OK guys... I think it's time to have a coming-to-Jesus (or buddha, or Mohamed, or Spaghettimonster) moment. Over many months I have downloaded lots of Roms, followed progress here and there... and quite frankly my opinion is THIS PLACE HERE NEEDS TO GROW UP.
THE PROBLEM
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I mean it's great that everyone and their grandmother can express their creativity by bringing out Roms, by using test releases, adding a few themes and call them stable, by taking dogs and call them fast.
FACT is, most ROMs SUCK, most are unstable don't make it past a few weeks, they start out fast but come to a screeching halt. Or a week in you notice that wifi doenst work, or alarm, or gmail or voice... or gmail works, but you can't send emails... and you'd don't find out until one week later when you really need that feature (at least those of us here who work)
At the end of the day the Roms here are for the most part BS... mine is longer than yours, I am faster then you, I am a pony or not, or stupidfast or or just superfast or superD or fastest or fasttest ...WHATEEVER.. I'd bet that 90% of regular users stop by once, flash a few roms then just get ultimately annoyed by the prepubescent J.O. session.....without any goal or direction or common goal...
THE SOLUTION
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So this place needs to grow up. HOW, well for a start adopt open source dev. principles. Instead of every 12 year old kid with a keyboard releasing their own orgasmicallyfast and ultimaterock stable rom, how about having a few development TREES.
Have different trees, that focus on FAST, STABLE, FUNCTIONAL. Or some mix that is clearly defined in a mission statement. Then have people commit improvements, changes to those trees and have official releases that would actually bring each tree further and add improvements. Have the most respected devs. manage those trees while all the newby devs contribute. Make contributions, being the creator of X or Y be the thing to be known for, not the "being creative in coming up with some dumb rom name".
Why, well it works in the opensource community, and if you look at that model, you'd actually see commercial companies entering the picture, sponsoring developments, donating code, paying salaries of developers, and with the option that some of the best devs. here actually can make a living of the work that is done here. Right now there's so much bs going on, a few minor things are real improvements, a lot is just cosmetic, same thing over with a new label or new mix
With the current situation devs spend hours and hours without the remotest chance that this work is taken seriously by the industry. Do you think they go and flash 100 rom's and test'em all to figure out what works.
Also what is better, to have 1000 Roms out there each used by 1000 people, or 10 used by millions.. in fact it would be a lot more. You'd find more mainstream users using the Rom's and you'd find the industry taking a look and things would move forward, there's evolution.
FINAL WORDS
Sorry to interrupt that happy kumbaya session here, and I am sure I'll get lots of hate/fu comments.. which quite frankly I don't care about - I'll just ignore you.
This is an idea, I want some of the leaders here to think about. Taking this mess and unite devs to actually contribute to some meaningful path forward, that is documented, has a standard, and people and eventually the hardware industry or telecoms or 2nd users (often in developing countries) can rely on, rather than being the side-freak show it is now, mostly created by all the 3rd rate devs that just remix while the people that really make progress are being flooded by the all the garbage out there...
Do whatever you wanna do with this comment... if this ends up being some angry comments flame war thread.. I'll just not gonna come back to it...and if no one sees my point.. then well, feel free to keep dwelling your nice little ecosystem here... and just dream about what this could be... for now I'll move on to my faster android device.. so long everyone.. and would be great if at least a fraction here would agree...
UPDATE:
How about having 2 sections. One for official ROMS - Have the community pick a handfull of ROMs. Each one needs to fulfill a basic set of requirements in regards to bug management/reporting, documentation (including credits), supervision (someone in charge approving code/additions). Also each ROM should have a mission statement as what the goal is of the ROM: f.e. stable and fast, or HERO, or Eclair, or max features, or keeping up with latest Android, etc. The goal is people can read the purpose/strategy/mission of each rom and decide which ROM they want to use and support (also financially) and keep track off. Each ROM needs to have 2 or 3 lead devs in charge.. so if one leaves that continuation is not an issue. If I can follow one Rom and use it for months.. I am much more willing to contribute $ then continually having to jump ship because of abandoned Roms...
If we would structure things this way, the leads for each of those main Roms, likely can live on this part time, we'd get dedicated people, and continuous progress, and results people can use... and it would open the development work to a more mainstream audience...
Cool story, bro.
lol.. your probably gonna get flamed....
but, the thing is they are "PORTING" roms that are not made for the G1/MT3G, most dev's are posting them as "unstable" or "experimental". The problem is that the users are expecting too much. The time it took you to write up all that could have been used to post bug reports.
I agree tho, that there needs to be more centralization with bug reports, more team work involved. Cyanogen and his buddies are doing a great job, I hope the other dev's can learn to work with him, contribute to his builds etc...
Also if your flashing rom's like crazy, its probably a hobby, if you want stable go back to stock and unroot your device
CaptainShanks said:
Cool story, bro.
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quoted for lulz
Bravo! Something that needed to be said since I stopped coming here 5 months ago because of all the bs. Facts are as simple as 4.0.4 was the best g1 roms and most stable since.. well ever. Every rom released since has in my opinion sucked HARD. I've flashed every single freaking one released and I've been visually impressed.. cause the themes are cool.. but i've been slow, and crashing apk's constantly. I don't like where the rom community is going. I believe all themed roms should be put into the Theme section and all of them marked unstable. and all the offical roms posted here. I'd even stretch and say this is one of the reasons Cyanogen removed his threads here. He knows his stuff needs more work and didn't want it here until it was ready. But kids and linking his work and messing around cause they're wannabe programmers and really ruining this site... I'm done ranting but kudo's Alec well said.
I'm hoping Froyo w/JIT comes to the G1/MT3G, Cyanogen will probably be the first with a froyo build, it seems the android dev's are pushing out froyo already Let's wait, be patient, submit bug reports, support the dev's that are spending hours a day porting this **** over..
preach on brother man. but yeah, i mean, the community has always had its drama which whatever..... but really, firerat has been the only one doing what this community used to be about which is helping lend support to other devs roms.
i mean even if you look a couple months back, yeah sure you had about 3 maybe 4 diferent hero roms out there and maybe 3 other 1.6 roms plus Cyanogen's stuff..... but then again the community was alot larger (obviously before 2.1 and before the N1). now we have far less devs, but the same amount of roms. i mean, slide port alone has about 5-6 different ports and it just came out. same with legend and everything else. back then it wouldnt be strange to have several devs on one rom. now its one maybe 2 doing stuff on here (besides CM and teamdouche). they embody what the community used to be about, and the turn is really what has pushed some other mods away.
ive had a cliq and i have talked to eugene and barak about it. the mentality of everyone here basically pushed them away. thats why they dev on the cliq/behold. heck. the cliq community pitched in to get one dev a replacement phone after he bricked and its been sent around to several devs for them to pitch in on the phone since it has different bootloader images etc and its not worth going into bc its a crazy rediculous device. the "community cliq" is basically the phone that gets sent around to make sure development keeps going.
not that im saying we should do that but it just shows that other android devices have much tighter knit communities and dont have anywhere near the bs that we do. for example last night, some guy put out a thread SAYING he took a rom put out by other devs that dropped it, and did some work, then resigned and released. no one said he claimed full ownership of it. then someone has to come into his thread and start uselessly contributing. at that time he replied how he felt which is completely understandable, and he was right in ending the post by saying to continue it on twitter if he wanted to continue the conversation to get on twitter or start something in gen discussion (which where this should prob be btw but i understand the reason for putting it here so more would see). these threads should be for releases and bug repports and ideas for development. not saying awesome! or i cant wait to flash this! or most definatly hey everyone i wouldnt bother flashing this bc someone else is releasing this tomorrow and it will waste your time. that pushed another possible dev away. sure he might not have been super dev who would create his own rom from source, but he might have had a different look at something that might have helped speed up a rom or stop an issue.
moral to the story- were all on the same team, we dont need to shoot ourselves in the foot.
