Tester - Galaxy S II General

Tester - Galaxy S II General

Just putting it out there that I would love to be a tester for the Galaxy SII, I have the original one, I have flash and went through 90% of every ROM up for it in both sections the original section and regular section, I just love flashing and going through Roms and would love to just help out someone with there Rom and do whatever it is they need me to do as far as testing, please hit me back. I hope I posted this is the right place if not, I will watch the Noob video 20 times in a row for punishment.

ah ok...... that's an idea

Original SGS II ? No kidding! :|

At first, I thought of this as just a pointless thread - but you got me thinking... What if we were to create a thread where people can nominate themselves as alpha/beta/etc. testers for ROM/Kernel developers? The difference lying in that to be eligible for a position, you'd have to prove that you have basic knowledge of how to recover from, for example, a bootloop, or a device that won't even boot, or constant FCs, etc. etc., along with again, pretty basic ADB knowledge, how to create and restore a NANDroid backup, and things like that. It'd come with the usual disclaimer stating that all responsibilities lie with the user, not the developer, and while the developer may be willing to provide support for bugs, etc., they are not liable for any damage resulting either directly or indirectly from the use of their software.
This would solve two things - it would satisfy those who just can't stand to wait for the release of something, who like to always live on the bleeding edge of development, and it would provide the developers a huge testing platform.
In review, though, this provides to main issues: 1) people would only be able to test one thing at a time, e.g. you're not going to be allowed to test a beta ROM with an alpha kernel, for example - it creates too many variables, and makes it harder for the developers to isolate and fix problems - but this shouldn't be an issue for people, just pick what you want and stick with it, and 2) people who leak the otherwise tester-restricted software for the masses - but this can be solved easily: maintain a list of official testers. Anyone who comes begging for support because they went ahead and flashed some leaked ROM/kernel/whatever, and ended up without a working device without being on the list, can be denied support for breaking the rules. Moreover, they, along with the leaker, could potentially face site-imposed bans?
I'll cut the rambling here, but I think it's a good idea?

As a ROM developer, its a great idea.
Sent from HydrOG3N MOD S2.
Technology Evolves, Android Evolves.
HydrOG3N is THE Revolution.

Thinking about it, not bad idea. But to back sceamworks up a bit, there should be a number of post limit, Some form of history for the dev`s to see who is a Noob (sorry Noobs) and who is not...

I'm in
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App

I like the idea and I too would be glad to help people testing there ROMs.
It also seems nice to have a thread where people (like me or the OP) can set them self available for testing.

Most real developers pick their team from watching the threads and see how is willing to put the time in and know how to properly test as well as offer ideas on fixes. But not a bad idea I guess for new rom developers

lodger said:
Thinking about it, not bad idea. But to back sceamworks up a bit, there should be a number of post limit, Some form of history for the dev`s to see who is a Noob (sorry Noobs) and who is not...
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I agree completely, I'd say 50-100 would be a fair starting point? I might PM some devs sometime soon with a proper proposal, and if I get a positive response from a majority of them, I might draft something, and get some official names on-board.
zelendel said:
Most real developers pick their team from watching the threads and see how is willing to put the time in and know how to properly test as well as offer ideas on fixes. But not a bad idea I guess for new rom developers
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I considered this, and I think if anything brings the idea down, it'll be that - it's a hard sell to make, and I'd love to say that there's no harm in trying, but really, there is, so I guess execution is everything?

Good idea, im in....

Related

Devs, Please don't hide your Known Issues

I really don't want this to come across wrong, but I just have to say it.
Developers, I appreciate all your hard work. I understand this is all beta/test/etc. I understand it is free of cost, even to those who did donate to one dev or another. You do it because you want to, not because you have to.
But please, for the love of all that's good - keep an updated list of Known Issues!
It sucks having to read 50 pages of posts to try to figure out if a particular release is reliable or not, to find out if there's a key feature broken or buggy. What makes it worse is you can't tell when reading these threads which users are on which release, because many still post issues after they've been resolved. Others post things that aren't really "issues" but user error.
You know what your issues are, you read the threads and you fix the issues. But trying to find a decent rom to flash is very, very difficult when your OP says "No known problems" and the thread that follows show that to be very untrue. It generates a lot of extra posts with people posting things you already know about, and it generates a lot of bad will when someone flashes something only to find that there are a number of game breaking issues.
All it takes is to update a post, say #2, in your thread, with KNOWN ISSUES. Once you confirm a bug, whether you intend to fix it on your next release or not, add it to that thread. It helps you, as a dev keep track of the bug, and it helps potential downloaders know what bugs have been confirmed and make an educated decision as to whether they want to install your release.
Hiding known issues is something I don't think anyone does intentionally, but it feels that way sometimes. It feels like devs are in a popularity contest, and any admission of flaws in their particular ROM is a weakness. Well, to tell the truth, I and many others are sick of installing something that was CLAIMED to be working perfectly, only to have glaring problems that have been there for many versions.
For a civil and productive development community. Please. Be honest with your known issues. It will go a long way in building trust with the people who you're providing ROMs to, and will mean fewer posts for YOU to wade through of users reporting known issues, without having read 500 posts first.

I have a hard time believing that most devs actively hide them. Most of the time it's probably just a bit of laziness. But, yes, it would be helpful when comparing roms if the descriptions had a well-maintained list of active bugs.

Since the developers here are NOT getting paid (NO your $20 donation is not sh*t for the time it takes to make one of these roms), yes WE will have to bear the brunt of testing these roms out and letting them know what bugs if any are in them
The other issue is the people flashing these roms, coming from Eugene's to Whiskey to the ASOP roms may generate some ghosts in the software that the developers cannot duplicate themselves. I know that when I went with the TW 2.2 roms I had plenty of issues, more issues than I have had even when I was stock. Odining back to stock and reflashing the 4.2 TW fixed ALL my problems. Dont know what caused it but since I have flashed a couple of roms prior to that (no problems), I will assume there were some ghosts in my system. This is an example that unless a TW team member is holding MY phone and working on it, they may not be able to duplicate

They don't care to list them. It's beneath some of them.

Maybe AirBus should list "midair exploding engines" as a known issue too...
kponti said:
Since the developers here are NOT getting paid (NO your $20 donation is not sh*t for the time it takes to make one of these roms), yes WE will have to bear the brunt of testing these roms out and letting them know what bugs if any are in them
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+1. Hell, at work I run a $100,000.00+ software suite and even that company won't do what the OP suggests!

If you have a problem with them stop using their roms go back to stock and see how much better theirs is even with a few bugs, not one of you has any right to complain. They do damn good work for free with some donations that do not come close to what they should be paid for it but they do not whine at all.

The problem I find is the "spammy" and useless comments average and pretentious users make which is both hard for the developer and the end user to read the threads. A dev releases a ROM and there is a guaranteed "Oh I can't wait to flash this" comment that will pop up. And there are some issues that are minor and are sometimes not related to the release that are posted and some pretentious loser who extends his ego by trying to make simple matters complicated. This forum didn't much of this problem before and I could quickly flash ROMs easily since I could clearly grasp the status on the ROM project.

I wish they would start a new thread with new releases. It's a pain to try to read through a 500 page thread, and you comments about this or that, and you have no idea which version the person is talking about. I gave up on custom roms and just using the leaked tmo 2.2, thanks for that Eugene

kponti said:
Since the developers here are NOT getting paid (NO your $20 donation is not sh*t for the time it takes to make one of these roms), yes WE will have to bear the brunt of testing these roms out and letting them know what bugs if any are in them
The other issue is the people flashing these roms, coming from Eugene's to Whiskey to the ASOP roms may generate some ghosts in the software that the developers cannot duplicate themselves. I know that when I went with the TW 2.2 roms I had plenty of issues, more issues than I have had even when I was stock. Odining back to stock and reflashing the 4.2 TW fixed ALL my problems. Dont know what caused it but since I have flashed a couple of roms prior to that (no problems), I will assume there were some ghosts in my system. This is an example that unless a TW team member is holding MY phone and working on it, they may not be able to duplicate
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A $20 donation is not worth the risk of bricking a $550 phone just because they got "lazy" and didn't notify donators/downloaders of [a] potentially show-stopping issue.

