Database Users

RFC! Call to fix evo terminology.

I am not sure why, but suddenly everyone is calling everything 'rooting' when talking about the evo... this makes things very confusing in guides, etc.
Installing an engineering SPL is not the same as rooting! (but does require root level access in the OS)
The boot loading of android devices (esp HTC devices) generally goes:
SPL (secondary program loader) (can be stock or engineering build)
White skateboarding androids.
Recovery (RA Mon, stock, clockworkmod, etc)
Green/Orange on Black menu which allows flashing images and wiping data.
Android (can be rooted) (cyanogenmod, stock, etc)
The running android operating system
Not trying to make troll bait... just got sick of very confusing guides telling me to 'root' the SPL

Who (exactly) is everyone?
I've been reading $h!t everyday for 2-3 weeks now and haven't seen this issue (or at least been confused by anything relating to it)... At least not from any thread/guide that really matters.
I understand you think this applies to Dev's (and hence posted in the Dev section)... but I'm not seeing it.

ok, maybe *everyone* wasn't a fair justification. still though.. not a single one of the posts I see in the dev section use the SPL identifier.
Keep in mind I definitely appreciate the hard work of guide writers.. I just think that the terminology should stay consistent to what has been outlined by android/google/the G1/etc
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=690762
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=701835
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=706411
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=741294
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=715915 (at least HBOOT/engineering is mentioned in this one)
etc.

Me neither. Plus posting this wouldn't change anything anyway. Are you the kind of person that likes to correct people's spelling mistakes too? Love those types!
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

kallisti5 said:
ok, maybe *everyone* wasn't a fair justification. still though.. not a single one of the posts I see in the dev section use the SPL identifier.
Keep in mind I definitely appreciate the hard work of guide writers.. I just think that the terminology should stay consistent to what has been outlined by android/google/the G1/etc
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=690762
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=701835
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=706411
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=741294
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=715915 (at least HBOOT/engineering is mentioned in this one)
etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think most of those guides mention gaining root AND unlocking NAND/loading a custom recovery?
And toasts guide (the 2nd link) specifically mentions via an engineering SPL build.
I'm not a dev... but it has been referred to as root, nand unlock and custom recovery for quite some time (since I've been rooting my Hero/Evo).

gmanvbva said:
Who (exactly) is everyone?
I've been reading $h!t everyday for 2-3 weeks now and haven't seen this issue (or at least been confused by anything relating to it)... At least not from any thread/guide that really matters.
I understand you think this applies to Dev's (and hence posted in the Dev section)... but I'm not seeing it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't notice either.

kallisti5 said:
The boot loading of android devices (esp HTC devices) generally goes:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"Android" should be capitialized.. I hate it when people don't capitalize it right.

I thought we were going to use 'jailbreaking' as the new term!

sigh...

kallisti5 said:
sigh...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's what I did when I read this waste of forum space.

12MaNy said:
That's what I did when I read this waste of forum space.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
QFT.
Don't get your knickers in a twist over terminology. Learn the new terminology if you're coming to a new phone/OS and be content.

so my recovery isn't rooted? how do i do that? I want my recovery to have full access to my roots!

12MaNy said:
That's what I did when I read this waste of forum space.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really? Wow. Sorry to hear your so limited on bandwidth. You disable images in IE6? I hear that helps lower the bandwidth usage.

smw6180 said:
Don't get your knickers in a twist over terminology. Learn the new terminology if you're coming to a new phone/OS and be content.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, Fair enough. As nothing has really changed with the different stages of Android boot with the Evo I didn't think the terms for did either.
Didn't think my 1 cent worth thoughts would cause that big of an uproar.

New to Androids

Hello all
New to the site, and would like to thank evetyone who has made a post/thread, and to everyone who has positve and relevant posts in the coments. I have been reading this site since i learned about it. I have made it thru all the forums and have realized alot of this lingo is over my head. Im wanting to give my phone some upgrades to personalize it better for me. I am looking for someones help to root,clock,and undervolt my phone. Until I leearn what is actually what I am afraid of doing these things on my own, but have noticed significant lag, and issues in my phone that canot be fiked without doing these things and more. Soory for the long post but anybody that can help me please contact me via message or email.
Thank you

I'm not new to Android phones (originally on the G1 prebuy in 2008) but I still
dont have knowledge/confidence/guts to root or install custom roms.

