Database Users

Hero rushed out the door?

So after spending two days with the new official ROM I am dumbstruck that HTC let the Hero out the door as it was initially.
If you guys are like me you read online gadget blog reviews of new phones and you base your purchasing decisions to a lesser or greater extent on the reviews posted on these sites. The Hero received generally favorable reviews across the board BUT they were ALL tarred with the issue of the lagginess and unresponsiveness of the UI. Typical comments were "Sense UI is great but the hardware is not up to the task" etc. Hero was always compared to the iPhone and initially it was a more frustrating experience navigating the UI.
Clearly HTC have the ability to release software without these issues (new ROM proves that!) so why did they? I feel like they *really* hurt the sales and market potential of Hero and Sense UI by releasing an 'unfinished' product.
Can you imagine what Engadget's review (for instance) might have been had they reviewed a Hero with the new ROM?
I bought a Hero despite those reviews because I could see the potential in the handset but I know of others that steered clear because of the massive 'BUT...' at the end of most online reviews.
Its an opportunity missed I fear as the Hero is no longer a 'new' device.
I'm very glad that HTC have made my handset waaaaay nicer to use but seriously HTC... big, BIG ball drop!

Well... the Android phones are not really for the average Joes out there... they are for us techies and gadget lovers that love the freedom of doing cool and neat things with a phone.
We don't want to be tied up in an bondage game conducted/directed by a fruity company... and that is also why we choose a company we know.
Good enough?
You really thought we would feed a troll?

I honestly thought my post was a valid topic in a discussion forum about the HTC Hero.
@Thiesen
Wha?!? I really don't understand what your reply has got to do with my post. I think you've misunderstood the subject of my comments (perhaps if I had written in binary it might have been clearer?)
A broader acceptance of any platform is enabling and will benefit all users from 'techies' to 'average Joes'. Its not a matter of IF Android will become more mainstream but WHEN. I'm sorry if this makes you feel less special.
Troll indeed...

We're early adopters. We like to find bugs. We like to find glitches. And we take great pride in reporting them back to the devs and makers.
The average Joes just want things to work. They are not early adopters. They should get an iPhone then.

Thiesen said:
We're early adopters. We like to find bugs. We like to find glitches. And we take great pride in reporting them back to the devs and makers.
The average Joes just want things to work. They are not early adopters. They should get an iPhone then.
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I'm sorry mate but i think thats total rubbish, you wouldn't buy a car knowing it didn't work and happily waste your own time feeding back problems to the manufacture to bring it up to speed. You wouldn't go out and buy a brand new state of the art car and happily put a new engine in it would you knowing the one you had paid for was crap?
AND might I ad, the research and R+D that is put in to these items is all reflected in the price of them. If HTC were giving these phones away for beta testing or what not then fine, but for a £400 handset, i totally agree with the comments made by ShiroEd.
I have had no end of nokia handsets where i have thought nokia have been guilty of the same issue, releasing what could be classed as unfinished products.

Personally, I always though the tech sites overplayed the whole lag issue on the original ROM. Yes it was there, but in my experience the net effect was quite limited and in my case it didn't really limit my ability to use the device. I'm not saying that the issue didn't (or doesn't! ) exist, just that in my opinion it was acceptable for a device of this nature (please no flames from those who disagree).
This may be because I didn't load my home screens with tons of apps, and one of the first things I did do with my Hero was to remove the People and Weather widgets, and set up Peep appropriately.
The average Joes just want things to work. They are not early adopters. They should get an iPhone then.
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That would presume that the iPhone isn't possessed of the same issues that the Hero is/was. Google "iphone lag" and you'll see loads of posts complaining about lag on the iPhone, even for the latest OS and the 3GS.
In addition, you will probably find that the *vast* majority of people who've purchased the Hero have never even heard of XDA-Developers, and probably will never install another ROM. We are in the minority, not the "average joe" when it comes to Hero ownership!
Whilst I disagree with the OP, I don't think he was trolling.
Regards,
Dave

Thiesen said:
We're early adopters. We like to find bugs. We like to find glitches. And we take great pride in reporting them back to the devs and makers.
The average Joes just want things to work. They are not early adopters. They should get an iPhone then.
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Agreed with crash. Thats just rubbish.
Entirely valid topic, and entirely valid point. Nothing remotely troll like about it.
Regardless of the people on this site, the Hero is definitely aimed at the average consumer, as a direct competitor in the iPhone market. Hence the multimedia, Facebook, etc.
Rushed to market I agree, but no idea why... Could just be lack of QA.
Many of the bugs reported here and elsewhere have been met with surprise by HTC, as if they really didnt know they existed. Do they not have a QA department that actually uses the phones in real life? Takes them home, plays with them, uses them all day and night to report the bugs?
Still, the update is great, the phone is flying now. If they could just sort out the crappy contact photo issue, the album caching, and the horrendous lack of bluetooth file transfer, I'd be a happy chap..

I think they shipped out the preview models and early review versions to people in the hope that they'd ignore any slowdown. Most of the review sites seem to have mentioned this in some form, saying that it can be a bit laggy but the final release could be good and the software shows potential - obviously it was never fixed for the first release.
To be fair, we're all early testers for the new HTC interface. If the Hero sells well and works well for everyone then we'll obviously be getting the same thing in future phones.
I don't think HTC is expecting any particular phone to be the next killer phone, they're just working on improvements with each new model.

While it does not make it ok... it seems to be the norm these days to get the product out and iron out bugs in a later release. As long as the quality is respectable, which I feel it was in this case, I can live with it. Particularly since the alternative would be to make do with buying an older model or waiting longer for the handset.
Zuber

Just give us an example of one single gadget that was not rushed out of the door!
The iPhone? Hellooo, the original iPhone didn't even have 3G. Have you ever tried GPRS speed (Go to wireless settings and pick "2G only"), not even funny. Talk about being rushed out of the door!

and apple offered a free upgrade to the 3g version when it was released! So yes may have been rushed out the door but no financial gain in the long run.

Was this a free upgrade that did not involve commuting to a contract ?
If not, then its not free...
Zuber

the handsets weren't free in the first place... you want to split hairs then fine.

The uninformed might think Apple were so caring and generous that they were willing to swap out the phones for "no financial gain"...
You can say many things about Apple, but generous isn't one of them
Zuber

Zuber said:
The uninformed might think Apple were so caring and generous that they were willing to swap out the phones for "no financial gain"...
You can say many things about Apple, but generous isn't one of them
Zuber
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Agreed However i thought it wasn't a bad deal as i have always thought the handsets were a rip off...coming to think of it the tariffs are aswell. I work for network rail and get 30% off all o2 shop tariffs and i still opted for the hero on orange which was a miles better deal!
(sorry for the partial hi-jack! )

crash_194 said:
and apple offered a free upgrade to the 3g version when it was released!
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Free upgrade! Just sign on for another 12 months of the 60+EUR/month (AT&T US) plan

Ok, I was one of the early adoptors of Hero. I got it right after its launch and I didnt really had too many complains about the device.
I never ever bought any HTC phone hoping it to be perfect. I always bought HTC knowing it will not be a perfect device out of box but community efforts will make it much much better device over time.
This applies to WinMo devices, and android. Why do we have xda here???

