Related
I really don't want this to come across wrong, but I just have to say it.
Developers, I appreciate all your hard work. I understand this is all beta/test/etc. I understand it is free of cost, even to those who did donate to one dev or another. You do it because you want to, not because you have to.
But please, for the love of all that's good - keep an updated list of Known Issues!
It sucks having to read 50 pages of posts to try to figure out if a particular release is reliable or not, to find out if there's a key feature broken or buggy. What makes it worse is you can't tell when reading these threads which users are on which release, because many still post issues after they've been resolved. Others post things that aren't really "issues" but user error.
You know what your issues are, you read the threads and you fix the issues. But trying to find a decent rom to flash is very, very difficult when your OP says "No known problems" and the thread that follows show that to be very untrue. It generates a lot of extra posts with people posting things you already know about, and it generates a lot of bad will when someone flashes something only to find that there are a number of game breaking issues.
All it takes is to update a post, say #2, in your thread, with KNOWN ISSUES. Once you confirm a bug, whether you intend to fix it on your next release or not, add it to that thread. It helps you, as a dev keep track of the bug, and it helps potential downloaders know what bugs have been confirmed and make an educated decision as to whether they want to install your release.
Hiding known issues is something I don't think anyone does intentionally, but it feels that way sometimes. It feels like devs are in a popularity contest, and any admission of flaws in their particular ROM is a weakness. Well, to tell the truth, I and many others are sick of installing something that was CLAIMED to be working perfectly, only to have glaring problems that have been there for many versions.
For a civil and productive development community. Please. Be honest with your known issues. It will go a long way in building trust with the people who you're providing ROMs to, and will mean fewer posts for YOU to wade through of users reporting known issues, without having read 500 posts first.
I have a hard time believing that most devs actively hide them. Most of the time it's probably just a bit of laziness. But, yes, it would be helpful when comparing roms if the descriptions had a well-maintained list of active bugs.
Since the developers here are NOT getting paid (NO your $20 donation is not sh*t for the time it takes to make one of these roms), yes WE will have to bear the brunt of testing these roms out and letting them know what bugs if any are in them
The other issue is the people flashing these roms, coming from Eugene's to Whiskey to the ASOP roms may generate some ghosts in the software that the developers cannot duplicate themselves. I know that when I went with the TW 2.2 roms I had plenty of issues, more issues than I have had even when I was stock. Odining back to stock and reflashing the 4.2 TW fixed ALL my problems. Dont know what caused it but since I have flashed a couple of roms prior to that (no problems), I will assume there were some ghosts in my system. This is an example that unless a TW team member is holding MY phone and working on it, they may not be able to duplicate
They don't care to list them. It's beneath some of them.
Maybe AirBus should list "midair exploding engines" as a known issue too...
kponti said:
Since the developers here are NOT getting paid (NO your $20 donation is not sh*t for the time it takes to make one of these roms), yes WE will have to bear the brunt of testing these roms out and letting them know what bugs if any are in them
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1. Hell, at work I run a $100,000.00+ software suite and even that company won't do what the OP suggests!
If you have a problem with them stop using their roms go back to stock and see how much better theirs is even with a few bugs, not one of you has any right to complain. They do damn good work for free with some donations that do not come close to what they should be paid for it but they do not whine at all.
The problem I find is the "spammy" and useless comments average and pretentious users make which is both hard for the developer and the end user to read the threads. A dev releases a ROM and there is a guaranteed "Oh I can't wait to flash this" comment that will pop up. And there are some issues that are minor and are sometimes not related to the release that are posted and some pretentious loser who extends his ego by trying to make simple matters complicated. This forum didn't much of this problem before and I could quickly flash ROMs easily since I could clearly grasp the status on the ROM project.
I wish they would start a new thread with new releases. It's a pain to try to read through a 500 page thread, and you comments about this or that, and you have no idea which version the person is talking about. I gave up on custom roms and just using the leaked tmo 2.2, thanks for that Eugene
kponti said:
Since the developers here are NOT getting paid (NO your $20 donation is not sh*t for the time it takes to make one of these roms), yes WE will have to bear the brunt of testing these roms out and letting them know what bugs if any are in them
The other issue is the people flashing these roms, coming from Eugene's to Whiskey to the ASOP roms may generate some ghosts in the software that the developers cannot duplicate themselves. I know that when I went with the TW 2.2 roms I had plenty of issues, more issues than I have had even when I was stock. Odining back to stock and reflashing the 4.2 TW fixed ALL my problems. Dont know what caused it but since I have flashed a couple of roms prior to that (no problems), I will assume there were some ghosts in my system. This is an example that unless a TW team member is holding MY phone and working on it, they may not be able to duplicate
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Click to collapse
A $20 donation is not worth the risk of bricking a $550 phone just because they got "lazy" and didn't notify donators/downloaders of [a] potentially show-stopping issue.
