Database Users

Hero rushed out the door?

So after spending two days with the new official ROM I am dumbstruck that HTC let the Hero out the door as it was initially.
If you guys are like me you read online gadget blog reviews of new phones and you base your purchasing decisions to a lesser or greater extent on the reviews posted on these sites. The Hero received generally favorable reviews across the board BUT they were ALL tarred with the issue of the lagginess and unresponsiveness of the UI. Typical comments were "Sense UI is great but the hardware is not up to the task" etc. Hero was always compared to the iPhone and initially it was a more frustrating experience navigating the UI.
Clearly HTC have the ability to release software without these issues (new ROM proves that!) so why did they? I feel like they *really* hurt the sales and market potential of Hero and Sense UI by releasing an 'unfinished' product.
Can you imagine what Engadget's review (for instance) might have been had they reviewed a Hero with the new ROM?
I bought a Hero despite those reviews because I could see the potential in the handset but I know of others that steered clear because of the massive 'BUT...' at the end of most online reviews.
Its an opportunity missed I fear as the Hero is no longer a 'new' device.
I'm very glad that HTC have made my handset waaaaay nicer to use but seriously HTC... big, BIG ball drop!

Well... the Android phones are not really for the average Joes out there... they are for us techies and gadget lovers that love the freedom of doing cool and neat things with a phone.
We don't want to be tied up in an bondage game conducted/directed by a fruity company... and that is also why we choose a company we know.
Good enough?
You really thought we would feed a troll?

I honestly thought my post was a valid topic in a discussion forum about the HTC Hero.
@Thiesen
Wha?!? I really don't understand what your reply has got to do with my post. I think you've misunderstood the subject of my comments (perhaps if I had written in binary it might have been clearer?)
A broader acceptance of any platform is enabling and will benefit all users from 'techies' to 'average Joes'. Its not a matter of IF Android will become more mainstream but WHEN. I'm sorry if this makes you feel less special.
Troll indeed...

We're early adopters. We like to find bugs. We like to find glitches. And we take great pride in reporting them back to the devs and makers.
The average Joes just want things to work. They are not early adopters. They should get an iPhone then.

Thiesen said:
We're early adopters. We like to find bugs. We like to find glitches. And we take great pride in reporting them back to the devs and makers.
The average Joes just want things to work. They are not early adopters. They should get an iPhone then.
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I'm sorry mate but i think thats total rubbish, you wouldn't buy a car knowing it didn't work and happily waste your own time feeding back problems to the manufacture to bring it up to speed. You wouldn't go out and buy a brand new state of the art car and happily put a new engine in it would you knowing the one you had paid for was crap?
AND might I ad, the research and R+D that is put in to these items is all reflected in the price of them. If HTC were giving these phones away for beta testing or what not then fine, but for a £400 handset, i totally agree with the comments made by ShiroEd.
I have had no end of nokia handsets where i have thought nokia have been guilty of the same issue, releasing what could be classed as unfinished products.

Personally, I always though the tech sites overplayed the whole lag issue on the original ROM. Yes it was there, but in my experience the net effect was quite limited and in my case it didn't really limit my ability to use the device. I'm not saying that the issue didn't (or doesn't! ) exist, just that in my opinion it was acceptable for a device of this nature (please no flames from those who disagree).
This may be because I didn't load my home screens with tons of apps, and one of the first things I did do with my Hero was to remove the People and Weather widgets, and set up Peep appropriately.
The average Joes just want things to work. They are not early adopters. They should get an iPhone then.
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That would presume that the iPhone isn't possessed of the same issues that the Hero is/was. Google "iphone lag" and you'll see loads of posts complaining about lag on the iPhone, even for the latest OS and the 3GS.
In addition, you will probably find that the *vast* majority of people who've purchased the Hero have never even heard of XDA-Developers, and probably will never install another ROM. We are in the minority, not the "average joe" when it comes to Hero ownership!
Whilst I disagree with the OP, I don't think he was trolling.
Regards,
Dave

Thiesen said:
We're early adopters. We like to find bugs. We like to find glitches. And we take great pride in reporting them back to the devs and makers.
The average Joes just want things to work. They are not early adopters. They should get an iPhone then.
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Agreed with crash. Thats just rubbish.
Entirely valid topic, and entirely valid point. Nothing remotely troll like about it.
Regardless of the people on this site, the Hero is definitely aimed at the average consumer, as a direct competitor in the iPhone market. Hence the multimedia, Facebook, etc.
Rushed to market I agree, but no idea why... Could just be lack of QA.
Many of the bugs reported here and elsewhere have been met with surprise by HTC, as if they really didnt know they existed. Do they not have a QA department that actually uses the phones in real life? Takes them home, plays with them, uses them all day and night to report the bugs?
Still, the update is great, the phone is flying now. If they could just sort out the crappy contact photo issue, the album caching, and the horrendous lack of bluetooth file transfer, I'd be a happy chap..

I think they shipped out the preview models and early review versions to people in the hope that they'd ignore any slowdown. Most of the review sites seem to have mentioned this in some form, saying that it can be a bit laggy but the final release could be good and the software shows potential - obviously it was never fixed for the first release.
To be fair, we're all early testers for the new HTC interface. If the Hero sells well and works well for everyone then we'll obviously be getting the same thing in future phones.
I don't think HTC is expecting any particular phone to be the next killer phone, they're just working on improvements with each new model.

While it does not make it ok... it seems to be the norm these days to get the product out and iron out bugs in a later release. As long as the quality is respectable, which I feel it was in this case, I can live with it. Particularly since the alternative would be to make do with buying an older model or waiting longer for the handset.
Zuber

Just give us an example of one single gadget that was not rushed out of the door!
The iPhone? Hellooo, the original iPhone didn't even have 3G. Have you ever tried GPRS speed (Go to wireless settings and pick "2G only"), not even funny. Talk about being rushed out of the door!

and apple offered a free upgrade to the 3g version when it was released! So yes may have been rushed out the door but no financial gain in the long run.

