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Dear all, I found this in another forum and please let the number grow!
http://www.petitiononline.com/a6262/petition.html
I would sign this if it didn't have the fact that they are obligated to provide the update, they have no obligation at all as the product in its current form with 1.5 is fit for the purpose. The 2.1 update is to provide extras in a way and not a firmware update its a complete os change. (well kind of)
I also would like the update asap but to the amount of people on probably all the development sites they are fully out numbered by the users who dont mess with the software 50 fold for the hero so HTC dont really care tbh.. and i know that for a fact
Adding new functionality to an old phone that will hamper the sales of other new 2.1 phones is the conflict any company would undergo as the projected sales are most definitely effected by an update like this!!
Defo sucks... shame HTC cant just release the sources and the pressure to bring out the rom wouldn't be as great.
@anarchyUK: I disagree that HTC aren't obligated to provide Android 2.1 for the Hero.
Had they NOT made public announcements, confirmed 'rumours' to be true in reply to probably hundreds of bloggers' queries (email or otherwise) and even stated expected release dates for the Hero 2.1 update, then one could argue that they are not obligated to provide it. However after making so many promises to Hero users and still not being able to deliver is downright pathetic of them. Nobody forced them to say 1.6 was coming to the Hero, or 2.0 for that matter, OR 2.1. They're the ones who made the announcements, and they're the ones who are obligated to stick to their word now.
I for one am ticked off to the point of never supporting them by getting an HTC phone again. It's even more infuriating when you consider that 1) the Legend has most exactly the same hardware WITH 2.1 support, and 2) independent developers have managed to put together reasonably stable 2.1 builds for both the GSM and CDMA Hero, all WITHOUT access to Hero-specific drivers/kernels or what not (I'm not sure exactly what it is modding devs need to perfect their builds, but you get the idea) that HTC have hidden away for God knows what; doesn't seem like its doing them any good, all they do is keep pushing back their release dates.
So HTC can go to hell as far as I'm concerned. I'm not signing the petition because even if they released the update in the next hour, I will not be getting it out of principle (more stubborn-ness though). I'd rather support the hard-working independent devs because at least they give a **** about Android, and not about how much money they'll get.
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They are obligated to provide a new firmware because 1.5 is BUGGY!
Nonsense.
I agree that I would love to have the 2.x update yesterday but the current 1.5 is rock solid. It never crashed on me and works like a charm.
The only reason I would like the 2.1 update is because of the improvements on the bluetooth stack and the improved voice functions.
i think they delayed 2.1 release cause they haver moved most of there developers to there new devices and the team working on the hero update is probably very small now, if anyone has noticed how buggy these 2.1 leaks are with battery drainage camera color errors, the slowness, i think its the right move for them to delay the release of the update until these issues are sorted
They are not obliged in any way to provide 2.1 because 1.5 is buggy, they are obliged to make every attempt to fix the bugs within 1.5. (uk sales of good act and eu regulations) And for the other responses saying they have announced it and that makes them obliged? are we in make believe land now?
The update is good will from HTC if anything. I think HTC releasing this when they do is a very different thing compared to other companies like nokia who would rather release 10 other variants of a phone instead of upgrading a s60 3rd edition to a 5th edition...
Considering the Hero I have is on a 24 month contract I dont really think banging on about it like people do is really worth the bother. My point being a petition is pointless.
If they're delaying it, they're delaying it for a good reason.
@anarchyuk: From your second post I got the feeling you are talking about 'obligated' in the legal sense...FYI I was talking about them making good on their word. I do realize that they are not legally obliged to provide the 2.1 or other updates, but like I said, we didn't ask for it first, they said they'd release it and got everyone's hopes up. No fault of the users to complain if HTC cannot deliver.
shahid.malik said:
From your second post I got the feeling you are talking about 'obligated' in the legal sense...FYI I was talking about them making good on their word. I do realize that they are not legally obliged to provide the 2.1 or other updates, but like I said, we didn't ask for it first, they said they'd release it and got everyone's hopes up. No fault of the users to complain if HTC cannot deliver.
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I agree in the loyalty sense they are obliged to deliver a promise, but that wasn't aimed at your post it was mainly at the "because 1.5 is buggy they have to release 2.1" train of thought.
who knows what the main reasons behind the delay are but I can guarantee it has some link to money!!
Hopefully the development section for the X10 will kick into gear and then it is bye bye to HTC phones for the time being for me!
I'd rather wait an extra month or two and get a stable, finished product than get a hastened, buggy release, another wave of whining about how evil HTC are to release a buggy software. Some people cannot be pleased.
Sent from my Hero using the XDA mobile application powered by Tapatalk
kyods said:
I'd rather wait an extra month or two and get a stable, finished product than get a hastened, buggy release, another wave of whining about how evil HTC are to release a buggy software. Some people cannot be pleased.
Sent from my Hero using the XDA mobile application powered by Tapatalk
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Lets be clear here, HTC have released 2.1 with Sense for the Legend, and internally this device is almost identical to the Hero. Therefore, we can be reasonably certain that the reason for the delay is not because it is unfinished or buggy - at least no more so than the version they've shipped on the Legend.
