I have begun posting comments every time I find an article on SonyEricsson's Xperia arc advising consumers looking for phones to take into consideration SE's current history of updates for the existing Xperia X10 series which are all still under contract. If a lot of us just continue doing this, then SonyEricsson will see these comments -- and consumers will think twice about getting a SE phone when there are other choices available.
Below is what I wrote on a couple of recent articles on the Xperia arc. Please feel free to amend this to suit your purposes. Also, please improve on my attempt and post your scripts for other people to post -- and provide links to some of the high traffic sites. Because SonyEricsson really is demonstrating its commitment now, spreading these messages really does have promise to force SonyEricsson to change course -- if they want to continue selling phones!
With contracts being typically 2 years, SonyEricsson's decision to abandon updates to the Xperia X10 series in less than one year is disgraceful, especially with the benefits of 2.2 (adobe flash, install to SD, processor optimizations, etc.).
And with SonyEricsson demonstrating this attitude with the existing, high-performance Xperia X10 series (which is more than capable of running 2.2, 2.3, and later), why would anyone trust them to do any different on the new Xperia arc?
The meaning of SonyEricsson's choices now are obvious to informed consumers: if you want to get the improvements to your phone that come from new versions of android, avoid SonyEricsson. HTC and others have a *much better* track record for providing updates to their customers.
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omg, people are tired of this ****.
/Close thread please.
Are you braindead enough to think that SE doesn't know we would like newer Android versions?
They're a business, not a charity. They can't afford to keep updating old phones, or no one will buy their newer ones. Simple as that.
If we just sit here and take it, then SE will be content to dish it out. If, otoh, we even appear to be able to dissuade new customers from going with SE, then they will support us because it is in SE's interest.
That. is. simple.
Better get to work then. Samsung ain't doing so hot with updates either. HTC has stopped with their older phones as well. Motorola has ignored a lot of its non-Verizon Droids.
What's left? The iPhone?
iead1 said:
Better get to work then. Samsung ain't doing so hot with updates either. HTC has stopped with their older phones as well. Motorola has ignored a lot of its non-Verizon Droids.
What's left? The iPhone?
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Pretty much this. I'm all for complaining, but if you want up-to-date software, you have two choices: iphone or nexus.
I don't think that it's wasted effort to complain. How else would companies know how to service their customers better? Personally, I've given up on pretty much every manufacturer. As much as I hate apple, I'm pretty tempted to get an iphone if they were compatible with T-mobile's 3g just for the continued support because I'm not super happy with the design of the nexus line.
i try to do this in many facebook post under SE`s pages.
it better than nothing
Great another idiotic thread.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
iead1 said:
Are you braindead enough to think that SE doesn't know we would like newer Android versions?
They're a business, not a charity. They can't afford to keep updating old phones, or no one will buy their newer ones. Simple as that.
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Old phone?
It was launched in March 2010.
the funniest thing about these threads are the people that go on to say... "Great another idiotic thread"
or
"Are you braindead enough to think that SE doesn't know we would like newer Android versions? They're a business, not a charity. They can't afford to keep updating old phones, or no one will buy their newer ones. Simple as that."
If you really think these things are that stupid, why do you even bother clicking on them when it clearly states what the thread is about... in this case anyway. Are you guys really that big of losers in life that you can't go by on the internet without clicking every single thread or do you just have that much time on your hands?
Either way i am sure some of us have come to a conclusion as to who the actual "idiot" or "braindead" is.
Oh and may i suggest some charity work if you have too much time on your hands?
Not a bad intention, but all these efforts are useless to "fight" against this. SE won't do things in the way people want. None of the other companies either will.
So why just don't give up and buy Arc? SE will happy for getting your $$$ preference again, and you'll be happy too 'cause you'll be in the top of the trend and with a phone with Gingerbread, the newest Android version. END.
***
Seriously, this has been discussed enough already.
I agree the entitlement generation needs to stop crying. However, threads like this one offer a solution to the problem, which I would support. Freedom of speech has been effective in creating change all over the world and throughout history. You cant change anything if you don't try. Those of you who post to close this thread are doing the same thing, just counterproductive.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
just why bother? if they did (for whatever reason) decide to release a SE 2.2 or above, it would be so full of bloatware that any benefit would be gone anyway. ive been running zdzihu's 2.2 froyo ROM for ages on mine, and there is a 2.3 gingerbread ROM that Jerpelea has made out even. Yes they are beta, or even alpha, but even if SE said yep we are doing it, they would take another 6 months to get it out - dont you think the custom 2.2, 2.3 would be just about perfect by then?
support the DEVS, not the global companies
stuff SE - i hate there roms anyway!
iead1 said:
Better get to work then. Samsung ain't doing so hot with updates either. HTC has stopped with their older phones as well. Motorola has ignored a lot of its non-Verizon Droids.
What's left? The iPhone?
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define old phones
if you say a 3 years old phone ok then it's ok not a phone with less thn 1 year of life span
alankstiyo said:
define old phones
if you say a 3 years old phone ok then it's ok not a phone with less thn 1 year of life span
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This device is good. It's freakin sexy. It's capable of running Froyo and Gingerbread. Until the new SE devices come out, this is their flagship phone.
I repeat, this phone is sexy, even next to the Arc, it still looks sexy and relevant. The innards are still relevant.
I don't understand why it's being treated like the SE bastard child.
We're in the driver's seat. Why not grab the wheel?
violentgoomba said:
I don't understand why it's being treated like the SE bastard child.
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Because SonyEricsson is gambling they can get away with it.
The mass of users typically just complain to each other after they've already got the device and seen its limitations. "I'll never buy another one of their products!" But that is where it ends. Flashy ads for new products can overcome that kind of friction from scattered individuals.
But SonyEricsson needs good press to sell their new phones, and if the current users of SE phones are telling everyone in the venues promoting the new phones how SE is refusing to update what they have now, potential customers will be turned away.
Maybe this hasn't happened before because there was no android OS to make this all so transparent. Now it is easy for everyone to understand. New customers and old all speak the same language: android! If SE has current devices that are technically capable and they aren't keeping them up to date, why would they do so with their next device? They won't. The arc still has the Timescape and Mediascape cruft that is making the updates so hard; that hasn't changed. And the arc is going to have a single-core processor when the competitors will be pushing out phones with dual-cores. SE will predictably move from the arc as soon as they can and shift all their focus to the next phone. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.
SE is in a pattern of peddling near non-update-able phones. We just have to say that often enough, and they will change -- period.
And with the limited number of high-volume review sites, just one person would make a difference. A dozen or so posting thoughtful messages would be able to keep the issue visible on all the top-tier sites. A few hundred customers searching and posting just a few times a week each would keep the issue front and center on virtually every site of importance to SonyEricsson. SE would hope the protest would fizzle. But why would we undercut ourselves like lead1, "They can't afford to keep updating old phones, or no one will buy their newer ones. Simple as that" and caifanX10, "So why just don't give up and buy Arc? SE will happy for getting your $$$ preference again"?
The kind of protest I'm talking about here is easy to do; it has motivated, dissatisfied customers steaming now; and SE can't really get around it. We are in charge; we merely need to do something.
this is a young phone (less than a year old) with old software (more than a year old OS)
I agree with the Update, some products are still on support after several years on the market, the idea of support is to patch the vulnerabilities and improve the overall performance. If SE can do it with available Android OS why not?
shonangreg said:
Because SonyEricsson is gambling they can get away with it.
The mass of users typically just complain to each other after they've already got the device and seen its limitations. "I'll never buy another one of their products!" But that is where it ends. Flashy ads for new products can overcome that kind of friction from scattered individuals.
But SonyEricsson needs good press to sell their new phones, and if the current users of SE phones are telling everyone in the venues promoting the new phones how SE is refusing to update what they have now, potential customers will be turned away.
Maybe this hasn't happened before because there was no android OS to make this all so transparent. Now it is easy for everyone to understand. New customers and old all speak the same language: android! If SE has current devices that are technically capable and they aren't keeping them up to date, why would they do so with their next device? They won't. The arc still has the Timescape and Mediascape cruft that is making the updates so hard; that hasn't changed. And the arc is going to have a single-core processor when the competitors will be pushing out phones with dual-cores. SE will predictably move from the arc as soon as they can and shift all their focus to the next phone. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.
SE is in a pattern of peddling near non-update-able phones. We just have to say that often enough, and they will change -- period.
And with the limited number of high-volume review sites, just one person would make a difference. A dozen or so posting thoughtful messages would be able to keep the issue visible on all the top-tier sites. A few hundred customers searching and posting just a few times a week each would keep the issue front and center on virtually every site of importance to SonyEricsson. SE would hope the protest would fizzle. But why would we undercut ourselves like lead1, "They can't afford to keep updating old phones, or no one will buy their newer ones. Simple as that" and caifanX10, "So why just don't give up and buy Arc? SE will happy for getting your $$$ preference again"?
The kind of protest I'm talking about here is easy to do; it has motivated, dissatisfied customers steaming now; and SE can't really get around it. We are in charge; we merely need to do something.