Was this a free upgrade that did not involve commuting to a contract ?
If not, then its not free...
Zuber

the handsets weren't free in the first place... you want to split hairs then fine.

The uninformed might think Apple were so caring and generous that they were willing to swap out the phones for "no financial gain"...
You can say many things about Apple, but generous isn't one of them
Zuber

Zuber said:
The uninformed might think Apple were so caring and generous that they were willing to swap out the phones for "no financial gain"...
You can say many things about Apple, but generous isn't one of them
Zuber
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Agreed However i thought it wasn't a bad deal as i have always thought the handsets were a rip off...coming to think of it the tariffs are aswell. I work for network rail and get 30% off all o2 shop tariffs and i still opted for the hero on orange which was a miles better deal!
(sorry for the partial hi-jack! )

crash_194 said:
and apple offered a free upgrade to the 3g version when it was released!
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Free upgrade! Just sign on for another 12 months of the 60+EUR/month (AT&T US) plan

Ok, I was one of the early adoptors of Hero. I got it right after its launch and I didnt really had too many complains about the device.
I never ever bought any HTC phone hoping it to be perfect. I always bought HTC knowing it will not be a perfect device out of box but community efforts will make it much much better device over time.
This applies to WinMo devices, and android. Why do we have xda here???

If you ask me, it's actually a great device. I've had far worse :/
I think people kinda underestimate how difficult it is to make good software. And how difficult it is to properly test stuff like this as well.
Next to that, it's always a comprimise. They want the software to be good, but also get the device out as fast as possible. The faster a (good) device is out there, the better that is for HTC in this case. It's a very competitive market, there just isn't enough time to keep working on the software until it's perfect.
The software should be 'good enough' and not perfect. I'm 100% sure they have a bugtracker or something else to keep track of major and minor bugs. At some point someone has to make a decision what will and won't be fixed before launch. And what shall be fixed right after launch.
For a new OS with a new UI like on the Hero I think they did very very well on the first release.
Now I fully agree with the OP, the lag/speed issue with the first ROM was not in HTC's favour. It was something that came up in every review, and people still believe that's a big Hero issue even while it's fixed. On the other hand, there might have been more important things that were fixed during development.
Usually speed improvements and tweaking stuff like that is something you do last. Other bugs and stuff has to be fixed first.

I don't think HTC rushed the phone out the door. The software was good enough so the phone functioned as a phone. It's a smartphone designed with the capability to upgrade the software. As long as the hardware is good quality, then you can work with the software and polish it as you go along.
I never really noticed the lag - it's only put to shame when you compare it with the new software. Look at the problems people are having with the iPhone 3.1 software release and you should be thankful that HTC have actually first delivered useable phone software and then improved it only a month after release. And HTC got some nice innovations to boot with the first release. They were perhaps a bit ambitious with the first release - where the phone did a lot of things when it first came out of sleep or switched screens, including the clock "flipping" animation.

RaptorRVL said:
If you ask me, it's actually a great device. I've had far worse :/
I think people kinda underestimate how difficult it is to make good software. And how difficult it is to properly test stuff like this as well.
Next to that, it's always a comprimise. They want the software to be good, but also get the device out as fast as possible. The faster a (good) device is out there, the better that is for HTC in this case. It's a very competitive market, there just isn't enough time to keep working on the software until it's perfect.
The software should be 'good enough' and not perfect. I'm 100% sure they have a bugtracker or something else to keep track of major and minor bugs. At some point someone has to make a decision what will and won't be fixed before launch. And what shall be fixed right after launch.
For a new OS with a new UI like on the Hero I think they did very very well on the first release.
Now I fully agree with the OP, the lag/speed issue with the first ROM was not in HTC's favour. It was something that came up in every review, and people still believe that's a big Hero issue even while it's fixed. On the other hand, there might have been more important things that were fixed during development.
Usually speed improvements and tweaking stuff like that is something you do last. Other bugs and stuff has to be fixed first.
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Some of these bugs are quite known more or less right out of the box, for instance logging into the market, you couldn't do this unless you actually entered your google credentials when you first setup the phone.
People are going to compare the Hero with the likes of the iPhone, it's the only comparable handset out on the market at the moment. But what i'm afraid of is the lack of future support for the Hero, as yet another handset is on the horizon from HTC. OK, maybe Apple have got it right in respect of only having to supporting one handset (and very simalar firmwares, agreed) which means more time focusing on bug fixes and upgrades.
I hope HTC do not put the Hero to the back of the pile and focus on new handsets

Nexus One. We're being phased out, and quickly.

NOW! I know it is possibly too early to jump to conclusions, but I have recently been reading through some posts about how our Nexus One's are slowly, sadly and surely becoming obsolete. I agree with this theory in the fact that we aren't getting any love/support anymore. Granted, i know that Froyo is on the way, but i feel as though our hardware could have been better from the get-go, and that now (starting to become the long run since launch) it will be the death of this phone on a large basis. I feel as though Google has left us behind with some major issues, and has crippled the Nexus One name, purely because they seem like they don't want to deal with it anymore. Support is limited at that, and updates are scarce (one update to be exact, and even that OTA had problems), even for non-root users. Development, even though sometimes a tedious task, is moving slowly. We have a small selections of stable roms and thats about it. Nothing super fantastic (granted CyanogenMod and Modaco's ROMS are great, but not legendary), nothing special. I feel like there was more support for the (i hate to bring it in) iPhone in terms of the community and the modding experience.
Simply, I absolutely LOVE my Nexus One, but i feel like it is not getting the support it deserves, and i DO NOT want this beautiful piece of technology to be obsolete by september. i hope you guys are with me on this, because i think we all know that this phone could easily be something BETTER than what it is now. and it SHOULD be able to compete with any phone within a year from now because it's Google's baby. GOOGLE: GIVE US MORE for our phones and for our money. Because, even though i feel like this is the best phone i've ever had, 1) i feel like it'll be obsolete in a few months and 2) im starting to feel like i wasted my money.
long live nexus

+1 .......