IMHO, it is a marketing decision pure and simple, so that it doesn't affect early sales of the Legend and Desire. They did much the same when they released Sense UI for the Magic some months after the Hero had shipped, despite the fact that the hardware was again very similar.
Regards,
Dave
It's certainly possible, however if the hardware wasn't an issue here, we'd already have plenty of fully-working ROMs ported from the Legend. All the 2.1 ROMs I've tried so far, however, are more or less buggy, which makes me believe the situation is not that simple as it would seem. Still, I'm not a programmer, so it's just a wild guess of mine.
kyods said:
It's certainly possible, however if the hardware wasn't an issue here, we'd already have plenty of fully-working ROMs ported from the Legend. All the 2.1 ROMs I've tried so far, however, are more or less buggy, which makes me believe the situation is not that simple as it would seem. Still, I'm not a programmer, so it's just a wild guess of mine.
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I didn't say that the hardware wasn't an issue - I said that the Legends hardware is almost identical to the Hero's. If HTC had already released the
kernel source for Legend, I'd wager that porting it to the Hero would be comparatively trivial (especially when compared to manually updating 2.6.27 to 2.6.29!) and we'd have fully working ROMs in well less than 2 months!
That being said, I find the latest Villain ROMs (5.2/5.3) are pretty much feature complete and the only issue I have with them is the less than stellar battery life (which I'm sure is a kernel issue).
Regards,
Dave
foxmeister said:
That being said, I find the latest Villain ROMs (5.2/5.3) are pretty much feature complete and the only issue I have with them is the less than stellar battery life (which I'm sure is a kernel issue).
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My feelings exactly. That's why I'm not bothered much with HTC's official ROM being delayed.
maybe the battery issue is the reason it hasnt been released
Looking from a business perspective on petitions,all this will do is annoy HTC to the point where they will say "well,**** you all then!we work our asses off to give them a brilliant update and they try to force us into releasing it sooner.They can stay on 1.5 and we will concentrate on the newest models"
Everyone is getting agitated because they stupidly believed rumours,now they have supposedly said June.until I see on Twitter they have released it,I wont believe any new threads on the 2.1 update!
Basically a petition will just piss them off.How much would you like some people telling you to work fastr?
kyods said:
It's certainly possible, however if the hardware wasn't an issue here, we'd already have plenty of fully-working ROMs ported from the Legend. All the 2.1 ROMs I've tried so far, however, are more or less buggy, which makes me believe the situation is not that simple as it would seem. Still, I'm not a programmer, so it's just a wild guess of mine.
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You're under a misapprehension here. Current custom 2.1 roms aren't buggy because the leaked htc code is buggy. They're buggy because the custom 2.1 rom builders don't yet have access to the 2.1 gsm Hero kernel. All they have to go on are the old kernel & kernels for alternative hardware. It is obvious, more than likely, why 2.1 hasn't been released yet.
Threads about this are boring enough at the best of times, but when posters back up false claims with unsound arguments it dilutes what little value the thread might have had remaining.
Threads about this are boring enough at the best of times, but when posters back up false claims with unsound arguments it dilutes what little value the thread might have had remaining.
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...word!
THAT won't happen. I don't even think HTC will read those petitions, no stakeholder cares about them so it's just wasted time. And thinking that such a petition could cause HTC to react childish as you said is just not realistic. They are in it for the money, and they need happy customers. Thats why we will get 2.1 at some point.
bonesy said:
Looking from a business perspective on petitions,all this will do is annoy HTC to the point where they will say "well,**** you all then!we work our asses off to give them a brilliant update and they try to force us into releasing it sooner.They can stay on 1.5 and we will concentrate on the newest models"
Everyone is getting agitated because they stupidly believed rumours,now they have supposedly said June.until I see on Twitter they have released it,I wont believe any new threads on the 2.1 update!
Basically a petition will just piss them off.How much would you like some people telling you to work fastr?
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"Sprint expects to launch Android 2.2 in the near future" (except Hero and Moment)
A bit misleading... Link goes to Sprint's BAW forum where the excitement quickly turned to anger about Sprint abandoning currently shipping phones and users stuck in contracts. Despite the headline, only the Evo will be getting the 2.2 upgrade from Sprint.
Originally Posted by twitter.com/sprint:
Sprint expects to launch Android 2.2 in the near future - http://bit.ly/d0HRgj
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From Sprint link...
SprintEmployee JGatSprint says:
... 2.2 will not be available for HTC Hero or Samsung Moment
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I thought that when 2.2 was announced at the big Google press event, HTC's CEO was quoted as saying that all currently shipping HTC phones would be getting the upgrade...? I'll see if I can dig up that quote.
Ah, nevermind. I found the quote and it was regarding 2.1.
I just saw the tweet, and I don't think it includes the hero, but I did hear something on that about them getting 2.2..
Sent from my HERO200 using XDA App
cool! good job for sprint!
radxcoresteven said:
I just saw the tweet, and I don't think it includes the hero, but I did hear something on that about them getting 2.2..
