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i was really looking forward on getting myself a droid/milestone X/2 when it's available in europe. but i just read that the droidX (and maybe all upcoming motorola devices according to http://community.developer.motorola...OMs-and-Motorola-s-Android-Handsets/ba-p/4224) will have a completely locked bootloader as the original milestone had. it's as of today not possible to flash a custom rom on a >7 month old milestone, how weak is that?!
although i like the hardware of the moto-devices and really wanted one, this is definitly a no-go for me and defeats the purpose of android as a open(source)/linux os! i'm done with motorola, just ordered a galaxy s which is completely open!
i don't believe that motorola cares if 10.000 geeky people won't buy theire device because it's locked but it would nevertheless be good to show them that we care!
i'm curious what others think about that!
I think it's horse**** that they are locking it
I mean what's it to them if we can flash our phones??
Maybe they don't want their rom software to be leaked out? besides that I see no other reason for this
sp1kez said:
I think it's horse**** that they are locking it
I mean what's it to them if we can flash our phones??
Maybe they don't want their rom software to be leaked out? besides that I see no other reason for this
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that's my point. if i buy a piece of hardware, i should own it completely and do with it what i want! also one would think that motorola would (or at least could) appreciate a bunch of developers modding and patching their devices to make them more appealing to the community. i just installed cm6 (froyo) on my htc magic. it works better than ever, how cool is that! would not be possible with a locked bootloader...
example milestone: although no custom rom's can be booted (the bootloader boots only moto-signed kernels) the device can be rooted and so it should be no problem to get a rom-dump. so that can't be the reason...
I was ready to pull the trigger on the Droid X until I heard this. I hate it. You are right, we buy the phone we should own the phone. I still might buy this phone, a vote of confidence to the devs.
I want the large screen. There's nothing out there with as large a screen. The evo, but I've already been burned by that. Maybe if they swap the screen for a better one.
I'm just as angry at Motorola, but I'm still going to purchase a Droid X. It has everything I'm looking for in a phone hardware-wise, and I can't wait any longer to dump the dumbphone I've been using for years. I'm a huge fan of tweaking every piece of technology I have (e.g. hackintosh netbook just for kicks), but I'm going to stick it out with a one-year contract on the Droid X until a better phone comes along.
I've taken a look at the Galaxy S/Fascinate, but it looks far too much like an iPhone to appeal to me, rootable as it may be. Samsung's post-release support is also less than stellar. As closed as Motorola may be by using this bootloader, they are still providing 2.2 to the original Droid this summer, which is more than can be said of a /lot/ of manufacturers.
Yea I had it preordered and everything til I figured out they locked it down, guess they are okay with losing sales by turning unto an apple type company stupid
Sent from my Incredible using XDA App
Mikerrrrrrrr said:
...
I've taken a look at the Galaxy S/Fascinate, but it looks far too much like an iPhone to appeal to me, rootable as it may be. Samsung's post-release support is also less than stellar. As closed as Motorola may be by using this bootloader, they are still providing 2.2 to the original Droid this summer, which is more than can be said of a /lot/ of manufacturers.
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i agree. i don't like the iphony-look of the galaxy-s either and i feel like the droid X casing is much more stable. also the omap seemed more appealing to me than samsungs hummingbird. and so on ...
while i think it's a good thing that motorola supports their older devices with updates (at least they do with the droid) my point is/was that a open device enables the community to push the software further ahead. for instance: atm. i still have a htc magic. i just installed cm6 running froyo about a week ago. my device is running better and faster than ever. this would not be possible with a locked bootloader. i would be at the mercy of htc to supply me with an update "sometime in the future", quite frustrating ...
i just don't understand their reasons for this! if it's all just about warranty they could implement a "root and unlock" feature in the settings which would void your warranty e.g. by sending a request to a moto-server or something similar.
maybe it has something to do with drm-stuff as i also wondered that one can only use the (awesome) hdmi-out for self-made media ... kills >50% of the potential of the hdmi-out in my opinion.
jodue said:
i agree. i don't like the iphony-look of the galaxy-s either and i feel like the droid X casing is much more stable. also the omap seemed more appealing to me than samsungs hummingbird. and so on ...
while i think it's a good thing that motorola supports their older devices with updates (at least they do with the droid) my point is/was that a open device enables the community to push the software further ahead. for instance: atm. i still have a htc magic. i just installed cm6 running froyo about a week ago. my device is running better and faster than ever. this would not be possible with a locked bootloader. i would be at the mercy of htc to supply me with an update "sometime in the future", quite frustrating ...
i just don't understand their reasons for this! if it's all just about warranty they could implement a "root and unlock" feature in the settings which would void your warranty ...
maybe it has something to do with drm-stuff as i also wondered that one can only use the (awesome) hdmi-out for self-made media ... kills >50% of the potential of the hdmi-out in my opinion.
