Dear all, I found this in another forum and please let the number grow!
http://www.petitiononline.com/a6262/petition.html
I would sign this if it didn't have the fact that they are obligated to provide the update, they have no obligation at all as the product in its current form with 1.5 is fit for the purpose. The 2.1 update is to provide extras in a way and not a firmware update its a complete os change. (well kind of)
I also would like the update asap but to the amount of people on probably all the development sites they are fully out numbered by the users who dont mess with the software 50 fold for the hero so HTC dont really care tbh.. and i know that for a fact
Adding new functionality to an old phone that will hamper the sales of other new 2.1 phones is the conflict any company would undergo as the projected sales are most definitely effected by an update like this!!
Defo sucks... shame HTC cant just release the sources and the pressure to bring out the rom wouldn't be as great.
@anarchyUK: I disagree that HTC aren't obligated to provide Android 2.1 for the Hero.
Had they NOT made public announcements, confirmed 'rumours' to be true in reply to probably hundreds of bloggers' queries (email or otherwise) and even stated expected release dates for the Hero 2.1 update, then one could argue that they are not obligated to provide it. However after making so many promises to Hero users and still not being able to deliver is downright pathetic of them. Nobody forced them to say 1.6 was coming to the Hero, or 2.0 for that matter, OR 2.1. They're the ones who made the announcements, and they're the ones who are obligated to stick to their word now.
I for one am ticked off to the point of never supporting them by getting an HTC phone again. It's even more infuriating when you consider that 1) the Legend has most exactly the same hardware WITH 2.1 support, and 2) independent developers have managed to put together reasonably stable 2.1 builds for both the GSM and CDMA Hero, all WITHOUT access to Hero-specific drivers/kernels or what not (I'm not sure exactly what it is modding devs need to perfect their builds, but you get the idea) that HTC have hidden away for God knows what; doesn't seem like its doing them any good, all they do is keep pushing back their release dates.
So HTC can go to hell as far as I'm concerned. I'm not signing the petition because even if they released the update in the next hour, I will not be getting it out of principle (more stubborn-ness though). I'd rather support the hard-working independent devs because at least they give a **** about Android, and not about how much money they'll get.
[/rant]
They are obligated to provide a new firmware because 1.5 is BUGGY!
Nonsense.
I agree that I would love to have the 2.x update yesterday but the current 1.5 is rock solid. It never crashed on me and works like a charm.
The only reason I would like the 2.1 update is because of the improvements on the bluetooth stack and the improved voice functions.
i think they delayed 2.1 release cause they haver moved most of there developers to there new devices and the team working on the hero update is probably very small now, if anyone has noticed how buggy these 2.1 leaks are with battery drainage camera color errors, the slowness, i think its the right move for them to delay the release of the update until these issues are sorted
They are not obliged in any way to provide 2.1 because 1.5 is buggy, they are obliged to make every attempt to fix the bugs within 1.5. (uk sales of good act and eu regulations) And for the other responses saying they have announced it and that makes them obliged? are we in make believe land now?
The update is good will from HTC if anything. I think HTC releasing this when they do is a very different thing compared to other companies like nokia who would rather release 10 other variants of a phone instead of upgrading a s60 3rd edition to a 5th edition...
Considering the Hero I have is on a 24 month contract I dont really think banging on about it like people do is really worth the bother. My point being a petition is pointless.
If they're delaying it, they're delaying it for a good reason.
@anarchyuk: From your second post I got the feeling you are talking about 'obligated' in the legal sense...FYI I was talking about them making good on their word. I do realize that they are not legally obliged to provide the 2.1 or other updates, but like I said, we didn't ask for it first, they said they'd release it and got everyone's hopes up. No fault of the users to complain if HTC cannot deliver.
shahid.malik said:
From your second post I got the feeling you are talking about 'obligated' in the legal sense...FYI I was talking about them making good on their word. I do realize that they are not legally obliged to provide the 2.1 or other updates, but like I said, we didn't ask for it first, they said they'd release it and got everyone's hopes up. No fault of the users to complain if HTC cannot deliver.
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Click to collapse
I agree in the loyalty sense they are obliged to deliver a promise, but that wasn't aimed at your post it was mainly at the "because 1.5 is buggy they have to release 2.1" train of thought.
who knows what the main reasons behind the delay are but I can guarantee it has some link to money!!
Hopefully the development section for the X10 will kick into gear and then it is bye bye to HTC phones for the time being for me!
I'd rather wait an extra month or two and get a stable, finished product than get a hastened, buggy release, another wave of whining about how evil HTC are to release a buggy software. Some people cannot be pleased.
Sent from my Hero using the XDA mobile application powered by Tapatalk
kyods said:
I'd rather wait an extra month or two and get a stable, finished product than get a hastened, buggy release, another wave of whining about how evil HTC are to release a buggy software. Some people cannot be pleased.
Sent from my Hero using the XDA mobile application powered by Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lets be clear here, HTC have released 2.1 with Sense for the Legend, and internally this device is almost identical to the Hero. Therefore, we can be reasonably certain that the reason for the delay is not because it is unfinished or buggy - at least no more so than the version they've shipped on the Legend.
IMHO, it is a marketing decision pure and simple, so that it doesn't affect early sales of the Legend and Desire. They did much the same when they released Sense UI for the Magic some months after the Hero had shipped, despite the fact that the hardware was again very similar.
Regards,
Dave
It's certainly possible, however if the hardware wasn't an issue here, we'd already have plenty of fully-working ROMs ported from the Legend. All the 2.1 ROMs I've tried so far, however, are more or less buggy, which makes me believe the situation is not that simple as it would seem. Still, I'm not a programmer, so it's just a wild guess of mine.
kyods said:
It's certainly possible, however if the hardware wasn't an issue here, we'd already have plenty of fully-working ROMs ported from the Legend. All the 2.1 ROMs I've tried so far, however, are more or less buggy, which makes me believe the situation is not that simple as it would seem. Still, I'm not a programmer, so it's just a wild guess of mine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't say that the hardware wasn't an issue - I said that the Legends hardware is almost identical to the Hero's. If HTC had already released the
kernel source for Legend, I'd wager that porting it to the Hero would be comparatively trivial (especially when compared to manually updating 2.6.27 to 2.6.29!) and we'd have fully working ROMs in well less than 2 months!
