Related
Hi,
What should I do if the rom I am using and really like has disappeared and now is unsupported?
I'm using an AOSP Froyo rom and I can't seem to find any others let alone one which everything works in.
Yes I'm using Cronos Froyo, and I'm an honest user who doesn't care much for xda forums politics.
I've read the comments that the moderators have written in the thread and whilst I understand what they have written, do end users really have to suffer because of a dispute between developers?
Yes I agree in principle that source should be released with the release, but don't other rom devs have a donators only beta testing section before general release for testing which also occurs before source code release? Feeyo as far as I'm aware takes no donations what so ever.
Also, I wonder if the xda moderators have consulted laywers about the GPL as it is a legal document and thus won't be as black and white as it seems. A lot of companies behave not dissimilarly to feeyo and survive the threat of any action.
Beyond this, hero users really owe a lot to feeyo for the couple of months before official 2.1 got released as he was the only dev to get 2.1 working properly with long lasting battery life.
plonkersaurus said:
Hi,
What should I do if the rom I am using and really like has disappeared and now is unsupported?
I'm using an AOSP Froyo rom and I can't seem to find any others let alone one which everything works in.
Yes I'm using Cronos Froyo, and I'm an honest user who doesn't care much for xda forums politics.
I've read the comments that the moderators have written in the thread and whilst I understand what they have written, do end users really have to suffer because of a dispute between developers?
Yes I agree in principle that source should be released with the release, but don't other rom devs have a donators only beta testing section before general release for testing which also occurs before source code release? Feeyo as far as I'm aware takes no donations what so ever.
Also, I wonder if the xda moderators have consulted laywers about the GPL as it is a legal document and thus won't be as black and white as it seems. A lot of companies behave not dissimilarly to feeyo and survive the threat of any action.
Beyond this, hero users really owe a lot to feeyo for the couple of months before official 2.1 got released as he was the only dev to get 2.1 working properly with long lasting battery life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe he still releases in his forum - just do a google search
nope, it seems his account has been suspended on the domain, not good.
plonkersaurus said:
sing an AOSP Froyo rom and I can't seem to find any others let alone one which everything works in.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's AOSP ROMs. Without even plugging my own, there's the Fusion project for a start.
Froyd and Fusion are Cyanogen based roms which I've tried and don't work so well for me.
I'd count them as Vanilla roms not AOSP
Dude. You might as well turn xda into thepiratebay.Breaking a software licence is illegal no matter if the software is proprietary or open source.
Sent from my HTC Hero using XDA App
plonkersaurus said:
Froyd and Fusion are Cyanogen based roms which I've tried and don't work so well for me.
I'd count them as Vanilla roms not AOSP
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only non AOSP thing about them is:
They include Google Apps
They include proprietary libs grabbed from the phone to make the phone work.
Guess what, that's what AOSP ROMs do too, the ones released here anyway, since they're largely unusable without Google Apps (Market, etc) and the libs needed to make the phone work.
If you want plain AOSP, you better have an ADP1, ADP2 or a Nexus One. There is no such thing as a pure AOSP Hero ROM.
What people mean when they refer to AOSP, is they yanked the git straight from Android and compiled it for X phone, adding in whatever apps along with the Google apps and the prop libs.
Cyanogenmod is also AOSP in that same sense. Only there's a ton of people working on the repo and fixing stuff that Android don't or haven't yet.
If you've run into a CM based ROM that doesn't work well for you then it's still down to the builder. Chances are if they made an "AOSP" ROM, it'd be even worse.
I'm actually a professional software developer.
The Hero community here, as it is, I would never contribute to, because I wouldn't want my work included into someone elses rom that they then take donations for (I would never ask for donations for my work) especially since there seems to be no pioneering development going on by themselves.
So I see feeyo as someone like me, but with a drive to get things working on the hero.
In my eyes he is a bit like a vigilante or I guess like Batman. What Batman does is illegal too you know.
Sometimes there is such thing as the lesser of two evils and the greater good.
He harmed no one doing what he did.
Hacre said:
The only non AOSP thing about them is:
They include Google Apps
They include proprietary libs grabbed from the phone to make the phone work.
Guess what, that's what AOSP ROMs do too, the ones released here anyway, since they're largely unusable without Google Apps (Market, etc) and the libs needed to make the phone work.
If you want plain AOSP, you better have an ADP1, ADP2 or a Nexus One. There is no such thing as a pure AOSP Hero ROM.
What people mean when they refer to AOSP, is they yanked the git straight from Android and compiled it for X phone, adding in whatever apps along with the Google apps and the prop libs.
Cyanogenmod is also AOSP in that same sense. Only there's a ton of people working on the repo and fixing stuff that Android don't or haven't yet.
If you've run into a CM based ROM that doesn't work well for you then it's still down to the builder. Chances are if they made an "AOSP" ROM, it'd be even worse.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cyanogenmod roms change a lot more things than just needed to get android working properly and I'm not a huge fan of all the changes
plonkersaurus said:
Hi,
What should I do if the rom I am using and really like has disappeared and now is unsupported?
.....
Yes I agree in principle that source should be released with the release, but don't other rom devs have a donators only beta testing section before general release for testing which also occurs before source code release? Feeyo as far as I'm aware takes no donations what so ever.
.....
Beyond this, hero users really owe a lot to feeyo for the couple of months before official 2.1 got released as he was the only dev to get 2.1 working properly with long lasting battery life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1... Switch to another ROM, or stick with what you have, they are your two options.
2... No, other devs do not have a "donators only beta testing section", and regardless if they did or not, I think you need to go and re-read all the info the mods have given about the GPL issue before adding your 2 pence worth.
3... I owe feeyo nothing. He may have produced ROMS, but contribute to the community he did not.
Sent from my HTC Hero using XDA App
plonkersaurus said:
I'm actually a professional software developer.
