Database Users

Do you feel like a paying tester?

Hi,
I previously used the Wizard and really have to say I miss Windows Mobile meanwhile. So when I first heard about the HD I really was excited as it seemed to be the ideal gadget. Although bigger than most phones not too big, a wonderful screen and so on.
My first disappointment came when I realised HTC hadnt used a capacitive screen, but after all this would have been a minor issue. However meanwhile I am almost convinced I will not get an HD due to all the problems people reported about it.
I do not want to spend EUR 600 for something which is chipping after two days of careful usage. Similarly I am not too fond of "constant" freezes of the system itself. Also the mentioned performance issues (mostly in the multimedia related area) do not look very well for such a device.
All this and a few other smaller things along with the non-capacitive screen made me really reconsider my purchase. I am aware that many do not experience these problems, but there are far too many such complaints for me to really risk entering the game.
I am really disappointed as it seemed like a perfect phone initially. At the moment I am waiting for the Asus P565 or the Glaxy7 respectively for the next generation of the M8.
Would you say my concerns are valid? Somehow it seems many are not paid testers but actually paying ones.
Thanks.

I bought HTC's "flagship" phone last year, the Tytn II, and all I can say is the forum here seems very reminiscent of the Kaiser forum back then - lots of people wanting to believe they've paid top dollar for the "ultimate" phone, while so many more people report problem after problem. Dissapointing video and multimedia, questionable build quality, freezing, issues with the GPS - all very familiar.
I believe HTC is trading on a reputation for quality which it no longer deserves. There's no question it's made a number of excellent devices in the past, but I don't believe it's carried that tradition on in the last year or so - their Qualcomm powered devices in particular (like the Tytn II onwards) have generally dissapointed. There's the famous driver issue of course, which I believe still affects the HD to some extent (it has some drivers, but they don't appear to be very good), but moreover the general performance of these chips just doesn't seem to match those used in previous generations, like the original Tytn.
There'll be the usual attempts to shore up HTC's unfinished efforts here with cooked ROMs for the HD soon appearing, just as they did for the Tytn II, but as before there's only so much the devs here can do without anything much to go on - they lack the raw materials in the form of drivers etc themselves. I've tried various ROMs for the Kaiser, none of them truly satisfied, and none of them genuinely improved performance IMO. It can take several months for any real progress to be made, by which time both you and the devs involved will be starting to look for the next phone anyway.

MAK11 said:
You guys need some ***** in your lifes. Get out more..
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Click to collapse
..........haha

Maybe you should learn to give helpful replies respectively how to behave in a community MAK.

The Hd is my first HTC phone, so I haven't been spoiled by their previous efforts. Mine hasn't chipped and it hasn't frozen once. I'm really enjoying the phone, although it takes some tinkering to get the most out of it obviously - not perhaps a phone for the masses.
The screen looks great, but the responsiveness of the screen is nothing like (ie not as good as) the iphone of course.
Petrov.

My last five phones have all been HTC devices. I started with the SPV M500 then a Blue Angel, Universal, TyTN II and I have recently moved on to a HD. I would just like to redress the balance somewhat.
I have had no quality or reliability issues since my first HTC device, the SPV M500 nor have I had with the HD (2 weeks). All my phones have been worked hard as business devices and I consider that I have always got a very good return on my investment in them.
HTC have been at the leading edge of Windows Mobile device development and have continuously raised the bar with each new device. The HD is a fine example of this. The technology media were salivating at the thought of this device in the weeks and months leading up to its release and judging by the content of the majority of reviews they have not been disappointed. I still marvel at how good this device is and have no doubt will continue to improve as the customized ROMs start to kick in.
There is always a price to pay for being an early adopter and that price is having to accept that there will always be a relatively small amount of development issues in the early days after a product has been released (and we are very much still in the early phase of the HDs life-cycle). There has to be a trade off on the part of the manufacturer in terms of time spent testing a device prior to release and getting a device to market before the technology is overtaken by developments.
It's a fact that people who are happy and content with their devices are a lot less likely to post messages on forums stating this than those with a gripe. This should be borne in mind when weighing up opinions based on forum postings.

MAK11 said:
You guys need some ***** in your lifes. Get out more..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, the abuse is pretty old too, there's plenty of that in the Kaiser section. It's not easy to take the ***** highground on one of the geekiest forums on earth, but if you've just been jipped on a disappointing phone and someone's pointing out your mistake, I guess it's natural to try.

drzoid said:
My first disappointment came when I realised HTC hadnt used a capacitive screen,
chipping after two days of careful usage.
not too fond of "constant" freezes of the system itself.
Also the mentioned performance issues (mostly in the multimedia related area).
All this and a few other smaller things along with the non-capacitive screen made me really reconsider my purchase. I am aware that many do not experience these problems, but there are far too many such complaints for me to really risk entering the game.
I am really disappointed as it seemed like a perfect phone initially. At the moment I am waiting for the Asus P565 or the Glaxy7 respectively for the next generation of the M8.
Would you say my concerns are valid? Somehow it seems many are not paid testers but actually paying ones.
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Vast majority of the users here do not experience any of the problems you mentioned if you look at the polls conducted. Very small percentage of users do experience it, so you must decide if the risk is worth taking.
Vast majority of the users are extremely satisfied with the device, this is a fact.
So, you need to make your own decision. If you believe there is a device more suited to your need, you should wait for it.
I do not think you're going to find too many people agreeing with your conclusion here though.
On the other hand, if you go to the Asus or iPhone forums, you may find many people supporting your views, but not on this forum.

People are more likely to come forward with problems than if they have no issues. Why not start a poll, you might find that the majority are happy.

patp said:
People are more likely to come forward with problems than if they have no issues. Why not start a poll, you might find that the majority are happy.
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Exactly.
In fact, we already have a few polls specifically for those and the results are plain for all to see.

Thanks Petrov and Tony. As I mentioned I know there are many who never experienced the stated problems, but dont you think the amount of people reporting the same problems over and over again (chipping and freezing in particular) hasnt reached already a number which might indicate an actual problem in the manufacturing process?
eaglesteve said:
so you must decide if the risk is worth taking.
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To be honest, at the moment I am definitely not willing to take the risk. This might change but currently all those reports about the mentioned issues do not convince me unfortunately.
eaglesteve said:
On the other hand, if you go to the Asus or iPhone forums, you may find many people supporting your views, but not on this forum.
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Where does the Apple forum come from? I did not even mentioned this phone.
As to the three I mentioned they are actually Windows Mobile phone, although from another manufacturer. I just mentioned they would very interesting alternatives.

patp said:
People are more likely to come forward with problems than if they have no issues. Why not start a poll, you might find that the majority are happy.
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Click to collapse
But then where does the chipping and freezing come from?

eaglesteve said:
Vast majority of the users here do not experience any of the problems you mentioned if you look at the polls conducted. Very small percentage of users do experience it, so you must decide if the risk is worth taking.
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Click to collapse
Hmm. 38% have scratches already: http://forum.xda-developers.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=1122
More than 60% suffer hangs ("frequent" hangs for more than 25%): http://forum.xda-developers.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=1111
Where is this very small percentage you speak of?

drzoid said:
Where does the Apple forum come from? I did not even mentioned this phone.
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Click to collapse
No, this isn't directed at you.

Please bear in mind when reading reviews that everyone needs and expectations are different. I agree that this is not the perfect phone and I know that one will never be created.. but if you take all the phones on the market at the moment (with all there faults) then HTC HD is amongs the top. I rarely have freezes and no scratches etc. so for me I am happy with my purchase. I also look forward to improvement that the talented developers in these forum will offer now and in the near future.

prpmlp said:
Please bear in mind when reading reviews that everyone needs and expectations are different.
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Click to collapse
True, but not true in terms of chipping and freezing. Nobody expects those .

