Database Users

Maybe there should be a class action lawsuit

I read on Twitter about a report that some Samsung Behold II owners are thinking of suing the manufacturer for failure to upgrade their Android phones.
I think the issue is deeper. It has to do with ALL manufacturers and phone company providers. They ALL seem to have a different view as to when to upgrade the phones even after Google provided them for free. Can you imagine if your PC's Window updates are being delayed because HP, Dell, Sony etc have decided to further customize whatever Microsoft did?
If the manufacturers and telcos are unwilling to provide updates, maybe the distribution model should be changed. In the same way that Microsoft charges for a new upgrade (Windows XP - Windows ??? - Windows 7). How about if Google charges, lets say $5 and you can upgrade via the market (cupcake - donut - Eclair - Floyo).
See this article about Samsung owners: http://androidoperatingsystem.net/2010/05/27/samsung-behold-ii-owners-consider-legal-action-over-lack-of-android-2-x-upgrade/

I agree, 'open source' isn't so open. we are locked out of what we can do with the software when the software is suppose to be free and open. I had always thought it was still odd.

The X10 is doing exactly what was advertised by Sony Ericsson. We can be angry for inexistent software updates, but the X10 was advertised with 1.6. Open source does mean nothing. SE has released the full source for the kernel, so they have fully complied to the GPL license. Absolutely no room for lawsuits IMHO.

actually its true.
they are trying to prevent advancement of the Android OS.
with all the technology ..dont tell me they cant release a goddamn update for a mobile OS.
they dont want Android competing with their other products...coz android is so much powerful

Are you high? Drunk?
Since when was truthfully advertising a product's abilities something worthy of a lawsuit?
SE advertised the phone as coming with 1.6. They also promised an update to 2.1 in Q4 2010. What is it now? Q2 2010. How in the **** is someone going to get angry that they don't release something earlier than what they said? There's absolutely no laws being broken. SE doesn't even have to update the phone! There's no legally binding agreement that says they have to or will.
Y'all need a serious reality check.
And really, what does 2.1 do that you can't do in 1.6? Even 2.2 for that matter? Because that matters so much on a cell phone. The phone may become faster, it may not. The phone is exactly as advertised on every single video, picture, and text that SE has released, so I'm not disappointed.
MOD EDIT - Removed vulgarity

There are some nice app I can't use because of not being on 2.X : pdaNet tether via bluetooth for exemple.

iead1 said:
Are you high? Drunk?
Since when was truthfully advertising a product's abilities something worthy of a lawsuit? (MOD EDIT - Vulgarity removed)
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Click to collapse
Why do you need to come to insults. Did I write anything in my original post that I wasn't happy as it is now. My opinion has to do with the way manufacturers and telcos view the OS, which is a little bit different than what Google does. Otherwise, Google would not have done what it did for 2.2, make future OS updates independent of what the manufacturer does.
From my own experience with the Rogers Magic, it took almost a revolt from the subscribers before HTC and Rogers promised an update to 2.1.
Please read the link regarding the Samsung. Sometimes, manufacturers need to be pressed to keep their promises. I have been reading about SE. While I am currently happy with the X10a, I also read that SE has a history of not fulfilling their promises (aka X1 Windows mobile updates). But that was not the point of my original post. My point is that ALL manufacturers and telcos should be held accountable for future updates, not just out of their good will, but as a requirement.
I do expect an apology from you for the insulting way you wrote your response.
[PS to moderator: Please review and decide]

so you want to sue them because they don't hold the same attitude towards Open-source software, that Google does?
I agree with iead1. calm down, nobody is obligated to provide you with a new version of an Operating system. They arent even obligated to fix bugs, unless it interferes with a feature that they clearly advertised.
MOD EDIT - Abusive language removed

I agree with the above, the phone does much more than any other phone I've ever had, it does everything better and faster.
2.1/2 would be good and I am sure they will come eventually. But I seriously don't see enough benefits from what my phone does at the moment to justify all the anger seen on this forum in the past couple of weeks.
As said above, the phone does exactly what was advertised and more.
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Sent via the XDA Tapatalk App

the new american dream - sue everything and everyone.

P
Are you high? Drunk?
Y'all need a serious reality check.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Comedy gold. I second that. Theres nothing illegal on se part. TheY ARE just behind becuse of the custom UI wich you payed for.
I just wanted root
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Sent from my X10a

arcticreaver said:
the new american dream - sue everything and everyone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes we can ...
Oh well, in fact yes you can

Eclair last major release...

Hello everyone,
This is my first posting on XDA developers thought i've been following the community for quite some time as its helped me with a lot of my other phones in the past.
Eclair is probably going to be the last major release for the Experia 10 family. Froyo was originally being considered to be released in August but unfortunately change of management that occurred several times last year and this year kept changing, ending and starting new project all over the place at SE.
Eclair has been ready for some time to be released and the past few months has been a constant battle to get people to agree to release Froyo instead of Eclair.
Long story short, Froyo is a no go and Eclair is what is being released. It is currently being pushed out to the various operators for branding.
Furthermore, future Android releases will be customized for future phones and not the X10i, X10 mini/pro

these days it is so easy to say something with out proof!!

If you believe it or not that is your own choice. I'm not making claims that SE will release anything any time soon. Rather im saying that they wont!
Which is the major difference here. The fact that I posted on here today is because I got fed up of everything that is going on in the office.
Its not that 2.2 cant be released its that they just simply wont release it.

do you work at se?
yeah like you say. it's your first post. and you speak like a se spokesperson or something lol
unless you are an insider, i don't know how you'd be able to say what you said with 100% certainty.

but we are not waiting for SE to release an update!!
we are waiting for our dev!!

yes... and yes...

Bull**** in my ass. SE will relese 2.2 in end of Q4 2010 or Q1 2011. Got it from SE in Sweden.
Sent from my X10i

HAHA...great, now we have 2 unsubstantiated claims about Froyo.

Skepticism aside, the argument as presented here makes sense. Hopefully it's a mistake or troll but anyone who's seen corporate politics up close will be all too familiar with events like these.
So if true: Thanks for the information. If it's not: Eff off you trolling low-life.
If things turn out this way it's an even bigger reason to crack the bootloader or for SE to release a warranty-voiding unlocked loader.