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No, you heard that all currently available Android phones would be getting the 2.1 update. That was when all us Hero owners were clamoring for the 2.0 upgrade.
Oh, and the good news is that we don't need HTC or Sprint to do this for us. We're fortunate enough to have a community of developers that are working hard to put out a Froyo update compatible with the Hero. Remember to tip them well, kiddos, because Sprint just left you behind. Oh, and tell your Sprint rep that this is why you rooted your phone.
They're melting down over at the official sprint forums.
gunnyman said:
They're melting down over at the official sprint forums.
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Drop a bomb that size, you better expect nuclear fallout. If darchstar, damageless and TrevE can get Froyo on the Hero, Sprint and HTC could as well. They just want people to keep upgrading. Good business sense; poor customer support.
All you need to do is have enough of publicity about this and they'll have to do something about it.
Imagine top tech headlines;
"Sprint drops support for currently shipping phones... refuses to update firmware", "Would you trust Sprint again...", "Angry Sprint Android owners demand a refund"
...and the last one "Sprint agrees to update older android phones’ software after many complaints from customers"
obsanity said:
All you need to do is have enough of publicity about this and they'll have to do something about it.
Imagine top tech headlines;
"Sprint drops support for currently shipping phones... refuses to update firmware", "Would you trust Sprint again...", "Angry Sprint Android owners demand a refund"
...and the last one "Sprint agrees to update older android phones’ software after many complaints from customers"
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Good luck with that. I'm not sure they care. It's business. Besides, like I said, just tell them these types of decisions are why *ahem* some dude you know *cough* rooted his phone and he knows some guys that are working on putting 2.2 on the Hero right now.
subcypher said:
Oh, and the good news is that we don't need HTC or Sprint to do this for us. We're fortunate enough to have a community of developers that are working hard to put out a Froyo update compatible with the Hero.
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Posts like this are a pet peeve of mine. Not to discredit the great work that the community dev's do, but community generated ROMs that are cobbled together from other devices are NOT the same as vendor-genuine ROMs from HTC/Sprint. While in MANY ways the community ROMs are far superior, they lack the hardware-specific code (kernel drivers, etc...) that only the OEM can provide. Consistently, the most stable and fully-functional community ROMs are those based off of hardware-accurate vendor ROMs (like Fresh, based off of the shipping RUU). The ROMs derived from other devices are far more likely to have caveats such as "fully-functional except for the camera, sensors, martini shaker, ..." (I don't know what part of the term "FULLY-functional" is unclear to some devs).
While it is inevitable that the community devs WILL create a 2.2 ROM, it will not be of the same caliber that would be possible with a genuine vendor ROM to use as a starting point.
i guess you havent run. darchdroid heh
Sent from my HERO200 using the XDA mobile application powered by Tapatalk
cmccracken said:
Posts like this are a pet peeve of mine. Not to discredit the great work that the community dev's do, but community generated ROMs that are cobbled together from other devices are NOT the same as vendor-genuine ROMs from HTC/Sprint. While in MANY ways the community ROMs are far superior, they lack the hardware-specific code (kernel drivers, etc...) that only the OEM can provide. Consistently, the most stable and fully-functional community ROMs are those based off of hardware-accurate vendor ROMs (like Fresh, based off of the shipping RUU). The ROMs derived from other devices are far more likely to have caveats such as "fully-functional except for the camera, sensors, martini shaker, ..." (I don't know what part of the term "FULLY-functional" is unclear to some devs).
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Darch Droid is fully functional now. Took some time to get things figured out but now that he knows how to get it working. It shouldn't be any issue on future releases...once we get kernel code.
Not to mention that, our drivers are there in these roms, just quirky.
cmccracken said:
Posts like this are a pet peeve of mine. Not to discredit the great work that the community dev's do, but community generated ROMs that are cobbled together from other devices are NOT the same as vendor-genuine ROMs from HTC/Sprint. While in MANY ways the community ROMs are far superior, they lack the hardware-specific code (kernel drivers, etc...) that only the OEM can provide. Consistently, the most stable and fully-functional community ROMs are those based off of hardware-accurate vendor ROMs (like Fresh, based off of the shipping RUU). The ROMs derived from other devices are far more likely to have caveats such as "fully-functional except for the camera, sensors, martini shaker, ..." (I don't know what part of the term "FULLY-functional" is unclear to some devs).
While it is inevitable that the community devs WILL create a 2.2 ROM, it will not be of the same caliber that would be possible with a genuine vendor ROM to use as a starting point.
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Doth mine ears deceive me? Are you saying that just because an Android developer works for HTC and Sprint that he's better than the hobbyists that hang out here? I think you missed the whole point of open source.
And, yes, fully-functional may take some time, but it usually happens. Kernel and drivers always come out and are adjusted as needed. As gunnyman said, Darchdroid 2.7 is fully functional. My point is that they're doing what they're doing and doing it well. Sprint/HTC could do it, but they're choosing not to, forcing users to upgrade. Again, one of the benefits of open source.
