Database Users

ok...look...lets calm down

First I'm not a mediator mod or any of that, but people we are acting like children.
1. Why are u here?
The devs on this forum are taking personal time! We as community members are not ENTITLED to ROMS. They do this for the love of the platform, so respect that.
2. This is not the Sprint forum.
Again, this forum does not imply or state that EVERYTHING is going to work with whatever ROM u choose. So really, why ***** or hate? Really?
3. What can u add?
Nobody expects anyone to be the cdma hero "hero". Everyone should know they lane and stay in it. Report bugs or dev, its that simple
I don't have the highest post count and I may be out of line but I have been studying/learning here since it was questionable if there would be a sprint hero forum. Let's not **** it up by driving away the same folks that got us here. I know that from past comments this will probably get locked, but if we don't as a whole respect more what's going on we have a chance of loosing it.
Respect to all the devs on here and the work they do, for US!

+1,000,000 Agreed,it's sad when people can't even thank someone without it turning into as bunch of un-needed bull$#17.Just be positive people,some good things are happening,don't let these people ruin things.

I don't post much here anymore, because of some personal reasons with regards to this forum. I still lurk a lot, however, and I just don't see where all the straight-up hate and animosity these posts such as yours are mentioning. I tend to avoid the 80-page threads because they are mostly filled with junk, is it in there?
Perhaps I should check them out.
The hate and animosity and watering down of this subforum with too many useless posts is why I haven't released anything since December. I'm working on a new rom for myself, and I'm thinking less and less like I might want to actually release it here. Last thing I feel like dealing with are a bunch of whiny people who aren't happy with me or my work unless it makes their phone do what THEY want. Where's the reward for devs? Don't anyone even bother mentioning donations.

Support that!

dude props for this! good going. And I agree with you 1000%

its no crime to show thanks and respect to some one for their hard work. if deving was easy we would all be doing it.

obelisk79 said:
I don't post much here anymore, because of some personal reasons with regards to this forum. I still lurk a lot, however, and I just don't see where all the straight-up hate and animosity these posts such as yours are mentioning. I tend to avoid the 80-page threads because they are mostly filled with junk, is it in there?
Perhaps I should check them out.
The hate and animosity and watering down of this subforum with too many useless posts is why I haven't released anything since December. I'm working on a new rom for myself, and I'm thinking less and less like I might want to actually release it here. Last thing I feel like dealing with are a bunch of whiny people who aren't happy with me or my work unless it makes their phone do what THEY want. Where's the reward for devs? Don't anyone even bother mentioning donations.
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This is exactly why we should respect the devs... pretty soon all of them will be gone.

You beat me to it ... but I don't really care.
I think we just got too amped up with all the 2.1 excitement and started trying to outdo oneanother instead of working together. Once the official 2.1 comes out, I think we will see a lot more collaboration to make it as good as possible. In the mean time, always five credit where it is due, and don't worry about who did what first, because it only benefits everybody. That's why our great devs are here: to help create a better device, not to profit or hoard secrets. This is the first real open source project I have been a part of, and I get excited just thinking about what the future has in store for us. Let's make it a great one!

Can we just please stop with these types of threads.

The way I look at it is like a car.
You buy the car, and you COULD just leave it at that. Some people like to mod their car and optimize it for maximum performance. Many people do not know how to do this, so they need to take it some someone who does know how, and the mechanic for damn sure isnt going to do that *** for free. I think of our devs a mechanics, optimizing my phone for me because I have no idea how to develop to my phone. The difference here is that they are doing this **** for free. So what if they ask for a donation, bums on the street ask for "donations" for doing ***. We were going to get 2.1 for free one way or another at some point since we already had the car (Hero for you thick headed people), whether it be a whole 2 days after flipz released it to contributors, or when sprint/htc officially releases it at the rumored end of this month.
And be happy this isnt a car, because if it was not only would you HAVE to pay for the official update, but you would have to pay for the installation and optimization.
Taking a *** chill pill all those people who are too stingy to even donate 1 buck.

Don't make me say the f word and post an off color picture so this thread gets shut down
just playing mods. don't hurt me.

foxracr17 said:
the way i look at it is like a car.
You buy the car, and you could just leave it at that. Some people like to mod their car and optimize it for maximum performance. Many people do not know how to do this, so they need to take it some someone who does know how, and the mechanic for damn sure isnt going to do that **** for free. I think of our devs a mechanics, optimizing my phone for me because i have no idea how to develop to my phone. The difference here is that they are doing this **** for free. So what if they ask for a donation, bums on the street ask for "donations" for doing ****. We were going to get 2.1 for free one way or another at some point since we already had the car (hero for you thick headed people), whether it be a whole 2 days after flipz released it to contributors, or when sprint/htc officially releases it at the rumored end of this month.
And be happy this isnt a car, because if it was not only would you have to pay for the official update, but you would have to pay for the installation and optimization.
Taking a ****ing chill pill all those people who are too stingy to even donate 1 buck.
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this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! .

Tipharet said:
Can we just please stop with these types of threads.
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No kidding... I am pretty sick of hearing people explain to me why I should be grateful to the rom developers. Like saying "The devs on this forum are taking personal time!" is some enlightening way to look at it. Everyone knows that already. And it gets really old seeing people make threads like this in an effort to get brownie points around here. There are so many threads EXACTLY like this. You are pushing posts that actually have a use out of view for a lot of people.
Oh wait, I have a difference of opinion. Lets start another thread and label it disrespect to the development gods...