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How do you expect anyone to believe or support someone who doesn't know what he's talking about?
There will be NO mediascape in ARC
SINGLE-CORE is available in GOOGLE's FLAGSHIP, so any dual-core is just to attract people who are easy to attract with the ( 4G-dualcore ) stuff
Have you actually seen the changes made in the ARC?
2.2 is a waste of time
shonangreg said:
I have begun posting comments every time I find an article on SonyEricsson's Xperia arc advising consumers looking for phones to take into consideration SE's current history of updates for the existing Xperia X10 series which are all still under contract. If a lot of us just continue doing this, then SonyEricsson will see these comments -- and consumers will think twice about getting a SE phone when there are other choices available.
Below is what I wrote on a couple of recent articles on the Xperia arc. Please feel free to amend this to suit your purposes. Also, please improve on my attempt and post your scripts for other people to post -- and provide links to some of the high traffic sites. Because SonyEricsson really is demonstrating its commitment now, spreading these messages really does have promise to force SonyEricsson to change course -- if they want to continue selling phones!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How about you get a part time job and spend your time earning some money instead? Then you could buy what ever phone you like.
HYPER-X10 said:
How about you get a part time job and spend your time earning some money instead? Then you could buy what ever phone you like.
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The OP is offering a constructive alternative to the whining going on at xda. Here we are whining amongst ourselves. Whiners whining about the whiners. This offers an outlet for the frustrations of those let down by SE, that would reduce the whining on xda, and potentially effect SE in some way.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
Related
I'm a big SE fan, but this somehow makes me smile....
www.businessweek.com/news/2010-09-0...e-world-s-largest-android-phone-supplier.html
Haha Darn! you beat me by a minute!
It'll be the Japanese market.. the X10 is more popular than air over there..!!!!
More like Android 1.6's largest handset maker
yeah and i want to become worlds greatest dictator
I wouldn't dismiss the idea that quickly. Here in Sweden SE is a very popular brand and by the looks of it they're popular in Japan as well. If they decide to go with Android on all their future phones and start marketing them more aggressively in the US they have a chance. They have the production capacity for it, they're well known and even if all models aren't fantastic there's no denying the build quality of their devices. Even though I've passed up SE phones because of their crappy software I've always been impressed by how well built and solid their phones feel.
With good marketing and if they get better at working on Android their chances are pretty good. They have the infrastructure to reach that goal, that goes a long way.
Yes, but you must agree that their android software department need to be improved in order to reach that goal...
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
mezo9090 said:
Yes, but you must agree that their android software department need to be improved in order to reach that goal...
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
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Agreed, but keep in mind that the X10 series is the first time SE has used it. I'd be more worried or surprised if there weren't any bumps in the road.
Just looking at the updates we've had so far they've improved a lot. Fixing the battery issue, improving the built-in software and so on.
ddewbofh said:
Agreed, but keep in mind that the X10 series is the first time SE has used it. I'd be more worried or surprised if there weren't any bumps in the road.
Just looking at the updates we've had so far they've improved a lot. Fixing the battery issue, improving the built-in software and so on.
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dude its not about flaws in their software ... its about how they handle it ...
the incall volume is so ****ed up for a lot of people - when you talk to the customer support they tell you something like this "for me its okay - if you dont like it you can send your phone in" their official support form is full with topics about it ... same goes for the standby time ... it says 17 days on their homepage ... i asked customer support about it and he told me my phone must be damaged - i can send it in ... (he also said he gets 3 days of standy - i am pretty sure it doesnt even last 17 days when you turn it completely off^^)
i knew the support would suck ... but the hardware is quite good (besides from the lack of multitouch) - i just bought it coz i have faith in the community that they ll release custom roms soon
SE has released only one(3 version of same) android phone in the market in past 2 years when HTC has released atleast 4 or 5 and plus they are upto 2.2 on most of their phones. I don't think SE can catch to them any time soon just based ads showing Timescape
SE ship twie the number of phones as compared to HTC having come down from a stage where they shipped 6x more phones. So they are pretty capable as we all know. Now with Sony into the mix, SE phones would have PS3 compatibility, remote play, access to Sonys own online store, access to more Sony brands like VAIO, BRAVIA, etc. Well..
Sony has been associated with Ericsson for ages (from an IT time perspective) so one would think they'd at least be nipping at Nokia's heels by now. But who knows? Maybe Android will be the push they need to pump some much needed energy in to the brand? Time will tell, as long as they don't ditch Android I'll stay satisfied.
xGary said:
More like Android 1.6's largest handset maker
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right 100%
Yeah that'll only happen if the secret owner of Sony Ericsson is Chuck Norris... cause only Chuck Norris can make that happen..! lol
They sure have the hardware capacity to get it done, but they are just so stupid and arrogant that I do not think it'll ever happen.
If they're serious, I'd swap in the current software department for some new blood.
It's really crazy how companies nowadays can't even get simple things done right.
As the old saying goes... "too many chiefs and not enough indians".
Until SE gets their act together and stops all the internal bickering and movement within the ranks, this will never be a realistic goal for them to achieve.
I think it's time we eased up on slamming SE. Since we don't actually know how the process works internally it's unpossible to tell if they're just lazy, they're still getting used to a new product line or any other unforeseen problem for that sake.
I intentionally refrain from calling them incompetent simply because my experiences with their products in the past has been great and I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt.
ddewbofh said:
I think it's time we eased up on slamming SE. Since we don't actually know how the process works internally it's unpossible to tell if they're just lazy, they're still getting used to a new product line or any other unforeseen problem for that sake.
I intentionally refrain from calling them incompetent simply because my experiences with their products in the past has been great and I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt.
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I agree with your statement. We don't really know the reason. I read it in some post somewhere else that it's ready, but they want to test it thoroughly before releasing to the general public...
Whoever is responsible for being so slow to update, I somehow doubt that it's their developers. They are just doing what they are told by management. If Sonys developers are anything like other software devs I know they are not too happy with releasing their product with 1.6 instead of 2.1 or 2.2...
ddewbofh said:
...unpossible...
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Impossimpable! (Hope someone gets it - HIMYM).
jk btw don't take badly
** This is a debate thread, I'm not talking of lawsuit... yet **
Guys, I'm thinking about something since SE officially said the current XPERIA phones will be abandonned.
Let's figure this :
1. Sony Ericsson is officially abandonning us ;
2. We have here (and on other fora) a strong community of users, and capable developers in every domain (kernel, graphics, etc etc). Each of us can help in any domain related (programming, graphics, bug report, help for newbies, etc etc etc)
Regarding these, we should try to make together kind of "class action", to force SE to give us what we need for further development.
It can become a "real" class-action, it can be a petition, etc etc, all ideas are welcome.
The request must include, and for ALL current abandonned XPERIA phones (X10, x10 mini, x10 mini pro, x8) :
- Kernel source code (we almost got it)
- Bootloader source-code with no encryption or generic unencrypted bootloader
- All source code drivers
- All source code for the preinstalled apps in the last realease (2.1)
- All original graphics
- All source code for SE upcoming "patches" (as multitouch-like one).
- Anything else needed for future support I may forget here (please tell).
This will allow us to continue development on our XPERIAs. And we'll need these, because if we don't get them, even our community won't be able to do great things... If we got such things, we'd be able to run our phones on 2.2 and now 2.3 with no problem -- and look how it is today : we can, but very buggy because we start from nothing.
So I ask everybody to join our strengh and do something to get all we need to keep our XPERIAs alive !!!
Our phones are not even 1 year old, so please don't let all of us alone. I also strongly encourage to tell everyone who is concerned about this (we need as many people as we can to force Sony-Ericsson) : other fora, people you know, blogs, etc etc... If we don't do anything, our phones are good for trash.
THANKS IN ADVANCE !
Sorry, but this is positively silly.
They will not give you *anything* that they're not legally entitled to (which I think is only the code for the OS, which they already do).
And do you mean class-action as a lawsuit? If so, it's a positively worthlesss endeavor. All that will happen is that some lawyers will get rich and you'll get a 5$ off coupon the next Sony-Ericsson.
Bootloader is proprietary. They're probably using this same bootloader for the upcoming phones and the generations after. They're not going to hand over the keys.
Drivers are also proprietary. A lot of times, code for the drivers are licensed by the manufacturer, so even if SE wanted to 'give it away', they couldn't. Look at the openmoko phone and their driver issues since their inception (2004?).
Source code for preinstalled apps? Like moxier and creatatouch? First, they probably license these apps either from other developers or an in-house studio. Why would anyone want any of these softwares in the first place?
Graphics? I think the community can come up with better and isn't it pretty easy to rip the graphics?
All upcoming patches? Seriously? Why do any work at all at this point? the multitouch 'patch' is actually an updated driver.
