Database Users

[Q] X10 Owners... X10 over Samsung Captivate?

I swear this is a serious question... I have posted here and not the Captivate forum because I really want thoughtful responses and not smart-ass answers.
After over a year's wait, the X10 is finally coming to AT&T tomorrow. I've had only Ericssons and Sony Ericssons since 1998. I have always been a fan of SE designs and loved having a unique phone. Perhaps earlier this year I would have immediately jumped on the X10. However, the Samsung Captivate has generally received higher scores, and on multiple reviews, has also been named the best Android phone on AT&T.
I am trying really hard to like the X10 more than the Captivate, but can any X10 owners offer compelling reasons to go with the X10? Please assume the 2.1 update arrives as planned. I understand this is objective, but I really just want the "best" AT&T phone.
So far, my main reasons to go with the X10 are:
1) I love SE phones.
2) I've loved SE cameras, and the X10's appears to perform better than the Captivate's.
3) The camera flash/bright LED light has saved me in more than one situation throughout the years.
4) Mediascape seems to be highly regarded in most of the reviews I have read, and I plan to upload music, pictures, and videos to this phone.
5) I personally like the X10 design more than the Captivate.
Also, a few questions before I play with both phones tomorrow:
1) Does the lack of multi-touch really make a difference?
2) Does the UXP act as clunky as reviews have said it does?
Thanks in advance for your thoughts!
Christian

In my mind x10 is not the best smart phone out there.
It has a os version behind others and lack of mt
I not sure is 2.1 will improve the system as i never tried b4
but if u not a hardcore gamer den mt is not a problem for you.
Lack of mt mean can't play game like pspxdroid smootly
And Samsung Captivate is really a powerful mobile but the power usage is higher too.
X10 is the only phone i know that your phone can last u a day without much worry that your batt will run out till the end of the day if you control your batt usage well.
And i just love the design of the phone i think is the few design that score toe to toe with iphone 4g and that why i go for it. And the problem with all the older os compare to htc/samsumg cause x10 have a sony UI design where making it different. I love the background at the setting page compare to the normal black background (just make you think it not customize before)
But if you got the chances to hold both phone i believe x10 look really great especial the white phone=)
Note: Some other user said: Buying a smart phone is like getting a wife. =)
it never going to be prefect in any way. But if you love it? that good enough.
Hope you pick the right wife for you=)

You already put up 5 good reasons to get the X10 so it sounds to me like you already want it.
As to your questions:
1: Multi touch was impressive when I tried it other phones and was a big negative against me getting the X10, but now that I got the X10 anyway the controls work just fine for me.
2: I'm sure the user experience could be better, I don't like everything about this phone but it seems pretty good overall. I would say as just a phone, the X10 needs some improvement, but as a data device it does everything I need.

my opinion
hi im from australia,
we dont have the samsung captivate but we have the samsung galaxy s, and i curently own the SE X10 which i chose over the samsung galaxy s.
i work in a telco shop so i get to play with the galaxy all the time and ive compared it to my x10, and i chose the x10.
this is what ive notices about the 2 handsets.
X10:
the battery life in the start was really bad, but as about 2 weeks passed, the battery actually started lasting longer, must be just because it was new and just needed a few proper charges.
the original software that came on it was a bit laggy an had a few problems with it but im now on the (26) software and its working great
i personally dont care for multi touch and not so much about games either (i have ipod touch and i play all my games on that.
although i have quiet a lot of games on my x10 and they all play great,
i use vignette as my main camera app and the photos i get with it are spectacular you may check them here http://img375.imageshack.us/g/20100710160347439.jpg/
i prefer the screen of the x10, yes i know that the galaxy has a supper amoled, ive had the omnia II i8000 which had an amoled screen and really dont care for it.
with the update the phone will be even better and faster. at the same time as much as i hope we get 2.1 soon and 2.2 following i really dont think that numbers matter too much, i got the phone because it did what i wanted for me.
now on to the GALAXY S:
great supper amoled screen,
16gig internal memory
multi touch
2.1 and soon getting 2.2 which will make it as insane phone especially for games (if thats what you want)
but one thing ive noticed is that when ever i use our store demo which has the latest software and all the same apps as my x10 (i set it up in the same way)
the galaxy s seems to lag a fair bit over time and requires a reboot to fix that.
the only thing that the galaxy has that i really wanted was SWYPE KEYBOARD and i actually got it on my x10 and its working great.
at the same time i see a lot of people buying both these phones, and no one as of yet has come back with problems with them,
i dont know if ive helped much in your decision but i just say pick one that has what you want

To answer some of your questions:
UXP is quite good. That being said, Mediascape should make you change your mind. It's definitely good, but not good enough to die for. You will find better picture viewers (JustPictures) and media players (Rock Player) in the Android market for free.
Captivate has multi-touch, SAMOLED and newer Android. However, it's build quality is weaker.
Multitouch doesnt matter in most apps. Pinch and zoom isn't really a big deal. However, some of the games require multi-touch. Once again, it isn't a deal breaker, but it is important enough to be considered.
Btw, Amazon will be offering X10 with contract for 50 bucks. What is the best deal you can get on the Captivate?

CinCa0989 said:
2) I've loved SE cameras, and the X10's appears to perform better than the Captivate's.
Christian
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some of the images captured from stock camera, you will see lot of variance in quality due, reason being user.....
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=724314

There's one reason I would not recommend buying a SE phone, cruddy customer support and a desire to have people update to latest phone rather then keep developing older models. They try to make the customers pay over and over for the same stuff, look at the way they treated PSP users who got the new model.
Sony doesn't get enthusiast smart phones, HTC and Apple do; they know that regular on time updates are important to us. That's who I'd be buying a smart phone from. Sony cater to the mass market uneducated customers who dont know how to upgrade their os or don't care.
Upshot, we will get 2.1 very late, we might get 2.2 when everyone is getting 3.0. I'll eat my hat if X10 will get 3.0, by then SE will see it as cannibalizing sales of their newest phone.
Also, x10 lacks the 512 ram that's talked about as likely prerequisite for 3.0. So, it's a well built phone with a limited lifespan. I'd go with an HTC phone for android, they get smartphones and have a prooven track record. Samsung are new at this game, so we will see. The Galaxy build quality is much poorer than SE, HTC or Apple.
My 2c
-------------------------------------
Sent via the XDA Tapatalk App

consolation said:
... look at the way they treated PSP users who got the new model.
Sony doesn't get enthusiast smart phones, HTC and Apple do; they know that regular on time updates are important to us. That's who I'd be buying a smart phone from. Sony cater to the mass market uneducated customers who dont know how to upgrade their os or don't care.
Also, x10 lacks the 512 ram that's talked about as likely prerequisite for 3.0. So, it's a well built phone with a limited lifespan. I'd go with an HTC phone for android, they get smartphones and have a prooven track record. Samsung are new at this game, so we will see. The Galaxy build quality is much poorer than SE, HTC or Apple.
My 2c
-------------------------------------
Sent via the XDA Tapatalk App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1st Sony and Sony Ericsson are two different companies.
2nd we have plenty of firmware updates but no OS updates. We will have one very soon now. HTC have made a lot more Android phones. This is SE's first and i think they did a pretty good job as well.
3rd there is no prerequisite for Android 3.0. Google haven't said anything about that.

