Looks like HTC has done it again and delivered a phone that should run crazy fast on paper BUT the actual performance is sub-par compared to other phones:
HTC Nexus One (FAILphone):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvzxZ8tOBcQ
HTC Magic and HTC Liquid Benchmark:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O36LA6EhZg4
I don't think that Neocore benchmarks the entire system, maybe more on the graphics chip. I don't know any specifics on the N1's graphics capabilities, but the 1 ghz snapdragon cpu is a definite boost from its predecessors.
Do you work for Apple?
How does it do on PiBenchmark? That would provide more relevant results with its Snapdragon processor.
andythefan said:
I don't think that Neocore benchmarks the entire system, maybe more on the graphics chip. I don't know any specifics on the N1's graphics capabilities, but the 1 ghz snapdragon cpu is a definite boost from its predecessors.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
doesn't the liquid come with an underclocked snapdragon?
I have a Magic that is rooted and tweaked to all hell and have played with the nexus. There is no doubt that the Google phone out performs any other phone that HTC has released. Ive seen it first hand. Its very fast and can handle so many things going on at the same time it makes my tummy tickle.
You are an idiot. Get your panties out of a bunch because you are pissed at the price and that it has no AT&T 3G. Should we all be pissed that the Droid only works on Verizon? Should we all be pissed that the iPhone only has AT&T 3G? The Nexus One is designed to be on T-Mobile. Sure, it will technically work on any GSM provider, but that isn't what it was intended to do. Google must have some deal with T-Mobile since they offers the most android phones.
And about the performance, that only shows video performance, and we dont know for sure what the N1 and A1 have in terms of a GPU
staulkor said:
And about the performance, that only shows video performance, and we dont know for sure what the N1 and A1 have in terms of a GPU
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought neocore tested the graphics chip with 3d benchamarking?
andythefan said:
I don't think that Neocore benchmarks the entire system, maybe more on the graphics chip. I don't know any specifics on the N1's graphics capabilities, but the 1 ghz snapdragon cpu is a definite boost from its predecessors.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's called system on a chip.
and the telling comparison is the Acer Liquid with its ~750MHz Snapdragon CPU (underclocked) vs. the Nexus One with its 1GHz Snapdragon CPU.
Looks like HTC screwed up again.
Ohhh. The other posters are pissed because their Messiah phone is a big FAIL?
What are you, 15 years old? Get off of mommy's computer and stop *****ing because you can't use the N1 on your network and get 3G.
Im guessing the benchmark isnt accurate. It goes beyond common senese that the fps are the same as the magic.
Maedhros said:
Im guessing the benchmark isnt accurate. It goes beyond common senese that the fps are the same as the magic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually ... it goes nicely with HTC's track record of under-performing hardware.
We have too many variables that makes comparing these results difficult. The HTC Magic and Liquid are running 1.6, while the Nexus is running 2.1. There are dramatically different levels of overhead on different Android system versions. There could be way more overhead on Android 2.1 than on 1.6. Additionally, you forgot to mention that the Nexus One is running at a resolution 2.5 times that of the HTC Magic.
Just because you're not going to buy the Nexus (because you recently purchased another handset and are trying to justify your purchase, or because it doesn't support your carrier's 3G frequencies, or otherwise) doesn't mean you are obliged to spam these forums with "OMG THIS PHONE IS FAIL"
the resolution used on the n1 is far higher than on the older devices remember
coolVariable said:
It's called system on a chip.
and the telling comparison is the Acer Liquid with its ~750MHz Snapdragon CPU (underclocked) vs. the Nexus One with its 1GHz Snapdragon CPU.
Looks like HTC screwed up again.
Ohhh. The other posters are pissed because their Messiah phone is a big FAIL?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only FAIL here are your posts. You sound like a Droid owner, pissed that your phone is about to lose top dog status. Just crawl back into your parents basement, fire up your xbox, and shoot some 12 year olds. It will help you get over the fact that you are a huge FAIL.
lol @semantics now thats funny man
I have had this phone for three weeks now and one thing its not is SLOW. Its way faster than my 3GS and my Mytouch.
I got 27.4 FPS on my G1.
I'm pretty sure the N1 isn't slower then the G1. That would be stupid.
I don't give a damn, I'm buying this joint day 1!! LOL
my theory:
1. Neocore is designed to work with android 1.6 and Open GL ES 1.1
2. The Liquid A1 has the same processor (albeit underclocked) and the same screen resolution as the N1 so you would expect them to perform similarliy. They dont perfrom the same so you must look at the differences between the phones. The biggest to me is the fact that the Liquid A1 has Android 1.6 and Open GL ES 1.1, the sweet spot for Neocore.
3. The N1 had Android 2.1 and Open GL ES 2.0, specs that are not supported by Neocore. How can Neocore accurately test the N1 when it does not support its specifications? The slowness is not due to poor hardware, rather it is due to old software trying to run on the latest hardware.
Related
http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/19/exclusive-dell-thunder-prototype-preview-video/
Under the performance section they describe how it uses a 1GHz snapdragon with adreno graphics. Is this not what evo has? How does this crush the evo performance out of the box like this? Is there hope for us?
I can pull 32fps on a good day with custom everything. But this thing did it on a prototype with no enhancements. Maybe its a different chip, Idk.
Maybe theres no FPS limit.