That being said, I find the latest Villain ROMs (5.2/5.3) are pretty much feature complete and the only issue I have with them is the less than stellar battery life (which I'm sure is a kernel issue).
Regards,
Dave
foxmeister said:
That being said, I find the latest Villain ROMs (5.2/5.3) are pretty much feature complete and the only issue I have with them is the less than stellar battery life (which I'm sure is a kernel issue).
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Click to collapse
My feelings exactly. That's why I'm not bothered much with HTC's official ROM being delayed.
maybe the battery issue is the reason it hasnt been released
Looking from a business perspective on petitions,all this will do is annoy HTC to the point where they will say "well,**** you all then!we work our asses off to give them a brilliant update and they try to force us into releasing it sooner.They can stay on 1.5 and we will concentrate on the newest models"
Everyone is getting agitated because they stupidly believed rumours,now they have supposedly said June.until I see on Twitter they have released it,I wont believe any new threads on the 2.1 update!
Basically a petition will just piss them off.How much would you like some people telling you to work fastr?
kyods said:
It's certainly possible, however if the hardware wasn't an issue here, we'd already have plenty of fully-working ROMs ported from the Legend. All the 2.1 ROMs I've tried so far, however, are more or less buggy, which makes me believe the situation is not that simple as it would seem. Still, I'm not a programmer, so it's just a wild guess of mine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're under a misapprehension here. Current custom 2.1 roms aren't buggy because the leaked htc code is buggy. They're buggy because the custom 2.1 rom builders don't yet have access to the 2.1 gsm Hero kernel. All they have to go on are the old kernel & kernels for alternative hardware. It is obvious, more than likely, why 2.1 hasn't been released yet.
Threads about this are boring enough at the best of times, but when posters back up false claims with unsound arguments it dilutes what little value the thread might have had remaining.
Threads about this are boring enough at the best of times, but when posters back up false claims with unsound arguments it dilutes what little value the thread might have had remaining.
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Click to collapse
...word!
THAT won't happen. I don't even think HTC will read those petitions, no stakeholder cares about them so it's just wasted time. And thinking that such a petition could cause HTC to react childish as you said is just not realistic. They are in it for the money, and they need happy customers. Thats why we will get 2.1 at some point.
bonesy said:
Looking from a business perspective on petitions,all this will do is annoy HTC to the point where they will say "well,**** you all then!we work our asses off to give them a brilliant update and they try to force us into releasing it sooner.They can stay on 1.5 and we will concentrate on the newest models"
Everyone is getting agitated because they stupidly believed rumours,now they have supposedly said June.until I see on Twitter they have released it,I wont believe any new threads on the 2.1 update!
Basically a petition will just piss them off.How much would you like some people telling you to work fastr?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Related
A lot seems to have been written about the 2.1 Rom "delay". I've posted a version of this elsewhere but think it's worth simplifying here and expanding somewhat because who knows, maybe some who bothers the care at HTC takes a look at this forum? Most of us now are simply waiting it out for HTC to show some respect to existing customers and finally release the 2.1 ROM we know they all have waiting. Maybe when it comes it will be too little, too late.
It's all quite simple:
HTC are deliberately withholding the 2.1 ROM. A LOT of us here and elsewhere KNOW this. Not guessing, not speculating. It's obvious. We KNOW.
It is being withheld not for technical reasons but specifically because of the Legend.
Releasing a 2.1 Rom would NOT hurt Legend sales because those with Heroes are mainly in contracts AND those without would want the newer hardware anyway - doesn't get simpler than that: HTC logic is deeply flawed although superficially understandable. From a company like HTC however, it's a bit silly and the consequences are irritating to say the least.
HTC is suffering from fear based greed as many, many tech electronics companies are (inc Apple) and forget a simple business rule of keeping existing customers happy. This is like a widespread disease amongst the big business community and corporate cultures. Simple, basic business principles like keeping existing customers happy are pushed aside "as if" it wont have any consequences by short sighted, fearful decision makers.
The 1.5 ROM is fine - perfectly acceptable in my opinion.
MOST are aware that HTC doesn't HAVE TO give us a 2.1 ROM - they don't have to give us any updates at all unless there are faults. We get it. We get it. We understand this point.
The 2.1 custom ROMS available here of XDA (and I've tried a LOT of them) are too buggy and too slow for general use. All of them. The recent VillainROM 5.3 for e.g. has a listed issue with voice mail notifications. That's a pretty integral feature! This does not detract the respect and appreciation I think most of us have for the effort put into them.
The 2.1 custom ROM are a great taste of the new functionality and tweaks throughout but are bad in the sense that it's HARD going back to the faster, stable 1.5 ROMs with "less good" features despite the custom 2.1 problems.
Too many are unhappy/feel let down with HTC cynically delaying the 2.1 ROM.
HTC are forgetting that android users and their customers in particular are generally going to be more "techy" and generally going to want the latest version of Android. In other words, they are fools if the think they can deal with their Android handset customers in the same way as their more "consumer" based handset customers. We notice what's out. We notice updates. And boy are we noticing the missing 2.1 update.
I for one despite rationalising and "understanding" HTC's "reasons" for delaying the 2.1 update on the Hero can't shake off the feeling that I'm missing out. There are more important things in life, sure, but I use my phone everyday and paid and continue to pay a lot for it. I feel like they're taking me for a mug. I'll do some research first but it looks like by the time I come to upgrade, i'll drop HTC for this and get a Samsung galaxy S when they're out.
I suppose HTC will have to learn the hard way - mess existing customers about : watch existing customers move to competitors. Business doesn't get simpler than that. HTC won't feel it, even notice it, but the effect is going to be very real and very subtle. If I was a tech company with a new focus of marketing myself directly to my customers, I'd think twice about a short term strategy for gaining adoption and consider such seemingly subtle factors as "will the Hero customers feel pis*ed off if we delay the 2.1 update for months on end?"
