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As much as we say don't accept system updates, there are people who will still do it.
Or people who have no option because they got the phone after 8/2/2010.
Let's start talking about workarounds.
I'm assuming the flash lite method has been patched up.
Considering that was a pretty darn slick method I'm not sure that we can pull through with a new exploit!
I'm sure it will be more of an issue once the Evo is sold with Froyo on it.
For now, its not since users were warned many times about the update breaking root.
I have faith in the developers. I just don't feel sorry for current users that updated, knowing the risks involved with any updates. However, I will feel bad for those that buy the Evo with Froyo pre-installed.
I did the OTA (first one) and don't need you to feel sorry for me. I knew what I was doing and am fine with doing it. I will patiently wait for root when it is available. No worried that they won't find it. they always do.
I think more importantly is to stop asking them for it. They will get it done when they get it done. It is kind of an accomplishment to be the one to post the root. Someone will find it. Trust me, they are on it and they will find it when they do.
So...let's all stop asking.
Dunno if you guys have seen this. I didn't notice because I usually only hang around here but it just got posted to reddit so I saw it.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=913045
If true, it would definitely explain a lot of things. It does make me dislike Samsung, but hopefully the carriers can strong-arm Samsung into doing what everyone else is doing.
Personally, I bought this phone because it was either this or the Droid X, and the difference was that while the DX might have Froyo now, the odds of Motorola putting Gingerbread on it are less than 100%, and the odds of it getting anything after that are even lower, and with the locked bootloader you can't do anything about it. With the Fascinate, at least we can look forward to community built ROMs for some time into the future, definitely past what Samsung is willing to do (I figure they're never going to even consider putting Gingerbread on the Fascinate what with the LTE phones coming out soon, and SAMOLED+ and all that). People should probably avoid Samsung unless they specifically want the nice hardware and easy hacking, in which case it seems like Samsung is the most lax with security so they're the best choice for hacking.
Hmm, very enlightening, of it's true of course. Sounds entirely plausible though. Oh well, I really don't care anymore, not with kaos and friends on the job.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
This is what we all expected.
But the question is... Why was it released with Eclair when Froyo was released before this phone was released.
wasn't the reason it was released with eclair because of the 1.6 ril or whatever? from what i read, the ril would barely work with eclair and no way for it to work with froyo.
my understanding is that a large part of the magic that kaos is doing was to build a functional ril.
They arent building a new ril. They are hacking android around the current crap ril Samsung gave us.
Don't buy it.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
upsidedownaaron said:
wasn't the reason it was released with eclair because of the 1.6 ril or whatever? from what i read, the ril would barely work with eclair and no way for it to work with froyo.
my understanding is that a large part of the magic that kaos is doing was to build a functional ril.
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Click to collapse
That's what jt's been doing, and he ended up just hacking the current Samsung RIL to work. And if you follow his twitter, he said that the RIL from Eclair, Froyo, and Gingerbread on the Android side didn't change much which is why they're jumping straight to Gingerbread instead of wasting time with Eclair.
upsidedownaaron said:
wasn't the reason it was released with eclair because of the 1.6 ril or whatever? from what i read, the ril would barely work with eclair and no way for it to work with froyo.
my understanding is that a large part of the magic that kaos is doing was to build a functional ril.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Um, wow, what have you been reading? First off, our phone came with 2.1, not 1.6, so I'm not sure where you got that number from.
Secondly, the reason that we (not Samsung) could not build a ROM not based on the stock OEM ROM was because the source code for the RIL that Samsung provided for the Fascinate was bad code, which made it extremely difficult to create a working RIL what will work with a custom OS. However, jt1134 and punk.kaos were able to reverse engineer the bad code into working code, in order to proceed with ROM building.
This has nothing to do with Samsung themselves though. Samsung built the RIL to begin with, so they most certainly can (and have) created RIL code that works with Froyo, quite a long time ago in fact. They released the Galaxy S line with Eclair because that was likely the newest version available when they began developing the OS for those phones. In order to convert the OS to Froyo to launch it on the phone, they would have had to significantly delay the launch, which was not an option. This is likely why so many phones are released with outdated versions of Android. And I would like to point out that if they just put Google's code on there and didn't insist in polluting it with their own proprietary junk, it wouldn't take so long to release in the first place, and wouldn't be so difficult to upgrade later.
