Database Users

Concerning jaxouk Thread on Best Roms

Okay firstly this is what jaxouk wrote:
I have read many posts where people are asking which is the best rom for my device (and have done myself) only to get abrupt replies with something like "how dare you ask this, chefs put a lot of effort into each rom and its down to personal preferance blah blah" ................"THREAD CLOSED"
Does every one think think this is the best way for xda to be run or is there other people that think this should be allowed to be debated? I know this is originally a developer forum, however I would hazard a guess that there is now more public users that devolpers.
The thing is developers develope roms and yes certainly they put a lot of time and effort into it and are respected rightly so for it. however can the end user really be expected not to be allowed to discuss these roms on the forum only to be told the above mensioned things. It happens time and again over and over. People like myself (the end user) do not have time to flash every rom to find the ones they like. (its a days setting up for myself after a flash) and if its crap (which there is no denying. some are) its a day wasted.
What I think the forum needs is a "ROM USER REVIEW" section where people like myself can go and rate a rom for other users referance.
Surely this is the key to better roms. If one developers rom is poor hes going to be able to see that its poor and will/might take the user rating / comments on board and the next time try harder.... ultimately producing a better rom.
Competition is what makes better products, If handset manufacturers took the same stance as xda we would be waiting for the realease of the o2 xda 2s later this year. and this is the same in all industries.
Okay so firstly Spot on and totally agree with you which as we all can see the majority of members using XDA agree with too.
Secondly this is what itje wrote who is a Moderator here:
I closed this thread, due to the same reason all the others that are similar all over xda are closed on sight.
These kind of threads usualy/always ends up in disputes and flamewars, there is always some hotheaded ppl who burst into flames when someone dont have the same view as they do.
So... sorry, yeah we close
So basically what you are saying is we as members are not allowed to treat XDA as a discussion forum as well as a Developer Forum? I thought the whole meaning to the word Forum, was for people to discuss there DIFFERENT opinions and have certain disputes with one another.
Sorry if people dont agree with this and please tell me why but I just think its silly that a mod would close a thread incase someone shouts and god forbid have an opinion.
Let me know what you guys think

It´s realy funny, when new user come to this forum and try to tell the old, experienced user, how the forum should go. I sometimes need to laugh about those statements but there are times i only want cry
I´m 100% agree with the Moderators (cause they are Moderators ). If you spend some more time around here, you will see how this forum works. Just use it, don´t complain.

I wasnt telling anyone how to run THIS forum I was basically explaining to everyone how a forum is normally run, if this is the way everyone likes it then fine but looking through 100's of posts and topics around here all I see is members and "noobs" getting put down from the likes of you.

crazy cat said:
It´s realy funny, when new user come to this forum and try to tell the old, experienced user, how the forum should go. I sometimes need to laugh about those statements but there are times i only want cry
I´m 100% agree with the Moderators (cause they are Moderators ). If you spend some more time around here, you will see how this forum works. Just use it, don´t complain.
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me no understand

This has been explained again and again.
Personal and objective opinions are not allowed here. So if you can't make your own judgement on which ROM's to use you might want to stick to the stock ROM. Or The best thing to do is setup your own personal blog for these types of things. Then you can say what you want.
This will be another thread closed soon i feel.

It's impossible to determine what 'the best rom' would be...
Some ppl love a transparent clock, others hate it.
Same with the slider bar.
Same with themes.
Some ppl love a windows build with the start button on the top, some ppl love it with the button on the bottom.
Some ppl love to have a crapload of apps installed, some ppl hate it.
Some ppl love to have the newest unstable build, some ppl want the secure and stable one.
I might love a rom and you might hate it, the only objective criteria is how stable a rom is but even that can be debated. So you just have to try, see what works for you and go from there.

thread closed (i wish)

i have no problem myself with people arguing about something, even when things are heating. i am more then capable to defend myself
you know what they say - when the going gets tough, the though gets going
it is clear that general policy of this forum will not allow this kind of debate
what i am suggesting is something i saw on othe forums:
a special place with a big warnig ENTER ON YOUR OWN RISK, or something like that
this special place is organised as a battle place where every user can call out another user on a subject and then they have a public "battle". the other users are the public and in the end they choose which of the fighters is the winner
here the rules are somehow loose and mods only came in when things are realy degenerate - curses, personal insults, family offense, etc.
bottom line - i, personaly, would allow topics about best roms, best apps, best whatever, and when people cross the line i would suggest them to cool down on the battle field
this can be a stupid ideea, but maybe something like that will help users to get off the presure somewhere and then to disscuss cool and polite the subjects they are interested in
regards

noris08 said:
i have no problem myself with people arguing about something, even when things are heating. i am more then capable to defend myself
you know what they say - when the going gets tough, the though gets going
it is clear that general policy of this forum will not allow this kind of debate
what i am suggesting is something i saw on othe forums:
a special place with a big warnig ENTER ON YOUR OWN RISK, or something like that
this special place is organised as a battle place where every user can call out another user on a subject and then they have a public "battle". the other users are the public and in the end they choose which of the fighters is the winner
here the rules are somehow loose and mods only came in when things are realy degenerate - curses, personal insults, family offense, etc.
bottom line - i, personaly, would allow topics about best roms, best apps, best whatever, and when people cross the line i would suggest them to cool down on the battle field
this can be a stupid ideea, but maybe something like that will help users to get off the presure somewhere and then to disscuss cool and polite the subjects they are interested in
regards
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Another problem with this kind of thing is you will have people come to this thread and ***** and complain about a particular ROM instead of the original ROM thread. The truth be known many of the problems users face are due to them not following instruction or due to some other incompatible software there are trying to use and then they blame their problems on the ROM creator. The down side to this is a thread like this will only open up negative criticism of a ROM and cause harm to the cook that maybe unjust. Not to mention that the problems need to be kept within the ROM threads in order to better improve the ROM's.
I understand what people want and this is why I made the statement to open your own blog or site to do these things and then link to here.

i have to agree. cooker cooks a rom and we rate it. if it was just "cook, post, upload, thread closed" in res of the world then everyone would buy apple, but cause its the information age we need to know what is what and where is where.
this should be even more seen here on "professional" forum like xda-developers.
i totaly agree with OP.
@bazgee: saying that 'noobs' shouldnt talk.. makes you so much more a 'noob'. your ass wasn't born smart and so wasn't OPs.
bobsbbq said:
Another problem with this kind of thing is you will have people come to this thread and ***** and complain about a particular ROM instead of the original ROM thread.
....
The down side to this is a thread like this will only open up negative criticism of a ROM and cause harm to the cook that maybe unjust. Not to mention that the problems need to be kept within the ROM threads in order to better improve the ROM's.
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This is what forums are for!! To ASK, and to ANSWER!!

