Database Users

[DISCUSSION] ANDROID/MAEMO/LINUX on HD2 (Discussion Thread)

Okay I'm a lurker on the developer thread and I thought it best to create a separate topic where everyone can talk about it (or complain that people can't shoehorn an OS on a device fast enough for their liking despite the fact that people are doing it for free basically) without all this "DEVELOPER DISCUSSION ONLY AUGUGHGH" "but we don't know where else to post about it"-ism
so this thread is for the non-developer discussion of said project:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=578575
(won't let me past "outside links"(?) cos I'm a n00b for some reason)
so there's no excuse now for anyone who posts "when is it done?" in the other thread
Also, a few pointers since some people don't get it and I'd rather save a developers/non-developers civil war thing.
How long will it take? - You're looking at about a year at least. Remember, it's installing an OS on a system that isn't meant to even have it. It's going to take a hell of a lot of time to guesswork and muck around with this stuff.
(all the people moaning on engadget re: the US HD2 launch being all "HTC release an android update right now " and then being all "OH XDA WILL SORT IT OUT" (because apparently xda is their overnight miracle machine) annoy me something chronic for this reason.)
remember too that these people are more or less doing this for free.
Can't you just install the Nexus/Supersonic/etc. rom on there? - No.
from what I understand of the whole thing (I'm not a developer so take this with a pinch of salt) there's an awful lot of different code and such on these things which means it isn't as easy to just "install" it on another OS. It's like asking why you just can't fit a jaguar engine into a VW beetle. It could work, but there'd be a lot of work and rerouting etc. to be made and even then it would need a lot of tuning and sorting out.
Is it ready yet? - No. You will know when it's ready.
What's happening at the moment? - From what I've read of the whole thing they're trying to iron out kinks with the linux Haret thing thats going to run Android. After they've got it to boot, they're going to have to try and get android working with the HD2. This is why it's taking so long.
so yeah.

hey??
yeah but..
this is the xda DEVELOPERS forum
and this is the HD2 DEVELOPEMENT section
so i guess the linux android development thread does what its supposed to !!
i know its frustrating and you like me want android on the hd2 but to be honest i i find half the fun is the bloody long wait and the small progressions that are made, thats how we learn.
=====PEACE=====
edit >> ok looks like this thread was useful after all - my wrong !! ..

**shrug**
A mod can move it elsewhere if needs be, I was just getting sick of all the feuding going on between people who wanted to talk about it and the developers yelling at the people who aren't posting about developing and thought it best to make a separate thread so non-developer people can talk about the project and developer people can drop in and give advice

yeah
actually you got a point.
theres a fair ammount of flame grill on the other thread that does get annoying
i subscribe to the other thread so i get an instant email for every post and i get my email on my hd2 just as you would a text message so it can be a pain.
=====PEACE=====

Ha finally found again this topic.
I am wishing you all my best to port Android to the HD2 because with all the **** around WinMo 7 comptability, you look the only one able to save the HD2 in the future!
I really hope everyday that Android will be working on our HD2...
Btw, the HTC Desire is going to be out soon, and it has the same specification than the HD2... Does it increase the chance got Android on our HD2?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=594
Good luck and all my best !
Zepiii

i hope we get android on our HD2's with spb mobileshell 5.0

Zepiii said:
Ha finally found again this topic.
I am wishing you all my best to port Android to the HD2 because with all the **** around WinMo 7 comptability, you look the only one able to save the HD2 in the future!
I really hope everyday that Android will be working on our HD2...
Btw, the HTC Desire is going to be out soon, and it has the same specification than the HD2... Does it increase the chance got Android on our HD2?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=594
Good luck and all my best !
Zepiii
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Click to collapse
All about Gizmondo.com or Gizmondo.fr its bull**** !!
This web site works for Apple its sure !!
Edit : mistake but im sure about Gizmondo

Ok

Too bad we're stuck with low level developers who can't get it done. We need real developers who actually know what they are doing.

simranjits said:
Too bad we're stuck with low level developers who can't get it done. We need real developers who actually know what they are doing.
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Like Android would be wounderfull to have WebOS runing on HD2...a beautifull simbiose with outlook and Itunes integrations.....and push notifications...and light apps for everythink.
I dreaming with that.

simranjits said:
Too bad we're stuck with low level developers who can't get it done. We need real developers who actually know what they are doing.
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Click to collapse
Careful now mate. Watch what you say!

simranjits said:
Too bad we're stuck with low level developers who can't get it done. We need real developers who actually know what they are doing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why don't *YOU* take the lead then if you're so capable of passing judgement on other people; as to do that you must have some amazing development skills in getting an operating system running on unknown poorly documented hardware.
Obvioiusly everyone will bow down to your uberleet level of skill when *YOU* present all of the fine work *YOU* have done!
otherwise...
stop being so bloody rude!
Dcordes knows a fair bit more than most people about linux hacking for ppc devices, I suggest you give him the respect he and others deserve!
if this post upsets you think about what you wrote...

