I say!
And people wonder why developers leave XDA....
This is directed at allthrottle. To sit and say that a leaked stock 2. 2 is better than the modded roms here is just plain ridiculous. The nerve of some people who complain about free stuff..... as for the OP, you do seem jaded. Threads like these do no good. Find a Rom you like, and donate if you want. It's real simple.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
No, it's been my experience so far that this leaked rom has been less buggy overall than every other 2.2 rom Ive tried yet. It may not be as responsive to begin with, but its been consistantly smooth, which I couldnt say about any dev rom Ive tried(again, my experience). Im excited to see the latest, less buggy leak though. I cant say its 100% stock, it does have launcher pro and bloatware removed along with a couple of apps frozen.
And again, this isnt to say the devs suck, because Im very grateful for their work so far. But nothing yet has done enough for me to merit a donation. Im looking forward to someone releasing something that does, though.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
I don't like custom roms for the same reason. They're either hideously themed and/or have more bugs than the rom it's based on, some of these bugs being crippling. It's just not the same.
Dammit2Hell said:
So you're saying you want us to donate to Samsung? Or some unknown that leaks firmware?
I donated enough to Samsung when I bought the phone. If it worked like it was supposed to, I wouldn't need anything from anyone else.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not at all, but consider the people that get us the firmwares, from what I've heard they have seen ZERO donations.
willsnews said:
People really asked you to donate?
V5 custom vibrant
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No but some surely do put it out there more often than others, I consider that begging. Developers do this because they love it, not because it's a payday for them.
s15274n said:
This guys last 4 or so posts are all negative towards Master because he lets Donator's have first dibs on new releases... which Team Whiskey also does/did?
All I read was...
blah blah, wasted thread, blah... /rant.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are surely entitled to your opinions just as I am, sad you can't see the larger writing on the wall but then again, this world is full of blind people.
heygrl said:
Yeah, donations to Samfirmware seem to be in order. I'd give my money to them before the developers here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
BINGO, without these leaks, there would be no further rom development, yet the guys that risk their jobs to leak these firmwares never get donations.
and for what it's worth this thread has nothing to do with hate towards any one person but to help inform the members here that developers that release these "custom" roms are only part of the equation. The bigger picture is if there is no firmware there is no improved roms, just different colored roms with apps zipped into them.
Donate to me for reading that
V5 custom vibrant
donate to people who don't have food to eat, home to live, clothes to wear.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
if you don't know who to donate to, you can always donate to me.
just sayin...
He means to.the origanal.developer meaning.dont.donate to.those who only thene and call it their own personal rom whichis bs
Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk
heygrl said:
Yeah, donations to Samfirmware seem to be in order. I'd give my money to them before the developers here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. I would still be using stock on the phone JFD with no new firmware updates available to flash, and no ROMS based on anything other than JFD or phone dumps of different firmware. Also, I don't think we would have Odin either.
Related
Whats up with all the devs bailing out? Not to mean that in a bad way, I appreciate all of yalls hard work dont get me wrong!
because many people believe that its wrong to donate to a developer who spends so much time working on a rom to get an early release even though they know that they will get it free after a few days.
because people don't have patience.
because people don't appreciate others' works.
because people think that they DESERVE everything that they want and will whine if they don't get it.
because people are ignorant.
justinisyoung said:
because many people believe that its wrong to donate to a developer who spends so much time working on a rom to get an early release even though they know that they will get it free after a few days.
because people don't have patience.
because people don't appreciate others' works.
because people think that they DESERVE new roms with all features working right away
because people are ignorant.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
in sumation becuase there is too much drama going on.
heh I stopped releasing any of my work back in january.
Because someone let a stinky one and pointed the finger at someone else instead
justinisyoung said:
because many people believe that its wrong to donate to a developer who spends so much time working on a rom to get an early release even though they know that they will get it free after a few days.
because people don't have patience.
because people don't appreciate others' works.
because people think that they DESERVE everything that they want and will whine if they don't get it.
because people are ignorant.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really dont understand why it is a bad thing to donate. its just like anything else that is made out there, Just be glad they arent charging you for this stuff. They do it out of there free will. People that want to bit*h about this kinda stuff should be banned.
this donation crap shouldn't have even been allowed now look what's happening.
ok time to kill this thread as it is just going to turn into another troll war just like the other. thanks and goodbye
Just leave the subject alone and let it die out please...
we don't need to keep beating a dead horse...
apollooff320 said:
this donation crap shouldn't have even been allowed now look what's happening.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok so if you go buy a car, you dont want someone to fix it when its broke
Same thing you go by a phone, You want to make it better Right? And for free? Ok well if you want to thank them then you can donate to them.
The whole donating thing you dont have to do it. All the roms will be released to the public, just the people that have donated get a early copy...So what are you actually compliang about with the donations thing here?
Merckle said:
Ok so if you go buy a car, you dont want someone to fix it when its broke
Same thing you go by a phone, You want to make it better Right? And for free? Ok well if you want to thank them then you can donate to them.
The whole donating thing you dont have to do it. All the roms will be released to the public, just the people that have donated get a early copy...So what are you actually compliang about with the donations thing here?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The devs didn't write the software in the rom. They pieced together stuff from other roms. It's not their software. If people want to donate for the customization, fine, but it's not right to charge for other people's hard work. This sort of thing is what will give HTC / Google the ability to start sending DMCA's.
Charging is the difference between sex and prostitution.
gthing said:
The devs didn't write the software in the rom. They pieced together stuff from other roms. It's not their software. If people want to donate for the customization, fine, but it's not right to charge for other people's hard work. This sort of thing is what will give HTC / Google the ability to start sending DMCA's.