The Nexus one will be the standard by which all android phones are measured for at-least another year.
Keeping everything pure AOSP is a huge plus IMO.
Official updates are slow, but code is being committed to the repository regularly and makes it on to the custom ROMS very quickly.
There is no phone out there with better features and community support than the one you have
There is no other phone on google.com/phone... so we are still the only child.

Google is trying to catch up the rest of the android world to 2.1
VZ cut them off it seems from the N1 and instead VZ gets another great Android handset.
Froyo has some much needed upgrades and will help (in theory) android solidify itself by stabilizing the platform for devs.
JIT/Flash/Market /Open GL / market upgrades are on there way if you believe the rumors.
What is it you feel is being phased out ?
Only about 500k users have an N1. Thats a miniscule amount.
Even with that we have two great devs putting out some very stable ROMS. Unlike the past N1 came with so many damn features out of box that we didnt need ROMs and Apps to add the 101 missing features.
Listen I am still up in Googles rectum about alot of features that need to be fixed/enhanced on Android. We all knew N1 was the first of the snapdragons. The others are storming in blasting taking attention away from us...but theyre all on the same team....they all bleed green =-)
Sure Id love to be slapping on Sense widgets , Moto Blur social network apps , etc...but thats up to us as a community to do it (if ever technically possible).
Anyways feel good about your purchase. You still have the best available phone on the market and will until the EVO/Iphone4G drop. And even then..youd still be top 3 at worst.

There isn't much development because there isn't much to do. The Nexus has the latest firmware and top specs. Of announced phones only the Evo and Galaxy S have significantly better specs everything else is just a SLIGHTLY upgraded Nexus. No porting apps or firmwares are needed. The only thing to really do is optimize what we have (cyanogen is doing that) and port sense UI (Paul is doing that). I'm happy with my Nexus .....for now hehe

zach I can understand the complaints about some of the nagging issues the phone has had (3G, purple tint etc.) but two things we have to realize: A majority of the users don't experience these problems, and in no way is our phone going to be obsolete anytime soon.
Here is a post I made regarding the Incredible screen, I think it's relevant here:
jasrups said:
Here's my take:
Would I like to have this screen in my Nexus? Yea it would have been a nice feature. Do I need this screen? No, not in the slightest.. Not yet anyways. The only apps that would require a screen like that are games, and I don't play the type of games on my phone that would require axis-crossing multitouch. I know some people do, and I can respect that but I don't, hence why I don't care about this right now.
Frankly, if you're playing those kinds of games anyways, just get an iPhone (and I'm not saying that in a bad way). iPhone is unmatched when it comes to gameplay and plus you can get them all for free if you jailbreak. Yea The Incredible has a capable screen, but do you know long it's going to take Android to catch up to Apple when it comes to game quality?? Android just got games like Racing Thunder 2 and Homerun Battle 3D while you can play Street Fighter 4 and freaking Grand Theft Auto on the iPhone! It's no competition.. if you want to game, you don't have the right phone.
By the time Android actually starts developing games and apps that can take advantage of the axis crossing MT, The Incredible will be "obsolete" (as some of you like to put it) so no need for everyone to get their panties in a bunch
With most things I normally have a realist perspective and am usually the first to 'hate' on something when its deserved, but alot of you guys are just a bunch of downers. The Incredible is a great phone as is the Nexus, everyone should just appreciate what they have! If you keep chasing the newest technology (no matter how impractical it is) you will never be satisfied!
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There will always be new technology coming out faster than we can keep up with, the important thing is to not prematurely write one product off as soon as a newer one becomes available. People will be saying the same thing about the Incredible/4G Evo etc in a few months from now. That's just the ways things are. If you have that mentality you will want a new phone every few months regardless of how good it is.
Regarding the selection of ROMS.. Guys, right now we have the top of the line OS on our phones.. 2.1 is the standard, most of the G1/Magic ROMS are trying to replicate what we already have stock. Believe me, once Froyo and Android 3.0 come out the devs will be right on it and we'll get awesome ports. We have great developers who will make sure our phones have the newest software on our devices.
And if worst comes to worst and some of you decide to sell your Nexus this summer, it will have excellent resale value.

Don't worry, This is the phone Google are actively giving to developers. We'll be here for a while to come yet.

Well
I most definetely do not believe the nexus one will be phased out anytime soon, actually i will be ordering one tonight as a matter of fact. yes we may not have the best touch screens or the greatest rom develipment, but that is because we are still number one There are no other builds to even create until phones of this caliber runnng other os are on the scene. And for the touch screen issue, whe the time comes to where we truely need multitouch for games on the market out nexus's WILL be outdated, or there WILL be a fix for this, i mean geez Cyanogen has nearly finished a fully working Eclair for the g1 already, all i see is hope and excitment for the future of this device, the market also needs some serious time to catch up to apples games (please dont get upset with this, its true) The only thing i can see actually outdating our phones are dual processors capable of OVER 1.5 otherwise i dont believe they will be extinct, not even the 1.3 samsung will hurt the nexus i think considering we can be oc'ed to 1.3 anyways i do believe, or at least close

I don't think that we're being phased out, not until another year. Each phone that comes in the market gets compared to Nexus One.
As far as the development is concerned, its very satisfactory. Comparing the development scene between N1 an iPhone, iPhone sold nearly 50x the units of N1 sold. So most app developers have their focus on iPhone as it stands them a better chance of making more money..... But still development on N1 is much better.....

jasrups said:
:
There will always be new technology coming out faster than we can keep up with, the important thing is to not prematurely write one product off as soon as a newer one becomes available. People will be saying the same thing about the Incredible/4G Evo etc in a few months from now. That's just the ways things are. If you have that mentality you will want a new phone every few months regardless of how good it is.
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+1
I’m beginning to think some people have never bought a phone before, or a computer for that matter.
Did people expect the N1 to the absolute top spec phone forever? Seriously its still amazing compared to most, and measures up nicely in all significant ways to these new phones it keeps getting compared to. Stop trying to bury it before its even close to dead.
There is always something newer coming. No exceptions. There are phones in development now that will top the Evo and Incredible. At some point you have to buy something or you’ll wait forever.
The N1 is Google’s flag ship phone. I bought it for that reason. If Google is developing something cool (like FroYo!) its pretty much guaranteed to come to us first. Its not being phased out. I think there are exciting things to come…

