Typical scenario is;
v 0.1 based on this and that.
v 0.2 changed launcher, added ringtones
v 0.3 new wallpapers, added ram script
v 0.4 added new market, added google+
Excuse me!?! This is not development. This is stealing!
I think these people should just wank instead of copy/pasting. Would be more beneficial for both public and themselves.
Rant over.
Thank you.
calyxim said:
Typical scenario is;
v 0.1 based on this and that.
v 0.2 changed launcher, added ringtones
v 0.3 new wallpapers, added ram script
v 0.4 added new market, added google+
Excuse me!?! This is not development. This is stealing!
I think these people should just wank instead of copy/pasting. Would be more beneficial for both public and themselves.
Rant over.
Thank you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, but if credit is given to original devs you can't really call it "stealing" cause Android is OSP after all...I'm no dev myself but it does seem many ROMs available are CM tweaks achievable with a few market downloads or simply AOSP with extra's...however sometimes certain ROMs begin as "Zip developments" and get later support with real devs and change fundamental features (kernels, code-base etc.) so it's not all bad...
Totally agree..........
But it's not the actual non-development of new roms that is getting on my nerves the most, its the constant *****ing and arguing through lack of understanding different languages etc etc..........
All i have to say is read the threads carefully as i've noticed some people who don't speak english very well get the hump on as they don't understand clearly what people are saying.
I know i've had my rants in some of these threads before and i don't blame anyone else for doing it too. I've managed to restrain myself the last few weeks as our arguments are falling on deaf ears so whats the point, i'll just ignore the idiots making fools out of themselves by bringing us stuff we've already had for a long time and stick to what i know best.
What you've said is true Scratch...even if the ROM cookers do bring something new often nobody knows what that new stuff is because of the poor English. I'm not trying to insult them but I would recommend, especially with a specialized thing such as compiling/ making a ROM, the English needs to be clear and concise so everyone knows what is being released, what changes have been made and what's been modified. More often than not, as you say Scratch, people get upset because of a misunderstanding. Maybe those struggling with the language can consult friends/devs and ask exactly how to express something they've done in their ROM so everybody is clear on what's happening.
Scratch0805 said:
...I've managed to restrain myself the last few weeks...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, I have got quite a lot to say over this entire fiasco over the Android 4.0 "ports" and "source builds" that is currently playing out in the dev zone like a long dragging soap opera, but, its just not worth it, so, just let them argue over themselves who is first and who is the true dev and what not. Besides, it's not a good feeling when these Zip Devs accuse you of various stuffs when you speak out against them. It's extremely childish and irritating to read those posts, but I guess it can't be helped. Zip developers are not a localized phenomenon, they are everywhere, and since Android and ROMs like Cyanogenmod are Open Source, we have nothing to say, and have to live with it.
There's another new phenomenon which is playing out and can be seen on pretty much every ROM. Someone gets a ROM to boot / work at a basic level, create a thread and build up major hype and hoopla on it, and EVERYONE of these "devs" proclaim "I need help to do this and do that./..... bla bla bla". Zip dev is not such a big issue per se, but, the level of intellect is terribly low among the "devs". I believe most of them are what? 12-13 year olds, and, they act their age perfectly, unlike someone like Jacob.
/End Rant
Case in point, after Arco has announced his intentions and the fact he already has a working port in progress:
I was first, it was my idea, I continue and basta.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Enough said.
Ahah, doing small things for the buzz (pun intended), acquiring a fame in trolland
Lol, I've made myself clear on this too.
" the ability to read is good,
the ability to understand what you've read is great "
http://www.androidpolice.com/2011/1...om-developers-i-think-we-need-to-have-a-talk/
3xeno said:
dragging soap opera.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't you mean aosp opera? Hehe...okay, I'll stop with the bad jokes.
And I fully agree with the topic. Anyone can open up any rom .zip paste in some apps, reflash and repackage it as your own.
Agree with this. Sadly I'm one of the offenders, that will have a moan at people developing zip-roms. I accept that this isnt the greatest way to deal with people on forums like theese. But it seems the only good way to get my point across to people that aren't that great at english.
Although, I must add one thing. I've seen roms get tossed around the development forums like mad. It seems to go like this in the dev. forums.
People create a booting rom. Or compile a new one.
People add a few fixes, someone creates a spin off.
Original dev discontinues rom, other 'developers' ask to continue it, even when they have projects in hand.
Someone picks up the pieces months later. After even the re-contiuned rom is given up with.
People spin roms off from there.
All i can say is dear god. I have been reading all that threads last few days and i was frapped how people are shalow in glorifying them selves and their so called development skills. I didnt want to coment anything cauze i have run into such argument once before with someone who was constantly refusing to understand what i am saying and i dont want to do it again, so i leave my thoughts here.
So people should get on the ground for change and start doing something usefull instead of make dozen threads, first when you dig something, than another one when you are asking if it can be done and finaly one when you "do" something. What they have done is nothing. They are just thanks chasers. In last few days there were more new roms than it was for whole Wildfire lifetime.
I remember tje days when there was just three or four roms and they worked, you hear me, they worked. So stop posting such s**t unles u did something that is realy worth it.
Sent from my HTC Wildfire using xda premium
Yes you are right, zip development is horrible. Lately there has been a major rise in "new" roms that have been hitting the development thread. I swear I have seen at least 5 to 10 roms all based on CM7 or oxygen. And what's different? It's "fast and stable" "Is themed to look like ICS" "Has a script that I actually don't know what it does but it must do something good". And its "my" rom because I grabbed a rom.zip from a device that runs oxygen smoothly and added the boot.img and the build prop right from the CM7 rom.zip and then cooked it and I posted it under MY account so its MY rom. There is a problem though, my genius copy/paste skills on my computer that took forever to build up are limited to actually being able to fix problems with things like Bluetooth and GPS, etc. So what do I do then? Hell I request "help" to fix the problems and once a genius like acro or another real dev comes in and fixes it for me, I take the fix and say it was all MY work. AOSP stands for ANDROID OPEN SOURCE PROJECT. The source is open to anyone that can use linux terminal (that's half the problem). The other problem is that no one could be bothered taking the time to actually learn a skill. They want to do something now, and now only. They won't spend hours and days learning how to program in java or C because it takes "too long" and just wants to begin this so called "deving" now. This is a rant about zip development, but wait you say, I do .zip development though? Yes I do, but what I am talking about is .zip development that is based on a .zip that is actually OPEN SOURCE. If something is OPEN SOURCE there is no point in taking a compiled .zip and "porting it" to our device. You do this because its easy for you to hit download and copy and paste, but you don't "have the time" to setup a download of the source and compile it to a rom. Zip development that is for CLOSED SOURCE on the other hand is way different. HTC, MIUI, etc. are all roms that have no open source code so all the work has to be done based on a .zip. Since the code is not available this is the only option. This in my opinion is the only kind of good .zip development since there is no source to build from. I would love to download the source and mess around with the ICS source and try to compile something but my computer is got really bad specs and my internet is so slow. I will just leave that kind of work to acro and the real devs
I agree with this. Looking through the more recent Wildfire ROMS, I can see a pattern for most. So, I have started to come up with a fight back, for individuality and mostly, for a better mobile experience. It would mean a lot if you could help me out with THIS.
Sorry to ask in this thread, but I thought it might be a good idea
Before I get accused of zipfile developing, I only compiled an edited kernel for the ROM to allow touchscreen to work a little.
I am not a "zipfile" developer and I am not going to be, my interest is in kernels.
I happened to come to xda at the wrong time, first thing kaassaus did was ask me to follow a tutorial to get touchscreen working (which took all of 20 seconds).