Charging is the difference between sex and prostitution.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See I never saw it as them charging for the software, the people who donate get first look the people who didnt still get it. At no point have they said that there was a fee for this software, only if you appreciated the time they have taken and donated, you get first look. Similar to the manner in which HTC was supposed to release the kernel, they released it to sprint first then eventually the general public. Doesnt seem like linux issued a gpl violation against them to stop selling their devices
gthing said:
The devs didn't write the software in the rom. They pieced together stuff from other roms. It's not their software. If people want to donate for the customization, fine, but it's not right to charge for other people's hard work. This sort of thing is what will give HTC / Google the ability to start sending DMCA's.
Charging is the difference between sex and prostitution.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i havent posted about all this drama since im new, but it seems you are the only person with some form of logic. i get both sides of the argument, but instead of asking for donations to get a early release why not just ask for them to just email you? i understand it takes time for flipz to send the rom to everyone,and everyone knows time is money, he should get something for his work, but i dont think asking for a donation for early release is the right way to get it.
most likely he doesnt even want nothing for his work cuz this is a open source community and he just wanted a way to get testers so he can release a more complete rom for all of us, im sure if he knew it was going to be such a problem on the forums he wouldnt have bothered to do the donation thing for an early version. The donations is voluntary but then again u are "Forced" to donate if u want a early version. i fail to see how that is different from buying something that i want. sure it might come out later for free, but right now the only way to get it is to donate/buy it.
munchies!!!
im in no way trying to offend any of the devs, you guys are amazing and i very thankfull for all the work that you guys do. im just giving my meaningless(this is the internet afterall) opinion from the outside looking in.
pntballer1413 said:
i havent posted about all this drama since im new, but it seems you are the only person with some form of logic. i get both sides of the argument, but instead of asking for donations to get a early release why not just ask for them to just email you? i understand it takes time for flipz to send the rom to everyone,and everyone knows time is money, he should get something for his work, but i dont think asking for a donation for early release is the right way to get it.
most likely he doesnt even want nothing for his work cuz this is a open source community and he just wanted a way to get testers so he can release a more complete rom for all of us, im sure if he knew it was going to be such a problem on the forums he wouldnt have bothered to do the donation thing for an early version. The donations is voluntary but then again u are "Forced" to donate if u want a early version. i fail to see how that is different from buying something that i want. sure it might come out later for free, but right now the only way to get it is to donate/buy it.
munchies!!!
im in no way trying to offend any of the devs, you guys are amazing and i very thankfull for all the work that you guys do. im just giving my meaningless(this is the internet afterall) opinion from the outside looking in.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He never asked for donations for an early release. People volunteered donations for an early release. He gave the early release to donators from his last ROM. People got excited and started sending him donations so that they could get it. Flipz never asked them to. The beta release is unfinished and very buggy. You don't have to have it if you can wait a few days so that he can fix the bugs.
from a social psych perspective, having donations tied quid pro quo for something not everyone has the equal availability to experience is essentially going to diminish both sides of the equation here. Flipz will potentially look at the screaming rise in donations in anticipation of redeeming much of his hard earned time and effort in the form of monetary donations. Likewise, from the user perspective - many of you have already donated to get into that early release pool and sign off on the matter by claiming that flipz deserves the donation anyway.
with all the legalities aside here, and focusing solely on what an early release of flipz's rom being given to those who contribute monetary donations, there is no difference in my purchasing of a new microwave at the local sears and my donating to flipz with the added benefit of being sent an insider's link to the current unreleased firmware.
no matter how you flip it, or spin it, what it comes down to regardless of the point of view is preferential treatment. if flipz wants to make some money back on his time spent, as well as his bandwidth costs, this is the most legal way he can do it tbh. but if flipz wants this to be considered "free" for all intensive purposes, then there would be no early release to those who donate. its not free and/or open-source when the availability of the item is discriminated against those who do not donate.
on this last note, flipz will inevitably succumb to "every man has his price". the majority of the devs with blockbusting roms around here deserve their own subforum dedicated to how awesome they are for contributing to this community. I applaud them wholeheartedly. when the factor of money comes into the picture, there are very few people who will not be aroused financially by what people are willing to shell out for. The enthusiasm that we see from a dev who ties money directly into the release of his or her roms will virtually never be the same as one who accepts donations without an added incentive to his or her userbase.
bottom line, i think flipz made the wrong choice on both ends of the equation here. there is now a monetary factor that cannot be overlooked in the impending releases of all future "fresh" roms if nothing is changed. And for that I simply refuse to take part in any of these releases where there is a two-way transaction of goods regardless of the context.
I don't see how hall are not getting this flips donators are essentially his beta testers he's not giving them a finished Rom he's simply doing his thing realesing to donators to test out. They send feedback he fixes and BAM!!! public release with most of The bugs worked out.... how are yall not understanding that
I'm new and can't see the forest through the trees. But I do worry about what will happen when the official 2.1 is released by sprint. Could it be a total unrooting and lock-out?
Just because you charge for something doesnt mean its not open source. Free as in speech, not beer.
This thread keeps rolling downhill, but I see something that needs clarification. Flipz has NEVER EVER asked for a donation OK. Read it again, internalize it. NEVER EVER. You don't like the donation sh*t??? Don't donate and be happy with it. In about 2-4 days, you will have an updated software release after some people have found some bugs and some of them have been fixed. NO ONE is requiring a donation it is completely VOLUNTARY. No one will die for waiting about 4 days for a ROM (although some people sound like they will). Get a grip people. This is very simple.