Thank you. And I mean that. Because of XDA and it's amazing devs, I have gotten more out of this phone than I ever imagined. I have never had a phone that could do so much and people here were always willing to help me with a problem. And that is wonderful. I am glad that I joined this forum. In fact, I look forward to checking it every day. lol I don't know a lot about Linux, Java, or coding, but I do however know a lot about photography. I am a professional. So, if anyone needs help that way, I am completely for helping...I mean, all of you have helped me...I'd like to return the favor.
-Ken

flexgrip said:
No kidding... I am pretty sick of hearing people explain to me why I should be grateful to the rom developers. Like saying "The devs on this forum are taking personal time!" is some enlightening way to look at it. Everyone knows that already. And it gets really old seeing people make threads like this in an effort to get brownie points around here. There are so many threads EXACTLY like this. You are pushing posts that actually have a use out of view for a lot of people.
Oh wait, I have a difference of opinion. Lets start another thread and label it disrespect to the development gods...
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Actually that wasn't my point at all. My point is threads like this do nothing but divert attention to them, it perpetuates the negativity. New users come in these threads and see this and "ask what I missed" then it gets started over and over again.
As soon as these threads die (yes I realize I bump when I reply) the drama will also follow. Donate, dont donate, dev, dont dev ( not really) but just treat each other like some one you would walk by on the street or have a conversation with while standing in a line.

Asking for your cake and eating it 2.
I dont post alot here as well due to personal issues here on the form (so many smarty pants people on here)
But if i see a rom that i like (or app) i give the dev his props and thank him for putting in hard work when he or she could of been doing something else not trying please us and make our phones better then the stock ones.
Not saying the next person have to do the same. But if i wasted 5hrs of my time. and your running around showing off with my work i would like some props.
This dont even have nothng to do with roms or dev so im sure its going to get closed down soon. You people are just wasting your time making these threads people going to do what they going to do.

It's true that these type of threads may seem senseless and get hijacked to negativity... but in the past, my experience is that when moderators and dev's get fed up enough the forum/site would become closed and open to invitation only type membership, i.e., PRIVATE ACCESS!
That scenario is both good and bad... "Good" if you're in the loop, but potentially "Bad" because you just might end up on the outside looking in with your nose pressed against the window! So PROPS it is...
I have come to XDA for a long time, joined only so I could post, and only recently began to do so. But, that said, it has been indispensable for the provision of knowledge and fixes for handsets that the manufacturers and or carriers are unable to do themselves... so again - PROPS it is... no reason to drag it down.
+++++1,000 thanks to the awesome work being done!
There are those who truly can never be pleased, yet, I think that ration is extremely small. So again, for something I would gladly pay for, but am not required to do, I offer the easiest thing, a gesture of THANKS!

Devs that quit: who's to blame?

The thought popped up in my head this morning. I remembered Eugene, the developer of the Macnut ROM, who no longer supported XDA. Then another dev, jellette, that quit for reasons I can't quite understand. Who's to blame for these developers quitting the scene, or only providing ROMs on other sites?
I'm a 16 year old high school student in San Francisco. I've been lurking the forums ever since I got my Vibrant and my friend directed me here. I'm not at all new to hacks like these, I've been participating in communities and actions like these since I was 12. I never found a reason to become closely connected within this community, though. It's not a small group, it's a much larger one, and I don't have any place to fit in. This is one of my first posts, and it's one that I feel I need to share with the community: my thoughts and beliefs on the whole situation about devs that no longer support XDA or flat out quit.
Let's cover some ground first:
These devs are not paid. They make these ROMs, custom kernels, and other mods in their spare time. The only money they make off these ROMs comes from donations, and some devs don't ask for donations anyway.
The users are not paying for this work. The users don't need to give feedback, however they are permitted and allowed to comment, criticize, or help the developers in any way.
The trade made here is obviously unfair: give nothing, get something. In many cases, get a great piece of work for your phone that will make it blazing fast and give it features and functionality unheard of to other users of the same phone. The devs are ok with this though, as they freely release their work without a price tag.
However, there are some things devs are not ok with. I can't speak for each and every single developer, but having once done development in my own time as well, I can say the one thing that really aggravates all developers, and all people even, is when your work goes unnoticed, or worse yet, gets disrespected. When some bombarding, ignorant user comes along and rips apart your hard work, what are you to do? "This ROM is utterly horrible, you should've put more work into it before releasing this paperweight." Maybe a bit over the top, but it gets the point across, and it's from this that a developer will most likely quit XDA as he sees fit.
So what can we say about the users, the freeloaders? Some decency is expected of all of us, basically. That's the lesson every user should know: respect those that give you what you get. They're not robots that work endlessly with nothing better to do. These are people, hard working men and women who spend hours on end making software for you. Give them your respect. Constructive criticism is nice, but never go so far as to demote them as a person. If you want their respect, you must give them respect. Make them feel welcome and they will continue to work for the entire community. It's simple, human nature.
As for developers, are they in the right place to quit under these grounds? There is no set ground for quitting. Each person sees fit at what time he or she should quit working, in any case: as a dev, as an employee, as anyone. People need to know their limits, and they do know their limits. As a free working developer, they have a lot more liberty in deciding when they want to stop working for the community. Even someone who didn't feel accused or demoted could leave for no reason and it wouldn't affect them as much as if they had left their full-time paying job. This is not a source of revenue, it's not a source of anything, in fact.
One thing devs should know, and this is coming straight from me, is that as someone who releases work on the forums, your name will be known, and it's wise that you build a public image for yourself. Quitting without reason, without a post to describe your feelings, to express concerns or thoughts on the community or whatever else you'd like to mention, does not help build a good public image. You are at liberty to do as you please, that's your free choice, but people will judge you based on your actions. Throwing yourself into a position as such, as a chef, comes with more than just giving out work. It comes with the comments users will give you. It's good to be able to politically conduct yourself, to create a good public image, which will ultimately help you avoid the negative comments the public makes.
In conclusion:
Users: Be respectful, have some common decency. This is for all of us, not just those who don't get it. It's a rule we should all know. Developers are humans, just like us. Respect them as such.
Developers/chefs: You are free to do what you like. Quit as you please, continue as you please, no one will stop you. It is, however, important to make a good public image. Not necessary, but important. Conduct yourself in a political manner, because us users see you as a strong force, not just as a person. Be ready to make a good public image.
I want to know your thoughts on this. I feel it's important that this ground is covered, and that we come to a general consensus on this. The more you know, the better off you are. The more we all know, the better off we will all be.