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I agree, but as it stands, I'm still going to get the phone and hoping out hope for root, although this link (http://www.mydroidworld.com/forums/...-locked-down-let-me-tell-you-what-i-know.html) has me worried about that too.
Mikerrrrrrrr said:
I agree, but as it stands, I'm still going to get the phone and hoping out hope for root, although this link (http://www.mydroidworld.com/forums/...-locked-down-let-me-tell-you-what-i-know.html) has me worried about that too.
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i hope the best for you mate. maybe it's not that bad and in 2 weeks we are laughing about motorola because some 14 years old hacker has already torn the bootloader apart
I am officially passing on the x droid2 and whatever else Motorola decides to release sorry but I would rather have an open galaxy s than a locked down droidx. IPhone like ui can be changed with a launcher. But their isn't much hope for a double locked bootloader
whoops... has root
Am I wrong to say that the Milestone is still stuck at the OS ver. that it was sold with? And if so, I hear that 2.2 is coming to the X by the end of the summer. I'm sure and exploit can be found in the update process, or hope so.
I'm going to switch to this, simply because I believe that the devs WILL find a way to get around this problem. This is XDA we're talking about, along with a bunch of other communities dedicated to this stuff. Someone will find a way to pull it off, it's just a matter of time. But I plan on having this phone for at least a year, so I have the patience for it.
jodue said:
while i think it's a good thing that motorola supports their older devices with updates (at least they do with the droid) my point is/was that a open device enables the community to push the software further ahead. for instance: atm. i still have a htc magic. i just installed cm6 running froyo about a week ago. my device is running better and faster than ever. this would not be possible with a locked bootloader. i would be at the mercy of htc to supply me with an update "sometime in the future", quite frustrating ...
i just don't understand their reasons for this! if it's all just about warranty they could implement a "root and unlock" feature in the settings which would void your warranty e.g. by sending a request to a moto-server or something similar.
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i think you explained 2 reasons for the lock down.
1 is warranty issues
2 is that motorolla can control the life of their product. if after 2 years they give updating the software then you'll be left in the dust and forced to upgrade if want new features.
it's like dlc for games. what used to be free by modding communities has now become a way to squeeze more money out of gamers.
I also agree with you on point 2. This phone is pretty powerful even for me. I consider myself a power user but dont really see how I need a faster phone that this.
This phone, If completely hacked, can have a very long lifespan.
this takes one moto dev
to be on the modder's side.
All this takes is one dev to mess with an official moto update, and this will be tossed due the massive amount of phones that are bricked.
total BS. Knowing Verizon, and why they were late jump on the android bandwagon(because they couldn't "control" an open source opertaing system), this probably came from Verizon pushing Moto to do this. Moto is so desperate to corner the market(unlike HTC) with Verizon, they said yes'maam. Sure no problem you are giving ungodly sums of money why cant we "scratch" your back.
bull****
Let's say that we DON'T unlock this phone.... Would anyone be surprised to see Motorola keep up to day within months of releases in the future???
I see people mentioning the reasoning for it being locked it to control the life of the device.... But seeing how powerful this is and how it is you could say Moto's Flagship model, wouldn't it be int their best interest to keep their customers happy????
Or does everything sell and do you really think they will fall behind on updates...??
Seriously if you really hate the device being locked this much work on an email. I will be shooting an email over to Motorola and Verizon Wireless Customer Support. I can post the email that I am sending on here if you guys want, when I finish typing it.
As for the device being locked it is extremely sad, but many hardware developers are starting to do this. The thinking is that the more they can control what the user does the better the end experience is. That is hardly the truth so just keep cracking the devices so that they get the message we want our own control on the device.
Other than that good luck to all the dev crews out there working to crack the device.
i second the email plan. if enough people fight for an open device, motorola will listen...
12yan said:
i second the email plan. if enough people fight for an open device, motorola will listen...
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Nope. Every single Droid and Droid X user could email Motorola and they wouldn't care unless it affected sales. The bottom line speaks the loudest. Hell, more than that, it's the ONLY line that speaks
Since a new thread seams to pop up every day asking for ETA's I suppose we can have a thread specifically discussing what we ACTUALLY know. Here is what "I" know at the moment.
GPS Fix
Currently there is a leaked firmware (see development forum) that looks like it improves the GPS functionality nicely. This has a build date of Sept 7th so it is fairly new. Due to certain issues, this appears to be a beta still. However, it does have the TMO apps on it so it is further along than a pre-carrier build. Given a beta cycle of a couple of weeks, if this goes out as an OTA, it would look to be at the end of the month at best.