I'm hopeing that it will not sound total idiot, but:
why it's not possible to use NexusOne rom dump, and using it for HD2. Hardware is nearly same except buttons and screen size.
thanks

zabique said:
I'm hopeing that it will not sound total idiot, but:
why it's not possible to use NexusOne rom dump, and using it for HD2. Hardware is nearly same except buttons and screen size.
thanks
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Click to collapse
Ooooh dear...i´m still wondering why people are that damn lazy these days, not reading just one line in threads that are having 709 posts at this moment...don´t you people think that there should be a 100 percent-likelihood (in a developers-forum!) that another big brain spits out such ideas? exactly 1.000 other so called "newbies" have mentioned this point in the past few weeks...sometimes in every third post, again and again, without having read what other people have posted one line above. This is not about beeing a newbie or not, this is just about a little respect to the developers, serving nice presents to all of us without getting paid for it. what you guys can do for them? well, the first step should be not to spam around questions that already have been answered 1000 times before...instead go and read through the replies and at the end, when you are sure that there is no answer yet (after using the search function too, of course)...THAN ask your question or type in your comments and I think everbody will thank you for your participation in this community.
Sorry zabique, of course this is not against you ...but after reading exactly the same line for the 20st time/last two weeks there was no inhibition of my fingers typing these lines possible

i have a lot of respect for those developers, i die a bit inside every time a noob asks how it is going and **** like that.. anyway its nice they are working on it and i hope they succeed! dual boot windows / android would be really cool to have! i will surely donate if its working.. but to who should i donate? maybe its an idea to make a sort of bounty (lets say i will give $20 for getting android on hd2) and someone else also $20. thats 40 in total. if that 40 is shared and given to the developers that have worked on that project it would be a stimulation for them i guess.. only i dont know what developers are working intensively..
anyway my reward will be $20
more of you are going to join?
maybe its an idea to add the totall's of the $$ and the name who gives what in the first post?

fards said:
Why don't *YOU* take the lead then if you're so capable of passing judgement on other people; as to do that you must have some amazing development skills in getting an operating system running on unknown poorly documented hardware.
Obvioiusly everyone will bow down to your uberleet level of skill when *YOU* present all of the fine work *YOU* have done!
otherwise...
stop being so bloody rude!
Dcordes knows a fair bit more than most people about linux hacking for ppc devices, I suggest you give him the respect he and others deserve!
if this post upsets you think about what you wrote...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If i wanted to do it myself , would i be bothering myself with these amateurs. At least i know i can't do it, but these guys don't know when to stop. Like i said we need real developers. All they are doing is guesswork and their debuging techniques are crude.

simranjits said:
If i wanted to do it myself , would i be bothering myself with these amateurs. At least i know i can't do it, but these guys don't know when to stop. Like i said we need real developers. All they are doing is guesswork and their debuging techniques are crude.
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Click to collapse
Of course with the guy who have your thinking psychologically, we have the desire to continue working.
Maybe now you know guys who are better and who are willing to take the trouble to come and work for free for fun, to the delight of members!
If this is not the case, then dont write!
I think you're not an adult, easy to dictate but to do the works is another thing.

simranjits said:
If i wanted to do it myself , would i be bothering myself with these amateurs. At least i know i can't do it, but these guys don't know when to stop. Like i said we need real developers. All they are doing is guesswork and their debuging techniques are crude.
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Click to collapse
all you know is nothing...
so please shut up and let people who do know what they are talking about get on with it..

fards said:
all you know is nothing...
so please shut up and let people who do know what they are talking about get on with it..
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Click to collapse
actually he is quite right. if you have any idea what developers are talking about then you can see that all they do is guess in trial and error style. but aparently you dont have any idea

From the viewpoint of a software architect, it's indeed hard to watch the other thread without crinching every once in a while. On the other hand, the plan of attack there seems to be part of a culture that has done stuff like this quite succesfully with other challenges.
So i won't be surprised if we eventually get a nice port of android running on the HD2.
Mind you, i do believe that an undertaking like this would need the infrastructure, tools and mindset like the main android project has in place at the moment. But that would require a "DEVs and Testers only" door policy.
Simply put, the other thread here lets the lesser gods put their 2 cents in too. I'm cool with that.
BTW, i do not approve of any condescending remarks about the the other thread, nor do i wish to make my own through this mail.

[Discussion] Idea for OpenSource NAND Bootloader

Hello everybody.
I know that Cotulla has developed already his own Bootloader but I think it would be the best if we could use one Bootloader who are OpenSource so everyone could work on it !!
Now I searched for some Informations and found these very interested Article:
little-kernel-based-android-bootloader/
Here a little summary of the Article and basic Informations:
The bootloader does the basic task of hardware initialization, reading the Linux kernel & ramdisk from nand device and loading it up to RAM, setting up initial registers and command line arguments for Linux kernel and jumps to the kernel.
In context of support for Qualcomm chipsets and Android, the bootloader currently supports:
* Variety of nand devices for bootup
* USB driver to enable upgrading images over usb during development
* Keypad driver to enable developers enter ‘fastboot’ mode for image upgrades
* Display driver for debugging and splash screen
* Enable Android recovery image and image upgrades
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now we have to find some Persons who would help to develop little Bootloader !
Here are some thing who we are needing:
How to build Bootloader ??
How to build flashable Version of Bootloader ??
I think the first Point of work are to know how we could build Programm which are we could dump into "NBH-Files" to let us flash it ??
I hope that we could find some Persons who would help me with these Project !!
Greeetz Oliver

do you even know how to program in the first place?