*yes i know this post has grammar and spelling errors. this isnt english class. thats my .02 cents
Who said you needed to flash them... For a person with the audacity to tell people that there rom sucks or anything of that matter and you haven't even touched a rom except to download, drag, drop, flash, and flame. People start somewhere not knowing what the hell they are doing to great developers like Cyanogen (and team) Firerat, pershoot, dumfuq, etc. I am dumfounded someone with 82 posts could be so belligerent when they have absolutely no idea how long it takes to theme or make a rom. Before you tell people to grow, I suggest you take your own advice and shove it where the sun don't shine.
If you want stable, unroot and get your *** back to stock...
All I am going to say on this topic.
Not much to say on this since I run cdma hero but I do come over here alot to check up to see if anything new thats good has popped for my girls phone up and although I agree partially with what your saying but your approach is wrong. And if you want a good rom two things you can do is make it your self or buy a sprint hero and come on over to our neck of the woods
Looks like someone forgot to take their 'Happy Pills'.
not sure on this guy himself but ive been looking into it for awhile, have the stock system dumps of a couple of dif sense roms and once i feel as though i have a good understanding of the java aspect/coding of it i fully plan on starting. right now im just messing around with apps. basic stuff. but i would be more than happy if anyone did wanna lend a hand at any time.
i wish that if you wanted to submit a rom, you would do it to a site, that would then take and post the rom with no name on it. users could submit bugs anonymously and the dev can then fix the problems. the users would submit a form having required fields like what type of device, sd card information, any apps added/removed and comments sections as well. this would then make it so it was all annonoymous. it wouldnt be hey have you flashed that new hero 5 v6 rom? or that eclair 3 v2 has a problem with wifi, i reported it and it should be fixed in v3. the only people who would have problems with it are people wanting credit. if no one takes credit and no one gives credit...... then where is the issue. people have problems with person b using person a stuff and getting credit for it. well if theres no way to tell who took what from where then what does it matter? unless your a credit whore it doesnt.
the dev i respect more than anyone out there is Barakinflorida.... guy never asked for a donation from anyone, guy is willing to lend a hand and talk to you about whatever it is you have to ask. by far the nicest guy in the android community. and he did it the right way. untill drizzy put him on blast at the end of his thing outing him as the one who basically helped him when he needed it, he was an unknown besides to the main devs and a small group of others.
and its not like the basic ideal of the OP couldnt be achieved. theres all kinds of sites that you can go to to host where people can go and update with their own edits. and if people want credit who cares. take and have them sign the mods they make or things they add/remove and then throw their name on the big board.
whoever has anything to say about credit, i say this.... take the free apps you use, we wont even use the stock OS' since they get paid by big companies (and i know no one will be able to list a developer who deved on one of the stock os' ne ways), and tell me each person who was on that dev team. sure one or two you might be able to. but on most of them..... you prob wont. ie- level up studios, seesmic. its free. how many people use it? and who created it???
exactly.
XxKOLOHExX said:
Who said you needed to flash them... For a person with the audacity to tell people that there rom sucks or anything of that matter and you haven't even touched a rom except to download, drag, drop, flash, and flame. People start somewhere not knowing what the hell they are doing to great developers like Cyanogen (and team) Firerat, pershoot, dumfuq, etc. I am dumfounded someone with 82 posts could be so belligerent when they have absolutely no idea how long it takes to theme or make a rom. Before you tell people to grow, I suggest you take your own advice and shove it where the sun don't shine.
If you want stable, unroot and get your *** back to stock...
All I am going to say on this topic.
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+1000000000000
The only point the OP got right is that devs will call almost anything ported to Dream/Magic as stable and fast (the worst offenders: zach, king, king, king, and king) but I never really expected that a Sense ROM would go super fast on our first gen devices.
Dude, you guys still don't get it... long as you got those big ass "Donate" buttons, and you idiots keep giving them money, and thus, incentive, it's not gonna stop...
I've said it before and I'll say it again (I myself pulled about 500 bucks from two rom series I made):
Contribute code/knowledge, not money. Learn how to do things yourself.
As long as people can make a buck off of simple stuff like porting, they'll continue doing it, subpar as it's always been.
That'll weed out the file-pushers, something every idiot who can use a browser can do, and leave those who actually have something to contribute doing so.
r0man said:
+1000000000000
the only point the op got right is that devs will call almost anything ported to dream/magic as stable and fast (the worst offenders: Zach, king, king, king, and king) but i never really expected that a sense rom would go super fast on our first gen devices.
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hahahahaha
rom
this rom sucks. I tried to flash it and it just hangs. This dev sucks. I thought my g1 was gonna grow up into a nexus one. This **** ain't stable at all. To the op "FIX THE DAMN SMS"
would be neat to see a tree with branches for Ramhack, crazy O.C kernels, stable non-crazy kernels, etc... so that we can actually compare apples with apples when it comes to speed from all these weird and wonderful hacks. but thats about it...
I didnt know 12 year olds were making roms, maybe we need to call authorities since I sense a sweat shop! Also, I dont see you creating any roms. You and many other *****ing bastards are the main reason why we cant have nice things in life.
you know he is true.
When I had my windows phone its was a lot of good **** going on hear (and the mods were more understanding)
I never post anything here anymore cause it will get deleted by a mod/admin you cant even ask a question without a million people saying why don't you use search.
Anyways thinks for The roms CyanogenMod or Steve cause in IMO he is the only one that deserves it. Every one just trys to make his **** better and by the time they do get it stable he has already released a stable version
RaffieKol said:
you know he is true.
When I had my windows phone its was a lot of good **** going on hear (and the mods were more understanding)
I never post anything here anymore cause it will get deleted by a mod/admin you cant even ask a question without a million people saying why don't you use search.
Anyways thinks for The roms CyanogenMod or Steve cause in IMO he is the only one that deserves it. Every one just trys to make his **** better and by the time they do get it stable he has already released a stable version
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A very sad but true statement indeed. I have seen many people on here asking a question only to be told: wrong thread, use search, MOD close this thread! All of that is just ridiculous.. oh yeah.. goodbye in case I get BANNED!
Well i do agree there is a bunch of unnecessary roms out there. I think it would be more beneficial to give support to the main roms like Cyan, instead of making a new rom out of each release.
Related
I would like to look towards the admins and moderators for guidance on where this should be placed. But I would like to start a bounty on Android 2.0 for the G1. The device has aged gracefully for most of us due to the tireless efforts of the devs here, and I think its time for us, or at least me, to give something back. I am having a hard time even considering a device made by another manufacturer, when ATT 3G bands are available, based on the sole fact that I wouldn't be able to come here and get the hotted builds and customizations.
I would like to start a donation or bounty, most likely through paypal, that anyone could contribute to, to be paid out to the developer that manages to squeeze a usable and feature complete build of 2.0 onto the G1. No I am not quite sure how to decide who wins, but it's just something I would like to see done. I will start of the bounty/donations with a 100USD bid if we can come up with guidelines to follow.
Just a thought..what does everyone else think?
Jubeh dropped a 2.0 rom today. Maxisma, ccyrowski, and cyanogen are all working on 2.0 roms. It sounds like you were thinking it would take an act of god to get 2.0 on the G1. It doesn't. However, the best devs are presently working on it.
Not that bad of an idea. I don't think the dev challenge on the market pays out to any of these custom roms, only apps developed and put on the market. However, I don't know if there is a dev out there that a possible $1,500 will make much of a difference to. I'd think that they would be work on these roms anyway.