I think it's just because it has a newer processor. Not sure what changes are in the QSM compared to QSD.
How do you figure that 37 vs 32 is crushing?
Nagrom Nniuq said:
How do you figure that 37 vs 32 is crushing?
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Click to collapse
32 is with custom Rom, kernel, overclock, etc. It's probably more like 25-27 stock.
If the thunder does 37fps stock, that's 35-40% better than evo does out of the box. If it does that with the same gpu, they did something right.
This is true.
Acer did the same thing with their Aspire getting better graphics scores.
This could help with the improvement of the Evo.
The Evo gets 25fps stock, and without 30fps cap it gets 27fps.
I think HTC doesn't unleash the full potential of the Snapdragon..
I blame HDMI....and HTC's stupidity.
starplaya93 said:
I blame HDMI....and HTC's stupidity.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They're not stupid, they're lazy...
There was a thread in the nexus forum for overclocking the Adreno, but it has died. I think the consensus was that overclock is not possible. But is overclock really needed for better performance if other devices are rockin the same GPU?
With so many devices on their plate, I can understand how HTC doesn't bother to optimize any of them. It's not forgivable, but as a business plan it makes sense.
hdad2 said:
There was a thread in the nexus forum for overclocking the Adreno, but it has died. I think the consensus was that overclock is not possible. But is overclock really needed for better performance if other devices are rockin the same GPU?
With so many devices on their plate, I can understand how HTC doesn't bother to optimize any of them. It's not forgivable, but as a business plan it makes sense.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How do you figure? Most of HTC's devices out the gate are Snapdragon/Adreno. The ones that aren't STILL have Adreno cores attached to them because HTC uses exclusively Qualcomm chips and almost ALL of them have Adrenos.
Engadget said:
though graphically the Thunder pulled ahead with a respectable 37.1fps in Neocore and 18.6fps in Nenamark.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A couple of points here.
1. Dell Thunder running Android 2.1 stock--> 37.1fps Neocore and 18.6fps Nenamark.
2. My HTC Evo running 2.2 CyanogenMod w/ Snap --> 31fps Neocore and 18.1fps Nenamark.
Notice the difference?
EtherealRemnant said:
How do you figure? Most of HTC's devices out the gate are Snapdragon/Adreno. The ones that aren't STILL have Adreno cores attached to them because HTC uses exclusively Qualcomm chips and almost ALL of them have Adrenos.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So it should be easy to see super graphical results with this chip because lots of phones use it? I get that they have many adreno devices, so it SHOULD be in their interest to optimize. But business always drives more from less. So they focus efforts on the next device. It's only us nerds that care about performance. We r a small part of the buyers out there. I don't like it, but its true.
People are so quick to jerk off HTC and smear samsung and other companies. Why I'll never understand. This is one good example of HTC's many blunders.
If froyo is optimized for snapdragon processors then why samsung used humingbird processor
Why do you assume this? The two cpu's share much in common.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
jaysins said:
Why do you assume this? The two cpu's share much in common.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
benchmarks and system speed
dadyal said:
benchmarks and system speed
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Why would Samsung make their own chip? Put simply, because they can. Samsung has the facilities and expertise needed to make their own chip, and by so doing they avoid the need of purchasing chips from another vendor (in this case, their competition: Qualcomm).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://pocketnow.com/hardware-1/snapdragon-versus-hummingbird
dadyal said:
If froyo is optimized for snapdragon processors then why samsung used humingbird processor
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
because they didn't want to use the ****ty gpu that comes with the original snapdragon (the newer snapdragon like in the dhd has a good gpu).
Because hummingbird is vastly superior in real world scenarios
Quadrant and linpack as well as most CPU benchmarks that rely on math being done by FPU run much quicker on the snapdragon because of its 128 bit register vs hummingbirds 64. I believe the snapdragons can turn half of it off to save power too. This explains part of the benchmarks but the hummingbird has optimizations snapdragon doesn't, and vise versa,but is suppose to be faster in most real world scenarios as Samsung claims and judging by browser load time comparisons I've seen and how well it runs android 2.1 I'd be inclined to agree. It keeps up with a nexus running 2.2 which is very reassuring so I'd worry less on benchmarks if I were you unless you really feel the need to show your friends how fast your phone can calculate pi to nth degree.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
@ darkimmortal, Is it really? Then why does my n1 with its "crap" snapdragon CPU run everything faster?
On paper yes hummingbird is better, but in the real world as you put it, its only as good as the software that runs on it, and I've not found anything yet that runs faster thanks to having a hummingbird than it would on say an n1 or desire.
The sgs is crippled by rfs, no processor can make up for that. In 3d games the sgs out performs any snapdragon based phones
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
jaysins said:
It keeps up with a nexus running 2.2 which is very reassuring so I'd worry less on benchmarks if I were you unless you really feel the need to show your friends how fast your phone can calculate pi to nth degree.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No disrespect but a well setup nexus on 2.2 is noticeably faster than even the most streamlined lag fixed sgs. The sgs wins the quadrant benchmark but in actual use the nexus is a fair bit faster.
tameracingdriver said:
@ darkimmortal, Is it really? Then why does my n1 with its "crap" snapdragon CPU run everything faster?