Posted a new Thread in Dev section for the purpose of reporting issues. So if you have an issue please shoot it to me and I will post it in that thread.
Update: Here is the link for the WIKI page.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/wiki/index.php?title=Samsung_Galaxy_S_SGH-T959#ROMs

swehes said:
Posted a new Thread in Dev section for the purpose of reporting issues. So if you have an issue please shoot it to me and I will post it in that thread.
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You are in a heap of trouble, a lot of people don't read, and you are gonna get 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 repeats of the same issue.
"OMG! MY SD CAR DONES"T MOUNT< HELP ME!11!!111"

chui101 said:
I have a hard time believing that most devs actively hide them. Most of the time it's probably just a bit of laziness. But, yes, it would be helpful when comparing roms if the descriptions had a well-maintained list of active bugs.
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Click to collapse
The issue here is really that a forum is not the ideal place to manage software releases. A list of bugs emerges from community testing, but there's nowhere to "post" that list of issues, or attach it to a specific release. Since there's no way for the community to add such documentation, it falls on the ROM builder, who probably has other priorities.
This kind of project could be well served by using a real software project management software solution, such as say google code, which has an issue tracker and other useful features. But XDA does already give us a better tool than the forum - the XDA wiki!
I wish people would use the XDA wiki more extensively. This would be a good place to keep updated documentation such as this, without requiring the OP to keep a forum post updated with the latest findings. All the OP needs to do is link to the wiki page, and other people can help maintain it.

OK. Looking into Google Code.
(Update) So looking into the Google Code. What Licensing agreement are the ROMs under? Is it GPL v2 or v3 or another license?

swehes said:
OK. Looking into Google Code.
(Update) So looking into the Google Code. What Licensing agreement are the ROMs under? Is it GPL v2 or v3 or another license?
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Depends on the project. The Linux kernel is GPLv2, so any kernels fall under that license. AOSP as a whole uses both GPL and apache code.
The issue with ROMs is that unless they're AOSP derived (like cyanogenmod) they often include binaries for which the license situation is murky at best, so google code isn't really an ideal fit for a "ROM" that's only ever released as a binary.
Really I was throwing google code out there as a well known example, there are tons of other ways to track issues. There are dedicated issue tracking systems such as trac, bugzilla, etc, but they require hosting. Most of the freely available hosted services require that you're running an open source project, which isn't necessarily true for the ROMs here.
IMO a serious project could very well benefit from such tools, but just using an XDA wiki page which community members can freely update is a great first step.

So looked into the Wiki for the Vibrant and have updated some information. Let me know what you guys think. Is this the way to go?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/wiki/index.php?title=Samsung_Galaxy_S_SGH-T959#ROMs

swehes said:
So looked into the Wiki for the Vibrant and have updated some information. Let me know what you guys think. Is this the way to go?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/wiki/index.php?title=Samsung_Galaxy_S_SGH-T959#ROMs
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Not to be the "Spelling Nazi", and I am not even sure if you can change it, but it is "Kernel" not "Kernal". Also, the Dev on Team Whiskey is Sombionix, not Symbionix.
Otherwise, that looks like a great idea, and possible way of tracking things!
EDIT - I guess I could go ahead and make those tweaks, with it being a wiki and all couldn't I....
EDIT EDIT - Fixed it.

Stargazer3777 said:
Not to be the "Spelling Nazi", and I am not even sure if you can change it, but it is "Kernel" not "Kernal". Also, the Dev on Team Whiskey is Sombionix, not Symbionix.
Otherwise, that looks like a great idea, and possible way of tracking things!
EDIT - I guess I could go ahead and make those tweaks, with it being a wiki and all couldn't I....
EDIT EDIT - Fixed it.
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Click to collapse
Thanks. On both accounts.

Maybe this should be a post to Microsoft
To quote "there are known, unknowns and unknown, knowns and and even sometimes unknown,unknowns............but.........
Developers ----develop they do not become a bookkeeper of their development.........that is coordinating work...........good luck getting any developer in ANY Specialty to do that............. reporting bugs........
---Maybe this should be a post to Microsoft---

N8ter said:
A $20 donation is not worth the risk of bricking a $550 phone just because they got "lazy" and didn't notify donators/downloaders of [a] potentially show-stopping issue.
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I have yet to see a REAL (completely dead) "bricked" vibrant from flashing a released Rom alone. I have seen a lot of user error cause boot loops or "soft-bricks" & HWL phones become unflashable because the end user didn't take the time to research though. As far as devs being "lazy" I dont really see that when the developer is coming here for us to tell him what else we find wrong. They are coding, you flash, you report back with a logcat. This is how development is made to my understanding. If ppl are to lazy to JUST do this then why shouldn't the developer discount long winded post or something they are not experiencing? If they know there is a bug its in the OP.
If you guys can change the interwebz & how 500 post per update are made completely useless please feel free to do so....

swehes said:
So looked into the Wiki for the Vibrant and have updated some information. Let me know what you guys think. Is this the way to go?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/wiki/index.php?title=Samsung_Galaxy_S_SGH-T959#ROMs
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Click to collapse
I think it's a pretty awesome start for sure
As a matter of personal taste, I think having an individual wiki page per ROM (with the known issues and other detailed info) might be nice, although I'm not sure what the policy on new pages is with the XDA wiki.
Speaking from professional experience, the most challenging aspect of any documentation system is always convincing people to use it. It's great to compile the information, but unless ROM builders and devs post a link to the wiki in the forum threads nobody will ever see it. Having good, community based documentation is a benefit to everybody though, so hopefully people will recognize the utility of it and encourage its growth!

First and Second Class ROMS, 1st, 2nd class users

And the thread was closed... (Dissent causes censure).
Fellow Community: Something going arawy in the Samsung I9100 (Galaxy S2) forums.
The purpose of me opening this thread is to ensure community discussion occurs.
With good intentions, our User Experinance Admin @sveitus has sliced apart The Samsung Galaxy S II Android Development, hiving off `the cream` into The Samsung Galaxy S II Original ROM development thread.
The idea being to Quoting (and please read @sveitus's post in case I'm selectively quoting) the explanitory thread
This forum is for ROMs that aren't an original creation by you in terms of the underlying software, meaning, they've been either 1. developed with assistance from a kitchen or are 2. a re-skinning/re-themeing/minor adjustment of a particular ROM developed by someone else.
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The Original ROM's are now found within this subforum
Setting aside the lunacy of thinking that anything apart from ASOP and Samsung's stock ROM isn't derived from something else... or the difficulties in determining which belongs in one thread or another (just watch them bouncy from one to another), I find a two things contra XDA ethos.
This subdivision was done without community consultation.
When announced, there was rapid dissent and the response was to close the thread (for heavens sake).
In fairness, to quote @sveitus
P.S. This is a bit of an experiment. Should it make sense, we'll roll it out to other forums on XDA
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, although my concern is that there is no criteria laid down for "success"
I believe this is a reaction, maybe considered, to two things:
I believe that proportion of the community would like to see forums divided (from what I can tell, divided into Kernels, ROMs and Modems), a proportion are comfortable (complacenty abiding with?) the current structure and a proportion who want to differentiate `original` with `derived`. As is also common in politics, the silent majority will be ignored in favour of the loud minority. I suspect that the democratic view is unknown in this instance.
I believe that this split is a knee jerk reaction to an unfortunate incident where someone released a ROM claiming their own work when (to be confirmed?) all bar part of a theme was taken raw from another source uncredited.
Personally speaking, for a mod to close a thread without explaination isn't easily forgiveable.
What say you?
p.s. (edit) We already have different classes of users based on number of postings, etc.

The forums are not going to be divided. What we did with Galaxy S II was just an experiment...an attempt to keep themes/derivative ROMs (that are based on other ROMs) separate from everything else. Never was this about separating "top tier" developers from everyone else.
As we are going to announce today, we're working on a long-term solution for this, through a ROM database.
Thanks for your feedback.

svetius said:
The forums are not going to be divided. What we did with Galaxy S II was just an experiment...an attempt to keep themes/derivative ROMs (that are based on other ROMs) separate from everything else. Never was this about separating "top tier" developers from everyone else.
As we are going to announce today, we're working on a long-term solution for this, through a ROM database.
Thanks for your feedback.
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Thank you for the quick response. I guess the division of the Samsung S2 forum was an incredibly short lived experiment and I imagine they are being remerged as I type and that themes can live where always should have in their own `themes and apps` sub forum.
I do understand why it is desirable to identify deriviative ROMs (hint: Look at the HD2 Android Dev forum(s) rules to see a great example of useful identification tags in subjects).
Sending you a pm regarding the closure of the thread (for the purpose of me opening this thread was to offer awareness and give our community a voice.