Quite the contrary, I know it will happen fast, and I see that only minutes ago a rom was release, but I think we all can agree, no google sync, market, camera, etc..is hardly a fully functional daily driver. It usually takes several iterations of any one rom to get it stable and fully functioning.
Beside that, IMHO, isn't the point, the point was that I wanted to find a way to show my thanks and gratitude to the devs who crank out great software without slapping a pricetag on it. I think that all work should be rewarded, same as the linux projects I contribute too. The G1 is the oldest, slowest device with the least ram...however, I still cling to my precious because of the work thee guys here do, that keep it feeling fresh and as peppy as a spring chicken.
I just thought I might put the idea out to the community, rather than making individual small donations myself to individuals.
unchainedrssr said:
Not that bad of an idea. I don't think the dev challenge on the market pays out to any of these custom roms, only apps developed and put on the market. However, I don't know if there is a dev out there that a possible $1,500 will make much of a difference to. I'd think that they would be work on these roms anyway.
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Yup, they will crank them out regardless lol. But as a engineer by day, I know those little gift cards and small rewards for excellence from mgmt DO go a long way. As a photographer, consultant, and web designer by nite, those big tips that were necessary go a very very long way.
if you want to donate, donate directly to whichever dev you feel deserves it.
im holding out til cyanogen gets 2.0 running, im sure it wont take him long.
Its already being worked on. Cyanogen would of won this hands down though! ;-)
G1-evolve said:
Its already being worked on. Cyanogen would of won this hands down though! ;-)
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Yeah. it may just be to late to consider at this point, maybe next time. Cyanogen is a beast, but Jubeh's rom got out the gate pretty fast! I am surprised to see the solid performance without a tremendous amount of kernel hacking.
i dont think this is a good idea... you might end up with dev's spitting out roms that seems complete and good, but because of the rush and competition the quality underneath isnt that great.(i doubt it would happen cause i dont believe android devs would this, but you never know! esepecially if the bounty would become like 100's of dollars)
like that one guy said just donate to whoever you think deserves it. i'd probably split it up.. give a good big portion to cyanogen.. and then all the other devs that help make these awesome mods possible
Waiting for drivers...
At this point we are waiting on new qualcomm drivers to allow hardware accelerated encoding/decoding. We don't quite have all of the piece to the puzzle needed to get a fully functional Eclair build for the ADP1 from AOSP source.
I'm not knocking the idea suggested here. I'm all for donating to your dev of choice. Just letting some of you know why we are in a holding pattern.
It may very well NOT be in the best interest of the community, which is why I put it out there, it sounds like most people thus far don't feel like its a good idea. Whether it's the vocal minority, or a representative majority, is yet to be seen.
Either way, thanks for the update TheGreenJester, my thumbs are already aching with anticipation.
Just let them be. The devs will release these things when it is ready. Don't pressure them. Giving them these huge amounts of donations like a bounty will only give them pressure
Like someone mentioned, putting a significant monetary incentive on release will only cause developers to spit out subpar ROMs. I'm sure Cyanogen and some others could have a more or less functioning ROM out within hours or just a few days, but it would be immensely slow and probably lacking here or there, with an abundance of bugs. It'd be nearly impossible to judge who releases the first "complete" ROM, since there are so many debateable factors comprising "completeness."
Overall, I'm sure the developers are working as quickly as possible to get their ROMs out, so I don't think they need any more incentive. Of course, donations should be made to thank them, but they should be made to different developers from different people. Rather than leave all but one developer with nothing, users should save their money until a ROM is released, and donate to that developer if they believe that ROM is the best. You know, spread the wealth around.
It's a nice thought, but definitely unnecessary.
Besides, I doubt anyone would be willing to send money over to someone with only 18 posts. No offense, but the internet is full of crooks.
what if we made a 4,5,or 6 dev group together to design the 1 big rom and all the donates went to them, not saying all but ive noticed a good bit of donations are based on fanfare. just sayin.
interesting thread
Actually
veritasaequita said:
what if we made a 4,5,or 6 dev group together to design the 1 big rom and all the donates went to them, not saying all but ive noticed a good bit of donations are based on fanfare. just sayin.
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That's not a bad idea, hmm..
Moved to the appropriate thread as off now.
veritasaequita said:
what if we made a 4,5,or 6 dev group together to design the 1 big rom and all the donates went to them, not saying all but ive noticed a good bit of donations are based on fanfare. just sayin.
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Too many cooks in the kitchen.
People have different styles, different ways of going about things, and it just seems like forcing a couple developers together wouldn't really help. Besides, some variety is good for everyone.
I mean, everyone's been waiting for this update for months; a fully working version by any number of developers is probably no more than a week away, if that. Just have some patience and let the developers do their thing, and then donate when someone comes up with something you like.
No need to disturb the status quo.
Hi,
the idea is not bad, but without HTC drivers it will be not possible to get full working 2.0 build (Camera ... etc).
I think all the devs waiting for the drivers to make stable 2.0 roms.
this thread should be closed now
At this point I could care less if the mods wish to close this thread or not. This thought or statement was generated by the recent release of the 2.1 sdk (i put it in development because it deals with development-unless there is a "i'm tired of the bs section"). I do have to throw my 2 cents on here in regards to the stupidity and lack of sense demonstrated by our devs as well as our users. . Lately there has been a whole lot of bs fighting in regards to dumb ish like "credit" for this that and the 3rd, or "he did this and he did that", or "he stole this from here", and useless competition (although competition can be healthy, at this point its dumb). Let me state that all of you are full of ****. At this point I would've thought that all of you would realize that this entire forum is sorta like a family all coming together for a common goal. Yes if you want to look at it in another way, you can say we got different families spread out i.e Diamond, Android,HD2 etc (y'all get my point), yet I noticed that all that occurs is bs fighting. Like wake the hell up and work together. EVERYONE is dying to get a stable working/near perfect 2.1 rom working on their device (damn even wm dudes are porting android so that's gotta mean something). Right now I know what's up...Y'all got the "I WAS FIRST" syndrome. How bout this. All you devs that know how to make all this ish work for us users (who have no real knowledge of it) get together and work to get 2.1 working on all our devices. THEN branch off with your own special touches, so that we dont have 5million 2.1 roms with the same damn issues. Once the rom is fully stable, then add or take out what you want. Call it 2.1 Official stable, then have all the variations listed under it. We are all loyal to certain devs based on our own taste so it's obvious that we would jump on the branch off roms accordingly.Everybody is grabbing from the same SDK so f'n come together DAMN. As for the users stop comparing. If u like a rom use it and shut up. Dont diss a next mans effort ya dig?!!!!
Could'nt of said it better.I agree.
good idea, just not guna happen. ever. people will always be flawed no matter what anyone wants. just the way it is
adelco93 said:
good idea, just not guna happen. ever. people will always be flawed no matter what anyone wants. just the way it is
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I agree..but still had to air it out with my 2 cents
daeshawn said:
At this point I could care less if the mods wish to close this thread or not. This thought or statement was generated by the recent release of the 2.1 sdk (i put it in development because it deals with development-unless there is a "i'm tired of the bs section"). I do have to throw my 2 cents on here in regards to the stupidity and lack of sense demonstrated by our devs as well as our users. . Lately there has been a whole lot of bs fighting in regards to dumb ish like "credit" for this that and the 3rd, or "he did this and he did that", or "he stole this from here", and useless competition (although competition can be healthy, at this point its dumb). Let me state that all of you are full of ****. At this point I would've thought that all of you would realize that this entire forum is sorta like a family all coming together for a common goal. Yes if you want to look at it in another way, you can say we got different families spread out i.e Diamond, Android,HD2 etc (y'all get my point), yet I noticed that all that occurs is bs fighting. Like wake the hell up and work together. EVERYONE is dying to get a stable working/near perfect 2.1 rom working on their device (damn even wm dudes are porting android so that's gotta mean something). Right now I know what's up...Y'all got the "I WAS FIRST" syndrome. How bout this. All you devs that know how to make all this ish work for us users (who have no real knowledge of it) get together and work to get 2.1 working on all our devices. THEN branch off with your own special touches, so that we dont have 5million 2.1 roms with the same damn issues. Once the rom is fully stable, then add or take out what you want. Call it 2.1 Official stable, then have all the variations listed under it. We are all loyal to certain devs based on our own taste so it's obvious that we would jump on the branch off roms accordingly.Everybody is grabbing from the same SDK so f'n come together DAMN. As for the users stop comparing. If u like a rom use it and shut up. Dont diss a next mans effort ya dig?!!!!