Oh, by the way - I'm not "waiting" anymore. Call it a personality deficiency - whatever - but I was checking back here a lot in and around the times the rumours said the official update would be made available. I realise now how much of a waste of time that is. I'm not checking back nearly as often. I recommend others here do the same and "let go" of the whole 2.1 ROM waiting. For your own sake. Oh, and "let go" of HTC while you're at it. Maybe then they'll take notice. Will take a few months the bear fruit - but if all Hero users go to another manufacturer for their Android fix, in about 6 months, maybe at HTC they'll be saying "wow, maybe getting that 2.1 ROM out to Hero users consistently was more important than we thought"? Doubt it, but it's possible.
alsheron said:
HTC are deliberately withholding the 2.1 ROM. A LOT of us here and elsewhere KNOW this. Not guessing, not speculating. It's obvious. We KNOW.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
interesting theory, do you have any prove for that?
Proof
hkr said:
interesting theory, do you have any prove for that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As my "theory" isn't a legal case, I don't need that most dubiously elusive of things called "proof" so commonly demanded in order to dismiss common sense reasoning.
My brain and the common sense it contains leads me to believe what I said. I'm far from the only one. If HTC are not deliberately witholding the 2.1 their reasons elude me as not only is the Legend hugely similar but even development here have been able to put together almost passable ROMs with the leftovers from currently released resources and some leaks. Common sense. It ain't proof, but I, like many others with the Hero only need to feel a certain way before I start to get irritated. No proof required. The restlessness and dissatisfaction with HTC from Hero users specifically is very real and if its percieved to be true then in practical terms, it is.
hkr said:
interesting theory, do you have any prove for that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, for one, they have been promising, announcing and delaying this update ever since, but there were only sparse official (not rumored) justifications for that.
So we have constant delays (without reasons given) but at the same time the new Android 2.1 version released on the Legend, the hardware of which is very similar to the Hero's.
It's not rocket science, really. To be honest the delay to June sounds fishy too. Apparently there will be two updates... a preparatory one and then the one to 2.1 later. Why is that? I mean... we are wiping and replacing the system with a new rom, why would there be a preparation-rom necessary.
So I don't actually believe this rumor (and yes, it's only a rumor... just like all the other details... OTA, non-OTA blabla)... but think about it. Why does HTC already know how exactly they will deploy the update, when they claim to be not done with it?
alsheron said:
As my "theory" isn't a legal case, I don't need that most dubiously elusive of things called "proof" so commonly demanded in order to dismiss common sense reasoning.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So if you "KNOW" that HTC are deliberately delaying the update, why don't you tell us how you know?
The only way you could "KNOW" that would be if you had seen the update, and you aren't claiming that.
So yes you are speculating, as you don't "KNOW", what if they have a show stopping issue with bluetooth? Or something similar that they don't want to release with bugs?
daniel_owen_uk said:
So if you "KNOW" that HTC are deliberately delaying the update, why don't you tell us how you know?
The only way you could "KNOW" that would be if you had seen the update, and you aren't claiming that.
So yes you are speculating, as you don't "KNOW", what if they have a show stopping issue with bluetooth? Or something similar that they don't want to release with bugs?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am speculating. Just like I speculate that I'm breathing in oxygen right now. You could be absolutely right. If you are, then the least they could/would do is let the many people who e-mailed them asking for dates:
"we're experiencing technical difficulties with the update and we expect to have resolved by [insert overestimated date of expected release here] We thank you for your patience"
- or something like that? That wouldn't be too much to ask, would it? They haven't done this. Most reports of dates have turned out to be false or "missed" or simply rumour. I'm not the only one who thinks there is a significant and dramatic delay with the Hero 2.1 update compared to other devices. It's been noticed, and it's causing a lot of resentment - right or wrong.
The least of the mistakes they could be making is simply not communicating to their own customers when the 2.1 update will be ready - and again, right or wrong, Hero users seem to care, in general, quite a lot. Maybe they don't know if it's a technical issue. But would anyone really believe that it could take another 12 months from now? 6 months? 3 months? My point is that if they wanted to they could give us a rough estimate. In fact, they've said little or nothing.
alsheron said:
As my "theory" isn't a legal case, I don't need that most dubiously elusive of things called "proof" so commonly demanded in order to dismiss common sense reasoning.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My common sense and experience with HTC tells me, it's not finished yet, otherwise it would have been leaked ...
alsheron said:
We KNOW
Click to expand...
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By the way, how many are YOU ???
hkr said:
By the way, how many are YOU ???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We are many! ;-)
I have this minor annoyance that keeps coming up in these update threads, the statement that the 1.5 stock ROM is bug free. People who keep saying that must not use bluetooth stereo. Music slow down and pitch issues, stuttering when starting a song etc. I'd be happy with a 1.5 fix just for those issues.
What HTC is really missing in this 2.1 affair is that the Hero was the first impressing Android device on the market. Tatoo and Magic were not good enough for a "geek" or "tech-victim" to make the big step and jump from an iPhone or whatever was their old smartphone.
Let's consider the two main type of "nerds" who bought an Hero:
- the most nerdy guys, who spent 500€ on an Hero anything less than a year ago, will jump to Desire anyway, because they always want the last piece of hardware, regardless how small the improvement in terms of performance will be.
- the less nerdy guys, or those who can't afford a 500€ shot every 8-12 months, will stick to their 1.5 Hero anyway, both because they don't have the money for a new phone, or because they are on contract, or whatever reason can keep away a real nerd from upgrading whatever piece of hardware
So there is no way HTC is selling more Legend/Desire/N1 by keeping the upgrade for them. Maybe 1% of Hero customers will switch to something better just because of this 1-2-3 months delay. Those who can, would have did it anyway. Those who can't, won't do it anyway. 2.1 on Hero will have a user experience definitely worst than Desire and slightly worst than Legend, so maybe releasing 2.1 on Hero 1 month ago would have teased the "real nerds" to buy a new terminal just to enjoy better all those functionalities that on a Hero would be a little smuggy.
Sorry for the bad english
alsheron said:
HTC are forgetting that android users and their customers in particular are generally going to be more "techy" and generally going to want the latest version of Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry - but this just isn't true.
The vast majority of people who have the Hero have no desire to root, flash, or do anything beyond what they can already do with their 1.5 handsets.
