Has Motorola 'optimized' the Tegra 2 processor? - Atrix 4G General

Hey there,
I was curious to know if Motorola has done anything that could optimize (read: cripple) the Tegra 2 processor and if the near future custom ROMs will be able to further optimize (read: fix) them?
I ask because I frequently watch reviews of the ASUS Transformer, a tegra 2 powered tablet with 10.1" screen and it flies with honeycomb! I also read somewhere about tegra 2 possibly powering future Netbooks with Windows 8 and wonder why the hell my phone feels like any other phone!
It's fluid, but so is the nexus S
It's fast, but so is the SGS I
I can only hope at this stage for custom ROMs (specifically AOSP Vanilla ROMs or CyanogenMod 7) to make this phone shine as at the moment I am actually quite disappointed.
Thanks in advance
- DarkRyoushii
EDIT: A second after hitting the post button I realized I was in general and that it should be in Q&A. Mental blank sorry and so mod's can please move the thread if they don't see fit, otherwise it may cause some nice general conversation inb4 flame war

Well, there's not that many apps that can utilize the full power of the tegra 2, but if you check out the tegrazone games, you'll see what the processor's all about. Also, the atrix bootloader will be unlocked soon, allowing for even more optimization and speed with custom roms.
Sent from my Gingerblurred Atrix

DarkRyoushii said:
Hey there,
I was curious to know if Motorola has done anything that could optimize (read: cripple) the Tegra 2 processor and if the near future custom ROMs will be able to further optimize (read: fix) them?
I ask because I frequently watch reviews of the ASUS Transformer, a tegra 2 powered tablet with 10.1" screen and it flies with honeycomb! I also read somewhere about tegra 2 possibly powering future Netbooks with Windows 8 and wonder why the hell my phone feels like any other phone!
It's fluid, but so is the nexus S
It's fast, but so is the SGS I
I can only hope at this stage for custom ROMs (specifically AOSP Vanilla ROMs or CyanogenMod 7) to make this phone shine as at the moment I am actually quite disappointed.
Thanks in advance
- DarkRyoushii
EDIT: A second after hitting the post button I realized I was in general and that it should be in Q&A. Mental blank sorry and so mod's can please move the thread if they don't see fit, otherwise it may cause some nice general conversation inb4 flame war
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To answer your question, no, they have not.
However, in the gingerbread update we'll be seeing performance boosts up to 20% (fps wise). So they're optimizing it more and more with each update. I expect it still wont be fully optimized in 2.3.3. 2.3.4 will probably touch it up a bit. And if motorola decides to bring ice cream sandwich to the atrix, I expect it will be fully optimized in that update. If they decide not to, it will still run pretty dam well on gingerbread, and we can use custom bootloaders and kernels by then (since moto is unlocking the bootloader in 2.3.3.).
Regards

it kind of depends what you intend to do sometimes.
tegra 2 AFAIK isn't completely adobe flash
http://phandroid.com/2011/06/15/qua...re-tegra-2-for-flash-content-supremecy-video/
but tegra 2 is optimized for games that were made using nvidia's gaming engines, which look amazing and run incredibly smooth.
until apps can take full advantage of dual core, i doubt it'll ever be optimized

Related

Honeycomb

Okay so I know we haven't even gotten gingerbread yet but I was just wondering if the n1 would have the hardware specs for honeycomb. Thoughts anyone?
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
skunz35 said:
Okay so I know we haven't even gotten gingerbread yet but I was just wondering if the n1 would have the hardware specs for honeycomb. Thoughts anyone?
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No it doesn't.
Actually, who the hell would know? But if the Nexus One has a debilitating bottle neck, it's the GPU. When the original Droid from 2009 beats you, you got a problem. If Honeycomb finally brings GPU acceleration (that's if 2.3 doesn't) along with a ton of intense UI stuff, the Nexus One might lag behind.
I hate to read that I hoped my n1 would never turn into one of those old dusty android phones that falls behind on updates
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
Since we don't even know the spec requirements for Gingerbread are, how would anyone know what Honeycomb requires?
I thought we knew a little bit about it, especially after all these rumors about it running on the n1 already
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
Of course it does. What do you think Google is testing it on? You know the Nexus One is their development phone, right?
mortzz said:
Of course it does. What do you think Google is testing it on? You know the Nexus One is their development phone, right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They are testing 2.3 on the Nexus One (and of course the Nexus S). Honeycomb seems to be a tablet OS, but even if it isn't, what makes you believe that they aren't focusing on their new in house phone, the Nexus S?
We'll skip honeycomb and go straight to icecream
Award Tour said:
They are testing 2.3 on the Nexus One (and of course the Nexus S). Honeycomb seems to be a tablet OS, but even if it isn't, what makes you believe that they aren't focusing on their new in house phone, the Nexus S?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Development for Honeycomb existed before the Nexus S.
First thing guys, Nexus One will get honeycomb, no the gpu isnt ****ty its way better than the droid 2009, Nexus One scores better on 3d. Yes Nexus one has the specs for honeycomb, IMO even G1 will get gingerbread and might get honeycomb as we already have the drivers for it working on the 2.6.35 kernel. Nexus One will be supported beyond honeycomb as 1ghz processor is not ****ty in a smartphone. Even with the upcoming of the dual core processor, single core 1 ghz will not be obsolete. About the gpu, the drivers are improving day by day and it supports open gl 2.0 and its time since open gl 3.0 lands on mobile devices. Until 3.0 stuff starts appearing Nexus One will continue to be a good phone. It will become a G1 the day open gl 3.0 starts appearing and along with it all other devices g2 etc will become a overclocked g1. Nexus S might not be the new dev phone, u have no confirmations, it might be like the HTC magic, the flagship phone for 1.5 or Droid the flagship phone for 2.0. Look at the facts and understand wats in there before caring for such stuff, will honecomb come, will icecream or whatever come. If its in the AOSP it will sure boot on ur Nexus and will boot on ur G1 and i suspect it might slow down on the G1 etc after gingerbread
charnsingh_online said:
First thing guys, Nexus One will get honeycomb, no the gpu isnt ****ty its way better than the droid 2009, Nexus One scores better on 3d. Yes Nexus one has the specs for honeycomb, IMO even G1 will get gingerbread and might get honeycomb as we already have the drivers for it working on the 2.6.35 kernel. Nexus One will be supported beyond honeycomb as 1ghz processor is not ****ty in a smartphone. Even with the upcoming of the dual core processor, single core 1 ghz will not be obsolete. About the gpu, the drivers are improving day by day and it supports open gl 2.0 and its time since open gl 3.0 lands on mobile devices. Until 3.0 stuff starts appearing Nexus One will continue to be a good phone. It will become a G1 the day open gl 3.0 starts appearing and along with it all other devices g2 etc will become a overclocked g1. Nexus S might not be the new dev phone, u have no confirmations, it might be like the HTC magic, the flagship phone for 1.5 or Droid the flagship phone for 2.0. Look at the facts and understand wats in there before caring for such stuff, will honecomb come, will icecream or whatever come. If its in the AOSP it will sure boot on ur Nexus and will boot on ur G1 and i suspect it might slow down on the G1 etc after gingerbread
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
YEAH! what he said
Sent from my Google Phone
Honeycomb requires a core i7 5ghz processor 6gb ddr4 ram ..... I heard about this from my friend that works at google.... weird thing about him is that he says that he wants honeycomb all the time....
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
So now that Gingerbread has been released on a phone....
What say you about :
1) The Nexus S phone with Gingerbread
2) Honeycomb and the Nexus One
going_home said:
So now that Gingerbread has been released on a phone....
What say you about :
1) The Nexus S phone with Gingerbread
2) Honeycomb and the Nexus One
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. I thinks its obvious that development has now shifted to the Nexus S.
2. We've now seen some glimpses of honeycomb and it looks to be the release with the UI overhaul - even stated by Andy Rubin at dive into mobile. The smooth orientation change animation also makes me believe that Honeycomb finally brings full HW acceleration. Nothing is known for sure but considering the shift in attention, the very weak GPU and HW acceleration, Honeycomb is not a absolute given.
Sent using Tapatalk
Award Tour said:
1. I thinks its obvious that development has now shifted to the Nexus S.
2. We've now seen some glimpses of honeycomb and it looks to be the release with the UI overhaul - even stated by Andy Rubin at dive into mobile. The smooth orientation change animation also makes me believe that Honeycomb finally brings full HW acceleration. Nothing is known for sure but considering the shift in attention, the very weak GPU and HW acceleration, Honeycomb is not a absolute given.
Sent using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The GPU is more than powerful enough to display a few triangles on the screen for the UI. The only time you will see the GPU dragging down the phone would be full 3D environments like games.
Clarkster said:
The GPU is more than powerful enough to display a few triangles on the screen for the UI. The only time you will see the GPU dragging down the phone would be full 3D environments like games.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some quick things I noticed between the Nexus One/EVO (have both now and are similar) and Nexus S.
1. The 3D view in maps is much smoother in the Nexus S. The Adreno 200 can still perform admirably(~20-30 FPS) but when you compare it to a more capable GPU you realize that it can not perform at 100% (~60 FPS) and is already struggling.
2. Pretty much any live wallpapers will lag up the home screen, some more than others. This isn't the case with the newer GPUs.
3. The same thing that happens with the 3D view in maps happens in the 3D gallery. It runs okay (20-30 FPS) but when you compare it to a newer phone like the Nexus S it runs so much more smoother (~60 FPS). Even worse I experience severe choppiness (~10FPS) when there's a lot of photos and I do something simple like popping up a menu or a info modal. This point is especially important since everything I read references the 3D gallery app as a HW accelerated app.
I could very well be proven wrong by Google; I'm just point out some observations I made.
Award Tour said:
Some quick things I noticed between the Nexus One/EVO (have both now and are similar) and Nexus S.
1. The 3D view in maps is much smoother in the Nexus S. The Adreno 200 can still perform admirably(~20-30 FPS) but when you compare it to a more capable GPU you realize that it can not perform at 100% (~60 FPS) and is already struggling.
2. Pretty much any live wallpapers will lag up the home screen, some more than others. This isn't the case with the newer GPUs.
3. The same thing that happens with the 3D view in maps happens in the 3D gallery. It runs okay (20-30 FPS) but when you compare it to a newer phone like the Nexus S it runs so much more smoother (~60 FPS). Even worse I experience severe choppiness (~10FPS) when there's a lot of photos and I do something simple like popping up a menu or a info modal. This point is especially important since everything I read references the 3D gallery app as a HW accelerated app.
I could very well be proven wrong by Google; I'm just point out some observations I made.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, that's exactly what I mean. Everything you mention are full 3D apps that would tax the GPU a lot more than simple hardware acceleration for the 2D Android interface.
So if they rewrote everything in the style of the Gallery, it would be a problem, if they just used the GPU to accelerate the 2D interface elements such as transitions, the scrolling, or the web browser it should be perfectly fine.