Petitions and the like aren't going to do anything. If you're upset, then write a letter to SE. Not e-mail, but letters. Don't buy future SE phones and dissuade others from doing so. Learn cryptography and do a fault based attack on the RSA encryption scheme used to unlock the bootloader. Hell, get a job for SE and steal everything, lol (that last one is a joke... very big crime). SE knows people are pissed but they don't see it as financially beneficial to do any future major updates (major as in kernel change or substantial usability change). Let them ignore the long term outlook by pissing off their current users.
Seriously, these stupid threads have got to stop.
totalundone said:
Sorry, but this is positively silly.
They will not give you *anything* that they're not legally entitled to (which I think is only the code for the OS, which they already do).
And do you mean class-action as a lawsuit? If so, it's a positively worthlesss endeavor. All that will happen is that some lawyers will get rich and you'll get a 5$ off coupon the next Sony-Ericsson.
Bootloader is proprietary. They're probably using this same bootloader for the upcoming phones and the generations after. They're not going to hand over the keys.
Drivers are also proprietary. A lot of times, code for the drivers are licensed by the manufacturer, so even if SE wanted to 'give it away', they couldn't. Look at the openmoko phone and their driver issues since their inception (2004?).
Source code for preinstalled apps? Like moxier and creatatouch? First, they probably license these apps either from other developers or an in-house studio. Why would anyone want any of these softwares in the first place?
Graphics? I think the community can come up with better and isn't it pretty easy to rip the graphics?
All upcoming patches? Seriously? Why do any work at all at this point? the multitouch 'patch' is actually an updated driver.
Petitions and the like aren't going to do anything. If you're upset, then write a letter to SE. Not e-mail, but letters. Don't buy future SE phones and dissuade others from doing so. Learn cryptography and do a fault based attack on the RSA encryption scheme used to unlock the bootloader. Hell, get a job for SE and steal everything, lol (that last one is a joke... very big crime). SE knows people are pissed but they don't see it as financially beneficial to do any future major updates (major as in kernel change or substantial usability change). Let them ignore the long term outlook by pissing off their current users.
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I have to agree on this,
SE is not abandoning any customers, but they look at things in terms of financial benefit, they will not obey to any demands from anyone.
so there is no point of starting threads like since it will not change anything.
i have still not seen anything official from sony that they are abandoning the x10 series....
FYI, they've release 4 updates in less than a month's time. this is typically not actions of a company abondoning a product line.
Facebook 10 hours ago -
Hi Harman and Jenthe,
We have recently decided to not step up to Android 2.2 or 2.3 for Xperia X10. Our software developers have made this decision based on their opinion saying that a step-up would not enhance the overall user experience. Xperia X10 operates at it's best on Android 2.1.
I'm sorry if you feel this way Jenthe. It's not our intent to make our users unhappy of course.
We will however not abandon this phone. We will keep developing on 2.1 and multi touch / pinch zoom is planned to be released in a coming update for Xperia X10.
You can read more about this in this post,
http://blogs.sonyericsson.com/products/2010/11/17/work-ongoing-on-pinch-zoom-for-xperia-x10/
-Markus
Sony Ericsson Answers Team
--i feel an official annoucement is close---
uh, you seriously trust something something posted by someone on "the answer team"?
you do realize that these people are basically the same as call center workers, right?
x10 official support forum
Hello Everyone,
My message here is purely one of acknowledgement. We understand your anger, we see your obvious frustration, and we are certainly saddened by your new impressions of our company and products.
I won't repeat any of the comments from my colleagues on our Blog, Facebook, or Twitter. You've seen it all before.
We are here, we are listening, we are working hard to make sure we can impress you in the future if you chose us again.
-Martha
Sony Ericsson Answers Team
it evens sounds like there backtracking the 2 year support too with ...
Hi,
Really quick: We have stated we typically support devices for UP TO 2 years after launch.
This obviously applies to the date of first launch in whatever country it's available in first.
The key here is "up to", if I remember correctly, you mentioned Nokia does the same thing
http://talk.sonyericsson.com/message/45612#45612
and
It did at one point states we would support phones for "up to 2 years after launch" at www.sonyericsson.com/update. This was changed some time ago
http://talk.sonyericsson.com/message/45612#45612
i really hope your right and these customer service advisers aint got the foggiest but the message is getting out there by facebook, twitter, and the support forums.
Sony wouldnt even give permission to the World of Spectrum site to release old ZX Spectrum games and the Spectrum was abandoned nearly 20 years ago. No hope im afraid.
I am as p*ssed as the next guy, but this is getting silly.
Petitions are one thing, it expresses our annoyance, but this?!?!?!?
A step too far.
I won't even bother explaining why as I can't be arsed to be honest.
Sod SE, let our devs do it instead, they obviously have the skills lacking by SE.
..............
I see that someone can actually read others posts, as I was the one who originally posted about a 'class action', and that was only to get Android 2.2 on our phones, as SE in Turkey had previously released an Email saying they were working on, and would release 2.2! I'm sure you know that SE released another email soon after, saying that SE Turkey had made a mistake and 2.2 would not be released on the X10.
Thread post can be read here
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=10527595#post10527595 post 163
Just because they are not updating the x10 to 2.2 doesn't mean they have abandoned us. Just like the multi-touch update, there will probably be more enhancements to 2.1
Lee1972 said:
Sony wouldnt even give permission to the World of Spectrum site to release old ZX Spectrum games and the Spectrum was abandoned nearly 20 years ago. No hope im afraid.
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thats because they're selling these games at PlayStation Store for PS3 now...
Buisness is buisness as they say.
Nothing we can do about it OP
Erofich said:
thats because they're selling these games at PlayStation Store for PS3 now...
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The actual Spectrum games or remakes? Theres around 8 Spectrum games Sony refused WOS to free distribution, the originals would look crap on a phone let alone PS3!
All x10 users should get upgrades to an arc for no more than 100 dollars as soon as its available for being delt such a lacking smartphone. Haha
Meaning SE should do this for us to make things up to us.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
mrljlamon said:
All x10 users should get upgrades to an arc for no more than 100 dollars as soon as its available for being delt such a lacking smartphone. Haha
Meaning SE should do this for us to make things up to us.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
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Realistically, SE doesn't really owe us anything, and I promise that they are not going to give you anything either.
Even if a bunch of you swore off SE phones, they would still be alright, and it would cost them more to give us all rebates than it would to just try for a new customer base.
Good luck with that though,
Also this thread is ridiculous. No one is getting anything
Guys, please note I didn't talk of class-action, I'm talking about a "class-action" move : what I mean is not to do something penal (but it can be), but it is to join all users and see together what we can do.
Because of course Sony won't listen if there are only 1, 10 or 10 000 people complaining a bit, and much more users are shocked by what SE is doing, and if we don't complain enough, we are just SE sheeps...
Guys, sorry, I'm coming from iPhone branch of Apple, and I do know now how we get f***ed simply to promote new models - by "deleting" old ones. You really think SE will keep its 2 year maintenance ? I'd love to think so, but it's very usual to prepare one or two coming updates to make you feel you're not left over, but once your angriness is away, they abandon. Remember some sites note EOL will probably be announced starting from march...
Remember also Android 2.1 is not the last release and with upcoming 3.0 (anyone can say it's compatible or not, another debate) our OS is going older and older with no hardware reason -- we're currently just missing things like Flash, App2SD, but it will become soon a major problem as more and more apps/functionnalities won't be compatible.
So the idea is to ask SE for sources as their "perfect 2.1" is a dead-end for our phones -- and we all know they can operate very fine with -at least- 2.3.
I'm maybe silly but I've spent three months for buying my x10i and I won't let SE do what Apple is doing...
Visspui said:
Realistically, SE doesn't really owe us anything, and I promise that they are not going to give you anything either.
Even if a bunch of you swore off SE phones, they would still be alright, and it would cost them more to give us all rebates than it would to just try for a new customer base.
Good luck with that though,
Also this thread is ridiculous. No one is getting anything
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I can't see the reason why they should do such thing, especially since they have done nothing wrong...
as you said, they owe us nothing
and true, this thread is ridiculous
http://blogs.computerworld.com/17649/android_upgrades
I can't give you a better argument not to go for SE.
Thank you for the info, on the other hand i can probably find such a site for every car brand and i am still driving :lol
Sent from my X10i using Tapatalk
I think this phone will be quickly replaced by SE with a better higher quality device look at how many PSP models there are. They will probably hold back on updates for a newer model.
It might last a year at most before a "PSP slim" phone, Or dare I say a white model (lol)
P.S I may of had bad experience with the x!0 series owning 3 different models so my post may be a bit biased.
I had a SE Satio, which was a complete failure. Support for les then 6 months, 2 minor bug fixes within those 6 months.
The support of the X1 and the X10 and family dropped fairly quick as well. And also consider that the X10 started with outdated software already.
Why would SE change this policy?
In my opinion they stripped the company so harsch (2009/2010) of all unnescacarry business departments and personnel that they can't support the phones for to long. They just need to sell phones in masses to make profit. They can't give the support the customers asks, or demands. And customers benchmark companies and expect SE to have the same update ratio as other companies like HTC, or Samsung.
