Database Users

An interesting observation - SE using cat-string theory as its main business practice

i am a business management student...so i thought of sharing my perspective over how Sony Ericsson is playing the smartphone game...
by exagerrating a lot before the product launch ...and after the launch..giving small doses of updates so customers dont change phone in the hope of getting new features.
think of it..
they build great hype for a product months before the launch by strong advertising (probably spending more on ads than R&D itself) , promising a revolutionary interface with ground breaking custom interfaces....X panels for X1 (remember?) and timescape/mediascape (biggest garbage) for X10 ..both over-ambitious
just so they can differentiate from other companies..
ya they have great product design.. which initially attracts impulse buyers...they build anticipation...so we cant wait to get our hands on their phone!
and then they finally launch the product which will NEVER have the latest updates because their entire focus was on marketing the product i.e bringing it to market before competition and capturing market share.
they never really focussed on industry shaking R&D like Apple..c'mon without Apple, touchscreen was a dead market.
and without Android...Apple had a monopoly.
This is revolution....not timescape or mediascape..which are my least favourite apps...battery sucking with extremely slow response rates.
then they ll keep launching small small updates over couple of months...more like over a year...adding little features..so we dont change brand loyalty....giving the wounded customers a faint vision of hope...
finally they release a small update and the entire community goes 'wow' with excitement...like a virgin getting his first blowjob.
by that time..the phone has suffered scratches, has started showing signs of wear..which means very low re-sale value.
and meanwhile announcement for newer model is made...slimmer, sexier with more bugs which will be fixed via update over the next upcoming year.
good strategy for a short-term profit making....but they are losing brand loyalty.
i am not gonna buy SE Xperia Arc...ya its the sexiest phone on the market.
but its like a hot model u bang and can never have a healthy relationship with...coz she is dumb and full of flaws on the inside...such as daddy issues etc.
/rant
its like they keep us jumping over small small updates like a cat does to a string which the master will never let it catch.

but its like a hot model u bang and can never have a healthy relationship with...coz she is dumb and full of flaws on the inside...such as daddy issues etc.
epic comment
well it's true and from your perspective which one is better?
i know getting a big income is the main focus of any company but hey customers loyalty also counts. it's something i hate from sony in general, they keep pushing new tech every year and let the customer to feel outdated

Epic thread.
Sent from my GT-P1000 using XDA App

Couldn't have said it better myself, spot on mate!
Swyped from my ZDZ Froyo X10i

bang on, while i am happy with my x10 as it was my first droid comming from a long **** list of wm devices, i am also not going to be sticking with se, already contemplating the droid 2 global, yes se makes sexy phones but, im looking for something a little more with my next device.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App

Funny thread
so what do you think about HTC's strategy with Desire ( Desire/HD/Z )
Just because they released a better handset after a year of the previous handset's release it doesn't mean that they do not care about brand loyalty...
so what? you want them to stick with the X10 for two years while other competitors advance with technology????
believe it or not, many will buy the ARC, even more that who bought the X10...
Next time, go buy an HTC or Motorola
and by the way, Samsung is locking their bootloader so do not buy a Samsung android so you won't end up whining like many here about unlocking it, unless you like samsung
but despite all that, I would like to thank you for the effort made by you to explain what many of us are not aware of.. it's a good practice for your uni
good luck mate with your studies

Nocturnal310 said:
i am a business management student...so i thought of sharing my perspective over how Sony Ericsson is playing the smartphone game...
by exagerrating a lot before the product launch ...and after the launch..giving small doses of updates so customers dont change phone in the hope of getting new features.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I wish you luck with the business management, since your management of the English language makes me want to punch babies in the stomach.
Also, replace "Sony Ericsson" with every technology company ever and you have a point.
/thread

iead1 said:
Well, I wish you luck with the business management, since your management of the English language makes me want to punch babies in the stomach.
Also, replace "Sony Ericsson" with every technology company ever and you have a point.
/thread
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Click to collapse
Grammar and syntax of the English language is not the point of XDA in MHO...
Very well written, kudos to you Nocturnal310...

@Nocturnal310:
Of course you're right. But as someone said before, you could say this about any company producing technical stuff and you would be right as well. (I expect some very negative comments on what I'm about to say...). I understand your point, but I just don't think that SE is somehow different in their approach from any other company producing consumer goods (is that right? stuff which are bought in great numbers just to be replaced by newer models...you know, we have to watch out for our English, right iead1? ). Thats quite important because we just can't expect infinite support for our product, because sooner or later (the former is more probable) it will get replaced with brand new model with brand new stuff inside making it lot more attractive. The only thing we can complain about is, that the support may have last longer... thats true. But despite all of that, I'm still not changing the brand loyalty as I just dont know what else should I buy next time. I dont like Apple and their iStuff, also don't like HTCs because of how they look. Samsung is an option, but if I should choose between Samsung and SE just by looking at the phones, SE would definitely win (and with Samsung locking their bootloaders as well, I wouldn't help myself much by buying it). You may call me a hardcore fan of SE who doesn't think about what he's buying, but thats not me. I just think that X10 was an unfortunate mistake (which I personally still love!) of SE and I really hope they will learn from it for the reasons mentioned above.
Thats my opinion and I do not force anyone to share it, but I wanted to say it, because I just don't uderstand all that poeople saying how betrayed they feel by SE.

i think SE`s problem is that they don`t really know what they do,at least so far.
they use UIQ for a while then they leave it.
they use win mo,but after x1 and x2 they desided to go for android.
but now Android is very good platform and they should find their way.i hope so.
their main mistake is that they don`t care about customers and the weak points of their products.

I must add my mustard ...
There was a time long ago, Sony Ericsson created really nice phones with a solid build quality. My x10 is 3 weeks old and is making crazy noises when twisted a bit. The whole frame is not stiff enough.
If I saw it right on arc video presentations at youtube, the crappy timescape is now a widget and it is still choppy. This uggly blue is still there. Why blue? SE colors are Green and Orange. What a bunch of stupid designers ... I think w'll have a lot of alternatives out there with lesser crappy UI-Mods.