[Q] The Tab and the future

Hey
First of i would like to say that i have been reading on xda since the old winmo days where i rooted and customized my phones. Now it is my time to write my first post here, which i have close to doing many times, im from Denmark by the way.
Not long ago i sold my beloved Htc hd2, which i had running Android, and i bought the Nokia N8 due since i am heavy on the music and photos. My plan was to get a 7 inch tablet with android for the rest of my needs, which the N8 could not for fill, and even though i had read some places that the tab was slower than one would expect i got myself a used one ( like new) for about half the retail prize.
Now i must say that i am really bugged out about this Tab, it is super slick, the screen and the form factor is nice, the internals are great ( much the same as the new google developer phone, that should be good?) but still this thing runs poorly on froyo 2.2. Really i dont see people saying this is acceptable, since i really dont think it is, i dont mean to flame, since i love android and phones in generel, but even my Htc hd2 had smoother performance than the tab, i find that hard to be true.
It is not slow in generel use, its proberly about what a galaxy s with stock would be, but in things such as the web browser, which should be essensial for a tablet, the galaxy tab really sucks, it is so bad that my nokia n8 with opera mobile nearly handles the web better, and thats really saying something! I tryed about all browsers in the android markedplace and ofcourse one can find a much better one than the stock ( of course you have to turn flash off, even through i think it is a shame)
I ended up using Opera Mobile since it is by far the fastest, it seems to me through that its not running the native res of the tab, could i be right?, is it true that some apps will show fullscreen without being the full res of the tab? i looked allover the web for days trying to get a grip of things without luck, really hope to get some answers
Now what would love to learn some more about would be the future prospects of the Galaxy tab, Is it in the hands of many developers?, will we see custom roms? (since i am not much for stock and touchwizz). Can we expect the Tab to be get much faster, should it not have the same or similar performances as the Nexus S or Galaxy S?
A final thing that i was wondering was about the res of the tabs screen. Is that whats coursing the troubles, the lagg? is that what makes it slow someplaces and makes the webbrowser work like a windows mobile 6.5 stock browser (or worse )
The reason why i am thinking that now is that i just read on Engadget that the Galaxy tab 2 will have Tegra 2 and that it seems very likely that Tegra 2 will be the processor in allot of gingerbread android tablet. Is the hummingbird to slow to handle higher resolution screens? (I really, REALLY hope that is not the case)
Maybe someone with a Archos 101 could prove me wrong (or another android tablet with higher res)???
Well thats it for me, really hope to get some answers since i know this is the best place to ask this sort of questions!
i'm on JM6 and somehow i still dont get what people say about silkky or buttery smooth >.<
mine is kinda laggy (still), and the stock browser gets laggy too when get scrolled up or down, i'm going back to miren browser
i do love putting widget though in my screen, but when i see homescreen post, some of them got a lot of widget too
wonder what's wrong with mine
already using launcher pro, better in term of scrolling than touchwiz with lots of pages (App Drawer)
but scrolling screen still gives me lag
quoting everybody else, after tegra 2 maybe there will be a tegra 3 or whatsoever so if you wait and wait, you'll wait for the rest of your life
i'm jumping on the wagon here, and i'm pretty satisfied actually, but since this is my 1st android phone, i have nothing to compare
gingerbread is definitely come to us , so i dont really care if the requirements need tegra 2
if my tab can handle it, so rock on, if it cant, then just wait for another device capable of gingerbread and sell this one
but since nexus S is using the same 1ghz and using gingerbread also, i dont think tegra 2 is necessary for it
maybe for honeycomb, we'll never know
keep crossing ur finger ^^
Thanks for your quick response. I hope your right with the requirements since it really makes sense that the nexus s would be apple to opgrade.
To me miren Browser is very laggy i really want to use it just don't run smoothly. Thinking about trying flashing one of the roms out there maybe I should wait for a official.
It's not the processor, it's the OS! and Gingerbread aint gonna fix it because it aint designed for tablets. Honeycombe is 'supposed' to be designed for use with tablets so you'll have to wait until 3Q 2011.
I don't know why people are surprised when they realise this as 'sticky', 'laggy', 'freezing' were words all mentioned in every review i've ever read about the tab.
Unless of course you only read Samsungs own review which would be slightly bias.
simon2901 said:
[...]
The reason why i am thinking that now is that i just read on Engadget that the Galaxy tab 2 will have Tegra 2 and that it seems very likely that Tegra 2 will be the processor in allot of gingerbread android tablet. Is the hummingbird to slow to handle higher resolution screens? (I really, REALLY hope that is not the case)
Maybe someone with a Archos 101 could prove me wrong (or another android tablet with higher res)???
[...]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I once had a Toshiba Folio 100 with a Tegra 2 processor (for 5 days ) and it was just as fast/slow as the Tab. Don't know if Gingerbread is going to make the nvidea processor perform a lot better. As far as I know it is a driver thing.
Except for the browser, I think the Tab is fast enough for me.
This performance thing is relative. For example simon2901 you said htc hd2 has better android performance. I have both tab and hd2 now, nearly tried every android build for hd2 but cant find anything that has the performance that makes me feel really usable. But you think the opposite and this shows how relative this thing can be.
I flashed my tab to jm6 as Justin^Tan and i am agree with him. People say it is silky or very smooth but i all can say is it is smoother then my stock rom. Another proof of how this can be relative.
And i agree with appleflap except browser tab is enough for me too. Browser is enough in most cases for me too but when i browse a fully loaded page with flash it really is a pain.
As from the Gingerbread i only expect is make power drain of some apps more reasonable.
It's the OS... I come from an OS for which bloggers like to make fun (WM 6.5.5), however the custom ROMs for my TP2 were in the end quite fast. And I feel like I had more functionalities
This has nothing to do with Samsung's hardware. The Hummingbird is actually as (more) powerful as what you find in the iPad (And we have more memory with our Tab)
If I were you I would not expect too much from Gingerbread. Doesn't look like much more than a minor upgrade with a few tweaks. Quite different from the move from 2.1 to 2.2 let's put our hope sin Honeycombs...
It's kind of normal, it's a young OS and to be honest it's impressive to see the work that has been accomplished since the first versions of android. Given its quick growth we can hope to see more and more good apps and hopefully improved support for custom ROMs. That said teh Tab doesnt seem so popular among modders and chefs (maybe because of the price ? Or just because Clockwork seems more difficult to develop ?) so I ma not sure we can hope that much for the future for us
Gingerbread actually does have some performance improvements imho. Running it on my nexus one and the screen transitions have improved over Froyo (dare I say - as silky smooth as on the ipad? ). So I would expect the Tab to feel a bit slicker too once it gets some Gingerbread love. Personally, I'm not finding the Tab to be sluggish at all. Running Launcher Pro, JM6 firmware, Miren browser, a few widgets, tons of apps, no live wallpaper, and it's all very smooth.