People like us, who frequent boards like XDA, are very much the exception rather than the rule, and HTC do not care about us - if they did, they wouldn't go to the lengths that they do to lock down their phones!
Regards,
Dave
foxmeister said:
Sorry - but this just isn't true.
The vast majority of people who have the Hero have no desire to root, flash, or do anything beyond what they can already do with their 1.5 handsets.
People like us, who frequent boards like XDA, are very much the exception rather than the rule, and HTC do not care about us - if they did, they wouldn't go to the lengths that they do to lock down their phones!
Regards,
Dave
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats an interesting point - and probably (painfully!) true - but it doesn't "feel" true when you are one of us here - a "techy" and are waiting for the latest and greatest.
Might be the bearer of unhappy news here, but Sprint sent a couple of tweets out today concerning the update.
http://twitter.com/sprint/status/13553847246
"Android users:Sprint continues to work closely w Samsung/HTC on 2.1, on track to be avail Q2. Sprint had hoped to have this resolved by now."
http://twitter.com/sprint/status/13553862034
"Many thanks to our customers for your continued patience as we work to bring you a positive experience with the 2.1 upgrade."
I guess the fevor pitch got too high and they felt a need to defuse it. Was that a hint of frustration on Sprint's part there as well? ("...had hoped to have this resolved by now.")
Anyway, back to being satisfied with our ROMs for me. Sorry everyone.
least it's still a bit of hope for us not running 2.1 yet. It's a small step in the right direction. Sprint is finally communicating at least something.
How does this pertain to us ? I mean I am not currently waiting on a possible update for my Sprint Samsung Hero.
smstutler said:
How does this pertain to us ? I mean I am not currently waiting on a possible update for my Sprint Samsung Hero.
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Click to collapse
It was to all Sprint Android Users. Samsung owners and HTC owners. Apparently they are having as many issues with Samsung as they are HTC. I wonder if there is an commonality between the issues they are having.
Kcarpenter said:
It was to all Sprint Android Users. Samsung owners and HTC owners. Apparently they are having as many issues with Samsung as they are HTC. I wonder if there is an commonality between the issues they are having.
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Of course there is a commonality, one thing both phones have in common is Sprint.
Thank goodness we already have a 100% fucntional 2.1 ROM. HTC just needs to release the kernel source!
TheBiles said:
Thank goodness we already have a 100% fucntional 2.1 ROM. HTC just needs to release the kernel source!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That pretty much said it perfectly ...
smstutler said:
How does this pertain to us ? I mean I am not currently waiting on a possible update for my Sprint Samsung Hero.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you take a closer look at the first tweet, it says "Sprint continues to work closely w Samsung/HTC...", so they are speaking to both parties.
lorsoblu said:
If you take a closer look at the first tweet, it says "Sprint continues to work closely w Samsung/HTC...", so they are speaking to both parties.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are correct. I missed that part. But to be blunt if you looked at forums, you would also see that this has been posted quite a few times already. Both screwed up I guess.
smstutler said:
Of course there is a commonality, one thing both phones have in common is Sprint.
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Couldn't agree more.
Things like this really make me wonder why people are so into the Evo. This is like Deja Vu. The hero came out with old software that had been running on the g1 for a year. Then we sit and wait for 7 months for an update that will most likely be old by the time we get it. They are working on 2.2 and that is coming soon. Now people are going to jump on the same bandwagon for the evo which is the exact situation with the hero. They release the phone in june with software that is going to be considered old a few months later. Everyone that gets the evo will then complain that they are not on 2.2 and how sprint and htc dropped the ball again.
Me personally, I don't think I will get the evo just because of this fiasco. I have been using 2.1 for a while and it's great but is it worth all this headache.....NO. If android doesn't fix this fragmentation they will lose lots of customers. This will really be felt when the new iphone comes out. It's easy for them to play back and forth now but when the biggest competitor comes out, these problems will not be overlooked by most consumers.
I personally think that this update is being held back till the evo comes out so they can sway consumers to that product. Business isn't always about pleasing the consumer. Sprint has got your money and htc has got your money. They want you to buy a new phone and that's that. I wouldn't be suprised if the update drops the same exact week as the evo. They will say sorry for the delay and not meeting the Q2 but it's coming out soon. Nothing is etched in stone and we are just hanging on every word hoping something new will be released.
We have been dealing with broken youtube player and nothing has been done or mentioned to fix it. Do you really want to take the risk in doing this again. Everything is going to be put aside till the evo drops. That is the phone that is supposedly going to save sprint it's decline in customers. The eris is going to be discontinued by verizon this month. This should show everyone that htc is not interested in these products anymore. If they were we would have gotten 1.6 when it became available. The hero was made to open the eyes of cdma customers to android. It did just that and now it's time to get you to upgrade so they can continue to make money. Why does sprint care if you get 2.1. There not going to make any money in dropping the update, so why rush.
my point exactly
I am really curious to know what problems with 2.1 are causing the delay?? After all we have a decent working version now. If there really is some big issue wouldn't we have found it by now?
I don't think its "Android," its Sprint w/ HTC and Samsung implementing 2.1 to their devices. But that's just me.
smstutler said:
Of course there is a commonality, one thing both phones have in common is Sprint.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
SMH........
My guess is that the problem lies with one of the POS sprint applications that are stripped out of almost all the custom ROMs since the problem is effecting both the Samsung and HTC updates. They have never worked right and in an application rich environment like Android, I don't think they are necessary. Nav was nice for 1.5, but no longer necessary. NFL is a decent application, but poorly implemented. You can't even let the screen turn off while streaming audio. Sprint TV is a cool idea, but again poorly implemented. It would always start up in the background for no reason. Many people have said it in defense of Sprint, sprint is not a software company... I know they outsource these applications, but it is to a company that has no apparent android experience.
Jjday7 said:
Things like this really make me wonder why people are so into the Evo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The draw is that the Evo has sweet hardware, that and we Hero users have had a fully functional 2.1 for quite some time due to devs. What is the problem? Is there some other Android handset which shipped with 1.5 Android that has had break neck updates?
