Database Users

"FAIL"-phone slower than other phones? Despite Snapdragon?

Looks like HTC has done it again and delivered a phone that should run crazy fast on paper BUT the actual performance is sub-par compared to other phones:
HTC Nexus One (FAILphone):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvzxZ8tOBcQ
HTC Magic and HTC Liquid Benchmark:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O36LA6EhZg4

I don't think that Neocore benchmarks the entire system, maybe more on the graphics chip. I don't know any specifics on the N1's graphics capabilities, but the 1 ghz snapdragon cpu is a definite boost from its predecessors.

Do you work for Apple?

How does it do on PiBenchmark? That would provide more relevant results with its Snapdragon processor.

andythefan said:
I don't think that Neocore benchmarks the entire system, maybe more on the graphics chip. I don't know any specifics on the N1's graphics capabilities, but the 1 ghz snapdragon cpu is a definite boost from its predecessors.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
doesn't the liquid come with an underclocked snapdragon?

I have a Magic that is rooted and tweaked to all hell and have played with the nexus. There is no doubt that the Google phone out performs any other phone that HTC has released. Ive seen it first hand. Its very fast and can handle so many things going on at the same time it makes my tummy tickle.

You are an idiot. Get your panties out of a bunch because you are pissed at the price and that it has no AT&T 3G. Should we all be pissed that the Droid only works on Verizon? Should we all be pissed that the iPhone only has AT&T 3G? The Nexus One is designed to be on T-Mobile. Sure, it will technically work on any GSM provider, but that isn't what it was intended to do. Google must have some deal with T-Mobile since they offers the most android phones.
And about the performance, that only shows video performance, and we dont know for sure what the N1 and A1 have in terms of a GPU

staulkor said:
And about the performance, that only shows video performance, and we dont know for sure what the N1 and A1 have in terms of a GPU
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Click to collapse
I thought neocore tested the graphics chip with 3d benchamarking?

andythefan said:
I don't think that Neocore benchmarks the entire system, maybe more on the graphics chip. I don't know any specifics on the N1's graphics capabilities, but the 1 ghz snapdragon cpu is a definite boost from its predecessors.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's called system on a chip.
and the telling comparison is the Acer Liquid with its ~750MHz Snapdragon CPU (underclocked) vs. the Nexus One with its 1GHz Snapdragon CPU.
Looks like HTC screwed up again.
Ohhh. The other posters are pissed because their Messiah phone is a big FAIL?

What are you, 15 years old? Get off of mommy's computer and stop *****ing because you can't use the N1 on your network and get 3G.

Im guessing the benchmark isnt accurate. It goes beyond common senese that the fps are the same as the magic.

Maedhros said:
Im guessing the benchmark isnt accurate. It goes beyond common senese that the fps are the same as the magic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually ... it goes nicely with HTC's track record of under-performing hardware.

We have too many variables that makes comparing these results difficult. The HTC Magic and Liquid are running 1.6, while the Nexus is running 2.1. There are dramatically different levels of overhead on different Android system versions. There could be way more overhead on Android 2.1 than on 1.6. Additionally, you forgot to mention that the Nexus One is running at a resolution 2.5 times that of the HTC Magic.
Just because you're not going to buy the Nexus (because you recently purchased another handset and are trying to justify your purchase, or because it doesn't support your carrier's 3G frequencies, or otherwise) doesn't mean you are obliged to spam these forums with "OMG THIS PHONE IS FAIL"

the resolution used on the n1 is far higher than on the older devices remember

coolVariable said:
It's called system on a chip.
and the telling comparison is the Acer Liquid with its ~750MHz Snapdragon CPU (underclocked) vs. the Nexus One with its 1GHz Snapdragon CPU.
Looks like HTC screwed up again.
Ohhh. The other posters are pissed because their Messiah phone is a big FAIL?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only FAIL here are your posts. You sound like a Droid owner, pissed that your phone is about to lose top dog status. Just crawl back into your parents basement, fire up your xbox, and shoot some 12 year olds. It will help you get over the fact that you are a huge FAIL.

lol @semantics now thats funny man

I have had this phone for three weeks now and one thing its not is SLOW. Its way faster than my 3GS and my Mytouch.

I got 27.4 FPS on my G1.
I'm pretty sure the N1 isn't slower then the G1. That would be stupid.

I don't give a damn, I'm buying this joint day 1!! LOL

my theory:
1. Neocore is designed to work with android 1.6 and Open GL ES 1.1
2. The Liquid A1 has the same processor (albeit underclocked) and the same screen resolution as the N1 so you would expect them to perform similarliy. They dont perfrom the same so you must look at the differences between the phones. The biggest to me is the fact that the Liquid A1 has Android 1.6 and Open GL ES 1.1, the sweet spot for Neocore.
3. The N1 had Android 2.1 and Open GL ES 2.0, specs that are not supported by Neocore. How can Neocore accurately test the N1 when it does not support its specifications? The slowness is not due to poor hardware, rather it is due to old software trying to run on the latest hardware.