Boinng said:
Hmm. More than half have scratches already: http://forum.xda-developers.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=1122
More than 60% suffer hangs ("frequent" hangs for more than a quarter): http://forum.xda-developers.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=1111
Where is this very small percentage you speak of?
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Click to collapse
You can choose to interpret the result anyway you want to suit your already made up conclusion.
Vast number of people give this device 7,8,9,10 rating out of 10.
Device hanging happens but it does not necessarily bother us. I see 8% of the people bothered by it. You see 60% of people "suffer" hangs. If that pleases you, by all means.
We're not going to get a perfect device today. What we have here is the best in existence for many people because it suits their needs best. Yes, it chips and peels to varying degree, but overall still pleased with it.

I'm with mrpetrov and tonyblack on this one...
(EDIT - sorry, and all others who replied in the same vein since I started typing!)
The HD is also my first HTC device, and also my first WM device too.
I would most definately agree that it is not a phone for the masses, and this is probably equally true of HTC's previous devices.
However, the media (and to a certain extent HTC too) have hyped this phone up - typically with 'iPhone killer' tags.
Whist I'm most definately NOT going to get into that tired old argument again , it is true that there is the potential for a large number of people to stumble across the HD as being (on the face of it) a viable alternative to the iPhone.
There will be a number of those people who are disappointed - out of the box, for a novice smartphone user who simply wants to phone / text / play music / browse the web and watch videos, then the HD probably isn't as polished, or easy to use.
These people won't care about, or will be too frightened to find somewhere like this place to work out how to fix and tweak.
So. Back to the point of the OP
Do I feel like a 'paying tester'?
A bit, I guess, yes.
But (and this is not necessarily a good thing, just the way things are), this is nearly always the case for early adopters now.
Xbox 360 - early boxes overheat and get the Red Rings of Death.
iPhone - first versions come without 3G
My previous car (8th gen UK Civic) - early models had rear suspension springs installed up side down, fuel caps got stuck closed, built in hands free mic was rubbish.
These things all got fixed over time - but there is absolutely NO way that the manufacturers hadn't noticed them when the release deadline came around.
Someone somewhere said "right then. We HAVE to release this on such and such a date"
"But boss - we haven't finished testing yet!"
"Tough. The PS3 / iPhone 3G / BMW 1 series is out there, or about to be out there, and we need to get something on the market before we loose all our customers"
"But we'll loose them anyway if it blows up!"
"That's why they pay me the big bucks sonny - now hurry up and finish testing what you can"
*
Or something along those lines anyway
Long story (yes, apols for the length of this post!) short - if you want a solid, reliable product that is relatively bug free, then don't buy it on day 1.
* Please note that this conversation was added purely for the purpose of illusttration and probably didn't take place exactly as stated here, or indeed might not have taken place at all, especially at the offices of Microsoft, Honda or Apple. Or any other large corporate who might otherwise be thinking of trying to sue me!

TTDegs said:
I would most definately agree that it is not a phone for the masses, and this is probably equally true of HTC's previous devices.
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Click to collapse
I wasnt looking for such a phone but I expect reliability and the chipping and freezing stories let me think I cant have it from the HD.
TTDegs said:
But (and this is not necessarily a good thing, just the way things are), this is nearly always the case for early adopters now.
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This is probably true, even though this doesnt make it more right.

HD compared to...
It would appear, that there seems to be a bit of both sides here.
Whilst it can be said, that some devices have really failed the user, and shortcuts appear to have been taken instead of holding back that little bit more.
The HTC club, allows certain content to be downloaded but not other due to your phone supplier. At the end of the day, small things like this tend to stick in the minds of their potential buyers.
My diamond's lasted 3 months (1 handset per month), HTC wouldnt assist, their advice buy a bigger battery, no problems reported. failure to reply to emails.
Every UK phone provider are aware of the battery short comings.
My provider actually realised the issue's with batteries, and put their hands in their pockets, bought a huge battery bank, the diamond ate it, like a beast and wanted more...
Orange UK, wrote the handset off, and agreed to supply & restart contract, due to the problems of the handset.
HTC did nothing!
I have had 4 htc devices - Orange branded M3100, best device, TyTnII, slipping, Diamond - total Avalanche, And now the HD, hope this is better, but only time will tell.

Nexus One. We're being phased out, and quickly.

NOW! I know it is possibly too early to jump to conclusions, but I have recently been reading through some posts about how our Nexus One's are slowly, sadly and surely becoming obsolete. I agree with this theory in the fact that we aren't getting any love/support anymore. Granted, i know that Froyo is on the way, but i feel as though our hardware could have been better from the get-go, and that now (starting to become the long run since launch) it will be the death of this phone on a large basis. I feel as though Google has left us behind with some major issues, and has crippled the Nexus One name, purely because they seem like they don't want to deal with it anymore. Support is limited at that, and updates are scarce (one update to be exact, and even that OTA had problems), even for non-root users. Development, even though sometimes a tedious task, is moving slowly. We have a small selections of stable roms and thats about it. Nothing super fantastic (granted CyanogenMod and Modaco's ROMS are great, but not legendary), nothing special. I feel like there was more support for the (i hate to bring it in) iPhone in terms of the community and the modding experience.
Simply, I absolutely LOVE my Nexus One, but i feel like it is not getting the support it deserves, and i DO NOT want this beautiful piece of technology to be obsolete by september. i hope you guys are with me on this, because i think we all know that this phone could easily be something BETTER than what it is now. and it SHOULD be able to compete with any phone within a year from now because it's Google's baby. GOOGLE: GIVE US MORE for our phones and for our money. Because, even though i feel like this is the best phone i've ever had, 1) i feel like it'll be obsolete in a few months and 2) im starting to feel like i wasted my money.
long live nexus

+1 .......

The Nexus one will be the standard by which all android phones are measured for at-least another year.
Keeping everything pure AOSP is a huge plus IMO.
Official updates are slow, but code is being committed to the repository regularly and makes it on to the custom ROMS very quickly.
There is no phone out there with better features and community support than the one you have
There is no other phone on google.com/phone... so we are still the only child.

Google is trying to catch up the rest of the android world to 2.1
VZ cut them off it seems from the N1 and instead VZ gets another great Android handset.
Froyo has some much needed upgrades and will help (in theory) android solidify itself by stabilizing the platform for devs.
JIT/Flash/Market /Open GL / market upgrades are on there way if you believe the rumors.
What is it you feel is being phased out ?
Only about 500k users have an N1. Thats a miniscule amount.
Even with that we have two great devs putting out some very stable ROMS. Unlike the past N1 came with so many damn features out of box that we didnt need ROMs and Apps to add the 101 missing features.
Listen I am still up in Googles rectum about alot of features that need to be fixed/enhanced on Android. We all knew N1 was the first of the snapdragons. The others are storming in blasting taking attention away from us...but theyre all on the same team....they all bleed green =-)
Sure Id love to be slapping on Sense widgets , Moto Blur social network apps , etc...but thats up to us as a community to do it (if ever technically possible).
Anyways feel good about your purchase. You still have the best available phone on the market and will until the EVO/Iphone4G drop. And even then..youd still be top 3 at worst.