Well, I agree with most of your points, but let's remember: they're not ceasing support, they're launching a new model and planningto lock x10 customers in outdated Android. Motorola intended to do that too, but customers did such a big buzz that they changed their minds. The bull**** about low performance on Android 2.2 is already discarded, we can see that on all the unofficially built ROMs available at xda-forums. I risk to say that even Google has his part on this entire drama. Obviously, Sony Ericsson and their UXP loaded with much more processing hunger than x10 can support is the one we should blame, because we chose to buy SE, not Google devices (which are HTC, actually ). The removal of MediaScape from Arc tells us that they know where the problem is. Let's hope they fix this "problem" on x10 too.
I truly hope no one takes my comments personally, since I'm just expressing my opinion as a SE consumer. I still like them, but not how they use my money.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App

Apple Iphone 3G is still getting latest updates - same day as the latest iPhone 4, not ALL the features because it's got old hardware but there aware of that.
SE should be aware of it to, yes x10 can run 2.1 2.2, 2.3 ect so they should. There opinion is why there not updating. (why not the majority, the users decide)
Why can't we get hardware based updates? HTC magic/hero got tons of updates..
Yes new models will come out, but it's the same OS to update, not that much off a difference, our devs do there work in spare time and takes 2-3 weeks to come up with ASOP OS, (which is what i prefer anyway). Imagine an entire DEV team full time? yes it takes more time for testing ect but still.....
At least SE have reconized they F'd up. that's the first step!

robbyf66 said:
At least SE have reconized they F'd up. that's the first step!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They say a lot. Saying and doing are not the same.

moacyrfilho said:
The removal of MediaScape from Arc tells us that they know where the problem is. Let's hope they fix this "problem" on x10 too.
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Click to collapse
I think they removed the mediascape app because it was so hard to new people to find the music player and photo gallery.
just think about it:
you have a new phone, and you would like to play some music, you first go to the music player but you can't find it because there is no music icon on the menu
Grab a samsung phone and try to play some music, the player is called "Music", the video player is "Videos" and the gallery is "Gallery"

robbyf66 said:
Apple Iphone 3G is still getting latest updates - same day as the latest iPhone 4, not ALL the features because it's got old hardware but there aware of that.
SE should be aware of it to, yes x10 can run 2.1 2.2, 2.3 ect so they should. There opinion is why there not updating. (why not the majority, the users decide)
Why can't we get hardware based updates? HTC magic/hero got tons of updates..
Yes new models will come out, but it's the same OS to update, not that much off a difference, our devs do there work in spare time and takes 2-3 weeks to come up with ASOP OS, (which is what i prefer anyway). Imagine an entire DEV team full time? yes it takes more time for testing ect but still.....
At least SE have reconized they F'd up. that's the first step!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are comparing with 2 companies with different calibers.
Apple - every designer/ad agency/design house/design school in this world purchase their 'godly' machines for work purposes. And these macs don't come cheap, mind you. With that amount of revenue, they can afford to create an iPhone, using their 'lagless' (yeah, right) macintosh reputations to breed a colony of iZombies to support their cause.
With the iZombies having the need to own a iAmagodlyproduct, with such supporters pumping money into their pockets, they can afford to offset any losses by being nice to
Update old iPhones even if new models are out, cos they know iZombies are already impressed with them playing the nice card and that they are confident that with their good reputation and a better new phone out, A majority of iZombies who have too much money to spare will still buy it. They are just giving an aww-I understand-you-can't-afford-a-new-phone-yet-so-I-will-update-you-periodically-so-that-you-will-come-back-to-me-when-you-have-money message to the poorer parties.
Now for Sony Ericsson (or just insert any other brand names). Let me ask you. Though they are an established brand, but let me ask you, how many people will own 1 of those expensive TVs or VAIOS? Comparing with Apple, no competition.
They don't have that much extra revenue to play nice. They can only strategize and try to earn as such as possible before their products become obsolete.
It's just like people like Donald Trump, who has so much money to play with, he can just give away to some random person on the street if he wants to. But if you try doing up a business yourself, would you give away your money to charity organizations, knowing that you cannot afford to spend the money that way? Most probably not. Unless you don't mind closing down your business due to losses.

All these threads are getting sooooooo repetitive!!! There should be one big sticky for anyone who wants to ***** and complain in any way shape and form about SE. That way this form isn't flooded with every thread turning into a SE bashing thread. It really is getting tiring logging on to see what's new and the first 50 threads are people *****in about SE.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App

Lonelee - agree with much of what you say.. but it is also true that there are many many many people who go back time and time again to buy the next apple product BECAUSE they know that Apple will not leave the OS lagging behind on the old device when a new one comes out.. it's spectacularly good brand loyalty. SE (and many other) are taking a very short term view, and a missing a great opportunity to get us all on the hook for the next product..
In the UK for example, many phones bought on contract are free with a 2 yr contract tie in.. so if I know that they will look after me for 2 years, then I'll go back for more.. my contract's not due until Feb 2012.. so I'm eagerly awaiting to see their behaviour over the next 12 months!

well I m back on XDA after exiting from blackberry platform...blackberry provided me a stable messaging device for a while but as needs changed, it was very poor for browsing and getting work with attachments done.
i was at a party few weeks ago and my friend took out his Xperia Z claiming this is the best camera phone.
to his disappointment, it was the darkest blurriest pic i have seen whereas my lumia 920 took a pic with DSLR-like clarity and image characteristics.
i am not sure how much sony has improved but seems like they are still a market follower and using marketing dollars to brag about their phones that do not perform as advertised.
after having wasted my student savings on 2 of their phones, I regret and wish I had bought a better phone for my first android experience.

product lifecycle
Hi,
I am not sure if I should blame any company for moving to newer (and maybe better) products. In the android phone market we have the nearly unique situation to be able to get our hands and minds at the software which is driving the product, at least partly.
This is quite different from cars or coffeemakers.
What I would like to from Sony is that when they decide to abandon a product (eg X10), they open up the sources of drivers etc, so that interested people can maintain their products for themselves.
I can understand that they wont open up the sources for current products.
A.