My research into Galaxy line

I posted this in the EPIC forum, but think it's useful here too. I've been a long time phone hacker and recently came over to the HTC EVO which i'll be returning soon.
My vast researching has told me that the Droid X is the fastest phone to come out in the next 30 days. But for those that can't get to Verizon like me, here's my breakdown of research on all galaxy phones and the pro's and cons of the carriers.
I have a formatted file, but unfortunately forum rules seem to forbid html, so here is my text conversion.
<edit> i will use your comments to update this file. <edit>
=-=-=-=-Tmobile Vibrant:=-=-=-=-=
PROS
----
-1st to release (15th?)
-Cheapest to possibly own. Buy the contract phone for $199, opt out, pay the ETF for $200. For $200 more than contract you'll have it out right and can join Tmobile's contract free plan for $59 (all inclusive). For Highest use of data and text, this is the plan to get.
-built in memory for storage of 16GIG
-High speed internet capable (4G speeds)
-ETF of just $200
-Most similar to stock (may reduce update times) - Pika007
CONS
----
-no flash camera
-no front camera
=-=-=-=-ATT captivate:=-=-=-=-=
PROS
----
-ATT plan is most flexible. Can pick and choose from $15 data plan if necessary. $5 text for 200 msgs if you don't use that alot. If high street use is not critical, brings costs equal to tmobile or even the cheapest overall if you have a corporate discount which ATT regularly gives.
-same hardware pros and cons as tmobile vibrant version
CONS
-----
--Same negatives as Tmobile.
--can be expensive if highest use is needed.
--ATT network is pretty bad. been an iphone customer for years and it does suck.
--ETF of $325
=-=-=-=-Verizon Fascinate:=-=-=-=-=
PROS
----
-Network typically has high corporate discounts (i have %25 off). with discounts can become one of the cheaper plans.
-Best network overall in quality of calls.
-Hardware : Has flash camera, 1 gig more internal storage than similar EPIC.
-No keyboard can be a positive is size and weight is an issue.
CONS
-----
-Verizon plan can be the most expensive
-Droid X possibly has better hardware. It has equal video and most likely faster TI processor. Bigger screen too if you liked the EVO.
-Family plans suck.
-ETF of $350 (premium phone)
=-=-=-=-Sprint EPIC:=-=-=-=-=
PROS
----
-Sprint typically has corporate discounts (25% here)
-EPIC is the most feature rich of the samsung family.
-Keyboard
-Sprint plans usually include Sprint TV, which is nice.
-ETF of $200
-best family plans in costs, if you want all smartphones.
-Very fast data from what i can tell on my EVO. But i came from ATT.
-30 day guarantee
-Only phone to have the LED for notification and charging -mccune
CONS
-----
-if you don't have a discount, plans will be the most expensive. Sprint will charge $10 a month for having a 4G phone even if you don't live in 4G area.
-Sprint coverage is so-so in many cities
-Big phone, thick and heavier than the rest.
-smallest amount of built in storage (1 GIG)

I think the Vibrant is the most cost-effective, and being the most similar to the korean M110s and the worldwide-spread i9000 is a plus point for "coocked" content.
Also, i have to comment-
"-Droid X possibly has better hardware. It has equal video and most likely faster TI processor. Bigger screen too if you liked the EVO."
Well, no.
The Droid X uses a TI OMAP 3640 (series 3) processor clocked at 1GHZ.
From a processor standpoint, it's head-to-head with samsung's hummingbird.
From the graphics standpoint- the TI OMAP 3XXX series uses a PowerVR SGX530, just like the original motorola droid, only this time it's clocked at 200mhz and not 118.
The hummingbird in the Galaxy S uses PowerVR SGX540, which is more than twice as strong than the 530.
TI implemented the SGX540 in their soon-to-be OMAP4XXX series.
The only thing the droid x has and the galaxy s doesn't is an ISP, which except for benchmarks or apps that use several thousands of animations at the same time (i'd like to see something like that) only saves some battery when using 2D apps, since it doesn't fire up the more power-hungry GPU.

Thanks for taking the time to post this info. However, I just had to comment on the $10.00 Sprint charge. That charge gives you unlimited data on not only 4G but 3G as well. Data is not truly unlimited on Sprint unless you have a plan (Evo currently) with that required $10.00 fee.
Also I have an Evo that I'm returning and I'm just wondering why you're returning yours?

I'm returning the EVO, because it's out-dated already. After the sammy's and the droid x, it will be the 5th in Android. All in less than a month.
But that's not all, I hate the battery life. I have to drag the power cable with me everywhere. If i don't charge it overnight, it will be 50% charged by morning and will die at some point during my work hours.
The interface is slow, and not crazy about the heavy HTC sense. Iphone spoiled me. All video games on this are horrible. Aspalt, guitar hero, and motoxmayhem are nearly unplayable.

Quadrant again?
People are really ought to stop using that as a general "who is better" test, and just pick specific details from it.
It takes too many factors and mushes them into a single "final score"
One of these factors is independant 2D acceleration, which in you get a BIG ROUND ZERO if your device doesn't have an ISP. It impacts on the final result greatly, while in real life, it doesn't really matter.
Also, i really don't like that article ("hummingbird vs. snapdragon"). The writer is not basing on anything, and is making a mountain of speculations.
Bottom line:
The TI OMAP3640 CPU is an Arm Cortex [email protected] with tweaks by TI, made in 45nm.
The Hummingbird CPU is an Arm Cortex [email protected] with tweaks by samsung, 45nm.
The differences between those two is almost null.
The Droid X uses SGX530 at stock frequency (200mhz)
The Galaxy S uses SGX540 at stock frequency, or higher. Not yet known.
Both devices use 512MB LP DDR2.
You can see the differences clearly, and untill we won't have specific benches for every part of those system, we won't be able to compare properly.
About the CPU, the current best way to compare is run Linpack on both devices. Measure pure raw processing power (output @ mflops)
Edit- Oh, hey, there are already linpack results.
http://www.greenecomputing.com/apps/linpack/linpack-by-device/
You can see some real surface droid X results. Avaraging at ~8.35 mflops.
I just downloaded Linpack to my SGS, avaraging at ~8.58mflops.
Like i said, the difference is null.