There isn't much development because there isn't much to do. The Nexus has the latest firmware and top specs. Of announced phones only the Evo and Galaxy S have significantly better specs everything else is just a SLIGHTLY upgraded Nexus. No porting apps or firmwares are needed. The only thing to really do is optimize what we have (cyanogen is doing that) and port sense UI (Paul is doing that). I'm happy with my Nexus .....for now hehe

zach I can understand the complaints about some of the nagging issues the phone has had (3G, purple tint etc.) but two things we have to realize: A majority of the users don't experience these problems, and in no way is our phone going to be obsolete anytime soon.
Here is a post I made regarding the Incredible screen, I think it's relevant here:
jasrups said:
Here's my take:
Would I like to have this screen in my Nexus? Yea it would have been a nice feature. Do I need this screen? No, not in the slightest.. Not yet anyways. The only apps that would require a screen like that are games, and I don't play the type of games on my phone that would require axis-crossing multitouch. I know some people do, and I can respect that but I don't, hence why I don't care about this right now.
Frankly, if you're playing those kinds of games anyways, just get an iPhone (and I'm not saying that in a bad way). iPhone is unmatched when it comes to gameplay and plus you can get them all for free if you jailbreak. Yea The Incredible has a capable screen, but do you know long it's going to take Android to catch up to Apple when it comes to game quality?? Android just got games like Racing Thunder 2 and Homerun Battle 3D while you can play Street Fighter 4 and freaking Grand Theft Auto on the iPhone! It's no competition.. if you want to game, you don't have the right phone.
By the time Android actually starts developing games and apps that can take advantage of the axis crossing MT, The Incredible will be "obsolete" (as some of you like to put it) so no need for everyone to get their panties in a bunch
With most things I normally have a realist perspective and am usually the first to 'hate' on something when its deserved, but alot of you guys are just a bunch of downers. The Incredible is a great phone as is the Nexus, everyone should just appreciate what they have! If you keep chasing the newest technology (no matter how impractical it is) you will never be satisfied!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There will always be new technology coming out faster than we can keep up with, the important thing is to not prematurely write one product off as soon as a newer one becomes available. People will be saying the same thing about the Incredible/4G Evo etc in a few months from now. That's just the ways things are. If you have that mentality you will want a new phone every few months regardless of how good it is.
Regarding the selection of ROMS.. Guys, right now we have the top of the line OS on our phones.. 2.1 is the standard, most of the G1/Magic ROMS are trying to replicate what we already have stock. Believe me, once Froyo and Android 3.0 come out the devs will be right on it and we'll get awesome ports. We have great developers who will make sure our phones have the newest software on our devices.
And if worst comes to worst and some of you decide to sell your Nexus this summer, it will have excellent resale value.

Don't worry, This is the phone Google are actively giving to developers. We'll be here for a while to come yet.

Well
I most definetely do not believe the nexus one will be phased out anytime soon, actually i will be ordering one tonight as a matter of fact. yes we may not have the best touch screens or the greatest rom develipment, but that is because we are still number one There are no other builds to even create until phones of this caliber runnng other os are on the scene. And for the touch screen issue, whe the time comes to where we truely need multitouch for games on the market out nexus's WILL be outdated, or there WILL be a fix for this, i mean geez Cyanogen has nearly finished a fully working Eclair for the g1 already, all i see is hope and excitment for the future of this device, the market also needs some serious time to catch up to apples games (please dont get upset with this, its true) The only thing i can see actually outdating our phones are dual processors capable of OVER 1.5 otherwise i dont believe they will be extinct, not even the 1.3 samsung will hurt the nexus i think considering we can be oc'ed to 1.3 anyways i do believe, or at least close

I don't think that we're being phased out, not until another year. Each phone that comes in the market gets compared to Nexus One.
As far as the development is concerned, its very satisfactory. Comparing the development scene between N1 an iPhone, iPhone sold nearly 50x the units of N1 sold. So most app developers have their focus on iPhone as it stands them a better chance of making more money..... But still development on N1 is much better.....

jasrups said:
:
There will always be new technology coming out faster than we can keep up with, the important thing is to not prematurely write one product off as soon as a newer one becomes available. People will be saying the same thing about the Incredible/4G Evo etc in a few months from now. That's just the ways things are. If you have that mentality you will want a new phone every few months regardless of how good it is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
I’m beginning to think some people have never bought a phone before, or a computer for that matter.
Did people expect the N1 to the absolute top spec phone forever? Seriously its still amazing compared to most, and measures up nicely in all significant ways to these new phones it keeps getting compared to. Stop trying to bury it before its even close to dead.
There is always something newer coming. No exceptions. There are phones in development now that will top the Evo and Incredible. At some point you have to buy something or you’ll wait forever.
The N1 is Google’s flag ship phone. I bought it for that reason. If Google is developing something cool (like FroYo!) its pretty much guaranteed to come to us first. Its not being phased out. I think there are exciting things to come…

You have got to be kidding. Seriously?
zachthemaster said:
NOW! I know it is possibly too early to jump to conclusions, but I have recently been reading through some posts about how our Nexus One's are slowly, sadly and surely becoming obsolete. I agree with this theory
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How does the best Android phone currently on the market obsolete? You must be working from a totally different definition of "obsolete".
zachthemaster said:
in the fact that we aren't getting any love/support anymore.
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Click to collapse
THAT must be why Google is giving Nexus Ones out to so many developers! Because they don't love it anymore and want to get rid of it!
zachthemaster said:
Granted, i know that Froyo is on the way, but i feel as though our hardware could have been better from the get-go, and that now (starting to become the long run since launch) it will be the death of this phone on a large basis.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As if Froyo isn't a major undertaking.
In what way could the hardware have been better, without delaying the release of the phone?
zachthemaster said:
I feel as though Google has left us behind with some major issues, and has crippled the Nexus One name, purely because they seem like they don't want to deal with it anymore. Support is limited at that
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Click to collapse
Are we talking about the same phone? In what way is it crippled?
Google has upped its support, hired more support personnel, and continues to present the N1 as its flagship phone. How does that equate to "they don't want to deal with it anymore"?
zachthemaster said:
and updates are scarce (one update to be exact, and even that OTA had problems), even for non-root users.
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How long has the N1 been out? Just how often did you expect an update? I think your expectations might be wildly unrealistic.
And "even for non-root users"!?! WTF does that mean? If anything, non-root users have far fewer updates -- rooted users are getting the updates from CM as soon as Google commits them to the source repository, whereas "even" implies that you expect non-root users to receive more updates, which is completely backwards.
zachthemaster said:
Development, even though sometimes a tedious task, is moving slowly. We have a small selections of stable roms and thats about it. Nothing super fantastic (granted CyanogenMod and Modaco's ROMS are great, but not legendary), nothing special.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you don't think CM is "super fantasic" then I invite you to go back to the stock N1 rom. Installing CM for the first time is like getting a whole new phone.
zachthemaster said:
I feel like there was more support for the (i hate to bring it in) iPhone in terms of the community and the modding experience.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Somebody call the waaaaaaaaaahmbulance.

I don't buy it. I don't like the multitouch sensor they used for the phone, and I think the scrolling could be smoother, but what do you really expect from Google? Short of them sending out free hardware upgrades, what are you really looking for to not feel phased out?
The Nexus One is a great phone, at least for me. Even with the multitouch issues, I'm able to pull off running jumps when I play Super Mario World and the like. And that issue is allegedly being worked on with 2.2. If they flat out said the Nexus One wasn't getting 2.2 then you could make the claim of the Nexus One being phased out.
As far as network issues go, I have zero problems with my AT&T Nexus One and 3G. I live in the DC Metro area, for what it's worth. Most problems I've heard from people are all on T-Mobile. Who's to say the problem isn't on T-Mobile's side instead of Google's? Everyone blames AT&T's network for the iPhone's network issues, but it's pretty clear that the radio in the iPhone is garbage.
We live in a time where there are 1ghz processors in handheld devices. Technology is advancing so fast. It's always going to hurt when your $500+ dollar device isn't the best around anymore, but do you really want forward progress to slow down so you feel like you have the best phone longer?
I think you're being overly paranoid, if you ask me. So long as you love the phone, what do you care?

danguyf said:
You have got to be kidding. Seriously?
How does the best Android phone currently on the market obsolete? You must be working from a totally different definition of "obsolete".
THAT must be why Google is giving Nexus Ones out to so many developers! Because they don't love it anymore and want to get rid of it!
As if Froyo isn't a major undertaking.
In what way could the hardware have been better, without delaying the release of the phone?
Are we talking about the same phone? In what way is it crippled?
Google has upped its support, hired more support personnel, and continues to present the N1 as its flagship phone. How does that equate to "they don't want to deal with it anymore"?
How long has the N1 been out? Just how often did you expect an update? I think your expectations might be wildly unrealistic.
And "even for non-root users"!?! WTF does that mean? If anything, non-root users have far fewer updates -- rooted users are getting the updates from CM as soon as Google commits them to the source repository, whereas "even" implies that you expect non-root users to receive more updates, which is completely backwards.
If you don't think CM is "super fantasic" then I invite you to go back to the stock N1 rom. Installing CM for the first time is like getting a whole new phone.
Somebody call the waaaaaaaaaahmbulance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't wanna quote the whole thing (sorry everyone) but this is the post of the year IMO!!!! Every counter argument you made is perfect.....This thread is BOGUS!!!!!!