On top of all this! people donate to him .. but how much do you need to give him? No he did not say... I could had paid .25 and still get it before anyone else..so please STFU!
Looking for 1.2.0... I see activity in the thread at 2:40am but the sticky post goes to a shut down notice... anybody?
Mods locked it because he released 1.2.0 early to donators
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Maybe I should have donated... are we all mad about this or is this something that will go away soon?
Mods got mad that he was releasing to donators and they think he was asking for money for the ROM.
Flipz/Fresh does this for the Hero and the Evo which makes no sense..
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
So sad
threedfreek said:
Maybe I should have donated... are we all mad about this or is this something that will go away soon?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, this is sad for a couple reasons.
1) This is an established developer, who never required anything for use of his roms, and had over 10 revisions located here. He *rewarded* his donators for supporting him. This is not to be confused with a *few* other rom chefs with no proven track record, not released anything to the board and asking for money for a rom. This dev is in a diffrent league and should be treated diffrently IMO.
2) He had alot of users using his roms, he had alot of support and Q&A that is all gone now, the thread is gone but people still use his roms and may want support or something to continue. I dont think making the thread *dissapear* is the correct action. It also insinuates Guilty before proven innocent as the dev is punished before things are worked out.
My 2 cents
I think the mods should explain themselves and see if the community sees any problems with schiz... I for one do not begrudge the guy for early release to donators... fact is this is the american way which I am proud to be a part of.
This is especially lame, because now I have no idea where the hell to get the thing. What if I WANT to donate? He's not charging for the ROM. He's just releasing early to donations.
brian_hoffman said:
Well, this is sad for a couple reasons.
1) This is an established developer, who never required anything for use of his roms, and had over 10 revisions located here. He *rewarded* his donators for supporting him. This is not to be confused with a *few* other rom chefs with no proven track record, not released anything to the board and asking for money for a rom. This dev is in a diffrent league and should be treated diffrently IMO.
2) He had alot of users using his roms, he had alot of support and Q&A that is all gone now, the thread is gone but people still use his roms and may want support or something to continue. I dont think making the thread *dissapear* is the correct action. It also insinuates Guilty before proven innocent as the dev is punished before things are worked out.
My 2 cents
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. I have been using Schizo's rom (1.1.6 w/Mixup kernel) for a couple weeks now and was greatly looking forward to version 1.2. He has done the best on incorporating compatibility with different kernels as well as prompt support.
I think the community is owed an explanation and a way to contact Schizo to see his side of the story.
i agree... he has supported the rom, stayed up late to get out the newest version early and always said he was releasing it regually as well.....
His ROMs actually work and you all freaking delete his thread? What the heck is wrong with you all. Stomping on a DEV, this is like the crap Apple does. Totally Lame. You all need to to reinstate this guy. Folks in this community "donate" money to DEVs and to keeping this site up and running. If word gets out that MODs are deleting threads for pointless reasons then people are going to pull their money out of this site and will start to hurt then help XDA.
Put him back-online and get the MOD to explain his actions!
I agree.
The Epic needs Devs and he seemed like a good one.
I understand the mods hesitance for his methods, but they should lay down GROUND RULES if they think he did something wrong.
I'm fine with it being released early. Call it "beta testing" for those who donated. In fact, with many new ROMs I usually wait a few days in case there are bugs.
The mods should allow the donate early-beta test model, stating it must be released publicly within X days.
Those of us who had donated have received an email from schiz. He says hes trying to work it out with the mods. Hopefully theyll get it worked out, if not, he'll pop up on his own site.
I ran fresh for months on my hero, but i think his donators-get-it-first was based off his website, not xda. I guess because schiz stated that donators would get it early, he got in trouble. If the mods really want to stop this kind of thing, then ban any developer who links to a donation account. But they wont do that, and shouldnt, because devs do deserve donations. But i guess you better not point to the donate link, otherwised youre banned.
Sent from my Epic using XDA app.
I have the latest update and am unsure on installing it. I don't want to install something that I won't have any support for, this is ridiculous. He puts his time, energy and money into making a rom and releases it to some people who have given him donations because they liked his rom so much, nothing wrong with it in my opinion.
Schizo and I are going to be working on a site tonight, since he has the domain and the web space now, we are going to work something up.
Stay tuned. Epic Experience will be right back .
jirafabo said:
I guess because schiz stated that donators would get it early, he got in trouble.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Like I said, he should offer exclusive "beta test" to people via their paypal e-mail addresses.
Then he can keep it off the forums, but still give reason to donate.
I've been on all sides of the equation (developer, donator, and leecher). I think it's fair. Just as long as he releases it, in full, to the leechers within X time. He seems like a quality developer.
Wtf schizo was an awesome dev. He was really dedicated. So what if he released them early to donators. Like someone else saidd, that's the american way. I expect to wait a little longer for something that's free. I understand completely.
I don't get why he was given the banhammer. Unless he said "you can't get 1.2 unless you donate." Then I don't see how it violates tos
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Bring him back, now please
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
phantomevo77 said:
Schizo and I are going to be working on a site tonight, since we has the domain and the web space now, we are going to work something up.
Stay tuned. Epic Experience will be right back .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Whew, the start of this thread almost ruined my Friday. You guys rock!
viper134 said:
I have the latest update and am unsure on installing it. I don't want to install something that I won't have any support for, this is ridiculous. He puts his time, energy and money into making a rom and releases it to some people who have given him donations because they liked his rom so much, nothing wrong with it in my opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you donated, you will continue to get support, don't worry, he isn't giving up just like that.