Jm 6 is that a custom rom or just a minor update, how does it compare to stock, since mine certainly not smooth with miren. I laggs so much only opera is useable
Sent from my GT-P1000 using XDA App
simon2901 said:
Jm 6 is that a custom rom or just a minor update, how does it compare to stock, since mine certainly not smooth with miren. I laggs so much only opera is useable
Sent from my GT-P1000 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
JM6 is a Euro firmware that's been posted in the dev section here. I'm not sure it improves performance compared to stock, but then I flashed this pretty much the same day as I got the Tab so can't really compare . I believe it has some performance improvements with the stock browser, but I prefer Miren anyway. I really don't see any lagging with Miren, or at least none that I can't attribute to poor wifi connections etc. It's certainly way slicker than the stock browser. The pinch to zoom font rendering on stock is appalling whereas on Miren it preserves quality. Not tried Opera on the Tab though I hear it's fast...
Have you tried using a different launcher than stock Touchwiz? Launcher Pro or ADW should both give you improvements in performance.
That so many people's first experiences with it are probably as a demo unit, I can see why they say it doesn't feel as smooth as an iPad.
Aye, you can swap launchers and tweak settings.
But most stores have them running loaded up with widgets, running some livewallpaper, and touchwiz. It IS jerky. Or rather, not as smooth as the iPad.
Ok, so the job still gets done, and as a techy myself, I'm happy with what's doable, but that perception amongst most users is that it's not as smooth as it could be seems to be an obvious win if they can sort it out.
Even on the Tab, bringing the Notifiction bar down; sure it's fast enough, but it doesn't animate as it scrolls down (though if it did, personally I'd want an option to turn that off so it insta dropped!).
That all the hardware coming out now has pretty decent openGL support now, I can see that'll be the main thing in future UI improvements, moving more of it to hardware acceleration. I get a feeling that it's all being done in software.
It can only get better from here. A bit of polish on the first thing most users will see will be hugely beneficial later.
I find almost all of the above judgements entirely false. The OS workd perfectlyt for me without any lag or any kind of lag fixes. Im on JK5.
All it takes is a few shrewd decisions on the software that you use with the OS. My browser doesnt lag - I use the Fennec nighly builds which are silky smooth with opengl rendering and without.
I have removed bloatware and services that clog up the purity of googles stock 2.2.
I do use a task manager to kill certain services on a selewctive basis.
I get 2 days light use out of it, which is just fine!
And there is never any lag anywhere.
Now i must say that i am really bugged out about this Tab, it is super slick, the screen and the form factor is nice, the internals are great ( much the same as the new google developer phone, that should be good?) but still this thing runs poorly on froyo 2.2. Really i dont see people saying this is acceptable, since i really dont think it is, i dont mean to flame, since i love android and phones in generel, but even my Htc hd2 had smoother performance than the tab, i find that hard to be true.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is acceptable.
There, I said it. I find it to be perfectly smooth, not sure why you're having a problem with it.
Use DolphinHD as the browser as it offers far more functionality than the default, and use ADW or LauncherPro as the homescreen as they both offer more functionality and better performance than the default.
As mentioned, gingerbread will offer a performance increase, but it's unlikely to be significant. It's entirely possible that Samsung will never port Honeycomb to the tab as they'll want to use it as a selling point for the Galaxy Tab 2 when it eventually comes out (and who knows when that'll be), the future is most likely going to come from custom ROMs if you want to improve the device as it stands.
I always purchase hardware with what CAN be done with it in mind, not what MIGHT be done to it in the future. Hoping for upgrades is a waste of energy, if you don't like the hardware in its initial state, or a state that you can transform it to straight away (rooting it, flashing already available ROMs etc) then don't purchase it, simple as that.
knightnz said:
As mentioned, gingerbread will offer a performance increase, but it's unlikely to be significant. It's entirely possible that Samsung will never port Honeycomb to the tab as they'll want to use it as a selling point for the Galaxy Tab 2 when it eventually comes out (and who knows when that'll be), the future is most likely going to come from custom ROMs if you want to improve the device as it stands.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, by the time the Galaxy Tab 2 comes out, I would think Samsung would stop officially selling the Galaxy Tab 1 so it wouldn't matter if the Tab1 had Honeycomb or not. Its' not like it would be cutting into Galaxy Tab 2 sales.
well im glad some have good experiences with the web and smoothness of the device, i think i forgot to say that i am currenty on stock rom as i bought it, i read that there is some good performance improvements in the leaked firmware updates, still i would wait rooting, doing all that stuff untill things settle down a bit, it all seems confusing to me atm ( maybe it just is more complicated compared to winmo, htc hd2).
Well reading about the newer firmware out there got me in a better mood, knowing that samsung knows that things are not right yet is very comforting, i mean, i would assume all tabs sold in Denmark have the same firmware as mine, and that means bad performance compared to even the galaxy s, that is not acceptable, not at all.
Saying that this is a phone os and so on and therefore things dont run as expected. is neither acceptable since it should not run worse on a bigger device, i mean android do not discriminate? I am not looking for Ipad performance, since i got one in the household, and i still prefer using the tab, even though browsing is better on Safari (Flash dont work properly atm, rather just use the new youtubeclient, which i enjoy except the quality should be higher( proberly will be in time)
It is great to read your comments, gotta love xda
even if they stop selling galaxy tab 1, if they did release honeycomb into tab 1, people would hold onto their tab 1 if there's no significant upgrade on hardware
but if they dare only giving honeycomb onto tab 2, some people would definitely jump onto tab 2 for sure
It is never ending search for perfection that does not exist.
Something will come tomorrow with better CPU/GPU/screen.....
My experience is good enough. I turned of animation - major cause of lags, left one widget. Everything works just fine for my taste.
Hmm well is that fine Having to turn of animations and not use widgets? i just hope we will see custom roms with newer versions. What firmware v. are you using?
I'm really thinking about trying newer builds
Sent from my GT-P1000 using XDA App
I still don't get the "lag"that everyone is noticing.I'm using dolphin HD and it's perfectly smooth for me. I did root and lagfix, not sure if that is the difference.
paulshields said:
Gingerbread actually does have some performance improvements imho. Running it on my nexus one and the screen transitions have improved over Froyo (dare I say - as silky smooth as on the ipad? ). So I would expect the Tab to feel a bit slicker too once it gets some Gingerbread love. Personally, I'm not finding the Tab to be sluggish at all. Running Launcher Pro, JM6 firmware, Miren browser, a few widgets, tons of apps, no live wallpaper, and it's all very smooth.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cool good to know about the perf improvement
Sad to see the ipad is still "the" reference

