Database Users

[DISCUSSION] ANDROID/MAEMO/LINUX on HD2 (Discussion Thread)

Okay I'm a lurker on the developer thread and I thought it best to create a separate topic where everyone can talk about it (or complain that people can't shoehorn an OS on a device fast enough for their liking despite the fact that people are doing it for free basically) without all this "DEVELOPER DISCUSSION ONLY AUGUGHGH" "but we don't know where else to post about it"-ism
so this thread is for the non-developer discussion of said project:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=578575
(won't let me past "outside links"(?) cos I'm a n00b for some reason)
so there's no excuse now for anyone who posts "when is it done?" in the other thread
Also, a few pointers since some people don't get it and I'd rather save a developers/non-developers civil war thing.
How long will it take? - You're looking at about a year at least. Remember, it's installing an OS on a system that isn't meant to even have it. It's going to take a hell of a lot of time to guesswork and muck around with this stuff.
(all the people moaning on engadget re: the US HD2 launch being all "HTC release an android update right now " and then being all "OH XDA WILL SORT IT OUT" (because apparently xda is their overnight miracle machine) annoy me something chronic for this reason.)
remember too that these people are more or less doing this for free.
Can't you just install the Nexus/Supersonic/etc. rom on there? - No.
from what I understand of the whole thing (I'm not a developer so take this with a pinch of salt) there's an awful lot of different code and such on these things which means it isn't as easy to just "install" it on another OS. It's like asking why you just can't fit a jaguar engine into a VW beetle. It could work, but there'd be a lot of work and rerouting etc. to be made and even then it would need a lot of tuning and sorting out.
Is it ready yet? - No. You will know when it's ready.
What's happening at the moment? - From what I've read of the whole thing they're trying to iron out kinks with the linux Haret thing thats going to run Android. After they've got it to boot, they're going to have to try and get android working with the HD2. This is why it's taking so long.
so yeah.

hey??
yeah but..
this is the xda DEVELOPERS forum
and this is the HD2 DEVELOPEMENT section
so i guess the linux android development thread does what its supposed to !!
i know its frustrating and you like me want android on the hd2 but to be honest i i find half the fun is the bloody long wait and the small progressions that are made, thats how we learn.
=====PEACE=====
edit >> ok looks like this thread was useful after all - my wrong !! ..

**shrug**
A mod can move it elsewhere if needs be, I was just getting sick of all the feuding going on between people who wanted to talk about it and the developers yelling at the people who aren't posting about developing and thought it best to make a separate thread so non-developer people can talk about the project and developer people can drop in and give advice

yeah
actually you got a point.
theres a fair ammount of flame grill on the other thread that does get annoying
i subscribe to the other thread so i get an instant email for every post and i get my email on my hd2 just as you would a text message so it can be a pain.
=====PEACE=====

Ha finally found again this topic.
I am wishing you all my best to port Android to the HD2 because with all the **** around WinMo 7 comptability, you look the only one able to save the HD2 in the future!
I really hope everyday that Android will be working on our HD2...
Btw, the HTC Desire is going to be out soon, and it has the same specification than the HD2... Does it increase the chance got Android on our HD2?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=594
Good luck and all my best !
Zepiii

i hope we get android on our HD2's with spb mobileshell 5.0

Zepiii said:
Ha finally found again this topic.
I am wishing you all my best to port Android to the HD2 because with all the **** around WinMo 7 comptability, you look the only one able to save the HD2 in the future!
I really hope everyday that Android will be working on our HD2...
Btw, the HTC Desire is going to be out soon, and it has the same specification than the HD2... Does it increase the chance got Android on our HD2?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=594
Good luck and all my best !
Zepiii
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All about Gizmondo.com or Gizmondo.fr its bull**** !!
This web site works for Apple its sure !!
Edit : mistake but im sure about Gizmondo

Ok

Too bad we're stuck with low level developers who can't get it done. We need real developers who actually know what they are doing.

simranjits said:
Too bad we're stuck with low level developers who can't get it done. We need real developers who actually know what they are doing.
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Click to collapse
Like Android would be wounderfull to have WebOS runing on HD2...a beautifull simbiose with outlook and Itunes integrations.....and push notifications...and light apps for everythink.
I dreaming with that.

simranjits said:
Too bad we're stuck with low level developers who can't get it done. We need real developers who actually know what they are doing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Careful now mate. Watch what you say!

simranjits said:
Too bad we're stuck with low level developers who can't get it done. We need real developers who actually know what they are doing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why don't *YOU* take the lead then if you're so capable of passing judgement on other people; as to do that you must have some amazing development skills in getting an operating system running on unknown poorly documented hardware.
Obvioiusly everyone will bow down to your uberleet level of skill when *YOU* present all of the fine work *YOU* have done!
otherwise...
stop being so bloody rude!
Dcordes knows a fair bit more than most people about linux hacking for ppc devices, I suggest you give him the respect he and others deserve!
if this post upsets you think about what you wrote...