Posted a new Thread in Dev section for the purpose of reporting issues. So if you have an issue please shoot it to me and I will post it in that thread.
Update: Here is the link for the WIKI page.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/wiki/index.php?title=Samsung_Galaxy_S_SGH-T959#ROMs
swehes said:
Posted a new Thread in Dev section for the purpose of reporting issues. So if you have an issue please shoot it to me and I will post it in that thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are in a heap of trouble, a lot of people don't read, and you are gonna get 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 repeats of the same issue.
"OMG! MY SD CAR DONES"T MOUNT< HELP ME!11!!111"
chui101 said:
I have a hard time believing that most devs actively hide them. Most of the time it's probably just a bit of laziness. But, yes, it would be helpful when comparing roms if the descriptions had a well-maintained list of active bugs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The issue here is really that a forum is not the ideal place to manage software releases. A list of bugs emerges from community testing, but there's nowhere to "post" that list of issues, or attach it to a specific release. Since there's no way for the community to add such documentation, it falls on the ROM builder, who probably has other priorities.
This kind of project could be well served by using a real software project management software solution, such as say google code, which has an issue tracker and other useful features. But XDA does already give us a better tool than the forum - the XDA wiki!
I wish people would use the XDA wiki more extensively. This would be a good place to keep updated documentation such as this, without requiring the OP to keep a forum post updated with the latest findings. All the OP needs to do is link to the wiki page, and other people can help maintain it.
OK. Looking into Google Code.
(Update) So looking into the Google Code. What Licensing agreement are the ROMs under? Is it GPL v2 or v3 or another license?
swehes said:
OK. Looking into Google Code.
(Update) So looking into the Google Code. What Licensing agreement are the ROMs under? Is it GPL v2 or v3 or another license?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Depends on the project. The Linux kernel is GPLv2, so any kernels fall under that license. AOSP as a whole uses both GPL and apache code.
The issue with ROMs is that unless they're AOSP derived (like cyanogenmod) they often include binaries for which the license situation is murky at best, so google code isn't really an ideal fit for a "ROM" that's only ever released as a binary.
Really I was throwing google code out there as a well known example, there are tons of other ways to track issues. There are dedicated issue tracking systems such as trac, bugzilla, etc, but they require hosting. Most of the freely available hosted services require that you're running an open source project, which isn't necessarily true for the ROMs here.
IMO a serious project could very well benefit from such tools, but just using an XDA wiki page which community members can freely update is a great first step.
So looked into the Wiki for the Vibrant and have updated some information. Let me know what you guys think. Is this the way to go?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/wiki/index.php?title=Samsung_Galaxy_S_SGH-T959#ROMs
swehes said:
So looked into the Wiki for the Vibrant and have updated some information. Let me know what you guys think. Is this the way to go?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/wiki/index.php?title=Samsung_Galaxy_S_SGH-T959#ROMs
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Click to collapse
Not to be the "Spelling Nazi", and I am not even sure if you can change it, but it is "Kernel" not "Kernal". Also, the Dev on Team Whiskey is Sombionix, not Symbionix.
Otherwise, that looks like a great idea, and possible way of tracking things!
EDIT - I guess I could go ahead and make those tweaks, with it being a wiki and all couldn't I....
EDIT EDIT - Fixed it.
Stargazer3777 said:
Not to be the "Spelling Nazi", and I am not even sure if you can change it, but it is "Kernel" not "Kernal". Also, the Dev on Team Whiskey is Sombionix, not Symbionix.
Otherwise, that looks like a great idea, and possible way of tracking things!
EDIT - I guess I could go ahead and make those tweaks, with it being a wiki and all couldn't I....
EDIT EDIT - Fixed it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks. On both accounts.
Maybe this should be a post to Microsoft
To quote "there are known, unknowns and unknown, knowns and and even sometimes unknown,unknowns............but.........
Developers ----develop they do not become a bookkeeper of their development.........that is coordinating work...........good luck getting any developer in ANY Specialty to do that............. reporting bugs........
---Maybe this should be a post to Microsoft---
N8ter said:
A $20 donation is not worth the risk of bricking a $550 phone just because they got "lazy" and didn't notify donators/downloaders of [a] potentially show-stopping issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have yet to see a REAL (completely dead) "bricked" vibrant from flashing a released Rom alone. I have seen a lot of user error cause boot loops or "soft-bricks" & HWL phones become unflashable because the end user didn't take the time to research though. As far as devs being "lazy" I dont really see that when the developer is coming here for us to tell him what else we find wrong. They are coding, you flash, you report back with a logcat. This is how development is made to my understanding. If ppl are to lazy to JUST do this then why shouldn't the developer discount long winded post or something they are not experiencing? If they know there is a bug its in the OP.
