As I presume you all know, lately there have been a verbal fight between our great Devs. Today it grew up in flames. I don't want to quote 'cause there are some curses and insults.
It is not all about it. It is about that we need all of our good devs "to work" for us and bring the best for our phones.
So Jerp & Trip and of course Z we appreciate all of your work. You all are the best and we like to see more and more from the amazing things you create.
Please devs, reconcile each other. We don't want to loose any of you. We need you!
I call everyone to express their feelings about this and let's hope everything will end up in a positive way.
Lets all pay our tribute to T, J & Z. We love you guys!!!
Although I can't see any of us having any real effect on whether the devs make up and play nice, here's my view...
They're all acting like children as far as I'm concerned. "So and so didn't give me credit!" "So and so stole my work!" "So and so blah blah blah."
This entire episode is completely unnecessary. None of the devs have a fully functional ROM, nor do they seem to want to work together to achieve anything of worth. They're more concerned with who's done what and who can get the latest and greatest out first, all the while leaving us a trail of half-arsed ROMs that we have to mix and match to get the best results. To be totally honest here, I haven't bothered with any of the ROMs personally because there so many issues and no one is taking the time to sort them out before running off the be the first to...<insert whatever super epic ROM here>.
This is open source. If the devs aren't capable of understanding that sometimes, you might not be individually thanked, or someone might not point and go "Oh hey look! It's Z! (Or J, or T or L M N O P)". In the end, the goal should be the same. Right now it's not.
My advice, grow up, work with each other and stop worrying about the glamor of it all. In the end, your toilet smells the same (or pretty damn close) to the other guy's.
+1 nekkidtruth - It's all a bit pathetic really. They need to regain their grip on reality.. Individually they're good - clearly better than most... but if they were to actually make some effort to work together then, well, good things would come to pass I'm sure.
They will earn more respect and kudos from achieving something as a team than they will fighting amongst themselves to try to be the first..
Fingers crossed for a positive outcome!
While I'm not entirely sure what's been going on today, I'm of the same opinion as nekkidtruth. The whole X10 development is all over the place and needs some sort of Team working on one ROM. We don't really need the 2.1 variants that are all out there (which seem to me as just 2.1 themed with JIT hashed on).
I don't like this whole closed source kinda feel to the whole thing between the devs either. What's wrong with sticking the sources on something like GIThub and working together to modify, build, compile.. whatever?
It's just my 2 pence worth, which isn't really anything.
You guys totally miss the point and have not done anything that requires long periods of work for a project that requires very specialized knowledge.
Open source DOES NOT mean that anyone can take your work and claim it as theirs. Yes, Android is open source because anyone can take it without paying huge licensing fees and everyone knows that it's maintained by Google Inc.
In the case of the devs here, j & z did work that trip took without giving credit and used it as his own as if he did all the work. J & z always clearly states where he got some code from. In one case j used some code that trip made and gave credit. Once any dev releases a rom, the YES, it's out there in the open for anyone to use, but it's a d-bag move to claim it as all your own work. J & z said that all they wanted was credit and no money eventhough Trip was getting donations. Trip then blew a gasket and here we are today.
Even Glenn Beck has to give credit to Thomas Paine for Common Sense.
I've observed Trip's behavior to be, well, "Trippy", in addition to being completely and utterly ill-mannered. I've also seen trippy [pun intended] users engage other non-trippy users into unnecessary exchanges of abuses and insults, complete with another user handling the PR for 'Trip' in his absence.
Brilliant.
will.m said:
You guys totally miss the point and have not done anything that requires long periods of work for a project that requires very specialized knowledge.
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I didn't miss any point. I call it as I see it. Children in a school yard having a castle building contest trying to build the best/largest castle. This is nothing more than that. Open source is open source, either it's open or it's not. If you can't handle someone else using your work, don't bother. If you feel you absolutely need to be patted on the back every single time someone uses even the tiniest snippet of your code, why bother?
I've worked on plenty of large projects. I've worked along side many people and solo'd as well. The fact of the matter is, they're building ROMs for an open source OS on a phone. Their paths are going to cross. Rather than work together, they'd rather bicker.
Can someone sum up this whole dev beef going on or show me the thread where it went down?
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
nekkidtruth said:
I didn't miss any point. I call it as I see it. Children in a school yard having a castle building contest trying to build the best/largest castle. This is nothing more than that. Open source is open source, either it's open or it's not. If you can't handle someone else using your work, don't bother. If you feel you absolutely need to be patted on the back every single time someone uses even the tiniest snippet of your code, why bother?
I've worked on plenty of large projects. I've worked along side many people and solo'd as well. The fact of the matter is, they're building ROMs for an open source OS on a phone. Their paths are going to cross. Rather than work together, they'd rather bicker.
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So you're fine with plagiarism. Got it. Please send me any and all of your work that I can profit from. I will be sure not to give you any credit whatsoever and call it my own. TIA
edit: It's more than snippets in this case and x10 devs on xda is a small community. There's a difference and you should realize it.
Open source doesn't mean laissez faire. Android is open source; HTC Sense is not. With your rationale, then all the programs on the market should just be renamed and sold without any credits to the original devs.
pcfanboy142 said:
Can someone sum up this whole dev beef going on or show me the thread where it went down?
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
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Trip used some sources from j & z to compile his own rom which he released and got donations for. Z called him out on it and asked him either to take it down or give a credit. Trip then had a meltdown and took his roms down.
Earlier today, trip saw that j had some code of trips in the 2.3.2 rom and called him out on it. J then took the rom down, gave credit, and is uploading his own rom from top to bottom.
If someone's in a mood for some really nice playing devs, just look here and here. That's how I got to know xda-developers.com. You'd be excited how strong the atmosphere in different sections of the same forum can differ
And, surprise: jerpelea also developed there, and as usual he did an incredible job by porting a (almost) fully working X2 ROM to X1
will.m said:
So you're fine with plagiarism. Got it. Please send me any and all of your work that I can profit from. I will be sure not to give you any credit whatsoever and call it my own. TIA
edit: It's more than snippets in this case and x10 devs on xda is a small community. There's a difference and you should realize it.
Open source doesn't mean laissez faire. Android is open source; HTC Sense is not. With your rationale, then all the programs on the market should just be renamed and sold without any credits to the original devs.
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Don't be ridiculous. I said nothing of the sort. If you're going to put words in my mouth, don't bother replying. I simply said it can and does happen and should be expected. If you can't handle that part about "open source", why bother?
nekkidtruth said:
Don't be ridiculous. I said nothing of the sort. If you're going to put words in my mouth, don't bother replying. I simply said it can and does happen and should be expected. If you can't handle that part about "open source", why bother?