The future of the Nexus S

Every day new smartphones come out. Faster phones. Better phones. Slicker phones. Especially since Google introduced Android, the smartphone market has got a big boost. Before you know it, your o so special phone isn't so special anymore. You are getting more and more jealous, and then you can't resist anymore. After using phone 1.0 for half a year, you decide to buy phone 2.0, which is faster, better and slicker.
This is probably a recognizable story for some people. Still having the same phone after two years is not done. Besides, getting jealous is inevitable. The trick as a manufacturer is to create a smartphone that is special enough to last even if there are other phones that are faster, better and slicker. Inventing such feature is very hard. If you bring a phone on the market with a dual-core processor today, you can't expect it to be special after a year.
Remaining special is a very common problem for smartphones. You can't prevent phones from getting more advanced technology, but you can try to delay the 'aging' for as long as possible. People will always be complaining though. And within this forum, I've seen this attitude more than ever. For the Nexus S, the 'aging' seems to begin even before the phone is for sale. A 1Ghz processor isn't very special when dual-core's are lurking around the corner. Therefore, the most common question on this forum is 'which phone is better, the Nexus S or ...?' The snag is to buy a smartphone that will last as long as possible. This topic is about the question how long the Nexus S will last.
Faster
Speed is the most important feature of a smartphone. We don't want lag. We want fluent animations, fast multi-touching and smooth browsing. The 1Ghz processor in the Nexus S is certainly not new. In fact, the Nexus One even had a 1Ghz processor, although that was a Snapdragon, and not a Hummingbird. Where the processor in the Nexus One was something new, in the Nexus S it is not so special anymore. Yet the Nexus S is very fast, certainly faster than the Nexus One. It is the fastest device on the market, for the moment at least.
This year will bring us a lot of dual-core phones. Will the Nexus S be outrunned? I don't think so. It is already fast. There is no feature that really needs a stronger processor. Maybe battery-life will be improved with dual-core, but regarding speed, I am not worried. The only thing you need a better processor for, is games. It is going the same way as it did with computers. You don't need quad-core to browse on the web, use Google Maps or edit a Word document. The only reason computers are getting faster and faster is because of the gaming industry. It will go the same way with smartphones. I personally don't need to play big games on my phone. Why would I want that? The screen is too small, and a touchscreen isn't very gaming-friendly. Besides, I have a Xbox 360 at home. I only want to play games like Angry Birds, and Worms on my smartphone. Games you can play in the bus, train or while waiting.
I would rather see every single flash game on the internet playable on my smartphone, then better processors to be able to play games that are more fun to play on my Xbox 360. At the moment there are no features that need a dual-core processor, at least not for me.
Better
You can't be special with speed. If you bring out a 2Ghz dual-core device, you can be sure that within a couple of months somebody else will also bring a 2Ghz dual-core smartphone on the market. An option is to invent your own screen. Samsung has got his 'Super AMOLED', for example, and Apple got the 'Retina' display.
The Super AMOLED on the Nexus S is pretty good. Vibrant, high-contrast colours appeal to a lot of people. Sure, there are some (including me) who like the sharper and more realistic LCD, but you can't say Super AMOLED isn't beautiful. The Nexus S has actually two versions, also one with Super Clear LCD. This is nothing more than a pimped S-LCD, but it's pretty nice, looking at the Samsung Wave II.
But new displays continue to be invented. Super AMOLED plus is coming, as is Sony's 'Reality Display' with Bravia technology, and LG comes with the crystal clear (at least, that is what they claim)
NOVIA display. Whether these displays are really that nice remains to be seen. You can name it whatever you want, in most technologies I don't see much difference.
Is there any threat for the Nexus S regarding the display? Not more than for any other device. The Super AMOLED and the Super Clear LCD are both very good displays, and I don't see anything special enough invented in the next two years that makes the display of the Nexus S look rubbish.
Nexus
As already mentioned, more than ever people seem to complain about the Nexus S. Complaining stems from dissapointment. Dissapointment stems from expectations. And the expectations of the Nexus S were pretty high. This was mostly due to the fact that it's a Nexus, an Android's flagship. The Nexus One had the same expectations. At that time, the whole Nexus-line was unknown, but it was known that the Nexus One would be a 'Google phone'. It was assumed that this possible iPhone Killer would have top-notch hardware and would be very special. The Nexus One was a good device indeed, but not so special as previously thought. There is, of course, a small group who loves the Nexus One, and I may be one of them. But it didn't have the kind of specialty that people where hoping for.
Being special doesn't seem to be the point for a Nexus. I think it's supposed to draw a line. A Nexus shows what Android is capable of at the moment of sale, but that doesn't mean that it got to have the latest hardware.
Anyway, the same mistake people made with the Nexus One, is now made with the Nexus S. The expectations where just to high. I don't think you need the latest hardware to make a good device, but if you don't come up with something special, people will be dissapointed.
P.S. I'll finish this topic later
I think you're missing a key point: if you're a device manufacturer, you prefer that people buy your new products every six months rather than every two years. They only make money when you buy a device. Not that I think there's some massive conspiracy to keep phones behind the cutting edge, but if there were some way they could make a phone so fantastic that you'd never want another phone again, I doubt they would want to sell it.
for what i use a phone for, the ns hardware should be fine for quite a while. android software is what i don't want to be outdated on. shouldn't be an issue with the ns.
you forget that those dual core phones wont be out for 3 or 4 months
To me, it seems like you wrote that whole essay trying to justify your purchase.
zorak950 said:
I think you're missing a key point: if you're a device manufacturer, you prefer that people buy your new products every six months rather than every two years. They only make money when you buy a device. Not that I think there's some massive conspiracy to keep phones behind the cutting edge, but if there were some way they could make a phone so fantastic that you'd never want another phone again, I doubt they would want to sell it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not a conspiracy, it's called business sense. There's little money in making and selling a perfect, everlasting product. That is the reason incandescent light bulbs last only 1000 hours and inkjet printers screech to a halt after exactly 5000 pages. It's planned obsolescence.
It's also the reason I went for the Nexus S. It doesn't come with planned obsolescence. Google will keep the updates coming much longer than any manufacturer or carrier. If Samsung had updated my I5700 Spica to Android 2.2, I wouldn't have bought the Nexus S. I would even have been willing to pay for the OS update.
Mokurex said:
To me, it seems like you wrote that whole essay trying to justify your purchase.
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Click to collapse
To me, it seems like you're trolling.
shrivelfig said:
To me, it seems like you're trolling.
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Click to collapse
How so? All he does was saying, "Oh there will be phone with better processor & display than the nexus s but i don't need it." You might not want a quad core processor in your pc, but is it better than a dual core? Yes. So what's the point of this?
Mokurex said:
How so? All he does was saying, "Oh there will be phone with better processor & display than the nexus s but i don't need it." You might not want a quad core processor in your pc, but is it better than a dual core? Yes. So what's the point of this?