Does it really matter? If someone is THAT hard up for the updated OS, they can get it without waiting for the official release. And if they're not that impatient, they're probably ok on what they're using.
The people that really want to upgrade their phone can and will do it. I see no reason to freak out about if/when Sprint will release their version of the upgrade.
And for what it's worth, Sprint has ALWAYS been behind in releasing OS updates. They were like that with WinMO as well. Hence one of the reasons people started hacking and developing ROMs to begin with.
danknee said:
The draw is that the Evo has sweet hardware, that and we Hero users have had a fully functional 2.1 for quite some time due to devs. What is the problem? Is there some other Android handset which shipped with 1.5 Android that has had break neck updates?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Isn't Sprint still on track to have the only phones in the US upgraded to 2.1? I mean they are at least going to be the first ones to do it. Not that there aren't companies with a 2.1 phone.
And about fragmentation...it affects EVERY software company, unless the supply exact hardware. FroYo will likely take care of most of it - they approached it with a very modular design. And Rumor has it Gingerbread+ will have more specific hardware requirements, thought still less restrictive than Iphone and WinMo.
We are in an interesting time in the Mobile World. A lot of innovation is happening VERY quickly. It's simply Moore's Law. The next generation of hardware coming down the pipe is just TOO different than what we are running now.
smstutler said:
You are correct. I missed that part. But to be blunt if you looked at forums, you would also see that this has been posted quite a few times already. Both screwed up I guess.
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Click to collapse
When I posted this I looked through the first two pages to check if the info was already up, and to the best of my knowledge it wasn't. (After I posted I saw that the SprintGuy thread had just got updated with it as well, but it was practically at the same time)
Doesn't matter though, we will probably still have someone post this tomorrow morning.
Hello everyone,
This is my first posting on XDA developers thought i've been following the community for quite some time as its helped me with a lot of my other phones in the past.
Eclair is probably going to be the last major release for the Experia 10 family. Froyo was originally being considered to be released in August but unfortunately change of management that occurred several times last year and this year kept changing, ending and starting new project all over the place at SE.
Eclair has been ready for some time to be released and the past few months has been a constant battle to get people to agree to release Froyo instead of Eclair.
Long story short, Froyo is a no go and Eclair is what is being released. It is currently being pushed out to the various operators for branding.
Furthermore, future Android releases will be customized for future phones and not the X10i, X10 mini/pro
these days it is so easy to say something with out proof!!
If you believe it or not that is your own choice. I'm not making claims that SE will release anything any time soon. Rather im saying that they wont!
Which is the major difference here. The fact that I posted on here today is because I got fed up of everything that is going on in the office.
Its not that 2.2 cant be released its that they just simply wont release it.
do you work at se?
yeah like you say. it's your first post. and you speak like a se spokesperson or something lol
unless you are an insider, i don't know how you'd be able to say what you said with 100% certainty.
but we are not waiting for SE to release an update!!
we are waiting for our dev!!
yes... and yes...
Bull**** in my ass. SE will relese 2.2 in end of Q4 2010 or Q1 2011. Got it from SE in Sweden.
Sent from my X10i
HAHA...great, now we have 2 unsubstantiated claims about Froyo.
Skepticism aside, the argument as presented here makes sense. Hopefully it's a mistake or troll but anyone who's seen corporate politics up close will be all too familiar with events like these.
So if true: Thanks for the information. If it's not: Eff off you trolling low-life.
If things turn out this way it's an even bigger reason to crack the bootloader or for SE to release a warranty-voiding unlocked loader.
Well,
Seeing as I work at SE on the SE DEV team in Sweden I would like to think that the information I have is fresh off the press so to say.
The information you have with regards to 2.2 being released in Q4 maybe Q1 was the original plan yes.
But you enjoy that update when it comes out FreeKill.
Thanks ddewbofh,
I didn't expect people to be so offensive in their response when information is being given and not about an amazing even rather about an upsetting set of news.
I have more confidence in Cyanogenmod will be available to x10i rather than an official Froyo release.
In principle, you should be able to flash Froyo that is provided by google directly. There are 2 major things stopping you from doing that.
1. The phones that the public has are flagged as "Red" for retail phones and the dev phones are flagged as brown... please don't ask why those colors.
This means that even if I were to get a phone from one of the stores take it back into the office and try to flash it with our own tools then it wont work.
2. The modem software that is provided by the general release from Google does not work on the x10i phones.
However, once the bootloader is cracked you can always grab the modem package from a dump and included to the general release.
so, do you have a access to engineering bootloader?
Well, needless to say if you were to leak a copy of your tools we could get it working given a little time
Just out of interest you say "flagged" is that a software or hardware flag?
So since its already ready so to speak...
Im sure a copy leaked underground wont hurt anyone ...
edit:
I know about the colours... dont you have a tool to change the certificates from retail to dev?
Also there must be a modem tool out there that you know of that could possible work...
Well, it's going to be SE's choice.
If their corporate bull**** is going to screw their customers, they will move on. Hell, I know at least 5 persons who sold their X10 for a shiny new SGS, even when the X10's hardware is far superior than the SGS (Not talking about actual performance, but overall hardware obviously)
It would be a pitty, really. For the people like me who live in a country where your only option is to use an unlocked phone, because our carriers do not have a different kind of option, the X10 is the best Android handset in the market for the right price.
Sure, the SGS has better hardware performance, but it also cost almost twice as much as the X10 around here... and the other HTC stuff can't compete with the X10 as a whole package (Camera, picture quality, LCD, media player, sound quality)
I don't know why is so hard for SE to excel. To let their customers, and the other manufacturers know that the brand is best of the best. That they are going to give their product the best it can handle, until it can't handle it anymore (Like Gingerbread, for example) like HTC does. Shame that I don't like HTC handsets, the build quality is crap, the camera and sound quality are even worse... they only work as a cell phone, not as a whole multimedia package, like the X10.
If this is real, then the X10 will be my last SE phone. I stopped using them after ALL their phones became crap after the glorious w810i. This is my first SE phone in 4 years after having SE phones only, and would be my last if they let me down again.
I agree. You're potentially lost you're job anyway.