You have got to be kidding. Seriously?
zachthemaster said:
NOW! I know it is possibly too early to jump to conclusions, but I have recently been reading through some posts about how our Nexus One's are slowly, sadly and surely becoming obsolete. I agree with this theory
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How does the best Android phone currently on the market obsolete? You must be working from a totally different definition of "obsolete".
zachthemaster said:
in the fact that we aren't getting any love/support anymore.
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THAT must be why Google is giving Nexus Ones out to so many developers! Because they don't love it anymore and want to get rid of it!
zachthemaster said:
Granted, i know that Froyo is on the way, but i feel as though our hardware could have been better from the get-go, and that now (starting to become the long run since launch) it will be the death of this phone on a large basis.
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As if Froyo isn't a major undertaking.
In what way could the hardware have been better, without delaying the release of the phone?
zachthemaster said:
I feel as though Google has left us behind with some major issues, and has crippled the Nexus One name, purely because they seem like they don't want to deal with it anymore. Support is limited at that
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Are we talking about the same phone? In what way is it crippled?
Google has upped its support, hired more support personnel, and continues to present the N1 as its flagship phone. How does that equate to "they don't want to deal with it anymore"?
zachthemaster said:
and updates are scarce (one update to be exact, and even that OTA had problems), even for non-root users.
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How long has the N1 been out? Just how often did you expect an update? I think your expectations might be wildly unrealistic.
And "even for non-root users"!?! WTF does that mean? If anything, non-root users have far fewer updates -- rooted users are getting the updates from CM as soon as Google commits them to the source repository, whereas "even" implies that you expect non-root users to receive more updates, which is completely backwards.
zachthemaster said:
Development, even though sometimes a tedious task, is moving slowly. We have a small selections of stable roms and thats about it. Nothing super fantastic (granted CyanogenMod and Modaco's ROMS are great, but not legendary), nothing special.
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If you don't think CM is "super fantasic" then I invite you to go back to the stock N1 rom. Installing CM for the first time is like getting a whole new phone.
zachthemaster said:
I feel like there was more support for the (i hate to bring it in) iPhone in terms of the community and the modding experience.
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Somebody call the waaaaaaaaaahmbulance.

I don't buy it. I don't like the multitouch sensor they used for the phone, and I think the scrolling could be smoother, but what do you really expect from Google? Short of them sending out free hardware upgrades, what are you really looking for to not feel phased out?
The Nexus One is a great phone, at least for me. Even with the multitouch issues, I'm able to pull off running jumps when I play Super Mario World and the like. And that issue is allegedly being worked on with 2.2. If they flat out said the Nexus One wasn't getting 2.2 then you could make the claim of the Nexus One being phased out.
As far as network issues go, I have zero problems with my AT&T Nexus One and 3G. I live in the DC Metro area, for what it's worth. Most problems I've heard from people are all on T-Mobile. Who's to say the problem isn't on T-Mobile's side instead of Google's? Everyone blames AT&T's network for the iPhone's network issues, but it's pretty clear that the radio in the iPhone is garbage.
We live in a time where there are 1ghz processors in handheld devices. Technology is advancing so fast. It's always going to hurt when your $500+ dollar device isn't the best around anymore, but do you really want forward progress to slow down so you feel like you have the best phone longer?
I think you're being overly paranoid, if you ask me. So long as you love the phone, what do you care?

danguyf said:
You have got to be kidding. Seriously?
How does the best Android phone currently on the market obsolete? You must be working from a totally different definition of "obsolete".
THAT must be why Google is giving Nexus Ones out to so many developers! Because they don't love it anymore and want to get rid of it!
As if Froyo isn't a major undertaking.
In what way could the hardware have been better, without delaying the release of the phone?
Are we talking about the same phone? In what way is it crippled?
Google has upped its support, hired more support personnel, and continues to present the N1 as its flagship phone. How does that equate to "they don't want to deal with it anymore"?
How long has the N1 been out? Just how often did you expect an update? I think your expectations might be wildly unrealistic.
And "even for non-root users"!?! WTF does that mean? If anything, non-root users have far fewer updates -- rooted users are getting the updates from CM as soon as Google commits them to the source repository, whereas "even" implies that you expect non-root users to receive more updates, which is completely backwards.
If you don't think CM is "super fantasic" then I invite you to go back to the stock N1 rom. Installing CM for the first time is like getting a whole new phone.
Somebody call the waaaaaaaaaahmbulance.
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I didn't wanna quote the whole thing (sorry everyone) but this is the post of the year IMO!!!! Every counter argument you made is perfect.....This thread is BOGUS!!!!!!

You can't compare the modding/dev community of the N1 to the iPhone anyways.
The iphone has FAR more units out there, and the Apple cult is still buying. The iPhone also has more that is needed as far as mods to make it a nice OS.
The iPhone also runs native binaries, so there seem to be a lot more standard systems written for it, or so I was told in my Q&A thread. The iPhone has full apt packaging system, full set of GNU tools, full OpenSSH suite, etc.
The iPhone also has a lot more core teams of dedicated modders, while Android seems to have 1-2, at least for the N1. This is, again, I think due to the fact that the iPhone needs more mods to make it a good OS.

Without boobs, this thread is a waste of time.