If you guys can change the interwebz & how 500 post per update are made completely useless please feel free to do so....
swehes said:
So looked into the Wiki for the Vibrant and have updated some information. Let me know what you guys think. Is this the way to go?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/wiki/index.php?title=Samsung_Galaxy_S_SGH-T959#ROMs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it's a pretty awesome start for sure
As a matter of personal taste, I think having an individual wiki page per ROM (with the known issues and other detailed info) might be nice, although I'm not sure what the policy on new pages is with the XDA wiki.
Speaking from professional experience, the most challenging aspect of any documentation system is always convincing people to use it. It's great to compile the information, but unless ROM builders and devs post a link to the wiki in the forum threads nobody will ever see it. Having good, community based documentation is a benefit to everybody though, so hopefully people will recognize the utility of it and encourage its growth!
Ok, I am confused. I am new to the whole Acer Iconia A500 and such and so far, I am happy with my refurbished purchase having installed Taboonay 2.2. However, I keep seeing this name of Thor around the forums here and having this individual bashed for things. I have some questions...
1. Why is his releases not allowed to be linked to XDA?
2. Why is it that I see in posts and comments that his ROM is considered Warez? or better yet, what makes his ROM to be considered Warez?
If those can be answered, I should have a better understanding about this fellow.
ThanX in advance!
There are a bunch of threads about this. Do a little research and u could find an explanation better than I can give u.
Sent from my HTC EVO 3D using Tapatalk
XaviorPenguin said:
Ok, I am confused. I am new to the whole Acer Iconia A500 and such and so far, I am happy with my refurbished purchase having installed Taboonay 2.2. However, I keep seeing this name of Thor around the forums here and having this individual bashed for things. I have some questions...
1. Why is his releases not allowed to be linked to XDA?
2. Why is it that I see in posts and comments that his ROM is considered Warez? or better yet, what makes his ROM to be considered Warez?
If those can be answered, I should have a better understanding about this fellow.
ThanX in advance!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Short story is he's in direct violation of the GPL (he refuses to publish his source code for his kernel).
If you've got nothing to hide, then why bother hiding it?!?
I'm running his rom and it is the best rom I have used! But everyone has a right to their opinion. Also has anyone kindly asked him to? Or why he won't? Anyways, I still like his work.
~Sent from my Droid SuperCharge~
gmfeny said:
There are a bunch of threads about this. Do a little research and u could find an explanation better than I can give u.
Sent from my HTC EVO 3D using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would rather be flamed with the links, if you are going to comment.
I searched and even asked a mod. I am glad OP posted this one. Now I know.
I have been running Thor's ROM and Kernal and have had ZERO count them ZERO issues. Everything runs smooth. Battery life is awesome. no complaints and as far as I can tell, I have no need to update. Maybe if ICS comes but this is pretty damn perfect.
It's a pretty simple matter from what I understand.
Everything on XDA must be GPL. This means you must share the source code for all of the work that you do. This makes sense because your constantly building on others efforts, and should give credit where it is do. Also being built on linux means the very foundations of android are GPL.
In this case, Thor did not publish the source code to his kernel. For that reason, it (and his roms which use it) cannot be put on XDA.
It's considered 'warez' because he is breaking the license agreement of the kernel (the GPL). Any software which violates a license agreement is illegal, and thus, warez.
Why he did not give the source for his kernel, I do not know. It is not, however, an issue of whether his software performs well or not. For this reason, many choose to run his roms anyways.
The interesting thing is, cwm uses thor's kernel and they haven't banned it since we have no alternative at this time. I did see someone in the development section is working on a gpl compliant recovery. The nice thing is, it is very easy to visit thor's site and download what you need.
>DARKMAN< said:
I'm running his rom and it is the best rom I have used! But everyone has a right to their opinion. Also has anyone kindly asked him to? Or why he won't? Anyways, I still like his work.
~Sent from my Droid SuperCharge~
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Click to collapse
Turboboxer said:
I would rather be flamed with the links, if you are going to comment.
I searched and even asked a mod. I am glad OP posted this one. Now I know.
I have been running Thor's ROM and Kernal and have had ZERO count them ZERO issues. Everything runs smooth. Battery life is awesome. no complaints and as far as I can tell, I have no need to update. Maybe if ICS comes but this is pretty damn perfect.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No one has said he does bad work.
Do you know what information your OS is sending out, possibly to Thor himself?
Quick answer....h3ll no!
Why? Because he refuses to release his source code which is in direct violation of the GPL which everyone else (at least here at XDA does).
And that's the only reason I won't allow his work to touch my tab.
The alternate CWM posted in the dev section is good enough to flash with, which is all I need (never do backups), so at least I know what my ROM is doing, and I KNOW you both CAN'T say the same about your tabs. Not flaming, just pointing out something most people aren't aware of.