It has been reported in another thread that TMO will start rolling out a GPS/Lag fix on Sept 20th. This is most likely based on, or is, the leaked ROM that you can find in the dev section. So far, reports on the GPS fix are "mostly" positive.
Froyo (Android 2.2.)
There have been no leaked ROMs for the Vibrant yet although there is for international versions. Samsung_mobile on twitter said Froyo at the end of September. Given the information in the previous section, it seems an interim build may be coming to TMO first, before a Froyo is pushed out. This one though is a complete unknown besides from that twitter post.
It is currently expected that Samsung will release a Froyo build TO CARRIERS on Sept 23rd. We are not likely to see a Froyo update for at least 45 days after that if not longer depending on how long it takes TMO to "wiz it up"
GPS is working very nicely for me on that new rom with no issues.
I was locking onto 6 birds yesterday. All stock. WHATUP NOW
Still take some froyo though haaa
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
While I appreciate that the leaked ROM may be working for you, a lot of people dont want to mess with ROMs and are more interested in an official update. Although you can install that ROM today, we have no actual date of an official release.
KerryG said:
While I appreciate that the leaked ROM may be working for you, a lot of people dont want to mess with ROMs and are more interested in an official update. Although you can install that ROM today, we have no actual date of an official release.
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Yeah, if we are lucky, we may get it by the time Google releases Android 3.0 in October....
I am sooo disappointed that every Android manufacturer locks down their product so tight, that without their cooperation, the phones are simply not upgradable to the new OS versions. In a way it's worse than dealing with the iPhone
Wake up dude. It has nothing to do with that and EVERYTHING to do with testing and finishing drivers, UI, etc. People complain about a buggy release then demand updates right away. Its not going to happen.
couped said:
Wake up dude. It has nothing to do with that and EVERYTHING to do with testing and finishing drivers, UI, etc. People complain about a buggy release then demand updates right away. Its not going to happen.
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Nope.
Samsung can test the OS in advance, so they can get their drivers ready for launch. Both HTC and Moto did it, and Moto is hardly the most responsive company out there.
And the UI, it's crap, IMO. But if Samsung thinks TouchWiz is so great and important, then spin it off and make it available in Market, when ready.
There is really no good excuse for the delay. Samsung is just not dedicating the resources they need to.
MacGuy2006 said:
Nope.
Samsung can test the OS in advance, so they can get their drivers ready for launch. Both HTC and Moto did it, and Moto is hardly the most responsive company out there.
And the UI, it's crap, IMO. But if Samsung thinks TouchWiz is so great and important, then spin it off and make it available in Market, when ready.
There is really no good excuse for the delay. Samsung is just not dedicating the resources they need to.
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are you serious?
I think you need a new hobby...
There is really no good excuse for the delay.
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Obviously someone that hasn't been in the software development field.
Amen.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
In T-mobile/Samsung's defense...
When the first update for the G1 came out, it released in the UK before it hit the U.S.
Turns out that there was some kind of security bug in it, and they actually had to stop offering the update.
The testing aspect is why these updates take so long. It takes longer to test (and fix minor issues) than to correct the main problem.
What it boils down to is that no one really knows these devices in and out. You have cameras from one company, radios from another company, GPS chipsets from a third company, processors from a 4th, etc... and on top of it all your OS is written by a company that is very new to the electronics business.
The problem is the pace of technology.... sure you could pay 2 or 3 geniuses $100,000 a year for 2 years to learn every idiosyncrasy of ONE of your devices... but does that make sense when you have 2 or 3 new models going to market in 6 months?
Apple is probably the best suited company to have a team of experts who know their ONE device in and out... and even they screw it up (proximity sensor, antenna debacle).
KerryG said:
Obviously someone that hasn't been in the software development field.
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Actually, part of what I do is pay people to do software development.
Again, if this was a priority for Samsung, we would have 2.2 now. They have control over more hardware in the Galaxy than most other phone manufacturers.
Maybe old news by now, but Androidspin is reporting Froyo for the international version with a Sept 23 release date.
noob user, can't post links. visit android spin for the story.
MacGuy2006 said:
Actually, part of what I do is pay people to do software development.
Again, if this was a priority for Samsung, we would have 2.2 now. They have control over more hardware in the Galaxy than most other phone manufacturers.
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Ill agree with this, if Samsungs priority was 2.2 it would have been done by now, easily. I mean 2.2 has been out since may. Its 4 months later, they could roll it out now if it had been properly and timely worked on.
It's not like all Samsung makes are phones.
....
I'm still waiting for the HTC TV, HTC Washer and Dryer, maybe a Nokia Refrigerator....
When the other Companies start making all of this stuff, then u can compare
MacGuy2006 said:
Actually, part of what I do is pay people to do software development.
