Database Users

Same processor as iPhone4G!

Just a curiosity: Apple uses exactly the same processor as the Galaxy S in the newest iPhone!

Indeed. The processor was jointly developed by Samsung and Intrinsity (who was later acquired by Apple). So in some ways you get the power of an iPhone 4 with the freedom of Android. Sounds like a win to me.

Except we have a better GPU than the A4. SGX 540 compared to the SGX535.

Yes the samsung has the sgx540 which is twice as fast as the 53x series but the A4 has vxd375 piggybacked, so i dont know if that will have an impact, maybe on the video capabilities of the a4.

......and a bigger screen!

....and we have XDA Developers ^^

iPhone 4 Killer
We all most probably (being on xda) see the android OS as far superior to what is now called the iOS4, for many reasons such as;
- True multitasking
- FULL customization (after 3 years finally being able to change wallpapers is a joke)
- Wide variety of free + good quality apps
- MUCH greater out of the box functionality (they have to 'jailbreak' to do anything useful)
But the iPhone 3gs' spec has been ahead of all android phones so far, even with its slower proccessor it had the advantage of doing 1 proccess at a time to ease the work load, and a VERY high quality GPU compared to the adreno GPU's build into the qualcomm proccessor. However finally someone has developed a android phone with amazing hardware, although unfortunatly samsung, this is deffinitly the phone to show the iPhone users what android is capable of, and for that reason alone i will buy it .

bratfink said:
We all most probably (being on xda) see the android OS as far superior to what is now called the iOS4, for many reasons such as;
- True multitasking
- FULL customization (after 3 years finally being able to change wallpapers is a joke)
- Wide variety of free + good quality apps
- MUCH greater out of the box functionality (they have to 'jailbreak' to do anything useful)
But the iPhone 3gs' spec has been ahead of all android phones so far, even with its slower proccessor it had the advantage of doing 1 proccess at a time to ease the work load, and a VERY high quality GPU compared to the adreno GPU's build into the qualcomm proccessor. However finally someone has developed a android phone with amazing hardware, although unfortunatly samsung, this is deffinitly the phone to show the iPhone users what android is capable of, and for that reason alone i will buy it .
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Totally agree... THANKS!!!!

A4 is only copy of Samsung Hummingbird
release date of Hummingbird : jule 2009
release date of A4: january 2010
A4 have "only" PowerVR 535 gpu, Hummingbird have 2-3x better PowerVR 540

bratfink said:
We all most probably (being on xda) see the android OS as far superior to what is now called the iOS4, for many reasons such as;
- True multitasking
- FULL customization (after 3 years finally being able to change wallpapers is a joke)
- Wide variety of free + good quality apps
- MUCH greater out of the box functionality (they have to 'jailbreak' to do anything useful)
But the iPhone 3gs' spec has been ahead of all android phones so far, even with its slower proccessor it had the advantage of doing 1 proccess at a time to ease the work load, and a VERY high quality GPU compared to the adreno GPU's build into the qualcomm proccessor. However finally someone has developed a android phone with amazing hardware, although unfortunatly samsung, this is deffinitly the phone to show the iPhone users what android is capable of, and for that reason alone i will buy it .
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Click to collapse
Amen to that

not that i'd want to, but i wonder if we'll see iOS hacked on the galaxy s at some point. android has already been hacked onto the iphone.

the A4 has a slightly smaller Level 2 Cache than our processor in the galaxy s...
A4: 512KB L2-Cache
Samsung: 640KB L2-Cache

Does it really matter? The iPhone 4 is going to be smoother to use no matter what.
Pre-ordered a Galaxy S today btw. Have grown tired of WM and my HD2. Still it won't be released before July here so there's still some waiting to be done.

Ben74 said:
not that i'd want to, but i wonder if we'll see iOS hacked on the galaxy s at some point. android has already been hacked onto the iphone.
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Click to collapse
it´s impossible because iOS is closed system with driver for only narrow hardware
android is open source with many drivers for many hardware, it´s similar port it to any phone

512MB SLC Nand, [ (256+128)MB LPDDR + 128MB Nand ] OneNand + 16GB Movinand

Can anyone who has done i9000 teardown confirm if this analysis is correct?
512MB SLC Nand, and (384MB LPDDR [2 piece 166Mhz Mobile DDR] + 128 MB Nand) OneNand, all packaged on a MPC with the PowerVr+Hummingbird core.
Then a 16GB piece MoviNand (samsung's version of MLC based eMMC), all manufactured by samsung.
If it's right, then all the galaxy s phones (i9000(m), vibrant, captivate.. etc) only have 512MB of true fast Nand rom, could be the cause of the lag issues.
Although I don't have a teardown of the Fascinate and Epic, I'd assume they are the same as the GSM versions, with the exception of a 1GB/2GB MLC nand replacing the 16GB MoviNand (ie. they have only 512MB SLC Nand too).
Samsung is very smart when it comes to lowering the BoM and ip costs in building this high spec android phone.
By comparison, SE Xperia X10 has a 2x512MB (1GB total) fast Micron SLC Nand rom, 3 piece 384MB of LPDDR (166Mhz, x16*2+x32) higher bandwidth than i9000's. Nand + Ram made by Micron (which makes superior ic's compared to samsung).
HD2, and Sprint Evo 4G all have the same MCP made by Hynix; Google Nexus One and Htc desire share a MCP made by samsung, even though they have different specified Ram amounts (512MB vs 576MB), could be caused by the different allocations of available OneNand?
It is very likely, that the minimum requirement for Android 3.o is not 512MB ram, but 512MB rom, (Android, like Maemo, is very good at memory management). I'd say that the Sony Ericsson Xperia X10 is actually more "future proof" than the i9000, and the HTC phones released so far.