Getting back on topic, I figured that the problem with getting these updates really all comes down to money. People have always had to pay for OS upgrades for PCs, but due to Android and iOS, have now come to expect to receive these updates for free. The problem is, somebody has to develop an upgrade process, and test the heck out of it, and those developers have to get paid. So the OEM pays them, and then naturally tries to pass the cost along to the carrier, because they don't want to work for free. The carrier also doesn't want to pay for the upgrade, but also knows they can't get away with charging their customers for it without significant backlash, so they basically just sit there and hope the problem eventually goes away, or that the OEM will finally back down and release the update for free, which is what's been described as our current situation.
If this is really such a big problem, they could be taking steps to not end up in this situation, such as figuring the cost of these upgrades into the price of the phones and/or rate plans. However, the carriers also have added incentive to not push for the upgrades, because that effectively extends the life of the handset, and they want you to keep buying new hardware all the time, since they make money from selling hardware, and lose money on the free upgrades.
In the end, it's all about money. Thankfully we have such a great community of developers here on XDA that are willing to go the extra mile to not only get us our upgrades, but also add cool features and boost the performance way beyond what the manufacturer gave us. Thanks to that, our hardware's lifetime is determined not by when a carrier or OEM pulls support, but rather by when the devices physically die or break, or the hardware becomes too outdated for the tasks we wish to perform. And this way, through donations, we can pay our developers for good upgrades, not our carrier for crappy, bloated ones.
Im not saying its true but the most legitimate explanation for all this bull**** I have actually heard in a while. So for what its worth Im not going to shoot that down. Possibly true at this point.
Sent from my fascination station using XDA App
ivorycruncher said:
Um, wow, what have you been reading? First off, our phone came with 2.1, not 1.6, so I'm not sure where you got that number from.
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Mrbirdman said it himself, actually. (1.5, but close enough).
http://twitter.com/#!/_mrbirdman_/status/3002051533479936
Anyway, I don't know whether to believe this but it explains why no US carriers have Froyo yet. It's kind of frustrating that Verizon is the only carrier that hasn't even had a leaked Froyo build it seems. Damn ingrates spoiling leaks for the rest of us.
Ah, I see. Thanks for the link. I admit that tweet came before I followed him on twitter, so I hadn't seen that. I can see how that would complicate matters though.
This is the last farkin' time I ever buy a Samsung phone. Shame on me for believing their lies when they said they'd support it.
If that user is really violating an NDA, he's already fired, and the XDA admins would be hearing from lawyers demanding they remove the thread.
Sounds like it's just more trumped up bull**** designed to stir up the masses. Who knows really, but all I know is I wasn't stupid enough to purchase a phone based on future "promises."
Jake_Mongoose said:
This is the last farkin' time I ever buy a Samsung phone. Shame on me for believing their lies when they said they'd support it.
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Click to collapse
You might wanna rethink that. Why, you ask? Because Samsung puts out some of the best hardware available, especially the screens, and we always have devs that can hack up the code to make it better than it ever would have been with a stock ROM. HTC isn't too bad, though the issue with rooting the G2 is certainly raising some eyebrows, but if you were thinking about Motorola, have fun with your locked bootloader and other fun tricks that attempt to squash community development. Aside from lousy source code, Samsung phones are the easiest to root and customize due to the unlocked bootloader. You can basically just flash anything you want with ODIN, no problem.
It is not necessarily the case in the future because Tab reportedly has locked boot loader. This said people already found workaround, but who knows?..
That is true. Nobody knows what the future holds. In any case, if you have no problem loading custom software from XDA devs on your phone, then OEM software support should not even be on the list of requirements when buying a phone. I now make my phone purchasing decisions purely based on hardware specs and quality. If it's a quality piece of hardware with the features I want, on my carrier of choice (Verizon), I will buy it, regardless of manufacturer or UI. Warranties and insurance work the same no matter who makes it, and software updates come from XDA, so nothing else really matters. But then again, that's just my opinion.
ivorycruncher said:
That is true. Nobody knows what the future holds. In any case, if you have no problem loading custom software from XDA devs on your phone, then OEM software support should not even be on the list of requirements when buying a phone. I now make my phone purchasing decisions purely based on hardware specs and quality. If it's a quality piece of hardware with the features I want, on my carrier of choice (Verizon), I will buy it, regardless of manufacturer or UI. Warranties and insurance work the same no matter who makes it, and software updates come from XDA, so nothing else really matters. But then again, that's just my opinion.
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Yup, this is how I've decided to make phone decisions from now on as well. As long as the phone's software can be replaced by XDA, I don't care too much about the manufacturer's updates.
J Shed said:
If that user is really violating an NDA, he's already fired, and the XDA admins would be hearing from lawyers demanding they remove the thread.