if only there were more users like you.
I'm tired of these little immature kids making these hardworking devs leave the forum.

xriderx66 said:
if only there were more users like you.
I'm tired of these little immature kids making these hardworking devs leave the forum.
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I second that...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

I also think that those developing roms need to understand that a lot of members are teenagers that do not what respect is. I myself am 30yrs old and I know that there are more members that are much younger and very childish. The devs need to not take it out on the entire forum. There are more members that appreciate their work than there are that do not.

I agree with you 100% in partucular regarding the users.
I came to this forum looking for support, trying to get the GPS working on my Vibrant.
Before I posted or did anything I read many threads and researched what it meant to use Odin and to root the phone and flash a rom and to recover from a problem before I even started anything. When I did I was fully aware that I and I alone, was responsible for anything that happened to my phone. I am continually amazed at how some people jump in, without a clue as to what they are doing, then seem to try to blame the developers for their problems. Then you have the group who complain about colors or a boot animation or a "missing" app on a rom they got for free. Simply amazing the entitlement people have over something that someone puts out there for them to try to improve their phone for free.
I can understand how the devs could get fed up with these sorts of actions. It can take a pretty thick skin to deal with all the stuff I see going on here.

It is like a preschool in here...just get used to it.
Life will go on, and someone will always be making roms--herds are pathetic, individuals are lost inside said herds. Keep your ears open and your mouth shut.
My $0.02

No one but the Dev can pull their ROMs and leave. We all take criticism in life. Some run, some brush it off.

ScooterG said:
No one but the Dev can pull their ROMs and leave. We all take criticism in life. Some run, some brush it off.
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I agree to a point, just if anyone runs off Master I'm forming a mob with pitchforks and torches...

I have plenty of respect for the few guys who make a few useful programs, and I don't think I've ever bashed a dev's work openly. But:
ScooterG said:
No one but the Dev can pull their ROMs and leave. We all take criticism in life. Some run, some brush it off.
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/Twerd.
Gotta give respect to receive, and some devs just think they are God's gift to Captain Taco. It's the Internet - no one gets respect on the 'tubes. Who gives a ****. The growing up really neds to happen on the part of most of these "I'm pouty b/c someone said something crass about some weekend work I did" "developers."
Drewstein said:
I agree to a point, just if anyone runs off Master I'm forming a mob with pitchforks and torches...
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McMaster should shrink his huge sig. It's a symptom of my point: get over your self importance. There are (good) forums on the 'Net that enforce a 5-line or 100px tall rule (vs. his 300px +).
Again, not bashing the work, just the attitude, as presented.
-bZj

Agree ...........great post clear concise and to the point. Funny, that a 16 year old can articulate the basics of good behavior that most in here do not practice. I do not blame a lot of the devs leaving, people rag on their work give nothing but complaints..... as if they have the skill (yeah right).People will eagerly wait 10 min in a Starbucks line, pay 5.00 for a coffee and never donate to the dev, XDA or anything........then complain when the custom rom they got for free doesn't work the WAY they like or want......... talk about selfish irony...........
Great post !! kevipapo1 (from a guy old enough to be your grandpa )

i agree with it. people need to remember that without dev. we would all be running stock

If master leaves I'll suicide.
I hope ur reading this, master

Unfortunately this is the interwebz and this is has its been in any android forum I've ventured through. As you are young, but yet seem to be fairly wise, I say to you "welcome to the world my friend!"

Very good post.
Most criticism is from lack of knowledge/education. People don't understand how difficult it is to develop a ROM. So they criticise what they don't understand because it inconveniences them.
However, I will disagree somewhat with developer criticism. Although, I don't agree with the way Master handled the situation, I can relate.
I believe it is very important for us to realize that ROM developers are not public figures. They have the freedom to stop and start as they please. Their passion is development, after all, not public relations.
Kudos OP. Excellent post!
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

I just want to say thanks to all Developers here at XDA. Without you and your ROMS or tweaks i wouldn't have the great phone i have today that i spent my hard earned money on, and to the immature people if something doesn't work right on a ROM insted of being an ASS!!! and saying how crappy it is say whats wrong and they will fix it they have for me.
Again thanks to all who have helped you don't even know me but you all are ready to help at anytime day or night.
GARY

I personally am 15 and have been in xda since 13
I appreciate the devs for all their work if it wasn't for them i would have killed myself with many frustrations of a stock vibrant
I hate that some are immature and that some get really irritating i understand that some are new but some just get on nerves.
I wish eugene came back because he was.one of the first devs here
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

This is a great post & I echo the op's sentiments. This forum and the devs that contribute to it are a phenomenal resource to all of us and deserve to be treated with respect as we all do. The real shame is that a 16 yr old realizes this more than most of us adults (some of which are in name only). I've been in these forums for only a short time and the amount of immaturity, cynacism and deconstructive criticism I have seen is truly apalling and frankly I'm suprised more haven't bailed. I guess the Golden Rule isn't important when you've got the anonymity of the internet.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App

