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It is not every day that a cellphone manufacturer sets out its stall to defend an older operating system. Well, that is exactly what Sony Ericsson did at a press briefing (or discussion, as they preferred to call it) in Delhi yesterday as it tried to explain to selected members of the press why Android 1.6 was not too far behind Android 2.1 and even 2.2. The reason for this faith in the older version of Android is simple – Sony Ericsson has no fewer than three devices (the Xperia X10, the X10 mini and the X10 mini pro) running on the platform.
Sony Ericsson’s argument was that while there was no doubting that the devices ran on an older version of Android, the company had company had done more than enough to include features in its UI (called UIX) to make it comparable with newer versions of the OS. Features like better camera controls, Timescape, Mediascape and improved media players, claimed the company brought the X10 range of devices very close to anything that Android 2.1 devices could deliver. With the exception of multi-touch, as one gentleman from the company added. What’s more, while a major update to the X10 would take it up to Android 2.1 later this year, there would also be a number of smaller tweaks that would continue improving the user experience (such as allowing them to use Timescape without going to the device’s browser, and improvements to the browser itself) on the device, beginning with an update coming in a couple of weeks.
For all the company’s claims, however, it was difficult not to feel a tinge of regret that all the hard work put into the interface layer had not gone into Android 2.1, which all said and done, is a few streets ahead of 1.6 in terms of appearance and performance. Especially when one considers the fact that the X10 was rolled out well after (almost four months after) the Motorola Droid/Milestone which was already running Android 2.0 (later updated to 2.1). Yes, there is no doubting that Sony Ericsson has done a lot with Android 1.6, more perhaps than any cellphone manufacturer, but there is also no doubting the fact that its decision to choose 1.6 rather than a newer version of Android on one of the most powerful configurations seen on a smartphone was more than a little befuddling. The company executives can rail on about the fact that “user experience is more important than the version of the OS” (yes, one of them actually said that) and the fact that the “X10 performs as well if not better than any device running Android 2.1, with the exception of multi-touch” (yes, that was said too), but these claims are undermined by the fact that a person who pays a premium price for a handset expects it to be running the latest software in town. And heck, if 1.6 was SO hot, why on earth is Sony Ericsson itself working on an update to 2.1?
It was a brave innings by Sony Ericsson for Android 1.6, but alas, it was in a losing cause. There is no doubt that the X10 is one of the best Android 1.6 devices in town, but it would have perhaps been the best smartphone in the world had it run 2.1. And by the time it does get down to running 2.1, the Android world would have perhaps moved on to 2.2 and beyond. Time and updates wait for no one in the tech world, not even Sony Ericsson.
This happened recently in india,Sony Ericsson organised a Round Table Android Meet where they were to discuss about there Android commitment.
Sony Ericsson India also said that , they are Committed to Providing Updates to Xperia X10 throughout it’s Lifecylce.
here is da link http://onlygizmos.com/sony-ericsson-bats-bravely-for-android-1-6/2010/06/
there would also be a number of smaller tweaks that would continue improving the user experience (such as allowing them to use Timescape without going to the device’s browser, and improvements to the browser itself) on the device, beginning with an update coming in a couple of weeks.
this really looks promising..i guess SE r really improving da overall UI..doing everything inside timescape looks very promising indeed...i hope dey roll da update soon
Look what froyo adds to the table for android. 2.1 update might be big for SE but the standard by then will be 2.2. Again with the catch up game.
Not a good sign at all from SE.
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Like da way dey did with 1.6 including some features of 2.1. i feel SE will include some features of 2.2 in 2.1 update
Judging from past exeprience (X1), I doubt X10 will ever see Froyo (unless rooted of course)... We'll be lucky if we get 2.1 this year, knowing SE software upgrade practices I won't be surprised if 2.1 gets pushed for Q1 then Q2... 2011
And before we know - ups "the lifespan" of the device will end "Come and by our new X100 (or whatever)". Welcome to the world of Sony Ericsson!
leobg said:
Judging from past exeprience (X1), I doubt X10 will ever see Froyo (unless rooted of course)... We'll be lucky if we get 2.1 this year, knowing SE software upgrade practices I won't be surprised if 2.1 gets pushed for Q1 then Q2... 2011
And before we know - ups "the lifespan" of the device will end "Come and by our new X100 (or whatever)". Welcome to the world of Sony Ericsson!
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Exactly!
How about getting the battery life to what was promised at time of sale? When to do we hear SE talk about this issue. And, since there is never any mention of what the planned life cycle is, it is like promising nothing! Political BS.
And, I would like to correct one other point someone mentioned. By the time the X10 gets 2.1, the standard will be 2.3 (not 2.2), and there is a massive difference.
And, how about the fact the flash 10.1 will only be compatible with 2.2 or higher?
Still hoping for 2.2 they should skip 2.1
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leobg said:
Judging from past exeprience (X1), I doubt X10 will ever see Froyo (unless rooted of course)... We'll be lucky if we get 2.1 this year, knowing SE software upgrade practices I won't be surprised if 2.1 gets pushed for Q1 then Q2... 2011
And before we know - ups "the lifespan" of the device will end "Come and by our new X100 (or whatever)". Welcome to the world of Sony Ericsson!
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Yeah, because HTC didn't just abandon the one year old HTC Magic, right?
Perspective people! It's not just SE... every company out there does this, and to think that some other company is going to be any better is deluding yourself.
Htc did a great job on the magic,with the sense ui ,i think they did a great job if you think of the hardware limitation this unit have.
i doubt X10 will sell much in India anyway.....the android platform hasnt taken over the apple market share yet.
much youngsters are still drawn to iphone 3gs.
anyway...i am waiting for updates.
main issues: Low in-call volume, poor battery life, limited functionality of timescape.