Icy Faux FTW!
I liked Thor's ROM but why load a ROM with parts not working? Both auto brightness and hardware screen lock don't work. When other ROMs have it working and seem to run just as well (again, Honeylicious FTW), why bother with it? I do, however, run his Kernel.
My 2 cents....
kjy2010 said:
No one has said he does bad work.
Do you know what information your OS is sending out, possibly to Thor himself?
Quick answer....h3ll no!
Why? Because he refuses to release his source code which is in direct violation of the GPL which everyone else (at least here at XDA does).
And that's the only reason I won't allow his work to touch my tab.
The alternate CWM posted in the dev section is good enough to flash with, which is all I need (never do backups), so at least I know what my ROM is doing, and I KNOW you both CAN'T say the same about your tabs. Not flaming, just pointing out something most people aren't aware of.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Paranoid much?
Sent from my A500
>DARKMAN< said:
Paranoid much?
Sent from my A500
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you've got nothing to hide, why hide it j/o?
dman918 said:
Icy Faux FTW!
I liked Thor's ROM but why load a ROM with parts not working? Both auto brightness and hardware screen lock don't work. When other ROMs have it working and seem to run just as well (again, Honeylicious FTW), why bother with it? I do, however, run his Kernel.
My 2 cents....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I gave up those useless features for hide status bar and Thor parts add ons. Not a fan of Honeylicious, no offense kjy.
Sent from my A500
Rock on! Glad to know exactly why. I did do some research and tried to find a definite answer but couldn't find an exact one as bluntly as my questions were.
So, to all who answered my questions, THANK YOU! I appreciate it.
Mad props to all of y'all for definitely being smarter than I.
mswirski said:
Everything on XDA must be GPL. This means you must share the source code for all of the work that you do. This makes sense because your constantly building on others efforts, and should give credit where it is do. Also being built on linux means the very foundations of android are GPL.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This part is not completely true.
Only code that is licensed under the GPL, such as kernel code, must be shared. Code from other licenses like Apache (which covers the userspace of Android), are not required to be shared and so don't have to be.
So basically, Thor doesn't have to release source for his ROM's, but he DOES for his kernel. He's been asked to several times but flatly refuses and the only reason ever give is that people steal his work, which is nonesense as it's not his work to start with.
Reading this thread is making me paranoid.
I have installed several different ROMs on my new A500. I keep going back to Thor's 14.2 ROM. For what I want out of my tablet, it is my favorite. He does great work.
Any reason to think Thor is trustworthy or untrustworthy? I am considering abandoning the Thor 14.2 ROM because blatantly violating the GPL agreement just isn't cool and having concerns about what he may or may not be doing in the background kinda sucks.
There is no real reason to suspect Thor is doing anything untoward in his ROM. It's possible he is, but it's equally possible he isn't. The main objection is the blatant disregard he shows to the thousands of developers who's work he is stealing.
FloatingFatMan said:
The main objection is the blatant disregard he shows to the thousands of developers whose work he is stealing.
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Click to collapse
No, sorry, I have nothing better to contribute right now, I just thought Floatie needs some attention.
---------- Post added at 04:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:21 PM ----------
blancocar said:
Any reason to think Thor is trustworthy or untrustworthy?
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Click to collapse
Well, ignoring GPL license and just ripping off the work of others does show some questionable personality traits, but other than that I don't see any reason to suspect he'd actually be spying on people. Of course, there's no saying he won't start doing it sometime in the future if he's offered enough "incentive" to do so.
blancocar said:
Reading this thread is making me paranoid.
I have installed several different ROMs on my new A500. I keep going back to Thor's 14.2 ROM. For what I want out of my tablet, it is my favorite. He does great work.
Any reason to think Thor is trustworthy or untrustworthy? I am considering abandoning the Thor 14.2 ROM because blatantly violating the GPL agreement just isn't cool and having concerns about what he may or may not be doing in the background kinda sucks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem is that without him publishing his source code, you'll never know what he's doing.
Not saying he is, or isn't doing anything in the background. Thanks to the GPL most of the major phone carriers were caught using Carrier IQ (Google that if you'd like a real scare), and without Thor's source code, you'll never know without him publishing his source.
WereCatf said:
No, sorry, I have nothing better to contribute right now, I just thought Floatie needs some attention.
---------- Post added at 04:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:21 PM ----------
Well, ignoring GPL license and just ripping off the work of others does show some questionable personality traits, but other than that I don't see any reason to suspect he'd actually be spying on people. Of course, there's no saying he won't start doing it sometime in the future if he's offered enough "incentive" to do so.
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Click to collapse
+999,999,999
Floatie.. HOW CUTE
+++++++1
You gotta love xda...
he is not the only cutie on here . Just saying..
I think thor is only hiding the fact that the work is not really his... But feels Bigger then others .. so he hides ... but who knows for sure..