I'm hopeing that it will not sound total idiot, but:
why it's not possible to use NexusOne rom dump, and using it for HD2. Hardware is nearly same except buttons and screen size.
thanks

zabique said:
I'm hopeing that it will not sound total idiot, but:
why it's not possible to use NexusOne rom dump, and using it for HD2. Hardware is nearly same except buttons and screen size.
thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ooooh dear...i´m still wondering why people are that damn lazy these days, not reading just one line in threads that are having 709 posts at this moment...don´t you people think that there should be a 100 percent-likelihood (in a developers-forum!) that another big brain spits out such ideas? exactly 1.000 other so called "newbies" have mentioned this point in the past few weeks...sometimes in every third post, again and again, without having read what other people have posted one line above. This is not about beeing a newbie or not, this is just about a little respect to the developers, serving nice presents to all of us without getting paid for it. what you guys can do for them? well, the first step should be not to spam around questions that already have been answered 1000 times before...instead go and read through the replies and at the end, when you are sure that there is no answer yet (after using the search function too, of course)...THAN ask your question or type in your comments and I think everbody will thank you for your participation in this community.
Sorry zabique, of course this is not against you ...but after reading exactly the same line for the 20st time/last two weeks there was no inhibition of my fingers typing these lines possible

i have a lot of respect for those developers, i die a bit inside every time a noob asks how it is going and **** like that.. anyway its nice they are working on it and i hope they succeed! dual boot windows / android would be really cool to have! i will surely donate if its working.. but to who should i donate? maybe its an idea to make a sort of bounty (lets say i will give $20 for getting android on hd2) and someone else also $20. thats 40 in total. if that 40 is shared and given to the developers that have worked on that project it would be a stimulation for them i guess.. only i dont know what developers are working intensively..
anyway my reward will be $20
more of you are going to join?
maybe its an idea to add the totall's of the $$ and the name who gives what in the first post?

fards said:
Why don't *YOU* take the lead then if you're so capable of passing judgement on other people; as to do that you must have some amazing development skills in getting an operating system running on unknown poorly documented hardware.
Obvioiusly everyone will bow down to your uberleet level of skill when *YOU* present all of the fine work *YOU* have done!
otherwise...
stop being so bloody rude!
Dcordes knows a fair bit more than most people about linux hacking for ppc devices, I suggest you give him the respect he and others deserve!
if this post upsets you think about what you wrote...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If i wanted to do it myself , would i be bothering myself with these amateurs. At least i know i can't do it, but these guys don't know when to stop. Like i said we need real developers. All they are doing is guesswork and their debuging techniques are crude.

simranjits said:
If i wanted to do it myself , would i be bothering myself with these amateurs. At least i know i can't do it, but these guys don't know when to stop. Like i said we need real developers. All they are doing is guesswork and their debuging techniques are crude.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course with the guy who have your thinking psychologically, we have the desire to continue working.
Maybe now you know guys who are better and who are willing to take the trouble to come and work for free for fun, to the delight of members!
If this is not the case, then dont write!
I think you're not an adult, easy to dictate but to do the works is another thing.

simranjits said:
If i wanted to do it myself , would i be bothering myself with these amateurs. At least i know i can't do it, but these guys don't know when to stop. Like i said we need real developers. All they are doing is guesswork and their debuging techniques are crude.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
all you know is nothing...
so please shut up and let people who do know what they are talking about get on with it..

fards said:
all you know is nothing...
so please shut up and let people who do know what they are talking about get on with it..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
actually he is quite right. if you have any idea what developers are talking about then you can see that all they do is guess in trial and error style. but aparently you dont have any idea

From the viewpoint of a software architect, it's indeed hard to watch the other thread without crinching every once in a while. On the other hand, the plan of attack there seems to be part of a culture that has done stuff like this quite succesfully with other challenges.
So i won't be surprised if we eventually get a nice port of android running on the HD2.
Mind you, i do believe that an undertaking like this would need the infrastructure, tools and mindset like the main android project has in place at the moment. But that would require a "DEVs and Testers only" door policy.
Simply put, the other thread here lets the lesser gods put their 2 cents in too. I'm cool with that.
BTW, i do not approve of any condescending remarks about the the other thread, nor do i wish to make my own through this mail.

What to do using unsupported Rom?

Hi,
What should I do if the rom I am using and really like has disappeared and now is unsupported?
I'm using an AOSP Froyo rom and I can't seem to find any others let alone one which everything works in.
Yes I'm using Cronos Froyo, and I'm an honest user who doesn't care much for xda forums politics.
I've read the comments that the moderators have written in the thread and whilst I understand what they have written, do end users really have to suffer because of a dispute between developers?
Yes I agree in principle that source should be released with the release, but don't other rom devs have a donators only beta testing section before general release for testing which also occurs before source code release? Feeyo as far as I'm aware takes no donations what so ever.
Also, I wonder if the xda moderators have consulted laywers about the GPL as it is a legal document and thus won't be as black and white as it seems. A lot of companies behave not dissimilarly to feeyo and survive the threat of any action.
Beyond this, hero users really owe a lot to feeyo for the couple of months before official 2.1 got released as he was the only dev to get 2.1 working properly with long lasting battery life.

plonkersaurus said:
Hi,
What should I do if the rom I am using and really like has disappeared and now is unsupported?
I'm using an AOSP Froyo rom and I can't seem to find any others let alone one which everything works in.
Yes I'm using Cronos Froyo, and I'm an honest user who doesn't care much for xda forums politics.
I've read the comments that the moderators have written in the thread and whilst I understand what they have written, do end users really have to suffer because of a dispute between developers?
Yes I agree in principle that source should be released with the release, but don't other rom devs have a donators only beta testing section before general release for testing which also occurs before source code release? Feeyo as far as I'm aware takes no donations what so ever.
Also, I wonder if the xda moderators have consulted laywers about the GPL as it is a legal document and thus won't be as black and white as it seems. A lot of companies behave not dissimilarly to feeyo and survive the threat of any action.
Beyond this, hero users really owe a lot to feeyo for the couple of months before official 2.1 got released as he was the only dev to get 2.1 working properly with long lasting battery life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe he still releases in his forum - just do a google search

nope, it seems his account has been suspended on the domain, not good.

plonkersaurus said:
sing an AOSP Froyo rom and I can't seem to find any others let alone one which everything works in.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's AOSP ROMs. Without even plugging my own, there's the Fusion project for a start.