On paper yes hummingbird is better, but in the real world as you put it, its only as good as the software that runs on it, and I've not found anything yet that runs faster thanks to having a hummingbird than it would on say an n1 or desire.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You take into consideration just the CPU, N1 and SGS's file systems are different resulting in SGS to be bottlenecked; SGS's main plus is the GPU power, try running those types of GPU heavy items on N1 and they will not run as well. That's the main benefit of Hummingbird compared to Snap but don't just rely on comparing CPU's, there are more things at work here.
tameracingdriver said:
No disrespect but a well setup nexus on 2.2 is noticeably faster than even the most streamlined lag fixed sgs. The sgs wins the quadrant benchmark but in actual use the nexus is a fair bit faster.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Quadrant doesn't mean much, placebo effect at work here. Just a benchmark and doesn't translate (much) into real-world performance. Remember that Google also developed 2.2 almost specifically with Nexus One in mind resulting in more benefits on a N1 than a lot of phones.
lokhor said:
In 3d games the sgs out performs any snapdragon based phone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Admittedly I've not tried them all, and I admit the sgs runs the graphics benchmarks in quadrant noticeably faster, but the games I've tried all run about the same, so what good is that super powerful gpu if nothing takes advantage of it?
Try some gameloft games like asphalt 5, the sgs is a lot smoother
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Ill give it a try. Games are nice but not my main use, the ones I've tried so far including some 3d ones have been fine on the n1 so far.
Hummingbird is the processor of choice for the two most famous smartphones in the world at the moment. Our best among the rest Galaxy and the Iphone 4. So it's the winners choice.
tameracingdriver said:
Ill give it a try. Games are nice but not my main use, the ones I've tried so far including some 3d ones have been fine on the n1 so far.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You could try using a GPU benchmark rather than a system wide benchmark to determine GPU power. Neocore for example is strictly GPU and SGS outperforms N1 almost two-fold.
Again, that is a benchmark and you just have to try out different apps and games to test out GPU's for yourself.
Well for what its worth I've just tried asphalt 5, on the n1 and honestly its just as smooth as on the sgs, so in the end I still say there seems no real advantage in the real world.
dnsp said:
Hummingbird is the processor of choice for the two most famous smartphones in the world at the moment. Our best among the rest Galaxy and the Iphone 4. So it's the winners choice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
makes me wonder, if only Samsung could put iOS4 into Galaxy. we would have the fastest phone for sure,
unfortunately they builded Apple hardware and loaded crapy Android,
tameracingdriver said:
Well for what its worth I've just tried asphalt 5, on the n1 and honestly its just as smooth as on the sgs, so in the end I still say there seems no real advantage in the real world.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry mate but I have to disagree. Having owned a Nexus One, a HTC Desire and a SGS, I can tell you that the Nexus One was the fastest for opening apps, market, etc. The SGS fell between the nexus and the desire. I think each processor has been optimised for different things.
There is a HUGE difference in the graphics department. Asphalt, especially the old hardware accelerated versions (the new ones are dumbed down so they work on the snapdragon phones) were extremely laggy on the nexus and desire. on the SGS theyre very smooth and dont have the annoying multitouch bug.
Try the other gameloft games (sandstorm), polarbit (toon warz), pretty much all of the (few) 3d intensive apps. Very noticeable.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WNt1EQYheQ
the difference in performance was the reason I switched, esp the annoying multi touch, and welcomed my way into a world of sgs lag issues and a non working gps
Im not a big gamer but I do occasionally pull out a title. The differences in the processors is also apparent if you use rockplayer to watch videos.
imho, I preferred the hardware and AOSP feel of the nexus but wish the hummingbird processor+gpu had been used instead of the snaprdragon (or alternatively the snapdragon with a better gpu).
sonci said:
makes me wonder, if only Samsung could put iOS4 into Galaxy. we would have the fastest phone for sure,
unfortunately they builded Apple hardware and loaded crapy Android,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hope you're kidding on this one!
iOS is a closed system with a closed mind. Apps have to go trough intensive aprouval for the AllMighty and AllKnowing apple before hitting the market and, for small idiotic mistake, like a logo to close to the one of the AllMighty, it won't be aprouved.
And not to talk about all the iTune that you have to install just to get it to sync/update... you think Kies is crappy, try iTune on windows...you'll get a couple of services in the background in bonus with the resource hog app!
And, on another note, you should all take in consideration all the GPU intessive task in android, Gaming is only part of it... don't forget browsing, gallery, video playback (you can record a 720p video and watch it back full fluid).
Frankly, I don't realy get all the fuss about the so called "lag" on SGS... I don't realy get any at all and I'm still on the original (no lag fix) rom...
All people calming that desire z processor @800mhz scores better in benchmarks than overlooked snapdragon ,this is not true when Iam on desire z Rom I underclocked my hd2 to 806.4 mhz (same as dz) and I got 1512 score from the first time same as Dz with its perfect GPU , SO OUR CPU PERFORMS BETTER ( you can try it yourself ) Iam not a liar ,I think the improved performance is in THE ROM itself not in the processor
Sent from my HTC HD2 T8585 using XDA App
You have to remember that the benchmarks (quadrant, linpack etc) are all synthetic, like 3dmark back in the day for pc graphics cards. There are so many things that can affect your scores both adversely and positively that they should only be used as a very rough guideline and nothing more. Direct comparisons are all but pointless.