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I concur good sir.
Damn snappin..but daeshawn bro u making hellie sense right now i feel what u saying boah TEAM WORK
Fa'Sho! Glad someone said it!
well spoken. Fight the power!
Agreed 100%
daeshawn said:
At this point I could care less if the mods wish to close this thread or not. This thought or statement was generated by the recent release of the 2.1 sdk (i put it in development because it deals with development-unless there is a "i'm tired of the bs section"). I do have to throw my 2 cents on here in regards to the stupidity and lack of sense demonstrated by our devs as well as our users. .
Lately there has been a whole lot of bs fighting in regards to dumb ish like "credit" for this that and the 3rd, or "he did this and he did that", or "he stole this from here", and useless competition (although competition can be healthy, at this point its dumb). Let me state that all of you are full of ****.
At this point I would've thought that all of you would realize that this entire forum is sorta like a family all coming together for a common goal. Yes if you want to look at it in another way, you can say we got different families spread out i.e Diamond, Android,HD2 etc (y'all get my point), yet I noticed that all that occurs is bs fighting. Like wake the hell up and work together.
EVERYONE is dying to get a stable working/near perfect 2.1 rom working on their device (damn even wm dudes are porting android so that's gotta mean something). Right now I know what's up...Y'all got the "I WAS FIRST" syndrome. How bout this. All you devs that know how to make all this ish work for us users (who have no real knowledge of it) get together and work to get 2.1 working on all our devices.
THEN branch off with your own special touches, so that we dont have 5million 2.1 roms with the same damn issues. Once the rom is fully stable, then add or take out what you want. Call it 2.1 Official stable, then have all the variations listed under it.
We are all loyal to certain devs based on our own taste so it's obvious that we would jump on the branch off roms accordingly.Everybody is grabbing from the same SDK so f'n come together DAMN. As for the users stop comparing. If u like a rom use it and shut up. Dont diss a next mans effort ya dig?!!!!
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You have been aided by paragraphs!
darn u should be the president's top advisor. really gud and bold point
pjcforpres said:
You have been aided by paragraphs!
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Thanks, that made it easier for me to read. Never could read something that wasn't in paragraphs for some reason.
pjcforpres said:
You have been aided by paragraphs!
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lol thanks...i kinda went off without proper editing lol
Agreed 500%
2.1 can be taken on if all devs work together.
BULLY IDEA, mate!!!
i really wish this would go down... hurts my heart to go back and forth, because this doesnt work here, and that doesnt work there...
just one rom, one that WORKS, all the way... and everyone can have credit... makes so much perfect damn sense...
I agree, but bragging rights make donations. The more they "claim" the more people are willing to donate for such a "great" developer. For example, I wouldnt be surprised if Cyan bought his Nexus from his donation fund.
bubonik said:
I agree, but bragging rights make donations. The more they "claim" the more people are willing to donate for such a "great" developer. For example, I wouldnt be surprised if Cyan bought his Nexus from his donation fund.
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I have donated to many of the developers, and you know what, I got some shocking replys.... and not just one line "I don't get many, thanks"... actual responses thanking me for actually donating and showing my support.
Cyan might very well, he has a huge following beyond xda, but most of the developers on this site struggle with donations. There is but a handful in all the forums on here that actually get a decent # of donations.
i agree with everything the OP stated....
i remember when Manila2D hit the streets for the first time and all the talented developers banded together endlessly day and night to make it available to all devices after making sure it works fully
mission: common goal, we all want the same thing, then why not work together to accomplish it?? then do whatever you want with it
Not gonna happen.
Your argument about making a working rom is flawed.
Here is why:
The source code is not available.
Drivers are incompatible, thus having the same things broken. If the devs had to all colab with eachother that would cause frustration between them because of the different tweaks to get the same thing accomplished.
IF the full source was available and it was easy as building and working out the bugs from there, that would be a different story.
35% agree.
PS:
Another thing, there is only 1 2.1 rom that I would care about and I really haven't seen any others posted to be honest. There may be other 2.x roms like 2.0.1 from the droid/milestone, and espresso/hero but those are different with different challenges, but like you said have the same general problems (GPU acceleration and camera) which won't be fixed by any magical dev-ing. NCommander might be able to do a good job with reverse engineering the camera driver, but I would bet on flaws especially when we know the driver exists and will be released so there is no use with people *****ing (working yet?, does the camera work now that the sdk is out? etc).
RE: ▽▲ AXURA Vibrant Edition ▼△ Development Stopped.
First I'd like to say that was a punk move. Secondly, there's plenty of other great ROMs out there. I'm not sad, nor upset. I'm not going to kiss Master's ass. (I'm a software developer, I could take my own time to do this same ****) I'm also not going to flame or trash him (That'd be a waste of bandwidth and time).
The politics on these forums is ridiculous. You get something for free and then everyone *****es when things don't go their way. Devs take their personal time to provide you with something 'cool' or 'different' and you have a few select people ruining it for others. I don't 100% agree with 'Donating' to get 'early releases', but whatever. It is what it is. I'll roll with 2.0.6 AKA Axura Final until I get bored or something different catches my eye.
I'll admit, I really liked the theming done to it. I'm so sick of black and stupid ugly colors (I have a bit of a desiger background) that a lot of people call 'cool' or thinks 'looks great!'. And after searching for a ROM that didn't look like total ****, I actually considered getting involved in the theming community. We'll see.
Haters will hate.
I'm just taken away by this, I go out to eat with ole girl, come back and everything is stopped. I'm keeping 2.1 one for a while now, its destined to be a relic. But it is a damn good ROM, and skoal had to **** it up for everyone. I am sure he has recieved TONS of PMs from pissed off followers of Master, and rightfully so. However, I will not partake in anything like that.
I'm hoping this is just a phase that will blow over. Master came out of no where, it a place dominated by the "heavy hitters" and made a name for himself.
Good, mature post.
When somethings turns from being appreciated into being expected...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
I don't understand why a single leak is being blown so big.
How do you think we got the froyo release? ---(Leaked)
You dont see samsung *****ing and pouting about stopping development (which is minimal anyway).
I am running the captivate port for the 2.0 rom and hands down it is the fastest and most stable rom in our rom dev.
xtremekilla09 said:
I don't understand why a single leak is being blown so big.
How do you think we got the froyo release? ---(Leaked)
You dont see samsung *****ing and pouting about stopping development (which is minimal anyway).
I am running the captivate port for the 2.0 rom and hands down it is the fastest and most stable rom in our rom dev.
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Its not all WHAT was done, but what was SAID, and how it went down. Blatant disrespect.
xtremekilla09 said:
I don't understand why a single leak is being blown so big.
How do you think we got the froyo release? ---(Leaked)
You dont see samsung *****ing and pouting about stopping development (which is minimal anyway).
I am running the captivate port for the 2.0 rom and hands down it is the fastest and most stable rom in our rom dev.