Well,
Seeing as I work at SE on the SE DEV team in Sweden I would like to think that the information I have is fresh off the press so to say.
The information you have with regards to 2.2 being released in Q4 maybe Q1 was the original plan yes.
But you enjoy that update when it comes out FreeKill.

Thanks ddewbofh,
I didn't expect people to be so offensive in their response when information is being given and not about an amazing even rather about an upsetting set of news.
I have more confidence in Cyanogenmod will be available to x10i rather than an official Froyo release.
In principle, you should be able to flash Froyo that is provided by google directly. There are 2 major things stopping you from doing that.
1. The phones that the public has are flagged as "Red" for retail phones and the dev phones are flagged as brown... please don't ask why those colors.
This means that even if I were to get a phone from one of the stores take it back into the office and try to flash it with our own tools then it wont work.
2. The modem software that is provided by the general release from Google does not work on the x10i phones.
However, once the bootloader is cracked you can always grab the modem package from a dump and included to the general release.

so, do you have a access to engineering bootloader?

Well, needless to say if you were to leak a copy of your tools we could get it working given a little time
Just out of interest you say "flagged" is that a software or hardware flag?

So since its already ready so to speak...
Im sure a copy leaked underground wont hurt anyone ...
edit:
I know about the colours... dont you have a tool to change the certificates from retail to dev?
Also there must be a modem tool out there that you know of that could possible work...

Well, it's going to be SE's choice.
If their corporate bull**** is going to screw their customers, they will move on. Hell, I know at least 5 persons who sold their X10 for a shiny new SGS, even when the X10's hardware is far superior than the SGS (Not talking about actual performance, but overall hardware obviously)
It would be a pitty, really. For the people like me who live in a country where your only option is to use an unlocked phone, because our carriers do not have a different kind of option, the X10 is the best Android handset in the market for the right price.
Sure, the SGS has better hardware performance, but it also cost almost twice as much as the X10 around here... and the other HTC stuff can't compete with the X10 as a whole package (Camera, picture quality, LCD, media player, sound quality)
I don't know why is so hard for SE to excel. To let their customers, and the other manufacturers know that the brand is best of the best. That they are going to give their product the best it can handle, until it can't handle it anymore (Like Gingerbread, for example) like HTC does. Shame that I don't like HTC handsets, the build quality is crap, the camera and sound quality are even worse... they only work as a cell phone, not as a whole multimedia package, like the X10.
If this is real, then the X10 will be my last SE phone. I stopped using them after ALL their phones became crap after the glorious w810i. This is my first SE phone in 4 years after having SE phones only, and would be my last if they let me down again.

I agree. You're potentially lost you're job anyway.
You might aswell hand over the goods. You, as a dev, woulda understand that Android is meant to be open source; Therefor you should have no quams in providing a more positive outlook on a product you have worked hard on.
Or just throw it all into that other ugly phone. Just sayin'
Sent from my X10i using Tapatalk
EDIT: Just out of curiosity, you say you have been watching this forum did a while. What was the general consensus when you informed your team the X10 was rooted? I'm merely curious as to your stand point on locking the phone down so much.

SELeak, if this information is true and our only hope for Froyo/Gingerbread is through cracking the bootloader, how about some more "insider information" on how we could get this done? If you really wanna help the community, help us get through Sony's "let's protect everything because we're paranoid" bootloader.

first of, big thanks to SELeak for sharing his info
i think if you were to share more in-depth info about the bootloader etc, you should contact the team that made the root for x10 possible, if you are willing, contact me on PM, i will give you the info how to get in direct contact with somebody from the team, if they have't contacted you already
best regards

Your title might also be taken as misleading, as Froyo is not a "major release" per say. Version 2.1 to 2.2 is a minor release in my book.
SELeak said:
Hello everyone,
This is my first posting on XDA developers thought i've been following the community for quite some time as its helped me with a lot of my other phones in the past.
Eclair is probably going to be the last major release for the Experia 10 family. Froyo was originally being considered to be released in August but unfortunately change of management that occurred several times last year and this year kept changing, ending and starting new project all over the place at SE.
Eclair has been ready for some time to be released and the past few months has been a constant battle to get people to agree to release Froyo instead of Eclair.
Long story short, Froyo is a no go and Eclair is what is being released. It is currently being pushed out to the various operators for branding.
Furthermore, future Android releases will be customized for future phones and not the X10i, X10 mini/pro
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

karendar said:
SELeak, if this information is true and our only hope for Froyo/Gingerbread is through cracking the bootloader, how about some more "insider information" on how we could get this done? If you really wanna help the community, help us get through Sony's "let's protect everything because we're paranoid" bootloader.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+10
SELeak, if you do in fact work for SE development, the community here would very much appreciate any assistance you could give in helping to crack the bootloader.
However, as it stands this thread really doesn't belong in the Android Development forum, as it isn't directly contributing to Android development on the X10.

An interesting observation - SE using cat-string theory as its main business practice

i am a business management student...so i thought of sharing my perspective over how Sony Ericsson is playing the smartphone game...
by exagerrating a lot before the product launch ...and after the launch..giving small doses of updates so customers dont change phone in the hope of getting new features.
think of it..
they build great hype for a product months before the launch by strong advertising (probably spending more on ads than R&D itself) , promising a revolutionary interface with ground breaking custom interfaces....X panels for X1 (remember?) and timescape/mediascape (biggest garbage) for X10 ..both over-ambitious
just so they can differentiate from other companies..
ya they have great product design.. which initially attracts impulse buyers...they build anticipation...so we cant wait to get our hands on their phone!
and then they finally launch the product which will NEVER have the latest updates because their entire focus was on marketing the product i.e bringing it to market before competition and capturing market share.
they never really focussed on industry shaking R&D like Apple..c'mon without Apple, touchscreen was a dead market.
and without Android...Apple had a monopoly.
This is revolution....not timescape or mediascape..which are my least favourite apps...battery sucking with extremely slow response rates.
then they ll keep launching small small updates over couple of months...more like over a year...adding little features..so we dont change brand loyalty....giving the wounded customers a faint vision of hope...
finally they release a small update and the entire community goes 'wow' with excitement...like a virgin getting his first blowjob.
by that time..the phone has suffered scratches, has started showing signs of wear..which means very low re-sale value.
and meanwhile announcement for newer model is made...slimmer, sexier with more bugs which will be fixed via update over the next upcoming year.
good strategy for a short-term profit making....but they are losing brand loyalty.
i am not gonna buy SE Xperia Arc...ya its the sexiest phone on the market.
but its like a hot model u bang and can never have a healthy relationship with...coz she is dumb and full of flaws on the inside...such as daddy issues etc.
/rant
its like they keep us jumping over small small updates like a cat does to a string which the master will never let it catch.