If you ask me, it's actually a great device. I've had far worse :/
I think people kinda underestimate how difficult it is to make good software. And how difficult it is to properly test stuff like this as well.
Next to that, it's always a comprimise. They want the software to be good, but also get the device out as fast as possible. The faster a (good) device is out there, the better that is for HTC in this case. It's a very competitive market, there just isn't enough time to keep working on the software until it's perfect.
The software should be 'good enough' and not perfect. I'm 100% sure they have a bugtracker or something else to keep track of major and minor bugs. At some point someone has to make a decision what will and won't be fixed before launch. And what shall be fixed right after launch.
For a new OS with a new UI like on the Hero I think they did very very well on the first release.
Now I fully agree with the OP, the lag/speed issue with the first ROM was not in HTC's favour. It was something that came up in every review, and people still believe that's a big Hero issue even while it's fixed. On the other hand, there might have been more important things that were fixed during development.
Usually speed improvements and tweaking stuff like that is something you do last. Other bugs and stuff has to be fixed first.

I don't think HTC rushed the phone out the door. The software was good enough so the phone functioned as a phone. It's a smartphone designed with the capability to upgrade the software. As long as the hardware is good quality, then you can work with the software and polish it as you go along.
I never really noticed the lag - it's only put to shame when you compare it with the new software. Look at the problems people are having with the iPhone 3.1 software release and you should be thankful that HTC have actually first delivered useable phone software and then improved it only a month after release. And HTC got some nice innovations to boot with the first release. They were perhaps a bit ambitious with the first release - where the phone did a lot of things when it first came out of sleep or switched screens, including the clock "flipping" animation.

RaptorRVL said:
If you ask me, it's actually a great device. I've had far worse :/
I think people kinda underestimate how difficult it is to make good software. And how difficult it is to properly test stuff like this as well.
Next to that, it's always a comprimise. They want the software to be good, but also get the device out as fast as possible. The faster a (good) device is out there, the better that is for HTC in this case. It's a very competitive market, there just isn't enough time to keep working on the software until it's perfect.
The software should be 'good enough' and not perfect. I'm 100% sure they have a bugtracker or something else to keep track of major and minor bugs. At some point someone has to make a decision what will and won't be fixed before launch. And what shall be fixed right after launch.
For a new OS with a new UI like on the Hero I think they did very very well on the first release.
Now I fully agree with the OP, the lag/speed issue with the first ROM was not in HTC's favour. It was something that came up in every review, and people still believe that's a big Hero issue even while it's fixed. On the other hand, there might have been more important things that were fixed during development.
Usually speed improvements and tweaking stuff like that is something you do last. Other bugs and stuff has to be fixed first.
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Some of these bugs are quite known more or less right out of the box, for instance logging into the market, you couldn't do this unless you actually entered your google credentials when you first setup the phone.
People are going to compare the Hero with the likes of the iPhone, it's the only comparable handset out on the market at the moment. But what i'm afraid of is the lack of future support for the Hero, as yet another handset is on the horizon from HTC. OK, maybe Apple have got it right in respect of only having to supporting one handset (and very simalar firmwares, agreed) which means more time focusing on bug fixes and upgrades.
I hope HTC do not put the Hero to the back of the pile and focus on new handsets

Nexus One. We're being phased out, and quickly.

NOW! I know it is possibly too early to jump to conclusions, but I have recently been reading through some posts about how our Nexus One's are slowly, sadly and surely becoming obsolete. I agree with this theory in the fact that we aren't getting any love/support anymore. Granted, i know that Froyo is on the way, but i feel as though our hardware could have been better from the get-go, and that now (starting to become the long run since launch) it will be the death of this phone on a large basis. I feel as though Google has left us behind with some major issues, and has crippled the Nexus One name, purely because they seem like they don't want to deal with it anymore. Support is limited at that, and updates are scarce (one update to be exact, and even that OTA had problems), even for non-root users. Development, even though sometimes a tedious task, is moving slowly. We have a small selections of stable roms and thats about it. Nothing super fantastic (granted CyanogenMod and Modaco's ROMS are great, but not legendary), nothing special. I feel like there was more support for the (i hate to bring it in) iPhone in terms of the community and the modding experience.
Simply, I absolutely LOVE my Nexus One, but i feel like it is not getting the support it deserves, and i DO NOT want this beautiful piece of technology to be obsolete by september. i hope you guys are with me on this, because i think we all know that this phone could easily be something BETTER than what it is now. and it SHOULD be able to compete with any phone within a year from now because it's Google's baby. GOOGLE: GIVE US MORE for our phones and for our money. Because, even though i feel like this is the best phone i've ever had, 1) i feel like it'll be obsolete in a few months and 2) im starting to feel like i wasted my money.
long live nexus

+1 .......

The Nexus one will be the standard by which all android phones are measured for at-least another year.
Keeping everything pure AOSP is a huge plus IMO.
Official updates are slow, but code is being committed to the repository regularly and makes it on to the custom ROMS very quickly.
There is no phone out there with better features and community support than the one you have
There is no other phone on google.com/phone... so we are still the only child.

Google is trying to catch up the rest of the android world to 2.1
VZ cut them off it seems from the N1 and instead VZ gets another great Android handset.
Froyo has some much needed upgrades and will help (in theory) android solidify itself by stabilizing the platform for devs.
JIT/Flash/Market /Open GL / market upgrades are on there way if you believe the rumors.
What is it you feel is being phased out ?
Only about 500k users have an N1. Thats a miniscule amount.
Even with that we have two great devs putting out some very stable ROMS. Unlike the past N1 came with so many damn features out of box that we didnt need ROMs and Apps to add the 101 missing features.
Listen I am still up in Googles rectum about alot of features that need to be fixed/enhanced on Android. We all knew N1 was the first of the snapdragons. The others are storming in blasting taking attention away from us...but theyre all on the same team....they all bleed green =-)
Sure Id love to be slapping on Sense widgets , Moto Blur social network apps , etc...but thats up to us as a community to do it (if ever technically possible).
Anyways feel good about your purchase. You still have the best available phone on the market and will until the EVO/Iphone4G drop. And even then..youd still be top 3 at worst.