Edit; I'm not going to say something, post removed.

Really, is it *that* hard to understand there is *no* best ROM? They are all different!
It's apples vs oranges. It can't be compared. If your imagination needs a bit of help, look up consoles vs PCs, or PS3 vs x360 threads. Have you ever seen one not turn into a massive flamefest? ... exactly!
If you want to make sure a ROM working, check the last 2-3 pages of ROMs thread to see if there are people complaining.

Developers Forum?
The notion that this is a developers forum is a myth anyway. The end users play a massive role in here, determining bugs, requesting new features or feature removal and indeed critiquing the ROM within its own thread.
The idea that WW3 will break out if we allow dedicated discussion threads seems a bit weak to me. I've seen heated discussions in ROM threads and they never became more than that.
I'm sure it is more to do with protecting the ROM developers so that the ones who's ROMs may be bottom of the pile don't walk away, which is fair enough.
But from some people there is an all around lack of respect on this forum for the general user who do that deepest broadest testing, offer wirespread feedback and go a long way to making the ROM's what they are today.
And do not forget - if these folks weren't here to download the ROM's, how many chefs do you think would be here to cook them! Both sides need each other. I don't doubt the chefs get a kick from giving people what they want.
The moderators don't 'need' to do anything (We will all be here anyway) but if they have some respect then they should take on board and accomodate what appears to be the opinion of a vast number of users.
I'm sure there is some middle ground somewhere if we try and look ....

Really, is it *that* hard to understand there is *no* best ROM? They are all different!
That is not the case. There are roms that are the fastest, Roms that are the smoothest, Roms that have the best landscape support, Roms with the best apps to suit needs amongst others. Certainly if you try and make one overall top ten then it is going to be a lucky dip, but nobody suggested that.
It's apples vs oranges. It can't be compared. If your imagination needs a bit of help, look up consoles vs PCs, or PS3 vs x360 threads. Have you ever seen one not turn into a massive flamefest? ... exactly!
I'm not sure consolve vs PC is quite the same a comparing different ROMs as they have the same hardware, similar architecture, purpose etc Your also getting a little needlesly condescending now ;-)
If you want to make sure a ROM working, check the last 2-3 pages of ROMs thread to see if there are people complaining.
This is good advice for bug testing but does not offer any more constructive information on the whole.

mwillems2 said:
Really, is it *that* hard to understand there is *no* best ROM? They are all different!
That is not the case. There are roms that are the fastest, Roms that are the smoothest, Roms that have the best landscape support, Roms with the best apps to suit needs amongst others. Certainly if you try and make one overall top ten then it is going to be a lucky dip, but nobody suggested that.
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How exactly they are not different then? There is no two exactly same ROMs, with exactly same aims and objectives of a cook over here. Reading ROM description tells you exactly what the rom does and what the cook aims to achieve.
As an example; some ROMs have custom themes, some roms use MaxManilla, some use stock, some use something completely different. You can't quantify what's better. It's personal preference.
You can't possibly quantify 'best apps to suit needs' as everyone has different needs. As I said apples vs oranges.
If you want to make sure a ROM working, check the last 2-3 pages of ROMs thread to see if there are people complaining.
This is good advice for bug testing but does not offer any more constructive information on the whole.
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Again, I'm trying to understand what are you on about, but I can't. What is constructive information according to you?
You have ROM description on the first page, you can check the last few if there are any issues with it. What else do you want?
[/QUOTE]

i agree what bobsbbq said ,is not fair to say that this rom is good and this rom is better but if you try the other rom is far more better,is dissrespectul from the chefs trying to help you guys having best rom's avialible and to open another thread to say things like that is bad,so for me i choose my own judgement and would not ask others wich rom is best,so this thread is closed

mwillems2 said:
The notion that this is a developers forum is a myth anyway.
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You're saying this like it is somehow an acceptable, or possibly even a good thing. It is not.
It's true that this forum is now visited by people who:
cannot be bothered to read the first post of any thread
have no intention of educating themselves, only blindly consuming
will shamelessly ***** and make demands about things they are getting for free
These people do not make the community "better" in any way, and this kind of behaviour should not be tolerated in my view.
mwillems2 said:
The idea that WW3 will break out if we allow dedicated discussion threads seems a bit weak to me. I've seen heated discussions in ROM threads and they never became more than that.
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Heated discussions in themselves do not need to escalate any further. They are already a waste of everybody's time, and have no place here.
mwillems2 said:
But from some people there is an all around lack of respect on this forum for the general user who do that deepest broadest testing, offer wirespread feedback and go a long way to making the ROM's what they are today.
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I'm relatively sure the user who is seriously interested in testing and reporting is not in need of a completely seperate thread to voice their opinion on which ROM is somehow "best". For testers it's not constructive to voice opinions about a ROM in any other thread than the original ROM thread.
mwillems2 said:
And do not forget - if these folks weren't here to download the ROM's, how many chefs do you think would be here to cook them! Both sides need each other. I don't doubt the chefs get a kick from giving people what they want.
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Not so sure about that. I've seen plenty of chefs say that they basically cook for themselves, and just like to share. Even if they are cooking for the community, they do not need people to praise or diss their ROM's in any other thread than their own.
Overall, I feel the biggest problem with having a centralized ROM discussion thread is the intented audience: people who cannot be bothered to test and compare by themselves, people who cannot be bothered to read individual ROM threads.
What would be the point in creating a new thread for these people? Once it gets beyond 1 page, they will not bothered to read it anyway.

for me personally these "top 20s" don't have any value whatsoever but i understand why so many people want them. some of them are just lazy and want to avoid to read the threads, others are not able to think for themselves and need to be told what is good or bad for them and there are those who want to become famous reviewers.
for cryin' out loud, don't fix what is not broken! this forum is perfect as it is. moderators, don't let the comorades tell you what to do!