I'm just a user and I wonder how many other user dont really care where there ROMS have come from and just want a category which just contains ROMS, no sitckies, no dev no "coming" soons, just fully flashable ROMS. Now if you could so this it would make this area much easier to use.
I have to say I just don't get this ROM theft rubbish, Android is supposed to be open source, if you don't want to share your ROM don't post it full stop. If donations are'nt good enough for you then don't post it. If someone uses your work then see it as a compliment and live with it. Adding rules and further layers of complexity to the ROM cooking process is just causing arguments that need not be there. Cooks have to accept that their work is going to used, DEVs also as long as it isn't actually an app.
Now if this attitude puts some people off then the ROMS posted will be fewer in number but populated with those lovingly crafted for the sake of it and not by those who simply want ego boosts to or to generate a profit, this isnt what open source or XDA is supposed to be about...!
discuss..

I think we need to be careful about open. If I was to take the post above, change a couple of words and claim as my own then you would be understandably upset that i plagiarised your work. However, if I reply, building upon your message and credit you then that's a positive thing.
Open source is the same.
With you on the rest of it.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA Premium App

tomj777 said:
I think we need to be careful about open. If I was to take the post above, change a couple of words and claim as my own then you would be understandably upset that i plagiarised your work. However, if I reply, building upon your message and credit you then that's a positive thing.
Open source is the same.
With you on the rest of it.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA Premium App
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Not at all, I strongly believe open source should be just that and that alone, plagiarism should not even exist on here. There should be no rules for cooking or ingredients at all. If everyone worked this way then there would be no complaints, everyone would just be sharing everything, we may even see better roms even if we do loose a few players.
Best option is no rules, anything goes and rely on people to do the right thing, those that don't will soon come to light and be appropriately chastised I am sure, this should be good enough.

stoolzo said:
...Best option is no rules, anything goes and rely on people to do the right thing, those that don't will soon come to light and be appropriately chastised I am sure, this should be good enough.
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In a perfect world, that would be ideal. Relying on people to do the right thing would unfortunately lead to chaos. Why? Should we get rid of police officers and courts and just rely on people to "do the right thing"? Nice idea, however the world you mention is fantasy.

stoolzo said:
I'm just a user and I wonder how many other user dont really care where there ROMS have come from
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I for one, also don't care which came from which. Though I understand the devs' who want to protect their fame/donations, which I think the primary reason for these copying disputes.
tomj777 said:
I think we need to be careful about open. If I was to take the post above, change a couple of words and claim as my own then you would be understandably upset that i plagiarised your work. However, if I reply, building upon your message and credit you then that's a positive thing.
Open source is the same.
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Click to collapse
This is true especially if money is involve.
ROM DEV A created a GOOD ROM = donation of ROM DEV A = 100%
ROM DEV B, IMPROVED/CUSTOMIZED ROM OF DEV A = donation of ROM DEV B = xx% = donation of ROM DEV A = 100%-xx%
NOTE: Above is just an example.
I think "orig" ROM devs feels that the donations coming to "derivative" ROM devs should have been theirs.

stoolzo said:
Not at all, I strongly believe open source should be just that and that alone, plagiarism should not even exist on here. There should be no rules for cooking or ingredients at all. If everyone worked this way then there would be no complaints, everyone would just be sharing everything, we may even see better roms even if we do loose a few players.
Best option is no rules, anything goes and rely on people to do the right thing, those that don't will soon come to light and be appropriately chastised I am sure, this should be good enough.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Our society/community is far from the utopic concept that you talk about. I would love nothing more than to not have to enforce any rules in here, trusting that people would just do the right thing, but unfortunately this is far from over. Quite frankly matters got much worse after the introduction of Android. Back when xda was solely focused on Windows Mobile, plagiarism was something that was hardly ever seen around these areas. Everyone had work out in the open, work which they gladly shared with everyone just for the advancement of the platform (and partial resentment against Microsoft ). That work was always credited, any and all help was always acknowledged, and people were all working together towards the same goal. If you want a more utopic XDA, go back 4 years in time and you will find one. Funny enough, it wasn't until Android hit that I learned that this site had moderators. I knew about the administrators but not about moderators... that is how utopic this place was. And if you look at my join date, I have been active here for a very long time.

khein said:
I for one, also don't care which came from which. Though I understand the devs' who want to protect their fame/donations, which I think the primary reason for these copying disputes.
This is true especially if money is involve.
ROM DEV A created a GOOD ROM = donation of ROM DEV A = 100%
ROM DEV B, IMPROVED/CUSTOMIZED ROM OF DEV A = donation of ROM DEV B = xx% = donation of ROM DEV A = 100%-xx%
NOTE: Above is just an example.
I think "orig" ROM devs feels that the donations coming to "derivative" ROM devs should have been theirs.
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No, you are missing the point completely. In your equation, simply replace the word "donation" with the word "feedback". What is dev B going to do with feedback that was meant to go for dev A? Or better yet, if all that dev B did was throw theme packages together and zipped them into a flashable rom, what can dev B do when feedback comes to him asking him to fix something? Dev A needs these feedback and bug reports to improve his work.

Something I think has been missed from these discussions is...
One of the objectives here is to make it easier for users to finds ROMs that just variants of one they already have; the same underlying code base, but with tweaks to improve the user experience; and ROMs with actual improvements - bug fixes, major improvements, etc.
I'm not trying to make a point here, just illustrate another reason for the changes.
Dave

egzthunder1 said:
Our society/community is far from the utopic concept that you talk about. I would love nothing more than to not have to enforce any rules in here, trusting that people would just do the right thing, but unfortunately this is far from over. Quite frankly matters got much worse after the introduction of Android. Back when xda was solely focused on Windows Mobile, plagiarism was something that was hardly ever seen around these areas. Everyone had work out in the open, work which they gladly shared with everyone just for the advancement of the platform (and partial resentment against Microsoft ). That work was always credited, any and all help was always acknowledged, and people were all working together towards the same goal. If you want a more utopic XDA, go back 4 years in time and you will find one. Funny enough, it wasn't until Android hit that I learned that this site had moderators. I knew about the administrators but not about moderators... that is how utopic this place was. And if you look at my join date, I have been active here for a very long time.
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The anything goes really can only be the way forward here because what you are are suggesting in any form is a total nightmare for users which completely defeats the object of XDA, remove ease of use and usefulness and you have no XDA and people will start to leave in droves.
If you agree that 4 years ago was far more ideal than it is currently then why aren't you trying to pull things back to where it was then? All you have to do is to post new rules about XDA stepping back on moderation and leaving users to self moderate. Advise that you will still deal with complaints but on a case by case basis by email and not be thread posts, setup and [email protected] or something. Just moderate the legal and unpleasant stuff.
yes it would be nice to have a one fits all system were everyone would receive the exact amount praise or donations for the work done, in proportion to what effort was put in, this WILL NEVER HAPPEN, if you keep loading layer up layer of complexity on top then you will just break it altogether, plus when something is open source nobody has the right to anything, praise, donations, nothing, open source is about good will, not profit, not fame or fortune. I think XDA allows themselves to get to mixed up in this.
Sometimes you just got to sit back and say F*ck it and let things ride.