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Click to collapse
It is easier to hide posting on a forum than it is sending a tip into an online news outlet, at least in general. Also, by posting it in a forum, it is entirely likely that it will be up for longer than it would be if posted at say, Engadget, because it takes longer for news to show up in major outlets if posted in a forum first as opposed to a news site. If it were posted at Engadget or another tech blog, they are likely watched over very closely for potential NDA breaches, etc. I doubt Samsung looks are random forums/subforums/threads nearly as close.
IF it were $$ couldn't we as users pay like $20 for Froyo...
x 3 million phones = more than enough to pay for DEV
I don't buy it.
Why?
Because these companies work off of contracts. Verizon would know exactly what they were getting into before signing. If Samsung decides to breach said contract, fine, let Verizon sue the hell out of them. Lastly, Verizon would not have sold or marketed docks that rely on 2.2, if they had no intention of releasing it.
Actually one more thing. If US Carriers were refusing, Samsung would halt development. We are seeing new leaks for the other US models all the time, and Verizon is still being worked on (but not leaked).
This is a case of where 2+2=5=false.
I absolutely love reading our SF dev forum. Despite being confident enough to root/flash, I'm one of those folks holding out for the official release, given that I haven't been waiting as long as most of you. So here's my observation:
The people making the most noise about Froyo (or lack thereof), are likely running it right now its leaked (beta) form. Samsung must know this. Is anybody else concerned that this might sway their timetables since some of the incentive has been relieved? I won't even delve into "leak might have been intentional for appeasement" factor. It's probably not very productive to think about this but knowing the internals of companies like this, along with the promises made by Samsung during CES, I can't help but wonder.
Skrazz said:
Is anybody else concerned that this might sway their timetables since some of the incentive has been relieved?
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Click to collapse
I don't see this as even a remote possibility. Samsung has sold over 10 million Galaxy S phones (worldwide). The percent of users that not only have simply rooted, but actually installed a leaked version of 2.2 is, I'm sure, not even a blip on the radar screen. I don't think the users here are representative in any way of the owners as a whole. So while we may see certain things as an issue, I don't think it makes one bit of difference in Samsung's plans or timetables.
Heres my theory, these "leaks" are let out purposely... for all of us to test and for them to gather info from the forums. Then they tweak, fix bugs, then release. Hundreds or even thousands of unpaid crash test dummies running these beta roms through everyday life to expose all the bugs...what do you think of that?
Sent from my stock 2.1
unrooted, fully bloated (for now) Fascinate
Nonsense.
If they were "leaked purposefully" the devs wouldn't have to go to so much trouble to clean out watermarks in order for them to be distributed
BS
Companies have there own test cycles (QA scripts) etc...
now if i was a engineer working on a phone: i can see him/her leaking out version of code to see what issues problems develop. No company would do such a thing.
onemotodroid said:
BS
Companies have there own test cycles (QA scripts) etc...
now if i was a engineer working on a phone: i can see him/her leaking out version of code to see what issues problems develop. No company would do such a thing.
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Click to collapse
Your crazy to think no company would do this... why not? Its all about money and accomlishing as much as you can while paying out as little as possible. There are no rules or morals. Their test scripts could never put the software through as much as us in such a short amount of time. What if you owned the company?
Sent from my stock 2.1
unrooted, fully bloated (for now) Fascinate
I used to think this was likely, but realize now that too many variables are introduced for any data they gather to be useful. Merging the DL30 leak with CM, AOSP, root apps, etc. doesn't provide them with much useful info regarding the performance of DL30 on the average bloated phone. And that is where they need it to work.
ziggy484 said:
Your crazy to think no company would do this... why not?
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Click to collapse
Sure, some companies release official, private and sometimes public beta versions of software to help in testing. But whenever it's done, they provide clear, established means for users to submit error reports which often include some sort of memory dump to aid in pinpointing problems.
Now consider that just to get 2.2 on our phones, we've had to be rooted and we're using the kernel and rom with a mismatched baseband. Now consider that the majority of people aren't even using the stock rom, but a cleaned or otherwise modified version. Now consider the number of people who're using one of the many further modified themes.
No company seriously looking to test software would even entertain wasting the time to follow the reports of people who've hacked the system half way to hell and back. Just getting 2.2 on our phones introduces so many variables as to make any discovery of issues worthless - there's just no way to determine what might be causing the problem.
And I'm not criticizing anything we do, I'm thrilled to have 2.2 running, bugs and all. I'm just saying there's no way in hell Samsung reps are following these forums to report on any issues we might find.
ehhh... I can see what your saying, but i think theres a good chance they are interested in what goes on here.