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I'm just using your logic brother. Don't get mad at me for following the logical conclusions of what you propose.
Trip was making money off it and you're ok with it because of "open source" fundamentalism, which is bs because it's something you don't even really believe in anyways.
Just because it happens doesn't mean it's ok and should be tolerated by the community.
will.m said:
I'm just using your logic brother. Don't get mad at me for following the logical conclusions of what you propose.
Trip was making money off it and you're ok with it because of "open source" fundamentalism, which is bs because it's something you don't even really believe in anyways.
Just because it happens doesn't mean it's ok and should be tolerated by the community.
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I'm not mad "brother". I just don't see this little high school hissy fit going on between the devs as anyone's fault in particular. They all contributed to what happened. Also, stop putting words in my mouth. Thanks.
has trip written anything of his own, or even finished a rom?
nekkidtruth said:
I'm not mad "brother". I just don't see this little high school hissy fit going on between the devs as anyone's fault in particular. They all contributed to what happened. Also, stop putting words in my mouth. Thanks.
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Then back up what you say with examples and not nebulous platitudes filled with false equivalence and your own hissy fit about a hissy fit.
Z asking for credit IS NOT the same as Trip freaking out about it. All trip had to do was add "thanks to j & z for x."
F this. I'm done with you. It's like talking to a dining room table. Enjoy your hissy fit.
fiscidtox said:
has trip written anything of his own, or even finished a rom?
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Yes, he's written his own stuff, but no, all his roms are in progress.
will.m said:
Then back up what you say with examples and not nebulous platitudes filled with false equivalence and your own hissy fit about a hissy fit.
Z asking for credit IS NOT the same as Trip freaking out about it. All trip had to do was add "thanks to j & z for x."
F this. I'm done with you. It's like talking to a dining room table. Enjoy your hissy fit.
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You're the one throwing a hissy fit Lol.
Besides, I don't need to conform to your opinion on this issue. I have formed my own thank you.
Side note: I've seen Trip thank J & Z so many times. What? Did he forget to do it ONE time? Lol. What a joke.
Trip can take his half a$$ed roms elsewhere since he is obviously the problem here..
Honestly I can't understand how some people use their half-worked ROMs anyway
I either go with full working-stable ROM or just stay with the stock ROM as it seems more stable than their junk ROMs ( yes, I said junk, people here call apps from SE junk, why can't I do the same with half-completed work? ) no offence to anyone
Related
Take a look here . . .
What do you think community? Shun, or wait for a confession/wanna be back talk?
Well I want to know how many of you all who used his roms will continue to if he continues to "make" them or yet he claims he does.
He can go to hell, open source is a beautiful thing and the success of Linux is due at the fact that people all over the world contribute to it and help, not because one asshole is so egotistical he has to steal and try to get credit for **** he hasn't even done.
That's all there needs to be said about it.
Haykuro is clearly a solid individual, a great spirited guy and here to help.
Drizzy? Lets see, shady as ****, egotistical, here for credit and donations of other peoples work.
It's clearly about ethnics and morals.
and to the gentlemen above me people will probably still use his roms, there's nothing like a new dev name in the Android platform, but let's just wait till his roms become malicious and everyone comes crying and a REAL dev such as Hykuro or Cyan has to clean it all up.
G1-evolve said:
Well I want to know how many of you all who used his roms will continue to if he continues to "make" them or yet he claims he does.
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makes me wonder if they were ever his and not someone else. look what happened to haykuro.
its a said day.
I never touched Drizzy's ROM's because of what I've noticed with his support before he skipped scene.
~~Tito~~ said:
Hmm, I have always suspected some ROM releaser to be behind this. Not the ones I deal with but someone lol. If it happens to be Drizzy, I am not surprised.
I came to the scene when most of the dust had already settled and people where moving on, and releasing bigger and greater things. I have always noticed something peculiar about the way Drizzy would get into some kind of quarrel with someone, then it would be a love fest for him, then again with a quarrel, then a Drizzy tribute. Its kind of interesting.
I probably don't know much of the whole situation but that's what I have noticed.
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my thread got moved to here haha.
Why exactly is this topic needed? Keep this discussion in the other thread(s).
King is almost done with his AOSP rom....looks incredible from what i can see...check out his site and go to the forums for more details......
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Hmm... how long til this thread gets closed too?
Hey... This thing makes phone calls too!
JTNiggle said:
Hmm... how long til this thread gets closed too?
Hey... This thing makes phone calls too!
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Yep this is the same guy posting garbage about getting update to GB on his Nexus. I recognize this fool by his exclamation marks.
kamasi36 said:
Yep this is the same guy posting garbage about getting update to GB on his Nexus. I recognize this fool by his exclamation marks.
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Ok so the guy got banned. Does that mean anything related to his work is forbidden on XDA?
Sent while sitting on the toilet.
I'm sure he will charge people to use his work and get support because of course he made it from scratch with no help..
MrDSL said:
I'm sure he will charge people to use his work and get support because of course he made it from scratch with no help..
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this ! <--- THIS !!
I sort of like sense, until the level of the android integration changes, as it's supposed to ˜32 for GB. Last I saw king was sorting it out and testing the wifi stuff.
The issue with all of android development is the "glue" which holds the pieces together. The changes in frameworks (new releases..) necessitates changes in the "glue". So whether it's changes to arguments, changes to calls, changes to tunnels / pipes, semaphores, locks, all these take work. Code does not compile and test itself, yet (lol). So a system integrator, which is what devs do, earns its (non-sexist) keep by using other peoples / coders stuff.
Vision is what all the devs have. Vision to see how the pieces should fit together. So I support his sorry ass, till this site comes to the same realization. I also support others. I fully appreciate their work and effort. How can people expect code for free? F off the devs are entitled to remuneration. Supporters fill the niche of testers, I almost wish the stuff was first given, then issued to supporters. As it is, we test, you benefit, back asswords...
So Kings AOSP rom is in his forum and he has done bunch of stuff to make it work. Decadence, Flipz, Birdman, Hill, Koush, Cyanogen, Amon_RA, Hero_over, KingX, and everybody else who "devs" should be names you remember at this start of a new genera of personal computing. Stories to tell your kids... "see that xxx on the TV, that's my software."
BTW if google is going to compete with MS, it had better start funding.
I am amazed that these people provide stuff, and people have the gall to comment on them, IT'S THE CODE, not the coder.
Amen.
Lotsa small minded folks... gotta coddle em', cajole' em, and hope that the code/Roms themselves take centerstage.. not they're drama.
The site in question requires registration for most downloads and requires donations as well for certain things (aka selling).
I am sorry, but I will have to close this thread.