Lethal_NFS said:
I also think that those developing roms need to understand that a lot of members are teenagers that do not what respect is. I myself am 30yrs old and I know that there are more members that are much younger and very childish. The devs need to not take it out on the entire forum. There are more members that appreciate their work than there are that do not.
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Just because someone is childish does NOT mean that they are a child.
I've seen many adults that throw a tantrum worse than a 5 year old and many 5 year olds who act like they're going on 30.
Likely their age has nothing to do with it & its just a reflection of their random genetics and/or crappy parenting.
down8 said:
McMaster should shrink his huge sig. It's a symptom of my point: get over your self importance. There are (good) forums on the 'Net that enforce a 5-line or 100px tall rule (vs. his 300px +).
Again, not bashing the work, just the attitude, as presented.
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If its an issue, then xda should make a max image/sig size (like you mentioned other sites do). That simple.
Most of his signature tells you to search & read the XDA rules before posting, not really bad advice & since he has to answer questions from many people who don't do either, I can't really blame him.
It would be a LOT more aesthetically pleasing if it were text only, but since XDA allows it, I don't really have a problem with it.
Most of the devs have developed a bit of an attitude (I've seen it from Eugene, SomBionix, Master, and a few others) because of the crap they have to deal with & XDA not enforcing their own rules (this is supposed to have changed after the town hall meeting).

i have been on xda since 2005, left came back etc etc, i do minor edits and coding here and there for myself because i dont have the time like these other people. but honestly most people need to get over themselves. this is a strong community and will live on without you. that said this community has made some people millionaires and others just brats who want the limelight. the idea behind this site is to take the software into our own hands. its us vs. corporations. if devs want to leave cool stfu about it and go but keep in mind that unless you have a contributed to the community dont complain about someones work. devs know what come when you start producing products. its the same that companys deal with. most leave because they get their feelings hurt. its not like people are stalking you and breaking your kneecaps because angry birds wouldnt play during their lunchbreak. ignore the negative and stay or wine and leave. but this place or any place wont change. the more successful you get the harder your skin must be

About me and why it all got under my skin.
James / jellette / Heathen
39 year old, married, father of 3
<Edited out line, too personal>
I look around and see Darky, Doc, Jim, Eugene, TW and everyone else doing Gingerbread clones - and they aren't called "Copy Cat" - but when I do it I am. That makes a guy pretty darn mad.
I set out to do the latest Rom 100% from scratch without drawing from the work of any existing Rom specifically because of my relationship with TW. The takers out there have no idea how much work goes into doing that.
Here was and continues to be the process with PepperKake.
1. Download the JL5 Rom from samfirmware.com
2. Odin to get a feel for the new firmware.
3. Rip the files from factoryfs.rfs
4. Release the first flashable Odexed recovery safe JL5 by 30 minutes
5. Deodex the apps and jars - on this build I was unsuccessful deodexing swype and I used krylon360's swype and credited him for that.
6. Download the Nexus S dump
7. Pull all of the images I needed out of framework-res.apk and SystemUi.apk and the original bootanimation.zip and the icon out of every matching Gingerbread app
8. Carefully build the theme, re-mod the Gingerbread Launcher and create the faux crt shutdown sequence.
9. Rip the gps files from the Nexus S dump including permissions for gps and maps and restructure JL5 to call these files
10. Replace with 3E recovery, ensure the sdcard mounts, etc..
11. Flash and fix 219 times until it is 99% bug free and ready for an Alpha release.
As you can see, this is not a weekend cooked rom as put earlier in the thread.
I update my roms usually once a day until it is complete, I fulfill requests for kernel flash packs for the rom, etc..
I did get pretty angry and pulled my roms - I later replaced the most recent rom. I also set up my website as a backup, which is quickly becoming my primary release source. I will stay around xda though like it or not.
On those who have followed me to the new site in support: Thank you.
Finally, a very short word on TW.
I have nothing but respect for these guys. I learned everything from them.
And that is my word on this.

What is with all the FROYO or ELSE crap? Chill!

RELAX. I've seen so many 'i've had it, i want to swim in Froyo goodness' that i want to puke.
Let me start by saying that i've been in this community for a Looong time and even ran my own kitchen website at one time. I have had over a dozen smartphones and love upgrades.
With that all out there, I can honestly say that my fascinate is perhaps the only phone i've owned (I have an intercept too) that i don't tweak much. I currently run DJ05 and with the blackish storm theme along with some hacks to allow me to save off to my SD card and GPS fixes.
I install a new ROM (crap kernal, slapkernal, rampage) and themes on the intercept. I did the same for winmo 5 and 6. But the Fascinate, it rocks! Have others here had the pleasure of playing with the famed Galaxy Epic? Our 3G is nearly as fast as their 4G and they $10 a month for that battery draining beast. Verizon is Waaay better than Sprint, ATT and Tmobile put together. Reception is the bomb. The EPic/Vibrant/Captivate soft buttons suck. You need to press them 4 or 5 times to get it to take.
Look, I all for upgrading, but Froyo doesn't buy me any sort of happiness at this point. I really don't give a squat whether it comes out or not. I don't even pine for Gingerbread. For what? We don't have a video camera on the front, so the best features are moot for us.
The reality is that Froyo and Gingerbread are just performance tweaks. I have it on my Intercept, woohooo (sarcasm). It will make a ****ty phone into a reasonable phone, but it won't make a great phone any better. Do you have slowdowns on the Fascinate? I'm running Asphalt 5 and Spiderman from the Galaxy Tab on the FAscinate without nearly a hint of lag. Oh of course, we have the same hardware, the best hardware currently out on the market. Until the ATrix/optimus comes to the states.
I love this site, but lately it's gotten full of these frustrated posts about a product little know nothing about.
Here's an analogy, if you're driving a 250mph Mercedes AMG, do you care if Mercedes says it's coming out with a new one with an extra 10hp?

orateam said:
I love this site, but lately it's gotten full of these frustrated posts about a product little know nothing about.
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I completely agree. If I may share and I mean absolutely no disrespect whatsoever, but you do realize that you have just contributed to exactly that.
Again I mean no harm but in short just don't reply to them. Just my thoughts.