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Click to collapse
+1
When we try to stop the leaking of leaked roms then I think it's getting out of control.
I can fully appreciate Master +all the other devs for the work but the fact is, one person gets the rom early and Master calls foul... big deal. Get over it. I wonder how many leaked roms from other devs have fallen into Master's lap.
+1
couped said:
Good, mature post.
When somethings turns from being appreciated into being expected...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
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Exactly my thoughts.
razormy said:
+1
When we try to stop the leaking of leaked roms then I think it's getting out of control.
I can fully appreciate Master +all the other devs for the work but the fact is, one person gets the rom early and Master calls foul... big deal. Get over it. I wonder how many leaked roms from other devs have fallen into Master's lap.
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This is the first I've been involved with any ROM outside of the G1 realm (CyanogenMod) and I don't know of any other project where you can donate to get special treatment. Honestly, that's where the problem started. Dealing with money and VIP status. Cyanogen doesn't release anything until he's ready. Mainly so he can avoid the barrage of "X doesn't work, plz/fix/k/thx!". I also don't think if a few people get ZOMG v6.0.1.2-FINAL, that he'd be too upset.
There is a sense of quality control. You don't want a lot of people to get an early release to prevent the spamming of complaints. It's distracting and takes away from your project plan. If this was a real dev shop there'd be a bug tracking list and a handful of devs hacking away at their assigned tickets.
Overall, (both parties included, or and I guess the leaker too) it's a punk move. What are we? 12? (Sometimes I think we are! after all the bickering I read)
Meh... :|
It is a shame. While I wasn't going to donate to get a pre-release copy, I was going to donate after the final version was released assuming it worked fine as a thank you for his hard work (I had a few issues with 2.05 and was waiting before flashing again).
It is his right though, even if it is confusing when considering the circumstances of how these types of ROMs got started in the first place.
This forum is so crappy now..
everyone wants rewarded and begs for money
Master I thought was the worse...
icebrkr said:
This is the first I've been involved with any ROM outside of the G1 realm (CyanogenMod) and I don't know of any other project where you can donate to get special treatment. Honestly, that's where the problem started. Dealing with money and VIP status. Cyanogen doesn't release anything until he's ready. Mainly so he can avoid the barrage of "X doesn't work, plz/fix/k/thx!". I also don't think if a few people get ZOMG v6.0.1.2-FINAL, that he'd be too upset.
There is a sense of quality control. You don't want a lot of people to get an early release to prevent the spamming of complaints. It's distracting and takes away from your project plan. If this was a real dev shop there'd be a bug tracking list and a handful of devs hacking away at their assigned tickets.
Overall, (both parties included, or and I guess the leaker too) it's a punk move. What are we? 12? (Sometimes I think we are! after all the bickering I read)
Meh... :|
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Agreed. Thanks for this thread. I hated reading the last one because of all the nonsense. A new rom will come and the fools will be foolish.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
kingrat said:
This forum is so crappy now..
everyone wants rewarded and begs for money
Master I thought was the worse...
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Let's not trash talk or name names... ok?
problem with forums like this
The problem with forums like this is they break out something like this:
10% 12-18
40% 19-26
40% 27-45
10% 46-60+ (where I fall into)
So, since age and maturity is the problem (or lack of maturity) there is no way to regulate that, not in an open forum....we are just left to self regulation........and as such, it will always be imperfect.
What is important is to be respectful and mature in the treatment (doing what they ask) of each other. The leaked rom from one friend to another is not really the core issue...........it is the public proclamation "Hey I got over on you" that demonstrates both the lack of respect and lack of maturity. This adolescent behavior (which the guilty one thinks is cute) damages our experience in this forum or in other forums. A Shame really.......
This forum gets ridiculous full of ungrateful people it really ruins development of great phones, people start to think they deserve something that was given out of good faith to help them hence original 2.2 leak
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Lets see if I can say this without sounding rude... Fok master, do the **** your self, a lot of his **** is off leaked stuff and others work...
he should be happy someone wanted his **** that bad...
By the way donating for a early release isn't a donation, thats a payment..... Never using his rom again, imma go stock and make the rom myself, you all could to its simple....
EDIT: Hell I remember when Master was trying to over run BIONIX lol Dude was all in their business... Trying to side help their ****. Man common Master, This is a punk move, for this You will never get a second look from me... Peace man, Just needed them donations/ Payments huh
Not allowing people to distribute his ROM is a violation of the GPL. He may ask, but he has no basis to. He built a ROM based on pre-released code and Open Source code and has no valid position to stop the same. Sure, he can get pissy if people do, that is certainly his right, but the moment he makes it available to anyone that person clearly has the right to distribute it unless it has actual proprietary software on it.
The person asking was within their rights
The person who gave it out was within their rights
Master getting pissed and stopping further development for people exercising their rights is completely within his rights.
Life goes on, shame, I was waiting for 2.1, time to move on.
kingrat said:
This forum is so crappy now..
everyone wants rewarded and begs for money
Master I thought was the worse...
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I've seen you in Master's thread, you've contributed nothing but disrespect and you're part of the reason he closed his thread.
FYI, Master isn't discontinuing development. He is choosing not to share with XDA. Anyone that is interested in his work can still find it on his forum.
Seems a lot of Devs are keeping their work on their own sites. From what I've seen on this site in the last few weeks, I don't blame them.
I think it's messed up for those that paid for his roms now to get no support.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
First of all thanks for making this thread OP. I want to get a few things out here as well.
Very immature on the part of everyone involved. Seriously grow up and get on with it.
This donation stuff is nothing more than payment and that is right. But the payment isn't so much for the software as it is the help in putting it together and getting it all to play nice. Sure you could piece it all together yourself if you had enough free time it isn't THAT hard. Or like me if your time is more valuable you can sling homeboy <INSERT NAME HERE> $10 and have him put it together for you. I value my time greatly and I lead a very busy life so I am very happy paying someone $10 if it even saves 30 minutes of my day. I am highly skilled and do computer security work for a living so it has nothing to do with knowledge or ability.
So lets make that clear. You are donating for their time not the actual software itself. Some of these guys spend a ton of time on their ROMs and if I can get that for a piddly $10-$25 donation then I say that is a deal. And on top of that he even offers personalized support when this ROM doesn't work.
I don't think the issue here is requiring donations because if they didn't nobody would donate so that is only fair. And it is more than reasonable for them to try to get some reward for time and effort invested. Especially if they have a website to support!
jnutz said:
First of all thanks for making this thread OP. I want to get a few things out here as well.
Very immature on the part of everyone involved. Seriously grow up and get on with it.
This donation stuff is nothing more than payment and that is right. But the payment isn't so much for the software as it is the help in putting it together and getting it all to play nice. Sure you could piece it all together yourself if you had enough free time it isn't THAT hard. Or like me if your time is more valuable you can sling homeboy <INSERT NAME HERE> $10 and have him put it together for you. I value my time greatly and I lead a very busy life so I am very happy paying someone $10 if it even saves 30 minutes of my day. I am highly skilled and do computer security work for a living so it has nothing to do with knowledge or ability.
So lets make that clear. You are donating for their time not the actual software itself. Some of these guys spend a ton of time on their ROMs and if I can get that for a piddly $10-$25 donation then I say that is a deal. And on top of that he even offers personalized support when this ROM doesn't work.
I don't think the issue here is requiring donations because if they didn't nobody would donate so that is only fair. And it is more than reasonable for them to try to get some reward for time and effort invested. Especially if they have a website to support!
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I couldn't agree more.
This is becoming more and more common. Does it bother anybody else? I mean i dont lose sleep over it, but it kind of ruins the "community" feel and turns things into more of a business.
Donations are slowly turning into payments. This is precisely why i PERSONALLY never believed in the word donation in the development world, but lets not get into that debate.