So, why the pet peeve? I'm just curious. I'm not sure if you're serious or trolling. You're on these forums, so either you're into custom ROMs or you're some kind of troll. If you're into ROMs, why are you bashing devs, because whether you meant to or not, that's what you're doing with this post. You're basically saying, "Cool painting, Picasso, but you'll never be Monet." WTF?
subcypher said:
Good luck with that. I'm not sure they care. It's business. Besides, like I said, just tell them these types of decisions are why *ahem* some dude you know *cough* rooted his phone and he knows some guys that are working on putting 2.2 on the Hero right now.
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I gotta keep this phone until next March so I'm kinda stuck unless I wanna shell out 500 for another phone with this one is 2.5 months old. Well, I don't want to and I can't afford to play this game. So, when we get a 2.2 for the Hero that works like it's supposed to I can hopefully stick with Flipz FreshROM and i'm donating at least 50 to that guy. Between him, Damage and all the other guys with the time and skill to do this they've earned 100x that.
subcypher said:
And, yes, fully-functional may take some time, but it usually happens. Kernel and drivers always come out and are adjusted as needed. As gunnyman said, Darchdroid 2.7 is fully functional. My point is that they're doing what they're doing and doing it well. Sprint/HTC could do it, but they're choosing not to, forcing users to upgrade. Again, one of the benefits of open source.
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cmcraken has a point though, Darchdroid is only fully functional because it is based on the 2.1 RUU made specifically for the hero. Until that RUU hit the streets, every previous 2.1 ROM was handicapped in some form or other. If Sprint/HTC doesn't develop a 2.2 RUU specifically for the Hero, the best the devs will be able to do is get us as close as possible, but never spot on.
subcypher said:
Doth mine ears deceive me? Are you saying that just because an Android developer works for HTC and Sprint that he's better than the hobbyists that hang out here? I think you missed the whole point of open source.
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I'm saying that the community developers will never have access to the resources that the vendor devs do. They will never have access to the low-level engineering data that the vendors keep behind locked doors, nor the source code for things like SenseUI. Reverse engineering can only get you so far.
I understand full well what the point of open-source is. the problem is that these phones as a whole are definitively NOT open-source. Only a small portion of the total package is open-source, and even a major portion of that (the Linux kernel source code) is a colossal PITA to get our hands on. Despite the open-source sales pitch on Android phones, they aren't very open-source in implementation.
cmccracken said:
I'm saying that the community developers will never have access to the resources that the vendor devs do. They will never have access to the low-level engineering data that the vendors keep behind locked doors, nor the source code for things like SenseUI. Reverse engineering can only get you so far.
I understand full well what the point of open-source is. the problem is that these phones as a whole are definitively NOT open-source. Only a small portion of the total package is open-source, and even a major portion of that (the Linux kernel source code) is a colossal PITA to get our hands on. Despite the open-source sales pitch on Android phones, they aren't very open-source in implementation.
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I see your point and concede to you on this. Well played, sir. I think, though, that given the status of what has come before, that we can expect great things from reverse engineering. Hopefully, with the things I've been reading about Google and Android specifically, that things will change with Froyo. I've heard rumblings about making Android one package, the things HTC wants to do another package and the things Sprint wants to do a third package, that way Android updates can continue and the other guys have to keep up if they want us using their stuff.
Longshot? Yes. The way it should be? Yes.
subcypher said:
Longshot? Yes. The way it should be? Yes.
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Ditto. The vendor support (or lack thereof) and OS fragmentation is absolutely killing Android. 1.5 million iPhone 4's sold so far despite it being inferior to the Evo on all fronts. The reason? Apple. They fix bugs for their devices and provide added functionality via regular software updates. iOS 4 is provided as an upgrade to the iPhone 3G, released July 2008. Sprint can't even provide updates for a phone that's less than a year old. These Android vendors have got to get on the same page and start playing by Apple's rules if they want to compete with Apple.
subcypher said:
Drop a bomb that size, you better expect nuclear fallout. If darchstar, damageless and TrevE can get Froyo on the Hero, Sprint and HTC could as well. They just want people to keep upgrading. Good business sense; poor customer support.
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100% agree
Dunno if you guys have seen this. I didn't notice because I usually only hang around here but it just got posted to reddit so I saw it.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=913045
If true, it would definitely explain a lot of things. It does make me dislike Samsung, but hopefully the carriers can strong-arm Samsung into doing what everyone else is doing.
Personally, I bought this phone because it was either this or the Droid X, and the difference was that while the DX might have Froyo now, the odds of Motorola putting Gingerbread on it are less than 100%, and the odds of it getting anything after that are even lower, and with the locked bootloader you can't do anything about it. With the Fascinate, at least we can look forward to community built ROMs for some time into the future, definitely past what Samsung is willing to do (I figure they're never going to even consider putting Gingerbread on the Fascinate what with the LTE phones coming out soon, and SAMOLED+ and all that). People should probably avoid Samsung unless they specifically want the nice hardware and easy hacking, in which case it seems like Samsung is the most lax with security so they're the best choice for hacking.