Sent from my stock 2.1
unrooted, fully bloated (for now) Fascinate
Samsung does not condone nor sanction any software leaks. Its quite the opposite.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
Thanks for the great replies! It is a bit silly to suspect Sammy of something as shady as that... I shall embrace DL30's promise!
http://www.vampii.com/dcom/componen...-x-bootloader-already.html/blogger/czerdrill/
Indeed I saw a presentation from a guy who worked for a major phone hardware company recently about recent advances in 'locking down' hardware. They are getting better and closing more loopholes with every generation. 2048-bit encryption, complete trust chains, burying sensitive traces, chip-swapping detection and on and on. Even digging right into the hardware it is getting harder and harder to find weaknesses if the manufacturer is determined to lock something down.
If you look at older phones like Droid X and Milestone that still haven't cracked there is almost no chance the Atrix has a weakness unless someone majorly goofed or there is a leak.
Well there is one 4th option that I think that what devs are trying to do and, IMO, is the real meaning of cracking: Finding a security hole and exploit it.
But as haloimplant already mentioned that's highly unlike to happen...
Unfortunately nothing said was news to me. I gave up a long time ago when my Milestone never got cracked.
Mods still make the phone fun, but it's night and day different of what you can do with say a Galaxy S...
Until applications stop supporting Froyo/Gingerbread/ICS/whatever the final update Motorola pushes is, I dont see the need for a custom kernel. Stuff like 2init that allow everything but the kernel to change would be enough for almost everything you'd want to do. As long as Motorola pushes semi-recent kernels, we should be ok.
From what I've read, in the bootloader bounty topic, we have something close to release.
Bootloader might not ever get cracked completely, but there are certainly ways around it. Look at the iPhone, they can modify it with various levels of exploits. (iBoot, ramdisk, userland) and they don't have it cracked completely.
Also, number 3 on that list could be pure speculation, or it could be complete truth. There could be hundreds of people that know it, or just 1.
PixoNova said:
From what I've read, in the bootloader bounty topic, we have something close to release.
Bootloader might not ever get cracked completely, but there are certainly ways around it. Look at the iPhone, they can modify it with various levels of exploits. (iBoot, ramdisk, userland) and they don't have it cracked completely.
Also, number 3 on that list could be pure speculation, or it could be complete truth. There could be hundreds of people that know it, or just 1.
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Click to collapse
+1. Us Atrix users obviously don't have the userbase that iDevices have, but we have the *new* nVidia chipset, there are bound to be holes. Some talented dev needs to find it. But we have like 1/20 the users that iDevices have. And like 1/1000 of those are devs. But coming as a jailbreak dev on the iPhone. Im gonna take a plunge and see myself.
Sent from my screaming Atrix *4G* using the XDA App
Jotokun said:
Until applications stop supporting Froyo/Gingerbread/ICS/whatever the final update Motorola pushes is, I dont see the need for a custom kernel. Stuff like 2init that allow everything but the kernel to change would be enough for almost everything you'd want to do. As long as Motorola pushes semi-recent kernels, we should be ok.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Motorola will have an "Official Gingerbread" out this year. Will they have an "Official ICS"? Highly doubtful
There will be partial ICS available through mods, but why play the waiting game when the update is available and easy to flash? Most of the waiting is for sales/marketing purposes anyway.
^ Look at the HTC Desire, Froyo was available to be installed early last summer. One major carrier didn't release it till Halloween. Guess what, the "Official version" was the exact same as the leaked version (I used both to compare). Then there's the T-mobile Galaxy S "Froyo incident" (which everyone knows that story by now). Verizon Fascinate, (the list goes on and on).
The average Joe will sit around and wait for an OTA, but the average XDA user knows better.
That's why any exploits found on the Bootloader will still better than nothing...
PixoNova said:
From what I've read, in the bootloader bounty topic, we have something close to release.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seriously? Will it allow us to finally get rid of blur via another Rom?
So I don't know about you guys, but I am tired of waiting for ICS. Even more so I am tired of there being not a word spoken about the progress of the update from Google, Sprint, or Samsung. Being that I am still paying the phones subsidized price to Sprint with my monthly payments, I have taken my complaints to their official forum.
http://community.sprint.com/baw/community/buzzaboutwireless/phones-and-devices/samsung/nexus_s_
I encourage all of you that are tired of the silence of these companies to please join me on Sprints forums and voice your complaints. Maybe if enough of us speak up someone will realize it is better to have transparency even when things go wrong.
*I know some of you will say quit complaining and flash a rom. I know what my options are, but that does not excuse these companies for treating us the way that they are. Sprint should not be advertising the Nexus S 4G as receiving "OS updates as soon as humanly possible"*
I've been wondering this for a while.. when the ota update comes out, do you (as in everyone who's waiting for it) plan on using it?