Epic Experience will continue to get support, so don't worry about that.
guess I don't like the phrase leecher... but I guess if I don't pay I get called names... while this thing is in hot dev I wait to find what I want to keep and what I will call quits on... when I find the "end" I donate... until then I would rather be called a tester... when things go wrong I explain what's going on that might be fixed... in that case I'm a tester... not a leecher... just sayin'
bring back the "greatest epic experience"
RE: ▽▲ AXURA Vibrant Edition ▼△ Development Stopped.
First I'd like to say that was a punk move. Secondly, there's plenty of other great ROMs out there. I'm not sad, nor upset. I'm not going to kiss Master's ass. (I'm a software developer, I could take my own time to do this same ****) I'm also not going to flame or trash him (That'd be a waste of bandwidth and time).
The politics on these forums is ridiculous. You get something for free and then everyone *****es when things don't go their way. Devs take their personal time to provide you with something 'cool' or 'different' and you have a few select people ruining it for others. I don't 100% agree with 'Donating' to get 'early releases', but whatever. It is what it is. I'll roll with 2.0.6 AKA Axura Final until I get bored or something different catches my eye.
I'll admit, I really liked the theming done to it. I'm so sick of black and stupid ugly colors (I have a bit of a desiger background) that a lot of people call 'cool' or thinks 'looks great!'. And after searching for a ROM that didn't look like total ****, I actually considered getting involved in the theming community. We'll see.
Haters will hate.
I'm just taken away by this, I go out to eat with ole girl, come back and everything is stopped. I'm keeping 2.1 one for a while now, its destined to be a relic. But it is a damn good ROM, and skoal had to **** it up for everyone. I am sure he has recieved TONS of PMs from pissed off followers of Master, and rightfully so. However, I will not partake in anything like that.
I'm hoping this is just a phase that will blow over. Master came out of no where, it a place dominated by the "heavy hitters" and made a name for himself.
Good, mature post.
When somethings turns from being appreciated into being expected...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
I don't understand why a single leak is being blown so big.
How do you think we got the froyo release? ---(Leaked)
You dont see samsung *****ing and pouting about stopping development (which is minimal anyway).
I am running the captivate port for the 2.0 rom and hands down it is the fastest and most stable rom in our rom dev.
xtremekilla09 said:
I don't understand why a single leak is being blown so big.
How do you think we got the froyo release? ---(Leaked)
You dont see samsung *****ing and pouting about stopping development (which is minimal anyway).
I am running the captivate port for the 2.0 rom and hands down it is the fastest and most stable rom in our rom dev.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its not all WHAT was done, but what was SAID, and how it went down. Blatant disrespect.
xtremekilla09 said:
I don't understand why a single leak is being blown so big.
How do you think we got the froyo release? ---(Leaked)
You dont see samsung *****ing and pouting about stopping development (which is minimal anyway).
I am running the captivate port for the 2.0 rom and hands down it is the fastest and most stable rom in our rom dev.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
When we try to stop the leaking of leaked roms then I think it's getting out of control.
I can fully appreciate Master +all the other devs for the work but the fact is, one person gets the rom early and Master calls foul... big deal. Get over it. I wonder how many leaked roms from other devs have fallen into Master's lap.
+1
couped said:
Good, mature post.
When somethings turns from being appreciated into being expected...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly my thoughts.
razormy said:
+1
When we try to stop the leaking of leaked roms then I think it's getting out of control.
I can fully appreciate Master +all the other devs for the work but the fact is, one person gets the rom early and Master calls foul... big deal. Get over it. I wonder how many leaked roms from other devs have fallen into Master's lap.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the first I've been involved with any ROM outside of the G1 realm (CyanogenMod) and I don't know of any other project where you can donate to get special treatment. Honestly, that's where the problem started. Dealing with money and VIP status. Cyanogen doesn't release anything until he's ready. Mainly so he can avoid the barrage of "X doesn't work, plz/fix/k/thx!". I also don't think if a few people get ZOMG v6.0.1.2-FINAL, that he'd be too upset.
There is a sense of quality control. You don't want a lot of people to get an early release to prevent the spamming of complaints. It's distracting and takes away from your project plan. If this was a real dev shop there'd be a bug tracking list and a handful of devs hacking away at their assigned tickets.
Overall, (both parties included, or and I guess the leaker too) it's a punk move. What are we? 12? (Sometimes I think we are! after all the bickering I read)
Meh... :|
It is a shame. While I wasn't going to donate to get a pre-release copy, I was going to donate after the final version was released assuming it worked fine as a thank you for his hard work (I had a few issues with 2.05 and was waiting before flashing again).
It is his right though, even if it is confusing when considering the circumstances of how these types of ROMs got started in the first place.
This forum is so crappy now..
everyone wants rewarded and begs for money
Master I thought was the worse...
icebrkr said:
This is the first I've been involved with any ROM outside of the G1 realm (CyanogenMod) and I don't know of any other project where you can donate to get special treatment. Honestly, that's where the problem started. Dealing with money and VIP status. Cyanogen doesn't release anything until he's ready. Mainly so he can avoid the barrage of "X doesn't work, plz/fix/k/thx!". I also don't think if a few people get ZOMG v6.0.1.2-FINAL, that he'd be too upset.
There is a sense of quality control. You don't want a lot of people to get an early release to prevent the spamming of complaints. It's distracting and takes away from your project plan. If this was a real dev shop there'd be a bug tracking list and a handful of devs hacking away at their assigned tickets.