but its like a hot model u bang and can never have a healthy relationship with...coz she is dumb and full of flaws on the inside...such as daddy issues etc.
epic comment
well it's true and from your perspective which one is better?
i know getting a big income is the main focus of any company but hey customers loyalty also counts. it's something i hate from sony in general, they keep pushing new tech every year and let the customer to feel outdated

Epic thread.
Sent from my GT-P1000 using XDA App

Couldn't have said it better myself, spot on mate!
Swyped from my ZDZ Froyo X10i

bang on, while i am happy with my x10 as it was my first droid comming from a long **** list of wm devices, i am also not going to be sticking with se, already contemplating the droid 2 global, yes se makes sexy phones but, im looking for something a little more with my next device.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App

Funny thread
so what do you think about HTC's strategy with Desire ( Desire/HD/Z )
Just because they released a better handset after a year of the previous handset's release it doesn't mean that they do not care about brand loyalty...
so what? you want them to stick with the X10 for two years while other competitors advance with technology????
believe it or not, many will buy the ARC, even more that who bought the X10...
Next time, go buy an HTC or Motorola
and by the way, Samsung is locking their bootloader so do not buy a Samsung android so you won't end up whining like many here about unlocking it, unless you like samsung
but despite all that, I would like to thank you for the effort made by you to explain what many of us are not aware of.. it's a good practice for your uni
good luck mate with your studies

Nocturnal310 said:
i am a business management student...so i thought of sharing my perspective over how Sony Ericsson is playing the smartphone game...
by exagerrating a lot before the product launch ...and after the launch..giving small doses of updates so customers dont change phone in the hope of getting new features.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I wish you luck with the business management, since your management of the English language makes me want to punch babies in the stomach.
Also, replace "Sony Ericsson" with every technology company ever and you have a point.
/thread

iead1 said:
Well, I wish you luck with the business management, since your management of the English language makes me want to punch babies in the stomach.
Also, replace "Sony Ericsson" with every technology company ever and you have a point.
/thread
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Click to collapse
Grammar and syntax of the English language is not the point of XDA in MHO...
Very well written, kudos to you Nocturnal310...

@Nocturnal310:
Of course you're right. But as someone said before, you could say this about any company producing technical stuff and you would be right as well. (I expect some very negative comments on what I'm about to say...). I understand your point, but I just don't think that SE is somehow different in their approach from any other company producing consumer goods (is that right? stuff which are bought in great numbers just to be replaced by newer models...you know, we have to watch out for our English, right iead1? ). Thats quite important because we just can't expect infinite support for our product, because sooner or later (the former is more probable) it will get replaced with brand new model with brand new stuff inside making it lot more attractive. The only thing we can complain about is, that the support may have last longer... thats true. But despite all of that, I'm still not changing the brand loyalty as I just dont know what else should I buy next time. I dont like Apple and their iStuff, also don't like HTCs because of how they look. Samsung is an option, but if I should choose between Samsung and SE just by looking at the phones, SE would definitely win (and with Samsung locking their bootloaders as well, I wouldn't help myself much by buying it). You may call me a hardcore fan of SE who doesn't think about what he's buying, but thats not me. I just think that X10 was an unfortunate mistake (which I personally still love!) of SE and I really hope they will learn from it for the reasons mentioned above.
Thats my opinion and I do not force anyone to share it, but I wanted to say it, because I just don't uderstand all that poeople saying how betrayed they feel by SE.

i think SE`s problem is that they don`t really know what they do,at least so far.
they use UIQ for a while then they leave it.
they use win mo,but after x1 and x2 they desided to go for android.
but now Android is very good platform and they should find their way.i hope so.
their main mistake is that they don`t care about customers and the weak points of their products.

I must add my mustard ...
There was a time long ago, Sony Ericsson created really nice phones with a solid build quality. My x10 is 3 weeks old and is making crazy noises when twisted a bit. The whole frame is not stiff enough.
If I saw it right on arc video presentations at youtube, the crappy timescape is now a widget and it is still choppy. This uggly blue is still there. Why blue? SE colors are Green and Orange. What a bunch of stupid designers ... I think w'll have a lot of alternatives out there with lesser crappy UI-Mods.

Well, I agree with most of your points, but let's remember: they're not ceasing support, they're launching a new model and planningto lock x10 customers in outdated Android. Motorola intended to do that too, but customers did such a big buzz that they changed their minds. The bull**** about low performance on Android 2.2 is already discarded, we can see that on all the unofficially built ROMs available at xda-forums. I risk to say that even Google has his part on this entire drama. Obviously, Sony Ericsson and their UXP loaded with much more processing hunger than x10 can support is the one we should blame, because we chose to buy SE, not Google devices (which are HTC, actually ). The removal of MediaScape from Arc tells us that they know where the problem is. Let's hope they fix this "problem" on x10 too.
I truly hope no one takes my comments personally, since I'm just expressing my opinion as a SE consumer. I still like them, but not how they use my money.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App

Apple Iphone 3G is still getting latest updates - same day as the latest iPhone 4, not ALL the features because it's got old hardware but there aware of that.
SE should be aware of it to, yes x10 can run 2.1 2.2, 2.3 ect so they should. There opinion is why there not updating. (why not the majority, the users decide)
Why can't we get hardware based updates? HTC magic/hero got tons of updates..
Yes new models will come out, but it's the same OS to update, not that much off a difference, our devs do there work in spare time and takes 2-3 weeks to come up with ASOP OS, (which is what i prefer anyway). Imagine an entire DEV team full time? yes it takes more time for testing ect but still.....
At least SE have reconized they F'd up. that's the first step!