Drop w/e custom ics rom you might have with performance tweaks, themes, status bar toggles, settings you'd never get in a stock rom, etc. etc.?
"treating us the way that they are"? Maybe you've forgotten that Google pulled the first ics update because of issues, and they already have 4.0.5 planned, ics is obviously having issues.
Don't get me wrong, i can definitely understand the frustration with no news about anything at all. I can see your reasoning for complaining to Sprint about that.
i dunno, I'm just curious as to why everyone is freaking out over it. imo they should be pestering Google to release the 4.0.4 source for us to fix some things in our roms, instead of bothering the carrier
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk
kyouko said:
I've been wondering this for a while.. when the ota update comes out, do you (as in everyone who's waiting for it) plan on using it?
Drop w/e custom ics rom you might have with performance tweaks, themes, status bar toggles, settings you'd never get in a stock rom, etc. etc.?
"treating us the way that they are"? Maybe you've forgotten that Google pulled the first ics update because of issues, and they already have 4.0.5 planned, ics is obviously having issues.
Don't get me wrong, i can definitely understand the frustration with no news about anything at all. I can see your reasoning for complaining to Sprint about that.
i dunno, I'm just curious as to why everyone is freaking out over it. imo they should be pestering Google to release the 4.0.4 source for us to fix some things in our roms, instead of bothering the carrier
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pestering Google would be the more direct approach for sure. But they already got their money for these phones. Sprint on the other hand I am still paying and will continue to pay (if I don't move to another carrier). So Sprint seems to be the more logical source to complain to and maybe if enough people pester them, they will in turn force Google to be more transparent. Because as is, it looks like Google could give a ****.
Ah alright, that makes more sense to me now. Thanks for the response
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk
kyouko said:
I've been wondering this for a while.. when the ota update comes out, do you (as in everyone who's waiting for it) plan on using it?
Drop w/e custom ics rom you might have with performance tweaks, themes, status bar toggles, settings you'd never get in a stock rom, etc. etc.?
"treating us the way that they are"? Maybe you've forgotten that Google pulled the first ics update because of issues, and they already have 4.0.5 planned, ics is obviously having issues.
Don't get me wrong, i can definitely understand the frustration with no news about anything at all. I can see your reasoning for complaining to Sprint about that.
i dunno, I'm just curious as to why everyone is freaking out over it. imo they should be pestering Google to release the 4.0.4 source for us to fix some things in our roms, instead of bothering the carrier
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, I would never give up my mods & tweaks, etc....but I would love to have a stock rom with all those tweaks, mods, themes, kernels, etc. added on to it. IMHO, stock roms are almost always stable beasts! Honestly, at this point, I am doubting whether or not sprint even cares enough to let us know what's going on with the update. We're now over 2 months since the first official ota was pushed to nexus s and the devs here have already beaten the bloody hell out of sprint in releasing working roms, with brand new radios, bootloaders, and all. Granted, the bootloader & radio were ripped from a leaked rom, but still....we've got over a dozen working roms before the people who have full access to schematics, closed source code, etc. could even get one out.....and that's just plain sad!!
Has anyone gotten this OTA yet? I can't even find one person that has. It's making me think that it was a false leak, maybe that's already well known though...
patokeefe said:
Has anyone gotten this OTA yet? I can't even find one person that has. It's making me think that it was a false leak, maybe that's already well known though...
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Click to collapse
Umm.. Its called a leak because it was err.. leaked... It was an OTA update that wasn't released yet and still hasn't been. Doesn't make it a false leak, just means they still aren't ready to release it.
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk
Is he possibly talking about the leaked release date of the ota ics update, the one of the screenshot from a Sprint webpage showing Sprint saying the update will be released on February 16th???? I think he might have been asking if anyone got the ota update that this was showing. I personally think that it was a misprint and the update will be released on March 16th, as there is another leaked piece saying the NEXUS S update will be released in mid March.
KID ANDROID said:
Is he possibly talking about the leaked release date of the ota ics update, the one of the screenshot from a Sprint webpage showing Sprint saying the update will be released on February 16th???? I think he might have been asking if anyone got the ota update that this was showing. I personally think that it was a misprint and the update will be released on March 16th, as there is another leaked piece saying the NEXUS S update will be released in mid March.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly.
I should clarify, the substance of the leak-the date if the alleged OTA update-was false.
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk
Looks like Sprint is still sytematically deleting posts of their users and paying customers on their forum.