I think posting an ICS zip is okay FOR NOW because there is no OPEN source for the wildfire for it, and Arco is NOT breaking the GPL because he hasn't redistributed it yet.
Sent from my HTC Wildfire
We are not accusing anyone. My point is dev section is not a learning section. Those who want to learn development can pop into chefs section instead of releasing a rom with 2 zillion bugs.
There is a reason for this forum is not called xda-tweakers. Because our devs are devs. They are not steve jobs like tweakers.
2nd rant over. Class dismissed
Okay, Zip development is not so bad, actualy is needed in some points. For flashing kernels or some other things. But look at some of that AOSP-fast and stable roms. What do they bring us? Nothing. It is just repacked CM nightly or stable. To "develop" such rom you need WinZip and in best case Android SDK if they decide to decompile and recompile few apps instead of treating them with winzip too to change few icons and voila, NEW ROM. Better yet someome will take any theme and implement it into framework.And he will be so proud because his rom has diferent look. What else we can still expect is ES file explorer instead of OI, Miui galery, themed keyborad, different font and unforgetable scripts which do god knows what. They are the main part. Is that a rom? No it isn't my dear friends. Its a disrespect to any real developer here. All that we already have. We have themes, we have scripts we have everything that flashable and we dont need another yet ****y rom to tell us what is fast and stable.
Sent from my HTC Wildfire using xda premium
I don't find anything wrong in updating an already present ROM's with new applications update ,... even though i must say there is a trend in past few weeks that lot of ROM's in buzz section were merely identical and there was no development in them
I was browsing the old threads of the Dev Zone, and came on this:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=884659
Amazing, right? It's deja vu all over again.. (PS - Don't bump that please. lol)
I am a noob, and I know I will never be as experienced as other developers.
That is why I do not develop ROMs, and develop things I am good at.
Related
OK guys... I think it's time to have a coming-to-Jesus (or buddha, or Mohamed, or Spaghettimonster) moment. Over many months I have downloaded lots of Roms, followed progress here and there... and quite frankly my opinion is THIS PLACE HERE NEEDS TO GROW UP.
THE PROBLEM
----------------
I mean it's great that everyone and their grandmother can express their creativity by bringing out Roms, by using test releases, adding a few themes and call them stable, by taking dogs and call them fast.
FACT is, most ROMs SUCK, most are unstable don't make it past a few weeks, they start out fast but come to a screeching halt. Or a week in you notice that wifi doenst work, or alarm, or gmail or voice... or gmail works, but you can't send emails... and you'd don't find out until one week later when you really need that feature (at least those of us here who work)
At the end of the day the Roms here are for the most part BS... mine is longer than yours, I am faster then you, I am a pony or not, or stupidfast or or just superfast or superD or fastest or fasttest ...WHATEEVER.. I'd bet that 90% of regular users stop by once, flash a few roms then just get ultimately annoyed by the prepubescent J.O. session.....without any goal or direction or common goal...
THE SOLUTION
----------------
So this place needs to grow up. HOW, well for a start adopt open source dev. principles. Instead of every 12 year old kid with a keyboard releasing their own orgasmicallyfast and ultimaterock stable rom, how about having a few development TREES.
Have different trees, that focus on FAST, STABLE, FUNCTIONAL. Or some mix that is clearly defined in a mission statement. Then have people commit improvements, changes to those trees and have official releases that would actually bring each tree further and add improvements. Have the most respected devs. manage those trees while all the newby devs contribute. Make contributions, being the creator of X or Y be the thing to be known for, not the "being creative in coming up with some dumb rom name".
Why, well it works in the opensource community, and if you look at that model, you'd actually see commercial companies entering the picture, sponsoring developments, donating code, paying salaries of developers, and with the option that some of the best devs. here actually can make a living of the work that is done here. Right now there's so much bs going on, a few minor things are real improvements, a lot is just cosmetic, same thing over with a new label or new mix
With the current situation devs spend hours and hours without the remotest chance that this work is taken seriously by the industry. Do you think they go and flash 100 rom's and test'em all to figure out what works.
Also what is better, to have 1000 Roms out there each used by 1000 people, or 10 used by millions.. in fact it would be a lot more. You'd find more mainstream users using the Rom's and you'd find the industry taking a look and things would move forward, there's evolution.
FINAL WORDS
Sorry to interrupt that happy kumbaya session here, and I am sure I'll get lots of hate/fu comments.. which quite frankly I don't care about - I'll just ignore you.
This is an idea, I want some of the leaders here to think about. Taking this mess and unite devs to actually contribute to some meaningful path forward, that is documented, has a standard, and people and eventually the hardware industry or telecoms or 2nd users (often in developing countries) can rely on, rather than being the side-freak show it is now, mostly created by all the 3rd rate devs that just remix while the people that really make progress are being flooded by the all the garbage out there...
Do whatever you wanna do with this comment... if this ends up being some angry comments flame war thread.. I'll just not gonna come back to it...and if no one sees my point.. then well, feel free to keep dwelling your nice little ecosystem here... and just dream about what this could be... for now I'll move on to my faster android device.. so long everyone.. and would be great if at least a fraction here would agree...
UPDATE:
How about having 2 sections. One for official ROMS - Have the community pick a handfull of ROMs. Each one needs to fulfill a basic set of requirements in regards to bug management/reporting, documentation (including credits), supervision (someone in charge approving code/additions). Also each ROM should have a mission statement as what the goal is of the ROM: f.e. stable and fast, or HERO, or Eclair, or max features, or keeping up with latest Android, etc. The goal is people can read the purpose/strategy/mission of each rom and decide which ROM they want to use and support (also financially) and keep track off. Each ROM needs to have 2 or 3 lead devs in charge.. so if one leaves that continuation is not an issue. If I can follow one Rom and use it for months.. I am much more willing to contribute $ then continually having to jump ship because of abandoned Roms...
If we would structure things this way, the leads for each of those main Roms, likely can live on this part time, we'd get dedicated people, and continuous progress, and results people can use... and it would open the development work to a more mainstream audience...
Cool story, bro.
lol.. your probably gonna get flamed....
but, the thing is they are "PORTING" roms that are not made for the G1/MT3G, most dev's are posting them as "unstable" or "experimental". The problem is that the users are expecting too much. The time it took you to write up all that could have been used to post bug reports.
I agree tho, that there needs to be more centralization with bug reports, more team work involved. Cyanogen and his buddies are doing a great job, I hope the other dev's can learn to work with him, contribute to his builds etc...
Also if your flashing rom's like crazy, its probably a hobby, if you want stable go back to stock and unroot your device
CaptainShanks said:
Cool story, bro.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
quoted for lulz
Bravo! Something that needed to be said since I stopped coming here 5 months ago because of all the bs. Facts are as simple as 4.0.4 was the best g1 roms and most stable since.. well ever. Every rom released since has in my opinion sucked HARD. I've flashed every single freaking one released and I've been visually impressed.. cause the themes are cool.. but i've been slow, and crashing apk's constantly. I don't like where the rom community is going. I believe all themed roms should be put into the Theme section and all of them marked unstable. and all the offical roms posted here. I'd even stretch and say this is one of the reasons Cyanogen removed his threads here. He knows his stuff needs more work and didn't want it here until it was ready. But kids and linking his work and messing around cause they're wannabe programmers and really ruining this site... I'm done ranting but kudo's Alec well said.