Reno_79 said:
You have to remember that the benchmarks (quadrant, linpack etc) are all synthetic, like 3dmark back in the day for pc graphics cards. There are so many things that can affect your scores both adversely and positively that they should only be used as a very rough guideline and nothing more. Direct comparisons are all but pointless.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Iam talking to people who take quadrant as a prove for performance , I know that its results are not accurate
Sent from my HTC HD2 T8585 using XDA App
I think you should use Quadrant Advanced to compare cpu scores, I know I/O scores help our HD2 a lot.
Even software affects quadrant cpu scores so it is not reliable. Quadrant benchmarks h264 decoding performance as part of cpu benchmark and for example having stagefright driver enabled inflates cpu score by double! Disable stagefright and your cpu will score 400 instead of 800. (in quadrant "advanced") if you use better software decoder it will affect cpu score by large amount. And rebenchmarking produces higher results because of caching. Mips calculating benchmarks are better (like the one in setcpu)
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App
That might be true but the Desire Z/G2 has a co-processor for apps that we don't have.
Sent from my HTC HD2 T8585 using XDA App
psykick5 said:
That might be true but the Desire Z/G2 has a co-processor for apps that we don't have.
what is the coprocessor , desire z have same scorpion core like hd2 only with 45n.m tech
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Click to collapse
I'd say it has a better processor... it just got overclocked to 1.4 Ghz.
http://www.androidcentral.com/t-mobile-g2-overclock-gets-even-better-and-released
wow that makes me want it
RobertsDF said:
I'd say it has a better processor... it just got overclocked to 1.4 Ghz.
http://www.androidcentral.com/t-mobile-g2-overclock-gets-even-better-and-released
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your battey will say thank you. Your chipset too. This phone is not made for such things. That won't last very long I think. But it is quite impressive, seems to be veeeeery fast
JanssoN said:
Your battey will say thank you. Your chipset too. This phone is not made for such things. That won't last very long I think. But it is quite impressive, seems to be veeeeery fast
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1.. imagine, a 75% overclock?? i wonder if the carpet has any burn marks on them when he lifts the phone up, or if his face has any burn marks that's why he's not showing it up on the cam.. lol.. because a 75% OC on a very small device where there is not enough room to breathe, the whole phone would be like a big heatsink if used for a period of time.. and i guess that's also the reason why HTC slapped the 800mhz cpu instead of the 1ghz.. i'm our HD2 can achieve such high of an OC, but it wouldn't be adviceable as it would melt/crack the solder joints on the GPU and/or processor of the phone at that kind of heat.. and i believe that the GPU and apllication coprocessor that they're talking about on the G2 is just a marketing ploy to justify it's price tag.. maybe to cope up with the build price since there are moving parts (hinge) and the hard keyboard.. even the guy at the tmobile store told me that the G2 isn't fast at all.. he said it's nothing close to evo or the nexus one as some people and websites claims.. funny when he asked my what kind of phone do i have.. i pulled my HD2 and showed it to him.. he was surprised to see Android on it and asked me if he could play with it.. so i let him.. and after playing with it for a while, he advised me to wait for the new phone device that's supposed to come out before the end of the year.. he even told me that getting a G2 would be the same as downgrading as he feels that my HD2 is way way faster than the G2.. i told him i'm thinking about getting the vibrant because the port for our HD2 is nothing close to being perfect and that it's still running from the SD card.. again he discouraged me and told me to wait for the next phone device to come.. so i guess that's what i will do..
I'm surprised that you were in store and didn't test drive G2 for yourself, are you sure he is sale person?, he didn't sound like one.
justwonder said:
I'm surprised that you were in store and didn't test drive G2 for yourself, are you sure he is sale person?, he didn't sound like one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
as a matter of fact i did.. that's actually one of the main reason why i went to the store, as i've been reading a lot of good things on G2.. i went there to compare the G2 with the samsung vibrant.. but through the end, i didn't like the G2's performance despite the fact that it's the only phone right now on TMo that supports the HSPA+.. and yes he's a sales person.. i was surprised as well when he told me about the upcoming desire HD.. but that didn't happen until i showed my HD2 to him and let him play with it for a while.. maybe he knows that i'm a phone enthusiast and that i might just end up returning the phone within the 30 days period after playing with the G2.. who knows?? i think the G2 is wayyy overrated.. it performs within it's specs, nothing special..
RobertsDF said:
I'd say it has a better processor... it just got overclocked to 1.4 Ghz.
http://www.androidcentral.com/t-mobile-g2-overclock-gets-even-better-and-released
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Desire Z overclocks to exactly same speeds. Record OC is 1470MHz.
So they are same CPUs, clocked at different speeds. Bigger screen = higher clock to handle bigger screen.
EDIT: Desire Z overclocks to 1.7GHz at 1400mv
EDIT: Desire Z overclocks to 1.9GHz at 1500mv
I cannot understand why everyone is saying that hummingbird processor is better than snapdragon and that's why I started this thread.
I own an HD2 (snapdragon) and SGS (hummingbird).
I've run linpack and quadrant in both phones and here are the results showing that snapdragon is 4 to 5 times faster.