Volw said:
How exactly they are not different then? There is no two exactly same ROMs, with exactly same aims and objectives of a cook over here. Reading ROM description tells you exactly what the rom does and what the cook aims to achieve.
As an example; some ROMs have custom themes, some roms use MaxManilla, some use stock, some use something completely different. You can't quantify what's better. It's personal preference.
You can't possibly quantify 'best apps to suit needs' as everyone has different needs. As I said apples vs oranges.
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I think is better we not make comparative, believe it is better for all!!
but if you say it is impossible to compare among themselves the Rom, you're wrong!

lol reopened.
anyway i belive this huld be discussed. we are here three levels of people. so this will need for 1st level, and 2nd level will be trying the roms and giving feed backs. so 3rd level always will be cooking and editing roms. just my opinion.
lets start the work.. i go for duttys HG V.08

Xda vibrant section in jeopardy?

Ok, is this *normal* that one by one the devs (jac, kk, sombionix and the rest of tw, and now - eugene373) proclaimed, effectively, that are abandoning (at least to a certain degree) xda? Their personal conflicts (which are unlikely our business) aside, is there anything else that feeds this tendency? In particular, are the xda modes doing enough (or anything at all?) to diffuse and perhaps reverse the trend? Or am I wrong to assume that this would be their business? I witnessed that 90% of (sane) xda members are being as supportive as ever to devs. There are, of course, the challenged ones, but it's the internet. So I don't see anything that regular (sane) members did wrong. And yet the facts are... disturbing.
P.S. Oh, and, after a week of admiring 'wannaby modes' nonsense here, do you mind not telling me that this thread doesn't belong to general or is off-topic? The point of this is to discuss if anything can be done to prevent that many see as an unfortunate trend in *vibrant* section.

I don't know about JAC or KK, because they are the older developers who works on the I9000 model before I even get a chance to visit XDA.
I believe that Team Whiskey moved out because they want to have their own support forum, with dedicated Donator Section for their supporters. Also to provide more ROM specific support for their ROMS.
As for Eugene, I am not too sure, but it may be due to people no respecting his work?
P.S. When did Eugene said that he is 'leaving' XDA?

He never said this. But he explicitly said that he is abandoning specific xda threads (which is, obviously, his full right) and will be posting only on his site.

i can understand this. Its starting to turn into a business, if they want to post their work that they put time into on their own website, that is their full right, and it makes sense. And it shouldnt be that big of a deal, its not that hard to make an account on either of their websites to gain access to their forums. So if they want to make their ROM's a little more private, then i give permission haha

While it's unfortunate, it seems pretty necessary to me. It's impossible to continue to have all discussion on a particular ROM in a single thread. It makes it much harder to find bug reports, for example. So having your own forum and website dedicated to your own ROM makes sense.
Just because they're leaving XDA doesn't mean they're gonna stop coding. And all of the devs know quite well that XDA is the best place to inform people about their ROMs.

Oh well I hope team whiskey makes a mobile app for theyre site
Still flashing , thanks to odin

Just for your knowledge..
KK was banned
JAC well know one knows
But just because most of us are opening our own sites doesnt mean we are going to jump away from XDA.
XDA is a great way to get our names out there..
Our personal sites are just so you guys have all our work in one location & can ask more questions or request features there. (Or that is was I do)

Keeping it classy, o yeah.
XDA is the hub... their sites are the gold mines.
Keep supporting the developers as much as you can, and that Vibrant is going to always be in tip-top form.

Master™ said:
Just for your knowledge..
KK was banned
JAC well know one knows
But just because most of us are opening our own sites doesnt mean we are going to jump away from XDA.
XDA is a great way to get our names out there..
Our personal sites are just so you guys have all our work in one location & can ask more questions or request features there. (Or that is was I do)
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I missed what kk was banned for possibly a little before my time here
Still flashing , thanks to odin

I try to keep the Wiki updated with information. Although it is not mine to house hold so if anyone else want to add their 2 cents to the wiki please do so. Eugene just want to post his stuff in his forum for what the other people mentioned. Which is his full right. And is still going to keep tabs on XDA as it is a good place to get together.

reuthermonkey said:
While it's unfortunate, it seems pretty necessary to me. It's impossible to continue to have all discussion on a particular ROM in a single thread. It makes it much harder to find bug reports, for example. So having your own forum and website dedicated to your own ROM makes sense.
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Ok, so maybe the xda mods need to show a bit more flexibility to better accommodate devs needs? Check either TW or Eugene's forums. Essentially, they replicate (nearly 1:1) the structure of xda vibrant sections. I understand that devs want more control over their threads and better organization. But it seems to me that it wouldn’t be that hard to implement the same right here:
A) create a separate sticky for each developer’s project
B) give devs certain mod rights within their threads
Again, I am certainly not against personal web sites, etc. And in no way am I trying to critisize the devs here (obviously it's their right to do whatever they feel like doing!). I am just trying to understand if xda is adopting to the situation. Maybe some small changes at xda can help to prevent the further devs fragmentation. I think nobody would want to see xda becoming just a hub for links to personal sites. Discussion, exchange of ideas, healthy competition (ok, this one may need to be put on hold for a while), comparative reviews like the one that swehes is doing are SO MUCH better when devs are actively participating.
EDIT: Actually, I suspect that if devs had a right to edit their own threads, some (if not most) conflicts would have never become public at the first place.

Devs that quit: who's to blame?