I'd say go with what you really like in your hand and to your eyes. Both are great phones and you will get over many of the cons with either phones with help on several forums.
I owned several phones in the last 3 years and started to like to SE designs more ever since I owned W910. Recently, I owned Nexus One and iPhone 4 but settled with X10 mainly for how it feels in my hands and for the looks.
It has quite a few annoying functionality issues but I got around them after a week or two. I have the white X10a which makes it even more special.
99% of the time I use my phone to make calls, text, googleTalk, Maps, and Browsing. So, MT doesn't even come to my thoughts and 1.6 feels fine.
Some apps that makes X10 even better
1. ADW Launcher
2. CalWidget
3. Beautiful Widgets (Paid App)
4. Weather & Toggle Donate (paid). You don't need if u get Beautiful Widgets.
5. Switch Pro Widget (Paid app)
6. JustPictures (I use Smugmug so, it rocks)
7. MixZing Media Player
8. Data Counter widget (if you don't have unlimited data plan)

realunited123 said:
1st Sony and Sony Ericsson are two different companies.
2nd we have plenty of firmware updates but no OS updates. We will have one very soon now. HTC have made a lot more Android phones. This is SE's first and i think they did a pretty good job as well.
3rd there is no prerequisite for Android 3.0. Google haven't said anything about that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1) SE is owned 50% by Sony and share lots of board members, marketing etc etc. It's for all intents and purposes a subsidiary company,
2) Yes, firmware updates that FAILED to address basic flaws in the phone, and would have been unnecessary if they rolled out 2.0, 2.1, and we should have 2.2 by now. Instead we are hoping that maybe we can get 2.1 - 6 months late. The phone is well made, no argument, not quite up to Apple standard, but definitely better built than other top tier androids.
SE won't learn if they treat customers like **** and we take it. I'm not sure that they can change their corporate mentality enough to make a difference. It's a massive multi-national, X10 is one of millions of other products ranging from bog rolls to rockets, they will never care as much about any individual product. HTC makes smart phones, they can't afford to get a bad rep, this is good for us, the customers. Even Apple have more at stake with the iPhone. I fear Samsung will head in SE's footsteps, but, I haven't heard much about them either way. Sony has a reputation for spreading their customers' butt cheeks and ramming **** in.
3) The 512MB RAM pre-req has been floated by a number of sources, it will give SE perfect excuse not to give us 3.0; almost like it's been planned...
Also, another reason to avoid SE, we had pretty little progress on hacking the bootloader. Sony are fanatically against modding communities on their products - I wouldn't be surprised if it's never broken.
All in all, if you've already got X10, and it's working fine for you - I wouldn't rush out and sell it. However, you can get better phones from more customer friendly manufacturers nowadays; I would NOT buy a new X10.

kitsVA said:
Some apps that makes X10 even better
1. ADW Launcher
2. CalWidget
3. Beautiful Widgets (Paid App)
4. Weather & Toggle Donate (paid). You don't need if u get Beautiful Widgets.
5. Switch Pro Widget (Paid app)
6. JustPictures (I use Smugmug so, it rocks)
7. MixZing Media Player
8. Data Counter widget (if you don't have unlimited data plan)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL, you've got pretty much same setup as me. I would just add
9)Penetrate 10)Wifi Analyzer 11)Handcent and replace 7) with bTunes

i think that you will have to choose between a good build quality and lack of software upgrades (SE) and moderate build quality but better software support (samsung). I would go with the first choice but there is little chance that the bootloader will be cracked so no custom ROM to compensate SE laziness.

consolation said:
1) SE is owned 50% by Sony and share lots of board members, marketing etc etc. It's for all intents and purposes a subsidiary company,
2) Yes, firmware updates that FAILED to address basic flaws in the phone, and would have been unnecessary if they rolled out 2.0, 2.1, and we should have 2.2 by now. Instead we are hoping that maybe we can get 2.1 - 6 months late. The phone is well made, no argument, not quite up to Apple standard, but definitely better built than other top tier androids.
SE won't learn if they treat customers like **** and we take it. I'm not sure that they can change their corporate mentality enough to make a difference. It's a massive multi-national, X10 is one of millions of other products ranging from bog rolls to rockets, they will never care as much about any individual product. HTC makes smart phones, they can't afford to get a bad rep, this is good for us, the customers. Even Apple have more at stake with the iPhone. I fear Samsung will head in SE's footsteps, but, I haven't heard much about them either way. Sony has a reputation for spreading their customers' butt cheeks and ramming **** in.
3) The 512MB RAM pre-req has been floated by a number of sources, it will give SE perfect excuse not to give us 3.0; almost like it's been planned...
Also, another reason to avoid SE, we had pretty little progress on hacking the bootloader. Sony are fanatically against modding communities on their products - I wouldn't be surprised if it's never broken.
All in all, if you've already got X10, and it's working fine for you - I wouldn't rush out and sell it. However, you can get better phones from more customer friendly manufacturers nowadays; I would NOT buy a new X10.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sorry but why the **** did you get a SE phone for in the first place? You seem to really hate SE down to the core and yet you support them by buying their products, seems very strange to me. And SE has been totally open from the beginning with the OS issue and you should very well have known what you purchased, if not, the only failer here is you and not SE. And just look at the magics they have worked on 1.6! The only real difference from 2.1 is a tidy bit slower kernel and no live wallpapers, appart from that SE really did transform 1.6 in a fantastic way and i high hopes for further releases.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App

Tjotte said:
I'm sorry but why the **** did you get a SE phone for in the first place? You seem to really hate SE down to the core and yet you support them by buying their products, seems very strange to me. And SE has been totally open from the beginning with the OS issue and you should very well have known what you purchased, if not, the only failer here is you and not SE. And just look at the magics they have worked on 1.6! The only real difference from 2.1 is a tidy bit slower kernel and no live wallpapers, appart from that SE really did transform 1.6 in a fantastic way and i high hopes for further releases.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's the 1.6 vs 2.1 difference:
http://developer.android.com/sdk/android-2.0-highlights.html
http://developer.android.com/sdk/android-2.1.html
Although, I agree with you that SE have made 1.6 a LOT better than the stock version.
And I think we'll get 2.2 at least because of this:
http://twitter.com/SonyEricssonUK/status/15260820648
But, when we'll get it, is the problem.