DaveShaw said:
Something I think has been missed from these discussions is...
One of the objectives here is to make it easier for users to finds ROMs that just variants of one they already have; the same underlying code base, but with tweaks to improve the user experience; and ROMs with actual improvements - bug fixes, major improvements, etc.
I'm not trying to make a point here, just illustrate another reason for the changes.
Dave
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Click to collapse
I see what you were trying to do but it was a huge fail, it was a nice thought but its better just to shove all the ROMS together and let people try them as just because a ROM says it has this, that or the other it doesn't mean it will work as reported and it may have something the flasher wont like. All XDA needs to do is present the information clearly and leave the user to make up their own mind.
I see no need to break down the subs further other than to put ROMS in their own folder, that would definitely make things easier as the current ROM/DEV folder is a total mess.

egzthunder1 said:
No, you are missing the point completely. In your equation, simply replace the word "donation" with the word "feedback". What is dev B going to do with feedback that was meant to go for dev A? Or better yet, if all that dev B did was throw theme packages together and zipped them into a flashable rom, what can dev B do when feedback comes to him asking him to fix something? Dev A needs these feedback and bug reports to improve his work.
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I have yet to experience what your talking about. ROM B has a problem? Moved to ROM A..
Derived ROM Dev tells "ORIG" ROM Dev an issue? "ORIG" ROM Dev replies that his/her ROM users doesn't report issues, and tells he/she(derived ROM dev) must have done something wrong.
That is normally what happens, because most bugs/issues are found by the "ORIG" rom users.
What if I hosted a copy/modified/derived version of the XDA forums. And my so-called derived XDA forum managed to gain some fame/high activity, even managed to catch up with xda's status/market share. Then one day, a major issue occured, and I couldn't fix it as the problem seems to come from the "ORIG" xda source BUT the "ORIG" xda forum doesn't have this problem. Do you think the XDA admin, would even bother to help me fix my derived XDA forum seeing that his "ORIG" forum could replicate the problem?

stoolzo said:
The anything goes really can only be the way forward here because what you are are suggesting in any form is a total nightmare for users which completely defeats the object of XDA, remove ease of use and usefulness and you have no XDA and people will start to leave in droves.
If you agree that 4 years ago was far more ideal than it is currently then why aren't you trying to pull things back to where it was then? All you have to do is to post new rules about XDA stepping back on moderation and leaving users to self moderate. Advise that you will still deal with complaints but on a case by case basis by email and not be thread posts, setup and [email protected] or something. Just moderate the legal and unpleasant stuff.
yes it would be nice to have a one fits all system were everyone would receive the exact amount praise or donations for the work done, in proportion to what effort was put in, this WILL NEVER HAPPEN, if you keep loading layer up layer of complexity on top then you will just break it altogether, plus when something is open source nobody has the right to anything, praise, donations, nothing, open source is about good will, not profit, not fame or fortune. I think XDA allows themselves to get to mixed up in this.
Sometimes you just got to sit back and say F*ck it and let things ride.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Users did not self moderate 4+ years ago.... there was less need for moderation. You didn't see constant intervention by mods, not because the rules were not in place or because the mods were not around, but rather because there was no drama in the titanic proportions that we see it daily. It is very easy to speak from the regular member's stand point, but the amount of stuff that we (mods and admins) see going through this site day in and day out since the smartphone market exploded would make you want to jump out of a window!
You are suggesting, in essence, that we do away with our rules and let people "do the right thing." Why? Our rules have been in place since early 2003 when the site was founded. For over 5 years, these rules have made xda-developers the site that many regard today as the largest developer community on the web.
You speak of the objective of XDA, what do you think this is? Do you know what the true mission of this site is? XDA is a development and hacking community. It isn't end users that make this community, it is developers, hackers, and enthusiast that are the back-bone of this site. Do you want to know what XDA truly is about?
Read this
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2031989&postcount=45
I think what a lot of people forget is that this is not a "make my phone neat & kewl" place.
As implied by the name this is technically a Developers forum/community.
Now what does that mean? Well first off it means that there is an expectation that if you are here then you want to customize your device but rather than just installing something that someone packaged you want to understand how it works and maybe even enhance it yourself.
When I first came here with a Blue Angel it was a different environment. PDA Phones were not embraced by the general public because of the expense and complexity (I paid over $400 for my BA). A $400 phone 4 years ago was expensive, today the Tilt is $300 after rebates but with inflation & the rise in the cost of other devices and the fact that there are other sources out there giving them away for $150 our neat bit of kit has become popular with mainstream users.
Now we have a flood of new users who are asking not "How can I do this myself" but more like "Give me the quick fix" without caring to understand the process. See if you read the threads then you get to experience the learning process, you see how the issues were investigated and confirmed. Then you get to watch the different attempts at resolution and learn why some failed while others worked. That is called Development.
The NooB backlash is coming from users who have walked in the development shoes and is directed mainly at those who don't care for the journey but just want the end result or destination.
As a Development Forum we are just as much (if not more) about the journey. I've read so many comments like "I don't have time to read all of the threads" or "I don't care how it works, just that it does". These very statements are contrary to the heart & soul of XDA-Devs and that is why the backlash is so strong.
Let me be very clear on this: IF YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT UNDERSTANDING THE JOURNEY THEN YOU PROBABLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
XDA-Devs is about developers & hackers helping each other and working together to get the most out of our devices by understanding them better than most.
XDA-Devs is not about helping everyone who wants a "Kewl bit of kit" make their phone better than the guy next to him.
Now do we go kicking users off who never contribute anything, NO. We tolerate it to an extent. Where the toleration ends is when these users start diluting the usefulness of the forum by repeating the same questions over and over again.
You ask us to understand your position. Well if you want to benefit from our experience and time then I think it is only fair that you understand our position.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the true ethos of XDA. This is what our community and founding members believed and still do regarding how our site should work and what our members should do to "fit" here.

Hi, firstly I am not talking about XDA as a whole, I fully understand the need for general forum rules and regs, I am simply talking here about cooking for android, I am not trying to tell you how to run your shop. Cooking for Android is different I think as Android is supposed to open source, on one hand people should not be expecting anything in return for the work but on the other it is implied that they will as this is a good will based forum, it should remain that way (again for android only I cannot speak for other platforms)
I am simply of the opinion, regarding cooking and only cooking that trying to police this is impossible,
I certainly understand how frustrating it can be for genuine devs and people who put a lot of effort into customising a ROM but it is just impossible to weed out the good from the bad as you have clearly found, plenty has already been said on this so I dont really need to say any more.
Its is certainly true that XDA has changed, its grown into something completely different, perhaps its time for major rethink and not just sticking plasters
Have you thought about setting up a tier forum system?.
Tier one: would be invite only by MODs, this would be a completely seperate forum, laid out in the same way but on a different URL maybe. This would be mainly for devs and cooks, people on here could create, view and edits posts on here and also on the standard main forum as it is now.
Tier two: would be invite only or based on numbers of posts and / or numbers of thankyou's perhaps. (from different users). You would be able to view tier 1 but not post. YOu would be able to view and post the standard forum.
tier three: no access to view tier one, can edit and post on the main standard forum only much like a user can a the moment.
Tier 4: read only access to main form (until they join)
People on Tier 1 would then be able to disucss and share stuff without the background hum of zillions of noob questions and posts, this would also be a lot more decure as invite only would keep out the riff raff.
Tier two people would then have an incentive to contribute more to dev and so reach tier 1 status. You could also use this system as a punishment, people cold be denied access to higher levels if they infringe on rules.
Sounds a little eliteist doesnt it?, well it is a little but I probably wont ever make tier one but can understand the need for something like this.

khein said:
I have yet to experience what your talking about. ROM B has a problem? Moved to ROM A..
Derived ROM Dev tells "ORIG" ROM Dev an issue? "ORIG" ROM Dev replies that his/her ROM users doesn't report issues, and tells he/she(derived ROM dev) must have done something wrong.
That is normally what happens, because most bugs/issues are found by the "ORIG" rom users.
What if I hosted a copy/modified/derived version of the XDA forums. And my so-called derived XDA forum managed to gain some fame/high activity, even managed to catch up with xda's status/market share. Then one day, a major issue occured, and I couldn't fix it as the problem seems to come from the "ORIG" xda source BUT the "ORIG" xda forum doesn't have this problem. Do you think the XDA admin, would even bother to help me fix my derived XDA forum seeing that his "ORIG" forum could replicate the problem?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tbh I think you miss the point. We aren't saying derivative roms aren't important. Of course they are. I even use them occasionally myself. If I'm having an issue with a rom I'm using, of course I will try and help fix the bug. What we are trying to do is aid developers by splitting the forums up into two clear sections

stoolzo said:
I see what you were trying to do but it was a huge fail, it was a nice thought but its better just to shove all the ROMS together and let people try them as just because a ROM says it has this, that or the other it doesn't mean it will work as reported and it may have something the flasher wont like. All XDA needs to do is present the information clearly and leave the user to make up their own mind.
I see no need to break down the subs further other than to put ROMS in their own folder, that would definitely make things easier as the current ROM/DEV folder is a total mess.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That wasn't the only reason you know. Just one of the consequences of the new idea that seems to have been overlooked thus far.