The thought popped up in my head this morning. I remembered Eugene, the developer of the Macnut ROM, who no longer supported XDA. Then another dev, jellette, that quit for reasons I can't quite understand. Who's to blame for these developers quitting the scene, or only providing ROMs on other sites?
I'm a 16 year old high school student in San Francisco. I've been lurking the forums ever since I got my Vibrant and my friend directed me here. I'm not at all new to hacks like these, I've been participating in communities and actions like these since I was 12. I never found a reason to become closely connected within this community, though. It's not a small group, it's a much larger one, and I don't have any place to fit in. This is one of my first posts, and it's one that I feel I need to share with the community: my thoughts and beliefs on the whole situation about devs that no longer support XDA or flat out quit.
Let's cover some ground first:
These devs are not paid. They make these ROMs, custom kernels, and other mods in their spare time. The only money they make off these ROMs comes from donations, and some devs don't ask for donations anyway.
The users are not paying for this work. The users don't need to give feedback, however they are permitted and allowed to comment, criticize, or help the developers in any way.
The trade made here is obviously unfair: give nothing, get something. In many cases, get a great piece of work for your phone that will make it blazing fast and give it features and functionality unheard of to other users of the same phone. The devs are ok with this though, as they freely release their work without a price tag.
However, there are some things devs are not ok with. I can't speak for each and every single developer, but having once done development in my own time as well, I can say the one thing that really aggravates all developers, and all people even, is when your work goes unnoticed, or worse yet, gets disrespected. When some bombarding, ignorant user comes along and rips apart your hard work, what are you to do? "This ROM is utterly horrible, you should've put more work into it before releasing this paperweight." Maybe a bit over the top, but it gets the point across, and it's from this that a developer will most likely quit XDA as he sees fit.
So what can we say about the users, the freeloaders? Some decency is expected of all of us, basically. That's the lesson every user should know: respect those that give you what you get. They're not robots that work endlessly with nothing better to do. These are people, hard working men and women who spend hours on end making software for you. Give them your respect. Constructive criticism is nice, but never go so far as to demote them as a person. If you want their respect, you must give them respect. Make them feel welcome and they will continue to work for the entire community. It's simple, human nature.
As for developers, are they in the right place to quit under these grounds? There is no set ground for quitting. Each person sees fit at what time he or she should quit working, in any case: as a dev, as an employee, as anyone. People need to know their limits, and they do know their limits. As a free working developer, they have a lot more liberty in deciding when they want to stop working for the community. Even someone who didn't feel accused or demoted could leave for no reason and it wouldn't affect them as much as if they had left their full-time paying job. This is not a source of revenue, it's not a source of anything, in fact.
One thing devs should know, and this is coming straight from me, is that as someone who releases work on the forums, your name will be known, and it's wise that you build a public image for yourself. Quitting without reason, without a post to describe your feelings, to express concerns or thoughts on the community or whatever else you'd like to mention, does not help build a good public image. You are at liberty to do as you please, that's your free choice, but people will judge you based on your actions. Throwing yourself into a position as such, as a chef, comes with more than just giving out work. It comes with the comments users will give you. It's good to be able to politically conduct yourself, to create a good public image, which will ultimately help you avoid the negative comments the public makes.
In conclusion:
Users: Be respectful, have some common decency. This is for all of us, not just those who don't get it. It's a rule we should all know. Developers are humans, just like us. Respect them as such.
Developers/chefs: You are free to do what you like. Quit as you please, continue as you please, no one will stop you. It is, however, important to make a good public image. Not necessary, but important. Conduct yourself in a political manner, because us users see you as a strong force, not just as a person. Be ready to make a good public image.
I want to know your thoughts on this. I feel it's important that this ground is covered, and that we come to a general consensus on this. The more you know, the better off you are. The more we all know, the better off we will all be.

if only there were more users like you.
I'm tired of these little immature kids making these hardworking devs leave the forum.

xriderx66 said:
if only there were more users like you.
I'm tired of these little immature kids making these hardworking devs leave the forum.
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I second that...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

I also think that those developing roms need to understand that a lot of members are teenagers that do not what respect is. I myself am 30yrs old and I know that there are more members that are much younger and very childish. The devs need to not take it out on the entire forum. There are more members that appreciate their work than there are that do not.

I agree with you 100% in partucular regarding the users.
I came to this forum looking for support, trying to get the GPS working on my Vibrant.
Before I posted or did anything I read many threads and researched what it meant to use Odin and to root the phone and flash a rom and to recover from a problem before I even started anything. When I did I was fully aware that I and I alone, was responsible for anything that happened to my phone. I am continually amazed at how some people jump in, without a clue as to what they are doing, then seem to try to blame the developers for their problems. Then you have the group who complain about colors or a boot animation or a "missing" app on a rom they got for free. Simply amazing the entitlement people have over something that someone puts out there for them to try to improve their phone for free.
I can understand how the devs could get fed up with these sorts of actions. It can take a pretty thick skin to deal with all the stuff I see going on here.

It is like a preschool in here...just get used to it.
Life will go on, and someone will always be making roms--herds are pathetic, individuals are lost inside said herds. Keep your ears open and your mouth shut.
My $0.02

No one but the Dev can pull their ROMs and leave. We all take criticism in life. Some run, some brush it off.

ScooterG said:
No one but the Dev can pull their ROMs and leave. We all take criticism in life. Some run, some brush it off.
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I agree to a point, just if anyone runs off Master I'm forming a mob with pitchforks and torches...

I have plenty of respect for the few guys who make a few useful programs, and I don't think I've ever bashed a dev's work openly. But:
ScooterG said:
No one but the Dev can pull their ROMs and leave. We all take criticism in life. Some run, some brush it off.
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/Twerd.
Gotta give respect to receive, and some devs just think they are God's gift to Captain Taco. It's the Internet - no one gets respect on the 'tubes. Who gives a ****. The growing up really neds to happen on the part of most of these "I'm pouty b/c someone said something crass about some weekend work I did" "developers."
Drewstein said:
I agree to a point, just if anyone runs off Master I'm forming a mob with pitchforks and torches...
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McMaster should shrink his huge sig. It's a symptom of my point: get over your self importance. There are (good) forums on the 'Net that enforce a 5-line or 100px tall rule (vs. his 300px +).
Again, not bashing the work, just the attitude, as presented.
-bZj

Agree ...........great post clear concise and to the point. Funny, that a 16 year old can articulate the basics of good behavior that most in here do not practice. I do not blame a lot of the devs leaving, people rag on their work give nothing but complaints..... as if they have the skill (yeah right).People will eagerly wait 10 min in a Starbucks line, pay 5.00 for a coffee and never donate to the dev, XDA or anything........then complain when the custom rom they got for free doesn't work the WAY they like or want......... talk about selfish irony...........
Great post !! kevipapo1 (from a guy old enough to be your grandpa )

i agree with it. people need to remember that without dev. we would all be running stock

If master leaves I'll suicide.
I hope ur reading this, master

Unfortunately this is the interwebz and this is has its been in any android forum I've ventured through. As you are young, but yet seem to be fairly wise, I say to you "welcome to the world my friend!"