Not even boobs can rescue the OP's post.

martin0285 said:
I didn't wanna quote the whole thing (sorry everyone) but this is the post of the year IMO!!!! Every counter argument you made is perfect.....This thread is BOGUS!!!!!!
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attn1 said:
Without boobs, this thread is a waste of time.
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I agree wholeheartedly with both of you.

zachthemaster said:
NOW! I know it is possibly too early to jump to conclusions, but I have recently been reading through some posts about how our Nexus One's are slowly, sadly and surely becoming obsolete.
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Can you link these posts?
How is the N1 becoming obsolete? What are your reasons? I have yet to see any indication of this.
updates are scarce (one update to be exact, and even that OTA had problems), even for non-root users.
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What kind of crap is this? Yes, the N1 has received 1 update. Which is 1 more than MANY other Android phones in YEARS.
Development, even though sometimes a tedious task, is moving slowly.
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Here's the Android source code:
http://android.git.kernel.org/
Get to work!
GOOGLE: GIVE US MORE for our phones and for our money
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Give more WHAT?

Enjoy the wave for as long as it lasts... which will be a long time
Tech wise phones go obsolete much faster than a PC ever would for the simple fact that you are in a closed environment. You can't upgrade the RAM, graphics or CPU on one of these things so shelf life is in terms of months not years. But that's not to say that support will go away for the N1 any time soon. OP is just acknowledging/exhibiting the mid-life crisis that the N1 is in currently. It's still the flagship product and a benchmark for every phone slated to be released this year. Next year may be different--hell I'm sure it will be--but for now, we're good and there's enough power that it'll still be viable 2 years from now. If you need a current tangible example, just look at how many G1's there are out there and how long that phone has been out.
I came from the dismally dysfunctional land of the Epix from Samsung where between them and AT&T, they couldn't figure out who was suppose to be doing the obligatory reach-around. With the N1 there are no more worries about the carrier holding up the updates for a fix to a major problem introduced by another fix almost a year prior for an infantile notification issue., there are no more issues with contractual obilgations to corporate partnerships (Yahoo) with draconian imposed restrictions to enforce it(backflip) and mostly there's no more waiting for the mfg to finally update their license to a newer version OS if they even bother going that route to begin with. Open architecture, open software and an infinite amount of potential for old and new phones is why I'm here and I'm sure a bunch of others are too.
So to anyone else reading this and especially to Sprint customers that are waiting for the N1, catch the wave however you want(N1, Evo, etc) but enjoy it for what it is--a long great ride and loads of fun--cowabunga!

Did somebody say boobs? Er, was I supposed to get something else out of this?

Idea about demanding some answers

why don't we do the same thing like the guys wil LG Optimus did? they posted questions all over their Facebook site and Twitter.... how about a group effort to do the same?

We've done that in the past with various phones. Samsung/Sprint just don't seem to care.

othan1 said:
We've done that in the past with various phones. Samsung/Sprint just don't seem to care.
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Well let's do it again. These phones are Samsung's best sellers. We should be able to give them a run for their money. I didn't pay 500$ for an antiquity(YES i bought it).

apatcas said:
Well let's do it again. These phones are Samsung's best sellers. We should be able to give them a run for their money. I didn't pay 500$ for an antiquity(YES i bought it).
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Bought mine too - but it really didn't get anything solved for the 1.5 Hero kernel source - they still released it on their own schedule.

you know im just impressed that this worked for LG and when i even suggest this here everyone just gives the **** up... i mean really? do you think it will hurt our chances to get an update? people are so used to taking **** and just eating it up.
nothing in this world will just coincidently land in your lap.
here's the link... http://www.facebook.com/SamsungGalaxyS
I asked. didn't hurt me to type. then again i actually fought for a lot of stuff in life.

Its not about eating he piles of utter bs they feed us with a snow shovel, its the simple fact that they will release it on their own internal schedule and unless your giving the project manager head under his desk 9-5 then the ammount you ***** about the update matters to them about as much as one of their 8 year old production line workers complaining that they are hungry or just lost a finger in a machine. Complain all you want, they have their cash now and they can do as they please. Now wether or not what they do is a good business decision for keeping and maintaining a happy customer base is a totally different situation. In all actuality the people on this and other SGS boards are in the minority, just audible enough to cause a fuss and make them release a generic statement that all public companies would that won't effect stock prices. The other 70% of customers couldn't give two air ****s what 2.2 is or what the hell kernel or source actually mean othe than popcorn and original copy.
Now as far as it working for LG. You show m where they said "no you can't have it" and then said "ok well you *****ed and threatend law suits enough here it is" I may believe that they actually released it based on consumer pressure and demands, other wise they did the same thing every company does. Develop a product, change their mind 7 times a week, finally get something that is "ok" but in all reality is mediocre because of the politics involved internally, test it, fix it, lather, rinse, repeat as necessary, release to the customer and in the process shut the people up who are *****ing and won't be happy even when its done because someones $15 dollar sub standard blue tooth headset won't pair or an app in the market that used to work fine fcs now.
/rant
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

Like I've said before: Sprint has people deliberately "leak" updates to quiet down the tech crowd by throwing them a bone now and again. We also do their beta testing for them on a large scale. Do you think that Sprint engineers don't comb these boards for good ideas?
Sent from hell...

Top Nurse said:
Like I've said before: Sprint has people deliberately "leak" updates to quiet down the tech crowd by throwing them a bone now and again. We also do their beta testing for them on a large scale. Do you think that Sprint engineers don't comb these boards for good ideas?
Sent from hell...
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Ofcourse they do,thats buisness...And the real reason 2.2/2.2.1 didnt come out sooner,work really didnt start till about a month and a half ago,and there is still no real rush.Have you noticed how many EVO commercials are on tv now,and pretty much no more epic commercials.Its because they need to sell as many of those phones as possible for reasons unknown.But there is a big push to sell those phones.Yes they held back on 2.2 to patch some things in 2.2.1,mostly root,but that was like 3 days extra work at most.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

Lots of ROMs, theming and tweaking, BUT what about REAL IMPROVING?

These days, I'm seeing lots of supposed teams tossing zillions of ROMs that are no real improvement. I think I have tried 1 out 2 and I stopped the flashing game after I realized they are almost the same dog with a different collar.
Am I the only one? Is our Vibrant a stalled device in terms of REAL development? Come on, boys, less theming and more real improving!!