Well if you look at the development forum theres a post that explains all this in a high detail rooting the g2 is not very hard its actually one of the simplest phones i've rooted usually its alot harder like the g1, mytouch 3g, vibrant, and etc those are hard to root but this is simple but always theres a risk of a brick and you do void your warranty so check out the first page on the development forum and you might get a better indepth idea..

Jaded1 said:
Hello all
but have noticed significant lag, and issues in my phone that canot be fiked without doing these things and more.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lag? Good thing you're new to Android...you haven't seen lag till you tried the G1.
Like the above post, rooting now is much easier than before. I've rooted my G1 and a friends G1. The G2 was simple compared to those. Plus now you can also get full S-Off with 'gfree'. That will also get you sim-unlock.
But most of all - if you don't get someone to do it for you - read, read and then re-read! It won't take long, but still, don't be rushed. Double check what you enter before you hit enter.
And yes, it is worth it!

^^^ i know what s-off is.. but what is gfree?

I dont even know what gfree is i never heard of that care to explain?

Gfree is basically the new visionary except it not only perm roots your phone, but it also unlocks it. You have both radio s off and label s off.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App

I wouldnt mess with voltages until you get comfortable with rooting/flashing/ocing.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App

I have many android phone from g1 to nexus one to my new g2. What you need to do is google xda developers. That forum will have all the info and tutorials you need. Including youtube vids. The truth is if you screw up your phone return to the carrier saying you don't know what's wrong with it. They will pretty much replace it.
Sent from my HTC Vision using Tapatalk

Still lost
Im not going to rush this cuz that would be one expensive as paperweight siting around. Im not sure if its because of the lingo or me not "breaking/rooting" anything b4 but if someone can actually show me, i am open to bringing a case of beer or money. Please contact me for discussion. Just really dont wanna damage this phone. It cold be like a mini Android course.

nivlac978 said:
Gfree is basically the new visionary except it not only perm roots your phone, but it also unlocks it. You have both radio s off and label s off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
gfree isn't the new Visionary. Visionary is for rooting your phone, and an alternative to that is called rage.
What gfree does is a combination of radio S-OFF (proper, full security off), SuperCID (lets you flash any other carrier's ROM) and also SIM unlock.
So to fully unlock your phone, you want to root it (with Visionary or rage) and then use gfree as well. Though of course you don't *have* to do either of those, for instance you could just root it if that's all you wanted.

Is it worth to wait for Unrevoked 2.2 root?

We are all waiting for the "miracle" come from the Unrevoked....Is it worth?.
If we are sure that the Unrevoked is really working on it, than It's worth to wait, but until now, nothing make sure that they are working on it, Unrevoked always avoids to discuss about wildfire.
They are geniuses, so if they really want to root it, I think they only need couple of weeks.But so far,froyo2.2 has been on wildfire for a long time.
If anyone has reliable information that they're still working on it, please share.
The wildfire don't bring them profit, so why should they have to waste their precious time on it??...just saying that everyone should not hope too much...It might disappoint you...
Finally, thank you for your attention. sorry for my poor English

i think they're working on it

What is your alternative?

mtnhan1996 said:
We are all waiting for the "miracle" come from the Unrevoked....Is it worth?.
If we are sure that the Unrevoked is really working on it, than It's worth to wait, but until now, nothing make sure that they are working on it, Unrevoked always avoids to discuss about wildfire.
They are geniuses, so if they really want to root it, I think they only need couple of weeks.But so far,froyo2.2 has been on wildfire for a long time.
If anyone has reliable information that they're still working on it, please share.
The wildfire don't bring them profit, so why should they have to waste their precious time on it??...just saying that everyone should not hope too much...It might disappoint you...
Finally, thank you for your attention. sorry for my poor English
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Frankly, I don't think it's worth it. I'd just sell my wildfire and buy a new phone.