I mean, if a dev/dev team is really good, im sure they get more than enough donations to fund their work, seeing as though im always seeing people on the forums talk about how theyll donate or how much they donated. I feel like whats happening is a dev/dev team starts out strong, and at first is just soaking up the notoriety amongst users, and understandably so. But as time goes, and their knowledge and popularity grows, they realize "hey, we could probably make some serious money off this" but then they realize that that just goes against the whole "doing it in your free time" or "doing what we love doing" concepts, so they insist on continuing to label it a "donation".
Let me be clear, I have absolutely no problem with a dev/dev team expecting money in order to grant access to something that is popular. Thats what a lot of governments are founded on, and these guys definitely deserve a little spending money for all of the smiles they put on peoples faces. I just dont like the abuse of the word "donation" that takes place. Why dont you just say "you have to pay for it"? Cause thats pretty much what is going down......
This isnt directed at anyone in particular, im simply curious to see how other people feel about it.
I feel the same way. Label it as payment/charge/etc and it will be good. Just dont use the word donation when only a donation gets the user access to an area of forums, kernels, roms, other, software. Its just not correct to do
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
It's incredibly silly. In many cases these people are charging for tweaking something that they didn't create and don't even have the rights to redistribute.
When you get right down to it, every ROM here that's built off of one of the leaked Froyo builds is in murky territory. Although parts of those leaks are GPL'd, there are tons of proprietary Samsung bits in there, and if Samsung felt like it they could slap everybody with a C&D on redistributing that stuff.
On the one hand, the people who distribute leaks (and tweaked ROMs based off of those leaks) for free are taking risks by doing so, and they're doing it to help the community. But on the other, you have people who take those leaks, apply their own tweaks to them, and then charge for the completed product. Those guys are basically profiting from the work that others took a risk in releasing to the public, which is ridiculous.
The best way to deal with it is to not simply not "donate" to people who pull such shenanigans.
JeremyNT said:
It's incredibly silly. In many cases these people are charging for tweaking something that they didn't create and don't even have the rights to redistribute.
When you get right down to it, every ROM here that's built off of one of the leaked Froyo builds is in murky territory. Although parts of those leaks are GPL'd, there are tons of proprietary Samsung bits in there, and if Samsung felt like it they could slap everybody with a C&D on redistributing that stuff.
On the one hand, the people who distribute leaks (and tweaked ROMs based off of those leaks) for free are taking risks by doing so, and they're doing it to help the community. But on the other, you have people who take those leaks, apply their own tweaks to them, and then charge for the completed product. Those guys are basically profiting from the work that others took a risk in releasing to the public, which is ridiculous.
The best way to deal with it is to not simply not "donate" to people who pull such shenanigans.
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Its very important that we dont mention names, to avoid flaming.....but i know exactly who you are talking about in particular....
The trend started with kingklick and everyone was all up in arms about it
But eventually the rest of the developers followed and now its OK for them and they accept it LOL hypocrites
This is another reason making my decision on NS much easier
Some real development will be underway i miss my N1 XDA support back in the day
Not that i dont appreciate what others have done here just most of it wasn't my cup of tea with exception of Eugene's work
But he left for a reasonable reason too much BS but his work is still freely available
It would be nice to hear a devs take on this but on the other hand this could just start a huge ordeal I understand what you guys are saying but I don't think this thread is going to help any development at all in fact it may even be counter productive the dev group is growing for the vibrant but I wouldn't say there are enough devs to start pissing people off and making them lose interest in xda all together if its not one thing its another nothing is free in this world eventually if you want something ahead of everyone else you gotta pony up the cash I went to a street fair once at the gate was a booth labeled donations they didn't deny me access when I refused to pay but I didn't enjoy the full access everyone else did when they received theyre wrist bands that got them free drinks your not paying to get in your paying for the cause and the work and the time it takes to create something that millions can enjoy ......i wouldn't get to butt hurt about it its the way of the world be it in day to day life forums or whatever else you think it applies to just my opinion we're all entitled to them I suppose
V5 custom vibrant
I take back allot of what i said apparently some are still releasing roms here
willsnews said:
It would be nice to hear a devs take on this but on the other hand this could just start a huge ordeal I understand what you guys are saying but I don't think this thread is going to help any development at all in fact it may even be counter productive the dev group is growing for the vibrant but I wouldn't say there are enough devs to start pissing people off and making them lose interest in xda all together if its not one thing its another nothing is free in this world
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In terms of my opinion, and what im trying to say, the paragraph in bold in the OP highlights my exact problem. I understand the concept and the need for devs to ask for money in whatever form, and i have absolutely no issue with that. But thats what they are, PAYMENTS. The only thing im questioning is why they insist on calling them donations. They are not donations when they are in the format of a transaction.
do·na·tion noun \dō-ˈnā-shən\
Definition of DONATION
: the act or an instance of donating: as a : the making of a gift especially to a charity or public institution b : a free contribution : gift
trans·ac·tion noun \tran-ˈzak-shən, tran(t)-ˈsak-\
Definition of TRANSACTION
1a : something transacted; especially : an exchange or transfer of goods, services, or funds <electronic transactions>
Theres just something about it that seems a bit unethical to me, almost like a bit of a marketing scam. "Donate" has a much friendlier, less threatening tone to it than "payment". Maybe theres a mindset in place that people will be more inclined to "donate" rather than "pay". Im just trying to figure out why they cant just call it like it is.
Regardless of how you may feel about it, theres no question that sometimes it feels like our "community" is faltering in favor of making money.
------------
In terms of the devs leaving XDA because of threads like this? i mean come on, we are talking about word definitions here...not insulting peoples families.....
Donation: ASK for CONTRIBUTIONS DURING development
Payment: REQUIRE COMPENSATION for COMPLETED product
I haven't ever seen a developer require payment for a complete product here on XDA. Some give early access to buggy ROMs and kernels, but that's it.
I don't. see anyone asking for a payment to get a full version of a rom. some gets it early when you donated but still the ones who didn't still gets the rom later. If that's how they want it to be then let it be.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Used to have "buy me a beer" links up at the most a couple of years ago. Seems there was more collaboration among devs like LucidRem who was super nice on G1 apps to SD. Was constantly being tweaked by seperate devs to get a better partition solution for example.
Don't blame me, blame my keyboard's autocorrection algorithm.
Any developer that does that is very clearly breaking the law. They could be very easily sued by anyone that cared.
Haha, even if that's true, which I don't think it is.....i think that would be taking things just a tad too far
Sent from my pocket rocket!
I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM WITH IT!!
I have been on with Android since Day 1. XDA and the developers who come here are the only reason I am so passionate about my phone and android. Without these 2 things a large part of my "hobby" would be severely hampered.
Developers do a tremendous amount for us. Can you imagine being on JI6 right now? I feel that they get barely anything in donations.... if this is a method for them to beta with a small group and reward those who support them/him, than I think they should take advanatage of that... and if it leads to developers earning a bit more than they would normally, awesome for them.
Cause you know what....
When developers are happy.... WE are all happy!!!
I mean come on, they release them to the public anyway.... is it okay for you to whine about not getting something sooner, that you had no part in creating/making.... what gives YOU the right???
PS, both R14 and Nero_Beta are very tasty... can't wait to get my hands on Axura 2.2 soon also.
maybe we should point out who the REAL developers are, and who are the wannabe's like people that take others work and just theme it.
Maybe just maybe then, these people that are rushing to hand over fists of money would donate to the people that actually put things out, and not the winzip blender wannabe's.