There isn't much development because there isn't much to do. The Nexus has the latest firmware and top specs. Of announced phones only the Evo and Galaxy S have significantly better specs everything else is just a SLIGHTLY upgraded Nexus. No porting apps or firmwares are needed. The only thing to really do is optimize what we have (cyanogen is doing that) and port sense UI (Paul is doing that). I'm happy with my Nexus .....for now hehe

zach I can understand the complaints about some of the nagging issues the phone has had (3G, purple tint etc.) but two things we have to realize: A majority of the users don't experience these problems, and in no way is our phone going to be obsolete anytime soon.
Here is a post I made regarding the Incredible screen, I think it's relevant here:
jasrups said:
Here's my take:
Would I like to have this screen in my Nexus? Yea it would have been a nice feature. Do I need this screen? No, not in the slightest.. Not yet anyways. The only apps that would require a screen like that are games, and I don't play the type of games on my phone that would require axis-crossing multitouch. I know some people do, and I can respect that but I don't, hence why I don't care about this right now.
Frankly, if you're playing those kinds of games anyways, just get an iPhone (and I'm not saying that in a bad way). iPhone is unmatched when it comes to gameplay and plus you can get them all for free if you jailbreak. Yea The Incredible has a capable screen, but do you know long it's going to take Android to catch up to Apple when it comes to game quality?? Android just got games like Racing Thunder 2 and Homerun Battle 3D while you can play Street Fighter 4 and freaking Grand Theft Auto on the iPhone! It's no competition.. if you want to game, you don't have the right phone.
By the time Android actually starts developing games and apps that can take advantage of the axis crossing MT, The Incredible will be "obsolete" (as some of you like to put it) so no need for everyone to get their panties in a bunch
With most things I normally have a realist perspective and am usually the first to 'hate' on something when its deserved, but alot of you guys are just a bunch of downers. The Incredible is a great phone as is the Nexus, everyone should just appreciate what they have! If you keep chasing the newest technology (no matter how impractical it is) you will never be satisfied!
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There will always be new technology coming out faster than we can keep up with, the important thing is to not prematurely write one product off as soon as a newer one becomes available. People will be saying the same thing about the Incredible/4G Evo etc in a few months from now. That's just the ways things are. If you have that mentality you will want a new phone every few months regardless of how good it is.
Regarding the selection of ROMS.. Guys, right now we have the top of the line OS on our phones.. 2.1 is the standard, most of the G1/Magic ROMS are trying to replicate what we already have stock. Believe me, once Froyo and Android 3.0 come out the devs will be right on it and we'll get awesome ports. We have great developers who will make sure our phones have the newest software on our devices.
And if worst comes to worst and some of you decide to sell your Nexus this summer, it will have excellent resale value.

Don't worry, This is the phone Google are actively giving to developers. We'll be here for a while to come yet.

Well
I most definetely do not believe the nexus one will be phased out anytime soon, actually i will be ordering one tonight as a matter of fact. yes we may not have the best touch screens or the greatest rom develipment, but that is because we are still number one There are no other builds to even create until phones of this caliber runnng other os are on the scene. And for the touch screen issue, whe the time comes to where we truely need multitouch for games on the market out nexus's WILL be outdated, or there WILL be a fix for this, i mean geez Cyanogen has nearly finished a fully working Eclair for the g1 already, all i see is hope and excitment for the future of this device, the market also needs some serious time to catch up to apples games (please dont get upset with this, its true) The only thing i can see actually outdating our phones are dual processors capable of OVER 1.5 otherwise i dont believe they will be extinct, not even the 1.3 samsung will hurt the nexus i think considering we can be oc'ed to 1.3 anyways i do believe, or at least close

I don't think that we're being phased out, not until another year. Each phone that comes in the market gets compared to Nexus One.
As far as the development is concerned, its very satisfactory. Comparing the development scene between N1 an iPhone, iPhone sold nearly 50x the units of N1 sold. So most app developers have their focus on iPhone as it stands them a better chance of making more money..... But still development on N1 is much better.....

jasrups said:
:
There will always be new technology coming out faster than we can keep up with, the important thing is to not prematurely write one product off as soon as a newer one becomes available. People will be saying the same thing about the Incredible/4G Evo etc in a few months from now. That's just the ways things are. If you have that mentality you will want a new phone every few months regardless of how good it is.
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+1
I’m beginning to think some people have never bought a phone before, or a computer for that matter.
Did people expect the N1 to the absolute top spec phone forever? Seriously its still amazing compared to most, and measures up nicely in all significant ways to these new phones it keeps getting compared to. Stop trying to bury it before its even close to dead.
There is always something newer coming. No exceptions. There are phones in development now that will top the Evo and Incredible. At some point you have to buy something or you’ll wait forever.
The N1 is Google’s flag ship phone. I bought it for that reason. If Google is developing something cool (like FroYo!) its pretty much guaranteed to come to us first. Its not being phased out. I think there are exciting things to come…

You have got to be kidding. Seriously?
zachthemaster said:
NOW! I know it is possibly too early to jump to conclusions, but I have recently been reading through some posts about how our Nexus One's are slowly, sadly and surely becoming obsolete. I agree with this theory
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How does the best Android phone currently on the market obsolete? You must be working from a totally different definition of "obsolete".
zachthemaster said:
in the fact that we aren't getting any love/support anymore.
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THAT must be why Google is giving Nexus Ones out to so many developers! Because they don't love it anymore and want to get rid of it!
zachthemaster said:
Granted, i know that Froyo is on the way, but i feel as though our hardware could have been better from the get-go, and that now (starting to become the long run since launch) it will be the death of this phone on a large basis.
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As if Froyo isn't a major undertaking.
In what way could the hardware have been better, without delaying the release of the phone?
zachthemaster said:
I feel as though Google has left us behind with some major issues, and has crippled the Nexus One name, purely because they seem like they don't want to deal with it anymore. Support is limited at that
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Are we talking about the same phone? In what way is it crippled?
Google has upped its support, hired more support personnel, and continues to present the N1 as its flagship phone. How does that equate to "they don't want to deal with it anymore"?
zachthemaster said:
and updates are scarce (one update to be exact, and even that OTA had problems), even for non-root users.
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How long has the N1 been out? Just how often did you expect an update? I think your expectations might be wildly unrealistic.
And "even for non-root users"!?! WTF does that mean? If anything, non-root users have far fewer updates -- rooted users are getting the updates from CM as soon as Google commits them to the source repository, whereas "even" implies that you expect non-root users to receive more updates, which is completely backwards.
zachthemaster said:
Development, even though sometimes a tedious task, is moving slowly. We have a small selections of stable roms and thats about it. Nothing super fantastic (granted CyanogenMod and Modaco's ROMS are great, but not legendary), nothing special.
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If you don't think CM is "super fantasic" then I invite you to go back to the stock N1 rom. Installing CM for the first time is like getting a whole new phone.
zachthemaster said:
I feel like there was more support for the (i hate to bring it in) iPhone in terms of the community and the modding experience.
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Somebody call the waaaaaaaaaahmbulance.