Hummingbird: linpack 13,864 quadrant CPU 1456
Snapdragon: linpack 63,122 quadrant CPU 4122
I'm only talking for the CPU cause if you go to 3D I'll agree that hummingbird is better (but I don't care about 3D cause I don't use my device for games)
Both phones have android 2,2 installed and I have voodoo lagfix installed in SGS
johcos said:
I cannot understand why everyone is saying that hummingbird processor is better than snapdragon and that's why I started this thread.
I own an HD2 (snapdragon) and SGS (hummingbird).
I've run linpack and quadrant in both phones and here are the results showing that snapdragon is 4 to 5 times faster.
Hummingbird: linpack 13,864 quadrant CPU 1456
Snapdragon: linpack 63,122 quadrant CPU 4122
I'm only talking for the CPU cause if you go to 3D I'll agree that hummingbird is better (but I don't care about 3D cause I don't use my device for games)
Both phones have android 2,2 installed and I have voodoo lagfix installed in SGS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
After looking into it for a while, I was focusing on what makes the Nexus One so much better than the other phones. On the chip level, I didn’t see it. Then it dawned on me to look at what Google had to say on the matter. Well, it was there in black and white. In their 20 May 2010 Developer’s Blog entry (http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2010/05/android-22-and-developers-goodies.html) they say that people could see a 2-5x speed increase. I think it is pointed out in an entry later in the blog dealing with NDK, which I initially missed: “ARM Advanced SIMD (a.k.a. NEON) instruction support The NEON instruction set extension can be used to perform scalar computations on integers and floating points. However, it is an optional CPU feature and will not be supported by all Android ARMv7-A based devices. The NDK includes a tiny library named “cpufeatures” that can be used by native code to test at runtime the features supported by the device’s target CPU.”
So, I guess this means that NEON is the difference. If your phone’s CPU has it and it’s enabled for JIT, you can expect higher Linpack numbers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.greenecomputing.com/2010...ack-scores-so-mucher-higher-than-on-my-phone/
Now stop making topics like this.
the difference you notice is software related
If you want a real test, run a hd video on both phones, or a psx emulator and see if the nexus one is 5x faster... it is the same if not slower then the sgs
Well, SGS got hardware h264 decoding acceleration. Also, maybe you forget, but:
he Hummingbird comes with 32KB each of data and instruction caches, an L2 cache, the size of which can be customized, and an ARM® NEON™ multi-media extension.
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Click to collapse
SAMSUNG and Intrinsity Jointly Develop the World's Fastest ARM® Cortex™-A8 Processor Based Mobile Core in 45 Nanometer Low Power Process
Advanced SIMD (NEON)
The Advanced SIMD extension, marketed as NEON technology, is a combined 64- and 128-bit single instruction multiple data (SIMD) instruction set that provides standardized acceleration for media and signal processing applications. NEON can execute MP3 audio decoding on CPUs running at 10 MHz and can run the GSM AMR (Adaptive Multi-Rate) speech codec at no more than 13 MHz. It features a comprehensive instruction set, separate register files and independent execution hardware. NEON supports 8-, 16-, 32- and 64-bit integer and single-precision (32-bit) floating-point data and operates in SIMD operations for handling audio and video processing as well as graphics and gaming processing. In NEON, the SIMD supports up to 16 operations at the same time. The NEON hardware shares the same floating-point registers as used in VFP.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
source: wiki
This means Hummingbirds are equipped with NEON. Why its not so effective/used in Quadrant/Linpack? My guess they (these benchmarks) are not compiled/optimised for Hummingbirds, just for Snapdragons.
I came from owning an iPhone and playing lots of games on it. I bought the SGS purely for the gaming performance of the Hummingbird processor.
Having seen the difference in game quality between the HTC Desire and the SGS, I know I made the right decision. Benchmarks don't mean anything.
As long as the device can run apps, games, multimedia smoothly, I dont care much about those benchmarkers, maybe they were designed and/or optimized for snapdragon prior to hummingbird.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
i bet you anything he actually doesn't have a sgs...lol
jealousy maybe just a troll, ignore
In terms of overall smoothness (everything, not just games) the SGS is vastly superior to any other android phone I've seen (Desire included).
Darkimmortal said:
everything
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Click to collapse
Really? You have to go all out and use the word "everything" when the phone can get major lockups?
"most things" sounds like a more reasonable and believable choice of words...
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
My friends I do own an SGS (not happy with it thought) and the tests that I posted were run from me.
I wasn't talking about the gaming performance (I know that SGS is the best out there)
This thread was started so that we can find an answer why is this happening?
I see some answers that cover it but I believe not completely because in everyday use of the phones I see that HD2 is snappier (not much but it is) than SGS (with lagfix).
The best test I believe would be to put the phones to encode something (like a video) but I don't know any software that could do that. (If anyone knows some please point them to me and I'll be happy to post the results here)
The tests you mention with psx and multimedia won't show as what we're looking because the SGS will clearly win because of the GPU.
johcos said:
My friends I do own an SGS (not happy with it thought) and the tests that I posted were run from me.
I wasn't talking about the gaming performance (I know that SGS is the best out there)
This thread was started so that we can find an answer why is this happening?
I see some answers that cover it but I believe not completely because in everyday use of the phones I see that HD2 is snappier (not much but it is) than SGS (with lagfix).
The best test I believe would be to put the phones to encode something (like a video) but I don't know any software that could do that. (If anyone knows some please point them to me and I'll be happy to post the results here)
The tests you mention with psx and multimedia won't show as what we're looking because the SGS will clearly win because of the GPU.