Go here and see before it is deleted: http://community.sprint.com/baw/thread/85388?start=0&tstart=0
"Nexus S 4g and ICS-where is it?
Why were these posts deleted? Why are you still trying to hide what is going on instead of answering my questions? There was nothing in these posts that was your content to delete. markie_b stated that posts that had Sprint property (screenshots) were deleted because of that, but why are these deleted?
POST 1
"@markie_b "the opportune word here is leaked which means someone is putting information out there before it is due and therefore Sprint has the right to delete any information"
Just because it was leaked does not make it any less true. There was a banner at the top of the page when Sprint employees logged into Dara and ISC. It was there for two days at least. Many different Sprint employees confirmed this as true. So deleting the screenshot and links to this image just makes it look like Sprint is trying to hide something. Which you are. Sprint messed up. Plain and simple. Maybe you guys should admit this and try to give us more information than just wait for ICS because we know nothing. We all know you and every other Sprint employee know nothing. You guys should work on changing that. Instead of hiding mistakes and staying silent on what is going on with an update, you should be proactive in letting us know every step of the process you are on in geting the update out. The source has been available for 3 months now, that is more than enough time to get the radios working. As I have said before we are all still paying Sprint for these phones. We deserve to be treated better. On a side note you should realize the Nexus is a developer phone. You are not dealing with your average Android phone users here. We will notice every single mistake you make and come looking for answers every time.
@aysdojo Why would you think it was an internal release? How many Sprint employees do you think still even own an NS4G? On top of that there is no system in place for Sprint to only push updates to Sprint employees. So how would they even accomplish an internal release?
@14knight So would you mind explaining why another post created by mattsholtz23 that asked why Sprint is advertising the Nexus S 4g as "OS updates as soon as humanly possible" were outright deleted and the member banned? There was no "leaked" information in that post. It was a simple question that was deleted instead of just being answered. It look like Sprints policy is to delete any post on here that makes them look bad. Instead of being up front and admitting when they do things wrong. A screen shot has been taken as proof of this post."
POST 2
"I must assume that you have trouble reading, as all proof needed was inside of last post. You must realize that you are asking for proof of things that do not exist, i.e. a way for Sprint to roll out releases only to employees all the while excluding every other NS4G owner on their network. This is like asking someone to prove that Santa Clause does not exist. The proof he does not exist is that no one has ever proven that he does exist. The same goes for Sprints secret employee OS upgrade system that you somehow beleive in. Like I said before, it would have been heard of by now through employee leaks, considering that the OP is about Sprint internal leaks this is something Sprint has a problem with. Also of note is that the one internal rollout you cited from Google had leaked screenshots of ICS (I guess you would have had to of read the article though) hitting Google+ and Twitter within hours of the actual rollout to employees. Further illustrating my point. I would also like to point out that I have answered your questions twice now with you still never answering my one question to you. Why do you believe this was an internal rollout? Any other post by you will be ignored as I must assume you are trolling and are hijacking the thread, considering your last 2 posts have not had a single fact in them and were all opinion, and that you never answered my one question to you. Now back to the real questions I would like to see answers to. I am still waiting Markie_B and 14Knight."
A screenshot has been taken as proof of this post, as have all my other posts."
And another one that was deleted:
"@dreamcat1138 You are correct. Not only does the NS4G have weak radio problems, but it is all Samsung devices that have signal issues. Samsung is notorious for using under powered radios inside of it's handsets. http://www.androidcentral.com/nexus-s-users-hows-your-wifi-strength http://www.androidcentral.com/are-you-having-radio-issues-your-nexus-s-4g-poll http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/Google+Mobile/thread?tid=34ad876196cb21c4&hl=en http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/Google+Mobile/thread?tid=72cde4a29b9021c3&hl=en http://forums.androidcentral.com/sp...e-wifi-radio-wifi-tethering-crashes-data.html Tweet from Engadget's Mobile editor - https://twitter.com/#!/zpower/status/15800092652998657 http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1714413 http://pocketnow.com/android/samsung-epic-4g-touch-hits-radio-problems-fix-promised http://pocketnow.com/android/epic-4g-touch-signal-loss-fix-coming-soon-user-leaks-it-early http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=24345 http://www.theverge.com/2011/12/21/...signal-problem-fix-coming-meter-being-changed Trust me I could go on. Basically all Samsung devices including the Nexus S 4G have horrible radios. Just look at some of the other posts in Sprints Nexus S forum. There are more than one post asking when the radios would be fixed on the NS4G, and they always have the same answer. It's in the next update. Yet with the last 3 update the NS4G recieved that were supposed to fix the radio issues, they never did. And now we are being told it will be in the ICS update. That is untrue as there is no fix for the radio ssues, it is a hardware issue, and the only fix for that is not buying a Samsung phone. Screenshots have been taken as proof of this post."