I don't buy it. I don't like the multitouch sensor they used for the phone, and I think the scrolling could be smoother, but what do you really expect from Google? Short of them sending out free hardware upgrades, what are you really looking for to not feel phased out?
The Nexus One is a great phone, at least for me. Even with the multitouch issues, I'm able to pull off running jumps when I play Super Mario World and the like. And that issue is allegedly being worked on with 2.2. If they flat out said the Nexus One wasn't getting 2.2 then you could make the claim of the Nexus One being phased out.
As far as network issues go, I have zero problems with my AT&T Nexus One and 3G. I live in the DC Metro area, for what it's worth. Most problems I've heard from people are all on T-Mobile. Who's to say the problem isn't on T-Mobile's side instead of Google's? Everyone blames AT&T's network for the iPhone's network issues, but it's pretty clear that the radio in the iPhone is garbage.
We live in a time where there are 1ghz processors in handheld devices. Technology is advancing so fast. It's always going to hurt when your $500+ dollar device isn't the best around anymore, but do you really want forward progress to slow down so you feel like you have the best phone longer?
I think you're being overly paranoid, if you ask me. So long as you love the phone, what do you care?

danguyf said:
You have got to be kidding. Seriously?
How does the best Android phone currently on the market obsolete? You must be working from a totally different definition of "obsolete".
THAT must be why Google is giving Nexus Ones out to so many developers! Because they don't love it anymore and want to get rid of it!
As if Froyo isn't a major undertaking.
In what way could the hardware have been better, without delaying the release of the phone?
Are we talking about the same phone? In what way is it crippled?
Google has upped its support, hired more support personnel, and continues to present the N1 as its flagship phone. How does that equate to "they don't want to deal with it anymore"?
How long has the N1 been out? Just how often did you expect an update? I think your expectations might be wildly unrealistic.
And "even for non-root users"!?! WTF does that mean? If anything, non-root users have far fewer updates -- rooted users are getting the updates from CM as soon as Google commits them to the source repository, whereas "even" implies that you expect non-root users to receive more updates, which is completely backwards.
If you don't think CM is "super fantasic" then I invite you to go back to the stock N1 rom. Installing CM for the first time is like getting a whole new phone.
Somebody call the waaaaaaaaaahmbulance.
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I didn't wanna quote the whole thing (sorry everyone) but this is the post of the year IMO!!!! Every counter argument you made is perfect.....This thread is BOGUS!!!!!!

You can't compare the modding/dev community of the N1 to the iPhone anyways.
The iphone has FAR more units out there, and the Apple cult is still buying. The iPhone also has more that is needed as far as mods to make it a nice OS.
The iPhone also runs native binaries, so there seem to be a lot more standard systems written for it, or so I was told in my Q&A thread. The iPhone has full apt packaging system, full set of GNU tools, full OpenSSH suite, etc.
The iPhone also has a lot more core teams of dedicated modders, while Android seems to have 1-2, at least for the N1. This is, again, I think due to the fact that the iPhone needs more mods to make it a good OS.

Without boobs, this thread is a waste of time.

Not even boobs can rescue the OP's post.

martin0285 said:
I didn't wanna quote the whole thing (sorry everyone) but this is the post of the year IMO!!!! Every counter argument you made is perfect.....This thread is BOGUS!!!!!!
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attn1 said:
Without boobs, this thread is a waste of time.
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I agree wholeheartedly with both of you.

zachthemaster said:
NOW! I know it is possibly too early to jump to conclusions, but I have recently been reading through some posts about how our Nexus One's are slowly, sadly and surely becoming obsolete.
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Can you link these posts?
How is the N1 becoming obsolete? What are your reasons? I have yet to see any indication of this.
updates are scarce (one update to be exact, and even that OTA had problems), even for non-root users.
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What kind of crap is this? Yes, the N1 has received 1 update. Which is 1 more than MANY other Android phones in YEARS.
Development, even though sometimes a tedious task, is moving slowly.
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Here's the Android source code:
http://android.git.kernel.org/
Get to work!
GOOGLE: GIVE US MORE for our phones and for our money
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Give more WHAT?

Enjoy the wave for as long as it lasts... which will be a long time
Tech wise phones go obsolete much faster than a PC ever would for the simple fact that you are in a closed environment. You can't upgrade the RAM, graphics or CPU on one of these things so shelf life is in terms of months not years. But that's not to say that support will go away for the N1 any time soon. OP is just acknowledging/exhibiting the mid-life crisis that the N1 is in currently. It's still the flagship product and a benchmark for every phone slated to be released this year. Next year may be different--hell I'm sure it will be--but for now, we're good and there's enough power that it'll still be viable 2 years from now. If you need a current tangible example, just look at how many G1's there are out there and how long that phone has been out.
I came from the dismally dysfunctional land of the Epix from Samsung where between them and AT&T, they couldn't figure out who was suppose to be doing the obligatory reach-around. With the N1 there are no more worries about the carrier holding up the updates for a fix to a major problem introduced by another fix almost a year prior for an infantile notification issue., there are no more issues with contractual obilgations to corporate partnerships (Yahoo) with draconian imposed restrictions to enforce it(backflip) and mostly there's no more waiting for the mfg to finally update their license to a newer version OS if they even bother going that route to begin with. Open architecture, open software and an infinite amount of potential for old and new phones is why I'm here and I'm sure a bunch of others are too.
So to anyone else reading this and especially to Sprint customers that are waiting for the N1, catch the wave however you want(N1, Evo, etc) but enjoy it for what it is--a long great ride and loads of fun--cowabunga!

Did somebody say boobs? Er, was I supposed to get something else out of this?

This thread is for all those whinging about the delay in froyo and selling their SGS

For those of you moaning and throwing you toys out their prams with regard to the delay in Samsung releasing Froyo and threatening to sell your SGS, I have some good news for you.
Rather than post you rants in other threads that are useful, use this one to act like children.
Those of us who like the SGS don't care about you in the slightest.
There are far more people here giving the phone their support that you the minority.
The only thing I ask is that when you buy your next Android phone, can you please let us know that you are selling it because you are once again throwing your toys out of the pram?
Believe me, I an many others will not be in the slightest bit surprised, however, you could buy and Iphone or better still, give up on the idea of smartphone for now and pray that the likes of Nokia can pull something out of the bag.