I'm curious too. I thought this phone had 512MB of RAM...
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

As described in the lag fix topics! is that they are not using slow nand but the filesystem is causing the lag!

Out of curiosity, what does your nickname stand for.. Sony Ericsson MC? There is a blog I noticed called SEMC.. I only ask because it clearly creates a conflict of interest for you to decide between both devices fairly.
NAND imho is considered to be flash, not RAM. Samsung officially said that they had 512MB RAM, and they seem to consider NAND to be flash too. In the case this unit didn't have 512MB LPDDR, it would mean they lied during the announcement: http://www.samsung.com/ph/news/newsRead.do?news_seq=19925&gltype=globalnews , as the OneNAND/MoviNand site differentiates between flash and RAM too. I have emailed them though to ask specifically.
In regards to Micron vs Samsung RAM quality, to be honest, when working at an apple reseller, we didn't really have trouble with either. Both are fine, and Apple themselves went through various types of RAM (including Hynix and Samsung). We didn't notice any serious issues with either. Perhaps there is a difference when overclocking, but I hardly imagine anyone will use the phones after overclocking them much (although, someone already overclocked theirs to 1.6GHZ). Overclocking eats up battery life...
You forget that the i9000 has a MUCH faster GPU (90million triangles vs the X10 one), 802.11n, BT3 and REAL multitouch (if the SE gets multitouch, it will be a shonky hack with serious flaws that make it unusable for anything but pinching gestures). Where did you get your teardown specs from? Anyway, the truth of the matter, is that it depends what you need to do. But in almost any synthetic benchmark at the moment (not that they matter), Galaxy S is ahead.
It doesn't matter how great the X10 is anyway, because by the time it gets 2.1, Android 3 will probably be out. In fact, knowing Sony Ericson, you'll be lucky to get 2.2 (used to own a K750i, which was a W800 with crippled software, thanks Sony Ericcson). Honestly, Android 1.6 is close-to-ancient, and no developer is going to seriously buy a phone which runs such an old version of Android still (2.0, possibly, 2.1 yeah ok, 2.2... YAAAAAA).
So theoretically, maybe (I haven't seen the proof myself though). But, in reality, I'd expect the Galaxy S to have a longer useful timespan.. The X10 was announced 9 months ago. Google coded at least 2 major versions of Android within that time (and performed full QA too). So, the X10 is certainly NOT a phone I'd recommend. Whether or not it supports it, it is unlikely Sony ericsson will port Android 3 to it. They still haven't even ported Android 2.x to it yet, and it is their flagship Android mobile phone. And the X10 likely never attracted the kind of people who will port Android 3 by themselves, because they are also the kind of people who were unimpressed with the version of Android it shipped with.

Oh, and by the way, the lag likely isn't because of the RAM. There seems to be other factors at play (bad scheduling for instance would explain why GPS also goes funky sometimes, music skips at the beginning using doubletwist and the lag).

I think the OP was just using the Xperia for illustrative purposes. No one who has used both units will make a qualitative comparison between the X10 and the Galaxy S, which is in a different league.
Ultimately, it was not just Android 1.6 that made me sell my X10, but its horrible call quality, low 384Mb RAM (not so good for Gingerbread, which SE might never release anyway), and mediocre touch sensors that did it. It's a shame because with some tweaks, the X10 could have been spectacular. I do love its external design, 854x480 res., and excellent camera.

andrewluecke said:
(although, someone already overclocked theirs to 1.6GHZ). Overclocking eats up battery life...
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Source? I read that the cpu is capable of going to 1.6ghz, but I haven't read anyone actually OC to 1.6ghz.

In Canada, the retail prices between the Galaxy S ($500) and the Xperia 10 ($550) are actually laughable. Rogers and SE will have to do a BIG price drop ASAP.

INeedYourHelp said:
Source? I read that the cpu is capable of going to 1.6ghz, but I haven't read anyone actually OC to 1.6ghz.
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You are correct.. Must have read the headline from Reddit or something dodgy.
Also, I don't think the poster is using the Xperia X10 as an example, because he posted the same message, but also on the Xperia X10 board.. By the sounds of things, he could be working on an article (in which case he should probably pull the phones apart himself), or it sounds a tad like marketing. Or possibly neither...

Here is interesting reading: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=752617

Saying that the X10 is ahead of the SGS is plain wrong, that device it self has NO support for multi-touch and wont be getting one anytime soon.