Again, if this was a priority for Samsung, we would have 2.2 now. They have control over more hardware in the Galaxy than most other phone manufacturers.
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So... your the accountant? Or someone who contracts with vendors to do development for the company you work for? Supply the funding?
Sorry, not a ringing endorsement for understanding the development cycle without more details.
I'm guessing you meant to say, "if this was a TOP priority for Samsung, we would have 2.2 for now".
I'm guessing it's not, for a variety of business reasons. I'm sure it is in the mix with a lot of other efforts.
mjpacheco said:
So... your the accountant? Or someone who contracts with vendors to do development for the company you work for? Supply the funding?
Sorry, not a ringing endorsement for understanding the development cycle without more details.
I'm guessing you meant to say, "if this was a TOP priority for Samsung, we would have 2.2 for now".
I'm guessing it's not, for a variety of business reasons. I'm sure it is in the mix with a lot of other efforts.
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Well, I do a bit of most of the above.
So, you are a fanboy?
If HTC and Moto could do it, so could have Samsung. Especially since the Galaxy S is supposed to be their weapon with which to take over the smart phone market.... And since they have more control over key components than their rivals.
Anyway, what's your point? That writing drivers is so tough it takes years?
Or that we should not expect much from Samsung products, because they are a diversified company and can't focus on any particular product?
MacGuy2006 said:
Actually, part of what I do is pay people to do software development.
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I pay 400 people to do software development, and I agree with the other guy.
MacGuy2006 said:
No, I run a company.
So, you are a fanboy?
If HTC and Moto could do it, so could have Samsung. Especially since the Galaxy S is supposed to be their weapon with which to take over the smart phone market.... And since they have more control over key components than their rivals.
Anyway, what's your point? That writing drivers takes years?
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Ha, no. I'm OS and hardware agnostic across all platforms.
My point is realistic expectations. If the GPS update was top priority for Samsung and/or easy to fix (it very well may not have been), it would be done.
As the owner of a company, you know more than anybody the tradeoff's that need to be made when making business decisions. It easy to complain when you are individually impacted about the priority of some specific piece of work, but for Samsung you know they made concious decisions about release scheduling.
Given recent news, it looks like the GPS/hardware fix is being release seperately from 2.2. I'm a little dissapointed in this, it's seems likely that means we will not get the 2.2 fix before the end of September. Ideally they would be rolled together if 2.2 was close... unless the fix just took so long the release timeframes have been squeezed together. And all assuming the GPS fix is merged with 2.2.
Anyway, I'm rambling, no way to know unless we sit in on Samsung development meetings and what challenges they have had with the 2.2 release.
My 'guess' is Samsung had marketing dates to meet with the original OS and released the product before everything was baked in. There are lots of oddities and bugs in the phone I have not seen in other platforms (like HTC), and these are hopefully fixed and may explain the extra time.
I agree with you re: the UI. For those that care, and it likely the more technically savy are the ones that care, it's easy to change... one of the compelling things about any android device.
The Tab is nearly ready to launch. I'm sure it has been tested with 2.2 for a number of weeks, if not months. The have the drivers ready. They are likely devoting tine and energy to hardware releases at this time. It would be nice if they would release vanilla android then the other stuff in the market. They already do that for the samsung home and car apps.
It is really frustrating that these companies cripple good devices with bloatware and make you root to uninstall it. Gingerbread will be nice because all of these extras will be apps. Which is how it should have been from day one.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Dunno if you guys have seen this. I didn't notice because I usually only hang around here but it just got posted to reddit so I saw it.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=913045
If true, it would definitely explain a lot of things. It does make me dislike Samsung, but hopefully the carriers can strong-arm Samsung into doing what everyone else is doing.
Personally, I bought this phone because it was either this or the Droid X, and the difference was that while the DX might have Froyo now, the odds of Motorola putting Gingerbread on it are less than 100%, and the odds of it getting anything after that are even lower, and with the locked bootloader you can't do anything about it. With the Fascinate, at least we can look forward to community built ROMs for some time into the future, definitely past what Samsung is willing to do (I figure they're never going to even consider putting Gingerbread on the Fascinate what with the LTE phones coming out soon, and SAMOLED+ and all that). People should probably avoid Samsung unless they specifically want the nice hardware and easy hacking, in which case it seems like Samsung is the most lax with security so they're the best choice for hacking.
Hmm, very enlightening, of it's true of course. Sounds entirely plausible though. Oh well, I really don't care anymore, not with kaos and friends on the job.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
This is what we all expected.
But the question is... Why was it released with Eclair when Froyo was released before this phone was released.
wasn't the reason it was released with eclair because of the 1.6 ril or whatever? from what i read, the ril would barely work with eclair and no way for it to work with froyo.
my understanding is that a large part of the magic that kaos is doing was to build a functional ril.