Very good post.
Most criticism is from lack of knowledge/education. People don't understand how difficult it is to develop a ROM. So they criticise what they don't understand because it inconveniences them.
However, I will disagree somewhat with developer criticism. Although, I don't agree with the way Master handled the situation, I can relate.
I believe it is very important for us to realize that ROM developers are not public figures. They have the freedom to stop and start as they please. Their passion is development, after all, not public relations.
Kudos OP. Excellent post!
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

I just want to say thanks to all Developers here at XDA. Without you and your ROMS or tweaks i wouldn't have the great phone i have today that i spent my hard earned money on, and to the immature people if something doesn't work right on a ROM insted of being an ASS!!! and saying how crappy it is say whats wrong and they will fix it they have for me.
Again thanks to all who have helped you don't even know me but you all are ready to help at anytime day or night.
GARY

I personally am 15 and have been in xda since 13
I appreciate the devs for all their work if it wasn't for them i would have killed myself with many frustrations of a stock vibrant
I hate that some are immature and that some get really irritating i understand that some are new but some just get on nerves.
I wish eugene came back because he was.one of the first devs here
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

This is a great post & I echo the op's sentiments. This forum and the devs that contribute to it are a phenomenal resource to all of us and deserve to be treated with respect as we all do. The real shame is that a 16 yr old realizes this more than most of us adults (some of which are in name only). I've been in these forums for only a short time and the amount of immaturity, cynacism and deconstructive criticism I have seen is truly apalling and frankly I'm suprised more haven't bailed. I guess the Golden Rule isn't important when you've got the anonymity of the internet.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App

Lethal_NFS said:
I also think that those developing roms need to understand that a lot of members are teenagers that do not what respect is. I myself am 30yrs old and I know that there are more members that are much younger and very childish. The devs need to not take it out on the entire forum. There are more members that appreciate their work than there are that do not.
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Just because someone is childish does NOT mean that they are a child.
I've seen many adults that throw a tantrum worse than a 5 year old and many 5 year olds who act like they're going on 30.
Likely their age has nothing to do with it & its just a reflection of their random genetics and/or crappy parenting.
down8 said:
McMaster should shrink his huge sig. It's a symptom of my point: get over your self importance. There are (good) forums on the 'Net that enforce a 5-line or 100px tall rule (vs. his 300px +).
Again, not bashing the work, just the attitude, as presented.
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If its an issue, then xda should make a max image/sig size (like you mentioned other sites do). That simple.
Most of his signature tells you to search & read the XDA rules before posting, not really bad advice & since he has to answer questions from many people who don't do either, I can't really blame him.
It would be a LOT more aesthetically pleasing if it were text only, but since XDA allows it, I don't really have a problem with it.
Most of the devs have developed a bit of an attitude (I've seen it from Eugene, SomBionix, Master, and a few others) because of the crap they have to deal with & XDA not enforcing their own rules (this is supposed to have changed after the town hall meeting).

i have been on xda since 2005, left came back etc etc, i do minor edits and coding here and there for myself because i dont have the time like these other people. but honestly most people need to get over themselves. this is a strong community and will live on without you. that said this community has made some people millionaires and others just brats who want the limelight. the idea behind this site is to take the software into our own hands. its us vs. corporations. if devs want to leave cool stfu about it and go but keep in mind that unless you have a contributed to the community dont complain about someones work. devs know what come when you start producing products. its the same that companys deal with. most leave because they get their feelings hurt. its not like people are stalking you and breaking your kneecaps because angry birds wouldnt play during their lunchbreak. ignore the negative and stay or wine and leave. but this place or any place wont change. the more successful you get the harder your skin must be

About me and why it all got under my skin.
James / jellette / Heathen
39 year old, married, father of 3
<Edited out line, too personal>
I look around and see Darky, Doc, Jim, Eugene, TW and everyone else doing Gingerbread clones - and they aren't called "Copy Cat" - but when I do it I am. That makes a guy pretty darn mad.
I set out to do the latest Rom 100% from scratch without drawing from the work of any existing Rom specifically because of my relationship with TW. The takers out there have no idea how much work goes into doing that.
Here was and continues to be the process with PepperKake.
1. Download the JL5 Rom from samfirmware.com
2. Odin to get a feel for the new firmware.
3. Rip the files from factoryfs.rfs
4. Release the first flashable Odexed recovery safe JL5 by 30 minutes
5. Deodex the apps and jars - on this build I was unsuccessful deodexing swype and I used krylon360's swype and credited him for that.
6. Download the Nexus S dump
7. Pull all of the images I needed out of framework-res.apk and SystemUi.apk and the original bootanimation.zip and the icon out of every matching Gingerbread app
8. Carefully build the theme, re-mod the Gingerbread Launcher and create the faux crt shutdown sequence.
9. Rip the gps files from the Nexus S dump including permissions for gps and maps and restructure JL5 to call these files
10. Replace with 3E recovery, ensure the sdcard mounts, etc..
11. Flash and fix 219 times until it is 99% bug free and ready for an Alpha release.
As you can see, this is not a weekend cooked rom as put earlier in the thread.
I update my roms usually once a day until it is complete, I fulfill requests for kernel flash packs for the rom, etc..
I did get pretty angry and pulled my roms - I later replaced the most recent rom. I also set up my website as a backup, which is quickly becoming my primary release source. I will stay around xda though like it or not.
On those who have followed me to the new site in support: Thank you.
Finally, a very short word on TW.
I have nothing but respect for these guys. I learned everything from them.
And that is my word on this.

reinstatement of developer status

to the moderators xda. what is developer? it is some1 who takes something and strides and makes it better hence Dorimanx. why was his status as dev taken away?
i know the argument is that he took parts from other members and improved upon them, but hey isnt that what every 1 that has developer status on xda has done? no dev on this site has created or builta rim for our hd2s on their own tyrung, raphiga etc etc they have all taken something that was originally googles and improved upon it whether sense, gingerbread or ics. they have taken improved code from other devs or google and made changes to it. or have taken roms from devs that stopped working on them and improved them.
So why then were their developer status not removed?????
if that is the case then no 1 on xda are really developers they are all senior members.
and if as u claim they are regonised developers then u as moderators of xda have no option in my opinion but to REINSTATE DEVELOPER STATUS TO DORIMANX............
if not then you in all conscience have to take away DEVELOPER STATUS FROM ALL DEVS ON XDA.

... +1 ... it's a shame ...