You might aswell hand over the goods. You, as a dev, woulda understand that Android is meant to be open source; Therefor you should have no quams in providing a more positive outlook on a product you have worked hard on.
Or just throw it all into that other ugly phone. Just sayin'
Sent from my X10i using Tapatalk
EDIT: Just out of curiosity, you say you have been watching this forum did a while. What was the general consensus when you informed your team the X10 was rooted? I'm merely curious as to your stand point on locking the phone down so much.
SELeak, if this information is true and our only hope for Froyo/Gingerbread is through cracking the bootloader, how about some more "insider information" on how we could get this done? If you really wanna help the community, help us get through Sony's "let's protect everything because we're paranoid" bootloader.
first of, big thanks to SELeak for sharing his info
i think if you were to share more in-depth info about the bootloader etc, you should contact the team that made the root for x10 possible, if you are willing, contact me on PM, i will give you the info how to get in direct contact with somebody from the team, if they have't contacted you already
best regards
Your title might also be taken as misleading, as Froyo is not a "major release" per say. Version 2.1 to 2.2 is a minor release in my book.
SELeak said:
Hello everyone,
This is my first posting on XDA developers thought i've been following the community for quite some time as its helped me with a lot of my other phones in the past.
Eclair is probably going to be the last major release for the Experia 10 family. Froyo was originally being considered to be released in August but unfortunately change of management that occurred several times last year and this year kept changing, ending and starting new project all over the place at SE.
Eclair has been ready for some time to be released and the past few months has been a constant battle to get people to agree to release Froyo instead of Eclair.
Long story short, Froyo is a no go and Eclair is what is being released. It is currently being pushed out to the various operators for branding.
Furthermore, future Android releases will be customized for future phones and not the X10i, X10 mini/pro
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
karendar said:
SELeak, if this information is true and our only hope for Froyo/Gingerbread is through cracking the bootloader, how about some more "insider information" on how we could get this done? If you really wanna help the community, help us get through Sony's "let's protect everything because we're paranoid" bootloader.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+10
SELeak, if you do in fact work for SE development, the community here would very much appreciate any assistance you could give in helping to crack the bootloader.
However, as it stands this thread really doesn't belong in the Android Development forum, as it isn't directly contributing to Android development on the X10.
Since a new thread seams to pop up every day asking for ETA's I suppose we can have a thread specifically discussing what we ACTUALLY know. Here is what "I" know at the moment.
GPS Fix
Currently there is a leaked firmware (see development forum) that looks like it improves the GPS functionality nicely. This has a build date of Sept 7th so it is fairly new. Due to certain issues, this appears to be a beta still. However, it does have the TMO apps on it so it is further along than a pre-carrier build. Given a beta cycle of a couple of weeks, if this goes out as an OTA, it would look to be at the end of the month at best.
It has been reported in another thread that TMO will start rolling out a GPS/Lag fix on Sept 20th. This is most likely based on, or is, the leaked ROM that you can find in the dev section. So far, reports on the GPS fix are "mostly" positive.
Froyo (Android 2.2.)
There have been no leaked ROMs for the Vibrant yet although there is for international versions. Samsung_mobile on twitter said Froyo at the end of September. Given the information in the previous section, it seems an interim build may be coming to TMO first, before a Froyo is pushed out. This one though is a complete unknown besides from that twitter post.
It is currently expected that Samsung will release a Froyo build TO CARRIERS on Sept 23rd. We are not likely to see a Froyo update for at least 45 days after that if not longer depending on how long it takes TMO to "wiz it up"
GPS is working very nicely for me on that new rom with no issues.
I was locking onto 6 birds yesterday. All stock. WHATUP NOW
Still take some froyo though haaa
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
While I appreciate that the leaked ROM may be working for you, a lot of people dont want to mess with ROMs and are more interested in an official update. Although you can install that ROM today, we have no actual date of an official release.
KerryG said:
While I appreciate that the leaked ROM may be working for you, a lot of people dont want to mess with ROMs and are more interested in an official update. Although you can install that ROM today, we have no actual date of an official release.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, if we are lucky, we may get it by the time Google releases Android 3.0 in October....
I am sooo disappointed that every Android manufacturer locks down their product so tight, that without their cooperation, the phones are simply not upgradable to the new OS versions. In a way it's worse than dealing with the iPhone
Wake up dude. It has nothing to do with that and EVERYTHING to do with testing and finishing drivers, UI, etc. People complain about a buggy release then demand updates right away. Its not going to happen.
couped said:
Wake up dude. It has nothing to do with that and EVERYTHING to do with testing and finishing drivers, UI, etc. People complain about a buggy release then demand updates right away. Its not going to happen.
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Click to collapse
Nope.
Samsung can test the OS in advance, so they can get their drivers ready for launch. Both HTC and Moto did it, and Moto is hardly the most responsive company out there.
And the UI, it's crap, IMO. But if Samsung thinks TouchWiz is so great and important, then spin it off and make it available in Market, when ready.
There is really no good excuse for the delay. Samsung is just not dedicating the resources they need to.
MacGuy2006 said:
Nope.
Samsung can test the OS in advance, so they can get their drivers ready for launch. Both HTC and Moto did it, and Moto is hardly the most responsive company out there.
And the UI, it's crap, IMO. But if Samsung thinks TouchWiz is so great and important, then spin it off and make it available in Market, when ready.
There is really no good excuse for the delay. Samsung is just not dedicating the resources they need to.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
are you serious?
I think you need a new hobby...
There is really no good excuse for the delay.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Obviously someone that hasn't been in the software development field.
Amen.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
In T-mobile/Samsung's defense...
When the first update for the G1 came out, it released in the UK before it hit the U.S.
Turns out that there was some kind of security bug in it, and they actually had to stop offering the update.
The testing aspect is why these updates take so long. It takes longer to test (and fix minor issues) than to correct the main problem.
What it boils down to is that no one really knows these devices in and out. You have cameras from one company, radios from another company, GPS chipsets from a third company, processors from a 4th, etc... and on top of it all your OS is written by a company that is very new to the electronics business.
The problem is the pace of technology.... sure you could pay 2 or 3 geniuses $100,000 a year for 2 years to learn every idiosyncrasy of ONE of your devices... but does that make sense when you have 2 or 3 new models going to market in 6 months?