@CinCa0989
I would choose the Samsung Captivate if you want to play 3D games on your phone, due to its better gpu and multitouch capability.
I would also choose it if you want the latest software, whatever it is.
If you don't care about 3d games, multitouch or updates, get the X10.
Also, choose the X10, if you like taking pictures, and want better-looking videos. It will have 720p recording soon (by Q3 end), and an LED is better than no LED.

Tjotte said:
I'm sorry but why the **** did you get a SE phone for in the first place? You seem to really hate SE down to the core and yet you support them by buying their products, seems very strange to me. And SE has been totally open from the beginning with the OS issue and you should very well have known what you purchased, if not, the only failer here is you and not SE. And just look at the magics they have worked on 1.6! The only real difference from 2.1 is a tidy bit slower kernel and no live wallpapers, appart from that SE really did transform 1.6 in a fantastic way and i high hopes for further releases.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't apologise for SE, you sound like someone in an abusive relations who takes any scraps thrown at you as evidence of "love." He hits me 'cause he loves me... SE took people who paid for a premium phone for a ride, no excuses, premium products should come with premium support. I don't hate SE, they are big corp acting like big corps do, but I don't have to like getting shafted.
TBH, I got it for my GF who wanted a decent camera; she used it for a couple of weeks, said "what a piece of crap" and got an iPhone 4. Although her beef was more with the flea market, sorry, android marketplace and the OS rather than the hardware - well she had some pretty strong opinions on the lack of multitouch. Since I need an android phone for work, I ditched my MT3G and hanged on to the XPERIA. I actually think there's a great phone struggling to be set free in there; if we could get 2.2 & ditch all the Sony crapola we'd be rocking.

consolation said:
TBH, I got it for my GF who wanted a decent camera; she used it for a couple of weeks, said "what a piece of crap" and got an iPhone 4. Although her beef was more with the flea market, sorry, android marketplace and the OS rather than the hardware - well she had some pretty strong opinions on the lack of multitouch. Since I need an android phone for work, I ditched my MT3G and hanged on to the XPERIA. I actually think there's a great phone struggling to be set free in there; if we could get 2.2 & ditch all the Sony crapola we'd be rocking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey guys no need to be rude. The OP asked for personal opinion and not smart-ass answers .As far as "what a piece of crap" goes did you mean the camera is crap or the phone? In my opinion X10 has one of the best camera if not the best available in Android phones.

Yes the camera is as good as they get. My only issue is lack of mic levels so it's hard to record gigs without clipping.
-------------------------------------
Sent via the XDA Tapatalk App

I'll keep it short. I apologize for my previous post, not knowing another fellas background story. I'm just really tired of all the whining on pree release knowledge. I'm happy with my phone, prolly spent 15-20h gathering knowledge before purchase. Peace ppl, and i hope the OP will be happy with whatever choice he makes!
Sent from my X10i using XDA App

consolation said:
LOL, you've got pretty much same setup as me. I would just add
9)Penetrate 10)Wifi Analyzer 11)Handcent and replace 7) with bTunes
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How did I forget Handcent? Maybe I use it so much that I feel it's the default Messaging app. Need to check out how the default one is .

SE wants to become Android's largest handset maker...

I'm a big SE fan, but this somehow makes me smile....
www.businessweek.com/news/2010-09-0...e-world-s-largest-android-phone-supplier.html

Haha Darn! you beat me by a minute!

It'll be the Japanese market.. the X10 is more popular than air over there..!!!!

More like Android 1.6's largest handset maker

yeah and i want to become worlds greatest dictator

I wouldn't dismiss the idea that quickly. Here in Sweden SE is a very popular brand and by the looks of it they're popular in Japan as well. If they decide to go with Android on all their future phones and start marketing them more aggressively in the US they have a chance. They have the production capacity for it, they're well known and even if all models aren't fantastic there's no denying the build quality of their devices. Even though I've passed up SE phones because of their crappy software I've always been impressed by how well built and solid their phones feel.
With good marketing and if they get better at working on Android their chances are pretty good. They have the infrastructure to reach that goal, that goes a long way.

Yes, but you must agree that their android software department need to be improved in order to reach that goal...
Sent from my X10i using XDA App

mezo9090 said:
Yes, but you must agree that their android software department need to be improved in order to reach that goal...
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, but keep in mind that the X10 series is the first time SE has used it. I'd be more worried or surprised if there weren't any bumps in the road.
Just looking at the updates we've had so far they've improved a lot. Fixing the battery issue, improving the built-in software and so on.

ddewbofh said:
Agreed, but keep in mind that the X10 series is the first time SE has used it. I'd be more worried or surprised if there weren't any bumps in the road.
Just looking at the updates we've had so far they've improved a lot. Fixing the battery issue, improving the built-in software and so on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
dude its not about flaws in their software ... its about how they handle it ...
the incall volume is so ****ed up for a lot of people - when you talk to the customer support they tell you something like this "for me its okay - if you dont like it you can send your phone in" their official support form is full with topics about it ... same goes for the standby time ... it says 17 days on their homepage ... i asked customer support about it and he told me my phone must be damaged - i can send it in ... (he also said he gets 3 days of standy - i am pretty sure it doesnt even last 17 days when you turn it completely off^^)
i knew the support would suck ... but the hardware is quite good (besides from the lack of multitouch) - i just bought it coz i have faith in the community that they ll release custom roms soon

SE has released only one(3 version of same) android phone in the market in past 2 years when HTC has released atleast 4 or 5 and plus they are upto 2.2 on most of their phones. I don't think SE can catch to them any time soon just based ads showing Timescape

SE ship twie the number of phones as compared to HTC having come down from a stage where they shipped 6x more phones. So they are pretty capable as we all know. Now with Sony into the mix, SE phones would have PS3 compatibility, remote play, access to Sonys own online store, access to more Sony brands like VAIO, BRAVIA, etc. Well..