This serves no practical application whatsoever.
Cotulla has already written a perfectly functional bootloader that can boot Android, WM6.5.x, and WP7. What is an open source version going to give us that this one doesn't. Let's all redo everything he just did, only not as good, so we can say it's "open source".
This isn't an OS, nor a kernel, nor anything other than a bootloader, it makes no sense to spend months redoing something in the name of open source when that isn't going to help us at all. Cotulla is probably the only person who could do such a thing anyways. How do I know this? Well, he's the only person who HAS done it. We don't even need the source code for this thing honestly. It's like messing with the source code for HSPL, there's no need. Once it's done, it's done, and no one knows that stuff better than Cotulla anyways.
What exactly are you looking to accomplish here?

Im an HD2 user and very interested in nand for HD2, as many others users, i really want to install android on nand. As i know, the android for HD2 now is ready, we are only waiting for bootloaded, but I feel that it takes forever for waiting this thing.
sorry for my bad english

Better to wait a while for the bootloader and have it built and tested right. If it is released early it has the protential to brick a lot of phones properly as it will be replacing the orgional bootloader. Be patient people, the devs are doing an amazing job!

OK now I read that nobody seems to be interested and we have to used Cotullas Bootloader I personaly break at this point and says thanks for the comments !!
MOD Please Close this Thread !!!

orangekid said:
This serves no practical application whatsoever.
Cotulla has already written a perfectly functional bootloader that can boot Android, WM6.5.x, and WP7. What is an open source version going to give us that this one doesn't. Let's all redo everything he just did, only not as good, so we can say it's "open source".
This isn't an OS, nor a kernel, nor anything other than a bootloader, it makes no sense to spend months redoing something in the name of open source when that isn't going to help us at all. Cotulla is probably the only person who could do such a thing anyways. How do I know this? Well, he's the only person who HAS done it. We don't even need the source code for this thing honestly. It's like messing with the source code for HSPL, there's no need. Once it's done, it's done, and no one knows that stuff better than Cotulla anyways.
What exactly are you looking to accomplish here?
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Click to collapse
With such highly lyrical appraisal, I guess you must have MAGLDR flashed on your phone..?
Cotulla has been criticized by several developpers as talented as he is for keeping his bootloader closed source, even if it's his right. The point? His source code could inspire other devs working on other devices. So making a new bootloader out of scratch may be tough, I think personally that it's a good intitiative.
Without knowing everything at stake, what were you trying to accomplish here anyway?

Beretta93 said:
With such highly lyrical appraisal, I guess you must have MAGLDR flashed on your phone..?
Cotulla has been criticized by several developpers as talented as he is for keeping his bootloader closed source, even if it's his right. The point? His source code could inspire other devs working on other devices. So making a new bootloader out of scratch may be tough, I think personally that it's a good intitiative.
Without knowing everything at stake, what were you trying to accomplish here anyway?
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Click to collapse
Well I'm certainly entitled to my opinion, just as you are.
It seems fruitless to me for someone to take months to develop an open source version of a bootloader already developed.
The developers' time could be better spent on things as yet undeveloped.
I am sure that if developers on other devices want some help, Cotulla would be willing to help them on IRC anyways.
I have not seen actual developers criticize Cotulla for not releasing his source code for magldr, only a few forum members who have not developed anything.
The developers I have seen have all praised him for creating the bootloader, porting WP7, helping with NAND development and other feats.
Maybe I missed something...
Honestly it's not the worst idea even and I do see theoretically someone might want to attempt it, it just seems like a horrendous waste of time and it seems the best developers on this site have day jobs and I don't see them spending their free time redeveloping something in the name of open source.

orangekid said:
Well I'm certainly entitled to my opinion, just as you are.
It seems fruitless to me for someone to take months to develop an open source version of a bootloader already developed.
The developers' time could be better spent on things as yet undeveloped.
I am sure that if developers on other devices want some help, Cotulla would be willing to help them on IRC anyways.
I have not seen actual developers criticize Cotulla for not releasing his source code for magldr, only a few forum members who have not developed anything.
The developers I have seen have all praised him for creating the bootloader, porting WP7, helping with NAND development and other feats.
Maybe I missed something...
Honestly it's not the worst idea even and I do see theoretically someone might want to attempt it, it just seems like a horrendous waste of time and it seems the best developers on this site have day jobs and I don't see them spending their free time redeveloping something in the name of open source.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You surely did miss something, it happened on htc_linux IRC chat, several times.
The problem is that MAGLDR is not out yet , and anything can happen today or tomorrow forcing DFT team to drop the project suddenly, sending all the work on NAND drivers LeTama, Gauner1986 and others did go to garbage.
The fact that one person has full hand to such a project has its pros, for it can be dangerous to deliver a bootloader that might brick phones everywhere around the globe out of the blue, and cons, since no one knows what may happen to threaten the project life.
So I think an alternative is welcome, and the point I agree with you, is that it should have come really earlier, like 2 or 3 months ago...but never too late it is friend.