stoolzo said:
Hi, firstly I am not talking about XDA as a whole, I fully understand the need for general forum rules and regs, I am simply talking here about cooking for android, I am not trying to tell you how to run your shop. Cooking for Android is different I think as Android is supposed to open source, on one hand people should not be expecting anything in return for the work but on the other it is implied that they will as this is a good will based forum, it should remain that way (again for android only I cannot speak for other platforms)
I am simply of the opinion, regarding cooking and only cooking that trying to police this is impossible,
I certainly understand how frustrating it can be for genuine devs and people who put a lot of effort into customising a ROM but it is just impossible to weed out the good from the bad as you have clearly found, plenty has already been said on this so I dont really need to say any more.
Its is certainly true that XDA has changed, its grown into something completely different, perhaps its time for major rethink and not just sticking plasters
Have you thought about setting up a tier forum system?.
Tier one: would be invite only by MODs, this would be a completely seperate forum, laid out in the same way but on a different URL maybe. This would be mainly for devs and cooks, people on here could create, view and edits posts on here and also on the standard main forum as it is now.
Tier two: would be invite only or based on numbers of posts and / or numbers of thankyou's perhaps. (from different users). You would be able to view tier 1 but not post. YOu would be able to view and post the standard forum.
tier three: no access to view tier one, can edit and post on the main standard forum only much like a user can a the moment.
Tier 4: read only access to main form (until they join)
People on Tier 1 would then be able to disucss and share stuff without the background hum of zillions of noob questions and posts, this would also be a lot more decure as invite only would keep out the riff raff.
Tier two people would then have an incentive to contribute more to dev and so reach tier 1 status. You could also use this system as a punishment, people cold be denied access to higher levels if they infringe on rules.
Sounds a little eliteist doesnt it?, well it is a little but I probably wont ever make tier one but can understand the need for something like this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey,
Tier 1 does sorta exist It's the recognized developer program, which has an area for this.
If I'm honest, what you describe sounds very much like the new system, with a "big stuff" section (the rec dev area), then a tier 2 area, where the "original" stuff goes, and a tier 3 area for the remainder?

well, not really, my way does not seeks to discourage people by singling out their work, however apparently trivial it may appear to be inferior to others - openly...
My idea was really about giving the more technical / coding minded people more of a say in how they work, somewhere more quiet to share and discuss stuff. If you say this already exists then why don't you extend it to encompass the more favoured cooks?, the more stuff worked on and completed at this level will leave less to fight over at my level.
I still think you should put all the ROMS back together in one category and kick out all the other dev stuff into to its own, if only to help us lowly users find out next ROM more easily, don't forget about us

Assemble Dev Team for an ICS ROM

As our device is dying in support I feel that we need to develop a large development team (10+ people) that will work on ICS for our gtablet. I mean after all our device is capable of running it ( Tegra 250). If you would like to be part of this team shoot an email to [email protected] explaining why you want to be part of this team and what you can contribute. Thank you.

You know that you need a new kernel for ICS to work properly right? Ch3vr0n5 and dpw13 are currently working on it over at slatedroid.

lol. i was gonna post something similar to this in the next couple days. I made the n1 ics port and started work today trying to get ics booting on my gtab. I think first order of business is to start a room on freenode.
#tegratab_ics_dev
all interested parties please join
btw im drewis

texasice said:
lol. i was gonna post something similar to this in the next couple days. I made the n1 ics port and started work today trying to get ics booting on my gtab. I think first order of business is to start a room on freenode.
#tegratab_ics_dev
all interested parties please join
btw im drewis
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
guys,
pm jazzruby, tek112 or fosser2, ch3vron..they are also over @ slatedroid viewsonic gtablet forum..
they have been working on a kernel with hw accel for HC3.2 and ICS. There are been some teaser pics by fosser with ics running on his gtablet.
I'm sure they could use your help...
kernel dev in the gtablet laboratory forum as well.

Cyanogen: Our goal is to provide continued support to all CM7 devices back to the QSD8250 series of devices such as the Nexus One. (12/2/2011)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The CyanogenMod team has also said they will continue to support our gTabs so I am looking forward to CM9 which hopefully will drop some time in January.

sjmoreno said:
The CyanogenMod team has also said they will continue to support our gTabs so I am looking forward to CM9 which hopefully will drop some time in January.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
uhm based on what you quote nothing is said there we dont have qsd in our gtabs...

If anyone is interested and has dev experience shoot me a pm and i'll get you up to date. thanks

Yea upon further investigation there are already a few people working on this. In fact a quick google search will find you a booting cm9 for gtab. (i dont want to post the link since it is pre alpha and not my rom) but the gtab is not lacking devs by any means. (they just arent on xda)
oh and forget my post about the irc room there is already one. but again you must find it yourself
dont know why the pic is green but whatever

texasice said:
Yea upon further investigation there are already a few people working on this. In fact a quick google search will find you a booting cm9 for gtab. (i dont want to post the link since it is pre alpha and not my rom) but the gtab is not lacking devs by any means. (they just arent on xda)
oh and forget my post about the irc room there is already one. but again you must find it yourself
dont know why the pic is green but whatever
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I appreciate that you didn't post the link to this, and please anyone else who "finds" this build (yes its out there) please do not post it anywhere either. It is extremely beta and has many problems (to the point where you would have to open your tablet to push the internal reset button). Thanks

i really don't appreciate this elitist dev crap. "yeah there's a place where you can talk about it, and a build you can get to try it, but i'm not going to tell you where." i completely understand that the devs are doing work that we (I) can't do and that they're entitled to a bit of leeway for that but if they're going to talk about their work in public and post shots, they're just doing it to get a rise out of people. there is no valid reason to restrict people from trying out alpha builds except to keep others out of their club.
of course, if you want to install something against the advice of someone who knows a lot more than you do, that's your perogative but you assume all responsibility. it does absolutely make sense that the devs want ZERO whining or "bug reporting" from alpha builds. ostensibly, the devs and those with technical acumen are trying to protect newbs who might fry their tabs. to my thinking however, nothing would make someone learn faster not to flash random **** than a $300 brick. we're all intelligent humans and not children, however, so
links:
cm9 alpha (install script edited)
gapps
original file
note: THIS IS NOT A DAILY DRIVER. i tested it on a 1.2BL tab. i had to turn off the getprop script asserts to get it to install, which is usually bad form. it boots, but we have no hw acceleration, no wifi, no camera, no sound, no usb storage or adb... etc. this is just a taste, proof that work is being done.
irc is freenode #gtab_kerneldev

Notion ink adam is getting official ICS, I suppose that will help a lot?

iammuze said:
i really don't appreciate this elitist dev crap. "yeah there's a place where you can talk about it, and a build you can get to try it, but i'm not going to tell you where." i completely understand that the devs are doing work that we (I) can't do and that they're entitled to a bit of leeway for that but if they're going to talk about their work in public and post shots, they're just doing it to get a rise out of people. there is no valid reason to restrict people from trying out alpha builds except to keep others out of their club.
of course, if you want to install something against the advice of someone who knows a lot more than you do, that's your perogative but you assume all responsibility. it does absolutely make sense that the devs want ZERO whining or "bug reporting" from alpha builds. ostensibly, the devs and those with technical acumen are trying to protect newbs who might fry their tabs. to my thinking however, nothing would make someone learn faster not to flash random **** than a $300 brick. we're all intelligent humans and not children, however, so
links:
cm9 alpha (install script edited)
gapps
original file
note: THIS IS NOT A DAILY DRIVER. i tested it on a 1.2BL tab. i had to turn off the getprop script asserts to get it to install, which is usually bad form. it boots, but we have no hw acceleration, no wifi, no camera, no sound, no usb storage or adb... etc. this is just a taste, proof that work is being done.
irc is freenode #gtab_kerneldev
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well aren't you cool, learning how to use google and ****.
EDIT: Ok now that I'm done fuming about this. The release that was posted is an early build of CM9. It is based off of Android 4.0.3. The kernel that is included with that release is linux 2.6.36. Since then, we have now moved onto 2.6.39. In no way is the "dev" group elitist. At any time anyone could have joined the IRC group and asked for a download link to the latest kernel/rom. The reason this has not been released yet is because of the "power button" script. When the power button is tripped at random times it causes the entire tablet to freeze up. The only way to "reset" the tablet is to open it up and press the internal reset button, thereby voiding any warranty from Viewsonic. Another issue that I have seen with using this kernel is possible damage to the camera. Just a few days ago I learned that while running this kernel the camera heats up and is hot to the touch, almost to the point of burning yourself. I have since then, unplugged the camera from the mainboard, to hopefully stop damage to the camera (I'm guessing that whoever has run this already without unplugging their camera, has potentially fried it). In short, installing this rom does give you some latest and greatest software to play with, but with it comes risks. DO NOT INSTALL THIS ROM/KERNEL IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO RISK DAMAGING YOUR TABLET.
ps. As a dev. team, we will be releasing HC with a .36 kernel that supports hw accel very soon. Keep your heads up for that release. Hopefully this release can hold people over until everything becomes more stable. Thank you all for patiently waiting.