This forum would be a hell of a lot cleaner if people could engage their mental ignore more often (and yes, I realise posting just to say this is hypocritical in the extreme). Instead of creating a thread especially for people "to act like children" (which is childish in itself, IMO), why not just ignore them? They'll get the message eventually if people stop responding...

That would NORMALLY work Voleo. But...
Firstly, the Mods aren't closing those threads.. They should because they are dupes anyway, and angry rants aren't relevent to XDA. We now have many copies of the same thread..
Secondly, people who are leaving often feel the need to "threaten" Samsung and whine in every thread for a few weeks about the same problems. Then slowly, some of them seem to switch to blatant lying/deception to spark a mutiny (ie. "the GPS/lag IS a HARDWARE problem" which can't be fixed). Finally then, they sell their phone, post in a few existing threads that they got fed up and sold their phone. Some also start their own thread. Those who are considering doing the same give them a pat on the back and given words of advice off the other trolls considering leaving, for eg "it's healthy to rant". Which continues the chain going. Since they have issues (with the phone and otherwise), they want to make Samsung suffer.
The big problem however, is that doing so, their BS/exaggerations accumulates and if nobody responds, we have a forum filled with rubbish like "33% of the time my phone is laggy". So, in part, we need to tell them to prove their claims, or STFU, because otherwise, they enforce each other, reduce morale here, and cause other people to exaggerate minor problems in their mind, and on the forum.

Oh here we go, yet another thread to ***** around Thought we had enough of them?
If you are not happy with your "product" sell it move on and enjoy the life. Simple. As you definitely wont be loosing money on SGS.
Have always worked for me.
Cheers
Vlad

Now is a good time for Luecke's laws...
Luecke's first law
Those who are dissatisfied will always strive to exaggerate minor device problems in technical forums.
Luecke's second law
When making technical comparisons between devices in arguments, dissatisfied users will compare to devices based on company reputation alone, and will totally ignore fixed problems with that device.

dovla_sa said:
Oh here we go, yet another thread to ***** around Thought we had enough of them?
If you are not happy with your "product" sell it move on and enjoy the life. Simple. As you definitely wont be loosing money on SGS.
Have always worked for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As I said once again, not everyone can just "sell on", and I disagree you "definitely wont lose money"... how not?
The 8Gb SGS was £450 on launch here, if I were to sell now I probably wouldn't even get £300 for it - that's depreciation whichever way you wrap it up - unless of course you bought it second hand to begin with.
I agree in some ways that there are some childish rants in here. I have myself been criticial of the SGS, but my "rants" were detailed and constructive. In some ways, some of the replies I got which were defending the SGS were actually more childish than my constructive criticism, so its not the one sided affair that threads like this portray.
Incidentally, I get the impression that some people simply don't like hearing any criticism of their beloved phone. This is "fanboy" behaviour. Most level headed people would admit that the phone has some relatively major problems, and to say otherwise is burying your head in the sand. I've said it before, it comes down to how heavily you use the phone, and what your past experiences / expectations are.
I'll be honest, I've come close at times to selling the SGS. By xmas there will be a number of phones I would swap with quite happily for one reason or another, but its the phone I've got, and the idea of losing a load of money selling it does not sit easy with me no matter how many faults it might have.
To be fair, thanks to this forum I've actually managed to tweak the phone and get it to a standard which is pretty much more than acceptable, but it has taken me lots of time, and it has taken developers on here lots of time to produce fixes for some of the problems. If it time is money, then the SGS has been by far the most expensive mobile phone I've yet owned!

Wow, the OP is pure hypocrisy.
But I've seen one thing. Most of us hate apple fan boys, but it looks like xda is full of SGS fan boys too.
The point is, the SGS does have problems because of buggy software. No one knows when official fixes are coming out. So for some people, its better to sell, make Samsung look like idiots, and walk. Samsung do deserve to look like fools. Their QA dept. is just royally screwed. Its just sad how great HW is killed by crap SW.
If people wanna rant, then let them. Most of the time the rants are true, but maybe quantitatively exaggerated, example 50% of the time lagging. It nevertheless brings to light real problems of the SGS's SW.

Many people do rant over and over again in every tread. It kind of boring to read same thing over and over again from same people. If they stayed in this tread it would be 30-40% less post in every tread and it would be nice and more correct.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App

asicman said:
Wow, the OP is pure hypocrisy.
But I've seen one thing. Most of us hate apple fan boys, but it looks like xda is full of SGS fan boys too.
The point is, the SGS does have problems because of buggy software. No one knows when official fixes are coming out. So for some people, its better to sell, make Samsung look like idiots, and walk. Samsung do deserve to look like fools. Their QA dept. is just royally screwed. Its just sad how great HW is killed by crap SW.
If people wanna rant, then let them. Most of the time the rants are true, but maybe quantitatively exaggerated, example 50% of the time lagging. It nevertheless brings to light real problems of the SGS's SW.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Awesome post! Thank you. The SGS fanboys are just as annoying as the Apple ones.

Chill, it's just a phone.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App

While I've been using Linux as my main OS since 1997, not all my friends have. I've fixed the lag issue. I wouldn't trust my friends to realize the root cause of the lag problem and then find a fix. They would think the product is bad. And it is. What the hell kind of product has to be jailbroken to correct bad engineering? I'm not talking of too-restrictive-engineering (like App Store), but straight-out bad engineering. After a few days of use and few tens of applications (which is well within normal and encouraged use of a flagship product, non?), lagging becomes terrible. Applying a lag fix results in a roughly ten-fold increase in effective IOPS.
Anyhow, I cannot fix the GPS issue. It has to be done in firmware. I got this phone in JU-FREAKIN'-LY and Samsung STILL haven't fixed this issue. And I ain't complaining about lack of Froyo.
I'M COMPLAINING ABOUT A LACK OF BASIC BUGFIXES!
Oh, and that the slow, overengineered, proprietary Kies application crashes whenever I try to install whatever firmware update they just posted. They were three months late in posting fixes. And now their update procedure doesn't work. Adding insult to injury is not a good idea. What the hell kinda management will let such products out the door - both the 2.1 firmware for the SGS and the now-broken Kies?
Sorry I had to yell at you. I hope you misunderstood because you've listened to too much awesome rock'n'roll music and that has fried your ears.

My phone got faster after lagfix on 2.1 and 2.2, but i never had any big lag that the wieners here have.
I also have an iphone and can compare them. Iphone do lag sometimes to. Sometimes it just freezing. Sometimes it crash. I can say the sgs is better on everything.
The gps is much better.
Better screen.
.....
....
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App

For me, who had a htc diamond and then an iphone 3g... GPS is amazing in the SGS lol

Fanboyism is never good.
Samsung shouldnt have made promise
that they can't keep. Thats not professional.
However, apple fanboys are the worst.
Steve Jobs has become like a religion.