Here are even more that were deleted.
"Why was the screen shot and link to the image of the leak deleted? Why does Sprint feel that hiding their mess ups is gonna help? It is all over the web, we already know. Why don't you take the time to admit your mistakes and tell us what is going on, instead of deleting posts banning members and deleting pictures. Is this really Sprints stance, to hide facts and lie to it's paying customers? Every person on this Nexus board is still paying for their phones with their contracts. Why are we being treated this way? Screenshots have been taken as proof of this post."
"So you don't believe everything you read on the internet, yet you believe the rumor one guy (not a Sprint employee) posted on this forum that this was an internal rollout. As that one guy (techguy379) is the only and original source that this was an internal rollout, and looking at his other posts, he knows absolutely nothing about what Sprint is doing. Not to mention that if it was an internal rollout wouldn't the Sprint employees who leaked these screen shots have known that, as they are internal employees. I personally know for a fact that one of the screen shot leakers/posters was himself an NS4G owner, wouldn't it make sense that he would have been one of the internal testers, since he owned the phone the test was taking place on and was himself an internal employee of Sprint? The proof that Sprint or any other prvider has never done an internal rollout to test an OS on their employees is that we would have heard about it, on Twitter, Facebook, and XDA. Do you really think Sprint could control leaks from their 18 year old work force. Most companies can't even control leaks from their programers and coders. Come on. You also just proved yourself wrong, as Google is the only company that does internal rollouts of Android to test OS updates. Since they are the ones who make it. There has and never been a single reported case of a service provider (Sprint, Verizon, AT&T, T-Mobile) ever internally testing an OS update on their work force, and that is because they don't. Really you are just making yourself look silly. I am sure Sprint can take care of defending themselves without your ill informed help."
*update* Looks like nexuss4glies was banned and most posts deleted.
Here is a full account of what is going on at Sprint's forums.
http://sprintlies.tumblr.com/
Here is a reddit link as well http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/pyaow/a_full_record_of_how_sprint_is_deleting_its_users/
Your sense of entitlement is ridiculous at this point.
These updates take time, there is a massive amount of testing that has to happen before you release an update that could potentially brick hundreds of thousands of phones in one day. When working with a wireless carrier they must also test to make sure the radio is working properly with the network as well, in a variety of environments and situations.
If any problem comes up during these tests it has to start over again, if google has decided that 4.0.5 needs to be developed before they can re-test it, it's up to them. Google has never once stated a release date for ICS on our phones, sprint had it on an internal website for employees only (which could be a fake shot), not out there for public consumption. It's likely they are testing it internally and still awaiting approval somewhere down the line.
Just calm down, or just install the leak if you are really truely that desperate. The OTA will come out in due time and you'll look back at this and wonder how you could be so unreasonable.
They are releasing it as fast as humanly possible. Humans make mistakes, bugs can sometimes regress and appear again. Humans are flawed, humans write flawed code. Would you rather have a broken update or one that's stable enough to roll out to everyone?
Google, Sprint, and AT&T could all handle this better with some actual communication. However, I don't think any of them are holding back ICS intentionally. They are obviously working out issues and when they feel it is ready, they will release it. I'm not sure what the original poster is trying to gain by this crusade.
bozzykid said:
Google, Sprint, and AT&T could all handle this better with some actual communication. However, I don't think any of them are holding back ICS intentionally. They are obviously working out issues and when they feel it is ready, they will release it. I'm not sure what the original poster is trying to gain by this crusade.
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I am trying to gain some transparency. I never stated that I thought ICS was being held back. But lets face it, there is no money in updating phones. The money is in selling them. I do believe that if more resources were put into development of updates it would result in faster updates. You would think this would be a priority for Google, at least with their flagship line of Nexus phones. Really, if this is what the "Nexus Experience" is supposed to be, then I am not on board. Second Sprint should have never sold this phone as a Nexus experience with "updates as soon as humanly possible" because the NS4G is not updated like the other GSM devices. Even Google has pulled CDMA Nexus's from it's Nexus developer page basically admitting that the update process works differently than the real (GSM) Nexus devices. I have a feeling this will all be happening again in a year when updates are needed for the Verizon and Sprint Galaxy Nexus.