Overall, (both parties included, or and I guess the leaker too) it's a punk move. What are we? 12? (Sometimes I think we are! after all the bickering I read)
Meh... :|
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. Thanks for this thread. I hated reading the last one because of all the nonsense. A new rom will come and the fools will be foolish.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
kingrat said:
This forum is so crappy now..
everyone wants rewarded and begs for money
Master I thought was the worse...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let's not trash talk or name names... ok?
problem with forums like this
The problem with forums like this is they break out something like this:
10% 12-18
40% 19-26
40% 27-45
10% 46-60+ (where I fall into)
So, since age and maturity is the problem (or lack of maturity) there is no way to regulate that, not in an open forum....we are just left to self regulation........and as such, it will always be imperfect.
What is important is to be respectful and mature in the treatment (doing what they ask) of each other. The leaked rom from one friend to another is not really the core issue...........it is the public proclamation "Hey I got over on you" that demonstrates both the lack of respect and lack of maturity. This adolescent behavior (which the guilty one thinks is cute) damages our experience in this forum or in other forums. A Shame really.......
This forum gets ridiculous full of ungrateful people it really ruins development of great phones, people start to think they deserve something that was given out of good faith to help them hence original 2.2 leak
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Lets see if I can say this without sounding rude... Fok master, do the **** your self, a lot of his **** is off leaked stuff and others work...
he should be happy someone wanted his **** that bad...
By the way donating for a early release isn't a donation, thats a payment..... Never using his rom again, imma go stock and make the rom myself, you all could to its simple....
EDIT: Hell I remember when Master was trying to over run BIONIX lol Dude was all in their business... Trying to side help their ****. Man common Master, This is a punk move, for this You will never get a second look from me... Peace man, Just needed them donations/ Payments huh
Not allowing people to distribute his ROM is a violation of the GPL. He may ask, but he has no basis to. He built a ROM based on pre-released code and Open Source code and has no valid position to stop the same. Sure, he can get pissy if people do, that is certainly his right, but the moment he makes it available to anyone that person clearly has the right to distribute it unless it has actual proprietary software on it.
The person asking was within their rights
The person who gave it out was within their rights
Master getting pissed and stopping further development for people exercising their rights is completely within his rights.
Life goes on, shame, I was waiting for 2.1, time to move on.
kingrat said:
This forum is so crappy now..
everyone wants rewarded and begs for money
Master I thought was the worse...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've seen you in Master's thread, you've contributed nothing but disrespect and you're part of the reason he closed his thread.
FYI, Master isn't discontinuing development. He is choosing not to share with XDA. Anyone that is interested in his work can still find it on his forum.
Seems a lot of Devs are keeping their work on their own sites. From what I've seen on this site in the last few weeks, I don't blame them.
I think it's messed up for those that paid for his roms now to get no support.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
First of all thanks for making this thread OP. I want to get a few things out here as well.
Very immature on the part of everyone involved. Seriously grow up and get on with it.
This donation stuff is nothing more than payment and that is right. But the payment isn't so much for the software as it is the help in putting it together and getting it all to play nice. Sure you could piece it all together yourself if you had enough free time it isn't THAT hard. Or like me if your time is more valuable you can sling homeboy <INSERT NAME HERE> $10 and have him put it together for you. I value my time greatly and I lead a very busy life so I am very happy paying someone $10 if it even saves 30 minutes of my day. I am highly skilled and do computer security work for a living so it has nothing to do with knowledge or ability.
So lets make that clear. You are donating for their time not the actual software itself. Some of these guys spend a ton of time on their ROMs and if I can get that for a piddly $10-$25 donation then I say that is a deal. And on top of that he even offers personalized support when this ROM doesn't work.
I don't think the issue here is requiring donations because if they didn't nobody would donate so that is only fair. And it is more than reasonable for them to try to get some reward for time and effort invested. Especially if they have a website to support!
jnutz said:
First of all thanks for making this thread OP. I want to get a few things out here as well.
Very immature on the part of everyone involved. Seriously grow up and get on with it.
This donation stuff is nothing more than payment and that is right. But the payment isn't so much for the software as it is the help in putting it together and getting it all to play nice. Sure you could piece it all together yourself if you had enough free time it isn't THAT hard. Or like me if your time is more valuable you can sling homeboy <INSERT NAME HERE> $10 and have him put it together for you. I value my time greatly and I lead a very busy life so I am very happy paying someone $10 if it even saves 30 minutes of my day. I am highly skilled and do computer security work for a living so it has nothing to do with knowledge or ability.
So lets make that clear. You are donating for their time not the actual software itself. Some of these guys spend a ton of time on their ROMs and if I can get that for a piddly $10-$25 donation then I say that is a deal. And on top of that he even offers personalized support when this ROM doesn't work.
I don't think the issue here is requiring donations because if they didn't nobody would donate so that is only fair. And it is more than reasonable for them to try to get some reward for time and effort invested. Especially if they have a website to support!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I couldn't agree more.
This is becoming more and more common. Does it bother anybody else? I mean i dont lose sleep over it, but it kind of ruins the "community" feel and turns things into more of a business.
Donations are slowly turning into payments. This is precisely why i PERSONALLY never believed in the word donation in the development world, but lets not get into that debate.
I mean, if a dev/dev team is really good, im sure they get more than enough donations to fund their work, seeing as though im always seeing people on the forums talk about how theyll donate or how much they donated. I feel like whats happening is a dev/dev team starts out strong, and at first is just soaking up the notoriety amongst users, and understandably so. But as time goes, and their knowledge and popularity grows, they realize "hey, we could probably make some serious money off this" but then they realize that that just goes against the whole "doing it in your free time" or "doing what we love doing" concepts, so they insist on continuing to label it a "donation".