I have used the SGS for 2 months and I am on stock firmware with voodoo lagfix. I don't know why people are complaining about buggy firmware. The firmware is NOT buggy. I never have crashes or major issues with core software components. The only issue is the lag but this can be fixed (i am using voodoo and this fix has eliminates most lag).
As for GPS, I did not encountered any issues with it with most navigation software. Some times accuracy may not be perfectly accurate but is still within tolerance.
Froyo may bring more goodies, but even as it is now, the Galaxy is near perfect. I think this phone will still come out on top in any pro-con list with other phones.

whats is the big deal.. every phone has bugs.. I had an I phone3g and once it was loaded with apps it would hang up from time to time and lag.. the same with the blackberry bold 2nd gen that I had it would lag all over once it had alot of apps... HTC's phones are the same way.. This is what can happens once the OS's on smart phones becomes complex.. its not just the Samsung S..
I'm running JPK with no lag fix.. (no need for it with JPK) and alot of people I have showed the phone too can't get over how fast it is.. these are people with Iphones and Blackberrys.

TriC_101 said:
whats is the big deal.. every phone has bugs.........
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The big deal is Samsungs ignorance or incompetence to make a bug fix. I bought my SGS late june, and still no GPS fix from Samsung.
I can live with a laggy and erratic GPS, but I can not live with a GPS who sometimes are running in the parallel streets and tries to guide me back to the street I am actually driving for the moment.
Edit:
My SGS is in for service for 3. time now. If the GPS is not working when it returns, it will be "3 Strikes Out" and my money back and Samsung's ignorance or incompetence has saved me my money.

TriC_101 said:
whats is the big deal.. every phone has bugs..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah, because every phone has bugs we have to shut down the mouth and say nothing?
If an iPhone 4 has bugs we have to say that, if an HTC has bugs we have to say that.

Nobody is saying don't say anything.. But what is getting annoying:
People posting dedicated threads containing the bugs which annoy them, instead of posting to the threads already discussing the separate bugs. Strangely, they aren't marked as dupes...
The constant exaggerations and lies. Rather than have an honest debate, many are choosing to heavily exaggerate/lie about their problems. Rather than have an honest debate, many people are also trying to close debate with BS such as "the gps problems ARE HARDWARE, end of story!", or use fake statistics such as "this phone is unusable 66% of the time it's so laggy". The other side isn't perfect either though, and some are saying "the GPS is perfect, but they wont post tracks".
The lack of proof. People are getting away with inventing claims too easily. ON BOTH SIDES. People are accepting "it's detailed in another thread" as evidence, whilst in many cases, it isn't actually PROVEN in any other thread, or the "proof" has flaws .
People are getting called fanboy's when they question a claim. This shouldn't happen
People who are dissatisfied need to patting their fellow whingers on the back for creating threads and venting.
We need more people to question what is said, and just because something IS said, to not allow them to be called a fanboy. That's the problem. There's a lot of BS on both sides, and not enough questioning.

No external linking is allowed?! How am I going to prove this? Let's be manaul:
My endomondo account 225326 has workouts using both a Nokia n82 (before July) and Samsung Galaxy S (starting in july). The Nokia workouts rarely had GPS issues aside from inaccuracy when running close to larger buildings. I do all the time with my Samsung Galaxy S, it will only have sporadic locks. It is useless for tracking workouts, it only works as a glorified stopwatch. Google Maps is close to unusable, especially when outside urban areas where there's enough base stations to triangulate with fair accuracy.
If you turn off the radio assist thing, you'll experience exactly how reliable the GPS is. I dare you to try!

Fascinate/Verizon Experience...

I don't know about the rest of you all but my experience with this phone and Verizon is not great. I expected the phone to be up to par with various other phones but its not. Its laughable how it hasn't even got the 2.2 update yet when some phones are already moving to 2.3 updates. Samsung is quite a let down! I will be buying the HTC Thunderbolt when it comes out (hopefully thats soon). It looks like it will be a lot like the EVO on Sprint which I love. Goodbye Samsung!

Well if your only complaint is you're .1 behind, I'd say your case is weak at best. Enjoy your Thunderbolt.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App

Lodingi said:
Well if your only complaint is you're .1 behind, I'd say your case is weak at best. Enjoy your Thunderbolt.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are others like the fact that they decided to use Bing instead of Google. Seriously? What a great idea that was!

martouf13 said:
There are others like the fact that they decided to use Bing instead of Google. Seriously? What a great idea that was!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That can be fixed too...

boostedjti said:
That can be fixed too...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to agree that, out of the box, this phone is a huge disappointment. The screen is nice, but everything done to the software is atrocious. Although I like to play with ROMs and root my phone and all that, no one should HAVE to do that to have a good experience with an Android phone. The real fragmentation happening with Android is the fact that Google, through the AOSP, is letting manufacturers take a product that has become thoroughly refined and muck it up. If I was an average (non-techy) user, and my first experience of Android was the Fascinate, I would be TREMENDOUSLY let down. It is much different for computers where the crap we don't want may just take an extra hour or two to go through add/remove programs in Windows. The savings you will get on a PC easily justify this slight time waste. This is not the case with phones. Most people are a slave to the experience the manufacturer gives them, and often times this experience will shape your opinion of an overall product. Having owned a Nexus One, and having rooted/ROMed my original G1, I am fully aware of the experience Android is capable of. Sadly many people don't get to experience this and often get a watered down, murky presentation of what Android was/is meant to be.

I have owned many phones, HTC and others. I have never had such a great experience. I think this phone is terrific. The things I can do with this phone are outstanding. I like the look, the feel but especially what it can do. The camera is good, can take a picture of handwritten notes, almost anything that you want to recall later. The apps, camcard, camscanner, earth, smart tools, documents to go - it goes on and on. I really can't, at this point, image a better phone. It's the BEST.