Yeah I had wanted to go to that round table conference. Take a bat and give some o the Sony execs a piece o my mind. How could the dev and execs of SE be.ok with releasing their flagship phone with an outdated OS. It's ridiculous! It's like putting ur ferrari in a race to be driven by your grandmother.
Man I hope root is achieved. I kinda like the stuff that SE has.done to make the phone different from the others. But I like better call.volume, flash support, better battery life, more RAM, auto flash, root requiring apps, etc more. So its going to be the vanilla froyo ftw for me.
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ashman84 said:
Yeah I had wanted to go to that round table conference. Take a bat and give some o the Sony execs a piece o my mind. How could the dev and execs of SE be.ok with releasing their flagship phone with an outdated OS. It's ridiculous! It's like putting ur ferrari in a race to be driven by your grandmother.
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You're so cute!
Hey, look at me, I'm a major international corporation! I have a product for sale! It has a slightly out of date operating system! Please don't buy our product! It's terrible that we included most of the functionality from the newer OS in our build of the older OS! We are a terrible company!
--
Now, do you think Sony Ericsson is really going to come out and tell you "Yes, our phone sucks don't buy it"? Of course they're going to defend their choices, if they don't then it's called a marketing failure. No one's going to tell you their product sucks and still expect people to buy it.
iead1 said:
You're so cute!
Hey, look at me, I'm a major international corporation! I have a product for sale! It has a slightly out of date operating system! Please don't buy our product! It's terrible that we included most of the functionality from the newer OS in our build of the older OS! We are a terrible company!
--
Now, do you think Sony Ericsson is really going to come out and tell you "Yes, our phone sucks don't buy it"? Of course they're going to defend their choices, if they don't then it's called a marketing failure. No one's going to tell you their product sucks and still expect people to buy it.
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Click to collapse
First off, thanks for compliment. I hope ur a 22 year old, 5 8" smoking hot woman who didnt go dancing with her girlfriends tonight and instead sat her a** down in front of a computer to randomly comment on xda.
secondly, SE has historically always been flaky with providing upgrades for their phones. Although they say that they will support the x10, its almost a given that they wont stick to their timelines. Its been the case with every phone they've released.
thirdly, what are the functionalities that they've included in 1.6 that you speak of??? To have an OS that cannot support 16M colors when the hardware can? TO have an OS that cannot support more RAM than 256MB? To not have flash support for god knows how long considering we're only getting 2.1 in Q4 and we need 2.2 for flash support? To be left behind in Android market cause all new apps will be for 2.1 or 2.2? To not have auto flash on the camera which is supposedly a limitation of 1.6?
And lastly, I wasn't taking a dig at the marketers of the phone. its their job to sell the phone and from what I can gather, they seem to be doing a good job. What my peeve was about is that at the design and execution stage the devs and execs at SE should have made a conscious effort to put the best in their best phone. I dont care if the x10 had a marketing failure. Its specs are good enough for anyone to figure out the phone's brilliant. There was a strategy planning and execution failure for the x10 at SE and that's just not done when your company is worth 6.7 billion (at last count). It should've had 2.1 right from the get go considering other phones released before the x10 had 2.1 as stock.
So please, dont go running your mouth off if you dont know facts. Anyone who can see what the x10 is capable of will realize that its the OS thats keeping this phone back. I love the x series of SE. I've had them all. I just want my phone to be the best it can be, which it isn't right now.
and on side notes:
A) Android 1.6 isn't a SLIGHTLY outdated OS. Its outdated period. Especially since 2.2 is out and 2.3 at the end of the year.
B) "we included most of the functionality from the newer OS in our build of the older OS! "
a grandmom on steriods is still a grandmom on steroids.
ashman84 said:
First off, thanks for compliment. I hope ur a 22 year old, 5 8" smoking hot woman who didnt go dancing with her girlfriends tonight and instead sat her a** down in front of a computer to randomly comment on xda.
secondly, SE has historically always been flaky with providing upgrades for their phones. Although they say that they will support the x10, its almost a given that they wont stick to their timelines. Its been the case with every phone they've released.
thirdly, what are the functionalities that they've included in 1.6 that you speak of??? To have an OS that cannot support 16M colors when the hardware can? TO have an OS that cannot support more RAM than 256MB? To not have flash support for god knows how long considering we're only getting 2.1 in Q4 and we need 2.2 for flash support? To be left behind in Android market cause all new apps will be for 2.1 or 2.2? To not have auto flash on the camera which is supposedly a limitation of 1.6?
And lastly, I wasn't taking a dig at the marketers of the phone. its their job to sell the phone and from what I can gather, they seem to be doing a good job. What my peeve was about is that at the design and execution stage the devs and execs at SE should have made a conscious effort to put the best in their best phone. I dont care if the x10 had a marketing failure. Its specs are good enough for anyone to figure out the phone's brilliant. There was a strategy planning and execution failure for the x10 at SE and that's just not done when your company is worth 6.7 billion (at last count). It should've had 2.1 right from the get go considering other phones released before the x10 had 2.1 as stock.
So please, dont go running your mouth off if you dont know facts. Anyone who can see what the x10 is capable of will realize that its the OS thats keeping this phone back. I love the x series of SE. I've had them all. I just want my phone to be the best it can be, which it isn't right now.
and on side notes:
A) Android 1.6 isn't a SLIGHTLY outdated OS. Its outdated period. Especially since 2.2 is out and 2.3 at the end of the year.
B) "we included most of the functionality from the newer OS in our build of the older OS! "
a grandmom on steriods is still a grandmom on steroids.
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Click to collapse
First of all, you said you wanted to take a baseball bat to the Sony execs, so yes, you are taking a dig at the marketers of the phone. A pretty big, violent dig.
Second, I'm not just talking crap. Sony added a lot of stuff to 1.6 that didn't exist before, like the Camera app, Mediascape, and the custom dialer.