3xeno said:
What is your alternative?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He could use an xtc clip and get it S-off

T_T
U know that XTC Clip don't available in many countries, and its price is almost equal to a wildfire

mtnhan1996 said:
We are all waiting for the "miracle" come from the Unrevoked....Is it worth?.
If we are sure that the Unrevoked is really working on it, than It's worth to wait, but until now, nothing make sure that they are working on it, Unrevoked always avoids to discuss about wildfire.
They are geniuses, so if they really want to root it, I think they only need couple of weeks.But so far,froyo2.2 has been on wildfire for a long time.
If anyone has reliable information that they're still working on it, please share.
The wildfire don't bring them profit, so why should they have to waste their precious time on it??...just saying that everyone should not hope too much...It might disappoint you...
Finally, thank you for your attention. sorry for my poor English
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Their updates clearly tell us that they are willing to work on wildfire. But the problem actually seems like they dont have a wildfire and i heard that they are searching for it. They are the ones who got such a great reputation for rooting phones. I dont think that "they feel like wasting time working on wildfire".
No free alternative. Just we need to wait, wait and wait.
(correct me if im wrong)

It's bad luck that you have froyo on your wildfire, your options (as mentioned before) are:
1. Wait for a software able to root 2.2
2. Pay for someone to root via X-clip
3. Sell your wildfire and buy a handset with 2.1 or below. Can you even get a phone running 2.1 anymore?

A$h x said:
It's bad luck that you have froyo on your wildfire, your options (as mentioned before) are:
1. Wait for a software able to root 2.2
2. Pay for someone to root via X-clip
3. Sell your wildfire and buy a handset with 2.1 or below. Can you even get a phone running 2.1 anymore?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no need to buy a newer device with 2.1 or below. Even if someone wants to, they can get among the sony ericson devices. One can go for a latest gingerbread root friendly device.
excluding wildfire and aria, many other froyo android devices and even gingerbread devices are rootable.
--another point to consider here, as all of us know is, root (perma) depends on hboot security and not on the version of operating system (to be specific, in nand locked devices)

bharatgaddameedi said:
no need to buy a newer device with 2.1 or below. Even if someone wants to, they can get among the sony ericson devices. One can go for a latest gingerbread root friendly device.
excluding wildfire and aria, many other froyo android devices and even gingerbread devices are rootable.
--another point to consider here, as all of us know is, root depends on hboot security and not on the version of operating system.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh, so hboot is not dependant on the android version? So you can have a 0.81 hboot on gingerbread 2.3.3 for example? Strange that they would use an outdated hboot with the latest android builds but there you go.

They are working on it. I don't think that anybody should buy a new phone, because of the root thing.

bharatgaddameedi said:
Their updates clearly tell us that they are willing to work on wildfire. But the problem actually seems like they dont have a wildfire and i heard that they are searching for it. They are the ones who got such a great reputation for rooting phones. I dont think that "they feel like wasting time working on wildfire".
No free alternative. Just we need to wait, wait and wait.
(correct me if im wrong)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sorry because i what I said then. I don't know what I was thinking then. I didn't mean that . I just didn't know if they are really working on wildfire, or just other devices.( sorry if I'm wrong)

A$h x said:
Oh, so hboot is not dependant on the android version? So you can have a 0.81 hboot on gingerbread 2.3.3 for example? Strange that they would use an outdated hboot with the latest android builds but there you go.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol, im not talking about the hboot version. I said root depends on hboot security and not hboot version. And that security depends on the manufacturer. For a single device, higher the hboot version the more secure it is. But for different devices they are not at all related.
Let us see few things.
--htc aria --------hboot 1.02 not yet rooted.
--htc wildfire ----hboot 1.01 not yet rooted.
--htc legend------hboot 1.01 rooted.
--htc desire & incredible --hboot 0.93 rooted.
--htc evo 4g -----hboot 2.10 rooted.
--htc hero --- has no nand security. so custom recoveries and custom roms can be easily flashed.
Wildfire and Aria have more security on the hboot.
Actually im sorry. I should have specified this. The process of rooting varies widely between different android devices. [It (permaroot) depends on hboot security and not on the version of operating system in NAND locked devices. And shell root or temp root will not depend on hboot]
If two different devices are running the same android version, then both the hboot versions are not likely to be the same. Check for example, Google Nexus One (root friendly device) is running official gingerbread with hboot 0.35 .
It is not like official froyo on wildfire works only with hboot 1.01. I think if htc really wants to, we might have even had gingerbread on wildfire with hboot 0.80. And we are now running gingerbread custom roms on wildfire hboot 0.80
And that should not be called "outdated hboots" for the latest builds. They are called less secure or more secure hboots.
[someone correct me if im wrong]