SEMC said:
Can anyone who has done i9000 teardown confirm if this analysis is correct?
512MB SLC Nand, and (384MB LPDDR [2 piece 166Mhz Mobile DDR] + 128 MB Nand) OneNand, all packaged on a MPC with the PowerVr+Hummingbird core.
Then a 16GB piece MoviNand (samsung's version of MLC based eMMC), all manufactured by samsung.
If it's right, then all the galaxy s phones (i9000(m), vibrant, captivate.. etc) only have 512MB of true fast Nand rom, could be the cause of the lag issues.
Although I don't have a teardown of the Fascinate and Epic, I'd assume they are the same as the GSM versions, with the exception of a 1GB/2GB MLC nand replacing the 16GB MoviNand (ie. they have only 512MB SLC Nand too).
Samsung is very smart when it comes to lowering the BoM and ip costs in building this high spec android phone.
By comparison, SE Xperia X10 has a 2x512MB (1GB total) fast Micron SLC Nand rom, 3 piece 384MB of LPDDR (166Mhz, x16*2+x32) higher bandwidth than i9000's. Nand + Ram made by Micron (which makes superior ic's compared to samsung).
HD2, and Sprint Evo 4G all have the same MCP made by Hynix; Google Nexus One and Htc desire share a MCP made by samsung, even though they have different specified Ram amounts (512MB vs 576MB), could be caused by the different allocations of available OneNand?
It is very likely, that the minimum requirement for Android 3.o is not 512MB ram, but 512MB rom, (Android, like Maemo, is very good at memory management). I'd say that the Sony Ericsson Xperia X10 is actually more "future proof" than the i9000, and the HTC phones released so far.
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Click to collapse
Sorry to thread necro, but I'm from the Samsung Epic 4G forums and just ran across your thread because it was linked in an RFS vs EXT4 debate that's been raging for the last week or so.
I believe that you're close in your hardware analysis, the Galaxy S phones have 384 MB of LPDDR (I theorized DDR-400) but I believe instead of 128 MB of NAND, it's actually 128 MB of OneDRAM, which is a Samsung high-speed hybrid memory solution. I've seen teardowns that described a mystery NAND module and I'm pretty sure the OneDRAM is it.
Anyhow, here's my thread about it: I think it's likely that the I9000 uses more or less the same RAM configuration.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=886793

Sorry for bringing this up but it is the only revelant thread to my question..Along with the SGS I also have a Desire HD.I noticed in quadrant (I know it doesn't count but I'm just being curious) that in memory benchmark the SGS scores about 1800 points while the DHD 1000-1100..Assuming they're both equipped with LPDDR1 memory modules, what favours the SGS to have better performance?

G-2 vs Milestone 2

I know this might be a touchy topic to start, but I was seriously considering the Milestone 2 before the G-2 was announced. And when I heard that the G2 wasn't even 1GHz, I was pretty set on the Milestone 2. Then the benchmarks came out: http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2010/09/graphics-benchmark-for-g2-shows-it-should-be-blazin/
so now I am super confused.
Milestone 2 - Pros:
1GHz processor (if the Milestone can be OCed to 1GHz, who know what the Milestone2 could be OCed to?!)
Umm....that's all I think
Milestone 2 - Cons:
Locked bootloader (what does this mean exactly? no custom ROMs?)
MotoBLOATware (means slower Android updates)
Same camera as Milestone 1 (seriously...)
Motorola
G-2 - Pros:
HTC
Stock Android
Faster Android updates
Supposed to be good for Android Gingerbread as well
No locked bootloader (more custom ROMs?)
Not Motorola
G-2 - Cons:
800MHz Processor
Didn't perform as well as Droid 2 in stock benchmark tests
Less internal memory (4Gb vs 8Gb) - not a big deal I guess
Hinge design probably means it's easier to break
Does anybody think that the development for the G-2 would be larger than the Milestone 2? Because that would be a huge Pro for the G-2. The G-1 development has lasted for years, and the user base is huge...so I am just going to assume that it would be similar for the G-2.
I'm not going to mention aethetics, because this is very subjective so no point arguing on that front.
So here's my question: Which one should I get?!

Hmm, tough one really.
HTC Camera's are not much better than the ones motorola sticks in them to be honest! The droid has crapware on it and the HTC comes with stock sense.
It seems the processor performance is near identical, in real world application use atleast so thats a non-issue i.e. when one beomces outdated, so will the other.
In terms of mod community, the HTC phone is likely to get much more support on this website, simply because the majority of people here are HTC users or past HTC users.
The Milestone seems a bit more manly, rough and the HTC looks more refined IMHO.
Personally, I'd go the G2 if I wanted as much modding as possible. HTC has a much more open policy on the topic and no locked bootloaders (efuse etc).
At the end of the day, its your decision
Have a play with both phones and pick the one you feel looks better. A good question to ask is:
I know they both look nice now, but which one will look worse for wear (paint peeling, scratching etc)

yeah, I was leaning a little more towards the G-2 due to the massive potential of modding/custom ROMs available. And i'm also quite sure that the G-2 will become the new platform for development, much like the G-1 was.
The 800MHz still bugs me though...considering that Qualcomm has new chipsets that are supposed to be able to go up to 1.2/3GHz whilst also running a GPU chip. I wouldn't wait until dual-cores because apparently that won't happen until next year (probably late next year).
HTC are supposed to be doing a pretty major announcement in London on the 15th September (so we'll hear about it on the 16th)...so hopefully that might shed some light on it. Of course, if the G-2 is the only QWERTY option, then that would probably limit our choices.
...if only they had made that a 1GHz processor...