Third, and this is the biggest point of all, simply put, the phone was never, ever, ever, ever, ever advertised as having anything at all other than Android OS version 1.6. You can cry all you want about this point, but, if you bought this phone, you knew it coming in. If there's something you wanted that was 2.1 specific, you should have went for a phone that had 2.1 preinstalled. It was known for months that the phone would release with 1.6.
It's this last point that really just boggles my mind. I don't understand people who buy something, knowing 100% of it's capabilities, then ***** when it doesn't do something it wasn't advertised as being able to do. It's like buying a Toyota Prius, knowing it's a Toyota Prius, then complaining after you buy it that it doesn't perform like a Ferrari. If you wanted something that performed like a Ferrari, you should have bought the Ferrari.
The phone can be "better." Anything can be "better", but for what was advertised, it's as good as it was made out to be.
Side note:
1.6 is only "slightly" outdated. It was released September 16, 2009. In the time between then and now, only one update has been officially released. At the release of the phone, the 1.6 was only about 7 months old. It's not Sony's fault that Google pushes out new updates faster than manufacturers can handle them.
ashman84 said:
secondly, SE has historically always been flaky with providing upgrades for their phones. Although they say that they will support the x10, its almost a given that they wont stick to their timelines. Its been the case with every phone they've released.
thirdly, what are the functionalities that they've included in 1.6 that you speak of??? To have an OS that cannot support 16M colors when the hardware can? TO have an OS that cannot support more RAM than 256MB? To not have flash support for god knows how long considering we're only getting 2.1 in Q4 and we need 2.2 for flash support? To be left behind in Android market cause all new apps will be for 2.1 or 2.2? To not have auto flash on the camera which is supposedly a limitation of 1.6?
And lastly, I wasn't taking a dig at the marketers of the phone. its their job to sell the phone and from what I can gather, they seem to be doing a good job. What my peeve was about is that at the design and execution stage the devs and execs at SE should have made a conscious effort to put the best in their best phone. I dont care if the x10 had a marketing failure. Its specs are good enough for anyone to figure out the phone's brilliant. There was a strategy planning and execution failure for the x10 at SE and that's just not done when your company is worth 6.7 billion (at last count). It should've had 2.1 right from the get go considering other phones released before the x10 had 2.1 as stock.
So please, dont go running your mouth off if you dont know facts. Anyone who can see what the x10 is capable of will realize that its the OS thats keeping this phone back. I love the x series of SE. I've had them all. I just want my phone to be the best it can be, which it isn't right now.
and on side notes:
A) Android 1.6 isn't a SLIGHTLY outdated OS. Its outdated period. Especially since 2.2 is out and 2.3 at the end of the year.
B) "we included most of the functionality from the newer OS in our build of the older OS! "
a grandmom on steriods is still a grandmom on steroids.
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idiots will always be idiots, people like you would always complain and not think.
1) X10 was announced a month+ after Android 1.6 was released, 2.1 was released in january, X10 having the hardware better than the OS given shows that it's having the possibilities of having updates in the future.
Though they could have just scraped 1.6 and go for 2.1, but they wouldn't be able to keep what they promised for the consumers, namely the release date of X10, a near-somewhat stable version of UX adapted for 2.1 (tho it was still unstable for 1.6 but later on improved in minor updates) as well as timescape and mediascape, these might not be important to you but if they're not you might have gone for HTC instead (which makes me wonder why on earth you'd go for X10 if not for their unique UX and apps).
2) As big as a company can get, they wouldn't be able to have some of their resources to work only for constantly updating X10 for every new version of Android OS released by Google (1.6 - september, 2.1 - january, 2.2 - may) as SE has other phones to work on as well (for new, old, unannounced products etc)
before you go on talking about HTC manages to pull that off, answer me this, how many android phones were announced/released by HTC from early 2010 until now? at the rate they're in, do you think they'll support the old phones constantly with updates? I bet they'll keep on releasing android smartphones with the latest firmware and leave the old products to dry after an update or 2. SE on the other hand told us that they're trying to have X10 to have a long life-cycle (as late as the update may be)
as for your sidenote
A) 1.6 IS slightly outdated, it's been out since september 2009 and as I said, Android OS seems to have a life-expectancy of 4-5 months, majority of Android phones would be outdated every 4-5 months as well following your logic.
How about the Droid getting 2.2 today.
Source: http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/22/sony-ericssons-ceo-promises-big-surprises-in-the-next-few-mont/
That jackass... you want to bet they are officially announcing no more updates for X10 after this year
well i read somewhere yesterday that SE is planning to provide updates to the X10 throughout its lifespan so that the phone is not antiquated easily.
now i wonder what is the lifespan of x10 according to SE..!!
Maybe this is where they announce the release of a future device with a new design and actual up to date software?
Yes its going to be called the psphone
Grand opening and he is drunk?
Mmmm are we getting android 3 before psp2?
Sucks for psp department, cos se are lazy ass.
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Could possibly be an SE WP7 phone and/or a new android phone. Could be the 'rumoured' Xperia X11 and Xperia X12. Would hope there is continued support for the X10 announced regardless of what happens.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
Sweeeeeet!!!!!
How about skipping the conspiracy theories?
An X12 (or whatever they'll call the +1 version) preview would seem likely or perhaps even an updated roadmap for the year 2011. All nay-sayers seem to enjoy that we haven't gotten any info about Froyo and use the 2010 roadmap to support their thesis that we won't get it at all.
But on the other hand you can take the "SE is not pure evil" route and consider that the 2.2 kernel was trickier than anticipated to port and thus delayed. It's not impossible that we could get Froyo in 2011 and shipping that in 1H 2011 could be considered a big thing.
ddewbofh said:
How about skipping the conspiracy theories?
An X12 (or whatever they'll call the +1 version) preview would seem likely or perhaps even an updated roadmap for the year 2011. All nay-sayers seem to enjoy that we haven't gotten any info about Froyo and use the 2010 roadmap to support their thesis that we won't get it at all.