robbyf66 said:
At least SE have reconized they F'd up. that's the first step!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They say a lot. Saying and doing are not the same.

moacyrfilho said:
The removal of MediaScape from Arc tells us that they know where the problem is. Let's hope they fix this "problem" on x10 too.
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Click to collapse
I think they removed the mediascape app because it was so hard to new people to find the music player and photo gallery.
just think about it:
you have a new phone, and you would like to play some music, you first go to the music player but you can't find it because there is no music icon on the menu
Grab a samsung phone and try to play some music, the player is called "Music", the video player is "Videos" and the gallery is "Gallery"

robbyf66 said:
Apple Iphone 3G is still getting latest updates - same day as the latest iPhone 4, not ALL the features because it's got old hardware but there aware of that.
SE should be aware of it to, yes x10 can run 2.1 2.2, 2.3 ect so they should. There opinion is why there not updating. (why not the majority, the users decide)
Why can't we get hardware based updates? HTC magic/hero got tons of updates..
Yes new models will come out, but it's the same OS to update, not that much off a difference, our devs do there work in spare time and takes 2-3 weeks to come up with ASOP OS, (which is what i prefer anyway). Imagine an entire DEV team full time? yes it takes more time for testing ect but still.....
At least SE have reconized they F'd up. that's the first step!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are comparing with 2 companies with different calibers.
Apple - every designer/ad agency/design house/design school in this world purchase their 'godly' machines for work purposes. And these macs don't come cheap, mind you. With that amount of revenue, they can afford to create an iPhone, using their 'lagless' (yeah, right) macintosh reputations to breed a colony of iZombies to support their cause.
With the iZombies having the need to own a iAmagodlyproduct, with such supporters pumping money into their pockets, they can afford to offset any losses by being nice to
Update old iPhones even if new models are out, cos they know iZombies are already impressed with them playing the nice card and that they are confident that with their good reputation and a better new phone out, A majority of iZombies who have too much money to spare will still buy it. They are just giving an aww-I understand-you-can't-afford-a-new-phone-yet-so-I-will-update-you-periodically-so-that-you-will-come-back-to-me-when-you-have-money message to the poorer parties.
Now for Sony Ericsson (or just insert any other brand names). Let me ask you. Though they are an established brand, but let me ask you, how many people will own 1 of those expensive TVs or VAIOS? Comparing with Apple, no competition.
They don't have that much extra revenue to play nice. They can only strategize and try to earn as such as possible before their products become obsolete.
It's just like people like Donald Trump, who has so much money to play with, he can just give away to some random person on the street if he wants to. But if you try doing up a business yourself, would you give away your money to charity organizations, knowing that you cannot afford to spend the money that way? Most probably not. Unless you don't mind closing down your business due to losses.

All these threads are getting sooooooo repetitive!!! There should be one big sticky for anyone who wants to ***** and complain in any way shape and form about SE. That way this form isn't flooded with every thread turning into a SE bashing thread. It really is getting tiring logging on to see what's new and the first 50 threads are people *****in about SE.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App

Lonelee - agree with much of what you say.. but it is also true that there are many many many people who go back time and time again to buy the next apple product BECAUSE they know that Apple will not leave the OS lagging behind on the old device when a new one comes out.. it's spectacularly good brand loyalty. SE (and many other) are taking a very short term view, and a missing a great opportunity to get us all on the hook for the next product..
In the UK for example, many phones bought on contract are free with a 2 yr contract tie in.. so if I know that they will look after me for 2 years, then I'll go back for more.. my contract's not due until Feb 2012.. so I'm eagerly awaiting to see their behaviour over the next 12 months!

well I m back on XDA after exiting from blackberry platform...blackberry provided me a stable messaging device for a while but as needs changed, it was very poor for browsing and getting work with attachments done.
i was at a party few weeks ago and my friend took out his Xperia Z claiming this is the best camera phone.
to his disappointment, it was the darkest blurriest pic i have seen whereas my lumia 920 took a pic with DSLR-like clarity and image characteristics.
i am not sure how much sony has improved but seems like they are still a market follower and using marketing dollars to brag about their phones that do not perform as advertised.
after having wasted my student savings on 2 of their phones, I regret and wish I had bought a better phone for my first android experience.

product lifecycle
Hi,
I am not sure if I should blame any company for moving to newer (and maybe better) products. In the android phone market we have the nearly unique situation to be able to get our hands and minds at the software which is driving the product, at least partly.
This is quite different from cars or coffeemakers.
What I would like to from Sony is that when they decide to abandon a product (eg X10), they open up the sources of drivers etc, so that interested people can maintain their products for themselves.
I can understand that they wont open up the sources for current products.
A.

effective strategy to get X10 updates to 2.2, 2.3, & beyond

I have begun posting comments every time I find an article on SonyEricsson's Xperia arc advising consumers looking for phones to take into consideration SE's current history of updates for the existing Xperia X10 series which are all still under contract. If a lot of us just continue doing this, then SonyEricsson will see these comments -- and consumers will think twice about getting a SE phone when there are other choices available.
Below is what I wrote on a couple of recent articles on the Xperia arc. Please feel free to amend this to suit your purposes. Also, please improve on my attempt and post your scripts for other people to post -- and provide links to some of the high traffic sites. Because SonyEricsson really is demonstrating its commitment now, spreading these messages really does have promise to force SonyEricsson to change course -- if they want to continue selling phones!
With contracts being typically 2 years, SonyEricsson's decision to abandon updates to the Xperia X10 series in less than one year is disgraceful, especially with the benefits of 2.2 (adobe flash, install to SD, processor optimizations, etc.).
And with SonyEricsson demonstrating this attitude with the existing, high-performance Xperia X10 series (which is more than capable of running 2.2, 2.3, and later), why would anyone trust them to do any different on the new Xperia arc?
The meaning of SonyEricsson's choices now are obvious to informed consumers: if you want to get the improvements to your phone that come from new versions of android, avoid SonyEricsson. HTC and others have a *much better* track record for providing updates to their customers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

omg, people are tired of this ****.
/Close thread please.