Let me be clear, I have absolutely no problem with a dev/dev team expecting money in order to grant access to something that is popular. Thats what a lot of governments are founded on, and these guys definitely deserve a little spending money for all of the smiles they put on peoples faces. I just dont like the abuse of the word "donation" that takes place. Why dont you just say "you have to pay for it"? Cause thats pretty much what is going down......
This isnt directed at anyone in particular, im simply curious to see how other people feel about it.
I feel the same way. Label it as payment/charge/etc and it will be good. Just dont use the word donation when only a donation gets the user access to an area of forums, kernels, roms, other, software. Its just not correct to do
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
It's incredibly silly. In many cases these people are charging for tweaking something that they didn't create and don't even have the rights to redistribute.
When you get right down to it, every ROM here that's built off of one of the leaked Froyo builds is in murky territory. Although parts of those leaks are GPL'd, there are tons of proprietary Samsung bits in there, and if Samsung felt like it they could slap everybody with a C&D on redistributing that stuff.
On the one hand, the people who distribute leaks (and tweaked ROMs based off of those leaks) for free are taking risks by doing so, and they're doing it to help the community. But on the other, you have people who take those leaks, apply their own tweaks to them, and then charge for the completed product. Those guys are basically profiting from the work that others took a risk in releasing to the public, which is ridiculous.
The best way to deal with it is to not simply not "donate" to people who pull such shenanigans.
JeremyNT said:
It's incredibly silly. In many cases these people are charging for tweaking something that they didn't create and don't even have the rights to redistribute.
When you get right down to it, every ROM here that's built off of one of the leaked Froyo builds is in murky territory. Although parts of those leaks are GPL'd, there are tons of proprietary Samsung bits in there, and if Samsung felt like it they could slap everybody with a C&D on redistributing that stuff.
On the one hand, the people who distribute leaks (and tweaked ROMs based off of those leaks) for free are taking risks by doing so, and they're doing it to help the community. But on the other, you have people who take those leaks, apply their own tweaks to them, and then charge for the completed product. Those guys are basically profiting from the work that others took a risk in releasing to the public, which is ridiculous.
The best way to deal with it is to not simply not "donate" to people who pull such shenanigans.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its very important that we dont mention names, to avoid flaming.....but i know exactly who you are talking about in particular....
The trend started with kingklick and everyone was all up in arms about it
But eventually the rest of the developers followed and now its OK for them and they accept it LOL hypocrites
This is another reason making my decision on NS much easier
Some real development will be underway i miss my N1 XDA support back in the day
Not that i dont appreciate what others have done here just most of it wasn't my cup of tea with exception of Eugene's work
But he left for a reasonable reason too much BS but his work is still freely available
It would be nice to hear a devs take on this but on the other hand this could just start a huge ordeal I understand what you guys are saying but I don't think this thread is going to help any development at all in fact it may even be counter productive the dev group is growing for the vibrant but I wouldn't say there are enough devs to start pissing people off and making them lose interest in xda all together if its not one thing its another nothing is free in this world eventually if you want something ahead of everyone else you gotta pony up the cash I went to a street fair once at the gate was a booth labeled donations they didn't deny me access when I refused to pay but I didn't enjoy the full access everyone else did when they received theyre wrist bands that got them free drinks your not paying to get in your paying for the cause and the work and the time it takes to create something that millions can enjoy ......i wouldn't get to butt hurt about it its the way of the world be it in day to day life forums or whatever else you think it applies to just my opinion we're all entitled to them I suppose
V5 custom vibrant
I take back allot of what i said apparently some are still releasing roms here
willsnews said:
It would be nice to hear a devs take on this but on the other hand this could just start a huge ordeal I understand what you guys are saying but I don't think this thread is going to help any development at all in fact it may even be counter productive the dev group is growing for the vibrant but I wouldn't say there are enough devs to start pissing people off and making them lose interest in xda all together if its not one thing its another nothing is free in this world
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In terms of my opinion, and what im trying to say, the paragraph in bold in the OP highlights my exact problem. I understand the concept and the need for devs to ask for money in whatever form, and i have absolutely no issue with that. But thats what they are, PAYMENTS. The only thing im questioning is why they insist on calling them donations. They are not donations when they are in the format of a transaction.
do·na·tion noun \dō-ˈnā-shən\
Definition of DONATION
: the act or an instance of donating: as a : the making of a gift especially to a charity or public institution b : a free contribution : gift
trans·ac·tion noun \tran-ˈzak-shən, tran(t)-ˈsak-\
Definition of TRANSACTION
1a : something transacted; especially : an exchange or transfer of goods, services, or funds <electronic transactions>
Theres just something about it that seems a bit unethical to me, almost like a bit of a marketing scam. "Donate" has a much friendlier, less threatening tone to it than "payment". Maybe theres a mindset in place that people will be more inclined to "donate" rather than "pay". Im just trying to figure out why they cant just call it like it is.
Regardless of how you may feel about it, theres no question that sometimes it feels like our "community" is faltering in favor of making money.
------------
In terms of the devs leaving XDA because of threads like this? i mean come on, we are talking about word definitions here...not insulting peoples families.....
Donation: ASK for CONTRIBUTIONS DURING development
Payment: REQUIRE COMPENSATION for COMPLETED product
I haven't ever seen a developer require payment for a complete product here on XDA. Some give early access to buggy ROMs and kernels, but that's it.
I don't. see anyone asking for a payment to get a full version of a rom. some gets it early when you donated but still the ones who didn't still gets the rom later. If that's how they want it to be then let it be.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Used to have "buy me a beer" links up at the most a couple of years ago. Seems there was more collaboration among devs like LucidRem who was super nice on G1 apps to SD. Was constantly being tweaked by seperate devs to get a better partition solution for example.