I'm hoping Froyo w/JIT comes to the G1/MT3G, Cyanogen will probably be the first with a froyo build, it seems the android dev's are pushing out froyo already Let's wait, be patient, submit bug reports, support the dev's that are spending hours a day porting this **** over..
preach on brother man. but yeah, i mean, the community has always had its drama which whatever..... but really, firerat has been the only one doing what this community used to be about which is helping lend support to other devs roms.
i mean even if you look a couple months back, yeah sure you had about 3 maybe 4 diferent hero roms out there and maybe 3 other 1.6 roms plus Cyanogen's stuff..... but then again the community was alot larger (obviously before 2.1 and before the N1). now we have far less devs, but the same amount of roms. i mean, slide port alone has about 5-6 different ports and it just came out. same with legend and everything else. back then it wouldnt be strange to have several devs on one rom. now its one maybe 2 doing stuff on here (besides CM and teamdouche). they embody what the community used to be about, and the turn is really what has pushed some other mods away.
ive had a cliq and i have talked to eugene and barak about it. the mentality of everyone here basically pushed them away. thats why they dev on the cliq/behold. heck. the cliq community pitched in to get one dev a replacement phone after he bricked and its been sent around to several devs for them to pitch in on the phone since it has different bootloader images etc and its not worth going into bc its a crazy rediculous device. the "community cliq" is basically the phone that gets sent around to make sure development keeps going.
not that im saying we should do that but it just shows that other android devices have much tighter knit communities and dont have anywhere near the bs that we do. for example last night, some guy put out a thread SAYING he took a rom put out by other devs that dropped it, and did some work, then resigned and released. no one said he claimed full ownership of it. then someone has to come into his thread and start uselessly contributing. at that time he replied how he felt which is completely understandable, and he was right in ending the post by saying to continue it on twitter if he wanted to continue the conversation to get on twitter or start something in gen discussion (which where this should prob be btw but i understand the reason for putting it here so more would see). these threads should be for releases and bug repports and ideas for development. not saying awesome! or i cant wait to flash this! or most definatly hey everyone i wouldnt bother flashing this bc someone else is releasing this tomorrow and it will waste your time. that pushed another possible dev away. sure he might not have been super dev who would create his own rom from source, but he might have had a different look at something that might have helped speed up a rom or stop an issue.
moral to the story- were all on the same team, we dont need to shoot ourselves in the foot.
*yes i know this post has grammar and spelling errors. this isnt english class. thats my .02 cents
Who said you needed to flash them... For a person with the audacity to tell people that there rom sucks or anything of that matter and you haven't even touched a rom except to download, drag, drop, flash, and flame. People start somewhere not knowing what the hell they are doing to great developers like Cyanogen (and team) Firerat, pershoot, dumfuq, etc. I am dumfounded someone with 82 posts could be so belligerent when they have absolutely no idea how long it takes to theme or make a rom. Before you tell people to grow, I suggest you take your own advice and shove it where the sun don't shine.
If you want stable, unroot and get your *** back to stock...
All I am going to say on this topic.
Not much to say on this since I run cdma hero but I do come over here alot to check up to see if anything new thats good has popped for my girls phone up and although I agree partially with what your saying but your approach is wrong. And if you want a good rom two things you can do is make it your self or buy a sprint hero and come on over to our neck of the woods
Looks like someone forgot to take their 'Happy Pills'.
not sure on this guy himself but ive been looking into it for awhile, have the stock system dumps of a couple of dif sense roms and once i feel as though i have a good understanding of the java aspect/coding of it i fully plan on starting. right now im just messing around with apps. basic stuff. but i would be more than happy if anyone did wanna lend a hand at any time.
i wish that if you wanted to submit a rom, you would do it to a site, that would then take and post the rom with no name on it. users could submit bugs anonymously and the dev can then fix the problems. the users would submit a form having required fields like what type of device, sd card information, any apps added/removed and comments sections as well. this would then make it so it was all annonoymous. it wouldnt be hey have you flashed that new hero 5 v6 rom? or that eclair 3 v2 has a problem with wifi, i reported it and it should be fixed in v3. the only people who would have problems with it are people wanting credit. if no one takes credit and no one gives credit...... then where is the issue. people have problems with person b using person a stuff and getting credit for it. well if theres no way to tell who took what from where then what does it matter? unless your a credit whore it doesnt.
the dev i respect more than anyone out there is Barakinflorida.... guy never asked for a donation from anyone, guy is willing to lend a hand and talk to you about whatever it is you have to ask. by far the nicest guy in the android community. and he did it the right way. untill drizzy put him on blast at the end of his thing outing him as the one who basically helped him when he needed it, he was an unknown besides to the main devs and a small group of others.
and its not like the basic ideal of the OP couldnt be achieved. theres all kinds of sites that you can go to to host where people can go and update with their own edits. and if people want credit who cares. take and have them sign the mods they make or things they add/remove and then throw their name on the big board.
whoever has anything to say about credit, i say this.... take the free apps you use, we wont even use the stock OS' since they get paid by big companies (and i know no one will be able to list a developer who deved on one of the stock os' ne ways), and tell me each person who was on that dev team. sure one or two you might be able to. but on most of them..... you prob wont. ie- level up studios, seesmic. its free. how many people use it? and who created it???
exactly.
XxKOLOHExX said:
Who said you needed to flash them... For a person with the audacity to tell people that there rom sucks or anything of that matter and you haven't even touched a rom except to download, drag, drop, flash, and flame. People start somewhere not knowing what the hell they are doing to great developers like Cyanogen (and team) Firerat, pershoot, dumfuq, etc. I am dumfounded someone with 82 posts could be so belligerent when they have absolutely no idea how long it takes to theme or make a rom. Before you tell people to grow, I suggest you take your own advice and shove it where the sun don't shine.
If you want stable, unroot and get your *** back to stock...
All I am going to say on this topic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1000000000000
The only point the OP got right is that devs will call almost anything ported to Dream/Magic as stable and fast (the worst offenders: zach, king, king, king, and king) but I never really expected that a Sense ROM would go super fast on our first gen devices.
Dude, you guys still don't get it... long as you got those big ass "Donate" buttons, and you idiots keep giving them money, and thus, incentive, it's not gonna stop...
I've said it before and I'll say it again (I myself pulled about 500 bucks from two rom series I made):
Contribute code/knowledge, not money. Learn how to do things yourself.
As long as people can make a buck off of simple stuff like porting, they'll continue doing it, subpar as it's always been.
That'll weed out the file-pushers, something every idiot who can use a browser can do, and leave those who actually have something to contribute doing so.
r0man said:
+1000000000000
the only point the op got right is that devs will call almost anything ported to dream/magic as stable and fast (the worst offenders: Zach, king, king, king, and king) but i never really expected that a sense rom would go super fast on our first gen devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hahahahaha
rom
this rom sucks. I tried to flash it and it just hangs. This dev sucks. I thought my g1 was gonna grow up into a nexus one. This **** ain't stable at all. To the op "FIX THE DAMN SMS"
would be neat to see a tree with branches for Ramhack, crazy O.C kernels, stable non-crazy kernels, etc... so that we can actually compare apples with apples when it comes to speed from all these weird and wonderful hacks. but thats about it...
I didnt know 12 year olds were making roms, maybe we need to call authorities since I sense a sweat shop! Also, I dont see you creating any roms. You and many other *****ing bastards are the main reason why we cant have nice things in life.
you know he is true.
When I had my windows phone its was a lot of good **** going on hear (and the mods were more understanding)
I never post anything here anymore cause it will get deleted by a mod/admin you cant even ask a question without a million people saying why don't you use search.
Anyways thinks for The roms CyanogenMod or Steve cause in IMO he is the only one that deserves it. Every one just trys to make his **** better and by the time they do get it stable he has already released a stable version
RaffieKol said:
you know he is true.