The Hero community here, as it is, I would never contribute to, because I wouldn't want my work included into someone elses rom that they then take donations for (I would never ask for donations for my work) especially since there seems to be no pioneering development going on by themselves.
So I see feeyo as someone like me, but with a drive to get things working on the hero.
In my eyes he is a bit like a vigilante or I guess like Batman. What Batman does is illegal too you know.
Sometimes there is such thing as the lesser of two evils and the greater good.
He harmed no one doing what he did.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hahaha what. Being a developer doesn't mean you "get" the point of the GPL. Plenty of developers over at Microsoft don't "get" it. That doesn't make it any less valid.
In fact your entire post just screams "I do not understand open source development, what on Earth is wrong with people doing stuff themselves and hoarding it".
The "pioneering development" as you put it doesn't happen by individuals because it happens in groups. You know, lots of minds working towards a common goal.
Jesus on a bike.
EDIT: woah..
plonkersaurus said:
Beyond this, hero users really owe a lot to feeyo for the couple of months before official 2.1 got released as he was the only dev to get 2.1 working properly with long lasting battery life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I missed this when I first read the OP. Hahaha no he wasn't. Battery life has to be one of the most done to death topics on these forums and do you know what? Your battery life is solely dependent on you the phone user, providing of course the developer or the cooker hasn't done something utterly retarded to the ROM that causes battery to run down.
Until Froyo was released, Cronos wasn't even a compiled ROM it was a precompiled Sense ROM and as such subject to all the whims of the HTC base that the rest of us were.
Oh and I don't owe him anything. Never used his ROM, never benefited from what he apparently gave back to the community (nothing). He owed me and whomever else asked him for it, source code, which happened to be the one thing he never once provided while being happy to make use of source code provided by others.
Hacre said:
Hahaha what. Being a develloper doesn't mean you "get" the point of the GPL. Plenty of developers over at Microsoft don't "get" it. That doesn't make it any less valid.
In fact your entire post just screams "I do not understand open source development, what on Earth is wrong with people doing stuff themselves and hoarding it".
The "pioneering development" as you put it doesn't happen by individuals because it happens in groups. You know, lots of minds working towards a common goal.
Jesus on a bike.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't mention GPL anywhere in my post.
I mentioned that I wouldn't help this community due to the fact people would be accepting donations for what would be in part my work which I think is immoral.
That is what my post was about.
Plus I think you will find Linus wrote Linux by himself so individuals are capable of greatness.
plonkersaurus said:
Plus I think you will find Linus wrote Linux by himself so individuals are capable of greatness.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Re check your history. Linus did not write Linux by himself. He wrote the first kernel by himself. Linux wasn't truly born until he released it along with the source code and people started fixing it, writing drivers for it and writing coreutils/toolchains around it. It didn't approach anything like popular until it got x86 support and the kernel reached a level of maturity in the 2.0.x releases. Collaborative development/debugging. It's an amazing thing. Stunted quickly by the "I will not share" attitude that you're defending and supporting.
I am genuinely curious as to how you can guarantee that people will receive donations for your work. Or why you'd even care. My kernel source tree is used by others, I don't lose a wink of sleep over whether they get donations for their finished ROM or not, it doesn't matter.
Donations are just that, donations. They are not a fee. They are not someone taking someone else's work and then charging for it. They're something that an individual feels that they want to give to someone out of the kindness of their hearts as a thank you as well as the fact that donations are quite a rarity.
I got my first donation today. It'll buy me a few beers. It won't make me rich. I got it for my work on the kernel and my work on the Villain 2.2 ROMs. Have a guess how many people at Villain are now pissy that I got a donation and not the project itself. None. Have a guess how many GNU developers are now hand wringing themselves with pure fret because some guy got bought a beer for some work he did on their code. None.
You didn't have to mention the GPL in your post. The GPL is why these ridiculous threads keep springing up, it was the GPL and the failure to adhere to it, that got Feeyo canned.
People with your attitude toward community development have no place on these forums. Kindly take the door that has a Feeyo shaped hole in it.
plonkersaurus said:
I'm actually a professional software developer.
The Hero community here, as it is, I would never contribute to, because I wouldn't want my work included into someone elses rom that they then take donations for (I would never ask for donations for my work) especially since there seems to be no pioneering development going on by themselves.
So I see feeyo as someone like me, but with a drive to get things working on the hero.
In my eyes he is a bit like a vigilante or I guess like Batman. What Batman does is illegal too you know.
Sometimes there is such thing as the lesser of two evils and the greater good.
He harmed no one doing what he did.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you don't want to share then Android is not for you.
And why the big deal about asking for donations. Its not free to run a site. And a donation is hardly mandatory, the clue is in the name, no-one was bent over and forced to do anything they never wanted to.
I have used Villain on and off since Feb and haven't donated a penny.
.... and Batman? Really? Yes he makes the decisions that no one else can, for the greater good, the bigger picture... he doesn't play hero just to boost his own ego.
Sent from my HTC Hero using XDA App
Hacre said:
EDIT: woah..
I missed this when I first read the OP. Hahaha no he wasn't. Battery life has to be one of the most done to death topics on these forums and do you know what? Your battery life is solely dependent on you the phone user, providing of course the developer or the cooker hasn't done something utterly retarded to the ROM that causes battery to run down.
Until Froyo was released, Cronos wasn't even a compiled ROM it was a precompiled Sense ROM and as such subject to all the whims of the HTC base that the rest of us were.
Oh and I don't owe him anything. Never used his ROM, never benefited from what he apparently gave back to the community (nothing). He owed me and whomever else asked him for it, source code, which happened to be the one thing he never once provided while being happy to make use of source code provided by others.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, so you never used his rom. I did and it was leagues ahead of anything else at the time. It made our phones really usable with 2.1. I remember when it was first released it was in the top 5 threads for a week on the front page of xda so I'm sure I wasn't the only one to experience this.