I do know that devs come up with some awesome feature to put in their roms, this happened on the sgs2 forum with the Rarity rom. The dev shared his idea and the next thing was 1 or 2 new roms incorporating what he wanted to do but hadn't finished yet.
I know this is done in the spirit of sharing and to benefit the community but when things you are working hard to do are essentially copied and take away your moment of triumph, the fact you can say "I did this first", then it does get frustrating.... We lost a kickass dev over that...
Thor maybe up to no good or he may have a few things he wants to improve on before releasing to the community, only time will tell, and you may never know....
Hey every body,
I'm new user of the Acer Iconia A500, coming from DHD
As most people here I think, I wanted to try new ROMs before choosing the most stable and fast one ...
So I tried first to find ICS ROMs, and I found 2 threads:
Thor2002ro ROM : http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1356489
Blazingwolf ROM : http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1353252
But those 2 threads are closed ... And when reading these forums, I don't really understand why they re closed ...
Can someone explain me why these 2 projects are closed? Because both of them are continuing their work on other forums ...
Thanks !
something about gpl compliance. the thor rom is good (it would be my daily if the camera worked) but it cant be linked to here for gpl reasons. we can discuss it though.
nifterific said:
something about gpl compliance. the thor rom is good (it would be my daily if the camera worked) but it cant be linked to here for gpl reasons. we can discuss it though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for answer ...
XDA is GPL, no?
so is it because thor doesn't want to use same license ?
That's a pity for everyone: he's ROM don't hava as much visibility (and it's already pretty good) and XDA doesn't have good ICS ROM for A500 yet ... I can't see anyone that is not loosing with this situation :-/
bengal92 said:
Thanks for answer ...
XDA is GPL, no?
so is it because thor doesn't want to use same license ?
That's a pity for everyone: he's ROM don't hava as much visibility (and it's already pretty good) and XDA doesn't have good ICS ROM for A500 yet ... I can't see anyone that is not loosing with this situation :-/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
as far as i know, its a legal issue. i'm no lawyer, this is just what i've gathered over a 2 year period of using android devices. android is open source, therefore its illegal to not post your source code when you make something from it. thor wont release his code, therefore thor's work isnt allowed to be posted here.
sure, everyone could benefit once his rom is100% functional, but I can also argue that everyone can benefit from having microsoft office on their PC as well that doesnt mean I can post a torrent for office cracks.
nifterific said:
as far as i know, its a legal issue. i'm no lawyer, this is just what i've gathered over a 2 year period of using android devices. android is open source, therefore its illegal to not post your source code when you make something from it. thor wont release his code, therefore thor's work isnt allowed to be posted here.
sure, everyone could benefit once his rom is100% functional, but I can also argue that everyone can benefit from having microsoft office on their PC as well that doesnt mean I can post a torrent for office cracks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks a lot for these explanations ...
Maybe I'll change ROM then ... ^^
nifterific said:
as far as i know, its a legal issue. i'm no lawyer, this is just what i've gathered over a 2 year period of using android devices. android is open source, therefore its illegal to not post your source code when you make something from it. thor wont release his code, therefore thor's work isnt allowed to be posted here.
sure, everyone could benefit once his rom is100% functional, but I can also argue that everyone can benefit from having microsoft office on their PC as well that doesnt mean I can post a torrent for office cracks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
bengal92 said:
Thanks a lot for these explanations ...
Maybe I'll change ROM then ... ^^
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android itself is licensed under the Apache 2 license agreement, which allows people to make modification to source without sharing. But the kernel itself is a Linux kernel, which is covered under the GPL v2. Any release of the binaries must either include the source with the binaries or a link has to be publicly posted to the source repository and the source repository must be made publicly available without restrictions. My understanding is they have not complied with that section, so their roms violate the GPL.
So long as they don't post the link, they can't link the rom on XDA, as this will violate XDA's terms of use.
tkirton said:
Android itself is licensed under the Apache 2 license agreement, which allows people to make modification to source without sharing. But the kernel itself is a Linux kernel, which is covered under the GPL v2. Any release of the binaries must either include the source with the binaries or a link has to be publicly posted to the source repository and the source repository must be made publicly available without restrictions. My understanding is they have not complied with that section, so their roms violate the GPL.
So long as they don't post the link, they can't link the rom on XDA, as this will violate XDA's terms of use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well ... Hope Thor2002ro will read this post then ...
Because if that's only about publishing a ICS kernel compliant with Iconia A500, that's really sad ...
Thanks a lot for your explanations !
bengal92 said:
Well ... Hope Thor2002ro will read this post then ...
Because if that's only about publishing a ICS kernel compliant with Iconia A500, that's really sad ...