I wouldnt rate the 1ghz feature that highly. Perhaps 800 mhz is an underclock to enhance battery life. After all, the benchmarks say performance is on par with the top phones.

99.9999% guaranteed that you'll be able to overclock the G2 to at least 1ghz

IMO the onlything that the M2 has over the G2 is how far u can OC the processor. those A8's can go far.

I dunno. clock speed is overrated. you don't know what performs better in the real world until you see some benchmarks.

That's true. Apperantly I read that a 800mhz Droid 1 performs on par with a n1. The a8 can be oc to all hell.
I definately am a fan of TI chips. They are mighty strong and it always seemed that they always had a leg up on qualcomm. I hope qualcomm stomps everyone with some massive processor that'll make the hummingbird cry

The g2 is under-clocked according to the press release.

Mylenthes said:
The g2 is under-clocked according to the press release.
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Click to collapse
I heard. At the end of the day a underclocked processor that runs as fast as a snapdragon and wastes less power is a win in my book!

I have read that the ARM procs are better with GPUs and for overclocking - just look at the Milestone 1. The Droid 2 was still benchmarked as the best (but only just over the G-2) and it's potential for OCing was what swayed me that way.
But now that these new Qualcomm chipsets have a separate GPU that seem to be able to compete with the best in benchmarking - it's hard to say.
If the G-2 can be OCed, then that would be awesome...but then, the Milestone 2 is also about 99% sure to be OCed...as I'm sure previous Milestone 1 owners will be screaming for it as soon as they get their hands on the new one.

skulk3r said:
I have read that the ARM procs are better with GPUs and for overclocking - just look at the Milestone 1. The Droid 2 was still benchmarked as the best (but only just over the G-2) and it's potential for OCing was what swayed me that way.
But now that these new Qualcomm chipsets have a separate GPU that seem to be able to compete with the best in benchmarking - it's hard to say.
If the G-2 can be OCed, then that would be awesome...but then, the Milestone 2 is also about 99% sure to be OCed...as I'm sure previous Milestone 1 owners will be screaming for it as soon as they get their hands on the new one.
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Click to collapse
Im confused. I thought the nexus had a seperate gpu?

sheek360 said:
Im confused. I thought the nexus had a seperate gpu?
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Click to collapse
as far as I know, it does, but either the GPU isn't fully utilized in the use of Android or it's just a underpowered - just see the benchmarking results on the previous page that I posted, the Milestone 2 and G-2 smoke the N1 (which is expected, since the N1 is much older)

skulk3r said:
I know this might be a touchy topic to start, but I was seriously considering the Milestone 2 before the G-2 was announced. And when I heard that the G2 wasn't even 1GHz, I was pretty set on the Milestone 2. Then the benchmarks came out: http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2010/09/graphics-benchmark-for-g2-shows-it-should-be-blazin/
so now I am super confused.
Milestone 2 - Pros:
1GHz processor (if the Milestone can be OCed to 1GHz, who know what the Milestone2 could be OCed to?!)
Umm....that's all I think
Milestone 2 - Cons:
Locked bootloader (what does this mean exactly? no custom ROMs?)
MotoBLOATware (means slower Android updates)
Same camera as Milestone 1 (seriously...)
Motorola
G-2 - Pros:
HTC
Stock Android
Faster Android updates
Supposed to be good for Android Gingerbread as well
No locked bootloader (more custom ROMs?)
Not Motorola
G-2 - Cons:
800MHz Processor
Didn't perform as well as Droid 2 in stock benchmark tests
Less internal memory (4Gb vs 8Gb) - not a big deal I guess
Hinge design probably means it's easier to break
Does anybody think that the development for the G-2 would be larger than the Milestone 2? Because that would be a huge Pro for the G-2. The G-1 development has lasted for years, and the user base is huge...so I am just going to assume that it would be similar for the G-2.
I'm not going to mention aethetics, because this is very subjective so no point arguing on that front.
So here's my question: Which one should I get?!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well If I made the list I would make it more like this:
Droid 2
Pro's:
-More high res screen (854*480 vs 800*480, both on a 3.7" screen)
-8 Gigs internal storage (4 gb more than G2)
-1 Ghz TI 45nm processor (likely to overclock fairly well)
-1 oz lighter
Con's:
-MotoCRAP software (look at the scrolling on any phone with blur from the cliq to droid x and tell me it doesn't feel slow)
-keyboard lacking comparing it to the G2
-locked bootloader (harder to develop roms for, root still possible though)
-CDMA (yeah it sucks.... that's why noone outside the US uses it...)
G2
Pro's:
-Better screen (S-TFT lcd vs regular lcd on the droid/2; brighter, more contrast, better power consumption)
-720P camcoder at 30FPS
-Adreno205 GPU(4X better graphics than previous snapdragons)
-800 Mhz MSM7230 45nm (this shows it was designed to run at 1 Ghz, but underclocked to save battery. Similar to the MSM7201A on the G1, designed for 528 Mhz but only runs at 385 Mhz unmodified; should at least be overclockable to 1.13 or more)
-better keyboard (WWW.\.COM BUTTON? HELL YEAH!)
-HSPA+ (who doesn't want 14 MB/s DL?)
-GSM (gsm is always better....)
-likely to receive updates rapidly (no promises though, look at the 3 months it took motorola to update to 2.1 on their "google experience" device)
-New sturdy Z-hinge design
Con's:
-ummm.......
Yeah so what if the droid 2 gets an extra 3 frames (58 vs 61)... Your eye can only detect 50FPS unless you're a combat pilot or a sniper with trained eyesight. Besides that both phone's have pretty identical specs, including 512 mb ram, 2.2, 10 hrs talk time, etc. My vote is definately towards the g2, but don't get me wrong both are beasts of a phone. Also I wouldn't expect to see any dual core's until maybe next summer. Think about it: Qualcomm released the original snapdragon in Nov 2008, but it wasn't until Dec 2009 that a phone implemented it (LG Expo). The dual core qualcomm chips come out next month, so it should be 6 months-a year before they come out.