You can't compare the modding/dev community of the N1 to the iPhone anyways.
The iphone has FAR more units out there, and the Apple cult is still buying. The iPhone also has more that is needed as far as mods to make it a nice OS.
The iPhone also runs native binaries, so there seem to be a lot more standard systems written for it, or so I was told in my Q&A thread. The iPhone has full apt packaging system, full set of GNU tools, full OpenSSH suite, etc.
The iPhone also has a lot more core teams of dedicated modders, while Android seems to have 1-2, at least for the N1. This is, again, I think due to the fact that the iPhone needs more mods to make it a good OS.

Without boobs, this thread is a waste of time.

Not even boobs can rescue the OP's post.

martin0285 said:
I didn't wanna quote the whole thing (sorry everyone) but this is the post of the year IMO!!!! Every counter argument you made is perfect.....This thread is BOGUS!!!!!!
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attn1 said:
Without boobs, this thread is a waste of time.
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Click to collapse
I agree wholeheartedly with both of you.

zachthemaster said:
NOW! I know it is possibly too early to jump to conclusions, but I have recently been reading through some posts about how our Nexus One's are slowly, sadly and surely becoming obsolete.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you link these posts?
How is the N1 becoming obsolete? What are your reasons? I have yet to see any indication of this.
updates are scarce (one update to be exact, and even that OTA had problems), even for non-root users.
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Click to collapse
What kind of crap is this? Yes, the N1 has received 1 update. Which is 1 more than MANY other Android phones in YEARS.
Development, even though sometimes a tedious task, is moving slowly.
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Click to collapse
Here's the Android source code:
http://android.git.kernel.org/
Get to work!
GOOGLE: GIVE US MORE for our phones and for our money
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Click to collapse
Give more WHAT?

Enjoy the wave for as long as it lasts... which will be a long time
Tech wise phones go obsolete much faster than a PC ever would for the simple fact that you are in a closed environment. You can't upgrade the RAM, graphics or CPU on one of these things so shelf life is in terms of months not years. But that's not to say that support will go away for the N1 any time soon. OP is just acknowledging/exhibiting the mid-life crisis that the N1 is in currently. It's still the flagship product and a benchmark for every phone slated to be released this year. Next year may be different--hell I'm sure it will be--but for now, we're good and there's enough power that it'll still be viable 2 years from now. If you need a current tangible example, just look at how many G1's there are out there and how long that phone has been out.
I came from the dismally dysfunctional land of the Epix from Samsung where between them and AT&T, they couldn't figure out who was suppose to be doing the obligatory reach-around. With the N1 there are no more worries about the carrier holding up the updates for a fix to a major problem introduced by another fix almost a year prior for an infantile notification issue., there are no more issues with contractual obilgations to corporate partnerships (Yahoo) with draconian imposed restrictions to enforce it(backflip) and mostly there's no more waiting for the mfg to finally update their license to a newer version OS if they even bother going that route to begin with. Open architecture, open software and an infinite amount of potential for old and new phones is why I'm here and I'm sure a bunch of others are too.
So to anyone else reading this and especially to Sprint customers that are waiting for the N1, catch the wave however you want(N1, Evo, etc) but enjoy it for what it is--a long great ride and loads of fun--cowabunga!

Did somebody say boobs? Er, was I supposed to get something else out of this?

Debacle or no debacle?

A lot seems to have been written about the 2.1 Rom "delay". I've posted a version of this elsewhere but think it's worth simplifying here and expanding somewhat because who knows, maybe some who bothers the care at HTC takes a look at this forum? Most of us now are simply waiting it out for HTC to show some respect to existing customers and finally release the 2.1 ROM we know they all have waiting. Maybe when it comes it will be too little, too late.
It's all quite simple:
HTC are deliberately withholding the 2.1 ROM. A LOT of us here and elsewhere KNOW this. Not guessing, not speculating. It's obvious. We KNOW.
It is being withheld not for technical reasons but specifically because of the Legend.
Releasing a 2.1 Rom would NOT hurt Legend sales because those with Heroes are mainly in contracts AND those without would want the newer hardware anyway - doesn't get simpler than that: HTC logic is deeply flawed although superficially understandable. From a company like HTC however, it's a bit silly and the consequences are irritating to say the least.
HTC is suffering from fear based greed as many, many tech electronics companies are (inc Apple) and forget a simple business rule of keeping existing customers happy. This is like a widespread disease amongst the big business community and corporate cultures. Simple, basic business principles like keeping existing customers happy are pushed aside "as if" it wont have any consequences by short sighted, fearful decision makers.
The 1.5 ROM is fine - perfectly acceptable in my opinion.
MOST are aware that HTC doesn't HAVE TO give us a 2.1 ROM - they don't have to give us any updates at all unless there are faults. We get it. We get it. We understand this point.
The 2.1 custom ROMS available here of XDA (and I've tried a LOT of them) are too buggy and too slow for general use. All of them. The recent VillainROM 5.3 for e.g. has a listed issue with voice mail notifications. That's a pretty integral feature! This does not detract the respect and appreciation I think most of us have for the effort put into them.
The 2.1 custom ROM are a great taste of the new functionality and tweaks throughout but are bad in the sense that it's HARD going back to the faster, stable 1.5 ROMs with "less good" features despite the custom 2.1 problems.
Too many are unhappy/feel let down with HTC cynically delaying the 2.1 ROM.
HTC are forgetting that android users and their customers in particular are generally going to be more "techy" and generally going to want the latest version of Android. In other words, they are fools if the think they can deal with their Android handset customers in the same way as their more "consumer" based handset customers. We notice what's out. We notice updates. And boy are we noticing the missing 2.1 update.
I for one despite rationalising and "understanding" HTC's "reasons" for delaying the 2.1 update on the Hero can't shake off the feeling that I'm missing out. There are more important things in life, sure, but I use my phone everyday and paid and continue to pay a lot for it. I feel like they're taking me for a mug. I'll do some research first but it looks like by the time I come to upgrade, i'll drop HTC for this and get a Samsung galaxy S when they're out.
I suppose HTC will have to learn the hard way - mess existing customers about : watch existing customers move to competitors. Business doesn't get simpler than that. HTC won't feel it, even notice it, but the effect is going to be very real and very subtle. If I was a tech company with a new focus of marketing myself directly to my customers, I'd think twice about a short term strategy for gaining adoption and consider such seemingly subtle factors as "will the Hero customers feel pis*ed off if we delay the 2.1 update for months on end?"
Oh, by the way - I'm not "waiting" anymore. Call it a personality deficiency - whatever - but I was checking back here a lot in and around the times the rumours said the official update would be made available. I realise now how much of a waste of time that is. I'm not checking back nearly as often. I recommend others here do the same and "let go" of the whole 2.1 ROM waiting. For your own sake. Oh, and "let go" of HTC while you're at it. Maybe then they'll take notice. Will take a few months the bear fruit - but if all Hero users go to another manufacturer for their Android fix, in about 6 months, maybe at HTC they'll be saying "wow, maybe getting that 2.1 ROM out to Hero users consistently was more important than we thought"? Doubt it, but it's possible.

alsheron said:
HTC are deliberately withholding the 2.1 ROM. A LOT of us here and elsewhere KNOW this. Not guessing, not speculating. It's obvious. We KNOW.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
interesting theory, do you have any prove for that?