I wanna take a second and defend all those individuals who keep asking questions about Froyo and updates (me having been one of them).
While I think some of the questions are good and intelligent, a lot have been repetitive and can be answered by searching. If that is the case, why can't the "super-intelligent" forum members just ignore them and don't answer negatively? The threads take on a life of their own when member after member comes in to post links to other places and tell the poster that they are annoying and stupid.

Bwangster12 said:
I wanna take a second and defend all those individuals who keep asking questions about Froyo and updates (me having been one of them).
While I think some of the questions are good and intelligent, a lot have been repetitive and can be answered by searching. If that is the case, why can't the "super-intelligent" forum members just ignore them and don't answer negatively? The threads take on a life of their own when member after member comes in to post links to other places and tell the poster that they are annoying and stupid.
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BTW I accidentally thanked you.
Seriously though, can you imagine trying to follow the latest development going on while several new guys who keep spamming with "WHEREZ THE FROYOZ YO." It's not easy. It's frustrating. I know I come across as arrogant and elitist, but this comes from dealing with people asking the same question over and over and over again. It's really not that the members here are trying to be harsh.
Having tried to help several users with their issues when new ROMs/development comes out, it's not easy to have to deal with everyone's issues while having to sort through the FROYO threads.
Also if you read the sticky, the moderator posted... STOP POSTING WHERE IS THE FROYO THREADS...
If you can't even read that... I'm not saying that they deserve a flaming, but it's going to happen. This forum has seen countless froyo threads. Search froyo in the Samsung Fascinate section of this forum and you'll see just how many...

Bwangster12 said:
If that is the case, why can't the "super-intelligent" forum members just ignore them and don't answer negatively? The threads take on a life of their own when member after member comes in to post links to other places and tell the poster that they are annoying and stupid.
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Because this site belongs to the "super-intelligent" ones. And keeping a development site free and clear of non-development type threads will keep the "super-intelligent" happy. But gone are the days when users would join and lurk and self-educate themselves and would be aware of the fact that this is a development site for developers and not a place to parrot the latest engaget article about 2.2 on a completely different device.
I myself first came to xda and lurked for 4 months and then I joined in October of 2008 and I kept lurking and reading and reading and google searching and more reading. The first post I ever made was in April of 2009 and it was answering a question someone had. And that's because I identified the fact that this a development site for developers to create and share their hard work. This is not an end-user hacking site. And this is NOT an OH NO I GOT THIS PHONE YESTERDAY AND I DID A BUNCH A CRAP TO MY $500 DEVICE WITHOUT PROPERLY UNDERSTANDING WHAT I WAS EXACTLY DOING AND NOW IT'S STUCK ON THE SAMSUNG LOGO, HELP ME site.
And that is why the "super-intelligent" might be a little annoyed that their little development site has been overrun by people that show little to no respect and actually think that their opinions and parroted news stories actually matter. Or just blatantly create a help me thread without even spending 5 minutes of searching with google to actually mmmm I don't know, but help themselves.
Mom always told me "you made that mess. So now you are gonna clean up that mess"
good day.

+1 chopper and racer...
longtime Lurker and reader myself and it makes me cringe when I see someone with a ton of posts and says "how do I fix (some random problem) without ADB cuz I don't know how to use it"
The actual name of this site is "XDA Developers" I know how to look up engadget on the web when I want to know the latest rumors or news. =)
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App

I agree wholeheartedly, I lurk this forum and occasionally lurk IRC mainly because I'm interested. I have nothing useful to add 99.5% of the time and therefore don't try. Posting this reply is, ironically enough, useless in and of itself and I shall punish myself later for switching from lurker to troll this night.
That said, MY reason for lurking about on all things Froyo/Gingerbread for my phone is that I'm very interested in AOSP-based ROMs for it, and 2.2/2.3 are the OS revisions on which the devs are actively pursuing this accomplishment. While I am a software developer by trade (and I'd like to think a damn good one), I have NOTHING I can contribute to these efforts. I hate Java, I don't know enough about hacking hardware to make functional drivers without proper documentation, hell, I've never even *installed* Eclipse. Basically I am as useless as anyone else off the street would be out here. The difference seems to be that I KNOW THAT. I can't do these things, I don't want to take the time to learn how to do these things, and as a result I have no right to ***** and moan that these things haven't been done (yet). Instead, I sit in awe as others do these things I cannot and wait patiently for the day when I can benefit from someone else's hard work for a change ... and I'm happy to do so. I actually enjoy watching other, most likely younger, developers go through the process of creating something really cool armed with nothing but their own wit and persistence. The end result of their efforts will be something I not only desire for my own use, but will be something I could use to jump-start my own entry into this world should I change my mind and want to actively pursue such a thing.
My phone works great already, thanks to the people here. It runs Android 2.1. It does every single thing I've wanted it to do thus far, with these people's help. Yes, it has some annoyances that in my case would be resolved by having access to a truly stock AOSP-based system, and of course Froyo/Gingerbread is what I'd prefer over Eclair, but I can wait. I will wait. I will continue to donate an admittedly trivial amount of my hard earned money to the developers actively pursuing the end result I'm looking for that I'm not willing to work towards on my own.
I went from Troll to full-on Preacher here ... I can live with that I just hope that the devs here can see that there are people out there that both appreciate and admire them for what they do and hope they can turn a blind eye to the entitled jerks that continue to want something for nothing every day.
End: post-turned-uncalled-for-rant.