Pika007 said:
THE TRUTH
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you!
It's painful seeing those silly benchmarks (also outdated).
Droid X and SGS are both great devices that will not disappoint (except for certain SGS users who are hell-bent on making their SGS seem like trash).

Pika007 said:
Quadrant again?
People are really ought to stop using that as a general "who is better" test, and just pick specific details from it.
It takes too many factors and mushes them into a single "final score"
One of these factors is independant 2D acceleration, which in you get a BIG ROUND ZERO if your device doesn't have an ISP. It impacts on the final result greatly, while in real life, it doesn't really matter.
Also, i really don't like that article ("hummingbird vs. snapdragon"). The writer is not basing on anything, and is making a mountain of speculations.
Bottom line:
The TI OMAP3640 CPU is an Arm Cortex [email protected] with tweaks by TI, made in 45nm.
The Hummingbird CPU is an Arm Cortex [email protected] with tweaks by samsung, 45nm.
The differences between those two is almost null.
The Droid X uses SGX530 at stock frequency (200mhz)
The Galaxy S uses SGX540 at stock frequency, or higher. Not yet known.
Both devices use 512MB LP DDR2.
You can see the differences clearly, and untill we won't have specific benches for every part of those system, we won't be able to compare properly.
About the CPU, the current best way to compare is run Linpack on both devices. Measure pure raw processing power (output @ mflops)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Alright, i'll remove references here to those articles. I want to keep this post really related to feelings on which carrier options benefit the most / least.

Hey, thanks for the great post and info. ID like to say thanks to other contributers as well. This thread helped loads.

Thanks, great info!
seems like SGS i9000 is the better choice (tech spec), i didn't like the shell design of the Motorola Droid X
the 8Mpix camera and 4G on the Droid X difference vs. the SGS 5Mpix and 3G is not that much of set back.

still the fastest!
http://androidandme.com/2010/07/news/galaxy-s-lineup-leads-the-pack-in-android-gpu-benchmarks/

This is actually a very subjective comparison. Most pros and cons are about the network or price.
About the hardware you could add that the Samsung Epic (4G) is actually the only device that seem to have an notification LED (also for charging).

mccune said:
This is actually a very subjective comparison. Most pros and cons are about the network or price.
About the hardware you could add that the Samsung Epic (4G) is actually the only device that seem to have an notification LED (also for charging).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I added your point. I'm not really sure which phone i'm getting. Some of the chats here are pushing me away from DroidX, but i'm still open to it, the iphone4, One of the Sammy's.
I think one of the bigger weights to the formula that i didn't put in is how each network does in reception in your area (at work , home, and to and from). But if that's all equal, as it is for me, then i become open to anything. For me, i'm leaning towards the Epic a little, but when Tmobile releases it's phone, it'll be hard to resist on that $59 no contract plan, especially if Sprint hasn't released a date yet.

keep in mind theres still the Bell version, which is on AT&T 3G frequencies for those wondering.
http://galaxys.bell.ca/
looks pretty much exactly like the Euro version

sundip said:
still the fastest!
http://androidandme.com/2010/07/news/galaxy-s-lineup-leads-the-pack-in-android-gpu-benchmarks/
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Click to collapse
i like that, our phone has the Overall better performer.
the moto droid X might be faster in HD, but it is slower on other tasks

Ziostilon said:
keep in mind theres still the Bell version, which is on AT&T 3G frequencies for those wondering.
http://galaxys.bell.ca/
looks pretty much exactly like the Euro version
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
don't go for Bell, it's a CDMA network, you'll wont be able to use it much for travel to areas without CDMA services

AllGamer said:
i like that, our phone has the Overall better performer.
the moto droid X might be faster in HD, but it is slower on other tasks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, GLbenchmark tests graphics only, and cpu performance in graphics-bound operations.
GLbenchmark 1.1 is devided to pro and HD because 1.1 came out when no HD-display phones were around.
GLbenchmark 2.0 operates in "HD" as well.

Dual Core Anyone?

Hi
With all the latest phones coming out Just a thought as which ones would entice you guys

HTC Hero!

the GSM equivalent of the EVO 3D , gimme 4.3 screen + notification light and dual core, 3d is a bonus! the others lack some of the above and I trust neither moto nor LG, the galaxy S2 came close though.

still dont know what ill will pick then again im getting a new phone in december will see wats out by then

Moved from Hero to DHD and sure its faster but nothing new
Question is how much faster is Dual Core vs say DHD?

Depends what activity, e.g. Tegra Games will most likely look better, web browsing is likely to be slightly quick and smoother and battery life should be better.

The main problem with dual cores is there isn't any software to get the best out of it just now.
Even though benchmark tests look pretty impressive, I'll wait getting one until the software is available. And hopefully by then the phone of choice will be rooted

Does anyone know release dates for Sansung and LG dual core phones in the UK?

etherspin said:
the GSM equivalent of the EVO 3D , gimme 4.3 screen + notification light and dual core, 3d is a bonus! the others lack some of the above and I trust neither moto nor LG, the galaxy S2 came close though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You read my mind!