effective strategy to get X10 updates to 2.2, 2.3, & beyond

I have begun posting comments every time I find an article on SonyEricsson's Xperia arc advising consumers looking for phones to take into consideration SE's current history of updates for the existing Xperia X10 series which are all still under contract. If a lot of us just continue doing this, then SonyEricsson will see these comments -- and consumers will think twice about getting a SE phone when there are other choices available.
Below is what I wrote on a couple of recent articles on the Xperia arc. Please feel free to amend this to suit your purposes. Also, please improve on my attempt and post your scripts for other people to post -- and provide links to some of the high traffic sites. Because SonyEricsson really is demonstrating its commitment now, spreading these messages really does have promise to force SonyEricsson to change course -- if they want to continue selling phones!
With contracts being typically 2 years, SonyEricsson's decision to abandon updates to the Xperia X10 series in less than one year is disgraceful, especially with the benefits of 2.2 (adobe flash, install to SD, processor optimizations, etc.).
And with SonyEricsson demonstrating this attitude with the existing, high-performance Xperia X10 series (which is more than capable of running 2.2, 2.3, and later), why would anyone trust them to do any different on the new Xperia arc?
The meaning of SonyEricsson's choices now are obvious to informed consumers: if you want to get the improvements to your phone that come from new versions of android, avoid SonyEricsson. HTC and others have a *much better* track record for providing updates to their customers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

omg, people are tired of this ****.
/Close thread please.

Are you braindead enough to think that SE doesn't know we would like newer Android versions?
They're a business, not a charity. They can't afford to keep updating old phones, or no one will buy their newer ones. Simple as that.

If we just sit here and take it, then SE will be content to dish it out. If, otoh, we even appear to be able to dissuade new customers from going with SE, then they will support us because it is in SE's interest.
That. is. simple.

Better get to work then. Samsung ain't doing so hot with updates either. HTC has stopped with their older phones as well. Motorola has ignored a lot of its non-Verizon Droids.
What's left? The iPhone?

iead1 said:
Better get to work then. Samsung ain't doing so hot with updates either. HTC has stopped with their older phones as well. Motorola has ignored a lot of its non-Verizon Droids.
What's left? The iPhone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pretty much this. I'm all for complaining, but if you want up-to-date software, you have two choices: iphone or nexus.
I don't think that it's wasted effort to complain. How else would companies know how to service their customers better? Personally, I've given up on pretty much every manufacturer. As much as I hate apple, I'm pretty tempted to get an iphone if they were compatible with T-mobile's 3g just for the continued support because I'm not super happy with the design of the nexus line.

i try to do this in many facebook post under SE`s pages.
it better than nothing

Great another idiotic thread.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App

iead1 said:
Are you braindead enough to think that SE doesn't know we would like newer Android versions?
They're a business, not a charity. They can't afford to keep updating old phones, or no one will buy their newer ones. Simple as that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Old phone?
It was launched in March 2010.

the funniest thing about these threads are the people that go on to say... "Great another idiotic thread"
or
"Are you braindead enough to think that SE doesn't know we would like newer Android versions? They're a business, not a charity. They can't afford to keep updating old phones, or no one will buy their newer ones. Simple as that."
If you really think these things are that stupid, why do you even bother clicking on them when it clearly states what the thread is about... in this case anyway. Are you guys really that big of losers in life that you can't go by on the internet without clicking every single thread or do you just have that much time on your hands?
Either way i am sure some of us have come to a conclusion as to who the actual "idiot" or "braindead" is.
Oh and may i suggest some charity work if you have too much time on your hands?

Not a bad intention, but all these efforts are useless to "fight" against this. SE won't do things in the way people want. None of the other companies either will.
So why just don't give up and buy Arc? SE will happy for getting your $$$ preference again, and you'll be happy too 'cause you'll be in the top of the trend and with a phone with Gingerbread, the newest Android version. END.
***
Seriously, this has been discussed enough already.

I agree the entitlement generation needs to stop crying. However, threads like this one offer a solution to the problem, which I would support. Freedom of speech has been effective in creating change all over the world and throughout history. You cant change anything if you don't try. Those of you who post to close this thread are doing the same thing, just counterproductive.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App

just why bother? if they did (for whatever reason) decide to release a SE 2.2 or above, it would be so full of bloatware that any benefit would be gone anyway. ive been running zdzihu's 2.2 froyo ROM for ages on mine, and there is a 2.3 gingerbread ROM that Jerpelea has made out even. Yes they are beta, or even alpha, but even if SE said yep we are doing it, they would take another 6 months to get it out - dont you think the custom 2.2, 2.3 would be just about perfect by then?
support the DEVS, not the global companies
stuff SE - i hate there roms anyway!

iead1 said:
Better get to work then. Samsung ain't doing so hot with updates either. HTC has stopped with their older phones as well. Motorola has ignored a lot of its non-Verizon Droids.
What's left? The iPhone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
define old phones
if you say a 3 years old phone ok then it's ok not a phone with less thn 1 year of life span

alankstiyo said:
define old phones
if you say a 3 years old phone ok then it's ok not a phone with less thn 1 year of life span
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This device is good. It's freakin sexy. It's capable of running Froyo and Gingerbread. Until the new SE devices come out, this is their flagship phone.
I repeat, this phone is sexy, even next to the Arc, it still looks sexy and relevant. The innards are still relevant.
I don't understand why it's being treated like the SE bastard child.