Froyd and Fusion are Cyanogen based roms which I've tried and don't work so well for me.
I'd count them as Vanilla roms not AOSP

Dude. You might as well turn xda into thepiratebay.Breaking a software licence is illegal no matter if the software is proprietary or open source.
Sent from my HTC Hero using XDA App

plonkersaurus said:
Froyd and Fusion are Cyanogen based roms which I've tried and don't work so well for me.
I'd count them as Vanilla roms not AOSP
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only non AOSP thing about them is:
They include Google Apps
They include proprietary libs grabbed from the phone to make the phone work.
Guess what, that's what AOSP ROMs do too, the ones released here anyway, since they're largely unusable without Google Apps (Market, etc) and the libs needed to make the phone work.
If you want plain AOSP, you better have an ADP1, ADP2 or a Nexus One. There is no such thing as a pure AOSP Hero ROM.
What people mean when they refer to AOSP, is they yanked the git straight from Android and compiled it for X phone, adding in whatever apps along with the Google apps and the prop libs.
Cyanogenmod is also AOSP in that same sense. Only there's a ton of people working on the repo and fixing stuff that Android don't or haven't yet.
If you've run into a CM based ROM that doesn't work well for you then it's still down to the builder. Chances are if they made an "AOSP" ROM, it'd be even worse.

I'm actually a professional software developer.
The Hero community here, as it is, I would never contribute to, because I wouldn't want my work included into someone elses rom that they then take donations for (I would never ask for donations for my work) especially since there seems to be no pioneering development going on by themselves.
So I see feeyo as someone like me, but with a drive to get things working on the hero.
In my eyes he is a bit like a vigilante or I guess like Batman. What Batman does is illegal too you know.
Sometimes there is such thing as the lesser of two evils and the greater good.
He harmed no one doing what he did.

Hacre said:
The only non AOSP thing about them is:
They include Google Apps
They include proprietary libs grabbed from the phone to make the phone work.
Guess what, that's what AOSP ROMs do too, the ones released here anyway, since they're largely unusable without Google Apps (Market, etc) and the libs needed to make the phone work.
If you want plain AOSP, you better have an ADP1, ADP2 or a Nexus One. There is no such thing as a pure AOSP Hero ROM.
What people mean when they refer to AOSP, is they yanked the git straight from Android and compiled it for X phone, adding in whatever apps along with the Google apps and the prop libs.
Cyanogenmod is also AOSP in that same sense. Only there's a ton of people working on the repo and fixing stuff that Android don't or haven't yet.
If you've run into a CM based ROM that doesn't work well for you then it's still down to the builder. Chances are if they made an "AOSP" ROM, it'd be even worse.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cyanogenmod roms change a lot more things than just needed to get android working properly and I'm not a huge fan of all the changes

plonkersaurus said:
Hi,
What should I do if the rom I am using and really like has disappeared and now is unsupported?
.....
Yes I agree in principle that source should be released with the release, but don't other rom devs have a donators only beta testing section before general release for testing which also occurs before source code release? Feeyo as far as I'm aware takes no donations what so ever.
.....
Beyond this, hero users really owe a lot to feeyo for the couple of months before official 2.1 got released as he was the only dev to get 2.1 working properly with long lasting battery life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1... Switch to another ROM, or stick with what you have, they are your two options.
2... No, other devs do not have a "donators only beta testing section", and regardless if they did or not, I think you need to go and re-read all the info the mods have given about the GPL issue before adding your 2 pence worth.
3... I owe feeyo nothing. He may have produced ROMS, but contribute to the community he did not.
Sent from my HTC Hero using XDA App

plonkersaurus said:
I'm actually a professional software developer.
The Hero community here, as it is, I would never contribute to, because I wouldn't want my work included into someone elses rom that they then take donations for (I would never ask for donations for my work) especially since there seems to be no pioneering development going on by themselves.
So I see feeyo as someone like me, but with a drive to get things working on the hero.
In my eyes he is a bit like a vigilante or I guess like Batman. What Batman does is illegal too you know.
Sometimes there is such thing as the lesser of two evils and the greater good.
He harmed no one doing what he did.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hahaha what. Being a developer doesn't mean you "get" the point of the GPL. Plenty of developers over at Microsoft don't "get" it. That doesn't make it any less valid.
In fact your entire post just screams "I do not understand open source development, what on Earth is wrong with people doing stuff themselves and hoarding it".
The "pioneering development" as you put it doesn't happen by individuals because it happens in groups. You know, lots of minds working towards a common goal.
Jesus on a bike.
EDIT: woah..
plonkersaurus said:
Beyond this, hero users really owe a lot to feeyo for the couple of months before official 2.1 got released as he was the only dev to get 2.1 working properly with long lasting battery life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I missed this when I first read the OP. Hahaha no he wasn't. Battery life has to be one of the most done to death topics on these forums and do you know what? Your battery life is solely dependent on you the phone user, providing of course the developer or the cooker hasn't done something utterly retarded to the ROM that causes battery to run down.
Until Froyo was released, Cronos wasn't even a compiled ROM it was a precompiled Sense ROM and as such subject to all the whims of the HTC base that the rest of us were.
Oh and I don't owe him anything. Never used his ROM, never benefited from what he apparently gave back to the community (nothing). He owed me and whomever else asked him for it, source code, which happened to be the one thing he never once provided while being happy to make use of source code provided by others.