You're kidding, right?
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

I'm not kidding. Can you name a ROM that is not CM7 that is making real improvements like proper GPS with sensors and no path-sliding in Gingerbread, improved battery, no problems entering deep sleep and being fast?
Any ROM GB ROM that doesn't not suck, lasting less than 15 hours with moderate use?

You wanna go beg samsung to release source? Wait. Dont. By the way you type, you seem like a genius that can build us a source!

JMN... everyone jumped ship and started working on Gingerbread... without anything specific for our phone. I guess you could say we are stalled in that regard. Nobody wants 2.2.... and the 2.3.+ roms are missing a lot of the key things needed for what you seek. It is what it is.
Go pester T-Mobile and Samsung, not XDA/community/developers.
I do.

If it were as easy as you make it seem, I am sure our Vibrant would have a 100% working CM7 right now. Problem is, it isn't. We don't have any source code for Gingerbread, our GPS is from a half-baked file for the Galaxy S 4G, and Samsung decided to use several proprietary loops inside their source code that make the code counter-intuitive. As a result, our developers basically have to reverse engineer a good portion of the code itself.

Or you are more than welcome to start working on it yourself. Seems as up until JVQ dropped on I9000 I was the only one actually doing anything (with of course a couple other good people dropping in from time to time). From April until now we went from a build that was barely usable for more than a couple hours to builds that are definite daily drivers. Granted there are still some flaws but with less than a handful of people do any real developing on what free time we do have and for no incentive other than the thank you button and occasional donation I'd say we're doing pretty damn good.
In the words of someone famous you're either part of the solution or you're part of the problem. Which are you going be?
EDIT: My statement above is putting CM7/MIUI aside, different animal/problems/features/pluses/minuses.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA Premium App

I dunno man, I found a ROM that does everything that you listed. What you're asking is a lot of development time for marginal improvements.
Sent from my HTC Sensation

So what do you gotta say now bro?
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

its not that easy to build a rom thats so great people build on xda some can be slightly better than others but hey thats why u get updates, if ur looking for good battery life on gb use an i9000 port like simplyhoney and u wont be mad about the battery life on the other hand i use cm7 and have been on it ever since nightlies started being released i will tell u it came a long way from no gps and battery drain to a half working gps which is still functional to decent battery life and i am grateful for all the hard work but into it

Funny seems like JMN went silent!
I think he got served!
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA Premium App

Biting the hands that feed... smh

OK, OK.
Please, forgive me for my anger being unleashed. Maybe it was that I see newer devices having a plethora of updates and improvements, or maybe because with my previous device (HTC Polaris running Windows Mobile 6) there was a man (XDA member know as DZO) that reverse engineered it, driver by driver to make a fully fledged Android device.
I ask you for your understanding, and hope you pardon me. You're right: the real problem here is that T-Mobile and Samsung abandoned the Vibrant to its own luck.
Lots of devs jumped ships because of that. I don't make them guilty about this situation, although I did in my first post. Sorry about that.
I'm a dev myself, but not so low level. I cannot compile drivers or reverse engineer. Otherwise, I would really like to collaborate with Atinm and the others.
Please, don't abandon or blame the Vibrant and other Galaxy S devices and try to squeeze all the juice out of it. If we all switch to the latest device, manufacturers will always laugh at us selling slightly different hardware, not upgrades for our totally capable devices.
Nothing more to add. Sorry for my rough and disrespectful words I wrote before. Long live XDA-Devs.

My fellows, I went to the T-Mobile USA facebook site (http://www.facebook.com/TMobile) and published this on their wall:
"SHAME ON YOU, T-MOBILE! Where is Gingerbread for the T-Mobile VIBRANT???? Do you ever care about your users? Do you think we will eat every phone you release with no questions and wishing NO SUPPORT? We do buy devices with future in mind. A ONE-year-device has been ditched away because you are too busy selling the so called 4G version. Too obvious you're playing with us, playing the "buy me and forget me" game. Sorry, but never again to you, T-Mobile, or whatever you will be called after the merger."
I hope you could support me or write comments criticizing the way T-Mobile is acting upon us.
Thanks.

I just re-posted your message on T-Mobiles Facebook site. Not too sure where yours went. Maybe they deleted it.

Thanks a lot, dude. They have the site configured so you cannot see the posts that users write on the wall until you explicitly reveal them using the "Most recent" option (link http://www.facebook.com/TMobile?sk=wall&filter=1). It's there, I think. We need to cry out loud.

I absolutely approve of telling T-Mobile we are tired of waiting.....
Gingerbread = Security.

I posted this on their facebook, all we can do is hope one day they get the point.
"T-mobile, you have a very loyal customer base that bought one of 2010's best smartphones, the Samsung Vibrant. However, with the release of the Samsung Vibrant 4g, we have been left in the dark and seemingly ignored regarding security updates and notifications, specifically the gingerbread 2.3 update. We buy devices with the future in mind, and expect to have full support for the devices we spend our hard earned money on. We know that Samsung awaits your instruction to push the updates, and we respectfully request you do so immediately, in order to be up to date on stability, security, and support. This situation has bothered and frustrated many in the Vibrant community, we only ask that you extinguish that fire by providing us the update we deserve and earned, by being your customers."