We're in the driver's seat. Why not grab the wheel?
violentgoomba said:
I don't understand why it's being treated like the SE bastard child.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because SonyEricsson is gambling they can get away with it.
The mass of users typically just complain to each other after they've already got the device and seen its limitations. "I'll never buy another one of their products!" But that is where it ends. Flashy ads for new products can overcome that kind of friction from scattered individuals.
But SonyEricsson needs good press to sell their new phones, and if the current users of SE phones are telling everyone in the venues promoting the new phones how SE is refusing to update what they have now, potential customers will be turned away.
Maybe this hasn't happened before because there was no android OS to make this all so transparent. Now it is easy for everyone to understand. New customers and old all speak the same language: android! If SE has current devices that are technically capable and they aren't keeping them up to date, why would they do so with their next device? They won't. The arc still has the Timescape and Mediascape cruft that is making the updates so hard; that hasn't changed. And the arc is going to have a single-core processor when the competitors will be pushing out phones with dual-cores. SE will predictably move from the arc as soon as they can and shift all their focus to the next phone. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.
SE is in a pattern of peddling near non-update-able phones. We just have to say that often enough, and they will change -- period.
And with the limited number of high-volume review sites, just one person would make a difference. A dozen or so posting thoughtful messages would be able to keep the issue visible on all the top-tier sites. A few hundred customers searching and posting just a few times a week each would keep the issue front and center on virtually every site of importance to SonyEricsson. SE would hope the protest would fizzle. But why would we undercut ourselves like lead1, "They can't afford to keep updating old phones, or no one will buy their newer ones. Simple as that" and caifanX10, "So why just don't give up and buy Arc? SE will happy for getting your $$$ preference again"?
The kind of protest I'm talking about here is easy to do; it has motivated, dissatisfied customers steaming now; and SE can't really get around it. We are in charge; we merely need to do something.

this is a young phone (less than a year old) with old software (more than a year old OS)
I agree with the Update, some products are still on support after several years on the market, the idea of support is to patch the vulnerabilities and improve the overall performance. If SE can do it with available Android OS why not?

shonangreg said:
Because SonyEricsson is gambling they can get away with it.
The mass of users typically just complain to each other after they've already got the device and seen its limitations. "I'll never buy another one of their products!" But that is where it ends. Flashy ads for new products can overcome that kind of friction from scattered individuals.
But SonyEricsson needs good press to sell their new phones, and if the current users of SE phones are telling everyone in the venues promoting the new phones how SE is refusing to update what they have now, potential customers will be turned away.
Maybe this hasn't happened before because there was no android OS to make this all so transparent. Now it is easy for everyone to understand. New customers and old all speak the same language: android! If SE has current devices that are technically capable and they aren't keeping them up to date, why would they do so with their next device? They won't. The arc still has the Timescape and Mediascape cruft that is making the updates so hard; that hasn't changed. And the arc is going to have a single-core processor when the competitors will be pushing out phones with dual-cores. SE will predictably move from the arc as soon as they can and shift all their focus to the next phone. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.
SE is in a pattern of peddling near non-update-able phones. We just have to say that often enough, and they will change -- period.
And with the limited number of high-volume review sites, just one person would make a difference. A dozen or so posting thoughtful messages would be able to keep the issue visible on all the top-tier sites. A few hundred customers searching and posting just a few times a week each would keep the issue front and center on virtually every site of importance to SonyEricsson. SE would hope the protest would fizzle. But why would we undercut ourselves like lead1, "They can't afford to keep updating old phones, or no one will buy their newer ones. Simple as that" and caifanX10, "So why just don't give up and buy Arc? SE will happy for getting your $$$ preference again"?
The kind of protest I'm talking about here is easy to do; it has motivated, dissatisfied customers steaming now; and SE can't really get around it. We are in charge; we merely need to do something.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How do you expect anyone to believe or support someone who doesn't know what he's talking about?
There will be NO mediascape in ARC
SINGLE-CORE is available in GOOGLE's FLAGSHIP, so any dual-core is just to attract people who are easy to attract with the ( 4G-dualcore ) stuff
Have you actually seen the changes made in the ARC?
2.2 is a waste of time

shonangreg said:
I have begun posting comments every time I find an article on SonyEricsson's Xperia arc advising consumers looking for phones to take into consideration SE's current history of updates for the existing Xperia X10 series which are all still under contract. If a lot of us just continue doing this, then SonyEricsson will see these comments -- and consumers will think twice about getting a SE phone when there are other choices available.
Below is what I wrote on a couple of recent articles on the Xperia arc. Please feel free to amend this to suit your purposes. Also, please improve on my attempt and post your scripts for other people to post -- and provide links to some of the high traffic sites. Because SonyEricsson really is demonstrating its commitment now, spreading these messages really does have promise to force SonyEricsson to change course -- if they want to continue selling phones!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How about you get a part time job and spend your time earning some money instead? Then you could buy what ever phone you like.

HYPER-X10 said:
How about you get a part time job and spend your time earning some money instead? Then you could buy what ever phone you like.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The OP is offering a constructive alternative to the whining going on at xda. Here we are whining amongst ourselves. Whiners whining about the whiners. This offers an outlet for the frustrations of those let down by SE, that would reduce the whining on xda, and potentially effect SE in some way.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App

Why Do Phone Manufacturers Make so Many Models?

Why do manufacturers pump out so many phones, with none making a real name for themselves? It seems like if HTC released maybe three phones, and every network could have them, they would get some momentum, and a franchise product; a "Name" for themselves. Because no manufacturer does this, I don't think there will ever be an Android to stand up sales wise with the iPhone.
Imo, back in June, HTC should have used the Evo name and ran with it:
Evo
Evo Compact (the Incredible)
Evo Shift
Then once a year or even bi-yearly, the whole line is updated for all carriers with sequential numbers added to the end, ala apple. Does this not seem like a better model? It must not be I assume, because it's not what is being done... but I feel like with the Evo and Incredible being such great phones they would really gain significant traction had they had similar names, and been available on all networks... Instead there is Evo, Incredible, Atria, Thunderbolt, Pyramid, etc. Really confusing.

well..
verizon is trying that with the "droid" name... notice how many have that? they have put a lot of branding to that brandname... "droid"
TMobile has the brand "mytouch"
rumor is ..
sprint will work with the "EVO" branding. EVO and EVO Shift.