Proof
hkr said:
interesting theory, do you have any prove for that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As my "theory" isn't a legal case, I don't need that most dubiously elusive of things called "proof" so commonly demanded in order to dismiss common sense reasoning.
My brain and the common sense it contains leads me to believe what I said. I'm far from the only one. If HTC are not deliberately witholding the 2.1 their reasons elude me as not only is the Legend hugely similar but even development here have been able to put together almost passable ROMs with the leftovers from currently released resources and some leaks. Common sense. It ain't proof, but I, like many others with the Hero only need to feel a certain way before I start to get irritated. No proof required. The restlessness and dissatisfaction with HTC from Hero users specifically is very real and if its percieved to be true then in practical terms, it is.

hkr said:
interesting theory, do you have any prove for that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, for one, they have been promising, announcing and delaying this update ever since, but there were only sparse official (not rumored) justifications for that.
So we have constant delays (without reasons given) but at the same time the new Android 2.1 version released on the Legend, the hardware of which is very similar to the Hero's.
It's not rocket science, really. To be honest the delay to June sounds fishy too. Apparently there will be two updates... a preparatory one and then the one to 2.1 later. Why is that? I mean... we are wiping and replacing the system with a new rom, why would there be a preparation-rom necessary.
So I don't actually believe this rumor (and yes, it's only a rumor... just like all the other details... OTA, non-OTA blabla)... but think about it. Why does HTC already know how exactly they will deploy the update, when they claim to be not done with it?

alsheron said:
As my "theory" isn't a legal case, I don't need that most dubiously elusive of things called "proof" so commonly demanded in order to dismiss common sense reasoning.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So if you "KNOW" that HTC are deliberately delaying the update, why don't you tell us how you know?
The only way you could "KNOW" that would be if you had seen the update, and you aren't claiming that.
So yes you are speculating, as you don't "KNOW", what if they have a show stopping issue with bluetooth? Or something similar that they don't want to release with bugs?

daniel_owen_uk said:
So if you "KNOW" that HTC are deliberately delaying the update, why don't you tell us how you know?
The only way you could "KNOW" that would be if you had seen the update, and you aren't claiming that.
So yes you are speculating, as you don't "KNOW", what if they have a show stopping issue with bluetooth? Or something similar that they don't want to release with bugs?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am speculating. Just like I speculate that I'm breathing in oxygen right now. You could be absolutely right. If you are, then the least they could/would do is let the many people who e-mailed them asking for dates:
"we're experiencing technical difficulties with the update and we expect to have resolved by [insert overestimated date of expected release here] We thank you for your patience"
- or something like that? That wouldn't be too much to ask, would it? They haven't done this. Most reports of dates have turned out to be false or "missed" or simply rumour. I'm not the only one who thinks there is a significant and dramatic delay with the Hero 2.1 update compared to other devices. It's been noticed, and it's causing a lot of resentment - right or wrong.
The least of the mistakes they could be making is simply not communicating to their own customers when the 2.1 update will be ready - and again, right or wrong, Hero users seem to care, in general, quite a lot. Maybe they don't know if it's a technical issue. But would anyone really believe that it could take another 12 months from now? 6 months? 3 months? My point is that if they wanted to they could give us a rough estimate. In fact, they've said little or nothing.

alsheron said:
As my "theory" isn't a legal case, I don't need that most dubiously elusive of things called "proof" so commonly demanded in order to dismiss common sense reasoning.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My common sense and experience with HTC tells me, it's not finished yet, otherwise it would have been leaked ...
alsheron said:
We KNOW
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
By the way, how many are YOU ???

hkr said:
By the way, how many are YOU ???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We are many! ;-)

I have this minor annoyance that keeps coming up in these update threads, the statement that the 1.5 stock ROM is bug free. People who keep saying that must not use bluetooth stereo. Music slow down and pitch issues, stuttering when starting a song etc. I'd be happy with a 1.5 fix just for those issues.

What HTC is really missing in this 2.1 affair is that the Hero was the first impressing Android device on the market. Tatoo and Magic were not good enough for a "geek" or "tech-victim" to make the big step and jump from an iPhone or whatever was their old smartphone.
Let's consider the two main type of "nerds" who bought an Hero:
- the most nerdy guys, who spent 500€ on an Hero anything less than a year ago, will jump to Desire anyway, because they always want the last piece of hardware, regardless how small the improvement in terms of performance will be.
- the less nerdy guys, or those who can't afford a 500€ shot every 8-12 months, will stick to their 1.5 Hero anyway, both because they don't have the money for a new phone, or because they are on contract, or whatever reason can keep away a real nerd from upgrading whatever piece of hardware
So there is no way HTC is selling more Legend/Desire/N1 by keeping the upgrade for them. Maybe 1% of Hero customers will switch to something better just because of this 1-2-3 months delay. Those who can, would have did it anyway. Those who can't, won't do it anyway. 2.1 on Hero will have a user experience definitely worst than Desire and slightly worst than Legend, so maybe releasing 2.1 on Hero 1 month ago would have teased the "real nerds" to buy a new terminal just to enjoy better all those functionalities that on a Hero would be a little smuggy.
Sorry for the bad english

alsheron said:
HTC are forgetting that android users and their customers in particular are generally going to be more "techy" and generally going to want the latest version of Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry - but this just isn't true.
The vast majority of people who have the Hero have no desire to root, flash, or do anything beyond what they can already do with their 1.5 handsets.
People like us, who frequent boards like XDA, are very much the exception rather than the rule, and HTC do not care about us - if they did, they wouldn't go to the lengths that they do to lock down their phones!
Regards,
Dave

foxmeister said:
Sorry - but this just isn't true.
The vast majority of people who have the Hero have no desire to root, flash, or do anything beyond what they can already do with their 1.5 handsets.
People like us, who frequent boards like XDA, are very much the exception rather than the rule, and HTC do not care about us - if they did, they wouldn't go to the lengths that they do to lock down their phones!
Regards,
Dave
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats an interesting point - and probably (painfully!) true - but it doesn't "feel" true when you are one of us here - a "techy" and are waiting for the latest and greatest.

Losing it's charm?

As much as it hurts to say it, my Vibrant is really starting to lose it's charm.
When I first got it, the hardware was great, and the phone ran perfectly. Now after having it for over a month, this is what I'm starting to see:
Lack of life in the market. I see no new innovative games or apps. All the cool apps I downloaded have been on the market for a while.
Lack of development here. There hasn't been much progress in developing in cool ROMS that would make a huge difference on my phone.
The phone is becoming more slow, and not as fluid. Even the 1 or 2 second delays just bothers me to be honest.
Lastly, lack of initiative from Samsung. I know we have all been complaining about Froyo, but it just boggles my mind how little Samsung has been paying attention to it's existing customers. I hope it comes back to bite them sometime in the near future.
These things are becoming more and more apparent to me, and every time I look at and use my phone, I don't feel like I am using a solid, fluid phone, that I can try a lot of new things with in the future.
This is not a complaining thread, so flamers - gtfo.
I just wanted to see if anyone out there sees the same things I am seeing, and if there really is not potential left.

i fail to see how the lack of quality apps in the market falls on the vibrant

lolcopter said:
i fail to see how the lack of quality apps in the market falls on the vibrant
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True. This is my first Android phone, so I paired the OS with the hardware.

nearblack said:
As much as it hurts to say it, my Vibrant is really starting to lose it's charm.
When I first got it, the hardware was great, and the phone ran perfectly. Now after having it for over a month, this is what I'm starting to see:
Lack of life in the market. I see no new innovative games or apps. All the cool apps I downloaded have been on the market for a while.
Lack of development here. There hasn't been much progress in developing in cool ROMS that would make a huge difference on my phone.
The phone is becoming more slow, and not as fluid. Even the 1 or 2 second delays just bothers me to be honest.
Lastly, lack of initiative from Samsung. I know we have all been complaining about Froyo, but it just boggles my mind how little Samsung has been paying attention to it's existing customers. I hope it comes back to bite them sometime in the near future.
These things are becoming more and more apparent to me, and every time I look at and use my phone, I don't feel like I am using a solid, fluid phone, that I can try a lot of new things with in the future.
This is not a complaining thread, so flamers - gtfo.
I just wanted to see if anyone out there sees the same things I am seeing, and if there really is not potential left.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bye bye ...
But I want to point out some flaws in your logic ...
Lack of life in the Market? Maybe you should change what you are searching for our use some alternative markets, as there are tons of new apps ...
Lack of dev here? Ummmm I have had like 7 diff custom roms on my phone and had it less than 2 months ..
phone slow? I am sure that is caused by all the crap you installed, that really is the only thing that slows the phones down, is having 17 million things running.
Not gonna defend Samsung, but just so the info is correct, Samsung sent 2.2 to all the carriers at the same time, so actually it is Tmobile that is slowing it down, not that makes the wait any less painful ...
And the big thing I wanted to say is ending your post by saying "flamers -GTFO" is like dumping a gallon of gasoline on yourself and running into a burning building and expecting not to catch fire , smarter thing would have been to not even post.