To accord me unrevoked doesnt working on hboot of buzz froyo, so i used xtc clip to root it .
I bought the clip with a gda in italy.
Excusw for my english but i am italian.

And don't forget the other possiblity for S-off, the pay as you go XTC clip.
That device should come on the market for a more reasonable price for 1 time unlockers.
They are testing it in beta, so just have a bit patience and if all is succesfull, order one and your problems are gone.

I am not able to understand why?
Are mobile companies dont want to users their root android phones?
If yes why ?

Lara_Shadow said:
I am not able to understand why?
Are mobile companies dont want to users their root android phones?
If yes why ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Obviously they dont want to users do it. This is standard of all companies, even outside the Android universe. The two major reasons are to save their own headaches when users have various problems and issues owning to rooting / JB'ing their devices, and secondly, they want you to stick with the company provided featureset and not have new ones, so that, you will have to buy a new device if you want new features.
It's heartening to see a slight change in their (Some co's) approach though.

3xeno said:
so that, you will have to buy a new device if you want new features.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pure business.
3xeno said:
It's heartening to see a slight change in their (Some co's) approach though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really appreciative.

MobileTechVideos S-OFF

Anyone seen this? https://www.facebook.com/pages/MobileTechVideos/182579981788132?fref=ts
You guys know if they are credible or not?

I have a HTC DNA, and there are several good reports of MobileTechVideos doing s-off on the DNA in the DNA forums.
(The latest updates from HTC/Verizon removed the rooting/s-off exploits, so this currently is the only way to get s-off on a DNA that has been updated).
Here's one report:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=40714371&postcount=26

I saw some posts in a few other threads about them so I checked out their web site. It seems like they've been around for a while and more or less specialize in unbricking phones. Yesterday their Facebook page said they'd achieved S-OFF and applied SuperCID and then an hour or so later they said they'd managed it "without the wire". That was almost 24 hours ago, now. I'm waiting for more news.

yea they're credible. they fixed my bricked s2 been following them for 2 years

They are legit. Sent a couple of my phones to them over the years for hardware related repairs and they always fixed the issue. They were prompt, friendly, and well organized. Would not hesitate to use them again in the future.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app

So now the question is, how?

ross_ctr said:
So now the question is, how?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My bet is they won't tell us how. They are a business so if anything you'll probably have to pay them and send your device in for them to do it for you. However, since it's been done I'm sure someone will be able to figure it out soon

ross_ctr said:
So now the question is, how?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I got the impression is was via some sort of JTAG modification, but there really is no solid information at this point.

I haven't seen them say it was via JTAG, however they did say it wasn't via "the wire trick".... whatever that is. This is my first HTC so not clued up completely yet

ross_ctr said:
I haven't seen them say it was via JTAG, however they did say it wasn't via "the wire trick".... whatever that is. This is my first HTC so not clued up completely yet
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On many of the recent HTC phones, one has to take an insulated wire and short two contacts together at a specific interval in order to S-OFF. Those phones had removable battery covers, so getting at the electronic contacts was fairly simple. Hence the name "wire trick"

They've charged for S-Off in the past. There's nothing solid to think that they won't keep the details to themselves and make you pay for it this time as well.

im guessing its not going to be released

I'd be fine with paying for it.