Also, sometimes it's the way you ask for something. I never once saw you ask for the source code with a view to work with him on it, only to get access to it. I know you are going to spout GPL rules now but I would rather not provide them knowing they will be taken over and most likely I would not be included in development in a "team" way, and rather take the punishment when it came of being banned.
plonkersaurus said:
Also, sometimes it's the way you ask for something. I never once saw you ask for the source code with a view to work with him on it, only to get access to it. I know you are going to spout GPL rules now but I would rather not provide them knowing they will be taken over and most likely I would not be included in development in a "team" way, and rather take the punishment when it came of being banned.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My first four or five requests were incredibly polite. There were a plethora of polite request the first time he pulled this stunt too. My reason for asking was irrelevant. However my reason for asking for those particular sources, were twofold:
1: I didn't believe it.
2: If it was true then the community should damn well get access to it so we as a group can get it up to full working order so that EVERY ROM DEVELOPER can make use of it.
Taken over? What? I now don't believe that you're a developer, at least nothing outside pointing and clicking in a GUI based programming tool in some office somewhere, because you clearly have no idea of what collaborative development is. You cannot shut anyone, ANYONE, out of a GPL project, that's the whole frigging point. See my signature? Source code. Source code anyone can take and modify. Source code people are welcome to change, fix, port, patch and if they want to, submit a pull request so I can merge those fixes in.
Click the link. Follow the fork tree. Observe the magic as my changes move upstream to the original cyanogenmod + Hero kernel. Observe further magic as changes they make merge their way down into my kernel. Yeah I/we are really all about shutting people out.
Stop trolling.
plonkersaurus said:
Ok, so you never used his rom. I did and it was leagues ahead of anything else at the time. It made our phones really usable with 2.1. I remember when it was first released it was in the top 5 threads for a week on the front page of xda so I'm sure I wasn't the only one to experience this.
Also, sometimes it's the way you ask for something. I never once saw you ask for the source code with a view to work with him on it, only to get access to it. I know you are going to spout GPL rules now but I would rather not provide them knowing they will be taken over and most likely I would not be included in development in a "team" way, and rather take the punishment when it came of being banned.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You might be right, maybe they wouldn't have let him be in the team, maybe they would have. Who cares, they would have had to credit it to him either way, just as they credit help from other developers now.
The main point is that he wasn't willing to help push things forward. He wanted all the spotlight for himself.
Sent from my HTC Hero using XDA App
Hacre said:
Re check your history. Linus did not write Linux by himself. He wrote the first kernel by himself. Linux wasn't truly born until he released it along with the source code and people started fixing it, writing drivers for it and writing coreutils/toolchains around it. It didn't approach anything like popular until it got x86 support and the kernel reached a level of maturity in the 2.0.x releases. Collaborative development/debugging. It's an amazing thing. Stunted quickly by the "I will not share" attitude that you're defending and supporting.
I am genuinely curious as to how you can guarantee that people will receive donations for your work. Or why you'd even care. My kernel source tree is used by others, I don't lose a wink of sleep over whether they get donations for their finished ROM or not, it doesn't matter.
Donations are just that, donations. They are not a fee. They are not someone taking someone else's work and then charging for it. They're something that an individual feels that they want to give to someone out of the kindness of their hearts as a thank you as well as the fact that donations are quite a rarity.
I got my first donation today. It'll buy me a few beers. It won't make me rich. I got it for my work on the kernel and my work on the Villain 2.2 ROMs. Have a guess how many people at Villain are now pissy that I got a donation and not the project itself. None. Have a guess how many GNU developers are now hand wringing themselves with pure fret because some guy got bought a beer for some work he did on their code. None.
You didn't have to mention the GPL in your post. The GPL is why these ridiculous threads keep springing up, it was the GPL and the failure to adhere to it, that got Feeyo canned.
People with your attitude toward community development have no place on these forums. Kindly take the door that has a Feeyo shaped hole in it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the problem here is your attitude, you seem to think you own the place. I am free to stay here as I wish as far as I know. I also don't believe you are reading my posts correctly as you seem to think I am against community programming which is further from the truth.
I never said I wouldn't share. I wouldn't share with you. I think community programming is great all things being equal. It seems to me that the hero community here is terrible right now and thus I wouldn't help it.
Getting people banned definitely isn't making you friends either. I honestly never saw you wanting to work with feeyo only to get at his work.
I would have no problem helping out trying to get android to work on the Xperia X1 and supplying my source code as that is a true example of people working together.
Hacre said:
My first four or five requests were incredibly polite. There were a plethora of polite request the first time he pulled this stunt too. My reason for asking was irrelevant. However my reason for asking for those particular sources, were twofold:
1: I didn't believe it.
2: If it was true then the community should damn well get access to it so we as a group can get it up to full working order so that EVERY ROM DEVELOPER can make use of it.
Taken over? What? I now don't believe that you're a developer, at least nothing outside pointing and clicking in a GUI based programming tool in some office somewhere, because you clearly have no idea of what collaborative development is. You cannot shut anyone, ANYONE, out of a GPL project, that's the whole frigging point. See my signature? Source code. Source code anyone can take and modify. Source code people are welcome to change, fix, port, patch and if they want to, submit a pull request so I can merge those fixes in.
Click the link. Follow the fork tree. Observe the magic as my changes move upstream to the original cyanogenmod + Hero kernel. Observe further magic as changes they make merge their way down into my kernel. Yeah I/we are really all about shutting people out.
Stop trolling.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's not what I mean by shutting people out. I'm not trolling but replying to your false accusations.
You are also trying to personally discredit me by calling me a point and click GUI programmer which is below the belt. You know nothing about me.
What I mean is, working together as these roms are virtually the same project is about communicating. Something that would not have happened and does in a real collaborative effort.