Hmm, very enlightening, of it's true of course. Sounds entirely plausible though. Oh well, I really don't care anymore, not with kaos and friends on the job.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
This is what we all expected.
But the question is... Why was it released with Eclair when Froyo was released before this phone was released.
wasn't the reason it was released with eclair because of the 1.6 ril or whatever? from what i read, the ril would barely work with eclair and no way for it to work with froyo.
my understanding is that a large part of the magic that kaos is doing was to build a functional ril.
They arent building a new ril. They are hacking android around the current crap ril Samsung gave us.
Don't buy it.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
upsidedownaaron said:
wasn't the reason it was released with eclair because of the 1.6 ril or whatever? from what i read, the ril would barely work with eclair and no way for it to work with froyo.
my understanding is that a large part of the magic that kaos is doing was to build a functional ril.
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That's what jt's been doing, and he ended up just hacking the current Samsung RIL to work. And if you follow his twitter, he said that the RIL from Eclair, Froyo, and Gingerbread on the Android side didn't change much which is why they're jumping straight to Gingerbread instead of wasting time with Eclair.
upsidedownaaron said:
wasn't the reason it was released with eclair because of the 1.6 ril or whatever? from what i read, the ril would barely work with eclair and no way for it to work with froyo.
my understanding is that a large part of the magic that kaos is doing was to build a functional ril.
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Um, wow, what have you been reading? First off, our phone came with 2.1, not 1.6, so I'm not sure where you got that number from.
Secondly, the reason that we (not Samsung) could not build a ROM not based on the stock OEM ROM was because the source code for the RIL that Samsung provided for the Fascinate was bad code, which made it extremely difficult to create a working RIL what will work with a custom OS. However, jt1134 and punk.kaos were able to reverse engineer the bad code into working code, in order to proceed with ROM building.
This has nothing to do with Samsung themselves though. Samsung built the RIL to begin with, so they most certainly can (and have) created RIL code that works with Froyo, quite a long time ago in fact. They released the Galaxy S line with Eclair because that was likely the newest version available when they began developing the OS for those phones. In order to convert the OS to Froyo to launch it on the phone, they would have had to significantly delay the launch, which was not an option. This is likely why so many phones are released with outdated versions of Android. And I would like to point out that if they just put Google's code on there and didn't insist in polluting it with their own proprietary junk, it wouldn't take so long to release in the first place, and wouldn't be so difficult to upgrade later.
Getting back on topic, I figured that the problem with getting these updates really all comes down to money. People have always had to pay for OS upgrades for PCs, but due to Android and iOS, have now come to expect to receive these updates for free. The problem is, somebody has to develop an upgrade process, and test the heck out of it, and those developers have to get paid. So the OEM pays them, and then naturally tries to pass the cost along to the carrier, because they don't want to work for free. The carrier also doesn't want to pay for the upgrade, but also knows they can't get away with charging their customers for it without significant backlash, so they basically just sit there and hope the problem eventually goes away, or that the OEM will finally back down and release the update for free, which is what's been described as our current situation.
If this is really such a big problem, they could be taking steps to not end up in this situation, such as figuring the cost of these upgrades into the price of the phones and/or rate plans. However, the carriers also have added incentive to not push for the upgrades, because that effectively extends the life of the handset, and they want you to keep buying new hardware all the time, since they make money from selling hardware, and lose money on the free upgrades.
In the end, it's all about money. Thankfully we have such a great community of developers here on XDA that are willing to go the extra mile to not only get us our upgrades, but also add cool features and boost the performance way beyond what the manufacturer gave us. Thanks to that, our hardware's lifetime is determined not by when a carrier or OEM pulls support, but rather by when the devices physically die or break, or the hardware becomes too outdated for the tasks we wish to perform. And this way, through donations, we can pay our developers for good upgrades, not our carrier for crappy, bloated ones.
Im not saying its true but the most legitimate explanation for all this bull**** I have actually heard in a while. So for what its worth Im not going to shoot that down. Possibly true at this point.
Sent from my fascination station using XDA App
ivorycruncher said:
Um, wow, what have you been reading? First off, our phone came with 2.1, not 1.6, so I'm not sure where you got that number from.
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Mrbirdman said it himself, actually. (1.5, but close enough).
http://twitter.com/#!/_mrbirdman_/status/3002051533479936
Anyway, I don't know whether to believe this but it explains why no US carriers have Froyo yet. It's kind of frustrating that Verizon is the only carrier that hasn't even had a leaked Froyo build it seems. Damn ingrates spoiling leaks for the rest of us.
Ah, I see. Thanks for the link. I admit that tweet came before I followed him on twitter, so I hadn't seen that. I can see how that would complicate matters though.
This is the last farkin' time I ever buy a Samsung phone. Shame on me for believing their lies when they said they'd support it.
If that user is really violating an NDA, he's already fired, and the XDA admins would be hearing from lawyers demanding they remove the thread.