RE: ▽▲ AXURA Vibrant Edition ▼△ Development Stopped.
First I'd like to say that was a punk move. Secondly, there's plenty of other great ROMs out there. I'm not sad, nor upset. I'm not going to kiss Master's ass. (I'm a software developer, I could take my own time to do this same ****) I'm also not going to flame or trash him (That'd be a waste of bandwidth and time).
The politics on these forums is ridiculous. You get something for free and then everyone *****es when things don't go their way. Devs take their personal time to provide you with something 'cool' or 'different' and you have a few select people ruining it for others. I don't 100% agree with 'Donating' to get 'early releases', but whatever. It is what it is. I'll roll with 2.0.6 AKA Axura Final until I get bored or something different catches my eye.
I'll admit, I really liked the theming done to it. I'm so sick of black and stupid ugly colors (I have a bit of a desiger background) that a lot of people call 'cool' or thinks 'looks great!'. And after searching for a ROM that didn't look like total ****, I actually considered getting involved in the theming community. We'll see.
Haters will hate.
I'm just taken away by this, I go out to eat with ole girl, come back and everything is stopped. I'm keeping 2.1 one for a while now, its destined to be a relic. But it is a damn good ROM, and skoal had to **** it up for everyone. I am sure he has recieved TONS of PMs from pissed off followers of Master, and rightfully so. However, I will not partake in anything like that.
I'm hoping this is just a phase that will blow over. Master came out of no where, it a place dominated by the "heavy hitters" and made a name for himself.
Good, mature post.
When somethings turns from being appreciated into being expected...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
I don't understand why a single leak is being blown so big.
How do you think we got the froyo release? ---(Leaked)
You dont see samsung *****ing and pouting about stopping development (which is minimal anyway).
I am running the captivate port for the 2.0 rom and hands down it is the fastest and most stable rom in our rom dev.
xtremekilla09 said:
I don't understand why a single leak is being blown so big.
How do you think we got the froyo release? ---(Leaked)
You dont see samsung *****ing and pouting about stopping development (which is minimal anyway).
I am running the captivate port for the 2.0 rom and hands down it is the fastest and most stable rom in our rom dev.
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Click to collapse
Its not all WHAT was done, but what was SAID, and how it went down. Blatant disrespect.
xtremekilla09 said:
I don't understand why a single leak is being blown so big.
How do you think we got the froyo release? ---(Leaked)
You dont see samsung *****ing and pouting about stopping development (which is minimal anyway).
I am running the captivate port for the 2.0 rom and hands down it is the fastest and most stable rom in our rom dev.
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Click to collapse
+1
When we try to stop the leaking of leaked roms then I think it's getting out of control.
I can fully appreciate Master +all the other devs for the work but the fact is, one person gets the rom early and Master calls foul... big deal. Get over it. I wonder how many leaked roms from other devs have fallen into Master's lap.
+1
couped said:
Good, mature post.
When somethings turns from being appreciated into being expected...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
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Exactly my thoughts.
razormy said:
+1
When we try to stop the leaking of leaked roms then I think it's getting out of control.
I can fully appreciate Master +all the other devs for the work but the fact is, one person gets the rom early and Master calls foul... big deal. Get over it. I wonder how many leaked roms from other devs have fallen into Master's lap.
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This is the first I've been involved with any ROM outside of the G1 realm (CyanogenMod) and I don't know of any other project where you can donate to get special treatment. Honestly, that's where the problem started. Dealing with money and VIP status. Cyanogen doesn't release anything until he's ready. Mainly so he can avoid the barrage of "X doesn't work, plz/fix/k/thx!". I also don't think if a few people get ZOMG v6.0.1.2-FINAL, that he'd be too upset.
There is a sense of quality control. You don't want a lot of people to get an early release to prevent the spamming of complaints. It's distracting and takes away from your project plan. If this was a real dev shop there'd be a bug tracking list and a handful of devs hacking away at their assigned tickets.
Overall, (both parties included, or and I guess the leaker too) it's a punk move. What are we? 12? (Sometimes I think we are! after all the bickering I read)
Meh... :|
It is a shame. While I wasn't going to donate to get a pre-release copy, I was going to donate after the final version was released assuming it worked fine as a thank you for his hard work (I had a few issues with 2.05 and was waiting before flashing again).
It is his right though, even if it is confusing when considering the circumstances of how these types of ROMs got started in the first place.
This forum is so crappy now..
everyone wants rewarded and begs for money
Master I thought was the worse...
icebrkr said:
This is the first I've been involved with any ROM outside of the G1 realm (CyanogenMod) and I don't know of any other project where you can donate to get special treatment. Honestly, that's where the problem started. Dealing with money and VIP status. Cyanogen doesn't release anything until he's ready. Mainly so he can avoid the barrage of "X doesn't work, plz/fix/k/thx!". I also don't think if a few people get ZOMG v6.0.1.2-FINAL, that he'd be too upset.
There is a sense of quality control. You don't want a lot of people to get an early release to prevent the spamming of complaints. It's distracting and takes away from your project plan. If this was a real dev shop there'd be a bug tracking list and a handful of devs hacking away at their assigned tickets.
Overall, (both parties included, or and I guess the leaker too) it's a punk move. What are we? 12? (Sometimes I think we are! after all the bickering I read)
Meh... :|
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Agreed. Thanks for this thread. I hated reading the last one because of all the nonsense. A new rom will come and the fools will be foolish.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
kingrat said:
This forum is so crappy now..
everyone wants rewarded and begs for money
Master I thought was the worse...
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Click to collapse
Let's not trash talk or name names... ok?
problem with forums like this
The problem with forums like this is they break out something like this:
10% 12-18
40% 19-26
40% 27-45
10% 46-60+ (where I fall into)
So, since age and maturity is the problem (or lack of maturity) there is no way to regulate that, not in an open forum....we are just left to self regulation........and as such, it will always be imperfect.
What is important is to be respectful and mature in the treatment (doing what they ask) of each other. The leaked rom from one friend to another is not really the core issue...........it is the public proclamation "Hey I got over on you" that demonstrates both the lack of respect and lack of maturity. This adolescent behavior (which the guilty one thinks is cute) damages our experience in this forum or in other forums. A Shame really.......
This forum gets ridiculous full of ungrateful people it really ruins development of great phones, people start to think they deserve something that was given out of good faith to help them hence original 2.2 leak
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Lets see if I can say this without sounding rude... Fok master, do the **** your self, a lot of his **** is off leaked stuff and others work...
he should be happy someone wanted his **** that bad...
By the way donating for a early release isn't a donation, thats a payment..... Never using his rom again, imma go stock and make the rom myself, you all could to its simple....