But on the other hand you can take the "SE is not pure evil" route and consider that the 2.2 kernel was trickier than anticipated to port and thus delayed. It's not impossible that we could get Froyo in 2011 and shipping that in 1H 2011 could be considered a big thing.
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Pretty certain there's a SE Win Phone 7... that should be one of the surprises
And then there's the rumoured PSPhone, and who knows... an X10 tab LOL
ddewbofh said:
How about skipping the conspiracy theories?
An X12 (or whatever they'll call the +1 version) preview would seem likely or perhaps even an updated roadmap for the year 2011. All nay-sayers seem to enjoy that we haven't gotten any info about Froyo and use the 2010 roadmap to support their thesis that we won't get it at all.
But on the other hand you can take the "SE is not pure evil" route and consider that the 2.2 kernel was trickier than anticipated to port and thus delayed. It's not impossible that we could get Froyo in 2011 and shipping that in 1H 2011 could be considered a big thing.
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Exactly.
I think that SE may have got their act together (in thinking about software as well as hardware), and are maybe waiting to update to the next android revision (2.2+) or they've had problems with porting froyo, as you say.
But I think that they will also release newer phones around march to halfway through next year, that'll be announced in the next few months.
I think the X10 is supposed to have a 2 year lifespan... No?
karendar said:
I think the X10 is supposed to have a 2 year lifespan... No?
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i hope for a longer one...!!
I just LOVE this phone..!! not more than my lappy though.
HunteronX said:
....
But I think that they will also release newer phones around march to halfway through next year, that'll be announced in the next few months.
_________________
Rooted XPERIA X10i - R2BA026
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they definately will and lets hope the x10 gets supported longer than what most ppl think...!!
I would be willing to bet that they will announce the release of their latest must have device. It will be such a draw that X10 owners will forget that they are still waiting for their revision to be completed. We will all rush to have this new must have device with nearly all the bells and whistles. Only, we will have to wait a bit longer for a software revision that will take, oh about forever, or just long enough for SE to announce their next latest and greatest. Which will also make you forget that you are still waiting for your current devices revision. and so on, and so on, and so on.
This is like da ja vue.
It is starting to bare more than a strong resemblance to what happened to me with the P900, P910, and X1.
The cynic in me says hey, we cant update the x10 as we thought so chuck out a new model for our loyal customers to buy...... i only had mine cos voda said new firmware sept. Oh bugger nuts!
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fm1776 said:
I would be willing to bet that they will announce the release of their latest must have device. It will be such a draw that X10 owners will forget that they are still waiting for their revision to be completed. We will all rush to have this new must have device with nearly all the bells and whistles. Only, we will have to wait a bit longer for a software revision that will take, oh about forever, or just long enough for SE to announce their next latest and greatest. Which will also make you forget that you are still waiting for your current devices revision. and so on, and so on, and so on.
This is like da ja vue.
It is starting to bare more than a strong resemblance to what happened to me with the P900, P910, and X1.
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If that happened to you with the P900,why buy the P910 and the X1, and then the X10?
And why tell us not to buy SE when you did buy,and you will continue to buy SE products?
MAN... you are strange
Experience says "Whats Surprising to SE, may be an old news to the rest of the world!"
berbecverde said:
If that happened to you with the P900,why buy the P910 and the X1, and then the X10?
And why tell us not to buy SE when you did buy,and you will continue to buy SE products?
MAN... you are strange
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I know. Believe me looking back I feel pretty silly.
Edit- Sorry, to answer you question. I actually might, if it were truly great. But believe me I would wait several months for the product to be tested by the market, and only if the device is release as planned. No more broken promises. I would rather have a lesser device with a company that is more straight forward!
Nimche said:
Experience says "Whats Surprising to SE, may be an old news to the rest of the world!"
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LOL..!!
seems to be that way since long time...!!
I predict WP7 devices, some feature phones and two new android phones that will look amazing and have everyone thinking about them until they come out at the end of 2011 once every other manufacturer has surpassed any glitzy features they came up with to make you want them now.
Does this sound familiar?
At the moment I'm interested in what they will do for their next hardware. I've got my x10 and as much as I'm frustrated at the way its been produced and the laughable software updates i still like it so much more than my HTC Touch Diamond.
Its clear that wanting to level with the other android devices simply isn't going to happen so lets all get on with waiting out our contracts and hope the next SE android device really kicks ass.
SE is sitting on the key brands that make a top multimedia device and simply needs to stop holding back on features from the Cybershot and Walkman brand rather than coming up with the smoke and mirrors of Timescape and Mediascape. If these apps must continue to be part of the Xperia line then have them as apps instead of welded in bloatware.
I wish there was some way of making sure that this happened but it seems that we can petition and moan on blogs and forums until we're blue in the fingers but in the end SE will do whatever they want and that tends to have nothing to do with what we the Geek consumer wants.
I'll stay hopeful.
"Most truths we're once deemed blasphemies"
... for forgiveness?
I was giving this some thought the other day. I like the hardware in the x10 (great GPS, pretty decent cam, LED notification light, nice look to it, etc) but SE has really screwed us on the software!
I would say probably over 50% of us here on this forum are likely to move on to a manufacturer who will not give us a phone with a locked bootloader despite releasing it completely crippled right off the bat.
buuuuuuut, what if SE dropped a bombshell on us just before they stopped supporting the x10? What if they released a port of the ARC 2.3 software for the x10? Complete forgiveness, partial forgiveness, or too little too late?
If such a 2.3 release came along with an unlocked bootloader:
I'd be happy, and more inclined to wait and see regarding SE products in the future (to see if they indeed had smartened up).
If such a 2.3 release came in the next month or two:
I'd say "thanks", I'd be less pissed off and thus probably stop my campaign of exposing SE's lack of customer support in every SE-related article I come across, and still switch to another manufacturer when I get my next phone.