Yeah, thats true, and I guess I might would add the shift to my above lineup, so they have a keyboard model... but what I meant, and i just realized I didn't make it obvious in my post was, why do they send basically the same phone with a slightly altered design and different name to different carriers, as opposed to releasing one line up to all?
Edit: So from rereading what you said, it seems like the carrier has a big say in what the name of the phone is? Or is it up to the manufacturer?

i would guess.. that the carriers have a large say in the names.
why would they make a few changes? again this is my guess.
it is a marketing thing... for PRICE specials....
if all 4 carriers had the exact same phone... then they loose some "identity". think of Yukon, Suburban, Escalade, Tahoe.
also..if one carrier has one on sale then the others will have to match the price. If not then the customers might feel a little cheated.
if different name or slight look change, the no longer have to match the price. Most dont know that they are the same; again look at the SUV example i gave.
Think about when Walmart has a Samsung LCD tv on sale.. it is model XY2100. Best Buy has the same samsung LCD XY2100B. they have the exact same specs, but the Best Buy has a chrome panel. Sorry no price match.

I 2nd this big time.
I'm in complete agreement with this OP, and in fact was thinking the exact same thing the other day.
Android has such a confusing and fragmented ecosystem that's it's not funny. I believe this is a result of the "young & wild" thinking behind the business model of the original Open Handset Alliance that Google helped form during Anrdroid's inception. Google came forth with a set of rules, but were perhaps a little too loose on their requirements. They made a set of hardware parameters that Android phones "should" utilize. And in a desperate attempt to become relevant during the iphone craze of the last few years, said "have at it, go build some Androids".
I understand the thinking behind such a model, as not everyone needs, or can afford a high end device i.e., Evo, Incredible, Droid X etc. Some people want to spend $100 or less and have a data enabled phone without giant touch screens, and 5+ MP camera functions. They just want to text, and download ringtones etc, as this is economically viable.
This model has some major pitfalls however, being that; 1) With marketing ploys like Verizon's "Droid", & 2) A new low end Android phone coming out every month -
Android as a whole becomes more and more anonymous and confusing to the average consumer. A lot of people are already walking around asking, "What the hell is Android anyway?" They know they want a smart phone, or maybe even the ubiquitous iPhone like all of their friends and family have... They hear about Android, and how cool and open it is, then go to purchase one from ATT, Sprint, Verizon, US Cellular, Tmobile, Etc... WTF, who to go with, and now, which phone! Wait, what do you mean I can only get the Galaxy Captivate on ATT? Why can I only get the Evo on Sprint, and the G2 on TMO?
Not a very fluid purchase, and then to find out that your precious phone won't be receiving the latest OS updates becomes the nail in the coffin.
This is the biggest thing I've noticed about Android since purchasing my Evo in June. If I didn't have some technical know how, and the support of XDA, my Evo would be near obsolete already. However, I am not the "average" consumer, I love to hack things. Most people want a good phone that will last a year or two, and not have to feel buyer's remorse every few months when a better and faster device hits the shelves.
You could make the same argument about Apple devices with their yearly refresh, and most technology for that matter but I feel the impact of this phenomenon may be greatest with Android... It's almost as if the marketing gurus at all the big telco's want to cram as much of this stuff out into the public, before we realize what's going on, and don't want it anymore.
I love Android, and my Evo is a good phone (not great), but I clearly see behind their marketing fluff, and their poorly disguised ecosystem if you can call it that.
Don't even get me started on the failure that is the Android Market.... Ugh...
What a messy, clusterf¨©k. An unorganized, unregulated, bloated piece of $Free.99 garbage. Google seems to actually encourage "free w/ads" apps over developers making GOOD apps, and getting paid for them!
Not to mention the lack of security, repetition, and licensing infringement that runs rampant throughout. This may seem off topic, but it all ties in to the lack of standardization that plagues Google, and Android as a whole.
If I were Google's CEO, I would clamp down fast in a clear and concise manner with Motorola, HTC and LG etc, and call for better hardware standardization, less marketing fluff, and actually give Devs a reason to want to get involved with the Android market. One way of doing this would be to stop selling old hardware (read, crappy) repackaged in a new phone.
Granted, Android sales are huge right now, but if they stay on this rocky path, the Big G may soon find themselves in a sales plateau, if not on their way to a canyon. They set out to be different, which is good, but sometimes different ends up being strange.

to cater to everyones needs

Most people I know usually refer HTC brand as the Cadillac of phones.
And @Mitch...like apple dont have 1000's of pointless and useless apps and without a option to refund.

Touche' Phatman,
I wasn't trying to rant or complain, so sorry if I did. I've had a mixed experience with my phone, (and it shows.)

Touch>Touch Pro>Touch Pro 2
Sent From My HTC Evo 4G On The Now Network From Sprint Using Tapatalk Pro!

October 26, 2011 Android Orphans: Visualizing a Sad History of Support

The announcement that Nexus One users won’t be getting upgraded to Android 4.0 Ice Cream Sandwich led some to justifiably question Google’s support of their devices. I look at it a little differently: Nexus One owners are lucky. I’ve been researching the history of OS updates on Android phones and Nexus One users have fared much, much better than most Android buyers.
I went back and found every Android phone shipped in the United States 1 up through the middle of last year. I then tracked down every update that was released for each device - be it a major OS upgrade or a minor support patch - as well as prices and release & discontinuation dates. I compared these dates & versions to the currently shipping version of Android at the time. The resulting picture isn’t pretty - well, not for Android users:

I found this i didnt write this

Other than the original G1 and MyTouch, virtually all of the millions of phones represented by this chart are still under contract today. If you thought that entitled you to some support, think again:
7 of the 18 Android phones never ran a current version of the OS. 12 of 18 only ran a current version of the OS for a matter of weeks or less. 10 of 18 were at least two major versions behind well within their two year contract period. 11 of 18 stopped getting any support updates less than a year after release. 13 of 18 stopped getting any support updates before they even stopped selling the device or very shortly thereafter. 15 of 18 don’t run Gingerbread, which shipped in December 2010. In a few weeks, when Ice Cream Sandwich comes out, every device on here will be another major version behind. At least 16 of 18 will almost certainly never get Ice Cream Sandwich.
Also worth noting that each bar in the chart starts from the first day of release - so it only gets worse for people who bought their phone late in its sales period.
Why Is This So Bad? This may be stating the obvious but there are at least three major reasons.
Consumers Get Screwed Ever since the iPhone turned every smartphone into a blank slate, the value of a phone is largely derived from the software it can run and how well the phone can run it. When you’re making a 2 year commitment to a device, it’d be nice to have some way to tell if the software was going to be remotely current in a year or, heck, even a month. Turns out that’s nearly impossible - here are two examples:
The Samsung Behold II on T-Mobile was the most expensive Android phone ever and Samsung promoted that it would get a major update to Eclair at least. But at launch the phone was already two major versions behind — and then Samsung decided not to do the update after all, and it fell three major OS versions behind. Every one ever sold is still under contract today.
The Motorola Devour on Verizon launched with a Megan Fox Super Bowl ad, while reviews said it was “built to last and it delivers on features.” As it turned out, the Devour shipped with an OS that was already outdated. Before the next Super Bowl came around, it was three major versions behind. Every one ever sold is still under contract until sometime next year.
Developers Are Constrained Besides the obvious platform fragmentation problems, consider this comparison: iOS developers, like Instapaper’s Marco Arment, waited patiently until just this month to raise their apps’ minimum requirement to the 11 month old iOS 4.2.1. They can do so knowing that it’s been well over 3 years since anyone bought an iPhone that couldn’t run that OS. If developers apply that same standard to Android, it will be at least 2015 before they can start requiring 2010’s Gingerbread OS. That’s because every US carrier is still selling - even just now introducing 2 - smartphones that will almost certainly never run Gingerbread and beyond. Further, those are phones still selling for actual upfront money - I’m not even counting the generally even more outdated & presumably much more popular free phones.
It seems this is one area the Android/Windows comparison holds up: most app developers will end up targeting an ancient version of the OS in order to maximize market reach.
Security Risks Loom In the chart, the dashed line in the middle of each bar indicates how long that phone was getting any kind of support updates - not just major OS upgrades. The significant majority of models have received very limited support after sales were discontinued. If a security or privacy problem popped up in old versions of Android or its associated apps (i.e. the browser), it’s hard to imagine that all of these no-longer-supported phones would be updated. This is only less likely as the number of phones that manufacturers would have to go back and deal with increases: Motorola, Samsung, and HTC all have at least 20 models each in the field already, each with a range of carriers that seemingly have to be dealt with individually.
Why Don’t Android Phones Get Updated? That’s a very good question. Obviously a big part of the problem is that Android has to go from Google to the phone manufacturers to the carriers to the devices, whereas iOS just goes from Apple directly to devices. The hacker community (e.g. CyanogenMod, et cetera) has frequently managed to get these phones to run the newer operating systems, so it isn’t a hardware issue.
It appears to be a widely held viewpoint 3 that there’s no incentive for smartphone manufacturers to update the OS: because manufacturers don’t make any money after the hardware sale, they want you to buy another phone as soon as possible. If that’s really the case, the phone manufacturers are spectacularly dumb: ignoring the 2 year contract cycle & abandoning your users isn’t going to engender much loyalty when they do buy a new phone. Further, it’s been fairly well established that Apple also really only makes money from hardware sales, and yet their long term update support is excellent (see chart).
In other words, Apple’s way of getting you to buy a new phone is to make you really happy with your current one, whereas apparently Android phone makers think they can get you to buy a new phone by making you really unhappy with your current one. Then again, all of this may be ascribing motives and intent where none exist - it’s entirely possible that

th your current one. Then again, all of this may be ascribing motives and intent where none exist - it’s entirely possible that the root cause of the problem is just flat-out bad management (and/or the aforementioned spectacular dumbness).
A Price Observation All of the even slightly cheaper phones are much worse than the iPhone when it comes to OS support, but it’s interesting to note that most of the phones on this list were actually not cheaper than the iPhone when they were released. Unlike the iPhone however, the “full-priced” phones are frequently discounted in subsequent months. So the “low cost” phones that fueled Android’s generally accepted price advantage in this period were basically either (a) cheaper from the outset, and ergo likely outdated & terribly supported or (b) purchased later in the phone’s lifecycle, and ergo likely outdated & terribly supported.
Also, at any price point you’d better love your rebates. If you’re financially constrained enough to be driven by upfront price, you can’t be that excited about plunking down another $100 cash and waiting weeks or more to get it back. And sometimes all you’re getting back is a “$100 Promotion Card” for your chosen provider. Needless to say, the iPhone has never had a rebate.
Along similar lines, a very small but perhaps telling point: the price of every single Android phone I looked at ended with 99 cents - something Apple has never done (the iPhone is $199, not $199.99). It’s almost like a warning sign: you’re buying a platform that will nickel-and-dime you with ads and undeletable bloatware, and it starts with those 99 cents. And that damn rebate form they’re hoping you don’t send in.
Notes on the chart and data Why stop at June 2010? I’m not going to. I do think that having 15 months or so of history gives a good perspective on how a phone has been treated, but it’s also just a labor issue - it takes a while to dredge through the various sites to determine the history of each device. I plan to continue on and might also try to publish the underlying table with references. I also acknowledge that it’s possible I’ve missed something along the way.
Android Release Dates For the major Android version release dates, I used the date at which it was actually available on a normal phone you could get via normal means. I did not use the earlier SDK release date, nor the date at which ROMs, hacks, source, et cetera were available.
Outside the US Finally, it’s worth noting that people outside the US have often had it even worse. For example, the Nexus One didn’t go on sale in Europe until 5 months after the US, the Droid/Milestone FroYo update happened over 7 months later there, and the Cliq never got updated at all outside of the US.

Im not a fanboy i despise apple and the ios just thought this waz intersting because its true devices are not supported nearly enough

Agreed. And a good read too, even thought there was not much new info here I didnt know except some of your stats.. but what is the point here? Are you trying to accomplish something? or convince people to buy iPhones or Nexus phones? or rally us to join together and demand updates from carriers? Or just a general discussion so we can get some frustration out or..?

Fits right in the ATRIX forum, right?