Sounds like it's just more trumped up bull**** designed to stir up the masses. Who knows really, but all I know is I wasn't stupid enough to purchase a phone based on future "promises."
Jake_Mongoose said:
This is the last farkin' time I ever buy a Samsung phone. Shame on me for believing their lies when they said they'd support it.
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You might wanna rethink that. Why, you ask? Because Samsung puts out some of the best hardware available, especially the screens, and we always have devs that can hack up the code to make it better than it ever would have been with a stock ROM. HTC isn't too bad, though the issue with rooting the G2 is certainly raising some eyebrows, but if you were thinking about Motorola, have fun with your locked bootloader and other fun tricks that attempt to squash community development. Aside from lousy source code, Samsung phones are the easiest to root and customize due to the unlocked bootloader. You can basically just flash anything you want with ODIN, no problem.
It is not necessarily the case in the future because Tab reportedly has locked boot loader. This said people already found workaround, but who knows?..
That is true. Nobody knows what the future holds. In any case, if you have no problem loading custom software from XDA devs on your phone, then OEM software support should not even be on the list of requirements when buying a phone. I now make my phone purchasing decisions purely based on hardware specs and quality. If it's a quality piece of hardware with the features I want, on my carrier of choice (Verizon), I will buy it, regardless of manufacturer or UI. Warranties and insurance work the same no matter who makes it, and software updates come from XDA, so nothing else really matters. But then again, that's just my opinion.
ivorycruncher said:
That is true. Nobody knows what the future holds. In any case, if you have no problem loading custom software from XDA devs on your phone, then OEM software support should not even be on the list of requirements when buying a phone. I now make my phone purchasing decisions purely based on hardware specs and quality. If it's a quality piece of hardware with the features I want, on my carrier of choice (Verizon), I will buy it, regardless of manufacturer or UI. Warranties and insurance work the same no matter who makes it, and software updates come from XDA, so nothing else really matters. But then again, that's just my opinion.
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Yup, this is how I've decided to make phone decisions from now on as well. As long as the phone's software can be replaced by XDA, I don't care too much about the manufacturer's updates.
J Shed said:
If that user is really violating an NDA, he's already fired, and the XDA admins would be hearing from lawyers demanding they remove the thread.
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It is easier to hide posting on a forum than it is sending a tip into an online news outlet, at least in general. Also, by posting it in a forum, it is entirely likely that it will be up for longer than it would be if posted at say, Engadget, because it takes longer for news to show up in major outlets if posted in a forum first as opposed to a news site. If it were posted at Engadget or another tech blog, they are likely watched over very closely for potential NDA breaches, etc. I doubt Samsung looks are random forums/subforums/threads nearly as close.
IF it were $$ couldn't we as users pay like $20 for Froyo...
x 3 million phones = more than enough to pay for DEV
I don't buy it.
Why?
Because these companies work off of contracts. Verizon would know exactly what they were getting into before signing. If Samsung decides to breach said contract, fine, let Verizon sue the hell out of them. Lastly, Verizon would not have sold or marketed docks that rely on 2.2, if they had no intention of releasing it.
Actually one more thing. If US Carriers were refusing, Samsung would halt development. We are seeing new leaks for the other US models all the time, and Verizon is still being worked on (but not leaked).
This is a case of where 2+2=5=false.
Just got done reading a petition about motorola's locked bootloader.
While sifting through the comments people made, pleading for motorola to remove their locks. I could only think of how so many members ridicule samsung. does everyone realize that they (samsung) gave us a great phone? That its almost unbrickable.. Sure froyo took a long time, but they admitted publicly that getting froyo out was a disaster and that they will take measures to make sure it won't happen again. And they even attempted to reach out to the community through samsungjohn.. even if it was just an attempt to calm the community, it shows samsung supports the community.. Or at the very least that they care about what we think and say.. Samsung could be a lot more like motorola, and completely overlook the needs and desires of the small percentage of users that our communities consist of.
my next phone will be a sgs2
Sent from my Rocking dj05, themed superdark w/o swype mod, voodoo 5, with custom boot and shutdown.. With premium xda app.
Yea. With htc following Motorola's path of locking down the bootloader, seems like samsung is one of the last to be developer friendly.
Sent from my SCH-I500
neh4pres said:
my next phone will be a sgs2
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... unless they lock that too.
Not to many people realize how special this phone will be when we can overclock to 1.6ghz, that was mention in engadget i think. But this phone rocks with root and superclean. But the majority of people dont really take the time to explore android phones and all they offer. For example businessmen, my father who is in the insurance business used his droid x for almost everything. My brother rooted it and set up everything in a much more user friendly way. But just when everyone gets upset about no froyo (official) for fascinate, they forget the beauty of android, and thats its able to be edited by developers and that its open source. We arent supposed to have froyo yet most likely every fascinate owner on this forum has froyo.
sfournie said:
But just when everyone gets upset about no froyo (official) for fascinate, they forget the beauty of android, and thats its able to be edited by developers and that its open source. We arent supposed to have froyo yet most likely every fascinate owner on this forum has froyo.