If such a 2.3 release was sometime many months from now:
I'd say "about time", and continue as I do now, and avoid SE products in the future.
saltorio said:
If such a 2.3 release came along with an unlocked bootloader:
I'd be happy, and more inclined to wait and see regarding SE products in the future (to see if they indeed had smartened up).
If such a 2.3 release came in the next month or two:
I'd say "thanks", I'd be less pissed off and thus probably stop my campaign of exposing SE's lack of customer support in every SE-related article I come across, and still switch to another manufacturer when I get my next phone.
If such a 2.3 release was sometime many months from now:
I'd say "about time", and continue as I do now, and avoid SE products in the future.
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Click to collapse
+1. I agree...
saltorio said:
If such a 2.3 release came along with an unlocked bootloader:
I'd be happy, and more inclined to wait and see regarding SE products in the future (to see if they indeed had smartened up).
If such a 2.3 release came in the next month or two:
I'd say "thanks", I'd be less pissed off and thus probably stop my campaign of exposing SE's lack of customer support in every SE-related article I come across, and still switch to another manufacturer when I get my next phone.
If such a 2.3 release was sometime many months from now:
I'd say "about time", and continue as I do now, and avoid SE products in the future.
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Click to collapse
I can guarantee that they will not unlock the bootloader. Why would they? So that people can steal their precious Timescape/Mediascape?
2.3 - I realized that I'm too used to Timescape... the Launcher Pro friends widget has too many bugs for me and I've not found anything as nice to look at as Timescape. However, a little less battery sucking would be appreciated
So even when the AOSP reaches 2.3, I don't think I will flash
** This is a debate thread, I'm not talking of lawsuit... yet **
Guys, I'm thinking about something since SE officially said the current XPERIA phones will be abandonned.
Let's figure this :
1. Sony Ericsson is officially abandonning us ;
2. We have here (and on other fora) a strong community of users, and capable developers in every domain (kernel, graphics, etc etc). Each of us can help in any domain related (programming, graphics, bug report, help for newbies, etc etc etc)
Regarding these, we should try to make together kind of "class action", to force SE to give us what we need for further development.
It can become a "real" class-action, it can be a petition, etc etc, all ideas are welcome.
The request must include, and for ALL current abandonned XPERIA phones (X10, x10 mini, x10 mini pro, x8) :
- Kernel source code (we almost got it)
- Bootloader source-code with no encryption or generic unencrypted bootloader
- All source code drivers
- All source code for the preinstalled apps in the last realease (2.1)
- All original graphics
- All source code for SE upcoming "patches" (as multitouch-like one).
- Anything else needed for future support I may forget here (please tell).
This will allow us to continue development on our XPERIAs. And we'll need these, because if we don't get them, even our community won't be able to do great things... If we got such things, we'd be able to run our phones on 2.2 and now 2.3 with no problem -- and look how it is today : we can, but very buggy because we start from nothing.
So I ask everybody to join our strengh and do something to get all we need to keep our XPERIAs alive !!!
Our phones are not even 1 year old, so please don't let all of us alone. I also strongly encourage to tell everyone who is concerned about this (we need as many people as we can to force Sony-Ericsson) : other fora, people you know, blogs, etc etc... If we don't do anything, our phones are good for trash.
THANKS IN ADVANCE !
Sorry, but this is positively silly.
They will not give you *anything* that they're not legally entitled to (which I think is only the code for the OS, which they already do).
And do you mean class-action as a lawsuit? If so, it's a positively worthlesss endeavor. All that will happen is that some lawyers will get rich and you'll get a 5$ off coupon the next Sony-Ericsson.
Bootloader is proprietary. They're probably using this same bootloader for the upcoming phones and the generations after. They're not going to hand over the keys.
Drivers are also proprietary. A lot of times, code for the drivers are licensed by the manufacturer, so even if SE wanted to 'give it away', they couldn't. Look at the openmoko phone and their driver issues since their inception (2004?).
Source code for preinstalled apps? Like moxier and creatatouch? First, they probably license these apps either from other developers or an in-house studio. Why would anyone want any of these softwares in the first place?
Graphics? I think the community can come up with better and isn't it pretty easy to rip the graphics?
All upcoming patches? Seriously? Why do any work at all at this point? the multitouch 'patch' is actually an updated driver.
Petitions and the like aren't going to do anything. If you're upset, then write a letter to SE. Not e-mail, but letters. Don't buy future SE phones and dissuade others from doing so. Learn cryptography and do a fault based attack on the RSA encryption scheme used to unlock the bootloader. Hell, get a job for SE and steal everything, lol (that last one is a joke... very big crime). SE knows people are pissed but they don't see it as financially beneficial to do any future major updates (major as in kernel change or substantial usability change). Let them ignore the long term outlook by pissing off their current users.
Seriously, these stupid threads have got to stop.
totalundone said:
Sorry, but this is positively silly.
They will not give you *anything* that they're not legally entitled to (which I think is only the code for the OS, which they already do).
And do you mean class-action as a lawsuit? If so, it's a positively worthlesss endeavor. All that will happen is that some lawyers will get rich and you'll get a 5$ off coupon the next Sony-Ericsson.
Bootloader is proprietary. They're probably using this same bootloader for the upcoming phones and the generations after. They're not going to hand over the keys.
Drivers are also proprietary. A lot of times, code for the drivers are licensed by the manufacturer, so even if SE wanted to 'give it away', they couldn't. Look at the openmoko phone and their driver issues since their inception (2004?).
Source code for preinstalled apps? Like moxier and creatatouch? First, they probably license these apps either from other developers or an in-house studio. Why would anyone want any of these softwares in the first place?
Graphics? I think the community can come up with better and isn't it pretty easy to rip the graphics?