I "had" respect for some of these people until I first hand decompiled their rom to find out it wasn't there's at all. Adding a theme and transitions to Windows, does not make it mine.. how hard can that be to understand?
s15274n said:
I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM WITH IT!!I mean come on, they release them to the public anyway.... is it okay for you to whine about not getting something sooner, that you had no part in creating/making.... what gives YOU the right???.
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well i really hope youre not referring to me......i have a good paying a job and if i really wanted to pay for a ROM i would, but i dont......check my signature, i AM still runnning JI6, i dont use Macnut or Obsidian (neither ever required donations). I am speaking purely based on observation, not personal experience.
I mean if i was stuck stuck with JI6 forever, i wouldnt be thatdisappointed, because i have my phone setup exactly how i want it. Im not a fan of leaked ROMs, never have been. So i wont be waiting up all night waiting for Nero to go public either.
Please dont confuse me for one of those crybabies who just HAS to get their greedy fingers on the newest ROM right away just to be with the "in-crowd"...thats not what im about
s15274n said:
if this is a method for them to beta with a small group and reward those who support them/him, than I think they should take advanatage of that... and if it leads to developers earning a bit more than they would normally, awesome for them
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please dont misunderstand me, you have to read carefully what im trying to say....i have absolutely NO ISSUE with devs receiving money....none. they often deserve it. i just dont like the way the concept of "donating" is presented sometimes. The way you outlined it ^^ is a great way of wording the way it SHOULD be appraoched....unfortunately it isnt always approached that way, and THOSE are the instances im referring to in my OP
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_General_Public_License
This issue is that a custom ROM is built upon the work of thousands of other people that all licensed their work under the GPL because they wanted to it to be used that way. When someone takes their work and sells it, they are expressly misusing the work of others.
I think its fantastic that people are willing to put their time into developing ROMs, but at the same time it's very disrespectful and illegal to not follow the wishes of the people whose work the ROMs are built on. Ultimately, ROMs are very, very minor tweaks to what has been the result of almost twenty years and millions of man hours of work. If you want to be a part of that, that's great, but you have to play by the rules. After all, those rules are what made ROM development possible.
I can understand why they do it. Most people don't know how many hours go into just developing a theme let a long a full rom. So I understand them wanting to make some money for their time, but I also do agree with people who think they should not have a donation requirement to download, they should label it as a pay to download / theme or rom.
Here is an example of why I think devs do a required donation:
Here is the Nexus Theme I made (Did not ask for donations): http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=860198
To date this has had: 318 downloads
Amount of donations recieved: $0
Time Spent making it: 10+ Hrs
Here is the Frobuntu theme I made (Asked for Donations): http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=846285
To date this has had: 333 Downloads
Amount of donations recieved: $20
Time Spent Making it: 20+ hrs
So I can see why they do this. It makes a difference when you ask for the donations, but... again there should not be a required donation. That is called "selling" your rom/theme. They could do it the way I did the Frobuntu rom where I "Highly Suggested" a donation amount in big letters in the header of the post, but still gave it away to those who cannot pay.
Just my two cents. I would never flame or look down upon a dev for choosing to require a donation, that is their decision. I just choose not to do that myself.
No offense but most custom roms have a couple issues, needing to be fixed in the next release, meaning in a few days your gonna have to flash again, then the cycle continues, another bug so needing a new release... But the new release isn't faster, better or any cooler than the release before...lol
I'm on stock jk6 with my tweaks, my mods, and my setup, I was on customs for a bit, but all this donation crap has made me not wanting to try custom roms from anyone here, especially with all the drama :d
Needless to say I've never donated anything other than to xda itself..... I would never give my money to people just doing this for fun just like I do.... Donate to me then lol...
Anyways, id advise against donating to get a early release that ain't any better than the one before....lol
All I can say is suckeeeeers... Sorry but true, you have been hustled...
P.s. Anyone with a donate to me sign in their sig or whatever are completely retarded imo..... Lol
I understand, after 2+ years, that ROM development and the forums for the EVO are gonna slow down. Devs are going to move on to other devices, but there is a really disturbing trend here that is irritating the hell out of me.
ROMs used to be released as Aplha's Beta's RC's, final, etc. You could look at the OP and see everything about the ROM. Devs took their time crafting something unique.
Now, I'm seeing these ROMS come out at a rapid pace and I'm not liking it for several reasons.
1) Poorly written OP's that don't even list the Android base version or the kernel, etc.
2) The same ROM with different names and the only real differences are a few 3rd party apps, or a slight theme change.
3) ROMs released as finals, with a ton of bugs. I'm not talking about FFC, Netflix, 4G bugs on ICS/JB ROMS; I'm talking about ROMS with no Wifi, for example. The majority use WiFi. Why the HELL would you release something where one of the most important aspects doesn't even work?? It's like not paying attention to details is suddenly OK
Settings that don't stick. Sounds that don't stick. Constant System Process Errors. These are pre-release errors, and I don't see them getting fixed, because it's become like a race to port every other ROM from every other device and tweak to boot up on the Evo, then letting it go.
I REALLY wish I could take the time and learn how to properly cook up my own ROM. My OCD of paying attention to details would probably make it great.
Hipkat thats the best thing ive heard in weeks,someone finally speaking out about the BS thats being posted now days and its like everyones in a race to see who can come out with the most borked roms,lol,like you said,they are all the same,except the apps and some themeing and half of them cant do that either,i'm sure this isnt meant to be a bashing session,its just getting rediculous with the drama some are causing and all the crappy ass roms being released,some guys do know what their doing,theres been 1 or 2 that i've put out that i shouldnt have,but come on guys at least take your time and try to do it right,only takes a little common sense and effort.If you havent noticed,over half the members and devs have left because of the BS,when i started doing roms,it was fun,nows its just a big joke,lol.
I dont care if anyone gets pissed about this and i'm sure they will,but oh well life goes on,you will eventually get over it.
It's definitely not a bashing, but a call for Devs to take a little more time and do it right
HipKat said:
It's definitely not a bashing, but a call for Devs to take a little more time and do it right
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I don't Dev, Cook, Build, Port or whatever term is used so I have alot of respect for those that do. With that being said I would also state that I am in complete agreement with you and Diablo.
I look at damned near every topic started in the Dev forum just to see what is being made. I take weeks to look at a new ROM and follow the threads to see what comes of it (with the only exception being Mazda's new CAJB ROM. On that one I went with name recognition and am pleased that I did)
In regards to the mass influx of ROMs I'll say this: If you guys don't take the time to keep up with each item you produce, work on bugs, add new options, answer questions from the users then you'll soon find yourself out of favor. Your reputation here, just like in RL, is something of value. It takes very little to earn trust, respect and loyalty. Most people will always give you the benefit of the doubt. Do something to devalue that trust and it can be nearly impossible to regain.
I think some wisdom can be gleaned by the following quote:
jamieg71 said:
I've seen devs, chefs, hackers, w/e, that make statements like "I do this for myself and just choose to share" or things to that effect. I call BS. I won't speak for anyone else but myself when I say, I do this for the thrill of it, for the challenge, to learn, and to share. I'd be lying if I said I didn't care about d/l numbers or that seeing my thanks meter grow did not give me some juvenalalistic (is that a word?) thrill. The fact is, guys like me doing this stuff get off on it...
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We know why you do it, and if you want to keep your junkies and not lose your rep, then make sure you take the time to Develop your craft and thereby make a better product for the masses...
Sorry for the rant
Well said, and nice quote from Jamie, who, btw, you notice took a lot of time with Reloaded
HipKat said:
Well said, and nice quote from Jamie, who, btw, you notice took a lot of time with Reloaded
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...lol, 'nuff said!
I think everyone needs to remember the difference between Development and Port / Theme / Tweak / Mod. That simple labeling would be a start
Over in Evo LTE land, they have finally recognized this distinction by creating entirely separate forums for "HTC EVO 4G LTE Android Development" and "HTC EVO 4G LTE Original Android Development"
One is for tweaks or ports, and the other is for people who actually compile something.