They won't give the same update ratio as other companies because they don't have the funds. Everything is focussed on sales, not the aftersales...
SonyEricsson: We won't keep doing what we are doing now! Promise!
Thanks for posting this, Bestevaer.
If, as they have promised, SonyEricsson (SE) really has turned the corner on keeping current on android versions, then the best way for them to demonstrate this newfound commitment would be to begin updating the X10 series.
Why would anyone take the gamble on SE keeping the Xperia arc updated?
If enough consumers are well informed, then SE is going to miss a whole cycle on this series of hardware upgrades. Keeping current customers satisfied should be seen as an investment on getting and keeping future customers.
I know I'll never buy another SE device if they don't keep my X10 reasonably current for the life of my two-year contract -- and I advise my "laggard" friends looking for android devices of such.
When HTC is doing such a good job keeping their devices current, why would anyone go SE?
Because most people don't know any better and only looking for a good looking device. I really know people who are now extremely happy because I showed them there is a market, you won't believe it, but I swear it's true! Those people have no idea if they are on 2.1 or 1.6 or 2.3.. And they really don't care.
We are with far too few to get through to SE's executives... They really don't care if 1% of their users are complaining all the time, they only want to sell big numbers and to do so they make stunning looking devices.
It's all about money and reaching targets, to get there you have to make some thing for the mass public, the top managers only get their asses fired when they don't reach their targets...
For me, once again, I will get one as I already preordered one, just to see by myself what they learned in the last period...
Sent from my X10i using Tapatalk
PollPixx said:
Because most people don't know any better and only looking for a good looking device. I really know people who are now extremely happy because I showed them there is a market, you won't believe it, but I swear it's true! Those people have no idea if they are on 2.1 or 1.6 or 2.3.. And they really don't care.
We are with far too few to get through to SE's executives... They really don't care if 1% of their users are complaining all the time, they only want to sell big numbers and to do so they make stunning looking devices.
It's all about money and reaching targets, to get there you have to make some thing for the mass public, the top managers only get their asses fired when they don't reach their targets...
For me, once again, I will get one as I already preordered one, just to see by myself what they learned in the last period...
Sent from my X10i using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are right about SE that they make beautifull phones. You are also right that there are allot of people who go to a store and buy a nice looking new phone when there 2, or 1 year subscription has expired (maybe a new SE).
But you forget that it's very costly for a company to lose loyal customers. Not only in money but also in feedback. And feedback is a free advise for a company. But mine and many others experiences with SE is that they don't care about feedback, so they will not improve as a company. And if you don't improve as a company you will lose marketshare, your position comparing to the competition will weaken. See what is happening atm with SE if you compare them to HTC, Samsung or Apple if you like. They lose market share and loyal customers.
In 2010 they shipped less handsets comparing to previous years and they lost a considerable market share while the smartphone market was growing rapidly. (Side note: yes they made profit in 2010, but every company can fire people and cut company business and make profit. There is nothing fancy about it).
Good point there, but so far they never listened to any feedback as far as I can tell. I stopped sending them mails a long time ago as they never replied, and when they did, they completely missed my point of criticism by sending a preset marketing message
Sent from my X10i using Tapatalk
Bestevaer said:
You are right about SE that they make beautifull phones. You are also right that there are allot of people who go to a store and buy a nice looking new phone when there 2, or 1 year subscription has expired (maybe a new SE).
But you forget that it's very costly for a company to lose loyal customers. Not only in money but also in feedback. And feedback is a free advise for a company. But mine and many others experiences with SE is that they don't care about feedback, so they will not improve as a company. And if you don't improve as a company you will lose marketshare, your position comparing to the competition will weaken. See what is happening atm with SE if you compare them to HTC, Samsung or Apple if you like. They lose market share and loyal customers.
In 2010 they shipped less handsets comparing to previous years and they lost a considerable market share while the smartphone market was growing rapidly. (Side note: yes they made profit in 2010, but every company can fire people and cut company business and make profit. There is nothing fancy about it).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You leave me no choice but to argue. Yes, losing loyal customers is important, I agree, but that they are not listening to feedback is no where near what you said. If you do now know how internal works, please refrain from saying anything of this sort. It's much better if you would just say they work inefficiently, and they already admit it. They can't take in all the voice of ALL consumers. I know that they're at least trying from the scope of the updates they send out internally. They kept adding features and changing support. This is to get the maximum output for the time frame.
Shipped less handsets? Well have you looked at the number of handsets they announced? The price range also increased. They're aiming for premium markets, which means they're not mass producing their units. Whatever number is produced, it will only be sold that amount only. They made more profit selling smaller volumes, but higher price range, so it's not rocket science to have profit even if they ship less. You think kicking out employees make them yield profit? Please study on what the reconstruction cost includes and how ridiculous it costs. Thank you.
http://gizmodo.com/5733556/the-complete-state-of-android-froyo-upgrades
Any thoughts?
unknown13x said:
You leave me no choice but to argue. Yes, losing loyal customers is important, I agree, but that they are not listening to feedback is no where near what you said. If you do now know how internal works, please refrain from saying anything of this sort. It's much better if you would just say they work inefficiently, and they already admit it. They can't take in all the voice of ALL consumers. I know that they're at least trying from the scope of the updates they send out internally. They kept adding features and changing support. This is to get the maximum output for the time frame.
Shipped less handsets? Well have you looked at the number of handsets they announced? The price range also increased. They're aiming for premium markets, which means they're not mass producing their units. Whatever number is produced, it will only be sold that amount only. They made more profit selling smaller volumes, but higher price range, so it's not rocket science to have profit even if they ship less. You think kicking out employees make them yield profit? Please study on what the reconstruction cost includes and how ridiculous it costs. Thank you.
http://gizmodo.com/5733556/the-complete-state-of-android-froyo-upgrades
Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know about there internal structure but I do know how bunisess engineering works. And what I experience and see there business engineering isn't working out for a bunch of there customers.
It is understandable that they can't listen to all there customers wisches, but what boggles me is that there hasn't made an improvement after thet Satio and the Vivaz (my scope). Those phones got terrible support, and customers received terrible feedback. Since then no improvements have been made, and I honestly don't think they will make improvements according to all the new phones they introduce. All these phones need support as well...
They shipped less handset, but as you mentioned the average prices went up several 10th's of dollars. But compared to the smartphone market they lost market share and other phone manufacturers shipped more phones instead of less. Check out there Q3 report of 2010.
http://www.ericsson.com/res/investors/docs/q-reports/2010/9month10-en.pdf
Bestevaer said:
I don't know about there internal structure but I do know how bunisess engineering works. And what I experience and see there business engineering isn't working out for a bunch of there customers.
It is understandable that they can't listen to all there customers wisches, but what boggles me is that there hasn't made an improvement after thet Satio and the Vivaz (my scope). Those phones got terrible support, and customers received terrible feedback. Since then no improvements have been made, and I honestly don't think they will make improvements according to all the new phones they introduce. All these phones need support as well...
They shipped less handset, but as you mentioned the average prices went up several 10th's of dollars. But compared to the smartphone market they lost market share and other phone manufacturers shipped more phones instead of less. Check out there Q3 report of 2010.
http://www.ericsson.com/res/investors/docs/q-reports/2010/9month10-en.pdf
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So...looking at your document doesn't prove anything you said. They're holding on through each quarter while having increased income per quarter...what's your point? Their market share dropped a merely 1% since 2009 from the latest document I received
All brands has dropped their support for Symbian. It's just the reality that this is not the platform for the future. I'm not going to mention any brand, but you can find that out yourself which brand also dropped their support the same time SE did. They did released 2 MR updates as for their policy. It's not as if they dropped the support midway. They fulfilled its 1 year support. What else is needed when the market doesn't even support the platform anymore? Also, wasn't your post initially for Android? What's the point in dragging in Symbian?
SE's standing in terms of updating their devices is no brainer. This phone however will sell for cosmetic reasons. Despite the massive outrage all over the internet, SE will still retain its market share mainly because they are still comming up with good designs.
However the news that SE devices will now get faster updates should be taken with a pinch of salt. Things don't change over night.
It all comes down to personal preference really. If you want a slick looking device; SE is the way to go. If updates matter go for HTC or Nexus.
unknown13x said:
So...looking at your document doesn't prove anything you said. They're holding on through each quarter while having increased income per quarter...what's your point? Their market share dropped a merely 1% since 2009 from the latest document I received
All brands has dropped their support for Symbian. It's just the reality that this is not the platform for the future. I'm not going to mention any brand, but you can find that out yourself which brand also dropped their support the same time SE did. They did released 2 MR updates as for their policy. It's not as if they dropped the support midway. They fulfilled its 1 year support. What else is needed when the market doesn't even support the platform anymore? Also, wasn't your post initially for Android? What's the point in dragging in Symbian?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You should see the 1% drop in marketshare in perspective. In 2009 the smartphone market grew rapidly, but SE didn't took a part of the pie. And you should (as a critical customer) think why they didn't grew as other companies.