Got my LG Optimus 2X now and i could say it's a new experience

i'll bought a lg 2x, if i get a good deal

Dual-core is not utilized to the full right now, only apps coded specifically to thread processes can reap the benefits. I think the upcoming OS version Ice Cream Sandwich supports two or more cores.

My next phone will have at least dual core, but I will keep my Hero for another year (thanks to Elelinux, Erasmux and the others who keep my Hero alive )

Your next phone (after DHD)

So I’ve had my DHD for a about a year or more now
I still love it even with its limited battery I also have just recently started trying out root access and used my first rom
But I still find myself wanting a new phone & hardware; does anybody else find the recent phones from HTC all much the same with nothing that stands out?
I like HTC Sense its one the of main reasons I got my DHD but I’m considering jumping ship and going for a Galixy Nexus.
I hope HTC come up with something good when they release the first HTC Android 4 phone.
I thought it might be interesting to hear what other members and owners of a DHD are hoping for in your next phone from HTC.
Personally I’m over the CPU/GPU marketing race I find my DHD has more than enough power for the way I use it its IMO very similar to the Megapixel marketing of digital cameras.
I’d personally like to see a shift or segment of the market move into phones that last all day, perhaps with some new battery technologies
What are your thoughts / ideas and & wishes for your next HTC phone after the DHD

Something with a tegra 3 chip. Plus it should sort out the battery life as well. Some of the leaked shots of htcs quad core phones look great so I'll probably stick with them because I've not been let down by my dhd plus the build quality is miles ahead of Samsung and lg. Only Motorola have such durable builds out of the other OEMs but I've always found their software let them down, maybe that'll change with the Google takeover. Anyway this is all talk for another day as my dhd feels as though I'll get at least another 8/9 months out of it without problems

in the next couple weeks im switching to an SII then that should hold me to July when i'll buy whatever the best phone out is or maybe the galaxy nexus

tbh tegra 3 is not a real quad core but a dual core with 4 threads meaning it's faster than tegra 2 but in theory by 25%. You can say that 4 threaded dual core can be equal to a 3 core CPU.
So i believe i'll get something with real quad core processor until then i'll wait for 1-2 years...DHD would work just fine in the meantime.

shad0wboss said:
tbh tegra 3 is not a real quad core but a dual core with 4 threads meaning it's faster than tegra 2 but in theory by 25%. You can say that 4 threaded dual core can be equal to a 3 core CPU.
So i believe i'll get something with real quad core processor until then i'll wait for 1-2 years...DHD would work just fine in the meantime.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ill just have to see what phones HTC has released when my contract ends next nov so till then this tough built DHD will do fine

Aamir.Badat said:
ill just have to see what phones HTC has released when my contract ends next nov so till then this tough built DHD will do fine
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, exactly my position! Not sure anything is floating my boat at the moment though, would like better battery life but nothing else is screaming out at me. Wont be going with the Samsungs whilst they have the flimsy feel to them, I just like the heft of my DHD in my hand too much

shad0wboss said:
tbh tegra 3 is not a real quad core but a dual core with 4 threads meaning it's faster than tegra 2 but in theory by 25%. You can say that 4 threaded dual core can be equal to a 3 core CPU.
So i believe i'll get something with real quad core processor until then i'll wait for 1-2 years...DHD would work just fine in the meantime.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe I've picked it up wrong but that's not what I've read about the tegra 3. From all the PR details the tegra 3 is a genuine quad core with a fifth slave core running at 600 MHz which is the main utility driver with the other four cores kicking in on demand. From all the write ups I've seen this equates to a genuine saving of power on day to day tasks but a real world benefit of double the power of the equivelant dual core. I'll see if I can find some links later as I'm on my phone at the mo and I can't be arsed copy pasting

Man this seems strange....I got my Desire here with 1ghz processor.
My very first PC was the fastest out at the time, with a 120mhz processor and 8mb of RAM & a 1gb hard drive....lol.
But now yuh got dual core 1.5ghz phones and quad cores coming along!!
Wonder what will be about in 50 years time?
Prob HTC Sonic Boom, 55 core super charger x 4 turbo 1,000,000mhz processor
CRAZY how technology seems to whizz along!!!!!
matt

matthew33 said:
Man this seems strange....I got my Desire here with 1ghz processor.
My very first PC was the fastest out at the time, with a 120mhz processor and 8mb of RAM & a 1gb hard drive....lol.
But now yuh got dual core 1.5ghz phones and quad cores coming along!!
Wonder what will be about in 50 years time?
Prob HTC Sonic Boom, 55 core super charger x 4 turbo 1,000,000mhz processor
CRAZY how technology seems to whizz along!!!!!
matt
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Won't happen, we'll hit the singularity before then. They reckon it'll be in the next twenty years

I've ordered Samsung GSII, should be delivered by the end of next week.
Still not sure whether I'm going to like it or not. I'm used to sense ROMS.
Let's see