Thanks a lot for your explanations !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thor is well aware of his non-compliance and doesn't really care. It's a damn shame really as he's a good dev, but XDA have to protect themselves from possible legal action so Thor's ROM's aren't allowed.
FloatingFatMan said:
Thor is well aware of his non-compliance and doesn't really care. It's a damn shame really as he's a good dev, but XDA have to protect themselves from possible legal action so Thor's ROM's aren't allowed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK. So it's pointless to try to convince him
=> tonight, I reflash my tab ....
I'll try Taboonay. Someone has other ROM to suggest?
thanks everyone for your quick answer
Thread contains ongoing discussion about Phoenix kernel 'issue' (followup of the discussion in the original dev thread).
If you are interested, read on - public discussion about development ethics, rights, and many more aspects of life (how it started and who should be credited for that, who should build altar instead of kernel and what to worship in this miserable life) with the Phoenix kernel thread and some respected developers as a main characters in the play.
If not, just move forward.
Read the last few pages of that thread and come up with your own conclusions, the debates in that thread were going on in various threads between the devs.
Hopefully they all come to an agreement and resolve their issues.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
nikzDHD said:
Read the last few pages of that thread and come up with your own conclusions, the debates in that thread were going on in various threads between the devs.
Hopefully they all come to an agreement and resolve their issues.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was reading it, but it is ridiculous to close the thread.
Mods should warn the participants and delete thier posts, not close the discusion for the common people.
I do not saw nowhere warning for Entropy ot GK for insulting (word steal is quite inappropriate)
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
I have utmost respect for the devs for all their work but the way this was handled was not right. Instead of bashing each other in public this should of been done off the respective threads instead of throwing punches left right and centre.
Hopefully they all sort it out and get back to what matters most and that's developing, what they excel at.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
There are certain values XDA holds on to and rules and ethics which developers should abide to:
- false advertising;
1) knzo during the void kernel days 1-2 months ago falsely portrayed features in his kernel as being unique and his implementation of them as first compared to other kernels and verbally downplaying them.
2) the conservative governor story which I won't bother explaining; read the thread
3) the wheatley governor, the day he released it, putting it even in the thread title and selling it to people, while this was a port from a phone with a completely different architecture and he did nothing other than copy it and sell it as a valuable addition, while the real benefits are unclear.
- lying, defending his lies;
1) for the above points, he repeatedly and consistently tried to defend his lies with more lies, never posting any clear or sensible or factual explanation, just more nonsense.
2) he deleted his GitHub of the kernel, he never delivered any explanation for this other than "he doesn't like it" which is a load of horse ****, which also coincidentally happened after the first round of complaints one month ago.
3) he is refusing to post his full or updated sources even after several requests.
- ethics;
1) while it's not XDA's business to judge paid applications, if financial gain is made based on false advertising as it is in this case, then it's fraud and against XDA rules.
2) based on all of the above, it's not how a XDA developer should behave, read the title of your browser window.
And now a personal message to all of you people of the opinion that such discussions belong to PM and behind-the-scenes: NO. This is supposed to be a development forum where technical discussions are being held and not a platform for posting your stuff and not expecting to be held accountable, part of such discussions are rebuttals and criticism. This is exactly why it's done in public as the public should be informed of it, as this is the point of this whole website, isn't it?
AndreiLux said:
There are certain values XDA holds on to and rules and ethics which developers should abide to:
- false advertising;
1) knzo during the void kernel days 1-2 months ago falsely portrayed features in his kernel as being unique and his implementation of them as first compared to other kernels and verbally downplaying them.
2) the conservative governor story which I won't bother explaining; read the thread
3) the wheatley governor, the day he released it, putting it even in the thread title and selling it to people, while this was a port from a phone with a completely different architecture and he did nothing other than copy it and sell it as a valuable addition, while the real benefits are unclear.
- lying, defending his lies;
1) for the above points, he repeatedly and consistently tried to defend his lies with more lies, never posting any clear or sensible or factual explanation, just more nonsense.
2) he deleted his GitHub of the kernel, he never delivered any explanation for this other than "he doesn't like it" which is a load of horse ****, which also coincidentally happened after the first round of complaints one month ago.
3) he is refusing to post his full or updated sources even after several requests.
- ethics;
1) while it's not XDA's business to judge paid applications, if financial gain is made based on false advertising as it is in this case, then it's fraud and against XDA rules.
2) based on all of the above, it's not how a XDA developer should behave, read the title of your browser window.
And now a personal message to all of you people of the opinion that such discussions belong to PM and behind-the-scenes: NO. This is supposed to be a development forum where technical discussions are being held and not a platform for posting your stuff and not expecting to be held accountable, part of such discussions are rebuttals and criticism. This is exactly why it's done in public as the public should be informed of it, as this is the point of this whole website, isn't it?
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Fair point, but why wasn't the thread closed much earlier than? If this was the case why was it allowed to continue?