Sony has been associated with Ericsson for ages (from an IT time perspective) so one would think they'd at least be nipping at Nokia's heels by now. But who knows? Maybe Android will be the push they need to pump some much needed energy in to the brand? Time will tell, as long as they don't ditch Android I'll stay satisfied.

xGary said:
More like Android 1.6's largest handset maker
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
right 100%

Yeah that'll only happen if the secret owner of Sony Ericsson is Chuck Norris... cause only Chuck Norris can make that happen..! lol

They sure have the hardware capacity to get it done, but they are just so stupid and arrogant that I do not think it'll ever happen.
If they're serious, I'd swap in the current software department for some new blood.
It's really crazy how companies nowadays can't even get simple things done right.

As the old saying goes... "too many chiefs and not enough indians".
Until SE gets their act together and stops all the internal bickering and movement within the ranks, this will never be a realistic goal for them to achieve.

I think it's time we eased up on slamming SE. Since we don't actually know how the process works internally it's unpossible to tell if they're just lazy, they're still getting used to a new product line or any other unforeseen problem for that sake.
I intentionally refrain from calling them incompetent simply because my experiences with their products in the past has been great and I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt.

ddewbofh said:
I think it's time we eased up on slamming SE. Since we don't actually know how the process works internally it's unpossible to tell if they're just lazy, they're still getting used to a new product line or any other unforeseen problem for that sake.
I intentionally refrain from calling them incompetent simply because my experiences with their products in the past has been great and I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with your statement. We don't really know the reason. I read it in some post somewhere else that it's ready, but they want to test it thoroughly before releasing to the general public...

Whoever is responsible for being so slow to update, I somehow doubt that it's their developers. They are just doing what they are told by management. If Sonys developers are anything like other software devs I know they are not too happy with releasing their product with 1.6 instead of 2.1 or 2.2...

ddewbofh said:
...unpossible...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Impossimpable! (Hope someone gets it - HIMYM).
jk btw don't take badly

Are SE really all that bad?

I've only ever used mobile phones before.. Never been into the technology, so the whole firmware update thing never really concerned me too much..
Just read this on the htc legend forums..
brochs said:
I think you are missing the point here. HTC are VERY slow at releasing updates for their phones. If they cared about their customers just a little bit more, all 2010 models would have Android 2.2 now. And yes, we expect updates to be released. Could well bee that updatet products are of no interess for you, but for others that have experienced HTC for years now, we are starting to be tired of all the delays.
It's a shame HTC have no real competition, the day they do you can be sure customers will not accept this **** any more.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Suggests htc aren't really any better than SE!
So maybe things aren't so bad after all..
Sent from my x10 using XDA and swype.

Maybe its just that people love to hate. Still, we don't see htc missing deadlines do we..
Sent from my X10a using XDA App

SE is not bad, they can't keep up with their promise. This is not the first time as same thing happened with X1 and X2 as far as I experienced it myself. SE is awesome but it could be even better, way more!

The difference is that pretty much all(?) HTC's are running at least 2.1 at this point, and increasingly more are getting 2.2. Also, HTC spends more time working on their software than on locking down the phone, so most(all?) phones can be flashed with custom ROMs.
HTC owners are mad about being behind in firmware, and SE owners are just mad about being slightly further behind...

i think they make great phones(hardware) but there programmes and programmers(software) is just plain bad, when our great dev team get us custom roms we'll have great software to go with our great hardware!
Sent from my X10i using XDA App

Difference is that HTC are reasonably commited to providing up to date OS for their phones. Where as SE won't even commit to 2.2. We are over a year behind, HTC owners complain about being a month or two behind, HUGE difference. Additionally, HTC tend to have relatively easy to crack bootloaders or even provide unlocked bootloaders for some phones. Unlike SE, they don't invest time in perfecting the DRM and locking out the customer; same goldcard method has been available for years. They do JUST enough to cover their corporate butt, but don't go out of their way to stop you voiding your warranty. SE FOCUS on locking the customers out and retaining control of their hardware, PS/PSP made them very, very good at it; they are much better than Apple for example - put it this way, the iPhone is a more open device than our SE phones. I'm never buying another SE product again, in fact, the vineyard I work at was offerred a bunch of X10s by vodafone as upgrades for our staff; I made sure we went with iPhones instead. Ok, it was only six sales SE lost - but it made me feel a lot better. ;-)
ballubas said:
i think they make great phones(hardware) but there programmes and programmers(software) is just plain bad, when our great dev team get us custom roms we'll have great software to go with our great hardware!
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A) their programmers are actually very good, just that they are trying to stop us doing what we want.
B) The reality is, we may NEVER be able to get custom roms. There are formidable obstacles in our way and SE are very good at DRM. The dev community is very small compared to HTC, and miniscule compared to the number of people working on jailbreaking Apple's products

You do have a point.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App

YES SE MAKE ME ANGRY
SENT FROM MY CAVE using XDA App

Actually no, they are not bad at all. Just because they delayed an update doesnt make them bad. I had quite a few SE phones before this one and they were always amazing phones in their time like the w810 and k850i. SE phones are reliable and very well built with very good spec and features. I have always trusted SE phones and will continue to. A lot of the people here talk out of their ass, but just watch when SE come out with their next super device all those people that say never again im buying SE phone will be the first ones to get it. Its always like that. For a first android phone i think they did an amazing job. The phone is a machine, tough, stable, reliable with great spec and the best camera in the market. So my opinion is they are not bad at all.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App

The best camera?
I dont get the point Have you ever compare the picture captured by x10 with an HD2 one? I dont think we are having the best camera fone on the market (smart phone only).
I like the design of x10, i like its specs also, but i dont like the software (OS) and the way SE treat their customers.
And with 65k color, my screen cannot show a perfect color of an widget, such as Power Widget ( it's look like was shown on a cheap mobile screen). Haiz

dundun1701 said:
And with 65k color, my screen cannot show a perfect color of an widget, such as Power Widget ( it's look like was shown on a cheap mobile screen). Haiz
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why are you judging the screen quality based on a widget? Sometimes the graphics are of low quality. Try using SpringPad widget or Recodroid widget. They look perfect. ;-)

Seriously, half of you idiots actually realize this phone was announced september 09.
It was released like Jan or Feb. This phone is first targeting the Japanese audiences, not you americans nor europeans at first. I am pretty sure the japanese might have this phone a lot more early.
Now back to the point, why are you comparing to a phone that is already 1 years behind the competitiion. THIS is AN OLD PHONE.
Do you still get update on your w810 or whatever? NO, old phone don't update themselves. You either get a new phone to go with your little friends on their pursue for "greater numbers" or join Iphone community where no one will complain about thier OS.
Let SE does their own job, if you don't like the phone, for god saken, thrash it or sell it and do yourself a favor, buy a new phone. I am sick of reading thread every time i open this link to see more "SE sucks and such".
Are you guys like some 5 years old kids complaining about their toys not being the latest? Geez, get off the forum already.