But.. all in all, it's a phone. There can only be only so many cool games for your phone. Great games for consoles and PCs don't come around all the time either. Sometimes you have to wait years for something great to come around again that's a "must have." We are talking about a phone. It's mobile, has some cool stuff to play and do on it... but it's still a phone. It makes and recieves calls, text, pictures, data, etc., lets you browse the web, and other cool little things. It's not, nor ever will be a desktop replacement. No mobile device is perfect. If you want something better, try making it yourself, otherwise, just deal with what we have and work with it.
The "newness" is probably wearing off, but that happens with anything.

This topic is painful.

I can complain and nitpick with the best of them, but my personality sort of forces me to put things into perspective.
Firstly, I'm extremely pleased with my Vibrant. Though GPS at times has a mind of it's own with the post JI2 fixes it performs adequately for me while driving. I'm sure there are those who have a vested interest in the GPS being more reliable and accurate to be sure, I'm just not one of those people.
Getting beyond the GPS there is very little I can complain about. Among my friends there are a wide variety of smartphones. Several iPhones (3gs, 4), EVO 4G, several 3g Slides, several more MT3G's, and two friends with "other" Galaxy S phones, a Fascinate and an Epic 4G. I come from a past filled with a Behold II, a G1, a Palm Centro, and an original iPhone. And this phone is way better than any phone I've ever had and generally better than most of my friends phones I've played with.
In a forum like this one we have a tendency to get "tunnel vision". Forums like this exist for users to help and inform one another, but through this minor snags can get blown up into major headaches. I'd invite anyone angsty about the Vibrant to go see how the other half lives over in the HTC, Motorola, and LG threads and see that it's relatively a bed of roses for us in comparison. At least that's my take given my casual peeks into the forums for the other new smartphones out.
This doesn't mean I'm giving Samsung or T-Mobile a "get out of jail free" card. Both Samsung *AND* T-Mobile have horrible histories when it comes to updating Android devices, either in a timely manner or even AT ALL.
T-Mobile, to it's discredit has yet to have a single successful (meaning the update wasn't pulled at some point for problems it created) OTA of any android device since 2009.
From looking at Samsung's handling of the Galaxy S, given a cursory glance at it's own wonky revisioning system, it's no wonder that it's taken far too long for 2.1 to get fully fixed and 2.2 to progress beyond beta. Releasing this platform on a ridiculous amount of carriers, whilst simultaneously trying to cater to those carriers customization demands has obviously led to an extremely fragmented development process for us. A victim of runaway success, or a victim of their crappy development processes, it's difficult to say.
Either way as consumers we should be adamant that T-Mobile and Samsung take responsibility for their products. But, at the same time, we should step back and realize this is a smartphone and ask ourselves if it's doing what we want it to do.
If it is, then take a deep breath and count to ten. If it isn't, then take a look at how the rest of the smartphone universe is really functioning before you jump ship, only to be disappointed all over again.
Some of peoples ire here is buyers remorse, focused and whipped into extremes because of where you happen to be focusing your attention. Do what I'm about to do, which is pick up my Vibrant and call some friends so we can all go unplug with some tasty sushi and sake!

masterotaku said:
I can complain and nitpick with the best of them, but my personality sort of forces me to put things into perspective.
Firstly, I'm extremely pleased with my Vibrant. Though GPS at times has a mind of it's own with the post JI2 fixes it performs adequately for me while driving. I'm sure there are those who have a vested interest in the GPS being more reliable and accurate to be sure, I'm just not one of those people.
Getting beyond the GPS there is very little I can complain about. Among my friends there are a wide variety of smartphones. Several iPhones (3gs, 4), EVO 4G, several 3g Slides, several more MT3G's, and two friends with "other" Galaxy S phones, a Fascinate and an Epic 4G. I come from a past filled with a Behold II, a G1, a Palm Centro, and an original iPhone. And this phone is way better than any phone I've ever had and generally better than most of my friends phones I've played with.
In a forum like this one we have a tendency to get "tunnel vision". Forums like this exist for users to help and inform one another, but through this minor snags can get blown up into major headaches. I'd invite anyone angsty about the Vibrant to go see how the other half lives over in the HTC, Motorola, and LG threads and see that it's relatively a bed of roses for us in comparison. At least that's my take given my casual peeks into the forums for the other new smartphones out.
This doesn't mean I'm giving Samsung or T-Mobile a "get out of jail free" card. Both Samsung *AND* T-Mobile have horrible histories when it comes to updating Android devices, either in a timely manner or even AT ALL.
T-Mobile, to it's discredit has yet to have a single successful (meaning the update wasn't pulled at some point for problems it created) OTA of any android device since 2009.
From looking at Samsung's handling of the Galaxy S, given a cursory glance at it's own wonky revisioning system, it's no wonder that it's taken far too long for 2.1 to get fully fixed and 2.2 to progress beyond beta. Releasing this platform on a ridiculous amount of carriers, whilst simultaneously trying to cater to those carriers customization demands has obviously led to an extremely fragmented development process for us. A victim of runaway success, or a victim of their crappy development processes, it's difficult to say.
Either way as consumers we should be adamant that T-Mobile and Samsung take responsibility for their products. But, at the same time, we should step back and realize this is a smartphone and ask ourselves if it's doing what we want it to do.
If it is, then take a deep breath and count to ten. If it isn't, then take a look at how the rest of the smartphone universe is really functioning before you jump ship, only to be disappointed all over again.
Some of peoples ire here is buyers remorse, focused and whipped into extremes because of where you happen to be focusing your attention. Do what I'm about to do, which is pick up my Vibrant and call some friends so we can all go unplug with some tasty sushi and sake!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well said. The only thing that bugs me with the Vibrant is how long its taking to get the GPS fix out but other than that I am 99% satisfied.

nearblack said:
As much as it hurts to say it, my Vibrant is really starting to lose it's charm.
When I first got it, the hardware was great, and the phone ran perfectly. Now after having it for over a month, this is what I'm starting to see:
Lack of life in the market. I see no new innovative games or apps. All the cool apps I downloaded have been on the market for a while.
Lack of development here. There hasn't been much progress in developing in cool ROMS that would make a huge difference on my phone.
The phone is becoming more slow, and not as fluid. Even the 1 or 2 second delays just bothers me to be honest.
Lastly, lack of initiative from Samsung. I know we have all been complaining about Froyo, but it just boggles my mind how little Samsung has been paying attention to it's existing customers. I hope it comes back to bite them sometime in the near future.
These things are becoming more and more apparent to me, and every time I look at and use my phone, I don't feel like I am using a solid, fluid phone, that I can try a lot of new things with in the future.
This is not a complaining thread, so flamers - gtfo.
I just wanted to see if anyone out there sees the same things I am seeing, and if there really is not potential left.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I completely agree with every point you made! It kind of being a let down, coming from having 2G, 3G, 3GS iPhones...I really sometimes miss the availability of all apps on the apple app store...HOWEVER...I think Andriod is going to surpass Apple app store and OS, just give it a little bit of time and you are going to be much happier.... I remember having the same type of frustrations when the 2G came out, specially not being able to forward messages, copy and past, lack of updates....etc... and plus the drop calls of iphone/att.. So give some time for Samsung and Andriod to grow and I think all of us going to be much happier with Froyo.