My point is that you should not take the gamble. Buy a SE and there could be a possibility that you (again) end up with poor support, since they never ever improved there support. But you do end up with a beautifulll looking phone.....
The example of the Satio and Vivaz where just to make my point clear about the lack of support and feedback from SE. And that there policy hasn't changed thus far with the introduction of Android.
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA App
As far as I am concerned, SE are dead. I had the X1, SE are worst for software updates. I remember getting froyo on my HTC desire a good 2-3 months before the X10 got 2.1 eclair.
SE have stated that its a fresh start, lets see if they can hold up to that promise, but after the X10, I can't trust SE anymore, i'd much rather go for HTC, Moto or even samsung...
unknown13x said:
Shipped less handsets? Well have you looked at the number of handsets they announced? The price range also increased. They're aiming for premium markets, which means they're not mass producing their units. Whatever number is produced, it will only be sold that amount only. They made more profit selling smaller volumes, but higher price range, so it's not rocket science to have profit even if they ship less. You think kicking out employees make them yield profit? Please study on what the reconstruction cost includes and how ridiculous it costs. Thank you.
http://gizmodo.com/5733556/the-complete-state-of-android-froyo-upgrades
Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let me comment, please.
I have 30 years of IT experience, and 15 of that in application development in FT100 companies.
SE was unable to take part in the astounding demand for new cell phones this year for a number reasons and they don't yet understand the Android philosophy:
1. They were unable to bring X10 family the USA market early.
2. The hardware was excellent when it was announced over two years ago, but they did not make any changes to that hardware to keep that edge. There was no slip-streaming of a better CPU/GPU or "N" wifi etc. SE took advantage of the reduced costs 'by the time' they went to actually manufacture the phones and made design decisions that compromised the performance of the phone, it's upgradeability and saved them money in the parts list.
3. SE continues to not be able to engage serious interest by T-Mobile in SE phones while not one of the two top carriers, is one that they could certainly make a phone for. Equinox is the only phone they are currently selling and only the TM506 prior to that.
4. SE's move to ATL (according to some posts on XDA by former SE Raleigh staff) and the general reduction in programming staff lost those programmers most familiar with the AT&T firmware testing. Historically in the AT&T relationship, AT&T NEVER RELEASED a second firmware for any SE phone even though SE traditionally has released several versions for every phone they have ever made. AT&T has never felt that updates were important for any phone they sold, to them, it is just a pain in the ass. MS forced them to do updates for Windows phones and the contract with Apple didn't give them a choice.
5. Android is supposed to compete with iPhones IOS. One of the ways that makes the iPhone so desirable is that even the old hardware runs the new version of the OS. This means that people who want to stay in grandfathered contracts have a way to resell their old phone to people who don't want to upgrade to a subsidized phone and don't care about the latest and greatest hardware version. Prior model iPhones were selling for $100-$199 just as the last version came out. (Many were shipped to markets not covered by Apple.) This funds the purchase of new models either subsidized or not. Android OS updates make the phones resalable. A Android phone that is out of phase with the latest OS is worthless for resale. SE and other OEMs don't seem to be taking this into account as a part of Apple's strategy to make the iphone have increased value and are not applying it to their own strategy.
6. SE's heads have decided to "not compete on hardware." Well, this is a problem since the people who are looking for Android phones specifically are generally technical and would certainly look at hardware. The X10 was targeted at women as if it was a traditional SE fashion phone with enhanced social networking, all those early ads were showing women using the phone. The Captivate and the X10 arrived within 'days' of each other. The Captivate certainly has the hardware spec advantage over the X10a. Even small things like the internal storage was huge by comparison, as well as the full 512mb ram. Even though the Captivate phone is seriously flawed and fairly ugly, the 'hardware' outsold the X10 by 30x (at AT&T alone). AT&T has not found it necessary to 2-4-1 it or even reduce the pricing significantly, and it was MORE expensive than the X10a through the entire cycle. SE's proud it made 29-30% in the first 3 qtrs 2010 on the phones, but the last quarter I think we will see that number reduced due to the heavy discounting they did to dump the X10's in stock.
SE's so proud of the 30% markup? Apple makes 100%. Samsung was using parts they actually manufactured in other divisions such as the screens, memory and other components, it would not surprise me if they made 50 or 60%.
7. SE didn't listen customers or even to their own employees. SE gave X10's to every SonyStyle store employee to drum up support for sales. Guess what, every SonyStyle employee that I've spoken to, and I have spoken with more than a dozen, either sold the phone right away or gave it away to a family member. I could not find a single employee that actually used it. As a result they didn't really know how to use or demo it in the stores and since many have iPhones or other Android devices didn't even know it didn't have MT (witnessed by them trying to pinch zoom). The actual sale of a phone ( I bought two of these at SonyStyle stores in two different states), was a 'rare' event that the manager used for training other employees. SonyStyle was giving these phones away for Xmas sales with a two year contract, again to dump inventory. Employees when they realized that I was not just some old guy but a technical person were questioning why I would even WANT a X10. (It wasn't so much for the phone as for SE support which I have always liked and the better than run-of-the-mill PC software to link the phone which they butchered with the X10.)
8. Yes, SE never promised 2.2 or MT. (And some of the other companies have reneged or delayed a 2.2/2.3 update for many phones.) As for the global 1year policy, this is terrible, as the phone will only have been in the US for 8 months. However, with the admitted failure to deliver good customer service this year after the reorganization, Android 2.2 or 2.3 would certainly be a good will gesture to the millions of X10 owners and would make the phone worth a few dollars in resale. Only a buy back program for upgrading would be better, though the ARC with less than 300mb internal storage and 512mb ram, an already 6 month old CPU/GPU combo (which is now very cheap) isn't 'cutting edge' by a long shot.
Stan.S, brilliant informative post!
I agree with all the points you raise but I think I will still actually buy the ARC if it comes to market without delay especially after seeing the latest blog video demonstrating what I think is the best camera capability of any phone (besides the nokia n8).
I currently own a HTC Legend and while it has had updates (maintenance and OS) it was annoying that the 2.2 update came after Vodafone began rolling out a version for their phones, pretty irritating especially as I had bought the phone with no contract..So it seems no one is free of bad practices..
Regarding the lack of cutting edge hardware I was slightly put off that there was no mention of dual-core, but then I remember I work as an animator for a games studio that works on well known games and its amazing what we can squeeze out of a DS.
But frankly Im after a super fast camera with excellent video capabilities and I haven't really seen that from any other brands as an animator its annoying carrying a camera and a phone for those odd moments I need to grab/video I always forget to charge my camera or its too cumbersome for that 1 moment... but my phone I have it with me always..
flynny said:
But frankly Im after a super fast camera with excellent video capabilities and I haven't really seen that from any other brands as an animator its annoying carrying a camera and a phone for those odd moments I need to grab/video I always forget to charge my camera or its too cumbersome for that 1 moment... but my phone I have it with me always..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks.
Well, the sensor they put in is certainly a level up from most on the market, however, it is again the cheaper of the two possible sensors available. I also understand that the larger (12mpix) sensor would require the phone to be thicker and have a better lens as well as a higher cost.
If SE was really into the PREMIUM market as they claim, they know that the Cybershot variations of their phones have always been beloved by consumers. X10's and the Arc certainly show that the people from the camera section have had input into the design.
This is supposed to be a flagship phone, and there is not a single component that is Outstanding, it's more like the best of the middle ground.
It's always possible that Arc will have brothers and sisters announced at MWC and a bit more differentiation will show up beyond a keyboard or size, but the constant choice of cheaper components (and the reduced internal storage) will certainly cause all the reviewers to comment on the 'below expectations of hardware available at this time' of the devices.
stan.s said:
Let me comment, please.
I have 30 years of IT experience, and 15 of that in application development in FT100 companies.
SE was unable to take part in the astounding demand for new cell phones this year for a number reasons and they don't yet understand the Android philosophy:
1. They were unable to bring X10 family the USA market early.
2. The hardware was excellent when it was announced over two years ago, but they did not make any changes to that hardware to keep that edge. There was no slip-streaming of a better CPU/GPU or "N" wifi etc. SE took advantage of the reduced costs 'by the time' they went to actually manufacture the phones and made design decisions that compromised the performance of the phone, it's upgradeability and saved them money in the parts list.
3. SE continues to not be able to engage serious interest by T-Mobile in SE phones while not one of the two top carriers, is one that they could certainly make a phone for. Equinox is the only phone they are currently selling and only the TM506 prior to that.
4. SE's move to ATL (according to some posts on XDA by former SE Raleigh staff) and the general reduction in programming staff lost those programmers most familiar with the AT&T firmware testing. Historically in the AT&T relationship, AT&T NEVER RELEASED a second firmware for any SE phone even though SE traditionally has released several versions for every phone they have ever made. AT&T has never felt that updates were important for any phone they sold, to them, it is just a pain in the ass. MS forced them to do updates for Windows phones and the contract with Apple didn't give them a choice.