Beretta93 said:
You surely did miss something, it happened on htc_linux IRC chat, several times.
The problem is that MAGLDR is not out yet , and anything can happen today or tomorrow forcing DFT team to drop the project suddenly, sending all the work on NAND drivers LeTama, Gauner1986 and others did go to garbage.
The fact that one person has full hand to such a project has its pros, for it can be dangerous to deliver a bootloader that might brick phones everywhere around the globe out of the blue, and cons, since no one knows what may happen to threaten the project life.
So I think an alternative is welcome, and the point I agree with you, is that it should have come really earlier, like 2 or 3 months ago...but never too late it is friend.
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Click to collapse
I think Cotulla has got MAGLDR im not to sure but from my point of view,ide much rather wait for him to do it and have it done properly as he knows what hes doing rether than someone else do it and not having it work 100%.Cotulla has put an awfull lot of time and effort into sorting out this NAND and it will come,we just be all patient but when it does come,our device will be truelly awsome,having the abillity to boot 3 or more Os,itle deffienetly give our HD2 a couple of more years life before we get somin else,its been a while in the making and i reckon we could see it be released early next year.Well as the saying goes,all good things come to those who wait

Just wow again. I am always amazed at how impatient people reason...it is so...one sided.
It is the ethical responsibility of anyone making an offering to the public free or otherwise to deliver a product that is not harmful or damaging. If I started giving out free hot dogs on the corner, and warned the public that they MIGHT get e-coli if they eat it, how long do you think I would last before I was shut down for endangering the public...? Even with inanimate objects people have lost in court for damaging property with a faulty product that was given away for free.
If MAGLDR had been released and it was faulty this place would be inundated with complaint after complaint by the same people who are moaning because it is not out yet.
The OP's reasoning is WAY out there! Hmm I want a Playstation 4 , but it has not been released and who knows what is happening with it or when it will be out, so we should get a group and do this ourselves...
All I need is...
1. Someone to design it
2. Someone to build it
Really we get the right people, we could do it!
Gee. Original. Well covered. You are a project manager aren't you?
Excuse me, I need to go clean up some of this sarcasm.
J

Guys, this isn't a topic for your opinions. If you have something constructive to add to the topic of the thread, please do so, if not, I'll remind you that this is a developers forum and no matter how frivoulous an attempt you think it might be, it still has a place at XDA.
Locking this up as per OP's request.

Please come bck m-deejay :(

XDA throwing out m-deejay has absolutley sickened me. He was one of the most busiest devs on this forum and to throw him out, delete his topics, (whatever you want to call it) is discusting, who gives a toss about GPL? I mean how ridiculous is it that XDA supports devs touching WM/WP roms (which is against licensing) , yeah M$ turn a blind eye but thats not the point, yet at same time they go all Nazi because m-deejay preferred to keep his work closed???
If m-deejay wanted to keep his work closed that was his choice, I dont think XDA should give a toss either way, especially when teh alternative is to lose him/other devs altogether.
Dont get me wrong I understand that Android is supposed to be open source but it just seems silly to lose somebody with as much talent as m-deejay and im disgusted ad XDA for doing so, was hoping he would show up elsewhere but havent seen/heard anything
Sorry about the rant but just upset a bit since it seems he has gone for good now, hasn't even signed in since the 5th

TheATHEiST said:
XDA throwing out m-deejay has absolutley sickened me. He was one of the most busiest devs on this forum and to throw him out, delete his topics, (whatever you want to call it) is discusting, who gives a toss about GPL? I mean how ridiculous is it that XDA supports devs touching WM/WP roms (which is against licensing) , yeah M$ turn a blind eye but thats not the point, yet at same time they go all Nazi because m-deejay preferred to keep his work closed???
If m-deejay wanted to keep his work closed that was his choice, I dont think XDA should give a toss either way, especially when teh alternative is to lose him/other devs altogether.
Dont get me wrong I understand that Android is supposed to be open source but it just seems silly to lose somebody with as much talent as m-deejay and im disgusted ad XDA for doing so, was hoping he would show up elsewhere but havent seen/heard anything
Sorry about the rant but just upset a bit since it seems he has gone for good now, hasn't even signed in since the 5th
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And what's your point? Whining?
(btw: Modding your device is not against licenses at all as you are allowed to do everything you want with your hardware)

Here's the thing:
1) I'm sure none of his stuff was actually deleted, they probably moved it to an archive forum or some hidden forum which can be restored in about 30 seconds.
2) There is a BIG difference between WM6.5 roms and Android as far as licensing goes. Android only works the way it does because of the license, MDJ did incredible things as far as ROM and kernel development, and I loved his ROMs, but without distributing the source code is muddles everything up, how did he do what he did? what if I want to incorporate that in my ROM? why were some things broken and some things not? etc...
not only that, but if it's "not a big deal" why the hell didn't he just give his damn code? it's not that hard and so many would benefit. If the mods let MDJ get away with GPL non-compliance, then they have to let everyone get away with it, and that's just not going to work. No one drove him off or messed with him, just up the damn code dude. It does have an effect when you put out a linux distro with no source code, that's how **** gets muddied up and craptified, the same isn't true with winmo because we don't even have the damn source code and it doesn't work the same way at all.