They arent building a new ril. They are hacking android around the current crap ril Samsung gave us.
Don't buy it.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
upsidedownaaron said:
wasn't the reason it was released with eclair because of the 1.6 ril or whatever? from what i read, the ril would barely work with eclair and no way for it to work with froyo.
my understanding is that a large part of the magic that kaos is doing was to build a functional ril.
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Click to collapse
That's what jt's been doing, and he ended up just hacking the current Samsung RIL to work. And if you follow his twitter, he said that the RIL from Eclair, Froyo, and Gingerbread on the Android side didn't change much which is why they're jumping straight to Gingerbread instead of wasting time with Eclair.
upsidedownaaron said:
wasn't the reason it was released with eclair because of the 1.6 ril or whatever? from what i read, the ril would barely work with eclair and no way for it to work with froyo.
my understanding is that a large part of the magic that kaos is doing was to build a functional ril.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Um, wow, what have you been reading? First off, our phone came with 2.1, not 1.6, so I'm not sure where you got that number from.
Secondly, the reason that we (not Samsung) could not build a ROM not based on the stock OEM ROM was because the source code for the RIL that Samsung provided for the Fascinate was bad code, which made it extremely difficult to create a working RIL what will work with a custom OS. However, jt1134 and punk.kaos were able to reverse engineer the bad code into working code, in order to proceed with ROM building.
This has nothing to do with Samsung themselves though. Samsung built the RIL to begin with, so they most certainly can (and have) created RIL code that works with Froyo, quite a long time ago in fact. They released the Galaxy S line with Eclair because that was likely the newest version available when they began developing the OS for those phones. In order to convert the OS to Froyo to launch it on the phone, they would have had to significantly delay the launch, which was not an option. This is likely why so many phones are released with outdated versions of Android. And I would like to point out that if they just put Google's code on there and didn't insist in polluting it with their own proprietary junk, it wouldn't take so long to release in the first place, and wouldn't be so difficult to upgrade later.
Getting back on topic, I figured that the problem with getting these updates really all comes down to money. People have always had to pay for OS upgrades for PCs, but due to Android and iOS, have now come to expect to receive these updates for free. The problem is, somebody has to develop an upgrade process, and test the heck out of it, and those developers have to get paid. So the OEM pays them, and then naturally tries to pass the cost along to the carrier, because they don't want to work for free. The carrier also doesn't want to pay for the upgrade, but also knows they can't get away with charging their customers for it without significant backlash, so they basically just sit there and hope the problem eventually goes away, or that the OEM will finally back down and release the update for free, which is what's been described as our current situation.
If this is really such a big problem, they could be taking steps to not end up in this situation, such as figuring the cost of these upgrades into the price of the phones and/or rate plans. However, the carriers also have added incentive to not push for the upgrades, because that effectively extends the life of the handset, and they want you to keep buying new hardware all the time, since they make money from selling hardware, and lose money on the free upgrades.
In the end, it's all about money. Thankfully we have such a great community of developers here on XDA that are willing to go the extra mile to not only get us our upgrades, but also add cool features and boost the performance way beyond what the manufacturer gave us. Thanks to that, our hardware's lifetime is determined not by when a carrier or OEM pulls support, but rather by when the devices physically die or break, or the hardware becomes too outdated for the tasks we wish to perform. And this way, through donations, we can pay our developers for good upgrades, not our carrier for crappy, bloated ones.
Im not saying its true but the most legitimate explanation for all this bull**** I have actually heard in a while. So for what its worth Im not going to shoot that down. Possibly true at this point.
Sent from my fascination station using XDA App
ivorycruncher said:
Um, wow, what have you been reading? First off, our phone came with 2.1, not 1.6, so I'm not sure where you got that number from.
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Mrbirdman said it himself, actually. (1.5, but close enough).
http://twitter.com/#!/_mrbirdman_/status/3002051533479936
Anyway, I don't know whether to believe this but it explains why no US carriers have Froyo yet. It's kind of frustrating that Verizon is the only carrier that hasn't even had a leaked Froyo build it seems. Damn ingrates spoiling leaks for the rest of us.
Ah, I see. Thanks for the link. I admit that tweet came before I followed him on twitter, so I hadn't seen that. I can see how that would complicate matters though.
This is the last farkin' time I ever buy a Samsung phone. Shame on me for believing their lies when they said they'd support it.
If that user is really violating an NDA, he's already fired, and the XDA admins would be hearing from lawyers demanding they remove the thread.
Sounds like it's just more trumped up bull**** designed to stir up the masses. Who knows really, but all I know is I wasn't stupid enough to purchase a phone based on future "promises."
Jake_Mongoose said:
This is the last farkin' time I ever buy a Samsung phone. Shame on me for believing their lies when they said they'd support it.