When I had my windows phone its was a lot of good **** going on hear (and the mods were more understanding)
I never post anything here anymore cause it will get deleted by a mod/admin you cant even ask a question without a million people saying why don't you use search.
Anyways thinks for The roms CyanogenMod or Steve cause in IMO he is the only one that deserves it. Every one just trys to make his **** better and by the time they do get it stable he has already released a stable version
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A very sad but true statement indeed. I have seen many people on here asking a question only to be told: wrong thread, use search, MOD close this thread! All of that is just ridiculous.. oh yeah.. goodbye in case I get BANNED!
Well i do agree there is a bunch of unnecessary roms out there. I think it would be more beneficial to give support to the main roms like Cyan, instead of making a new rom out of each release.
Hi,
What should I do if the rom I am using and really like has disappeared and now is unsupported?
I'm using an AOSP Froyo rom and I can't seem to find any others let alone one which everything works in.
Yes I'm using Cronos Froyo, and I'm an honest user who doesn't care much for xda forums politics.
I've read the comments that the moderators have written in the thread and whilst I understand what they have written, do end users really have to suffer because of a dispute between developers?
Yes I agree in principle that source should be released with the release, but don't other rom devs have a donators only beta testing section before general release for testing which also occurs before source code release? Feeyo as far as I'm aware takes no donations what so ever.
Also, I wonder if the xda moderators have consulted laywers about the GPL as it is a legal document and thus won't be as black and white as it seems. A lot of companies behave not dissimilarly to feeyo and survive the threat of any action.
Beyond this, hero users really owe a lot to feeyo for the couple of months before official 2.1 got released as he was the only dev to get 2.1 working properly with long lasting battery life.
plonkersaurus said:
Hi,
What should I do if the rom I am using and really like has disappeared and now is unsupported?
I'm using an AOSP Froyo rom and I can't seem to find any others let alone one which everything works in.
Yes I'm using Cronos Froyo, and I'm an honest user who doesn't care much for xda forums politics.
I've read the comments that the moderators have written in the thread and whilst I understand what they have written, do end users really have to suffer because of a dispute between developers?
Yes I agree in principle that source should be released with the release, but don't other rom devs have a donators only beta testing section before general release for testing which also occurs before source code release? Feeyo as far as I'm aware takes no donations what so ever.
Also, I wonder if the xda moderators have consulted laywers about the GPL as it is a legal document and thus won't be as black and white as it seems. A lot of companies behave not dissimilarly to feeyo and survive the threat of any action.
Beyond this, hero users really owe a lot to feeyo for the couple of months before official 2.1 got released as he was the only dev to get 2.1 working properly with long lasting battery life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe he still releases in his forum - just do a google search
nope, it seems his account has been suspended on the domain, not good.
plonkersaurus said:
sing an AOSP Froyo rom and I can't seem to find any others let alone one which everything works in.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's AOSP ROMs. Without even plugging my own, there's the Fusion project for a start.
Froyd and Fusion are Cyanogen based roms which I've tried and don't work so well for me.
I'd count them as Vanilla roms not AOSP
Dude. You might as well turn xda into thepiratebay.Breaking a software licence is illegal no matter if the software is proprietary or open source.
Sent from my HTC Hero using XDA App
plonkersaurus said:
Froyd and Fusion are Cyanogen based roms which I've tried and don't work so well for me.
I'd count them as Vanilla roms not AOSP
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only non AOSP thing about them is:
They include Google Apps
They include proprietary libs grabbed from the phone to make the phone work.
Guess what, that's what AOSP ROMs do too, the ones released here anyway, since they're largely unusable without Google Apps (Market, etc) and the libs needed to make the phone work.
If you want plain AOSP, you better have an ADP1, ADP2 or a Nexus One. There is no such thing as a pure AOSP Hero ROM.
What people mean when they refer to AOSP, is they yanked the git straight from Android and compiled it for X phone, adding in whatever apps along with the Google apps and the prop libs.
Cyanogenmod is also AOSP in that same sense. Only there's a ton of people working on the repo and fixing stuff that Android don't or haven't yet.
If you've run into a CM based ROM that doesn't work well for you then it's still down to the builder. Chances are if they made an "AOSP" ROM, it'd be even worse.
I'm actually a professional software developer.
The Hero community here, as it is, I would never contribute to, because I wouldn't want my work included into someone elses rom that they then take donations for (I would never ask for donations for my work) especially since there seems to be no pioneering development going on by themselves.
So I see feeyo as someone like me, but with a drive to get things working on the hero.
In my eyes he is a bit like a vigilante or I guess like Batman. What Batman does is illegal too you know.
Sometimes there is such thing as the lesser of two evils and the greater good.
He harmed no one doing what he did.
Hacre said:
The only non AOSP thing about them is:
They include Google Apps
They include proprietary libs grabbed from the phone to make the phone work.
Guess what, that's what AOSP ROMs do too, the ones released here anyway, since they're largely unusable without Google Apps (Market, etc) and the libs needed to make the phone work.
If you want plain AOSP, you better have an ADP1, ADP2 or a Nexus One. There is no such thing as a pure AOSP Hero ROM.
What people mean when they refer to AOSP, is they yanked the git straight from Android and compiled it for X phone, adding in whatever apps along with the Google apps and the prop libs.
Cyanogenmod is also AOSP in that same sense. Only there's a ton of people working on the repo and fixing stuff that Android don't or haven't yet.
If you've run into a CM based ROM that doesn't work well for you then it's still down to the builder. Chances are if they made an "AOSP" ROM, it'd be even worse.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cyanogenmod roms change a lot more things than just needed to get android working properly and I'm not a huge fan of all the changes
plonkersaurus said:
Hi,
What should I do if the rom I am using and really like has disappeared and now is unsupported?
.....
Yes I agree in principle that source should be released with the release, but don't other rom devs have a donators only beta testing section before general release for testing which also occurs before source code release? Feeyo as far as I'm aware takes no donations what so ever.
.....
Beyond this, hero users really owe a lot to feeyo for the couple of months before official 2.1 got released as he was the only dev to get 2.1 working properly with long lasting battery life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1... Switch to another ROM, or stick with what you have, they are your two options.
2... No, other devs do not have a "donators only beta testing section", and regardless if they did or not, I think you need to go and re-read all the info the mods have given about the GPL issue before adding your 2 pence worth.
3... I owe feeyo nothing. He may have produced ROMS, but contribute to the community he did not.
Sent from my HTC Hero using XDA App
plonkersaurus said:
I'm actually a professional software developer.
The Hero community here, as it is, I would never contribute to, because I wouldn't want my work included into someone elses rom that they then take donations for (I would never ask for donations for my work) especially since there seems to be no pioneering development going on by themselves.
So I see feeyo as someone like me, but with a drive to get things working on the hero.
In my eyes he is a bit like a vigilante or I guess like Batman. What Batman does is illegal too you know.
Sometimes there is such thing as the lesser of two evils and the greater good.
He harmed no one doing what he did.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hahaha what. Being a developer doesn't mean you "get" the point of the GPL. Plenty of developers over at Microsoft don't "get" it. That doesn't make it any less valid.
In fact your entire post just screams "I do not understand open source development, what on Earth is wrong with people doing stuff themselves and hoarding it".
The "pioneering development" as you put it doesn't happen by individuals because it happens in groups. You know, lots of minds working towards a common goal.
Jesus on a bike.
EDIT: woah..
plonkersaurus said:
Beyond this, hero users really owe a lot to feeyo for the couple of months before official 2.1 got released as he was the only dev to get 2.1 working properly with long lasting battery life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I missed this when I first read the OP. Hahaha no he wasn't. Battery life has to be one of the most done to death topics on these forums and do you know what? Your battery life is solely dependent on you the phone user, providing of course the developer or the cooker hasn't done something utterly retarded to the ROM that causes battery to run down.