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Not to nitpick... but I'd like to just add a little bit of an aside here. There has been no official release of Froyo, which means that according to Samsung and Verizon, we shouldn't have it. (of course, some one will speak up and say "leaked builds are just a sneaky way that samsung gets free public beta testing." To that I say "maybe. But I doubt it.")
Not only that, but most of the cool mods in the dev/themes section are done to precompiled files that have been decompiled, modded, then recompiled, which takes massive amounts of time, and is a dirty process that leaves behind dead code and mismatched signatures. People are jumping through massive hoops to do something because we don't have the source code to edit it directly. Saying that the stock ROM is open, is like saying a jailbroken iPhone is open. It's only "open" because people have poured countless hours working around the restrictions of an already compiled system, using tools that took countless hours to make.
Both of these issues are actually a major gray area of the law, and if a pesky legal team got bored, it's hard to tell what kind of trouble they might be able to stir up (especially when the judicial system is all about $$).
Even after we do get the source code (which we still don't have), there are still lots of binary "blobs" of data that are already compiled, reducing the amount of control we actually have over the hardware devices and proprietary elements of the stock rom.
So Android is mostly open source, but Samsung is only as open as it wants to be. Their delay in releasing the source, bad coding, and use of proprietary code still sets them fairly in the realm of developer unfriendly. They just aren't as bad as some of the others.
GizmoDroid said:
Not to nitpick... but I'd like to just add a little bit of an aside here. There has been no official release of Froyo, which means that according to Samsung and Verizon, we shouldn't have it.
Both of these issues are actually a major gray area of the law, and if a pesky legal team got bored, it's hard to tell what kind of trouble they might be able to stir up (especially when the judicial system is all about $$).
So Android is mostly open source, but Samsung is only as open as it wants to be. Their delay in releasing the source, bad coding, and use of proprietary code still sets them fairly in the realm of developer unfriendly. They just aren't as bad as some of the others.
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I am forever grateful for the dev teams hours spent on this phone to give us something that we shouldnt have. And I agree, I think its all about the money for the phone manufacturers. The nice thing about android is that you dont pay to upgrade, but thats also their downfall because whats in it for samsung if they work hard and release something that is stable for our phones. Loyal customers which is true and a big part of their business. But for the most part, their client base is so huge, our whining doesnt even put a dent in there sales. Furthermore, Verizon doesn't care about releasing the official froyo update because they have you in a 2 year contract. And as bad as the the wait has been to get froyo, I would never switch carriers because ATT is worse IMO, but who knows now that they bought T-Mobile.
neh4pres said:
my next phone will be a sgs2
Sent from my Rocking dj05, themed superdark w/o swype mod, voodoo 5, with custom boot and shutdown.. With premium xda app.
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I've been debating getting a Bionic but in thinking more and more about it I have to agree with you. my next phone will be the Sgs2. I absolutely love my sgs even if we don't have an official froyo build, the great devs we have have me rocking a super clean voodoo that blows all my friends various moto, htc, etc devices out of the water.
Do I wish verizon and samsung pushed an official froyo build? Sure
will that lack of support stop me from getting my hands on the sgs2? Hell no.
Dalamar1320 said:
Do I wish verizon and samsung pushed an official froyo build? Sure
will that lack of support stop me from getting my hands on the sgs2? Hell no.
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+1 I agree totally!!
Pretty sure that I'm going for the sgs2 as well. Bottom line: the Fascinate has been the best smart phone I've ever owned (even as only eclair). I enjoy all the flashing of Roms and Kernels too. Its kinda made owning the phone worth it. In other words, not having official release but trying out these leaks is great fun! I'm not nearly as bent out of shape as some others are about the lack of support by Samsung/Verizon. Sure, it would be nice if they were better about software releases but I ain't losing any sleep over it.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk
SOTK said:
Pretty sure that I'm going for the sgs2 as well. Bottom line: the Fascinate has been the best smart phone I've ever owned (even as only eclair). I enjoy all the flashing of Roms and Kernels too. Its kinda made owning the phone worth it. In other words, not having official release but trying out these leaks is great fun! I'm not nearly as bent out of shape as some others are about the lack of support by Samsung/Verizon. Sure, it would be nice if they were better about software releases but I ain't losing any sleep over it.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk
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Thats cool but allegedly thats going to have a signed bootloader too.
Used my fascinating voodoo powers
it just reloads googles home page ?
CheesyNutz said:
it just reloads googles home page ?
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yup, I had a feeling that would happen after the whole bootloader brewhaha
Well damn...... I'm sure it will pop back up (with a different name ofcourse)
Sent from "The EVO" using XDA Premium
When the site became 911htc.com I had a bad felling that that was going to happen, beacuse it makes it easy to be founded, and that was not a good idea, look at what happened months ago to some streaming sites...