+1 but there is usually more to these stories than appears.
Sent from my HTC HD2 using xda premium

Maybe it has something to do with Dorimanx calling the kernal his own..!
Everyone uses things created by others but give credit.
But who am I to say maybe it is completely his own.
I did like his roms though..

shanman-2 said:
Maybe it has something to do with Dorimanx calling the kernal his own..!
Everyone uses things created by others but give credit.
But who am I to say maybe it is completely his own.
I did like his roms though..
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all kernel devs do same u dont see teds+gingers+coles3.1.1kernel just the name of who publishes kernel and compiles it together not the name of devs who solved and wrote code for different snippits used in kernel yet they still keep dev status and quite frankly a lot of those devs can be quite obnoxious, rude and contempious and not answer questions unlike dorimanx who always answers and tries to solve problems for us.
UNLIKE THE MODERATORS WHO DEEM THAT THEY DONT HAVE TO ANSWER ANYTHING AND NOW SEEM TO BE A LAW ONTO THEMSELVES!!!!!!

maddoc1007 said:
to the moderators xda. what is developer? it is some1 (someone) who takes something and strides and makes it better hence Dorimanx. why was his status as dev taken away?
i know the argument is that he took parts from other members and improved upon them, but hey isnt that what every 1 (everyone) that has developer status on xda has done? no dev on this site has created or builta (built a)rim (rom) for our hd2s on their own tyrung, raphiga etc etc they have all taken something that was originally googles (Google's) and improved upon it whether sense, gingerbread or ics. they have taken improved code from other devs or google and made changes to it. or have taken roms from devs that stopped working on them and improved them.
So why then were their developer status not removed?????
if that is the case then no 1 on xda are really developers they are all senior members.
and if as u (you) claim they are regonised developers then u (you) as moderators of xda have no option in my opinion but to REINSTATE DEVELOPER STATUS TO DORIMANX............
if not then you in all conscience have to take away DEVELOPER STATUS FROM ALL DEVS ON XDA.
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Really? Well... What if I told you why it was removed. There is more to life than the HD2 forum, and in this case, there were issues in the Galaxy S 2 forum, pertaining to making unfounded and false allegations against another developer.
At XDA we ask people to be respectful to each other, particularly anyone with a developer title. In this case, going around making false (and very serious) allegations against other developers is NOT acceptable. For this reason it was revoked, although a user subject to this can appeal and it will be dealt with suitably.

gazzacbr said:
+1 but there is usually more to these stories than appears.
Sent from my HTC HD2 using xda premium
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Correct.

maddoc1007 said:
all kernel devs do same u dont see teds+gingers+coles3.1.1kernel just the name of who publishes kernel and compiles it together not the name of devs who solved and wrote code for different snippits used in kernel yet they still keep dev status and quite frankly a lot of those devs can be quite obnoxious, rude and contempious and not answer questions unlike dorimanx who always answers and tries to solve problems for us.
UNLIKE THE MODERATORS WHO DEEM THAT THEY DONT HAVE TO ANSWER ANYTHING AND NOW SEEM TO BE A LAW ONTO THEMSELVES!!!!!!
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May I ask how we are a law unto ourselves? We do answer to you (reply within 24 hours to your question is pretty good going), and I have explained the circumstances above.

pulser_g2 said:
Really? Well... What if I told you why it was removed. There is more to life than the HD2 forum, and in this case, there were issues in the Galaxy S 2 forum, pertaining to making unfounded and false allegations against another developer.
At XDA we ask people to be respectful to each other, particularly anyone with a developer title. In this case, going around making false (and very serious) allegations against other developers is NOT acceptable. For this reason it was revoked, although a user subject to this can appeal and it will be dealt with suitably.
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So, from what I gather from both your reply, and this from dorimanx:
"""there was an small war with one more dev.
i was wrong about my clame.
and got insolted many time, from him and his friends, i have apologise, after i found i was wrong, but my title just removed"""
is that he said something in the wrong, then the person he wrongly called out, instead of solving the issue reasonably both him and his friends laid down a **** storm of insults and what-not (I assume here there was equally insulting return-fire), after finding out he was in the wrong, he apologized, but his title was still removed...
am I correct in assuming that none of the persons involved on the other side even got warning? (after-all, I got a warning because someone said something was not possible many times and I not-so-polity told them to bugger off... and then a week later what I requested was posted in the developer section....)
also can I assume that he can appeal his title revocation? he states after-all he did apologize, and he is after-all ACTUALLY a developer with much praise and admiration for his works...
Why not a warning instead of title pull? or temp ban or something? Telling a dev he isnt a dev is a bit more then insulting if you ask me...
*This is going on just what you both have said, if you wished to add more information to the pot, or point out the fiasco for others to read to understand better, I am all for it, but what I have written above is just from my reading both your and his statements on the subject... and despite the "you weren't involved, dont say anything" montra that presents itself when I choose to post this, I have long thought he deserved his Dev title... (especially since hes been given it once before... even though that was a community wide mistake)

Hammerfest said:
So, from what I gather from both your reply, and this from dorimanx:
"""there was an small war with one more dev.
i was wrong about my clame.
and got insolted many time, from him and his friends, i have apologise, after i found i was wrong, but my title just removed"""
is that he said something in the wrong, then the person he wrongly called out, instead of solving the issue reasonably both him and his friends laid down a **** storm of insults and what-not (I assume here there was equally insulting return-fire), after finding out he was in the wrong, he apologized, but his title was still removed...
am I correct in assuming that none of the persons involved on the other side even got warning? (after-all, I got a warning because someone said something was not possible many times and I not-so-polity told them to bugger off... and then a week later what I requested was posted in the developer section....)
also can I assume that he can appeal his title revocation? he states after-all he did apologize, and he is after-all ACTUALLY a developer with much praise and admiration for his works...
Why not a warning instead of title pull? or temp ban or something? Telling a dev he isnt a dev is a bit more then insulting if you ask me...
*This is going on just what you both have said, if you wished to add more information to the pot, or point out the fiasco for others to read to understand better, I am all for it, but what I have written above is just from my reading both your and his statements ont he subject....
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There's more to the issue than that.
In order to properly investigate the claim, I did what any developer would do upon seeing that claim - take the original sources he made the allegation against, and then rebuild them from scratch, testing ONLY the change alleged to cause the issues.
This is a fundamental and basic step, and it demonstrated there was no issue with the sources being posted by the other developer.
I'd ask you, is it acceptable to go around making inflammatory remarks and comments against another developer, ACCUSING them of breaking the GPL (when in fact they are adhering to it beyond what is even required, pushing commits that are not released yet)? What if someone did that to your preferred developer? Wouldn't this be a thread of "OMG STRIP HIM OF HIS TITLE, HE INSULTED OUR FAVOURITE DEV"?
There was ample chance given to resolve the issue amicably, and the accusatory tone used against another developer was not acceptable. Furthermore, missing out on fundamental steps such as checking your own allegations out fully (by testing with clean, unmodified builds) is quite fundamental.
I did say he can appeal it, and he has contacted me with regard to that, and it will be dealt with in due course.
I'm surprised at you asking about that though - would you rather we temp ban him? I somehow don't think many people would agree with you.
Finally on regard to "telling a dev he isn't a dev", that is not what RD is about - RD is about the best examples of professional standard developers on XDA. If your conduct is not inkeeping with what is tolerated in the open source community (which is what this is), then you should not be a Recognized Developer. It's a privilege, not a right. And not every developer has it (many do not wish to have it, and have declined to apply even when suggested). It's something that's open to apply for, but people must be at the required level of skills and act in the right manner. If either of these changes, then their status can be reviewed.