Nokia Lumia 800 or the Galaxy Nexus

hero000 said:
I've ordered Samsung GSII, should be delivered by the end of next week.
Still not sure whether I'm going to like it or not. I'm used to sense ROMS.
Let's see
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You'll love it, its a beautiful phone.
I love sense, I've tried all the roms but always end up back with sense. The only one that's broken that cycle is the beta ics rom going round but none of the others come close in my mind. Even cm7 with go launcher(the best way to go to my mind) is incomparible to HTC sense. Sense is beautiful, no other weather widget is even within touching distance if sense 3 or 3.5 and many other sense features are the same. The only problem for some is the bulk that sense takes, but sense comes fully loaded. You don't need a launcher, don't need a weather app, don't need a anything, its all just there. Problem is android users feel the need to be different more often than not, hence the flashing addiction( trust me I'm one of em) but for the uninitiated or those who just want it to work out of the box sense is the way to go.
But back to the topic, the sgs2 is awesome. My brother. In law has one and I must say its a staggering achievement. Powerful, smooth and a great clean crisp display, plus its in line for one of the first ics OEM updates make it the phone to have to my mind, even in front of the galaxy nexus mainly due to the camera.
You really will not be disappointed

What about HTC Zeta.
Any real news about it other than rumers.
Sent from my Desire HD using xda premium

dasj24 said:
What about HTC Zeta.
Any real news about it other than rumers.
Sent from my Desire HD using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Problem with this us HTC aren't planning on release of its new range until march/April do anything before then is pure speculation but that was one of the phones I was alluding to, the other being the htc edge

Yesterday I ordered my Motorola RAZR
I hesitated between Motorola and Google Nexus Prime, but Prime is no Mass Storage ... and only 5MP camera and No Gorilla Glass
Prime is on ISC but Motorola on Gingerbread but he will have an ICS update in January

ponk2k said:
Maybe I've picked it up wrong but that's not what I've read about the tegra 3. From all the PR details the tegra 3 is a genuine quad core with a fifth slave core running at 600 MHz which is the main utility driver with the other four cores kicking in on demand. From all the write ups I've seen this equates to a genuine saving of power on day to day tasks but a real world benefit of double the power of the equivelant dual core. I'll see if I can find some links later as I'm on my phone at the mo and I can't be arsed copy pasting
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
haha now i can't find the link where i read it. I think you're right because i just read about tegra 3 and it does say that it has got 4 cortex A9 cores and a fifth core running at 600mhz...
i think i got my pc mixed up with tegra 3; recently got a mobility i5 (dual core with 4 threads) lol
Cheers!

Ideally something with a native fedora, realistically probably something i can dual boot

possibly stick to htc ...unless they take a turn for the worse
if android jellybean comes in august or so, by november (when my contract ends) i'll have a htc jellybean phone

I'll be keeping my DHD for another year, by that time AFAIK there should be quad core phones from all brands, I've heard the Samsung Galaxy SIII will be awesome, but a part of me never wants to leave HTC.
Does anyone have other suggestions for late 2012 (let's just assume the world won't end).

well.., for me i can't live without HTC sense, and i love HTC company very much iam using there phones from along time HTC always different and with HTC sense you are unique.
iam thinking to buy HTC EVO 3D, i like this phone but also i love my phone too

[US Variants] Adreno 225 woes

Two years ago I bought an Incredible. I could have waited a month for the fascinate, and I'm glad I didn't, but something began to bug me; the Adreno 200 was very underpowered. Fast forward to now and I'm forced to upgrade to keep my unlimited data. The obvious choice is the upcoming Galaxy S3, so I pre-ordered one. I can't help but wonder if I'm repeating my last phone purchase by obtaining hardware with a GPU that simply wont hold up in the future.
The biggest blow of having a weak GPU in my Incredible was the incompatibility with ICS. Google would not and could not support the Nexus One due to the meager Adreno 200 GPU it housed. This upset many QSD based device owners, especially the Nexus One adopters. I know ICS roms are continually improving for QSD based phones but they'll always lag. Meanwhile the fascinate has received great ICS support due to having the same GPU as the Galaxy Nexus. One month could have changed my future proof experience, but inevidbly the fascinate had a bunch of issues I'm glad I didn't have to deal with.
I know hardware becomes obsolete. It happens, I get it. We all want to try and do the best we can though, especially those of us on Verizon with unlimited data; this is our last subsidized upgrade allowing us to retain unlimited data.
Looking at GSM Arena's benchmarks, specifically the Egypt off-screen test, the Adreno 225 lags behind yesteryear's Galaxy S2 with the Mali 400. The international GS3's performance in this test zooms ahead of the Qualcomm variants by double.
Will the US Galaxy S3 withstand the test of time and provide future proof hardware for a reasonable amount of time? Or will it fall short of the two year expected lifespan like the QSD Adreno 200 devices did?
I am uncertain and wish Qualcomm would seriously step its GPU game. Am I alone with this line of thinking?
[I originally posted this in the international forum, but felt it belonged here.]

Div033 said:
The biggest blow of having a weak GPU in my Incredible was the incompatibility with ICS. Google would not and could not support the Nexus One due to the meager Adreno 200 GPU it housed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought the biggest problem with the Nexus One was the limited space for system files. Other Adreno 200 devices, such as the Evo 4G, have Android 4.0 running on them, and I hear it works really well.
I know that the early Exynos found on the Nexus S also works quite well.
I think any modern chipset easily surpasses the performance required for the type of GPU tasks being implemented at the system level. Games are still a concern, but compatibility is more of an issue there than performance, and the Adreno 225 is popular enough that it should be supported.
But there's always next year for really kick-ass GPUs.