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App
just tried to find to weasel my way in in case it's just the front page that is redirecting but can't find anything on there. It looks like Google in miami was the one hosting since it's showing their 404 message and they're redirecting to themselves. Whoever registered it knew what they were doing and were willing to spend a little money in order to cover their tracks.
xHausx said:
just tried to find to weasel my way in in case it's just the front page that is redirecting but can't find anything on there. It looks like Google in miami was the one hosting since it's showing their 404 message and they're redirecting to themselves. Whoever registered it knew what they were doing and were willing to spend a little money in order to cover their tracks.
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Don't know about that becuase for buying an .com you need to pay with you credit card so they will only know Who are you, so they will give that info to HTC if they asked...
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App
So why did it just vanish lol ? Some legal reason ?
well that blows......there goes getting system dumps......whois shows no owner information either......
reaper24 said:
So why did it just vanish lol ? Some legal reason ?
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you tell us and we will all know
Maybe the government applied it to the internet blacklist?
http://act.demandprogress.org/sign/protect_ip_sustain/?akid=669.278294.1DGqiU&rd=1&recurring=1&t=1
mattykinsx said:
Maybe the government applied it to the internet blacklist?
http://act.demandprogress.org/sign/protect_ip_sustain/?akid=669.278294.1DGqiU&rd=1&recurring=1&t=1
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naw, it looks like 911 took it down himself. His old blog disappeared at the same time.
Better get your proxy and IRC server lists ready if they try to block the internet.
Could be the result of receiving a "cease and desist" letter. But then again we can speculate all day and never know.
just chaneged the element
I hope he returns. Leaks help make ports!!!
I want leaks of ice cream for Evo 3d!!!
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
I don't understand why stuff like this happens...Doesn't any of these involved companies realize that leaks, insider info, and other "rougue" information serve to generate hype, and therefor increased interest in their products? Developers are working on THEIR phones, creating and enhancing THEIR crappy code...People get excited on rom drops and RUU leaks!
My Evo currently runs a Sense 3.0 rom, and even though the battery live is pretty lacking (even on extended battery!), I have had the fortunate opportunity to experience what the Evo 3D is going to be like, which changed my mind from keeping the Evo to pre-ordering the 3D, even before I know when the thing actually drops!
tallguywes said:
I don't understand why stuff like this happens...Doesn't any of these involved companies realize that leaks, insider info, and other "rougue" information serve to generate hype, and therefor increased interest in their products? Developers are working on THEIR phones, creating and enhancing THEIR crappy code...People get excited on rom drops and RUU leaks!
My Evo currently runs a Sense 3.0 rom, and even though the battery live is pretty lacking (even on extended battery!), I have had the fortunate opportunity to experience what the Evo 3D is going to be like, which changed my mind from keeping the Evo to pre-ordering the 3D, even before I know when the thing actually drops!
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There are negatives you're ignoring. How about the fact that some of those leaks have lead to phones bricking?
mattykinsx said:
There are negatives you're ignoring. How about the fact that some of those leaks have lead to phones bricking?
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I doubt they're worried about that, I'm sure they would be glad to brick a few phones through here as long as they catch it before it gets pushed out OTA. The whole having thousands upon thousands of people protesting and harassing you over a leaked ROM though. You already know it got the CEOs attention, and you can bet he's wanting to know why and how it happened.
tallguywes said:
I don't understand why stuff like this happens...Doesn't any of these involved companies realize that leaks, insider info, and other "rougue" information serve to generate hype, and therefor increased interest in their products? Developers are working on THEIR phones, creating and enhancing THEIR crappy code...People get excited on rom drops and RUU leaks!
My Evo currently runs a Sense 3.0 rom, and even though the battery live is pretty lacking (even on extended battery!), I have had the fortunate opportunity to experience what the Evo 3D is going to be like, which changed my mind from keeping the Evo to pre-ordering the 3D, even before I know when the thing actually drops!
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Click to collapse
couple things you might want to consider here:
the percentage of people that get excited about ROM leaks is a very very small part of their user base.
and like matty mentioned, an unfinished code leak with possible very serious bugs does nothing to further their cause, or improve the final product. especially when they are used as ports.
in relation to this, and furthermore, I think it is a great mistake to undervalue and diminish the talents and efforts of the people writing the original source code for these ROMs by calling the work "crappy".
without any insult intended to anyones work here, less than half of the devs here are actually "writing" any code, or improving on the work of the original source writers on a base functional level. debatable, some are, but most are not. with a few exceptions, almost all of the fully functional (imho), awesome (imho) ROMs are based on finished work done by those same original coders.
when a leak drops for the Evo, if it has serious bugs, those bugs most often stay until a gold drops.
(haha, just my two cents. im fulla ****)
all that being said, I am saddened to see a great resource disappear.
What I fail to understand is why people STILL underestimate the power of the "small userbase" that you all seem to well, underestimate?
I said it once and I will say it again, we are the people who show off the stuff these upcoming phones can do by showing people the latest leak that got ported to our phones.
Not one person on this site can say they didn't have some sort of influence on the purchase of someone they know. I find that one hard to believe. and these companies know it. That's why they often do things like sale phones with unlocked bootloaders and such.
Govt. must be crackin down.. a few of the other bootlegger sites I tried to frequent this weekend were shutdown.