djp952 said:
I agree wholeheartedly, I lurk this forum and occasionally lurk IRC mainly because I'm interested. I have nothing useful to add 99.5% of the time and therefore don't try. Posting this reply is, ironically enough, useless in and of itself and I shall punish myself later for switching from lurker to troll this night...
End: post-turned-uncalled-for-rant.
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Trust me, i hated opening this thread for that same reason. But this is not a "Trash Samsung, I need Froyo" thread. It's the opposite. It's a "I love Samsung for building a badass phone and don't need Froyo" thread.
Here's a response i read from the tmobile forum about their newly coveted Froyo.
" if you want the new froyo, don't bother
i just downloaded it, and found out i wasted an hour on it.
firstly, its laggy... more than eclair.
secondly, it has some things that verify update.zip so you have to use methods that you usally wouldn't use, and flashing another rom is hard because CWM doesn't work."
-GPS got worse for me
-I get the boot up sound even with System Volume all the way down. I don't get any sound for shut down though. Also get a vibrate after 'Goodbye' screen goes away (I don't know if that is a pro or con).
-I can't do a quick reboot anymore.
-The colors seem a little duller to me.
-Avatar doesn't play.
-Stock keyboard doesn't work
-Apps in Market are not stored
Pay attention, it's likely we are getting those same issues, just adpated to our flash camera.

orateam said:
Trust me, i hated opening this thread for that same reason. But this is not a "Trash Samsung, I need Froyo" thread. It's the opposite. It's a "I love Samsung for building a badass phone and don't need Froyo" thread.
Here's a response i read from the tmobile forum about their newly coveted Froyo.
" if you want the new froyo, don't bother
i just downloaded it, and found out i wasted an hour on it.
firstly, its laggy... more than eclair.
secondly, it has some things that verify update.zip so you have to use methods that you usally wouldn't use, and flashing another rom is hard because CWM doesn't work."
-GPS got worse for me
-I get the boot up sound even with System Volume all the way down. I don't get any sound for shut down though. Also get a vibrate after 'Goodbye' screen goes away (I don't know if that is a pro or con).
-I can't do a quick reboot anymore.
-The colors seem a little duller to me.
-Avatar doesn't play.
-Stock keyboard doesn't work
-Apps in Market are not stored
Pay attention, it's likely we are getting those same issues, just adpated to our flash camera.
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Click to collapse
Why post something like that when it's clear that this guy had a fluke update experience? And to say we will have the same issues is sort of ridiculous. Sorry. I never had one problem updating to 2.2 on my og droid as well as my incredible. Obviously there will be a very small portion of people that have a problem with it as this guy did.
I understand the point of this thread is to stop all of the "Where is froyo?" threads, but to start saying we don't want or need 2.2 is sort of silly. Am I happy with 2.1 and how it runs on this phone? You bet. Do I think 2.2 will only improve this phone and take advantage of its potential even more? For sure. It'll come when it comes, but let's not downtalk it in the meantime.
e: Also, to the OP, why don't the little performance tweaks matter? What about the fact that 2.2 should help improve battery life which, in my opinion, this phone definitely needs? And the 250mph and 10hp analogy is really far off from what this is. It's more like a mercedes getting an engine tuneup as well as a variety of other small upgrades to enhance the overall experience of the car. Even if it's not revolutionary as some people believe (and no, I know it's not as I've gone through the update to 2.2 on a couple devices now), why not be excited if it enhances the experience overall?
Like I said before, I agree people should chill with all of the posts/topics about froyo along with all of their nagging. However, there's no reason to talk down about 2.2, either.

still lurking

I blame the blogs, they made XDA celebrity status to the otherwise noob forum patrons....

mexiken said:
I blame the blogs, they made XDA celebrity status to the otherwise noob forum patrons....
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I blame engadget.

Keep this forum clean. Go dump all this crap at droidforums.net instead!

Bwangster12 said:
I wanna take a second and defend all those individuals who keep asking questions about Froyo and updates (me having been one of them).
While I think some of the questions are good and intelligent, a lot have been repetitive and can be answered by searching. If that is the case, why can't the "super-intelligent" forum members just ignore them and don't answer negatively? The threads take on a life of their own when member after member comes in to post links to other places and tell the poster that they are annoying and stupid.
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Thanks for people like you. I posted something in development about froyo. To me out was a legit development question. Since I did not word it correctly I been flamed for days even after I apologized. I mean its almost like being bait in a fish tank. What kind of taste in the mouth does this give someone new like me. The people that flamed do not know what my potential might be for contributions to this site. I know the moderators are mad that people are sometimes posting in the wrong forum, but that is always going to happen. Not one "real" developer flamed me nor did any moderator. The people that think they are comedians are the real problem in forums like this, not the people with real questions our concerns. Sorry for venting, but some people need to grow up
Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk

Here's a tissue neo4uo...you're welcome!