Hacre said:
Hahaha what. Being a develloper doesn't mean you "get" the point of the GPL. Plenty of developers over at Microsoft don't "get" it. That doesn't make it any less valid.
In fact your entire post just screams "I do not understand open source development, what on Earth is wrong with people doing stuff themselves and hoarding it".
The "pioneering development" as you put it doesn't happen by individuals because it happens in groups. You know, lots of minds working towards a common goal.
Jesus on a bike.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't mention GPL anywhere in my post.
I mentioned that I wouldn't help this community due to the fact people would be accepting donations for what would be in part my work which I think is immoral.
That is what my post was about.
Plus I think you will find Linus wrote Linux by himself so individuals are capable of greatness.

plonkersaurus said:
Plus I think you will find Linus wrote Linux by himself so individuals are capable of greatness.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Re check your history. Linus did not write Linux by himself. He wrote the first kernel by himself. Linux wasn't truly born until he released it along with the source code and people started fixing it, writing drivers for it and writing coreutils/toolchains around it. It didn't approach anything like popular until it got x86 support and the kernel reached a level of maturity in the 2.0.x releases. Collaborative development/debugging. It's an amazing thing. Stunted quickly by the "I will not share" attitude that you're defending and supporting.
I am genuinely curious as to how you can guarantee that people will receive donations for your work. Or why you'd even care. My kernel source tree is used by others, I don't lose a wink of sleep over whether they get donations for their finished ROM or not, it doesn't matter.
Donations are just that, donations. They are not a fee. They are not someone taking someone else's work and then charging for it. They're something that an individual feels that they want to give to someone out of the kindness of their hearts as a thank you as well as the fact that donations are quite a rarity.
I got my first donation today. It'll buy me a few beers. It won't make me rich. I got it for my work on the kernel and my work on the Villain 2.2 ROMs. Have a guess how many people at Villain are now pissy that I got a donation and not the project itself. None. Have a guess how many GNU developers are now hand wringing themselves with pure fret because some guy got bought a beer for some work he did on their code. None.
You didn't have to mention the GPL in your post. The GPL is why these ridiculous threads keep springing up, it was the GPL and the failure to adhere to it, that got Feeyo canned.
People with your attitude toward community development have no place on these forums. Kindly take the door that has a Feeyo shaped hole in it.

plonkersaurus said:
I'm actually a professional software developer.
The Hero community here, as it is, I would never contribute to, because I wouldn't want my work included into someone elses rom that they then take donations for (I would never ask for donations for my work) especially since there seems to be no pioneering development going on by themselves.
So I see feeyo as someone like me, but with a drive to get things working on the hero.
In my eyes he is a bit like a vigilante or I guess like Batman. What Batman does is illegal too you know.
Sometimes there is such thing as the lesser of two evils and the greater good.
He harmed no one doing what he did.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you don't want to share then Android is not for you.
And why the big deal about asking for donations. Its not free to run a site. And a donation is hardly mandatory, the clue is in the name, no-one was bent over and forced to do anything they never wanted to.
I have used Villain on and off since Feb and haven't donated a penny.
.... and Batman? Really? Yes he makes the decisions that no one else can, for the greater good, the bigger picture... he doesn't play hero just to boost his own ego.
Sent from my HTC Hero using XDA App

Hacre said:
EDIT: woah..
I missed this when I first read the OP. Hahaha no he wasn't. Battery life has to be one of the most done to death topics on these forums and do you know what? Your battery life is solely dependent on you the phone user, providing of course the developer or the cooker hasn't done something utterly retarded to the ROM that causes battery to run down.
Until Froyo was released, Cronos wasn't even a compiled ROM it was a precompiled Sense ROM and as such subject to all the whims of the HTC base that the rest of us were.
Oh and I don't owe him anything. Never used his ROM, never benefited from what he apparently gave back to the community (nothing). He owed me and whomever else asked him for it, source code, which happened to be the one thing he never once provided while being happy to make use of source code provided by others.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, so you never used his rom. I did and it was leagues ahead of anything else at the time. It made our phones really usable with 2.1. I remember when it was first released it was in the top 5 threads for a week on the front page of xda so I'm sure I wasn't the only one to experience this.
Also, sometimes it's the way you ask for something. I never once saw you ask for the source code with a view to work with him on it, only to get access to it. I know you are going to spout GPL rules now but I would rather not provide them knowing they will be taken over and most likely I would not be included in development in a "team" way, and rather take the punishment when it came of being banned.

plonkersaurus said:
Also, sometimes it's the way you ask for something. I never once saw you ask for the source code with a view to work with him on it, only to get access to it. I know you are going to spout GPL rules now but I would rather not provide them knowing they will be taken over and most likely I would not be included in development in a "team" way, and rather take the punishment when it came of being banned.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My first four or five requests were incredibly polite. There were a plethora of polite request the first time he pulled this stunt too. My reason for asking was irrelevant. However my reason for asking for those particular sources, were twofold:
1: I didn't believe it.
2: If it was true then the community should damn well get access to it so we as a group can get it up to full working order so that EVERY ROM DEVELOPER can make use of it.
Taken over? What? I now don't believe that you're a developer, at least nothing outside pointing and clicking in a GUI based programming tool in some office somewhere, because you clearly have no idea of what collaborative development is. You cannot shut anyone, ANYONE, out of a GPL project, that's the whole frigging point. See my signature? Source code. Source code anyone can take and modify. Source code people are welcome to change, fix, port, patch and if they want to, submit a pull request so I can merge those fixes in.
Click the link. Follow the fork tree. Observe the magic as my changes move upstream to the original cyanogenmod + Hero kernel. Observe further magic as changes they make merge their way down into my kernel. Yeah I/we are really all about shutting people out.
Stop trolling.