EDIT: Hell I remember when Master was trying to over run BIONIX lol Dude was all in their business... Trying to side help their ****. Man common Master, This is a punk move, for this You will never get a second look from me... Peace man, Just needed them donations/ Payments huh
Not allowing people to distribute his ROM is a violation of the GPL. He may ask, but he has no basis to. He built a ROM based on pre-released code and Open Source code and has no valid position to stop the same. Sure, he can get pissy if people do, that is certainly his right, but the moment he makes it available to anyone that person clearly has the right to distribute it unless it has actual proprietary software on it.
The person asking was within their rights
The person who gave it out was within their rights
Master getting pissed and stopping further development for people exercising their rights is completely within his rights.
Life goes on, shame, I was waiting for 2.1, time to move on.
kingrat said:
This forum is so crappy now..
everyone wants rewarded and begs for money
Master I thought was the worse...
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I've seen you in Master's thread, you've contributed nothing but disrespect and you're part of the reason he closed his thread.
FYI, Master isn't discontinuing development. He is choosing not to share with XDA. Anyone that is interested in his work can still find it on his forum.
Seems a lot of Devs are keeping their work on their own sites. From what I've seen on this site in the last few weeks, I don't blame them.
I think it's messed up for those that paid for his roms now to get no support.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
First of all thanks for making this thread OP. I want to get a few things out here as well.
Very immature on the part of everyone involved. Seriously grow up and get on with it.
This donation stuff is nothing more than payment and that is right. But the payment isn't so much for the software as it is the help in putting it together and getting it all to play nice. Sure you could piece it all together yourself if you had enough free time it isn't THAT hard. Or like me if your time is more valuable you can sling homeboy <INSERT NAME HERE> $10 and have him put it together for you. I value my time greatly and I lead a very busy life so I am very happy paying someone $10 if it even saves 30 minutes of my day. I am highly skilled and do computer security work for a living so it has nothing to do with knowledge or ability.
So lets make that clear. You are donating for their time not the actual software itself. Some of these guys spend a ton of time on their ROMs and if I can get that for a piddly $10-$25 donation then I say that is a deal. And on top of that he even offers personalized support when this ROM doesn't work.
I don't think the issue here is requiring donations because if they didn't nobody would donate so that is only fair. And it is more than reasonable for them to try to get some reward for time and effort invested. Especially if they have a website to support!
jnutz said:
First of all thanks for making this thread OP. I want to get a few things out here as well.
Very immature on the part of everyone involved. Seriously grow up and get on with it.
This donation stuff is nothing more than payment and that is right. But the payment isn't so much for the software as it is the help in putting it together and getting it all to play nice. Sure you could piece it all together yourself if you had enough free time it isn't THAT hard. Or like me if your time is more valuable you can sling homeboy <INSERT NAME HERE> $10 and have him put it together for you. I value my time greatly and I lead a very busy life so I am very happy paying someone $10 if it even saves 30 minutes of my day. I am highly skilled and do computer security work for a living so it has nothing to do with knowledge or ability.
So lets make that clear. You are donating for their time not the actual software itself. Some of these guys spend a ton of time on their ROMs and if I can get that for a piddly $10-$25 donation then I say that is a deal. And on top of that he even offers personalized support when this ROM doesn't work.
I don't think the issue here is requiring donations because if they didn't nobody would donate so that is only fair. And it is more than reasonable for them to try to get some reward for time and effort invested. Especially if they have a website to support!
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I couldn't agree more.
The thought popped up in my head this morning. I remembered Eugene, the developer of the Macnut ROM, who no longer supported XDA. Then another dev, jellette, that quit for reasons I can't quite understand. Who's to blame for these developers quitting the scene, or only providing ROMs on other sites?
I'm a 16 year old high school student in San Francisco. I've been lurking the forums ever since I got my Vibrant and my friend directed me here. I'm not at all new to hacks like these, I've been participating in communities and actions like these since I was 12. I never found a reason to become closely connected within this community, though. It's not a small group, it's a much larger one, and I don't have any place to fit in. This is one of my first posts, and it's one that I feel I need to share with the community: my thoughts and beliefs on the whole situation about devs that no longer support XDA or flat out quit.
Let's cover some ground first:
These devs are not paid. They make these ROMs, custom kernels, and other mods in their spare time. The only money they make off these ROMs comes from donations, and some devs don't ask for donations anyway.
The users are not paying for this work. The users don't need to give feedback, however they are permitted and allowed to comment, criticize, or help the developers in any way.
The trade made here is obviously unfair: give nothing, get something. In many cases, get a great piece of work for your phone that will make it blazing fast and give it features and functionality unheard of to other users of the same phone. The devs are ok with this though, as they freely release their work without a price tag.
However, there are some things devs are not ok with. I can't speak for each and every single developer, but having once done development in my own time as well, I can say the one thing that really aggravates all developers, and all people even, is when your work goes unnoticed, or worse yet, gets disrespected. When some bombarding, ignorant user comes along and rips apart your hard work, what are you to do? "This ROM is utterly horrible, you should've put more work into it before releasing this paperweight." Maybe a bit over the top, but it gets the point across, and it's from this that a developer will most likely quit XDA as he sees fit.
So what can we say about the users, the freeloaders? Some decency is expected of all of us, basically. That's the lesson every user should know: respect those that give you what you get. They're not robots that work endlessly with nothing better to do. These are people, hard working men and women who spend hours on end making software for you. Give them your respect. Constructive criticism is nice, but never go so far as to demote them as a person. If you want their respect, you must give them respect. Make them feel welcome and they will continue to work for the entire community. It's simple, human nature.
As for developers, are they in the right place to quit under these grounds? There is no set ground for quitting. Each person sees fit at what time he or she should quit working, in any case: as a dev, as an employee, as anyone. People need to know their limits, and they do know their limits. As a free working developer, they have a lot more liberty in deciding when they want to stop working for the community. Even someone who didn't feel accused or demoted could leave for no reason and it wouldn't affect them as much as if they had left their full-time paying job. This is not a source of revenue, it's not a source of anything, in fact.
One thing devs should know, and this is coming straight from me, is that as someone who releases work on the forums, your name will be known, and it's wise that you build a public image for yourself. Quitting without reason, without a post to describe your feelings, to express concerns or thoughts on the community or whatever else you'd like to mention, does not help build a good public image. You are at liberty to do as you please, that's your free choice, but people will judge you based on your actions. Throwing yourself into a position as such, as a chef, comes with more than just giving out work. It comes with the comments users will give you. It's good to be able to politically conduct yourself, to create a good public image, which will ultimately help you avoid the negative comments the public makes.