OP it's hilarious you created another FROYO thread to protest the creation of FROYO threads.
Way to go with killing off these threads!

dricacho said:
Here's a tissue neo4uo...you're welcome!
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Thanks
Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk

How to make this community better :)

What is happening to this community?
What is with all the complaining ALL the time? This community is falling apart and we are all responsible for that. It seems all anyone ever does is complain about EVERY little tiny thing... We actually have it pretty good. Most of the Epic users will be on stock ROM's for the life of their phones. We have the opportunity to use, create and share something much better. The developers here at XDA are top notch and clearly do a better job then both Sprint and Samsung seem to be capable of...and yet we still find things to complain about and people to criticize. Why is that??
Speaking of the developers here, they put a HUGE amount of time and sometimes money (hosting ect) into providing all of us something truly useful and a big step up from what we would otherwise be stuck with. The attitude of "entitlement" needs to shift to something more like being "grateful" for what is provide here, FREE of charge.
Sure some developers have an off XDA website but so what. If it doesn't violate the rules then WHO CARES. Speaking for myself ONLY, I have very good reasons for redirecting (and I do believe I meet the requirements) traffic to my blog and they don't revolve around money. If you don't like the "inconvenience" of being redirected then don't use my ROM's. I can't please everyone..no matter how hard I may try. The way I personally view it is if I can find the time in my life to put this stuff together for anyone that wants to use it then you should be able to find the extra few minutes it takes click the link and follow it to my blog. That is the only thing I ask for all the time I freely give to this.
Quite frankly, we as the members of the XDA community need to reevaluate things. The developers DONATE their time (and some have precious little of it) and energy to HELP all of you... This whole "entitled" attitude and the "God complexes" some people have developed is a bit disturbing. I won't speak for anyone but myself but in my opinion, the sheer amount of time that goes into these releases completely eclipses the few minutes it takes to redirect to another site for a link (again as long as it doesn't violate the rules). Instead of complaining about EVERYTHING be GRATEFUL your not stuck on a stock ROM....
Many people can't even be bothered to click the Thanks button or read the directions.. I personally like helping you all out if my limited knowledge can be useful but I'm starting to become to frustrated to care anymore and I do really try to stay positive. All of this drama revolves around a phone....a phone people. There are WAY bigger things going on around you right now to get this worked up about a phone..... If you need some perspective on life please feel free to read my blog.
We can do better... I know we are all capable of better... When crap threads get started don't dignify them by commenting, just move past it. Report it if you want and more on... We should all take some pride in all the accomplishments this community achieved.
For my part, I will continue to help, learn and contribute to this community while spreading Autism Awareness..... What will you do?

Amen brother!

Gotta agree with you 100%. I came from another forum and a WinMo phone, and the community was much more supportive and friendly. The only reason I stay is because of a few excellent developers here. Not sure why XDA is getting so unpleasant, but we could use a little more tolerance here.
(Hope that doesn't get me banned)

Well said. Its all free why complain. I am not a developer but I have tried every rom on here and it seems to me most of the roms have a little bit of work from all the devs......so why the bickering. I also have to imagine most devs do this as kind of a hobby, why else do it there is almost nothing to be gained other than the challenge of improving on something that a manufacturer didn't get quite right (not baashing sammy every phone has its own issues or xda probably wouldn't be so popular).
That being said I just started using midnight, nice rom man. But besides that I started reading your blog about a month ago, it really makes me step back and take a look at things differently. I don't post much on this site cuz I have little to actually contribute but your right there are bigger things than a rom to get worked up over.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA Premium App

I think you and all the devs do an awesome job personally. Honestly any problem I've ever had has been solved just by searching for literally less then 5 minutes. I hardly need to ask questions because the devs and testers are so quick to answer any question. I absolutely LOVE how my phone runs and works.
Any negative threads I just...ignore. No point in them really.
So ya THANKS to you and all the devs.

I know when i was on my tp2 and flashing roms even tho how much a pos that phone was compared to this amazing phone we have now and the awesome roms we have
i have been happy and not complaining about anything on my epic.
If people dont like samsung then go buy something else i personally been fed up with htc hardware..
As for redirecting to sites, i have no problem doing that a all and i like reading your blog @ptfdmedic i always goto your site if im looking for a flashable zip or news, even tho i dont use your rom
i appreciate all your hard work and your autism awareness.
This community is for people who want to experiment with your phone and make it better, so if you happen to have an issue dont complain instead search read instructions and dont be lazy and ***** at samsung software glitches and what not considering our amazing developers here usually have some fixes within a few hours of the bug report.
AMAZING
Thanks to all the developers
For making my epic truly epic and better then any phone out atm.

Agreed!!
As for me not much i can do but give sexual favors....

The issues described reflect a larger societal issue. We cannot change people, so the best tools are forum moderators and users setting a good example.

iSaint said:
As for me not much i can do but give sexual favors....
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u say this after you take your so called "Toothpaste" ad out of your signature. lmao

I agree with you pftmedic. Thanks for that speech. I hope.more.people will read it and realize what you said. Why get worked up cause you have to.make 2 extra clicks to download a rom for FREE!! I also wanted to say that I.love reading your blogs Rob and my prayers are with you and your family. I really enjoyed the story about the man at the grocery store. That was very touching and you had me emotional. I know your goal is to try to get autism awareness out there so people can understand it. I don't know anyone that has autism so I never really knew about it. I just wanted to let u know that you opened up my eyes to autism and I.live reading your stories. Thanks for being such an inspiration to us when we are feeling overwhelmed with something. I will continue to pray for you and your family and God bless your little angels.
Sent From My Evo Killer!

iSaint said:
Agreed!!
As for me not much i can do but give sexual favors....
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Click to collapse
...comedic relief.....

Perhaps sometimes people need a place to vent and work out their stress. I know, do it elsewhere, not here......

Thank you for saying what a lot of us have been thinking.

Its always been this unpleasant with the exception of a few brief periods.. Its just the nature of the Epic community.

stir fry a lot said:
Its always been this unpleasant with the exception of a few brief periods.. Its just the nature of the Epic community.
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Click to collapse
I agree but that doesn't mean we have to continue making the same mistakes.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. So if we want better then we need to change things up a bit.

ptfdmedic said:
I agree but that doesn't mean we have to continue making the same mistakes.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. So if we want better then we need to change things up a bit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well said my friend
Sent From My Epic Bonsai Tree

Thanks, it is appreciated. I agree with the complaints thing. It's part of the reason I don't post too often. Except to thank.