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You might wanna rethink that. Why, you ask? Because Samsung puts out some of the best hardware available, especially the screens, and we always have devs that can hack up the code to make it better than it ever would have been with a stock ROM. HTC isn't too bad, though the issue with rooting the G2 is certainly raising some eyebrows, but if you were thinking about Motorola, have fun with your locked bootloader and other fun tricks that attempt to squash community development. Aside from lousy source code, Samsung phones are the easiest to root and customize due to the unlocked bootloader. You can basically just flash anything you want with ODIN, no problem.
It is not necessarily the case in the future because Tab reportedly has locked boot loader. This said people already found workaround, but who knows?..
That is true. Nobody knows what the future holds. In any case, if you have no problem loading custom software from XDA devs on your phone, then OEM software support should not even be on the list of requirements when buying a phone. I now make my phone purchasing decisions purely based on hardware specs and quality. If it's a quality piece of hardware with the features I want, on my carrier of choice (Verizon), I will buy it, regardless of manufacturer or UI. Warranties and insurance work the same no matter who makes it, and software updates come from XDA, so nothing else really matters. But then again, that's just my opinion.
ivorycruncher said:
That is true. Nobody knows what the future holds. In any case, if you have no problem loading custom software from XDA devs on your phone, then OEM software support should not even be on the list of requirements when buying a phone. I now make my phone purchasing decisions purely based on hardware specs and quality. If it's a quality piece of hardware with the features I want, on my carrier of choice (Verizon), I will buy it, regardless of manufacturer or UI. Warranties and insurance work the same no matter who makes it, and software updates come from XDA, so nothing else really matters. But then again, that's just my opinion.
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Yup, this is how I've decided to make phone decisions from now on as well. As long as the phone's software can be replaced by XDA, I don't care too much about the manufacturer's updates.
J Shed said:
If that user is really violating an NDA, he's already fired, and the XDA admins would be hearing from lawyers demanding they remove the thread.
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It is easier to hide posting on a forum than it is sending a tip into an online news outlet, at least in general. Also, by posting it in a forum, it is entirely likely that it will be up for longer than it would be if posted at say, Engadget, because it takes longer for news to show up in major outlets if posted in a forum first as opposed to a news site. If it were posted at Engadget or another tech blog, they are likely watched over very closely for potential NDA breaches, etc. I doubt Samsung looks are random forums/subforums/threads nearly as close.
IF it were $$ couldn't we as users pay like $20 for Froyo...
x 3 million phones = more than enough to pay for DEV
I don't buy it.
Why?
Because these companies work off of contracts. Verizon would know exactly what they were getting into before signing. If Samsung decides to breach said contract, fine, let Verizon sue the hell out of them. Lastly, Verizon would not have sold or marketed docks that rely on 2.2, if they had no intention of releasing it.
Actually one more thing. If US Carriers were refusing, Samsung would halt development. We are seeing new leaks for the other US models all the time, and Verizon is still being worked on (but not leaked).
This is a case of where 2+2=5=false.
if yes so officially from motorola or by a rom?
It is my understanding that Gingerbread would require a change in kernal that can't be done due to it's locked bootloader. Though I could be wrong on that. As for a OTA update, I've read several lists that list the Droid 2 as a "possible" upgrade. In otherwords, it can happen, but I wouldnt hold my breath.
Yeah, Moto and Verizon have kept silent about what phones are getting upgrades. It would be nice if they would just put out a list, even if they don't give out dates.
I have been told by a VZW insider to not count on it. Note however this same source told me the Eris was dead, and just last week the Eris received an OTA update to fix things that needed to be fixed.
I only wished my Motorola insiders would tell me something, but they won't say a darn word, and they are friends, good friends.
I would imagine it's more of a decision of Moto than Verizon. I don't really see Verizon not releasing an upgrade for a phone that Motorola released. Thus I would pry more at the Moto guys than the Verizon guy, cause they'd likely just be guessing at what Moto will do.
In my personal opinion I really dnt think it matters if we get GB since we already have a lot of stuff better than the blur GB such as gummyjar, liberty! I mean if we do get it, were still going to bootstrap it and change the rom, well atleast I will lol
Sent from my DROID2 using XDA App
I'm almost positive we will get gingerbread. It would be pretty messed up for a high end device to never get one upgrade. Remember the D2 launched with froyo.
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Very true.
I say if we don't get timely upgrades to keep our phones functional, we launch a class action lawsuit against Motorola.
Well the only thing about that is
A. Our phones are functional even without further updates
and
B. As far as I'm aware, there was nothing in the contracts we sign saying they HAVE to update our phones...
So from a legal standpoint, I doubt you could even get a class action lawsuit far.