My main goal is to draw attention to Sprint's and Google's mistakes as this whole process couldn't have been any more messed up. The more people that start criticizing these companies when they blatantly screw up the better off we will be in the long run. Staying silent for this long is just not the right way to be treating your customers. Especially when those customers are mainly the developers (Nexus devices are developer phones) who bolstered your OS to the number one OS in the world.
petrochemicals said:
My main goal is to draw attention to Sprint's and Google's mistakes as this whole process couldn't have been any more messed up. The more people that start criticizing these companies when they blatantly screw up the better off we will be in the long run. Staying silent for this long is just not the right way to be treating your customers. Especially when those customers are mainly the developers (Nexus devices are developer phones) who bolstered your OS to the number one OS in the world.
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I don't think creating a blog full of screenshots of you ranting at community managers (that have no sway or special information, or right to speak on sprint's behalf) is helping at all.
Explain what you think 'as fast as humanly possible' means in the context of a highly complex and sensitive phone software rollout. There is a lot that could go wrong and delay an update, you know the update is coming. You are not paying a monthly fee for updates to your phone, find me the line in your phone contract that says that. A line on a product's website isn't a contractually binding agreement, maybe false advertising. If you wanted to prove that however you'd need proof that google and sprint engineers weren't even working on porting the software, and we know they are.
IMHO this is a little silly. Why does it even matter at this point? Almost every single ROM that is developed or being developed is ICS. We already have it so why would we need ota?
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using xda premium
Bauxite said:
I don't think creating a blog full of screenshots of you ranting at community managers (that have no sway or special information, or right to speak on sprint's behalf) is helping at all.
Explain what you think 'as fast as humanly possible' means in the context of a highly complex and sensitive phone software rollout. There is a lot that could go wrong and delay an update, you know the update is coming. You are not paying a monthly fee for updates to your phone, find me the line in your phone contract that says that. A line on a product's website isn't a contractually binding agreement, maybe false advertising. If you wanted to prove that however you'd need proof that google and sprint engineers weren't even working on porting the software, and we know they are.
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Yes it is false advertising. The Nexus S 4G was falsely advertised by Sprint to me and everyone else when purchasing it, as receiving "OS updates as soon as humanly possible". As for the definition I would consider it to be defined as the first time they released the OS back in December of last year. Google is to blame for making a shoddy OS that didn't work when it was released. If they would bother actually putting any real kind of money into the development and work force that does design these updates, then maybe it would have worked the first time they released it. But like I said before there is no money in updates, so the development of them will reflect that. Just like we have seen here.
Why you feel the need to protect billion dollar companies, I am not really sure. Any kind of company like these should be criticized constantly, otherwise they will walk all over us, just as they are in this situation. The bottom line is Sprint and Google have screwed up. The more attention that is drawn to that fact, the better. More transparency is needed in Sprint and Google's relationship with their customers and that is not going to be fixed by people like you that are making excuses for them.
petrochemicals said:
Google is to blame for making a shoddy OS that didn't work when it was released. If they would bother actually putting any real kind of money into the development and work force that does design these updates, then maybe it would have worked the first time they released it. But like I said before there is no money in updates, so the development of them will reflect that. Just like we have seen here.
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And you just lost the argument entirely. Android 4.0 was developed for one phone at the start, the Galaxy Nexus, they stated it would come to the Nexus S eventually. Your argument is that the software is crap because they haven't written the device drivers fast enough for you. You want them to release broken software because you are entitled to fast updates.
Apparently to you 'as fast as humanly possible' means something entirely different, where humans are perfect creatures that never make coding mistakes. And on the off chance that the code was perfect to start it still takes time to TEST, time that has paid off already because they would have released a buggy update.
You can't just hire more engineers and throw more money at something to make it go faster. You assume your monthly WIRELESS USAGE fees go towards software development for one of sprint's 20+ phones. They don't.
Get over your false entitlement, they don't owe you anything.
lol @ people getting angry over ICS not being released yet
.... clearly you didn't have an Epic 4g and have to wait from September to March of the next year for Gingerbread.... we have nothing to complain about here in the NS4g forums
Quite honestly, yes the wait sucks, but it'll be worth it to not have the same type of bugs as NS3G users on TMobile and other international carries are facing. I used OICS then went back to gingerbread in December and have been waiting until the official OTA because I know it'll be better than ANY of the roms we have yet! Yes Sprint sucks, but they're trying to protect us. Also, as aforementioned by snowmanwithahat, at least we aren't like Epic 4G users and waiting 6 months or the other countless people in 2 year contracts not even on GB. Plus, no other phone that isn't a Nexus S has gotten the OTA yet so until then I'm still happy. I will, however, be furious if any other Sprint phone gets it first... Just my 2 pennies...