From usability & build quality standpoint SE is not bad. The problem IMO is the x10 has a why the hell did they do that factor. Why the hell is SE taking so long to release 2.1? Why the hell is the 2.1 upgrade only supporting 65k colours instead of 16m? Why the hell did SE leave out MT hardware support? It doesn't matter if you find any of these features useful what does matter IMO is that SE's rivals have these features.

This is se's first android phone so they started with nothing. HTC's first androids were craptastic. But now that HTC have their software developed they can release 10 new phone a year and only have to adapt the software a little. Se will get better with their software it just takes time.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App

Thread Closed as its not helpful or informative in anyway

Sony ericsson likes the update game

we have been through a very harsh process of finally getting the 2.1 update on our phones, SE said to have another update on the UIX by december and now I have seen the multi touch working officialy by Rikard on the SE Blog, said by him to have it enabled by the next year Q1 with another update.
This looks like the guys over SE likes to keep their users kind of frustrated with future hopes of getting the phone better with updates, I'm starting to think that they see this like a game

ellokomen said:
we have been through a very harsh process of finally getting the 2.1 update on our phones, SE said to have another update on the UIX by december and now I have seen the multi touch working officialy by Rikard on the SE Blog, said by him to have it enabled by the next year Q1 with another update.
This looks like the guys over SE likes to keep their users kind of frustrated with future hopes of getting the phone better with updates, I'm starting to think that they see this like a game
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If they are updating the OS frequently it only shows how they care for their device and want it to be better in my opinion.
Why does it bother you if they are working on an update?
Sent from my X10i using XDA App

Versus the non-update game SE typically does?
I'm fine with them improving our phones. Bring it on SE!

Btw there isn't an update in December....that was pushed to "early 2011" and my guess is that multitouch will be included in that update

pngface said:
that was pushed to "early 2011"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the update comming out to SEUS 31/03-11 (The day before the 4. Quarter)

Maybe Sony Ericsson dont have lots os programmers, and they are not good enough to do the things before the others, the Android 1.6 are ver good costumized by SE, but there are things that needs to be programmed, like:
- Multitouch (driver)
- 16M colors (driver)
- Audio (actual driver is very bad)
- Android 2.2 (costumize and optimize to X10)

I would rather say that they have very good cryptographic team, because that is from what I can see, the best they have on their hardware.

The update in December is delayed to Q1, its the same as the one Rikard mentioned. However this will be another big update, not just enabling partial MT. Though the FW is set to launch in early January, so we should see alot of these new FW stuff at CES which I'll also be there

unknown13x said:
The update in December is delayed to Q1, its the same as the one Rikard mentioned. However this will be another big update, not just enabling partial MT. Though the FW is set to launch in early January, so we should see alot of these new FW stuff at CES which I'll also be there
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cool! Its been a while since we've heard from you
Any idea what the other features are? (*hint* - froyo ? )

Update game or not, im personally fine with it and I think it only shows SE cares about us and the device. They weren't going to implement multi touch but I think they chose to do so because of us the users. If you ask me I say bravo to SE and this might restore some faith into the SE bashers.....it could be a possible sign for froyo.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App

I can't help but laugh at all the haters who already sold their phones after reading this, i knew about the update but not that it would bring MT.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App

Tjotte said:
I can't help but laugh at all the haters who already sold their phones after reading this, i knew about the update but not that it would bring MT.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The X10 was, up to just recently, an incredibly crippled phone. Officially running 1.6 into the tenth month of 2010 is an embarrassment. I wouldn't laugh at anyone who decided to cut their losses and look for a better alternative.
The devs on XDA deserve a lot of credit for their perseverance. It is them that made this phone relevant again. Not SE's "brilliant engineers".

jayluke said:
The X10 was, up to just recently, an incredibly crippled phone. Officially running 1.6 into the tenth month of 2010 is an embarrassment. I wouldn't laugh at anyone who decided to cut their losses and look for a better alternative.
The devs on XDA deserve a lot of credit for their perseverance. It is them that made this phone relevant again. Not SE's "brilliant engineers".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Couldn't agree more about both points.
Personally I'm still very resentful towards SE and will not buy nor recommend any of their products for a least a couple years. The whole talking up THEIR "brilliant engineers" is just more bull**** and pisses me off, is that supposed to be a slap in the face to all the devs out there working to fix their mistakes? Why not tell us the truth about the hardware all along? Why cripple your phone with outdated buggy software and program it not to have multi-touch? What is the incentive there?
At least they're finally listening to all the negative feedback they've been getting, but still...a big part of me wanted to see the devs accomplish multi-touch and Froyo before SE.

Mr Patchy Patch said:
Update game or not, im personally fine with it and I think it only shows SE cares about us and the device. They weren't going to implement multi touch but I think they chose to do so because of us the users. If you ask me I say bravo to SE and this might restore some faith into the SE bashers.....it could be a possible sign for froyo.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They LIED about the MT since the beginning man. They said the screen was resistive and not capacitive and now they say "oh...we didn't realize it was capacitive. sorry!" Right they didn't...they do not know their own hardware they are developing for?
They do not care...they launched a phone with an outdated OS when 2.1 was already out and it took them 6 months to skin it and add in their branded goods. Now the X12 is going to be launched with 2.1 when 3.0 will be out upon its launch...see a trend here? I personally do not think they care and will never buy another SE phone. Pretty sure many feel the same...see the value of the X10's on eBay now? Dirt and yet the Nexus, older, is selling for $500+ still with the vanilla OS on it. What does that tell you? Function over fashion. Bring on the 2.2 ROM from Jerpelea & Z That will be the saving grace for me and allow me to keep this phone a bit longer. Pretty much every other newer Android phone out there has MT so this phone getting MT after almost a year really is not something to be excited over. Especially when it will only be enabled for surfing and Google maps!?