I made a request for the same original dev section but got denied as our device is to old.
I agree that there are a ton of ports and not enough originality or bugs being fixed. What I would like to state us that the op is stating that a lot have some third party apps but that's like calling the kettle black. You yourself have a rerelease of a miui from where all you did was slap your team name in the thread. I believe the original thread still exists. I'm not calling you out at all but at the same time the work that goes into all these ports or mods or what not is a ton. I myself have my rom thread and some new stuff coming out but I don't call people out usually on their stuff unless its a pure kang(meaning an actual using of ur work with out permission) not a duplicate port.
Yeah some of the revs here could put a little more work in and for sure learn to organize their rom thread a whole hell of a lot better but at the same time who else do u see bringing the newest and best to a two year old device.
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It's not that they have 3rd party apps, all ROMS do, it's that some ROMS are just the same ROM with a few different 3rd party apps, or a slight variation in theming, and I mean real slight, but tbh, my biggest beef was with the OP not even listing what kernel is in the ROM, or if it has A2SD or a way to get it working, or the version of Android it's based on, etc.
Add in bug reports that get ignored or the person posting the report gets demeaned for it.
Mostly, it's just the sloppiness that I see going on over the last few months. Too hasty to release something without really perfecting it first
HipKat said:
It's not that they have 3rd party apps, all ROMS do, it's that some ROMS are just the same ROM with a few different 3rd party apps, or a slight variation in theming, and I mean real slight, but tbh, my biggest beef was with the OP not even listing what kernel is in the ROM, or if it has A2SD or a way to get it working, or the version of Android it's based on, etc.
Add in bug reports that get ignored or the person posting the report gets demeaned for it.
Mostly, it's just the sloppiness that I see going on over the last few months. Too hasty to release something without really perfecting it first
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I can agree with that there. sloppy op's without all the listings of what is added or taken out and what its running with a q & a section amoung other things.
I feel like we developers and porters alike should make a check list. Every time you want to post something, run through the list and then once everything is there, read again. If it seems like a business proposition (detailed, understandable, provocative and complete) then, that is the right moment to unleash it.
Thats exactly what i do,i make a list in notepad of what i want to do to the rom,then i go through and check it off as i go,wahla,i have a channelog,so to speak,then post it on the thread.Just like in my 4 Kornerz thread..... http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1612933
Same thing I'm gonna do as I try and update this MIUI GB ROM
What's funny is that the main reason I always hated opening ROM threads is because I'm completely OCD and feel like the posts have to make perfect sense. I try for my thread to make a little bit of sense at least at this point. And I try to keep change logs, bug reports & FAQs up to date.
But then again, I only have one ROM thread in this device section.
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Current Device: HTC EVO 4G LTE | ROM: toasted-deck CM10 | Kernel: Stock
Kernel should be listed.
a2sd included/not included AND if a specific version is known to work/not work.
Gapps included/not included (you can usually tell from the size of the ROM, but still)
SuperSU vs. Superuser
Wifi and data working/not working
Boot animation audio (can lead to uncomfortable moments when flashing in restrooms, in bed, around family or in TSA security lines--- yes, all personal experiences)
Probably much more...
RootzWiki kinda sorta tried to standardize some of that in OP headers. Would be cool to see that concept expanded in a visually pleasing manner. But, I know people like sprucing up their OP to their liking. Example:
Source: https://github.com/s...mmc-ra-recovery
Mod Type: Recovery Difficulty: Moderate Mod Status: Kang Mod Base: Carrier:
Requires Root: Yes Apply In: Fastboot Optional: Themed Optional: Android Version:
I think ports are great. If the developer is planning on just bringing it over and leaving it alone I think that's fine, but they should be upfront and say "Hey, I did this. Probably won't do any more with it myself, but anyone is welcome to add to it. Otherwise, enjoy."
What I'd really like to see is the people who respond first after an OP + OP reserved do something with that slot besides planting their flag of happening to be online at the right time (e.g. "First. Looks cool!"). They could take the lead, especially for very active developers with many ROMs and threads, to follow that thread and maintain an updated ROM Cheat Sheet/Known Fixes post. How many times have you followed the development of a ROM and things like the new boot animation didn't make it into the next update because the developer forgot. Then people post, "Hey, what happened to the boot ani" five or six times. Then a nice person posts it on Dropbox. Then a few people say other things. Then people repeat the question. Then people point them to the Dropbox link two pages back. Repeat. Repeat. Probably wouldn't matter though since a lot of people never read the OP. They sure wouldn't read that. I'll shut up.
smelkus said:
Kernel should be listed.
a2sd included/not included AND if a specific version is known to work/not work.
Gapps included/not included (you can usually tell from the size of the ROM, but still)
SuperSU vs. Superuser
Wifi and data working/not working
Boot animation audio (can lead to uncomfortable moments when flashing in restrooms, in bed, around family or in TSA security lines--- yes, all personal experiences)
Probably much more...
RootzWiki kinda sorta tried to standardize some of that in OP headers. Would be cool to see that concept expanded in a visually pleasing manner. But, I know people like sprucing up their OP to their liking. Example:
Source: https://github.com/s...mmc-ra-recovery
Mod Type: Recovery Difficulty: Moderate Mod Status: Kang Mod Base: Carrier:
Requires Root: Yes Apply In: Fastboot Optional: Themed Optional: Android Version:
I think ports are great. If the developer is planning on just bringing it over and leaving it alone I think that's fine, but they should be upfront and say "Hey, I did this. Probably won't do any more with it myself, but anyone is welcome to add to it. Otherwise, enjoy."
What I'd really like to see is the people who respond first after an OP + OP reserved do something with that slot besides planting their flag of happening to be online at the right time (e.g. "First. Looks cool!"). They could take the lead, especially for very active developers with many ROMs and threads, to follow that thread and maintain an updated ROM Cheat Sheet/Known Fixes post. How many times have you followed the development of a ROM and things like the new boot animation didn't make it into the next update because the developer forgot. Then people post, "Hey, what happened to the boot ani" five or six times. Then a nice person posts it on Dropbox. Then a few people say other things. Then people repeat the question. Then people point them to the Dropbox link two pages back. Repeat. Repeat. Probably wouldn't matter though since a lot of people never read the OP. They sure wouldn't read that. I'll shut up.
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LOL, you forgot 'Lather, Rinse...'
Who else clicked the link
While I agree with the OP 100%, I think at the end of the day there is NO rule that states that you need to do all that..... This is for FREE, and therefore we should be happy with we get on our EVO's nowadays..... I wish developers took their time to put a fully detail change log, bug list Q&A's section, but honestly if we don't like the way certain devs handle their threads, then just move on to the next Rom either way I don't develop, and I can figure out most stuff regarding a Rom by myself now, so I'm just thankful for all the roms out for the og EVO.
Edit: what I would like to know is what's going on with all the Rom teams flip flopping, what's up with that? Sorry to go off topic, lol.
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Sorry, but while I appreciate the freeness of the work done and am grateful for it, there should still be enough info to identify exactly what you're getting into.
Perfect example. A lot of ICS/JB ROMS require the patched A2SD file. Good luck finding it. Why not add a link to the OP?? Same with GAPPS
And the date that it was released is much appreciated, although not as critical. The Android version if it's a Sense and/or GB ROM is definitely something that should be there, along with the kernel.
PHE-NOM said:
Edit: what I would like to know is what's going on with all the Rom teams flip flopping, what's up with that? Sorry to go off topic, lol.
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Two teams merged. Some people have left teams. I myself left td to not look partial towards a certain group.
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