I'm sick of this thread and having to defend myself because you fail to understand what working together really means. And no it's not just following rules. It's obvious you aren't a professional programmer. People skills and management are just as important as being able to program and that is the point I am trying to get at.
I think you've formed your opinion and regardless of how many times Hacre blows your point out of the water, your not going to be swayed are you. He shouldn't even have to explain himself to you, every point had been covered in the other fan threads already.
Sent from my HTC Hero using XDA App
King is almost done with his AOSP rom....looks incredible from what i can see...check out his site and go to the forums for more details......
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Hmm... how long til this thread gets closed too?
Hey... This thing makes phone calls too!
JTNiggle said:
Hmm... how long til this thread gets closed too?
Hey... This thing makes phone calls too!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep this is the same guy posting garbage about getting update to GB on his Nexus. I recognize this fool by his exclamation marks.
kamasi36 said:
Yep this is the same guy posting garbage about getting update to GB on his Nexus. I recognize this fool by his exclamation marks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok so the guy got banned. Does that mean anything related to his work is forbidden on XDA?
Sent while sitting on the toilet.
I'm sure he will charge people to use his work and get support because of course he made it from scratch with no help..
MrDSL said:
I'm sure he will charge people to use his work and get support because of course he made it from scratch with no help..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this ! <--- THIS !!
I sort of like sense, until the level of the android integration changes, as it's supposed to ˜32 for GB. Last I saw king was sorting it out and testing the wifi stuff.
The issue with all of android development is the "glue" which holds the pieces together. The changes in frameworks (new releases..) necessitates changes in the "glue". So whether it's changes to arguments, changes to calls, changes to tunnels / pipes, semaphores, locks, all these take work. Code does not compile and test itself, yet (lol). So a system integrator, which is what devs do, earns its (non-sexist) keep by using other peoples / coders stuff.
Vision is what all the devs have. Vision to see how the pieces should fit together. So I support his sorry ass, till this site comes to the same realization. I also support others. I fully appreciate their work and effort. How can people expect code for free? F off the devs are entitled to remuneration. Supporters fill the niche of testers, I almost wish the stuff was first given, then issued to supporters. As it is, we test, you benefit, back asswords...
So Kings AOSP rom is in his forum and he has done bunch of stuff to make it work. Decadence, Flipz, Birdman, Hill, Koush, Cyanogen, Amon_RA, Hero_over, KingX, and everybody else who "devs" should be names you remember at this start of a new genera of personal computing. Stories to tell your kids... "see that xxx on the TV, that's my software."
BTW if google is going to compete with MS, it had better start funding.
I am amazed that these people provide stuff, and people have the gall to comment on them, IT'S THE CODE, not the coder.
Amen.
Lotsa small minded folks... gotta coddle em', cajole' em, and hope that the code/Roms themselves take centerstage.. not they're drama.
The site in question requires registration for most downloads and requires donations as well for certain things (aka selling).
I am sorry, but I will have to close this thread.
EDIT, 12/12/10:
It looks like there is a ton of desire here and drive to get some major work accomplished. I just spoke with ferman via PM regarding the future of this project. I wanted to throw the idea out there, and I want to be a part of it, but I am (obviously) in no way equipped to lead such an effort. As I told him, I am much more the monkey-behind-the-keyboard writing code than the project manager at this point, and would happily contribute to any group that desires to further the Captivate's development.
So, without further ado, I hand the reins over to ferman and anyone else that congeals together as communal guidance. I'll be happy just to contribute code.
I thank everyone for their patience while I haven't been here to answer anyone's questions or even acknowledge everyone's involvement. Once I am done with release season at work, I only hope there's still room on the team for another monkey behind a keyboard!
I struggled with whether to post this in "General" or "Development" - I settled on "Development" as it is regarding, well...development.
If enough people are interested, I'd like to start the group development of a ROM, tentatively named "QAM". Cornerstones of QAM? No donations accepted, except for git submissions ("Free and In the Clear" - get it?); group development with specialization based on the team members' skill sets; widely accesible code with an emphasis on sound open source development practices; and clearly documented, well tested changes and updates.
With all of the drama here recently, especially regarding Axura, I think it's time that some of us try to steer this place back to what it used to be.
I'm an enterprise dev in my nine to five. As many have voiced, I have no doubts about my ability to develop a nice ROM for my own personal use. But I value my time, recognize that I am not as efficient in some areas (UI and UX, for instance), and understand from my professional life how much better of a result can be achieved when you've got a diversified team developing together.
Anyone that is a fan of Agile Development Practices will know where I am coming from. If anyone is interested in working together, let's start a dialogue here and now. If you're merely interested in flaming and thread crapping, move along - this isn't the thread you're looking for.
[EDIT - 12/06/10, 8:51PM] Posted an update within the thread. I didn't anticipate this much interest, but I'm glad it's there. I'm going to go through the thread tonight and start assembling names, etc.
i'm interested, but i dont really have any skills in relation to creating a rom or anything of the like. but if can help let me know!
Intresting...
hansmrtn said:
Intresting...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
very.
i will gladly help where i can. i think this is a great concept and definitely brings us back to the roots of OpenSource Development.
lets please get this going. what do you need?
Nice
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
hansmrtn said:
Intresting...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would like to offer my services. I loved supporting the Axura users and would love to support yours. I have a little programming experience, I mainly deal with ISS day in and day out though. Let me know what you think. I really think this could turn into something great!
vbhines said:
I struggled with whether to post this in "General" or "Development" - I settled on "Development" as it is regarding, well...development.
If enough people are interested, I'd like to start the group development of a ROM, tentatively named "QAM". Cornerstones of QAM? No donations accepted, except for git submissions ("Free and In the Clear" - get it?); group development with specialization based on the team members' skill sets; widely accesible code with an emphasis on sound open source development practices; and clearly documented, well tested changes and updates.
With all of the drama here recently, especially regarding Axura, I think it's time that some of us try to steer this place back to what it used to be.