Div033 said:
Two years ago I bought an Incredible. I could have waited a month for the fascinate, and I'm glad I didn't, but something began to bug me; the Adreno 200 was very underpowered. Fast forward to now and I'm forced to upgrade to keep my unlimited data. The obvious choice is the upcoming Galaxy S3, so I pre-ordered one. I can't help but wonder if I'm repeating my last phone purchase by obtaining hardware with a GPU that simply wont hold up in the future.
The biggest blow of having a weak GPU in my Incredible was the incompatibility with ICS. Google would not and could not support the Nexus One due to the meager Adreno 200 GPU it housed. This upset many QSD based device owners, especially the Nexus One adopters. I know ICS roms are continually improving for QSD based phones but they'll always lag. Meanwhile the fascinate has received great ICS support due to having the same GPU as the Galaxy Nexus. One month could have changed my future proof experience, but inevidbly the fascinate had a bunch of issues I'm glad I didn't have to deal with.
I know hardware becomes obsolete. It happens, I get it. We all want to try and do the best we can though, especially those of us on Verizon with unlimited data; this is our last subsidized upgrade allowing us to retain unlimited data.
Looking at GSM Arena's benchmarks, specifically the Egypt off-screen test, the Adreno 225 lags behind yesteryear's Galaxy S2 with the Mali 400. The international GS3's performance in this test zooms ahead of the Qualcomm variants by double.
Will the US Galaxy S3 withstand the test of time and provide future proof hardware for a reasonable amount of time? Or will it fall short of the two year expected lifespan like the QSD Adreno 200 devices did?
I am uncertain and wish Qualcomm would seriously step its GPU game. Am I alone with this line of thinking?
[I originally posted this in the international forum, but felt it belonged here.]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, you also have to look at resources available and time constraints. The introduction of LTE in the US probably forced said chip maker to make some concessions. What they lost in state of the art GPU, the gained in the ridiculous profit they made this year because they are the only chip that includes LTE. From their perspective, they've won the war thus far.

I agree with this line of thinking. As an earlier poster said, the Evo 4G had the Adreno 200. I use N64oid all the time. The Evo would struggle with games that the first Galaxy S family had no problem at all with. I have since switched to the Motorola Photon 4G, and the Tegra 2 (Nvidia GeForce GPU). It handles both emulators, as well as high end games so much better than my Evo did. I would have already pre-ordered the S3 if it weren't for this.

real world performance > benchmarks
My Sensation has an Adreno220 and it plays every game and movie just fine. Sure it doesn't get the best benchmark numbers but it more than holds it's own when playing any game. I'm sure the Adreno225 will hold up just fine over the next couple years. In fact I still love my Sensation. Side by side it's still just as fast as most phones out there. You only see a difference when running benchmarks which isn't practical. I personally don't care if i'm getting 200fps or 50. It's not like anyone can tell the difference.
I also want to note that the 220 is crazy powerful compared to the 200 and 205. It was the first GPU that Qualcomm seemed to really take a stab at gaming with. I'm fine with the 220 and can't wait to begin using the 225.

bradleyw801 said:
I agree with this line of thinking. As an earlier poster said, the Evo 4G had the Adreno 200. I use N64oid all the time. The Evo would struggle with games that the first Galaxy S family had no problem at all with. I have since switched to the Motorola Photon 4G, and the Tegra 2 (Nvidia GeForce GPU). It handles both emulators, as well as high end games so much better than my Evo did. I would have already pre-ordered the S3 if it weren't for this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As nativestranger said in another thread,
"The 225 despite its deceptive naming is 4-6x the performance of the 205 and roughly 1.6-2x the 220."
Also, performance on the Evo cannot be based solely on Gpu(Adreno 200). Cpu, Ram, Resolution etc... have a ton to do with it as well.

Will the GPU do better in this phone due to the extra ram compared to the one series with the same S4/225 combo?

Div033 said:
Looking at GSM Arena's benchmarks, specifically the Egypt off-screen test, the Adreno 225 lags behind yesteryear's Galaxy S2 with the Mali 400. The international GS3's performance in this test zooms ahead of the Qualcomm variants by double.
[I originally posted this in the international forum, but felt it belonged here.]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You should also note that the GS2 only had 480 x 800 (384000 total pixels) resolution and even at that way lower resolution it's score was only slightly higher in that test whereas the GS3 is pushing 720x1280 (921600 total pixels). That means that the GS3 is working 2.4 times harder than the GS2 and it delivers almost the same gaming performance at worst, and better performance in others. That's not bad if you ask me seeing as how we all thought the GS2 was a powerhouse just 12 months ago.

incubus26jc said:
As nativestranger said in another thread,
"The 225 despite its deceptive naming is 4-6x the performance of the 205 and roughly 1.6-2x the 220."
Also, performance on the Evo cannot be based solely on Gpu(Adreno 200). Cpu and Ram have a ton to do with it as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
agreed, i haven't seen anyone suffering from GPU woes other than benchmark nuts who obsess over the highest score.....everyone actually using it for real things say it works great.....and honestly, my take is if you want gaming performance, don't use a phone, plug your 360 into your big screen and kick ass from the couch in HD and surround sound

I did somehow forget to acknowledge the resolution of the GS3 vs. GS2 because that most certainly makes a difference. It is an unfair comparison.
My primary concern isn't with gaming on the device. I just want the device to be able to run the next two-three versions of android without being hardware bottlenecked.
I've used ICS on my Incredible which is virtually the same as the Evo 4G but performance is still lacking. In some cases it can take a good 4-5 seconds to move from an app to the homescreen when pressing the home button. This may not be entirely the GPU's fault, but regardless homescreen scrolling remains sluggish and somewhat laggy.
As far as popularity of a chipset goes, its become evident that this factor does not affect how long manufacturers will support it. The Nexus One had a QSD chip and was one of the most popular chipsets around at the time but it still did not receive ICS. I know they claimed space restrictions were the reason but I find this highly unlikely considering the other more limiting factors.
Maybe the 225 will be good enough for future android versions like key lime pie and licorice or whatever they call it.
Sent from my Droid Incredible using the XDA app.