plonkersaurus said:
Ok, so you never used his rom. I did and it was leagues ahead of anything else at the time. It made our phones really usable with 2.1. I remember when it was first released it was in the top 5 threads for a week on the front page of xda so I'm sure I wasn't the only one to experience this.
Also, sometimes it's the way you ask for something. I never once saw you ask for the source code with a view to work with him on it, only to get access to it. I know you are going to spout GPL rules now but I would rather not provide them knowing they will be taken over and most likely I would not be included in development in a "team" way, and rather take the punishment when it came of being banned.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You might be right, maybe they wouldn't have let him be in the team, maybe they would have. Who cares, they would have had to credit it to him either way, just as they credit help from other developers now.
The main point is that he wasn't willing to help push things forward. He wanted all the spotlight for himself.
Sent from my HTC Hero using XDA App

Hacre said:
Re check your history. Linus did not write Linux by himself. He wrote the first kernel by himself. Linux wasn't truly born until he released it along with the source code and people started fixing it, writing drivers for it and writing coreutils/toolchains around it. It didn't approach anything like popular until it got x86 support and the kernel reached a level of maturity in the 2.0.x releases. Collaborative development/debugging. It's an amazing thing. Stunted quickly by the "I will not share" attitude that you're defending and supporting.
I am genuinely curious as to how you can guarantee that people will receive donations for your work. Or why you'd even care. My kernel source tree is used by others, I don't lose a wink of sleep over whether they get donations for their finished ROM or not, it doesn't matter.
Donations are just that, donations. They are not a fee. They are not someone taking someone else's work and then charging for it. They're something that an individual feels that they want to give to someone out of the kindness of their hearts as a thank you as well as the fact that donations are quite a rarity.
I got my first donation today. It'll buy me a few beers. It won't make me rich. I got it for my work on the kernel and my work on the Villain 2.2 ROMs. Have a guess how many people at Villain are now pissy that I got a donation and not the project itself. None. Have a guess how many GNU developers are now hand wringing themselves with pure fret because some guy got bought a beer for some work he did on their code. None.
You didn't have to mention the GPL in your post. The GPL is why these ridiculous threads keep springing up, it was the GPL and the failure to adhere to it, that got Feeyo canned.
People with your attitude toward community development have no place on these forums. Kindly take the door that has a Feeyo shaped hole in it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the problem here is your attitude, you seem to think you own the place. I am free to stay here as I wish as far as I know. I also don't believe you are reading my posts correctly as you seem to think I am against community programming which is further from the truth.
I never said I wouldn't share. I wouldn't share with you. I think community programming is great all things being equal. It seems to me that the hero community here is terrible right now and thus I wouldn't help it.
Getting people banned definitely isn't making you friends either. I honestly never saw you wanting to work with feeyo only to get at his work.
I would have no problem helping out trying to get android to work on the Xperia X1 and supplying my source code as that is a true example of people working together.

Hacre said:
My first four or five requests were incredibly polite. There were a plethora of polite request the first time he pulled this stunt too. My reason for asking was irrelevant. However my reason for asking for those particular sources, were twofold:
1: I didn't believe it.
2: If it was true then the community should damn well get access to it so we as a group can get it up to full working order so that EVERY ROM DEVELOPER can make use of it.
Taken over? What? I now don't believe that you're a developer, at least nothing outside pointing and clicking in a GUI based programming tool in some office somewhere, because you clearly have no idea of what collaborative development is. You cannot shut anyone, ANYONE, out of a GPL project, that's the whole frigging point. See my signature? Source code. Source code anyone can take and modify. Source code people are welcome to change, fix, port, patch and if they want to, submit a pull request so I can merge those fixes in.
Click the link. Follow the fork tree. Observe the magic as my changes move upstream to the original cyanogenmod + Hero kernel. Observe further magic as changes they make merge their way down into my kernel. Yeah I/we are really all about shutting people out.
Stop trolling.
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Click to collapse
That's not what I mean by shutting people out. I'm not trolling but replying to your false accusations.
You are also trying to personally discredit me by calling me a point and click GUI programmer which is below the belt. You know nothing about me.
What I mean is, working together as these roms are virtually the same project is about communicating. Something that would not have happened and does in a real collaborative effort.
I'm sick of this thread and having to defend myself because you fail to understand what working together really means. And no it's not just following rules. It's obvious you aren't a professional programmer. People skills and management are just as important as being able to program and that is the point I am trying to get at.

I think you've formed your opinion and regardless of how many times Hacre blows your point out of the water, your not going to be swayed are you. He shouldn't even have to explain himself to you, every point had been covered in the other fan threads already.
Sent from my HTC Hero using XDA App

Dev seems really slow on Ubuntu/Kbuntu

I would have thought somebody would have edited the files to boot from MAGLDR by now

feel free to do it yourself

brashmadcap said:
feel free to do it yourself
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
haha smartass, how long did it take you to come up with that one?
I wasn't been an arse or complaining, I was starting a discussion as its unusual for develpment to take this long on a popular platform. I was simply commenting on my surprise that a dev hasnt had a go yet or if they have its taken quite a while so maybe its harder then porting a SD build to magldr.
There was no need for the cliché of "do it yourself then" when somebody makes a remark about dev. 99% of people on this site are not devs, It may have started out as a dev majority site but it isnt anymore. If you didn't want to discuss the topic , sod off!