And the big thing I wanted to say is ending your post by saying "flamers -GTFO" is like dumping a gallon of gasoline on yourself and running into a burning building and expecting not to catch fire , smarter thing would have been to not even post.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I lold so hard.
And if ur phone is laggy how about, oh, I dunno, a lagfix? And uninstall all those "japanese sexy girl" apps.
-------------------------------------
Sent via the XDA app

/FACEPALM

nearblack said:
...
[*]The phone is becoming more slow, and not as fluid. Even the 1 or 2 second delays just bothers me to be honest....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Galaxy S has never really been "fluid."
Scrolling has a "jerky" feel, which is immediately apparent if you compare it to the iPhone.
The EVO is also noticeably smoother than the Samsung (although still not as fluid as the iPhone).

MacGuy2006 said:
The Galaxy S has never really been "fluid."
Scrolling has a "jerky" feel, which is immediately apparent if you compare it to the iPhone.
The EVO is also noticeably smoother than the Samsung (although still not as fluid as the iPhone).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The "jerky" feel is due to the OS rather than the hardware as the vibrant has an equal or faster processor than the iPhone according to Anandtech review not to mention a much faster GPU. Also in the review it called the SGS as the fastest android even after using the EVO previously. I agree that the iPhone has the smoothest scrolling as I used to have the 2G and even on that, scrolling was extremely smooth.

sp4rky said:
Well said. The only thing that bugs me with the Vibrant is how long its taking to get the GPS fix out but other than that I am 99% satisfied.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This. I bought my phone day one as soon as the store opened, and I still love everything about it, especially now that JI2 has fixed my GPS.

With all the little quirks and mishaps i've had with this device (none of which have been a deal breaker for me) I am still very pleased i purchased this phone. To me it just seems to be getting better and better. Yes just like anyone else I would love to have Froyo and would love for my GPS to work 100% all the time but that is just a chance you take with technology and new devices. You learn to cope and deal. Really isnt that hard to grasp.

Only because it runs rock solid for me, I don't need to do anymore tweaks or anything.
Hoping Froyo brings in more developers and makes things a little more fun.

Vibrant too is my first android phone and also my very first smart phone. Although, I have owned 3 different iPod Touches, so that at least gives me some perspective of how a "smart" Mobile OS should be such as Android, iOS, etc.
I am very please with the hardware, and Android in general. However, coming from iOS, android does felt short in terms of upgrade path. ROM from independent developers are great but the lack of proper channel for official OS update really is the "nail in the coffin" kinda of thing.
With the exception of iOS 4 which excluded 2g, 3g iPhone; Apple users can expect an update on a timely yearly basis which usually adds features and bug fixes. It just makes you feel better when you know that an official update is definitely coming. We are kinda stuck in the situation where we are depended on Samsung to push for the update. Sigh.
Other than that, I am really glad I made the switch, the notification bar is my all time favor and of course Multitasking.

Samsung has dropped the ball in a lot of ways. I am inclined to say that the superior Android maker is HTC--just my opinion. Nevertheless, this phone its really growing on me, perhaps because of all of its nuances. I have learned a lot trying to mod the phone and create my own fixes. The hardware on this phone is rather amazing, so I know that if I get the software right I will love it. The first glimpse of that was when I installed Bionix 1.3. If you do not have it, then go get it in the dev thread. 1.4 should be releasing soon. Bionix has rejuvenated my interest in the Vibrant.
Sent by my Android.

Wahhhhhhh go get an iphone!
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

Why do people expect everything to come out fast by big companies? Motorola's wireless division, which is probably still small compared to when they were big in the past, only concentrates on Android, thus faster releases. HTC has been in the ball game since day 1 and is basically purely concentrating on Android until WP7 comes out. Samsung, well, I don't even know. There division makes all kinds of phones and working on different OSs while HTC and Motorola are concentrating only on Android. Oh, everyone should know how slow T-mobile is with updates. Really, they aren't the fastest ones around. With T-mobile, it's always been quality over speed.
Anyways, stop making pointless complaint topics, we don't need any more to clutter this forum. That's what I'm basically trying to say.

An interesting observation - SE using cat-string theory as its main business practice

i am a business management student...so i thought of sharing my perspective over how Sony Ericsson is playing the smartphone game...
by exagerrating a lot before the product launch ...and after the launch..giving small doses of updates so customers dont change phone in the hope of getting new features.
think of it..
they build great hype for a product months before the launch by strong advertising (probably spending more on ads than R&D itself) , promising a revolutionary interface with ground breaking custom interfaces....X panels for X1 (remember?) and timescape/mediascape (biggest garbage) for X10 ..both over-ambitious
just so they can differentiate from other companies..
ya they have great product design.. which initially attracts impulse buyers...they build anticipation...so we cant wait to get our hands on their phone!
and then they finally launch the product which will NEVER have the latest updates because their entire focus was on marketing the product i.e bringing it to market before competition and capturing market share.
they never really focussed on industry shaking R&D like Apple..c'mon without Apple, touchscreen was a dead market.
and without Android...Apple had a monopoly.
This is revolution....not timescape or mediascape..which are my least favourite apps...battery sucking with extremely slow response rates.
then they ll keep launching small small updates over couple of months...more like over a year...adding little features..so we dont change brand loyalty....giving the wounded customers a faint vision of hope...
finally they release a small update and the entire community goes 'wow' with excitement...like a virgin getting his first blowjob.
by that time..the phone has suffered scratches, has started showing signs of wear..which means very low re-sale value.
and meanwhile announcement for newer model is made...slimmer, sexier with more bugs which will be fixed via update over the next upcoming year.
good strategy for a short-term profit making....but they are losing brand loyalty.
i am not gonna buy SE Xperia Arc...ya its the sexiest phone on the market.
but its like a hot model u bang and can never have a healthy relationship with...coz she is dumb and full of flaws on the inside...such as daddy issues etc.
/rant
its like they keep us jumping over small small updates like a cat does to a string which the master will never let it catch.

but its like a hot model u bang and can never have a healthy relationship with...coz she is dumb and full of flaws on the inside...such as daddy issues etc.
epic comment
well it's true and from your perspective which one is better?
i know getting a big income is the main focus of any company but hey customers loyalty also counts. it's something i hate from sony in general, they keep pushing new tech every year and let the customer to feel outdated

Epic thread.
Sent from my GT-P1000 using XDA App

Couldn't have said it better myself, spot on mate!
Swyped from my ZDZ Froyo X10i

bang on, while i am happy with my x10 as it was my first droid comming from a long **** list of wm devices, i am also not going to be sticking with se, already contemplating the droid 2 global, yes se makes sexy phones but, im looking for something a little more with my next device.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App

Funny thread
so what do you think about HTC's strategy with Desire ( Desire/HD/Z )
Just because they released a better handset after a year of the previous handset's release it doesn't mean that they do not care about brand loyalty...
so what? you want them to stick with the X10 for two years while other competitors advance with technology????
believe it or not, many will buy the ARC, even more that who bought the X10...
Next time, go buy an HTC or Motorola
and by the way, Samsung is locking their bootloader so do not buy a Samsung android so you won't end up whining like many here about unlocking it, unless you like samsung
but despite all that, I would like to thank you for the effort made by you to explain what many of us are not aware of.. it's a good practice for your uni
good luck mate with your studies

Nocturnal310 said:
i am a business management student...so i thought of sharing my perspective over how Sony Ericsson is playing the smartphone game...
by exagerrating a lot before the product launch ...and after the launch..giving small doses of updates so customers dont change phone in the hope of getting new features.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I wish you luck with the business management, since your management of the English language makes me want to punch babies in the stomach.
Also, replace "Sony Ericsson" with every technology company ever and you have a point.
/thread

iead1 said:
Well, I wish you luck with the business management, since your management of the English language makes me want to punch babies in the stomach.
Also, replace "Sony Ericsson" with every technology company ever and you have a point.
/thread
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Grammar and syntax of the English language is not the point of XDA in MHO...
Very well written, kudos to you Nocturnal310...