Div033 said:
I did somehow forget to acknowledge the resolution of the GS3 vs. GS2 because that most certainly makes a difference. It is an unfair comparison.
My primary concern isn't with gaming on the device. I just want the device to be able to run the next two-three versions of android without being hardware bottlenecked.
I've used ICS on my Incredible which is virtually the same as the Evo 4G but performance is still lacking. In some cases it can take a good 4-5 seconds to move from an app to the homescreen when pressing the home button. This may not be entirely the GPU's fault, but regardless homescreen scrolling remains sluggish and somewhat laggy.
As far as popularity of a chipset goes, its become evident that this factor does not affect how long manufacturers will support it. The Nexus One had a QSD chip and was one of the most popular chipsets around at the time but it still did not receive ICS. I know they claimed space restrictions were the reason but I find this highly unlikely considering the other more limiting factors.
Maybe the 225 will be good enough for future android versions like key lime pie and licorice or whatever they call it.
Sent from my Droid Incredible using the XDA app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well it might interest you to know the Adreno 225 supports DirectX 9.3 and texture compression where Mali 400 does not. Its a requirement for Windows 8. Now, you might say so what....but I for one plan on trying to dual boot or even run a version of Windows RT perhaps on a virtual machine. Something else that the S4 Krait/Adreno package supports natively I do believe, that the Exynos/Mali doesn't.
Sent from my DROIDX using xda premium

Div033 said:
I've used ICS on my Incredible which is virtually the same as the Evo 4G but performance is still lacking. In some cases it can take a good 4-5 seconds to move from an app to the homescreen when pressing the home button. This may not be entirely the GPU's fault, but regardless homescreen scrolling remains sluggish and somewhat laggy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is almost certainly a RAM issue. With the ridiculous 2GB on this phone, I would hope you wouldn't run into issues until Android at least wraps the alphabet.

Voltage Spike said:
This is almost certainly a RAM issue. With the ridiculous 2GB on this phone, I would hope you wouldn't run into issues until Android at least wraps the alphabet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1. I do believe more ram (largest among this generation phones) matters for long term usage.

The GPU is fine.
Guys, this is a Galaxy S phone. The newest one at least.
It is GUARANTEED a Jelly Bean update from Samsung (albeit late). It is also most likely getting at least 1 or 2 more major Android updates because of XDA.
Remember, ALL OF US has the SAME Galaxy S3. That is a LOT of devs that will be working on it.
Don't worry about that. It will come with time.

Div033 said:
I did somehow forget to acknowledge the resolution of the GS3 vs. GS2 because that most certainly makes a difference. It is an unfair comparison.
My primary concern isn't with gaming on the device. I just want the device to be able to run the next two-three versions of android without being hardware bottlenecked.
I've used ICS on my Incredible which is virtually the same as the Evo 4G but performance is still lacking. In some cases it can take a good 4-5 seconds to move from an app to the homescreen when pressing the home button. This may not be entirely the GPU's fault, but regardless homescreen scrolling remains sluggish and somewhat laggy.
As far as popularity of a chipset goes, its become evident that this factor does not affect how long manufacturers will support it. The Nexus One had a QSD chip and was one of the most popular chipsets around at the time but it still did not receive ICS. I know they claimed space restrictions were the reason but I find this highly unlikely considering the other more limiting factors.
Maybe the 225 will be good enough for future android versions like key lime pie and licorice or whatever they call it.
Sent from my Droid Incredible using the XDA app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You simply don't compare the Adreno 200 of first generation snapdragon devices with the 225 of current devices. The Adreno 200 gpu even for it's time is woefully weak. The 205 that followed after was easily 3x or more the performance. Most devices based on this gpu including the xperia play actually had no problem playing the latest games. The 220 saw a similarly huge increase. Qualcomm eased off a little with the 225 by using the same architecture but built on a smaller process and increased the clocks/ memory bandwidth resulting in 1.6x - 2x performance increase. Hence the comments of it being a lame upgrade. However when we look at the desktop gpu of the AMD 6000 series. The upgrade was less than 20% over previous year and people are universally appraising the 6970 gpu. This is how gullible fanboyism and can result in strongly skewed perception over actual results.

nativestranger said:
You simply don't compare the Adreno 200 of first generation snapdragon devices with the 225 of current devices. The Adreno 200 gpu even for it's time is woefully weak. The 205 that followed after was easily 3x or more the performance. Most devices based on this gpu including the xperia play actually had no problem playing the latest games. The 220 saw a similarly huge increase. Qualcomm eased off a little with the 225 by using the same architecture but built on a smaller process and increased the clocks/ memory bandwidth resulting in 1.6x - 2x performance increase. Hence the comments of it being a lame upgrade. However when we look at the desktop gpu of the AMD 6000 series. The upgrade was less than 20% over previous year and people are universally appraising the 6970 gpu. This is how gullible fanboyism and can result in strongly skewed perception over actual results.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fair enough. I suppose you're right, the Adreno 200 was already severely underpowered at launch. The 225 may not be the best, but it's still up among the top tier GPUs. I guess I have nothing to worry about. The 2GB ram is definitely nice too.
Sent from my Droid Incredible using the XDA app.