MDJ's Cynogen 2.6 rom was the forst and best NANB build i ever used... hope he comes back...

lolmensch said:
And what's your point? Whining?
(btw: Modding your device is not against licenses at all as you are allowed to do everything you want with your hardware)
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Click to collapse
Its not "whining" its called expressing ones opinion in a forum.
And where did I say or infer that modding our devices was against licensing? I was referring to modding/distributing Microsoft code which IS against licensing. Not that I have anything against that just making a point that XDA turns a blind eye against that (aswell as ms) but dont against GPL.
@ orangekid
I understand and agree to an extent with what your saying but just making a point. XDA was built on infringing licenses (ie microsoft) and then when it comes to free open source stuff they decide to throw a great guy like mdj out because he decided to keep his work to himself.
I agree that it servers a bigger purpose to have it all open, It just gutting that at same time it resulting in a great dev leaving.
Maybe it was mdj's fault, I just know that majority of people would rather have him back and that the HD2 forum was better with him, And please dont take that teh wrong way, we still have some excellent devs here with some excellent roms, I use and enjoy majority of their work daily (im addicted like many others) all im saying is that we have lost a big part of the HD2 forum

why don't u do the secret "atheist prayer" so maybe he can come back?

TheATHEiST said:
XDA throwing out m-deejay has absolutley sickened me. He was one of the most busiest devs on this forum and to throw him out, delete his topics, (whatever you want to call it) is discusting, who gives a toss about GPL? I mean how ridiculous is it that XDA supports devs touching WM/WP roms (which is against licensing) , yeah M$ turn a blind eye but thats not the point, yet at same time they go all Nazi because m-deejay preferred to keep his work closed???
If m-deejay wanted to keep his work closed that was his choice, I dont think XDA should give a toss either way, especially when teh alternative is to lose him/other devs altogether.
Dont get me wrong I understand that Android is supposed to be open source but it just seems silly to lose somebody with as much talent as m-deejay and im disgusted ad XDA for doing so, was hoping he would show up elsewhere but havent seen/heard anything
Sorry about the rant but just upset a bit since it seems he has gone for good now, hasn't even signed in since the 5th
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you ever thought if every devs here keeping their works close to themselves like him? what would happen?
You should look at the big picture, what XDA (well, not that big, you can't see that far, how about HD2 Android roms)would become, if all devs wouldn't want share anything?

Lol @ the crying here
Its his own fault he got banned
Deal w/ it
Sent from my DL Desire v4.31.44.12 using XDA App

Atheist, normally I agree with you on these forums, and I know you don't say a lot of stupid stuff.
That said, you're wrong here in my opinion. A rule was put in place, and MDJ blatantly decided to disregard it. Darkstone himself has stated that he has told MDJ on the IRC logs to post the source code and he still didn't.
While we don't know the full story, from what I've seen, nobody has "thrown out" MDJ, he just doesn't care enough to 1) share his code with us and 2) even make a singe post regarding why he does not/cannot share his code. He knows he's in the wrong, and he won't even try to defend himself.
If he ever decides to come back and share his work though, I will be the first in line to try his ROM. His work was fantastic.

Besides he used to share work work of other Devs...numerous fixes like GPS or USB mount in gingerbread in his build were result of fixes done by other devs like gauner and diem...I don't see how it is fair that he doesn't share his own work yet uses work of other devs...
True he used to work hard on his builds but dude there have been good enough builds in absence too, the HD2 forum is one of the busiest with many devs still working on a 2yr old device

Closing this thread. The language has already got out of hand. Please, stop making threads that create flaming and trolling.
noellenchris

Sick of zip developers (rant)

Typical scenario is;
v 0.1 based on this and that.
v 0.2 changed launcher, added ringtones
v 0.3 new wallpapers, added ram script
v 0.4 added new market, added google+
Excuse me!?! This is not development. This is stealing!
I think these people should just wank instead of copy/pasting. Would be more beneficial for both public and themselves.
Rant over.
Thank you.

calyxim said:
Typical scenario is;
v 0.1 based on this and that.
v 0.2 changed launcher, added ringtones
v 0.3 new wallpapers, added ram script
v 0.4 added new market, added google+
Excuse me!?! This is not development. This is stealing!
I think these people should just wank instead of copy/pasting. Would be more beneficial for both public and themselves.
Rant over.
Thank you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, but if credit is given to original devs you can't really call it "stealing" cause Android is OSP after all...I'm no dev myself but it does seem many ROMs available are CM tweaks achievable with a few market downloads or simply AOSP with extra's...however sometimes certain ROMs begin as "Zip developments" and get later support with real devs and change fundamental features (kernels, code-base etc.) so it's not all bad...

Totally agree..........
But it's not the actual non-development of new roms that is getting on my nerves the most, its the constant *****ing and arguing through lack of understanding different languages etc etc..........
All i have to say is read the threads carefully as i've noticed some people who don't speak english very well get the hump on as they don't understand clearly what people are saying.
I know i've had my rants in some of these threads before and i don't blame anyone else for doing it too. I've managed to restrain myself the last few weeks as our arguments are falling on deaf ears so whats the point, i'll just ignore the idiots making fools out of themselves by bringing us stuff we've already had for a long time and stick to what i know best.

What you've said is true Scratch...even if the ROM cookers do bring something new often nobody knows what that new stuff is because of the poor English. I'm not trying to insult them but I would recommend, especially with a specialized thing such as compiling/ making a ROM, the English needs to be clear and concise so everyone knows what is being released, what changes have been made and what's been modified. More often than not, as you say Scratch, people get upset because of a misunderstanding. Maybe those struggling with the language can consult friends/devs and ask exactly how to express something they've done in their ROM so everybody is clear on what's happening.