people will never learn...
they cannot support devices forever. it seems like every single person thinks that once they buy a smartphone, they are guaranteed lifetime support. the cell phone industry is one of the fastest growing industries in the world. i would much rather them cut off my support and have a beast upgrade waiting for me, rather than them focus on constantly rolling out updates for every single device theyve ever created just to shut up *****y consumers. think about it, getting stuck with an outdated device makes it all that much better once you get your upgrade! its amazing im saying this, as i despise corporate america.
i realize the vibrant is just over a year removed, BUT THIS HAPPENS WITH EVERY SINGLE DEVICE. i guarantee if you go to ANY other forum for a device that is 1+ years old, 95% of them will be filled with threads like this. update this, update that, fix this, release this blahblahiwantmybottleblahblah. its not JUST tmobile. its not JUST samsung. these accusations are so narrow-minded. what would happen if they released gingerbread??? two months later, the cry babies would be right back in full swing, "wheres honeycomb?? release honeycomb source!!" it has to end somewhere, you can never satisfy everybody, let alone ANYBODY in the vibrant forum.
its the industry. its the way it works, so stop acting like we are the only ones who are "suffering". its such an ignorant, narcissistic way of looking at it. enjoy what you got, nothings ever built to last. youre "stuck" with a damn good device, it is what you make it. weekly threads begging for gingerbread, or ****ting on tmobile/samsung is clearly not getting it done. so maybe people should be spending their time differently instead of constantly *****ing: get familiar with linux, learn to compile/decompile, learn to theme...its amazing how much fun (yes, without source!) youll be able to have once you learn some stuff. keep yourself busy creating new things, youll take more pride in your device knowing its something that YOU created, as opposed to trolling around and downloading anything you can get your sticky fingers on.
gingerbread isnt here....but neither is the end of the world.

TopShelf10 said:
people will never learn...
they cannot support devices forever. it seems like every single person thinks that once they buy a smartphone, they are guaranteed lifetime support. the cell phone industry is one of the fastest growing industries in the world. i would much rather them cut off my support and have a beast upgrade waiting for me, rather than them focus on constantly rolling out updates for every single device theyve ever created just to shut up *****y consumers. think about it, getting stuck with an outdated device makes it all that much better once you get your upgrade! its amazing im saying this, as i despise corporate america.
i realize the vibrant is just over a year removed, BUT THIS HAPPENS WITH EVERY SINGLE DEVICE. i guarantee if you go to ANY other forum for a device that is 1+ years old, 95% of them will be filled with threads like this. update this, update that, fix this, release this blahblahiwantmybottleblahblah. its not JUST tmobile. its not JUST samsung. these accusations are so narrow-minded. what would happen if they released gingerbread??? two months later, the cry babies would be right back in full swing, "wheres honeycomb?? release honeycomb source!!" it has to end somewhere, you can never satisfy everybody, let alone ANYBODY in the vibrant forum.
its the industry. its the way it works, so stop acting like we are the only ones who are "suffering". its such an ignorant, narcissistic way of looking at it. enjoy what you got, nothings ever built to last. youre "stuck" with a damn good device, it is what you make it. weekly threads begging for gingerbread, or ****ting on tmobile/samsung is clearly not getting it done. so maybe people should be spending their time differently instead of constantly *****ing: get familiar with linux, learn to compile/decompile, learn to theme...its amazing how much fun (yes, without source!) youll be able to have once you learn some stuff. keep yourself busy creating new things, youll take more pride in your device knowing its something that YOU created, as opposed to trolling around and downloading anything you can get your sticky fingers on.
gingerbread isnt here....but neither is the end of the world.
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Click to collapse
To be honest, support for the Vibrant has been pretty much nonexistent from T-Mobile, I don't think it's too much to ask for a GB ROM from them and Samsung, had T-Mobile been into providing us service instead of trying to sell out we could have had a beter chance at some real support.

From the inside looking out...

I'm sure for many people, the last 24 hours has sucked in regards to SHIELD. I know for me it has. And even more frustrating is the lack of communication and transparency that should be expected from a large corporation who cares about its customers. Obviously, I feel the anger and frustration that is being vented both in the geforce forums and, to a lesser extent, over here on XDA. And I have no other outlet than XDA. First, and foremost, realize that the decision to delay the product, the reasons behind it, and the execution of the delay are unrelated. I, along with many, feel they really messed up on the execution of the announcement. Am I disappointed? Of course I am. There are hundreds of engineers around the world who have been putting in long hours for months (some of us, even over a year) to make this product. This is a passion for us. I, personally, involved myself into community aspects of the device. For example, I was one of the voices asking for the device to be unlockable. And NVIDIA didn't put up a fight for it, they agreed. Deep down, the heart of the company wants the best for everyone.
I'd like to answer a few questions that I ask myself, as a developer and a member of the XDA community:
1. Do you plan to run CM on the device, and why?
This is always a very important question for me while at work. This question is important because it represents all the shortcomings I feel exist in the product. But I'm not the average user, I'm an XDA member. That means that additional settings do not scare me. Ease of use can be reduced in the name of more advanced functionality. And Google Certification is a requirement that CM doesn't have. But I think deeply about every feature I want from a custom ROM, and what the product should do. Ultimately, yes, I plan to install CM. And it is because of the advanced tweaks available in CM that don't belong in a standard user device.
2. Do you think the device is worth it?
Do I think the device is worth the long hours, the stress, the loss of my personal development time (which is why I had to mostly drop the EVO 3D), and the time away from my kids? Obviously, that question also has the benefits I've gotten, like attending CES and Google I/O. But ultimately, I still work on it, and I still want it to be the best it can be. So the answer has to be yes.
3. This whole debacle is ridiculous, shouldn't I just cancel my pre-order? NVIDIA obviously doesn't know how to launch a product...
This comes back to the earlier message. Engineers build a product, marketing sells a product, and the company as a whole is represented by the product. The mistakes made in the messaging and delays don't represent the engineering and product, they represent a company which still has some lessons in releasing a customer product. It's easy to get emotionally wrapped up in it, because the disappointment so close to the release. And I'm not immune. If anything, I've also got the disappointment in the world finally getting to see what we've done and use it. That's why I'm writing this thread, because it helps me express my feelings in a constructive way.
4. What would you change?
I'm slowly becoming disenchanted with Google's AOSP design. While I love the product being so close to AOSP, it reminds me how ugly AOSP really is. I don't want something like Sense or Touchwiz. What I want is AOSP, but sharper looking and using the graphical power of modern devices. Does everything really need a flat gray look? TWRP looks ugly to me, compared to the install phase of 4EXT. Halo is outdated and sad-looking. I want glass effects, I want sharp text and lines. I want to feel like the display is sharp and crisp while in the launcher and settings. I want my settings to have tabs (like MIUI used to have, maybe still does?) for the different areas. But again, the goal is to line up with AOSP, which I can respect.
Ok, so I'm out of questions and I'm feeling a bit better. If you have questions for me, be my guest... I'll do my best to answer, and when I can't, I'll do my best to get an official answer...