Udonitron said:
They LIED about the MT since the beginning man. They said the screen was resistive and not capacitive and now they say "oh...we didn't realize it was capacitive. sorry!" Right they didn't...they do not know their own hardware they are developing for?
They do not care...they launched a phone with an outdated OS when 2.1 was already out and it took them 6 months to skin it and add in their branded goods. Now the X12 is going to be launched with 2.1 when 3.0 will be out upon its launch...see a trend here? I personally do not think they care and will never buy another SE phone. Pretty sure many feel the same...see the value of the X10's on eBay now? Dirt and yet the Nexus, older, is selling for $500+ still with the vanilla OS on it. What does that tell you? Function over fashion. Bring on the 2.2 ROM from Jerpelea & Z That will be the saving grace for me and allow me to keep this phone a bit longer. Pretty much every other newer Android phone out there has MT so this phone getting MT after almost a year really is not something to be excited over. Especially when it will only be enabled for surfing and Google maps!?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's a lot of hate for SE, but as long as they try to improve the SE experience for those with SE phones, I'm happy. Could they be doing better? Just enabling MT for the X10 is so much more than what they have done in the past. Maybe it's because I had a Nokia as my last phone that I'm happy with any substantial improvement in the OS, haha.
I forgot where I read it, but the turnaround time from new OS to handset is roughly 4 months (it used to be nearly 12 months). Froyo (2.2) came out in May and it's only been in the last couple months where handsets have been getting 2.2. The exception is the N1, but then again, that was sold as a phone for enthusiasts (and pretty much what they're using to test it on). When Gingerbread (2.3) comes out, you can expect at least another 4 months before it gets pushed OTA (besides the N1 and the NS). As they learn Android, I'm sure they'll be faster in issuing updates. Motorola was (and sometimes is) pretty slow in pushing updates for their phones but now they're cranking it out.
In regards to multi-touch... Did they ever say resistive? They were up front when they said it wasn't going to have MT. Yeah, but I agree they should have had it on the X10 in the first place. The N1 didn't have MT at first and they were quick to add it. Nexus One's MT is the same as the future X10 MT. They both are designed for pinch to zoom applications, its a limitation found in the hardware. Games will work but it will have the same multi-touch limitations as the N1. And of course - phones that have just come out have better multitouch... they're newer phones based on newer chipsets which use newer technologies.

I dont get the big idea about MT, its not a big thing, hardly use it on my wildfire.
In regards to the x10 launched with 1.6 for me it was running better than any other device with 2.1 on there. Touch wood but ive never had any problems apart from the in ear volume. So what if the value has dropped. Its the sentimental value that counts.
I praise the devs for their hardwork. Also SE...however i will say Rikard and SE need to get off their fat arses and stop delaying everything.
Sent from my HTC Wildfire using XDA App

rvictorg said:
Couldn't agree more about both points.
Personally I'm still very resentful towards SE and will not buy nor recommend any of their products for a least a couple years. The whole talking up THEIR "brilliant engineers" is just more bull**** and pisses me off, is that supposed to be a slap in the face to all the devs out there working to fix their mistakes? Why not tell us the truth about the hardware all along? Why cripple your phone with outdated buggy software and program it not to have multi-touch? What is the incentive there?
At least they're finally listening to all the negative feedback they've been getting, but still...a big part of me wanted to see the devs accomplish multi-touch and Froyo before SE.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i think ur taking it too far man...personally i think 1.6 was pretty good and after i updated to 2.1 i was very pleased. the updating was easy and i easily restored my contacts using the default backup and restore app
the battery life on the x10 is incredible, consitently get about 2 full days of regular usage(surfing net before classes, a little talking, some txting and listening to 1-2 hrs of music everyday). while my friend with the iphone 4 complains about terrible battery and dropped calls(he has a case too!)
the phone looks very nice and feels solid, the software isn't "buggy" i haven't had any problems with it at all(no root or anything btw). and the 2.1 version is soo smooth and looks very nice compared to say a stock android 2.1. people complain about mediascape and timescape, but personally i love them timescape doesn't use too much cpu if u disable the services (like txt, email, fb, etc) and mediascape is miles ahead of android in media playing ability.
and just to remind you, those engineers are working very hard, remember they have to develop the software for the phone from scratch and optimize every bit of it, and yes the developers here do a lot of work, but they just have to fix what the engineers messed up or modify some files, and with thousands of lines of code, its easy to mess up somewhere. im a chemical engineering major right now, and i dont know anything about computers, but in general engineers are very bright people and probably know what they are doing better than what we do.

though im not a se fanboy (this is my first se product and might be my last) some people need to tone it down. stop ranting against se like theyre the antichrist. this is my first android phone so i was still amazed with my phone even with 1.6. (android 1.6 is waaaaay better than ios 3.0) and after flashing to 2.1 my phone is enough to make my friends agree that my x10 is better than one of our friend's iphone 4 (i wouldnt be so sure of that but when they see me multitasking with widgets, live wallpaper, H connection what evr the hell that is, and removeable parts like batteries, memory, sim, etc. its hard to disagree) i will admit the x10 is nerfed by se but if you wanted a phone that focused more on android rather than custom software you should have done your research. i knew from the begining that my phone was an "android" but with se's "timescape and mediascape" ontop of "1.6" which is outdated. i also read that mt wasnt available and most likely wouldnt be. these are the things that piss people off yet these are the things you always see in online reviews, the research isnt hard. i knew what i was reading before i even knew what the terms fully meant. luckily we have devs to help fix these problems, but as i said earlier once i can upgrade i doubt ill get a se phone again (unless that psphone turns out to be real and stable, that thing looks sweet)
Sent from my X10a using XDA App

one think we should thank to the updates is that the price of the device that had dropped very down, maybe getting up right now.
so we have:
android 2.1,
1ghz,
4 inches
and
MT coming soon.
Try to catch a phone with those features with less than 360 bucks on ebay, only the X10.
I was thinking to getting the droid 2 GSM when it comes out, but now I really like my phone with those new things.
And the upcoming android 2.2 will be very welcome among us
SE works hard to make their devices with a pleasant experience, just like apple do with their iphones that have the best out-of-the-box experience among smartphone. even if Sony doesn't have the best state of the art technology on the world of android, we cannot deny that the UI has been carefully finished.
and btw, the x10 with 2.1 is among the best battery life GSM android phones right now, just ask someone who owns a Evo 4G about battery life and you will get it
Note: the H up there means HSDPA, which is commonly known as 3.5G for internet access, sometimes it will go to 3G again because of low signal or very congested network

I love the update game and hope it continues since it feels like I have a new phone every time a big update comes out. I find it incredible that people complain about SE keeping the promise they made to support the phone for 2 years.