Just to keep it short and sweet:
I love my Fascinate. I came from a Samsung Omnia II so the Windows Mobile > Android jump obviously has been like night and day.
I am however, on my second Fascinate (details here) simply because I had signal issues with my first one. Not Verizon's fault, not Samsung's fault, just a lemon. It happens. This new one has been great with battery life (24+ hours before needing a charge), I've always loved Samsung's camera software, and I've customized the hell out of the phone without even bothering to root it as I just haven't had a need to yet. And this is coming from someone who used to flash ROMs practically monthly with his Omnia II.
I don't live in a metro area so 4G will not get to my locale until 2013ish most likely. And for me, 3G speeds work perfectly fine for what *I* want to do on a phone on a daily basis and if I need WiFi speeds, it's there. I could've waited for a 4G phone or an iPhone, but personally, right now, this is the phone for me. Fast (and will get faster with 2.2), beautiful display, thin, customizable...
My coworkers have an LG Ally, an HTC Incredible, and a Motorola Droid X - I like my phone better and so do most of them
The beautiful thing about Android is that with each vendor's phones there are pros and cons. For me, this phone fits perfectly.
But, just to keep things in perspective, there are of course annoyances:
#1) Bing. My bypass is I have a Voice Search shortcut on my home screen to do voice searches (that go straight to Google) and I have my browser's homepage set to google.com. I never see Bing, but it's still an annoyance.
#2) Delay after delay of 2.2. This is just some sort of commercial/bureaucratic bs, but it still sucks and I'll be happier than I am now when we get it.

Why all the Samsung misconception and hate?

I have seen numerous HTC fans spew crap about Samsung for updates and build quality issues. For example, many state that the plastic build quality is of very low quality, of which is very opposite in reality in which in plastic is actually very solid. I have dropped my Vibrant many times and it still looks like new, can't say that about metal which dents and gets dinged. As for updates, blame your carriers. The international versions got updates several months before the carrier versions.
Here are some quotes from some obvious HTC users.
"Last year, Consumer Reports (a major U.S. publication) branded the U.S. Galaxy S versions as some of the best Android phones. Not only were they NOT the best, they were missing some basic functionality and lagged like a phone from a previous generation. Let's not even talk about lack of support from Samsung. Too many people fall for the SAMOLED eye candy and ignore everything else."
Or "Thank god I have some help.. hehe I honestly dunno why these SamSux people think S G II is pretty muhahua. It's one ugly plastic crap i've ever seen. They keep coming in HTC thread telling people to buy their plastic crap. "
Or "Another troll just childish, u will se Samsung will never have so awesome devs like HTC phones have especially when.I look at the desire section, a lot of them will buy a sensation and that's the reason why i will buy one to "
What do you think about the public conception of Samsung here at XDA?

The first quote is spot on. The lag was unbearable, the GPS inop, and support was nonexistent. Samoled was nice until you seen the jagged text. Battery life was also terrible. The phones are usable now, after 3-4 updates (updates that were bricking phones and frying storage, mind you) but the GPS is still borderline useless for lots of people and it still lags more than a Samsung jack wm6.5 device (by a long shot).
I they do better with the s2 good for them, but they are indefendable irt these phones. Hype can only get you so far...
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express

N8ter said:
The first quote is spot on. The lag was unbearable, the GPS inop, and support was nonexistent. Samoled was nice until you seen the jagged text. Battery life was also terrible. The phones are usable now, after 3-4 updates (updates that were bricking phones and frying storage, mind you) but the GPS is still borderline useless for lots of people and it still lags more than a Samsung jack wm6.5 device (by a long shot).
I they do better with the s2 good for them, but they are indefendable irt these phones. Hype can only get you so far...
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Way to read my first paragraph. Support was due to the carriers, not Samsung directly. And I still do not understand what this lag is, even on JFD I had installed 30 apps and still little to no lag for me.
And the jagged text? have both a HD7 and a HD2 with me no, and I see no difference worth speaking of between the screens. I do 20/20 vision.
Battery life terrible? Wait till you see the desire HD or thunderbolt. The GS2 has also been reported to have good battery life.
Have you even tried a custom rom N8ter? CM7 nevers lags, even when underclocked to 400 mhz. And as to that HTC phones work better out of the box statement, we are on XDA. Hell, many of those HTC fanboys wanted the Sensation due to the dev attention they believed it would get, even with a locked bootloader.

I don't mod my phones and nor should anyone be expected to. The performance of the phone now is usable. Where was cyanogen in august to December 2010, though?
Don't answer that.
Bunch of excuses. What you quoted is true.
Text on a samoled panel is more jagged than on others. Its a side effect of the pen tile pixel arrangement used. Its very noticeable when you have white text on a black background - at least for me it is.
These panels also suffer from burnin more than any other screen type I've used.
Support from carriers does not help when the hardware is faulty (gps)'or the device has design flaw like rfs. Samsung can push out an update that replaces rfs. They choose not to. They should have recalled phones with known hw gps falls but.they just blamed it on the users andbgave them a useless tool to rwser some setting many of us never touched to begin with.
I read your whole post btw, bit I'm typing from devices so stop acting.like I'm obligated to comment on or rebut every tucking thing in it...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

The way I see it is why would anyone buy an android and use it stock lol considering stock is garbage to custom roms. End of story

This is the fourth vibrant I've had, gps was piss poor, and I was able to get new ones because of it. This newest handset has really good locks. I like the phone even after the gps problems. I bought an otter box and some ghost armor. With the case it feels solid. I know not everyone will get a case to make the phone feel built but it's nice. Id buy another samsung device no problem. I like the feel and ease of use.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Bionix next gen
Overstock kernel to 1.2
kb5 modem

Fact: Despite samsung's delay in releasing froyo for the vibrant and it's GPS problems, the vibrant was/is still a greatr phone with an awesome display and great hardware!
Guys , am just wating for galaxy s 2 , rumour has it that it is going to be the best smart phone for a long time!!

I have to agree with N8ter. This will probably be my last Samsung device. I told myself from the start I'd never get another Samsung device, but it was all Asurion had to replace my water-damaged, but beloved N1. Ugh. I wish I had waited for them to get something else.
The lag KILLS me! I want to throw the damn phone against the wall or some concrete almost daily. Samsung could have definitely kept RFS to their damn selves. Even the browser lags on me most times.
I get a bunch of missed calls even when I have full coverage. The only way I'd even know I would miss them is if my girlfriend would text me to pick up my phone or check Google Voice for missed calls.
The GPS... yeah. Go back to the comment about me wanting to throw my phone against the hardest surface available, and multiply that by 100. The GPS has almost made me late for several appointments (job interviews, drug testing, etc.), and actually gotten me lost in my own native home of Atlanta. I don't get how the hell the GPS can possibly think I'm somewhere .5 miles away then where I am actually am.
I absolutely hate how it doesn't have an LED. NoLED does the job, but isn't really what I would call a suitable replacement.
I also hate how it looks like an iPhone. If I wanted an iPhone lookalike, I would have went out and bought an iPhone. I am really tired of people always asking me, "Is that an iPhone?"
I also despise TouchWiz. I despise manufacturer skins in general, but touchwiz REALLY grinds my gears.
One of the very few good redeeming qualities about this damn phone is the amount of internal storage, but which I barely make use of b/c of wanting to keep all of files stored on my external. I also like the dev tools they have, such as Odin. It's saved me a couple of times from bad flashing and just plain operator error. I also like how easy it was to install the front facing camera. But, then again, why the hell should I have to install it in the first place?
Overall, I am not a happy camper with Samsung. Once I start this new job, or get my financial aid refund check , it's definitely time for a new phone, and it sure as hell won't be Samsung. I was thinking about giving this phone to my girlfriend to replace her T-Mobile Tap, but I don't know if I want to torture her that much.
P.S. This is after using custom roms. God forbid how horrid my experience would have been on stock. I think I might have really thrown it in oncoming traffic.