mejorguille said:
Well If I made the list I would make it more like this:
Droid 2
Pro's:
-More high res screen (854*480 vs 800*480, both on a 3.7" screen)
-8 Gigs internal storage (4 gb more than G2)
-1 Ghz TI 45nm processor (likely to overclock fairly well)
-1 oz lighter
Con's:
-MotoCRAP software (look at the scrolling on any phone with blur from the cliq to droid x and tell me it doesn't feel slow)
-keyboard lacking comparing it to the G2
-locked bootloader (harder to develop roms for, root still possible though)
-CDMA (yeah it sucks.... that's why noone outside the US uses it...)
G2
Pro's:
-Better screen (S-TFT lcd vs regular lcd on the droid/2; brighter, more contrast, better power consumption)
-720P camcoder at 30FPS
-Adreno205 GPU(4X better graphics than previous snapdragons)
-800 Mhz MSM7230 45nm (this shows it was designed to run at 1 Ghz, but underclocked to save battery. Similar to the MSM7201A on the G1, designed for 528 Mhz but only runs at 385 Mhz unmodified; should at least be overclockable to 1.13 or more)
-better keyboard (WWW.\.COM BUTTON? HELL YEAH!)
-HSPA+ (who doesn't want 14 MB/s DL?)
-GSM (gsm is always better....)
-likely to receive updates rapidly (no promises though, look at the 3 months it took motorola to update to 2.1 on their "google experience" device)
-New sturdy Z-hinge design
Con's:
-ummm.......
Yeah so what if the droid 2 gets an extra 3 frames (58 vs 61)... Your eye can only detect 50FPS unless you're a combat pilot or a sniper with trained eyesight. Besides that both phone's have pretty identical specs, including 512 mb ram, 2.2, 10 hrs talk time, etc. My vote is definately towards the g2, but don't get me wrong both are beasts of a phone. Also I wouldn't expect to see any dual core's until maybe next summer. Think about it: Qualcomm released the original snapdragon in Nov 2008, but it wasn't until Dec 2009 that a phone implemented it (LG Expo). The dual core qualcomm chips come out next month, so it should be 6 months-a year before they come out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well technically the Milestone 2 is a GSM device, not CDMA, but the other points are quite good.
However, don't forget that the Milestone 2 can also OC...so the two are comparable in that sense.

Didn't I read somewhere that Android doesn't yet support hardware acceleration for it's UI? Meaning that that spiffy new GPU will only get used in games/video, etc? I'm no expert on this - perhaps someone could chip in and explain...
I too am facing the same decision soon. I love my Desire, but I will never buy a keyboardless phone again, and will chop it in for one of these two as soon as I can.
I was leaning more towards the Milestone 2 as it looks badass in my opinion, and there is no major difference in the specs. That was til I read up about locked bootloaders, and the fact that Milestone 1 owners are still on Android 2.1 and Motorola just doesn't give a sh*t about the numerous bugs the phone has.
Just a quick search around forums/Facebook Motorola Europe page etc, shows how unhappy Milestone 1 owners are with Motorola. Page after page of people saying "I will NEVER buy Motorola again" and literally begging Motorola to unlock the bootloader before abandoning the phone (all met with a deafening silence from Motorola) does turn me off of the Milestone 2. Motorola won't fix the phone and won't give their customers the tools to fix it themselves, so as far as I'm concerned I'm not going to spend £400-500 to put myself in that same position with the Milestone 2.
On the HTC side of things, they do make attempts to stop people modding their phones, but have not yet gone as far as locking the bootloader, and every HTC phone has been compromised. I fully expect this to be the case with the G2/Desire Z (Desire Z - what a sh*t name!), and the phone WILL get a lot of dev support, no question.
Ultimately, I believe there is no choice for me: pain with Motorola, or fun with HTC/XDA devs!
I'm still not sure about the hinge action, nor do I like the looks of the G2 particularly, I think it's going to turn out to be a bit of a fat chunker! Still, I go for personality and functionality in my phone rather than looks, otherwise I'd have an iPhone! It's also a crying shame that HTC went with a 4 row rather than 5 row keyboard.... And one final request please HTC - make sure that screen is full multitouch please! Oh, and I have heard this bad-boy is going to have stock Android with HTC Sense widgets - that's all well and good, but what I'm interested in is the Sense Dialer. And the Sense browser text selection please - I want that available everywhere on the phone, please!