Until Froyo was released, Cronos wasn't even a compiled ROM it was a precompiled Sense ROM and as such subject to all the whims of the HTC base that the rest of us were.
Oh and I don't owe him anything. Never used his ROM, never benefited from what he apparently gave back to the community (nothing). He owed me and whomever else asked him for it, source code, which happened to be the one thing he never once provided while being happy to make use of source code provided by others.
Hacre said:
Hahaha what. Being a develloper doesn't mean you "get" the point of the GPL. Plenty of developers over at Microsoft don't "get" it. That doesn't make it any less valid.
In fact your entire post just screams "I do not understand open source development, what on Earth is wrong with people doing stuff themselves and hoarding it".
The "pioneering development" as you put it doesn't happen by individuals because it happens in groups. You know, lots of minds working towards a common goal.
Jesus on a bike.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't mention GPL anywhere in my post.
I mentioned that I wouldn't help this community due to the fact people would be accepting donations for what would be in part my work which I think is immoral.
That is what my post was about.
Plus I think you will find Linus wrote Linux by himself so individuals are capable of greatness.
plonkersaurus said:
Plus I think you will find Linus wrote Linux by himself so individuals are capable of greatness.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Re check your history. Linus did not write Linux by himself. He wrote the first kernel by himself. Linux wasn't truly born until he released it along with the source code and people started fixing it, writing drivers for it and writing coreutils/toolchains around it. It didn't approach anything like popular until it got x86 support and the kernel reached a level of maturity in the 2.0.x releases. Collaborative development/debugging. It's an amazing thing. Stunted quickly by the "I will not share" attitude that you're defending and supporting.
I am genuinely curious as to how you can guarantee that people will receive donations for your work. Or why you'd even care. My kernel source tree is used by others, I don't lose a wink of sleep over whether they get donations for their finished ROM or not, it doesn't matter.
Donations are just that, donations. They are not a fee. They are not someone taking someone else's work and then charging for it. They're something that an individual feels that they want to give to someone out of the kindness of their hearts as a thank you as well as the fact that donations are quite a rarity.
I got my first donation today. It'll buy me a few beers. It won't make me rich. I got it for my work on the kernel and my work on the Villain 2.2 ROMs. Have a guess how many people at Villain are now pissy that I got a donation and not the project itself. None. Have a guess how many GNU developers are now hand wringing themselves with pure fret because some guy got bought a beer for some work he did on their code. None.
You didn't have to mention the GPL in your post. The GPL is why these ridiculous threads keep springing up, it was the GPL and the failure to adhere to it, that got Feeyo canned.
People with your attitude toward community development have no place on these forums. Kindly take the door that has a Feeyo shaped hole in it.
plonkersaurus said:
I'm actually a professional software developer.
The Hero community here, as it is, I would never contribute to, because I wouldn't want my work included into someone elses rom that they then take donations for (I would never ask for donations for my work) especially since there seems to be no pioneering development going on by themselves.
So I see feeyo as someone like me, but with a drive to get things working on the hero.
In my eyes he is a bit like a vigilante or I guess like Batman. What Batman does is illegal too you know.
Sometimes there is such thing as the lesser of two evils and the greater good.
He harmed no one doing what he did.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you don't want to share then Android is not for you.
And why the big deal about asking for donations. Its not free to run a site. And a donation is hardly mandatory, the clue is in the name, no-one was bent over and forced to do anything they never wanted to.
I have used Villain on and off since Feb and haven't donated a penny.
.... and Batman? Really? Yes he makes the decisions that no one else can, for the greater good, the bigger picture... he doesn't play hero just to boost his own ego.
Sent from my HTC Hero using XDA App
Hacre said:
EDIT: woah..
I missed this when I first read the OP. Hahaha no he wasn't. Battery life has to be one of the most done to death topics on these forums and do you know what? Your battery life is solely dependent on you the phone user, providing of course the developer or the cooker hasn't done something utterly retarded to the ROM that causes battery to run down.
Until Froyo was released, Cronos wasn't even a compiled ROM it was a precompiled Sense ROM and as such subject to all the whims of the HTC base that the rest of us were.
Oh and I don't owe him anything. Never used his ROM, never benefited from what he apparently gave back to the community (nothing). He owed me and whomever else asked him for it, source code, which happened to be the one thing he never once provided while being happy to make use of source code provided by others.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, so you never used his rom. I did and it was leagues ahead of anything else at the time. It made our phones really usable with 2.1. I remember when it was first released it was in the top 5 threads for a week on the front page of xda so I'm sure I wasn't the only one to experience this.
Also, sometimes it's the way you ask for something. I never once saw you ask for the source code with a view to work with him on it, only to get access to it. I know you are going to spout GPL rules now but I would rather not provide them knowing they will be taken over and most likely I would not be included in development in a "team" way, and rather take the punishment when it came of being banned.
plonkersaurus said:
Also, sometimes it's the way you ask for something. I never once saw you ask for the source code with a view to work with him on it, only to get access to it. I know you are going to spout GPL rules now but I would rather not provide them knowing they will be taken over and most likely I would not be included in development in a "team" way, and rather take the punishment when it came of being banned.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My first four or five requests were incredibly polite. There were a plethora of polite request the first time he pulled this stunt too. My reason for asking was irrelevant. However my reason for asking for those particular sources, were twofold:
1: I didn't believe it.
2: If it was true then the community should damn well get access to it so we as a group can get it up to full working order so that EVERY ROM DEVELOPER can make use of it.
Taken over? What? I now don't believe that you're a developer, at least nothing outside pointing and clicking in a GUI based programming tool in some office somewhere, because you clearly have no idea of what collaborative development is. You cannot shut anyone, ANYONE, out of a GPL project, that's the whole frigging point. See my signature? Source code. Source code anyone can take and modify. Source code people are welcome to change, fix, port, patch and if they want to, submit a pull request so I can merge those fixes in.
Click the link. Follow the fork tree. Observe the magic as my changes move upstream to the original cyanogenmod + Hero kernel. Observe further magic as changes they make merge their way down into my kernel. Yeah I/we are really all about shutting people out.
Stop trolling.
plonkersaurus said:
Ok, so you never used his rom. I did and it was leagues ahead of anything else at the time. It made our phones really usable with 2.1. I remember when it was first released it was in the top 5 threads for a week on the front page of xda so I'm sure I wasn't the only one to experience this.
Also, sometimes it's the way you ask for something. I never once saw you ask for the source code with a view to work with him on it, only to get access to it. I know you are going to spout GPL rules now but I would rather not provide them knowing they will be taken over and most likely I would not be included in development in a "team" way, and rather take the punishment when it came of being banned.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You might be right, maybe they wouldn't have let him be in the team, maybe they would have. Who cares, they would have had to credit it to him either way, just as they credit help from other developers now.
The main point is that he wasn't willing to help push things forward. He wanted all the spotlight for himself.
Sent from my HTC Hero using XDA App
Hacre said:
Re check your history. Linus did not write Linux by himself. He wrote the first kernel by himself. Linux wasn't truly born until he released it along with the source code and people started fixing it, writing drivers for it and writing coreutils/toolchains around it. It didn't approach anything like popular until it got x86 support and the kernel reached a level of maturity in the 2.0.x releases. Collaborative development/debugging. It's an amazing thing. Stunted quickly by the "I will not share" attitude that you're defending and supporting.