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Click to collapse
Of course it's better, but more important is how MUCH better it is. Where do you need it for?
Oh and by the way, I do not own a Nexus S
I agree that this is a great phone and will be for quite a while. The things that I will be looking for in my next phone, which will likely replace my G2 before this, is a better camera, 5mp is good, but not great, especially once theyre on a computer. I know some people will say well if you want a better camera buy one, and I do have an SLR for real picture taking, but the technology is there to put better cameras in smartphones and Im glad Sony is trying to incorperate that.
Aside from the camera im not sure what else could really make me think 'this phone isnt good enough'. Of course I'll still probably buy 3 more phones this year because I really enjoy trying the latest and greatest in phones but for the average person I think this phone is more than good enough to last the 2 years of their contract.
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App
Androyed said:
Of course it's better, but more important is how MUCH better it is. Where do you need it for?
Oh and by the way, I do not own a Nexus S
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You said yourself that technology is moving at a very fast pace. Even though android right now doesn't take advantage of the these dual core processor, how would you know that google wouldn't optimize future version of android to fully take advantage of the dual core. This would render device with these newer processor, a faster and smoother experience. With that in mind, saying that dual core processor is not needed isn't exactly a future-proof way of thinking.
ps. I apologize for saying that you're trying to justify the purchase if you didn't own one in the first place.
Mokurex said:
You said yourself that technology is moving at a very fast pace. Even though android right now doesn't take advantage of the these dual core processor, how would you know that google wouldn't optimize future version of android to fully take advantage of the dual core. This would render device with these newer processor, a faster and smoother experience. With that in mind, saying that dual core processor is not needed isn't exactly a future-proof way of thinking.
ps. I apologize for saying that you're trying to justify the purchase if you didn't own one in the first place.
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Click to collapse
You are right, of course they will optimize it for dual-core. But the question is, do you need it? If your device is already super fast, will there really be a big difference with dual-core? What is faster than super fast? So, untill they bring out a feature that really needs it (except for games), I don't need dual-core. Because the Nexus S with 1Ghz is already amazingly fast, with virtually no lag.
One thing I see people overlook is that the nexus s is indeed a Google phone with updates straight from Google,all of Google's mobile division is behind this phone aswell as the nexus one. I dont know about you but I'd rather have the support of Google making updates for my phone first and having their Dev teams useing the phone I currently have (nexus s) than having a shiny new LG 2x with the oh so great tegra 2 which is the fist iteratation of dual core tegras and with that a little unproven and android isn't really optimized for it yet so it really has no ground apart from Smoother gaming,video play back and web browsing. In the end I would love a dual core nexus but you have in your hand I phone that can do almost everything your p.c can is that something to complain about?
Androyed said:
You are right, of course they will optimize it for dual-core. But the question is, do you need it? If your device is already super fast, will there really be a big difference with dual-core? What is faster than super fast? So, untill they bring out a feature that really needs it (except for games), I don't need dual-core. Because the Nexus S with 1Ghz is already amazingly fast, with virtually no lag.
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Click to collapse
If the nexus s will always be on 2.3 then yes the hummingbird processor will be plentiful. Did you see the new honeycomb ui that google demoed at CES? That fluid looking ui seems to use more processing power than even the live wallpaper on stock 2.3 launcher. When the nexus s gets honeycomb, will if still be super fast? What about ice cream? If let's say android 4.0 implements more eye candy, im sure it won't be as smooth anymore compare to these new dual core.
This is assuming you won't change phones when these newer version of android comes out.
Mokurex said:
If the nexus s will always be on 2.3 then yes the hummingbird processor will be plentiful. Did you see the new honeycomb ui that google demoed at CES? That fluid looking ui seems to use more processing power than even the live wallpaper on stock 2.3 launcher. When the nexus s gets honeycomb, will if still be super fast? What about ice cream? If let's say android 4.0 implements more eye candy, im sure it won't be as smooth anymore compare to these new dual core.
This is assuming you won't change phones when these newer version of android comes out.
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Click to collapse
You think upgrades only make things more processor intensive? Check out Windows 7 compared to Vista plz.
Jeez guys.
First off. Tegra2 is barely better than the Hummingbird. These aren't super phones. They're just great. Wait for the dual core snap dragon and dual core orion. Then Hummingbird and Tegra2 will both be "weak".
Yes, upgrade from vista to 7 isn't more processor intensive, but we're not talking windows are we? I'm sure all of us here can agree that from the video that google posted, honeycomb will use more cpu than gingerbread.
Btw, we're not arguing, it's called constructive argument =)
Mokurex said:
If the nexus s will always be on 2.3 then yes the hummingbird processor will be plentiful. Did you see the new honeycomb ui that google demoed at CES? That fluid looking ui seems to use more processing power than even the live wallpaper on stock 2.3 launcher. When the nexus s gets honeycomb, will if still be super fast? What about ice cream? If let's say android 4.0 implements more eye candy, im sure it won't be as smooth anymore compare to these new dual core.
This is assuming you won't change phones when these newer version of android comes out.
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Click to collapse
Um that was the tablet version of Honeycomb I am pretty sure the phone version will be different. And I am pretty sure that google is testing all of their future updates on the Nexus S until a new Nexus device is released so all future updates will be optimized for the S...
yea dual-core phones are coming out but so what. I'm good with my nexus S which will do jussst fine. I can guarantee you the next nexus device will pack a dual core processor. Until then, i'll keep nexus S and purchase the G-slate.
Having used the NS for the last 3 weeks, it clearly is a step up from the N1 in terms of performance. The screen is absolutely great and the extra real estate is nice to text on, but my biggest beef with the phone is the build quality.
Clearly, Samsung and Google could have done more. I would have been happy using the NS for the next year if Samsung would have used the material of their new phone, the Infuse, on the NS.
SupaDupaFly24 said:
Um that was the tablet version of Honeycomb I am pretty sure the phone version will be different. And I am pretty sure that google is testing all of their future updates on the Nexus S until a new Nexus device is released so all future updates will be optimized for the S...
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Exactly. And untill then, the Nexus S will be just as good as those dual-core phones, at least for me. Of course, when a new Nexus is released, it will be a lot faster. I think even after a new Nexus is released, the old ones will still get updates for so long they actually 'update' something, and don't make the device slower.
Not only you should buy a Nexus because you get updates fast, or 'normal', as I prefer to say, but also because it just works well. The Nexus S has the same processor as most Android phones, but yet it manages to be a lot faster? It's not magic. It just works well.
Until an android pure phone comes out I don't even look at any of them. I would rather buy a WP7 then a UI and bloatware.