Scratch0805 said:
...I've managed to restrain myself the last few weeks...
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Click to collapse
True, I have got quite a lot to say over this entire fiasco over the Android 4.0 "ports" and "source builds" that is currently playing out in the dev zone like a long dragging soap opera, but, its just not worth it, so, just let them argue over themselves who is first and who is the true dev and what not. Besides, it's not a good feeling when these Zip Devs accuse you of various stuffs when you speak out against them. It's extremely childish and irritating to read those posts, but I guess it can't be helped. Zip developers are not a localized phenomenon, they are everywhere, and since Android and ROMs like Cyanogenmod are Open Source, we have nothing to say, and have to live with it.
There's another new phenomenon which is playing out and can be seen on pretty much every ROM. Someone gets a ROM to boot / work at a basic level, create a thread and build up major hype and hoopla on it, and EVERYONE of these "devs" proclaim "I need help to do this and do that./..... bla bla bla". Zip dev is not such a big issue per se, but, the level of intellect is terribly low among the "devs". I believe most of them are what? 12-13 year olds, and, they act their age perfectly, unlike someone like Jacob.
/End Rant

Case in point, after Arco has announced his intentions and the fact he already has a working port in progress:
I was first, it was my idea, I continue and basta.
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Enough said.

Ahah, doing small things for the buzz (pun intended), acquiring a fame in trolland

Lol, I've made myself clear on this too.
" the ability to read is good,
the ability to understand what you've read is great "

http://www.androidpolice.com/2011/1...om-developers-i-think-we-need-to-have-a-talk/

3xeno said:
dragging soap opera.
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Don't you mean aosp opera? Hehe...okay, I'll stop with the bad jokes.
And I fully agree with the topic. Anyone can open up any rom .zip paste in some apps, reflash and repackage it as your own.

Agree with this. Sadly I'm one of the offenders, that will have a moan at people developing zip-roms. I accept that this isnt the greatest way to deal with people on forums like theese. But it seems the only good way to get my point across to people that aren't that great at english.
Although, I must add one thing. I've seen roms get tossed around the development forums like mad. It seems to go like this in the dev. forums.
People create a booting rom. Or compile a new one.
People add a few fixes, someone creates a spin off.
Original dev discontinues rom, other 'developers' ask to continue it, even when they have projects in hand.
Someone picks up the pieces months later. After even the re-contiuned rom is given up with.
People spin roms off from there.

All i can say is dear god. I have been reading all that threads last few days and i was frapped how people are shalow in glorifying them selves and their so called development skills. I didnt want to coment anything cauze i have run into such argument once before with someone who was constantly refusing to understand what i am saying and i dont want to do it again, so i leave my thoughts here.
So people should get on the ground for change and start doing something usefull instead of make dozen threads, first when you dig something, than another one when you are asking if it can be done and finaly one when you "do" something. What they have done is nothing. They are just thanks chasers. In last few days there were more new roms than it was for whole Wildfire lifetime.
I remember tje days when there was just three or four roms and they worked, you hear me, they worked. So stop posting such s**t unles u did something that is realy worth it.
Sent from my HTC Wildfire using xda premium

Yes you are right, zip development is horrible. Lately there has been a major rise in "new" roms that have been hitting the development thread. I swear I have seen at least 5 to 10 roms all based on CM7 or oxygen. And what's different? It's "fast and stable" "Is themed to look like ICS" "Has a script that I actually don't know what it does but it must do something good". And its "my" rom because I grabbed a rom.zip from a device that runs oxygen smoothly and added the boot.img and the build prop right from the CM7 rom.zip and then cooked it and I posted it under MY account so its MY rom. There is a problem though, my genius copy/paste skills on my computer that took forever to build up are limited to actually being able to fix problems with things like Bluetooth and GPS, etc. So what do I do then? Hell I request "help" to fix the problems and once a genius like acro or another real dev comes in and fixes it for me, I take the fix and say it was all MY work. AOSP stands for ANDROID OPEN SOURCE PROJECT. The source is open to anyone that can use linux terminal (that's half the problem). The other problem is that no one could be bothered taking the time to actually learn a skill. They want to do something now, and now only. They won't spend hours and days learning how to program in java or C because it takes "too long" and just wants to begin this so called "deving" now. This is a rant about zip development, but wait you say, I do .zip development though? Yes I do, but what I am talking about is .zip development that is based on a .zip that is actually OPEN SOURCE. If something is OPEN SOURCE there is no point in taking a compiled .zip and "porting it" to our device. You do this because its easy for you to hit download and copy and paste, but you don't "have the time" to setup a download of the source and compile it to a rom. Zip development that is for CLOSED SOURCE on the other hand is way different. HTC, MIUI, etc. are all roms that have no open source code so all the work has to be done based on a .zip. Since the code is not available this is the only option. This in my opinion is the only kind of good .zip development since there is no source to build from. I would love to download the source and mess around with the ICS source and try to compile something but my computer is got really bad specs and my internet is so slow. I will just leave that kind of work to acro and the real devs