Uh oh - just read the G2 has just 1300maH battery.
HTC, what is this twattery? I don't want to go backwards with battery size! Yes I know, more efficient processor, blah blah, lower clock speed, yadda yadda - but I don't give a monkey's!
A smaller battery in a bigger handset than the original Desire is not good enough in my mind. The G2 is going to be a brick anyway - why not add 5mm to the length and give us an extra 200-300maH? Or perhaps if you'd used a more standard slider action then you could've fitted a beefier battery in there :-(

setspeed said:
Didn't I read somewhere that Android doesn't yet support hardware acceleration for it's UI? Meaning that that spiffy new GPU will only get used in games/video, etc? I'm no expert on this - perhaps someone could chip in and explain...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's true, but the next version Android Gingerbread adds it, which is where handsets with weaker gpus will begin to struggle. Running AOSP means that it will get updates at the same speed of the Nexus one.
However, the Clove spec for the Desire Z has it as a Sense device. This is backed up with the earlier screenshot of the Desire Z with the default sense wallpaper, and the name (why would they give it Desire branding if it didn't have Sense?). So there's a chance they'll put in the 8X55 which is the 1ghz of the same processor, but doesn't support HSPA+ (which isn't in the UK). So we'd gain 200mhz in return for Sense and an uglier handset colour scheme.
UK HTC event is tomorrow, so we should find out then.

Adreno205 GPU, 4X better graphics than previous snapdragons.
I think it's the only one that has hardware accelerated Adobe Flash support.
I remember seeing Milestone 2 and other android phones reviews, reviewers said phone would literally crawl when browsing flash enabled websites.
So maybe that feature will make a big difference?
I think I've decided: G2

setspeed said:
Didn't I read somewhere that Android doesn't yet support hardware acceleration for it's UI? Meaning that that spiffy new GPU will only get used in games/video, etc? I'm no expert on this - perhaps someone could chip in and explain...
I too am facing the same decision soon. I love my Desire, but I will never buy a keyboardless phone again, and will chop it in for one of these two as soon as I can.
I was leaning more towards the Milestone 2 as it looks badass in my opinion, and there is no major difference in the specs. That was til I read up about locked bootloaders, and the fact that Milestone 1 owners are still on Android 2.1 and Motorola just doesn't give a sh*t about the numerous bugs the phone has.
Just a quick search around forums/Facebook Motorola Europe page etc, shows how unhappy Milestone 1 owners are with Motorola. Page after page of people saying "I will NEVER buy Motorola again" and literally begging Motorola to unlock the bootloader before abandoning the phone (all met with a deafening silence from Motorola) does turn me off of the Milestone 2. Motorola won't fix the phone and won't give their customers the tools to fix it themselves, so as far as I'm concerned I'm not going to spend £400-500 to put myself in that same position with the Milestone 2.
On the HTC side of things, they do make attempts to stop people modding their phones, but have not yet gone as far as locking the bootloader, and every HTC phone has been compromised. I fully expect this to be the case with the G2/Desire Z (Desire Z - what a sh*t name!), and the phone WILL get a lot of dev support, no question.
Ultimately, I believe there is no choice for me: pain with Motorola, or fun with HTC/XDA devs!
I'm still not sure about the hinge action, nor do I like the looks of the G2 particularly, I think it's going to turn out to be a bit of a fat chunker! Still, I go for personality and functionality in my phone rather than looks, otherwise I'd have an iPhone! It's also a crying shame that HTC went with a 4 row rather than 5 row keyboard.... And one final request please HTC - make sure that screen is full multitouch please! Oh, and I have heard this bad-boy is going to have stock Android with HTC Sense widgets - that's all well and good, but what I'm interested in is the Sense Dialer. And the Sense browser text selection please - I want that available everywhere on the phone, please!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
waiting to see what new things HTC has "dreamt" up for their announcement of the 15th (in London)...but I don't expect things to be any different than what we know now.
yes, the battery is a crying shame, but tbh I charge my phone every night ever since I got my blackstone...and I also have a car charger...but it would still be nice to have a phone that would last more than 2 days.
I'm not sure I fully understand the bootloader stuff...I've seen youtube videos of people running something called a "Bugless Beast" ROM on an OCed Milestone 1....but I agree, Motorola are pretty bad with customer service and post-sales support. HTC, on the other hand, are pretty happy to turn a blind eye to the modding community - as all Android manufacturers should..since Android is technically an opensource platform.
Oh..also...I don't really care about the name Desire Z, lol.....just a name. They could call it "The Loser Phone" and I'd still probably get it

[Q]QSD8250 chipset - How bad is it?