I'm an enterprise dev in my nine to five. As many have voiced, I have no doubts about my ability to develop a nice ROM for my own personal use. But I value my time, recognize that I am not as efficient in some areas (UI and UX, for instance), and understand from my professional life how much better of a result can be achieved when you've got a diversified team developing together.
Anyone that is a fan of Agile Development Practices will know where I am coming from. If anyone is interested in working together, let's start a dialogue here and now. If you're merely interested in flaming and thread crapping, move along - this isn't the thread you're looking for.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds great. Even though I font know much about development myself, I would love yo help somehow(maybe I could be one of those highly cautious/thorough testers you were talking about).
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Sounds interesting. I'm interested in at least testing for you guys. I'd love to start coding for Android (BSc in Computer Science, but enjoy coding every once in a blue moon), but never got around to learning. I'll def keep my eye on this thread though, and help where I can
@OP:
Think this is an amazing idea! Definitely can see a lot come from this.
Idea though: you should maybe put up some slots to be filled so we can get some development teams, focused on their own individual part of the rom, together, so we know for sure that this will be great.
The most I can help with is being the app-writer-assistant XD.
I have yet to see a rom with its own app(s)(not counting DG's lbs launch) and I would love to see one with its own music player,notes,messaging, etc. I'm not experienced at all, i just know some java and I'm still learning android developtment(i got 3 big books next to me right now).
In fact I wouldn't be offended at all if you just say "no, thank you". I just really like the idea and I thought that if i proposed this it would at least give some initiative to develop custom apps with the custom roms and make this project that much more...unique
i'd like to see and participate in some REAL developement. A lot of these "devs" (especially the ones complaining) arent doing much developement and instead are just piecing together different things REAL devs have created into these roms and then trying to extort "donations" out of people. There's a select few developers frontlining the kernel developement that are doing real, good work.
imagine if we had multiple people creating roms like cyanogenmod on here...
I would be interested. I have done some android programming as well as some Other stuff. Never did any rom development but would like to give it a shot
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
I can do 'modem testing'.. I travel for a living and encounter the various Freq's, EDGE, 3G, and believe it or not the pre EDGE network (cant think of the name at the moment, long day) almost every day.
Hey I wouldn't be much help in terms of development but I am willing to test anything you guys build
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whitesox311 said:
i'd like to see and participate in some REAL developement. A lot of these "devs" (especially the ones complaining) arent doing much developement and instead are just piecing together different things REAL devs have created into these roms and then trying to extort "donations" out of people. There's a select few developers frontlining the kernel developement that are doing real, good work.
imagine if we had multiple people creating roms like cyanogenmod on here...
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Click to collapse
This is exactly the sort of thing this thread and concept will help avoid. The Rom builders that are causing drama do alot of work. And we all benefit. Even if they are getting more traffic and donations than the ones doing the kernel and other mods and making them available for the Rom and kernel builders.
I don't mind seeing a little competition in the thread titles. And each dev has an opinion as to what's best and thus we have several different roms. But the bickering I've seen is ridiculous. But understandable. There are no rules in place. No required donation. No licensing on much of what's up. Its a bit of a mess.
Id love to see what a captivate oriented community effort will produce. Team whisky is great but not all that works on the vibrant works on the captivate.
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is this like the android syndicate in epic4G threads lol?
I'm in, PM me
i'm willing to flash as many iterations of this as you may develop. no technical expertise on my end though ...
I can test and am willing to learn any thing that will help with developing. I have strong computer background. Just new to android.
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im in for testing
DEVS! Would it be possible to use a FroYo Kernel for CM7 like the Droid X Developers did?
DON'T TROLL! IF YOU DO, THE MODS WILL SEE IT AND BAN YOU!
As we all know, the last Thread that involved CM7 Development for the Epic was closed because people got Off-Topic, so I decided to start this one just so we know where developing is going. This is just for those people who don't know how to read Github or don't want to check it every 3 seconds, and are okay with waiting a week for getting an update.
Please PLEASE PLEASE, DO NOT ASK FOR ETA'S! I know that someone will ask, but seriously. DO NOT ASK. It's annoying as hell. If the developers know when a release would happen, they'd tell us. Trust me, they would. But developing for our phone is difficult.
They can't Port something from the Vibrant or the Captivate because their GSM Phones and we're CDMA, meaning we use different signals or some crap like that. But I think it means that 3G and Calls and all of that would be hard to work on, not to mention 4G.
4G is an issue because it's something not many phones have, especially in the Galaxy S line. Remember that we're one of the original Galaxy S Phones, so we have it, and the Captivate, Vibrant, and Fascinate don't. This makes stuff even harder because then the developers have one more thing on their list to work on, that they never had before.
From what I saw last time, nullghost was trying to port the Nexus S 4G .35 Kernel. This is a Gingerbread Kernel. Remember that the Nexus S 4G is a STOCK GINGERBREAD phone, with no TouchWiz. The Kernel is just the thing that connects the software with the hardware, so this might also be hard because we have a keyboard and most other phones don't (I don't know if this really effects it, but from my prior experiences from Android, it does).
Lets say the Kernel gets Ported. The NS4G has 4G (no kidding). Don't quote me, but I think that'd get the camera working because obviously the camera is a piece of hardware, that should get 4G working because the the NS4G has it. GPS should probably work, although I'm sure that works if you use the GPS Status Method, and I'm not too sure about MMS and what the issue is with that.
Now, when I check Github, it appears as if the developers have stopped working? I mean, props to them for all they've done for us, but if I'm reading github properly, it seems as if they've taken a break (please correct me if I'm wrong).
Really. The only big problem we have is with people who won't stop asking for ETA's. Please, just don't ask. You'll cause more problems then you will help if you do get a reply.
And if anybody has any questions about the CM7-A4, feel free to ask them here. You should however check the closed Thread. It might be locked, but there's a reason it's not deleted, you can still read it, so please do.