I agree with this. Looking through the more recent Wildfire ROMS, I can see a pattern for most. So, I have started to come up with a fight back, for individuality and mostly, for a better mobile experience. It would mean a lot if you could help me out with THIS.
Sorry to ask in this thread, but I thought it might be a good idea

Before I get accused of zipfile developing, I only compiled an edited kernel for the ROM to allow touchscreen to work a little.
I am not a "zipfile" developer and I am not going to be, my interest is in kernels.
I happened to come to xda at the wrong time, first thing kaassaus did was ask me to follow a tutorial to get touchscreen working (which took all of 20 seconds).
I think posting an ICS zip is okay FOR NOW because there is no OPEN source for the wildfire for it, and Arco is NOT breaking the GPL because he hasn't redistributed it yet.
Sent from my HTC Wildfire

We are not accusing anyone. My point is dev section is not a learning section. Those who want to learn development can pop into chefs section instead of releasing a rom with 2 zillion bugs.
There is a reason for this forum is not called xda-tweakers. Because our devs are devs. They are not steve jobs like tweakers.
2nd rant over. Class dismissed

Okay, Zip development is not so bad, actualy is needed in some points. For flashing kernels or some other things. But look at some of that AOSP-fast and stable roms. What do they bring us? Nothing. It is just repacked CM nightly or stable. To "develop" such rom you need WinZip and in best case Android SDK if they decide to decompile and recompile few apps instead of treating them with winzip too to change few icons and voila, NEW ROM. Better yet someome will take any theme and implement it into framework.And he will be so proud because his rom has diferent look. What else we can still expect is ES file explorer instead of OI, Miui galery, themed keyborad, different font and unforgetable scripts which do god knows what. They are the main part. Is that a rom? No it isn't my dear friends. Its a disrespect to any real developer here. All that we already have. We have themes, we have scripts we have everything that flashable and we dont need another yet ****y rom to tell us what is fast and stable.
Sent from my HTC Wildfire using xda premium

I don't find anything wrong in updating an already present ROM's with new applications update ,... even though i must say there is a trend in past few weeks that lot of ROM's in buzz section were merely identical and there was no development in them

I was browsing the old threads of the Dev Zone, and came on this:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=884659
Amazing, right? It's deja vu all over again.. (PS - Don't bump that please. lol)

I am a noob, and I know I will never be as experienced as other developers.
That is why I do not develop ROMs, and develop things I am good at.

dual boot Win 6.5 & Android 4

There are several old threads about dual-booting, and using this particular phone. I want Windows 6.5 or less and/or a desktop version of windows (because of certain apps)... and Android 4.0+ Is it possible? Would this phone be too slow... Is there a better phone that could do it? Is there no phone that could do it?

robertkjr3d said:
There are several old threads about dual-booting, and using this particular phone. I want Windows 6.5 or less and/or a desktop version of windows (because of certain apps)... and Android 4.0+ Is it possible? Would this phone be too slow... Is there a better phone that could do it? Is there no phone that could do it?
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I'm not sure about desktop Windows but as for Android just place the ROM folder on the root of your SD card then run CLRCAD and HARET and it should work just fine. No other phone can do it as well as the HD2 (if they can do it at all).

Nigeldg said:
I'm not sure about desktop Windows but as for Android just place the ROM folder on the root of your SD card then run CLRCAD and HARET and it should work just fine. No other phone can do it as well as the HD2 (if they can do it at all).
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Thankx for replying... I've posted on a few forums and haven't received anything till now. Anyway: So what you are saying is buy this HD2 phone preloaded with the Win 6.5 OS... Then put Android 4.0+ on the SDCard and boot into that. I would really want to run Android most of the time. I would connect the Android OS to my AT&T and make calls with it... and only use Win 6.5 rarely.
Questions:
1) Are there examples of people actually doing this? recently?... or just back in the days of 2.2 which as I mentioned in the 1st thread, i found many google links/forum threads on.
2) Can I still get to the Android market and all normal apps, and not have other DRM issues?
3) Since the OS is actually on the SDCard, and I hit the reset, would it automatically go to Windows, when I reset?

robertkjr3d said:
Thankx for replying... I've posted on a few forums and haven't received anything till now. Anyway: So what you are saying is buy this HD2 phone preloaded with the Win 6.5 OS... Then put Android 4.0+ on the SDCard and boot into that. I would really want to run Android most of the time. I would connect the Android OS to my AT&T and make calls with it... and only use Win 6.5 rarely.
Questions:
1) Are there examples of people actually doing this? recently?... or just back in the days of 2.2 which as I mentioned in the 1st thread, i found many google links/forum threads on.
2) Can I still get to the Android market and all normal apps, and not have other DRM issues?
3) Since the OS is actually on the SDCard, and I hit the reset, would it automatically go to Windows, when I reset?
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Come on, you don't even have to search to get your answer, just browse to the SD Android development forum. You're just being lazy now.