Simba501 said:
I'd be fine with paying for it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I suppose if one had to return the phone to HTC you could relock and flash an RRU, to get rid of the TAMPERED and RELOCKED indicators. That is the advantage of S-Off, so far as I'm concerned.
What is the great advantage in your opinion? Oh yeah, it can flash a bootup animation with S-off.

stevedebi said:
I suppose if one had to return the phone to HTC you could relock and flash an RRU, to get rid of the TAMPERED and RELOCKED indicators. That is the advantage of S-Off, so far as I'm concerned.
What is the great advantage in your opinion? Oh yeah, it can flash a bootup animation with S-off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Makes modding easier. I'm not quite familiar with the One yet (get it Friday), but on the One X (on some bootloaders), you couldn't flash kernels in recovery. Two things allowed you to do this: S-off and downgrading hboot. Downgrading was a pain. You also need S-off for changing the splash screen to a custom one.

Burnt two S-OFF exploits in one go

After the amount of effort put into the Tegra HTC One X to achieve S-OFF, it's great to see S-OFF for HTC One, however am I the only one who thinks that releasing two separate S-OFF methods which, I presume, use different exploits is an overkill?
The way I see it is HTC will update the firmware/bootloader soon enough, patching both exploits as they're both public. This means extra work needed to achieve S-OFF on newer firmwares.
It's a shame that the both teams didn't collaborate and keep one exploit as a backup for when first one gets patched to keep the S-OFF goodness lasting longer.

how do we even know it is two exploits discovered?
No one has specifically explained how either method works.

Pointlol said:
lmao, this is quality trolling
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol. On a serious note what is wrong with two exploits? Just be happy that we have them and keep it moving ( to OP)
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2

One is firmware dependant (Moonshine) whilst Revone is to work regardless of firnware version.

barondebxl said:
Lol. On a serious note what is wrong with two exploits? Just be happy that we have them and keep it moving ( to OP)
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Simple, newer phones will be shipped with newer firmware with patched exploits. With both of them public, it means HTC can patch both and we're back into the cat and mouse game of exploit searching. There is no point in releasing two, potentially different, exploits which achieve the same thing.

lollylost100 said:
Simple, newer phones will be shipped with newer firmware with patched exploits. With both of them public, it means HTC can patch both and we're back into the cat and mouse game of exploit searching. There is no point in releasing two, potentially different, exploits which achieve the same thing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok so now that both have been released what do you want to do about it?

I'm sure HTC wanted us to find a s-off method and that they don't care
Remember htc is not apple

drakeymcmb said:
I'm sure HTC wanted us to find a s-off method and that they don't care
Remember htc is not apple
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think they wouldn't even care specially now that they provide developer and Google editions. That gives flexibility on the consumer side.
Sent from my HTC One using xda app-developers app

Why not have two methods, doesn't hurt anything.

drakeymcmb said:
I'm sure HTC wanted us to find a s-off method and that they don't care
Remember htc is not apple
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True. They're becoming more developer friendly. That doesn't mean they WANT you to do it, but I highly doubt they will patch it. And it doesn't even matter if you're on a custom rom.

drakeymcmb said:
I'm sure HTC wanted us to find a s-off method and that they don't care
Remember htc is not apple
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 on htc is not apple
only way HTC care's is if the carriers ***** about it.

clsA said:
+1 on htc is not apple
only way HTC care's is if the carriers ***** about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Definitely this. HTC can't afford to lose carriers at this point.
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2

lollylost100 said:
After the amount of effort put into the Tegra HTC One X to achieve S-OFF, it's great to see S-OFF for HTC One, however am I the only one who thinks that releasing two separate S-OFF methods which, I presume, use different exploits is an overkill?
The way I see it is HTC will update the firmware/bootloader soon enough, patching both exploits as they're both public. This means extra work needed to achieve S-OFF on newer firmwares.
It's a shame that the both teams didn't collaborate and keep one exploit as a backup for when first one gets patched to keep the S-OFF goodness lasting longer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to disagree with you about the two ways. Until we have 1 way that works for both Windows and Linux then we need to ways. Right now one of the ways works on the phone itself or using CMD on a PC or Linux. The other way only works on Linux, I do not know how to use Linux nor do I really want to learn how. So I am forced to use Windows for everything. So like I said once we have a One way that works for everyone we need different ways to do it.