According to Microsoft QSD8250 is the chipset. Now how bad is it? I see people are saying it'd be better than HD2 since it'll have the perfect drivers from MS, but still wonder how this compare with the phone I am planning to get, Captivate, or an iPhone 4.
What prompted MS to choose this over so many newer (and possibly better) options?

rexian said:
What prompted MS to choose this over so many newer (and possibly better) options?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My guess: WP7 has been in development for quite some time, so at the start of development they choose the top processor that was available. But I think that this forum focuses to much on the processor and specifications, because in the end, the whole package must be convincing and that includes the operating system that has been optimized for this processor.
Furthermore, the current specifications will be the lowest common denominator for quiet some time (perhaps until WP8) and all apps will be optimized to run satisfactory on this specification (AFAIK the 20 second start-up rule for apps will be measured with the current specification). Newer processors may speed some things up, but the current hardware will be the target platform...

The development must have started before this chipset was launched, but you are right - this was most likely the target platform.
There are not many 3D games available though, the basic working will be fluid I know when I check at the store in few days. My worries are about the 3D games that will be launched later. If the experience with those is not as good as other platforms, MS will be in trouble. Better hardware will fix the issue in future but the reputation will be ruined and be stuck for a while.

Captivate is more powerful, mainly due to its GPU being about 4 times more powerful than the qsd8250s adreno200 gpu. Though, all WP7 devices will have better looking games since Captivate runs android... And everyone knows android games look crap, no matter how how powerful the hardware is (due to devs having to make their devices run on low end hardware to get more sales)
The IP4 is a better comparison because it's hardware and software have been fully engineered to run along each other, very much like WP7 devices. While it does have a more powerful GPU compared with the QSD, there wouldn't be much difference; the adreno 200 pushes about 22million triangles per sec, where as the sgx535 pushes about 28million triangles per sec. Whether developers even use all those polygons, I'm not sure I've seen.
Though epic citadel on iOS as well as this upcoming game called Aralon sure looks good.
Aralon link: http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2010/10/oh-man-aralon-for-ios-is-gonna-be-good/

Thanks Cruzer. Now it makes sense. 22 mil vs 28 mil is not a big difference. Were they running at the same clock-speed? I hear A4 processor in iPhone 4 runs at ~800MHz, so may be they both perform in a similar manner.

Not sure how much the GPU is affected by the CPU. I think it's more to do about the speed of the actual GPU, but don't take me on that quote lol.

I have a Captivate and an iPhone 4. Im getting rid of both of them to get a HD7 or Focus. The iphone works flawlessly and isnt buggy in the slightest bit, the captivate is very choppy and i couldnt take it after a while with the lagging even after i upgraded to froyo. I would go with wp7 to be different and because it looks fun even if it uses an older processor. The hummingbird and A4 are both top of the line and its going to be hard to compete especially with each having a different os.
Writing this from my iphone 4

Xperia Arc

Xperia Arc is the latest smartphone by Sony Ericsson that runs Android 2.3 Gingerbread with a custom skin, a 1GHz processor, 4.2” Reality display with Sony Mobile BRAVIA® Engine and an 8MP camera. I will definitely buy it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

antonymilo said:
Xperia Arc is the latest smartphone by Sony Ericsson that runs Android 2.3 Gingerbread with a custom skin, a 1GHz processor, 4.2” Reality display with Sony Mobile BRAVIA® Engine and an 8MP camera. I will definitely buy it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is the design and the Mobile BRAVIA Engine isn't it?

rajasyaitan said:
It is the design and the Mobile BRAVIA Engine isn't it?
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Click to collapse
Didn't you hear? Just adding "_____ ENGINE" to any phone will guarantee the clueless consumers will buy in masses!!
Unfortunately, it comes with a single-core CPU.

And they took the sensor from the Cybershot. Won't be out until April though.

It was about time for a 1GHz
Anyway I still faithful to HTC

Sony will be a lot left behind with those specs to be able to compete this year with other phone manufactures because other manufactures will offer dual-cored procs.
1GHz Procs? 512MB?...hey...my Desire already has those specs (with older hardwares of course).
The word "BRAVIA-ENGINE" alone will not be able to withstand the dual-core waves.
My next smartphone will have:
Dual-cored proc
independent graphic proc
1GB RAM
at least 1.5GB internal memory
SD Card slot
HDMI output
USB connnection
Most important: latest available Android version
(No tablets for me)
Currently, I am drooling over the Motorola ATRIX...but wanna wait untill all manufactures has been distributing those dual-cores smarties.

rajasyaitan said:
It is the design and the Mobile BRAVIA Engine isn't it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lude219 said:
Didn't you hear? Just adding "_____ ENGINE" to any phone will guarantee the clueless consumers will buy in masses!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
kinda like seeing a huge rear wing and fart can exhaust on a '98 acura integra

How much will be Xperia Arc ?

aaa said:
independent graphic proc
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You might have to wait a while on that. It will be a LONG time before AMD or NVIDIA release graphics card for mobile phones. Everything else seems fairly reasonable though.
The Xperia Arc does use the newer snapdragon chips so that is a plus in my book.

aaa said:
Most important: latest available Android version
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This...If there is anything I learned from owning an X10 is that updates are slow and Sony Ericsson locks down the phone tighter than a nun's...Well you know where I'm going with that.