In conclusion:
Users: Be respectful, have some common decency. This is for all of us, not just those who don't get it. It's a rule we should all know. Developers are humans, just like us. Respect them as such.
Developers/chefs: You are free to do what you like. Quit as you please, continue as you please, no one will stop you. It is, however, important to make a good public image. Not necessary, but important. Conduct yourself in a political manner, because us users see you as a strong force, not just as a person. Be ready to make a good public image.
I want to know your thoughts on this. I feel it's important that this ground is covered, and that we come to a general consensus on this. The more you know, the better off you are. The more we all know, the better off we will all be.
if only there were more users like you.
I'm tired of these little immature kids making these hardworking devs leave the forum.
xriderx66 said:
if only there were more users like you.
I'm tired of these little immature kids making these hardworking devs leave the forum.
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Click to collapse
I second that...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
I also think that those developing roms need to understand that a lot of members are teenagers that do not what respect is. I myself am 30yrs old and I know that there are more members that are much younger and very childish. The devs need to not take it out on the entire forum. There are more members that appreciate their work than there are that do not.
I agree with you 100% in partucular regarding the users.
I came to this forum looking for support, trying to get the GPS working on my Vibrant.
Before I posted or did anything I read many threads and researched what it meant to use Odin and to root the phone and flash a rom and to recover from a problem before I even started anything. When I did I was fully aware that I and I alone, was responsible for anything that happened to my phone. I am continually amazed at how some people jump in, without a clue as to what they are doing, then seem to try to blame the developers for their problems. Then you have the group who complain about colors or a boot animation or a "missing" app on a rom they got for free. Simply amazing the entitlement people have over something that someone puts out there for them to try to improve their phone for free.
I can understand how the devs could get fed up with these sorts of actions. It can take a pretty thick skin to deal with all the stuff I see going on here.
It is like a preschool in here...just get used to it.
Life will go on, and someone will always be making roms--herds are pathetic, individuals are lost inside said herds. Keep your ears open and your mouth shut.
My $0.02
No one but the Dev can pull their ROMs and leave. We all take criticism in life. Some run, some brush it off.
ScooterG said:
No one but the Dev can pull their ROMs and leave. We all take criticism in life. Some run, some brush it off.
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Click to collapse
I agree to a point, just if anyone runs off Master I'm forming a mob with pitchforks and torches...
I have plenty of respect for the few guys who make a few useful programs, and I don't think I've ever bashed a dev's work openly. But:
ScooterG said:
No one but the Dev can pull their ROMs and leave. We all take criticism in life. Some run, some brush it off.
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Click to collapse
/Twerd.
Gotta give respect to receive, and some devs just think they are God's gift to Captain Taco. It's the Internet - no one gets respect on the 'tubes. Who gives a ****. The growing up really neds to happen on the part of most of these "I'm pouty b/c someone said something crass about some weekend work I did" "developers."
Drewstein said:
I agree to a point, just if anyone runs off Master I'm forming a mob with pitchforks and torches...
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Click to collapse
McMaster should shrink his huge sig. It's a symptom of my point: get over your self importance. There are (good) forums on the 'Net that enforce a 5-line or 100px tall rule (vs. his 300px +).
Again, not bashing the work, just the attitude, as presented.
-bZj
Agree ...........great post clear concise and to the point. Funny, that a 16 year old can articulate the basics of good behavior that most in here do not practice. I do not blame a lot of the devs leaving, people rag on their work give nothing but complaints..... as if they have the skill (yeah right).People will eagerly wait 10 min in a Starbucks line, pay 5.00 for a coffee and never donate to the dev, XDA or anything........then complain when the custom rom they got for free doesn't work the WAY they like or want......... talk about selfish irony...........
Great post !! kevipapo1 (from a guy old enough to be your grandpa )
i agree with it. people need to remember that without dev. we would all be running stock
If master leaves I'll suicide.
I hope ur reading this, master
Unfortunately this is the interwebz and this is has its been in any android forum I've ventured through. As you are young, but yet seem to be fairly wise, I say to you "welcome to the world my friend!"
Very good post.
Most criticism is from lack of knowledge/education. People don't understand how difficult it is to develop a ROM. So they criticise what they don't understand because it inconveniences them.
However, I will disagree somewhat with developer criticism. Although, I don't agree with the way Master handled the situation, I can relate.
I believe it is very important for us to realize that ROM developers are not public figures. They have the freedom to stop and start as they please. Their passion is development, after all, not public relations.
Kudos OP. Excellent post!
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
I just want to say thanks to all Developers here at XDA. Without you and your ROMS or tweaks i wouldn't have the great phone i have today that i spent my hard earned money on, and to the immature people if something doesn't work right on a ROM insted of being an ASS!!! and saying how crappy it is say whats wrong and they will fix it they have for me.
Again thanks to all who have helped you don't even know me but you all are ready to help at anytime day or night.
GARY
I personally am 15 and have been in xda since 13
I appreciate the devs for all their work if it wasn't for them i would have killed myself with many frustrations of a stock vibrant
I hate that some are immature and that some get really irritating i understand that some are new but some just get on nerves.
I wish eugene came back because he was.one of the first devs here
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
This is a great post & I echo the op's sentiments. This forum and the devs that contribute to it are a phenomenal resource to all of us and deserve to be treated with respect as we all do. The real shame is that a 16 yr old realizes this more than most of us adults (some of which are in name only). I've been in these forums for only a short time and the amount of immaturity, cynacism and deconstructive criticism I have seen is truly apalling and frankly I'm suprised more haven't bailed. I guess the Golden Rule isn't important when you've got the anonymity of the internet.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
Lethal_NFS said:
I also think that those developing roms need to understand that a lot of members are teenagers that do not what respect is. I myself am 30yrs old and I know that there are more members that are much younger and very childish. The devs need to not take it out on the entire forum. There are more members that appreciate their work than there are that do not.
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Just because someone is childish does NOT mean that they are a child.
I've seen many adults that throw a tantrum worse than a 5 year old and many 5 year olds who act like they're going on 30.
Likely their age has nothing to do with it & its just a reflection of their random genetics and/or crappy parenting.
down8 said:
McMaster should shrink his huge sig. It's a symptom of my point: get over your self importance. There are (good) forums on the 'Net that enforce a 5-line or 100px tall rule (vs. his 300px +).
Again, not bashing the work, just the attitude, as presented.
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Click to collapse
If its an issue, then xda should make a max image/sig size (like you mentioned other sites do). That simple.
Most of his signature tells you to search & read the XDA rules before posting, not really bad advice & since he has to answer questions from many people who don't do either, I can't really blame him.