How good is CM9 on the Artix?

In conclusion: Amazing. The work Turl, Jokersax, etc have done here is amazing.
Why do I say this? I just got a One X. And it feels slower than my Atrix
Thanks guys, and I hope it will go on being appreciated by my girlfriend (if I can pry her away from the world of physical keyboards - can't keep using a Desire Z forever!)
Some work to be done here, methinks. Plus, I used to think Sense made Android better. Since Google gave us ICS, it feels like an abomination
Did you get a 4G LTE one? That ones dual core just like the, and the unlocked HSPA+ ones are quad core. At least, thats how I understand it, correct me if im wrong.
But still, it being "just a dual core" shouldnt make it laggy, if anything it should be a similar experience to the Atrix, or more so. Very peculiar.
Anyways, it looks like an awesome phone, maybe you just need some good ole Cyanogen magic to bring it out of its shell.
ripin150 said:
Did you get a 4G LTE one? That ones dual core just like the, and the unlocked HSPA+ ones are quad core. At least, thats how I understand it, correct me if im wrong.
But still, it being "just a dual core" shouldnt make it laggy, if anything it should be a similar experience to the Atrix, or more so. Very peculiar.
Anyways, it looks like an awesome phone, maybe you just need some good ole Cyanogen magic to bring it out of its shell.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Krait CPU in the dual core version is actually super competitive with the Tegra3 quad core version, so if it is slower than the Atrix, more power to the developers!
ripin150 said:
Did you get a 4G LTE one? That ones dual core just like the, and the unlocked HSPA+ ones are quad core. At least, thats how I understand it, correct me if im wrong.
But still, it being "just a dual core" shouldnt make it laggy, if anything it should be a similar experience to the Atrix, or more so. Very peculiar.
Anyways, it looks like an awesome phone, maybe you just need some good ole Cyanogen magic to bring it out of its shell.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you something...
Actually, I would've preferred a Krait-based version (krait owns a9s in terms of performance per core, so an app is going to have to be very well threaded to run faster on Tegra 3... Plus Adreno 225 is a good deal faster than Tegra 3s GPU) but here in the UK we don't have commercially available LTE yet, so mine's the standard Kal-El quad.
It's better now its rooted and running a bloat-free ROM, but it doesn't feel faster than the Atrix tbh. It's nice to finally have a phone with a non-pentile screen though
Azurael said:
Actually, I would've preferred a Krait-based version (krait owns a9s in terms of performance per core, so an app is going to have to be very well threaded to run faster on Tegra 3... Plus Adreno 225 is a good deal faster than Tegra 3s GPU) but here in the UK we don't have commercially available LTE yet, so mine's the standard Kal-El quad.
It's better now its rooted and running a bloat-free ROM, but it doesn't feel faster than the Atrix tbh. It's nice to finally have a phone with a non-pentile screen though
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's so weird to hear that the quad isn't as fast. I know we don't need quad cores at all, its stupid and only for wow factor, but its still weird to hear that. Once more developers get on into the One X though, its going to be sick. A lot of devs are leaving the Desire HD to get the One X.
What is the One X overclock-able to?
Sent from my MB860 using XDA
i wonder if a de-sensed ROM on the oneX would be smoother?
I wouldn't be surprised if next gen smartphones have a core i7 3960X and 24GB of ram.
Hah! You've hit on why I never bought into the hype for the SGSII. I think we've reached a point where, unless Android 5+ has something really heavy in it the OS is no longer bottlenecked by hardware. Dual core 1Ghz+ CPUs are enough for Android to run like butter, and as a result the screen or LTE are the only incentives to upgrade at this point in time.
I hear you on pentile, ever since I read about it I cant un-notice it on greens. But is a screen really worth $200(contract)-$600(no contract)? IMO its not.
Either way, enjoy your One X. Its popularity and HTC's track record with unlockable bootloaders should all but guarantee you'll see stock ICS roms pretty soon.
The HTC One X comes with Sense 4 so it already has ICS.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA
Jotokun said:
Hah! You've hit on why I never bought into the hype for the SGSII. I think we've reached a point where, unless Android 5+ has something really heavy in it the OS is no longer bottlenecked by hardware. Dual core 1Ghz+ CPUs are enough for Android to run like butter, and as a result the screen or LTE are the only incentives to upgrade at this point in time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure are. To be honest, I was perfectly happy with my Atrix. With CM9, it's perfect - incredibly fast, stable and great battery life (at least as far as Android phones go ). The only reason I upgraded was because I came to the end of my contract, and as I have to keep paying the amount I am for the internet coverage anyway, I figured why not renew for another 2 years and grab a new toy with no up-front cost.
I hear you on pentile, ever since I read about it I cant un-notice it on greens. But is a screen really worth $200(contract)-$600(no contract)? IMO its not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, the Atrix PenTile LCD (RGBW) annoyed me far less than the AMOLED (RGBG) on the Desire I had previously - at least with the Atrix arrangement, black on white/white on black are rendered at full resolution, so most text is very sharp, whereas everything but green renders at 1/4 res on the non-super AMOLED!
Either way, enjoy your One X. Its popularity and HTC's track record with unlockable bootloaders should all but guarantee you'll see stock ICS roms pretty soon.
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Click to collapse
Yeah, I think I should be on to a safe bet, the Desire development community is massive, which I always appreciated when I had one And I guess the One X is 2012's Desire... I'm (rather impatiently) looking forward to S-Off, AOSP/CM9 and custom kernels though.
I just need to get used to this size tax that all Android device manufacturers seem to be applying to their high-end phones these days 'Want a powerful phone? Sorry, it's got to be unfathomably gigantic' [it's not the bulk - the One X is lighter and thinner than the Atrix... What really irks me that I can't reach the top corners of the screen whilst holding the phone securely in one hand walking down the road or whatever. But maybe that's just me....]
So even though CM9 is still in alpha, it works great? Is there anything about it that doesn't work?
Sent from my MB860 using XDA
gitman0 said:
So even though CM9 is still in alpha, it works great? Is there anything about it that doesn't work?
Sent from my MB860 using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think video recording works, plus the browser tends to crash if you rotate from portrait to landscape. I now just turn the phone before starting the browser as a matter of habit Hardware video playback/encoding acceleration doesn't yet work, so most flash video at high bitrates is choppy at best, though Youtube works fine, as does local video (the files I tried, anyway). As always for CM roms, Moto webtop doesn't work, although there is a tablet-view based alternative that I think is currently working - it appears this is the route Motorola are going for in their own ICS ROMs anyway, so it will probably be the case for the Atrix too upon release. I don't really know as I've never used it.
But aside from that: yes, it's amazing. Far faster than any Froyo or Gingerbread release I tried in feel. The browser is much faster both in terms of page rendering and scrolling/zooming smoothness. Even complex AJAX web pages scroll and interact smoothly. With Chrome Beta, it's even better! Scrolling and transitions in general are much smoother thanks to the hardware accelerated GUI. To me, the Atrix feels like a whole new phone with ICS. Oh, and I forgot: The battery life is much better with my usage too - I rarely see below about 60% when returning from work these days where as back when I was running CM7, it would often be closer to 30%...
gitman0 said:
So even though CM9 is still in alpha, it works great? Is there anything about it that doesn't work?
Sent from my MB860 using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This thread inspired me to give CM9 a try. It's definitely not ready for prime time. I went back to CM7. The camera didn't work half the time. Video recording doesn't work at all. Can't use tabs in Chrome and it crashed often. No fingerprint unlock which isn't a deal breaker but still a bummer.
yeahmann said:
This thread inspired me to give CM9 a try. It's definitely not ready for prime time. I went back to CM7. The camera didn't work half the time. Video recording doesn't work at all. Can't use tabs in Chrome and it crashed often. No fingerprint unlock which isn't a deal breaker but still a bummer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've used phones with OEM firmware with more bugs
What's up with the camera? I have zero issues with stills... Although the Atrix's camera is so terrible it's not really worth using anyway! (I'm sure the camera on my old Desire was a lot better? As is, obviously, the One X - though even that doesn't compete with the cheapest 'real' camera...)
Personally, I found that despite the bugs, going back to <ICS feels like being in the stone age Scrolling, zooming and the render time for complex pages in the browser is so bad on GB I actually hated browsing the web on it before the (very buggy) early test builds of CM9 came along. You can't even use Chrome on previous versions, so why does that matter? The stock browser is infinitely better on ICS than GB...
All the work these guys have put in to bring us ICS, IMO is incredible. Maybe it's not ready for 'prime time' but I'd hazard a guess that Motorola's initial official releases will likely be just as/more buggy (although maybe in different ways) and probably a hell of a lot slower if previous AOSP/CM vs. Moto ROM rules apply... Having said that, the correct + working video drivers from the Moto release when they drop will likely fix everything that's wrong with CM9 on the Atrix at the moment.
Azurael said:
I'd hazard a guess that Motorola's initial official releases will likely be just as/more buggy
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thats just not realistic...
Sent from my MB860 using XDA
What don't work on CM9 Roms?
gitman0 said:
thats just not realistic...
Sent from my MB860 using XDA
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Why cut off the parenthesis? He said in different ways, which is more than possible
Sent from my MB860 using xda premium
Alcapone263 said:
Why cut off the parenthesis? He said in different ways, which is more than possible
Sent from my MB860 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
because stating that the official release will have as many if not more bugs is not the same as stating it will have different bugs. my argument is against the former. do you really think an official release from motorola, a company that has all the resources they need available to them (including a QA team), would have as many or more bugs than a community-developed ROM, which itself was a best-effort attempt at porting ICS to a platform which did not already have it? i'm sorry, but that is just a brash generalization possibly rooted in some sort of loathsomeness for not having an official ICS release already.
gitman0 said:
because stating that the official release will have as many if not more bugs is not the same as stating it will have different bugs. my argument is against the former. do you really think an official release from motorola, a company that has all the resources they need available to them (including a QA team), would have as many or more bugs than a community-developed ROM, which itself was a best-effort attempt at porting ICS to a platform which did not already have it?
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Click to collapse
Unfortunately, many Android lovers tend to believe community devs can do no wrong and corporate devs are slow and retarded.
If so, then why is dev work SO much better when source code, drivers, and official builds are released?
CM9 will be absolutely beyond amazing once official Atrix ICS is out and drivers/source is out.

What's the obsession with naked/stock Android?