Yea i was "joking"

Keepin it Constructive
Thanks buddy - well said! Hope this connects with the right folks.

Well said ptfdmedic, I agree that there are many people who feel entitled here. Maybe I come across that way without feeling like I do but I try my best not to. I don't hit the thanks button much but I am fairly new here and I am not used to it. As for redirecting to your site, I actually like being redirected there, I read 50 pages of your blog the other night and it was eyeopening. My father works in special-ed and the kids he works with are at Eliot's level, it was interesting to read just how further the continuum goes.

[Request] Bootloader and non-devs

To people that troll the forum... shut up if you arent helping with dev...
Especially dont be rude and drive them away... They are our only hope until moto releases an unlock bootloader - if ever
P.S I know this isnt dev related... But I hope the post can be here for a bit so people can see this.
Link below... CellZealot pointed out we arent very warm to people just trying to help.... Lets not be like that....
http://www.mydroidworld.com/forums/android-hacks/6511-moto-atrix-4g.html#post58112

Hopefully, "Recognized Developer" status will help with this, since it will allow said developers to partially police their own threads (yay the ability to close your own thread until you're ready to say more!). But that's still several weeks away.

Sogarth said:
Hopefully, "Recognized Developer" status will help with this, since it will allow said developers to partially police their own threads (yay the ability to close your own thread until you're ready to say more!). But that's still several weeks away.
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Click to collapse
+1. Can't come quickly enough

It really does astound me the amount if hatred and misinformation being spread around about this device, and a lot of it comes from people who don't even own one, or used it for a day and returned it. Very sad indeed. I agree with Sogarth, though

+1 So many people just spew out things not fully understanding, or make statements because they made changes to their device that they don't fully understand. My viewpoint is if you are going to make a change to your device, you should know what the change you are making is and the consequences of such. If you modify your software by modding files know that updates released by the manufacturer will not work on your device unless you put it back to factory.
Quite a few people here state moto is intentionally bricking their device because they can't install the update over their mods. It's problematic because it breeds misinformation as well as hatred/flamewars on the boards
Ririal said:
It really does astound me the amount if hatred and misinformation being spread around about this device, and a lot of it comes from people who don't even own one, or used it for a day and returned it. Very sad indeed. I agree with Sogarth, though
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

+1. Without Dev's, this device is just another "one year wonder" (if even in my use). We need to attract Devs, not push them away.

naturefreak85 said:
+1 So many people just spew out things not fully understanding, or make statements because they made changes to their device that they don't fully understand. My viewpoint is if you are going to make a change to your device, you should know what the change you are making is and the consequences of such. If you modify your software by modding files know that updates released by the manufacturer will not work on your device unless you put it back to factory.
Quite a few people here state moto is intentionally bricking their device because they can't install the update over their mods. It's problematic because it breeds misinformation as well as hatred/flamewars on the boards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For some reason this reminded me of an article on Engadget that was posted a while back:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/23/editorial-the-dark-side-of-android-hacking/
I'm always amazed at how many people manage to fudge up their phones and don't take responsibility for it, or try and blame the developer. I think there was a flare up last night because an Android blog posted something in a similar vein stating CyanogenMod was "ruining" a bunch of phones.
Going back to the Nexus One, I've always been amazed by how people talk to the devs here. They have much thicker skin than I do, thankfully. Haha.

Gr8Danes said:
+1. Without Dev's, this device is just another "one year wonder" (if even in my use). We need to attract Devs, not push them away.
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Click to collapse
Sigh... We really need devs badly for the atrix

That was one of the things I remembered reading a while back and it stuck with me, I remembered from my time working for Apple how people would **** up their phones jailbreaking it because they thought it would always be "one click and done". My girlfriend has an iPhone and wants to jailbreak it so she can do "cool things" with it. But she has no idea what the cool things she can do are. Nor the consequences that can happen should she mindlessly update her phone. Even I am sometimes skeptical of hacking my device until I know I can revert back.
As was said in Spiderman "With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility"
In the end what people have to remember is that as Devs software gets cracked not because everyone asks for it to be done, but it's Because they can. Back in the day whenever someone would ask "Why are you bothering with this" the response was always "Why? Because I can." Users of the mods have to remember this and know that things don't always "Just work" you have to know what you are doing. Part of the reason I'm teaching myself bit by bit how to mod so I can take part properly in the Dev Community.
KaLiBLeeK said:
For some reason this reminded me of an article on Engadget that was posted a while back:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/23/editorial-the-dark-side-of-android-hacking/
I'm always amazed at how many people manage to fudge up their phones and don't take responsibility for it, or try and blame the developer. I think there was a flare up last night because an Android blog posted something in a similar vein stating CyanogenMod was "ruining" a bunch of phones.
Going back to the Nexus One, I've always been amazed by how people talk to the devs here. They have much thicker skin than I do, thankfully. Haha.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

naturefreak85 said:
In the end what people have to remember is that as Devs software gets cracked not because everyone asks for it to be done, but it's Because they can. Back in the day whenever someone would ask "Why are you bothering with this" the response was always "Why? Because I can." Users of the mods have to remember this and know that things don't always "Just work" you have to know what you are doing. Part of the reason I'm teaching myself bit by bit how to mod so I can take part properly in the Dev Community.
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Click to collapse
I remember that DEVS are doing this because they can, but now we have also some stimulus for the brave one(s) who'd crack the security issues that are preventing from flashing new kernels etc.
I also agree that if somebody is doing something with device like rooting, hacking Webtop or anything else should know what are they doing. I think that it'd be much more 'secure' - less number of bricked phones. But there are a lot of people that just want oneclick for everything, because the dont want/cant go into the command line, flashing or extraordinary instructions - its too complicated for them.

Moving this to general as not android development