No someone posted that link on motos facebook just figured id share. Ill always be an android user even if they never update devices. Just thought was an intersting article. I ignored the iphone parts but i guess updates is a bigger problem then i realized and hope the manufacturers abd google stop this and start supporting devices longer.
Mabye all android users need too start complaining too google and the manufacturers about this because . All over xda and other forums people are not happy about updates. Is a hot . . topic would be nice to not need a device every couple months to stay on a current os. And now with the dual core phone that are supposed too be futre proff. Lol yeah right even when quad cores are out the manufactures will continue this trend drop support on current devices so people have too buy a new one too enjoy new android flavors. But i really hope something changes that

All I gotta say is that we are well within our 18 months of support. Motorola needs to read that memo...
Sent from my MB860 using xda premium

apple has one software iteration per year, while android has gone through 3 in the last 1.5 years.

The question is does this really matter when these same devices (or at least most of them) still run the most current is through the help of CM?
Why would the manufacturer waste their resources when users can run a cm copy already?
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App

crossix said:
The question is does this really matter when these same devices (or at least most of them) still run the most current is through the help of CM?
Why would the manufacturer waste their resources when users can run a cm copy already?
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Us CM users (actually, ROM users in general) are in the vast minority of Android users. A very vocal minority, but a minority nontheless. So it hurts the manufacture's bottom line when these updates dont happen.

I have 3 friends that own an LG Ally. A mid range phone. And all 3 don't give a damn which android version they're on. They all got it for free with a 2 year contract. I feel they got ripped off. But again they don't care and I wish I had their attitude. :/
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App

dLo GSR said:
apple has one software iteration per year, while android has gone through 3 in the last 1.5 years.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's why people on Engadget are bragging that they can put IOS5 on their 3GS phones. Heck even Nokia is getting Anna and Belle within a couple of months on a completely dead OS.
Make it happen Motorola, (even if it's 2012) or many will be going to Samsung...
Sent from my MB860 using xda premium

Agreed my point in posting this is the manufactures need too suport us longer its ridicilous ifour hardware now can run new android flavors ajd it doesnt happen because there too greedy and want us too buy new devices constantly. I should have erased all the ios partsbelieve me all ios is just a pretty app launcher . Pretty much adw or launcher pro sums up the functionaloty of ios. And i wouldnt ever leave android even if i was offered an iphone 5 free

This is a dual core phone yes theres several on the market but its not yet even the standard most people are still runing single core androids so too me if we dont see an official ics ota pretty darn ridicilous

crossix said:
The question is does this really matter when these same devices (or at least most of them) still run the most current is through the help of CM?
Why would the manufacturer waste their resources when users can run a cm copy already?
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because they can't plan around warranty voiding 3rd party modifications. Not to mention Joe Blow wont open advanced settings, let alone flash a ROM. Ever do tech support? People are stupid.
Which sums up the thread. Yes we are being gauged on these phones, and it works.... because people as a whole don't know or care.
Want to spread the word on that graph? Dumb it down, add a cat or two, put it in a black caption box with some generic 'meme' text and post it on Failbook.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App

Haha thank u i agree with u and thats hilarious because its true dumb it down and put it on fail book haha.

I think it has to due more with the fact that every 6 months there is a new hardware sequel to your phone.
Apple has less phone models in 5 years then Samsung, Motorola, HTC, etc. have in a single year.They are all focused on this hardware cold-war at the expense of software.
Our phones may only be 6-12 months old for us, but to the manufacturer, they are already 3 generations back...

What happened to this?
Sent from my Nexus S using xda premium

Anyone worried if HTC go bust how it would affect the HTC One?

The HTC One is very much looking like the next phone for me long term, but all this talk about how poor HTC is doing is making me wonder is it worth the risk if they go bust, then I guess the software would stop getting updates, warranty wouldn't be covered if things go wrong, no sell on value as well.
What are peoples' thoughts?

happysteveo said:
The HTC One is very much looking like the next phone for me long term, but all this talk about how poor HTC is doing is making me wonder is it worth the risk if they go bust, then I guess the software would stop getting updates, warranty wouldn't be covered if things go wrong, no sell on value as well.
What are peoples' thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1) Here in the uk warranty wouldnt be an issue as the contract is with the company you purchased the phone from and not the manufacturer. I dunno how it works in other countries but we are safe this side of the pond.
2) If the development community is thriving then I wouldnt worry about updates (i plan on jumping straight to cyanogenmod if it is ever supported).
3) Sell on value would naturally be effected but thats the risk you take with anything you buy these days.
Personally I cant see HTC going under and if they do, ah well, not like im spending thousands.

You could play the Titanic theme as you toss your One off the back of a ship?

jdawglx01 said:
You could play the Titanic theme as you toss your One off the back of a ship?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i lol'd in the office

i really cant see htc going bust anytime soon.
They are still making money , and that without the launch of the htc one which should boost them up for a bit.
Dont forget they are still the 4th largest manufactor of phones in the world.

That thought did cross my mind too but I do not think they would go bust or do a blackberry and mess things up totally.

happysteveo said:
The HTC One is very much looking like the next phone for me long term, but all this talk about how poor HTC is doing is making me wonder is it worth the risk if they go bust, then I guess the software would stop getting updates, warranty wouldn't be covered if things go wrong, no sell on value as well.
What are peoples' thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HTC isn't going busted. They are not in bankrupcy they only have lesser sales but still they earn a gross of million dollars per quarter. It's just it is low compared to other phone companies. Don't be a paranoid, the smartphone manufacturing sector is one of the most lively business today there's no way any company would go bankrupt from it. There's far too many other OEMs which has lower sales than HTC infact HTC has even higher sales compared to blackberry and LG.