5. Android is supposed to compete with iPhones IOS. One of the ways that makes the iPhone so desirable is that even the old hardware runs the new version of the OS. This means that people who want to stay in grandfathered contracts have a way to resell their old phone to people who don't want to upgrade to a subsidized phone and don't care about the latest and greatest hardware version. Prior model iPhones were selling for $100-$199 just as the last version came out. (Many were shipped to markets not covered by Apple.) This funds the purchase of new models either subsidized or not. Android OS updates make the phones resalable. A Android phone that is out of phase with the latest OS is worthless for resale. SE and other OEMs don't seem to be taking this into account as a part of Apple's strategy to make the iphone have increased value and are not applying it to their own strategy.
6. SE's heads have decided to "not compete on hardware." Well, this is a problem since the people who are looking for Android phones specifically are generally technical and would certainly look at hardware. The X10 was targeted at women as if it was a traditional SE fashion phone with enhanced social networking, all those early ads were showing women using the phone. The Captivate and the X10 arrived within 'days' of each other. The Captivate certainly has the hardware spec advantage over the X10a. Even small things like the internal storage was huge by comparison, as well as the full 512mb ram. Even though the Captivate phone is seriously flawed and fairly ugly, the 'hardware' outsold the X10 by 30x (at AT&T alone). AT&T has not found it necessary to 2-4-1 it or even reduce the pricing significantly, and it was MORE expensive than the X10a through the entire cycle. SE's proud it made 29-30% in the first 3 qtrs 2010 on the phones, but the last quarter I think we will see that number reduced due to the heavy discounting they did to dump the X10's in stock.
SE's so proud of the 30% markup? Apple makes 100%. Samsung was using parts they actually manufactured in other divisions such as the screens, memory and other components, it would not surprise me if they made 50 or 60%.
7. SE didn't listen customers or even to their own employees. SE gave X10's to every SonyStyle store employee to drum up support for sales. Guess what, every SonyStyle employee that I've spoken to, and I have spoken with more than a dozen, either sold the phone right away or gave it away to a family member. I could not find a single employee that actually used it. As a result they didn't really know how to use or demo it in the stores and since many have iPhones or other Android devices didn't even know it didn't have MT (witnessed by them trying to pinch zoom). The actual sale of a phone ( I bought two of these at SonyStyle stores in two different states), was a 'rare' event that the manager used for training other employees. SonyStyle was giving these phones away for Xmas sales with a two year contract, again to dump inventory. Employees when they realized that I was not just some old guy but a technical person were questioning why I would even WANT a X10. (It wasn't so much for the phone as for SE support which I have always liked and the better than run-of-the-mill PC software to link the phone which they butchered with the X10.)
8. Yes, SE never promised 2.2 or MT. (And some of the other companies have reneged or delayed a 2.2/2.3 update for many phones.) As for the global 1year policy, this is terrible, as the phone will only have been in the US for 8 months. However, with the admitted failure to deliver good customer service this year after the reorganization, Android 2.2 or 2.3 would certainly be a good will gesture to the millions of X10 owners and would make the phone worth a few dollars in resale. Only a buy back program for upgrading would be better, though the ARC with less than 300mb internal storage and 512mb ram, an already 6 month old CPU/GPU combo (which is now very cheap) isn't 'cutting edge' by a long shot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very good post Stan.S!
If I may comment your points a little.
1. Hopefully this will change with arc. Seems like they have a deal with At&t.
2. Dont think hardware could have been so much better. They are using qualcomm hardware and their better processors are not done yet. Internal ROM could have been better though. More than 512 RAM is not necessary in my opinion.
3. From what you say about At&t, t-mobile seems a lot better
4. Same as above, Im not American so I wouldn't know
5. Again I think this will be better with arc. From what Ive seen here in Sweden, SE representatives seems to be really committed to upgrade their phones. They know they ****ed up.
6. Actually the head of the "heads" (Bert Nordberg) have said in a interview in the biggest economic newspaper here in Sweden that hardware is important and that they intend to win that race also. He said something like "its all about clock speed these days and we intend to take the lead". Its my understanding that Arc is not the über device of this year. It takes a while to plan these things and Bert probably influenced a later device. Also arc seems to be more about the looks and screen than the hardware. Its not a super highend device
7. That sucks. Probably the same everywhere. Hopefully arc will attract some more goodwill than the x10. Problem these days is that everyone has an iphone and wont leave that ecosystem.
8. An "insider" on a Swedish forum gave an explanation to why the x10 wont get 2.2. Apparently the boot loader is totally locked down. Even for SE people. X10 was never going to get 2.2 or even 2.1 for that matter. They cant change the kernel even if they want to. 2.1 was easy because it was the same kernel. SE ****ed up big on that one. Arcs boot loader is not locked down which will make upgrades easier, and a lot easier for xda to crack also
Edit. Link to interview with Bert Nordberg (in Swedish) http://di.se/Artiklar/2010/10/15/217454/Bert-Nordberg-gar-for-tillvaxt/
I like SE cause I tend to care more about hardware then software. When it comes to software I'm not looking for SE I'm looking at the great XDA developers community which is always upgrading every phone way before the manufacture does anyway.
thorstenn said:
7. That sucks. Probably the same everywhere. Hopefully arc will attract some more goodwill than the x10. Problem these days is that everyone has an iphone and wont leave that ecosystem.
8. An "insider" on a Swedish forum gave an explanation to why the x10 wont get 2.2. Apparently the boot loader is totally locked down. Even for SE people. X10 was never going to get 2.2 or even 2.1 for that matter. They cant change the kernel even if they want to. 2.1 was easy because it was the same kernel. SE ****ed up big on that one. Arcs boot loader is not locked down which will make upgrades easier, and a lot easier for xda to crack also
Edit. Link to interview with Bert Nordberg (in Swedish) http://di.se/Artiklar/2010/10/15/217454/Bert-Nordberg-gar-for-tillvaxt/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
7. You say that leaving iPhone is not possible, but it's not true, there are people who wish to no longer be sheep and not straight jacketed. I talked to a couple of people just today who got HTC's when they decided to sell iphones.
8. Wait, they can't put another kernel on due to the bootloader? are you implying that the bootloader runs some sort of a checksum on the kernel or checks a specific offset address for something? There's only a limited number of things that would lock it to a specific kernel.....
i am a business management student...so i thought of sharing my perspective over how Sony Ericsson is playing the smartphone game...
by exagerrating a lot before the product launch ...and after the launch..giving small doses of updates so customers dont change phone in the hope of getting new features.
think of it..
they build great hype for a product months before the launch by strong advertising (probably spending more on ads than R&D itself) , promising a revolutionary interface with ground breaking custom interfaces....X panels for X1 (remember?) and timescape/mediascape (biggest garbage) for X10 ..both over-ambitious
just so they can differentiate from other companies..
ya they have great product design.. which initially attracts impulse buyers...they build anticipation...so we cant wait to get our hands on their phone!
and then they finally launch the product which will NEVER have the latest updates because their entire focus was on marketing the product i.e bringing it to market before competition and capturing market share.
they never really focussed on industry shaking R&D like Apple..c'mon without Apple, touchscreen was a dead market.
and without Android...Apple had a monopoly.
This is revolution....not timescape or mediascape..which are my least favourite apps...battery sucking with extremely slow response rates.
then they ll keep launching small small updates over couple of months...more like over a year...adding little features..so we dont change brand loyalty....giving the wounded customers a faint vision of hope...
finally they release a small update and the entire community goes 'wow' with excitement...like a virgin getting his first blowjob.
by that time..the phone has suffered scratches, has started showing signs of wear..which means very low re-sale value.
and meanwhile announcement for newer model is made...slimmer, sexier with more bugs which will be fixed via update over the next upcoming year.
good strategy for a short-term profit making....but they are losing brand loyalty.
i am not gonna buy SE Xperia Arc...ya its the sexiest phone on the market.
but its like a hot model u bang and can never have a healthy relationship with...coz she is dumb and full of flaws on the inside...such as daddy issues etc.
/rant
its like they keep us jumping over small small updates like a cat does to a string which the master will never let it catch.
but its like a hot model u bang and can never have a healthy relationship with...coz she is dumb and full of flaws on the inside...such as daddy issues etc.
epic comment
well it's true and from your perspective which one is better?
i know getting a big income is the main focus of any company but hey customers loyalty also counts. it's something i hate from sony in general, they keep pushing new tech every year and let the customer to feel outdated
Epic thread.
Sent from my GT-P1000 using XDA App
Couldn't have said it better myself, spot on mate!
Swyped from my ZDZ Froyo X10i
bang on, while i am happy with my x10 as it was my first droid comming from a long **** list of wm devices, i am also not going to be sticking with se, already contemplating the droid 2 global, yes se makes sexy phones but, im looking for something a little more with my next device.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
Funny thread
so what do you think about HTC's strategy with Desire ( Desire/HD/Z )
Just because they released a better handset after a year of the previous handset's release it doesn't mean that they do not care about brand loyalty...
so what? you want them to stick with the X10 for two years while other competitors advance with technology????
believe it or not, many will buy the ARC, even more that who bought the X10...