Wow, way to be defensive.
People on this site get touchy when you comment about developers. Here's why:
1. Developers are less likely to release their stuff if people are pushing them for releases, ETAs, etc.
2. Developers do this for free, for the most part. Sure, they can ask for donations, but that's only after development is completed, and I doubt it's much money for the average dev. So since we're basically being gifted these developments, people don't like to see comments against them.
I understand where you're coming from, but a flame war isn't really warranted. Just my $0.02

Danation said:
Wow, way to be defensive.
People on this site get touchy when you comment about developers. Here's why:
1. Developers are less likely to release their stuff if people are pushing them for releases, ETAs, etc.
2. Developers do this for free, for the most part. Sure, they can ask for donations, but that's only after development is completed, and I doubt it's much money for the average dev. So since we're basically being gifted these developments, people don't like to see comments against them.
I understand where you're coming from, but a flame war isn't really warranted. Just my $0.02
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. I didn't push anybody and didn't ask for an ETA.
2. I didnt make ANY comment against ANY dev, I was simply commenting on my suprise that nobody dev/user etc has managed or tried to edit the files to boot from magldr yet.
I would understand the points given here If I had wrote something like...
"come on devs pull you finger out.." or "What is taking them so long"
etc as that would imply that I had a impression that they owed us it or its their job, I DONT HAVE THAT IMPRESSION" I was simply commenting on my surprise that nobody has managed or tried to do it yet.

So... do you think all the dev work lately is magldr or 0.4 awesomeness based?

straby187 said:
So... do you think all the dev work lately is magldr or 0.4 awesomeness based?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
latest work as far as i know is a nand based install.
magldr is for cottula to update, it's on his todo list.
plopper

Ubuntu on NAND and android on SD!!!!!!

how they gonna fit 3GB linux on 500MB internal memory!! by the way! i like to edit this files but have no idea to do so! is there any page or somthing that i can begin with?

Ubuntu is setup different than android... it's not an easy fix like it is with sd android builds to get it working with magldr.

I too would really enjoy running it off NAND.
I'm no genius, especially in this aspect..But I would figure we'd at least be able to work in some nifty way to start the boot process in NAND and load up everything else with the SD card.
Cuz' only way I've seen people do it so far is through Windows Mobile, which I do not believe I will ever go back to. XD
If I did have the knowledge to do so, I'd jump at some dev work on making such things possible.
Alas, I do not.
So I shall await word patiently.

there are smaller linux builds that could fit on the NAND, although you wouldn't really have room for swap space unless that gets moved to the sd card.
but basically im just posting to say if i knew how to open up the magldr and write/re-write the files i'd do it. just give me some programs and i'll start messing around and see what i can do
<---- little programming experience, ready to jump in the water with the sharks lol

youngdaddytc said:
there are smaller linux builds that could fit on the NAND, although you wouldn't really have room for swap space unless that gets moved to the sd card.
but basically im just posting to say if i knew how to open up the magldr and write/re-write the files i'd do it. just give me some programs and i'll start messing around and see what i can do
<---- little programming experience, ready to jump in the water with the sharks lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
MAGLDR is closed source.

TheATHEiST said:
MAGLDR is closed source.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
oh, that's too bad. i see why it is of course, so peeps dont play around and brick their phones accidentally. but kind of unfortunate if you want to advance it quickly.

I could be wrong but I think its the kernel that makes it not work woth magldr and clk. I got ubuntu v0.3 to boot with clk but reboots after loading up..... like i said i think its kernel related.... but im not a dev so i may be wrong....and wat was mentioned above about booting from nand is basically what i did with clk bootloader....i just flashed the zimage and initrd from ubuntu 0.3 to the boot partition.... then when turned on it loaded it off sd immediatelt....but just restarts right away like it does with magldr.....
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA Premium App

Ubuntu是比Android设置不同... ...它不是一个容易解决，就像是与SD Android的基础得到它的工作与magldr。

Come learn from thanks! ! !

So maybe one day there will be away to dual boot ubuntu and android on the hd2?
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using Tapatalk

Sick of zip developers (rant)

Typical scenario is;
v 0.1 based on this and that.
v 0.2 changed launcher, added ringtones
v 0.3 new wallpapers, added ram script
v 0.4 added new market, added google+
Excuse me!?! This is not development. This is stealing!
I think these people should just wank instead of copy/pasting. Would be more beneficial for both public and themselves.
Rant over.
Thank you.

calyxim said:
Typical scenario is;
v 0.1 based on this and that.
v 0.2 changed launcher, added ringtones
v 0.3 new wallpapers, added ram script
v 0.4 added new market, added google+
Excuse me!?! This is not development. This is stealing!
I think these people should just wank instead of copy/pasting. Would be more beneficial for both public and themselves.
Rant over.
Thank you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, but if credit is given to original devs you can't really call it "stealing" cause Android is OSP after all...I'm no dev myself but it does seem many ROMs available are CM tweaks achievable with a few market downloads or simply AOSP with extra's...however sometimes certain ROMs begin as "Zip developments" and get later support with real devs and change fundamental features (kernels, code-base etc.) so it's not all bad...

Totally agree..........
But it's not the actual non-development of new roms that is getting on my nerves the most, its the constant *****ing and arguing through lack of understanding different languages etc etc..........
All i have to say is read the threads carefully as i've noticed some people who don't speak english very well get the hump on as they don't understand clearly what people are saying.
I know i've had my rants in some of these threads before and i don't blame anyone else for doing it too. I've managed to restrain myself the last few weeks as our arguments are falling on deaf ears so whats the point, i'll just ignore the idiots making fools out of themselves by bringing us stuff we've already had for a long time and stick to what i know best.