Don't blame me, blame my keyboard's autocorrection algorithm.
Any developer that does that is very clearly breaking the law. They could be very easily sued by anyone that cared.
Haha, even if that's true, which I don't think it is.....i think that would be taking things just a tad too far
Sent from my pocket rocket!
I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM WITH IT!!
I have been on with Android since Day 1. XDA and the developers who come here are the only reason I am so passionate about my phone and android. Without these 2 things a large part of my "hobby" would be severely hampered.
Developers do a tremendous amount for us. Can you imagine being on JI6 right now? I feel that they get barely anything in donations.... if this is a method for them to beta with a small group and reward those who support them/him, than I think they should take advanatage of that... and if it leads to developers earning a bit more than they would normally, awesome for them.
Cause you know what....
When developers are happy.... WE are all happy!!!
I mean come on, they release them to the public anyway.... is it okay for you to whine about not getting something sooner, that you had no part in creating/making.... what gives YOU the right???
PS, both R14 and Nero_Beta are very tasty... can't wait to get my hands on Axura 2.2 soon also.
maybe we should point out who the REAL developers are, and who are the wannabe's like people that take others work and just theme it.
Maybe just maybe then, these people that are rushing to hand over fists of money would donate to the people that actually put things out, and not the winzip blender wannabe's.
I "had" respect for some of these people until I first hand decompiled their rom to find out it wasn't there's at all. Adding a theme and transitions to Windows, does not make it mine.. how hard can that be to understand?
s15274n said:
I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM WITH IT!!I mean come on, they release them to the public anyway.... is it okay for you to whine about not getting something sooner, that you had no part in creating/making.... what gives YOU the right???.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well i really hope youre not referring to me......i have a good paying a job and if i really wanted to pay for a ROM i would, but i dont......check my signature, i AM still runnning JI6, i dont use Macnut or Obsidian (neither ever required donations). I am speaking purely based on observation, not personal experience.
I mean if i was stuck stuck with JI6 forever, i wouldnt be thatdisappointed, because i have my phone setup exactly how i want it. Im not a fan of leaked ROMs, never have been. So i wont be waiting up all night waiting for Nero to go public either.
Please dont confuse me for one of those crybabies who just HAS to get their greedy fingers on the newest ROM right away just to be with the "in-crowd"...thats not what im about
s15274n said:
if this is a method for them to beta with a small group and reward those who support them/him, than I think they should take advanatage of that... and if it leads to developers earning a bit more than they would normally, awesome for them
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
please dont misunderstand me, you have to read carefully what im trying to say....i have absolutely NO ISSUE with devs receiving money....none. they often deserve it. i just dont like the way the concept of "donating" is presented sometimes. The way you outlined it ^^ is a great way of wording the way it SHOULD be appraoched....unfortunately it isnt always approached that way, and THOSE are the instances im referring to in my OP
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_General_Public_License
This issue is that a custom ROM is built upon the work of thousands of other people that all licensed their work under the GPL because they wanted to it to be used that way. When someone takes their work and sells it, they are expressly misusing the work of others.
I think its fantastic that people are willing to put their time into developing ROMs, but at the same time it's very disrespectful and illegal to not follow the wishes of the people whose work the ROMs are built on. Ultimately, ROMs are very, very minor tweaks to what has been the result of almost twenty years and millions of man hours of work. If you want to be a part of that, that's great, but you have to play by the rules. After all, those rules are what made ROM development possible.
I can understand why they do it. Most people don't know how many hours go into just developing a theme let a long a full rom. So I understand them wanting to make some money for their time, but I also do agree with people who think they should not have a donation requirement to download, they should label it as a pay to download / theme or rom.
Here is an example of why I think devs do a required donation:
Here is the Nexus Theme I made (Did not ask for donations): http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=860198
To date this has had: 318 downloads
Amount of donations recieved: $0
Time Spent making it: 10+ Hrs
Here is the Frobuntu theme I made (Asked for Donations): http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=846285
To date this has had: 333 Downloads
Amount of donations recieved: $20
Time Spent Making it: 20+ hrs
So I can see why they do this. It makes a difference when you ask for the donations, but... again there should not be a required donation. That is called "selling" your rom/theme. They could do it the way I did the Frobuntu rom where I "Highly Suggested" a donation amount in big letters in the header of the post, but still gave it away to those who cannot pay.
Just my two cents. I would never flame or look down upon a dev for choosing to require a donation, that is their decision. I just choose not to do that myself.
No offense but most custom roms have a couple issues, needing to be fixed in the next release, meaning in a few days your gonna have to flash again, then the cycle continues, another bug so needing a new release... But the new release isn't faster, better or any cooler than the release before...lol
I'm on stock jk6 with my tweaks, my mods, and my setup, I was on customs for a bit, but all this donation crap has made me not wanting to try custom roms from anyone here, especially with all the drama :d
Needless to say I've never donated anything other than to xda itself..... I would never give my money to people just doing this for fun just like I do.... Donate to me then lol...
Anyways, id advise against donating to get a early release that ain't any better than the one before....lol
All I can say is suckeeeeers... Sorry but true, you have been hustled...
P.s. Anyone with a donate to me sign in their sig or whatever are completely retarded imo..... Lol
Hey Eugene said he wouldn't mind getting a vibrant if the community donated but he said he's scared of the problems that might come. Like people demanding updates and such. But if you changed the cm7 donation thread to Eugene and put what Eugene don't want to happen some might understand and obey his wishes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey Vibrant community.