An interesting observation - SE using cat-string theory as its main business practice

i am a business management student...so i thought of sharing my perspective over how Sony Ericsson is playing the smartphone game...
by exagerrating a lot before the product launch ...and after the launch..giving small doses of updates so customers dont change phone in the hope of getting new features.
think of it..
they build great hype for a product months before the launch by strong advertising (probably spending more on ads than R&D itself) , promising a revolutionary interface with ground breaking custom interfaces....X panels for X1 (remember?) and timescape/mediascape (biggest garbage) for X10 ..both over-ambitious
just so they can differentiate from other companies..
ya they have great product design.. which initially attracts impulse buyers...they build anticipation...so we cant wait to get our hands on their phone!
and then they finally launch the product which will NEVER have the latest updates because their entire focus was on marketing the product i.e bringing it to market before competition and capturing market share.
they never really focussed on industry shaking R&D like Apple..c'mon without Apple, touchscreen was a dead market.
and without Android...Apple had a monopoly.
This is revolution....not timescape or mediascape..which are my least favourite apps...battery sucking with extremely slow response rates.
then they ll keep launching small small updates over couple of months...more like over a year...adding little features..so we dont change brand loyalty....giving the wounded customers a faint vision of hope...
finally they release a small update and the entire community goes 'wow' with excitement...like a virgin getting his first blowjob.
by that time..the phone has suffered scratches, has started showing signs of wear..which means very low re-sale value.
and meanwhile announcement for newer model is made...slimmer, sexier with more bugs which will be fixed via update over the next upcoming year.
good strategy for a short-term profit making....but they are losing brand loyalty.
i am not gonna buy SE Xperia Arc...ya its the sexiest phone on the market.
but its like a hot model u bang and can never have a healthy relationship with...coz she is dumb and full of flaws on the inside...such as daddy issues etc.
/rant
its like they keep us jumping over small small updates like a cat does to a string which the master will never let it catch.

but its like a hot model u bang and can never have a healthy relationship with...coz she is dumb and full of flaws on the inside...such as daddy issues etc.
epic comment
well it's true and from your perspective which one is better?
i know getting a big income is the main focus of any company but hey customers loyalty also counts. it's something i hate from sony in general, they keep pushing new tech every year and let the customer to feel outdated

Epic thread.
Sent from my GT-P1000 using XDA App

Couldn't have said it better myself, spot on mate!
Swyped from my ZDZ Froyo X10i

bang on, while i am happy with my x10 as it was my first droid comming from a long **** list of wm devices, i am also not going to be sticking with se, already contemplating the droid 2 global, yes se makes sexy phones but, im looking for something a little more with my next device.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App

Funny thread
so what do you think about HTC's strategy with Desire ( Desire/HD/Z )
Just because they released a better handset after a year of the previous handset's release it doesn't mean that they do not care about brand loyalty...
so what? you want them to stick with the X10 for two years while other competitors advance with technology????
believe it or not, many will buy the ARC, even more that who bought the X10...
Next time, go buy an HTC or Motorola
and by the way, Samsung is locking their bootloader so do not buy a Samsung android so you won't end up whining like many here about unlocking it, unless you like samsung
but despite all that, I would like to thank you for the effort made by you to explain what many of us are not aware of.. it's a good practice for your uni
good luck mate with your studies

Nocturnal310 said:
i am a business management student...so i thought of sharing my perspective over how Sony Ericsson is playing the smartphone game...
by exagerrating a lot before the product launch ...and after the launch..giving small doses of updates so customers dont change phone in the hope of getting new features.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I wish you luck with the business management, since your management of the English language makes me want to punch babies in the stomach.
Also, replace "Sony Ericsson" with every technology company ever and you have a point.
/thread

iead1 said:
Well, I wish you luck with the business management, since your management of the English language makes me want to punch babies in the stomach.
Also, replace "Sony Ericsson" with every technology company ever and you have a point.
/thread
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Grammar and syntax of the English language is not the point of XDA in MHO...
Very well written, kudos to you Nocturnal310...

@Nocturnal310:
Of course you're right. But as someone said before, you could say this about any company producing technical stuff and you would be right as well. (I expect some very negative comments on what I'm about to say...). I understand your point, but I just don't think that SE is somehow different in their approach from any other company producing consumer goods (is that right? stuff which are bought in great numbers just to be replaced by newer models...you know, we have to watch out for our English, right iead1? ). Thats quite important because we just can't expect infinite support for our product, because sooner or later (the former is more probable) it will get replaced with brand new model with brand new stuff inside making it lot more attractive. The only thing we can complain about is, that the support may have last longer... thats true. But despite all of that, I'm still not changing the brand loyalty as I just dont know what else should I buy next time. I dont like Apple and their iStuff, also don't like HTCs because of how they look. Samsung is an option, but if I should choose between Samsung and SE just by looking at the phones, SE would definitely win (and with Samsung locking their bootloaders as well, I wouldn't help myself much by buying it). You may call me a hardcore fan of SE who doesn't think about what he's buying, but thats not me. I just think that X10 was an unfortunate mistake (which I personally still love!) of SE and I really hope they will learn from it for the reasons mentioned above.
Thats my opinion and I do not force anyone to share it, but I wanted to say it, because I just don't uderstand all that poeople saying how betrayed they feel by SE.

i think SE`s problem is that they don`t really know what they do,at least so far.
they use UIQ for a while then they leave it.
they use win mo,but after x1 and x2 they desided to go for android.
but now Android is very good platform and they should find their way.i hope so.
their main mistake is that they don`t care about customers and the weak points of their products.