Apple is probably the best suited company to have a team of experts who know their ONE device in and out... and even they screw it up (proximity sensor, antenna debacle).
KerryG said:
Obviously someone that hasn't been in the software development field.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, part of what I do is pay people to do software development.
Again, if this was a priority for Samsung, we would have 2.2 now. They have control over more hardware in the Galaxy than most other phone manufacturers.
Maybe old news by now, but Androidspin is reporting Froyo for the international version with a Sept 23 release date.
noob user, can't post links. visit android spin for the story.
MacGuy2006 said:
Actually, part of what I do is pay people to do software development.
Again, if this was a priority for Samsung, we would have 2.2 now. They have control over more hardware in the Galaxy than most other phone manufacturers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ill agree with this, if Samsungs priority was 2.2 it would have been done by now, easily. I mean 2.2 has been out since may. Its 4 months later, they could roll it out now if it had been properly and timely worked on.
It's not like all Samsung makes are phones.
....
I'm still waiting for the HTC TV, HTC Washer and Dryer, maybe a Nokia Refrigerator....
When the other Companies start making all of this stuff, then u can compare
MacGuy2006 said:
Actually, part of what I do is pay people to do software development.
Again, if this was a priority for Samsung, we would have 2.2 now. They have control over more hardware in the Galaxy than most other phone manufacturers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So... your the accountant? Or someone who contracts with vendors to do development for the company you work for? Supply the funding?
Sorry, not a ringing endorsement for understanding the development cycle without more details.
I'm guessing you meant to say, "if this was a TOP priority for Samsung, we would have 2.2 for now".
I'm guessing it's not, for a variety of business reasons. I'm sure it is in the mix with a lot of other efforts.
mjpacheco said:
So... your the accountant? Or someone who contracts with vendors to do development for the company you work for? Supply the funding?
Sorry, not a ringing endorsement for understanding the development cycle without more details.
I'm guessing you meant to say, "if this was a TOP priority for Samsung, we would have 2.2 for now".
I'm guessing it's not, for a variety of business reasons. I'm sure it is in the mix with a lot of other efforts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I do a bit of most of the above.
So, you are a fanboy?
If HTC and Moto could do it, so could have Samsung. Especially since the Galaxy S is supposed to be their weapon with which to take over the smart phone market.... And since they have more control over key components than their rivals.
Anyway, what's your point? That writing drivers is so tough it takes years?
Or that we should not expect much from Samsung products, because they are a diversified company and can't focus on any particular product?
MacGuy2006 said:
Actually, part of what I do is pay people to do software development.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I pay 400 people to do software development, and I agree with the other guy.
MacGuy2006 said:
No, I run a company.
So, you are a fanboy?
If HTC and Moto could do it, so could have Samsung. Especially since the Galaxy S is supposed to be their weapon with which to take over the smart phone market.... And since they have more control over key components than their rivals.
Anyway, what's your point? That writing drivers takes years?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ha, no. I'm OS and hardware agnostic across all platforms.
My point is realistic expectations. If the GPS update was top priority for Samsung and/or easy to fix (it very well may not have been), it would be done.
As the owner of a company, you know more than anybody the tradeoff's that need to be made when making business decisions. It easy to complain when you are individually impacted about the priority of some specific piece of work, but for Samsung you know they made concious decisions about release scheduling.
Given recent news, it looks like the GPS/hardware fix is being release seperately from 2.2. I'm a little dissapointed in this, it's seems likely that means we will not get the 2.2 fix before the end of September. Ideally they would be rolled together if 2.2 was close... unless the fix just took so long the release timeframes have been squeezed together. And all assuming the GPS fix is merged with 2.2.
Anyway, I'm rambling, no way to know unless we sit in on Samsung development meetings and what challenges they have had with the 2.2 release.
My 'guess' is Samsung had marketing dates to meet with the original OS and released the product before everything was baked in. There are lots of oddities and bugs in the phone I have not seen in other platforms (like HTC), and these are hopefully fixed and may explain the extra time.
I agree with you re: the UI. For those that care, and it likely the more technically savy are the ones that care, it's easy to change... one of the compelling things about any android device.
The Tab is nearly ready to launch. I'm sure it has been tested with 2.2 for a number of weeks, if not months. The have the drivers ready. They are likely devoting tine and energy to hardware releases at this time. It would be nice if they would release vanilla android then the other stuff in the market. They already do that for the samsung home and car apps.
It is really frustrating that these companies cripple good devices with bloatware and make you root to uninstall it. Gingerbread will be nice because all of these extras will be apps. Which is how it should have been from day one.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Today i went to a android meet up in Utrecht Holland... There were a few employees from samsung Holland and they said to me that Froyo is going to be released late october early November here in holland. Because they want to do it right at once. .. And he also told me that the GPS will be updated separately. They got a whole team working on the GPS. So this not so nice to hear. But i look it on the bright side. . They are working on it really hard. They also said to me that they do care about the costumers. And they had also 5 galaxy tabs and i can tell you They rock! Quote of the evening : Samsung employee to mee with my Galaxy S in his hand :How the hell can you have a newer firmware then me. .. He got JPH...
Sent from my Spaceship!!!
just as i though, like on the joke poll "when will froyo be released"
i guessed on November/December
you'll see it's going to be a merry Xmas from samsung when they release Froyo on the 25 Dec
Let them take their sweet time, as long as they get it right
So now we are talking about oct/nov.. This is becoming the epix wait.
Well I'm like dying to have it but I'm one for quality then quickness. So if that's true I'm all for the wait.
Sent from SAMSUNG-I897 using XDA APP
AreikUSA said:
Well I'm like dying to have it but I'm one for quality then quickness. So if that's true I'm all for the wait.
Sent from SAMSUNG-I897 using XDA APP
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 here, I'd rather wait a couple of months for something that won't be unusable that get something now that we'll be constantly complaining over to get patches etc.
I just wish Samsung would be more open with us about these things rather than letting us down. I would respect them more if they'd just tell us straight rather than giving false/un-meetable deadlines.