All upcoming patches? Seriously? Why do any work at all at this point? the multitouch 'patch' is actually an updated driver.
Petitions and the like aren't going to do anything. If you're upset, then write a letter to SE. Not e-mail, but letters. Don't buy future SE phones and dissuade others from doing so. Learn cryptography and do a fault based attack on the RSA encryption scheme used to unlock the bootloader. Hell, get a job for SE and steal everything, lol (that last one is a joke... very big crime). SE knows people are pissed but they don't see it as financially beneficial to do any future major updates (major as in kernel change or substantial usability change). Let them ignore the long term outlook by pissing off their current users.
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Click to collapse
I have to agree on this,
SE is not abandoning any customers, but they look at things in terms of financial benefit, they will not obey to any demands from anyone.
so there is no point of starting threads like since it will not change anything.
i have still not seen anything official from sony that they are abandoning the x10 series....
FYI, they've release 4 updates in less than a month's time. this is typically not actions of a company abondoning a product line.
Facebook 10 hours ago -
Hi Harman and Jenthe,
We have recently decided to not step up to Android 2.2 or 2.3 for Xperia X10. Our software developers have made this decision based on their opinion saying that a step-up would not enhance the overall user experience. Xperia X10 operates at it's best on Android 2.1.
I'm sorry if you feel this way Jenthe. It's not our intent to make our users unhappy of course.
We will however not abandon this phone. We will keep developing on 2.1 and multi touch / pinch zoom is planned to be released in a coming update for Xperia X10.
You can read more about this in this post,
http://blogs.sonyericsson.com/products/2010/11/17/work-ongoing-on-pinch-zoom-for-xperia-x10/
-Markus
Sony Ericsson Answers Team
--i feel an official annoucement is close---
uh, you seriously trust something something posted by someone on "the answer team"?
you do realize that these people are basically the same as call center workers, right?
x10 official support forum
Hello Everyone,
My message here is purely one of acknowledgement. We understand your anger, we see your obvious frustration, and we are certainly saddened by your new impressions of our company and products.
I won't repeat any of the comments from my colleagues on our Blog, Facebook, or Twitter. You've seen it all before.
We are here, we are listening, we are working hard to make sure we can impress you in the future if you chose us again.
-Martha
Sony Ericsson Answers Team
it evens sounds like there backtracking the 2 year support too with ...
Hi,
Really quick: We have stated we typically support devices for UP TO 2 years after launch.
This obviously applies to the date of first launch in whatever country it's available in first.
The key here is "up to", if I remember correctly, you mentioned Nokia does the same thing
http://talk.sonyericsson.com/message/45612#45612
and
It did at one point states we would support phones for "up to 2 years after launch" at www.sonyericsson.com/update. This was changed some time ago
http://talk.sonyericsson.com/message/45612#45612
i really hope your right and these customer service advisers aint got the foggiest but the message is getting out there by facebook, twitter, and the support forums.
Sony wouldnt even give permission to the World of Spectrum site to release old ZX Spectrum games and the Spectrum was abandoned nearly 20 years ago. No hope im afraid.
I am as p*ssed as the next guy, but this is getting silly.
Petitions are one thing, it expresses our annoyance, but this?!?!?!?
A step too far.
I won't even bother explaining why as I can't be arsed to be honest.
Sod SE, let our devs do it instead, they obviously have the skills lacking by SE.
..............
I see that someone can actually read others posts, as I was the one who originally posted about a 'class action', and that was only to get Android 2.2 on our phones, as SE in Turkey had previously released an Email saying they were working on, and would release 2.2! I'm sure you know that SE released another email soon after, saying that SE Turkey had made a mistake and 2.2 would not be released on the X10.
Thread post can be read here
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=10527595#post10527595 post 163
Just because they are not updating the x10 to 2.2 doesn't mean they have abandoned us. Just like the multi-touch update, there will probably be more enhancements to 2.1
Lee1972 said:
Sony wouldnt even give permission to the World of Spectrum site to release old ZX Spectrum games and the Spectrum was abandoned nearly 20 years ago. No hope im afraid.
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Click to collapse
thats because they're selling these games at PlayStation Store for PS3 now...
Buisness is buisness as they say.
Nothing we can do about it OP
Erofich said:
thats because they're selling these games at PlayStation Store for PS3 now...
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Click to collapse
The actual Spectrum games or remakes? Theres around 8 Spectrum games Sony refused WOS to free distribution, the originals would look crap on a phone let alone PS3!
All x10 users should get upgrades to an arc for no more than 100 dollars as soon as its available for being delt such a lacking smartphone. Haha
Meaning SE should do this for us to make things up to us.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
mrljlamon said:
All x10 users should get upgrades to an arc for no more than 100 dollars as soon as its available for being delt such a lacking smartphone. Haha
Meaning SE should do this for us to make things up to us.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
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Click to collapse
Realistically, SE doesn't really owe us anything, and I promise that they are not going to give you anything either.
Even if a bunch of you swore off SE phones, they would still be alright, and it would cost them more to give us all rebates than it would to just try for a new customer base.
Good luck with that though,
Also this thread is ridiculous. No one is getting anything
Guys, please note I didn't talk of class-action, I'm talking about a "class-action" move : what I mean is not to do something penal (but it can be), but it is to join all users and see together what we can do.
Because of course Sony won't listen if there are only 1, 10 or 10 000 people complaining a bit, and much more users are shocked by what SE is doing, and if we don't complain enough, we are just SE sheeps...
Guys, sorry, I'm coming from iPhone branch of Apple, and I do know now how we get f***ed simply to promote new models - by "deleting" old ones. You really think SE will keep its 2 year maintenance ? I'd love to think so, but it's very usual to prepare one or two coming updates to make you feel you're not left over, but once your angriness is away, they abandon. Remember some sites note EOL will probably be announced starting from march...