fosser2 said:
Well aren't you cool, learning how to use google and
ps. As a dev. team, we will be releasing HC with a .36 kernel that supports hw accel very soon. Keep your heads up for that release. Hopefully this release can hold people over until everything becomes more stable. Thank you all for patiently waiting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Kids.....they think they know everything! Haha, just kidding but hopefully maybe people understand why now. Im pumped about the HC release! Im tired of froyo and can't wait to play the THD games that required 2.3+. Thank you and the rest of the team so much for your hard work. Im not a programmer but im going to start digging for the technical info you need for the camera.

fosser2 said:
Well aren't you cool, learning how to use google and ****.
EDIT: Ok now that I'm done fuming about this. The release that was posted is an early build of CM9. It is based off of Android 4.0.3. The kernel that is included with that release is linux 2.6.36. Since then, we have now moved onto 2.6.39. In no way is the "dev" group elitist. At any time anyone could have joined the IRC group and asked for a download link to the latest kernel/rom. The reason this has not been released yet is because of the "power button" script. When the power button is tripped at random times it causes the entire tablet to freeze up. The only way to "reset" the tablet is to open it up and press the internal reset button, thereby voiding any warranty from Viewsonic. Another issue that I have seen with using this kernel is possible damage to the camera. Just a few days ago I learned that while running this kernel the camera heats up and is hot to the touch, almost to the point of burning yourself. I have since then, unplugged the camera from the mainboard, to hopefully stop damage to the camera (I'm guessing that whoever has run this already without unplugging their camera, has potentially fried it). In short, installing this rom does give you some latest and greatest software to play with, but with it comes risks. DO NOT INSTALL THIS ROM/KERNEL IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO RISK DAMAGING YOUR TABLET.
ps. As a dev. team, we will be releasing HC with a .36 kernel that supports hw accel very soon. Keep your heads up for that release. Hopefully this release can hold people over until everything becomes more stable. Thank you all for patiently waiting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks to all the Devs working on this stuff for us! That said if you guys need any testing done just shoot me a PM, I rarely use my tablet any more and have cracked it open plenty of times for other hardware testing. I don't have much time to work on software anymore, but am more than willing to test stuff for you if you don't wish to risk your tablets. Again thanks for all your work.
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App

MOD EDIT:
FORUM RULES:
Encouraging members to participate in forum activities on other phone related sites is prohibited.
Off-site downloads are permitted if the site is non-commercial and does not require registration.

Closing this thread - this is just getting out of hand folks.

ROM Release Rate

I understand, after 2+ years, that ROM development and the forums for the EVO are gonna slow down. Devs are going to move on to other devices, but there is a really disturbing trend here that is irritating the hell out of me.
ROMs used to be released as Aplha's Beta's RC's, final, etc. You could look at the OP and see everything about the ROM. Devs took their time crafting something unique.
Now, I'm seeing these ROMS come out at a rapid pace and I'm not liking it for several reasons.
1) Poorly written OP's that don't even list the Android base version or the kernel, etc.
2) The same ROM with different names and the only real differences are a few 3rd party apps, or a slight theme change.
3) ROMs released as finals, with a ton of bugs. I'm not talking about FFC, Netflix, 4G bugs on ICS/JB ROMS; I'm talking about ROMS with no Wifi, for example. The majority use WiFi. Why the HELL would you release something where one of the most important aspects doesn't even work?? It's like not paying attention to details is suddenly OK
Settings that don't stick. Sounds that don't stick. Constant System Process Errors. These are pre-release errors, and I don't see them getting fixed, because it's become like a race to port every other ROM from every other device and tweak to boot up on the Evo, then letting it go.
I REALLY wish I could take the time and learn how to properly cook up my own ROM. My OCD of paying attention to details would probably make it great.

Hipkat thats the best thing ive heard in weeks,someone finally speaking out about the BS thats being posted now days and its like everyones in a race to see who can come out with the most borked roms,lol,like you said,they are all the same,except the apps and some themeing and half of them cant do that either,i'm sure this isnt meant to be a bashing session,its just getting rediculous with the drama some are causing and all the crappy ass roms being released,some guys do know what their doing,theres been 1 or 2 that i've put out that i shouldnt have,but come on guys at least take your time and try to do it right,only takes a little common sense and effort.If you havent noticed,over half the members and devs have left because of the BS,when i started doing roms,it was fun,nows its just a big joke,lol.
I dont care if anyone gets pissed about this and i'm sure they will,but oh well life goes on,you will eventually get over it.

It's definitely not a bashing, but a call for Devs to take a little more time and do it right

HipKat said:
It's definitely not a bashing, but a call for Devs to take a little more time and do it right
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't Dev, Cook, Build, Port or whatever term is used so I have alot of respect for those that do. With that being said I would also state that I am in complete agreement with you and Diablo.
I look at damned near every topic started in the Dev forum just to see what is being made. I take weeks to look at a new ROM and follow the threads to see what comes of it (with the only exception being Mazda's new CAJB ROM. On that one I went with name recognition and am pleased that I did)
In regards to the mass influx of ROMs I'll say this: If you guys don't take the time to keep up with each item you produce, work on bugs, add new options, answer questions from the users then you'll soon find yourself out of favor. Your reputation here, just like in RL, is something of value. It takes very little to earn trust, respect and loyalty. Most people will always give you the benefit of the doubt. Do something to devalue that trust and it can be nearly impossible to regain.
I think some wisdom can be gleaned by the following quote:
jamieg71 said:
I've seen devs, chefs, hackers, w/e, that make statements like "I do this for myself and just choose to share" or things to that effect. I call BS. I won't speak for anyone else but myself when I say, I do this for the thrill of it, for the challenge, to learn, and to share. I'd be lying if I said I didn't care about d/l numbers or that seeing my thanks meter grow did not give me some juvenalalistic (is that a word?) thrill. The fact is, guys like me doing this stuff get off on it...
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Click to collapse
We know why you do it, and if you want to keep your junkies and not lose your rep, then make sure you take the time to Develop your craft and thereby make a better product for the masses...
Sorry for the rant

Well said, and nice quote from Jamie, who, btw, you notice took a lot of time with Reloaded

HipKat said:
Well said, and nice quote from Jamie, who, btw, you notice took a lot of time with Reloaded
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
...lol, 'nuff said!

I think everyone needs to remember the difference between Development and Port / Theme / Tweak / Mod. That simple labeling would be a start

Over in Evo LTE land, they have finally recognized this distinction by creating entirely separate forums for "HTC EVO 4G LTE Android Development" and "HTC EVO 4G LTE Original Android Development"
One is for tweaks or ports, and the other is for people who actually compile something.