Next time, go buy an HTC or Motorola
and by the way, Samsung is locking their bootloader so do not buy a Samsung android so you won't end up whining like many here about unlocking it, unless you like samsung
but despite all that, I would like to thank you for the effort made by you to explain what many of us are not aware of.. it's a good practice for your uni
good luck mate with your studies
Nocturnal310 said:
i am a business management student...so i thought of sharing my perspective over how Sony Ericsson is playing the smartphone game...
by exagerrating a lot before the product launch ...and after the launch..giving small doses of updates so customers dont change phone in the hope of getting new features.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I wish you luck with the business management, since your management of the English language makes me want to punch babies in the stomach.
Also, replace "Sony Ericsson" with every technology company ever and you have a point.
/thread
iead1 said:
Well, I wish you luck with the business management, since your management of the English language makes me want to punch babies in the stomach.
Also, replace "Sony Ericsson" with every technology company ever and you have a point.
/thread
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Grammar and syntax of the English language is not the point of XDA in MHO...
Very well written, kudos to you Nocturnal310...
@Nocturnal310:
Of course you're right. But as someone said before, you could say this about any company producing technical stuff and you would be right as well. (I expect some very negative comments on what I'm about to say...). I understand your point, but I just don't think that SE is somehow different in their approach from any other company producing consumer goods (is that right? stuff which are bought in great numbers just to be replaced by newer models...you know, we have to watch out for our English, right iead1? ). Thats quite important because we just can't expect infinite support for our product, because sooner or later (the former is more probable) it will get replaced with brand new model with brand new stuff inside making it lot more attractive. The only thing we can complain about is, that the support may have last longer... thats true. But despite all of that, I'm still not changing the brand loyalty as I just dont know what else should I buy next time. I dont like Apple and their iStuff, also don't like HTCs because of how they look. Samsung is an option, but if I should choose between Samsung and SE just by looking at the phones, SE would definitely win (and with Samsung locking their bootloaders as well, I wouldn't help myself much by buying it). You may call me a hardcore fan of SE who doesn't think about what he's buying, but thats not me. I just think that X10 was an unfortunate mistake (which I personally still love!) of SE and I really hope they will learn from it for the reasons mentioned above.
Thats my opinion and I do not force anyone to share it, but I wanted to say it, because I just don't uderstand all that poeople saying how betrayed they feel by SE.
i think SE`s problem is that they don`t really know what they do,at least so far.
they use UIQ for a while then they leave it.
they use win mo,but after x1 and x2 they desided to go for android.
but now Android is very good platform and they should find their way.i hope so.
their main mistake is that they don`t care about customers and the weak points of their products.
I must add my mustard ...
There was a time long ago, Sony Ericsson created really nice phones with a solid build quality. My x10 is 3 weeks old and is making crazy noises when twisted a bit. The whole frame is not stiff enough.
If I saw it right on arc video presentations at youtube, the crappy timescape is now a widget and it is still choppy. This uggly blue is still there. Why blue? SE colors are Green and Orange. What a bunch of stupid designers ... I think w'll have a lot of alternatives out there with lesser crappy UI-Mods.
Well, I agree with most of your points, but let's remember: they're not ceasing support, they're launching a new model and planningto lock x10 customers in outdated Android. Motorola intended to do that too, but customers did such a big buzz that they changed their minds. The bull**** about low performance on Android 2.2 is already discarded, we can see that on all the unofficially built ROMs available at xda-forums. I risk to say that even Google has his part on this entire drama. Obviously, Sony Ericsson and their UXP loaded with much more processing hunger than x10 can support is the one we should blame, because we chose to buy SE, not Google devices (which are HTC, actually ). The removal of MediaScape from Arc tells us that they know where the problem is. Let's hope they fix this "problem" on x10 too.
I truly hope no one takes my comments personally, since I'm just expressing my opinion as a SE consumer. I still like them, but not how they use my money.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
Apple Iphone 3G is still getting latest updates - same day as the latest iPhone 4, not ALL the features because it's got old hardware but there aware of that.
SE should be aware of it to, yes x10 can run 2.1 2.2, 2.3 ect so they should. There opinion is why there not updating. (why not the majority, the users decide)
Why can't we get hardware based updates? HTC magic/hero got tons of updates..
Yes new models will come out, but it's the same OS to update, not that much off a difference, our devs do there work in spare time and takes 2-3 weeks to come up with ASOP OS, (which is what i prefer anyway). Imagine an entire DEV team full time? yes it takes more time for testing ect but still.....
At least SE have reconized they F'd up. that's the first step!
robbyf66 said:
At least SE have reconized they F'd up. that's the first step!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They say a lot. Saying and doing are not the same.
moacyrfilho said:
The removal of MediaScape from Arc tells us that they know where the problem is. Let's hope they fix this "problem" on x10 too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think they removed the mediascape app because it was so hard to new people to find the music player and photo gallery.
just think about it:
you have a new phone, and you would like to play some music, you first go to the music player but you can't find it because there is no music icon on the menu
Grab a samsung phone and try to play some music, the player is called "Music", the video player is "Videos" and the gallery is "Gallery"
robbyf66 said:
Apple Iphone 3G is still getting latest updates - same day as the latest iPhone 4, not ALL the features because it's got old hardware but there aware of that.
SE should be aware of it to, yes x10 can run 2.1 2.2, 2.3 ect so they should. There opinion is why there not updating. (why not the majority, the users decide)
Why can't we get hardware based updates? HTC magic/hero got tons of updates..
Yes new models will come out, but it's the same OS to update, not that much off a difference, our devs do there work in spare time and takes 2-3 weeks to come up with ASOP OS, (which is what i prefer anyway). Imagine an entire DEV team full time? yes it takes more time for testing ect but still.....
At least SE have reconized they F'd up. that's the first step!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are comparing with 2 companies with different calibers.
Apple - every designer/ad agency/design house/design school in this world purchase their 'godly' machines for work purposes. And these macs don't come cheap, mind you. With that amount of revenue, they can afford to create an iPhone, using their 'lagless' (yeah, right) macintosh reputations to breed a colony of iZombies to support their cause.
With the iZombies having the need to own a iAmagodlyproduct, with such supporters pumping money into their pockets, they can afford to offset any losses by being nice to
Update old iPhones even if new models are out, cos they know iZombies are already impressed with them playing the nice card and that they are confident that with their good reputation and a better new phone out, A majority of iZombies who have too much money to spare will still buy it. They are just giving an aww-I understand-you-can't-afford-a-new-phone-yet-so-I-will-update-you-periodically-so-that-you-will-come-back-to-me-when-you-have-money message to the poorer parties.
Now for Sony Ericsson (or just insert any other brand names). Let me ask you. Though they are an established brand, but let me ask you, how many people will own 1 of those expensive TVs or VAIOS? Comparing with Apple, no competition.
They don't have that much extra revenue to play nice. They can only strategize and try to earn as such as possible before their products become obsolete.
It's just like people like Donald Trump, who has so much money to play with, he can just give away to some random person on the street if he wants to. But if you try doing up a business yourself, would you give away your money to charity organizations, knowing that you cannot afford to spend the money that way? Most probably not. Unless you don't mind closing down your business due to losses.
All these threads are getting sooooooo repetitive!!! There should be one big sticky for anyone who wants to ***** and complain in any way shape and form about SE. That way this form isn't flooded with every thread turning into a SE bashing thread. It really is getting tiring logging on to see what's new and the first 50 threads are people *****in about SE.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
Lonelee - agree with much of what you say.. but it is also true that there are many many many people who go back time and time again to buy the next apple product BECAUSE they know that Apple will not leave the OS lagging behind on the old device when a new one comes out.. it's spectacularly good brand loyalty. SE (and many other) are taking a very short term view, and a missing a great opportunity to get us all on the hook for the next product..
In the UK for example, many phones bought on contract are free with a 2 yr contract tie in.. so if I know that they will look after me for 2 years, then I'll go back for more.. my contract's not due until Feb 2012.. so I'm eagerly awaiting to see their behaviour over the next 12 months!
well I m back on XDA after exiting from blackberry platform...blackberry provided me a stable messaging device for a while but as needs changed, it was very poor for browsing and getting work with attachments done.
i was at a party few weeks ago and my friend took out his Xperia Z claiming this is the best camera phone.
to his disappointment, it was the darkest blurriest pic i have seen whereas my lumia 920 took a pic with DSLR-like clarity and image characteristics.
i am not sure how much sony has improved but seems like they are still a market follower and using marketing dollars to brag about their phones that do not perform as advertised.
after having wasted my student savings on 2 of their phones, I regret and wish I had bought a better phone for my first android experience.
product lifecycle
Hi,
I am not sure if I should blame any company for moving to newer (and maybe better) products. In the android phone market we have the nearly unique situation to be able to get our hands and minds at the software which is driving the product, at least partly.