re re reinstatement of dev to dorimanx
i have read the explanation from pulser but am somewhat dismayed by his reply shots were fired it seems from both sides, rude or derogatory they may have been but an apology was issued by dorimanx. my amusement stems from why when other devs on xda rant and rave at members for asking questions and call them stupid or thick and other inflamatory remarks you do not take their dev status from them
A we ask people to be respectful to each other, particularly anyone with a developer title.
your words above but yet iv not seen u or other moderators reprimanding those devs or taking their titles of them.
. If your conduct is not inkeeping with what is tolerated in the open source community (which is what this is), then you should not be a Recognized Developer.
more of your words but i have seen from thdeads on here the way ordinary decent people on here are treated and disrespected maybe their english is not too good or they are new and dont know their way around xda or maybe a threas is a few hundred pages long and they cant find what they are looking for and they ask a question. then lo and behold a dev tells them they are 2 stupid to look or too ignorant to.find it themselves or other worse remarks. is that not being disrespctful and NOT FOLLOWING YOUR CODE OF CONDUCT. yet ye take no action against them? as a result of the way people are insulted on here iv seen in threads where membera have said that they are leaving xda over the insults to them. so where were the moderators then and. why werent those devs titles taken??. read through your dev threads and you will see plenty of examples of this.
therefore it is not an even playing field for members here on xda and os if you want to throw me off xda so be it but until you clean up your act on xda you cant make 1 law for some and another law for others

pulser_g2 said:
There's more to the issue than that.
In order to properly investigate the claim, I did what any developer would do upon seeing that claim - take the original sources he made the allegation against, and then rebuild them from scratch, testing ONLY the change alleged to cause the issues.
This is a fundamental and basic step, and it demonstrated there was no issue with the sources being posted by the other developer.
1 ) I'd ask you, is it acceptable to go around making inflammatory remarks and comments against another developer, ACCUSING them of breaking the GPL (when in fact they are adhering to it beyond what is even required, pushing commits that are not released yet)? What if someone did that to your preferred developer? Wouldn't this be a thread of "OMG STRIP HIM OF HIS TITLE, HE INSULTED OUR FAVOURITE DEV"?
There was ample chance given to resolve the issue amicably, and the accusatory tone used against another developer was not acceptable. Furthermore, missing out on fundamental steps such as checking your own allegations out fully (by testing with clean, unmodified builds) is quite fundamental.
I did say he can appeal it, and he has contacted me with regard to that, and it will be dealt with in due course.
2 ) I'm surprised at you asking about that though - would you rather we temp ban him? I somehow don't think many people would agree with you.
Finally on regard to "telling a dev he isn't a dev", that is not what RD is about - RD is about the best examples of professional standard developers on XDA. If your conduct is not inkeeping with what is tolerated in the open source community (which is what this is), then you should not be a Recognized Developer. It's a privilege, not a right. And not every developer has it (many do not wish to have it, and have declined to apply even when suggested). It's something that's open to apply for, but people must be at the required level of skills and act in the right manner. If either of these changes, then their status can be reviewed.
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1: TBQH, if a dev came into the dev thread for dori's HD2, and pulled the same thing, and then WE as users and HIM as a developer played the whole two year old fighting game, you can bet your arse I would expect you to put everyone on "time-out" that fired off "conduct not inkeeping" with the expected conduct of the open source community (as you put it), dori and any of us users that participated as well! Additionally, I wouldn't request a title be stripped, because to the users of XDA as a whole, RD might as well just be D, and lets face it, I see far more users here then developers. However as I said, even if one was at fault, if both sides where participating in the argument and insults and "bad conduct", I MYSELF would still punish both sides, even a warning is still more tactful then removal of a title and normally a warning shunts people before it would warrant a ban or title revocation.
2: It was a suggestion made "in passing", and sometimes, people need a few days or even a week to cool down, but your right, not many people would agree with me, but it was throwing out something other then removing a title that IMHO at least, has been deserved by dori for the longest time...
Im not ignoring the rest of your comment btw, I am not a developer, but I am a user and a PC Builder/Tech both as a hobby and a job, and I advocate "full wipes" or "clean testing environments" whenever I play with new rom's, fix issues on customers computers, or even encounter error's myself, so I see the fault in calling out an issue, prior to a "scrub test" as I like to call it myself, and i kinda went into the RD issue in 1: so ill leave it at that
maddoc1007 said:
i have read the explanation from pulser but am somewhat dismayed by his reply shots were fired it seems from both sides, rude or derogatory they may have been but an apology was issued by dorimanx. my amusement stems from why when other devs on xda rant and rave at members for asking questions and call them stupid or thick and other inflamatory remarks you do not take their dev status from them
A we ask people to be respectful to each other, particularly anyone with a developer title.
your words above but yet iv not seen u or other moderators reprimanding those devs or taking their titles of them.
. If your conduct is not inkeeping with what is tolerated in the open source community (which is what this is), then you should not be a Recognized Developer.
more of your words but i have seen from thdeads on here the way ordinary decent people on here are treated and disrespected maybe their english is not too good or they are new and dont know their way around xda or maybe a threas is a few hundred pages long and they cant find what they are looking for and they ask a question. then lo and behold a dev tells them they are 2 stupid to look or too ignorant to.find it themselves or other worse remarks. is that not being disrespctful and NOT FOLLOWING YOUR CODE OF CONDUCT. yet ye take no action against them? as a result of the way people are insulted on here iv seen in threads where membera have said that they are leaving xda over the insults to them. so where were the moderators then and. why werent those devs titles taken??. read through your dev threads and you will see plenty of examples of this.
therefore it is not an even playing field for members here on xda and os if you want to throw me off xda so be it but until you clean up your act on xda you cant make 1 law for some and another law for others
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you make a good point, and I hope the mod reads it, I have seen many dev's for rom's and mods who definitely don't follow any "code of conduct" I have ever heard of, but I have NEVER (and I stress this in only my experience as a User of but a few ROM's) seen a user have his/hers title revoked, and I used to follow links and frequently browse XDA before I registered...
Now in saying that, its possible its due to a lack of "report"ing occurring, and with the latest fiasco regarding the E3D people have become "report" crazy and if it proves true, I should expect to see more "RD" and other "higher then senior member" accounts demoted
Ive noted before, Ill note again, I "assume" things being ok with making an ass out of myself, its part of the learning process, and I have to thank the mod for replying to me/us and taking the time to help us out as supporters of the user turned dev demoted user instead of outright closing the thread. Oh, and I am just a USER... dont taze me bro... (im a bit drunk, forgive me, I just had to...)