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
nikzDHD said:
Fair point, but why wasn't the thread closed much earlier than? If this was the case why was it allowed to continue?
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Moderators have a life too? Not all moderators are developers, and not all of them have the time to follow the discussion. And nobody reported it.
AndreiLux said:
Moderators have a life too? Not all moderators are developers, and not all of them have the time to follow the discussion. And nobody reported it.
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This.
Unless we are aware of something, nobody knows it's happening...
Anyone thinking we sit watching the site intently is wrong. There's a system to be followed, and it's been followed, investigated, and acted upon.
nikzDHD said:
Fair point, but why wasn't the thread closed much earlier than? If this was the case why was it allowed to continue?
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Click to collapse
Because it wasn't "on the radar", but came onto the radar, was investigated, and action has been taken.
war was not started by knzo! and he said multiple times to pm him and not flood or spam the tread !
AndreiLux said:
There are certain values XDA holds on to and rules and ethics which developers should abide to:
- false advertising;
1) knzo during the void kernel days 1-2 months ago falsely portrayed features in his kernel as being unique and his implementation of them as first compared to other kernels and verbally downplaying them.
2) the conservative governor story which I won't bother explaining; read the thread
3) the wheatley governor, the day he released it, putting it even in the thread title and selling it to people, while this was a port from a phone with a completely different architecture and he did nothing other than copy it and sell it as a valuable addition, while the real benefits are unclear.
- lying, defending his lies;
1) for the above points, he repeatedly and consistently tried to defend his lies with more lies, never posting any clear or sensible or factual explanation, just more nonsense.
2) he deleted his GitHub of the kernel, he never delivered any explanation for this other than "he doesn't like it" which is a load of horse ****, which also coincidentally happened after the first round of complaints one month ago.
3) he is refusing to post his full or updated sources even after several requests.
- ethics;
1) while it's not XDA's business to judge paid applications, if financial gain is made based on false advertising as it is in this case, then it's fraud and against XDA rules.
2) based on all of the above, it's not how a XDA developer should behave, read the title of your browser window.
And now a personal message to all of you people of the opinion that such discussions belong to PM and behind-the-scenes: NO. This is supposed to be a development forum where technical discussions are being held and not a platform for posting your stuff and not expecting to be held accountable, part of such discussions are rebuttals and criticism. This is exactly why it's done in public as the public should be informed of it, as this is the point of this whole website, isn't it?
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Click to collapse
I was about to post an explanation, but there is honestly no point, as the above post pretty much sums everything up.
You're installing this stuff on your phone, there's a reason things should be open and transparent. Would you install something from someone answering questions deceptively, or trying to mislead you?
nikzDHD said:
Fair point, but why wasn't the thread closed much earlier than? If this was the case why was it allowed to continue?
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
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Click to collapse
You have to decide if you dislike that it was closed, or dislike that it was closed too late, it seems you are just looking for trouble. It's like asking why was someone allowed to steal before they got caught. Well, if the moderators had no proof and didn't know something was happening, then the thread was closed when they found out.
Portugal lost a good dev
eskostar said:
You have to decide if you dislike that it was closed, or dislike that it was closed too late, it seems you are just looking for trouble. It's like asking why was someone allowed to steal before they got caught. Well, if the moderators had no proof and didn't know something was happening, then the thread was closed when they found out.
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I'm not looking for trouble mate, I was just asking a general question. First time I've seen something like this as it was spread over multiple threads.
I feel bad for those that have paid for the app, now what happens if knzo doesn't update again, fair enough it's the end users choice whether to purchase or not but won't we get users now complaining about this as well?
Andrei - Excellent post. You and I have had clear differences of opinion in the past, and those differences got heated in the Android OS thread - but because it was public and we were both able to collect more data, the entire community wound up ahead with a greater and more accurate understanding of the issue.
I've stayed off of the subject of Wheatley to avoid muddying the specific issues of the Lionheart discussion (as while knzo was irresponsible in how Wheatley was ported - he made no false claims regarding it that I know of) - however I believe it was irresponsible to position it as a "premium" feature when it is in an experimental state. Wheatley will NOT work as the original designer (Ezekeel) intended on any currently released I9100 or I777 kernel.
See https://github.com/Entropy512/linux.../master/arch/arm/mach-s5pv310/cpuidle.c#L1308
Wheatley targets entry into the deepest possible idle state, and makes its decisions based on time in that state. The problem is, on some CPUs, the "deepest" idle state is actually a lump of multiple idle states that are tracked as one.
So if the cpuidle governor requests LPA, and the s5pv310_check_operation() checks return true - the cpuidle will use AFTR instead, which saves less power. However, whether AFTR or LPA is hit - it's all tracked as LPA. This reduces the power savings gained by hitting a deeper idle state, which is something Wheatley's design is highly dependent on.