(I realize you were probably joking, but this is true)
From what I've read, it looks like we could get Gingerbread on our own, because it doesn't require a new kernel.
Sent from my DROID2 using XDA Premium App
OMG, why all wants new and new version of Android? GB totally suck, nothing new, only new graphic and ctrl+c and ctrl+v ... I don't like gingerbread almost. Its just only number, nothing more
Actually, I'm quite serious. If they hold us by contract to a single phone for two years, it is their responsibility to keep it updated with patches.
Rooted Droid 2 running Froyo 2.2 with the 2.3.20 update
Actually, unless it is something totally crippling, then once they've sold you the phone they don't have to anything. Because unless it is something crippling then there can be no argument made for usability, and as long as the phone is usable you would have no case.
-Gilgamesh- said:
Actually, unless it is something totally crippling, then once they've sold you the phone they don't have to anything. Because unless it is something crippling then there can be no argument made for usability, and as long as the phone is usable you would have no case.
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Exactly. They are not held by the contract you signed to update the android operating system AT ALL. Patches are one thing, as long as they are critical to the functionality of your phone. Seeing as how the current 2.3.20 is working fine with no major problems, they have no obligation to update android.
Google could require manufacturers to make any patches they put out available.
2.3.20 has problems, such as the phone sometime rebooting itself or not coming out of sleep mode when the power button is pressed. Those are issues that Motorola is supposed to address and fix. I paid for a working phone, not a problem.
silverfang77 said:
Google could require manufacturers to make any patches they put out available.
2.3.20 has problems, such as the phone sometime rebooting itself or not coming out of sleep mode when the power button is pressed. Those are issues that Motorola is supposed to address and fix. I paid for a working phone, not a problem.
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I see your point. However, 2.3 isn't a patch, its a complete system upgrade. Besides, forcing phone makers to push out EVERY udpate google puts out would be very expensive for the makers, and deter them from making further android phones.
I do think Moto should fix problems like those with maintenance releases, but that still does not obligate them to update them to 2.3
Don't get me wrong, I would love to have 2.3 on my d2, but I'm not holding my breath.
Sorry to jump in but what about the security issues present in the phone? They put people in harms way by not attempting to patch phones.You could make a case that the the security issues were unknown at the time you signed the contract making it invalid. I understand your point but the security factor is why just saying the phone works its not acceptable..at this time there is nothing a person can do to patch these exploits and we have the text message bug that could ruin your life..Its an interesting situation that needs too be fixed.please correct me if I am missing something here.
Sent from my DROID2 using Tapatalk
I actually love how people keep bringing up the contract. You have your service with Verizon, whom is also who sold you the phone, thus your contact is with Verizon, not Moto. Thus, your contract has not thing one to do with Moto, thus they could care less what your contract says. And because Moto is the one responsible with issuing the updates, not Verizon, Your contract doesn't relate in any way to any type of updates.
If you want class action, it should be against Motorola for their eFuse malware. This is the real reason we have no gingerbread on our phones. Custom ROMs would already be here which would be good enough for everybody but the most incompetent non-techies too afraid to even root.
I'd also argue that Motorola is fraudulauntly branding these devices as android. Every other manufacturer that sells android devices does not cripple them. I even did a little bit of research before I purchased my device and saw nobody warning about this. I figured "hey, android is open source, these are the most popular devices, what could go wrong?"
Absurd.
Just got done reading a petition about motorola's locked bootloader.
While sifting through the comments people made, pleading for motorola to remove their locks. I could only think of how so many members ridicule samsung. does everyone realize that they (samsung) gave us a great phone? That its almost unbrickable.. Sure froyo took a long time, but they admitted publicly that getting froyo out was a disaster and that they will take measures to make sure it won't happen again. And they even attempted to reach out to the community through samsungjohn.. even if it was just an attempt to calm the community, it shows samsung supports the community.. Or at the very least that they care about what we think and say.. Samsung could be a lot more like motorola, and completely overlook the needs and desires of the small percentage of users that our communities consist of.
my next phone will be a sgs2
Sent from my Rocking dj05, themed superdark w/o swype mod, voodoo 5, with custom boot and shutdown.. With premium xda app.
Yea. With htc following Motorola's path of locking down the bootloader, seems like samsung is one of the last to be developer friendly.
Sent from my SCH-I500
neh4pres said:
my next phone will be a sgs2
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... unless they lock that too.