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man. if you are not happy, then i think you should sell it. no one here will give you a satisfying answer that warm your heart. look for desire hd or something.
to answer ur questions. i get a 2100+ on quadrant. using voodoo fix and oclf on my eclaire. lag free and smooth as butter.
but either way, these test scores mean nothing. they were not designed for samusng hardware. it was designed based on htc and the snapdragon processor.
even people who use neocore for gpu are wrong. if you wana test the gpu performance, use nenamark1. the sgs gives u 49+ fps while the desire HD struggle to give u 35. while if you use neocore. the sgs gives u 56 while desire hd 58
my point is most of those software were designed with htc hardware in mind. so you cant really compare them.
just test your device for your self. apply whatever best roms you find here. if it doesnt lag and smooth for you. then ^^^^ everyone else.
the display alone is worth keepin the sgs for me. sure people might like i phone 4 display more. but nothing in my eyes come close to the contrast and colors of the super amoled. watching a movie or playing a game is a joy in this device.
hell yesterday evening a local htc store had a demo of desire hd. and the guy was nice enough to me play with it for like 1 hour.
device as a hardware look. its friggin sexy as hell. screen ? beauitful large 4.3 screen. quality colors compared to sgs ? fail. a lil slow and laggy " i am sure its because of the firmware. once roms are out, it will be faster "
i was thinking to change to desire hd honestly. but i wake away from the store kissing my sgs.
i love the desire hf look and feel. but as of now its not as smooth as my sgs. and the screen isnt as vibrant.
Psx emulator does not use the gpu...yet
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android53 said:
Psx emulator does not use the gpu...yet
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
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Click to collapse
this. i played king of fighters on my hd2 and it was laggy as hell
smooth as butter on my galaxy s
to be honest. the day psx4droid use gpu. galaxy owners are in heaven.
Its unlikely it ever will though, even modern pc emulators barely use the gpu, only for anti aliasing
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johcos said:
My friends I do own an SGS (not happy with it thought) and the tests that I posted were run from me.
I wasn't talking about the gaming performance (I know that SGS is the best out there)
This thread was started so that we can find an answer why is this happening?
I see some answers that cover it but I believe not completely because in everyday use of the phones I see that HD2 is snappier (not much but it is) than SGS (with lagfix).
The best test I believe would be to put the phones to encode something (like a video) but I don't know any software that could do that. (If anyone knows some please point them to me and I'll be happy to post the results here)
The tests you mention with psx and multimedia won't show as what we're looking because the SGS will clearly win because of the GPU.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why in hell woul you want to incodea video using a smartPHONE...?
It's like trying to fit your family and grocery in a sport car... not made for this bro!
stop trying to find reason to "not like" the SGS, if you don't like it, sell it and be done...
Snapdragon/Hummingbird scores in glbenchmark (nexus one/galaxy s):
integer: 20661/27624
float: 11173/7968
I guess glbenchmark uses native C code (hopefully with armv7 optimization), so the JIT compiler has no effect. From the scores it seems that the floating point unit in Snapdragon is faster - but most of the time it is not used (except video & games).
Anyway, a benchmark to measure the same algorithm in both native & java code with scalar & vector instructions would be great...
t1mman said:
Why in hell woul you want to incodea video using a smartPHONE...?
It's like trying to fit your family and grocery in a sport car... not made for this bro!
stop trying to find reason to "not like" the SGS, if you don't like it, sell it and be done...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
he's not whining, well, not in the first place and i don't see any harm on that i think he's trying to UNDERSTAND reasons behind numbers and daily use with help of other people, so am i. if i had to sell phones for every problem i encounter i will problaby be without (smart)phone at this time
i don't care about benchmarks, but if you think that sgs is smoother than hd2 xda optimized (with wm 6.5 or android 2.2) you obviously never owned an hd2 i'm not talking about games, like johcos says galaxy s performance is not questionable. but android is not all about game. anyway, i don't think hardware is the problem here, sure sgs is superior in many aspects, we know that, regardless benchmarks (even if it seems here that only benchmarks where sgs win are trustworthy, others are not good, not optimized, not realistic, meaningless for real life performance etc.). with a little help from samsung and this community sgs will soon outperform (in real usage) all snapdragon phones. i hope
...when average men talk about the high tech w/o knowledge, boo
ll_l_x_l_ll said:
man. if you are not happy, then i think you should sell it. no one here will give you a satisfying answer that warm your heart. look for desire hd or something.
to answer ur questions. i get a 2100+ on quadrant. using voodoo fix and oclf on my eclaire. lag free and smooth as butter.
but either way, these test scores mean nothing. they were not designed for samusng hardware. it was designed based on htc and the snapdragon processor.
even people who use neocore for gpu are wrong. if you wana test the gpu performance, use nenamark1. the sgs gives u 49+ fps while the desire HD struggle to give u 35. while if you use neocore. the sgs gives u 56 while desire hd 58
my point is most of those software were designed with htc hardware in mind. so you cant really compare them.
just test your device for your self. apply whatever best roms you find here. if it doesnt lag and smooth for you. then ^^^^ everyone else.
the display alone is worth keepin the sgs for me. sure people might like i phone 4 display more. but nothing in my eyes come close to the contrast and colors of the super amoled. watching a movie or playing a game is a joy in this device.
hell yesterday evening a local htc store had a demo of desire hd. and the guy was nice enough to me play with it for like 1 hour.
device as a hardware look. its friggin sexy as hell. screen ? beauitful large 4.3 screen. quality colors compared to sgs ? fail. a lil slow and laggy " i am sure its because of the firmware. once roms are out, it will be faster "
i was thinking to change to desire hd honestly. but i wake away from the store kissing my sgs.
i love the desire hf look and feel. but as of now its not as smooth as my sgs. and the screen isnt as vibrant.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Honestly couldn't agree anymore, even with all the problems the SGS has. The screen+hardware combination is just too overwhelming for me to swap the phone for something else.