Remember, no asking for ETA's. Just don't do it. Any questions, check the older Thread and in a few days or weeks what should be this Thread. Also check Github. No ETA's. Keep this on task, no gangster stuff. Kthnxbye.
Original Android <3ers! said:
DON'T TROLL! IF YOU DO, THE MODS WILL SEE IT AND BAN YOU!
As we all know, the last Thread that involved CM7 Development for the Epic was closed because people got Off-Topic, so I decided to start this one just so we know where developing is going. This is just for those people who don't know how to read Github or don't want to check it every 3 seconds, and are okay with waiting a week for getting an update.
Please PLEASE PLEASE, DO NOT ASK FOR ETA'S! I know that someone will ask, but seriously. DO NOT ASK. It's annoying as hell. If the developers know when a release would happen, they'd tell us. Trust me, they would. But developing for our phone is difficult.
They can't Port something from the Vibrant or the Captivate because their GSM Phones and we're CDMA, meaning we use different signals or some crap like that. But I think it means that 3G and Calls and all of that would be hard to work on, not to mention 4G.
4G is an issue because it's something not many phones have, especially in the Galaxy S line. Remember that we're one of the original Galaxy S Phones, so we have it, and the Captivate, Vibrant, and Fascinate don't. This makes stuff even harder because then the developers have one more thing on their list to work on, that they never had before.
From what I saw last time, nullghost was trying to port the Nexus S 4G .35 Kernel. This is a Gingerbread Kernel. Remember that the Nexus S 4G is a STOCK GINGERBREAD phone, with no TouchWiz. The Kernel is just the thing that connects the software with the hardware, so this might also be hard because we have a keyboard and most other phones don't (I don't know if this really effects it, but from my prior experiences from Android, it does).
Lets say the Kernel gets Ported. The NS4G has 4G (no kidding). Don't quote me, but I think that'd get the camera working because obviously the camera is a piece of hardware, that should get 4G working because the the NS4G has it. GPS should probably work, although I'm sure that works if you use the GPS Status Method, and I'm not too sure about MMS and what the issue is with that.
Now, when I check Github, it appears as if the developers have stopped working? I mean, props to them for all they've done for us, but if I'm reading github properly, it seems as if they've taken a break (please correct me if I'm wrong).
Really. The only big problem we have is with people who won't stop asking for ETA's. Please, just don't ask. You'll cause more problems then you will help if you do get a reply.
And if anybody has any questions about the CM7-A4, feel free to ask them here. You should however check the closed Thread. It might be locked, but there's a reason it's not deleted, you can still read it, so please do.
Remember, no asking for ETA's. Just don't do it. Any questions, check the older Thread and in a few days or weeks what should be this Thread. Also check Github. No ETA's. Keep this on task, no gangster stuff. Kthnxbye.
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Click to collapse
i disagree with the dont ask about ETA.
I think that if you announce that you are working on something then people have a right to ask for an eta.
People should be informed as to what is going on both good and bad...
While it can get to be like are we their yet thing... but then i would say you should have never announced something to begin with.
There's a reason I made that rule. If you look at every other CM7 Thread for the Epic, their closed because of ETA's. Don't even attempt to question what I have posted, it's based on fact.
daddy_droid said:
i disagree with the dont ask about ETA.
I think that if you announce that you are working on something then people have a right to ask for an eta.
People should be informed as to what is going on both good and bad...
While it can get to be like are we their yet thing... but then i would say you should have never announced something to begin with.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In other news....
I heard the Droid X has Cyanogenmod mostly working with it's stock 2.2 kernel. I wonder what all the Droid X devs had to do to make it work.
With the 2.3 kernel source being so close to fruition, it probably isn't worth it to give their method a try but if samsung can't get gingerbread working in the next couple of months it might be worth a shot.
And queue take 3... omfg, when will people learn, this is not to debate ETA.
Original Android <3ers! said:
There's a reason I made that rule. If you look at every other CM7 Thread for the Epic, their closed because of ETA's. Don't even attempt to question what I have posted, it's based on fact.
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Click to collapse
really not allowed to talk about that? Since when can someone else take away my free speech rights to ask when something is gonna to be released? If you dont want to answer a question for eta then just dont reply to it. After all no one is making you reply to anything.
If you HAVE NOTHING TO SHARE DONT POST IN DEVELOPMENT.
I'm trying to be honest with you and save you from being flamed. Did you even read the first post? The devs don't have the kernel source for the Epic 2.3.3 or beyond, nor do they have it for the Nexus S 4G, so until then, they have to stop developing because they cannot do ANYTHING without it. So an answer to an ETA is never.
lynyrd65 said:
In other news....
I heard the Droid X has Cyanogenmod mostly working with it's stock 2.2 kernel. I wonder what all the Droid X devs had to do to make it work.
With the 2.3 kernel source being so close to fruition, it probably isn't worth it to give their method a try but if samsung can't get gingerbread working in the next couple of months it might be worth a shot.
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Click to collapse
I think this would be a good idea while we wait for the Kernel source actually...
nullghost mentioned that CM6 would be in the same state as CM 7. Idk why, but yea.
No no, we're saying use the FroYo Kernel for CM7!
Original Android <3ers! said:
No no, we're saying use the FroYo Kernel for CM7!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh damn it, reading comprehension! My bad, my bad, continue the thread. Devs: could this also be possible?
Darkshneider said:
Oh damn it, reading comprehension! My bad, my bad, continue the thread. Devs: could this also be possible?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No.
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Original Android <3ers! said:
No no, we're saying use the FroYo Kernel for CM7!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fail. We've attempted this. A lot of the updated proprietary modules from gb and necessary for gb require updated kernel drivers which are present in .35 and would require more work to backport than what we're doing now.
We also do have NS4G source, we kanged everything we could from it.