It would be a LOT more aesthetically pleasing if it were text only, but since XDA allows it, I don't really have a problem with it.
Most of the devs have developed a bit of an attitude (I've seen it from Eugene, SomBionix, Master, and a few others) because of the crap they have to deal with & XDA not enforcing their own rules (this is supposed to have changed after the town hall meeting).
i have been on xda since 2005, left came back etc etc, i do minor edits and coding here and there for myself because i dont have the time like these other people. but honestly most people need to get over themselves. this is a strong community and will live on without you. that said this community has made some people millionaires and others just brats who want the limelight. the idea behind this site is to take the software into our own hands. its us vs. corporations. if devs want to leave cool stfu about it and go but keep in mind that unless you have a contributed to the community dont complain about someones work. devs know what come when you start producing products. its the same that companys deal with. most leave because they get their feelings hurt. its not like people are stalking you and breaking your kneecaps because angry birds wouldnt play during their lunchbreak. ignore the negative and stay or wine and leave. but this place or any place wont change. the more successful you get the harder your skin must be
About me and why it all got under my skin.
James / jellette / Heathen
39 year old, married, father of 3
<Edited out line, too personal>
I look around and see Darky, Doc, Jim, Eugene, TW and everyone else doing Gingerbread clones - and they aren't called "Copy Cat" - but when I do it I am. That makes a guy pretty darn mad.
I set out to do the latest Rom 100% from scratch without drawing from the work of any existing Rom specifically because of my relationship with TW. The takers out there have no idea how much work goes into doing that.
Here was and continues to be the process with PepperKake.
1. Download the JL5 Rom from samfirmware.com
2. Odin to get a feel for the new firmware.
3. Rip the files from factoryfs.rfs
4. Release the first flashable Odexed recovery safe JL5 by 30 minutes
5. Deodex the apps and jars - on this build I was unsuccessful deodexing swype and I used krylon360's swype and credited him for that.
6. Download the Nexus S dump
7. Pull all of the images I needed out of framework-res.apk and SystemUi.apk and the original bootanimation.zip and the icon out of every matching Gingerbread app
8. Carefully build the theme, re-mod the Gingerbread Launcher and create the faux crt shutdown sequence.
9. Rip the gps files from the Nexus S dump including permissions for gps and maps and restructure JL5 to call these files
10. Replace with 3E recovery, ensure the sdcard mounts, etc..
11. Flash and fix 219 times until it is 99% bug free and ready for an Alpha release.
As you can see, this is not a weekend cooked rom as put earlier in the thread.
I update my roms usually once a day until it is complete, I fulfill requests for kernel flash packs for the rom, etc..
I did get pretty angry and pulled my roms - I later replaced the most recent rom. I also set up my website as a backup, which is quickly becoming my primary release source. I will stay around xda though like it or not.
On those who have followed me to the new site in support: Thank you.
Finally, a very short word on TW.
I have nothing but respect for these guys. I learned everything from them.
And that is my word on this.
i have a rooted fascinate, no im not posting where my 2.2 update is, it'll get here when it gets here, more that this is a call out to any devs and end users like myself that are tired of the same old rom styles and themes. Some roms are straight beautiful, like Thatdudebutch's super dark v1, and sos3 blackhole, whereas some just seem too stock-ish to me.
Where is the imagination? The creativity? I know devs are always working they're ass's off to bring us the next best port or rom based off insert other rom name here... but im ready for the dev that says hey i created this from scratch...
Maybe its just me, maybe im being a whiney ass lol, but i think its time devs started using what they think is cool, not what everyone else thinks is cool. If the enduser doesnt like the rom/theme, then boo ****in hoo and they can use something else.
Like i think SONOFSKYWALKER3's idea of build your own rom was a huge breakthrough in end user controlled customization, but its still using whats already available to us in either stock, or from the select few top 3 roms.
Please guys, (devs too) Show us what you can really do, make that rom that takes our breath away. We will love you for it...i will love you for it (metaphorically speaking of course lol)
Show us what you can do too
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
Progress is progress. The devs are porting gb to the Fascinate, that's a start in real customization. Just wait, the devs are already working hard. If your pushing them so hard, why don't you help? Seriously, its this disappointment in devs that ruins a devs commitment.
Rockin' DJ05, Minimal Icognito, Clocked at 1.3Ghz
Why must everything be taken so negatively? I read this first post and saw it as inspiration. I can see that the devs who make roms make it for the general public not for themselves, and I think thats why they make them so similar to each other, as thats what most people like. I feel that a dev isn't really ready to go out of his/her way to bust they're ass and make a rom that only they and a handful of others are going to use.
All in all, I think the OPer made a good point in "challenging" the devs to 'unleash' their creativity into the atmosphere and make somthing of their own that they are truely balls to the wall about.
Just my 2 cents.
TheSonicEmerald said:
Progress is progress. The devs are porting gb to the Fascinate, that's a start in real customization. Just wait, the devs are already working hard. If your pushing them so hard, why don't you help? Seriously, its this disappointment in devs that ruins a devs commitment.
Rockin' DJ05, Minimal Icognito, Clocked at 1.3Ghz
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree completely...remember the devs don't have to do what they do for us...if it was as simple as 1,2,3 then everyone would create their own roms for themselves...
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
The problem is, there's more worth in porting gingerbread and then porting other roms like cyangenmod which are easier to customize, than customizing samsung's firmware updates.
Rockin' DJ05, Minimal Icognito, Clocked at 1.3Ghz
jdkzombie said:
If the enduser doesnt like the rom/theme, then boo ****in hoo and they can use something else.
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Click to collapse
Yeah.. so what was the point of your post again?
Not at all trying to be negative, but what exactly are you looking for?
Sent from my SCH-I500
you are all missing the point of my post
its not to bash devs, its not to berate anyone, nor was it to solicit "why dont you do it yourself" comments. But since thats how everyone is going to take it, i guess i need to clarify. What i meant by devs making what they think is cool is for them to use their imagination and make their roms and themes unique. Too many roms out there have been sourced from others...not that this is a bad thing as there are beautiful works of art available to all who wants to flash them..
These devs bust their ass to make these things for us and i respect that with all my being, and i appreciate all that they do. My hats off to all of them. But, again, wheres the creativity? Why must they be forced to use what is already in the eclair, froyo, and Gingerbread roms as their inspiration? These guys can take 0's and 1's and turn them into something beautiful that cant be taken seriously in just pictures. In the last 3 days i have flashed more things to my phone than i can hardly count, yes i have screwed my phone up and recovered, but im not here explaining without experiencing the world of flashing.