What you've said is true Scratch...even if the ROM cookers do bring something new often nobody knows what that new stuff is because of the poor English. I'm not trying to insult them but I would recommend, especially with a specialized thing such as compiling/ making a ROM, the English needs to be clear and concise so everyone knows what is being released, what changes have been made and what's been modified. More often than not, as you say Scratch, people get upset because of a misunderstanding. Maybe those struggling with the language can consult friends/devs and ask exactly how to express something they've done in their ROM so everybody is clear on what's happening.

Scratch0805 said:
...I've managed to restrain myself the last few weeks...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, I have got quite a lot to say over this entire fiasco over the Android 4.0 "ports" and "source builds" that is currently playing out in the dev zone like a long dragging soap opera, but, its just not worth it, so, just let them argue over themselves who is first and who is the true dev and what not. Besides, it's not a good feeling when these Zip Devs accuse you of various stuffs when you speak out against them. It's extremely childish and irritating to read those posts, but I guess it can't be helped. Zip developers are not a localized phenomenon, they are everywhere, and since Android and ROMs like Cyanogenmod are Open Source, we have nothing to say, and have to live with it.
There's another new phenomenon which is playing out and can be seen on pretty much every ROM. Someone gets a ROM to boot / work at a basic level, create a thread and build up major hype and hoopla on it, and EVERYONE of these "devs" proclaim "I need help to do this and do that./..... bla bla bla". Zip dev is not such a big issue per se, but, the level of intellect is terribly low among the "devs". I believe most of them are what? 12-13 year olds, and, they act their age perfectly, unlike someone like Jacob.
/End Rant

Case in point, after Arco has announced his intentions and the fact he already has a working port in progress:
I was first, it was my idea, I continue and basta.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Enough said.

Ahah, doing small things for the buzz (pun intended), acquiring a fame in trolland

Lol, I've made myself clear on this too.
" the ability to read is good,
the ability to understand what you've read is great "

http://www.androidpolice.com/2011/1...om-developers-i-think-we-need-to-have-a-talk/

3xeno said:
dragging soap opera.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't you mean aosp opera? Hehe...okay, I'll stop with the bad jokes.
And I fully agree with the topic. Anyone can open up any rom .zip paste in some apps, reflash and repackage it as your own.

Agree with this. Sadly I'm one of the offenders, that will have a moan at people developing zip-roms. I accept that this isnt the greatest way to deal with people on forums like theese. But it seems the only good way to get my point across to people that aren't that great at english.
Although, I must add one thing. I've seen roms get tossed around the development forums like mad. It seems to go like this in the dev. forums.
People create a booting rom. Or compile a new one.
People add a few fixes, someone creates a spin off.
Original dev discontinues rom, other 'developers' ask to continue it, even when they have projects in hand.
Someone picks up the pieces months later. After even the re-contiuned rom is given up with.
People spin roms off from there.

All i can say is dear god. I have been reading all that threads last few days and i was frapped how people are shalow in glorifying them selves and their so called development skills. I didnt want to coment anything cauze i have run into such argument once before with someone who was constantly refusing to understand what i am saying and i dont want to do it again, so i leave my thoughts here.
So people should get on the ground for change and start doing something usefull instead of make dozen threads, first when you dig something, than another one when you are asking if it can be done and finaly one when you "do" something. What they have done is nothing. They are just thanks chasers. In last few days there were more new roms than it was for whole Wildfire lifetime.
I remember tje days when there was just three or four roms and they worked, you hear me, they worked. So stop posting such s**t unles u did something that is realy worth it.
Sent from my HTC Wildfire using xda premium

Yes you are right, zip development is horrible. Lately there has been a major rise in "new" roms that have been hitting the development thread. I swear I have seen at least 5 to 10 roms all based on CM7 or oxygen. And what's different? It's "fast and stable" "Is themed to look like ICS" "Has a script that I actually don't know what it does but it must do something good". And its "my" rom because I grabbed a rom.zip from a device that runs oxygen smoothly and added the boot.img and the build prop right from the CM7 rom.zip and then cooked it and I posted it under MY account so its MY rom. There is a problem though, my genius copy/paste skills on my computer that took forever to build up are limited to actually being able to fix problems with things like Bluetooth and GPS, etc. So what do I do then? Hell I request "help" to fix the problems and once a genius like acro or another real dev comes in and fixes it for me, I take the fix and say it was all MY work. AOSP stands for ANDROID OPEN SOURCE PROJECT. The source is open to anyone that can use linux terminal (that's half the problem). The other problem is that no one could be bothered taking the time to actually learn a skill. They want to do something now, and now only. They won't spend hours and days learning how to program in java or C because it takes "too long" and just wants to begin this so called "deving" now. This is a rant about zip development, but wait you say, I do .zip development though? Yes I do, but what I am talking about is .zip development that is based on a .zip that is actually OPEN SOURCE. If something is OPEN SOURCE there is no point in taking a compiled .zip and "porting it" to our device. You do this because its easy for you to hit download and copy and paste, but you don't "have the time" to setup a download of the source and compile it to a rom. Zip development that is for CLOSED SOURCE on the other hand is way different. HTC, MIUI, etc. are all roms that have no open source code so all the work has to be done based on a .zip. Since the code is not available this is the only option. This in my opinion is the only kind of good .zip development since there is no source to build from. I would love to download the source and mess around with the ICS source and try to compile something but my computer is got really bad specs and my internet is so slow. I will just leave that kind of work to acro and the real devs

I agree with this. Looking through the more recent Wildfire ROMS, I can see a pattern for most. So, I have started to come up with a fight back, for individuality and mostly, for a better mobile experience. It would mean a lot if you could help me out with THIS.
Sorry to ask in this thread, but I thought it might be a good idea