...
If the arc had a dual core cpu the combination of the cpu and the screen would make the battary discharge in half an hour.
Always judge a product from the whole and the final output rather than an individual characteristic. So it has been fully optimize the software, then a single core processor can be much better than a dual core on a cell that has to lift a buggy operating system. See the benchmark http://www.gsmarena.com/showpic.php...on-xperia-arc/preview/sshots/gsmarena_025.jpg and you will understand.
So the overall performance is what counts. If the mobile is scrolling comfortable as we care what processor time? Just to say 'look I have dual core cpu on my mobile'?.The psp has a single core 333mz and it can ran better than any smart phone.the OS is the key!
And because we get around, do not say that anything is 1Ghz!Did we say things that we have the best (on paper) and lose the substance. As a tear drops because Arc has 8Mpx camera and not 12. If you tell them that it is better than the previous 8Mp and the 12mp they would not understand.Rather prefer to buy a desktop pc if i look for the 1gb ram the 2 core cpu...And all because we have put in one meaningless match, the first megapixel now with ghz processor and mb of Ram.
FRIENDLY

i forgot to say tha 2.4 ginger http://static.techspot.com/fileshost/newspics3/2010/android_24_leaked.jpg
and 3.0 honeycomp would be official http://blog.dialaphone.co.uk/2011/0...-honeycomb-doesnt-need-a-dual-core-processor/
the other phones i think that the would released with the froyo 2.2 not 2.3 ginger. so if you buy the dual core cpu phones you have to wait 2-3 months for the ginger if u preffer the arc you would update in 2-3 months to 2.4 or 3.0...your choice....

That's sounds all nice and good but you're forgetting an important factor. When was the last time Sony Ericsson put out a smart phone on time?
I think you're going to be waiting a lot longer than you think.

as u say it will take some time..thanks for that!
we must wait!also this is not the final edition of the phone...

antonymilo said:
If the arc had a dual core cpu the combination of the cpu and the screen would make the battary discharge in half an hour.
Always judge a product from the whole and the final output rather than an individual characteristic. So it has been fully optimize the software, then a single core processor can be much better than a dual core on a cell that has to lift a buggy operating system. See the benchmark http://www.gsmarena.com/showpic.php...on-xperia-arc/preview/sshots/gsmarena_025.jpg and you will understand.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What does that benchmark proves? That a 2nd generation CPU is better than a 1st generation? Have you even seen the benchmark for dual core (think +2200 and up)? Did you know dual cores have just as good of a power management as a single core? Did you know the matrix 4G has a 1930mah battery and can last 10hrs of talk time even on 3G while still having a 10mm waistline?
I'm not gonna lie, the design of the Arc is downright amazing (undoubtedly best one out of CES), but other than that, I'd be stupid of purchasing one when there are much better phones out there.

Like i sayed before if the mobile is scrolling comfortable as we care what processor time? Just to say 'look I have dual core cpu on my mobile'?.The psp has a single core 333mz and it can ran better than any smart phone.The design plus the camera plus the screen plus the gin 2.3 and the confirmiration of the 3.0 honeycomp made me take the decision to buy that.the MES is in february so we must wait to take the final decision. Although the Htc Thunderbolt is a very good choce(hightech phone)!The cpu MSM8960 1.2 dual and adreno 3000 would be awesome!but i don't like design.It's like all the htc devices....

This is SE we're talking about, so it's laughable that you're even talking about OS update. Remember what happen in the past? I'm sure people who have X1, X2 and X10 do...
Yes, you should care about processing time. The less time it takes to carry out an instruction/start/run a progam, the least amount of drainage on the battery (equating to less heat generated by the CPU). Scrolling would probably be 2x smoother on a dual core compare to the 2nd gen single core.
Here's an analogy, what's more tiring to your body? Flying in 1st class from the UK to Italy or driving from UK to Italy? Technology is no different. The less time you spend doing any task, the more time you have doing other stuff and the less exhaustive the phone is.

I think u are right!i have a x1 and i know how annoying is that the other phones have the 6.5 and me the 6.1 win mo.But the xda developers have done their trick so i am not afraid about the updates!!!!!!!

canadariot2312 said:
And they took the sensor from the Cybershot. Won't be out until April though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
April, hell !
If that's true, that would be bad...
Sent from my X10i using Tapatalk

I have to extend my contract here in Holland between April 19 and June 19. I pre ordered one at my local phone shop. i can sell it for good money right away on the internet for sure and buy myself a decent phone if i don't like it, but damn it looks great, i have to find out for myself what it is like....
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