Remember also Android 2.1 is not the last release and with upcoming 3.0 (anyone can say it's compatible or not, another debate) our OS is going older and older with no hardware reason -- we're currently just missing things like Flash, App2SD, but it will become soon a major problem as more and more apps/functionnalities won't be compatible.
So the idea is to ask SE for sources as their "perfect 2.1" is a dead-end for our phones -- and we all know they can operate very fine with -at least- 2.3.
I'm maybe silly but I've spent three months for buying my x10i and I won't let SE do what Apple is doing...
Visspui said:
Realistically, SE doesn't really owe us anything, and I promise that they are not going to give you anything either.
Even if a bunch of you swore off SE phones, they would still be alright, and it would cost them more to give us all rebates than it would to just try for a new customer base.
Good luck with that though,
Also this thread is ridiculous. No one is getting anything
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Click to collapse
I can't see the reason why they should do such thing, especially since they have done nothing wrong...
as you said, they owe us nothing
and true, this thread is ridiculous
I have begun posting comments every time I find an article on SonyEricsson's Xperia arc advising consumers looking for phones to take into consideration SE's current history of updates for the existing Xperia X10 series which are all still under contract. If a lot of us just continue doing this, then SonyEricsson will see these comments -- and consumers will think twice about getting a SE phone when there are other choices available.
Below is what I wrote on a couple of recent articles on the Xperia arc. Please feel free to amend this to suit your purposes. Also, please improve on my attempt and post your scripts for other people to post -- and provide links to some of the high traffic sites. Because SonyEricsson really is demonstrating its commitment now, spreading these messages really does have promise to force SonyEricsson to change course -- if they want to continue selling phones!
With contracts being typically 2 years, SonyEricsson's decision to abandon updates to the Xperia X10 series in less than one year is disgraceful, especially with the benefits of 2.2 (adobe flash, install to SD, processor optimizations, etc.).
And with SonyEricsson demonstrating this attitude with the existing, high-performance Xperia X10 series (which is more than capable of running 2.2, 2.3, and later), why would anyone trust them to do any different on the new Xperia arc?
The meaning of SonyEricsson's choices now are obvious to informed consumers: if you want to get the improvements to your phone that come from new versions of android, avoid SonyEricsson. HTC and others have a *much better* track record for providing updates to their customers.
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omg, people are tired of this ****.
/Close thread please.
Are you braindead enough to think that SE doesn't know we would like newer Android versions?
They're a business, not a charity. They can't afford to keep updating old phones, or no one will buy their newer ones. Simple as that.
If we just sit here and take it, then SE will be content to dish it out. If, otoh, we even appear to be able to dissuade new customers from going with SE, then they will support us because it is in SE's interest.
That. is. simple.
Better get to work then. Samsung ain't doing so hot with updates either. HTC has stopped with their older phones as well. Motorola has ignored a lot of its non-Verizon Droids.
What's left? The iPhone?
iead1 said:
Better get to work then. Samsung ain't doing so hot with updates either. HTC has stopped with their older phones as well. Motorola has ignored a lot of its non-Verizon Droids.
What's left? The iPhone?
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Click to collapse
Pretty much this. I'm all for complaining, but if you want up-to-date software, you have two choices: iphone or nexus.
I don't think that it's wasted effort to complain. How else would companies know how to service their customers better? Personally, I've given up on pretty much every manufacturer. As much as I hate apple, I'm pretty tempted to get an iphone if they were compatible with T-mobile's 3g just for the continued support because I'm not super happy with the design of the nexus line.
i try to do this in many facebook post under SE`s pages.
it better than nothing
Great another idiotic thread.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
iead1 said:
Are you braindead enough to think that SE doesn't know we would like newer Android versions?
They're a business, not a charity. They can't afford to keep updating old phones, or no one will buy their newer ones. Simple as that.
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Click to collapse
Old phone?
It was launched in March 2010.
the funniest thing about these threads are the people that go on to say... "Great another idiotic thread"
or
"Are you braindead enough to think that SE doesn't know we would like newer Android versions? They're a business, not a charity. They can't afford to keep updating old phones, or no one will buy their newer ones. Simple as that."
If you really think these things are that stupid, why do you even bother clicking on them when it clearly states what the thread is about... in this case anyway. Are you guys really that big of losers in life that you can't go by on the internet without clicking every single thread or do you just have that much time on your hands?
Either way i am sure some of us have come to a conclusion as to who the actual "idiot" or "braindead" is.
Oh and may i suggest some charity work if you have too much time on your hands?
Not a bad intention, but all these efforts are useless to "fight" against this. SE won't do things in the way people want. None of the other companies either will.
So why just don't give up and buy Arc? SE will happy for getting your $$$ preference again, and you'll be happy too 'cause you'll be in the top of the trend and with a phone with Gingerbread, the newest Android version. END.
***
Seriously, this has been discussed enough already.
I agree the entitlement generation needs to stop crying. However, threads like this one offer a solution to the problem, which I would support. Freedom of speech has been effective in creating change all over the world and throughout history. You cant change anything if you don't try. Those of you who post to close this thread are doing the same thing, just counterproductive.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
just why bother? if they did (for whatever reason) decide to release a SE 2.2 or above, it would be so full of bloatware that any benefit would be gone anyway. ive been running zdzihu's 2.2 froyo ROM for ages on mine, and there is a 2.3 gingerbread ROM that Jerpelea has made out even. Yes they are beta, or even alpha, but even if SE said yep we are doing it, they would take another 6 months to get it out - dont you think the custom 2.2, 2.3 would be just about perfect by then?
support the DEVS, not the global companies
stuff SE - i hate there roms anyway!
iead1 said:
Better get to work then. Samsung ain't doing so hot with updates either. HTC has stopped with their older phones as well. Motorola has ignored a lot of its non-Verizon Droids.
What's left? The iPhone?