I bought a Nexus 7 for my son and I've been dealing with software issues since day 1. Apps crash regularly, when I hit the home button, many games don't stop (you can hear the music play in the background), web browser stops for 1-3 seconds occasionally, and this morning when I clicked on Settings it was frozen for 10 seconds and came up with "Settings is not responding". Even though I hit "Wait", it rebooted itself.
If I compare this 3-day old device to my highly skinned Samsung Note 10.1, I'd go with the SGN any day, because not one app crash or random reboot happened so far (I've had it for more than a month). Please note that I'm running the exact apps/games on the SGN. When I had a Galaxy Tab 2 10.1" and 7" in the past, the experience was the same (problem free).
The tablet that I had before SGN was a Toshiba Excite 10.1 running a stock ICS (Toshiba only added few of their apps, that was it). It was a nightmare as well. Web browser crash, frozen screen, random reboots. etc. happened all the time.
The root of the problems could be hardware related, but both Nexus/Asus and Toshiba with stock Android had numerous similar issues. At the end of the day, with my limited experience, I'm a non-stock Android believer, not to mention all the extras Samsung built on top of stock Android (e.g., multiscreen, mini apps, etc). Yes, I do understand that updates are delayed with non-stock Android versions, but I'd rather use a problem-free device and wait a little longer for an update.
I agree with you on the Nexus, mine is stock and even launching apps like Wallet my tablet freezes almost everytime. I don't think it's a hardware issue, I think it's more a software issue. As for as the GN101, so far I have found it solid without the need for any ROM changes at all.
The obsession with stock came from a time when devices were underpowered and didn't have enough RAM. Manufacturer overlays really bogged down performance. So the XDA devs went on a quest to offer AOSP/AOKP alternatives. Back then, going naked really did improve device usability.
With quad-core processors and 1.5/2 GB of RAM becoming the new standard the overlays really don't interfere the way they used to. They also add a lot of value with additional audio and video codec support, faster alternative toggles and menus, more functions added to apps (EG: camera), usability features (EG: SmartStay), and better integration between apps which helps people be more productive.
You'll hear people talking about being "bloat free." By the time someone's done loading third party versions (sometimes multiples because one won't work for everything) of apps that come pre-installed they have more crap on their device than the OEM version. I truly wonder if a lot of people even use their devices to do anything. You see post after post about how lag free their transitions are but you never hear them talk about actually using any of the apps they have installed or trying to accomplish a specific task.
As for your situation with the N7 I think a lot of the issues are h/w related. You don't hear people on the SGS3 or Note II forum running in to similar issues. There are h/w related issues on Asus' premium tablets so if anything their budget tablet shouldn't be expected to perform any better.
Mainstream shoppers like overlays. In the Apple case it came out that Samsung sold only 500K Galaxy Nexi. That's a pretty embarrassing number considering all the chatter about "pure Google" and the cult following Nexus devices are supposed to have.
Definitely not SW issue. Vanilla android is as stable as it gets. It can only get worse from there. The nexus 7 is an Asus device, which are known for i/o issues as described. The reason aosp is always 'buggy' on (insert device) is because alot of modifications are needed to get it running on most devices, making for a possible unstable build. Manufacturer's skins absolutely slow down the device, but with the newest gen dual/quad core processors, the newer devices run pretty darn fast stock...
Try cm10 on the note and you'll see how much more efficient it is... But you'll also see minor issues like camera not working
Sent from my GT-N8013 using xda app-developers app
prenedo said:
Definitely not SW issue. Vanilla android is as stable as it gets. It can only get worse from there. The nexus 7 is an Asus device, which are known for i/o issues as described. The reason aosp is always 'buggy' on (insert device) is because alot of modifications are needed to get it running on most devices, making for a possible unstable build. Manufacturer's skins absolutely slow down the device, but with the newest gen dual/quad core processors, the newer devices run pretty darn fast stock...
Try cm10 on the note and you'll see how much more efficient it is... But you'll also see minor issues like camera not working
Sent from my GT-N8013 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess I don't understand the point "Vanilla android is as stable as it gets........The reason aosp is always 'buggy' on (insert device) is because alot of modifications are needed to get it running on most devices, making for a possible unstable build". If each manufacturer needs to modify it to run it on their device, then which device runs the "vanilla" android?
tenderidol said:
I guess I don't understand the point "Vanilla android is as stable as it gets........The reason aosp is always 'buggy' on (insert device) is because alot of modifications are needed to get it running on most devices, making for a possible unstable build". If each manufacturer needs to modify it to run it on their device, then which device runs the "vanilla" android?
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Click to collapse
Nexus devices. Manufacturers add more functionality and appearance to stock android (ie, TW, sense, blur) which present more of an opportunity for errors/bugs.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app
prenedo said:
Nexus devices. Manufacturers add more functionality and appearance to stock android (ie, TW, sense, blur) which present more of an opportunity for errors/bugs.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app
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Click to collapse
It's ironic, because I'm having issues with a Nexus device while the SGN with Touchwiz works without any issues.
tenderidol said:
It's ironic, because I'm having issues with a Nexus device while the SGN with Touchwiz works without any issues.
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Click to collapse
The theory of Nexus is much different than the practice. Different radios and even bands make it as fragmented as a skinned device.
Well I have a note 10.1 and nexus 7. Note is completely stock and runs flawless. My nexus 7 is running stock rom with custom kernel. That runs flawless also. Even before custom kernel, superstock, it ran extremely well without any issues for me. My nexus 7 never had issues OP described. Nexus 7 is stable as a mofo never had any issue with that Asus tablet. So lets not go there with since its an Asus, its automatically bad/defective or whatever..lol.
I also have a SG3 which is great superStock.
tenderidol said:
I bought a Nexus 7 for my son and I've been dealing with software issues since day 1. Apps crash regularly, when I hit the home button, many games don't stop (you can hear the music play in the background), web browser stops for 1-3 seconds occasionally, and this morning when I clicked on Settings it was frozen for 10 seconds and came up with "Settings is not responding". Even though I hit "Wait", it rebooted itself.
If I compare this 3-day old device to my highly skinned Samsung Note 10.1, I'd go with the SGN any day, because not one app crash or random reboot happened so far (I've had it for more than a month). Please note that I'm running the exact apps/games on the SGN. When I had a Galaxy Tab 2 10.1" and 7" in the past, the experience was the same (problem free).
The tablet that I had before SGN was a Toshiba Excite 10.1 running a stock ICS (Toshiba only added few of their apps, that was it). It was a nightmare as well. Web browser crash, frozen screen, random reboots. etc. happened all the time.
The root of the problems could be hardware related, but both Nexus/Asus and Toshiba with stock Android had numerous similar issues. At the end of the day, with my limited experience, I'm a non-stock Android believer, not to mention all the extras Samsung built on top of stock Android (e.g., multiscreen, mini apps, etc). Yes, I do understand that updates are delayed with non-stock Android versions, but I'd rather use a problem-free device and wait a little longer for an update.
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Try vanilla android on a samsung device like the galaxy nexus and you will have a very different experience. Asus devices are fine once some tweaks have been made, but my tf300 was extremely sluggish on stock. Just got the note and it blows the doors off my tf300 in every category except the note does not have jellybean yet and the tf300 does.
demandarin said:
My nexus 7 never had issues OP described.
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Here's what I've learned by researching IO on Asus' tablets. People who have no issues and people *****ing about lag etc. are both right. It depends on what you're doing with the device. People with a lot of syncs running in the background or that have multiple apps or a single multithreaded app going that create concurrent processes are more likely to experience issues. Here's a post from someone I know well talking about it. I actually shipped him his N7 from the States. If he says it lags, it lags. His post is in a 67 page thread aptly entitled "The LAG Thread."
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1776538
There's another recently discovered issue that occurs when available storage drops below 3GB. Performance hits the wall. So one or both are probably causing OP's issues.
http://www.gottabemobile.com/2012/09/17/nexus-7-performance-issues/