We are lacking proper regulator sauce along with the branched victory gpio assignments which we can only fire blanks at right now since they have a completely new naming scheme in the aries(.35) tree.
If you want to know why these threads are closed, it's because I send requests that they be closed.
Why?
Because the participants in the threads usually spend more time speculating about possible scenarios rather than reading or asking 'good' questions.
In short, we're waiting on .35 release; then we'll either A) merge the victory bits to the unified aries tree or B) merge cm specific bits from aries to our victory sauce.
That's that.
The reason being? I dont get how theres source for 2.2 and we cant get CM6, how would 2.3 source help us get CM7 working?
And I got my answer while typing because of Deca. Thnx!
Decad3nce said:
Fail. We've attempted this. A lot of the updated proprietary modules from gb and necessary for gb require updated kernel drivers which are present in .35 and would require more work to backport than what we're doing now.
We also do have NS4G source, we kanged everything we could from it.
We are lacking proper regulator sauce along with the branched victory gpio assignments which we can only fire blanks at right now since they have a completely new naming scheme in the aries(.35) tree.
If you want to know why these threads are closed, it's because I send requests that they be closed.
Why?
Because the participants in the threads usually spend more time speculating about possible scenarios rather than reading or asking 'good' questions.
In short, we're waiting on .35 release; then we'll either A) merge the victory bits to the unified aries tree or B) merge cm specific bits from aries to our victory sauce.
That's that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So you don't like me?
Original Android <3ers! said:
So you don't like me?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't mind you, your motives are good, but this environment fosters redundant and pointless poo flingin'. Which usually leads to us responding with the same information, over and over.
Original Android <3ers! said:
So you don't like me?
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Click to collapse
Great way to lose another Dev.
Remember Konane? I really liked him. It's such a pitty.
Decadence, I appreciate your hard work. I'm sorry for causing this. I know you have done what you can and are working as hard as is possible, please don't be deterred by these threads. Some of us really do appreciate your work.
lynyrd65 said:
Great way to lose another Dev. Remember Konane? I really liked him. It's such a pitty.
Decadence, I appreciate your hard work. I'm sorry for causing this. I know you have done what you can and are working as hard as is possible, please don't be deterred by these threads. Some of us really do appreciate your work.
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Click to collapse
I'm not deterred. Far from it. Maybe bored since I only have one summer class and way too much free time to stare at proprietary bits :|
Decad3nce said:
I'm not deterred. Far from it. Maybe bored since I only have one summer class and way too much free time to stare at proprietary bits :|
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Click to collapse
Developers tend to support developers.
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well i thought i'd get this up before source for JB (4.1) drops... I'm looking for a dev willing to let me watch them as they build a ROM and make changes to that ROM... no i don't need to come over your house to do this... I was thinking of a live video stream of your screen as you do the work... if you're willing to allow me to watch and maybe answer a few questions in between, i'm willing to learn!!
i learn really fast if i'm watching someone do it which is why i'm taking this approach rather than trying to read through a bunch of threads on this topic... that stuff basically looks like a foreign language to me... especially when they talk linux stuff lol... i can catch on quickly but i need to SEE IT BEING DONE... not reading and having my brain decode what i just read...
so please pass this thread along... the site i'm looking to use is join.me and it can be viewed by more than one person... so if someone else is willing to jump in on the fun and the dev is cool with it... we all can watch as they work their magic...
preferably someone that's gonna be building on crespo/crespo4g... but i'll take whoever is willing to teach!!
disclaimer: i'm not even looking for a real "expert" on the subject... just someone to do the basic work so i can take notes and then do the stuff myself!!
PM me if you're a dev and willing to help out!! what do you have to lose? nothing really... you're just gonna load the program and let it stream as you do the stuff you normall would do...
sn: it doesn't have to be Jelly Bean... but seeing as source is coming out soon... i figured someone will want to start fresh and build from aosp... that's really where i'd like to start from!!
I'd love to watch too
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umm. the best way to do it is to just follow the step by step guides online. doesnt get much easier than that. you watching isn't going to help when they already have all the software installed
derekwilkinson said:
umm. the best way to do it is to just follow the step by step guides online. doesnt get much easier than that. you watching isn't going to help when they already have all the software installed
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thanks but i have everything i need to build a ROM installed and have already built one from CM9 source... i'm talking about all the other edits and things they do... ie: adding in or removing features of a ROM...
and if you re-read my OP... i said reading this stuff is like learning another language... i'm a visual learner... i need to SEE these things then do them... not read them and try to decode whatever i just read...
the1dynasty said:
thanks but i have everything i need to build a ROM installed and have already built one from CM9 source... i'm talking about all the other edits and things they do... ie: adding in or removing features of a ROM...
and if you re-read my OP... i said reading this stuff is like learning another language... i'm a visual learner... i need to SEE these things then do them... not read them and try to decode whatever i just read...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just happen to work for a company the makes tools to help visual learners.
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Yea I'm willing too. I got a few things going here. Along with ubuntu, sdk, java6, android kitchen. I'm more of a visual learner. I've been constantly researching to point where my brain hurts to think android. I need a break. But I'm willing as well. Some devs out there no even respond to help needed. I would love to watch Fergie716 at work tho.
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My video will be up tomorrow (today) in my MIUI thread. I have everything ready for it. I just had a bit too much to drink tonight (its 450am)
Tomorrow afternoon it'll be up
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I also like to watch.