Remember Eugene? That awesome guy who's helped make what our Vibrants are today. He's willing to develop for us again and bring us more of his awesome stuff. Maybe even an awesome, stable ICS. As you may have noticed, he's been helping around, but he's using his wife's phone. His wife doesn't like that too much. He's willing to take a Vibrant from the community if they're willing to give it.
Before you post any bull or a 'yes! awesome!' do know that Eugene in no way needs to give out ETAs or post daily, he has a life, just like everyone of us, he does this because he likes it, not because he has to.
If you guys are willing to support him, he's willing to support us.
What do you guys say?
Vibrant for Eugene! Let's go!
if you have nothing positive to say, or dont want to donate, please dont post here.
im a broke college freshman but im willing to donate $10 towards a device for CM crew.
cheers
Wasn't this fundraiser done before?
Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk
I don't care what they do with the money we donate. They can buy a device or pizza or beer or hookers, whatever they want.
I just want the Cyanogenmod team to know that the Vibrant community fully supports them and hopes that our device can stay in the CM family.
I'm willing to put in $20.
$10 towards a device for atinm too, but only if he states that he actually wants to continue work on it if we get him a device.
Did'nt he say he was sick of the vibrant?
beowolf said:
Did'nt he say he was sick of the vibrant?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup!
Stated that if we bought home one he wouldn't develop for it
Sent from my SGH-T959 using xda premium
+$20
--
Carlos
Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk
This is a waste of time you guy's. we have plenty of talented dev's to rely on one specific team. The longer everyone continues to feed into the man saying he is "Sick" and has "given up," the "Bigger" these men's head's grow. Some one will either port the latest cm9 once it is released for i9000 or we simply must move on. (it's called evolution) Samsung is the one to officially blame for there lack of device support. I refuse to have to bribe someone to keep their loyalty. I know there will be CM9 with or without the help of Hacksung. This wasn't meant to troll or offend.
i hope this keeps the wheels turning, but i doubt it will. the only reason i say that is because i find it extreme difficult to believe that the CM team (the largest, most popular, most skilled, most coveted Android development team) doesnt have enough money from donations to buy a cheap used vibrant on ebay. i also find it very hard to believe that none of them (or even a dev loosely associated with them) does not have T-Mobile.
IMO, i think that was atinm's polite way of saying fck the vibrant. im not faulting him in any way, im sure it was a calculated decision.
i just want people to think before giving their money away as a result of frustration/impatience.
good luck.
TopShelf10 said:
i hope this keeps the wheels turning, but i doubt it will. the only reason i say that is because i find it extreme difficult to believe that the CM team doesnt have enough money from donations to buy a cheap used vibrant on ebay. i also find it very hard to believe that none of them (or even a dev loosely associated with them) does not have T-Mobile.
IMO, i think that was atinm's polite way of saying fck the vibrant. im not faulting him in any way, im sure it was a calculated decision.
i just want people to think before giving their money away as a result of frustration/impatience.
good luck.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very well said broskii. +1
They call themselves team douche for a reason.
Sent from my SGH-T959
Whats the point of this? If CM7 is any indication, it will probably take about 4-5 months for a stable release even if they do support CM9 for the vibrant. By that time most of us who are on a two year plan for the vibrant is only a few months away from a new phone upgrade with the next release of android.
Chances are any money you donate will go to the next phone that are coming out to get them further and further away from the vibrant.
illego said:
Chances are any money you donate will go to the next phone that are coming out to get them further and further away from the vibrant.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
^^^^^^^THISSSSSSSSSS^^^^^^^
i am not against donating to devs in any way. however i AM against people blindly throwing their money around, when there is absolutely no indication that their hopes will be fulfilled.
sometimes devs make it clear that donations just go into one big pot and are considered charity, or a thank you. on the other hand, some devs setup serperate paypal accounts for donations to a specific need.
in this particular case, the dev has clearly stated that he has less than no intentions of pursuing further development on this device, yet people still want to throw money at him.
i understand the reasoning, but if your "donations" are being made with a specific need in mind, make sure the dev not only understands, but also accepts/agrees to this.
And that's why this was a proposition, not official. He has made up his mind, he will not support the Vibrant, no matter what. So.. I guess that settles it.
with that said though, really how much work would need to be done to port a sgs rom over to the vibrant, sure battery life wont be kick ass at first but most kernel such as glitch/sixstrings dev for either the cappy or the sgs and just tweak a few files and build it for the vibrant, probably wont have working gps but id be surprised if we didtn get some sort of kanged cm build.
you could always build the sgs cm rom with with tweaks to put in the vibrant specific libs, also keep in mind that the g1 lost support for cm but there are plenty of un official builds and they have to do a hell of a lot more to port a rom to that phone.
He said they would port it soon just stop there's no need for this
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
I think people might not completely understand why I support a fundraising effort.
I don't really care about any dev getting a device or anything like that. I just want to make sure that all the people who have worked hard to get CM7 working on the vibrant know how much we appreciate it. We hope that they will continue to support the device for the long term but that this is just a gift to say THANK YOU.
I feel we need something like this to deal with the trolls that have pissed off multiple vibrant devs. I see this as a fundraiser just to say "thank you and sorry about all the jerks".
I am pretty sure CyanogenMod can use any funds we donate to them. I personally intend to give a yearly donation to them anyways since they have made my android experience SO much better than stock. Since i am giving anyways i would rather do it as part of an overall fundraising drive with the Vibrant community than just as an individual.
I have no expectations that they will continue development for the Vibrant, i just think it is important that we show them how much we appreciate them.
deleted....
there starting to do most of there work with the sgs2 branch of phones, att, tmobil etc.....sorry