@Nocturnal310:
Of course you're right. But as someone said before, you could say this about any company producing technical stuff and you would be right as well. (I expect some very negative comments on what I'm about to say...). I understand your point, but I just don't think that SE is somehow different in their approach from any other company producing consumer goods (is that right? stuff which are bought in great numbers just to be replaced by newer models...you know, we have to watch out for our English, right iead1? ). Thats quite important because we just can't expect infinite support for our product, because sooner or later (the former is more probable) it will get replaced with brand new model with brand new stuff inside making it lot more attractive. The only thing we can complain about is, that the support may have last longer... thats true. But despite all of that, I'm still not changing the brand loyalty as I just dont know what else should I buy next time. I dont like Apple and their iStuff, also don't like HTCs because of how they look. Samsung is an option, but if I should choose between Samsung and SE just by looking at the phones, SE would definitely win (and with Samsung locking their bootloaders as well, I wouldn't help myself much by buying it). You may call me a hardcore fan of SE who doesn't think about what he's buying, but thats not me. I just think that X10 was an unfortunate mistake (which I personally still love!) of SE and I really hope they will learn from it for the reasons mentioned above.
Thats my opinion and I do not force anyone to share it, but I wanted to say it, because I just don't uderstand all that poeople saying how betrayed they feel by SE.

i think SE`s problem is that they don`t really know what they do,at least so far.
they use UIQ for a while then they leave it.
they use win mo,but after x1 and x2 they desided to go for android.
but now Android is very good platform and they should find their way.i hope so.
their main mistake is that they don`t care about customers and the weak points of their products.

I must add my mustard ...
There was a time long ago, Sony Ericsson created really nice phones with a solid build quality. My x10 is 3 weeks old and is making crazy noises when twisted a bit. The whole frame is not stiff enough.
If I saw it right on arc video presentations at youtube, the crappy timescape is now a widget and it is still choppy. This uggly blue is still there. Why blue? SE colors are Green and Orange. What a bunch of stupid designers ... I think w'll have a lot of alternatives out there with lesser crappy UI-Mods.

Well, I agree with most of your points, but let's remember: they're not ceasing support, they're launching a new model and planningto lock x10 customers in outdated Android. Motorola intended to do that too, but customers did such a big buzz that they changed their minds. The bull**** about low performance on Android 2.2 is already discarded, we can see that on all the unofficially built ROMs available at xda-forums. I risk to say that even Google has his part on this entire drama. Obviously, Sony Ericsson and their UXP loaded with much more processing hunger than x10 can support is the one we should blame, because we chose to buy SE, not Google devices (which are HTC, actually ). The removal of MediaScape from Arc tells us that they know where the problem is. Let's hope they fix this "problem" on x10 too.
I truly hope no one takes my comments personally, since I'm just expressing my opinion as a SE consumer. I still like them, but not how they use my money.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App

Apple Iphone 3G is still getting latest updates - same day as the latest iPhone 4, not ALL the features because it's got old hardware but there aware of that.
SE should be aware of it to, yes x10 can run 2.1 2.2, 2.3 ect so they should. There opinion is why there not updating. (why not the majority, the users decide)
Why can't we get hardware based updates? HTC magic/hero got tons of updates..
Yes new models will come out, but it's the same OS to update, not that much off a difference, our devs do there work in spare time and takes 2-3 weeks to come up with ASOP OS, (which is what i prefer anyway). Imagine an entire DEV team full time? yes it takes more time for testing ect but still.....
At least SE have reconized they F'd up. that's the first step!

robbyf66 said:
At least SE have reconized they F'd up. that's the first step!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They say a lot. Saying and doing are not the same.

moacyrfilho said:
The removal of MediaScape from Arc tells us that they know where the problem is. Let's hope they fix this "problem" on x10 too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think they removed the mediascape app because it was so hard to new people to find the music player and photo gallery.
just think about it:
you have a new phone, and you would like to play some music, you first go to the music player but you can't find it because there is no music icon on the menu
Grab a samsung phone and try to play some music, the player is called "Music", the video player is "Videos" and the gallery is "Gallery"

robbyf66 said:
Apple Iphone 3G is still getting latest updates - same day as the latest iPhone 4, not ALL the features because it's got old hardware but there aware of that.
SE should be aware of it to, yes x10 can run 2.1 2.2, 2.3 ect so they should. There opinion is why there not updating. (why not the majority, the users decide)
Why can't we get hardware based updates? HTC magic/hero got tons of updates..
Yes new models will come out, but it's the same OS to update, not that much off a difference, our devs do there work in spare time and takes 2-3 weeks to come up with ASOP OS, (which is what i prefer anyway). Imagine an entire DEV team full time? yes it takes more time for testing ect but still.....
At least SE have reconized they F'd up. that's the first step!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are comparing with 2 companies with different calibers.
Apple - every designer/ad agency/design house/design school in this world purchase their 'godly' machines for work purposes. And these macs don't come cheap, mind you. With that amount of revenue, they can afford to create an iPhone, using their 'lagless' (yeah, right) macintosh reputations to breed a colony of iZombies to support their cause.
With the iZombies having the need to own a iAmagodlyproduct, with such supporters pumping money into their pockets, they can afford to offset any losses by being nice to
Update old iPhones even if new models are out, cos they know iZombies are already impressed with them playing the nice card and that they are confident that with their good reputation and a better new phone out, A majority of iZombies who have too much money to spare will still buy it. They are just giving an aww-I understand-you-can't-afford-a-new-phone-yet-so-I-will-update-you-periodically-so-that-you-will-come-back-to-me-when-you-have-money message to the poorer parties.
Now for Sony Ericsson (or just insert any other brand names). Let me ask you. Though they are an established brand, but let me ask you, how many people will own 1 of those expensive TVs or VAIOS? Comparing with Apple, no competition.
They don't have that much extra revenue to play nice. They can only strategize and try to earn as such as possible before their products become obsolete.
It's just like people like Donald Trump, who has so much money to play with, he can just give away to some random person on the street if he wants to. But if you try doing up a business yourself, would you give away your money to charity organizations, knowing that you cannot afford to spend the money that way? Most probably not. Unless you don't mind closing down your business due to losses.

All these threads are getting sooooooo repetitive!!! There should be one big sticky for anyone who wants to ***** and complain in any way shape and form about SE. That way this form isn't flooded with every thread turning into a SE bashing thread. It really is getting tiring logging on to see what's new and the first 50 threads are people *****in about SE.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App

Lonelee - agree with much of what you say.. but it is also true that there are many many many people who go back time and time again to buy the next apple product BECAUSE they know that Apple will not leave the OS lagging behind on the old device when a new one comes out.. it's spectacularly good brand loyalty. SE (and many other) are taking a very short term view, and a missing a great opportunity to get us all on the hook for the next product..
In the UK for example, many phones bought on contract are free with a 2 yr contract tie in.. so if I know that they will look after me for 2 years, then I'll go back for more.. my contract's not due until Feb 2012.. so I'm eagerly awaiting to see their behaviour over the next 12 months!

well I m back on XDA after exiting from blackberry platform...blackberry provided me a stable messaging device for a while but as needs changed, it was very poor for browsing and getting work with attachments done.
i was at a party few weeks ago and my friend took out his Xperia Z claiming this is the best camera phone.
to his disappointment, it was the darkest blurriest pic i have seen whereas my lumia 920 took a pic with DSLR-like clarity and image characteristics.
i am not sure how much sony has improved but seems like they are still a market follower and using marketing dollars to brag about their phones that do not perform as advertised.
after having wasted my student savings on 2 of their phones, I regret and wish I had bought a better phone for my first android experience.

product lifecycle
Hi,
I am not sure if I should blame any company for moving to newer (and maybe better) products. In the android phone market we have the nearly unique situation to be able to get our hands and minds at the software which is driving the product, at least partly.
This is quite different from cars or coffeemakers.
What I would like to from Sony is that when they decide to abandon a product (eg X10), they open up the sources of drivers etc, so that interested people can maintain their products for themselves.
I can understand that they wont open up the sources for current products.
A.