This is quite different from cars or coffeemakers.
What I would like to from Sony is that when they decide to abandon a product (eg X10), they open up the sources of drivers etc, so that interested people can maintain their products for themselves.
I can understand that they wont open up the sources for current products.
A.
I can whine and complain all day about, how not getting froyo or gingerbread sucks.
But I'm really digging this dualtouch thinggy.
The implementation is not bad as people said it would be, it worked on every app i tried.
And when I think, that Sony Ericsson didn't have to do it, they just did, to make their customers feel a bit better about their device. They lose money, not gain, from releasing software updates, and unlike Nokia, Samsung, RIM, and Apple, u must realise that right now, Sony Ericsson doesn't really have money. Read Financials. So, X10 users should appreciate this, and, heck, they changed their minds about the MT thing, they might just do the same for Froyo or Gingerbread (Call it a hunch).
I just don't agree with your opinion about SE, but it's your point of view.
And is not multitouch, is dualtouch, wich is still good and if you say it works with most apps around, then worth it.
lol, SE doesn't have money??? Do you think that they would be making another two fail phones ( PSP Phone and Xperia Arc ) if they didn't have the money?
The costumers should NOT have to read financial repports on the companies before they decide what device they should buy...!!
IF I was S/E i would actually fight with every thing i got, to give the customers a feeling that I didn´t just want to screw them...
S/E is failing big on this, any X10 buyer with just a little tech sence absolutly have to feel that they have been ****ed by S/E...
Compare S/E with eg. HTC that deliver updates far beond what can be expected to the handsets...
S/E will not even support the X10 line for one year...
Quick question: After the statement that X10 won't get anything beyond Eclair, how many X10 unities would SE sell?
Just a question to those guys who are into financial estimates and stuff like that.
caifanX10 said:
Quick question: After the statement that X10 won't get anything beyond Eclair, how many X10 unities would SE sell?
Just a question to those guys who are into financial estimates and stuff like that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL you seem to ask a lot of questions my friend
MJ_QaT said:
LOL you seem to ask a lot of questions my friend
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Better than attacking and flamin', don't ya think?
pshdo said:
The costumers should NOT have to read financial repports on the companies before they decide what device they should buy...!!
IF I was S/E i would actually fight with every thing i got, to give the customers a feeling that I didn´t just want to screw them...
S/E is failing big on this, any X10 buyer with just a little tech sence absolutly have to feel that they have been ****ed by S/E...
Compare S/E with eg. HTC that deliver updates far beond what can be expected to the handsets...
S/E will not even support the X10 line for one year...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im sorry, but how many HTC phones have got more than 1 major android update ?
And then how many android phones does HTC have on the marked contra SE.....
Im not rating im joyfull, but hey, you bought an android phone with an old android version to begin with. And SE have actually done what they promissed, plus alot more....
caifanX10 said:
Better than attacking and flamin', don't ya think?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yet ANOTHER question
Sony Ericsson ( or any company that's involved in Android ) will not care about their previous Handsets in terms of MAJOR updates, they will look forward and learn from the past, of course they will support the X10 if bugs were discovered later, but they have done what they have promised...
MJ_QaT said:
Yet ANOTHER question
Sony Ericsson ( or any company that's involved in Android ) will not care about their previous Handsets in terms of MAJOR updates, they will look forward and learn from the past, of course they will support the X10 if bugs were discovered later, but they have done what they have promised...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yet another question :
What about Satio, Aino and Vivaz? are those phones already forgotten?
caifanX10 said:
Yet another question :
What about Satio, Aino and Vivaz? are those phones already forgotten?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Those three phone were a mistake in my opinion, not because of their specs nor the hardware, but just because of the software ( symbian OS, UIQ )
They had a couple of more updates for them, but they cannot do more with symbian OS. But as far as I know they have fix major and minor bugs in those three ( I owned two of them ) still using Aino as a second phone
As a vivaz pro owner, I will tell you now, that if I was SE, I wouldn't bother my self with symbian anymore either.
UIQ in my opinion was the best implementation of symbian, then nokia tricked MOAP, and UIQ, into selling their shares, in the guise of hey, let's unify symbian. Then what happened, symbian was overly nokiarised.
When google improves android, they share, when Nokia updates S60v5, they go, well ur on ur own dudes. You know this.
Why do u think samsung got pissed last year and dropped all support for symbian.
Too bad, I really wanted to get a Satio about 2 years ago and an Aino 1 year ago
Seriously, don't get me wrong. I love my Xperia X10, but I now this phone CAN do more than SE rules. I think it isn't about getting Froyo (that won't happen, so ppl stop that, or unlocking the bootloader), but at least we should get an update to make this phone even better.
They say .24 update is good, I don't have it yet so I need to proof it. And this kind of updates like dualtouch are helping, but I think isn't enough yet. That's all.
dante2086 said:
As a vivaz pro owner, I will tell you now, that if I was SE, I wouldn't bother my self with symbian anymore either.
UIQ in my opinion was the best implementation of symbian, then nokia tricked MOAP, and UIQ, into selling their shares, in the guise of hey, let's unify symbian. Then what happened, symbian was overly nokiarised.
When google improves android, they share, when Nokia updates S60v5, they go, well ur on ur own dudes. You know this.
Why do u think samsung got pissed last year and dropped all support for symbian.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What about Nokia and the Maemo project? Maemo is a good OS. I'd like to see SE experimenting with it in the future (would I be asking for too much?)
a2ha said:
lol, SE doesn't have money??? Do you think that they would be making another two fail phones ( PSP Phone and Xperia Arc ) if they didn't have the money?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude, I know what I'm saying, and just so you know, you don't really have to have money as a business to make something, that's were losses and bankruptcy come from.
Let me put it into perspective for you.
HTC Q4 profit, 500 million dollars.
Samsung mobile Q4 profit, 1 BILLION dollars
Apple Q4, sit down for this one, 6 billion dollars
Sony Ericsson, the whole 2010, 90 million dollars.
It's so difficult for them to make profits, that if they splashed cash, they suddenly be in the red.
I'm not making excuses for them, but people should look at things from all angles.
How many updates do Samsung phones get with their billions, they have enough money to hire every single XDA developer for a year.
caifanX10 said:
What about Nokia and the Maemo project? Maemo is a good OS. I'd like to see SE experimenting with it in the future (would I be asking for too much?)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you, maemo is very good. But then, Nokia has more or less dumped it for meego, and it barely has apps.
dante2086 said:
I agree with you, maemo is very good. But then, Nokia has more or less dumped it for meego, and it barely has apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, basically Maemo needs more developing, I think it might become an important competitor in the handset market. Hey SE devs, listen carefully, you have one more option beyond Android
caifanX10 said:
Too bad, I really wanted to get a Satio about 2 years ago and an Aino 1 year ago
Seriously, don't get me wrong. I love my Xperia X10, but I now this phone CAN do more than SE rules. I think it isn't about getting Froyo (that won't happen, so ppl stop that, or unlocking the bootloader), but at least we should get an update to make this phone even better.
They say .24 update is good, I don't have it yet so I need to proof it. And this kind of updates like dualtouch are helping, but I think isn't enough yet. That's all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sony Ericsson's aim for the X10 is to make as solid as possible, and I have to say they managed to do so, compared to my Galaxy Tab 2.2...
the .24 is a very reliable update, right now I am waiting for the official update for the Dual-touch in UK so I can try and and see what happens..
pshdo said:
The costumers should NOT have to read financial repports on the companies before they decide what device they should buy...!!
IF I was S/E i would actually fight with every thing i got, to give the customers a feeling that I didn´t just want to screw them...
S/E is failing big on this, any X10 buyer with just a little tech sence absolutly have to feel that they have been ****ed by S/E...
Compare S/E with eg. HTC that deliver updates far beond what can be expected to the handsets...
S/E will not even support the X10 line for one year...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Customers shouldn't read financials, agreed, but informed customers like u and I should. If u didn't want to know as much of ur phone and brand as u could, u wouldn't be on XDA.
HTC made in one quarter, over 5 times what SE made in a year, that means bigger workforce, more programmers, more updates.
Sony Ericsson had to lay off thousands just to make a measly profit. And fighting tooth and nail is what got them into that mess, remember when made phones that had insane specs for their time, K700, S700, W800, K750, K800, the P series, the list is endless. Techies like us loved those phones, but they cost money to make, and didn't sell as much.
So I think they are tired of fighting tooth and nail, they just want to survive.
And their new range is NICE.
Arc for my MTN line.
Xperia Play for my Etisalat line.
Mwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!
caifanX10 said:
So, basically Maemo needs more developing, I think it might become an important competitor in the handset market. Hey SE devs, listen carefully, you have one more option beyond Android
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't see any reasons for them to go and try Maemo..
They will need:
-More resources ( Devs and Techs ), which leads into spending more money
-More time to get to know the OS
-Pay Nokia to use their Maemo OS
It will not end up good for them, especially since it came from Nokia.....