I have to go and pay my bill up to date tomorrow. I am very seriously thinking about the evo shift for obvious reasons. Does anyone have any thoughts on this subject or actually bought it? I'm interested in what you have to say.
herbthehammer said:
I have to go and pay my bill up to date tomorrow. I am very seriously thinking about the evo shift for obvious reasons. Does anyone have any thoughts on this subject or actually bought it? I'm interested in what you have to say.
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Click to collapse
I'm not really sure what those obvious reasons are. The EVO Shift 4G has a slower processor, worse GPU, smaller screen, LCD instead of SAMOLED, and on all other points save Android 2.2 just about comes even with the Epic 4G. It's an attractive phone, and it probably has reasonable build quality (haven't had one in my hands yet) but I fail to see why it would be worth switching from an Epic 4G for.
Trade the best phone on sprint for a midrange phone? GREAT IDEA. /s
Electrofreak said:
I'm not really sure what those obvious reasons are. The EVO Shift 4G has a slower processor, worse GPU, smaller screen, LCD instead of SAMOLED, and on all other points save Android 2.2 just about comes even with the Epic 4G. It's an attractive phone, and it probably has reasonable build quality (haven't had one in my hands yet) but I fail to see why it would be worth switching from an Epic 4G for.
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Click to collapse
I don't believe the processor is slower. Just because it has a slower clock speed doesn't make it slower.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
True...but its slower. Hummingbird is the fastest mobile processor until the dual cores come out.
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Electrofreak said:
I'm not really sure what those obvious reasons are. The EVO Shift 4G has a slower processor, worse GPU, smaller screen, LCD instead of SAMOLED, and on all other points save Android 2.2 just about comes even with the Epic 4G. It's an attractive phone, and it probably has reasonable build quality (haven't had one in my hands yet) but I fail to see why it would be worth switching from an Epic 4G for.
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Click to collapse
the only really good thing with the sliding keyboard is that it has no spring for it to kick out/back in. so less of a chance of it snaping/breaking anything. but its annoying to slide it. quadrant score on my store demo got 1298. beat our demo Evo by 200. so its not too bad actually for speed
I could swap phones with my old lady. She's got my evo. She doesn't really care about bigger badder better. Stuff I didn't like with the evo was its battery life, the radios were kinda deaf, and it wasn't very tolerant to temperature in the summer. Taking samsung out of the picture really narrows down the choices.
Yes, I'm impatient waiting for the real samsung update. That's my issues of obvious reasons. Plus, there's a lot of community development for htc compared to epic. Which will come first, official froyo or final (not beta or rc) cyanogen? That is the 164,000 dollar question. No 4g love either yet. I know, I'm ungrateful and too picky...
My wife traded her transform for one today, it pulled a 1634 in quadrant and over 34 in linpack before we left the parkinglot... maxed at 59fps too. 100% stock obviously.
Sent from my HERO200 using XDA App
I'm due 4 an upgrade in Feb..it was going to be an evo but damn that phone flys!
Sent from my HERO200 using XDA App
nope itll take something better than the epic for that
id love an epic with no 4g
it seems largely based off the g2 to me...so it should be similar?
And even though its 800mhz, its still better than the Evo's at 1ghz.
Also, it should be a whole lot more dev friendly since htc likes to use the same stuff, so it should be easy to OC it to a stable 1.6ghz like the g2 or a 2ghz unstable bull
But I think that'd still be a major downgrade from the epic.
The only upside in my opinion is the better development its guaranteed to have,or atleast easier development since its basically already been worked on so much as the Desire Z
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
muyoso said:
Trade the best phone on sprint for a midrange phone? GREAT IDEA. /s
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Click to collapse
I'm going trade my epic in tomorrow for a sanyo m1 lol
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
No, but I am jumping ship for the atrix!
Boo
raylusk said:
I don't believe the processor is slower. Just because it has a slower clock speed doesn't make it slower.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Trust me, it's slower. I'm a tech blogger and I've written about Hummingbird and Snapdragon. Google "Hummingbird vs. Snapdragon" and click the first link.
The Hummingbird beats Snapdragon MHz for MHz in processing power due to some heavy tweaking by the engineers at Intrinsity (which is now owned by Apple, the bastards!)