Are you braindead enough to think that SE doesn't know we would like newer Android versions?
They're a business, not a charity. They can't afford to keep updating old phones, or no one will buy their newer ones. Simple as that.

If we just sit here and take it, then SE will be content to dish it out. If, otoh, we even appear to be able to dissuade new customers from going with SE, then they will support us because it is in SE's interest.
That. is. simple.

Better get to work then. Samsung ain't doing so hot with updates either. HTC has stopped with their older phones as well. Motorola has ignored a lot of its non-Verizon Droids.
What's left? The iPhone?

iead1 said:
Better get to work then. Samsung ain't doing so hot with updates either. HTC has stopped with their older phones as well. Motorola has ignored a lot of its non-Verizon Droids.
What's left? The iPhone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pretty much this. I'm all for complaining, but if you want up-to-date software, you have two choices: iphone or nexus.
I don't think that it's wasted effort to complain. How else would companies know how to service their customers better? Personally, I've given up on pretty much every manufacturer. As much as I hate apple, I'm pretty tempted to get an iphone if they were compatible with T-mobile's 3g just for the continued support because I'm not super happy with the design of the nexus line.

i try to do this in many facebook post under SE`s pages.
it better than nothing

Great another idiotic thread.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App

iead1 said:
Are you braindead enough to think that SE doesn't know we would like newer Android versions?
They're a business, not a charity. They can't afford to keep updating old phones, or no one will buy their newer ones. Simple as that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Old phone?
It was launched in March 2010.

the funniest thing about these threads are the people that go on to say... "Great another idiotic thread"
or
"Are you braindead enough to think that SE doesn't know we would like newer Android versions? They're a business, not a charity. They can't afford to keep updating old phones, or no one will buy their newer ones. Simple as that."
If you really think these things are that stupid, why do you even bother clicking on them when it clearly states what the thread is about... in this case anyway. Are you guys really that big of losers in life that you can't go by on the internet without clicking every single thread or do you just have that much time on your hands?
Either way i am sure some of us have come to a conclusion as to who the actual "idiot" or "braindead" is.
Oh and may i suggest some charity work if you have too much time on your hands?

Not a bad intention, but all these efforts are useless to "fight" against this. SE won't do things in the way people want. None of the other companies either will.
So why just don't give up and buy Arc? SE will happy for getting your $$$ preference again, and you'll be happy too 'cause you'll be in the top of the trend and with a phone with Gingerbread, the newest Android version. END.
***
Seriously, this has been discussed enough already.

I agree the entitlement generation needs to stop crying. However, threads like this one offer a solution to the problem, which I would support. Freedom of speech has been effective in creating change all over the world and throughout history. You cant change anything if you don't try. Those of you who post to close this thread are doing the same thing, just counterproductive.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App

just why bother? if they did (for whatever reason) decide to release a SE 2.2 or above, it would be so full of bloatware that any benefit would be gone anyway. ive been running zdzihu's 2.2 froyo ROM for ages on mine, and there is a 2.3 gingerbread ROM that Jerpelea has made out even. Yes they are beta, or even alpha, but even if SE said yep we are doing it, they would take another 6 months to get it out - dont you think the custom 2.2, 2.3 would be just about perfect by then?
support the DEVS, not the global companies
stuff SE - i hate there roms anyway!

iead1 said:
Better get to work then. Samsung ain't doing so hot with updates either. HTC has stopped with their older phones as well. Motorola has ignored a lot of its non-Verizon Droids.
What's left? The iPhone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
define old phones
if you say a 3 years old phone ok then it's ok not a phone with less thn 1 year of life span

alankstiyo said:
define old phones
if you say a 3 years old phone ok then it's ok not a phone with less thn 1 year of life span
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This device is good. It's freakin sexy. It's capable of running Froyo and Gingerbread. Until the new SE devices come out, this is their flagship phone.
I repeat, this phone is sexy, even next to the Arc, it still looks sexy and relevant. The innards are still relevant.
I don't understand why it's being treated like the SE bastard child.

We're in the driver's seat. Why not grab the wheel?
violentgoomba said:
I don't understand why it's being treated like the SE bastard child.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because SonyEricsson is gambling they can get away with it.
The mass of users typically just complain to each other after they've already got the device and seen its limitations. "I'll never buy another one of their products!" But that is where it ends. Flashy ads for new products can overcome that kind of friction from scattered individuals.
But SonyEricsson needs good press to sell their new phones, and if the current users of SE phones are telling everyone in the venues promoting the new phones how SE is refusing to update what they have now, potential customers will be turned away.
Maybe this hasn't happened before because there was no android OS to make this all so transparent. Now it is easy for everyone to understand. New customers and old all speak the same language: android! If SE has current devices that are technically capable and they aren't keeping them up to date, why would they do so with their next device? They won't. The arc still has the Timescape and Mediascape cruft that is making the updates so hard; that hasn't changed. And the arc is going to have a single-core processor when the competitors will be pushing out phones with dual-cores. SE will predictably move from the arc as soon as they can and shift all their focus to the next phone. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.
SE is in a pattern of peddling near non-update-able phones. We just have to say that often enough, and they will change -- period.
And with the limited number of high-volume review sites, just one person would make a difference. A dozen or so posting thoughtful messages would be able to keep the issue visible on all the top-tier sites. A few hundred customers searching and posting just a few times a week each would keep the issue front and center on virtually every site of importance to SonyEricsson. SE would hope the protest would fizzle. But why would we undercut ourselves like lead1, "They can't afford to keep updating old phones, or no one will buy their newer ones. Simple as that" and caifanX10, "So why just don't give up and buy Arc? SE will happy for getting your $$$ preference again"?
The kind of protest I'm talking about here is easy to do; it has motivated, dissatisfied customers steaming now; and SE can't really get around it. We are in charge; we merely need to do something.

this is a young phone (less than a year old) with old software (more than a year old OS)
I agree with the Update, some products are still on support after several years on the market, the idea of support is to patch the vulnerabilities and improve the overall performance. If SE can do it with available Android OS why not?