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define old phones
if you say a 3 years old phone ok then it's ok not a phone with less thn 1 year of life span
alankstiyo said:
define old phones
if you say a 3 years old phone ok then it's ok not a phone with less thn 1 year of life span
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This device is good. It's freakin sexy. It's capable of running Froyo and Gingerbread. Until the new SE devices come out, this is their flagship phone.
I repeat, this phone is sexy, even next to the Arc, it still looks sexy and relevant. The innards are still relevant.
I don't understand why it's being treated like the SE bastard child.
We're in the driver's seat. Why not grab the wheel?
violentgoomba said:
I don't understand why it's being treated like the SE bastard child.
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Click to collapse
Because SonyEricsson is gambling they can get away with it.
The mass of users typically just complain to each other after they've already got the device and seen its limitations. "I'll never buy another one of their products!" But that is where it ends. Flashy ads for new products can overcome that kind of friction from scattered individuals.
But SonyEricsson needs good press to sell their new phones, and if the current users of SE phones are telling everyone in the venues promoting the new phones how SE is refusing to update what they have now, potential customers will be turned away.
Maybe this hasn't happened before because there was no android OS to make this all so transparent. Now it is easy for everyone to understand. New customers and old all speak the same language: android! If SE has current devices that are technically capable and they aren't keeping them up to date, why would they do so with their next device? They won't. The arc still has the Timescape and Mediascape cruft that is making the updates so hard; that hasn't changed. And the arc is going to have a single-core processor when the competitors will be pushing out phones with dual-cores. SE will predictably move from the arc as soon as they can and shift all their focus to the next phone. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.
SE is in a pattern of peddling near non-update-able phones. We just have to say that often enough, and they will change -- period.
And with the limited number of high-volume review sites, just one person would make a difference. A dozen or so posting thoughtful messages would be able to keep the issue visible on all the top-tier sites. A few hundred customers searching and posting just a few times a week each would keep the issue front and center on virtually every site of importance to SonyEricsson. SE would hope the protest would fizzle. But why would we undercut ourselves like lead1, "They can't afford to keep updating old phones, or no one will buy their newer ones. Simple as that" and caifanX10, "So why just don't give up and buy Arc? SE will happy for getting your $$$ preference again"?
The kind of protest I'm talking about here is easy to do; it has motivated, dissatisfied customers steaming now; and SE can't really get around it. We are in charge; we merely need to do something.
this is a young phone (less than a year old) with old software (more than a year old OS)
I agree with the Update, some products are still on support after several years on the market, the idea of support is to patch the vulnerabilities and improve the overall performance. If SE can do it with available Android OS why not?
shonangreg said:
Because SonyEricsson is gambling they can get away with it.
The mass of users typically just complain to each other after they've already got the device and seen its limitations. "I'll never buy another one of their products!" But that is where it ends. Flashy ads for new products can overcome that kind of friction from scattered individuals.
But SonyEricsson needs good press to sell their new phones, and if the current users of SE phones are telling everyone in the venues promoting the new phones how SE is refusing to update what they have now, potential customers will be turned away.
Maybe this hasn't happened before because there was no android OS to make this all so transparent. Now it is easy for everyone to understand. New customers and old all speak the same language: android! If SE has current devices that are technically capable and they aren't keeping them up to date, why would they do so with their next device? They won't. The arc still has the Timescape and Mediascape cruft that is making the updates so hard; that hasn't changed. And the arc is going to have a single-core processor when the competitors will be pushing out phones with dual-cores. SE will predictably move from the arc as soon as they can and shift all their focus to the next phone. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.
SE is in a pattern of peddling near non-update-able phones. We just have to say that often enough, and they will change -- period.
And with the limited number of high-volume review sites, just one person would make a difference. A dozen or so posting thoughtful messages would be able to keep the issue visible on all the top-tier sites. A few hundred customers searching and posting just a few times a week each would keep the issue front and center on virtually every site of importance to SonyEricsson. SE would hope the protest would fizzle. But why would we undercut ourselves like lead1, "They can't afford to keep updating old phones, or no one will buy their newer ones. Simple as that" and caifanX10, "So why just don't give up and buy Arc? SE will happy for getting your $$$ preference again"?
The kind of protest I'm talking about here is easy to do; it has motivated, dissatisfied customers steaming now; and SE can't really get around it. We are in charge; we merely need to do something.
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Click to collapse
How do you expect anyone to believe or support someone who doesn't know what he's talking about?
There will be NO mediascape in ARC
SINGLE-CORE is available in GOOGLE's FLAGSHIP, so any dual-core is just to attract people who are easy to attract with the ( 4G-dualcore ) stuff
Have you actually seen the changes made in the ARC?
2.2 is a waste of time
shonangreg said:
I have begun posting comments every time I find an article on SonyEricsson's Xperia arc advising consumers looking for phones to take into consideration SE's current history of updates for the existing Xperia X10 series which are all still under contract. If a lot of us just continue doing this, then SonyEricsson will see these comments -- and consumers will think twice about getting a SE phone when there are other choices available.
Below is what I wrote on a couple of recent articles on the Xperia arc. Please feel free to amend this to suit your purposes. Also, please improve on my attempt and post your scripts for other people to post -- and provide links to some of the high traffic sites. Because SonyEricsson really is demonstrating its commitment now, spreading these messages really does have promise to force SonyEricsson to change course -- if they want to continue selling phones!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How about you get a part time job and spend your time earning some money instead? Then you could buy what ever phone you like.
HYPER-X10 said:
How about you get a part time job and spend your time earning some money instead? Then you could buy what ever phone you like.
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The OP is offering a constructive alternative to the whining going on at xda. Here we are whining amongst ourselves. Whiners whining about the whiners. This offers an outlet for the frustrations of those let down by SE, that would reduce the whining on xda, and potentially effect SE in some way.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App