I am genuinely curious as to how you can guarantee that people will receive donations for your work. Or why you'd even care. My kernel source tree is used by others, I don't lose a wink of sleep over whether they get donations for their finished ROM or not, it doesn't matter.
Donations are just that, donations. They are not a fee. They are not someone taking someone else's work and then charging for it. They're something that an individual feels that they want to give to someone out of the kindness of their hearts as a thank you as well as the fact that donations are quite a rarity.
I got my first donation today. It'll buy me a few beers. It won't make me rich. I got it for my work on the kernel and my work on the Villain 2.2 ROMs. Have a guess how many people at Villain are now pissy that I got a donation and not the project itself. None. Have a guess how many GNU developers are now hand wringing themselves with pure fret because some guy got bought a beer for some work he did on their code. None.
You didn't have to mention the GPL in your post. The GPL is why these ridiculous threads keep springing up, it was the GPL and the failure to adhere to it, that got Feeyo canned.
People with your attitude toward community development have no place on these forums. Kindly take the door that has a Feeyo shaped hole in it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the problem here is your attitude, you seem to think you own the place. I am free to stay here as I wish as far as I know. I also don't believe you are reading my posts correctly as you seem to think I am against community programming which is further from the truth.
I never said I wouldn't share. I wouldn't share with you. I think community programming is great all things being equal. It seems to me that the hero community here is terrible right now and thus I wouldn't help it.
Getting people banned definitely isn't making you friends either. I honestly never saw you wanting to work with feeyo only to get at his work.
I would have no problem helping out trying to get android to work on the Xperia X1 and supplying my source code as that is a true example of people working together.
Hacre said:
My first four or five requests were incredibly polite. There were a plethora of polite request the first time he pulled this stunt too. My reason for asking was irrelevant. However my reason for asking for those particular sources, were twofold:
1: I didn't believe it.
2: If it was true then the community should damn well get access to it so we as a group can get it up to full working order so that EVERY ROM DEVELOPER can make use of it.
Taken over? What? I now don't believe that you're a developer, at least nothing outside pointing and clicking in a GUI based programming tool in some office somewhere, because you clearly have no idea of what collaborative development is. You cannot shut anyone, ANYONE, out of a GPL project, that's the whole frigging point. See my signature? Source code. Source code anyone can take and modify. Source code people are welcome to change, fix, port, patch and if they want to, submit a pull request so I can merge those fixes in.
Click the link. Follow the fork tree. Observe the magic as my changes move upstream to the original cyanogenmod + Hero kernel. Observe further magic as changes they make merge their way down into my kernel. Yeah I/we are really all about shutting people out.
Stop trolling.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's not what I mean by shutting people out. I'm not trolling but replying to your false accusations.
You are also trying to personally discredit me by calling me a point and click GUI programmer which is below the belt. You know nothing about me.
What I mean is, working together as these roms are virtually the same project is about communicating. Something that would not have happened and does in a real collaborative effort.
I'm sick of this thread and having to defend myself because you fail to understand what working together really means. And no it's not just following rules. It's obvious you aren't a professional programmer. People skills and management are just as important as being able to program and that is the point I am trying to get at.
I think you've formed your opinion and regardless of how many times Hacre blows your point out of the water, your not going to be swayed are you. He shouldn't even have to explain himself to you, every point had been covered in the other fan threads already.
Sent from my HTC Hero using XDA App
Lmao I'm loving and had to contribute to what I can only describe as "better than jeremy kyle" show that's going on over in the dev section.
My views are like many and as for being all for new development on wildfire I just can't comprehend why this mockery has been allowed to go on for so long? I'm urging moderators to act on this matter of continuous so called "new fast and stable roms" that havnt even been tested!! That suddenly are discontinued and replaced by yet another.
It really does take alot to rile me up the wrong way but this has got to be sorted PLEASE.
this is my opinion which I have the right to air and really don't wish to offend any individuals, I respect my own and everyone's rights but surely this point must be addressed.
Kindest regards,slymobi.
sent from my emmaroid infected wilderbeast
LOL....... Not many people will know what you mean by the jezza comment but i certainly do!!
The thing that really ticks me off is the fact that all these roms are popping up and where is the credit for the real developer, you know the guy who has actually sat in front of a computer for hours on end staring at code over and over and over again to actually bring them a base to dissect and add a few apps (incorrectly too if i might add as most of the time they fc constantly) and finally slap there name on it to hopefully make them famous xda developers!!
Well no-one can pull the wool over my eyes that easily and i'll be sticking with the true dev's, the ones who can actually read a logcat and make sense of it all and also fix problems instead of just deleting the problem and starting again!!
:End Rant:
True developers !?
I agree with both of you as there have been so many "stable" ROMS that never got tested... And they pop up every 5 seconds lately.
Can it be due to the fact that most of the "true developers" (your definition) moved to other/new phones ? Hence we have new developers (or wannabe's) at the early stages of their careers So they will learn and eventually earn the title "true developer". Maybe we should not act so harsh and scare them off !!! We do need some developers to breath in some new life into these old phones of ours.
I am not a developer myself... But I have couple of things to say about you guys' definition of "true developers".... My question is where do you really draw the line? So a true developer should be able to built from source according to your definition. Well they need the source for that... And its coded by someone else... So all they are doing in effect is compiling someone elses code. Maybe they are not the "true developers" either???
All I am trying to say is, cool off a bit, let the new developers/wannabe's mature. As I am sure they are quite young.
And a note to the new developers: Be patient and work first and then gloat. Do not call every release "stable". You know we have words like "alpha", "beta" etc...
p.s. And what happened to the term ROM Cook? We do have the kitchen.. If that makes people happy, maybe we should call them COOKS. After all, not everybody is a good cook ...
You have some good valid points but I think your not totally understanding our concerns.
Nobody is against new developers or up and coming ones either. Its the manner in which they conduct themselves and there project. A simple example is...... lets say I take your post and edit it and change what you've said a little bit then stop half way thro
sent from my emmaroid infected wilderbeast
Ugh then change the name etc etc cos I got bored or encountered some errors!! Would this mean that the original post does not deserve any credit. Now if you read your quoted post in my post youll see ive edited a few things just for an example my friend ( now removed after point being made and recognized) and is in no way intended to offend you. I have personally had pm conversation with one of the newbies and respect that he is new and learning and offered him some simple advice which he was thankful for I think. I'm no dev either and have no ambition to become one lol I'm to lazy but I would go about things differently to most of the so called new devs. Regards slymobi.
sent from my emmaroid infected wilderbeast
"thesherrif " now that I like... Some changes are good I guess.
I understand your concerns very well... But it is what it is when it comes to young people. Especially this generation They get bored quiet fast and move onto a new ROM/new thread. Eventually, they will mature up. Winzipping won't be enough for them, and they start to dig deep into their ROMs and start doing some "true developing" with patience to stick with what they've started.
Unfortunately for us, they will live through their early stages of developing with us, and when they become competent developers they will move to other phones That is the price of owning an old (and cheap enough for kids to buy) phone like wildfire.
Arrggghhh I should get a new phone. I really need to...
Lol nice end. I agree. I used to love testing out new roms but slowly found that the next was too similar to the previous,I just think maybe there should be some kind of testing review period by experienced members before new roms are openly posted. Or like another very respected member has stated, split the dev section into new and original!! I have not named said member due to my respect for him. Regards slymobi.