shonangreg said:
Because SonyEricsson is gambling they can get away with it.
The mass of users typically just complain to each other after they've already got the device and seen its limitations. "I'll never buy another one of their products!" But that is where it ends. Flashy ads for new products can overcome that kind of friction from scattered individuals.
But SonyEricsson needs good press to sell their new phones, and if the current users of SE phones are telling everyone in the venues promoting the new phones how SE is refusing to update what they have now, potential customers will be turned away.
Maybe this hasn't happened before because there was no android OS to make this all so transparent. Now it is easy for everyone to understand. New customers and old all speak the same language: android! If SE has current devices that are technically capable and they aren't keeping them up to date, why would they do so with their next device? They won't. The arc still has the Timescape and Mediascape cruft that is making the updates so hard; that hasn't changed. And the arc is going to have a single-core processor when the competitors will be pushing out phones with dual-cores. SE will predictably move from the arc as soon as they can and shift all their focus to the next phone. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.
SE is in a pattern of peddling near non-update-able phones. We just have to say that often enough, and they will change -- period.
And with the limited number of high-volume review sites, just one person would make a difference. A dozen or so posting thoughtful messages would be able to keep the issue visible on all the top-tier sites. A few hundred customers searching and posting just a few times a week each would keep the issue front and center on virtually every site of importance to SonyEricsson. SE would hope the protest would fizzle. But why would we undercut ourselves like lead1, "They can't afford to keep updating old phones, or no one will buy their newer ones. Simple as that" and caifanX10, "So why just don't give up and buy Arc? SE will happy for getting your $$$ preference again"?
The kind of protest I'm talking about here is easy to do; it has motivated, dissatisfied customers steaming now; and SE can't really get around it. We are in charge; we merely need to do something.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How do you expect anyone to believe or support someone who doesn't know what he's talking about?
There will be NO mediascape in ARC
SINGLE-CORE is available in GOOGLE's FLAGSHIP, so any dual-core is just to attract people who are easy to attract with the ( 4G-dualcore ) stuff
Have you actually seen the changes made in the ARC?
2.2 is a waste of time

shonangreg said:
I have begun posting comments every time I find an article on SonyEricsson's Xperia arc advising consumers looking for phones to take into consideration SE's current history of updates for the existing Xperia X10 series which are all still under contract. If a lot of us just continue doing this, then SonyEricsson will see these comments -- and consumers will think twice about getting a SE phone when there are other choices available.
Below is what I wrote on a couple of recent articles on the Xperia arc. Please feel free to amend this to suit your purposes. Also, please improve on my attempt and post your scripts for other people to post -- and provide links to some of the high traffic sites. Because SonyEricsson really is demonstrating its commitment now, spreading these messages really does have promise to force SonyEricsson to change course -- if they want to continue selling phones!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How about you get a part time job and spend your time earning some money instead? Then you could buy what ever phone you like.

HYPER-X10 said:
How about you get a part time job and spend your time earning some money instead? Then you could buy what ever phone you like.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The OP is offering a constructive alternative to the whining going on at xda. Here we are whining amongst ourselves. Whiners whining about the whiners. This offers an outlet for the frustrations of those let down by SE, that would reduce the whining on xda, and potentially effect SE in some way.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App

Anyone else finds the hipocrisy of SE intresting?

Well, now that we've gotten 2.3 which is nice and all.
It's wellmade and all... But one thing strikes me as.. quite odd...
Remember when 2.2 roms was beginning to pop up and how people showed to SE
that hey, 2.2 WAS possible and it ran much better than their 2.1, despite their claim that it wouldnt... And SE's answer was that we wernt REALLY running Froyo, we were just using Froyo system, backported to the Eclair kernel... Now with 2.3 released. SE is doing the same? Yet now, when they do it, it's actually Gingerbread? Or have I missed something major? Im not in any way unhappy about SE releasing 2.3, dont get me wrong here.. Just finding it quite odd how a company like SE can claim it's not really froyo when XDA devs do it.. And then turn around, do it themself and claim that now it's real.

Essentially SE have proved that they excel at talking out of their own anus and wouldn't know honesty if it punched them in the face.

I was thinking exactly the same thing yesterday.
But I've been thinking for a while that SE talk out of their ass Cox when rikard said about 16m colours not being implemented coz of "too much redevelopment" which is bull coz they were developing a new os anyway but hey what can we do?
Sent from my X10i using XDA App

Unfortunately there's not much we can do.
Sony probably thought that if they delay 2.3 people will jump to Arc and the rest, but realized that since many people had the X10 - they needed to save the face and act like they were in trouble.
However, the phones are not extraordinary - I find Arc buttons unappealing (1mm below and they would have been pointing down, hard for my big fingers to reach them). The others are big and clunky..
HTC is no better, you have 7 buttons to press at the bottom, 4 virtual on the phone case, 3 software on top. I have colleagues which own HTC phones for half an year and more, and they still get confused what to press when they want to show something on the phone.
Samsung and the blunder with S2 screens (yellow patch, or either too yellow color temperature) or with the battery heating etc.
Android itself is not a mature OS (I mean is stable), but after having Symbian, Windows and Android, Android gives me the impression that you have to work a lot around the software so that you can get cool things done (or nice integrations). On WM6 it showed the weather if you wanted to make an appointment - so that you know. People like it because they believe its free, but it comes with a price, you give valuable information to Google about your habits and they can sell it for much money probably that you get by having some nice apps.
And so on.
I wish Leica would build mobile phones

viulian said:
Unfortunately there's not much we can do.
Sony probably thought that if they delay 2.3 people will jump to Arc and the rest, but realized that since many people had the X10 - they needed to save the face and act like they were in trouble.
However, the phones are not extraordinary - I find Arc buttons unappealing (1mm below and they would have been pointing down, hard for my big fingers to reach them). The others are big and clunky..
HTC is no better, you have 7 buttons to press at the bottom, 4 virtual on the phone case, 3 software on top. I have colleagues which own HTC phones for half an year and more, and they still get confused what to press when they want to show something on the phone.
Samsung and the blunder with S2 screens (yellow patch, or either too yellow color temperature) or with the battery heating etc.
Android itself is not a mature OS (I mean is stable), but after having Symbian, Windows and Android, Android gives me the impression that you have to work a lot around the software so that you can get cool things done (or nice integrations). On WM6 it showed the weather if you wanted to make an appointment - so that you know. People like it because they believe its free, but it comes with a price, you give valuable information to Google about your habits and they can sell it for much money probably that you get by having some nice apps.
And so on.
I wish Leica would build mobile phones
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been thinking about my privacy since Google is known for stealing their users info. And yeah, Android is far from complete, rapid development shows it all.