Not to many people realize how special this phone will be when we can overclock to 1.6ghz, that was mention in engadget i think. But this phone rocks with root and superclean. But the majority of people dont really take the time to explore android phones and all they offer. For example businessmen, my father who is in the insurance business used his droid x for almost everything. My brother rooted it and set up everything in a much more user friendly way. But just when everyone gets upset about no froyo (official) for fascinate, they forget the beauty of android, and thats its able to be edited by developers and that its open source. We arent supposed to have froyo yet most likely every fascinate owner on this forum has froyo.
sfournie said:
But just when everyone gets upset about no froyo (official) for fascinate, they forget the beauty of android, and thats its able to be edited by developers and that its open source. We arent supposed to have froyo yet most likely every fascinate owner on this forum has froyo.
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Not to nitpick... but I'd like to just add a little bit of an aside here. There has been no official release of Froyo, which means that according to Samsung and Verizon, we shouldn't have it. (of course, some one will speak up and say "leaked builds are just a sneaky way that samsung gets free public beta testing." To that I say "maybe. But I doubt it.")
Not only that, but most of the cool mods in the dev/themes section are done to precompiled files that have been decompiled, modded, then recompiled, which takes massive amounts of time, and is a dirty process that leaves behind dead code and mismatched signatures. People are jumping through massive hoops to do something because we don't have the source code to edit it directly. Saying that the stock ROM is open, is like saying a jailbroken iPhone is open. It's only "open" because people have poured countless hours working around the restrictions of an already compiled system, using tools that took countless hours to make.
Both of these issues are actually a major gray area of the law, and if a pesky legal team got bored, it's hard to tell what kind of trouble they might be able to stir up (especially when the judicial system is all about $$).
Even after we do get the source code (which we still don't have), there are still lots of binary "blobs" of data that are already compiled, reducing the amount of control we actually have over the hardware devices and proprietary elements of the stock rom.
So Android is mostly open source, but Samsung is only as open as it wants to be. Their delay in releasing the source, bad coding, and use of proprietary code still sets them fairly in the realm of developer unfriendly. They just aren't as bad as some of the others.
GizmoDroid said:
Not to nitpick... but I'd like to just add a little bit of an aside here. There has been no official release of Froyo, which means that according to Samsung and Verizon, we shouldn't have it.
Both of these issues are actually a major gray area of the law, and if a pesky legal team got bored, it's hard to tell what kind of trouble they might be able to stir up (especially when the judicial system is all about $$).
So Android is mostly open source, but Samsung is only as open as it wants to be. Their delay in releasing the source, bad coding, and use of proprietary code still sets them fairly in the realm of developer unfriendly. They just aren't as bad as some of the others.
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I am forever grateful for the dev teams hours spent on this phone to give us something that we shouldnt have. And I agree, I think its all about the money for the phone manufacturers. The nice thing about android is that you dont pay to upgrade, but thats also their downfall because whats in it for samsung if they work hard and release something that is stable for our phones. Loyal customers which is true and a big part of their business. But for the most part, their client base is so huge, our whining doesnt even put a dent in there sales. Furthermore, Verizon doesn't care about releasing the official froyo update because they have you in a 2 year contract. And as bad as the the wait has been to get froyo, I would never switch carriers because ATT is worse IMO, but who knows now that they bought T-Mobile.
neh4pres said:
my next phone will be a sgs2
Sent from my Rocking dj05, themed superdark w/o swype mod, voodoo 5, with custom boot and shutdown.. With premium xda app.
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I've been debating getting a Bionic but in thinking more and more about it I have to agree with you. my next phone will be the Sgs2. I absolutely love my sgs even if we don't have an official froyo build, the great devs we have have me rocking a super clean voodoo that blows all my friends various moto, htc, etc devices out of the water.
Do I wish verizon and samsung pushed an official froyo build? Sure
will that lack of support stop me from getting my hands on the sgs2? Hell no.
Dalamar1320 said:
Do I wish verizon and samsung pushed an official froyo build? Sure
will that lack of support stop me from getting my hands on the sgs2? Hell no.
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+1 I agree totally!!
Pretty sure that I'm going for the sgs2 as well. Bottom line: the Fascinate has been the best smart phone I've ever owned (even as only eclair). I enjoy all the flashing of Roms and Kernels too. Its kinda made owning the phone worth it. In other words, not having official release but trying out these leaks is great fun! I'm not nearly as bent out of shape as some others are about the lack of support by Samsung/Verizon. Sure, it would be nice if they were better about software releases but I ain't losing any sleep over it.
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SOTK said:
Pretty sure that I'm going for the sgs2 as well. Bottom line: the Fascinate has been the best smart phone I've ever owned (even as only eclair). I enjoy all the flashing of Roms and Kernels too. Its kinda made owning the phone worth it. In other words, not having official release but trying out these leaks is great fun! I'm not nearly as bent out of shape as some others are about the lack of support by Samsung/Verizon. Sure, it would be nice if they were better about software releases but I ain't losing any sleep over it.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk
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Thats cool but allegedly thats going to have a signed bootloader too.
Used my fascinating voodoo powers