I must add my mustard ...
There was a time long ago, Sony Ericsson created really nice phones with a solid build quality. My x10 is 3 weeks old and is making crazy noises when twisted a bit. The whole frame is not stiff enough.
If I saw it right on arc video presentations at youtube, the crappy timescape is now a widget and it is still choppy. This uggly blue is still there. Why blue? SE colors are Green and Orange. What a bunch of stupid designers ... I think w'll have a lot of alternatives out there with lesser crappy UI-Mods.

Well, I agree with most of your points, but let's remember: they're not ceasing support, they're launching a new model and planningto lock x10 customers in outdated Android. Motorola intended to do that too, but customers did such a big buzz that they changed their minds. The bull**** about low performance on Android 2.2 is already discarded, we can see that on all the unofficially built ROMs available at xda-forums. I risk to say that even Google has his part on this entire drama. Obviously, Sony Ericsson and their UXP loaded with much more processing hunger than x10 can support is the one we should blame, because we chose to buy SE, not Google devices (which are HTC, actually ). The removal of MediaScape from Arc tells us that they know where the problem is. Let's hope they fix this "problem" on x10 too.
I truly hope no one takes my comments personally, since I'm just expressing my opinion as a SE consumer. I still like them, but not how they use my money.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App

Apple Iphone 3G is still getting latest updates - same day as the latest iPhone 4, not ALL the features because it's got old hardware but there aware of that.
SE should be aware of it to, yes x10 can run 2.1 2.2, 2.3 ect so they should. There opinion is why there not updating. (why not the majority, the users decide)
Why can't we get hardware based updates? HTC magic/hero got tons of updates..
Yes new models will come out, but it's the same OS to update, not that much off a difference, our devs do there work in spare time and takes 2-3 weeks to come up with ASOP OS, (which is what i prefer anyway). Imagine an entire DEV team full time? yes it takes more time for testing ect but still.....
At least SE have reconized they F'd up. that's the first step!

robbyf66 said:
At least SE have reconized they F'd up. that's the first step!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They say a lot. Saying and doing are not the same.

moacyrfilho said:
The removal of MediaScape from Arc tells us that they know where the problem is. Let's hope they fix this "problem" on x10 too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think they removed the mediascape app because it was so hard to new people to find the music player and photo gallery.
just think about it:
you have a new phone, and you would like to play some music, you first go to the music player but you can't find it because there is no music icon on the menu
Grab a samsung phone and try to play some music, the player is called "Music", the video player is "Videos" and the gallery is "Gallery"

robbyf66 said:
Apple Iphone 3G is still getting latest updates - same day as the latest iPhone 4, not ALL the features because it's got old hardware but there aware of that.
SE should be aware of it to, yes x10 can run 2.1 2.2, 2.3 ect so they should. There opinion is why there not updating. (why not the majority, the users decide)
Why can't we get hardware based updates? HTC magic/hero got tons of updates..
Yes new models will come out, but it's the same OS to update, not that much off a difference, our devs do there work in spare time and takes 2-3 weeks to come up with ASOP OS, (which is what i prefer anyway). Imagine an entire DEV team full time? yes it takes more time for testing ect but still.....
At least SE have reconized they F'd up. that's the first step!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are comparing with 2 companies with different calibers.
Apple - every designer/ad agency/design house/design school in this world purchase their 'godly' machines for work purposes. And these macs don't come cheap, mind you. With that amount of revenue, they can afford to create an iPhone, using their 'lagless' (yeah, right) macintosh reputations to breed a colony of iZombies to support their cause.
With the iZombies having the need to own a iAmagodlyproduct, with such supporters pumping money into their pockets, they can afford to offset any losses by being nice to
Update old iPhones even if new models are out, cos they know iZombies are already impressed with them playing the nice card and that they are confident that with their good reputation and a better new phone out, A majority of iZombies who have too much money to spare will still buy it. They are just giving an aww-I understand-you-can't-afford-a-new-phone-yet-so-I-will-update-you-periodically-so-that-you-will-come-back-to-me-when-you-have-money message to the poorer parties.
Now for Sony Ericsson (or just insert any other brand names). Let me ask you. Though they are an established brand, but let me ask you, how many people will own 1 of those expensive TVs or VAIOS? Comparing with Apple, no competition.
They don't have that much extra revenue to play nice. They can only strategize and try to earn as such as possible before their products become obsolete.
It's just like people like Donald Trump, who has so much money to play with, he can just give away to some random person on the street if he wants to. But if you try doing up a business yourself, would you give away your money to charity organizations, knowing that you cannot afford to spend the money that way? Most probably not. Unless you don't mind closing down your business due to losses.

All these threads are getting sooooooo repetitive!!! There should be one big sticky for anyone who wants to ***** and complain in any way shape and form about SE. That way this form isn't flooded with every thread turning into a SE bashing thread. It really is getting tiring logging on to see what's new and the first 50 threads are people *****in about SE.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App

Lonelee - agree with much of what you say.. but it is also true that there are many many many people who go back time and time again to buy the next apple product BECAUSE they know that Apple will not leave the OS lagging behind on the old device when a new one comes out.. it's spectacularly good brand loyalty. SE (and many other) are taking a very short term view, and a missing a great opportunity to get us all on the hook for the next product..
In the UK for example, many phones bought on contract are free with a 2 yr contract tie in.. so if I know that they will look after me for 2 years, then I'll go back for more.. my contract's not due until Feb 2012.. so I'm eagerly awaiting to see their behaviour over the next 12 months!

well I m back on XDA after exiting from blackberry platform...blackberry provided me a stable messaging device for a while but as needs changed, it was very poor for browsing and getting work with attachments done.
i was at a party few weeks ago and my friend took out his Xperia Z claiming this is the best camera phone.
to his disappointment, it was the darkest blurriest pic i have seen whereas my lumia 920 took a pic with DSLR-like clarity and image characteristics.
i am not sure how much sony has improved but seems like they are still a market follower and using marketing dollars to brag about their phones that do not perform as advertised.
after having wasted my student savings on 2 of their phones, I regret and wish I had bought a better phone for my first android experience.

product lifecycle
Hi,
I am not sure if I should blame any company for moving to newer (and maybe better) products. In the android phone market we have the nearly unique situation to be able to get our hands and minds at the software which is driving the product, at least partly.
This is quite different from cars or coffeemakers.
What I would like to from Sony is that when they decide to abandon a product (eg X10), they open up the sources of drivers etc, so that interested people can maintain their products for themselves.
I can understand that they wont open up the sources for current products.
A.