Why dont i help out....i'd love to yet im not programmer. I have zero idea how coding and programming and bitmapping works. Thats why we have developers. Im not here to bash anyone. I go to school currently to be a master mechanic, therefore computer programming is worlds different from installing and tuning a greddy turbo, or replacing a radiator, or even doing a tune up on (insert friends name here)'s car.
Im calling out to devs to stop being restrained by the limitations we as endusers have put on them, to indirectly force their hand in creating something they may not like but we will because otherwise people out there will gripe and complain. Devs, make what YOU want. There are limitless capabilities to be had in android because its so open. As developers you are the ones who provide for us when the manufacturers fail to hold up their word/rumor/promise/ etc, i dont want you to think that you have to make these for us, i want you to want to make these for us. Without you developers we would all be stuck to a basic android existence harkening to that of apple and its lockdown on whats what.
I wanna see creations from your darkest fantasies about android. I want to see the rom that gets you all hot and bothered. I want to see the theme that you got the inspiration for while you were driving around town or watching a movie. Dammit guys, make what you want to see android be, enough being the lambs, its time to be the lion. When phone manufacturers fail, where do we turn? To you devs. You. I cant even begin to describe how much respect i have for what you do for us.
I'll finish this off with something for the people who will no doubt bash me and flame because i need to do it myself, or im being to hard on them, or i'm just being a whiny little *****. boo hoo. get over it. Its my post, regarding my OPINION. I didnt force any of you to view it. to read it. to comment on it. the fact that you did shows that each one of you feels the same way i do. We all love android. We all love what the devs do. Why should we hold them back from what their imaginations can design? What gives us the right to do that....
Respect devs...always and forever from me....respect.
jdkzombie said:
Why dont i help out....i'd love to yet im not programmer. I have zero idea how coding and programming and bitmapping works. Thats why we have developers.
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Click to collapse
Well, you don't have to be a programmer to be "creative". In the design process all sorts of people are involved, and you could think up a concept. You could design a concept so great that a programmer would like at it and think it's great and decide to bring it to life. But asking people to be creative on your behalf, and using "i'm not a programmer" as an excuse to be a spectator is simply selfish I gotta say. Not trying to bash you too much, but simply saying there's many ways to be useful.
Jdkzombie is right...when linus developed the linux kernel he basically said....here it is, go forth and multiply...,now we have tons of different flavors and styles of linux. Android is awesome in its own right but we are only customizing something already there. (Devs....i definately mean no disrespect... ). The only thing i've seen so far that has bent that rule is MIUI. but that is too close to an iphone for me. I think what jdk is trying to say is...,where are the truely custom roms with wild and crazy user interfaces. I don't think jdk is asking the devs to stop what they are doing by no means...but maybe jdks asking why can't we all b more creative and come together as a community and come up with one ourselves with ideas from all of us...,and then find devs to take the plunge and make it happen. It all starts with an IDEA. So why not...,instead of bashing in this forum... ,let's start posting things we might want to be different in android and see what happens.
Think about it...,ubuntu linux- "your name here" android?
Thanks to all, devs, themers, and the users who have donated and contributed feedback over the years to make android what it is.
I may not post here much, but when i see something worth posting about i have to add MY opinion....and that's all it is.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
i think the op has a nice idea, but this probably isnt the phone to realize it on.
we have a handful of very talented devs, but really there time is mostly tied up in attempting to right the wrongs that samsung has done to us, by working on aosp/froyo/gb whatever.
the n1/ns community (or i9000) might be the guys you d want to bring your ideas to, as they have a global base of devs and their communities dwarf ours to the point of ridiculousness
See tho, one of the first lessons they teach you in most programming courses nowadays is "why reinvent the wheel?" It's there, it does it's job, why not build on top of that framework that already exists. This is the foundational principle of software engineering.
Think about it like this: you are in the woods and need to build a fire. You have plenty of dry wood, small kindling materials, and matches. Why would you go to the trouble of locating a striker stone and a piece of Flint to use to try and start the fire when you already have matches. You wouldn't unless you had no alternative or just liked to take the inefficient route for the sake of itself.
Another way to think of it is like this:
If I needed to drive from here in Mississippi to Nevada, I wouldn't build a car to drive if I already had one.
Devs are trying g to give us the most bang for our buck and that means using the tools and frameworks already in place.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
CrushD said:
Well, you don't have to be a programmer to be "creative". In the design process all sorts of people are involved, and you could think up a concept. You could design a concept so great that a programmer would like at it and think it's great and decide to bring it to life. But asking people to be creative on your behalf, and using "i'm not a programmer" as an excuse to be a spectator is simply selfish I gotta say. Not trying to bash you too much, but simply saying there's many ways to be useful.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why must you assume i havent already given my thoughts and ideas to several devs and "themers" on IRC. I have frequented that site for a good amount of time the past handful of days, both getting assistance with "de-bricking" my phone when i flash a no no to my device, and helping out who i can with their own problems.
It isnt just just me that should be "expected" to come up with new ideas here. I expect everyone to have something to contribute if you are going to post your comments (i use the word "your" in reference to everyone, not just anyone in particular)
You want a bit of my idea? I wanted to see a rom where the screens scroll vertically. Not horizontally like they "all" do. Where when you swipe the screen from left to right it open "your" favorite app. Swipe the screen from right to left and it opens the app try. I have also mentioned that a quick 3 tap on the home screen would zoom out showing a carousel of sorts that you can scroll through to select 1 of 9 home screens that can be filled to burst with your favorite widgets and apps. I dont have a preset color idea. Instead that we be afforded a color "wheel" to choose ourselves what collor basic things are. Be afforded to opportunity to make multiple themes like with ADW, that can installed "into" the rom. I assume everyone has seen the DROID commercials where the two robots select a few apps in the giant app "planet." That would be a sweet app tray wouldnt it? Would it be impossible? I dont know, since i have no idea how programming works. But im sure it would be quite the undertaking.
I would hope that this could be a place for anyone to post their ideas as well, not just mine. I also have this distinct feeling that as of my posts i will be held to a "imaginary" standard that it will be my obligation to post ideas and inspirations. But then therin lies my issue with roms today in general. These roms arent being made for me. If a developer makes anything like my idea, i want it to be something they want to see in android, not just because someone else said hey you develop roms, why dont you make this so i can have it.