Nigeldg said:
I'm not sure about desktop Windows but as for Android just place the ROM folder on the root of your SD card then run CLRCAD and HARET and it should work just fine. No other phone can do it as well as the HD2 (if they can do it at all).
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Nigeldg said:
Come on, you don't even have to search to get your answer, just browse to the SD Android development forum. You're just being lazy now.
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Click to collapse
From Star Trek: Sarek said: "It is difficult to answer, when one does not understand the question." Or in my case, it was difficult to go looking for the answer, when not understanding how supposedly easy it was to find. Us IT people are in the business of making others feel stupid often, but we don't have to flaunt it.
Yes this is a good link, that now you have so eloquently pointed out: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1986437

robertkjr3d said:
From Star Trek: Sarek said: "It is difficult to answer, when one does not understand the question." Or in my case, it was difficult to go looking for the answer, when not understanding how supposedly easy it was to find. Us IT people are in the business of making others feel stupid often, but we don't have to flaunt it.
Yes this is a good link, that now you have so eloquently pointed out: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1986437
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There's a difference between not knowing/understanding and simply not trying. This was quite obviously the latter. I'm not trying to make you feel stupid at all, in fact you're probably the opposite since you're going to buy an HD2 . I'm just saying that you weren't exactly trying to find the answer and just wanted to be spoon fed, and as someone who's new to this you're probably going to have a lot of questions along the way and it's better to learn how to find the answers yourself than to just get given them because it's faster and better for everyone.

Nigeldg said:
There's a difference between not knowing/understanding and simply not trying. This was quite obviously the latter. I'm not trying to make you feel stupid at all, in fact you're probably the opposite since you're going to buy an HD2 . I'm just saying that you weren't exactly trying to find the answer and just wanted to be spoon fed, and as someone who's new to this you're probably going to have a lot of questions along the way and it's better to learn how to find the answers yourself than to just get given them because it's faster and better for everyone.
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Click to collapse
If you wish to keep noobs as noobs, and turn them away, then continue to use sarcasm. But if you wish to turn noobs into contributors, and receive more thanks, than you treat them with respect. --- I've been looking for weeks for the right place. I wish to upgrade my phone soon, but not in that big of a hurry.
You wish me to defend myself? OK. Your XDA site is huge with a vast array of forum links. I was not aware I would need to look under HTC development'. I didn't know it had anything to do with Development.... Sorry (why am I apologizing to you?). To me software development is when someone programs an application that runs on a Win-mobile and/or Android device better known as an 'app'. Or what I do... I am a software developer for the asp.net environment. When searching for dual-booting as I said in the 1st thread I get tons of threads from years ago about Android 2.2. The same happens when searching from google. Is it really that easy to find as you say? Unless like you, you know exactly where to look. 'It is easy to find the answers, when you know right where to look', 'you understood the question'... but I did not know where even to look!

robertkjr3d said:
If you wish to keep noobs as noobs, and turn them away, then continue to use sarcasm. But if you wish to turn noobs into contributors, and receive more thanks, than you treat them with respect. --- I've been looking for weeks for the right place. I wish to upgrade my phone soon, but not in that big of a hurry.
You wish me to defend myself? OK. Your XDA site is huge with a vast array of forum links. I was not aware I would need to look under HTC development'. I didn't know it had anything to do with Development.... Sorry (why am I apologizing to you?). To me software development is when someone programs an application that runs on a Win-mobile and/or Android device better known as an 'app'. Or what I do... I am a software developer for the asp.net environment. When searching for dual-booting as I said in the 1st thread I get tons of threads from years ago about Android 2.2. The same happens when searching from google. Is it really that easy to find as you say? Unless like you, you know exactly where to look. 'It is easy to find the answers, when you know right where to look', 'you understood the question'... but I did not know where even to look!
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Click to collapse
There was no sarcasm in my post at all, but now I'm going to be quite blunt. You're acting like an idiot. I understand why you may think software development is to do with apps but when there are two separate forums for NAND and SD then it should be obvious that it's not. I was 14 and I managed to figure out how to install SD Android without any help whatsoever, I refuse to believe that a software programmer couldn't figure it out. You wished to dual boot WinMo and Android on your SD card on an HTC HD2:
1. Find XDA
2. Find the HD2 forum
3. Oh look, it has a section called 'Android'. The answer's probably in there somewhere
4. I want to boot Android on my SD card. Conveniently, there's a forum dedicated to SD Android. I wonder if there are modern ROMs there
5. Whoa, threads with ICS and JB ROMs as well as guides on how to install them. I guess I've found my solution.
Yes, it's just as easy to find as I say if not easier. Steps 1, 2, 3 and 4 could have been solved with Google.
I couldn't care less about thanks, they're not a very good reflection of... well, anything really. I've seen people with 0 thanks post amazingly useful guides (in fact I think the guide I first followed to flash NAND Android was someone's first post) and people with thousands of thanks ask 'best ROM' questions. Whilst it would be great to turn more people into contributors it'll be impossible for you to become one if you don't put any effort in yourself.

Because this thread went off the rails I am going to close it, but here's the quick rundown:
if you want to dual-boot WM6.5 and Android, you can do so using the haret method mentioned. Yes it is fully featured (market etc.) and yes when you restart you boot back into WM6.5, but you can boot into Android really fast after that if you want.
You can also dual-boot WP7 with Android, put Android on NAND or other options.
Searching really is the key, I know the HD2 forums can be a bit daunting and some things are going to be a bit hard to find but generally speaking if it has anything to do with Android (like dual booting from WM6.5) you will find it stickied in the Android forum.
Check stuff out here
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=743