P.s I'm gonna have to go some work my boss is getting pissed at me lol. Bye bye.
sent from my emmaroid infected wilderbeast
Hehe
I find it incredibly funny to download one of those roms and see my name & build box in the compile strings
One of them even changed the developer ID (as used by Rom Manager)... f'k knows why, you need more that just a line in a file to get it on there
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
And the one that's apparently "final"... I wonder if there will be a "final v2" if I ever get this bloody camcorder fixed
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
Just putting it out there that I would love to be a tester for the Galaxy SII, I have the original one, I have flash and went through 90% of every ROM up for it in both sections the original section and regular section, I just love flashing and going through Roms and would love to just help out someone with there Rom and do whatever it is they need me to do as far as testing, please hit me back. I hope I posted this is the right place if not, I will watch the Noob video 20 times in a row for punishment.
ah ok...... that's an idea
Original SGS II ? No kidding! :|
At first, I thought of this as just a pointless thread - but you got me thinking... What if we were to create a thread where people can nominate themselves as alpha/beta/etc. testers for ROM/Kernel developers? The difference lying in that to be eligible for a position, you'd have to prove that you have basic knowledge of how to recover from, for example, a bootloop, or a device that won't even boot, or constant FCs, etc. etc., along with again, pretty basic ADB knowledge, how to create and restore a NANDroid backup, and things like that. It'd come with the usual disclaimer stating that all responsibilities lie with the user, not the developer, and while the developer may be willing to provide support for bugs, etc., they are not liable for any damage resulting either directly or indirectly from the use of their software.
This would solve two things - it would satisfy those who just can't stand to wait for the release of something, who like to always live on the bleeding edge of development, and it would provide the developers a huge testing platform.
In review, though, this provides to main issues: 1) people would only be able to test one thing at a time, e.g. you're not going to be allowed to test a beta ROM with an alpha kernel, for example - it creates too many variables, and makes it harder for the developers to isolate and fix problems - but this shouldn't be an issue for people, just pick what you want and stick with it, and 2) people who leak the otherwise tester-restricted software for the masses - but this can be solved easily: maintain a list of official testers. Anyone who comes begging for support because they went ahead and flashed some leaked ROM/kernel/whatever, and ended up without a working device without being on the list, can be denied support for breaking the rules. Moreover, they, along with the leaker, could potentially face site-imposed bans?
I'll cut the rambling here, but I think it's a good idea?
As a ROM developer, its a great idea.
Sent from HydrOG3N MOD S2.
Technology Evolves, Android Evolves.
HydrOG3N is THE Revolution.
Thinking about it, not bad idea. But to back sceamworks up a bit, there should be a number of post limit, Some form of history for the dev`s to see who is a Noob (sorry Noobs) and who is not...
I'm in
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
I like the idea and I too would be glad to help people testing there ROMs.
It also seems nice to have a thread where people (like me or the OP) can set them self available for testing.
Most real developers pick their team from watching the threads and see how is willing to put the time in and know how to properly test as well as offer ideas on fixes. But not a bad idea I guess for new rom developers
lodger said:
Thinking about it, not bad idea. But to back sceamworks up a bit, there should be a number of post limit, Some form of history for the dev`s to see who is a Noob (sorry Noobs) and who is not...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree completely, I'd say 50-100 would be a fair starting point? I might PM some devs sometime soon with a proper proposal, and if I get a positive response from a majority of them, I might draft something, and get some official names on-board.
zelendel said:
Most real developers pick their team from watching the threads and see how is willing to put the time in and know how to properly test as well as offer ideas on fixes. But not a bad idea I guess for new rom developers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I considered this, and I think if anything brings the idea down, it'll be that - it's a hard sell to make, and I'd love to say that there's no harm in trying, but really, there is, so I guess execution is everything?
Good idea, im in....
I understand, after 2+ years, that ROM development and the forums for the EVO are gonna slow down. Devs are going to move on to other devices, but there is a really disturbing trend here that is irritating the hell out of me.
ROMs used to be released as Aplha's Beta's RC's, final, etc. You could look at the OP and see everything about the ROM. Devs took their time crafting something unique.
Now, I'm seeing these ROMS come out at a rapid pace and I'm not liking it for several reasons.
1) Poorly written OP's that don't even list the Android base version or the kernel, etc.
2) The same ROM with different names and the only real differences are a few 3rd party apps, or a slight theme change.
3) ROMs released as finals, with a ton of bugs. I'm not talking about FFC, Netflix, 4G bugs on ICS/JB ROMS; I'm talking about ROMS with no Wifi, for example. The majority use WiFi. Why the HELL would you release something where one of the most important aspects doesn't even work?? It's like not paying attention to details is suddenly OK
Settings that don't stick. Sounds that don't stick. Constant System Process Errors. These are pre-release errors, and I don't see them getting fixed, because it's become like a race to port every other ROM from every other device and tweak to boot up on the Evo, then letting it go.
I REALLY wish I could take the time and learn how to properly cook up my own ROM. My OCD of paying attention to details would probably make it great.
Hipkat thats the best thing ive heard in weeks,someone finally speaking out about the BS thats being posted now days and its like everyones in a race to see who can come out with the most borked roms,lol,like you said,they are all the same,except the apps and some themeing and half of them cant do that either,i'm sure this isnt meant to be a bashing session,its just getting rediculous with the drama some are causing and all the crappy ass roms being released,some guys do know what their doing,theres been 1 or 2 that i've put out that i shouldnt have,but come on guys at least take your time and try to do it right,only takes a little common sense and effort.If you havent noticed,over half the members and devs have left because of the BS,when i started doing roms,it was fun,nows its just a big joke,lol.
I dont care if anyone gets pissed about this and i'm sure they will,but oh well life goes on,you will eventually get over it.
It's definitely not a bashing, but a call for Devs to take a little more time and do it right
HipKat said:
It's definitely not a bashing, but a call for Devs to take a little more time and do it right
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't Dev, Cook, Build, Port or whatever term is used so I have alot of respect for those that do. With that being said I would also state that I am in complete agreement with you and Diablo.
I look at damned near every topic started in the Dev forum just to see what is being made. I take weeks to look at a new ROM and follow the threads to see what comes of it (with the only exception being Mazda's new CAJB ROM. On that one I went with name recognition and am pleased that I did)
In regards to the mass influx of ROMs I'll say this: If you guys don't take the time to keep up with each item you produce, work on bugs, add new options, answer questions from the users then you'll soon find yourself out of favor. Your reputation here, just like in RL, is something of value. It takes very little to earn trust, respect and loyalty. Most people will always give you the benefit of the doubt. Do something to devalue that trust and it can be nearly impossible to regain.
I think some wisdom can be gleaned by the following quote:
jamieg71 said:
I've seen devs, chefs, hackers, w/e, that make statements like "I do this for myself and just choose to share" or things to that effect. I call BS. I won't speak for anyone else but myself when I say, I do this for the thrill of it, for the challenge, to learn, and to share. I'd be lying if I said I didn't care about d/l numbers or that seeing my thanks meter grow did not give me some juvenalalistic (is that a word?) thrill. The fact is, guys like me doing this stuff get off on it...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We know why you do it, and if you want to keep your junkies and not lose your rep, then make sure you take the time to Develop your craft and thereby make a better product for the masses...
Sorry for the rant
Well said, and nice quote from Jamie, who, btw, you notice took a lot of time with Reloaded
HipKat said:
Well said, and nice quote from Jamie, who, btw, you notice took a lot of time with Reloaded
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
...lol, 'nuff said!
I think everyone needs to remember the difference between Development and Port / Theme / Tweak / Mod. That simple labeling would be a start
Over in Evo LTE land, they have finally recognized this distinction by creating entirely separate forums for "HTC EVO 4G LTE Android Development" and "HTC EVO 4G LTE Original Android Development"
One is for tweaks or ports, and the other is for people who actually compile something.