S-OFF in a Linux Live CD has been done before. Minimum learning curve required.
PS. HTC has plenty of reasons to patch S-OFF exploits:
1. It allows the device to return to Locked state, instead of Re-Locked
2. Has the ability to cause bricks
3. Allows for free SIM unlocks
4. Allows to bypass CID restrictions (branded FW)
5. Allows to change serial number/IMEI if you look hard enough
S-OFF is great for us, but for HTC it's just extra costs.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

I don't really see why anyone want any OTA or RUU to flash, the entire purpose of being rooted s-off and everything about this is....
TO USE A ROOTED STOCK ROM....... OR DEODEX ROM....
I think that says everything.... I chose the revone,,, because why in the world did moonshine wait to release it, I will not say my personal opinion what I think about that...

mdiaz33685 said:
I don't really see why anyone want any OTA or RUU to flash, the entire purpose of being rooted s-off and everything about this is....
TO USE A ROOTED STOCK ROM....... OR DEODEX ROM....
I think that says everything.... I chose the revone,,, because why in the world did moonshine wait to release it, I will not say my personal opinion what I think about that...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There isnt a custom rom out there for the ONE that requires s-off..If custom rom is what YOU WANT then you only need root. However custom roms do not include all firmware from new ruus or OTA's. Being s-off allows you to get these upgrades without waiting on your device specific ruu. I dont think the majority wants it so they can stay stock to get OTA's. Its so they have a choice and can upgrade when they want to. :victory:
Please say your personal opinion about moonshine, your other comments are your personal opinion, why stop now? And what would moonshine have to gain by waiting to release? I'm sure they were perfecting the code..making things as easy as possible for me and YOU. originally Thumb drives weren't supported yet now they are. The thumb drive didnt write its own code to make that happen.. Do you think cracking HTCs security and writing a user friendly app that has little to no chance to harm your device is fast and easy? If so please show us how its done. IMO If you cant do it yourself, and you are not paying for it, it shouldn't matter how long it took to release.

nugzo said:
There isnt a custom rom out there for the ONE that requires s-off..If custom rom is what YOU WANT then you only need root. However custom roms do not include all firmware from new ruus or OTA's. Being s-off allows you to get these upgrades without waiting on your device specific ruu. I dont think the majority wants it so they can stay stock to get OTA's. Its so they have a choice and can upgrade when they want to. :victory:
Please say your personal opinion about moonshine, your other comments are your personal opinion, why stop now? And what would moonshine have to gain by waiting to release? I'm sure they were perfecting the code..making things as easy as possible for me and YOU. originally Thumb drives weren't supported yet now they are. The thumb drive didnt write its own code to make that happen.. Do you think cracking HTCs security and writing a user friendly app that has little to no chance to harm your device is fast and easy? If so please show us how its done. IMO If you cant do it yourself, and you are not paying for it, it shouldn't matter how long it took to release.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you noticed, I did not say anything negative, I didn't say my opionion. I did not thrash or flame moonshine. that is why I said I will keep my personal opionion to myself, I respect the developers, I don't develop or know the 1st thing about that.
so that being said, says all...
I say for people being rooted, get a stock rom, or firmwares and the developers release everything we need.
when someone installs ruu or otas. there hboots are changed, and then at one point or another u possibly wont be able to downgrade or something, that is why I say to stay away from RUU's... that is the only thing.
SO PLEASE, UNDERSTAND. I TOTALLY RESPECT MOONSHINE...:good: :silly:

For people with S-OFF, it won't matter if HBOOT is upgraded as long as the Radio flag is changed, then S-OFF will be permanent. Great for you!
But HTC will release updates with new HBOOTs and those will be shipped with newer devices. If they patch up the exploits, and I don't see why they won't, we'll be back to square one. Obviously it doesn't matter right now, but in the future I'm sure it will be an issue.
PS. There's even a new HBOOT on the 4.2.2 firmware and devices will soon start shipping with it.

Thread closed
Deleted about half the posts for trolling or Off-Topic.
All that could have been usefully said about that topic is said obviously as the discussion drifted to the advantages of Linux....