I made a request for the same original dev section but got denied as our device is to old.
I agree that there are a ton of ports and not enough originality or bugs being fixed. What I would like to state us that the op is stating that a lot have some third party apps but that's like calling the kettle black. You yourself have a rerelease of a miui from where all you did was slap your team name in the thread. I believe the original thread still exists. I'm not calling you out at all but at the same time the work that goes into all these ports or mods or what not is a ton. I myself have my rom thread and some new stuff coming out but I don't call people out usually on their stuff unless its a pure kang(meaning an actual using of ur work with out permission) not a duplicate port.
Yeah some of the revs here could put a little more work in and for sure learn to organize their rom thread a whole hell of a lot better but at the same time who else do u see bringing the newest and best to a two year old device.
XDA Moderator

It's not that they have 3rd party apps, all ROMS do, it's that some ROMS are just the same ROM with a few different 3rd party apps, or a slight variation in theming, and I mean real slight, but tbh, my biggest beef was with the OP not even listing what kernel is in the ROM, or if it has A2SD or a way to get it working, or the version of Android it's based on, etc.
Add in bug reports that get ignored or the person posting the report gets demeaned for it.
Mostly, it's just the sloppiness that I see going on over the last few months. Too hasty to release something without really perfecting it first

HipKat said:
It's not that they have 3rd party apps, all ROMS do, it's that some ROMS are just the same ROM with a few different 3rd party apps, or a slight variation in theming, and I mean real slight, but tbh, my biggest beef was with the OP not even listing what kernel is in the ROM, or if it has A2SD or a way to get it working, or the version of Android it's based on, etc.
Add in bug reports that get ignored or the person posting the report gets demeaned for it.
Mostly, it's just the sloppiness that I see going on over the last few months. Too hasty to release something without really perfecting it first
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can agree with that there. sloppy op's without all the listings of what is added or taken out and what its running with a q & a section amoung other things.

I feel like we developers and porters alike should make a check list. Every time you want to post something, run through the list and then once everything is there, read again. If it seems like a business proposition (detailed, understandable, provocative and complete) then, that is the right moment to unleash it.

Thats exactly what i do,i make a list in notepad of what i want to do to the rom,then i go through and check it off as i go,wahla,i have a channelog,so to speak,then post it on the thread.Just like in my 4 Kornerz thread..... http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1612933

Same thing I'm gonna do as I try and update this MIUI GB ROM

What's funny is that the main reason I always hated opening ROM threads is because I'm completely OCD and feel like the posts have to make perfect sense. I try for my thread to make a little bit of sense at least at this point. And I try to keep change logs, bug reports & FAQs up to date.
But then again, I only have one ROM thread in this device section.
----------------------
Current Device: HTC EVO 4G LTE | ROM: toasted-deck CM10 | Kernel: Stock

Kernel should be listed.
a2sd included/not included AND if a specific version is known to work/not work.
Gapps included/not included (you can usually tell from the size of the ROM, but still)
SuperSU vs. Superuser
Wifi and data working/not working
Boot animation audio (can lead to uncomfortable moments when flashing in restrooms, in bed, around family or in TSA security lines--- yes, all personal experiences)
Probably much more...
RootzWiki kinda sorta tried to standardize some of that in OP headers. Would be cool to see that concept expanded in a visually pleasing manner. But, I know people like sprucing up their OP to their liking. Example:
Source: https://github.com/s...mmc-ra-recovery
Mod Type: Recovery Difficulty: Moderate Mod Status: Kang Mod Base: Carrier:
Requires Root: Yes Apply In: Fastboot Optional: Themed Optional: Android Version:
I think ports are great. If the developer is planning on just bringing it over and leaving it alone I think that's fine, but they should be upfront and say "Hey, I did this. Probably won't do any more with it myself, but anyone is welcome to add to it. Otherwise, enjoy."
What I'd really like to see is the people who respond first after an OP + OP reserved do something with that slot besides planting their flag of happening to be online at the right time (e.g. "First. Looks cool!"). They could take the lead, especially for very active developers with many ROMs and threads, to follow that thread and maintain an updated ROM Cheat Sheet/Known Fixes post. How many times have you followed the development of a ROM and things like the new boot animation didn't make it into the next update because the developer forgot. Then people post, "Hey, what happened to the boot ani" five or six times. Then a nice person posts it on Dropbox. Then a few people say other things. Then people repeat the question. Then people point them to the Dropbox link two pages back. Repeat. Repeat. Probably wouldn't matter though since a lot of people never read the OP. They sure wouldn't read that. I'll shut up.

smelkus said:
Kernel should be listed.
a2sd included/not included AND if a specific version is known to work/not work.
Gapps included/not included (you can usually tell from the size of the ROM, but still)
SuperSU vs. Superuser
Wifi and data working/not working
Boot animation audio (can lead to uncomfortable moments when flashing in restrooms, in bed, around family or in TSA security lines--- yes, all personal experiences)
Probably much more...
RootzWiki kinda sorta tried to standardize some of that in OP headers. Would be cool to see that concept expanded in a visually pleasing manner. But, I know people like sprucing up their OP to their liking. Example:
Source: https://github.com/s...mmc-ra-recovery
Mod Type: Recovery Difficulty: Moderate Mod Status: Kang Mod Base: Carrier:
Requires Root: Yes Apply In: Fastboot Optional: Themed Optional: Android Version:
I think ports are great. If the developer is planning on just bringing it over and leaving it alone I think that's fine, but they should be upfront and say "Hey, I did this. Probably won't do any more with it myself, but anyone is welcome to add to it. Otherwise, enjoy."
What I'd really like to see is the people who respond first after an OP + OP reserved do something with that slot besides planting their flag of happening to be online at the right time (e.g. "First. Looks cool!"). They could take the lead, especially for very active developers with many ROMs and threads, to follow that thread and maintain an updated ROM Cheat Sheet/Known Fixes post. How many times have you followed the development of a ROM and things like the new boot animation didn't make it into the next update because the developer forgot. Then people post, "Hey, what happened to the boot ani" five or six times. Then a nice person posts it on Dropbox. Then a few people say other things. Then people repeat the question. Then people point them to the Dropbox link two pages back. Repeat. Repeat. Probably wouldn't matter though since a lot of people never read the OP. They sure wouldn't read that. I'll shut up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL, you forgot 'Lather, Rinse...'
Who else clicked the link

While I agree with the OP 100%, I think at the end of the day there is NO rule that states that you need to do all that..... This is for FREE, and therefore we should be happy with we get on our EVO's nowadays..... I wish developers took their time to put a fully detail change log, bug list Q&A's section, but honestly if we don't like the way certain devs handle their threads, then just move on to the next Rom either way I don't develop, and I can figure out most stuff regarding a Rom by myself now, so I'm just thankful for all the roms out for the og EVO.
Edit: what I would like to know is what's going on with all the Rom teams flip flopping, what's up with that? Sorry to go off topic, lol.
Sent from my PC36100 using xda premium

Sorry, but while I appreciate the freeness of the work done and am grateful for it, there should still be enough info to identify exactly what you're getting into.
Perfect example. A lot of ICS/JB ROMS require the patched A2SD file. Good luck finding it. Why not add a link to the OP?? Same with GAPPS
And the date that it was released is much appreciated, although not as critical. The Android version if it's a Sense and/or GB ROM is definitely something that should be there, along with the kernel.

PHE-NOM said:
Edit: what I would like to know is what's going on with all the Rom teams flip flopping, what's up with that? Sorry to go off topic, lol.
Sent from my PC36100 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Two teams merged. Some people have left teams. I myself left td to not look partial towards a certain group.
XDA Moderator

[UPDATE:16.10.12]ATRI Atrix ThatRom Installer v2

hello, i've made an Automated Atrix ThatRom Installer.
This script will help noobs to do everything without any troubles.
The file is a rar archive with all firmware files + installer.
here is a link http://www.mobile-inform.com/content/view/1148/1/
this is early alpha. you take all responsibility on yourself. I do not recommend you to use this rom, but if you still want to use it - here it is
UPD Updated To ThatRom v2 (AtrICS)
all thanks to the author of ThatRomv2 (AtrICS), i made only the Installer!
With best regards
the_fly

I don't think that it's a good idea to make an automatic installer of something that it's no stable for someone who doesn't even know how to use fastboot nor flash a zip. Maybe when this finally reaches the stable "level", then you should do the Installer.

BravoMotorola said:
Maybe, until you're not annoying, you should stfu. Seriously stop trying to tell people what to do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow dude, that was really uncalled for. He is actually right because now the op has put himself in a position to be harassed by anyone who tries this and messes up their phone even though they should and do know the risks. He was just trying to be helpful, he wasn't attacking the op for making it.