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The nexus one is running the Adreno 200. The htc one v with Adreno 205 is over 5X faster. The rezound has an Adreno 220. over 3X faster than the one V but also running more than 2X the resolution. The GS3 with adreno 225 is hard up against the vsync wall in he hoverjet test and about 3x faster than the rezound in the egypt test. It's amazing how much Adreno has upgraded in just 2 years. From the 2fps on the 200 to never dropping below 60fps on the 225.

Thank you this helps me make my decision too ^. Also does having a high resolution screen make graphics look better? Like NOVA 3 on my SGS2 looks awesome. All the effects are there bullet smoke and what not. So will these effects or the graphics in general look better on this sgs3 screen?
Thanks!

Your GPU will be just fine. Other posters have already shown that it is perfectly competitive with the gpu's in other top-tier phones of this generation, and most top-tier phones sold in the US since the beginning of the year have run S4 SoC's. It comes down to LTE, something the rest of the world doesn't have (for the most part, and nowhere near our level). I for one would much rather give up an absolutely world-crushing gpu than to be stuck on 3g forever.
Also, keep in mind that the Galaxy S3 is on-track to be the fastest-selling device ever. The American market is huge, and is the home to many of the major players in this industry (including of course Google themselves), not to mention that Samsung seems to want to treat the two devices (US and International versions) as one in the same. Its not like they'll want all those customers to have a gpu that'll make the phone feel old in 3 months, so I wouldn't worry.
And honestly, I don't really see Android becoming significantly more hardware-intensive anytime real soon. The current/upcoming generation of hardware can beat many people's PC's in terms of UI navigation, launching apps, and even running games. Two HUGE things Google talked about with Jellybean was introducing the PDK, and Project Butter. This shows that they recognize that some of the platform's biggest weaknesses were its slow, inconsistent updates and perceived lower performance to iOS due to the UI. From what I have seen of Jellybean in videos, I don't see much further room to speed up the UI, its already about as fast and smooth as it can get it seems. I would imagine screen resolution won't be making huge jumps in the immediate future; there'll be some 1080p screens, but I doubt people will demand that in a sub 5" device they hold a foot in front of their face, considering the negative impact on battery life.
What I'm trying to say is I don't see Android really demanding significantly more powerful hardware to keep growing, as it already runs as smooth and fast as possible on hardware we're already calling outdated. Sure, more ram and more powerful cpu's may let you multitask with more apps without slowdowns, and better gpu's can run newer games even better, but I just don't see the system itself requiring significantly better hardware than we have now for a few generations. Looks like we'll be more focused on multitasking performance, efficiency/battery life, and manufacturing costs so everyone can enjoy the kind of performance that's currently reserved for us nuts buying new top-tier phones every 8 months.
So again, no, I wouldn't worry. Sure, its not the best thing out there, and will soon be outclassed, but I don't see it handicapping Android anytime soon, especially with 2GB of RAM.

Cruiserdude said:
Your GPU will be just fine. Other posters have already shown that it is perfectly competitive with the gpu's in other top-tier phones of this generation, and most top-tier phones sold in the US since the beginning of the year have run S4 SoC's. It comes down to LTE, something the rest of the world doesn't have (for the most part, and nowhere near our level). I for one would much rather give up an absolutely world-crushing gpu than to be stuck on 3g forever.
Also, keep in mind that the Galaxy S3 is on-track to be the fastest-selling device ever. The American market is huge, and is the home to many of the major players in this industry (including of course Google themselves), not to mention that Samsung seems to want to treat the two devices (US and International versions) as one in the same. Its not like they'll want all those customers to have a gpu that'll make the phone feel old in 3 months, so I wouldn't worry.
And honestly, I don't really see Android becoming significantly more hardware-intensive anytime real soon. The current/upcoming generation of hardware can beat many people's PC's in terms of UI navigation, launching apps, and even running games. Two HUGE things Google talked about with Jellybean was introducing the PDK, and Project Butter. This shows that they recognize that some of the platform's biggest weaknesses were its slow, inconsistent updates and perceived lower performance to iOS due to the UI. From what I have seen of Jellybean in videos, I don't see much further room to speed up the UI, its already about as fast and smooth as it can get it seems. I would imagine screen resolution won't be making huge jumps in the immediate future; there'll be some 1080p screens, but I doubt people will demand that in a sub 5" device they hold a foot in front of their face, considering the negative impact on battery life.
What I'm trying to say is I don't see Android really demanding significantly more powerful hardware to keep growing, as it already runs as smooth and fast as possible on hardware we're already calling outdated. Sure, more ram and more powerful cpu's may let you multitask with more apps without slowdowns, and better gpu's can run newer games even better, but I just don't see the system itself requiring significantly better hardware than we have now for a few generations. Looks like we'll be more focused on multitasking performance, efficiency/battery life, and manufacturing costs so everyone can enjoy the kind of performance that's currently reserved for us nuts buying new top-tier phones every 8 months.
So again, no, I wouldn't worry. Sure, its not the best thing out there, and will soon be outclassed, but I don't see it handicapping Android anytime soon, especially with 2GB of RAM.
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I see lol well that's good I don't wanna have to buy a new phone every half a year! But will the HD resolution make any of the game loft games look any better than they do on my galaxy s2 with the Mali 400 gpu? Thanks!
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