The MSM7630 in the HTC Knight is Qualcomm's 2nd-Gen "low-end" Snapdragon. It's not really a Snapdragon per se (Qualcomm chose to omit that brand from the MSM line of SoCs), but it's got the Scorpion CPU inside which is the backbone of the Snapdragon platform. It features a better graphics GPU than its Snapdragon predecessors, an Adreno 205 instead of an Adreno 200, which just about doubles graphics performance from what I've seen. However, it still doesn't come close to the PowerVR SGX540 our Epic 4G is rocking, which is still nearly twice as powerful as the Adreno 205. One other improvement the MSM7630 has is that it's manufactured on the 45 nm feature size, whereas the first-gen Snapdragons like the one in the EVO 4G are running on a 65 nm process, and are significantly less power efficient. The Epic 4G however already is on the 45 nm process and achieves about the same level of power efficiency.
From a hardware standpoint, going from an Epic 4G to an HTC EVO Shift 4G is a downgrade in every way.
Electrofreak said:
Trust me, it's slower. I'm a tech blogger and I've written about Hummingbird and Snapdragon. Google "Hummingbird vs. Snapdragon" and click the first link.
The Hummingbird beats Snapdragon MHz for MHz in processing power due to some heavy tweaking by the engineers at Intrinsity (which is now owned by Apple, the bastards!)
The MSM7630 in the HTC Knight is Qualcomm's 2nd-Gen "low-end" Snapdragon. It's not really a Snapdragon per se (Qualcomm chose to omit that brand from the MSM line of SoCs), but it's got the Scorpion CPU inside which is the backbone of the Snapdragon platform. It features a better graphics GPU than its Snapdragon predecessors, an Adreno 205 instead of an Adreno 200, which just about doubles graphics performance from what I've seen. However, it still doesn't come close to the PowerVR SGX540 our Epic 4G is rocking, which is still nearly twice as powerful as the Adreno 205. One other improvement the MSM7630 has is that it's manufactured on the 45 nm feature size, whereas the first-gen Snapdragons like the one in the EVO 4G are running on a 65 nm process, and are significantly less power efficient. The Epic 4G however already is on the 45 nm process and achieves about the same level of power efficiency.
From a hardware standpoint, going from an Epic 4G to an HTC EVO Shift 4G is a downgrade in every way.
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do you think it would be possible for you to do the same type of review on the camera for the epic against the evo and the iphone 4g? I read your last blog on the processors, and I must say dude im prety technical and you blew me away with your analysis!
boominz28 said:
do you think it would be possible for you to do the same type of review on the camera for the epic against the evo and the iphone 4g? I read your last blog on the processors, and I must say dude im prety technical and you blew me away with your analysis!
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Eh, I'm not a photo guy, I don't do cameras. I don't know jack about all that stuff and I'm afraid I wouldn't do a very good job. :-\
I have been getting bugged to do a review of Cortex-A9 (specifically Tegra 2, Orion, OMAP 4400 etc) as well as the 2nd/3rd gen Snapdragons, but I'm working on my CCNA and MSCITP certifications right now and I'm trying not to let myself get too distracted; once I start researching and writing all of my spare time gets flushed down the crapper!
flawlessbmxr said:
the only really good thing with the sliding keyboard is that it has no spring for it to kick out/back in. so less of a chance of it snaping/breaking anything. but its annoying to slide it. quadrant score on my store demo got 1298. beat our demo Evo by 200. so its not too bad actually for speed
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the5ifty said:
My wife traded her transform for one today, it pulled a 1634 in quadrant and over 34 in linpack before we left the parkinglot... maxed at 59fps too. 100% stock obviously.
Sent from my HERO200 using XDA App
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Click to collapse
The problem is that you guys are using Quadrant and Linpack. Snapdragon CPUs always perform better in Quadrant because it isn't a well-built benchmark. Linpack is fooled by Snapdragon's Virtual Floating Point extension.
I'd like to see the scores it gets on Smartbench 2010, a new benchmark tool that I'm still not sure I trust completely but definitely seems to be more accurate than Quadrant.
herbthehammer said:
I could swap phones with my old lady. She's got my evo. She doesn't really care about bigger badder better. Stuff I didn't like with the evo was its battery life, the radios were kinda deaf, and it wasn't very tolerant to temperature in the summer. Taking samsung out of the picture really narrows down the choices.
Yes, I'm impatient waiting for the real samsung update. That's my issues of obvious reasons. Plus, there's a lot of community development for htc compared to epic. Which will come first, official froyo or final (not beta or rc) cyanogen? That is the 164,000 dollar question. No 4g love either yet. I know, I'm ungrateful and too picky...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you guys read any posts from the senior members/devs? QUADRANT IS A JOKE. It caters toward snapdragon SoC's quadrant means nothing in R/L speeds.
sent from my brain telepathically :-D
herbthehammer said:
I have to go and pay my bill up to date tomorrow. I am very seriously thinking about the evo shift for obvious reasons. Does anyone have any thoughts on this subject or actually bought it? I'm interested in what you have to say.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if you're gonna trade-in, trade-in for an upgrade like a Tegra 2 chipset phone. Not a downgrade to a HTC Swift.
FYI, Sprint has no Tegra 2 phones in their stables right now.
Go with the Evo 4g , or something other than a Samsung phone I just swapped it for my wife's Evo and I don't regret it!support wise is a lot better (meaning custom roms, etc...). The only thing I miss is the SAMOLED thats it. The Evo Shift feels very smooth just like a G2 and once someone ports that Desire Z rom its going to be very nice!
For me, the most important downgrade would be the lack of a front-facing camera on the Shift. When I am deployed, it would be much nicer to be able to video-chat with my wife when I can find a wifi spot with my Epic.