agrabren said:
I'm sure for many people, the last 24 hours has sucked in regards to SHIELD. I know for me it has. And even more frustrating is the lack of communication and transparency that should be expected from a large corporation who cares about its customers. Obviously, I feel the anger and frustration that is being vented both in the geforce forums and, to a lesser extent, over here on XDA. And I have no other outlet than XDA. First, and foremost, realize that the decision to delay the product, the reasons behind it, and the execution of the delay are unrelated. I, along with many, feel they really messed up on the execution of the announcement. Am I disappointed? Of course I am. There are hundreds of engineers around the world who have been putting in long hours for months (some of us, even over a year) to make this product. This is a passion for us. I, personally, involved myself into community aspects of the device. For example, I was one of the voices asking for the device to be unlockable. And NVIDIA didn't put up a fight for it, they agreed. Deep down, the heart of the company wants the best for everyone.
I'd like to answer a few questions that I ask myself, as a developer and a member of the XDA community:
1. Do you plan to run CM on the device, and why?
This is always a very important question for me while at work. This question is important because it represents all the shortcomings I feel exist in the product. But I'm not the average user, I'm an XDA member. That means that additional settings do not scare me. Ease of use can be reduced in the name of more advanced functionality. And Google Certification is a requirement that CM doesn't have. But I think deeply about every feature I want from a custom ROM, and what the product should do. Ultimately, yes, I plan to install CM. And it is because of the advanced tweaks available in CM that don't belong in a standard user device.
2. Do you think the device is worth it?
Do I think the device is worth the long hours, the stress, the loss of my personal development time (which is why I had to mostly drop the EVO 3D), and the time away from my kids? Obviously, that question also has the benefits I've gotten, like attending CES and Google I/O. But ultimately, I still work on it, and I still want it to be the best it can be. So the answer has to be yes.
3. This whole debacle is ridiculous, shouldn't I just cancel my pre-order? NVIDIA obviously doesn't know how to launch a product...
This comes back to the earlier message. Engineers build a product, marketing sells a product, and the company as a whole is represented by the product. The mistakes made in the messaging and delays don't represent the engineering and product, they represent a company which still has some lessons in releasing a customer product. It's easy to get emotionally wrapped up in it, because the disappointment so close to the release. And I'm not immune. If anything, I've also got the disappointment in the world finally getting to see what we've done and use it. That's why I'm writing this thread, because it helps me express my feelings in a constructive way.
4. What would you change?
I'm slowly becoming disenchanted with Google's AOSP design. While I love the product being so close to AOSP, it reminds me how ugly AOSP really is. I don't want something like Sense or Touchwiz. What I want is AOSP, but sharper looking and using the graphical power of modern devices. Does everything really need a flat gray look? TWRP looks ugly to me, compared to the install phase of 4EXT. Halo is outdated and sad-looking. I want glass effects, I want sharp text and lines. I want to feel like the display is sharp and crisp while in the launcher and settings. I want my settings to have tabs (like MIUI used to have, maybe still does?) for the different areas. But again, the goal is to line up with AOSP, which I can respect.
Ok, so I'm out of questions and I'm feeling a bit better. If you have questions for me, be my guest... I'll do my best to answer, and when I can't, I'll do my best to get an official answer...
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thanks man!
am i sad about the delay? yeah a little. but i respect Nvidia as a company and I know they can deliver. and if they need an extra month(or 4) to do so, im perfectly ok with it. from the gpu's to the specs to the videos, websites and drivers.. i love almost everything about Nvidia and a botched release date is NOT going to make me cancel my pre-order.
I hope nvidia uses this time to add/optimize a few extra streamable games

Excuse me for the non-Shield related question, I just wanted to know if you definetly dropped the EVO 3D or in future you probably come back..of course you don't have to give a single explaination to anybody, but if you won't develop anymore for evo, probably I will change device because there isn't a fully functional and stable rom (with or without 3D) with a new version of jelly bean and I have to stuck on the old Android 4.0..I appreciate the efforts that many developers are still making for this quite-old device, but some bugs probably won't never be fixed without you (i'm talking about battery drain, bootloops..).
Sorry for the off topic..

I know delays can happen. What frustrates me is the short notice and the fact that specs in the mobile world get outdated in about 6 months. I want this device while it is the cream of the crop as far as specifications are concerned. I don't think it was a coincidence that Gamestop had the release date listed as 6/30 for awhile.

Evo_Shift said:
I know delays can happen. What frustrates me is the short notice and the fact that specs in the mobile world get outdated in about 6 months. I want this device while it is the cream of the crop as far as specifications are concerned. I don't think it was a coincidence that Gamestop had the release date listed as 6/30 for awhile.
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The 6/30 release date was because we listed "by the end of June" as our target launch date before we made had set a hard launch date. So GameStop did the obvious: June has 30 days, so it ships June 30th.

gigsaw said:
Excuse me for the non-Shield related question, I just wanted to know if you definetly dropped the EVO 3D or in future you probably come back..of course you don't have to give a single explaination to anybody, but if you won't develop anymore for evo, probably I will change device because there isn't a fully functional and stable rom (with or without 3D) with a new version of jelly bean and I have to stuck on the old Android 4.0..I appreciate the efforts that many developers are still making for this quite-old device, but some bugs probably won't never be fixed without you (i'm talking about battery drain, bootloops..).
Sorry for the off topic..
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Click to collapse
My future on the EVO 3D is on a feature-by-feature basis. As was pointed out accurately, since I don't run the OS as a daily, I don't see the issues like I did when it was my primary device.