This isnt/wasnt/never will be a thread to bash anyone including devs, themers, end users (other posters, but thats my point.) I wont bother to say im not going to be the only one. I dont have to post that. The sheer fact that you (the general population that bothers to read this thread) shows that wish there was more creativity, more originality,....hell....more of the "DEV" in his/her creation than anything else. It would make a developers rom/theme so much more their creation. So when someone says hey i have (for example) ThatDudeButch's new theme, its unique to HIM....the developer... and someone else that has a theme by Adiliyo (also for example) its going to be unique to HIM. Im really hoping all of you have the mental capacity (i used that term for lack of a better one, no offense intended for anyone) and the maturity level to understand that this is a challenge to all who design, develop, or theme, or even just dream to no longer be limited by the general public. Design whatever makes you get a stiffy if thats what it takes. What with the new 2.3 android os out, why should we hold the devs to make different copies of whats out. Why cant we encourage them to make the unthinkable....the un imagined...the roms that arent bound to a single line of influence.
If you (everyone and anyone) are going to post here simply to flame me for speaking my mind about what i would love to see roms and themes become, then perhaps you should consider keeping your comments to yourselves. BUT, this being a public forum, and i am no moderator, i cannot make anyone not post here, nor what they post about, so with that i will only ask that you not just post for the sake of singling out a line of any of my posts to make a snide comment on how its up to me/i need to design it/being too hard on devs ruining their commitment/etc etc. If we werent hard on engineers/developers/programmers in world-wide view considering the design of everything we use today, we wouldnt be in possession of the technological breakthroughs that we have now. We would all still have bag phones. Model A fords, if even that, we would still be riding horses....might i even be bold enough to state we wouldnt even be out of the stone age if it hadnt been for someone somewhere pushing those who build to do bigger and better things.
Please, use common sense people. Im simply issuing a challenge to devs/themers to not be constrained by our ideals. Again, to make what THEY want to make. Remember, they dont have to do this for us, so why cant they build what they want. And thats why i respect what they do.
agsded said:
"why reinvent the wheel?"
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
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Im not asking for a new wheel, only a more efficient one. Thats such an over-cliched term anyways and has no merit (in my view) If we never reinvented anything, we'd not be in the possession of these beauties of creation we have today. I bet someone told Henry Ford why reinvent the wheel when he said lets have a car that can be available to the common man. Do you think Ford would be the automotive supergiant they are now if he had followed that advice? Do you think we would have Windows OS, Mac, or any of the other available computing OS's that we have now would be available now if the designers had followed your sage advice?
Please realize, im not bashing you, any of you, im not going to stoop that low. We are all adults here, and even some teenagers, whom i hope utilize that powerful muscle between their ears before they use their fingers, so why must we criticize? Why cant we , as so eloquently put in an earlier post, come together as a community and share ideas.
Just saying.
Yeah, but see all those things you mentioned arent revolutionary leaps of accomplishment, but simply evolution of existing products... refinements..
Henry Ford simply took the concepts of mass production, the assembly line, and interchangeable parts, and applied them to the automotive field. He didn't invent something new, he "engineered" something better from what was already there. He made cars more affordable, available, and easier to repair.
Technology is no different... mechanical switches to electric switches to vacuum tubes to transistors to integrated circuits, they are just extensions of what's there.
We don't still use carburetors because fuel injection is more efficient, largely because it can meter the fuel more precisely, especially at idle. But..the first fuel injection setups were just electronic carburetors, with the old central port fuel injection systems... even the newer ones still do the same thing, just more precisely...
I'd love a smartphone that could read my thoughts and had a neural interface with zero lag. Is it coming.... who knows....is it a reinvention... no, just another step in between a previous one and the next.
Something to ponder.... at the core of all operating systems is basic math.
Add one value to another and put the result here. Stick the right combo of values in the right set of registers and a pixel lights up on the screen. That's the way machine language works...so all software is an evolution of ones and zeros...
A switch is on, 1 a switch is off, 0... so basically computers are just a big ginormous pile of light switches, lol..
Anyways.... I agree, I'd live to see some real neat stuff for android, but at some point, you'd have to throw out android to make it radically different, and then it would just be yet ANOTHER attempt at a mobile os to further fragment things....instead of moving forward, we'd be moving sideways....not as bad as moving backwards, but not progress either....
That's
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Just curious, but... How do you know devs aren't creating what they want? Why would they waste time building something that they didn't want to do?
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agsded said:
....instead of moving forward, we'd be moving sideways....not as bad as moving backwards, but not progress either....
That's
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I totally agree with you, but yet i also disagree. Which isnt a bad thing, at least we are agreeing to disagree i suppose lol But the point still stands. Why....why must we make do with what we have? Why not bring forth innovation? Is that not how progress is made? Im not looking for an overnight change in the way roms are designed. I only asking that the devs make it a challenge for themselves. Make something they havent done before. Im just winging this without black and white information, but how do we know that manufacturers dont look at these roms for their inspiration?
I'm only asking for that one ambitious dev who needs a challenge to strive for that next peg. The next rung on the ladder of progress. Yes Henry Ford didnt invent the automobile, but with his bringing the assembly line to his own needs he created something huge. Thats what im hoping devs will do for android. When we tire of out normal phone interfaces, to whom do we turn? Yes. thats right, these hard working devs. A vast majority of them create wonders with whats available to them. Others simply tweak and twist certain aspects to their own taste.
A phone that reads out thoughts with a neural interface with zero lag would indeed be a nice addition, but im certain 10 years down the road such a thing may come to be, but thats 10 years from now, if not more. Don't sell yourself short however, all ideas are welcome to me and to this thread. Its odd though, that with all the posts here i seem to be the only one who has put idea to page.
And to mr kevin gossett, How do we know they ARE. We dont. Its as simple as that. All that we can do is hope that there is a dev or 2 or even 3 out there that are willing to bring forth the new age of roms. We turn to these men and women because we are bored with our phones stock rom/theme, so why must the devs and us as end users together suffer the same style in the aftermarket themes and roms? Again not bashing devs here, just stating my opinion, that they need to make something that they love. there WILL be end users out there that will use their roms/themes. I still think some of you are missing my point with all of this, and instead strive to create some echelon of conflict purely for conflicts sake.
View my thread and posts as possible inspiration for the future. Not a bashing, or flaming of those who design for us. The DEVS create the roms, but the devs didnt design what they wanted to see, instead what we wanted to see. And i would love to see that reversed. The DEVS create what THEY want to see, and we use whatever we find to our tastes.
my head hurts
I think I understand what the OP is saying... But at the same time I kind of understand the other side of the fence. Coding is hard, and you must be very precise, and most of these guys are doing it for free. But I know what jdk is meaning....
I think he feels that the devs are limited in what they can create because they are branching off of other works and what people like. I think he wants to see what crazy ass stuff devs can come up with. he wants their creativities to explode all over his face. He wants to see what people can imagine and create. There's nothing wrong with that, as long as he understands the devs, that they have lives, they do this for free, and its hard work, which I think he does understand. I think he's just trying to inspire some folk.