its obvious that you're stuck in your mindset, so why even start a thread? its useless. coming from an owner of both brands, each have pros and cons. my epic and inspire both have poor battery life. inspire is smooth while the epic lags. furthermore, my epic has better overall display, but the inspire looks better picture wise, not contrast or color, quality. my point is, phones appeal to one person or another. no need for a useless thread targeting one manufacturer.
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA App

Glad to see Samsung has learned their lesson, they have released sgs2 with unlocked boot loader and they just released sgs2 source as well
Thanks Samsung, I'll prefer you over htc and motorola
Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk

I am quite satisfied with my vibrant coming from an HD2 NAND.
It is quite fast and has a much more pleasant desing than most other HTC phones.
Only problem is the HORRIBLE gps.

mugenfiji0327 said:
You are just whining and repeating what other members have stated so many times in this thread. HTC sucks, Samsung will always be better. All the problems that you are whining about disappeared when custom roms came. That's the point of custom roms so you don't have to use the crappy stock firmware. Anyway if you are still having trouble after using a custom rom and still think you have room to complain, then you probably shouldn't even own an android device and it is most likely user error. You're just an HTC fanboy, I am not saying that Samsung is the best but they are better than HTC. On top of that the Vibrant outdoes most of the new phones and all of the older phones that T-mobile has and it's over 6 months old. So quit basing your opinions on the phone off of your HTC loyalty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And you're a closed-minded Samsung fanboy so you can take your opinion and go eat shi* for all I care. Most of my complaints might have been stated already, but clearly the more times it's stated proves it's not just isolated incidents. I'm not basing my phone off of any loyalty. I'm basing it off of the fact that it frustrates the hell out of me. And I assure you it's not user error. I've been dealing with computers and electronics and modding etc since I was 7 and am a computer science major, so I assure you it's not user error. Every single one of those problems has persisted since I used a custom rom, and who the hell are you to tell me I shouldn't own an Android device? I know all about custom roms and have been using them since I got my first smartphone, the HTC wizard. If you think Samsung is better than HTC, that's fine. We're all entitled to our opinion. I, however, could care less about another Samsung phone ever again. I really regret the day my Nexus One fell in that pot of water.
mugenfiji0327 said:
Every HTC phone that I have ever owned or seen has been the most worthless product. I would rather dig an old razr out from the bottom of a dumpster and use it than to ever use an HTC product again. All they have is cons, no pros at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And you call me a fanboy. Yeah. Ok. At least I'm willing to admit this phone does have some pros.

I like the sgs line. Sure, there not the best out there, but as a rom chef and themer, I can honestly say this this phone is the best for that. Almost unbrickable. Don't forget, with HTC and moto(dont quote me on moto), they don't have Odin. That is a HUGE selling point for me. I would be pissed if I spent $x on a HTC phone, and had a bad flash. Now its a door stop. Just my .2.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA Premium App

mugenfiji0327 said:
Everybody always runs to the I'm a computer science major and I've been working with technology since I was this age excuse.BS, I don't buy one word of that and I am willing to bet a lot on the fact that it is user error and you most likely do not even know close to what you are saying you know. If you are a computer science major then instead of complaining about the problems then why don't you fix them tough guy ? That's what I thought, full of bs just like every other troll on every other forum. I'm not a Samung fanboy or close minded I just know that samsung is and always will be better than the worthless company known as HTC that you love oh so much.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol. Quite frankly I don't give a damn WHAT you believe. I don't have to prove myself to some anonymous person on the internet. You can eat **** and die for all I care. I know it's not user error. Even if I don't have the know how to go in and fix Samsung's mistakes myself, yet, I know how to read carefully and apply others' fixes. So go troll someone else. Like I said, it's your OPINION that Samsung is the better company, and that's fine. But, as for myself, I know I won't be giving Samsung another chance.
Good day to you.

I have seen Plastic = poor build quality in US mostly.

it's a loyalty thing, you know the last HTC device i owned was actually an I-Mate. still to this day I remember how damn awesome that thing was. swivel screen, Large Keyboard, solid PLASTIC construction, stereo speakers, 3.5 jack. etc. OS blew, think it was windows mobile umm 5? i know i ran 6.5 on it before i upgraded.
this phone was a beast. and the last HTC built device i ever owned as i switched to nokia and sony Ericsson smart phone devices, somehow i ended up with a samsung i900 Omnia (gsm) and have stuck with samsung since.
http://www.gsmarena.com/i_mate_jasjar-1262.php <--Beast.

Pretty cool ! I like how it supported 3g video calling in 2005 I had a Nokia 6630 then

To each their own.
I am commited to buying a usa sgs2. Why with the terrible support we've had? I truely think that samsung has learned their lesson. Releasing the source so soon after the phones launch is amazing. I have also read just about every review and watched every video. Its exactly the experience I want.
Even with all the problems of the sgs... I still love it. The reason why I know I love it is cause I am currently using a mytouch 4g. Its great that I can overclock it to 1.5ghz. Frankly I am really starting to miss my vibrant. I Love that phone. With its ****ty gps and its laggy ass stock ui and its horrible support. I am after all A tinker at heart!

mugenfiji0327 said:
I'm not trolling, I'm just simply trying to get an ignorant bullshitter to shut his mouth that's all. As far as I know that's not trolling,it's doing the forum a favor.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't have time to argue with a close-minded idiot. If you can't accept other people have opinions different from yours, then that's your problem. Now, I said good day.

boystuff said:
it's a loyalty thing, you know the last HTC device i owned was actually an I-Mate. still to this day I remember how damn awesome that thing was. swivel screen, Large Keyboard, solid PLASTIC construction, stereo speakers, 3.5 jack. etc. OS blew, think it was windows mobile umm 5? i know i ran 6.5 on it before i upgraded.
this phone was a beast. and the last HTC built device i ever owned as i switched to nokia and sony Ericsson smart phone devices, somehow i ended up with a samsung i900 Omnia (gsm) and have stuck with samsung since.
http://www.gsmarena.com/i_mate_jasjar-1262.php <--Beast.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A friend of mine still uses this as his daily phone, he managed to preserved it all this long in a mint condition too