The lesson learned here for me is that I won't buy a Samsung phone again. The HTC Desire got its update to Froyo a lot earlier. I mean by the time they release Froyo for the Galaxy Google probably has release Gingerbread. Guess we have to wait till June '11 or maybe forever for that...
I got myself blinded by the great hardware specs. But with any hardware it is useless without the proper software to it. I dont think I expect to much from a device I paid 450 EUR for...
When was Desire launched and when was Galaxy S?
Also, have you read about the delays of eclair for htc hero?
Anyway, my last htc phone was and will be htc hero (beside poor costumer support they have inferior hardware in comparison to motorola, samsung, etc)*.
Don't start me on Motorola Europe. Just look at their Facebook page. Be warned though it is almost entirely Adult rated and definitely not for those of a delicate nature.
slu125 said:
The lesson learned here for me is that I won't buy a Samsung phone again. The HTC Desire got its update to Froyo a lot earlier. I mean by the time they release Froyo for the Galaxy Google probably has release Gingerbread. Guess we have to wait till June '11 or maybe forever for that...
I got myself blinded by the great hardware specs. But with any hardware it is useless without the proper software to it. I dont think I expect to much from a device I paid 450 EUR for...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand what you are going through, But you must rememeber that the HTC Desire is a clone of the Google Nexus One, THE DEVELOPEMENT PHONE. so OF CAUSE the htc Desire gets the goodies first. Myself I'm pissed off that Froyo disn't have a optimized JIT for Hummingbird cpu! grrrrr.. Frankly I don't care if Froyo comes out anymore as I just wanted the JIT optimized like the Snapdragon cpu's . Also I'm hell thankful for not buying a X10, They still havn't even updated to 2.1 YET! so when (if) we SGS people are playing with Froyo (be it broken) they will finally get 2.1! heheh
ickyboo said:
I understand what you are going through, But you must rememeber that the HTC Desire is a clone of the Google Nexus One, THE DEVELOPEMENT PHONE. so OF CAUSE the htc Desire gets the goodies first. Myself I'm pissed off that Froyo disn't have a optimized JIT for Hummingbird cpu! grrrrr.. Frankly I don't care if Froyo comes out anymore as I just wanted the JIT optimized like the Snapdragon cpu's . Also I'm hell thankful for not buying a X10, They still havn't even updated to 2.1 YET! so when (if) we SGS people are playing with Froyo (be it broken) they will finally get 2.1! heheh
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The thing that will really piss people off will be the upcoming galaxy tab that will be shipping with froyo for nov 1. That will make it painfully obvious on where Samsung is directing their dev team
They've worked too long on Froyo. Lets see what kind of garbage they will manage to churn out again. This is consequence of have poor staff engineers and interns as main coders and testers. In reality, the SW team is 2-3 "engineers" and a QA team of just one.
Having come from 1.6 on the Sony Ericsson Xperia X10, who have delayed the 2.1 release yet further to the Galaxy S (JM1) I have no problem waiting for the official release of 2.2.
I'm just happy to have a phone that actually works, unlike many people I have read on this and other forums having issues with the GPS I don't seem to be suffering the levels of inaccuracy that other do. But then again I don't really use the GPS so not even that big an issue for me.
And at least Samsung are getting it together in terms of the 2.2 update, Sony Ericsson looks like delaying the base 2.1 until around December.
I'm in the get it right, rather than get it quick, camp.
2.2 on the desire offers a plethora of nice improvements (I have the official upgrade on my own desire), but it's not faultless. Samsung have a range of issues to deal with and it's not unreasonable to assume that they might need more time to bring the galaxy s up to speed compared with the desire, which was by common consent functioning better under 2.1.
I think one has to be aware that ones personal concerns with the device are not necessarily majority concerns. Comparing my desire with the sgs, I still reach for my sgs for some tasks (internet, streamed media) in preference to the desire. The screen quality makes a massive difference and the speed and graphics acceleration makes the sgs feel more responsive. The desire feels like a workhorse, the sgs feels like fun.
Addressing the issues properly is much more important than rushing out a new set of bugs, in my view. In the meantime I find stock t-mobile fine, and better than most of my experiences with HTC windows mobile handsets out of the box.
If you really want 2.2 now you, can get it. Personally I find it reassuring that a professional team is out there trying to get it stable and optimised for the device.
Good info, thanks.
I'm all for quality too. I haven't touched my stock 2.1 yet. No lag fix, no rooting or anything, and I'm quite happy with it.
Don't get me wrong, I'd like the features of 2.2 as well, especially voice activated, handsfree dialing via bluetooth, but I'm not willing to take the risk of bricking my phone because leaked roms, or lag fixes may cause damage.
Some of you are willing to take that risk, more power to you, that's what development is all about. I'm just not willing to do that as yet. If Samsung stated they won't be providing an update, then fine. But they are, and I'm willing to wait.
Sent from my GT-I9000M using XDA App
trentend said:
Personally I find it reassuring that a professional team is out there trying to get it stable and optimised for the device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right....
asicman said:
They've worked too long on Froyo. Lets see what kind of garbage they will manage to churn out again. This is consequence of have poor staff engineers and interns as main coders and testers. In reality, the SW team is 2-3 "engineers" and a QA team of just one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How do YOU know that? Or do you just like trolling?
In reality, it might be that device development is a lot more difficult than people think. OSX Server 10.5 is an example of a product which took MUCH longer than 4 months to be useful, and we all know that Apple aren't a team of 2-3 engineers. How much Froyo development experience do you have to be able to say whats acceptable?
andrewluecke said:
How do YOU know that?
Or do you just like trolling?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Look at the end result. Look the SGS that most people have in their hands...
Umm, thats a silly assumption.
The difference is that whilst every unhappy user seems to be jumping thread to thread making noise, those of us who are happy aren't creating threads everywhere praising Samsung. The discussions are unbalanced here. At one point of time, someone DID create a thread which was for people who liked the device, and it REALLY filled up.
So really, you don't have ANY development experience do you? It's more likely Samsung simply launched the product a bit prematurely in order to capture the market (and it worked), and now they are fixing the bugs. They have already fixed a lot..
You must also remember, we don't have access to the latest Samsung Builds.