The biggest part of being a big open source community, or any community for that matter, is collaborating and the ability to tolerate mistakes. If nobody makes mistakes than the community is not evolving since there is nobody participating.
That being said, the bad blood which came across both Dorimanx and the other developer is a part of an active community, and it has been proven to be the only way somebody can truly learn; this is the main reason you have authority (moderators) present.
IMO stripping one user from his title but leaving the other is unfair prejudice, its like saying, "you were both wrong in your act, but he was wrong-er".
As a moderator, I suggest you ask yourself what is your message to the community, do you want more people participating but in a mannered, polite way or do you want people being afraid to challenge somebody?
As I see it, if you came here to learn, you ought to make mistakes; its a collaborative effort not a memorial for those who already know "everything" and came here to boost their ego, or am I wrong?

As a Retired Senior Mod and since i was involved in Dorinmax issue, i could say more about but this will be not fair against XDA, period.
XDA have rules and you are expected to follow them even if you are ERd, RD, RT, RC or a Mod, you cannot use a pubblic thread to make accuses, troll or to partecipate in a flaming war hence you will be punished with infraction points and/or ban and this happened in that case but yet i disagree with easy titles revoking and as said here, many other so called devs should be without the title.
The moral of the story is: When you have a problem or if you see any issue, contact you Forum Specific Moderator or any Senior Moderator, these people are doing a great job and they are always ready to help or to suggest how to address the problem in the better way.

maddoc1007 said:
to the moderators xda. what is developer? it is some1 who takes something and strides and makes it better hence Dorimanx. why was his status as dev taken away?
i know the argument is that he took parts from other members and improved upon them, but hey isnt that what every 1 that has developer status on xda has done? no dev on this site has created or builta rim for our hd2s on their own tyrung, raphiga etc etc they have all taken something that was originally googles and improved upon it whether sense, gingerbread or ics. they have taken improved code from other devs or google and made changes to it. or have taken roms from devs that stopped working on them and improved them.
So why then were their developer status not removed?????
if that is the case then no 1 on xda are really developers they are all senior members.
and if as u claim they are regonised developers then u as moderators of xda have no option in my opinion but to REINSTATE DEVELOPER STATUS TO DORIMANX............
if not then you in all conscience have to take away DEVELOPER STATUS FROM ALL DEVS ON XDA.
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Thanks man, you have stirred a bit o' thought.......
Sent from my HTC HD2 using xda premium

Looking again at this thread..do not politics come into everything that's worth talking about!
Sent from my Nexus One using xda premium

shanman-2 said:
Looking again at this thread..do not politics come into everything that's worth talking about!
Sent from my Nexus One using xda premium
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thats the crux of it all no wonder so many great developers have left xda!!

Such is life in the virtual world and the real world ta boot .. .LOL,
Sent from my Nexus One using xda premium

Let's support people in learning.

Guys, recent developments in the Dev forums are driving away young developers. Sure, currently, they might not be able to do much more than cook a rom, but I've used a few of those roms and for months they were a good alternative to miui. Everyone needs to start somewhere.
Sure, mistakes were made in giving props, and maybe they don't quite understand what xda fundamentally is just yet, but to start bashing them once we realized that some other developer on a different forum was able to deliver a solid cm12.1 build was rather distasteful. I would have liked for us to nurture this guy who has clearly spent a lot of time on rom development already, and could have potentially make great contributions in the future.
My 2c.
Sent from my Redmi Note 2 using Tapatalk

+1, I agree... I understand the perspective of both sides, but too bad it could not have been worked out privately instead of publicly bashing each other.

I agree it is best to build not destroy
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I also found it very childish the sort of tactics you would expect from big companies like Apple.
If it was a cooked rom with some tweaks for whatever then what is the problem just get the person to state this and people can choose if they want to use it or not.
Just noticed the guy we are talking about has had to make his own board private now with people going over there and moaning.

I don't want to just be a "me too" on this topic, so I will add another point. I do cook ROMs myself occasionally, to make them what I would prefer them to be from the start. I have often wondered whether I should share my "work". Yes, it is work, and it takes a lot of time that one could spend doing gainfully something else, and it is risky, because I have bricked my devices many times in the process of cooking ROMs. I have shared some of my "work" in the past, but, given what has just transpired here, I think I will keep my work to myself in future. Even though some may benefit from it, life is too short to be taking online abuse.

Lesson learned. You can bashing whoever you want if you 'smart enough' or 'serious dev fanboy'.
Keep Bashinnggg... Yeaaay..

I agree. Now we have no dev / cooker / what the f$&% you want anymore on xda. That's only because some users think always bad instead of motivate young 'ROM workers'.
So now this very stupid people are invited to open a new thread to index original developers works, as we don't know Chinese in order to get a fuc++ng ROM from chinese web sites.
And, please, stop to be so strong with other people... Life won't be always easy as it is behind of a screen.

I'm not up to speed about what's happening around here, but looking at the dev section, I understand who the "dev" in question is. But what exactly happened?
Edit: never mind, found it.
Sent from my Redmi Note 2