I wondered why it ran like ****, and I knew it was too good to be true that SE would finally unleash the full potential of the X10.
I've had my X10 for 15 months now, and only 9 months to go until my contract ends. It will be the last SE phone I ever get, and I repeatedly tell anybody who asks to avoid SE phones like the plague.

@OP:
It was possible for SE because they patched the old kernel to work with GB. If you can see the kernel version that is only possible for SE since they might have modified since they have Bootloader access. We would have got much better phones only if BL was unlocked. I.e We could have changed Kernel versions.
For SE possibilities are endless because the have all the sources and they havent released it
viulian said:
Unfortunately there's not much we can do.
Sony probably thought that if they delay 2.3 people will jump to Arc and the rest, but realized that since many people had the X10 - they needed to save the face and act like they were in trouble.
However, the phones are not extraordinary - I find Arc buttons unappealing (1mm below and they would have been pointing down, hard for my big fingers to reach them). The others are big and clunky..
HTC is no better, you have 7 buttons to press at the bottom, 4 virtual on the phone case, 3 software on top. I have colleagues which own HTC phones for half an year and more, and they still get confused what to press when they want to show something on the phone.
Samsung and the blunder with S2 screens (yellow patch, or either too yellow color temperature) or with the battery heating etc.
Android itself is not a mature OS (I mean is stable), but after having Symbian, Windows and Android, Android gives me the impression that you have to work a lot around the software so that you can get cool things done (or nice integrations). On WM6 it showed the weather if you wanted to make an appointment - so that you know. People like it because they believe its free, but it comes with a price, you give valuable information to Google about your habits and they can sell it for much money probably that you get by having some nice apps.
And so on.
I wish Leica would build mobile phones
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I lold at your comment for a while.
If you don't like ARC, that's your choice but what does a hardware button has to do with android OS?
Android itself is not a mature OS (I mean is stable), but after having Symbian, Windows and Android, Android gives me the impression that you have to work a lot around the software so that you can get cool things done (or nice integrations). On WM6 it showed the weather if you wanted to make an appointment - so that you know. People like it because they believe its free, but it comes with a price, you give valuable information to Google about your habits and they can sell it for much money probably that you get by having some nice apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OMG. Really?
I've used every OS out there,Android,Symbian,iOS,Bada OS and even OS that runs with Java support and I call you. Android is the best OS we have now.
Did you say android ain't stable? You joking right? If you use right tweaks and correct adjustments you'll see where android takes you. android has the best customizations ever. If you use something like iOS you'll see you're limited in resources like ex: overclocking which can be done on android.
WM6 is one of the crappiest OS's Ive seen. (HTC HD2) and I gotta tell you it has got nothing. No innovation nor whatsoever. Heck it does not even have Real Multi tasking (It's been implemented in orange lol).
Android currently the major and the top OS's out there and if you say it's not good either you need to check your mobile (for hardware problems) or you must be an iOS fanboy
No disrespect meant but this was my honest review.

Neo said:
@OP:
It was possible for SE because they patched the old kernel to work with GB. If you can see the kernel version that is only possible for SE since they might have modified since they have Bootloader access. We would have got much better phones only if BL was unlocked. I.e We could have changed Kernel versions.
For SE possibilities are endless because the have all the sources and they havent released it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Since SE have the codes for the bootloader, they can release using any kernel they wished really... That wasnt the point though... The diffrence in the kernelversions between the two is quite minimal anyway... But I do find it intresting that SE was saying how we wernt at all running Froyo then, yet now are saying they've released Gingerbread... One or the other cannot possibly be true... Either this isnt truly Gingerbread, or we were truly running Froyo (and gingerbread) before this and not just backported parts of those. Personally, I dont really care which as Im less intrested in questions of "what is this" and more intrested in "what can this do?", and as it stands, SEs gingerbread, offers alot that XDAs devs have not been able to do yet, such as a fully working camera with the gingerbread system. Makes me wonder though... Do SE spokespeople even remember what they've said about the custom roms? Or are they simply hoping that users wouldnt notice? :/

The problem is that different people make decisions and different people are communicating them. PR people chose bad arguments because they were not expecting something will change in the future.
In business everything is about managing resources. SE were always perfectionists regarding releasing firmwares. Their firmwares are most stable in the business. There are usually only a few bugs that get fixed most of the time. Issues that SE had not fixed to date are probably hardware related. 3G battery drain and low in-call volume most probably depend on drivers, phone chips and operator hardware interactions as not everyone is experiencing them.
With such an approach SE devs are very slow compared to devs here at XDA. They also have more phones to manage at the same time so their management has to prioritize their time. This concludes into decisions that some functions can't be worked on the phones that are not the core of SE business anymore.
As most customers would not understand real reasons PR people have to choose more acceptable arguments to serve them. PR team should have chosen more bullet-proof arguments in the early X10 days. There has been a change in recent communication though.
Lately SE has been very open about the reasons for the company decisions on X10. It is just not 100% effective as usual customer do not care for the company. Customers have just their own needs and expectations. That is natural.
SE found ingenious solution for this problem. They worked on bootloader unlocking possibility for their new phone range so community devs have better access to the phone hardware. This way the community would do what they do not have time to do.
On X10 unlocking bootloader is unfortunately not possible because SE are using licenses that are binding them to protect some parts of the phone. 2011 phones were built with this option in mind hence it is possible there.
Disclaimer: I do not work for SE. I am part of a damage control team at telecommunications company and coordinating communication between our partners, suppliers and customers is my everyday job.