Well I have a galaxy nexus and ever since jellybean its smoother than ever, sometimes even better than on my note 10.1 except if its on cm 10
Just look at the size of the ROMs cm10 is 150 mb while for example high on android is 750 mb, there's definitely a difference performance wise
If you ran stock JB on Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1 and then the skinned JB (when it finally drops) and you'd see a difference I'm sure. Not AS much since this tablet is a beast, but you'd see improvements.
If vanilla android was the issue, skinning it could only make it worse. They are still utilizing all of the code of vanilla android, and adding their own stuff to it. That can only bog things down. It does on every device I've ever seen.
Finally, I've never heard or see these issues on the Nexus 7. Sounds like you got a lemon. Everything I've heard is that it's the most fluid tablet to date.
Sent from my EVO using xda app-developers app
PsiPhiDan said:
If you ran stock JB on Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1 and then the skinned JB (when it finally drops) and you'd see a difference I'm sure. Not AS much since this tablet is a beast, but you'd see improvements.
If vanilla android was the issue, skinning it could only make it worse. They are still utilizing all of the code of vanilla android, and adding their own stuff to it. That can only bog things down. It does on every device I've ever seen.
Finally, I've never heard or see these issues on the Nexus 7. Sounds like you got a lemon. Everything I've heard is that it's the most fluid tablet to date.
Sent from my EVO using xda app-developers app
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You should visit the Nexus 7 sub-forum (especially the Lag thread) for an alternate view.
The 'obsession' with AOSP stems from a Linux purity thrust. Most OEMs do NOT release their mods to android back as open source contributions, which technically, under the gnu gpl, they should. Samsung-skinned android OS is kind of like Linux mint as opposed to Linux Fedora. Fedora comes out of the box with ABSOLUTELY NO proprietary software, whereas Linux mint ships with flash, Google search (which is NOT open source). So when you run Konqueror (stock KDE browser) you have to download and choose Google as your search engine. Otherwise, it uses duckduckgo, which I prefer..I use ddg on my android tablets even.... I just don't like my search history being chronicled.
AOSP was started in this spirit, which is why gApps are separate and have to be flashed independedntly. Check out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjaC8Pq9-V0&feature=youtube_gdata_player for more information, and a ton of geeky fun.
GT-P6800
GT-N8013
The 'obsession' is because in the past vanilla Android was clearly faster/more stable than skinned versions. If I compare the Galaxy S to the Nexus S, touchwiz was a slow laggy joke while vanilla Android outperformed it in every way.
Add to that much faster updates, which was much more important as Android matured, and a stellar dev community, and you have a group of people who have preferred Nexus devices over any other.
It has also been easier to flash Nexus devices, and they are virtually impossible to brick. You dont need to use anything like Kies/Odin/Heimdall etc, just install the Android SDK and use fastboot/ADB to set it up, then off you go. Unlocking a bootloader is a single command you use once, and you dont need to flash new bootloaders for updated versions of Android (updating my A500 was a complete pain compared to my Nexus S because of this).
The current generation of Samsung devices are IMO the first gen where Touchwiz works really well. I have absolutely no desire to flash any ROM over the stock Sammy ROM because it works so freaking well. If i get a Note 2 i'm sure it'll be the same, but i am still waiting to see what the new Nexus devices will look like.
I think with the Note 10.1 we have an excellent device that helps us forget just how buggy and crap Touchwiz has been in the past.
poid, most of those problems you mentioned are still true.
Adding the manufacturer's customisations to Android still results in fewer and slower Android OS updates, still results in slower, clunky software (this is not so much a problem on extremely powerful processors like in the Note - more noticeable on slow processors like the Tab 2 - why they downgraded the processor in that I'll never know).
Touchwiz has indeed improved a lot, but the fact that it is a customised version of Android still means that Samsung has more work to do in order to push out upgrades and optimise the new software to run smoothly on the device.
tenderidol said:
It's ironic, because I'm having issues with a Nexus device while the SGN with Touchwiz works without any issues.
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thats not because of vanilla android, its because of asus hw. the galnex with stock jellybean (the kind that it boots with, no cm or aokp) is just as solid as this, and most of the custom roms are as well. the galaxy nexus did not sell many units because not a lot of people know a lot about nexus and the android ecosystem, and it wasnt as hyped with all the commercials and ads as, say the gs2, gs3, or one x.
aletheus said:
The 'obsession' with AOSP stems from a Linux purity thrust. Most OEMs do NOT release their mods to android back as open source contributions, which technically, under the gnu gpl, they should. Samsung-skinned android OS is kind of like Linux mint as opposed to Linux Fedora. Fedora comes out of the box with ABSOLUTELY NO proprietary software, whereas Linux mint ships with flash, Google search (which is NOT open source). So when you run Konqueror (stock KDE browser) you have to download and choose Google as your search engine. Otherwise, it uses duckduckgo, which I prefer..I use ddg on my android tablets even.... I just don't like my search history being chronicled.
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All 100% true. And meaningless to the 95% of Android users not considered "enthusiasts." The SGS2 sold 28MM the Note I 7MM and the SGS3 20MM in 100 days. The GN sold 500K. That kind of tells you what the general device purchaser thinks is important and it isn't AOSP. Performance isn't about h/w or s/w in isolation. The GN has a crappy camera, awful display, and horrible battery life. AOSP and JB or KLP can't fix that. Same thing with the h/w issues on the N7. Samsung's always done a great job of tuning the h/w and s/w on their devices to perform better together. Samsung's stock browsers have always blown away all others because of the h/w acceleration they include. Same thing with the additional codecs they provide for audio and video. It's nice to have options through the devs on XDA but not everyone views their devices as a science project.
MercuryStar said:
poid, most of those problems you mentioned are still true.
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The performance issues are pretty much gone because of more RAM and faster processors. I have a Teg3 One X and I love Sense. The integration between apps makes me more productive and allows me to get stuff done (EG: rejecting a call with a message and adding it as a task to Outlook to follow-up with one swipe) faster than diddling with a bunch of non-integrated third party apps. Since I actually use my devices getting a 1K higher score in AnTuTu or orgasming over screen transitions is less important than what they're capable of actually doing. The price you pay for an overlay is later (if at all) updates but to some that's an OK trade off. Ask the VZW and Sprint GN owners about getting updates on their "pure Google" devices. They may not agree that's a benefit that always works as described.
poid said:
The current generation of Samsung devices are IMO the first gen where Touchwiz works really well. I have absolutely no desire to flash any ROM over the stock Sammy ROM because it works so freaking well.
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I can't root and ROM because of security and registering on foreign GSM networks when I'm traveling so I couldn’t if I wanted to. But I agree with you. The Note and my One X (after the last update) don't leave me wishing I could.
Nexus 7 is very flawed . but not its os
I will be getting my note 10.1 tomorrow or wed at the latest.
I see alot of nexus 7 talk in this thread and thought i would tell my story.
The nexus 7 software is very nice near flawless there is some issues with touch response and dead spots on the screen. The device itself has a huge design flaw . This is caused by two things. Number one being the bezel is to small under the screen . the lip on the left side has been reduced to allow for the digitizer connections this causes either the bezel to warp or the screen to become loose and lift up and move. This movement is causing screens to crack and shatter. There are issues with A Yellowish spots burn in on the screen as well as screen flashing from issues with light sensor calibration. CM 10 Does help with that issue some. but shutting off the sensor. There are people posting about the device making a squeeling sound then just going off and never coming back on Speakers going bad or not working head phone jack not working.. And so on..
I had a nexus pre order it came in with a few of the above issues. I got a advanced replacement had to send it back on the day it arrived because of huge screen issues. Due to the big hassle with trying to get a refund i sent the other back. its been nearly two months They have both devices back and all of my money..
IN SHORT the nexus 7 is plegued with issues if you have one and its working Lucky you.. But there are more bad then good.. it was pushed to market too soon in my opinion.. but the device i had ran very well and fast . its a great size to pack around but not so good for web browsing .screen to small..
Anyway my opinion only read the nexus 7 forum if you feel anything about is wrong . its all there ..
thanks all ... I eagerly await my note 10.1 tablet ..

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