Before I get accused of zipfile developing, I only compiled an edited kernel for the ROM to allow touchscreen to work a little.
I am not a "zipfile" developer and I am not going to be, my interest is in kernels.
I happened to come to xda at the wrong time, first thing kaassaus did was ask me to follow a tutorial to get touchscreen working (which took all of 20 seconds).
I think posting an ICS zip is okay FOR NOW because there is no OPEN source for the wildfire for it, and Arco is NOT breaking the GPL because he hasn't redistributed it yet.
Sent from my HTC Wildfire

We are not accusing anyone. My point is dev section is not a learning section. Those who want to learn development can pop into chefs section instead of releasing a rom with 2 zillion bugs.
There is a reason for this forum is not called xda-tweakers. Because our devs are devs. They are not steve jobs like tweakers.
2nd rant over. Class dismissed

Okay, Zip development is not so bad, actualy is needed in some points. For flashing kernels or some other things. But look at some of that AOSP-fast and stable roms. What do they bring us? Nothing. It is just repacked CM nightly or stable. To "develop" such rom you need WinZip and in best case Android SDK if they decide to decompile and recompile few apps instead of treating them with winzip too to change few icons and voila, NEW ROM. Better yet someome will take any theme and implement it into framework.And he will be so proud because his rom has diferent look. What else we can still expect is ES file explorer instead of OI, Miui galery, themed keyborad, different font and unforgetable scripts which do god knows what. They are the main part. Is that a rom? No it isn't my dear friends. Its a disrespect to any real developer here. All that we already have. We have themes, we have scripts we have everything that flashable and we dont need another yet ****y rom to tell us what is fast and stable.
Sent from my HTC Wildfire using xda premium

I don't find anything wrong in updating an already present ROM's with new applications update ,... even though i must say there is a trend in past few weeks that lot of ROM's in buzz section were merely identical and there was no development in them

I was browsing the old threads of the Dev Zone, and came on this:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=884659
Amazing, right? It's deja vu all over again.. (PS - Don't bump that please. lol)

I am a noob, and I know I will never be as experienced as other developers.
That is why I do not develop ROMs, and develop things I am good at.

Tester

Just putting it out there that I would love to be a tester for the Galaxy SII, I have the original one, I have flash and went through 90% of every ROM up for it in both sections the original section and regular section, I just love flashing and going through Roms and would love to just help out someone with there Rom and do whatever it is they need me to do as far as testing, please hit me back. I hope I posted this is the right place if not, I will watch the Noob video 20 times in a row for punishment.

ah ok...... that's an idea

Original SGS II ? No kidding! :|

At first, I thought of this as just a pointless thread - but you got me thinking... What if we were to create a thread where people can nominate themselves as alpha/beta/etc. testers for ROM/Kernel developers? The difference lying in that to be eligible for a position, you'd have to prove that you have basic knowledge of how to recover from, for example, a bootloop, or a device that won't even boot, or constant FCs, etc. etc., along with again, pretty basic ADB knowledge, how to create and restore a NANDroid backup, and things like that. It'd come with the usual disclaimer stating that all responsibilities lie with the user, not the developer, and while the developer may be willing to provide support for bugs, etc., they are not liable for any damage resulting either directly or indirectly from the use of their software.
This would solve two things - it would satisfy those who just can't stand to wait for the release of something, who like to always live on the bleeding edge of development, and it would provide the developers a huge testing platform.
In review, though, this provides to main issues: 1) people would only be able to test one thing at a time, e.g. you're not going to be allowed to test a beta ROM with an alpha kernel, for example - it creates too many variables, and makes it harder for the developers to isolate and fix problems - but this shouldn't be an issue for people, just pick what you want and stick with it, and 2) people who leak the otherwise tester-restricted software for the masses - but this can be solved easily: maintain a list of official testers. Anyone who comes begging for support because they went ahead and flashed some leaked ROM/kernel/whatever, and ended up without a working device without being on the list, can be denied support for breaking the rules. Moreover, they, along with the leaker, could potentially face site-imposed bans?
I'll cut the rambling here, but I think it's a good idea?

As a ROM developer, its a great idea.
Sent from HydrOG3N MOD S2.
Technology Evolves, Android Evolves.
HydrOG3N is THE Revolution.

Thinking about it, not bad idea. But to back sceamworks up a bit, there should be a number of post limit, Some form of history for the dev`s to see who is a Noob (sorry Noobs) and who is not...

I'm in
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App

I like the idea and I too would be glad to help people testing there ROMs.
It also seems nice to have a thread where people (like me or the OP) can set them self available for testing.

Most real developers pick their team from watching the threads and see how is willing to put the time in and know how to properly test as well as offer ideas on fixes. But not a bad idea I guess for new rom developers

lodger said:
Thinking about it, not bad idea. But to back sceamworks up a bit, there should be a number of post limit, Some form of history for the dev`s to see who is a Noob (sorry Noobs) and who is not...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree completely, I'd say 50-100 would be a fair starting point? I might PM some devs sometime soon with a proper proposal, and if I get a positive response from a majority of them, I might draft something, and get some official names on-board.
zelendel said:
Most real developers pick their team from watching the threads and see how is willing to put the time in and know how to properly test as well as offer ideas on fixes. But not a bad idea I guess for new rom developers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I considered this, and I think if anything brings the idea down, it'll be that - it's a hard sell to make, and I'd love to say that there's no harm in trying, but really, there is, so I guess execution is everything?

Good idea, im in....