GRRR .. how do you remove a thanks !! ... Fat fingers and a touchpad don't mix !!!
Of course HTC isn't going bust .. what a daft idea. Their sales have slowed per quarter year on year when the crazy economy nowadays expects constant growth. If HTC comes a respecatble third behind Samsung and Apple that will satisfy the company goals as long as they take back some more market share.
Remeber that the percentage of market share figures being shown around are dependent on the size of the market. Samsung has done an enormous job (and spent an enormous amount of money) expanding the overall market. 10% of the market 5 years ago is nowhere near as good as 5% of the current market, and that's mainly thanks to the marketing divisions of Samsung and Apple competing to take over the world ...
On the other hand, HTC has always produce a 'disruptive' product every couple of years, one which stretches the envelope in some way or another. They innovate, the others market ... There will always be a relatively small but extremely comfortable place for HTC top-end phones ... and don't forget ... they made white-box phones for other companies and carriers for years before 'coming out' ... there's still a market there too.
Worry more for Nokia, Blackberry and a few others. The likes of Samsung and LG are appliance manufacturers and Apple are computer manufacturers so they have safe business to fall back on. Once the Cellphone market starts to approach saturation they'll ease off .. but right now the race is for a decent slice of China, South America and India ... Let's see how HTC acceptance is in those regions before we start to ring any funeral bells

yes this post pisses me off as well
HTC has so far been profitable, ie: they are not yet sustaining operational losses
yes yes sales are down, but the latest numbers are just media FUD, with a new supreme SINGLE flagship almost released no one would buy their old flagships
the recent news is that they are at their lowest pre android level, surprising how they've survived and grew back then if its a near death experience
besides even if they cross into "loss", companies can survive this state for years as well

What everyone else said, plus: Absolute WORST CASE scenario, they get bought. A company with as much valuable talent, branding, IP and carrier/manufacturing partnerships as HTC doesn't "go bust". Who would buy them? Well, ASUS is a Taiwanese company that desperately wants to transition successfully into the phone market..

hamdir said:
yes this post pisses me off as well
HTC has so far been profitable, ie: they are not yet sustaining operational losses
yes yes sales are down, but the latest numbers are just media FUD, with a new supreme SINGLE flagship almost released no one would buy their old flagships
the recent news is that they are at their lowest pre android level, surprising how they've survived and grew back then if its a near death experience
besides even if they cross into "losses", companies can survive this state for years as well
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A bit OT but I have a feeling they will release more phones than just "ONE" over this year but I really hope they don't as it's just easier to maintain and support 1 phone a year rather than 6 or more.

jdawglx01 said:
You could play the Titanic theme as you toss your One off the back of a ship?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you are so funny, man.:laugh:

While it's true that HTC's revenue and profits have been depleting for about 18 months, the company is actually doing quite well when compared to Sony, Motorola, Nokia, BlackBerry and a few others. All of those companies have been operating at a loss for quite some time, yet they have managed to stay alive.
The fact that HTC is changing its approach with the One is actually a very good sign. The company will be able to focus its software development efforts on fewer devices and throw its entire marketing budget behind one device. We will see other HTC devices launch in the coming months, but a handful of HTC execs have stated that a number of phones were killed off so that the company could make the HTC One a priority.
If things go really bad with the HTC One this year and can't find a way to reverse its downward trend, HTC will still be around for at least 2-3 years before they would need to file for bankruptcy.

Imagine if HTC did go bust...we'd have to buy plasticy toy looking phones that make toilet noises.

Wiki shows this
Revenue $9.449 billion USD
Operating income $1.496 billion USD
I think they will be ok ....

hamdir said:
yes this post pisses me off as well
HTC has so far been profitable, ie: they are not yet sustaining operational losses
yes yes sales are down, but the latest numbers are just media FUD, with a new supreme SINGLE flagship almost released no one would buy their old flagships
the recent news is that they are at their lowest pre android level, surprising how they've survived and grew back then if its a near death experience
besides even if they cross into "losses", companies can survive this state for years as well
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I could not agree more. HTC made less PROFIT this quarter making it their lowest performing quarter since the nexus one days.
Remember winmo? This site used to be all HTC, their stock was rising based on decisions like branding on their own etc. The One will be the largest rollout since the Touch pro 2. They are still more profitable now since then. HTC isn't going anywhere.
Sent from my HTC One V using Tapatalk 2

I think HTC is unlikely to go bust. They took everything they learned from the Sensation line and gave us the One X. As they realized various issues, HTC rapidly adapted their phones to fix issues of the past. Things like the WiFi antenna issue will never happen again. Sense 5 is much more in line with AOSP and Holo, with much better functional addition. They brought back the aluminum unibody. They innovated new features, brought a truly good camera to the table rather than better optics and a good camera app. They added new sound hardware and truly delivered on their promise to give great sound instead of just an equalizer. The list just keeps going on.
HTC has shown that they rapidly adapt to fix their weaknesses and give customers what they want. I think that is what will ensure their survival.

The only phone company going bust this year is Blackberry

There is no chance at all but in case Google or Samsung are the potential buyer they will take care of all things
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda app-developers app

Reckless187 said:
Imagine if HTC did go bust...we'd have to buy plasticy toy looking phones that make toilet noises.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
just awesome
by the way HTC just closed a 10 year deal with apple, a 3 year sponsorship with UEFA and has been on a hiring spree, so yea it's safe to say they are not going anywhere
don't let media FUD get to you
---------- Post added at 10:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:02 AM ----------
daleski75 said:
A bit OT but I have a feeling they will release more phones than just "ONE" over this year but I really hope they don't as it's just easier to maintain and support 1 phone a year rather than 6 or more.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the strategy is for one supreme flagaship, no other devices for at least half a year, and with a very high chance of a One + mid year
there will definitely be other mid to low range devices, a phablet + tablet maybe
considering that even Apple is about to release two iPhones (and two ipads, ipod etc) you can't really expect a phone specific company like HTC to just go for one device, actually no body releases one device...stop dreaming
but they did fix their biggest mistake which was release three competing flagships last year (One S, X, XL)
a mid year refresh will not hurt, in fact it will persuade those considering the One mid year but tempted with newer devices specifications, all their previous mid year refresh were basically the same device with a slight speed+battery boost/ refinement to the finish/red accents! so no matter how the minority of XDA memebers like to cry about those minor refresh releases, ITS STILL THE SAME DEVICE
yesterday i saw the One X+ with someone and i asked him if i can see it, i just couldn't stop myself from laughing all those who freaked out when it was announced, its 99% the One X, HTC have the same team for what basically is the same firmware on both, in fact im all for it, refreshing the same device actually entices HTC to keep the updates flowing