They don't talk nonsense, it was just a deliberate attempt to mislead. Something they have quite a reputation for.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App

i think Dante-fu has pretty much hit the nail on the head. the people who make the press statements arent the people who make the firmware and updates. they dont have a dozen guys in white coats working tirelessly on one single rom and then leaving the lab to make an update based on their progress. theyve got 1000s of roms and updates to make, with sometimes a 100 versions per model of phone.. a seperate department is responsible for press releases based on their progress.
i just dont think its as cut and dry as saying.. sony said this and now theyre liars. theyre not one person, its bad enough with the small company im with, people talking about stuff they dont know or being contradicted by new facts they werent aware of. sony are 10000 times bigger and worldwide. maybe they where just plain wrong the first time and XDA showed them how to do somethign they didnt think they could do. wouldnt be the first time. they should follow samsungs lead (when they sent out the galaxy 2 to cyanogenmod) and send a few models to people on xda to play with. i reckon they could get a lot of bugs and upgrades sorted quicker by putting out a bounty to the worldwide community. would save them a lot of money in the long run lol.

zodiac100 said:
They don't talk nonsense, it was just a deliberate attempt to mislead. Something they have quite a reputation for.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
doing a little mind-reading on the side?

in the end SE gave us what we want 2.3.3. so they respect customers and we should be thankfull cause they're not forced to.. and talking about the hardware .maybe samsung or htc or even Iphone is better in specs . but the build quality of SE is awesome. that's why i'm a SE fan . btw i used smartphones since I-mate and O2

Neo said:
@OP:
I've used every OS out there,Android,Symbian,iOS,Bada OS and even OS that runs with Java support and I call you. Android is the best OS we have now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No way I'm an Apple fan boy . I've never bought Apple things in my life.
However, about Android - I sure hope you have tried programming all the OS that you mention - I tried both Symbian (standard C++) as well as Qt, Windows Mobile and Android (check my signature). Among all, Android is weird within (maybe towards the users it might look ok, but users don't care).
Objects that disappear (think broadcastreceivers) ? Activities restarted on screen rotate ? It's Java, but it acts weird - you receive objects, but not those that you believe. Also, memory management in Android is like every girl's reality strike - aggressive doesn't mean good.
In Windows mobile at least you had the plain old canvas, your objects that you left there from last run, etc. The problem was that the hardware they chosen was bad and slow - Android is fast, but I think it will struggle in the future - and they just allowed segmentation, different .apks for different type of devices - the J2ME way .... We'll see.

Guys be happy, you got your update! Now enjoy it.

Well, at least SE did something,
This phone is still much batter than so many others.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App

dante-fu said:
On X10 unlocking bootloader is unfortunately not possible because SE are using licenses that are binding them to protect some parts of the phone. 2011 phones were built with this option in mind hence it is possible there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with most of what you said... But this part, simply makes no sense... Look.
Prior to android entering the market, SE was one of the biggest players on the market. When android was released, companies that had been quite small in the phone area, was suddenly rising, but by comparison, still smaller. By the time SE released their X10 series, SE was still, one of the major players on the market. Now, minor players, managed to release phones, without locked bootloaders, without a problem, but SE does? Now, do tell me which friggin fantasy world you're living in, where SE as one of the biggest players on the market, have LESS power over the telcos, than tiny newcomers? In the real world, things like that simply dont happen. SE could have had an unlocked bootloader had they wanted to. They dont but that's fine IMO... It was well known that it was locked when it was released and so on. As I've said all along, I just find this hipocrisy to be intresting... Not wrong exactly, just intresting.

I believe that even before X10 was finished - they probably had the other ongoing projects that were meant to catch up with the competition:
a) developers were moved to those new projects leaving X10 unattended
b) hopes were that they will convince people that X10 is good enough by the time they put Play / Arc out, etc.
But unfortunately, the market starts to behave smarter I think. You can't treat people bad, and this shows in sales of Samsung / HTC, the rest (Sony/Nokia) aren't doing great. Apple is also scared, so it sues everything it can - remember the rumor of the russian guy Eldar, Samsung wants to put something out in few months - and Apple is scared not to loose the edge.
I appreciate Sony for not giving up on old phones (not like Nokia did ARRRGGGGHHHH) but I do believe there is a moment when you can say "too late". For me, I prefer to see what Samsung comes up with - for now, X10 is smooth enough...

Ether_Man said:
I agree with most of what you said... But this part, simply makes no sense... Look.
Prior to android entering the market, SE was one of the biggest players on the market. When android was released, companies that had been quite small in the phone area, was suddenly rising, but by comparison, still smaller. By the time SE released their X10 series, SE was still, one of the major players on the market. Now, minor players, managed to release phones, without locked bootloaders, without a problem, but SE does? Now, do tell me which friggin fantasy world you're living in, where SE as one of the biggest players on the market, have LESS power over the telcos, than tiny newcomers? In the real world, things like that simply dont happen. SE could have had an unlocked bootloader had they wanted to. They dont but that's fine IMO... It was well known that it was locked when it was released and so on. As I've said all along, I just find this hipocrisy to be intresting... Not wrong exactly, just intresting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
X10 was SE's first android handset. They wanted it on big carrier so they partnered with AT&T. Regardles the fact that SE mentioned legal issues specifically we all know what is AT&T capable of.
They held the iphone users from the whole world hostage for over a year. It was because of them the rest of the world couldn't send MMS, tether their connectivity or download apps like skype from the app store.
In this case I trust SE. AT&T surely bound even their soul.They partnered with devil. And their financial situation was already bad at that point.

dante-fu said:
X10 was SE's first android handset. They wanted it on big carrier so they partnered with AT&T. Regardles the fact that SE mentioned legal issues specifically we all know what is AT&T capable of.
They held the iphone users from the whole world hostage for over a year. It was because of them the rest of the world couldn't send MMS, tether their connectivity or download apps like skype from the app store.
In this case I trust SE. AT&T surely bound even their soul.They partnered with devil. And their financial situation was already bad at that point.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
An SE partnership with AT&T would affect no other handset, except the AT&T ones... Also, SE doesnt play "the partner game" like Apple does. AT&T is just like any other telco in the eyes of SE.. Bigger yes, but no diffrent.