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I agree with the OP, one thing I think is missing (or at least in my experience hard to find) in the Android ROM community is a set of guides on how to properly do things (branch with repo to make a mod, apply patches from other trees, add prebuilt apks, add source provided apps, integrate su, busybox, creating your own vendor, device, adding your kernel, etc)
It's all scattered all over the net, sure you can figure some of it out but if you lower the barrier of entry people will be able to focus their energy on doing better work somewhere else.
gparent said:
I agree with the OP, one thing I think is missing (or at least in my experience hard to find) in the Android ROM community is a set of guides on how to properly do things (branch with repo to make a mod, apply patches from other trees, add prebuilt apks, add source provided apps, integrate su, busybox, creating your own vendor, device, adding your kernel, etc)
It's all scattered all over the net, sure you can figure some of it out but if you lower the barrier of entry people will be able to focus their energy on doing better work somewhere else.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i really couldn't have said it any better!!
i know Fergie usually puts out some great tutorials... i used his stuff when i was learning to theme... so hopefully he delivers on this as well... i would still like to do a live "webinar-type" of training tho if any dev is up for that!!
we can get a time going so that everyone can login at the same time and see what's being done...
I'd also like to see how its done, I would love to be able to cook up some things and then release a ROM to the public. I'm sure it's not easy but I'm willing to take a wack at it
Btw are you guys using pretty powerful computers for building ROMS? Or would you say they're average spec?
stellar said:
I'd also like to see how its done, I would love to be able to cook up some things and then release a ROM to the public. I'm sure it's not easy but I'm willing to take a wack at it
Btw are you guys using pretty powerful computers for building ROMS? Or would you say they're average spec?
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Click to collapse
mine isn't that great tbh... but it manages to put out something... once your setup is correct and you do your first build... the second build of that ROM is usually a lot faster...
i think average would be around quad core with 8GB RAM... that's my guess based on a few devs i've heard from...
the1dynasty said:
mine isn't that great tbh... but it manages to put out something... once your setup is correct and you do your first build... the second build of that ROM is usually a lot faster...
i think average would be around quad core with 8GB RAM... that's my guess based on a few devs i've heard from...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I like to learn too. But my pc is just dual core 3.0ghz 4gig ram what do you think?
Sent from my Nexus S™
mixtapes08 said:
I like to learn too. But my pc is just dual core 3.0ghz 4gig ram what do you think?
Sent from my Nexus S™
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it will take longer than some other PC's... but that will still work... i'd guess a few hrs to build a ROM... mine is around those specs and it takes a few hrs on the initial build lol
There should also be a thread for porting, kinda like "chef central" where users could get support on certain issues with their ports.. Over there in chef central the people seem to only help people that are building from source.. there's not too much support for people doing ports which is unfortunate because not everyone is skilled enough to build from source and having ports is what keeps some devices alive... In this thread there would be threads where you could post your logcat if your not getting boot and some of the more experienced porters (like fergie for example) could take a look and point you in the right direction. Also there could be guides and tutorials as how to get certain aspects of the ROM working like HWA, WiMax, MMS/SMS so on and so forth... I think that it would really bring a lot of new life to some devices that don't get the support that they should..
Anyone else agree on that or is just me?
evol4g said:
there's not too much support for people doing ports which is unfortunate because not everyone is skilled enough to build from source and having ports is what keeps some devices alive...
Anyone else agree on that or is just me?
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Click to collapse
I agree with the whole sentiment "more people should build things", but not with "aosp is too hard so we should help people do ports". Unless a port is the only way to get a device working, we definitely should focus on making aosp easier to learn if that's part of a problem the porting people are having.
Anyway, I started my own ROM yesterday and might end up making a wiki to document a bunch of things I'm doing. It's a very stock-ish ROM though, so I won't spend much time writing about adding mods other than a few basic ones.
-IF- I do get around to making the wiki, I will post here about it.
As for the computer, I am using a i7 930 (2.8GHz) with 24GB of RAM.
gparent said:
I agree with the whole sentiment "more people should build things", but not with "aosp is too hard so we should help people do ports". Unless a port is the only way to get a device working, we definitely should focus on making aosp easier to learn if that's part of a problem the porting people are having.
Anyway, I started my own ROM yesterday and might end up making a wiki to document a bunch of things I'm doing. It's a very stock-ish ROM though, so I won't spend much time writing about adding mods other than a few basic ones.
-IF- I do get around to making the wiki, I will post here about it.
As for the computer, I am using a i7 930 (2.8GHz) with 24GB of RAM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
id like to ask.. is making a rom really difficult.. how much java language knowledge would a person need to have to build from source...?
ferozfero said:
id like to ask.. is making a rom really difficult.. how much java language knowledge would a person need to have to build from source...?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, one of the fun things about being a maintainer rather than a developer is that you really don't -need- much knowledge at all.
Everything helps, though. Yesterday I fixed a gcc compilation issue from knowledge of C++ that I acquired over a number of years. It wasn't a hard bug to fix and I could've asked a friend about it instead, but being a programmer lets me get away with fixing mistakes I see in AOSP when it's necessary (it rarely is).
Later, in my kernel compile, I turned on a compilation flag because I knew that a warning (that failed the build due to -Werror) was completely inaccurate. Good luck doing this if you don't know what's a compilation flag, and good luck doing it safely if you're not sure what the warning means and if it is really safe to override it (it often isn't).
If you want to make a ROM and be efficient about it, I think the two most important skills (in order of importance) are the ability to use git and to solve problems. Without a minimum of source control ease, it will be a pain in the ass to add features to your mods or to keep track of changes efficiently (especially when it comes the time to branch off releases and what not). Problem solving is what you do whenever stuff that should work doesn't work. And it's always hard because if it wasn't hard it would be documented already so you wouldn't have the problem.
If you want to build FEATURES for a mod (that is, not repack what others have written), then yes you will need programming knowledge. Java, C and probably C++. Mostly Java for user facing stuff.
great post gparent... that was a wonderful breakdown of how ROM making works... if it's all true (which it sounds like it), then this might be a bit more than i can chew lol... i'm still willing to see someone in action do these things so i have a better understanding of how to put things together and maybe one day i'll take a stab at building my own ROM!!
gparent said:
24GB of RAM.
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Click to collapse
:what: wow, lol
If any other devs come by I'd love to know what setups you guys use for developing too.
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