I made a request for the same original dev section but got denied as our device is to old.
I agree that there are a ton of ports and not enough originality or bugs being fixed. What I would like to state us that the op is stating that a lot have some third party apps but that's like calling the kettle black. You yourself have a rerelease of a miui from where all you did was slap your team name in the thread. I believe the original thread still exists. I'm not calling you out at all but at the same time the work that goes into all these ports or mods or what not is a ton. I myself have my rom thread and some new stuff coming out but I don't call people out usually on their stuff unless its a pure kang(meaning an actual using of ur work with out permission) not a duplicate port.
Yeah some of the revs here could put a little more work in and for sure learn to organize their rom thread a whole hell of a lot better but at the same time who else do u see bringing the newest and best to a two year old device.
XDA Moderator
It's not that they have 3rd party apps, all ROMS do, it's that some ROMS are just the same ROM with a few different 3rd party apps, or a slight variation in theming, and I mean real slight, but tbh, my biggest beef was with the OP not even listing what kernel is in the ROM, or if it has A2SD or a way to get it working, or the version of Android it's based on, etc.
Add in bug reports that get ignored or the person posting the report gets demeaned for it.
Mostly, it's just the sloppiness that I see going on over the last few months. Too hasty to release something without really perfecting it first
HipKat said:
It's not that they have 3rd party apps, all ROMS do, it's that some ROMS are just the same ROM with a few different 3rd party apps, or a slight variation in theming, and I mean real slight, but tbh, my biggest beef was with the OP not even listing what kernel is in the ROM, or if it has A2SD or a way to get it working, or the version of Android it's based on, etc.
Add in bug reports that get ignored or the person posting the report gets demeaned for it.
Mostly, it's just the sloppiness that I see going on over the last few months. Too hasty to release something without really perfecting it first
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can agree with that there. sloppy op's without all the listings of what is added or taken out and what its running with a q & a section amoung other things.
I feel like we developers and porters alike should make a check list. Every time you want to post something, run through the list and then once everything is there, read again. If it seems like a business proposition (detailed, understandable, provocative and complete) then, that is the right moment to unleash it.
Thats exactly what i do,i make a list in notepad of what i want to do to the rom,then i go through and check it off as i go,wahla,i have a channelog,so to speak,then post it on the thread.Just like in my 4 Kornerz thread..... http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1612933
Same thing I'm gonna do as I try and update this MIUI GB ROM
What's funny is that the main reason I always hated opening ROM threads is because I'm completely OCD and feel like the posts have to make perfect sense. I try for my thread to make a little bit of sense at least at this point. And I try to keep change logs, bug reports & FAQs up to date.
But then again, I only have one ROM thread in this device section.
----------------------
Current Device: HTC EVO 4G LTE | ROM: toasted-deck CM10 | Kernel: Stock
Kernel should be listed.
a2sd included/not included AND if a specific version is known to work/not work.
Gapps included/not included (you can usually tell from the size of the ROM, but still)
SuperSU vs. Superuser
Wifi and data working/not working
Boot animation audio (can lead to uncomfortable moments when flashing in restrooms, in bed, around family or in TSA security lines--- yes, all personal experiences)
Probably much more...
RootzWiki kinda sorta tried to standardize some of that in OP headers. Would be cool to see that concept expanded in a visually pleasing manner. But, I know people like sprucing up their OP to their liking. Example:
Source: https://github.com/s...mmc-ra-recovery
Mod Type: Recovery Difficulty: Moderate Mod Status: Kang Mod Base: Carrier:
Requires Root: Yes Apply In: Fastboot Optional: Themed Optional: Android Version:
I think ports are great. If the developer is planning on just bringing it over and leaving it alone I think that's fine, but they should be upfront and say "Hey, I did this. Probably won't do any more with it myself, but anyone is welcome to add to it. Otherwise, enjoy."
What I'd really like to see is the people who respond first after an OP + OP reserved do something with that slot besides planting their flag of happening to be online at the right time (e.g. "First. Looks cool!"). They could take the lead, especially for very active developers with many ROMs and threads, to follow that thread and maintain an updated ROM Cheat Sheet/Known Fixes post. How many times have you followed the development of a ROM and things like the new boot animation didn't make it into the next update because the developer forgot. Then people post, "Hey, what happened to the boot ani" five or six times. Then a nice person posts it on Dropbox. Then a few people say other things. Then people repeat the question. Then people point them to the Dropbox link two pages back. Repeat. Repeat. Probably wouldn't matter though since a lot of people never read the OP. They sure wouldn't read that. I'll shut up.
smelkus said:
Kernel should be listed.
a2sd included/not included AND if a specific version is known to work/not work.
Gapps included/not included (you can usually tell from the size of the ROM, but still)
SuperSU vs. Superuser
Wifi and data working/not working
Boot animation audio (can lead to uncomfortable moments when flashing in restrooms, in bed, around family or in TSA security lines--- yes, all personal experiences)
Probably much more...
RootzWiki kinda sorta tried to standardize some of that in OP headers. Would be cool to see that concept expanded in a visually pleasing manner. But, I know people like sprucing up their OP to their liking. Example:
Source: https://github.com/s...mmc-ra-recovery
Mod Type: Recovery Difficulty: Moderate Mod Status: Kang Mod Base: Carrier:
Requires Root: Yes Apply In: Fastboot Optional: Themed Optional: Android Version:
I think ports are great. If the developer is planning on just bringing it over and leaving it alone I think that's fine, but they should be upfront and say "Hey, I did this. Probably won't do any more with it myself, but anyone is welcome to add to it. Otherwise, enjoy."
What I'd really like to see is the people who respond first after an OP + OP reserved do something with that slot besides planting their flag of happening to be online at the right time (e.g. "First. Looks cool!"). They could take the lead, especially for very active developers with many ROMs and threads, to follow that thread and maintain an updated ROM Cheat Sheet/Known Fixes post. How many times have you followed the development of a ROM and things like the new boot animation didn't make it into the next update because the developer forgot. Then people post, "Hey, what happened to the boot ani" five or six times. Then a nice person posts it on Dropbox. Then a few people say other things. Then people repeat the question. Then people point them to the Dropbox link two pages back. Repeat. Repeat. Probably wouldn't matter though since a lot of people never read the OP. They sure wouldn't read that. I'll shut up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL, you forgot 'Lather, Rinse...'
Who else clicked the link
While I agree with the OP 100%, I think at the end of the day there is NO rule that states that you need to do all that..... This is for FREE, and therefore we should be happy with we get on our EVO's nowadays..... I wish developers took their time to put a fully detail change log, bug list Q&A's section, but honestly if we don't like the way certain devs handle their threads, then just move on to the next Rom either way I don't develop, and I can figure out most stuff regarding a Rom by myself now, so I'm just thankful for all the roms out for the og EVO.
Edit: what I would like to know is what's going on with all the Rom teams flip flopping, what's up with that? Sorry to go off topic, lol.
Sent from my PC36100 using xda premium
Sorry, but while I appreciate the freeness of the work done and am grateful for it, there should still be enough info to identify exactly what you're getting into.
Perfect example. A lot of ICS/JB ROMS require the patched A2SD file. Good luck finding it. Why not add a link to the OP?? Same with GAPPS
And the date that it was released is much appreciated, although not as critical. The Android version if it's a Sense and/or GB ROM is definitely something that should be there, along with the kernel.
PHE-NOM said:
Edit: what I would like to know is what's going on with all the Rom teams flip flopping, what's up with that? Sorry to go off topic, lol.
Sent from my PC36100 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Two teams merged. Some people have left teams. I myself left td to not look partial towards a certain group.
XDA Moderator