I agree making an unstable, untested, developer test build easily available to newbies is a very bad idea. If they can't at the VERY least learn how to use fastboot and adb, they should come nowhere near this ROM. Unless of course you really want to be held responsible for dozens of bricked and/or unusable phones, and be expected to provide extensive support at all times.

if they are noobs - it is their problem. Everything is written befoure me.
Everyone takes responsibility for their actions.
There were several noobs who were crying about ICS even if they do not know what to do. and they are happy now, despite the bugs.
I am not, but i made for those who are. I am not going to tell anyone to install it, i did only help, but i suggest nobody to install it.

It doesn't work and you know it. It's as if there was some paid software that people want, and you made a crack/patch for it, and then you say you don't advise using it. Do you really think people will stay away just because you advised so? No, they won't. In fact in that case your disclaimers make no difference whatsoever, you are equally at fault for making it available as they are for using it. Why do you think all anti-piracy companies always go after crack makers and distributors and not so much after users? I mean many crack makers also advise against using their cracks. But people are stupid and never listen, and in in the eyes of many crack makers are the original offenders.
Or if you want a different analogy - go find a mentally unstable person who can't really think straight (may seem offensive but noobs who want test builds on their phones clearly do not know what they're doing), then place a bottle of some drugs and a fresh needle within easy reach, and then tell them you advise not using it. Observe what happens.
IMO this kind of things are best dealt with preemptively, by not even making the potentially controversial stuff easily available.

you see, i've made first script of unlocking the boot a year ago. a lot of peole thanked me. they were happy - they unlocked once and than used other ways to change the firmware. They were noobs, but happy noobs. 18 000 downloads (i think some of them were same persons, for example me - while i was testing, or when i was unlocking for my friends), but only 4!!! broken phones. 2 of them caused by bad motherboard and 2 of them by ignoring the manual and all the warnings.
This one is more easy one. less questins. less work. just use it.
and if person already have unlocked boot there will be no problem with this FW
and i want to mention it again some users are happy enought with this fw. Some do not have reboots, some have but for them it is ok.

You should tell everyone that this is a very alpha rom. It does run without multiple reboots for most people per the forums. I personally have tried all methods and cannot get it to run.
I appreciate your efforts but this is not something that noobs will get any value from. You should be very clear upfront.
Sent from my MB860 using xda app-developers app

agurzhiy said:
hello, i've made an Automated Atrix ThatRom Installer.
This script will help noobs to do everything without any troubles.
The file is a rar archive with all firmware files + installer.
With best regards
the_fly
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks agurzhiy!
I am a proud noob who used your unlock script and will use this one.
For all the pros which have a problem with this- you have the same approach as Motorola - "It's complicated you can't understand this". It's my choice what to do with my phone and agurzhiy providing us noobs with a possibility to participate in the effort to make it better.
The bottom line is instead of criticize why don't you spend this time and energy on creating and helping the community. Remember you were ones noobs too.
Sent from my MB860 using xda app-developers app

e07015 said:
You should tell everyone that this is a very alpha rom. It does run without multiple reboots for most people per the forums. I personally have tried all methods and cannot get it to run.
I appreciate your efforts but this is not something that noobs will get any value from. You should be very clear upfront.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i think everyone knows that it is alpha rom. nobody is going to install a script if if nobody knows what's inside. But i will add that it is alpha

ComX said:
For all the pros which have a problem with this- you have the same approach as Motorola - "It's complicated you can't understand this".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're missing my point entirely here. But that's okay. I don't want to argue anymore.

Is this just a fastboot script or an bootloader unlocker and ram fix etc etc

ravilov said:
You're missing my point entirely here. But that's okay. I don't want to argue anymore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do not think that this is an argument. It is more like sharing different views on a subject.
I know what you mean, you want to prevent (or at least warn) noobs from taking the risk of bricking their phone and you are right 100%. But let me ask you how many of XDA readers are dumb enough to download some thing like this without reading at least a bit about it(*). Give ppl a little credit, most of us will stop on red light although it is possible to continue. Take me for example: I wanted to use nebtop but had a difficulty to understand how to root. Than mramirezusa came out with Automatic bootloader for noobs like me and boom - now I'm using the atrix as a streamer and without this tool I couldn't do this on my own. My point is that having a possibility to do stuff is highly appreciated.
* Ryan Dunn: If You Gonna be Dumb - You Gotta Be Tough.

this is a fastboot script to make it faster and easyer for a noob

UPDATE:
added the 32 bit version for x86 Windows

agurzhiy said:
UPDATE:
added the 32 bit version for x86 Windows
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude, you've only been thanked here 7 times... Stop thinking so highly of yourself.
Unless you are going to stick around the forums helping these guys out when they have issues with your release, because they won't have anywhere else to go, and because other devs are busy with their own stuff, than you should probably refrain from posting anything that makes it easier to flash dangerous software.
Unless you're willing to help "guy xyz" (since quotes seem to be in) on "page 74" when he asks again, "why am i having video issues after flash", because your main post lacks important details and explanation and your web link is not multi-lingual, please refrain from posting content which could be perceived as harmful to use.
Any good software community recommends first releasing to a smaller test group in order to work out major bugs and minimize any potential impact the software may have on the device... And, any good service community would recommend first releasing to a smaller test group in order to create a base to compare full deployment scenarios against... In no cases would they make it easy to install buggy software on devices of users who can not adequately report issues during alpha stages of software.
Why is it so hard to understand how that applies here?

Zeljko1234 said:
IMO, you should stop spending so much time here on the forum arguing with people. Don't get me wrong but your posts are usually quite offensive (example what I saw today). You post almost in every thread, smartassing noobs, playing to be moderator... If you know something, share it, if post or thread is against the rules, report it.
Now you're arguing with guy who made first script of unlocking the bootloader and in the same time insinuate that many of xda members are just dump.
Forum, especially xda, is about sharing knowledge not giving useless advise/comment or to google it.
P.S.
Sorry everyone for off topic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We try not to feed him, Zeljko1234... Just let him be.
Your point is well deserved; but don't feed the trolls.

knigitz said:
Dude, you've only been thanked here 7 times... Stop thinking so highly of yourself.
Unless you are going to stick around the forums helping these guys out when they have issues with your release, because they won't have anywhere else to go, and because other devs are busy with their own stuff, than you should probably refrain from posting anything that makes it easier to flash dangerous software.
Unless you're willing to help "guy xyz" (since quotes seem to be in) on "page 74" when he asks again, "why am i having video issues after flash", because your main post lacks important details and explanation and your web link is not multi-lingual, please refrain from posting content which could be perceived as harmful to use.
Any good software community recommends first releasing to a smaller test group in order to work out major bugs and minimize any potential impact the software may have on the device... And, any good service community would recommend first releasing to a smaller test group in order to create a base to compare full deployment scenarios against... In no cases would they make it easy to install buggy software on devices of users who can not adequately report issues during alpha stages of software.
Why is it so hard to understand how that applies here?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why don't you argue with epinter or any other person who put ThatRom?
Why are you arguing with me?
i made the thing easier, but i am not responsible for the uncomplete software. some people are lazy to use fastboot, but they know how to use it (i have flashed my phone 3 times while testing some of options to find out how it works)
other do not have enough knowledge to flash, but it's thair dream to have it, they are ready for the bugs and they alwas can ask me to help them to flash any other FW. And if they have unlocked boot - they can use CWM.
And the last group - the people who are just afraid to install after a lot of information about locking bootloaders. In russian community forums i've read 10 such questions from people who i know, from people who know how to use fastboot.
And if person do not want to install it - he may not install it!

I'm thankful to everyone who share knowledge. Even if I don't use everything, I usually download or read just to learn how. Without such guys, Internet itself will be mostly useless.
Do not blame anyone (especially epinter) for your mistake. He and many others guys spend a lot of their private time to figure how to do something, developing, supporting... and then sahre for free! As I can see, very rare they get donation. Almost never for the most loudest complainers which just wait that someone else will do something for them.

As I explained, as long as you are willing to stick around and help people with issues they encounter after flashing this, and provide more detailed instructions that people can read in your first post, it's not an issue.
Low thank count makes the more seasoned members cringe, as people release stuff that brick phones then disappear (it happens), leaving the community in a state of unrest trying to figure out the full impact of an unmaintained release, how many users were affected by the release, and a common way to fix the issues, and it leaves it up to other developers to explain to every xyz person to read this thread, read that thread, or flash this to fix.
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2

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