Whether Wheatley provides a benefit is highly dependent on a variety of aspects of CPU design: Static leakage current, voltage differential between highest and lowest supported clock speeds, how much of that static leakage current the idle state eliminates, among other things. On OMAP4 it seems to be providing a benefit - but I'm fairly certain we have a wider voltage swing from minimum to maximum frequency than OMAP4.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1431105 has some good technical discussion that includes Wheatley.
The basis of much of Ezekeel's work is linked here at the top of the page.
If you read Section 6 of that - you'll see why I'm fairly certain enabling 100 MHz on our devices is pointless. I've never seen it save power, and in some cases I've seen it consume more power.
eskostar said:
You have to decide if you dislike that it was closed, or dislike that it was closed too late, it seems you are just looking for trouble. It's like asking why was someone allowed to steal before they got caught. Well, if the moderators had no proof and didn't know something was happening, then the thread was closed when they found out.
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Click to collapse
Yep, we're damned if we don't close it, and damned if we do...
It's not fun, I don't enjoy doing this, but it needed to be done.
One and only post: I've been in XDA for some time now, many projects and only now this has happened to me. I feel like I've been a target of a witch hunt and I'm not the only one to think so.
I never lied, deceived or hid anything. Apparently I was "prosecuted" for something I said regarding Lionheart when I meant LionheartX which is the default governor in Phoenix since first version.
I was called a liar and I've shown them proof I wasn't. Yet, I still got my thread closed. XDA credibility only goes this far to me. I now understand why many are migrating over to RootzWiki for example.
Anyway, give the congratulations to entropy, gokhan and their fanboys like andreilux. One less guy competing with them.
nikzDHD said:
I'm not looking for trouble mate, I was just asking a general question. First time I've seen something like this as it was spread over multiple threads.
I feel bad for those that have paid for the app, now what happens if knzo doesn't update again, fair enough it's the end users choice whether to purchase or not but won't we get users now complaining about this as well?
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Understood. Unfortunately that's a side-issue, but I trust that when people buy an app or pay for something, or give a donation, it's done as a gratuity. Certainly, I buy every market app, expecting to never see an update for it... It's a hobby, but that's an aside, since it's not really anything to do with xda.
eskostar said:
You have to decide if you dislike that it was closed, or dislike that it was closed too late, it seems you are just looking for trouble. It's like asking why was someone allowed to steal before they got caught. Well, if the moderators had no proof and didn't know something was happening, then the thread was closed when they found out.
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Click to collapse
there is still problem with understanding GPL and usage of word steal. nothing like that happens
false adv is used by every kernel dev. for me sentence - one kernel to rule them all could be as misliding as some names like ondemand or lionheart... who cares how it is caled. important thing for the majority is that it is working ok on the default setup
and void/phoenix was quite popular here
still in the current thread all was corrected in the description before clousing it.
i could understand that some developers here could feel bad, but they have to live with that, because no rule was broken and it is how open software is working
in terms of ethics and behavior more people earn some wornings (words like steal, spiting, etc)
I'm not on any side. I just want to know that mods are above that and just. not lead by this or that side of the conflict.
that is all. good night everyone
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and "-shutdown by XDA because other S2 developers couldn't handle the competition-" part...
entropy512 is from the us and uses at&t based devices. although I release at&t kernels he always helped me. in most technical and hardware details, he enlightened us with his detailed posts.
I am regularly chatting with simone and I must say that he is both nice and funny guy (and a little hyperactive ). I never bashed his thread and we are even working on some new things togetger. he is trying his best and I hope he will be better.
and simone201 was never an asshole in my thread (or any other thread that I know of).
and you say that we cannot handle the competition?
I won't make any further comment on that.
Hi guys,
If you are interested by the TegraOwners ICS ROM A500 v169 you can see it here :
http://www.thelabel99.com/acer-iconia-a500-test-de-la-rom-ics-tregraowners-v169-par-thor-digetx/
English people, if you have questions, ask me when you want
Thanks!
Mate, you had better delete this thread right now or there is a VERY good chance you are gonna get banned.... This is the rom that isn't GPL compliant and as such all references to it are looked on with ill favour. Giving the post to it is asking to be stoned to death, even though its through another site....
You have been warned, let the flaming begin.....
Ehhhh.... it's ok. Let it go. It's just a video. Of course if it has direct links to non-GPL compliant software, then it has to go. We all know the rules.
Of course it may start some "flame" wars. I certainly hope it doesn't as there's no reason to. Everybody know's where Thor's site is. And we all know he put's out kernels that aren't allowed to be hosted on XDA due to non-disclosure of kernel source. Not that his kernel source is a big secret But Rules and Licensing agreements are what they are, regardless where the source came from.
Almost everybody here has come to accept this.
But it's still a good idea not to open old wounds.